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Dr_Evil Posted on 24/11/2008 08:50
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Will save you 40p on a £20 item.

What a winner this man is!

That will really help the economy, its definitely got me thinking about buying things again.

AlanMoores_wobblyhead Posted on 24/11/2008 09:08
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

My business will save £6000 per year though which will offset the huge increase in energy costs... aimed more at small business I think.

colin21 Posted on 24/11/2008 09:12
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

I think it is a positive move, although I am not sure it is as effective as actually giving it in direct tax cuts, I would have preferred it that way.

Also the 45% proposed rate on earners above 150K is a good move. I live in Germany and pay above that on most of my income, I whinge like hell about it but I do think it is the right thing to do. I would also do a windfall tax on the Oil and energy firms if they have made excessive profits in the last 12 months.

Manco_Joe Posted on 24/11/2008 09:13
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Does this mean the price of a penny chew will go up?

MoggasDog Posted on 24/11/2008 09:15
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

shame that they think of a way of taxing the knackers off the bankers who started all this bollox.
it really winds up that they banks took huge private 'profits' but have had to nationalise their debts. its F****g obscene.

Rod100 Posted on 24/11/2008 09:15
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

oil and energy firms want shooting. just becuase oil went up the gas companies decided they want some of that and doubled their prices.

the banks should be forced to lend money at a lower rate as it is the publics money that bailed them out.

borotmt Posted on 24/11/2008 09:16
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Burtons, Boynton Rd 1972, retail quote of the decade
"how much are ye penny chews mister?"

Dr_Evil Posted on 24/11/2008 09:19
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Brown has stated he needs to get the consumer spending again, and a 2.5% VAT cut will do it apparently.

It wont, and its soft.

Rod100 Posted on 24/11/2008 09:21
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

i would have thought actual tax cuts and an increase in take home pay wouldget more disposbale income and more money to spend?

im no economist mind so im sure there's a good reason for him not to have done so.

mattrich Posted on 24/11/2008 09:24
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Didn't labour say they wouldn't increase income tax in their manifesto before the last election? If so, its a bit naughty to be going back on that, unless they have realised they are going to lose the next election and have given up.

jeff_potato Posted on 24/11/2008 09:52
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

2.5% would be a lot in the long run. Even though it's the lack of any long-term vision which has seen so many people sign away houses to the banks and indeed, some muppets give out those mortgages in the first place.

Bri_Marwood Posted on 24/11/2008 09:55
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Spending is about confidence, if the rate of VAT was cut to 10% it wouldn't prompt people to spend again due to much uncertainty about jobs, pay etc etc.

PinkPonce Posted on 24/11/2008 10:15
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Evil, Do you only spend £20 a month?

a 2.5% VAT cut is huge in my opinion - Especially at this time of year with Xmas approaching.

Think about the people who will spend £100 a week on food shopping. They will save £2.13 a week.

Add into this petrol costs (which include VAT) and you're talking another 2p a litre saving. Straight away with just those 2 options you could be talking as much as £20 a month. Thats not mentioning everything else the consumer spends its money on. You probably wont see the difference if your not conscious of your spending but for those families on a tight budget they will certainly see the savings come the end of the month.

PS, it will save you 43p on £20.

Rod100 Posted on 24/11/2008 10:17
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

i'd rather there be a cut in income tax therefore i will see the benefit more readily.

Capybara Posted on 24/11/2008 10:18
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

I make it more like 42.5p. Or 8/6d.

PinkPonce Posted on 24/11/2008 10:22
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Capy, I didn't realise they were bringing back the half penny. My apologies.

moxxey Posted on 24/11/2008 10:36
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

It won't 'save' anything as most retailers won't pass on the discount to customers.

Why? As the pound is so weak against the dollar and the Euro, and as most of our products are imported, most retailers are struggling to incorporate the reduction in margins. They're not going to simply reduce everything by 2.5%, but will use that extra 2.5% to make a better margin on their products.

moxxey Posted on 24/11/2008 10:36
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

"Think about the people who will spend £100 a week on food shopping."

I didn't think there was VAT on food?

Dr_Evil Posted on 24/11/2008 10:41
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

I probably spend on average about £100 a month on non essential items.

PinkPonce Posted on 24/11/2008 10:41
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Moxxey, if your weekly food shop consists solely of Cake, then you won't see the savings unfortunately.

Everything else is taxed.

HEDZUP Posted on 24/11/2008 10:52
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Wait until 2 years time when all this borrowing has to be paid for . Basic income tax 25%?

Dibzzz Posted on 24/11/2008 10:53
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

People will just save it, the bloke's an idiot who blames the USA for everything.

Bandy Posted on 24/11/2008 10:57
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

why not cut it by 17.5% and get shot of the F***ing thing. That'll help spending

HEDZUP Posted on 24/11/2008 11:01
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Under Brussels rules Bandy,VAT minimum cannot go below 15%.
EU Rules OK.

Get_your_rat_out Posted on 24/11/2008 11:04
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

labour are really P***ing me off, i F***ing hate that alistar darling gadge, he doesnt have a clue what he's doing, how the F*** does he have different coloured eye brows to his hair ffs

Bri_Marwood Posted on 24/11/2008 11:06
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

So many people are P***ed off with Labour yet when it comes to the election all you working class heroes will vote for them again because you simply cannot put a tick against Conservative as it goes against tradition, your parents would be disappointed, Maggie took my milk away uff uff uff uff.

There is no helping you lower classes.

Buddy Posted on 24/11/2008 11:08
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Rod - "i would have thought actual tax cuts and an increase in take home pay wouldget more disposbale income and more money to spend?"

The idea is that if you just give people more cash they will simply keep it in the bank (until the bank goes belly-up, at least), so the tax cuts have to be targeted at sales rather than income.

Using Ponce's figures, if 10m households spend an extra £2 a week each for a year, that's over £1bn extra "consumer spending".

Get_your_rat_out Posted on 24/11/2008 11:08
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

only reason i wont vote conservative is because they dont seem any better than labour are.

get the lib dems in

Decent_Left Posted on 24/11/2008 11:12
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Mattrich - Labour did state in the last manifesto they would not raise income tax. The leak on what he might announce today is that the 45% rate will take eefect after the next election, so Labour are announcing what will be in the next manifesto.


Get_your_rat_out Posted on 24/11/2008 11:13
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

the 45% tax rate on people over £100,000 is something that should of been done a long time ago

Bandy Posted on 24/11/2008 11:13
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

"So many people are P***ed off with Labour yet when it comes to the election all you working class heroes will vote for them again because you simply cannot put a tick against Conservative as it goes against tradition, your parents would be disappointed, Maggie took my milk away uff uff uff uff.

There is no helping you lower classes."

QUOTE OF THE DAY

rivals_oldschool Posted on 24/11/2008 11:16
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

The unemployed can sigh in relief that their Xmas presents will be 2% cheaper.

Hooorah.

moxxey Posted on 24/11/2008 11:18
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

£100,000/year isn't a huge amount of money by 2010 when these tax increases kick in.

You lot like to go out and watch football, quite happy that many of the footballers we watch earn this in 2-3 weeks. Still, we go and watch the matches..

Life is all wrong. If you're an alcoholic hopeless mum, you can claim thousands of pounds in state benefits. If you work, and work hard, you have to work even harder to pay for these benefit 'rights'.

jam69 Posted on 24/11/2008 11:18
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

yes lets all vote for the old etonians they know how to look after the working classes

Capybara Posted on 24/11/2008 11:18
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

'... you simply cannot put a tick against Conservative as it goes against tradition ...'

Do you know how to vote, Bri?

Buddy Posted on 24/11/2008 11:21
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

It would get counted, as long as it's unambiguous.

Piggy Posted on 24/11/2008 11:24
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

I dont see it making much of a difference. I suspect that a lot of retailers wont pass it on. Will fish and chips drop in price by a few pence? Will Maccy D's knock a couple of pence off a hamburger?

Will the boro be reducing matchday tickets by 50p? Will the season ticket holders spit their tea out in fury if they do?

I've got my doubts. Except for the last one of course.

Capybara Posted on 24/11/2008 11:25
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

I know. But that's not the point.

Rod100 Posted on 24/11/2008 11:29
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

i understand that buddy. however what i meant was that if people see their net wages increase due to less taxation then surely they will have more to spend - and probably feel like spending it.

ABCD Posted on 24/11/2008 11:35
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

it'sa bribe which we will all pay for in higher taxes after the next election, if you think it is anything else you'v got yer head in the sand.

Lefty Posted on 24/11/2008 12:00
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

I've got my head in the sand as I don't think it is a 'bribe'. That it will have to be paid back is true, but if it was a bribe to get re-elected he'd do it next year. This is more of a necessity in Brown's eyes, not a bribe.

chorleyphil Posted on 24/11/2008 12:19
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

This cut is aimed at business and wholesale, not individuals.

Its a good thing as it will help company margins and workers can be retained. We will see the best saving via the petrol pump.

Moves like this are all good and not to be whinged at, as, at the end of the day, its confidence that needs building.

Labour have made mistakes sure, by letting lending go unregulated. But if you think a Tory goverment is the answer, leave NOW.


nomark Posted on 24/11/2008 12:28
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

There is no VAT on food (excluding luxury items) so PP is wrong in his comments (First time for everything).

I don't see how businesses will benefit either as they can recover the VAT (in the vast majority of cases).

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 24/11/2008 12:32
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Items of food that are exempt from the zero VAT on food.

1 Ice cream, ice lollies, frozen yogurt, water ices and similar frozen products, and prepared mixes and powders for making such products.
2 Confectionery, not including cakes or biscuits other than biscuits wholly or partly covered with chocolate or some product similar in taste and appearance.
3 Beverages chargeable with any duty of excise specifically charged on spirits, beer, wine or made-wine and preparations thereof.
4 Other beverages (including fruit juices and bottled waters) and syrups, concentrates, essences, powders, crystals or other products for the preparation of beverages.
5 Any of the following when packaged for human consumption without further preparation, namely, potato crisps, potato sticks, potato puffs, and similar products made from the potato, or from potato flour, or from potato starch, and savoury food products obtained by the swelling of cereals or cereal products; and salted or roasted nuts other than nuts in shell.
6 Pet foods, canned, packaged or prepared; packaged foods (not being pet foods) for birds other than poultry or game; and biscuits and meal for cats and dogs.
7 Goods described in items 1, 2 and 3 of the general items which are canned, bottled, packaged or prepared for useó
(a) in the domestic brewing of any beer;
(b) in the domestic making of any cider or perry;
(c) in the domestic production of any wine or made-wine.

Piggy Posted on 24/11/2008 12:33
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

The only way that I can see businesses benefiting is if those who supply to the public keep their prices the same and pocket the difference. Any businesses who deal with each other will just be collecting and passing on a smaller Vat sum.

I suspect that a lot of businesses will find the re-pricing exercise quite costly and wont get much in increased sales.

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 24/11/2008 12:34
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

"
I suspect that a lot of businesses will find the re-pricing exercise quite costly and wont get much in increased sales."


That's what I immediatley thought about, the massive cost of re-pricing the goods in store.

Perhaps they'll discount it at point of sale rather than re-pricing?

chorleyphil Posted on 24/11/2008 12:35
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Well thats cos buying goods will be cheaper, and charging for work done will be cheaper.

My son is a plasterer. He has cut his prices to the bone but is still losing out on work as some tw@t is bidding real low on jobs and putting Poles/Croats/Latvins/whoever in.

Now that is what needs to be sorted out.
You had muppets on here 6 months ago saying it was fantastic getting a cheap plumbing job done by a foreigner. Well, this is the consequence.

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 24/11/2008 12:38
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

"My son is a plasterer. He has cut his prices to the bone but is still losing out on work as some tw@t is bidding real low on jobs and putting Poles/Croats/Latvins/whoever in."

That's what happens in a capitalist economy. As long as his rival is paying the relevant taxes and NI contributions for his workers then good on him.

Piggy Posted on 24/11/2008 12:39
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Chorley, I dont really see how your son will benefit. If he charges 500 quid for a job, then adding 75 quid vat to it rather than 87.50 isnt likely to attract many extra customers.

Even less so on smaller jobs.

chorleyphil Posted on 24/11/2008 12:44
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Do you think all the Foreign workers on British construction jobs are paying Tax and NI ?

Do you also believe that they are paid a minimum wage?

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 24/11/2008 12:48
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Which is exactly why I stated "As long as his rival is paying the relevant taxes and NI contributions for his workers then good on him."

The fact is foreign workers are often prepared to work harder, longer and for less money than their British counterparts.


rivals_oldschool Posted on 24/11/2008 12:51
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Thats also going on the basis that competition is on the same ground.

Expecially when the £ was strong Poles were quite happy to work for lower wages since they got more for their money once they transferred it to Poland.

I've always been puzzled as to how your British worker could ever compete on such grounds, yet slagged off anyway as being bone idle.


mickbrown Posted on 24/11/2008 12:51
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

I remember when it was 15%.

Guess who put it up to 17.5%?


chorleyphil Posted on 24/11/2008 12:51
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Really Lizards?

Good old Tory, Mick !

Bri_Marwood Posted on 24/11/2008 12:53
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

You could do more vat calculations in your head when it was 15%

mickbrown Posted on 24/11/2008 12:55
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Anybody watch that programme the other week about polish and british builders?

Polish all the way for me I'm afraid.

mickbrown Posted on 24/11/2008 12:56
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Aye Phil and that was on the back of an election manifesto pledging tax cuts.

People have short memories.

mattrich Posted on 24/11/2008 12:57
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

The British guys can't compete with the easetern europeans, i had a polish guy working for me once and i dropped some money off at his house, he was living in a dump of a house with lots of other eastern europeans, they viewed it as a temporary arangement so they weren't bothered, Brits can't do this.

chorleyphil Posted on 24/11/2008 12:58
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

If you want to see the future of Construction in this country, then take a good look at Germany!

Loads of work going on, but hardly any German workers.
Just agency fed, on the black, semi skilled workers from the former eastern block. Living like pigs.

mickbrown Posted on 24/11/2008 12:58
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

They can - they choose not to.

I did it for 3 years at University

mickbrown Posted on 24/11/2008 12:59
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Chorleyphil - what's the difference between a Polish plasterer working over here and you going to Montreal?

Bri_Marwood Posted on 24/11/2008 13:01
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Isn't it all Geordies doing construction in Germany?

rivals_oldschool Posted on 24/11/2008 13:03
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

So live in poverty indefinitely is the answer for British workers, just so they can compete with a people whose living costs are lower?

chorleyphil Posted on 24/11/2008 13:03
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

I am going because they have a skill shortage in aerospace.
We dont have a shortage of plasterers or builders etc.

Not now any road.

edit to say. I need a special skills visa to go there too !
ie, I cant just hop on a plane.

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 24/11/2008 13:03
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

"Isn't it all Geordies doing construction in Germany?"

A few of my mates C****ney Wayne, Brummie Barry, Dennis, Oz and Neville went out there a few years ago, however they went out to Spain after that as apparently that was where the work was.

Havent seen them for years, last I knew they were putting some bridge up in Arizona.

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 24/11/2008 13:05
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

"We dont have a shortage of plasterers or builders etc."

Err we do, a shortage of DECENT ones.

Besides if we dont have a shortage of builders why did when I contacted 12 of them to come and rennovate a house for me did only 3 of them even bother coming round to quote for me?


mickbrown Posted on 24/11/2008 13:10
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Phil - only difference is that Canada isn't in the EU. You could go to Poland tomorrow.

MarlonD Posted on 24/11/2008 13:13
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Chorleyphil, there has been a shortage of decent tradesmen in the construction industry over the last few years but now the work has dried up people like yourself are suggesting that they should go back home etc.

What happens if there is a sudden shortage of aerispace work in Canada a couple of years after you've moved out there ? I do hope you'll do the honourable thing and come back to Blighty and leave local jobs for local people.

chorleyphil Posted on 24/11/2008 13:21
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

As a matter of FACT, I am only going there for four months to bring work back to Manchester.

Lizards,- how do I know which plasterers are decent or not? I should imagine bad ones get turfed off jobs.

And how should I know why only 3 builders bothered to quote your house?

You only have to look at this board to see how many people are getting laid off. Are you suggesting this is normal and fine?

To be honest, EU expansion is the worst thing to happen to Europe.

Mick, I dont get out of bed for less than 25 zlotys

MarlonD Posted on 24/11/2008 13:26
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

The state of the construction industry is absolutely F*** all to do with immigrant labour.

Try greedy developers and even greedier banks.

The_same_as_before Posted on 24/11/2008 13:27
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

I am more concerend abou the extra 5% income tax in those on over £150,000.

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 24/11/2008 13:27
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

"And how should I know why only 3 builders bothered to quote your house?"

Yet you know for a fact that "We dont have a shortage of plasterers or builders etc"?


Rod100 Posted on 24/11/2008 13:30
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

and some fag on a tv show telling everyone that if they buy a house and "dress" it correctly they'll make a million pounds.

mind that bird beeney has cracking tits like so its not all bad.

PinkPonce Posted on 24/11/2008 13:38
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Nomark, i'm still waiting for this apology... See Lizards post after yours.

chorleyphil Posted on 24/11/2008 13:42
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

So just to recap.

Brits working overseas because they have a required skill is a bad thing.

Foreign workers coming here, primarily because they're cheap, is a good thing.

Righto!

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 24/11/2008 13:44
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

or to put it another way:

Shoddy workmanship and high prices is fine, as it keeps Dave Englander in Stella Atois and Dominos pizza.

and

Economic migrants over to Canada is fine as long as long as it's ChorleyPhil.

BenGee Posted on 24/11/2008 13:45
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

I see Jam69 has posted his usual "old etonian" nonsense. If ever a person was more obsessed with another's schooling then he would be in a mental institution.

A country votes Labour in with a empty head and votes it out with an empty wallet.



The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 24/11/2008 13:47
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

The Conservatives should employ a leader like good old Tony Blair who went to the local comprehensive school, Fettes.

MarlonD Posted on 24/11/2008 13:49
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

It's not really a laughing matter but a [:D] for Lizards.

BTW chorleyphil, one of the main problems in the building industry is it's percieved image to the general public. You can blame your good old British Cowboys for that one.


mickbrown Posted on 24/11/2008 13:51
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Thing is, the education of politicians is important.

You've got to trust these feckers to run our state schools.

If you've never been to one and don't send your kids to one, why should you give a shyte?

chorleyphil Posted on 24/11/2008 13:54
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

I do agree with that Marlon.


BenGee Posted on 24/11/2008 13:59
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

"If you've never been to one and don't send your kids to one, why should you give a shyte?"

Tony Bliar never went to one as stated above but it didn't stop him telling us all about "eduction education education"


chorleyphil Posted on 24/11/2008 13:59
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

amen Mick.

and just to add, a Labour goverment has spent a lot of money on and in schools just to stop them from falling down after years of tory neglect.

They should be applauded for that.

Vote tory....not a chance.

BenGee Posted on 24/11/2008 14:01
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

And while I mention it can I just say that the average amount a person will save on this gimmick is nothing compared to the £100 at least Nulabour are going to cost us for carrying an ID card.

Scrap the ID card scheme save each of us money and the country billions in one fell swoop easy.




nobbienuts Posted on 24/11/2008 14:04
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Lizard you are having a larf right, either thta you are a complete tit!

"Tony Blair who went to the local comprehensive school"

TB went Fettes in Edinburgh which is about as far from a "comprehensive" as Eton is

Oh and his kids went to that famous comprehensive the LOS.


Link: link

mickbrown Posted on 24/11/2008 14:05
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

BenGee - his kids did though.

I know there will be examples on both sides of MP's going to public school, but on balance, Labour MPs are more likely to be like me and come from places like me.


scooby Posted on 24/11/2008 14:05
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

I think you are all being a bit harsh on Phil here. You can't compare him going to Canada to Polish workers coming here because they aren't the same situation.

When he goes to Canada, I presume he will be earning a wage high enough for him to live comfortably in Canada, just as all the Canadians *have* to do. He's not putting unfair pressure on the prices they have to charge for work over there.

mickbrown Posted on 24/11/2008 14:06
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

nobbie - whoooosh!!!

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 24/11/2008 14:11
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

You're not wrong there Mick, he even edits his quote so that it looks like he's telling me Blair went to Fettes.

Still nice of the thick T*** to throw a insult in as well.

BenGee Posted on 24/11/2008 14:12
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

"his kids did though"

And so do David Cameron's kids.

I mean it's not like a Labour MP would actively shun Comprehensive schools for public schools is it?

Dianne Abbot anyone???

nobbienuts Posted on 24/11/2008 14:13
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

brain moves fater than i can type...

The_Lizards_Jumpers - It was not meant as an insult, nore like "irony"

mickbrown Posted on 24/11/2008 14:20
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Ben, I know she did, hence me including the following sentence.

"I know there will be examples on both sides of MP's going to public school, but on balance, Labour MPs are more likely to be like me and come from places like me."

Line 'em up and count 'em if you like. I'll vote for the ones with the least public school tosspots.

chorleyphil Posted on 24/11/2008 14:21
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

What has sending your kids to private school got to do with owt?

and

Thank you Scooby. Me (and others) going there or anywhere does not effect the fabric of society as it does when you freely allow anyone who is cheap as chips, access to your country.

MarlonD Posted on 24/11/2008 14:24
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

scooby, phil blamed cheap labour for the lack of work in the construction industry.

He's wrong.

scooby Posted on 24/11/2008 14:28
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Marlon, I'm probably having a thick day but I've gone through the posts again and don't see him saying that? He does say that his son finds it hard to get work because he simply can't compete with the prices the immigrants charge.

chorleyphil Posted on 24/11/2008 14:28
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

No I didnt !

I said, at times like NOW. Foriegn workers should be stopped. Dont do this and you will loose homegrown builders forever.
As I said, look at whats happened in Germany.


I would expect it in my game.

BenGee Posted on 24/11/2008 14:29
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

"What has sending your kids to private school got to do with owt?"

I think you will find that trusty old red under the bed Jam69 started this by pointing out that members of the Conservative parties parents chose to send them to public schools.

I find it slightly concerning that there are people in this country who regard themselves as intelligent yet won't vote for an individual because of the school that person went to.

I have blue eyes so in the next Election I'm not going to vote for someone unless they have blue eyes too.




ABCD Posted on 24/11/2008 14:32
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Sorry if this is a repeat but TB DID NOT EVER AT ANYTIME ATTEND a comprehensive school.

He went to Chorister School in Durham which is a is a pre-preparatory and preparatory day and boarding school for boys and girls aged 3-13.

He then went on to Fettes in Edinburgh which is a "public School" like Eton is. After that he went to Oxford St. Johns.

His kids, all three of them, attended/attend the London Oratory School which is a catholic funded school and NOT a comprehensive like any I ever went to.

So comparing TB to Cameron they both received a "privileged" education.

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 24/11/2008 14:34
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"Sorry if this is a repeat but TB DID NOT EVER AT ANYTIME ATTEND a comprehensive school."


Oh FFS.


ABCD Posted on 24/11/2008 14:36
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

up your too mate [:P]

Capybara Posted on 24/11/2008 14:36
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

[:D]

zoec Posted on 24/11/2008 14:39
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

[:D] Yeah, fancy making such an elementary mistake, Lizards.

mickbrown Posted on 24/11/2008 14:40
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Ben - so you don't think that the school a person went to or the school that they send their kids to will affect decisions they make on education?

Human nature pal.

By the way, the London Oratory School is a state school.

MarlonD Posted on 24/11/2008 14:40
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

"Marlon, I'm probably having a thick day but I've gone through the posts again and don't see him saying that? He does say that his son finds it hard to get work because he simply can't compete with the prices the immigrants charge."

Therefore blaming the immigrant labour for the lack of work.

" said, at times like NOW. Foriegn workers should be stopped. Dont do this and you will loose homegrown builders forever.
As I said, look at whats happened in Germany."

We can't just pick & choose when we send out for foreign labour & then send them back.






number9 Posted on 24/11/2008 14:43
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Did you go to fettes then lizard?

chorleyphil Posted on 24/11/2008 14:45
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Why not?

I am not just concerned for my son (he's young enough to do summat else) I am also concerned for British workers


...or are we going back to the 80's?

castlewood Posted on 24/11/2008 14:46
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Laughable vat cut.Brown couldn't run a bath.

scooby Posted on 24/11/2008 14:51
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

****

"Marlon, I'm probably having a thick day but I've gone through the posts again and don't see him saying that? He does say that his son finds it hard to get work because he simply can't compete with the prices the immigrants charge."

Therefore blaming the immigrant labour for the lack of work.

****

I'm not having that! The 'lack of work' currently in this country is due to the economic downturn that has hit the construction industry. He's not blaming it on immigrants. There's a big difference between lack of work or absence of work than not being able to compete in the marketplace.

If there was 1000 plastering jobs yesterday and only 10 today, that would be a lack of work. When you can't compete with the costs charged by foreign labour for those remaining 10 jobs, that's where the playing field is not level.

MarlonD Posted on 24/11/2008 15:08
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Yes, the lack of work is due to a downturn, however when their was a large upturn their wasn't enough tradesmen to go round.

As I said previously we can't just pick & choose when we require immigrant labour. I feel for phil's son as work is scarce atm but he needs to hang in as it will pick up again.

And can I just add scooby that your days don't seem to be complete unless you get into a 'no that black dogsh1t is white' argument.

scooby Posted on 24/11/2008 15:15
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Marlon, you claimed he said the immigrant workforce was the reason we have less work to go around. It wasn't and all he was unhappy about was his son having to compete for what jobs were left over with people who simply do not have to support themselves in this country.

Now that's what he said so drop all the talk about dogS***(?) because you were the one who put the wrong words in his mouth. Why don't you just read what people have posted rather than concern yourself with me having an opinion?

chorleyphil Posted on 24/11/2008 15:15
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

So, as of now, any kids thinking of a trade should be prepared to be paid as low as a Pole and live, say, 6 blokes to a house, and not even dream of owning his own home?


The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 24/11/2008 15:16
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

"Did you go to fettes then lizard?"

Similar, Acklam Grange.

I used to work with a lad who went to Fettes, by the name of Rupert. His father went there and he intended to send his son there too.

He was as typical of a public schoolboy as you could wish to see.

zoec Posted on 24/11/2008 15:19
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

"He was as typical of a public schoolboy as you could wish to see."

A bit of a redundant sentence after the revelation that his name is Rupert.

MarlonD Posted on 24/11/2008 15:20
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"You had muppets on here 6 months ago saying it was fantastic getting a cheap plumbing job done by a foreigner. Well, this is the consequence."

The consequence being less work for his son hence blaming foreign labour. Best to leave it at that scooby.

Phil for what its worth if your son can afford to hang in things will definitely get better, the building industry will recover and as it's done in the past it will overshoot & their will be more work than workers.

chorleyphil Posted on 24/11/2008 15:21
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Must admit, Airbus UK went through a period of hiring non-engineering Oxbridge grads into Project Management.
What a fookin disaster, no wonder Bae sold up.

scooby Posted on 24/11/2008 15:23
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

****

"You had muppets on here 6 months ago saying it was fantastic getting a cheap plumbing job done by a foreigner. Well, this is the consequence."

The consequence being less work for his son hence blaming foreign labour. Best to leave it at that scooby.

****

Less work for his son because he can't compete with the prices. He never said the economic conditions the construction industry was anything to do with immigrant workforces.

MarlonD Posted on 24/11/2008 15:28
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FFS, you're like a F***ing Jack Russell.


MarlonD Posted on 24/11/2008 15:29
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Double yap.


scooby Posted on 24/11/2008 15:41
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Look Marlon, I don't know what the fook has got into you but if you can't see every debate as just what it is - a debate - then don't enter into them.

Fook knows what I've done to you but for some reason you seem to be intent on turning ever little thing into some sort of personal dig against me. Now grow up and move on FFS. Your "it's only a messageboard and it's all about the craic" board persona seems to be crumbling a bit around the edges lately. Be a man and admit you read the wrong thing into Chorley Phil's comments because you were determined to paint him as some sort of Xenophobic Little Englander.

chorleyphil Posted on 24/11/2008 15:48
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

which I'm far from.

I guess I am trying to say people should be able to earn a fair rate, foriegners included. But when agents put 3 quid an hr lads on jobs and have em live like pigs, well thats not on.

We've moved on from that.....or have we?

mickbrown Posted on 24/11/2008 15:53
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Phil - you know that's happening for a fact?

MarlonD Posted on 24/11/2008 15:54
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

scooby, I was far from trying to paint him as xenophobic.

Phil was initially implying that the building trade in this country is suffering due to over employment with immigrants.

It's not, it's other main reasons. And Phil if their are outfits putting foreign labbour on a job for £3/hour I hope they get caught and dealt with accordingly.we're going around in circles.

And I'm far from trying to turn things personal against you trod, it just seems somedays that you're more argumentative & tetchy than you are on other days where you're just plain argumentative.

My last post on the subject so type away.

scooby Posted on 24/11/2008 16:02
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

"Phil was initially implying that the building trade in this country is suffering due to over employment with immigrants."

Only he can say what he was implying. You read into it what you wanted to but he has since said that the interpretation I gave for his comments was the one he meant.

I love the way you argue with me about me being argumentative. Don't argue then if it insults your delicate nature so much. I also find the way you stick "last post type away" on the end rather childish. It's the equivalent of standing there with your fingers in your ears saying "lalalalalalalalalalala".

Don't reply to me if you don't want to. I won't see it as a sleight on you if you do or you don't but I think you owe Phil an apology for putting words into his mouth.

rivals_oldschool Posted on 24/11/2008 16:03
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Exactly what else did people foresee for the construction industry when the music would eventually stop?

I prefer to blame the narrow mindless greed of allowing too much cheap labour in in the first place, rather than blame the two million unemployed chucked on the scrap heap because they arenít prepared to live in a hovel, like a Pole.

MarlonD Posted on 24/11/2008 16:04
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

You think I should apologise to Phil [:D]

You part own B17 not this board so I don't think it's your place to tell anyone what they should do.


scooby Posted on 24/11/2008 16:09
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

I think you should because you've made him out to be something he is not. I'm not demanding anything from anyone.

Also, I do not part-own any board and never have.



joshie Posted on 24/11/2008 17:11
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Nice to see I am worse off yet again due to our friendly labour government.

Petrol, alchohol and ciggies up, but more importantly an increase of .5% in national insurance contributions. A rise in income tax in all but name.

chorleyphil Posted on 25/11/2008 08:51
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Joshie - what on earth are you talking about.

Its a reduction, not a raise.

RandyGrandad Posted on 25/11/2008 08:56
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

chorleyphil; read the smallprint; VAT is being reduced; income tax, fuel duty and tax on grog are all going up. The bloke (Darling, or Brown for that matter), is/are a grade A T***'s. They feed you with one hand but take it away with the other.

joshie Posted on 25/11/2008 08:58
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Is it really. From the BBC website -

NATIONAL INSURANCE
From April 2011 all rates of National Insurance contributions are to be increased by 0.5% for all employees and employers.

Phil what on earth are you talking about?

chorleyphil Posted on 25/11/2008 09:04
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

thats 3 years off

Justino Posted on 25/11/2008 09:05
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

One suspects Chorelyphil thinks Labour is the party of the working man and would not dream of pulling a stunt were they pretend to give with one hand but actually take more away with the other hand.

This country is going to be in more debt than it ever has before thanks to Brown, a man who had been at the helm for the whole journey thus far and is as responsible for this mess as anyone or anything.

joshie Posted on 25/11/2008 09:06
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Because it is 2 years and a month or so away does not make it a reduction phil does it though?

RandyGrandad Posted on 25/11/2008 09:06
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

chorleyphil; 3 years off yes. So I can deduce that you are in favour of short term gains and then being arseraped in the future.

chorleyphil Posted on 25/11/2008 09:09
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Initial calculations by KPMG suggest that while almost everyone will be a winner next year, high earners will see more of their wages go to the tax man from 2010.

Changes to income tax and national insurance mean that somebody working and earning £10,000 will be £118.80 better off in 2009/10 and 2010/11, rising to £215.58 the following year.

A person on a salary of £50,000 will be ahead by £343.30 in the next two tax years, and £240.08 better off in 2011/12.

Meanwhile someone earning £150,000 stands to gain £343.30 next year, but be £2,246.70 worse off in 2010/11 and £2,849.93 down the following year.

The KPMG calculations do not take into account any pensions or other benefits.


RandyGrandad Posted on 25/11/2008 09:10
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Post 2012??? Oh and what about those earning more than £10k (i.e. more than 10 but less than 50)...

joshie Posted on 25/11/2008 09:17
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

I personally will be worse off as soon as the duties on fuel,alchohol and ciggies is raised. I will be worse off again when national insurance is raised.

I will gain nothing from the correction of the 10p income tax fiasco, the same fiasco that highlighted something that was obvious to many, labour doesnt really give a flyer about the low paid working man.

The temporary reduction in VAT will reduce my mobile phone bill by a pound or so and thats about it as far as benefits go.

Even the proposed moving forward of building projects is a bit of a red herring as many of these projects have so many other factors that influence starts on them, that the government know they cant influence.

RandyGrandad Posted on 25/11/2008 09:20
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Didnt Tony Blair accept large sums of money from Lord Sainsbury to help him run the Labour Party?.......you scratch my back.


edit: Yes he did...just means that it will make the multinationals even richer.


Link: In the money...

chorleyphil Posted on 25/11/2008 09:24
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

'labour doesnt really give a flyer about the low paid working man'


Who introduced the minimum wage ?

joshie Posted on 25/11/2008 09:30
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Labour did, however the tories or the lib dems would have introduced it too at some point, European law.


mickbrown Posted on 25/11/2008 09:33
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Tories voted against it.

They also voted againt the creation of the NHS. They don't give a shiny one about us and our kind.

Be sure of that.

joshie Posted on 25/11/2008 09:44
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Labour dont, you can be sure of that too.

Self aggrandisement, the legacy of blair and brown.


mickbrown Posted on 25/11/2008 09:45
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

So Labour didn't bring in the NHS and minimum wage?

Ah, my mistake.

Justino Posted on 25/11/2008 09:50
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Mick are you seriously suggesting I vote Labour because they created the NHS in 1948?

number9 Posted on 25/11/2008 09:51
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

"almost everyone will be a winner next year"

Yup really looking forward to saving my 20p on the next cd i buy for the Veron

rivals_oldschool Posted on 25/11/2008 09:55
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What good is a minimum wage anyway?


mickbrown Posted on 25/11/2008 09:55
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Justino - I couldn't give a monkey's who you vote for.

Just pointing out that anything decent that Labour have introduced that might benefit ordinary folk has always been opposed by the Tories. Those are the facts

chorleyphil Posted on 25/11/2008 09:59
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

still a winner Number9 :-)

joshie Posted on 25/11/2008 10:06
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

I didnt say that they hadnt Mick, the Labour party that establish the NHS over half a century ago has no resemblence to new labour, surely you can see the corrupt, self aggrandisement for what it is. Lord Mandelson as one example of many.

Mavrick Posted on 25/11/2008 10:07
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

2.5% VAT cut wont make much of a difference. Yes it may help the smaller business but at the end of the day you can not kick start the economic climate. Its in its downturn and its going to taking alot of recovering to make any difference. Think about it, will a 2.5% VAT cut give back all the jobs to the workers who have been made redundant due to operating costs being high and demand being low. Buyer confidence is down and cutting prices wont make a huge difference, all the government are doing is contridicting the market, (How can people buy if they dont have jobs, yet how can people have jobs if business cant support the workforce)!

sparkins Posted on 25/11/2008 10:18
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Having watched the whole Pre-Budget report yesterday, I did start to wonder if either of the two major parties would ever consider the appointment of Vince Cable as chancellor after the next election. It is, after all possible, to make your cabinet up with whoever you please, regardless of party loyalty. throughout the last 12 months, one man has spoken sense and that is Cable.

Obama has hinted that he will go across party lines when he builds his own cabinet, something I doubt either of the two main parties in this country would countenance.


Link: Cable

chorleyphil Posted on 25/11/2008 10:21
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

May I just ask you as to what economic measures that the Conservative government introduced during the great recession of the 80's ??

No?

Fcuk all thats what!! Short memories on here.

joshie Posted on 25/11/2008 13:22
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

I worked during the recession in the 80's and I do know that during the time when the tories where in office I paid substantially less tax than I did under labour, even before the credit crunch and envisage paying even more through Browns 'no more boom and bust' prime minister-ship.

I personally have been much better off under conservative government than labour. I also personally think this government is the most corrupt and self-serving there has been in my life time.

bear66 Posted on 25/11/2008 13:32
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

"I worked during the recession in the 80's"

3,000,000 didn't . . . and it spawned two generations of 'no hopers' putting a huge onus on the state to support them as well as initiating the worst crime culture ever (?). Even the tories of the '90s and naughties turned their back on that era of conservatism. I'm sorry you're so poor now compared with the '80s . . . .

Capybara Posted on 25/11/2008 13:38
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

'I worked during the recession in the 80's and I do know that during the time when the tories where in office I paid substantially less tax than I did under labour, even before the credit crunch and envisage paying even more through Browns 'no more boom and bust' prime minister-ship.'

Probably because you were paid much less, because the basic rate of income tax for the first half of the 80s was 30%.

joshie Posted on 25/11/2008 13:39
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

I left school and started work in 1984, at no stage was i paying 30% income tax.

I would imagine the figure of 3 million is about the same as we have now, 1.8 million officially unemployed, those unemployed but not claiming, those now not entitled to benefit and the majority of those people on incapacity benefit who are milking the system.

I would also suggest you can add another million or so on to that over the next year or two. Given that new labour have made it more in peoples interests not to be married leading to many one parent families which have increased likelyhood of criminal children, then i would suggest the worst is yet to come.

I am not poor compared to the 80's but I paid less tax to the government out of the money I earned. I earned money because I wasnt a work-shy layabout like many of those 3 million you refer to.

bear66 Posted on 25/11/2008 13:42
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

you need to get about a bit more if you can't see the difference - so you're paying more tax and better off - that's what I like to hear

joshie Posted on 25/11/2008 13:44
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

I am better off because i have a better job, I have advanced myself. I earn a lot more than i did then but pay a much higher percentage of my wage to the government than i did in the 80's

bear66 Posted on 25/11/2008 13:46
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

good to hear - that was the new labour promise . . . .

joshie Posted on 25/11/2008 13:48
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

It owes nothing to new labour, it is down to my choice to change career paths and retrain into a better paid job, nothing this government have had any influence upon.

bear66 Posted on 25/11/2008 13:50
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Try living in a country with right wing neo-conservatism 'values' for a bit and see if you can realise your dreams there . . . or just work for a company with right wing, neo--conservatism 'values' for a few years . . or until they downsize you - their supreme ethic

Capybara Posted on 25/11/2008 13:53
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

But the fact is you pay more tax now because you have a better job, not because of who the government is. If you were earning what you earn now in 1985 you would have paid more tax than you are doing now.

joshie Posted on 25/11/2008 13:57
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

No, as a percentage of my income i pay more tax under this government than I did under the conservative government.

rivals_oldschool Posted on 25/11/2008 14:01
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

The difference in the 80ís was that you still had inflation meaning you could still purchase a house and the inflation would make that debt manageable, count this over the years and it explains why the baby boom generation (those ranging from their 40ís to their 70ís) hold the lions share of wealth in terms of housing, jobs, wages and pensions.

Every single effort the Labour party has made over the last few months is to stop that gravy train from derailing, nothing else.

They donít represent me or most people in their twenties or under, they represent generations before us and for that reason I want them out.

bear66 Posted on 25/11/2008 14:03
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Bring back rampant inflation . . . all is forgiven . . . .

Lefty Posted on 25/11/2008 14:05
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

joshie,

Are you now a higher rate taxpayer?

mickbrown Posted on 25/11/2008 14:07
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

"Given that new labour have made it more in peoples interests not to be married leading to many one parent families which have increased likelyhood of criminal children, then i would suggest the worst is yet to come."

Oh do fook off. That gets right on my tits.

I'm not married - does that mean my kid is going to be a criminal?

chorleyphil Posted on 25/11/2008 14:32
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Joshie,

The fabric was ripped out of society in the 80's, never mind the small change that you pay more of.

Thing is, up till 12 months ago, as a nation, we have been more affluent than ever.

BARRACA Posted on 25/11/2008 14:48
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Surely the main consideration is that when the Trillion pounds of borrowing has to be repaid it is the taxpayer who will fork out. So forget about low taxes and cheap petrol after the next election. Still it won't concern Labour as they will be in opposition then.



bear66 Posted on 25/11/2008 14:51
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

"Surely the main consideration is that" people will have jobs so they can pay back the tax . . .

BARRACA Posted on 25/11/2008 14:55
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

You think that this token gesture(before the real thing) for the election will create any jobs bear66?

bear66 Posted on 25/11/2008 15:01
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

There is a positive element that may stimulate things a bit, but I'm not totally convinced. They should have gone the whole lib dem hog and put the 2.5% into a low tax bracket. The poor would spend the money . . . . the 2.5% will be kept by the businesses and may protect employment a bit . . . . .

joshie Posted on 25/11/2008 15:07
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Lefty, I am a self employed engineer I work it so I dont fall into the higher tax bracket.

Mick, I didnt say that at all, statistically more children in single parent families fall into crime that is an established fact. I am also not married and have children, I am not expecting my son to fall into crime but that doesnt mean the statistical facts are wrong.

Phil, in my opinion the labour government has done more to disenfranchise people than any government I have experienced. I am concerned about the 'small change' coming out of my pocket because I work hard for my money and resent government stealing more and more of it when they are a corrupt and inept organisation.

mickbrown Posted on 25/11/2008 15:12
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But its a stat that's used to demonise a whole sectioon of law abiding citizens and such you shouldn't be fecking repeating it

joshie Posted on 25/11/2008 15:17
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

I fall into this category and dont feel demonised by it as it doesnt apply to my children and I dont expect it to in the future. It is a valid statistic to use in retort to other peoples views on here, in my opinion.

chorleyphil Posted on 25/11/2008 15:18
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Joshie, you all IR35 compliant then?

zoec Posted on 25/11/2008 15:20
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Being unmarried with children doesn't necessarily make you a single parent family.

mickbrown Posted on 25/11/2008 15:20
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

"Lefty, I am a self employed engineer I work it so I dont fall into the higher tax bracket."

Spo you don't pay your fair share then?

joshie Posted on 25/11/2008 15:25
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

No Mick thats not the case, I pay what I am supposed to

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 25/11/2008 15:26
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

You "work" the system in order for it to be favorable to yourself.

Capybara Posted on 25/11/2008 15:30
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

I'm still intrigued that you pay less tax when you earn £x at 33% basic rate than you do when you earn £x at 22% basic rate.

bear66 Posted on 25/11/2008 15:32
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

"I work it so I dont fall into the higher tax bracket"

hmmm

chorleyphil Posted on 25/11/2008 15:43
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

There is nothing wrong with exploiting loopholes. Setting up a Ltd company and working freelance is quite legal.

Must MP's of ALL political parties do it. They call it tax free expenses.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not a labour lover, its just that I despise what the tories did in the 80's.

mickbrown Posted on 25/11/2008 15:45
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Perfectly legal in a big fook off, I'm alright Jack type of way.


nobbienuts Posted on 25/11/2008 15:52
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

mickbrown

Change the record old son you are starting to sound like "Red Rob" or is that you in disguise?

joshie Posted on 25/11/2008 16:04
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

I pay exactly the amount of tax I am legally bound to do, not a penny more or a penny less. I am not exploiting the system, I am not working the system, I know what level of tax I am forced to pay under the system that is in place and adhere to it.

mickbrown Posted on 25/11/2008 16:08
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

"Lefty, I am a self employed engineer I work it so I dont fall into the higher tax bracket."

So what does the above mean?

bear66 Posted on 25/11/2008 16:11
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

"the majority of those people on incapacity benefit who are milking the system."

Are these people doing something illegal or just 'working' the system?

joshie Posted on 25/11/2008 16:38
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

They are pretending they are incapable of work when in many cases this is not the case. They are claiming fraudulently and therefore breaking the law.

I am not breaking any law and am merely utilising my brain to read up on relevant tax law before paying what is due. Much as anyone with any sense would read the terms and conditions before buying something of a certain expense from a shop, for example.

chorleyphil Posted on 25/11/2008 16:41
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

What engineering Job do you do Joshie?

joshie Posted on 25/11/2008 16:44
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Civil, army base and a shopping centre this year.

Lefty Posted on 25/11/2008 17:21
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Joshie,

Youíre talking rubbish mate.

Ďas a percentage of my income i pay more tax under this government than I did under the conservative governmentí

I thought Iíd have a little look at this to see if you could possibly right. Assuming that you are just below the higher rate threshold now, which seems reasonable as you Ďwork it so I dont fall into the higher tax bracketí I thought Iíd work the figures back, adjusting for inflation, to try and see what the total direct tax take off your wage was in 1979-80, the year Maggie took over, 1985-86 mid point of this golden 80ís period you refer to, 1989-90 the end of your golden period, 1996-97 the tax regime of the last Tory government, and 2008-09, the current deplorable high tax situation.

Taking into account income tax, class 2 and class 4 NIC you would have paid over 29.49% of your income in direct taxes in 1979-80, 31.28% in 1985-86, 26.44% in 1989-90, 25.03% in 1996-97 and a whopping 24.14% in 2008-09.

It looks like youíre quite wrong, assuming you werenít meaning something as daft as you only earned £2300 in 1985-86 which was only £95 over the tax threshold so your tax was only £23.75 which clearly would only be 1% of your total income. I donít think you are that stupid to have been meaning that.

joshie Posted on 25/11/2008 18:58
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Lefty,

Your assumption in the first place would be wrong for starters.

You also wrongly assumed I was referring to only direct taxation from income tax and NI.

Perhaps a better way of wording my phrase would be 'working it OUT so i dont fall into the higher tax bracket' but if thats a stick you want to beat me with feel free.

I dont think you are stupid at all just you made mistaken assumptions.

Justino Posted on 25/11/2008 22:13
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

oh dear seems Nulabour were on a stitch up after all.


vat at 18.5% in 2011???


Link: LINK

HolgateCorner Posted on 25/11/2008 23:11
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Everybody will have a choice within in the next couple of years and be able to vote for the party they think gives them the most hope for the future.

Labour - doing something to get us out of recession.

Tory - doing nothing, return to laissez faire for another 15 years.

Mmmm, let me see, where shall I put my cross?

cannibal Posted on 25/11/2008 23:41
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Quite right Holgate.
I remember last recession, high loan interest rates, high mortgage interest rate.
However recently mortgage rates (for many lenders) have reduced to low rates (certainly lowest I have known it). Went shopping on Saturday morning (before the match)and everywhere was offering 20% off (before Xmas!)
Now we have a budget offering more reductions (before you all say it, YES we will pay in the end more taxes in 12 - 18month time ). Those who are in work (apart from those who most well off including city (B)*ankers who have creamed the country) will be better off NOW!!
However it is those who will lose jobs as a result of the world recession I feel sorry for. Let's hope after the financial announcements on Monday the total will be reduced.
THAT WAS A PART POLITICAL BROADCAST ON BEHALF OF THE CANNIBAL PARTY


Where is Cameron? The man with a plan? Under all the slime me thinks there is a politician trying to get out?

BenGee Posted on 26/11/2008 07:55
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

"Labour - doing something to get us out of recession.

Tory - doing nothing, return to laissez faire for another 15 years.

Mmmm, let me see, where shall I put my cross?"

That makes a load of sense that.... I'm not going to vote for the party that are ruining the country now because another party imo ruined the country 20 years ago.

Did your daddy tell you to vote Labour?



number9 Posted on 26/11/2008 09:03
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

chorleyphil
"still a winner Number9 :-)"

?

chorleyphil Posted on 26/11/2008 09:43
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Well you are. vat is 2.5% less.

Look Interest rates are lowest for ages, vat has been reduced.
Things are in places for the economy to start moving again and for companies to trade better and keep people in work.
Ok, in 3 years it will need to be paid back, but right now the important thing is keeping people in work.

Give me an alternative solution !

number9 Posted on 26/11/2008 09:52
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Three quick ideas to get you started....

Get Of Government waste - All MP's first class travel cancelled
Cancel id cards will save about £20bill
Cancel Trident will save about £100bill

So there you go one fell swoop I've proberbly saved over £150 bill, not bad for a novice don't you think.


Edit - re-negotiate CAP will save a fortune.

chorleyphil Posted on 26/11/2008 10:00
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

I would agree with that TBH

But that wont stimulate the economy.

number9 Posted on 26/11/2008 10:06
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Proberbly not but it will help the public finances.

If this Government had the "balls" and not just Ed (told a joke) it would have done something constructive.

Personnally if they are going to "borrow" £500bill I would rather see that spent on captial projects like investing in job creation. They should use the opportunity to...

1) Improve our decrepid transport system and remove our dependance on roads for frieght
2) Encourage business investment with low or 0% interest for startups

Just a couple of ideas but that sort of thing does not win votes. But then me being a JW I know that no government no matter what colour or creade will only serve there own hubris.

rivals_oldschool Posted on 26/11/2008 10:12
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Lowering interest rates wonít make a damn difference, They've already been low for the past decade, that ship has run it's course now.

If you want to see similarities then see the banking crisis Japan had in the late 1980ís when they had rates of 0%.

Easy credit and easy borrowing got us into this mess in the first place, Labours solution, even more borrowing.

Theyíre desperate, out of ideas and fighting for the political lives. Theyíre so desperate theyíre willing to risk the value of the pound.

Labours course is over, they had their shot and they failed. The next Govt in power wonít have an easy ride but Iíll be damned if Iím going to vote this bunch of incumbents again.

Lefty Posted on 26/11/2008 12:20
Browns 2.5% VAT cut

Joshie,

Whether my assumption is right or wrong, unless you were on a very low wage then compared to now your direct taxes are less in 2008/09 under Labour.

If you are talking about indirect taxes, this is a very difficult thing to compare, but I can say that the VAT Rate under Labour in 1979 was 8%. First thing Thatcher did was put it up to 15%. It was John Major who further increased it to 17.5% in 1991/92. Brown has just reduced it to 15%.

As for Council Tax, well this scheme was pretty much worked out by Heseltine in John Majors Government as a response to the fiasco of the Poll Tax which, as I'm sure you remember, was brought in by Margaret Thatcher and led to her downfall due to it's unpopularity with the electorate who recognised it was unfair on the lower paid.

I have no argument with you on the various duties, except to say that some of this is due to your choice of expenditure, which is of course what Mrs Thatcher said when she nearly doubled VAT.