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Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 09:07
Ball Retention

Why is everyone banging on about it, it's about sticking the ball in the back of the net and keeping it out at the other end. I think people listen to Andy Gray a bit too much.

shaved_melon Posted on 29/10/2008 09:09
Ball Retention

true but you cant stick it in the back of the net if you havent got it

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 09:12
Ball Retention

Yes, you can.

grantus Posted on 29/10/2008 09:15
Ball Retention

It's easier to score whilst in possession of the ball.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 09:17
Ball Retention

True but keeping possession for the sake of keeping possession, what's the point. We've dominated many games this season, not scored and ended up losing. People seem to think they are John Motson around here.

grantus Posted on 29/10/2008 09:21
Ball Retention

We've also been ahead but have been unable to keep hold of the ball, invited pressure and lost our lead late on.

In fact that could be applied to Liverpool, Portsmouth, Blackburn.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 09:23
Ball Retention

Liverpool?

They scored a deflection and a wonder goal. Mido should have put a tackle in.
Blackburn scored from a corner. We should have attacked the ball better.

There are always moments ina game where you say "we should have done this or that". You can't change it, get on with it.

SirHumptyofDumpty Posted on 29/10/2008 09:59
Ball Retention

It's blatantly obvious the reason we've been playing so badly lately is because our midfield has been so bad. Firstly at keeping the ball and secondly at making an impact on the game when they had the ball.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 10:00
Ball Retention

Have we been playing that badly though or have we just not been taking our chances and putting pressure on ourselves?

sasboro1 Posted on 29/10/2008 10:03
Ball Retention

our midfield and defenders cant pass the ball very good and our strikers cant hold the ball up. Southgate is going for fast pacey football so no room for passing it about. Too much long ball too.

You could see at blackburn that their midfield looked far more comfortable passing it about. With the boro midfield the players just wants rid of the ball ASAP as if it is on a time bomb

woodymfc Posted on 29/10/2008 10:03
Ball Retention

Its the latter Lisbo, some people can't even play football on here, never mind try to discuss tactics

Unless they come from Big Billingham of course

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 10:07
Ball Retention

Sas

West Brom we misssed chances and lost
Sunderland we missed a penalty and lost.
Wigan we won
Chelsea we were gash, tactics and team selection all wrong.
Blackburn had an extra man in midfield, it's incredibly difficult to retain possession when the opposition have an extra man.

Spot on woody.

grantus Posted on 29/10/2008 10:07
Ball Retention

If we kept hold of the ball better, we'd have taken more points than 1 from them games.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 10:09
Ball Retention

grantus, we wouldn't. If we'd have taken our chances and then kept the ball then yes but we didn't, we fluffed our chances and then confidence ebbed away.

sasboro1 Posted on 29/10/2008 10:11
Ball Retention

"Blackburn had an extra man in midfield, it's incredibly difficult to retain possession when the opposition have an extra man."

How come they had 12 men on the pitch?

too many games this season our midfield has faded as we have no one who looks comfortable on the ball. GON,Digard and shawky just want rid of the ball as soon as they get it.

woodymfc Posted on 29/10/2008 10:11
Ball Retention

Roseberry Juniors

Furness cup champions 1967 - 8

We always seemed to lose the ball in those days but we had a lad up front who couldn't miss every time the ball came to him.

He was Ginger aswell


SirHumptyofDumpty Posted on 29/10/2008 10:12
Ball Retention

"Its the latter Lisbo, some people can't even play football on here"

Hit me where it hurts why don't ya [:(]

I was referring to Chelsea and Blackburn specifically anyway.

bernies_cigs Posted on 29/10/2008 10:12
Ball Retention

i thought this thread was going to be about the cold weather

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 10:12
Ball Retention

Also, we were away from home so you expect to surrender possession, very few teams can dictate games away from home. The best I have seen is Liverpools job on Chelsea at the weekend but that was only possible because they actually took the lead.

woodymfc Posted on 29/10/2008 10:16
Ball Retention

Er Sorry there Sir Humpty of

woodymfc Posted on 29/10/2008 10:17
Ball Retention

dumpty

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 10:18
Ball Retention

I hope you're not frolicking with the lounge luvlys again, woody.

grantus Posted on 29/10/2008 10:20
Ball Retention

If we'd have retained the ball better than we did once we'd taken the lead in those games, we wouldn't have invited the pressure onto ourselves that we did.

If you can't see that, then you know even less than I gave you credit for.

Possession doesn't equate to goals, neither does chances, but both are desirable in the quest for them.

somethingtodowithdeath Posted on 29/10/2008 10:23
Ball Retention

Lisbon, I could not disagree with you more, the very essence of football is the ability to retain the ball and pass and move, this is because it takes savvy and skill. Its only when you can retain possession that you can then take the next step which is to progress to the oppositions 18 yrd box with the ball.We can do neither at present.

How can young players gain experience,confidence and improve if the do not recieve the ball ?

woodymfc Posted on 29/10/2008 10:25
Ball Retention

No not today chum, I see we have a big one on the line

So what came first grantus, The Chicken or the Egg ??

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 10:25
Ball Retention

Goals can be helped to be avoided by keeping the ball but it's not that simple really is it. You are playing against good players that are trying to get the ball back from you, it's not your divine right to keep hold of possession.

Against Liverpool we lost Andrew Taylor and had to play Hoyte at left back, Carraghers goal at Liverpool was a lucky deflection Gerrards a wonder strike. Saying keep the ball is just too simple, a bit like your last post. Liverpool had 2 shots and scored 2 goals.

Against Portsmouth we had Digard off the pitch when they scored their equaliser. Nothing to do with not being able to keep possession, just unfortunate that we couldn't reorganise quickly enough.

Blackburns goal came because Robinson came up and we failed to organise ourselves, nothing to do with keeping possession.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 10:28
Ball Retention

Somethingtodowithdeath, how did Wimbledon win the FA cup?

sasboro1 Posted on 29/10/2008 10:29
Ball Retention

chelseas 5 goals were nothing to do with keeping possession and the fact we couldnt get the ball off them.

grantus Posted on 29/10/2008 10:30
Ball Retention

How did Brazil win the World CUp more than anyone else?

Apply that to Real Madrid in the Champions League and Manchester United in the Premiership.

It wasn't through lack of possession.

Stop being dozy.

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 29/10/2008 10:31
Ball Retention

pass and move its the liverpool groove.
what southgate should do is come up with some sort of rap. I might write one and send it off to him.

Pass the ball don't hoof it long.
Take control it's the middlesbrough song.
Gary O'neill, G-G-Gary O'neill.
check it out! Ch-Ch-Check it out!!!!

anyway i think something we can all agree on is that having the ball is good and not having the ball is bad.

woodymfc Posted on 29/10/2008 10:33
Hair Retention

I think we are f-cked Lisbon [:D]

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 10:33
Ball Retention

Brazil, Real Madrid and Man Utd all had players that could score goals from anywhere, any angle. Not just because they could pass the ball. West Brom can keep the ball, did you watch them last night? How did they get on?

somethingtodowithdeath Posted on 29/10/2008 10:35
Ball Retention

Lisbon, I'm not going to discuss this any further, if you're bored discuss something else.

Sorry,but you sound dumb and you're not, has someone logged on under your username ?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 10:35
Ball Retention

Woody, ride the storm, these chumps are walking themselves down a blind alley.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 10:35
Ball Retention

See woody, they're resulting to personal insults because they're wrong. Dozy, dumb, simple, etc.

Bandy Posted on 29/10/2008 10:36
Ball Retention

Lisbo, give your head a shake fella. I thought you knew the game. Posession is nine tenths of the law, the other tenth is sticking it in the net.

Never give the ball away. I would personally fine my players if they gave the ball away cheaply more than 3 times per game.

woodymfc Posted on 29/10/2008 10:37
Water Retention

Aye now come on fella's let's get real here.

You can keep the ball as long as you can but if you have not got any one to bang the ball in the back of the net it's a pointless game of ball retention.

West Brom got beat, and apparently played some really nice pussy foot passing football for long periods

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 10:37
Ball Retention

somethingtodowithdeath, the point is that if we'd have taken our chances against Sunderland, Stoke, West Brom, Blackburn, etc. we'd have won each game comfortably but we didn't. It wasn't cos we didn't keep the ball, it was because we didn't take our chances and invited pressure on ourselves.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 10:39
Ball Retention

Spot on woody. Wimbledon didn't pass the ball, they just bullied teams and belted it up the pitch. Keeping the ball is not a prerequisite to winning although it is the most attractive way of doing it. FACT.

sasboro1 Posted on 29/10/2008 10:40
Ball Retention

well if we want to play like wimbledon then lets sign the players to play that style of football.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 10:41
Ball Retention

Sas in 'missing the point of the post' shocker!

Bandy Posted on 29/10/2008 10:41
Ball Retention

woody. If you havent got anyone to stick the ball in the net I'd like to point out that it is advantageous to keep the ball so to stop the other team scoring. End result........a draw. better than a defeat

grantus Posted on 29/10/2008 10:42
Ball Retention

You invite pressure by surrendering possession.

woodymfc Posted on 29/10/2008 10:43
Ball Retention

In reality and disappointing like every season that PASSES we don't take our chances or get an unlucky decision like Tuncay's perfect goal on Satda

We should have 20 to 24 points


And who are you calling dozy big nose ?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 10:44
Ball Retention

We didn't surrender possession against West Brom, Blackburn, Sunderland, etc. We didn't take our chances and got hit by daft goals.

Against Blackburn I thought we did ok in terms of possession and only Wheaters hoofs and one Aliadiere absolute howler were the times I shouted at them.

sasboro1 Posted on 29/10/2008 10:45
Ball Retention

ah got yourself in the corner then [;)]

all the good teams pass the ball around well and retain possession. retaining possession doesnt mean GON passing 5 yards sideways to Shawky who then passes it back to the defender who then plays it across the defence then someone hoofs it up field.
If you retain possession well in game after game then more than likely you will win more games.

you might win the odd game with out retaining possession but over the season you wont win that many.

you can see why chelsea are such a good team as they rarely give the ball away and can play the ball about and wait to get that goal scoring chance.

weith boro it just involves passing to downing to run upfield and chuck in a cross or hoof it up field from defence.

problem is you need to spend big money to get midfielders who can pass it about and retain possession

Bandy Posted on 29/10/2008 10:46
Ball Retention

simple 5 yard passes are the way forward and you try to work your route to goal. However, what we dont do well is SHOOT

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 10:48
Ball Retention

THANKYOU BANDY! At last, someone with a bit of sense.

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 29/10/2008 10:49
Ball Retention

its all about slow slow slow QUICK QUICK QUICK!
when England are playing confident and assured under capello count how many touches they take.

Bandy Posted on 29/10/2008 10:50
Ball Retention

Over the course of a season look back at all goals scored by top teams. Not even half are well crafted goals. Most of them are speculative efforts that deflect, the keeper parries or it goes in off someones nob end.

WE DONT SHOOT ENOUGH

Shoot from anywhere.

sasboro1 Posted on 29/10/2008 10:52
Ball Retention

its not just about the passing it is about the 1st touch control. watching chelsea they either pass it with their first touch or get it under control or control it in their stride. With the boro players it takes 2 touches atleast, and sometime the ball is played behind the player. or the player has to stop running to control the ball

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 10:52
Ball Retention

I'll just ignore that last post sas as There are different styles involved in football, some involve passing the ball about, some long ball, some stifling the opposition and counter attacking. The best teams have the best players and the fans demand that they play passing football.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 10:53
Ball Retention

I agree sheriff, that's how I like to play the game, catch the opposition unawares so they don't have time to set themselves. We don't take enough quick free kicks or throw-ins and we don't have as much guile as we should have.

woodymfc Posted on 29/10/2008 10:54
Ball Retention

Ah welcome the cavalry has arrived


Alway's lurved u bandy boy [;)]


I think we are eventually getting somewhere here

Bandy Posted on 29/10/2008 10:54
Ball Retention

when was the last time we crafted a free kick and not just took a hopeful welly at someones midrift

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 10:57
Ball Retention

See, we're all starting to see it now! There's more to winning a football match than just keeping the ball. We've not taken our chances, we've not had enough guile in the side, our midfielders haven't got forward enough or had enough shots and we've also been very unlucky! It's a bit too easy to just say we should have kept possession and we would have won. The game is about being quicker than the opposition, physically and mentally and taking your chances.

sasboro1 Posted on 29/10/2008 10:57
Ball Retention

"I'll just ignore that last post sas"

yeah go ahead cos it picks holes in your arguement. funny how chelsea score so many goals without having a top striker in the team. maybe it is because they can retain possession, pass the ball round well,control it and wait for a goal scoring opportunity.

I'm sure brazil like to keep possession and never done them any harm. Same for arsenal and manutd who can retain possession.

I used to think lisbon knew his stuff about football but he doesnt seem to afterall.

"when was the last time we crafted a free kick and not just took a hopeful welly at someones midrift"

Stoke and man city last season

when you watch boro all the players are just running about and struggling to control the ball and seem as if they dont want the ball.

woodymfc Posted on 29/10/2008 10:58
Ball Retention

Go on my san Bandy, get stuck in there




*sit's back, takes off tin helmet and takes a breather*

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 11:01
Ball Retention

Sas, that referred to your previous post, you sneaked that one in whilst I was replying to your last post.

Chelsea don't have a top striker in their team???

Against Stoke and Man City we didn't craft those gaols, sas.

sasboro1 Posted on 29/10/2008 11:03
Ball Retention

"Chelsea don't have a top striker in their team???"

so who was the top striker against us?

you disappoint me Lisbon, it is pretty obvious the better your team is at retaining possession the more likely you will win. isnt this the problem england have at international level with other teams being able to retain possession but we just play fast football and lose the ball easily?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 11:06
Ball Retention

Sas, you have a very blinkered view on the game, you need to open yourself up to new ideas and not just listen to what John Motson is telling you.

Anelka, Kalou and Malouda are all top players. Their strength is in midfield thougth with Lampard, Deco, Essien, etc. and they take the pressure of the strikers because they can all score goals.

Sas, if you retain possession you may be more likely to win but that is not the only way to win and also not Boro's main failing. Our main failing is taking our chances.

woodymfc Posted on 29/10/2008 11:08
Ball Retention

Sas, you are obviously into samba dancing and you are supporting the wrong team fella.

Get yourself on here and book your flight to Sua Paulo www.britishairways.com

From there it's about 30 mile down the road to Santos where you will be personally greeted by TLF who sparked up the style of play at the riverside that you once again yearn for.
He ain't here anymore and that style game play is long way from our reach considering the squad we currently have



*Helmet back on*


Dink

sasboro1 Posted on 29/10/2008 11:12
Ball Retention

Do you not think that those chelsea midfield players have the ability to retain possession? eg control the ball with the first touch, pass it with first touch and play a quality pinpoint pass. where as with teams like boro we struggle to do that? do you not see the link with how manutd and chelsea retain possession and the rest of the league cant?

"Sas, if you retain possession you may be more likely to win but that is not the only way to win and also not Boro's main failing. Our main failing is taking our chances."

every team doesnt take every chance they have. for example blackburn had chances on saturday just like us. i remember west brom having quite a few chances against us, i remember wigan having quite a few chances.

if you retain possession then you give the opposition less time on the ball and you can play more in their own half.

Fair enough Lisbon if you want us to play percentage route one football but i dont think many fans will like that and that tactics is a bit dated.

When spain won the euros they retained the ball well and looked comfortable on the ball

woodymfc, juninho could dribble but he was terrible at retaining the ball. maybe one reason why he never ended up at a top side

Sleaford Posted on 29/10/2008 11:13
Ball Retention

And our utterly, utterly S*** throw ins and freekicks, which drive me mad. In the last ten minutes against Blackburn we lost the ball about five times from just throwing the ball hopefully onto the pitch, Wheater and Ali seemed to be the main culprits. Whilst I sort of agree with Lisbon, repeatedly giving away possesion in your defensive third whilst defending a one goal lead is stupid.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 11:13
Ball Retention

Of course they do, sas, as I said previously. Did Greeces players that won the European Championship retain the ball better than every other team in that tournament?

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 29/10/2008 11:14
Ball Retention

i think it was more last season where we weren't taking our chances. when we had a midfield but no attack.
Blackburn we only missed one decent chance and put 2 away.
now we've got an attack but no midfield. and we can't pass.
we're a team set up for mong ball and counter.

that was meant to say long ball, but I like the typo so i've left it.

woodymfc Posted on 29/10/2008 11:16
Ball Retention

Look's like your mates have done a runner sas



Who is in a corner now fella [:D]

sasboro1 Posted on 29/10/2008 11:18
Ball Retention

Sorry you lost me there?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 11:18
Ball Retention

Chelseas full backs bomb on, ours don't. Chelsea have Frank Lampard, we have Didier Digard.

sasboro1 Posted on 29/10/2008 11:19
Ball Retention

maybe they can bomb on cos they are comfortable on the ball and wont give the ball away

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 11:21
Ball Retention

Their are many reasons why they can bomb on, mostly because their system and personnel allow it.

woodymfc Posted on 29/10/2008 11:25
Ball Retention

Does getting beat 5-0 at home by them last week explain anything Sas

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 11:26
Ball Retention

Sas, you've lost, give it up. You're just making yourself look daft. Even grantus the cowardly lion has desserted you.

sasboro1 Posted on 29/10/2008 11:27
Ball Retention

sorry you still lost me. losing 5-0 to a side that retains possession and never allowed us to get the ball tells you something

confidence_in_water Posted on 29/10/2008 11:29
Ball Retention

I can see both points of the argument here. Basically we need to retain possession but need to be constructive with it too by having a shot at the end of spell of possession. For example we lose the ball by playing a bad pass and therefore lose the opportunity to be attacking and shoot, on the other hand Chelsea may lose the ball by having a shot that may actually be a screamer of a goal (Belletti against us) or the goal may be scrappy as (Kalou's 1st against us).
On the whole, Boro don't shoot enough, but we dont retain possession and use the ball well enough to get in the positions to shoot.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 11:32
Ball Retention

confidenceinwater is bang on, it is all of those things but our passing will improve with confidence and our confidence will improve with scoring goals!

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 29/10/2008 11:33
Ball Retention

What an odd thread.

The best teams keep the ball better because they pass it better.

The best players keep the ball better because they pass it better.

Have I missed something?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 11:34
Ball Retention

Keep up, Jonny! Scoring goals is the problem, not ball retention.

onthemap Posted on 29/10/2008 11:35
Ball Retention

We're now a poor side, stop complicating things, grow a pair and face facts.

woodymfc Posted on 29/10/2008 11:35
Ball Retention

Sas! lost is the word you have used several times, just give up son and save your face before i use name calling Grantus tactics on you.


Best team in England ? totally outplays mediocre Boro side and hammers them with ease popping the ball all over the pitch BECAUSE they can! and we can't

end of thread

Fook offski

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 11:36
Ball Retention

Woody.[:D]

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 29/10/2008 11:38
Ball Retention

Gotcha Lisbon, I only read the last few posts!

I do think they are one and the same though - the teams that score the most goals pass the ball better.

Thats why we struggle at home sometimes (most times actually) when playing teams who defend deeply - it nullifies our pace and we dont have the players who can pass and move the ball well enough to break teams down.

sasboro1 Posted on 29/10/2008 11:39
Ball Retention

woodymfc, what you on about? your wil give yourself a heart attack.

it is common sense that the best teams retain the ball better, that is what any top foreign manager aims for.

SirHumptyofDumpty Posted on 29/10/2008 11:40
Ball Retention

I'd agree we don't shoot enough, but that's not really the point of the discussion. It's no coincidence that those that have more possesion, usually have the ball in the opposition territory more often, therefore having the option to shoot. It's not rocket science.

I can't see the arguement against keeping the ball. As a centre midfield you don't give the ball away, rule number one. That's how i played the game anyway.

onthemap Posted on 29/10/2008 11:41
Ball Retention

West Brom aren't the best team in England!

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 11:41
Ball Retention

Sas, have you started a thread of your own within my thread?

grantus Posted on 29/10/2008 11:43
Ball Retention

Scoring goals is the problem?

Aye, if only we buried those 6 golden chances against Chelsea.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 11:44
Ball Retention

Sorry, I should have spelt it out for you grantus, I actually gave you more credit than you were due. Scoring goals is our MAIN problem.

woodymfc Posted on 29/10/2008 11:44
Ball Retention

I think you need to do a spell check there Sas and calm down fella


Why a foreign manager
CAN YOU READ ?
We can't do what they do, THAT"S WHY WE ARE ALWAYS HOVERING AROUND MID TABLE IF NOT LOWER

AVERAGE SIDE

NEED TO BE MORE CLINICAL IN FRONT OF GOAL !!!!!


UNDERSTANDY ????????

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 11:46
Ball Retention

Humpty, that is how I played the game aswell but it's not the only way to play the game. Wimbledon, Greece, Stoke, etc. none of those teams played possession football but have still been successful in their own right.

sasboro1 Posted on 29/10/2008 11:47
Ball Retention

ah, losin the argment an you deside to bring spellin into it

Why a foreign manager? because they are the best managers in the world and in the premier league. Even fergie gets his team to retain possession and play in the oppositions half.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 11:49
Ball Retention

Even Fergie? Are you backward? Ferguson is at the biggest football club in the world, he hardly has to work with ex-Mackem full backs and Egyptian numptys in his midfield does he.

SirHumptyofDumpty Posted on 29/10/2008 11:50
Ball Retention

As a matter of interest do you guys think we create enough chances to win games?

otto62 Posted on 29/10/2008 11:50
Ball Retention

Best ball retention technique?






Don't cheat on your wife.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 11:51
Ball Retention

Some games yes, some games no. We did against Stoke, Portsmouth, West Brom, Liverpool, Blackburn, etc.

woodymfc Posted on 29/10/2008 11:52
Ball Retention

Sas Lad [:D]


Are you a stubborn Sagitarian by any chance

sasboro1 Posted on 29/10/2008 11:52
Ball Retention

every team misses chances not just boro.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 11:53
Ball Retention

SAS, how do you come up with these GEMS!

otto62 Posted on 29/10/2008 11:56
Ball Retention

Interesting that when other teams miss chances they are unlucky, but when Boro miss chances it's because the players are rubbish or the manager is not up to the job.

grantus Posted on 29/10/2008 11:56
Ball Retention

Can't believe this nonsense is still going on.

If you cannot keep the ball, then you will never amount to much.

athleticism, speed, composure, strength, determination, stamina, these are all very good.

But without technique, without the ability to control the ball, to pass the ball, to play as a team, then you will never be a great team.

For every exception like Wimbledon and Greece, the evidence is in the ongoing success of the Liverpools and the Brazils.

Of course you need to convert chances, you also need to creat chances and prevent the opposition from creating chances too.

One thing that is key to those things is having control of the ball, keeping the ball, retaining possession of the ball.

Everything else on here is a load of old pony.

woodymfc Posted on 29/10/2008 11:56
Ball Retention

I'm off for my daily walk...............




FFS Sas tut tut tut

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 11:57
Ball Retention

It's not missing chances, it's missing glorious chances consistently. That includes penalties.

sasboro1 Posted on 29/10/2008 11:59
Ball Retention

"SAS, how do you come up with these GEMS!"

Well people on here seem to think we are the only team to miss chances and we should be scoring at every opportunity. It never works like that every team misses chances. Chelsea would have beat us 10-0 if that was the case. Since when has any team scored from all their chances?

it is not like playing on fifa 08 in ps3 you know

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 11:59
Ball Retention

grantus, I'm not saying that a team devoid of being able to keep the ball can rule the world, my point is that winning is not solely reliant upon retaining possession. There are so many other factors which come into play and the most important of these is being able to convert your chacnes when they copme along.

You have gone to the extreme end to suit your argument but your argument is your own argument. We all know you need to be able to control and pass the ball to play football, if that is the depth of your football knowledge then I suggets you buy some DVD's or read a few books.

woodymfc Posted on 29/10/2008 12:00
Ball Retention

and no name calling grantus





Bye and good luck tonight with those Brazil style tactics

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 12:01
Ball Retention

Sas the facts are there that in the last 2 seasons we have scored more then 2 goals in a game on only 1 occassion. Probably the poorest goalscoring record in the Premiership barring the relegated teams.

otto62 Posted on 29/10/2008 12:03
Ball Retention

Amazing how we manage to finish midtable every season isn't it?

sasboro1 Posted on 29/10/2008 12:10
Ball Retention

maybe we create less chances than other teams. would be interested to know how many chances we created in a season and what % we scored from compared to other teams.

Dont forget last season we had no strikers for 6 months of the season.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 12:11
Ball Retention

I won't forget, that was a point I made earlier on another thread that once we lost Yakubu and Viduka we have hardly scored. We need Alves and TUncay to step up to the plate.

SirHumptyofDumpty Posted on 29/10/2008 12:11
Ball Retention

"grantus, I'm not saying that a team devoid of being able to keep the ball can rule the world, my point is that winning is not solely reliant upon retaining possession. There are so many other factors which come into play and the most important of these is being able to convert your chacnes when they copme along."

Can't say fairer than that. With regards to the boro it's my opinion that when we learn to keep the ball better than we have the last two games we'll create more chances, which incidentally is what our star striker relies on.

br14 Posted on 29/10/2008 12:18
Ball Retention

Chelsea vs Liverpool proves your point Lisbon, but I doubt it made for relaxed viewing for Liverpool fans.

Be nice to occasionally keep the ball for a few seconds though, rather than lobbing it upfield and waiting for it to return immediately.


grantus Posted on 29/10/2008 12:27
Ball Retention

"grantus, I'm not saying that a team devoid of being able to keep the ball can rule the world, my point is that winning is not solely reliant upon retaining possession. There are so many other factors which come into play and the most important of these is being able to convert your chacnes when they copme along."

Why didn't you say that before then?

The better your ability to create chances, the more you're likely to score, yes?

sasboro1 Posted on 29/10/2008 12:30
Ball Retention

Retaining possession in the oppositions half is likely to give you more chances of scoring than passing it about in defence then hoofing it forward long and hoping for a knock down.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 13:01
Ball Retention

No, the better your ability to convert chances, the better your ability of scoring. It doesn't matter how many chances you create if you can't convert them.

Sas, it depends what players you have in your team.

grantus Posted on 29/10/2008 13:25
Ball Retention

It doesn't matter how good you are at finishing if you are incapable of creating any chances.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 13:34
Ball Retention

Some goals are scored which aren't even chances. FACT.

woodymfc Posted on 29/10/2008 15:08
Ball Retention

Did we not sort this one out ???? Jeeeeeeeez


If only we could play like Brazil

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 15:10
Ball Retention

We've moved on from those days, we play like Egypt now...

woodymfc Posted on 29/10/2008 15:16
Ball Retention

Hey Africanfoookin champs like.

Can we not sign someone like Beckham or Kaka to play in the middle ? that would please our sas and co

sasboro1 Posted on 29/10/2008 15:18
Ball Retention

woodyfc, stop being silly just because you have los the arguement.

Boro are the scotland of english football. all hoofing it up field and run around a lot. but never really keep possession and try to play football

woodymfc Posted on 29/10/2008 15:32
Ball Retention

erm woodymfc sonny!!!


Newcastle are the Scotland of the north and we are incapable to hold the ball in midfield because it's full of inept Tosh.
We have no one in there who can ping a few defense splitting passes through the middle or read and dictate the game.
The only choice we have is to get the ball in the box by hoofing it to target lard mido because most of the time our midfield is outplayed and over run.


How have I lost ???
We would be a far better team if we could do all the above but what you can't get into your inch thick cranium is that we Can't do what the top six or seven can do........

PLAY ATTRACTIVE FOOTBALL

Man City will run riot on the pitch if we don't get into their faces and fight because that's the only choice we have as they are on paper a far superior quality of a footballing side


What a Numpty

sasboro1 Posted on 29/10/2008 15:39
Ball Retention

"PLAY ATTRACTIVE FOOTBALL"

exactly.

learn to keep possession, control the ball with first touch and put in good passes. keep possession in the attacking half of the field not where our centrebacks are. none of this hoofing it up field and hoping for a knock down or just give it to downing asap.

woodymfc Posted on 29/10/2008 15:46
Ball Retention

Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezusssssssssssss

*counts to ten and calms down*


Well done Sas, quality post my man



Just one final point, we need a cash injection of about 30 million to play how we all wish.

Get them floor boards lifted and zoom round Lamby's house with the loot

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 15:46
Ball Retention

Finsih him off Woody, you've got him against the ropes!

davidosanchez83 Posted on 29/10/2008 15:46
Ball Retention

The problem is our midfield are'nt coming short to collect it and when they do they dont seem comfortable enough on the ball to look for the easy ball. It was embarrassing against Chelsea and most of the Blackburn game. I know its harder than it looks but surely looking for the easy ball is better than lumping it up to downing.

I thought getting rid of boateng, catt and rocky would improve our passing but its just got worse. Our passings been bad for years.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 15:48
Ball Retention

F*** the passing, just shoot from anywhere I say!!

captain5 Posted on 29/10/2008 15:49
Ball Retention

Shoot from anywhere??

You sound like a fat lad who can't run anymore!!

woodymfc Posted on 29/10/2008 15:52
Ball Retention

tap tap tap with a left jabs, looks to place a right hook but........


Sas refuses to yield

woodymfc Posted on 29/10/2008 16:01
Light welter weight belt Retention

Looks like a knock out blow from woody or Sas has escaped from St Lukes and on his way to Brazil

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/10/2008 16:03
Light welter weight belt Retention

I look like a fat lad that can't run anymore.

woodymfc Posted on 29/10/2008 16:06
Light welter weight belt Retention

[:D]

woodymfc Posted on 30/10/2008 07:27
Ball Retention

Afonso Alves' disputed penalty set Middlesbrough on their way to a hard-fought victory over Manchester City.

Boro keeper Ross Turnbull kept out shots by Stephen Ireland and Shaun Wright-Phillips as City threatened.

But the home side took the lead when Daniel Sturridge tangled with David Wheater and referee Lee Mason awarded a spot-kick that Alves converted.

City poured forward in search of an equaliser but Gary O'Neil's breakaway goal in injury time sealed Boro's win.

Both sides had something to prove going into this game - Boro after they were crushed 5-0 by Chelsea in their last home game and City on their first return to the Riverside since an 8-1 drubbing on the final day of last season.

After a scrappy start it was City who were quickest to settle and Robinho, looking to add to his tally of six goals in six league games since his £32m move from Real Madrid, was first to test Turnbull with a low shot from the edge of the area.



But Boro were also creating openings and, when Stewart Downing's deflected cross found its way to Alves, the Brazilian was unlucky to see his near-post header fly straight at City keeper Joe Hart.

By now, City's positive passing game was being matched by the willingness of Boro's wide-men to run at the visitors' defence but neither side could quite fashion a clear-cut chance.

It was only after half-time that the game really opened up, with City looking more likely to make the breakthrough.

Ireland had their first opportunity when he burst into the box but his shot was pushed away by Turnbull and the bouncing ball eluded Elano.

Turnbull made a superb stop to keep out Ireland's shot
Turnbull was Boro's saviour again soon after when Sturridge's clever back-heel set up Wright-Phillips - this time the keeper saving with his leg.

But just as City looked like they were taking the game by the scruff of the neck, a controversial decision by referee Lee Mason saw Boro take the lead after 53 minutes.

Sturridge had tracked back with Wheater and they went shoulder to shoulder as they chased a ball on the right-hand edge of the area..

The Boro man went down and Mason pointed to the spot, although replays suggested there had been minimal contact and Wheater was outside the box.

Alves took full advantage, slotting home his penalty into the corner of the net with cool precision, leaving City to chase the game.

They did so admirably, pushing men forward and trying to find a gap in Boro's massed defence.

But the home side held out and Turnbull was only tested from long range.

He did well to collect Tal Ben-Haim's bouncing shot and, although he could only push away Vincent Kompany's effort, Sturridge fired wildly wide from the rebound.

The closing stages followed the same pattern with City pressing but Boro looking dangerous on the break.

City kept throwing caution to the wind, however, and were punished when O'Neil made the most of a mistake by Robinho to gallop down the right and, after his cross was blocked by Nedum Onuoha, buried the loose ball into the roof of the net.

Boro boss Gareth Southgate will rightly be pleased with his side's response to being torn apart by Chelsea.

But City's inconsistency continues and Hughes will be concerned about their lack of cutting edge here, although it was the first time they have drawn a blank in the Premier League this season.

Middlesbrough boss Gareth Southgate:
"We deserved our victory. We were excellent throughout the team, when the defence was breached our goalkeeper Ross Turnbull was superb.

"We looked dangerous on the break too when they attacked in the second half.

"Against a very good side, we were bold and looked like we wanted the ball. We were positive and when you are positive you get your reward."

Manchester City boss Mark Hughes:
"I didn't think it was a penalty. Wheater was not in full control of the ball, he was outside the box and the linesman did not give it.

"The shape of the game changed - if we scored first, we would have won it.

"All night the referee took it upon himself to make decisions that were quite frankly disappointing."

Middlesbrough: Turnbull, Wheater, Riggott, Pogatetz, Taylor, Aliadiere, O'Neil, Digard (Arca 75), Downing (Adam Johnson 83), Sanli, Alves.
Subs Not Used: Jones, Emnes, John Johnson, Grounds, Walker.

Booked: O'Neil.

Goals: Alves 53 pen, O'Neil 90.

Man City: Hart, Ben-Haim, Richards, Dunne, Onuoha, Kompany, Wright-Phillips, Ireland, Elano (Fernandes 67), Robinho, Sturridge (Evans 77).
Subs Not Used: Schmeichel, Jo, Garrido, Hamann, Berti.

Booked: Kompany, Ireland, Robinho.

Att: 25,731

Ref: Lee Mason (Lancashire).

BBC Sport Player Rater man of the match: Manchester City's Robinho 8.57 (on 90 minutes).

Lisbonlegend Posted on 30/10/2008 08:17
Ball Retention

Miss a penalty, lose the game, score a penalty, win the game.

Point proved.

toxic_bob Posted on 30/10/2008 08:26
Ball Retention

Thank F*** Alves took the penna

Lisbonlegend Posted on 30/10/2008 08:27
Ball Retention

Yep and what a penalty. Top corner, there you go Stewart, that's how you do it!

TheIndependant Posted on 30/10/2008 08:35
Ball Retention

Win a penalty from a surging run into the box from a hopeful long ball.
Snatch ball off Downing and crack it in with ease leaving the goalie at the wrong side of the goal


Stewart, have a look on utube son

SirHumptyofDumpty Posted on 30/10/2008 09:38
Ball Retention

My theory was proved right last night.

woodymfc Posted on 30/10/2008 09:39
Ball Retention

and which theory was that sir humpty ?

SirHumptyofDumpty Posted on 30/10/2008 09:47
Ball Retention

Keep the ball better > Build Confidence > Win the game

woodymfc Posted on 30/10/2008 09:52
Ball Retention

Aha Einstein well I suppose you have a point there but City did make a blunder last night by being too open in their play which allowed us time and freedom which is what our average midfield needs and capitalized upon

Do you think we can do the same v West ham

Sleaford Posted on 30/10/2008 09:55
Ball Retention

Us-------Stat--------Citeh
2------Goals---------0
4-------On Target-----8
3-------Off Target----6
3-------Blocked-------4
3--------Corners-------1
13-------Fouls---------14
6-------Offsides-------4
1--------Yellows--------3
0---------Reds---------0
74.3--Pass Sucess----78.5
16------Tackles------25
81.2--Tackle Sucess--72
41.2---Possession---58.8
51.6--Territorial Advantage--48.4

Chappy112 Posted on 30/10/2008 09:57
Ball Retention

Of course keeping the ball wins you games, when we have the ball we don't have to chase their players around, they have to chase us.

If we have the ball, they can't score.

If we have the ball, we have opportunities to create more chances.

Look at the teams in the league who will probably be up there at the end of the season, your Aston Villas and Evertons etc when they play well they are very difficult to get the ball off.

Just a thought but maybe because we give the ball away so cheaply and are chasing teams around for the majority of the game explains why we concede so many late goals. The players are knackered! Or it could just be we give the opposition so much possession eventually they are going to create something.


woodymfc Posted on 30/10/2008 09:58
Ball Retention

Well Sir Numpty


I think on that evidence from Sleaford, part of your theory has landed in the bin

SirHumptyofDumpty Posted on 30/10/2008 10:05
Ball Retention

Summarised very nicely chappy.

Sleaford Posted on 30/10/2008 10:05
Ball Retention

They had more possession, we had more attacking threat in their half with our 40% possession (I'm assuming thats what 'Territorial Advantage' means)

I can't believe it, but does that mean Lisbo and Woody are right*?






















*For this game.

woodymfc Posted on 30/10/2008 10:09
Ball Retention

take a bow Lisbon [:D]


BTW, if we show that same commitment week in week out without fannying about with the ball like a juggling seal then we should have a reasonable season

Do the simple things best and work from there

Lisbonlegend Posted on 30/10/2008 10:10
Ball Retention

I won't say I told you so.[:P]

Sleaford Posted on 30/10/2008 10:11
Ball Retention

Wigan----stat-------Us
0-------Goals--------1
1----On Target-------1
12---Off Target------4
2----Blocked Shots---1
8------Corners-------2
11------Fouls--------13
5-------Offsides-----3
3---Yellow Cards-----0
0-----Red Cards------0
80.1-Passing Success-63.9
21------Tackles------20
52.4-Tackles Success-70
59.2---Possession----40.8
59.5-Territorial Advantage-40.5

woodymfc Posted on 30/10/2008 10:12
Ball Retention

and West Brom

Chappy112 Posted on 30/10/2008 10:12
Ball Retention

No he is right in that it is not a necessity to win games. But how much easier would it have been for us last night if we had kept the ball better?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 30/10/2008 10:15
Ball Retention

It's not about keeping the ball, it's about scoring goals and keeping them out. Keeping possession helps reduce tiredness and looks better but scoring penalties is what it's all about!

woodymfc Posted on 30/10/2008 10:17
Ball Retention

Chappy this all goes full circle again

We can't play like the top 6, 7 or 8
We are not good enough at THE MOMENT

Get the ball in the box

Shoot

Shoot

Shoot

SirHumptyofDumpty Posted on 30/10/2008 10:19
Ball Retention

If you saw the game last night, you'll have realised how much confidence we gained from stringing a few passes together and moving off the ball with a bit more fluency. That gave us the platform to progress, saying otherwise is a bit silly really.

Chappy112 Posted on 30/10/2008 10:26
Ball Retention

"Chappy this all goes full circle again

We can't play like the top 6, 7 or 8
We are not good enough at THE MOMENT

Get the ball in the box

Shoot

Shoot

Shoot"

And we won't be unless we keep the ball and move better. I'm not saying play Arsenal-like but just simple things like holding the ball for 5 minutes and not doing silly stray passes into touch(although this didn't happen too much last night).

If we keep the ball better it gives the team a breather. If we can win games like we did last night though then that is fine but if we want to progress into the top 8 then we have to keep possession better. I'm sure that is what Southgate is trying to instil into the team which is why I am 100% behind him.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 30/10/2008 10:28
Ball Retention

Humpty, City were on top, we scored a penalty and we were on top. It was thge goal that gave us the extra confidence, nt a few tippy tappy passes around the field.

woodymfc Posted on 30/10/2008 12:51
Ball Retention

We don't have Boateng, Mendietta TLF and Zenden in the squad anymore
We have the egyptian mummy, digger, gon and Arca who is the only player who can pass a ball consistently and read the game better.

get the ball up the field!!
left to downing
right to Gon
up the middle to Alves and Ali with Tuncay not far behind

Bang in the back of the Net!!!

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