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scooby Posted on 13/11/2008 09:29
Prince Charles on TV last night

I'm sure not many others share this view but I thought he came across well and, as I have concluded from previous 'insights', he seems like a pretty top bloke.

Apologies in advance for saying anything positive about someone people probably love to hate.

MarlonD Posted on 13/11/2008 09:31
Prince Charles on TV last night

Never had a problem wuth him. I think his two sons seem decent as well.


Jeremy_Clarkson Posted on 13/11/2008 09:31
Prince Charles on TV last night

Dont you think Camilla looks like what Diana would have looked like had she survived that crash? [:D]






Frankie Boyle Live 2008

Old_Gregg Posted on 13/11/2008 09:34
Prince Charles on TV last night

I have never been one of these people who seem to think it's "cool" to be anti-monarchy. Yes, there might be a few too many minor royals but the main gang of the Queen, Charles, William and Harry all seem like top people and I wouldn't change to a republic for anything.

Manny-Being-Manny Posted on 13/11/2008 09:35
Prince Charles on TV last night

She looks like ZELDA out of Terrorhawks.

ridsdale Posted on 13/11/2008 09:36
Prince Charles on TV last night

I think he is an overpaid loon who should never become king.


Are you all wanting to be royal butlers or something?

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 13/11/2008 09:36
Prince Charles on TV last night

I like Charles.


Mrs Jumpers uncle has met both Camilla and Charles quite a few times through work, and says that they are both pretty decent people and a joy to talk to.

MarlonD Posted on 13/11/2008 09:37
Prince Charles on TV last night

I'd go for a pint with them ridsdale.


Jeremy_Clarkson Posted on 13/11/2008 09:38
Prince Charles on TV last night

I still cant look at Charles without thinking of his quote to Camilla...."I want to be your tampax" [:O] shudders....

ridsdale Posted on 13/11/2008 09:38
Prince Charles on TV last night

While married to Diana, phones Camila and tells her he wishes he was her Tampax???


Total nutter.

boro_exile Posted on 13/11/2008 09:39
Prince Charles on TV last night

agree, came across as a decent enough chap and down to earth, not hoity toity at all really

ridsdale Posted on 13/11/2008 09:39
Prince Charles on TV last night

Marlon, you would join anybodys gang.

ridsdale Posted on 13/11/2008 09:40
Prince Charles on TV last night

Public schoolboys sticking up for each other.


No surprise there.

MarlonD Posted on 13/11/2008 09:41
Prince Charles on TV last night

ridsdale, I know how to socially interact, unlike yourself.

Done a reccy(sp) on Rob's house lately ?

ridsdale Posted on 13/11/2008 09:42
Prince Charles on TV last night

Yes, I'm outside now.

MarlonD Posted on 13/11/2008 09:42
Prince Charles on TV last night

Are him & Goldby sat eating cheerio's ?

ridsdale Posted on 13/11/2008 09:43
Prince Charles on TV last night

I didn't know it was called that.

MarlonD Posted on 13/11/2008 09:44
Prince Charles on TV last night

[:D]


mickbrown Posted on 13/11/2008 09:46
Prince Charles on TV last night

He's a chinless parasite. As are all of then.

Vive la republique !!

ridsdale Posted on 13/11/2008 09:47
Prince Charles on TV last night

Let's have a king with a chin.


Jimmy Hill.

zaphod Posted on 13/11/2008 09:59
Prince Charles on TV last night

I read somewhere that before they were married Charles instructed Diana to call him "Sir". Better than Your Majesty I suppose.

Charles appears to be surrounded by sycophants who give him the impression that he's super-intelligent & every one of his ideas is great. As a result, he fires off frequent missives to Government Ministers telling them what to do.

I'm a monarchist, but I sincerely hope QE II outlives him.

Bandy Posted on 13/11/2008 10:21
Prince Charles on TV last night

He's a clown. Might come across as a decent sort because he is thick as two short planks. Thankfully his sons are nowt like him.

ridsdale Posted on 13/11/2008 10:22
Prince Charles on TV last night

The sons are thick as well, despite an expensive private education.

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 13/11/2008 10:22
Prince Charles on TV last night

"Thankfully his sons are nowt like him."

No they're really clever lads, especially the one who dresses in Nazi uniforms for a laugh.

MarlonD Posted on 13/11/2008 10:25
Prince Charles on TV last night

Exactly Lizards, absolutely outrageous behaviour.

Lizards did you ever get a reply from the BBC regarding your complaint about Brand/Clarkson/Ross ?

Bandy Posted on 13/11/2008 10:26
Prince Charles on TV last night

whats wrong with that Lizards?

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 13/11/2008 10:28
Prince Charles on TV last night

Nope Marlon, not the one I sent about the newsreader who insisted on a white taxi driver.


MarlonD Posted on 13/11/2008 10:30
Prince Charles on TV last night

Keep up the good work Lizards.

It's people like you that made the martydom of Mary Whitehouse that bit more bearable.

mickbrown Posted on 13/11/2008 10:41
Prince Charles on TV last night

They are all thick as feck. Must be the inbreeding

Did you realise that only 5 members of the Royal family back through the ages have ever got a degree?

Even my mob of Irish navvies and ditch diggers P*** all over em.

Royal family? I've S*** em.

Bandy Posted on 13/11/2008 10:41
Prince Charles on TV last night

I'm with mick on this one. Total and utter parasites and they seem very comfortable not wanting to change that lifestyle.

scooby Posted on 13/11/2008 10:43
Prince Charles on TV last night

Did you know that Charles was the first to actually go to school?

Anyway, I watched it last night and it was pretty clear he was far from stupid and some of the schemes he has set up are something to be proud off.

Bandy Posted on 13/11/2008 10:46
Prince Charles on TV last night

dont pat him on the back for doing stuff like that. He has the time, the money and the fame to do that quite easily. When dya reckon he last changed a dirty nappy or sat in traffic for 2 hours?

MarlonD Posted on 13/11/2008 10:48
Prince Charles on TV last night

Or sat on a football messageboard for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. Pft.

Bandy Posted on 13/11/2008 10:48
Prince Charles on TV last night

he doesnt like football

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 13/11/2008 10:49
Prince Charles on TV last night

"When dya reckon he last changed a dirty nappy"


Hoepfully not for a fair few years, that is unless his sons havent even learned how to use the toilet yet....




Bandy Posted on 13/11/2008 10:51
Prince Charles on TV last night

if we want to get particular then I could rip you all to shreds

mickbrown Posted on 13/11/2008 10:51
Prince Charles on TV last night

...that is unless his sons havent even learned how to use the toilet yet....


Wouldn't surprise me in the least.

guyb Posted on 13/11/2008 10:52
Prince Charles on TV last night

I don't hate him but I do object to him getting a job just because it's what his mother does, ditto his sons.

Once the Queen goes, I think it's time to look at the whole situation again.

Thomas Paine was right. "The idea of a hereditary monarch is as absurd as a hereditary mathimatician".

LoveLoveMido Posted on 13/11/2008 10:55
Prince Charles on TV last night

guy .. could your dad spell?

guyb Posted on 13/11/2008 11:02
Prince Charles on TV last night

well done - you spotted my practical example, quite quickly too.

Now if my dad was the UK Spelling King, why should I get his job when I'm clearly not up to it, just because he's my dad?

scooby Posted on 13/11/2008 11:02
Prince Charles on TV last night

Seems that most of the criticism is towards something which he had no choice over.

Still, if you'd watched it last night you would have had some insight into the housing projects he has set up where poorer people are able to live alongside the better off despite greedy house builders saying it cannot be done. Like it or not, he's done far more with this 'privileged' life than most have done with theirs.

ridsdale Posted on 13/11/2008 11:03
Prince Charles on TV last night

Good point Guy.

ridsdale Posted on 13/11/2008 11:05
Prince Charles on TV last night

He will be opening Buckingham Palace up for the homeless next.

scooby Posted on 13/11/2008 11:06
Prince Charles on TV last night

guy, who did he inherit the Prince's Trust and the associated charities from?

Again, you are attacking the circumstance he was born into rather than the man.

mickbrown Posted on 13/11/2008 11:06
Prince Charles on TV last night

Scooby - you're not naive enough to actually believe he does anything are you?

He's a figurehead, a name.

LoveLoveMido Posted on 13/11/2008 11:06
Prince Charles on TV last night

Guy, tks :)

And I dont disagree with your sentiments, but on what basis is he not up to the job? On what basis is QEII a good monarch?

guyb Posted on 13/11/2008 11:13
Prince Charles on TV last night

an intriguing question LLM. You can measure government's success, but a monarch?

scooby Posted on 13/11/2008 11:22
Prince Charles on TV last night

Mick, you are not naive enough to think that head of organisations do everything, do you? Does your boss do your job? Mine doesn't. Neither does the bloke who set up our company.

mickbrown Posted on 13/11/2008 11:28
Prince Charles on TV last night

But my boss is here 9 to 5 everyday.

Is Charlie boy? Is he feck as like.

scooby Posted on 13/11/2008 11:28
Prince Charles on TV last night

Why would he be at your work?

boro_exile Posted on 13/11/2008 11:28
Prince Charles on TV last night

"I don't hate him but I do object to him getting a job just because it's what his mother does, ditto his sons."

the concept of a hereditary monarchy seems completely lost on you

as for saying he's just a figurehead, the implication being he does fook all himself, can i just highlight the importance of having such a figurehead who will attract investment, raise awareness, etc in a way no other famous person can

the princes trust was not an idea he stuck his label on, it was borne of his own enthusiasm and ideals

too many anti-monarchists on here without a clue what this bloke actually does, just read the bollox in the mirror/express/other shoite and actually believe it

rant over, off for tea with the queen now

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 13/11/2008 11:29
Prince Charles on TV last night

You reckon that every boss is there 9-5?

When my father in law ran his company he'd pop in a few times a week, offer them the benefit of his experience and make sure his staff were running everything smoothly.

mickbrown Posted on 13/11/2008 11:56
Prince Charles on TV last night

Boro_Exile, monarchist from across the pond.

Thanks for that.

boro_exile Posted on 13/11/2008 12:20
Prince Charles on TV last night

mick - born in North Tees General, never lived outside the UK (yet), monarchist from across the pond?? mrs exile is a yank

mickbrown Posted on 13/11/2008 12:22
Prince Charles on TV last night

You moving out there then?

scooby Posted on 13/11/2008 12:25
Prince Charles on TV last night

From what he posted a while back, she is moving over here - to be a nurse.

boro_exile Posted on 13/11/2008 12:32
Prince Charles on TV last night

scooby is spot on - she moves over here in jan, get married next year, start a family, then move over there to raise our kids away from the uk where in a few years time we'll have gone to the dogs even more

littlejimmy Posted on 13/11/2008 14:29
Prince Charles on TV last night

Anyone else catch that clumsy aside to the guy from Oman about there almost being more mosques than churches these days. Almost like his dad, with that one. Still, he's pretty harmless and isn't all bad for a royal.

zorro_mfc Posted on 13/11/2008 15:23
Prince Charles on TV last night

I have never been one of these people who seem to think it's "cool" to be anti-monarchy.

I have it's called democracy and what ever way you look at it a monarchy is anathema in a modern democratic world. As for this notion of hereditary monarchy they are nothing of the sort they are German carpetbaggers who leapt in to stop the scots taking it first.

Charles Sax Coburg Gotha and his ilk should return to Saxony and let them pay for them parasites. I love how brainwashed as a nation we still are and that this bizarre notion of ooh we must keep the monarchy is alive and well.

Gawd bless em

Another argument I love is the "we must keep them for tourism", yes as no one visits Paris do they.

zoec Posted on 13/11/2008 15:36
Prince Charles on TV last night

I don't really have an opinion on Charles, but Harry is a coc k of the highest order.

zorro_mfc Posted on 13/11/2008 15:37
Prince Charles on TV last night

Harry is a C**** of the highest order

That's because he takes after his dad, Will on the other hand takes after charles.

boro_exile Posted on 13/11/2008 15:39
Prince Charles on TV last night

i see your point zorro, but we had a monarchy before the sax coburgs. all the european royals are inter-related anyway

zoec Posted on 13/11/2008 15:41
Prince Charles on TV last night

Victoria did her best to wipe out most of the European monarchies by marrying her children into as many royal families as possible.

zorro_mfc Posted on 13/11/2008 15:46
Prince Charles on TV last night

Boro-exile yes we did have and i have no problem with ancient monarchy as they were the head of the army and they fought in battles, they were seen as the rulers of the land that was how things were, and we have a rich and at times bloody history which we should remember but come on look at the other monarchies and great dynastic families they have all but gone (or ceeded any power) but no we are still stuck in aspic.

As Guyb said it is time to end the gravy train based on nothing more than a lottery of birth once and for all.




rivals_oldschool Posted on 13/11/2008 15:55
Prince Charles on TV last night

I take the opinion he finds the time to setup public appeasing trusts, to help keep a lid on anybody questioning his absolute life of wealth, power and luxury.

What else does he have to do all day?

Old_Gregg Posted on 13/11/2008 15:56
Prince Charles on TV last night

Our monarch has ceded almost all real power nowadays anyway. They are there as a figurehead no more. Do you really believe that "the gravy train based on nothing more than a lottery of birth" as you put it would end if we did away with our monarchy.

The vast majority of our royal families wealth comes from private sources, eg land. If we scrapped the monarchy, the family (although not royal any more) would still own all this land and therefore would still be extremely rich. So their descendants would still be very rich based on "a lottery of birth". So the only thing to change would be devaluing our country by becoming a republic.

a_crab_must_die Posted on 13/11/2008 15:59
Prince Charles on TV last night

"So the only thing to change would be devaluing our country by becoming a republic"




becoming a republic would not devalue the country

boro_exile Posted on 13/11/2008 16:02
Prince Charles on TV last night

i think the spanish monarchy are great, and so do most spaniards more importantly. i like having a monarchy, if we didn't, some other poor buggers would bear the brunt of a similar argument against them.

completely agree with what Old_Gregg said, spot on

Brick_Tamland Posted on 13/11/2008 16:04
Prince Charles on TV last night

I find most of the royals to be a total irrelvance. They're a weird anachronism and I hope they appreciate just how privileged they are, particulalry Andrew, Edward and other on the fringes of the Inner Circle. I'm not a revolutionary though so I'm keeping my flintlocks in a box on top of the wardrobe.

zorro_mfc Posted on 13/11/2008 16:05
Prince Charles on TV last night

Our monarch has ceded almost all real power nowadays anyway

the key word there is almost and ceded (ie they decided to not use them to keep the gravy train going), but the rest is the usual pro monarchy stock answer first off no they wouldn't as they are granted these residences as they are serving the nation these houses belong to the state not to them, for one.

It seems many in this country can't even consider the thought of getting rid as we will all some how descend into anarchy, as for the part about other will take their place yes they would but they would elected accountable and and this is the key removable.

I love these should charles be king debates that the media has, when the fact is we DON'T get a say either way.

The simple fact is you elect your mp to vote on your behalf on a bill that was drafted by a man elected to lead the nation that is then pased through parliament (although we can argue how democratic this is) where by the due democratic process is applied report stage first reading etc after this the now passed bill then has to be signed (by or more likely on behalf) of the one person who no one in the land had a say in how they got the job, and until that signature is there it means absolutely nothing.

Old_Gregg Posted on 13/11/2008 16:05
Prince Charles on TV last night

"becoming a republic would not devalue the country"

So throwing away thousands of years of tradition wouldn't devalue our country then? Having Tony Blair, Gordon Brown or David Cameron as our official Head of State wouldn't devalue our country?

It's no coincidence that some of the most stable countries in Europe are monarchies - UK, Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium, Norway, Denmark, Monaco. If Germany, Italy or Yugoslavia had been monarchies then the rise of fascism and the problems leading up to the Balkan conflict may well have been checked before they came to a head.

rivals_oldschool Posted on 13/11/2008 16:05
Prince Charles on TV last night

They haven’t ceded power at all. Symbolically they have but it's still all there written in law.

No wonder they're rich when they can still conveniently exempt themselves from inheritance tax.



zorro_mfc Posted on 13/11/2008 16:10
Prince Charles on TV last night

They haven’t ceded power at all. Symbolically they have but it's still all there written in law.

Exactly and the current queen has been brilliant in her desire to not rock the boat she is apolitical as you can get, Charle on the hand is far from apolitical the green loving charles who openly criticises the govt, what when it's his signature needed on that bill on a bill like the ban on fox hunting then what...

that is when the mask slips and the fun really begins remember though they have no power...

a_crab_must_die Posted on 13/11/2008 16:12
Prince Charles on TV last night

"So throwing away thousands of years of tradition wouldn't devalue our country then? "


spoken like a true self-appointed guardian of the status quo

Old_Gregg Posted on 13/11/2008 16:19
Prince Charles on TV last night

The simple fact is I cannot think of a single valid argument for scrapping our monarchy. If anyone can come up with one then I will genuinely consider it, and consider my opinion.

And jealousy of their money is not a valid argument; it's just like being jealous of the bloke over the road for having a bigger car! Childish in the extreme.

zorro_mfc Posted on 13/11/2008 16:19
Prince Charles on TV last night

If Germany, Italy or Yugoslavia had been monarchies then the rise of fascism may well have been checked before they came to a head.

Would this be the same monarchy that not only admired hitler and his regime but who was seen publicly shaking hands with hitler and acting as a nazi spy, yes good old Edward the traitor king, we hung Joyce for speaking on the radio why didn't we hang the former king edward, Georges brother for openly collaborating with the enemy.

Those who think this was not the case please click the link a picture that was hidden from the nation and it's subjects.


Link: Was this not treason then?

zorro_mfc Posted on 13/11/2008 16:24
Prince Charles on TV last night

The simple fact is I cannot think of a single valid argument for scrapping our monarchy. If anyone can come up with one then I will genuinely consider it, and consider my opinion.


So democracy is not a good enough reason then?

"government of the people, by the people, for the people." - Abraham Lincoln

scooby Posted on 13/11/2008 16:26
Prince Charles on TV last night

One of our prime ministers predecessors actually went and negotiated with him and shook his hand, shall we abolish the post of prime minister too?

mickbrown Posted on 13/11/2008 16:26
Prince Charles on TV last night

Devaluing?

Crock



of


Shytt.

zorro_mfc Posted on 13/11/2008 16:29
Prince Charles on TV last night

Scooby are you seriously comparing Neville Chamberlain's meeting to avoid war with edwards tour of a labour/death camp.




boro_exile Posted on 13/11/2008 16:32
Prince Charles on TV last night

"So throwing away thousands of years of tradition wouldn't devalue our country then? Having Tony Blair, Gordon Brown or David Cameron as our official Head of State wouldn't devalue our country?

It's no coincidence that some of the most stable countries in Europe are monarchies - UK, Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium, Norway, Denmark, Monaco. If Germany, Italy or Yugoslavia had been monarchies then the rise of fascism and the problems leading up to the Balkan conflict may well have been checked before they came to a head."

again spot on IMO

"So democracy is not a good enough reason then? "

zorro, we already have a democracy do we not? i dont understand that reasoning i'm afraid!

mickbrown Posted on 13/11/2008 16:33
Prince Charles on TV last night

"The simple fact is I cannot think of a single valid argument for scrapping our monarchy"

I can give you 88 million of them. Every single year.

zorro_mfc Posted on 13/11/2008 16:34
Prince Charles on TV last night

See above what happens when charles dislikes a bill that is ready for royal assent.

Like the fox hunting bill

How can any nation where the only person who can make or pass laws is neither elected nor accountable be democracy.


rivals_oldschool Posted on 13/11/2008 16:35
Prince Charles on TV last night

Then you have the whole 'conspiracy theory' of Rudolph Hess.

Who do you think he was flying off to meet in Scotland if not members of the Royal Family.

Even at the time it was noted how the capture of Hess was quickly silenced and barely mentioned again.

The_same_as_before Posted on 13/11/2008 16:41
Prince Charles on TV last night

I have tried my best to keep out of this one and have read non of it, but: I agree with Mick.

zorro_mfc Posted on 13/11/2008 16:44
Prince Charles on TV last night

Rivals I thought it was now accepted taht one of those men he was due to meet was The Duke Of Hamilton. The work of Blunt the oviet double agent after the war is interesting as well.

40 years ago if you had said Edward was a nazi sympathiser you would have been charged with treason but now de classified documents show different.


scooby Posted on 13/11/2008 16:50
Prince Charles on TV last night

If I'd said he was a sympathiser in 1968, people would have agreed which is why he was effectively disowned at the end of the war.

Anyway, I fail to see what that has to do with Prince Charles and his humanitarian work.

mickbrown Posted on 13/11/2008 16:52
Prince Charles on TV last night

"If Germany, Italy or Yugoslavia had been monarchies then the rise of fascism may well have been checked before they came to a head."

Italy - I give you Victor Emmanuel III king from 1900 - 46

Also - whilst I'm at it the Spanish monarchy really stamped down on Franco didn't it.

zorro_mfc Posted on 13/11/2008 16:53
Prince Charles on TV last night

Nothing, the debate is about the monarchym this was just a facet of it.

I will say again though what would he do with the bill to ban hunting with hounds?

scooby Posted on 13/11/2008 16:54
Prince Charles on TV last night

You want them to keep out of politics.
You want them to get involved with politics.

Pick one and stick to it, lads.

Critical_Bill Posted on 13/11/2008 16:56
Prince Charles on TV last night

"Charles Sax Coburg Gotha"

What is their surname? I though th Queen was Regina

zorro_mfc Posted on 13/11/2008 17:10
Prince Charles on TV last night

Bill, Windsor is the name of the castle and as hatred of all things german started to mount in this land they decided that using their real name of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha was not a good idea so eh voila, windsor it was and they became "english" overnight.

gawd bless em


zorro_mfc Posted on 13/11/2008 17:12
Prince Charles on TV last night

regina means queen
King is rex.

Anyone who watched the queen mother funeral wil have heard the horrendous list of her titles being read out empress of india and its dominions etc...

Old_Gregg Posted on 13/11/2008 17:14
Prince Charles on TV last night

I've still yet to see a convincing argument against our monarchy. Rambling conspiracies about alleged Nazi collaboration isn't really an argument.

And Zorro: re Fox hunting bill - his Mam didn't get involved so why would you imagine Charlie would be any different?

scooby Posted on 13/11/2008 17:16
Prince Charles on TV last night

My English ancestry does not go back as far as theirs, am I a foreigner now too?

zorro_mfc Posted on 13/11/2008 17:22
Prince Charles on TV last night

his Mam didn't get involved so why would you imagine Charlie would be any different?

this is the key he is outspoken about political events his mother as you say is not time will tell what happens. But this quandry is the day it all ends as we finally see where the real power still resides.

Alledged Nazi conspiracy there is nothing alledged about it as there are now de classified records that churchill wrote about edwards nazi links and his meeting with senior germans during the war.

as you obiously don't accept the view they are not democratic and have no place in a modern political structure despite the evidence to the contrary i will ask you then So why we should keep them?

scooby Posted on 13/11/2008 17:27
Prince Charles on TV last night

I would keep them because it keeps the head of state separate from our political leaders, because the royal family is intrinsically part of our heritage and because economically they bring more into the country than they cost.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 13/11/2008 17:31
Prince Charles on TV last night

'I have never been one of these people who seem to think it's "cool" to be anti-monarchy.'

So it's only a fashion to be a republican?

Think again, old fool.

Old_Gregg Posted on 13/11/2008 17:32
Prince Charles on TV last night

"as you obiously don't accept the view they are not democratic and have no place in a modern political structure despite the evidence to the contrary i will ask you then So why we should keep them?"

Well, I have seen no evidence to the contrary despite asking repeatedly! Surely the onus is on the people wanting to change a system that has worked perfectly well for thousands of years to provide reasons!

However, I'll still give you 3 main reasons:

1) Tradition - Why throw away part of our great countries history for the sake of knee-jerk modernisation?

2) Figurehead - The Queen is a symbol of respect for everyone in Britain and beyond, I would rather swear allegiance to the Queen than to an elected head of state like David Cameron.

3) Tourism - MickBrown has implied earlier that the Royals cost us £88m a year. They bring in much more than that in tourism to London every year.

Old_Gregg Posted on 13/11/2008 17:34
Prince Charles on TV last night

Scooby - cheers mate, while I was writing my huge post you summed up my exact 3 points perfectly!

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 13/11/2008 17:40
Prince Charles on TV last night

'1) Tradition - Why throw away part of our great countries history for the sake of knee-jerk modernisation?

Modernisation has been going on for some time. You may still live in a feudal scoiety, most of us have gradually moved to the capitalist system.

2) Figurehead - The Queen is a symbol of respect for everyone in Britain and beyond, I would rather swear allegiance to the Queen than to an elected head of state like David Cameron.

Everyone? Speak for yourself. Certainly not for me and countless others.

3) Tourism - MickBrown has implied earlier that the Royals cost us £88m a year. They bring in much more than that in tourism to London every year.

This old chestnut. How come Paris, without a monarchy, get more toursists? Tourists don't visit UK for the monarchy, it's a claim that I'm surprised is still being banded about.

zorro_mfc Posted on 13/11/2008 17:46
Prince Charles on TV last night

All valid points i can't really argue with but let's take the first one;

so we should keep it as it's tradition, not the most solid of things to base a political system on so was hanging, slavery, C**** fighting, and burning witches at one time.

2) Figurehead - This again is true but as i have tried to suggest in my other posts I have no qualms with the status quo my issue is with what is to follow i think after the queen dies we should scrap the monarchy this would involve a new political system and a newly revised elected house of lords (second chamber)

3) Tourism - as i mentioned the most visited city in europe is paris the tourists never see the queen anyway and the building will still be there.

I would however agree to a compromise based on the scandinavian model ( ie sweden norway denmark and belgium) of a low key monarchy with huge downgraded budget and a written costitution do you realise taht the selection of PM is based on convention and not on any codified rules.

Old_Gregg Posted on 13/11/2008 17:53
Prince Charles on TV last night

Paris gets more tourists does it? Think again mate. Top 10 tourist destinations 2006 (from Wikipedia)

1. London, UK - 15.64 million
2. Bangkok, Thailand - 10.35 million
2. Paris, France - 9.70 million

London gets as many tourists a year than Paris and Rome combined (15.73 million combined).
So, obviously there is some attraction to London, and it sure ain't the local C****ney sunny disposition.


Link: Tourism

Old_Gregg Posted on 13/11/2008 18:21
Prince Charles on TV last night

Good old facts eh - the end to 99% of all FMTTM debates!

Old_Gregg Posted on 13/11/2008 18:21
Prince Charles on TV last night

Good old facts eh - the end to 99% of all FMTTM debates!

zzzzz Posted on 13/11/2008 18:22
Prince Charles on TV last night

And all those people come just to see the queen. Bollox.

mickbrown Posted on 13/11/2008 18:28
Prince Charles on TV last night

I like the way you omitted the footnote to the table that had London as top.

Never mind, I'll C&P it for you.

"Cf. Other sources report Paris as the most visited city in the world with 30 million visitors."

Anyway - we all know that the Queen personally meets every arrival at Heathrow with a cup of Rosie, Gawd bless her.

zorro_mfc Posted on 13/11/2008 18:31
Prince Charles on TV last night

thanks Mick

Good old facts eh - the end to 99% of all FMTTM debates!

Old_Gregg Posted on 13/11/2008 19:12
Prince Charles on TV last night

Clutching at straws eh mick/zorro? 10/10 for trying anyway chaps! Let's clear this one up. The facts, as shown on that link show London to be the most visited city in the world by some margin. There is a footnote to indicate that an unverified source, not deemed worthy of inclusion on Wiki, has claimed Paris to get more visitors.

The only facts are what I previously told you, London is the most popular tourist destination in the world. Anyway, surely between the two of you, you can come up with a counter argument rather than splitting hairs with my argument! I'm not even asking for three points like I gave you, just one will do!

zorro_mfc Posted on 13/11/2008 19:14
Prince Charles on TV last night

"an unverified source" come on this is from wikipedia give me 10 mins and i could have it saying london is twinned with thornaby.

Old_Gregg Posted on 13/11/2008 19:23
Prince Charles on TV last night

Er that's my point mate, the Paris claim could be, and probably is, nonsense. The fact about London is from a reputable source on tourism and is therefore the one to believe. Shame Mick can't see this mind

Sitrep Posted on 13/11/2008 19:26
Prince Charles on TV last night

I’ve just read all these posts, Old_Gregg you could apply for Geordie citizenship,
“Your delusion knows no bounds”

Old_Gregg Posted on 13/11/2008 19:30
Prince Charles on TV last night

Sensible debate only here sitrep if you want to call names without contributing anything start a new thread mate

rivals_oldschool Posted on 13/11/2008 19:33
Prince Charles on TV last night

Then why aren't they self funded?

They don't need my tax, especially since they're extempt from paying any.


Sitrep Posted on 13/11/2008 19:35
Prince Charles on TV last night


And what’s sensible about this Sergeant Major?



It's no coincidence that some of the most stable countries in Europe are monarchies - UK, Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium, Norway, Denmark, Monaco. If Germany, Italy or Yugoslavia had been monarchies then the rise of fascism and the problems leading up to the Balkan conflict may well have been checked before they came to a head.

Old_Gregg Posted on 13/11/2008 19:42
Prince Charles on TV last night

I take it you disagree. Fair enough, that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. Maybe you could explain what you disagree with rather than just call names because someones opinion differs from yours? I clearly disagree with a few posters on here like Mick and zorro but none of us have needed to resort to name calling

Tommy_Trinder Posted on 13/11/2008 19:57
Prince Charles on TV last night

I agree with original thread poster.

Not really surprised at the anti-monarchy morons posting on it, i wouldn't expect anything else from this forum anyway,

God save the Queen!

scooby Posted on 13/11/2008 19:59
Prince Charles on TV last night

Can I just say that if the table above was published in, say, the encyclopaedia britannica, there'd be no disdain towards its contents. Apparently because wikipedia can be edited, that somehow makes it invalid.

Well you've missed the point. Wikipedia is a reasonable source of information because it has verifiable references and has rules on not presenting unverifiable data as fact and, most importantly of all, because it CAN be edited under peer review. The people who compile the popular entries on wikipedia are zealots when it comes to the integrity and presentation of information and that is exactly WHY they have added that footnote in the way they have.

Yes, you may edit it, but be assured that someone who spends an inordinate amount of time compiling it will reverse the edits if you cannot provide verifiable citations.

Sitrep Posted on 13/11/2008 20:05
Prince Charles on TV last night

Well ok then,

the royalty/monarchy was the reason for the Balkan conflict and ultimately the Great War.
The Balkans had for hundreds of years been fought over by different Royal families, millions lost their lives, the only upside was that Russia Germany and Austria all done away with royalty
That conflict ultimately brought about the rise of Fascism and communism
In short blame it on the Royals

mickbrown Posted on 13/11/2008 20:06
Prince Charles on TV last night

Ok lets go with your figures then. London might beat Paris but the total number of tourists that visit France dwarves those that visit Britain.

So a country without a monarchy far outstrips our tourist earnings. So your arguement doesn't hold water.

scooby Posted on 13/11/2008 20:18
Prince Charles on TV last night

Then again you could query why a larger proportion of our tourists come to visit the capital of our country than do in france.

mickbrown Posted on 13/11/2008 20:21
Prince Charles on TV last night

Or you could look at the income and we're quite clearly getting P***ed on by a country that chopped their monarchy's heads off

scooby Posted on 13/11/2008 20:33
Prince Charles on TV last night

So people are staying away because we have a monarchy?

Old_Gregg Posted on 13/11/2008 20:54
Prince Charles on TV last night

Mick just give it up mate. You can't just change your argument now. So France in total gets more tourists than Britain? Wow, it's 2-3 times the size of Britain - hardly a huge shock is it! The fact is you tried to argue that Paris got more tourists than London so monarchy meant less tourists. Now the opposite has been shown to be true, and London proved to get more tourists, surely you must concede this shows our monarchy has a positive effect on tourism?

mickbrown Posted on 14/11/2008 09:00
Prince Charles on TV last night

I'm not changing my arguement. I'm using your figures to shoot down your own theory.

You said the monarchy bring in tourists so how come there are five countries with more tourists? Only one of those has a monarchy.

You want to quibble over size of countries then Italy is pretty comparable to us, no monarchy, considerably more tourists. Your explanation please?

nealg Posted on 14/11/2008 09:20
Prince Charles on TV last night

The Tower of London brings in tourists, so does Nottingham Castle and Karl Marx grave. We dont need to carry on hanging people,shoot bows and arrows at the Sherrif of Nottingham or be alive to bring in tourists.

A dead monarchy might look interesting in a glass case in the science museum.

Old_Gregg Posted on 14/11/2008 09:42
Prince Charles on TV last night

So now you have been proved wrong over France, we are moving to Italy then! OK, time to shoot this argument down too.

You say Italy is comparable in size to UK. It's not, it's 24% larger (301318 sq km to 242900 sq km). Despite being 24% larger, Italy makes only 14% more money from tourists ($42.7 billion to $37.6 billion in 2007).

Can you explain this? Or would you like to pick another country and try again - I'm here all day (got nothing better to do at work!)

nealg Posted on 14/11/2008 09:44
Prince Charles on TV last night

Old_Gregg = a crusty old baguette?

zoec Posted on 14/11/2008 09:47
Prince Charles on TV last night

The fact that tourism is the only argument being put forward to keep the monarchy speaks for itself. Maybe if the Queen knew she was Britain's answer to Mickey Mouse, she'd be slightly less scathing about the "common man".

scooby Posted on 14/11/2008 09:49
Prince Charles on TV last night

Hmmmm.... looks like it's all gone wrong, Mick!

How about Lichtenstein?

Old_Gregg Posted on 14/11/2008 10:15
Prince Charles on TV last night

Typical blinkered anti-royal comment there zoec

1) Tourism isn't the only argument as you will see if you read this thread
2) What evidence do you have to suggest the Queen has ever been "scathing about the common man"?

scooby Posted on 14/11/2008 10:17
Prince Charles on TV last night

So we've gone from rubbish stats to just using 'lies' to argue this one!

zoec Posted on 14/11/2008 10:24
Prince Charles on TV last night

Reports in newspapers, Old_Gregg - and I'm the first to admit that they may be (probably are) exaggerated. I'm not actually pro-Republican, it just irritates me that I'm supposed to fawn over a family that hasn't done anything to deserve it. The two royals I have met back up my opinion.

scooby Posted on 14/11/2008 10:29
Prince Charles on TV last night

So which report has she ever been scathing about the "common man", exaggerated or otherwise? That's a lie, zoec. It makes it harder to take your opinion on who you met seriously when you do that.

mickbrown Posted on 14/11/2008 10:32
Prince Charles on TV last night

Old_Gregg - your data is flawed anyway.

A little digging and et voila

"Concerning the list from Euromonitor, it is completely stupid because they measure foreign tourists within the formal administrative borders of cities (or whatever they thought was a city). So for instance in the case of London they counted all the foreign tourists who stayed overnight in the entire Greater London, whereas in the case of Paris they only counted the foreign tourists who stayed overnight in accomodations in the City of Paris proper, and not in the entire Greater Paris, which excludes all the hotels located beyond the administrative border of the City of Paris, such as La Défense or Disneyland Resort Paris where so many hotels are located. So if you stay in a hotel at La Défense, you're not counted by Euromonitor as a foreign tourist to Paris.

The same problem happens in all cities whose central administrative municipality is small. This wouldn't be too much of a problem in Canada where municipalities were massively merged in recent years, but for example in LA if you stay in hotels in Beverly Hills or Santa Monica you're not counted by Euromonitor as a tourist to LA, which is why LA ranks so low (same with SF and some other cities), so keep this in mind.

Concerning Paris, I have figures for Greater Paris: in 2006 there were 30 million foreign tourists in Greater Paris (source here), a figure slightly rising every year. This is twice more than the 15.6 million tourists recorded by Euromonitor in Greater London. It's beyond me that the Greater Paris authorities in charge of tourism and economic promotion don't send a letter to Euromonitor."

Vive la Republique.

zoec Posted on 14/11/2008 10:32
Prince Charles on TV last night

Not a lie from me, scooby. Maybe from the person who originated the report. It was about Tony and Cherie Blair (I know, I know.....) and about the family of one of William's girlfriends.

zaphod Posted on 14/11/2008 10:34
Prince Charles on TV last night

The political argument in favour of the constitutional monarchy is that it provides stability and a check on potential dictators. The Queen as Head of State & Head of the Armed Forces has the power to intervene against coups. That's a good reason why there aren't any. The Queen doesn't intervene in politics because politicians know the democratic ground rules & stick to them. That would be worth 88 million quid a year on its own, but in fact the civil list was a deal done by George III in return for the monarchy surrendering big landholdings to the state. The return on those estates far exceeds 88 million quid, so the taxpayer is in profit.

The Spanish monarchy was abolished in 1931 by the Republicans & the Civil War followed in 1936. The re-establishment of a constitutional monarchy enabled Juan Carlos to prevent an anti-democratic coup.

zorro_mfc Posted on 14/11/2008 10:39
Prince Charles on TV last night

Zaphod you are right about the status quo but what about the situation I explained above with charles then if he was asked to sign a bill he was vehemently opposed to like the hunting with hounds bill... or a an bill on GM crops etc.


zorro_mfc Posted on 14/11/2008 10:41
Prince Charles on TV last night

As for the view that this country would somehow mirror pre war spain without a monarch i frankly absurd there are too many supra national bodies Nato and the EU that rely on us to let that happen.

But this shows my argument that the debate has been poisoned to one of scaremongering tactics of monarch or anarchic civil war... which is clealry not the case.

scooby Posted on 14/11/2008 10:42
Prince Charles on TV last night

Charles signs bills?

zorro_mfc Posted on 14/11/2008 10:45
Prince Charles on TV last night

the monarch does (or rather they are signed on their bahalf) ie royal assent without which no bill can become law. see above for more.


zaphod Posted on 14/11/2008 10:47
Prince Charles on TV last night

zorro, I'm not arguing that the UK would be like Spain in the 1930s. I'm putting down the claim that the monarchy didn't prevent the Spanish Civil War. It had been abolished years before.

The Queen has signed Acts before that she didn't like. Scottish devolution, for one.

red_shamrock Posted on 14/11/2008 10:50
Prince Charles on TV last night

A society with kings and Queens and Princes etc sounds like a fairy tale.
Envy of the world lol.

Old_Gregg Posted on 14/11/2008 10:50
Prince Charles on TV last night

Zorro - I agree it is taking it too far to suggest that scrapping the monarchy would lead to a civil war, but over 140 posts now and still not a single valid reason for abolishing the monarchy; whereas there have been a few reasons for keeping it.

There must be a counter argument, I have said I am open minded and willing to consider other points of view, but so far I have yet to see anything other than get rid because they are old fashioned. Surely abandoning something old fashioned for no other reason is ludicrous?

zoec Posted on 14/11/2008 10:53
Prince Charles on TV last night

Look at what the country got the last time the monarchy was abolished. You'd save a fortune not having to buy Christmas presents, though.

mickbrown Posted on 14/11/2008 10:54
Prince Charles on TV last night

So having an hereditary head of state makes sense to you then?

red_shamrock Posted on 14/11/2008 10:56
Prince Charles on TV last night

What is the purpose of the Royal Family?

littlejimmy Posted on 14/11/2008 11:00
Prince Charles on TV last night

To keep the oiks in their place.

red_shamrock Posted on 14/11/2008 11:04
Prince Charles on TV last night

Oiks I watch BBC 2 ya know.

Bandy Posted on 14/11/2008 11:04
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if the monarchy is so popular amongst foreigners and they do wonders for tourism how come our economy is the S***s at the moment?

red_shamrock Posted on 14/11/2008 11:07
Prince Charles on TV last night

Time to disband it and put Terry Venables in temporary charge.

Old_Gregg Posted on 14/11/2008 11:12
Prince Charles on TV last night

"if the monarchy is so popular amongst foreigners and they do wonders for tourism how come our economy is the S***s at the moment?"

Because of mistakes made by financial leaders and our government/PM. The same PM that some people would prefer to see as our head of state than the Queen!