permalink for this thread : http://search.catflaporama.com/post/browse/721202
Paddy_Mcguire Posted on 09/10/2008 18:52
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

conspiracy?

Jeremy_Clarkson Posted on 09/10/2008 18:57
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

It was a big set up I could waffle for hours but Emmerdale is on soon so I wont. [:D]

onthemap Posted on 09/10/2008 18:57
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

It was just computer generation, like the moon landing.

bblf Posted on 09/10/2008 19:00
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

nah it was real I had one when I was 28 and it was a great car. Id have another Porsche if I ever got divorced.

Paddy_Mcguire Posted on 09/10/2008 19:00
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

waffle away jezza, waffle away..............only after emmerdale though[;)]

Bren_MFC Posted on 09/10/2008 19:07
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

whats the conspiracy? they kill thousands of their own so they can start a war on terror? yeah right, some people actually belive that rubbish, thats the scary thing

ayresomemark Posted on 09/10/2008 19:17
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

i believe they knew (ie intelligence)

and chose not to do anything - except have the excuse to go to war.

I dont buy into the fact that explosives were used to destroy towers, pentagon etc,

I also believe silverstien was in the loop hence his insurance policy payoff.

grumpy Posted on 09/10/2008 19:18
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Is Gazza still dead

Bren_MFC Posted on 09/10/2008 19:26
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

I believe it was what it was, a terrorist attack, why is that so hard to believe

ayresomemark Posted on 09/10/2008 19:28
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

in fact codoleeza rice admitted they knew in the 9/11 comission report

boro-exile Posted on 09/10/2008 19:32
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Not sure about any of the above but certain events were covered up, channel 4 news - along with eyewitnesses reported a very different last few seconds for the boston plane. the report was only broadcast once & i didnt see it on any other channels. i believe i am supposed to end this with FACT!

guyb Posted on 09/10/2008 19:45
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

While I am open minded as to most conspiracies, I believe 9/11 is pretty much as well described.

It worked out pretty well for the administration but after the previous 8 years - Iraq, Afghanistan, Katrina, Guantanamo and the Economy, this is the most incompetent regime the US has ever seen so I doubt they'd have been able to organise something like that succesfully

Tommy_Trinder Posted on 09/10/2008 19:57
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

No... it was all made up, it never really happened... ffs


boro1213 Posted on 09/10/2008 19:59
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

in the grand scheme of things from the goverments point of view the loss of a few hundred peoples lifes would be nothing to be able to wipe out billions of pounds worth of debt and to be able to use it as a excuse for other actions..

lots of things just never added up, things were not reported on and investigated as you would have expected.

as bad as it sounds i do think it is possible to have been a inside job.

where is all the wreckage of the planes and stuff from the pentigon? they dont just vapourize

the two towers shurely should have stood despite a plane hitting it? the empire state building did when that got hit and that is much older than the twin towers which where built far superior

LincsBoro Posted on 09/10/2008 20:01
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

A conspiracy theorist is some-one who believes nothing they read i the papers, but everyting they read on the internet

ayresomemark Posted on 09/10/2008 20:07
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

the two towers shurely should have stood despite a plane hitting it? the empire state building did when that got hit and that is much older than the twin towers which where built far superior



yeah but it was a tichy plane not a fully laden jet that was going trans continental though i do agree with a lot of what you say

Bren_MFC Posted on 09/10/2008 20:10
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

people love making up theories, they sucker a lot of people in, the theorists just stand back and laugh as they see the things they made up just build and get bigger

albo87 Posted on 09/10/2008 20:13
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

I doubt we'll ever find out for certain, but the collapse of the 3 buildings (the twin towers plus the hardly reported World Trade Centre Building 7, an important CIA and military building) certainly looked like a controlled demolition. There is no history of buildings collapsing in that way due to fires even more severe than those caused by the plane crashes.

One thing's for sure, the extreme right in the Republican Party were quick to use the attack to do what they had been arguing for over many years in the run up to 9/11 - invade and establish a long term US military presence in strategically important (i.e. oil-rich) parts of the world. There's a chilling quote from one of these neo-cons in 1997: "We need a Pearl Harbour event to unify the people behind the war for global Imperial conquest."

So even if we can never be sure these warmongers actually conspired to do it, the tragedy certainly suited them and their aims.


Link: The people behind Bush

boro1213 Posted on 09/10/2008 20:22
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

exactly building 7 was not joined,related to the twin towers. it was not hit by anything, although falling debris did hit it. yet this just fell to the ground? fire was reported seen in a few windows but it had not been burning long/hot enough to break windows, yet the main structural integrity of the building failed??? does not add up...

littlejimmy Posted on 09/10/2008 20:32
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

I'm with ayresomemark. I think they knew it was on the cards and allowed it happen.

flaps Posted on 09/10/2008 20:33
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

There was no conspiracy. If you read balanced accounts you will find that every 'anomaly' that points to a conspiracy is easily disproved.

There's a BBC documentary on iplayer about it. It gives a very balanced view to both sides of the argument.

Most telling is the reaction of the guy that made the 'loose change' internet documentary. When provided with counter arguments every time his response is 'well he must be getting paid by the government'. It's a load of balls and hes just trying to coin it in on the back of gullible people.

albo87 Posted on 09/10/2008 20:51
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Flaps, I agree there are two sides and no conspiracy theory is provable beyond doubt. But you're wrong to say that every anomoly pointing to a conspiracy is easily disproved. I watched the BBC documentary you mention and, while it does give different explanations for the collapse of the buildings, it in no way disproves the 'controlled demolition' theory. The alternative, that the sheer heat from the fires caused structural weakening and collapse is purely theoretical. Independent engineering specialists said that, without controlled demolition using explosives, there is no real life example anywhere in the world of a building collapsing due to fire in that 'vertical drop' way, even when blazing far more fiercely than the Twin Towers and Building 7 (which, for the size of it, was hardly burning at all).

Just like the deaths of JFK and Diana, these rows will go on for decades, maybe more. The more important question is to ask who benefitted from 9/11? That was the warmongering neo-conservatives in the USA, who themselves said in 1997 that they needed just such an event to justify Imperial war around the world.

Big_Shot Posted on 09/10/2008 20:54
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

'fire was reported seen in a few windows but it had not been burning long/hot enough to break windows, yet the main structural integrity of the building failed???'

Well the firemen at the scene saw it burning intensely all day. As one said on that recent BBC documentary he was there, you weren't. There's plenty of footage of it burning also.

boro1213 Posted on 09/10/2008 20:55
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

that maybe the case flaps but you cant argue alot of things happend that have been proved cant happen in the circumstances that occured ie
vapourizing planes?
why did the plane hit the side of the pentigon it did? (from the direction it came it should have hit another side but manovered to hit the side it did)
why did building 7 just `fall` down?
why where no investigation teams allowed anywhere near ground zero?
where did the billions of pounds of gold bars go from building 7 (never recovered apparently)?
why where there reported loads of phone calls made from the planes? you cant get a signal at 30,000ft! the connection would not keep a connection for the times reported that calls lasted...

Things never got explained and everything eventually got swept under the carpet.

i dont totaly believe all the conspiracy stuff but i do question some things that dont add up.

flaps Posted on 09/10/2008 20:57
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Of all the conspiracy theories surrounding 9/11, the idea that explosives were placed in the 3 buildings is the most absurd.

For every "Independent engineering specialist" that says the only way it happened was through a controlled explosion, there will be one with the opposite view.

How could they get these explosives in without being seen? Dozens and dozens of floors would haev needed wiring. How would they have hidden the explosives? What if they had gone off by mistake? What if they hadn't gone off when they were supposed to?

Ultimately the one thing that, for me, disproves this and pretty much any big conspiracy theory is human nature. Hundreds of people would have to be maintaining a silence. Hundreds of people, and not one has ever come forward saying 'I was involved in the conspiracy'.

People get poor, people get greedy, people get touched in the head. For any number of reasons, at least one would have talked.



Also, there is no 'row' over the death of Diana. Even Al Fayed has stopped going on about it being a conspiracy.

flaps Posted on 09/10/2008 21:02
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

boro1213 - for each of your points there is will be an explanation. I don't have the time or inclination to do the research for you but a bit of googling can help you.

You're saying 'there is no explanation' because you've seen a conspiracy website or video where they pose the question without attempting to find an answer.

Conspiracy theorists selectively provide material to support their own agenda.

Have a look for the BBC video on iplayer.

boro1213 Posted on 09/10/2008 21:03
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

`Well the firemen at the scene saw it burning intensely all day. As one said on that recent BBC documentary he was there, you weren't. There's plenty of footage of it burning also.`

i was not there but being a firefighter i tend to know how buildings react to fire and a fire burning for 8 hours WOULD have knocked the windows through. even if it hadnt put the windows through it would`nt have collapsed in the controled fashion it did! parts of the building would have collapsed in a irregular fashion...

flaps Posted on 09/10/2008 21:04
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

How do you know the windows were all intact?

Big_Shot Posted on 09/10/2008 21:05
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Plenty of footage of smoke bellowing out of multiple broken windows.

mailinator Posted on 09/10/2008 21:05
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

"why where there reported loads of phone calls made from the planes? you cant get a signal at 30,000ft! the connection would not keep a connection for the times reported that calls lasted..."

Airphones. Most calls were made from the phones installed on the planes in the back of the seat.

No point in going over all this old ground although I've since watched a documentary on controlled demolitions of a building and will say a couple of things on this:

1: Everyone says those buildings fell "just like a controlled demolition". Wrong! Watch a real controlled demolition and you'll see that they stagger the explosions at one side so the building falls down followed by the other side falling in on it. It looks nothing LIKE the collapse of those towers which went either straight down creating an almighty load of debris and dust all over the place or the top simply fell off peeled over to one side.

2: It takes months to install the explosives in controlled demolitions. They simply wouldn't be able to do it over a weekend.

flaps Posted on 09/10/2008 21:07
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

boro1213 - just addressing one of your concerns for example

"vapourizing planes?"

I assume you're referring to the one that hit the pentagon? The one that apparently disappeared as no wreckage was found, leading them to believe it was actually a cruise missile?

Well the simple fact is, there was wreckage. And plenty of it. Conspiracy websites posts pictures of the pentgaon with hardly any wreckage. These are cropped images, but there are plenty of others showing large chunks of plain. Firefighters who were there certainly saw wreckage.


A true conspiracy theorist would postulate that the conspiracy theorists we hear about are actually put in place to distract us from the real conspiracies.

Big_Shot Posted on 09/10/2008 21:08
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

and hundreds of people witnessed it hitting.

flaps Posted on 09/10/2008 21:09
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Actually you can get a phone signal in a plane, especially over urban areas like these planes were.

The reason mobile phones were originally banned in america wasn't for safety. It was an FCC directive to reduce the strain on the cellular network as phones rapidly switch from transmitter to transmitter because of the speed of the plane.

If everybody in america used their phoned mid-flight, there were fears it would bring down the phone network.

guisboro Posted on 09/10/2008 21:16
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

I've read a few books and watched a few of the films, and there are a lot of uanswered questions, a lot of which boro1213 has raised, that are ineresting to investigate.

But as a few have said, i cant honestly believe the government were capable of planning, execting and subsequently keeping their implication under wraps

Bren_MFC Posted on 09/10/2008 21:18
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

have the terrorists blamed the USA for this at all? are they saying the USA started this as an excuse for a war on terror?

flaps Posted on 09/10/2008 21:19
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Well the point is the terrorists are just american puppets playing the bad guy, so it doesnt matter if they take the credit for it or not.

albo87 Posted on 09/10/2008 21:20
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

I love debating all this stuff, but the conspiracy theorists are never going to prove the non-conspiracy theorist wrong, or vice versa. I think there's a lot to be said for some of the conspiracy arguments, but I do doubt whether the nutters I suspect would have had the intelligence, cunning and discretion to actually pull it off without being found out.

As I posted earlier though, there is no doubt that a group of extreme right wing republicans were very quick and successful in using 9/11 for their stated political and military ends - to invade other countries to control oil supplies with a long term military presence. Don't take my word for it - read their own publications (you can get at them through the link above). It is also true that in 1997 one of them said "We need a Pearl Harbour event to unify the people behind the war for global Imperial conquest.". You were right flaps - people do talk.

Big_Shot Posted on 09/10/2008 21:22
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

But there aren't any unanswered questions though, you've just watched something that implies that they are. Everything has been more than sufficiently explained and it all backs up the version of events that we all saw.

flaps Posted on 09/10/2008 21:24
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

"I love debating all this stuff, but the conspiracy theorists are never going to prove the non-conspiracy theorist wrong, or vice versa."

I disagree with this.

There is an agreed 'official' set of events that is supported by various bits of evidence and eye witness accounts. It's the 911 Commission Report.

You can't disprove conspiracy theorists because they don't provide evidence or fact, just ask a series of questions based on half-truths and bad guesswork.

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 09/10/2008 22:12
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

charlie brooker article which pretty much sums up how ludicrous the whole thing is:


Link: it was kevin bacons fault

Dibzzz Posted on 09/10/2008 22:19
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

I have my doubts, I wouldn't put nowt past the Bush administration.

offside-again Posted on 09/10/2008 22:26
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Genuine attack they knew nothing until it happened. The reason you get all these conspiracy theories is due to the audacious, enormity of it all, they have to find a 'reason' other than the most obvious one, I just go with the most obvious answer is the answer, so it was no set up, that's too far fetched.

Tommy_Trinder Posted on 09/10/2008 22:28
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Denialism!

Dibzzz Posted on 09/10/2008 22:30
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

I did find it a little suspicious that even though the planes vapourised along with all onboard, they still managed to find the lead terrorists passport.

I'm sorry, I'm not buying that one like.

Bren_MFC Posted on 09/10/2008 22:31
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

agree, too far fetched, it would have involved too many people, something would have leaked somewhere along the line

flaps Posted on 09/10/2008 22:33
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

"I did find it a little suspicious that even though the planes vapourised along with all onboard, "

Which planes? Why do you think they vapourised? Why do you think no bodies were found? Who told you this?


I remember a day or two after it happened how at the WTC site it was reported that a pair of hands and lower arms were found with a zip tie holding them together, believed to belong to an air hostess.

Timboi Posted on 09/10/2008 22:35
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Like all things it could be a instance of both.

I doubt the whole thing was staged. A huge production that would have been impossible to keep quiet - there's plenty of other things they could have done instead to have the same effect, and way too much at stake if it all came out.

Some things were obviously covered-up to give it maximum effect but to stage the whole thing is a bit incredible.

Dibzzz Posted on 09/10/2008 22:37
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

So piece of paper not only survived the plane crashing into the tower it also survived the fire and the collapse and was found amonsgt all the debris.

Fcuk off, I'm not stupid.

Bren_MFC Posted on 09/10/2008 22:37
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Anybody watch Prison Break, it would be like that, they set up this whole thing to look like a terorist attack but obviously it would involve a whole host of people to pull it off , so anytime sometime decides to spill the beans 'The Company' despatches a 'Contractor' to eliminate that possibility.

flaps Posted on 09/10/2008 22:38
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

"Some things were obviously covered-up"

what things?

craig-pancrack Posted on 09/10/2008 22:40
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

The steel weakened in just 45 mins and all 47 vertical support columns failed at exactly the same time - on both towers! The WTC was made in part with Teesside Steel which WOULDN'T HAVE FAILED RIGHT!!! so the collapse wouldn't have been symmetrical! SO of course it was CONTROLLED DEMOLITION !!!

also...why are some people so ready to denounce any other theories and so ready to accept what THE BUSH REGIME would tell them?!! That's scarey...


Link: 911 The Ripple Effect

Dibzzz Posted on 09/10/2008 22:44
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Also, why did that other building, WTC7 collapse like it did?
It wasn't hit by a plane, it did catch fire, but nothing on the scale of the twin towers, no reason at all for that to hit the deck like it did.

Very fishy.


Bren_MFC Posted on 09/10/2008 22:47
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

the scarey thing is that people are clutching at straws to find any remote possibility that it might not have been a terrorist attack, wake up, it was the terorists at work

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 09/10/2008 23:09
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

tower 7 fell down because it had a massive fire raging inside it and 2 huge skyscrapers had just fallen down next to it and showered it with debris.
rather than being rigged with bombs to destroy paperwork.

it really scares me how many people believe in the 9/11 truth movement. they're as bad as creationists.

mailinator Posted on 09/10/2008 23:13
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

craig, you are starting to sound like David Shayler.

mar10 Posted on 09/10/2008 23:14
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

september 11th or november 9th deffenetly happen and they have done for the passed 18 years ive been on this planet so i do below in 9/11

Dibzzz Posted on 09/10/2008 23:18
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Ok, so how come other buildings which were closer to the twin towers survived? A fire doesn't cause a building to collapse like a demolition.

The Empire State buliding was hit by a WWII bomber in 1945, it caught fire, it was open for business again three days later.

craig-pancrack Posted on 09/10/2008 23:18
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Barry Jennings WTC7 survivor...


Link: interview

craig-pancrack Posted on 09/10/2008 23:25
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

David Icke please! ...and on Eston Nab not Roseberry!

dooderooni Posted on 09/10/2008 23:25
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

The anomoly shown in 'The Ripple Effect' with the BBC reporting Building 7's collapse 20 minutes before it went down is very odd.

Dibzzz Posted on 09/10/2008 23:28
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Yeah that's mental.

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 09/10/2008 23:30
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

other buildings survived because they were built differently, were hit in different places, did not have as big or as intense a fire in them etc etc etc etc etc etc....

a world war 2 bomber hitting the empire state building is not the same as 2 jumbo jets flying into the world trade center.

look at the bigger picture. Why would they demolish tower 7 in a controlled explosion? why would bush use saudis to attack the US as a pretext for war with Iraq/Afganistan

seriously though, get a job for the government. I work in one of the big departments and our photocopiers dont even work. then try imagining them pulling off this without anyone knowing.

ps kennedy was shot by a lone gunman
the 7/7 bombs were not perpetrated by MI5 or part of a cover up for London Underground when one of their mistakes caused a power surge to blow up 4 tube trains
We did land on the moon
diana was not killed by prince philip as she was carrying a muslim baby

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 09/10/2008 23:32
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

the bbc picked up a news report from reuters. the news report was incorrect.
i remember reading on 7/7 a yahoo news report saying a suicide bomber had been shot outside canary wharf.

craig-pancrack Posted on 09/10/2008 23:33
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

many mental things about that day...here's to the truth in our lifetime!

Dibzzz Posted on 09/10/2008 23:33
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

I'm still not convinced, I'm no conspiracy geek, I just think this has a real whiff about it.

darlonorth Posted on 09/10/2008 23:40
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

It was a terrorist attack.

Let the Conspiracy Theorists have their theories... You can't argue or reason with such people. They have a question for every answer.

craig-pancrack Posted on 09/10/2008 23:42
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

a terrorist atttack by a group who conspired to do it no question...

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 09/10/2008 23:42
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

there are lots of unusual and unexplained things about many events. you need to step back and look at the whole picture. countrys are easly able to engineer wars without killing 6000 of their own citizens. it would be just too risky for bush. why not just say the iraqi's had shot down an american plane if you want to start a war. WWII started in a simlar way in China. the Japanese manufactured an incident as a pretext for war.

the whole conspiracy thing is getting ridiculously out of hand.

look up some of the 7/7 theorys. some poor woman who was on one of the tube train is being hounded by internet loons who think she is a plant by MI5.

Bren_MFC Posted on 09/10/2008 23:43
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

absolutely right, the same people, struggle to accept a lot of things, they are always looking for another answer

craig-pancrack Posted on 09/10/2008 23:50
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

guys...would it be wise to accept what a government says carte blanche...?!

Bren_MFC Posted on 09/10/2008 23:51
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

something on this enormity yes, just think what it would involve to stage something like this, come on

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 09/10/2008 23:58
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

it is not merely the government. the evidence from 9/11 comes from a multitude of sources. Reams and reams of it.
evidence pointing towards a conspiracy comes from a bunch of naval gazing american teenagers who want to have a purpose in life, and a rag tag of lunatic "experts"

SplendidStuff Posted on 10/10/2008 00:10
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Conspiracies will continue to rage and i think its healthy to question anything and everything.

To just accept what you are told and not question is dangerous.

Although i have watched many of the conspiracy theories etc and keep an open mind it is strange how tower 7 sets on fire and manages to collapse. If i think that is strange i dont think i should be condemned.

People have unanswered questions and want to know, so what is wrong with that?

Dibzzz Posted on 10/10/2008 00:13
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Yeah, that's pretty much where I stand mate.

mailinator Posted on 10/10/2008 00:15
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

I think what seems to cause the issues is that so many people say they have unanswered questions but there *are* answers for those questions.

A lot of it tends to be based on instinctive reactions and gut feelings that things just wouldn't have happened like that but rarely do people accept the answers and put their minds at rest.

dooderooni Posted on 10/10/2008 00:15
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

I'm not saying it was an inside job or even that the conspiracy theories are correct but surely if Reuters had released a press report stating that Building 7 had collapsed then it would have been all over the news networks around the world?

A 47 story building is a bit more visible than a suicide bomber outside Canary Wharf.

Perhaps the documentary has got it wrong but if not, then that is some pretty impressive mistake for the BBC to have made given that the place was crawling with reporters who could visually confirm if the building was there or not.

SplendidStuff Posted on 10/10/2008 00:18
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

mailinator they might be answers but we were told that Lee harvey Oswald shot JF Kennedy. I dont believe that for one second.

dooderooni Posted on 10/10/2008 00:24
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Placing implicit trust in either the governments version of events or those of the conspiracy theorists is dangerous. The full unexpurgated truth will never be known but there is plenty to doubt about 9/11, the war on terror and the way they have shaped our world since.

It is only right and proper to question things and have an open mind about them.

Where are these WDM's that we were all told were being aimed at us for instance? Do we still trust the government to tell us the truth?

mailinator Posted on 10/10/2008 00:24
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Well there was an awful lot being reported that day that didn't turn out to be true. It'd be interesting to see a report of various rumours that made "breaking news" that day.

Even more interesting to see what stories appeared that were rejected by news outlets after they did their own checking?

It seems to me that the BBC ran with a story that was inaccurate and got caught out. This is the BBC that has had a poor time of it over the past decade with some high profile lapses in checks ranging from the funny (that bloke who got interviewed by mistake) and serious (David Kelly affair; sexed-up dossiers etc)

Them reporting that reminds me of that comedy sketch on The Day Today where the reporter has slept in at the hotel and pretends he is at a trade conference at the world trade centre on 9/11 and not much has happened.

And if it really is some hint of a deeper conspiracy, it seems a glaring error to commit when you've managed to accomplish such an amazing fraud and pass it off as terrorism. Why would you leak that to Reuters when you know there would be so many independent eyes to witness it and report it plausibly?

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 10/10/2008 00:27
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

We all question things. I think part of this has come from the clinton/new labour control of the media.
questioning miniscule events and ignoring the big picture though is not a smart way of thinking.
I can google tower 7 and give you an answer of why it collapsed, you can google it back and offer a rebuttal.
What can't be offered is a reasonable explaination of why they would do a controlled demolition on it. and then taking a couple of steps back why it would be necessary for the bush administration to orchestrate this attack and how on earth they could manage it. hell nixon couldnt even manage a burglary.

it also obscures the real issues. a more plausible conspiracy theory is that dylan avery is a plant by the republicans to make all critics of the iraq war seem like nutjobs. to have an understanding of the events in the world you need to be able to distinguish indisputable fact. how can you understand middle eastern politics if you think the holocaust was a sham? you would be basing your opinions on a false premise.

besides a bunch of kids trying to feel important on the back of the deaths of 6000 leaves a bad taste in the mouth. some of them are like the god hates fags lot.


Link: NYC fireman

SplendidStuff Posted on 10/10/2008 00:28
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Precisely Dooderino.

People might label you crazy or paranoid but do not forget that we were lied to over resons for going to war.

There were no WMD's and once that could no longer be used as a reason it then switched to 'the war on terror'.

Its a sham and a shame, civil liberties being eroded over what?

Charles de menzes shot in the head how many times? I really do worry, not about terrorists but about our future.

mailinator Posted on 10/10/2008 00:29
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

"mailinator they might be answers but we were told that Lee harvey Oswald shot JF Kennedy. I dont believe that for one second."

So you want answers but you seem to have already decided which ones you will be accepting?

Yes, I agree blindly trusting a government on things is dangerous but I don't think people are so trusting in general. People on the whole distrust governments so why would they choose to become sheep now? Also, you have to remember that this isn't all just a government supplied line of information. There's tens of thousands of people who are part of the investigatory machine from witnesses to civil servants. There's FAR more independent scrutiny from the public and media these days.

dooderooni Posted on 10/10/2008 00:31
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Fair points mail and as it's taken me 7 years to become aware of it I'm guessing that it's not been widely reported on.

If I was a conspiracy theorist I'd have been all over it like a rash, or getting the BBC to pick my lottery numbers for me.

mailinator Posted on 10/10/2008 00:32
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Oh I agree with the civil liberties issues, it's a disgrace. I see in the news (hidden beneath the credit crunch panic) there's a story about the government still trying to get the 42 days through. We're all to be assured that it would only ever be used to catch terrorists and is necessary in times like these but then you see we've used anti-terror laws to freeze Icelandic assets! Are they terrorists now?

SplendidStuff Posted on 10/10/2008 00:34
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

mailinator i know the official answers and wish i could believe them, but as mentioned earlier with WMD's its either poor intelligence to blame or a poor apology. Sometimes its neither.

onthemap Posted on 10/10/2008 00:38
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

For the record I was being sarcastic. Sweet Baby Jesus!

mailinator Posted on 10/10/2008 00:39
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

I agree they F***** up either through incompetence or deliberate negligence but that's been well exposed and the shortcomings of their evidence is plain and in the public domain.

The problem there is that the government thought their combination of WMD, rogue state and nutball dictator was easily enough to justify it and didn't realise how P*** weak it was when one of those motivations just vanished.

Conspiracy or not, that didn't stand up to much scrutiny whereas 911 has had far more scrutiny pretty much nothing in the way of credible evidence to support a conspiracy there.

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 10/10/2008 00:44
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

disbeleving the government about WMDs and thinking they would crash 2 planes into the WTC are 2 entirely different things.

Asserting that Iraq has the capacity to launch an attack in 45 minutes is a much better way to take a country to war than crashing a plane into canary wharf. I'm not fond of Alistair Campbell but I doubt this was raised as a possibility in any cabinet meetings.

SplendidStuff Posted on 10/10/2008 00:44
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Watching craigs ripple effect link with the plane colliding.

The naked eye shows a definitive 'pod' on the underbelly of the plane.

Before anyone starts im not saying this is definitive proof but just take a look and tell me if you see something that looks iregular.


SplendidStuff Posted on 10/10/2008 00:47
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

sheriff you think that taking our country to war over non existent WMD's and basically slaughtering occupants of said country and our own soldiers is disimilar?

Also you think that its down to disbelieving the government? Well its already proven that there was reason to disbelieve.

mailinator Posted on 10/10/2008 00:50
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Yeah, I've seen it and I've seen other footage where it doesn't show up.

I've got to ask, what would that pod be, exactly? What are they saying it is? A remote control thing (I can't remember - it has been a while since I saw that)

dooderooni Posted on 10/10/2008 00:53
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Whoa there sheriff, that's a pretty big assumption you are making there if it's directed at me.

If not then I'm the one making the assumptions [;)]

I think the crux of the matter is that we are all manipulated by 'the man', be it through government policy or the media, and we need to keep an open mind about everything.

At least we've had some debate on this thread an none of the usual playground sniping that goes on.

SplendidStuff Posted on 10/10/2008 00:53
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Its a feature that would not belong on a commercial jet basically. I can see it with my own eyes on all the coverage but its not a normal part of a commercial jet.

Im not saying its sinister before i get attacked, but it is uncommon to be on a commercial plane and there is no official explanation of what it was.

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 10/10/2008 00:54
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

i do.

to go to war with iraq has a purpose. be that to steal their oil or to further democracy in the middle east.

crashing a plane into a tower to start a war does not. all you need do is issue a spun dossier and ignore the UN.

SplendidStuff Posted on 10/10/2008 00:55
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Yeah im pretty surprised that this thread has not turned into a playground squabble.


SplendidStuff Posted on 10/10/2008 00:57
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

sheriff correct me if wrong but you think a government would send its people to die over oil?

Yet you dont think it would kill people to achieve similar gains.

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 10/10/2008 01:00
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

the pod thing is usually supposed to be a missile in the conspiracy theorys. its actually where the wheels go or summit - i cant rightly remember.
its of little importance though as it fails to answer why it is necessary for them to fly planes into skyscrapers to justify foreign policy, never mind why you need to fire a missile into the WTC when its about to be hit by a bloody great big plane.

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 10/10/2008 01:03
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

governments tend to try not to slaughter their own electorate if they can help it.

dooderooni Posted on 10/10/2008 01:09
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

The whole thing with 9/11 is the scale of it and that's used by both sides of the argument to question how it could be or not be the work of conspiracy.

If you consider that the US/CIA/Neocons or whoever could not stage it and keep it secret then you must also question how a collection of terrorists could do likewise and perpetrate such an atrocity without it becoming known.

If it was known to be happening then those who did nothing about it should be brought to book for negligence, unless of course those that knew about it saw it as an avenue to further their own agenda. In that case then there are far more serious charges to answer. Either way, we'll never know because the people policing the world are normally the ones in who's best interest it is to keep things secret.

SplendidStuff Posted on 10/10/2008 01:14
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Just a little bit i have seen.

Apparently the heat brought the structures down. Pretty much where a plane hit you can see someone waving for help in the open damage area of the building!!!

If the heat was enough to melt the steel structure where the planes collided then how can someone survive and be waving for help?

Like i say its questions without many answers.

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 10/10/2008 01:16
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

it did become known that a bunch of terrorists flew planes into the wtc. they only had to keep it secret beforehand.

dooderooni Posted on 10/10/2008 01:19
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

As a trained metallurgist I can safely state that in my experience, the fires would have had very little to do with weakening the steelwork to cause a catastrophic collapse. However, the weight of the building above the impact points bearing down on the structure that was bent and broken by the impact of the planes will have had a more significant effect on failure.

Rauko Posted on 10/10/2008 01:31
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

One of the questions needed to ask would be : would the official story stand up in court? No .. simple as that. There's the fake Bin Laden video where a bloke who looks nothing like him "confesses" .. but other than that, the only "proof" that exists is the words coming out of the mouths of the politicians. No matter how many times its said, it doesn't make it true.

For every fireman that says fires brought them down, there is another telling that he heard bombs going off. For every alternative theory, there is a counter theory or explanation. The simple official timeline doesn't even add up.

As for needing 100s of people involved in any conspiracey - maybe, but you only need the odd one in the right place who knows the big picture and the others are just adding small pieces of the jigsaw and don't need to know what their contribution was as they were just 'doing their job'. As for the ones who knew a bit more - a simple bullet in the back of the head when the jobs done stops them talking. Its called compartmentalisation.

We'll never know, in truth. Whoever was behind it - what we can't deny was how convinient it was for those who wanted to launch a war without end and for those who wanted to centralise power and take away freedoms and liberties from the peoples within the country.

Funny that - these terrorists hate our freedoms and want to destroy them, so some clever sap found the perfect counter strategy - take our freedoms away first so the terrorists can't destroy them .. That'll p1ss 'em off!

Always look to who benefits the most as your first suspect in any crime ..

Manny-Being-Manny Posted on 10/10/2008 07:22
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

How did you manage to type that garbage while wearing a straight jacket.

Big_Shot Posted on 10/10/2008 08:29
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

'For every fireman that says fires brought them down, there is another telling that he heard bombs going off.'

No there isn't. You've made that up.

Puckoon Posted on 10/10/2008 09:16
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

So, the same devious regime that organised a 9/11 against its own people and kept it secret, couldn't organise the planting of a few WMDs in Iraq to justify the whole thing. Either they are criminal masterminds or not

Big_Shot Posted on 10/10/2008 09:19
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Exactly. And of course these people who had no qualms in killing thousands of their own people cannot simply kill the people who are shouting the loudest about it being a conspiracy. Either they are happy to murder their own citizens or not.

Manfriday Posted on 10/10/2008 09:31
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Talking of the BBC and conspiracies.... Does anyone else think the lotto is fixed regarding lucky dip tickets? When i used to choose my own numbers i used to win tenners quite regular but since i started doing lucky dips, i aint won a bean. Ive spoke to at least half a dozen people about this and they all say the same

Rauko Posted on 10/10/2008 10:47
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Its exactly this attitude from people as to how they can get away it. They don't need to dot all the Is or cross all the Ts .. all they need to do is spout off a mantra and call it an "official story" without supplying any evidence at all - and the ignorant saps will lap it up.

You've not seen the fireman saying they heard bombs going off? Doesn't surprise me - your only looking for the confirmation that your glorious leaders are telling the truth.

No WMDs in Iraq? You think - when we're launching a never ending war - they are going to wrap operations up in 5 mins? It hasn't exactly effected them politically has it that there weren't an WMDs found .. nah, us mugs at home will let them get away with anything and justifies them being there much longer than we'd first imagine .. the plan always was to be in Iraq for a very long time .. its a plan thats been on the drawing board for decades .. so marching in to Iraq, finding WMDs and being home for tea-time was never going to happen.

You'll be telling us all next that Ahmadinejad in Iran said that he " .. wanted to wipe Israel off the map .. " .. go on .. lap it up.








sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 10/10/2008 10:54
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

jesus rauko. please tell me you're about 12.

craig-pancrack Posted on 10/10/2008 10:57
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

I stood on top of the South Tower in the 90s - the scale of it compared to the other skyscrapers was beyond incredible. I find it impossible to believe that within just 45 mins the top few floors would crush the rest STRAIGHT DOWN to powder. Surely, the steel beneath was the far greater mass and couldnt have been weakened by the heat. Think about the 16 floor Corporation house - can you imagine the top couple floors, say 10%, crushing the rest straight down? the 90% mass beneath would surely be stronger surely and cause an irregular collapse???

check this out...Rosie O Donnell TV presenter who lost her job for asking 911 questions. Here she is last month with William Rodrigues janitor of WTC who says there was an explosion in the basement before first plane hits....true or false who knows but interesting nonetheless...


Link: Rosie n Wilie 9 11 2008

Big_Shot Posted on 10/10/2008 10:59
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Nope, because nobody has ever said they heard 'bombs' going off. You're wrong if you say they did.

Smoggie_in_Exile Posted on 10/10/2008 11:00
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

No conspiracy at all no way could they have kept it secret for so long. The only plausible conspiracy I can imagine is the US government or elements within it attempting to cover up their own incompetence in letting something like this happen.


Link: this guy says it best

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 10/10/2008 11:06
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

There's only one thing that caused the TT to collapse killing thousands of innocent people and thats the terrorists who organised the attack.

What is open to debate IMO is whether the governments of the US & Israel how prior knowledge of the attack?

There was massive political capital to be made by allowing the attacks to succeed, although maybe for differing reasons.

There is real evidence that MOSSAD knew of the plot and did nothing to prevent it.

mailinator Posted on 10/10/2008 11:10
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

That's a bit silly, craig. You think that the top 10% crushed the 90% of floors beneath them? Who says the top floor was the first to collapse? You can see it doesn't on the tv footage FFS.

If one entire floor gave way in that building, a total collapse would be the result. Do you honestly think a building should be able to survive one of it's floors being crushed by the weight of the ones above it and still remain standing?

Rauko Posted on 10/10/2008 11:11
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Unfortunately, no .. not 12 .. I've actually reached that age were I'm able to think for myself and not be a Pavlovs little doggy running to my master little bell when he starts to ring.

And Big_Shot .. seriously mate .. What does it look like underground? You seem to have your head buried so deeply in it that I figure you'll get a good veiw .. Nobody? Ever? Not one single person .. fireman, police officer, caretaker .. as ever said they heard bombs going off?

I admit - they won't appear on the 9'o'clock news or Coronation Street where I guess you get your world veiw from - but there have been many many people come forward to claim just that. There were some 200 rescue workers on 911 that petitioned the official inquiry into 911 to try and force them to investigate their claims of bombs going off (they just got ignored).

So to claim "never" just sums it up, really.




Liamo Posted on 10/10/2008 11:12
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Rauko, according to whom is there only one video where someone 'who looks nothing like' Bin Laden confesses to arranging 9/11? There have been at least two that I can find involving Bin Laden, plus several audio tapes. Then there are the videos showing not only his second in command, Ayman Al Zawahiri but also other different Al Qaeda members where they admit responsibility.

Now, I can’t claim to be an expert on what ‘the real Bin Laden’ looks like but the videos of him claiming responsibility show a person who (as far as I am concerned) looks entirely consistent with every other Bin Laden video I’ve ever seen - and there have been around 13 of them.

We have also seen multiple suicide videos released, showing (among others) Wael al-Shihri, Hamza al-Ghamdi, Saeed al-Ghamdi, Ahmed al-Ghamdi and Wael Atta. What about the 1 ½ hour video involving Abu Ayyub al-Masri, also known as Hamza al-Muhajjer, the head of al Qaeda in Iraq, Ayman al-Zawahiri and Taleban leader Mullah Omar in which they all talk about Al Qaeda’s involvement in the 9/11 attacks? In addition there have been the videos featuring 'Azzam the American' (a California-born man named Adam Gadahn) and footage of Ramzi bin al-Shibh as he, according the accompanying Al Qaeda commentary, discussed the planning of the 9/11 attacks with Bin Laden.

Did the US government fake all those videos as well, and somehow get Al Jazeera (to whom they were sent) to accept them as genuine? By my count that would mean they would have had to come up with look-alikes for more than 10 different Al-Qaeda members, some of whom are well known from multiple different appearances down the years.

Big_Shot Posted on 10/10/2008 11:18
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

No I don't, because you're the one missing a very obvious point here, what does a bomb going off sound like and how do is it differ from another explosion. So these people will have heard explosions which aren't necessarily bombs. So you're wrong because nobody can say they heard a bomb.

craig-pancrack Posted on 10/10/2008 11:20
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

stack eight bricks on top of each other and drop another directly above from a height equal to a brick (ie-the missing floor) its bound to crush all of em innit...


Big_Shot Posted on 10/10/2008 11:21
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Bricks?

boro1213 Posted on 10/10/2008 11:23
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

where is bin laden these days then??? still out there to cause more terror attacks?

IF he did infact instigate the 911 attack, which was one of the worst events in history! your trying to tell me they still have not caught him in 8 years????

give me a break.

where is he? why has he not been brought to justice for causing one of the worst events in recent times?


mailinator Posted on 10/10/2008 11:24
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

If the floors consisted of SOLID brick with no air in them then that would be a valid comparison. You've got to be winding me up!

Are you seriously saying that when a floor collapsed, the top half of the building would just come to rest on top of what remained of the building?


sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 10/10/2008 11:25
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

I once did a fart that sounded like a bomb going off.

Big_Shot Posted on 10/10/2008 11:26
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

I threw an aerosol on a bonfire once, it sounded like a bomb. There must have been a bomb under the fire as no other thing in the world explodes.

craig-pancrack Posted on 10/10/2008 11:33
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Mailinator - solid bricks or hollow ones or empty fag packets, match boxes or milk crates! Youll see it on Blue peter one day!

BrokenLance Posted on 10/10/2008 11:35
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

9/11 was a terrorist plan that was allowed to proceed by the Bush administration, because the building insurance was not going to be renewed, and was no longer used to it's full capacity. The fall of those two towers was definitely a controlled demolition, as was Building 7.
Also, Building 7 was supposed to be Giuliani's Emergency Response Centre, yet he never went anywhere near it. Strange? It also housed all the FBI's evidence against ENRON. When that building fell, so did the case against ENRON.
As for the Pentagon, we've all seen footage of plane crashes. An airliner does not disintegrate without leaving a single piece of wreckage, and I've seen no footage of the actual crash, so that was a bomb, not a plane crash.
For all the cctv cameras around the pentagon, not one piece of film has been released showing the plane's approach.

Big_Shot Posted on 10/10/2008 11:39
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

'An airliner does not disintegrate without leaving a single piece of wreckage'

I guess thats why there was lots of wreckage at the site. At least read up on the subject first.

flaps Posted on 10/10/2008 11:42
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

"I've seen no footage of the actual crash, so that was a bomb, not a plane crash"

wtf?

craig-pancrack Posted on 10/10/2008 11:45
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

it was a plane with foldy up wings!

Big_Shot Posted on 10/10/2008 11:46
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Its funny how people will conveniently ignore the hundreds of people who witnessed the plane hit the Pentagon, they saw it with their own eyes. So if you don't believe them why believe anyone.

flaps Posted on 10/10/2008 11:46
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

"it was a plane with foldy up wings!"

not sure which side you're tying to argue but thats one of my favourite bits about the pentagon crash conspiracy. it seems that the conspiracy theorists have watched one too many Tomy and Jerry cartoons, believing they should see an 'airplane shaped hole'.

Big_Shot Posted on 10/10/2008 11:47
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

'it was a plane with foldy up wings!'

What do you expect an airplane shaped hole in the side on the Pentagon. It isn't a cartoon.

Big_Shot Posted on 10/10/2008 11:54
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Flaps, snap. Its quite strange that someone will argue that a building should be able to withstand the top half collapsing and falling on top of it, but then expect an airplane to slice through a concrete reinforced building.

craig-pancrack Posted on 10/10/2008 11:55
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

its called humour damn it...

boro1213 Posted on 10/10/2008 12:01
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

but there again 2 jet engines weighing a few tones each traveling at 300-400mph would shurely have caused more damage than the hole that resulted?

and come one where is bin laden then as i previously posted?

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 10/10/2008 12:10
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

"What do you expect an airplane shaped hole in the side on the Pentagon. It isn't a cartoon" [:)]

Lets just assume there is a conspiricy for a second - do you really think the bst plan the conspiritors could could up with was 'we'll pretend a plane has crashed into the pentagon, but really we will detonate a bomb instead - that should work'.

Come on please....

mailinator Posted on 10/10/2008 12:12
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

The whole was fooking enormous. Is that big enough for you?

Physics by Hanna Barbera FFS

Big_Shot Posted on 10/10/2008 12:12
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Why would it? Just because you reckon it should. Thats the difference here I have no preconceived ideas of how much damage a plane should do so don't expect a certain amount of damage. Whilst you choose to try to imply that there should have been more damage when just like me you have no idea how much damage it should have done.

Maybe the plane hit the ground first then careered into the building.

boro1213 Posted on 10/10/2008 12:21
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

`Maybe the plane hit the ground first then careered into the building.`


why is there no skid marks leading up to the impact if it hit the floor first?

as above where is all the cctv footage? you not trying to tell me the PENTIGON has no cameras around it and pointing at it?

and where is bin laden btw?


Big_Shot Posted on 10/10/2008 12:27
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Skid marks? A plane crashed it didn't skid.

CCTV, are you serious. So they've got camera's in the car parks because cars are being broken into. Or pointing at the building in case a plane crashes into it. Its the Pentagon they might not need CCTV pointing at the building.

Why not accept what the hundreds of eyewitnesses who saw it said.

boro1213 Posted on 10/10/2008 12:37
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

`Skid marks? A plane crashed it didn't skid.

CCTV, are you serious. So they've got camera's in the car parks because cars are being broken into. Or pointing at the building in case a plane crashes into it. Its the Pentagon. Why not accept the hundreds of eyewitnesses who saw it.`

you said maybe it hit the floor first then careered into the building? would that not leave marks as it moved up to the point of impact from where it initialy hit the floor??

No CCTV are you joking me..
The Pentagon is the HEADQUARTERS of the United States Department of Defense and your telling me thay dont have cctv?

lets assume thay dont for a min. what about the cctv from surrounding buildings? there is alot of building around the pentagon!

next you will tell me CCTV Technology has not reached the state of Virginia yet!


sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 10/10/2008 12:41
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

jesus wept

mailinator Posted on 10/10/2008 12:42
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

I don't think I've ever seen an installation of cctv that points directly back at the building.

I also don't think other surrounding buildings would invest in cctv to then point directly at the pentagon which isn't particularly crowded by buildings around it. Perhaps it would show up in the background on a camera in the distance like it did in the cctv footage I have seen.

FACE FACTS: Hundreds of independent witnesses saw it.

Big_Shot Posted on 10/10/2008 12:51
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

As the plane obviously came in at an angle its entirely possible that it impacted on the ground a split second before it hit the pentagon, which would back up a lot of the pictures where damage can be seen on the grass. That could explain why your '2 jet engines weighing a few tones each traveling at 300-400mph' didn't cause as much damage as you expected. I personally have no problem with the amount of damage. I was trying to put forward an reasonable explanation for your question.

As for the CCTV. Well I was assuming that as its one of the most heavily fortified building in the world then maybe they'd have armed guards patrolling the outskirts of the building and not someone sat in a control room watching a wall of TV cameras, so its not entiring beyond the realms of possibility that they might not have camera's pointing at the building. But maybe they do have CCTV pictures but don't want to release it, which again seems reasonable enough. I just don't know why someone would think that oh they must have clear pictures of it but don't want to people to see. Why not think the footgate must be really gruesome if they don't want to release it. Remember they have released a few pictures from a camera that caught it, but as the quality isn't that good people question it.

boro1213 Posted on 10/10/2008 13:10
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

they let us watch the twin towers being hit by 2 planes and let us watch people falling/jumping to there death? why not show the impact at the pentigon?


im not saying other building had cctv ponting DIRECTLY at the pentigon but it is a FACT other buildings had cctv which would have cought the whole thing because of where thay are located.

armed guards or not (which they do have) the pentigon holds some of the most important people in the world/usa! and they dont have cctv??

airports have armed guards yet thay have cctv?

i just think people tend to get drawn into what has been reported and think because thats what was reported thats the truth! all i am getting at is there is things that dont ring true in the events. but yet have just been accepted by people because thats what they `should` accept..

and where is bin laden now?

Big_Shot Posted on 10/10/2008 13:17
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

You're missing the point. I'm sure they have CCTV all over the place INSIDE the Pentagon, in every room no doubt, the best available, but maybe not pointed at the outside of the building. Which is where the plane crashed into.

As for the Twin Towers, all that coverage was filmed by the News. I'm sure they'd have probably not let most of it been shown if they could have done.

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 10/10/2008 13:17
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

stop picking thorough details. there are reasons and counter reasons. uninformed opinion is taken as fact.

try to answer the question WHY they did it and HOW they did it.

I mean its ludicrous. At least with Kennedy and even the moon landings you can attempt to answer these questions.

The X-files and 24 have a lot to answer for.

Big_Shot Posted on 10/10/2008 13:25
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

And as for

'i just think people tend to get drawn into what has been reported and think because thats what was reported thats the truth! '

You'll probably find the likes of us know far more about the event than you do as we have a genuine interest and no agenda so just read and watch what we can and decide for ourselves what we think happened. Take the Pentagon for example, the damage is consistant for a plane htting a building, there is plenty of debris at the crash site to prove a plane crashed there, there are hundreds of eyewtinesses who saw it hit, and there is a plane full of people who got on that particular flight who have never been seen since. Yet you ignore all that and are going on about some CCTV footage that may or may not exist. Its plain silly to not believe a plane hit it.

Chappy112 Posted on 10/10/2008 13:34
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

This could go on forever but there is absolutely no way anyone could convince me that a boeing 757 could make a hole that small flying 400mph in a building on impact.

Plus I'm sure on top gear I watched a plane throw a car from the power of whatever it is that goes on near planes when they are on. Yet it never tore up any grass when it was 20ft from the floor on it's way into the pentagon?


Link: Massive Damage...

boro1213 Posted on 10/10/2008 13:35
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

the whole pentigon argument could be solved with one video of the plane crashing into the building yet its never materialised.

i have no agendea and i do have a genuine interest which makes me question some things and not just accept what is reported on. but you cant get away from the fact there is some un answered questions.

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 10/10/2008 13:37
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Top Gear. Always the first place I turn to when wanting to keep up with current events.

Chappy112 Posted on 10/10/2008 13:38
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

I was just using it as an example because I have no clue about planes but I'm sure if they have the power to throw a car they have the power to have some impact on a bit of grass.

craig-pancrack Posted on 10/10/2008 13:40
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

April Gallop - Pentagon survivor...


Link: iv clip

Big_Shot Posted on 10/10/2008 13:41
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

But thats the thing, its solved. The damage, the debris, the eyewitnesses, there's even stills from a camera. But you don't think thats enough evidence(or don't believe it), so you want to see footage which might not even exist.


mailinator Posted on 10/10/2008 13:41
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

"the whole pentigon argument could be solved with one video of the plane crashing into the building yet its never materialised."

I've seen it, that's simply not true.

Too many people are happy to base their distrust on the events that happened on a hunch. "It would never do that" "it must have been bigger" "that wouldn't happen" but the reality is that you don't know fook all. I've seen an aeroplane smashed into a concrete bunker wall and it vaporised. No chunks, no wings-shaped cookie-cutter hole - vapour. It vanished. It was dust. I would never have thought it possible until I saw it.



sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 10/10/2008 13:41
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

they did release a video. It was CCTV taken from a garage. As CCTV often is it wasn't very clear. It showed a big blur then an explosion. unsurprisingly it didnt shut people up.

again. How and even more importantly why.

boro1213 Posted on 10/10/2008 13:54
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

`It showed a big blur then an explosion`

exactly the RELEASED footage showed F***all.. but people instantly beliaved it.

mailinator you must be the only one in history then because aviation experts have said NO aircraft has EVER just vaporised on impact, its not consistant to a plane crash...

and bearing that in mind where is the tail section of the plane from the pentagon or did that vaporise as well?

why did the ROUGE planes never get brought down or any fighter jets despatched to check it out? once it was noted there was 3-4 planes not responding to any air traffic moving from their respective flight paths??

oh and where is bin laden now?


mailinator Posted on 10/10/2008 14:02
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

I didn't say the plane had vapourised in the 911 attacks, my point is that there are some things that happen that go against instinct and intuition. I did say it turned to dust but no, there were no large parts visible. From the distance the camera was at, it appeared to go through the bunker.

I am happy you are prepared to listen to aviation experts but saddened you only do it when it supports your weird version of events though.

The ROUGE (sic) planes moving in their respective flight paths? How did they know that when the transponder was switched off?

As for bin laden I presume he is somewhere in the afghanistan border region with Pakistan. Why do you ask?

dooderooni Posted on 10/10/2008 14:06
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

I think Kari Byron from Mythbusters should be called in to replicate the Pentagon crash.


Link: Mythbusters?

Big_Shot Posted on 10/10/2008 14:08
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

There wasn't much left of that plane that crashed into flats in Holland some years back. It didn't make a plane shaped hole also.

Chappy112 Posted on 10/10/2008 14:10
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

You still couldn't convince me that a 130ft plane made a 15ft hole.

Muttley Posted on 10/10/2008 14:10
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Of course you conspiracy theorists will dismiss this as part of the government cover up, but have a look at the website "www.911myths.com". It details every possible theory (and some I haven't heard before - so you'll enjoy that bit)

On the subject of the attack on the Pentagon, there are photos showing an extensive debris field and large pieces of debris being removed. Similarly parts of a Rolls Royce RB211 can be identified among the photographs of the debris (the correct engine for a 757). The crash was without paralell in aviation, the plane was deliberately crashed into an ARMOURED building, in every other case (beyond WW2 kamikaze attacks) aircraft that crash are trying to avoid impact not steering into it.


Link: Link

Big_Shot Posted on 10/10/2008 14:12
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

'You still couldn't convince me that a 130ft plane made a 15ft hole.'

Well thats probably because you've got your maths wrong. The front on the plane isn't 130ft wide.

Chappy112 Posted on 10/10/2008 14:16
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

There is the maths. It's 44ft in height and 24ft wide(at the front) Yet it made a small hole like that and that's assuming that the wings and engines made no impact on the building(which is B*******)


Link: 757

Big_Shot Posted on 10/10/2008 14:18
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

So 24ft now not 130ft. Thats some jump in 2 posts. Also you don't seriously think the wings would make any impact, its not cartoon logic.

boro1213 Posted on 10/10/2008 14:18
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

so planes with no transponders (or turned off transonders) are now ok to fly anywhere they want? im quite sure there is radar stations operating 24/7 that would have picked them up and and shurely an un identified flying object MUST be investigated?

jesus why did the militry spend billions trying to make stealth aircraft? they should have just turned the transponders off! (poof!) invisible planes!

well bin laden! the most wanted man in the world? this man caused one of the most terrifying events in recent history. practacly starting a war, he brought the world to a temporary stand still and killed loads of people?

yet they have not found him in 7 years? who is looking for him stevie wonder?


Jerry_Brown Posted on 10/10/2008 14:19
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

There is a theory that a third hijacked airliner was taken out by an F15 near Philidelphia, and the pilot was so distraught at what he had, had to do, he deliberately aimed his plane at the pentagon.

mailinator Posted on 10/10/2008 14:22
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

boro1213, yes they have not found bin laden. They didn't catch the unibomber for about 16 years and only when his brother grassed him up!

As for the transponders, that's how they track planes in the skies, not with radar you fooking idiot.

Chappy112 Posted on 10/10/2008 14:25
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

"So 24ft now not 130ft. Thats some jump in 2 posts. Also you don't seriously think the wings would make any impact, its not cartoon logic."

No you've clearly just changed what I said, I was going by your logic of only counting the front, if you count the wings then it is 130ft wide.

But still the wings would have some impact on the building.

Big_Shot Posted on 10/10/2008 14:29
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

So we have this heavily reinforced concrete building and you think these thin wings would slice through it. If you were expecting a plane shaped whole then no, that wouldn't happen. A more likely scenario would be the wings would be pushed backwards as the plane impacted, or even they smash against the building making only limited superficial damage.

boro1213 Posted on 10/10/2008 14:34
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

so my point is why did the militry spend billions trying to make stealth aircraft when they should have just turned the transponders off! then thay cant be tracked then apparently?

they may track commecial aircraft with transponders, but militery radar sites would have picked them up! and once the transponder was turned off, what did the air traffic control just go `oh its ok it will be down soon dosent matter that we have no idea where the fook it is?`


but bin laden is the most wanted man on earth? instantly recognisable to just about everyone in the world. with all the technology and resources now etc your joking me arnt you..

he is having a epic game of hide and seek then isnt he?

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 10/10/2008 14:36
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

HOW AND WHY!!!!!
can't just one of you answer me that instead of going into minute details that you know nothing about.


sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 10/10/2008 14:38
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

If i was the most wanted man in the world I would probably hide in a cave in Pakistan. whats that got to do with anything anyway?

Big_Shot Posted on 10/10/2008 14:40
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Not sure why you're going on about Bin Laden. It works against everything you're trying to argue. Their inability to find one person sort of questions their ability to plan and carry out the 9/11 attacks with prefect precision and nobody finding out that they did it.

Chappy112 Posted on 10/10/2008 14:45
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Or they know exactly where he is...

Big_Shot Posted on 10/10/2008 14:47
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Yeah, that makes sense. You do realise he was wanted long before 9/11.

women_are_dirty Posted on 10/10/2008 14:50
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

I think a lot of these conspiracy theories around 9/11 came about because of americans inability to accept that they are as vunerable as anyone to terrorist attacks and cant accept it could happen.


Also as others have said the theories dont actually have to say anything that is fact, just try to doubt the actual events.

Manfriday Posted on 10/10/2008 14:53
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

I remember years ago watching tomorrows world or whatever it was and they were on about the spy satellites that can see right into your bedroom window and catch you having a wank from space. Surely they can keep track of the cave systems in pakistan?

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 10/10/2008 14:56
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

now ive never been to Pakistan, but i would imagine theres lots of dark skinned chaps with beards out there, and that it would be quite hard to tell which one was Bin Laden from a satellite picture.

dooderooni Posted on 10/10/2008 15:03
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

I remember that Manfriday, unfortunately the warnings didn't deter me from ruining my eyesight.

Manfriday Posted on 10/10/2008 15:15
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

And getting hairy palms :) if bin laden is holed up in a cave, surely the big supply wagons driving amongst the caves cant be too hard to track

Muttley Posted on 10/10/2008 15:18
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

I don't believe the 911 myths in any way, however I feel it is quite likely that OBL is smeared across a cave somewhere on the Afghanistan/Pakistan border. The American military may need him come budget time.

sparkins Posted on 10/10/2008 15:21
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Muttley, I tend to agree with you on that. There is no way that a 6ft 6 man carrying a dialysis machine could have escaped on a motorbike from Tora Bora. It suits the US mentality to have a figurehead to put to the threat of global terrorism.

dooderooni Posted on 10/10/2008 15:21
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Do they do home delivery in Pakistan?

Seriously though, they never caught Michael Myers in God knows how many movies so catching the boogieman is clearly not easy.

If Vladimir Putin was a bit more of a T*** I reckon he'd have provided sufficient threat for the Yanks to have found Old Bin Lad and replaced him but sadly the Russians aren't what they used to be.

BrokenLance Posted on 10/10/2008 16:27
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Wish I'd never mentioned the Pentagon, now ;-))

I'm more interested in why no one has asked Guiliani to explain why he didn't go to his Emergency Response Centre in Building 7. Smacks of complicity in the whole thing.

They admitted to a controlled demolition on Building 7, and did it in just a couple of days, despite most experts normally needing weeks to lay all the charges. It fell in exactly the same manner as the Two Towers.

flaps Posted on 10/10/2008 18:01
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

"explain why he didn't go to his Emergency Response Centre in Building 7"

Maybe because the building was on fire?

"They admitted to a controlled demolition on Building 7"

who did?

mailinator Posted on 10/10/2008 18:24
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Again, go and research controlled demolition and you'll see none of them were anything like a true controlled demolition in which in order to do it, you have to gut the entire building and implant loads of explosives.

Rauko Posted on 10/10/2008 20:03
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

Apparently - "no-one" said there were bombs in the buildings .. of course, these eye witnesses won't be believed because they are saying something that challenges the official story .. whereas those eye witnesses who claim something which supports the official story .. yes-siree - they'll be god-fearing and the most reliable kind ..




Link: apprently, no-one said there were bombs

ian_elliot Posted on 10/10/2008 20:10
do you believe 9/11 or do you think it was a

The biggest pointer to it being a US government conspiracy is in the date ... 9/11... 911... the number of the US emergency services.

It was all a big emergency exercise that went badly wrong.