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mickbrown Posted on 01/09/2008 12:58
Apple computers

After all the ballache I've had with my PC and viruses lately I've been thinking about getting a Mac.

Just had a look at the prices and have rapidly changed my mind. Christ they're expensive.

jeff_potato Posted on 01/09/2008 13:05
Apple computers

They do cost an arm and a leg for no apparent reason if you won't be using it for work.

For the same price as my mate's MacBook I got a Dell XPS with all manner of accoutrements, for all the portability of my old laptop I never actually took it anywhere.

fishface101 Posted on 01/09/2008 13:06
Apple computers

rather pay the money for something that works

depends what your wanting to do if your just wanting to surf dodgy websites or download lots of cracked software or music then stick with PC

If like probably most Mac users you are wanting it to do a specific job without all the hassle you get with a PC then spending the money would be worthwile

Have you looked at the Mac-Mini if its concern over costs your worried about or even an iMac theyre not too expensive

Dont just be looking on the Apple website check out a few other prices on other websites cancom usually have some good deals on

mickbrown Posted on 01/09/2008 13:08
Apple computers

Was looking at a laptop. Won't be doing anything flash with it, but did quite fancy having a play with Garage Band.

Probably just get an ordinary Windows laptop now.

mailinator Posted on 01/09/2008 13:10
Apple computers

Don't believe all the spin, I work with a windows pc each and every day to get my job done and I could not do that with a mac. Really boils my P*** that people continue to spout the same old cliches about windows machines when macs are just as able to crash, get infected with viruses and NOT WORK.

Dan_Ashcroft Posted on 01/09/2008 13:12
Apple computers

I had nothing but trouble with Macs, I'd never buy one.

the_hagbard_elite Posted on 01/09/2008 13:13
Apple computers

apples totally rule.

are worth the extra money in my opinion.

don't tell mailinator though cos he gets stroppy and pc-centric.

i've ran a bottom of the range i book for nigh on 5 years now and it has never given me anything to complain about.

i'm about to upgrade to 24"imac, can't wait.

skiptonboro Posted on 01/09/2008 13:13
Apple computers

I've worked on a mac since 1990 and never once had a virus.

the_hagbard_elite Posted on 01/09/2008 13:14
Apple computers

looks like mailinator beat me to it. he's full of sh!t. macs are cool man

the_hagbard_elite Posted on 01/09/2008 13:16
Apple computers

mailinator, you know how people that are overly homophobic are often surpressing their homosexuality?

i think you are such a closet apple lover.

pierrequiroule Posted on 01/09/2008 13:17
Apple computers

"macs are just as able to crash, get infected with viruses and NOT WORK."

The first and last things may be true, but i have 3 and they rarely crash and have NEVER broken down. As for viruses, now you're completely showing your ignorance. It's you that wears the chip trod.

Mick, save us all some bother and buy another PC FFS.

mickbrown Posted on 01/09/2008 13:18
Apple computers

Feck it, I'm going to convert my PC to Linux instead.

mailinator Posted on 01/09/2008 13:19
Apple computers

I can't be arsed. Bottom line is that apple cannot run the software I want. The idea that they don't have bugs and viruses is a joke.

Mick, try ubuntu linux - it's ace.

the_hagbard_elite Posted on 01/09/2008 13:23
Apple computers

mailinator, there's a perfectly good link tool on the message composition page, why not use it?

i'm not a liar.

*mailinator scurries off trying to find some malicious code to exploit over the tintermaweb*

i think you love the fact that windows machines don't work so that you can put the time in to figure out all the glitches and feel superior to your fellow pc user.

macs still rule.

mailinator Posted on 01/09/2008 13:24
Apple computers

Errr, hang on a second. It's a computer lads, so calm down a bit. I think throwing around homophobic insults is a little harsh, don't you?

If I'm ignorant of viruses, are you telling me that the mac does not have them?

flaps Posted on 01/09/2008 13:24
Apple computers

It's a lie to claim you're as likely to get a virus on a Mac as a Windows PC.

the_hagbard_elite Posted on 01/09/2008 13:24
Apple computers

mailinator is a rascal post editor. what happened to your macfixit link?

edit, didn't say you were homophobic or gay, i used that as an analogy for your apple hating stance.

find me a mac user that's suffered from a virus.

Smoggy_Brigand Posted on 01/09/2008 13:25
Apple computers

I see very little point in Macs now aside from getting a machine that looks snazzy.

The original point to a Mac was they used a PowerPC architecture that was better for work related aplications... it was particularly good at image/video manipulation. Because of this it was a favourite of artists and designers and gained some 'cool' factor from their usage.

Now that they are seen as cool Apple needs software that's going to pull in the general user. Things like games were a bear to convert to PowerPC machines and there weren't many machines using them on the market so Apple has switched to Intel x86 so that stuff can be ported easily to the Mac. By switching it's lost the better application performace for a greater software library.

So why get one? People get them for the cool factor and because as Apple say "they work". Well... the more people that get them then the worse they will work.

Mac's OS is riddled with bugs and security vunerabilities however they aren't exploited as the gains aren't worth it. More users means more reason to exploit the bugs and make Macs go down the tube. If Apples get popular enough then there will be the same problems with them as there are with Windows based PCs due to there actualy being a point in doing so.

Loosing the PowerPC set up lost the only real reason to buy Mac. Just get a cheaper PC and actually look after it properly and you will have no trouble.

mailinator Posted on 01/09/2008 13:26
Apple computers

hagbard, I'd actually posted a message with two links in but this board software seems to be very good at completely losing whole chunks of posts. So in the end, I decided against posting the urls for virus scanners and mac troubleshooting sites as they don't exist, of course.

Smoggy_Brigand Posted on 01/09/2008 13:26
Apple computers

Damn it... why does this sodding site keep cutting off my posts. Grrr.

Get_your_rat_out Posted on 01/09/2008 13:27
Apple computers

no its not flaps

why anyone would want to buy a mac for something a windows laptop can do for alot cheaper is beyond me

main reason window's PC's and Laptops break isnt because windows is crap, its because of the idiots using them

ajay87 Posted on 01/09/2008 13:27
Apple computers

Mac user here.

Worth the cost.

Never had any time of virus, spyware or any other S***e to deal with on my mac in 6 years.

95% of the world computers are windows based. Why would someone bother writing virus / spyware for the 5% when they can write a easier one to effect 95% of them.

There are viruses for mac, however in very very very small number compared to windows.

The operating system is far far superior.

The hardware is quality, and the product quality made.

Apple software is overall some of the best software i have ever used.

That is all.

flaps Posted on 01/09/2008 13:28
Apple computers

There is a virus checker available for mobile phones, and plenty of phone fixing sites - are they as prone to viruses as windows PCs? Of course not.

Windows PC and Macs both have their merits, and each has its place. Personally, I prefer the OS X interface to windows.

If you think that Apple computers have the same level of virus/malware/trojans/worms etc as Windows you really don't know what you're talking about.

flaps Posted on 01/09/2008 13:29
Apple computers

"no its not flaps"

Of course it bloody is.

fishface101 Posted on 01/09/2008 13:29
Apple computers

mallinator i work in media & i can absolutely gurantee PC does not work as soon as you start using anything thats starts to eat into the cpu you have had it bang crash

I started with a PC & to be honest i spent more time getting things to work than getting any work done how did i solve this well easy i ditched my PC & spent my hard earned cash on a Mac problem solved easy never looked back

as for the virus thing I have had a trojan on my macbook pro the thing for me was how easy it was to remove it not like on a pc where i would have to spend more money on an antivirus programme from a company who probably created the virus in the first place

most used buttons on a PC keyboard
ctrl+alt_del

mickbrown if your wanting to have a mess around with garageband or any other music app make sure it has a minimum of 2gb of ram

cancom seem to be cheapest i can find


Link: macbook

ajay87 Posted on 01/09/2008 13:30
Apple computers


So why get one? People get them for the cool factor and because as Apple say "they work". Well... the more people that get them then the worse they will work."

How do you hell do you work this one out?!?!

More people buy macs, more money apple have to develop their OS.

mailinator Posted on 01/09/2008 13:31
Apple computers

ajay, can I run a clustered database server on it? Plus a web server? Can it run managed code applications using the same language as the code I write for handheld devices that talk to them?

I presume no but I'll be told that macs aren't really for that sort of thing. I just want a machine that does what I want, rather than mocks me for not using it for what it is good at.

pierrequiroule Posted on 01/09/2008 13:32
Apple computers

"If I'm ignorant of viruses, are you telling me that the mac does not have them?"

Did I say that? I've had one in 12 years (the worm) and I don't use anti-virus software.

flaps Posted on 01/09/2008 13:33
Apple computers

"ajay, can I run a clustered database server on it? Plus a web server?"

Are you saying you'd run these things on Windows Xp or Vista?

Get_your_rat_out Posted on 01/09/2008 13:33
Apple computers

"95% of the world computers are windows based. Why would someone bother writing virus / spyware for the 5% when they can write a easier one to effect 95% of them."

you've just shot yourself in the F***ing foot there

how can you say mac's are better when 95% of the world says theyre not

Smoggy_Brigand Posted on 01/09/2008 13:34
Apple computers

If you read the rest you will see it.

Mac OS is based off a linux kernel. It is esentialy a linux box with apple's interface. I'm a games programmer and I've worked on linux, windows and mac OS code. Mac's actual OS had more holes than a termite hive and get fixed less offten than most Linux distros and even windows updates.

The reason it will work less is the same reason you said. There is no point at the moment to make viruses or exploits for Mac machines as the returns aren't good enough.

More people get macs, more point making viruses and the worse it gets as you will have the same amount of idiots on macs as you have on PCs.

flaps Posted on 01/09/2008 13:35
Apple computers

99% of the world don't own Ferraris - they must be terrible cars.


The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 01/09/2008 13:36
Apple computers

"how can you say mac's are better when 95% of the world says theyre not"

Girls Aloud have had numerous number ones, Vinni Reily has had none. Who is the better musician?

Just because something is popular, doesnt make it better.

flaps Posted on 01/09/2008 13:36
Apple computers

"Mac OS is based off a linux kernel"

No it's not. It's based on Darwin which is FreeBSD based.


You might be a games programmer, but you don't appear to have a clue. Stick to the Java Solitaire clones.

bear66 Posted on 01/09/2008 13:36
Apple computers

If you have a PC, download a linux livecd - it will boot and run independently of your hardrive so you can't 'harm' anything - if you like it, install it. Having spent a day last week cleaning up a fiend's laptop of trojans and viruses, the linux replacement was the preferred way to go. If you don't like it, forget it. No worms, viruses, trojans, anti-virus, anti-spyware on linux here in 3 years of use.

I'd try sidux linux as that's what I usually install for people who want the latest, greatest . . . but ubuntu is a popular alternative

the_hagbard_elite Posted on 01/09/2008 13:36
Apple computers

mailinator, why didn't you just say that mac don't run the software you need and leave it at that then?

what you do is get involved in any thread that mentions macs and tell people they are rubbish. which is out of order, what if in your vitriol you've put someone off getting a mac when in actual fact a mac may be just what they need. you may have stifled someones creativity or productivity for no good reason.


mailinator Posted on 01/09/2008 13:37
Apple computers

flaps, I know exactly what I'm talking about. People make out that there is something fundamentally different about macs that makes them immune to viruses. You are claiming that less incentive to make them makes macs somehow less vulnerable.

fishface:

"mallinator i work in media & i can absolutely gurantee PC does not work as soon as you start using anything thats starts to eat into the cpu you have had it bang crash"

You need to speak to whoever supports the software because I can quite easily push my quad core to 100% for hours on end without it crashing.

"as for the virus thing I have had a trojan on my macbook pro the thing for me was how easy it was to remove it not like on a pc where i would have to spend more money on an antivirus programme from a company who probably created the virus in the first place"

I have a free virus checker so there goes your whole argument. I fail to see what is hard about having to red the message that it has removed x security threats.

"most used buttons on a PC keyboard
ctrl+alt_del"

I think you are *just* a little out of date.

Pinkers Posted on 01/09/2008 13:39
Apple computers

Mick, have a look on the Apple refurb store, quite a bit cheaper than brand new.


Link: Apple Refurb

flaps Posted on 01/09/2008 13:39
Apple computers

"People make out that there is something fundamentally different about macs that makes them immune to viruses."

There you go again. You are clueless.

Until Windows Vista there *was* something fundamentally different in the way Windows operates compared to Unix and it's derivatives - the run level of the user which allowed software limitless access to the OS. Vista has gone some way to addressing this with UAC.

Get_your_rat_out Posted on 01/09/2008 13:40
Apple computers

so your comparing a £100,000+ car to a £1,000 laptop? [:D] F*** me

if the 95% didnt think windows was any good they'd switch to mac, but the fact is they dont because windows is better. end of thread.


ajay87 Posted on 01/09/2008 13:40
Apple computers

how can you say mac's are better when 95% of the world says theyre not"

Ow, my foot...

Because the commercial market do not know any different - or they certainly didn't when the boom of the home computer took off. Windows got shoved down everyone's throat by the shops who were all payed large cuts of sales to do so - both from software and OS (windows) and by hardware made by many many different companies.

Have you ever used a mac Rat? for a decent amount of time?

mailinator Posted on 01/09/2008 13:40
Apple computers

hagbard, I'll post where I like. If people insist on lying about stuff to big up their purchase then I'll come in with some facts. Obviously, this was a bad move because people start losing it and comparing you with a sexually repressed closet homosexual. You are worse than scientologists.

"Are you saying you'd run these things on Windows Xp or Vista?"

I have and do run them on both. Vista right now.

flaps Posted on 01/09/2008 13:41
Apple computers

"if the 95% didnt think windows was any good they'd switch to mac, but the fact is they dont because windows is better. end of thread."

For a variety of reasons Windows is the better choice for the business market, which accounts for Windows massive market share.

Smoggy_Brigand Posted on 01/09/2008 13:41
Apple computers

" "Mac OS is based off a linux kernel"

No it's not. It's based on Darwin which is FreeBSD based. "

Ment to type UNIX. Was in full on type mode and put Linux in instead.

flaps Posted on 01/09/2008 13:42
Apple computers

"Ment to type UNIX. Was in full on type mode and put Linux in instead."

Twice? Don't try and bullS*** your way out of it.

mailinator Posted on 01/09/2008 13:45
Apple computers

flaps, you always could run windows as an unprivileged user and this level of user control was available since Windows NT which is now 15 years old. So just chill your bones with your "you are clueless" comments daft lad.

ajay87 Posted on 01/09/2008 13:46
Apple computers

if the 95% didnt think windows was any good they'd switch to mac, but the fact is they dont because windows is better. end of thread.

For some users windows suits them to the ground - and most people now are actually USED to having computers problems! Ohhh another virus, lets get norton scanning again. Most don't know much about apple computers, however many more people are looking at them now as they get more recognised from iphones, ipods etc.

Look, i used windows for a very long time, and still do occasionally. For what i use a computer for though a mac suited me so much better - and from my experience, Mac and Mac OSx is by far the superior system.

the_hagbard_elite Posted on 01/09/2008 13:46
Apple computers

mailinator, why are you referring to lies all the time?

i don't think anyone on here is lying.

in my opinion apples are better than pc's. in my experience, i've never had a systems crash or a virus. in my opinion apples are worth the extra money.

is any of that a lie?


mailinator Posted on 01/09/2008 13:49
Apple computers

Well I think people are being economic with the truth. The original thread was about getting a mac and in came a load of sweeping statements about how much better it was. When I point out that what I need to do cannot be done on a mac, I get told "why didn't you say you needed it for that?"

Imagine if mick had bought one and found he couldn't do his work on it. It would have been his fault for not piping up about what he wanted it to do I suppose then? Because none of you checked what he actually wanted it for before dismissing MS based systems and gushing unconditionally from another company who deal in closed systems, enforce monopolies and remove choice for the consumer. Hey, I guess its ok if your CEO wears polonecks though....

the_hagbard_elite Posted on 01/09/2008 13:57
Apple computers

mailinator -in that case, i think your being economical with the content of this thread.

micks first point was that he was sick of viruses, apple users are not out of line or off topic to say they are not a problem on macs.

you didn't point out that macs don't do what you wanted until you'd slagged them off for crashing not working and getting viruses which most of us mac users would naturally take exception to... like i said in an earlier post, i think you're full of sh!t, but that's just my opinion.

i've never read a football related thread where you p!ssed me off though, so that's ok then.

Pinkers Posted on 01/09/2008 13:59
Apple computers

GYRO - you're argument is stupid. More people use Windows so it's better? Do me a favour.

It's horses for courses. If you want to do anything creative a Mac is a better machine, because it's built with those kind of functions in mind. My mate wants to buy a lapatop to set up with ProTools and use as a portable recording studio. In theory a windows machine will do it, although you have to spec carefully and spend a lot of time setting it up. A Mac just works out of the box.

Fishfasce point about Macs been quicker and less crash prone when editing multimedia is 100% true in my experience. Plus the software for this kind of thing is far superior. There is nothing anywhere near as good as Final Cut Pro for instance for video editing on Windows.

I also prefer OSX operating system, as it doesn't ask me stupid questions every 5 mins.

mailinator Posted on 01/09/2008 14:03
Apple computers

Hagbard, fine, stick to the personal insults. You are really covering yourself in glory here.

Mick, get a mac, if you don't you'll be called a gay and accused of being full of S*** when the first post you do on the thread says "I work with a windows pc each and every day to get my job done and I could not do that with a mac."

Just for you hagbard:

"I work with a windows pc each and every day to get my job done and I could not do that with a mac."

Yes, I really said that. You keep accusing me of lying though if it makes you feel better.


flaps Posted on 01/09/2008 14:05
Apple computers

"I have and do run them on both. Vista right now."

So you're telling me you run a production web server and a clustered database on Windows XP? Are you mental?

For what it's worth, you could run both on OSX, not that anyone with sense would run server software on workstation hardware/software in a production environment.

flaps Posted on 01/09/2008 14:06
Apple computers

"flaps, you always could run windows as an unprivileged user and this level of user control was available since Windows NT which is now 15 years old. So just chill your bones with your "you are clueless" comments daft lad"

You're demonstrating a total ignorance of Windows architecture while spouting about Viral risks in different environments but feel able to call me daft lad? Priceless.

Get one of those dummies books, sounds about your level sunshine.

scare_glow Posted on 01/09/2008 14:07
Apple computers

i would use a mac but i'm afraid i might turn into one of those over zealous mac users who can't help getting his cheque book out

Dynamo Posted on 01/09/2008 14:07
Apple computers

Bring back the Amiga. It would still be the best computer around today if only Commadore had understood its potential and spent some money on it instead of frittering all the profits they made from it into their ailing PC brand and eventually going bankrupt.

fishface101 Posted on 01/09/2008 14:08
Apple computers

All i know is this all my problems I had when working with computers were all solved when i ditched windows & switched to Macs

The company i worked for they perceviered for years with PC's nothing but trouble they then ditched the PC's for Macs never looked back.

It was a media college i worked at & while they had windows there was nothing but problems students surfing the net viruses getting through & the student server which at the time was windows used to go down regular on a system less than 4 years old i dont remember a week where the IT guy had to call in the people who set up the system.

They solved this problem by changing over to Apples Xserv & installing imacs at all workstations it was so succesfull they even put the IT guys hours down to part time

So what your saying mallinator is ctrl+alt+del doesnt bring up the task manager any more?

I have a free virus checker so there goes your whole argument. I fail to see what is hard about having to red the message that it has removed x security threats

Before i did change over to Mac i never ever came across a free virus checker that worked they would always find the virus but to remove it i aways got redirected to a site where if i paid them they would remove it

& how did i solve that problem yes you guessed it I changed to Mac

Also now seeing as I am now apple certified to teach there software i wont really be going back to PC in the near future even if windows started making 16core 62gb of ram & it could make the tea i still wouldnt go back

Macs once you learn them i think are 100 times easier to use than PC


mailinator Posted on 01/09/2008 14:09
Apple computers

I'm a developer. Why would I develop new software on production hardware? I know you are desperate to save some face and gain a little victory but I didn't mention "production environment" at any point.

The important point is that I *am* running a database cluster, web server and web site on an xp machine and on a vista machine and all the software is the same version that we'll be using on production.

I can't run ASP.NET managed code applications on OSX so don't be silly.

mailinator Posted on 01/09/2008 14:10
Apple computers

flaps, you really could run as an unprivileged user on NT. Why on Earth are you continuing to dismiss it? You're terribly naive in pursuit of scoring some points.

flaps Posted on 01/09/2008 14:14
Apple computers

Of course you can run as an unprivileged user on Windows NT OSes. The problem is in XP (the first NT based consumer OS) the vast majority of people ran as Admin level accounts - because the OS expected you to be. Running as admin was the expected norm, hence the huge virus problem on Windows.

If you think that most home Windows XP users are running as limited accounts I'm afraid the only naive person here is you.

Unix derived OSes with their default superuser/user model, with user accounts running without root privileges, are inherently more secure and one of the reasons why viruses aren't a big problem on Unix OSes compared to Windows.

mailinator Posted on 01/09/2008 14:14
Apple computers

fishface:

"So what your saying mallinator is ctrl+alt+del doesnt bring up the task manager any more?"

No. You lot really need to stop putting words in my mouth. You said they were the most used keys which is alluding to the machines always needing resetting. I never have to do this. I'm not lying - I'm really not. What may have once been true not now but you don't want to change your opinions.

"Before i did change over to Mac i never ever came across a free virus checker that worked they would always find the virus but to remove it i aways got redirected to a site where if i paid them they would remove it"

Well you've been unlucky because both avg and avast produce free versions that do not do this.

mailinator Posted on 01/09/2008 14:17
Apple computers

That's right flaps, you keep banging on about that and ignore the other points I blew right out of the water.


flaps Posted on 01/09/2008 14:18
Apple computers

"That's right flaps, you keep banging on about that and ignore the other points I blew right out of the water."

What other points?

the_hagbard_elite Posted on 01/09/2008 14:21
Apple computers

mailinator - i didn't insult you, i said you were full of sh!t and i said that only after i'd pointed out why you were being economical with the content of this thread. i.e. proved why you were full of sh!t.

i am covering myself in glory as part of the mailinator anti bullsh!t enforcement squad.

i have nothing against you, i just don't like what you say or how you say it.

i know you pride yourself on being a bit of a techie but you've made your position clearer with each post and topic deflection, you're style of discussion is similar to on_the_maps.


flaps Posted on 01/09/2008 14:22
Apple computers

Oh here we are:

"The important point is that I *am* running a database cluster, web server and web site on an xp machine and on a vista machine and all the software is the same version that we'll be using on production."

I can't run ASP.NET managed code applications on OSX so don't be silly."

You could run those things on OSX if you wanted to, either natively or through virtualisation, not that I'm suggesting you do.

As a Windows web app developer of course you're going to want to use Windows to develop the software. Your situation is hardly typical, and a poor reason for suggesting that OSX is not up to the job for which it is designed - that of being a home consumer operating system.

I don't know why you have to be so blinkered and fanboyish. I use both OSes and both have their good and bad points.

You might want to ask your IT department for a development server because:

"all the software is the same version that we'll be using on production"

trust me, you won't be using Windows XP or Vista as production servers.

flaps Posted on 01/09/2008 14:24
Apple computers

"i know you pride yourself on being a bit of a techie but you've made your position with each post and topic deflection, you're style of discussion is similar to on_the_maps."

It is a bit odd. "I develop Windows web applications so OSX is rubbish". It's like saying a Focus is crap because you can't fit a lorry-load of gravel in the boot.

bear66 Posted on 01/09/2008 14:26
Apple computers

Back to the original thread - mickbrown doesn't like viruses on his Windows PC and a bit later he wouldn't mind Garage Band but macs are expensive . . . .

If you have a PC and an internet connection :

download a sidux lived (free) and boot it in your PC - you will now have a free linux operating system running on your computer independently of your hard drive - you'll find you can do most office jobs at this point with a system that can theoreticall get viruses but I've never come across anyone who has (with no anti this or anti that sogtware needed)

then, you can't get garage band as it's for a mac but try jokosher - it's free, just download it and run it

you'll then see that a 'safe', fast operating system with as much free software as you like can be yours - if you like it, look at the excellent sidux maual and install it - if not, forget it and yearn for a mac . . .

24 hour help available if you have any problems . . . . .

the_hagbard_elite Posted on 01/09/2008 14:27
Apple computers

flaps that was for mailinator , i agree with all you have said.

flaps Posted on 01/09/2008 14:27
Apple computers

I know hagbard, I was expanding on your point.

the_hagbard_elite Posted on 01/09/2008 14:28
Apple computers

oh! cool.

fishface101 Posted on 01/09/2008 14:37
Apple computers

"So what your saying mallinator is ctrl+alt+del doesnt bring up the task manager any more?"

No. You lot really need to stop putting words in my mouth. You said they were the most used keys which is alluding to the machines always needing resetting. I never have to do this. I'm not lying - I'm really not. What may have once been true not now but you don't want to change your opinions.

CHOMP why does this always wind up windows users I can remember we replaced a workmates keyboard with a keyboard we had modified we basically took all the keys off except the ctrl+alt+del keys on his windows workstation

He wasnt happy He ranted something about it then didnt speak to any of us for a week it was funny though

I think anyone who defends windows like this is probably scared of change it isnt easy to change from PC to Mac it took me a little while basically I always say learn both sytems & make a choice as to which is the better OS when you learn them

I always recommend Mac as i really do think it is easier to use & i made this decision after i was able to use both

mallinator you use windows & PC as it works for you like I said in my first post it all comes down to what you use it for if your happy with using windows based computing & it works for you then great the main thing is the computer does what you want it to do

All this Mac is better than PC is pointless really its like beer is better than lager red wine is better than white one mans drink is another mans poison & all that anyone thinking about buying a computer try both & make your mind up (as long as its Macs [;)]

mailinator Posted on 01/09/2008 14:37
Apple computers

It's beyond me why you are continuing to insist I could run the software I need on OSX, I can't. Tell me how I can run my asp.net applications on OSX. Virtualisation? "Hi boss, lets replace all our windows machines with macs and then run windows under a virtual machine" - he'd call for the men in white coats.

Now you can say that I should just choose to use another development methodology, but what exactly would we gain by ditching the current one and moving to macs?

And when I said I would be using the same version of software, I *will* be using the same web server build, same db server build, same .net framework and same website code. Carry on arguing with me over my own development set-up but I guarantee I know more about it than you.

mailinator Posted on 01/09/2008 14:38
Apple computers

"CHOMP"

Ah, you were just looking for a bite? Well I suppose saying I said one thing when I didn't usually gets that response.

flaps Posted on 01/09/2008 14:44
Apple computers

"It's beyond me why you are continuing to insist I could run the software I need on OSX, I can't. Tell me how I can run my asp.net applications on OSX. Virtualisation? "Hi boss, lets replace all our windows machines with macs and then run windows under a virtual machine" - he'd call for the men in white coats.

Now you can say that I should just choose to use another development methodology, but what exactly would we gain by ditching the current one and moving to macs?"

I don't think you should for one second. You could shoehorn any Windows app to work in OSX in one fashion or another, but for you this would be a terrible idea. You are absolutely right to prefer Windows for what you do.

I have not insisted you should run the software you use under OSX, continually or otherwise.

However, none of that makes OSX worse than Windows. It's just not right for you.

None of that makes OSX suddenly as vulnerable to Viruses as Windows, when demonstrably - for a number of reasons - it is not. I dare say none of the reasons that make Windows essential for you and how you work apply to more than a tiny percentage of visitors to this forum, if any at all.

You need to stop putting words into my mouth, and stop with the fanboyism.


"And when I said I would be using the same version of software, I *will* be using the same web server build, same db server build, same .net framework and same website code. Carry on arguing with me over my own development set-up but I guarantee I know more about it than you."

You claim to be running the same software as when it will be in production. As you are running it under Windows XP and Vista - which nobody would use in a production environment - you clearly can not be.

Space_Face Posted on 01/09/2008 14:49
Apple computers

This is why Mac users are generally thought of as a bunch of doyles.

fishface101 Posted on 01/09/2008 14:51
Apple computers

mailinator you could if you really wanted to change your servers to OSX it all comes down to the cost of changing over the systems if you or your company have invested heavily in windows based systems then going in & asking to change over they probably wouldnt send for the men in white coats but they ould have a furkin good laugh at it

You dont work for those useless B******s who are supposed to provide us with matchday commantary that we pay for which is set up for windows only

I have contacted them several times as to why in 2008 they do not support OSX & there reply was it would cost them too much to change over there sytems to support OSX

CrookedRainCrookedRain Posted on 01/09/2008 14:52
Apple computers

I use a mac and it has NEVER crashed or frozen on me. Also never had any form of virus or spyware. Where as i've had nothing but trouble with all my Windows computers.

Just preference though. I use Macs because they're better for music production in the studios. I suppose if i was an office worker, i'd use windows because its better for that.

simon1 Posted on 01/09/2008 14:54
Apple computers

I've been a Mac convert for over 4 years now after owning pc's before that. I now have 3 Macs and all running well. I much prefer the operating sytem of osx to windows and the general applications like I Life.

Go on Mick, you know you want to




Link: Apple

mickbrown Posted on 01/09/2008 14:58
Apple computers

bear66 - ta for that - will give it a go.


mailinator Posted on 01/09/2008 15:03
Apple computers

flaps, I know I'm repeating myself here but I installed MS SQL server on a windows xp and vista development machine. It is the EXACT SAME VERSION that is in use in production. There's no other way to put it.

sparkins Posted on 01/09/2008 15:22
Apple computers

Rarely have I read a thread which I understand less. I had no idea operating systems could whip grown men up into such a state of frenzy.

karembeu_ca Posted on 01/09/2008 15:26
Apple computers

FFS, what a vitriolic thread, and I thought the ant-Aliadiere lot were bad!

the VAST majority of issues with Windows-based PC's are directly attributable to PEBKAC - Problem Exists Between Keyboard and Chair

that said, MAC OS's have always handled memory and HD much better than Windows.

sparkins Posted on 01/09/2008 15:30
Apple computers

I started off reading it and didn't understand, but it became like a James Elroy novel with twists and turns, accusations, verbal threats and misunderstood analogies, so I stuck with it right to the end.

the_hagbard_elite Posted on 01/09/2008 15:35
Apple computers

well played sparkins!

pierrequiroule Posted on 01/09/2008 16:19
Apple computers

"FFS, what a vitriolic thread, and I thought the ant-Aliadiere lot were bad!"

And do you know what the common denominator is on every thread where Macs are mentioned and it ends up in a slanging match - mailinator/trodbitch - the board's Mr Grumpy.

flaps Posted on 01/09/2008 16:27
Apple computers

"windows xp and vista development machine. It is the EXACT SAME VERSION that is in use in production. "

You don't seem to understand the difference between a workstation and server OS, even though you're supposed to be in web app development. No point continuing to talk to you about this really.

I'll repeat myself for your benefit. Your development environment is not the same as your production environment. This is an undesirable situation.

sparkins Posted on 01/09/2008 16:31
Apple computers

Excellent, the next installment.

All of the geeks where I work are nowhere near as wild as this lot.

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 01/09/2008 16:33
Apple computers

Wait until they start arguing over who has seen Star Wars the most times, or who has the most Buffy t-shirts.

Ribena everywhere.

mailinator Posted on 01/09/2008 16:36
Apple computers

"You don't seem to understand the difference between a workstation and server OS, even though you're supposed to be in web app development. No point continuing to talk to you about this really."

I understand perfectly well that a workstation os is not the same as a production server os. What you have repeatedly failed to grasp is that installing SQL Server onto my workstation provides the same version of SQL server that I have on the production environment. So if I developed on a mac, I would not be able to run MS SQL server on the machine meaning I would not be able to mirror the production environment. You can't half tell you don't work in development.

"I'll repeat myself for your benefit. Your development environment is not the same as your production environment. This is an undesirable situation."

I didn't say it was. You only keep repeating yourself because you've misunderstood the point I was making.

You see I use IIS7, SQL Server 2005 and ASP.NET. All these things are installed on my workstation and are all installed from the same media on our production environment. The mistake YOU are making is thinking that SQL Server is an OS, that's the only way I can make sense of your continuing argument that the SQL server on production is different in any way to the one on my dev box.

mailinator Posted on 01/09/2008 16:38
Apple computers

"And do you know what the common denominator is on every thread where Macs are mentioned and it ends up in a slanging match - mailinator/trodbitch - the board's Mr Grumpy."

From the person that started comparing people to repressed homosexuals, that's a bit rich.

the_hagbard_elite Posted on 01/09/2008 16:41
Apple computers

that wasn't him, it was me.

you still are having trouble understanding the difference between an analogy and a simile.

i stand by my analogy, there's nothing to feel rich or poor about.

you know you would love a sleek tasty imac and you know it.

mailinator Posted on 01/09/2008 16:45
Apple computers

Next you'll be comparing me to Hitler.

the_hagbard_elite Posted on 01/09/2008 16:46
Apple computers

fool.

mailinator Posted on 01/09/2008 16:48
Apple computers

I can't really be arsed exchanging insults with you. It's a shame you've had to repeatedly resort to such childish tactics. I'll have to check back later to see if flaps has apologised for getting it totally wrong. I won't hold my breath.

the_hagbard_elite Posted on 01/09/2008 16:53
Apple computers

fool.

mailinator Posted on 01/09/2008 17:00
Apple computers

A link for you:




Link: here

pierrequiroule Posted on 01/09/2008 17:01
Apple computers

"From the person that started comparing people to repressed homosexuals, that's a bit rich."

Err, no insults from me matey, unless 'Mr Grumpy' upsets you - but I'll forgive you. I think you might be confusing me with someone else.

mailinator Posted on 01/09/2008 17:03
Apple computers

Actually, I did confuse you with him. I apologise. Especially in light of his rather odd behaviour as that's quite a sleight.

Mr Grumpy does not upset me. I tend to engage in threads that involve an argument and some debate rather than ones with people all agreeing with each other.

pierrequiroule Posted on 01/09/2008 17:07
Apple computers

Go on trod, admit it, you are just a teeny weeny bit grumpy, well sharp if you prefer - or even bitchy like your username? Just an observation - I can be as sharp as your good self should the need arise - cheers for now.

karembeu_ca Posted on 01/09/2008 17:07
Apple computers

"Ribena everywhere." [:D]

flaps Posted on 01/09/2008 17:09
Apple computers

"You see I use IIS7, SQL Server 2005 and ASP.NET. All these things are installed on my workstation and are all installed from the same media on our production environment. The mistake YOU are making is thinking that SQL Server is an OS, that's the only way I can make sense of your continuing argument that the SQL server on production is different in any way to the one on my dev box."

Do you not understand the term 'environment' in this context?

I know perfectly well what SQL server is. And what an OS is. Hence my point that your production ENVIRONMENT is not the same as your development ENVIRONMENT because they are DIFFERENT operating systems.

Yes you are running the same software, but under DIFFERENT operating systems. Is this clear enough for you?

You can't half tell you do work in development, although I'd have thought even a code monkey like you could have managed the basics by now. You have a pretty ropey setup - running server software locally on your workstation instead of a proper development server.

I await with amusement your argument that 'it makes no difference'.


mailinator Posted on 01/09/2008 17:10
Apple computers

I'm grumpy at times but happy at times. Most people are more complicated than a myopic view obtained from a message board. I'm also serious about my convictions on certain matters, especially when it comes to someone such as flaps calling into question my professional expertise. Seems he has sloped off now, shame he isn't grown up enough to admit he misunderstood my point.

skiptonboro Posted on 01/09/2008 17:12
Apple computers

Mailinator is Trodbitch?

No wonder a fairly innoccuous thread containing the word "Apple" suddenly rocketed to over 100 posts.

Just need YodaTheCoda to appear and take to over a thousand!

flaps Posted on 01/09/2008 17:14
Apple computers

"when it comes to someone such as flaps calling into question my professional expertise"

Well let's see. You think your requirements as a web app developer are somehow relevant to the standard home computer user. You believe Windows and Macs are equally at risk to viruses. You don't understand computer environments, and the inherent differences between server/workstation operating systems. You don't understand basic differences between Unix-derived and NT operating systems, and how them impact upon system security. You are myopic, blinkered and a fanboy who takes personal offence at the thought of using anything other than a computer setup within your comfort zone. You don't understand the benefit of a genuine development setup as oppose to a few server apps thrown onto a PC.

So if you do have professional expertise beyond spitting out a few Microsoft server product names, I've yet to see them demonstrated in this thread.

mailinator Posted on 01/09/2008 17:17
Apple computers

flaps, you are arguing a completely different point. I initially said that I needed to run the same version of sql server, iis and asp.net on my development environment as I do on the live one and that this is essential for the applications to work once they are deployed. My statement about you not working in development is valid because if you develop in a cut-down version of some server software, you get problems when you deploy.

You then (for some reason) assumed that I had said I was using my development machine as a production environment? When did I say any of this? Seriously, what *are* you on about? You are arguing about a point that no-one has raised.

My development setup is on a laptop so I'm afraid lugging around a dev server isn't really convenient. However, it is very convenient to develop locally on sql server 2005, IIS 7 and asp.net as it's the exact same version that runs on top of our production servers. I'll keep repeating it, and you can keep repeating your argument about that point that no-one has raised.

mailinator Posted on 01/09/2008 17:19
Apple computers

flaps, your last post is a joke. I'm not going to continue to humour your blatant fishing expedition any further as it's utterly childish and pathetic.

"Well let's see. You think your requirements as a web app developer are somehow relevant to the standard home computer user."

They aren't but my point is that you should find out what the requirements are before recommending a system.

"You believe Windows and Macs are equally at risk to viruses."

In that there is nothing inherent about OSX that makes it immune to viruses as a lot of users claim it to be.

"You don't understand computer environments, and the inherent differences between server/workstation operating systems."

I do, but you think SQL Server is an OS. I understand that it is an application that can be installed on XP, Vista and the MS server OSes.

"You don't understand basic differences between Unix-derived and NT operating systems, and how them impact upon system security."

I do. I simply said that you could run as an unprivileged user on NT. Most users on NT were running like this.

"You are myopic, blinkered and a fanboy who takes personal offence at the thought of using anything other than a computer setup within your comfort zone."

You are conveniently forgetting my recommendation of using ubuntu linux then. Some fanboy I am.

"You don't understand the benefit of a genuine development setup as oppose to a few server apps thrown onto a PC."

You don't understand the difference between a development IDE and a staging/testing environment, clearly.

PinkPonce Posted on 01/09/2008 17:19
Apple computers

I bought the black macbook cos it looked nice. Couldn't give a fook what it does.

Mick - a little trick for you. Type Dixonstaxfree in google. Find the one you want. Go into Currys and tell them that you are flying out of heathrow next week and can they beat that price.

They will.

pierrequiroule Posted on 01/09/2008 17:21
Apple computers

" Mr Grumpy does not upset me. I tend to engage in threads that involve an argument and some debate rather than ones with people all agreeing with each other. "

To be honest, I pÔss myself laughing when someone puts up an innocuous-looking post and you snap their head off. I'd put a smiley, but you must know that I refuse to use them.

flaps Posted on 01/09/2008 17:23
Apple computers

"My statement about you not working in development is valid because if you develop in a cut-down version of some server software, you get problems when you deploy."

When have I suggested you use 'cut down versions of server software'?

"You then (for some reason) assumed that I had said I was using my development machine as a production environment?"

When did I say this?

"My development setup is on a laptop so I'm afraid lugging around a dev server isn't really convenient. However, it is very convenient to develop locally on sql server 2005, IIS 7 and asp.net as it's the exact same version that runs on top of our production servers."

Oh ffs. Yes the software is the same but your laptop is not running the same operating system as your production servers.

As for 'lugging around a server' - have you heard of this magical thing called the Internet and remote access?

You sound like a bit of a hobbyist-turned-pro web site tinkerer. I'd love to see some examples of your work.



flaps Posted on 01/09/2008 17:24
Apple computers

"flaps, your last post is a joke. I'm not going to continue to humour your blatant fishing expedition any further as it's utterly childish and pathetic."

Translation: you've been found out as a bullS***ter with only half a clue who's technobabble safety net has been neatly punctured. You better hope I'm not around next time you try to pretend to know what you're talking about.


But then of course, you do continue. Which is odd.

"They aren't but my point is that you should find out what the requirements are before recommending a system."

I can safely say the OP is not a windows-centric web app developer.

"I do, but you think SQL Server is an OS. I understand that it is an application that can be installed on XP, Vista and the MS server OSes."

If that's your interpretion of my posts you have comprehension issues.

"I do. I simply said that you could run as an unprivileged user on NT. Most users on NT were running like this."

And I explained exactly why this is part of the problem with Windows and Viruses, not the solution.

"You don't understand the difference between a development IDE and a staging/testing environment, clearly."

You don't know what an IDE is. It's not a suite of server applications running on a workstation.

mailinator Posted on 01/09/2008 17:27
Apple computers

flaps, when are you going to get it into your head?

SQL Server 2005 on windows xp is the same version of sql server that you get on Microsoft Windows 2008. I've never said anything different and I don't know why you keep trying to make up what you think I have said. I've NEVER said that my laptop or development environment is running the same OS. Show me where I said it or shut the fook up.

I'd love to show you some examples of my work but I don't develop public web sites, sorry.

mailinator Posted on 01/09/2008 17:29
Apple computers

"Show me where I said it or shut the fook up."

Got to go out now but the above stands. Show me where I claimed that my dev os was the same as my production os. I know you feel that you need to try to belittle me as you've realised that backtracking wouldn't look good but show me where I said it.

flaps Posted on 01/09/2008 17:30
Apple computers

"SQL Server 2005 on windows xp is the same version of sql server that you get on Microsoft Windows 2008"

Here's a quick example. Windows XP limits incoming connections to - from memory so i may not be accurate - 10 connections. Windows Server OS's do not do this.

There are many other examples of how the two product lines are different. You may be lucky, and these differences may not affect you, but trust me they are there.

"I've NEVER said that my laptop or development environment is running the same OS. Show me where I said it or shut the fook up."

I've never said you did. You're getting confused.

flaps Posted on 01/09/2008 17:31
Apple computers

"Got to go out now but the above stands. Show me where I claimed that my dev os was the same as my production os. I know you feel that you need to try to belittle me as you've realised that backtracking wouldn't look good but show me where I said it."

Again, I can't show you this because you haven't, and I've never claimed you had. I'd have thought these posts:

"I know perfectly well what SQL server is. And what an OS is. Hence my point that your production ENVIRONMENT is not the same as your development ENVIRONMENT because they are DIFFERENT operating systems.

Yes you are running the same software, but under DIFFERENT operating systems. Is this clear enough for you?"

or

"Oh ffs. Yes the software is the same but your laptop is not running the same operating system as your production servers."

of mine would have given you a clue. You need to learn how to read.

bear66 Posted on 01/09/2008 17:58
Apple computers

mickbrown "ta for that - will give it a go."

Just let us know how you get on.

Once the LiveCD is loaded, look in the manual - sidux is 'pure' and doesn't include 'free but not free for any purpose' software - you'll need to get the non-free (which are free!) sources as indicated in the manual (all commands are made in the monitor icon in the bottom left - click on it (once in Linux!))

type
su
apt-get update && apt-get install jokosher

There's an icon on the main screen with irc - this is your 24 hour help!

mailinator Posted on 01/09/2008 18:21
Apple computers

I need to learn how to read? Ok. Let's just list your posts on the issue I am having to repeat over and over to you but you cannot understand:

Me: "ajay, can I run a clustered database server on it? Plus a web server? Can it run managed code applications using the same language as the code I write for handheld devices that talk to them?"

You: "Are you saying you'd run these things on Windows Xp or Vista?"

Me: "I have and do run them on both. Vista right now."

You - AND THIS IS THE POINT WHERE YOU STARTED GOING ON ABOUT SOME OTHER ARGUMENT:

"So you're telling me you run a production web server and a clustered database on Windows XP? Are you mental?"

I think you are a bit mental, you've spent the remainder of the thread arguing over my classification of a server os and a workstation one all on the back of the above. I didn't even mention production servers. Perhaps if you spent more effort on reading and understanding what others write, you wouldn't have to resort to childish insults about people's competence at their jobs.

Kilburn Posted on 01/09/2008 18:41
Apple computers

I have worked in the IT industry for several years in various organisations, and in various roles including application development and technical architecture. I have rarely in that time found a developer who does his day to day development coding on a server, at least in Windows environments. They might occasionally be running W2K or W2K3 server on desktops or laptops, but much more often W2K or XP. It could get very expensive on a large project providing each of the dev team their own server to terminal service on to to do their work.

When it comes to unit, system, integration testing, then DTE and PPTE should match prod of course, but that's a different kettle of fish.

mailinator Posted on 01/09/2008 18:49
Apple computers

Kilburn, our set up is that we all have individual dev machines so we don't hose each other's dev environments when making changes. We then merge all our changes into source control and make our changes to a staging environment which is pretty much identical to the live production one. All I've said on this thread is that it you need to be using the same version of tools on all instances. IE, sql server 2005 on dev, staging and production in the context that developing on a max osx machine will cause problems as you couldn't use the same version of software.

flaps Posted on 01/09/2008 19:15
Apple computers

"I think you are a bit mental, you've spent the remainder of the thread arguing over my classification of a server os and a workstation one all on the back of the above"

This has nothing to do with the posts I've addressed. In fact, I'm not sure what your point is by now. I've not argued with your classification of any operating system, and I'd love you to quote any post here where I have. I'm not sure what argument you're having, but it's not with my posts.

flaps Posted on 01/09/2008 19:16
Apple computers

"developing on a max osx machine will cause problems as you couldn't use the same version of software."

Has anybody said that *you* should use OSX? I've only said the opposite. Your situation is not typical, but you seem to happy to use it as a staging post for bizarre anti-mac rants.

the_hagbard_elite Posted on 01/09/2008 19:41
Apple computers

mailinator -far from being childish, calling you fool is the only logical thing to do.

everyone join in.

fool.

markd35 Posted on 01/09/2008 19:56
Apple computers

flaps Posted on 01/09/2008 13:35 Email this Message | Reply
Apple computers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
99% of the world don't own Ferraris - they must be terrible cars.


Well actually they are pretty crap cars.
If you were to buy one you would find out that you tend to breakdown more often per mile than most other cars on the road

flaps Posted on 01/09/2008 19:58
Apple computers

Thanks for the advice I'll cancel my order.

mailinator Posted on 01/09/2008 23:57
Apple computers

Well flaps, I'm F***ed if I know what we are arguing about then.

Seems to me that we are both seeing something else in each other's posts and arguing differing points. If we can't even agree what the argument is, we won't agree on the outcome either.

If you belittle me and my work then I'm going to react. If that gives other people a sense of achievement when I bite then fine. I care about what I do for a living, I'm going to react anyway.

Just to summarise, I agree that my own computer "use" case is not exactly typical but that's the only example I can vouch for that goes against the idea that "everyone" would benefit from a change in OS. Add in an argument about two different things, a few posts calling me a fool and posts telling me I don't know my own S***, and you've just about got this thread.

*chomps*

karembeu_ca Posted on 02/09/2008 00:00
Apple computers

this has to be one of the best argment threads ever on FMTTM.

not only did it drag this to well over the ton, but the main combatants are F***ed if they know exactly what they were arguing about... classic FMTTM [:D]

mailinator Posted on 02/09/2008 01:00
Apple computers

Totally baffled mate, steam out of ears earlier and everything.

axel1974 Posted on 02/09/2008 05:25
Apple computers

have been using macs for over 2 years now and unless there are drastic changes i will never buy a windows pc again

i found it such a pain in the arse avoiding viruses and spyware all the time using my old pc. they might be a bit more expensive but its money well spent in my opinion

Timboi Posted on 02/09/2008 05:28
Apple computers

Seriously, don't listen to Mac users. There's something a bit disturbing about their reverence. I personally think they've been given drugs and brainwashed.

delu Posted on 02/09/2008 07:46
Apple computers

For me, the biggest problem is iTunes. You cannot run any other media player on a Mac (without going to a Windows-XP session) and are stuck with iTunes and its entry-level functionality and proprietary standards making it harder to manage any decent music collection (see Media Monkey or WinAmp). Once you convert to iTunes, your playlists and many music files will be incompatible with decent media players on PCs (95% of the world) and a nightmare if you need to sync 2 or more PCs at home for the family.

If you can handle the retro look and rookie image of the Mac, and never want to go back to or network with PCs, a Mac will do the job. But interoperability and interchange seems to need a PC.

P.S. For the record, I've been using PC (and a couple of Macs) for over 20 years and only had one virus attack back in the early 90s. Not a critical drawback of PCs in my opinion.

flaps Posted on 02/09/2008 08:50
Apple computers

"Well flaps, I'm F***ed if I know what we are arguing about then."

Fair enough if you want to back out I understand.

If nothing else you've learnt that Macs are far less vulerable to viruses and have an inkling as to why, so it hasn't been a total waste of time.

flaps Posted on 02/09/2008 08:56
Apple computers

I don't normally bother sticking up for apple but delu's post is so outrageously full of misinformation I can't help it:

"You cannot run any other media player on a Mac (without going to a Windows-XP session)"

Of course you can. VLC? Cog? There's loads of of others.

"its entry-level functionality and proprietary standards making it harder to manage any decent music collection"

I'm not keen on itunes myself, and find it clunky, but I fail to see what it can't do that other players can. Proprietry standards? You can rip everything to MP3.

"Once you convert to iTunes, your playlists and many music files will be incompatible with decent media players on PCs"

Again, use mp3. You don't have to convert anything.

"and a nightmare if you need to sync 2 or more PCs at home for the family."

Not sure what you mean by this, but assuming you mean a shared pool of songs accessed by itunes on a mac and winamp on a pc, you could just get itunes to build its library off a file share.

"If you can handle the retro look and rookie image of the Mac"

Subjective and, IMHO, unfounded. Although retro isn't bad for me as I still use the classic theme on Windows.

"never want to go back to or network with PCs"

OSX accesses SMB shares easily.

"But interoperability and interchange"

Don't now what this is meant to mean.

mickbrown Posted on 02/09/2008 09:17
Apple computers

Jesus, I opened a right can of worms here didn't I?

sixtyniner69 Posted on 02/09/2008 09:24
Apple computers

like wearing a pink shirt

I too old fashioned to have either an apple computer or a pink shirt.


delu Posted on 02/09/2008 10:02
Apple computers

>flaps Posted on 02/09/2008 08:56
>I don't normally bother sticking up for apple but delu's post is
>so outrageously full of misinformation I can't help it:

My issue is that playlists maintained n iTunes cannot be read by other players due to proprietary standards; they do not store music info tags properly (lyrics, artwork, titles, etc.) and so makes them difficult to share with 95% of computers. You are then stuck on iTunes. The functionality is not the worst but misss valuable extras available on PCs (customisations, skins, endless user created add-ons, music queuing, etc.). Maintaining synchronisation with Macs is non-trivial.

I agree that the look is purely subjective and therefore irrelevant to discussions.

sparkins Posted on 02/09/2008 19:15
Apple computers

I am a bit bored of the Geordie soap that is unfolding; please could we have some more updates on this one, it had me gripped for hours yesterday.

the_hagbard_elite Posted on 02/09/2008 19:18
Apple computers

flaps - stop doing something cool and get on here.

mailinator - stop playing world of warcraft and roll your sleeves up.

fight!