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ridsdale Posted on 09/01/2008 20:33
This boards swing to the political right.

Seems that the liberal left are wringing their hands together as they consider that this messageboard has taken a big swing to the right on political issues. Little Jimmy and co. are missing, presumed having a lie down to recover.

Not sure if it is even true, maybe this is just a swingometer of how people really feel. After ten years of hard Labour, perhaps the country is ready for change.

And let's be honest, the biggest critics of Labour are the very same people who are complaining about others deserting the Labour government.

Perhaps the liberal left are one of the biggest reasons why Labour is held in such contempt.

The bed they lay on, is the bed the liberal leftys have made themselves.

Metaxa Posted on 09/01/2008 20:34
This boards swing to the political right.

Cant Disagree

borobadge Posted on 09/01/2008 20:37
This boards swing to the political right.?.

all talk....and no action.

Rodney_Trotter Posted on 09/01/2008 20:39
This boards swing to the political right.

Be careful. Don`t forget that the commanders of the board are fully paid up members of the PC brigade and woe be tide any who has any right wing leanings as this makes you a nazi racist remember!

HolgateEnd Posted on 09/01/2008 20:39
This boards swing to the political right.

Always confuses me this... what is the political right and what is a lefty?

No sarcastic replies please [;)]

Pogatetz_Ate_My_Hamster Posted on 09/01/2008 20:40
This boards swing to the political right.

Yeh this board is full of pc morons who think terror suspects deserve full asylum and benefits. I couldn't belive the rubbish they came out with.

People like them who vote labour are killing this country

Bren_MFC Posted on 09/01/2008 20:41
This boards swing to the political right.

I've noticed that like, their on you like a pack of wolves.

Piggy Posted on 09/01/2008 20:42
This boards swing to the political right.

I was listening to one of his CD's in the car yesterday. Some live show from the mid 80's. It didnt seem very funny at all which surprised me as I remember him being very popular in those days.

Edit - As you may have guessed, this was meant for the Robin Williams thread. Sorry for the confusion.

Rodney_Trotter Posted on 09/01/2008 20:43
This boards swing to the political right.

*ducks and awaits the barrage of abuse supposedly from the peace loving, live and let live brigade*

ridsdale Posted on 09/01/2008 20:48
This boards swing to the political right.

Anyway, where are all the pinko's?

Is it the time of the year for cheap holidays in Cuba or something?

borobuddah Posted on 09/01/2008 20:48
This boards swing to the political right.

It's just a new constituency, time will always show that left is right.

For raising consciousness, this place will be a great feeding ground.

ridsdale Posted on 09/01/2008 20:49
This boards swing to the political right.

Buddah waves his little red book.

moxzin Posted on 09/01/2008 20:53
This boards swing to the political right.

There are still people evidently who think Labour are lefties killing the country, whilst most of the people I talk to day-to-day insist that Labour are righties killing the country.

I'd defy anyone to take an ideological position these days and stick to it, because the sands shift so much - you never know who the Politburo will have you align with next. I generally don't know how our resident apparatchiks do it. Best to pick your position depending on the issue - the left will call you right, the right will call you left. I guess thats what everyone has to look forward to.

LemmyKilmister Posted on 09/01/2008 21:04
This boards swing to the political right.

Keir Hardie will be spinning in his grave....

ridsdale Posted on 09/01/2008 21:06
This boards swing to the political right.

LittleJimmy will be spinning in his jacuzzi.

blindschool Posted on 09/01/2008 21:23
This boards swing to the political right.

I am a Labour voter by inclination but for the first time ever the prospect of a Tory government doesn't worry me. Nothing to do with the quality of the Tories, more betrayal by Labour.

Lefty Posted on 09/01/2008 21:59
This boards swing to the political right.

[:D]Piggy

Buddy Posted on 09/01/2008 22:00
This boards swing to the political right.

[:D] Can someone save this thread please?

A dozen posts of "they're on you like a flash", "can't get a word in edgeways", "they'll be here any minute, you watch", "we're talking to ourselves here aren't we"........

ridsdale Posted on 09/01/2008 22:05
This boards swing to the political right.

"A dozen posts of "they're on you like a flash", "can't get a word in edgeways", "they'll be here any minute, you watch", "we're talking to ourselves here aren't we"........"

Well that ia the case normally. The lower middle class lefties usually operate as a pack. They have been noticed by their absense in recent times. They are either on holiday or suffering from depression and stress at the thought of their property values declining by the hour.


HelmutSchmutz Posted on 09/01/2008 22:30
This boards swing to the political right.

I've never understood how people can belong to the left or belong to the right, surely things are more complicated then that?

pierrequiroule Posted on 09/01/2008 23:04
This boards swing to the political right.

Not in the world that ridsdale inhabits.

ridsdale Posted on 09/01/2008 23:08
This boards swing to the political right.

"Not in the world that ridsdale inhabits."

The real world do you mean?

sasboro1 Posted on 09/01/2008 23:15
This boards swing to the political right.

Not the real world just message board life. Or is this the real world?

ridsdale Posted on 09/01/2008 23:21
This boards swing to the political right.

Well if anyone knows, it is you sas.

TeessideCleveland Posted on 09/01/2008 23:26
This boards swing to the political right.

While the present lot are not currently doing a great job the others fill me with dread
And that IS a reason to consider voting Labour imo
That doesn't mean I will - undecided
It is true what you say that some of this lot's biggest critics are the left , although obviously partisan Tories will join in

I'm assuming this thread was started for a discussion and not an argument when answering that

ridsdale Posted on 09/01/2008 23:32
This boards swing to the political right.

It does seem that those who critisise this government from a faux leftist position may just have reaped what they have sowed.

Posted on 09/01/2008 23:59
This boards swing to the political right.

Rids, wasn't it you who led the mob in a gleeful post-Putsch window smashing tabloid pogrom against the hated old guard of loony left, Christmas-banning soft-handed, elbow patched intellectuals? Now you bemoan their absence.

I don't think there has been a swing to the right. There was always an element of half digested Sun/Daily Mail bile being regurgitated, would-be Bernard Mannings exercising free speech and predictable would-be Jeremy Clarksons being creatively outraged over things they barely understood but in the past they would be challenged by "the PC brigade."

There was a ridiculous myth that the old board was policed by killjoy communists, teachers and a cell of hardcore Guardianistas but it wasn't really was it. The clique was an in joke rather than a secret police.

In fact it was just a core of politically disparate long term posters who felt a they had a stake in the board and maybe felt a quaint naive responsibility for it. They had a vaguely liberal perspective on social matters and were always ready to challenge racism, homophobia and ignorance. That was a decent and admirable but essentially non-political core of values that all but the jack boot tendency would probably subscribe to.

Fascist trolls would be chased away quickly, lies would be dispelled through rational debate, it could be enlightening, educational, provocative and progressive. It was a self policing broad and inclusive community that I was proud to be part of.

But that has been gone now, mainly because of all the technical changes rather than any great political shift. Some people got out of the habit in all the moves, some got tired of the infantile posts about masturbation, some felt they no felt part of it, some probably found little to engage them or didn't feel part of the new dumbed down version.

You have lost your own zest and are no longer a permanent presence yourself. I suppose it is hard to play the role of anti-hero dissident when there is no establishment to badger.






red_rebel Posted on 10/01/2008 00:07
This boards swing to the political right.

That above post was by me by the way.

red_rebel

NorfolknGood Posted on 10/01/2008 00:35
This boards swing to the political right.

So how do you behead yourself like that

Scrote Posted on 10/01/2008 00:48
This boards swing to the political right.

red_rebel has got it more or less spot on although i'd also argue that a lot of the seemingly right-wing posts are intended to get a reaction rather than the political belief of any particular poster

it is much harder to to get a ton posting "lets all be nice to each other" as opposed to "immigrant muslim lesbians are eating our babies"

in the continuing crusade to find the board's most contentious poster a swing to the right in tone is inevitable

SplendidStuff Posted on 10/01/2008 00:51
This boards swing to the political right.

"immigrant muslim lesbians are eating our babies"


[:D]

Borocelt Posted on 10/01/2008 01:30
This boards swing to the political right.

Unfortunately, it's much easier to have an ill informed rant nicked from the mail, times or other rags than it is to analyze a particular issue and think about it objectively yourself.

I reckon there are plenty of lefties on this board. Like myself though, I reckon we're mainly sick of argueing with stupid people.

I'm obviously not saying right wingers are stupid of course, that would be a rediculous statement. I think it's possibly just coincidence that a lot of thick people on this board happen to be right wing.

onthemap Posted on 10/01/2008 01:35
This boards swing to the political right.

Something about normal folk don't give a S***e, work it out Roth wanabees.

Gillandi Posted on 10/01/2008 01:49
This boards swing to the political right.

Norfolk - You can't hang around in the composing room on this board or it logs you out and renders you anonymous.


Regarding political swings to the right for the board i'd say if any exists it just reflects the change in British culture generally in the last 5 years fuelled in my opinion by your post-pc comics like Ricky Gervais' and Sacha Baron Cohen. Unfortuneately the style doesn't translate very well to a written format but we must trust in god that a weight of intellect does exist behind the increase in gay, muslim and disabled comments.






br14 Posted on 10/01/2008 05:25
This boards swing to the political right.

"liberal left" - is there such a thing in todays Britain? Not much liberal thinking among Labour at any rate.

Doesn't seem to be much left left in Labour either.

borobill1 Posted on 10/01/2008 05:52
This boards swing to the political right.

Borobill is now banned.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 10/01/2008 06:16
This boards swing to the political right.

'this is becoming a serious party'

hahahaha!!!!!

You're a party of skinhead wasters. Some are a bit older and have let it grow to their ears, but they still can't hide the scar where the had the penis removed from their forehead.

When you stop being a joke party you'll see what kind of reception you get when you're out canvassing, heavies ot not.

borobill1 Posted on 10/01/2008 06:36
This boards swing to the political right.

Its obviously that you are Gay – and that you where most properly abuse by skinheads at some point – very narrow minded to class all skinheads now & in the past to have been a bunch of racists sociopath’s.

My money is on you fleeing the country you were born in, because you couldn’t cut it, been running from pillow to post all your life never standing up for what’s right, a little yes boy with no convictions, willing to just stand with the majority in case he might offended anyone, spineless I bet mummy & daddy are really proud of what you’ve achieved to date. F*** ALL!!!

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 10/01/2008 06:41
This boards swing to the political right.

The political right summed up. That's why you can't be taken seriously. Like I say, if ever you are, and the gloves are off, we'll see history repeating itself and once again, you'll be run out of town, heavies or not.

SplendidStuff Posted on 10/01/2008 06:46
This boards swing to the political right.

borobill, take your hatred elsewhere.

neilg Posted on 10/01/2008 07:00
This boards swing to the political right.

the bnp use sites like this to stir up racism / homophobia / islamaphobia / etc. its a strategy.

they try to recruit through the british legion based on the belief that all servicemen are likely to lean politically to the right.


the best way to get this offal off the site is to inform the administrator for the deflamatory descriminatory language and get the person concerned banned.

oh yes. i am an ex - serviceman.

zaphod Posted on 10/01/2008 07:06
This boards swing to the political right.

Opinion polls show the BNP getting less than 1% of votes (less than UKIP).

I don't think the Board has become more right-wing. What has happened is that the general level of political discussion has seriously declined. It's mostly "yaa boo sucks" these days and I, for one, am not interested in posting on that type of thread.

borobill1 Posted on 10/01/2008 07:07
This boards swing to the political right.

I would never leave the town or country I was born in (only for work reasons) which I bet is unlike you, I am proud of my heritage that I was born into, a country that my forefathers fought and die for, freedom of speech & democracy.
I bet question time is recorded each week for you, and sent to which ever little sun trap hole you’ve escape to, one sad individual, if your that concern about our great nation why don’t you come back, but wherever you are, there is no doubt you will be biggest gobS***e in the crowd, would spot you a mile off, done & seen more in a day the you have in a life time, pure ignorance.
Off back to work now –leading the 50 or so troops working under me – will be back home to blighty next week, GODS COUNTRY!! Catch you later traitor

Land of hope and glory
Mother of the free
How shall we extol thee
Who are born of thee

Wider still and wider
Shall thy bounds be set
God who made thee mighty
Make thee mightier yet
God who made thee mighty
Make thee mightier yet


Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 10/01/2008 07:26
This boards swing to the political right.

You're responsible for 50 troops!


Boroborn Posted on 10/01/2008 07:28
This boards swing to the political right.

Never understood this left or right thing. How can you say what your opinion of something is without listening to the issue first?

I think the old boundaries of capitalism vs communism have collapsed and what we are left with is a new political landscape which the torys, labour and the lib dems are struggling map out.



speckyget Posted on 10/01/2008 07:31
This boards swing to the political right.

Nothing much to add here.

Just glad I managed to get my head off the pillow to post.

Smognessabounds Posted on 10/01/2008 08:26
This boards swing to the political right.

Surely after ten years of Labour, wouldn't we be expecting a massive swing to the left?

zoec Posted on 10/01/2008 08:47
This boards swing to the political right.

[:D] specky

Buddy Posted on 10/01/2008 08:49
This boards swing to the political right.

Congratulations rebel, your 00:07 post takes the prize for "most unnecessary post" of this and all other years. [:)]

bororeddaz Posted on 10/01/2008 08:49
This boards swing to the political right.

'some got tired of the infantile posts about masturbation'

How can anyone get tired of posts about masturbation?

Decent_Left Posted on 10/01/2008 09:09
This boards swing to the political right.

Oh look, the Daily Maill automatons are coming out to play.

It was quite funny to watch the reactionary right getalong gang trying to outdo each other crying out for freedom from the increasing unreal oppression they claim they are under from unseen hand of the PC clique.

But then bill1 comes along and gets the day off to a great start with "The BNP is getting Stronger" and prediciting some sort of "civil war".

Come on bill1 keep up. Finally the Griffen lead agenda of respectability the BNP have been attempting blew up in his face or should I say nearly got him glassed in his face 4 weeks ago.

As for the rest of you lot on the life support of the intrevenous drip of Express & Mail bile thinking New Labour = PC Left, hahahahahahahah, very good.

Carry on.




Link: The great unmasking

Capybara Posted on 10/01/2008 09:17
This boards swing to the political right.

'That above post was by me by the way.'

No!

The_263 Posted on 10/01/2008 09:50
This boards swing to the political right.

I think the left clique were giving the FMTTM a bad repuatation and completely mis-representing the general viewpoint of the average Boro fan. It was also obvious that many of them knew (know) little about football matters and seldom had opinions on football to match their political beliefs. Could never figure out why they were so subservient to the clubs' propaganda. I suppose now the board is best summed up by the Tesco's ad at the top of the page. 'Every Little Helps'

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 10/01/2008 09:56
This boards swing to the political right.

It's strange you should say that, I was thinking the other way round this morning. I generally find that it's the right who are more subservient, including the football, and they generally have a black and white, with us or against us attitude. Criticism of players or manager is certainly not condoned by them on here.

Have a little look at the BNP bloke's responses to the rumoured Downing exit. I also find that the right are so far up their own backsides when it comes to football opinion, read Lord David or whatever he's now called.

borobuddah Posted on 10/01/2008 10:12
This boards swing to the political right.

Threads like this always provide a platform for the far right to peddle some pseudo populist bile and hatred, coincidence, or by design?

KICK IT OUT.

Metaxa Posted on 10/01/2008 10:20
This boards swing to the political right.

Kick out the lefty tree hugging liberals.

BarnesBoroFC Posted on 10/01/2008 10:21
This boards swing to the political right.

I don't know why anyone talks about politics in Middlesbrough.
It's a Labour stronghold. The majority zealously protective of their working man ideology and roots. The town is full of partizans who don't actually care for the politics but equate Labour with merely the name and what it used to stand for.
I'll have to move away if I want my vote to count (in a democratic sense), unless of course I like voting Labour ;)

Cynical? Yes.

Lefty Posted on 10/01/2008 11:11
This boards swing to the political right.


Just for you, Borobill.

Migrants add £37bn to UK's wealth


By Philip Thornton, Economics Correspondent
Published: 27 October 2006
Migrant workers have added £36.7bn - or 3 per cent - to the UK's wealth since Labour came to power in 1997, independent research published yesterday shows - and almost a third of that was generated since the accession of 10 nations to the EU in May 2004.

However, the report, from the National Institute of Economic and Social Research, said the benefits had not been shared equally, and had probably contributed to a rise in unemployment among unskilled young people.

The institute said that 5 per cent of the current working population has come to the UK since 1997 - a third of those since 2004 - and that the new migrants made up 4.5 per cent of the national wage bill.

It said the Exchequer was benefiting, as many of the new workers had been educated abroad and contributed to tax revenues rather than receiving benefits. The report said this effect was strengthened if the migrants did not stay into old age.

However, it said the influx of workers had probably pushed up unemployment by 0.3 percentage points - or roughly a third of the overall increase over that period.

It said more than six out of 10 migrants from "New Europe" were in basic-level jobs.

Martin Weale, the institute's director, said: "Migration is not something that leaves everyone better off... It is matter of judgement for the Government as to how concerned it wants to be about the indigenous population that probably loses out."

Corcaigh's correct about the football, the political right haven't a clue about that either.

rob_fmttm Posted on 10/01/2008 11:24
This boards swing to the political right.

Just to let everyone know borobill1 is now banned from this site - what was a pretty decent debate degenerated when bill decided to tell us all about the bnp and link to their site. There is no way that this site should be used as a recruiting ground for racist extremist thugs.

Critical_Bill Posted on 10/01/2008 11:27
This boards swing to the political right.

Banned because of his political leanings?

BarnesBoroFC Posted on 10/01/2008 11:34
This boards swing to the political right.

I don't think it was right to ban him at all.

If Cambridge university can invite the BNP to a Q&A, then why must we be protected!

Critical_Bill Posted on 10/01/2008 11:38
This boards swing to the political right.

Barnes, I think we should leave it. The Stasi are watching.

zaphod Posted on 10/01/2008 11:39
This boards swing to the political right.

I don't think borobill stood a serious chance of recruiting anyone. He just proved that the BNP is still a bunch of racist nutters, despite their attempts at improving their image.

Ivan_Drago Posted on 10/01/2008 11:41
This boards swing to the political right.

"Have a little look at the BNP bloke's responses to the rumoured Downing exit. I also find that the right are so far up their own backsides when it comes to football opinion, read Lord David or whatever he's now"

Well apart from the fact this is one of the most moronic nonsensical posts I have ever read. Allow me to reply.

Firstly I am not, nor have I ever been right wing, it just appears that way because this site is infested with socialist monkeys who repeat something endlessly and convince themselves it is true.

Red_Rebel is fully aware that he is at one extreme why don't the rest of you pseudo-communist wake up too. At least he is well informed and understands the reasons for his views.

I know more about socialism that 90% of you so called socialists, I have seen its effects and it's not for me. I am a capitalist, this is no way makes me a right wing bigot, which is were some of you seem to be confused about.

If you're looking for the hang em and flog em lot, look at the likes of Elnino. He's a true right winter.
I am slightly left of centre on social issues and immigration and slightly right of centre on crime. It would be rather hypocritical of me to dislike immigration given my own personal passage.

This is not my opinion, I have had to fill in many analysis forms and they always come up the same.

Secondly, I am arrogant when dealing with you because you're an idiot.
The banning of somebody for daring to say he supports the bnp says it all. Intolerant stupidity at its best, they're exactly the kind of people who are pushing gullable children towards the bnp.
Yours considerably more well informed that cocraigh the prat xx

sasboro1 Posted on 10/01/2008 11:44
This boards swing to the political right.

atleast i know who lord david is now. Why they continious changing of usernames? you stil make yourself look daft no matter how you try to reinvent yourself

Warwick_Hunt Posted on 10/01/2008 11:51
This boards swing to the political right.

I thought that dipS**** had left the site for good.

*Delusional pseudo-intelligent ape fantasist

Ivan_Drago Posted on 10/01/2008 11:53
This boards swing to the political right.?.

Don't be upset because I savaged you yesterday Sas.

sasboro1 Posted on 10/01/2008 11:55
This boards swing to the political right.?.

yeah whatever!? i dont even know what you on about!

Critical_Bill Posted on 10/01/2008 11:55
This boards swing to the political right.

sasboro, as you well know yourself, this new board's early settlers thought it would be funny to pose as others.

Muttley Posted on 10/01/2008 11:55
This boards swing to the political right.?.

Why the constant name changes?

littlejimmy Posted on 10/01/2008 11:57
This boards swing to the political right.

Superb, ridsdale. Truly superb. And people say you're losing your touch.

Anyway, sorry I'm late. I've got better things to do than lie in wait for more mentions from my fan club.

Buddy Posted on 10/01/2008 12:01
This boards swing to the political right.

I think that market economics should mostly be left to do what they do without interference by government, that public services should never be provided by private companies, that border and migration controls should be abolished, and that no religion should ever have any influence on, er, anything.

Can you tell me whether I am left or right please?

Ivan_Drago Posted on 10/01/2008 12:02
This boards swing to the political right.

You're a miserable old B***** who is the worst message board moderator I have ever seen if that helps Buddy.

littlejimmy Posted on 10/01/2008 12:03
This boards swing to the political right.

I don't think people like the BNP sympathiser should be banned. They can be beaten and sent packing with good debate.




Ivan_Drago Posted on 10/01/2008 12:09
This boards swing to the political right.

Lj, I was actually chatting to a bnp candidate recently, he is a neighbour of a friend, he is 18 and from Eston. I was ready to savage him and mock his views. I fully expected him to be a knuckle dragging thunder head.

The truth is, he was an incredibly intelligent young man annoyed at his personal circumstances and looking for some kind of radical change, sadly the main parties are offering little to people trying to find their way, I fully expect extreme parties to grow in popularity whilst the main 3 remain such unelectable baboons. Banning people who back them...reminds me of the rise of the nazi party.

Buddy Posted on 10/01/2008 12:15
This boards swing to the political right.

It neither helps nor answers the question. Ta anyway though.

littlejimmy Posted on 10/01/2008 12:19
This boards swing to the political right.

There are several issues with that. The fact that this guy feels the need to join them is worrying. It hints at massive disillusionment, and that is obvious right across the political spectrum. Also the fact that they are able to attract people who are more mainstream in the main is worrying, because they are succeeding in portraying themselves as moderate. The truth is, they are a danger and still harbour some nasty people and views, as anyone can find out by reading the link about their meeting posted above. I do agree with your last point, though. They have to be engaged and argued with. Denying them the platform enables them to martyr themselves and tell people they're being gagged.

Ivan_Drago Posted on 10/01/2008 12:19
This boards swing to the political right.

[:)]

moxzin Posted on 10/01/2008 12:21
This boards swing to the political right.

Buddy I'd say you were an orthodox Leftist except your economic views are much too bourgeois for most on that side. You're in a Post-Marxian world where anything goes, comrade. Although I've never met anyone with those combination of views before.

BarnesBoroFC Posted on 10/01/2008 12:23
This boards swing to the political right.

Surely this has become inquorate until we unbanned this guy?

I'm rapidly losing interest in the thread.

Buddy Posted on 10/01/2008 12:25
This boards swing to the political right.

Excellent. Can I be an "individualist"?

Smogmeister61 Posted on 10/01/2008 12:26
This boards swing to the political right.

Can someone tell me why it is OK for the people North of the border to vote in a Scottish national Party yet the merest mention of a BNP for example gets everyone on their high horse?
(Not that I'm a BNP supporter....I suppose I'm one of those Daily Mail right wingers!)

moxzin Posted on 10/01/2008 12:30
This boards swing to the political right.

Yeah but everyone wants to be an individualist, isn't it a bit boring? To get things done we have to band together.

captain5 Posted on 10/01/2008 12:33
This boards swing to the political right.

I've never seen someone liken the SNP to the BNP in that way before.

Very good. [:D]

Ivan_Drago Posted on 10/01/2008 12:38
This boards swing to the political right.

Captain - Nationalist views are deemed unacceptable in England, so it's not a completely unfair comparison. The Guardian readers have become apologists for all of 'our' empires sins and we must all repent. Apparently.

Buddy Posted on 10/01/2008 12:38
This boards swing to the political right.

Quite mox, but surely the banding together should be per issue rather than per ideology/dogma? I might march with Mark Thomas against the Iraq war, but against him on (I dunno) Tesco profits or something.

Smogmeister61 Posted on 10/01/2008 12:39
This boards swing to the political right.

Muchas Grassyarse senor...... (dont know how to do smileys!)

littlejimmy Posted on 10/01/2008 12:40
This boards swing to the political right.

I am anti-abortion.

Label me now, mofos.

Ivan_Drago Posted on 10/01/2008 12:43
This boards swing to the political right.

You're a confused hypocrtical sensitive middle-class jock who knows f all about football.

BarnesBoroFC Posted on 10/01/2008 12:43
This boards swing to the political right.

um... Catholic?

Smogmeister61 Posted on 10/01/2008 12:44
This boards swing to the political right.

Sooooooo to put it in laymans terms... the lefties/PC brigade are like one of Hugh Fernley Whittingstalls 'Chicken Out' Free-range brigade members and the right wingers are the 'They're only fekn chickens for god's sake and I want a cheap one'?

littlejimmy Posted on 10/01/2008 12:44
This boards swing to the political right.

Hmm. Snappy and succinct. I like it.

borobuddah Posted on 10/01/2008 12:58
This boards swing to the political right.

No Crapio again?

zaphod Posted on 10/01/2008 12:58
This boards swing to the political right.

The names of parties don't mean much. Labour isn't really a left wing party any more. The Conservatives are trying to be the party of change.

The SNP (a left-wing party) has completely different policies from the BNP. Parties with disreputable ideologies, like the BNP, choose names which disguise their nature.

red_rebel Posted on 10/01/2008 12:59
This boards swing to the political right.

Buddy, ignore Mox, you're not really a leftist given those Ready, Steady, Cook style handful of ingredients. It is too small a sample of views to be definitive.

From what you have said, apart from the proviso that public services should be part of the state you are lassez faire on economics. I would say that put you in a tradition that in this country has always been described as "one nation Tory", the people that Thatcher described as 'wets'.

We know that is not true of you though. We would need more information for a fuller pigeon holing. I suspect if you ticked a few more boxes - crime, welfare, the family, contitutional reform, civil liberties etc - we could safely move you into the Ashdown area of the old Liberal Party.







rob_fmttm Posted on 10/01/2008 13:11
This boards swing to the political right.

Have just had a phone conversation with borobill who confirms he is not a member of the bnp. We spoke for a fair while and good on him for phoning.

So OK for the sake of fairness - my reasons for not wanting the BNP publicised are many. Starting with fly me to the moon has always been firmly anti racist in its stance, we support initiatives like Show Racism the Red Card and Kick It Out. As a fanzine and this is the website of the fanzine we are strongly opposed to any person or party that seeks to judge or discriminate against another because of skin colour. In my opinion that is a cornerstone of what the BNP stands for.

As I said to Bill and have mentioned many times before I was personally threatened by people telling me they were members of the BNP. This was outside the Riverside several years ago - the threats were because I had been quoted in the Gazette saying something along the lines of hating to see any racism in Middlesbrough.

The threats had enough substance to be taken very seriously by the football club and the police. It came as a big shock to me and I had to take on board a great deal of advice at the time about safety and security etc.

I'm totally for free speech but to me groups like the BNP are all about limiting the freedom of speech and movement for others. Whether that be by the implied threat of violence or a fundamental belief they have that threatens the beliefs, customs of others.

We can debate about left and right, liberalism, communism etc but I don't see anyone else linking to manifestos etc. Borobill has explained he wasn't seeking to use this website as a recruiting ground but that is exactly the way many from the BNP have done in the past. That is why the initials were banned for many years.

The very fact I feel uncomfortable typing this shows how threatening a group like this can be even to a white, middle aged football fan just trying to get on with supporting his team and his town.

Buddy Posted on 10/01/2008 13:23
This boards swing to the political right.

Good post Rob.

rebel - can you include some sample questions or do I have to come up with well-thought-out standpoints?

OK then -

crime - no capital punishment under any circumstances ever (do as I do etc), prison sentences to be based on protecting the public rather than on punishment per se, sentencing should reflect the crime rather than the consequences in most cases.

welfare - not sure tbh. I instinctively support a state safety net for those unable to generate their own income through no fault of their own. How's that?

family - not really an issue of any relevance to the state if y'ask me.

constitutional reform - I see where you're heading with this Lib Dem angle. [:)] Wholly elected second chamber under a similar system to that used for the European elections please. Retain the constitutional monarchy as it's not hurting anyone and is nice to look at.

civil liberties - he who sacrifices liberty for security deserves neither - is that the quote?

pierrequiroule Posted on 10/01/2008 13:32
This boards swing to the political right.

Why the desire to be pigeon-holed Buddy? The state (of any ideology) likes to pigeon-hole the population because it stops the pigeons looking sideways at the bigger picture, and the pigeons are happy because they can identify their enemies.

Buddy Posted on 10/01/2008 13:35
This boards swing to the political right.

I don't want to be pigeonholed, my original post was making precisely that point. However, as people have now started, I shall allow them to continue. This does not make me any more likely to join a political party or change my views on something it doesn't agree with.

Critical_Bill Posted on 10/01/2008 13:36
This boards swing to the political right.

I'm surprised that anyone actually gives a toss as to which way you are inclined.

red_rebel Posted on 10/01/2008 13:37
This boards swing to the political right.

The capital punishment and family responses push you a bit more in a libetarian direction but the notion of welfare as a safety net for the deserving poor reinforces the 'one nation' element.

The constitutional response is a classic British pragmatic fudge that is 'small c' conservative in essence but the position on civil liberties would mark you out as a maverick within the wets.

I think you would sit comfortably on the 'left' of the old pre-Thatcher Tory party but would occasional cross the floor on votes on social issues but I can't see you comfortable in the Labour party, old or New. You're not Ken Clarke are you?

pierrequiroule Posted on 10/01/2008 13:40
This boards swing to the political right.

But it does show a touch of insecurity.

He's not Ken Clarke red, but I think I know who you are - but your secret's safe with me.

Buddy Posted on 10/01/2008 13:42
This boards swing to the political right.

I do hope not, because I rather suspect that if I were I would be required to represent moxzin in the United Kingdom Parliament, and that would never do..... [:)]

Buddy Posted on 10/01/2008 13:43
This boards swing to the political right.

I don't think it does pierre, I'm merely interested as to what answers they come up with. If rebel said he thought I was Nick Griffin it would make no difference to how I thought, other than that I would think he was less perceptive than he actually is.

red_rebel Posted on 10/01/2008 13:46
This boards swing to the political right.

OCh, were only messing around.

Cue 322nd link to political compass.....

Decent_Left Posted on 10/01/2008 14:05
This boards swing to the political right.

I'm pleased you unbanned him Rob.

Any one either seriously or unseriously connecting themselves or promoting the views of those nutcases needs constant exposure to reason which will eventually win out.

Given the personal threats I can understand your reticence, but banning them only adds to their imaginary persecution complex.

And as for 263 I love his view that those who are anti-racist, anti-homophobic, anti-sexist and share an enlightened world view of humanity in general are considered to be giving the boro a bad reputation.

2 great laughs in one day.

Ivan_Drago Posted on 10/01/2008 14:11
This boards swing to the political right.

Almost as good a laugh as your name, typical smug cardigan wearing Guardian readers who consider themselves the 'decent' minority with exclusive rights to high morales.

The_263 Posted on 10/01/2008 14:27
This boards swing to the political right.

Decent left; my point (which you have conveniently or inconeveniently overlooked) was that the core team of FMTTM have been guilty of conforming to and conveying all MFC's propaganda in recent years - adopting a stance that not always represented the average Boro fan on the terraces but in the same sense were never shy coming forward to ram home their 'independent' political opinion. Whether or not FMTTM is right wing or left wing is irrelevant - I hope you understand now.

Decent_Left Posted on 10/01/2008 14:30
This boards swing to the political right.

Keep up Ivan, us Decents aren't that keen on the Rushbridger Grauniad, especially as his influence managed to unseat the best editor The Observer has had for generations, and his bizarre refusal to do the decent thing earlier with Seamus Milne.

I don't own a cardy either.

Smug, well when I'm correct I enjoy a little gloat, especially when you reactionary types lose your rag over the untrue, the misinformed and the gutter level opinions fed to you by the mail/sun/express/star.

lee_ding_geek Posted on 10/01/2008 16:20
This boards swing to the political right.

blah di blah blah blah

rob_fmttm Posted on 10/01/2008 16:38
This boards swing to the political right.

What are you talking about 263? And who or just what is this core team of fmttm? The whole point of the website and the fanzine is that it is as we say by the fans for the fans. It's a mouthpiece for supporters not for me. That's why we are all here.

Now, what gives me personally a right to spout off in the media? Well, they contact me not the other way around and I suppose the fact I pay to go to every game home and away gives some value and credance to my opinion. It's only my own opinion I express though bottom line.

If someone asks me what people are saying on the message board or what I hear when I walk around the shops I'll give that over as well.

I'm not here to spout propoganda - I do not apologise for being a Boro fan however.

borobuddah Posted on 10/01/2008 18:13
This boards swing to the political right.

All the apologists for the BNP on here should hang their heads in shame, what would your Grand-dads think?

Uncle_harry Posted on 10/01/2008 19:17
This boards swing to the political right.

'Core Team' my arse.Ther is no 'core team' - Years ago I, a boro fan wrote a page about footy, I sent it to Rob (whom I had never met) - he put it in. Thats all there was to it.
He never asked about my politics before or since. He doesnt know them - I dont tell him, he doesnt ask, I dont know his. The same goes for the few other fans I've met who have, for their own fun written for the fanzine. I've never spoke about any Party politics with anyone who has written for ftmtmtm

Before every home game Rob sticks a thread on here inviting people to put letters in. He never says only letters that supports the club's corporate line or only letters that are in line with a political stance, there's nothing to stop anyone putting stuff in. Why dont you put a bit in '263' and test out your 'theory'.

As for the 'swing' to the poliotical right - I think this is also cobblers. L:ooking down the posts I dont see lots of right wing views. There's always been a range hopefully there always will be. however its Rob & Steve's livelihood and if they chose not to allow neo-nazis to use this site as a platform that's their right

The_263 Posted on 10/01/2008 20:10
This boards swing to the political right.

My description of a 'core team' was a reference to the contributors to the fanzine and the regulars who policed the old message board. I am of course referring to the regulars - who seemingly all held unilateral views on all matters MFC - which always came across as a 'don't rock the MFC boat' stance. In terms of politics it did appear to gravitate to the left - there was the odd exception - not that political persuasion is important with the point I am making here. Nonetheless, I always found it suspicious that nothing negative was allowed to pervade the site, regardless of the degree of groundswell of opinion in the real world. For instance, there was nothing but utter contempt for McClaren from fans during the latter months of his tenure but the 'core' held a single view and he was defended by a seemingly majority on here. Even when he left - you Rob - said on live radio that Boro fans would one day regret his departure. You were not representing my view and many other views. That is one example. Bernie, also got undue criticism for having a go - not that I personally value Slaven's opinion - but some of his opinions struck a chord with many Boro fans.

Do not take this as a personal attack - just an opinion on how the FMTTM could be more independent and hold a more cross-sectional viewpoint.

Uncle_harry Posted on 10/01/2008 20:26
This boards swing to the political right.

I contribute to the fanzine and have done so for a while now - no one invited me to, no one has asked me to take or avoid any 'line'- I'm aware of lots of people who contribute because they want to and and dont form any 'core team'. Like I said before every single issue Rob invites Boro fans to write a bit for the fanzine - anyone can put their point of view in. You can but you chose not to - fair enough but Rob can only print the breadth of views that he gets sent

AS for 'nothing negative was allowed to pervade the site' there we loads and loads of critical posts all the time - you seem to make very sweeping statements of your particular viewpoint and say them like they were facts. Iare you seriously arguing that no critical posts were allowed on the ftmtmtmtm board?

Be honest - there were plenty

The_263 Posted on 10/01/2008 20:29
This boards swing to the political right.

Of course there were critical posts - but none of the regular posters subscribed to any of them - in fact they'd argue against them. Somethimg I found strange. If I am wrong then please highlight instances where FMTTM have gone against the club and sided with the criticism. Look at what happened to Bernie - so I can see the sense in towing a line - to an extent.

borobuddah Posted on 10/01/2008 21:44
This boards swing to the political right.

Rob is loyal, but has never excused the Clubs mistakes, just tried to explain them.

Above criticism in the charges against him by lesser fans with lesser effort and committment. IMHO

Uncle_harry Posted on 10/01/2008 21:48
This boards swing to the political right.

so when you say 'nothing negative was allowed to pervade the site' you agree that negative posts are allowed to pervade this sight.

Your view of Fmttm as a single entity is a vast over simplification an issue at random - number 409 (spurs) has bits from 21 Boro fans there are no 'meetings' or anything 21 Boro fans put in what they wanted to. In years of writing for them Rob has never interfered with what I;ve written and I;ve never asked him what I should o shoudlnt write about- there isnt just 'pro' item or an negative item - theres some historical pieces theres some about football in general there 's some daft stuff and some factual interviews & reports - if you want items that criticise some aspects of the current club - there's a letter on p 29 about the 'smart card ' system an article by andrew glover on page 5 talking about the poor displays and about trying to avoid an 'impending full blown crisis ' - Robs editorial starts with 'things have gone from bad to worse ' - hardly 'positive spin ' just a straight writing from Boro fans -Granted its not a critique in the vein of 'Southgate is a horse faced coont' from someone on here last week.

We 're all Boro fans so we want the club to do well ( although sometimes I wonder reading posts on here)
but If you think your view isnt represented before every single issue Rob asks for fans to put their views forward - put yours in

Muttley Posted on 10/01/2008 22:39
This boards swing to the political right.

"Of course there were critical posts - but none of the regular posters subscribed to any of them - in fact they'd argue against them."

So what you are complaining about is not that critical posts were not allowed rather that the nasty regulars disagreed with them? FFS if you are not prepared to argue your corner then don't post. Some people take it personally when several posters disagree with them (eg Lord Ravid or whatever he is called this week) that doesn't mean you are not allowed to post on here rather that you have posted something that other people do not agree with. It's life get over it. When al else fails change your username and move on.

My favourites at the moment are the fundamentalist atheists who proselytise on here about the evils of religion. They're funny.

red_rebel Posted on 10/01/2008 22:44
This boards swing to the political right.

The idea of a "core" following some kind of conscious unspoken pro-club agenda in order to preserve their own position is just the tired old bogeyman of the clique by another name.

It is a sweeping statement without any real political/statistical value whatsoever unless you:

a) are ready to name exactly who "the core" are, and

b) have some kind of data-base that shows which way they jumped in public on issues like McClaren, Eindhoven tickets, quality and design of Errea shirts and their availability outside Teesside, stewarding, shop staff, team selection, ticket prices, Southgate's appointment, Lambie's faxing skills, scouting, tactics and the temperature of the pies.

I suspect that whoever you think "the core" are (and everyone will name a different group, based on which poster names they see most frequently) they will be split on almost every issue.

Bren_MFC Posted on 10/01/2008 22:55
This boards swing to the political right.

Lesser fans, a fan is a fan, lesser in whose opinion.

ridsdale Posted on 10/01/2008 23:04
This boards swing to the political right.

"My favourites at the moment are the fundamentalist atheists who proselytise on here about the evils of religion. They're funny."

Got to say I agree with that. So many equate being an atheist with being intelligent. Despite the fact there are many very intelligent Chritians etc.

Rebel, never has a man used so many words to obscure a weak argument. Why people are fooled because you employ those buzz words to cover your lost arguments baffles me. Your politics belong on a messageboard among your lower middle class friends. This is not the agitation of the revolutionary, more the Buddy of politics. A collection of unknown socialist writers who rarely leave home.

You are the stamp collector and train spotter of red brick university, casual clothed 70's quasi Marxist angry young men. Except Tariq Ali and Co. have moved on. You are a bit like a Led Zeppelin reunion tour that still does the clubs.

Living in a time warp, surrounded by warped angry old men who, like yourself, will surely miss whatever discrete change that is bound to happen.

The revolution will bypass you and your comfortable friends.

No doubt, we will be treated to one of your wordy essays on why it all went wrong.

A happy New Year to you and your family.

Love, Ridsdale xxxx.

red_rebel Posted on 10/01/2008 23:22
This boards swing to the political right.

3/10 Rids, must try harder.

Your faux-Moxy insult-by-numbers stereotyping is a bit flat these days, as tired as you say my politics are.

I liked the stamp collector of the red brick university line though. It reminded me of 'The History Man' and pleasures of "the horizontal road to socialism".

ridsdale Posted on 10/01/2008 23:28
This boards swing to the political right.

One does one's best..........

Ivan_Drago Posted on 10/01/2008 23:30
This boards swing to the political right.

"Smug, well when I'm correct I enjoy a little gloat, especially when you reactionary types lose your rag over the untrue, the misinformed and the gutter level opinions fed to you by the mail/sun/express/star."

This is exactly the kind of ill-informed stupidity I was referring to, I actually read the Times and occasionally the observer. I'm not at all reactionary I am pro-active in everything I do, unlike you I am not a sheep. Your smug attitude is baffling, all I can assume is ignorance is masked by arrogance.

Like I said I am far more informed about the left then you will ever be, I have seen it first hand, not in a 50 year old book.

Ivan_Drago Posted on 10/01/2008 23:36
This boards swing to the political right.

The denial of the clique is akin to the Nazi's denying the holocaust. You should hang your heads in shame - the cyber equivalent of Himler is amongst us.

To be fair Red was never a proper clique member he just spoke about it so often, he was considered a clique member by the ignorant.

The real clique was UH, Gillandi, Specky, Buddy..etc

borobuddah Posted on 10/01/2008 23:46
This boards swing to the political right.

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

Ivan_Drago Posted on 10/01/2008 23:47
This boards swing to the political right.

Who did you call when Stalin came?

borobuddah Posted on 10/01/2008 23:51
This boards swing to the political right.

My comrades, I had many.

The side you are on is hateful

Who do you love?

Where is the humanity in your wworld view?

Ivan_Drago Posted on 10/01/2008 23:55
This boards swing to the political right.

Which side am I on exactly? The anti extremist side? My hate for you is more to do with the fact that you're a wannbe bully.

ridsdale Posted on 11/01/2008 00:04
This boards swing to the political right.

buddah, that is so very crass..................

Rebel will like it mate...

So out of tune.

Buddy Posted on 11/01/2008 08:48
This boards swing to the political right.

Hang on. If he's the Buddy of politics, what am I the Buddy of? Or weren't you talking about me?

littlejimmy Posted on 11/01/2008 09:07
This boards swing to the political right.

Oh dear. Is this still going on?

I think a few people need to club together and form a "get-a-life gang".

speckyget Posted on 11/01/2008 09:15
This boards swing to the political right.

[:D] lj

Ridsdale's 'lower middle class' obsession is always worth tuning in for though. Shows you can be both an inverted snob and the regular style of snob at the same time, which is a very neat trick indeed.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 11/01/2008 09:16
This boards swing to the political right.

The percentage boys. Haven't got time for them.

littlejimmy Posted on 11/01/2008 09:29
This boards swing to the political right.

Indeed. Capio's attack on my supposed Middle Class status is quite ironic when you read yet another poster being dismissed as a "pikey" or an "oik", especially if they have a strong Teesside accent.

red_rebel Posted on 11/01/2008 09:31
This boards swing to the political right.

As Comissar said at the last clique meet, Rids is just peeved because he thought he had got shot of the tube spotting Guardianista grammar fascists to become the cleverest kid in class but you have all swarmed back and are poking fun again.

littlejimmy Posted on 11/01/2008 09:35
This boards swing to the political right.

He loves it really. It gives him a raison d'etre.

Capybara Posted on 11/01/2008 09:36
This boards swing to the political right.

'tube spotting Guardianista grammar fascists'

[:D]

'tube-spotting' should have a hyphen, by the way.

toxic_bob Posted on 11/01/2008 09:36
This boards swing to the political right.

This thread encapsulates the reasons why I love this board

Posted on 11/01/2008 10:10
This boards swing to the political right.

Hello Ivan

Lets go through the history of our disagreement.

My first post was aimed at those who openly advocated a positive stance towards the reactionary right who use a delusional view of personal oppression imposed by a body defined by them as the PC Left - a view which is spoonfed to them by the mail/sun/express & star on a daily basis. The ultimate destination of this thinking was the post by borobill.

My second post declared my free speech credentials and then had a pop at 263 who stated

"I think the left clique were giving the FMTTM a bad repuatation and completely mis-representing the general viewpoint of the average Boro fan. It was also obvious that many of them knew (know) little about football matters and seldom had opinions on football to match their political beliefs"

Read that first sentance in isolation and it clearly translates as "Boro supporters as a whole are politically on the reactionary right". Since then he has backtracked and said that in fact to get his true veiwpoint we should only have started reading his contribution from the second sentence onwards. But it's too late, the cats out of the bag.

You then decided to have a go at my username.

I responded, and lumped you in with the reactionaries.

You take offence at that and come out with a bit too much defensiveness and a "whose got a biggest dick" claim regarding knowlegde of the history of socialism. This is second time in the thread you have felt you have had to state this, so now your protesting too much.

Defensiveness, protesting too much, endowment overclaim. Hmm, you might have read the books but you clearly didn't understand the words. You may have lived through it, but the meetings had always finished by the time you got there. Sad really.

Current socialism lesson. Decent Left currently has me categorised as a racist neocon by the illiberal left. I'll give you that one for free..




speckyget Posted on 11/01/2008 10:15
This boards swing to the political right.

Who on earth posted that?

Buddy Posted on 11/01/2008 10:19
This boards swing to the political right.

The phrase 'tube spotting Guardianista grammar fascists' rather suggests that one particular member of this group might be the leader....

red_rebel Posted on 11/01/2008 10:22
This boards swing to the political right.

Good job I took out "chuntering over a half of real ale" then.

That above post was the headless Decent Left by the way.

ridsdale Posted on 11/01/2008 10:22
This boards swing to the political right.

"As Comissar said at the last clique meet, "


I thought Comissar had bought himself his own messageboard?

The_263 Posted on 11/01/2008 10:22
This boards swing to the political right.

Whoever posted that: I re-read those two sentences and still I am not convinced that my argument is not based on politics but on footballing matters.

'Cats out of the bag' FFS grow up!

zaphod Posted on 11/01/2008 10:30
This boards swing to the political right.

I don't think it's helpful to equate socialism with left-wing politics any more. Socialism, in the sense of ownership of the means of production by the workers, is dead & buried, but left-wing ideals such as supporting the disadvantaged & oppressed, Government provision of public services and redistributive tax policies are still alive & well.

Ivan_Drago Posted on 11/01/2008 10:32
This boards swing to the political right.

Sorry. I am not allowed to talk to strangers.

Decent_Left Posted on 11/01/2008 10:48
This boards swing to the political right.

'Kin hell, who decapitated my username.

Its that junta I tell ya.

red_rebel Posted on 11/01/2008 11:07
This boards swing to the political right.

Ridsdale has built in a feature that if you write a post that is more than four paragraphs long it automatically identifies you as an intellectual and decapitates you.

Capybara Posted on 11/01/2008 11:10
This boards swing to the political right.

' "chuntering over a half of real ale" '

Pint, please. I'll give you the 'chuntering' mind [:)]

red_rebel Posted on 11/01/2008 11:32
This boards swing to the political right.

It makes me laugh that in all the years of anti-clique rioting and mud-slinging the mob always target innocent bystanders like Buddy and Rob and never point the finger at the sinister, string- pulling Mr Big manipulating everything behind the scenes Capy.

Critical_Bill Posted on 11/01/2008 11:35
This boards swing to the political right.

rebel, I think littlejimmy is probably feeling a bit put out that you didn't give him a name check when you meantion the 'real clique'.
Hopefully it will make him aware of his self-importance.

littlejimmy Posted on 11/01/2008 11:36
This boards swing to the political right.

I know. I don't know how he has managed to restrain himself, what with that missing apostrophe in the title.

littlejimmy Posted on 11/01/2008 11:37
This boards swing to the political right.

Here's Bill, the founder member of the get-a-life gang.

I've never been able to reach the uber-clique because my music tastes aren't nearly obscure enough.