permalink for this thread : http://search.catflaporama.com/post/browse/560571
Gibson_Wheres_My_P45 Posted on 01/08/2008 08:38
Southgates Demise

If he doesn't get a Keeper in it could be the reason why he go's , i am not saying i want him out it's just you can not take chances with that position.
I think neither of them are good enough for week in week out Premier League football but Mr Southgate must of seen something in training to suggest otherwise.
Just think it's way to big of a gamble for a young manager to be taking if we start dropping points through goalkeeping errors it will come back to haunt him big time.

skiprat Posted on 01/08/2008 08:41
Southgates Demise

It's not just Southgate, Pears and the rest of the management team also agree according to what I heard on the radio the other day.

I think Turnbull will be ok, it's just him being injured and Jones coming in that I'm worried about.

We definitely aren't getting a new keeper in though, so either way the fans should start to back whoever's in goal because I feel it'll their reaction to the goalkeepers that will do more harm than the potential abilities of either keeper.

Buddy Posted on 01/08/2008 08:44
Southgates Demise

Having listened to the radio programme from the other night in full, I've come to the conclusion that we have probably managed to combine the best chairman in the League with the best manager in the League.

As far as I'm concerned at the moment he can play Alves at left back if he thinks it's the best thing to do, because he seems to have such a clear and confident view of what needs to be done and how to do it.

boronutter Posted on 01/08/2008 08:46
Southgates Demise

i think it will come back to haunt him ,not getting an experienced keeper in.southgate can say how great jones is in training and all that bull,but i have seen him in the first team and he does not inspire confindence in me let alone his defenders!.i think hes had enough chances to have impressed and failed to do so.i realise that hes not getting a new keeper in so i hope he gives turnbull a chance to see what he can do ,hopefully it will turn out ok and the goalkeaping situation wont be a problem,otherwise the gate will deserve all the stick he will get.

skiprat Posted on 01/08/2008 08:47
Southgates Demise

Southgate can think all he likes Buddy. We've got much more intelligent and better footballing brains in the crowd.

Especially when we go 1 down.

Broughton Posted on 01/08/2008 08:48
Southgates Demise

I am sure that Gareth and Pearsy are better qualified than most of us to judge if we are doing the right thing.
BELIEVE

jam69 Posted on 01/08/2008 08:48
Southgates Demise

wont help if the crowd get on the keepers back,be good if whoever is in goal v spurs gets a good reception

wilfym Posted on 01/08/2008 08:50
Southgates Demise

Your right it will cost him but apparantly all coaching staff are in agreement so it wont be just his head on the block if it all goes tits up.The thing is that everybody just assumed wed be in for a keeper once we knew Schwarzer was off but right from the start hes never been interested in signing one.I think its got nothing to do with finance like some others on here have stated, hes made a decision that just doesnt sit right with probs 99% of fans.........only time will tell wether its right or wrong.

Broughton Posted on 01/08/2008 08:52
Southgates Demise

There will always be the knobs who don't like to be proven wrong so they will go out of their way to upset them just to be able to say "I told you so".
Back the lads as they deserve a FAIR chance to prove themselves.
CONFIDENCE BREEDS SUCCESS

wilfym Posted on 01/08/2008 08:57
Southgates Demise

I hope whoever starts steps up to the task and i for one wont be booing or gasping at the slightest clanger but we know there,ll be a section that will be straight on the player and managers case if that happens.Thats another reason why the decisison not to get an established keeper is a strange one imo.

Buddy Posted on 01/08/2008 09:01
Southgates Demise

I don't think "to keep the vocal idiots quiet" is necessarily a good reason for spending a few million quid of somebody else's money.

Broughton Posted on 01/08/2008 09:02
Southgates Demise

The problem is that when Goalies make a clanger a goal is normally conceded.
If a defender makes a clanger the goalie can pull him out of the S***.
You name me a established goalie who doesn't have the odd howler.
Lets Back Gareth on this one.

Fletch Posted on 01/08/2008 09:08
Southgates Demise

Hear, hear Broughton...


And if anyone is getting ready to boo and barack our keeper at the first slight mistake then do us all a favour and watch the game from the effing boozer!

wilfym Posted on 01/08/2008 09:12
Southgates Demise

All keepers do have the odd howler your right but we,re faced with an apathetic support base with dwindling numbers who look for anything to have a moan/bitch or reason to not go to the game ....a signing like Robinson or Friedel wouldve come across as a positive replacement where to most people this decision is already viewed as a negative.

sasboro1 Posted on 01/08/2008 09:16
Southgates Demise

maybe we just dont have the funds to spend £3m+on a keeper and so have to settle with what we have until we have a bit more money. do you seriously think a club that has ambitions will by choice go into the season with the inexperience of jones and turnbull?

joseph99 Posted on 01/08/2008 09:17
Southgates Demise

I respect and like Southgate but would stop short of curling my tongue into ass - in other words not selling out the concensus view of normal Boro fans that we are short of cover in goal. Evidence suggests that Brad Jones lacks the necessary quality and politically motivated propagands-like statements don't change these facts. A person full of words and not of deeds is like a garden full of weeds.

A distastrous start for anyone playing between the sticks will cause Southgate to lose lots of credibility amongst many many fans. Remember also that a nervous goalkeeper makes the defenders around him unsettled, uneasy and equally error prone. I'd have Crossley back ahead of these two.

wilfym Posted on 01/08/2008 09:20
Southgates Demise

I genuinely dont think moneys the issue as we,ll prob purchase another player before the season starts anyway.Did you think Man City were ambitious last season??...i did.. and they played Casper Schmeical and Joe Hart.

Dynamo Posted on 01/08/2008 09:26
Southgates Demise

joseph99 Posted

A distastrous start for anyone playing between the sticks will cause Southgate to lose lots of credibility amongst many many fans.


But if Southgates choice between the sticks comes up trumps, will those that only enjoy knocking him and the club give him kudos? Somehow I think not.

wilfym Posted on 01/08/2008 09:28
Southgates Demise

No Dynamo they,ll say he got lucky probably!

joseph99 Posted on 01/08/2008 09:29
Southgates Demise

Dynamo: I think Boro fans like Southgate and are warming to him. The thread opener makes a valid point and please stop searching for a stick to beat up fans.

Broughton Posted on 01/08/2008 09:29
Southgates Demise

Who would be a manager eh? LOL [:)]

ccole Posted on 01/08/2008 09:35
Southgates Demise

I worry about the Keeper situation, but I worry more that it is going to be used as the massive stick by the Southgate haters.

Second match of the season, we go to Anfield, batter Liverpool for 89 mins, Liverpool get a last minute pen and win 1-0. “Southgate should have bought a keeper” they will ring the legends and say.

Big_Shot Posted on 01/08/2008 09:36
Southgates Demise

You'll find there'll be loads of fans who happily say that they were wrong and are glad they were. I honestly hope I'm wrong.

However I remember last summer when Southgate(and many fans on here) was desperate to sign Alan Smith. There were some of us on here who argued for weeks that he would be a terrible signing. I think we were right on that call. So don't do yourselves down if you don't agree with the manager. He isn't right all the time.

Mind you Skiprat was a Smith-ite [:)]

Dynamo Posted on 01/08/2008 09:41
Southgates Demise

joseph99 Posted

Dynamo: I think Boro fans like Southgate and are warming to him. The thread opener makes a valid point and please stop searching for a stick to beat up fans.



I don't recall anything in my post that said that the thread opener doesn't make a valid point. That doesn't make my point any less valid though. If some fans still have a dig at Southgate if he is proved right about the keeper, don't you think they'd deserve all the grief they get?


ccole Posted on 01/08/2008 09:42
Southgates Demise

Hand up, I would have signed Smith. Then again most on here would have been happier had we employeed the man that bought Smith!

Big_Shot Posted on 01/08/2008 09:47
Southgates Demise

Yeah but I bet your glad we didn't now. My point is we get people saying the manager knows a lot more than the man in the crowd, which is fine as more often than not he does, but come on he wanted to spend £6m on Alan Smith and there were lots of us who we saying that he would be a terrible signing. It goes to show that because he's the man in the hotseat doesn't mean he's right all the time.

I just hope I'm not bang on correct about this like I was about that last summer.

Keverson Posted on 01/08/2008 09:53
Southgates Demise

If anything if your keeper doesn't impress from the start - Southgate still has 4 weeks to find a short term replacement.

If I remember rightly you start off with 2 tough matches, then you have a succession of matches where you should (in theory) pick up a lot of points and be top half until November or something like that.

If your keeper lets you down in them matches, then the wait until January to sign a replacement is going to be a very long wait. And by then it may be too late because your easier home matches will have gone.

joseph99 Posted on 01/08/2008 09:54
Southgates Demise

Dynamo there are prattish fans at every club just not at MFC, so why the need to remind us. I think it is a risky strategy not to recruit a more established keeper but my balls are not on the line. If they were I would ensure we had better cover. I'll reiterate: evidence suggest we are weak here.

easycomeeasygo Posted on 01/08/2008 09:56
Southgates Demise

smith could have been a success at the boro. just cos he's had a bad time at newcastle doesnt mean he would have if he'd signed for us

Big_Shot Posted on 01/08/2008 09:57
Southgates Demise

He's dogS***. Got nothing to do with Newcastle.

easycomeeasygo Posted on 01/08/2008 09:58
Southgates Demise

i think he's a good player, he's just struggling at the moment. the lad can still play

Big_Shot Posted on 01/08/2008 10:00
Southgates Demise

Funny that after being pleased about nearly signing him last summer Southgate quickly dismissed rumours of us being in for him at the beginning of this summer. He's an awful striker, always has been.

easycomeeasygo Posted on 01/08/2008 10:01
Southgates Demise

he hasnt like, man u bought him yet he's always been awful?? anyway, i think he's a decent player

joseph99 Posted on 01/08/2008 10:02
Southgates Demise

You have to be very careful when buying players from teams like ManU. Firstly, they can have the Big Time Charlie attitude, secondly average players are made to look much better than they are as they're surrounded by genuine quality and finally Fergy only releases schit.

Big_Shot Posted on 01/08/2008 10:03
Southgates Demise

Yes I've always thought that, I even remember posting similar when Man Utd bought him in the first place. A headless chicken running around crashing into defenders does not make someone a good striker.

skiprat Posted on 01/08/2008 10:04
Southgates Demise

Big_Shot's a heffalump!

You even proved it back to me that I said I only wanted Smith in because we were short on numbers in the squad, not because he was a World Beater. I'd have had Robbie Savage in as well at that moment in time if we'd have been linked with him.

However that doesn't mean to say I'm not very glad he's stuck up the road from us and not loitering around Hurworth the blue lipped tw@t.

sasboro1 Posted on 01/08/2008 10:05
Southgates Demise

alan smiths career peaked in 2000-01 season.

that is the only season where he has reached double figures in the league and got 18 in all competitions. after that he has never reached double figures in all competitions.

very over rated.

Big_Shot Posted on 01/08/2008 10:05
Southgates Demise

Thats why I put the smiley, I know you weren't as bad as the majority.

grantus Posted on 01/08/2008 10:05
Southgates Demise

If Ross Turnbull and/or Bradley Jones have great seasons, will everyone hold their hands up, say that they were wrong and state that Gareth Southgate's brave decision regarding goalkeepers, was a masterstroke?

Jerry_Brown Posted on 01/08/2008 10:10
Southgates Demise

I don't particularly have any problem with Southgate/Pears opinions that Jones and Turnbull can do the job, my concern is that at times last season we had two injured keepers, what if that happens this season?

bobscat Posted on 01/08/2008 10:11
Southgates Demise

Saying you have no confidence in Bad Jones does not make you a Boo Boy or Knocker of the team , we've all seen the evidence He's gash, He looks half a sleep & I carnt see he giving confidence to his back four.Turnbull give him a chance , yes but Jones NO WAY.

Boromart Posted on 01/08/2008 10:12
Southgates Demise

"He's an awful striker, always has been. " -- his form at newcastle has proven nithing about his ability as a striker, they haven't played him there.

"alan smiths career peaked in 2000-01 season." -- largely because some 'clever' managers decided to play him as a midfielder, and his 3 years at OT were a waste as he wasn't ever going to be good enough to hold down a first team shirt, and he missed a year injured.

He is an OK player, better than what we had this time last year after Viduka left and Yak couldn't be bothered.

wilfym Posted on 01/08/2008 10:15
Southgates Demise

Skiprat...Robbie Savage????...What were you thinking???
One of the biggest tossers ever to make a living out of football...aside from the fact hes utter gash and is a T*** ..hes welsh ffs!

TrappaTony Posted on 01/08/2008 10:17
Southgates Demise

It's not just Southgate, Pears and the rest of the management team also agree according to what I heard on the radio the other day.

We can't put a great deal of store on Pears judgements as a coach yet - who knows whether he is a godd one or not?While we are on the subject,his job appointment appears similar to the criteria applied to that of Colin Cooper ie, a safe and popular one, based on their familiarity at the club, one of the nice old boys; not based on their abilities as coaches.

Southgate has it all to do this year IMHO in an effort to prove himself as a P.L. manager. After conceding injury time goals in Portugal, he used the worrying, and well worn phrase in his vocabulary, "we switched off".

In his first two seasons as a manager he cited this short coming in his team on many an occasion. It begs the question Gareth, why ? and what are you going to do to stop it happening?

I find it hard in these circumstances as to why so many on here have so much blind faith in his potential to progress the team as a whole. I am pleased by the change in our style of play at times and wish him well but last season there were far more negatives than positives, when, lest we forget, we escaped the dreaded drop by the skin of our teeth.

Big_Shot Posted on 01/08/2008 10:17
Southgates Demise

Mart, as was discussed at great length last summer, my opinion of him was formed before he even went to Newcastle.

Boromart Posted on 01/08/2008 10:20
Southgates Demise

no we didn't, we only spent about 3 days in the drop zone, and we had enough points in the bag to stay up with 4 games left. Don't exaggerate.

Big_Shot Posted on 01/08/2008 10:22
Southgates Demise

Whilst I agree with that with regards to us not really in that much danger of being relegated last season we were still needing another point just to make sure with 2 games to go just like the season before. Not quite the skin of our teeth, but not comfortably mid table also.

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 01/08/2008 10:23
Southgates Demise

It's not blind faith in Southgate that people can see, but the real signs of pregression.

He has overhauled our team and squad since Smac left (which needed doing) and has kept us in the PL in the process. We have youth and pace in the squad for the first time in many years and has done it all on a smaller budget than either of his predecessors have had to manage.

I think he has already proved himself as a PL manager, given the facts.

krissyyork Posted on 01/08/2008 10:33
Southgates Demise

Big Shot

Yes I've always thought that, I even remember posting similar when Man Utd bought him in the first place. A headless chicken running around crashing into defenders does not make someone a good striker.


Point taken but Kevin Davies has made a success of doing that. and he's not such a bad player these days

Big_Shot Posted on 01/08/2008 10:49
Southgates Demise

To be honest I'd say Kevin Davies has more about him as a striker than Smith has. At least he's a big strong 6 footer who's is good in the air. Saying that I still wouldn't want anywhere near my side, and certainly not at £6m and 60k a week.

TrappaTony Posted on 01/08/2008 10:57
Southgates Demise

no we didn't, we only spent about 3 days in the drop zone, and we had enough points in the bag to stay up with 4 games left. Don't exaggerate.


The form leading to the last two games against fellow struggerlers(Reading/Bolton/Sunlun) towards the end of the season was very poor indeed.

In my opinnion we got handed a get out of jail card handed to us by the P.L. fixture computer - the last two home games were a complete "gimme". Portsmouth in the Cup Final, nowt to play for.
Man City in complete and utter turmoil, nowt to play for.

Not witstanding the point made about Man City, the demolition of them in the last game was nevertheless impressive and hugely enjoyable.

sasboro1 Posted on 01/08/2008 10:58
Southgates Demise

smiths record it pretty poor:- played 358, as sub (75),goals 68, yellow 88, red 9.

joseph99 Posted on 01/08/2008 11:07
Southgates Demise

There’s no denying that Southgate is making progress but lets not forget he’s made a lot of bad, somewhat naïve, decisions since he started his career in management. The good news is that, unlike his predecessors McClaren and Robbo, he seems to be learning from his mistakes. Let’s hope this is a wise one and not Lamb/Gibbo driven.


“It's not just Southgate, Pears and the rest of the management team also agree according to what I heard on the radio the other day”.

So how many times have underlings to the management and board have come out and said that their club have a flawed strategy in terms of transfer policy?? FFS Pears is not going to say I disagree with Southgate – Jones is pap.

easycomeeasygo Posted on 01/08/2008 11:09
Southgates Demise

eh??

if pears felt they wern't good enough he'd say so

joseph99 Posted on 01/08/2008 11:10
Southgates Demise

Pears woud diagree with Southagte?? Then lose his job??? Pears needs money.

easycomeeasygo Posted on 01/08/2008 11:12
Southgates Demise

wtf, you really believe that by saying he felt the current keepers weren't good enough he'd get the sack?

give yer head a shake man

sasboro1 Posted on 01/08/2008 11:14
Southgates Demise

maybe southgate hasnt much money left to spend and asked pears if he thinks they wouldbe good enough for a stop gap place in the team this season. pears says yes so as southgate not got the experience he goes by what pears says

Buddy Posted on 01/08/2008 11:14
Southgates Demise

joseph, you are beyond belief. Do you honestly think that Southgate and Pears only talk to each other via the back page of the Gazette? Do you not think it's conceivable they might have private meetings and team meetings? Or do you think Pearsy will go to those and doff his cap and say "yes, boss", "not my place to say boss", "thanks for your time gaffer"?

joseph99 Posted on 01/08/2008 11:14
Southgates Demise

If Southagte and Cooper both argued that they thought the existing keepers were good enough - Pears would agree. It's called life.

joseph99 Posted on 01/08/2008 11:16
Southgates Demise

So how many times have underlings come out and said thet they disagree with their manager? If they do (normally it's players) and we know what happens next.

easycomeeasygo Posted on 01/08/2008 11:17
Southgates Demise

stop talking sh1t mate. he'd give his honest opinion and there wouldnt be any "arguing" they will have a discussion. this is professional football joseph. stop being daft

Critical_Bill Posted on 01/08/2008 11:18
Southgates Demise

"As far as I'm concerned at the moment he can play Alves at left back if he thinks it's the best thing to do, because he seems to have such a clear and confident view of what needs to be done and how to do it."

Buddy has become the middle-aged version of Briggsy.

sasboro1 Posted on 01/08/2008 11:20
Southgates Demise

"stop being daft"
cominng from someone who thinks aliadiere will get 15 goals this season [;)]

joseph99 Posted on 01/08/2008 11:22
Southgates Demise

I am just being an independent fan - and many independent fans think along the same lines that Jones is very very poor cover. Some people on here display enormous naivity or perhaps there are other ulterior motives.

An argument isn't necessarily a heated debate.

Honesty and football are mutually exclusive.

easycomeeasygo Posted on 01/08/2008 11:27
Southgates Demise

will you still be winky smiling come the end of the season when you are 50 quid out of pocket sas? [;)]

captain5 Posted on 01/08/2008 11:28
Southgates Demise

People aren't really arguing with your opinion of Jones, though, Joseph.

It's just the crazy way that you have a goalkeeping coach agreeing with a decision that could cost him his job, to save his job.

sasboro1 Posted on 01/08/2008 11:30
Southgates Demise

i will happily pay up if he gets 15, wonder what odd the bookies would give me on him getting 15 goals. 7/1? maybe i will put £10 down he will get it [;)]

joseph99 Posted on 01/08/2008 11:37
Southgates Demise

Therefore Captain, Southgate is doing a good management job on Pears as if it all goes 'Pears' shaped in front of goal Southagate has the perfect scapegoat. Pears is wrong to agree with the sentiment - whether its based on scyophancy, job security or ignorance.

My point is that in life people agree with superiority - which is hardly a shock horror surprise.

captain5 Posted on 01/08/2008 11:40
Southgates Demise

So, your assumption is that Pears is a sycophant an idiot or both.

Glad I don't work for you.

I'd hate to think you underestimated people in such a way.

easycomeeasygo Posted on 01/08/2008 11:43
Southgates Demise

southgate: "so steve, do you think our keepers are up to the task?"

pears; "i dunno boss, what do you think?"

southgate: "i think they are good enough steve"

pears: "oh, yeah, me too boss, me too"

ffs

joseph99 Posted on 01/08/2008 11:43
Southgates Demise

Welcome to life Captain.

sasboro1 Posted on 01/08/2008 11:44
Southgates Demise

due to southgates lack of experience and still learning he could be genuinely taking the advice of pears.

captain5 Posted on 01/08/2008 11:46
Southgates Demise

Of course he will be, sas.

Joseph obviously just has a very poor view of people generally.

easycomeeasygo Posted on 01/08/2008 11:47
Southgates Demise

regardless of experience, all managers will take advice from there coaching staff.

dont you think fergie takes advice from queiros?(sp)

joseph99 Posted on 01/08/2008 11:56
Southgates Demise

Pleasing to know that you have an ability to pass judgement on someone's persona from a msg board Captain. Just because the shoe doesn't fit doesn't make it a bad shoe.

easycomeeasygo Posted on 01/08/2008 11:58
Southgates Demise

yet you so flippantly judge pears as a yes man?

joseph99 Posted on 01/08/2008 12:03
Southgates Demise

Nothing wrong with being a yes man.

easycomeeasygo Posted on 01/08/2008 12:05
Southgates Demise

erm, yes there is, actually

sasboro1 Posted on 01/08/2008 12:06
Southgates Demise

managers are paid to take everyones advice on board but then the final decision lies with them. isnt that why southgate will be getting paid about £1m a year compared to the coaches on a lot less? you are paying him for the ability to make teh right decisions at this level

captain5 Posted on 01/08/2008 12:06
Southgates Demise

Exactly, Joseph. I've just made a similar assumption to the one that you've made about Stephen Pears.

joseph99 Posted on 01/08/2008 12:06
Southgates Demise

Pears has to feed his kids and pay his mortgage. It's called survival and life.

Capt: let me remind you that this is an anonymous msg board - it's not real life. For all I know I could be talking to Dave Allan.

captain5 Posted on 01/08/2008 12:09
Southgates Demise

And as I've said further up the thread, you're suggesting that he's agreeing with this even though it would cost him his job.

joseph99 Posted on 01/08/2008 12:10
Southgates Demise

Pears is in bad position then if this is the case. However, agreeing with Southgate on this matter (telling him what he wants to hear) would be the best policy for Pears - always best to be united on decisions - that way Pears keeps his job if things go wrong.

skiprat Posted on 01/08/2008 12:18
Southgates Demise

We all know that's not the case though.

And that you're a mentalist.

Boromart Posted on 01/08/2008 12:24
Southgates Demise

"The form leading to the last two games against fellow struggerlers(Reading/Bolton/Sunlun) towards the end of the season was very poor indeed."
Subjective but after the Cardiff game we had some good performances, we were unlucky to lose at Chelsea, we got a draw against Manure, the champs elect, maybe unlucky not to win it.

Good points away to Villa and Arse. Home win vs Derby. Excellant 2nd half at Spurs to get a point. Unlucky single goal defeats to Bolton and the Mackems were teh only blemishes.

"In my opinnion we got handed a get out of jail card handed to us by the P.L. fixture computer"
what nonsense, we play everyone twice, other teams will have played the big 4 after/before chumps league teams, or twice in a week. It evens out. We were safe by the last 2 games anyhow.

"smiths record it pretty poor:- played 358, as sub (75),goals 68, yellow 88, red 9. "
Difficult to rate him just on stats as he has played about half his career as a midfielder. As a striker he gets 1 in 3.5 games, as a midfielder about 1 in 10.

Ex_Pat_the_Postman Posted on 01/08/2008 12:41
Southgates Demise

I think Southgate's decision is a gamble, but it's an understandable gamble. Robinson and Carson have come off seasons where their performances for club and country have a) led to them being released and b) seen them lose their England spot.

Sorenson has been a free agent for a while now, and there hasn't been a long line of quality teams vying for his signature.

Had Southgate bought any one of the three available, he would have effectively lost Jones and Turnbull. It's a risky move, but no less risky than buying one of these players and gambling that he'll rediscover past form.

As I've written on another forum...this will either prove to be the shrewdest decision ever by a Boro manager, or one of the biggest mistakes ever by a Boro manager. I'm going to stick my neck out and say the former :)

sasboro1 Posted on 01/08/2008 13:14
Southgates Demise

"Difficult to rate him just on stats as he has played about half his career as a midfielder. As a striker he gets 1 in 3.5 games, as a midfielder about 1 in 10."

maybe he has played a part of his career in midfield cos he is shyte up front? so he got moved to midfield. did he score any goals for newcatle from midfield last season?

smoggieinmanc Posted on 01/08/2008 13:27
Southgates Demise

I dont think, Turnbull would get a bad reception if he plays against Spurs, but I worry Jones will if picked.

I wont boo, however, I think he is absolutely shyte. As mentioned earlier it's a huge risk by Gareth, as his job could very well hinge on this decision. If it alls goes wrong, I can see him being hounded out!

I personally think that Robinson & Carson would have wanted more money in wages etc. than we can afford to pay. In the overall scheme of things in the league, I dont think we have many big earners any more!

maca88 Posted on 01/08/2008 14:35
Southgates Demise

We all need to think about this logically.

A large proportion of Middlesbrough fans feel that both our keepers are not up to the challenge of the premiership, ok everyone is entitled to thier opinion, but surely that opinion should be based on reasoning.

Most fans will have based their judgement on jones from the sunderland game and on turnbull from his apparently poor showing on loan.

But who has actually studied thier game and followed their progress?? possibly one or two but the rest are out of order.

Why is it that this large proportion feel that their football knowlegde of players and how they will cope is better than the combined knowledge of southgate, cooper, pears and others who actually work with these players every day practically as a way of making themselves a living?

These fans are being completely irrational. To have doubts is normal but to slate southgate for making a call on the matter is silly when he has yet to be proven right or wrong.

Remember southgate has more knowledge than you so its his call.

captain5 Posted on 01/08/2008 14:39
Southgates Demise

If we had a back up I wouldn't be too concerned, but we haven't.

Unless these two players ahve imroved markedly over the summer then Southgate is allowing this area of the pitch to be a weakness.

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 01/08/2008 14:44
Southgates Demise

Macca88, nice to see some objective opinion on this subject for once.

Skippy cost us plenty of points in the first half of last season, so in actually fact can it be any worse?

The_same_as_before Posted on 01/08/2008 14:44
Southgates Demise

this is going to be a good season. 58 points plus.

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 01/08/2008 14:53
Southgates Demise

I think most people have seen more of Jones than the Sunderland game. Remember he played against Steau and C****ed that up. I must have seen him play 7 or 8 times at least. He was superb in the AZ game and helped keep a clean sheet, and as a shot stopper he's quite usefull. But he has no command of the area and cannot hang onto a ball. He also seems unable to deflect the ball behind preferring to push it into the path of an onrushing striker. Spurs away in the league cup also comes to mind as a poor game.
Turnbull I know less of. I was fairly unimpressed against reading and he was at fault for a goal. but yes he can't be judged on that game alone.
but its simply mental not to get a safe pair of hands who could step in if needed. A Mark Crossley or Gary Walsh type player. someone with a few games under their belt. I'm hoping this will happen before the start of the season.

joseph99 Posted on 01/08/2008 15:30
Southgates Demise

Mnay voices on here were critical and in a totally non-objective manner critical of Skippy - but now he's gone I suppose it's OK. 20:20 hindsight and all that.

Some people are so uncomfortable reading criticism of the club in the present tense.

I remember this board was split over McClaren - ~50% of usernames believed he was bad for the club and ~50% usernames wanted his babies. Now he has gone and truth is out there is very little in terms of defence. Fickle. In the ground, there was a massive undercurrent of dissatisfaction.

Buddy Posted on 01/08/2008 15:37
Southgates Demise

What I would really like to know is (and if I'd thought of it before Monday I'd have phoned the thing myself) - has he sat each of them down and said "you and I both know that whatever happens you may well get a shocking reception at home games. Don't let it affect you as far as possible, I'll judge you on what you do and not what the crowd shouts".

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 01/08/2008 15:44
Southgates Demise

Buddy, very sad if they do get a poor reception, but given some of the sour negative nomarks that seem to populate the Riverside these days we all know its going to happen.

Big test of character for them both.

joseph99 Posted on 01/08/2008 15:46
Southgates Demise

Watch out for Jonny's stick.

captain5 Posted on 01/08/2008 15:55
Southgates Demise

People say that we had a very poor last season with Skippy but from about a third of the season onwards we didn't do too badly.

First eleven games we averaged about 2.2 goals a game and then when Pogatetz returned we averaged about 1.1 goals per game conceded.

A lot of the time the arguments on here are not the actual criticism of the club, but the way in which the accuser puts the point across.

This thread is an example. People are generally in agreement that the decision not to replace Skippy adequately is a bad one.

However, Joseph comes up with a conspiracy that Pears is a yes man as he would surely know that the two we've got aren't good enough and he daren't tell Gareth otherwise as he doesn't want to disagree for fear of losing his job. Even though this would probably cost him his job if it goes wrong.

Joseph then looks at those who disagree with him and says that people are defensive of the club. We're not. We just think they've made the wrong decision. We don't need to look too much more into it, just to appear clever, by second guessing the rationale behind the decisions without any knowledge.

Nero Posted on 01/08/2008 15:56
Southgates Demise

99.

easycomeeasygo Posted on 01/08/2008 15:58
Southgates Demise

good post captain

joseph99 Posted on 01/08/2008 16:05
Southgates Demise

There's no conspiracy at all - it's a theory to explain what could be going on at the club to explain the grey bit between the back and white and using the politics of life - it's not too difficult. I also do not like people coming on here and taking massive swipes at large sections of our fan base, afterall this is meant to be an "independent" site - a place where all fans' views can be heard - not just those that want to perform felatio on Southgate and Gibson.

easycomeeasygo Posted on 01/08/2008 16:07
Southgates Demise

so when you post utter tripe don't be suprised when you get shot to sh1t

joseph99 Posted on 01/08/2008 16:11
Southgates Demise

easycomeeasygo: too much of a riposte for me that one.

wilfym Posted on 01/08/2008 16:12
Southgates Demise

Dunno about felatio....who does he play for?
But a large section of our support just constantly want to deride the football club...just look at SMAC ..most successful manager ever.....hammered by fans for uninspiring football yet we had european comebacks,regularly beating top four sides and winning a trophy...pretty unimpressive eh?

easycomeeasygo Posted on 01/08/2008 16:13
Southgates Demise

okay??

Senor_Chester Posted on 01/08/2008 16:14
Southgates Demise

The worrying thing for me is from Gareths radio show, from what I heard, is that he talked about Turnbull and Jones having a chance to come in and step upto the job, I never heard him say that they were upto it at all in the first place (I may be wrong as I didn't hear it all).

From what I've seen I'm not happy having either of them in goal for us.

Senor_Chester Posted on 01/08/2008 16:16
Southgates Demise

wilfym alyhough those are the facts it's not as black and white as that. For a lot of the time it was pretty unimpressive yes.

joseph99 Posted on 01/08/2008 16:17
Southgates Demise

Senor: the site protocol is that you are not allowed into the grey bits.

wilfym Posted on 01/08/2008 16:30
Southgates Demise

Chester...i would say inconsistent rather than unimpressive.
Just watched prem years this morning...beat Manu 4-1,Chelsea 3-0 and Arsenal 2-1 just to name a few and i agree there was some poor performances but and its a big but to me...european football,regularly competing in latter stages of cup comps....lets be honest the public have not backed the club and chairman........if Sunderland had been where weve been in the last 10yrs theyd be sold out every week and we(you included)would be green with envy at their relative success.

YouAreMyBoro Posted on 01/08/2008 16:31
Southgates Demise


"but its simply mental not to get a safe pair of hands who could step in if needed. A Mark Crossley or Gary Walsh type player."


Sheriff, I don't remember Gary Walsh being a safe pair of hands! Ironically, the description of Jones fits the bill for Walsh perfectly:

"...and as a shot stopper he's quite usefull. But he has no command of the area and cannot hang onto a ball."



sasboro1 Posted on 01/08/2008 16:36
Southgates Demise

its not difficult to understand the keeper situation. southgate has a limited tranfer fund this summer. 7m has already gone. probably got say £5m left to spend now that cattermole has gone. we need a central midfielder to play alongside digard-someone with proven expereience in teh premier league. we cant sing a keeper and a midfielder. southgate asks pears his opinion on jones and turnbull and if one of them would be a good stop gap until we get more funds in january or next summer to buy an expereince keeper. pears says yes. so southgate says ok thats fine, i will sign a midfielder instead. it is jsut setting a priority on what we want to sign with the money available to spend.

we saw a similar situation with the strikers last season.

Senor_Chester Posted on 01/08/2008 16:39
Southgates Demise

The striker situation turned into a disaster last year - starting Hutchinson and Dong Gook as Premier League strikers! Hopefully it won't be the same with the keepers.......

wilfym Posted on 01/08/2008 16:39
Southgates Demise

Sas why do you keep bringing up money or lack of it .The manager obviously decided he didnt need to buy a keeper....lack of funds has had nothing to do with it...

whoyadoin2 Posted on 01/08/2008 16:41
Southgates Demise

Why go out and spend 4m on a S*** keeper?

It really doesn't make sense. Why people on here think our keepers are not as good as other clubs rejects.


Senor_Chester Posted on 01/08/2008 16:42
Southgates Demise

"if Sunderland had been where weve been in the last 10yrs theyd be sold out every week and we(you included)would be green with envy at their relative success."

When we started off we wer getting sellouts but fans are now bored of the monotiny, it will happen to Sunderland as well if they carry on to a certain extent. Only difference is they've got more mugs in their catchment area to keep coming throuh the gates.

wilfym Posted on 01/08/2008 16:49
Southgates Demise

Bored of the montony of qualifying for Europe,playing in semi,s and finals of cup comps....Dont get me wrong but id rather have that montony than back to playing Halifax on a P***ing down
Friday night stood in a mudbath!
Really thats why were a fcking laughing stock as far as support goes these days...i,ll just carry on being a mug then i suppose.

sasboro1 Posted on 01/08/2008 16:53
Southgates Demise

"Sas why do you keep bringing up money or lack of it .The manager obviously decided he didnt need to buy a keeper....lack of funds has had nothing to do with it..."

because the club has been cost cutting and already spent £13m on a player last january. so some of that money might have been an advance from this summers transfer funds.Too many fans seem to think there is an endless pot of money and i truly beleive that if there was enough money available for a keeper he would go out and buy one now. if he rates jones and turnbull so much then why are they in their last year of their contract and then free to talk to clubs in january.

Southgate is not going to say publicly that he has virtually spent up. club will spin it by saying they are giving the local lads a chance.

of course i am speculating but so is everyone on here but it is madness for a manager to have 2 inexpereinced keepers for a season in the premier league. i dont beleive that deep down southgate really is giving them the chance by choice.
its jsut like the striker situation over again


Stabilo_Boss Posted on 01/08/2008 16:58
Southgates Demise

Maca88 is the voice of reason on this thread. What exactly is people's scepticism of Turnball based on? I'd wager that most people criticising him have seen him play no more than 3 or 4 times.

There is a certain amount of risk attached but then that shows Southgate is prepared to take the brave decisions that many thought he'd shy away from.

As for this Pears 'yes-man' nonsense. What's more likely to result in the sack, expressing an honest opinion on a player's capability or placating your boss against your better judgement and then having it appear like you can't spot a player's deficiencies?

captain5 Posted on 01/08/2008 17:02
Southgates Demise

Joseph, you're not even looking into the grey bits.

You're just making things up about one of the staff being a yes man.


Senor_Chester Posted on 01/08/2008 17:05
Southgates Demise

"Bored of the montony of qualifying for Europe,playing in semi,s and finals of cup comps....Dont get me wrong but id rather have that montony than back to playing Halifax on a P***ing down"

I'm not arguing or saying it makes sense but looking at the facts, crowds having being going down each year so thats whats happening.

wilfym Posted on 01/08/2008 17:06
Southgates Demise

Rightly or wrongly from the decision of Schwarzer to leave the club,the manager has not once indicated a desire to buy a keeper.....a bad decision imo.
If he had im certain we would have bought a keeper but obviously he genuinely feels we have no need.It has absolutely nothing to do with financial constraints....but you could be right ,maybe thats why we havent bought Kaka also.

captain5 Posted on 01/08/2008 17:08
Southgates Demise

Senor_Chester - imagine what would happen if we did go down.


Senor_Chester Posted on 01/08/2008 17:11
Southgates Demise

Do I need to imagine? Look what happened last time when we kept getting the same crowds a division down.

sasboro1 Posted on 01/08/2008 17:19
Southgates Demise

"If he had im certain we would have bought a keeper but obviously he genuinely feels we have no need.It has absolutely nothing to do with financial constraints....but you could be right ,maybe thats why we havent bought Kaka also."

ah, now you are getting silly. but hey money grows on trees with boro. or maybe we jsut dont have much money to spend as we all seem to think

like i said if southgate rated them both so much then why have they got less than a year on their contracts. club policy seems to be to keep the young players they rate on long term contracts. most players they look to keep will have began contract negotiations before they enter the last 12 months. is it a case of looking at both and then just offering 1 a contract then get another keeper in next summer or in january?

if turnbull or jones are that good then why havent other premier league clubs come in for them in the last 12 months? either as permanent or on loan? surely they must be worth £3m+ and the club wouldnt want to risk losing them next summer on a free?

on one hand they seem to be rated by southgate but then the other he doesnt value them that much. doesnt make sense.

joseph99 Posted on 01/08/2008 17:43
Southgates Demise

Captain if you're going to sit around and pontificate on other peoples'viewpoints then do so accurately. Just because you think 'agreement culture' doesn't exist at all in your world doesn't make it true.

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 01/08/2008 17:47
Southgates Demise

I think its a brave decision by Southgate and lets be honest, how many of us though Wheater would be such a big player for us this tiem last year.

And before anyone claims that Wheater was a different case, can we just remember that there was no-one clamouring for him to be given a chance this time last year.

He had been out on loan to differing reviews, with Wolves sending him back early labelling him not good enough.

So why not give them a chance?

We should be proud of our home grown talent and give our support to both keepers, for now at least.

Senor_Chester Posted on 01/08/2008 18:10
Southgates Demise

Because if Wheater turned out to be a flop we had other options in his position.

joseph99 Posted on 01/08/2008 18:19
Southgates Demise

Wheater was the only kid from that era I was impressed by early-doors and this was voiced on here ..... after playing well for England and his first few appearances for Boro. If Cattermole is worth £3.5M I wonder what the Redcar fella is worth?

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 01/08/2008 18:36
Southgates Demise

The point I'm making is no-one expected him to reach the standard he has, so who's to say Jones or Turnbull wont surpise us?

Either way they deserve to be given the chance.

Senor_Chester Posted on 01/08/2008 18:40
Southgates Demise

"Either way they deserve to be given the chance."

What? At the demise of the team?

joseph99 Posted on 01/08/2008 18:43
Southgates Demise

Jonny - I did but not at the speed at which he has progressed. Not saying he is the finished article - his distribution needs to improve - but he has been given a chance and has taken it. However, in some postions you need to have maturity beyond your years (that he has), in other positions it's less critical (full back for eg) but playing in the spine of the time you need that maturity, I don't see it in Jones at all, Turnbull just might but its a big gamble. Jones has had a few chances - but failed to impress.

br14 Posted on 02/08/2008 03:10
Southgates Demise

"We were safe by the last 2 games anyhow"

In response to a much earlier post. I hope Southgate isn't so complacent. We got 42 points last season. Wasn't so long ago teams were being relegated with that points tally. Palace were relegated with 49 points in 1993.

42 is the lowest points tally for Boro over the past 10 years. We only stayed up because a number of other clubs were complete dross.

Check the stats over the past few years. McClarens 55 points will probably go down in history as the highest ever points tally for Boro in the Premier League.

manhead Posted on 02/08/2008 09:34
Southgates Demise

............the thing that really troubles me is that if these jones and turnball are so good, surely they would have been pushing schwarzer hard last season for the number one spot - whoch they obviously didnt. you'd have thought that the managment, knowing that it was highly likely schwarz would wove on at the end of last season,would have tried the lads out (albeit we were in a relegation battle for a while). To me, that says that the managment considered schwarz the best keeper at the club, therefore we are weaker this season??

flaps Posted on 02/08/2008 09:43
Southgates Demise

"Palace were relegated with 49 points in 1993."

There were four more games a season then.