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FwenchFwank Posted on 13/12 23:44
BIG RON Documentary

Just watched this on BBC1, Interested to hear other peoples thoughts. In my opinion Big Ron ain't a racist, a bit silly maybe, but no racist. He's of an older generation when the N word was used commonly, my grandfather's cat was called n**ger in the late 60's and he wasn't a racist, my grandfather not the cat. But what really p_issed me off was Mr Darcus Hall, suggesting Ron should join the NF?? This man has made a career out of his race, f_uckin knob.

rutters Posted on 13/12 23:46
re: BIG RON Documentary

well said m8..agree totally

nicky_2006 Posted on 13/12 23:48
re: BIG RON Documentary

I don't think he is racist at all, the bloke has learned his lesson.

borobadge Posted on 13/12 23:49
re: BIG RON Doc

you mean Mr Darcus Howe ?..

holgate_rochey Posted on 13/12 23:50
re: BIG RON Documentary

yeah i watched it, Ron is in no way a racist IMO, its been blown so far out of proportion its unbelivable. Its largely to do with all this bollox of being "politically Incorrect " etc. I agree with what you said about Mr Darcus Howe being a fcuking knob, but by saying that it probably means were racist aswell.

--- Post edited by holgate_rochey on 13/12 23:51 ---

FwenchFwank Posted on 13/12 23:51
re: BIG RON Documentary

Is it Darcus Howe? He used to do a program on Channel 4 called the Devils Advocate.

Borotmt Posted on 13/12 23:57
re: BIG RON Documentary

Ive never seen a more racist, slanted opinion expressed on television for years than when I watch Darcus Howes appraisal of muslim/pakistan/somali gangs, he lost respect he once had, talk about racially stereotyping , he took the biscuit!

FwenchFwank Posted on 14/12 0:08
re: BIG RON Documentary

On a lighter note, nearly_new_casual, fat aussie w_anker is not a racist term.

Gillandi Posted on 14/12 0:09
re: BIG RON Documentary

"This man [Darcus Howe] has made a career out of his race, f_uckin knob."

I'd call that a racist comment.

I'd say he's made a living out of being an intelligent man and a good communicator.

He was spot on in his assessment of Ron Atkinson I thought. The big guy no longers knows the country he's living in.

Fischer Posted on 14/12 0:15
re: BIG RON Documentary

I found the programme baffling really. I don't know what it was for, or what point it was trying to make. There's certainly room for a brilliant TV debate about and involving Ron Atkinson and racism in football, and it seemed that the bloke himself would have been up for it, as undoubtedly would his many detractors.

This was just a succession of contrived TV opportunities that told us nothing we didn't already know. I can picture the excited TV executives brainstorming and planning ways to waste their inflated budget. Let's take Ron to Alabama! (tick) To a Museum of Racist Imagery! (tick) To a right-wing radio station! (tick). All the while getting US sociologists and commentators who've spent 20 minutes in the bloke's company to decide whether he's racist or not, interspersed with a few soundbites from UK faces that were so deprived of context they were virtually meaningless. It just felt like an opportunistic chance to make a ripping TV show rather than any serious attempt to look at the issues. Louis Theroux would have made a better job of it.

And at the end of it all I'm still none the bloody wiser as to whether Ron Atkinson is a card-carrying racist with an axe to grind or a daft old buffer with a big mouth. An opportunity wasted.

bodmass Posted on 14/12 0:15
re: BIG RON Documentary

What gets me is, its OK for one black man to address another black man by the N word. But if a white man uses it all hell breaks loose. If people genuinely want to eradicate the use of the N word then they have to persuade everybody to stop using it, black and white.

As for criticism of Political Correctness. I have to agree with the comment at the end of the show 'We are now replacing one form of intolerance with another'.

borobuddah Posted on 14/12 0:18
re: BIG RON Documentary

There have been enough references to his previous on here to leave me in no doubt.

No he's not card carrying, far from it, but his superiority complex goes deep.

FwenchFwank Posted on 14/12 0:24
re: BIG RON Documentary

Gillandi, I don't wish to get into an argument with you about racism, we know nothing about each other. But you claim I've made racist remark. I am not from the north, and originate from the Midlands, a truley multi-cultural society, my best friends at school and college were black. I am not racist, no matter what you may think. I too have watched Darcus Howe's on TV and totally respected his views, but his performance on this program, in my opinion, was way off the mark. See link

Link: Troublesome

ShoreditchRed Posted on 14/12 0:25
re: BIG RON Documentary

It's alright for a balck man to use the N word, not a white man like big ron

ridsdale Posted on 14/12 0:33
re: BIG RON Documentary

Ron is no racist. His record with black players proves that.

Ron may no longer recognise the country he lives in, but it has
changed a lot in his time. I think Ron has done more for young
black players than Marcus will ever do.

Mr. Howe has done very nicely, thank you, from being the rep. for
the middle class p.c. class. An Uncle Thomas who harps back a
long time ago to blame us all for the slave trade.

We, the working class played no part whatsoever in this. The
british ruling class did. But without the collaberation of the
African leaders from that time, there would have been no slave
trade. Be honest, the slaves were sold by their own people.

And it was the liberal classes of this country that ended the
despicable trade in human flesh. Good people like the Quakers.

Not a proud past for us, but we did end this sad affront to

Ron is not a person to be admired, but neither is he some monster
to be strung from the nearest tree.

FwenchFwank Posted on 14/12 0:34
re: BIG RON Documentary

By the way Fischer, I thought that was a spot on post. I asked why? myself. I just hope it's not a desperate attempt for him to relaunch himself as a pundit on the BBC.

speckyget Posted on 14/12 0:34
re: BIG RON Documentary

They explained the 'black using n-word' dichotomy on the programme. Big Ron was baffled by it also. And that's going to be his legacy - a confused man who was forced into early retirement because he no longer understood his job properly.

But at least - telling comment from Adrian Chiles - Ron has forgiven himself.

joebolton Posted on 14/12 0:39
re: BIG RON Documentary

"The big guy no longers knows the country he's living in."

Not too sure about that comment.I know a lot of us would love to think we all live in a happy multi cultural society , but from experience, you just need to scratch the surface a bit and the attitudes of the 50's and 60's are right underneath.
Im not exagerating to say I hear the terms N**@ah , P@ki or when the perpetrater isnt 100% sure a general "Black B@st @rd" will suffice.This is from people aged 16 to 60.
Multicultural Britain ~ not too sure myself.

borobuddah Posted on 14/12 1:01
re: BIG RON Documentary

Rids even us working class folk benefitted from it.

Gillandi Posted on 14/12 1:13
re: BIG RON Documentary

Bodmass - To try and put it into perspective. Imagine society is your own living room and you have a couple of non white, lets for the sake of argument say afro-carribean dinner party guests, new friends from work and you want to make an impression. Would you think it polite to casually use the N word over the prawn cocktail starters because your son is upstairs listening to a NWA album?

It may well be the case that both you, your wife and your guests have no hang ups whatsoever about such words but as your guests are fairly new to your home i'd imagine you would be particularly sensitive on race issues as to not cause any offence until such a time as you all understand each other better. By this I mean, say Ainsley Harriott crops up on TV, you wouldn't call him a "black bastrad," more a bald or stupid one because you'd know theres a possibility that your guests have at some point encountered language like that themselves, such is life. Some experiences among non whites in the UK are a worse than others but unless you'd lived for years yourself in the Africas or Indies then your guests can be fairly sure that you, a white man in a historically white country has never had a problem with racist abuse. Nor will you ever have been hindered by racist landlords, employers or police officers etc.

You are in your right place, you have nothing to fear so the onus is on you to make your guests feel they are in the right place to which only a moron would deny they are. This comes with understanding and mutual respect. A dozen dinner dates down the line, with familiarity, you may all have a laugh about your ethnic differences together and it will never be a issue. Thats the way it should be but it takes time.

So it is with society. British born non whites are still suffering from the particularly inhospitable attitudes this country had in the 50's and 60's. The repatriated left to forever feel unwelcome.

The irony is that Ron Atkinson, if he had a brain in his head and could string a coherent sentence together could use his situation to the enormous benefit for the camapign against racism in society. Unfortuneately he doesn't even know that his reality is his best excuse and he is actually living in an ideal world where race is NOT an issue and words like that are NOT offensive.

He should wink, crack his crooked smile, jangle the banglees and campaign for us all to catch up with him. He can still look good while he's doing it and he'd be doing something worthwhile with his life.

He's contributed more to the languag than anyone else since Shakespeare, maybe he can extend his influence and deliver a post-race squabbling utopia.

What he's doing now won't the missus in botox injections for very long.

FrenchFwank - I'm aware of Darcus' work. In what way do you think he has made a career out of being black?

--- Post edited by Gillandi on 14/12 2:08 ---

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 14/12 8:49
re: BIG RON Documentary

Gillandi what if the guests were black and bald would you still call him a "bald basturd"??

Prejudices of any type should not be allowed, yet, some are condoned where as others are not, and that cannot be right.

Is it ok to call someone a "fat basturd", which is prejudice against someones weight?? This should be deemed just as bad, especially in a ever growing (weight wise) society.

I found it funny when Ron was talking to some american kids and the black girl said that it is ok for her to call her friends Nig_ga, but it is not ok for Ron to call her it. That is simply wrong, and creates a racial divide.

blotonthelandscape Posted on 14/12 8:55
re: BIG RON Documentary

Fisher, on 5 live this week they had the BBC woman who commissioned the show. She basically admitted to what you said, Ron Atkinson and race, bingo.

BTW did you see that the B NP booked a black DJ.

scuzzmonster Posted on 14/12 9:24
re: BIG RON Documentary

Dunno about Chiles' comment that Big Ron had 'forgiven himself' because I've never seen the big fella looking so uncomfortable, although I guess having your income slashed by 250k per annum is enough to make anyone uncomfortable. Perhaps if he could accept that he IS racist with a small 'r' - that's to say, generational, conditioned and not intentionally malicious - THEN he could move on. As it was, it really was quite pitiful watching him trying to claim otherwise. I don't think he gained himself any brownie points last night but daresay some TV execs might be thinking differently.

No pun intended in the final sentence.

--- Post edited by scuzzmonster on 14/12 9:31 ---

steve_gibson Posted on 14/12 9:26
re: BIG RON Documentary

The ex pat at the end who made the complaint about Rons comment in the 90 World cup wound me up. Would it have been a problem if Ron was commentating on England Vs Iceland and he said "I wonder if his mums at home watching in an igloo"

As for the fact its alright for blacks to use the N word and not whites is a load of rubbish. If its offensive, dont use it. Surely the fact that if your black you can say it, and if your not you cant is racist in its self.

--- Post edited by steve_gibson on 14/12 9:27 ---

The_Goatie Posted on 14/12 9:55
re: BIG RON Documentary

The programme's most telling comment was at the end by none other than his mate Frank Skinner. "If Ron was to die tomorrow he will not have any tributes but simply be known as racist Ron.

Whilst a lot may be able to forgive, zero tolerance of this stuff decreees his manstream career on TV is finished. And so it should.

King_Numpty Posted on 14/12 9:58
re: BIG RON Documentary

There were ten German bombers in the air,..........

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 14/12 10:00
re: BIG RON Documentary

nothing happened to the Spanish manager so why pick on Big Ron?

bandito Posted on 14/12 10:07
re: BIG RON Documentary

Dont for one minute think he is a racist, however he came across as being stuck in some sort of mid seventies time warp and very un-educated on the things you should and shouldnt say. The comment about "his mum should be up a tree" was new to me and did not strengthen his case whatsoever and made him look even more silly eventhought it was 14 yrs ago

stipey Posted on 14/12 10:11
re: BIG RON Documentary

the england spain game showed why nothing happened to the spanish manager.

Stuar_Tripley Posted on 14/12 10:15
re: BIG RON Documentary

the question should be, why hasn't anything been done about the Spanish managers comments, not the other way round.

Aragones should have been sacked, without a doubt.

I agree entirely with Fischer's comments on the programme. I switched over after 20 mins as i really didnt see the purpose of the show (other than Ron trying to keep his image up in the public eye). Are we really supposed to feel sympathy for a man who has a 1.5 mill mansion and spends his days playing golf...sounds like an ideal lifestyle to me!!

blotonthelandscape Posted on 14/12 10:18
re: BIG RON Documentary

Can I give this senario: There are 25 people in a field in Tanzania, 1 white 24 black. Do you think for one second one black lad will say to another Bobs the one with a blue jacket on, no he will say Bob is the white guy. Do we need to re-invent the Christian crusaders of the 19th centuary to teach them properly.

Are they all racist as well. Stop it.

The level we have got to on the racist debate is actully devaluing its cause. As I have said on another thread, one of my closest friends is a Sikh he thinks the levels people go to to prove that they are not racist is ridiculous.

BTW if anyone suggests I have a racist ounce in my body, be careful before you put it in writing.

--- Post edited by blotonthelandscape on 14/12 10:19 ---

CzechBoro Posted on 14/12 10:24
re: BIG RON Documentary

Aragones is certainly NOT off the hook with his racist comments

Link: Under Fire

the_thread_needler Posted on 14/12 10:34
re: BIG RON Documentary

How come people don't understand taking the Ni g g er word back? It's about reclamation and ownership. It's about taking the pain out of it so it is no longer a member of the racist's arsenal of abuse.

Imagine everyday people you didn't know called you a white bastid or a milk bottle c-nut, Or a tampon, or a honky wnaker.

You'd probably find it funny thinking about it for the first time. If you heard it every day you may find it tedious, or it may really annoy you in the sense that you may think, "well, yes I am a wnaker but I don't know why he has to call me a honky."

But it goes on and on, You get punched at a match, with spit and invective in your assialant's voice he calls you a "fckin honky".

And it hurts, but then you think, sticks and stones, you wind your mates up by calling them a honky. You are doing an impression of a scary bogeyman that gave you so much pain and fear but 'cos it's you your mates laugh at you and the word isn't so bad anymore, in fact it's funny, and life gets better.

And then some fat, thick, stupid dinosaur on the telly calls a sporting hero of yours a "lazy honky" and the spectre of the bad times bogeyman is back and it's a bit grim.

You dozy tampon.

blotonthelandscape Posted on 14/12 10:36
re: BIG RON Documentary

a bit like smogmonster scalves?

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 14/12 10:37
re: BIG RON Documentary

when we are trying to forget the racial past, why do some people persist in using the word Ni-g-ga and justifiying it by mentioning the past??

Most of the black people who use the word did not even grow up in that time and do not know anything about it so why use it??

It is still racist.

--- Post edited by RAZMOND_HWDR on 14/12 10:40 ---

the_thread_needler Posted on 14/12 10:55
re: BIG RON Documentary

"Most of the black people who use the word did not even grow up in that time and do not know anything about it"

has folklore and history been banned now?

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 14/12 10:58
re: BIG RON Documentary

so is it a good thing for Mos Def to use the word within his lyrics??

But not ok for Eminem??

the_thread_needler Posted on 14/12 11:00
re: BIG RON Documentary

I think Eminem should use it until someone lamps him to the point where he can no longer sing

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 14/12 11:02
re: BIG RON Documentary

thats just vulgar!! You sound like you have problems

towz Posted on 14/12 11:21
re: BIG RON Documentary

Perfectly summed up thread_needler. there will be a day when the word won't matter anymore and it will be forgotten. black people use it amongst themselves as a form of catharsis. for a white man to say that word when talking about or to a black man is condoning the history behind that word, a long and brutal history of white men oppressing black men. it dredges up memories of a shameful past. it is a black persons right to use it (if they want) as they as the ones who suffered from it and all it is associated with.

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 14/12 11:26
re: BIG RON Documentary

some people don`t use the word because they are trying to move on, however some people use it because they refuse to move on.

How can we then move on if this is the case??

You can`t say that todays society is different if people are still using the word because of a past society .

steve_gibson Posted on 14/12 11:30
re: BIG RON Documentary

"its alright for them to use it as they were the ones who suffered" What a load of crap. Did they suffer. No they never. Their forfathers might have but they didn't.

My grandparents suffered in the war. But that doesn't give me the right to harp on about the war and call all Germans Nazi's

speckyget Posted on 14/12 11:32
re: BIG RON Documentary

Are you seriously saying blacks aren't discriminated against today??

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 14/12 11:32
re: BIG RON Documentary

brilliantly said Steve Gibson, you are a god!

towz Posted on 14/12 11:37
re: BIG RON Documentary

All Black people suffered. Memories get passed down (as does language) through generations. Slavery and The Word were around for hundreds of years. Black people are visually distinct from white people and they were treated like animals for hundreds of years.

We weren't treated like animals by the Germans, we are not visually distinct from Germans. The Germans couldn't demean us as human beings with a single word.

--- Post edited by towz on 14/12 11:38 ---

steve_gibson Posted on 14/12 11:39
re: BIG RON Documentary

No I am not saying that. What I am saying is that some Blacks play the racism card when it suits them.

For example music. Turn on Radio 1, MTV, VH1 etc and there is a good chance you will see/hear songs by black artists. I would say they have more than a fair representation on mainstream music media.

Even so we have BBC Radio 1 Extra. A black only radio station. The Mobo awards recognising black music. I have no problem with this. But imagine I started a white only radio station. I would be branded as racist and be shut down.

So what I am saying is that it works both ways

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 14/12 11:41
re: BIG RON Documentary

'All Black people suffered'

Is that why Mos Def and a lot of other rappers use the word in every other lyrical line??

towz Posted on 14/12 11:44
re: BIG RON Documentary

Yes, that's my point.

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 14/12 11:45
re: BIG RON Documentary

The MOBO's is totally racist.

It is awards to black people who sing pop songs.

Where is the rock music (greenday, coldplay, U2 etc), where is the blues music etc etc..

towz Posted on 14/12 11:47
re: BIG RON Documentary

I'm not really interested in the MOBO's to be honest.

speckyget Posted on 14/12 11:47
re: BIG RON Documentary

You need to look up the definition of racist Razzer.

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 14/12 11:49
re: BIG RON Documentary


Do you think the MOBO's are racist?

Including one race and excluding another

towz Posted on 14/12 11:49
re: BIG RON Documentary


RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 14/12 11:52
re: BIG RON Documentary

why not? it excludes white people that sing black music.

--- Post edited by RAZMOND_HWDR on 14/12 11:53 ---

speckyget Posted on 14/12 11:53
re: BIG RON Documentary

What, you mean celebrating the cultural contribution of a minority that for generations was denied a means of artistic expression?

smalltime Posted on 14/12 11:53
re: BIG RON Documentary

Had to laugh when Ron referred to his comment as 'the alleged remark' and the commentary came straight back with 'nothing alleged about it'. That summed up Ron for me, throughout his life he has put his foot in it with off the cuff comments without engaging his brain first. That's what got him loved and eventually ridiculed by the public. I think it's all gone way over the top and he should be back in business coming out with his nonsense that gives us a laugh. After all, who hasn't said something they regretted later.........

ridsdale Posted on 14/12 11:56
re: BIG RON Documentary

Nick Griffin of the B_NP has been arrested. I would have thought
that was more important than anything Ron said. Days after
Tyndall the founder was arrested.

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 14/12 11:57
re: BIG RON Documentary

'What, you mean celebrating the cultural contribution of a minority that for generations was denied a means of artistic expression?'

How are Mis-Teeq doing that??

Didn`t Rock n Roll originate from black music?

speckyget Posted on 14/12 11:59
re: BIG RON Documentary

Yeah, and blacks were really given credit for that in the 50s...

zaphod Posted on 14/12 12:01
re: BIG RON Documentary

Not all black people suffered. There are huge areas of Africa which were not involved. My wife taught "Cry the Beloved Country" to black students in Malawi. They had never encountered any racism and my (white) wife found it very embarrassing to have to explain it to them. They found it quite difficult to grasp.

Africans don't use the n word; it's an American ghetto thing, I think.

As for Big Ron, many of that generation tend to have a paternalistic sort of racism. They view black people as inferior, but want to help in the same way as you want to help a child. Sounds ideal for a football manager, but in my opinion it's more insulting than dislike.

Ni**a was an insult even in the 1950s. I know because I was there!

dundeejock Posted on 14/12 12:02
re: BIG RON Documentary

Big Ron came across not as a racist but as an ignorant(in true sense of word)dinosaur.His attempts to explain himself and educate himself in the history of racism didn't show him in a very good way and hampered his case.
If everyone who has made a racist comment(either in anger or in jest) is sacked then nobody in Britain would have a job.
I agree with those earlier comments about Darcus Howe-if I was Ron I would have smacked him.

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 14/12 12:02
re: BIG RON Documentary

maybe not, but what has that got to do with today?

Why shouldn't Rock n Roll be classed as music from black origon, that we it would be a way of giving credit to 50s black music.

Instead of awarding Mis-Teeq just because they are black (their music is pure pop, probably originates from The Spice Girls).

Cheeky_Chops Posted on 14/12 12:04
re: BIG RON Documentary

razmond - You are talking out of your arse. The MOBO's does not exclude white artists, in fact many of the winners are white. Justin Timberlake and Christina Aguilera cleaned up the other year.

The MOBO's was started because black music was largely ignored by the the Brits and other mainstream music awards.

--- Post edited by Cheeky_Chops on 14/12 12:08 ---

Chutney Posted on 14/12 12:05
re: BIG RON Documentary

Did RAZ just exclude blues from "black music" just then?

forza_boro Posted on 14/12 12:06
re: BIG RON Documentary

The most telling thing for me was when he was on the radio n the US and the US DJ said you said fing and ron was sraight on he attack (even though he was wrong) i never swore, this showed to me that ron was more ashamed of what people would think of him if then thought he used the F word than the n one.

I think big ron is ashamed people heard him use it and is sorry for that genuinely sorry but sadly i still think he doesnt realise that it was the fact that this word even entered his head that is Key not that he used it on air.

I don't think ron understands this point.

speckyget Posted on 14/12 12:06
re: BIG RON Documentary

I didn't say I liked any of that stuff, in fact most rap sucks in my view, but I'd argue that after years of suppressing or ignoring the black voice they have a right to make it a distinctive sound now. It was slightly pathetic seeing all those old fogies on that show last night, wringing their hands about how 'unfair' it's all become.

WilmslowRed Posted on 14/12 12:08
re: BIG RON Documentary

Always find it amusing that people suddenly decide that they have immaculate anti-racism credentials and their top priority is to see the MOBO's be abolished.

Music of Black Origin, not Music By Black Artists, there is a subtle difference........

Cheeses_Christ Posted on 14/12 12:08
re: BIG RON Documentary

Here we go again, every fcukin' year without fail Razmond manages to mention the MOBO's


--- Post edited by Cheeses_Christ on 14/12 12:09 ---

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 14/12 12:09
re: BIG RON Documentary

ha ha I knew someone would mention Justin Timberlake and his classic black music. He won one award (it is a popularity award my friend). Imagine if he had not one anything, when he was winning everything else at every other award show that year.

How racist would that have looked?

When did the MOBO's start because I have not seen black music ignored?

I ask again where are the Blues bands?

and the rock n roll bands?

Music Of Black Origin my arsse!!

silly_sod Posted on 14/12 12:09
re: BIG RON Documentary

The MOBOs don't exclude white acts.

MOBO stands for music of black origin - the origins it refers to belong to the musical forms NOT those who perform it. The awards were set up to cater for a specialist musical genre not normally catered for by the more mainstream awards in just the same way rock, house, folk et al have their own ceremonies.

Piquet2 Posted on 14/12 12:09
re: BIG RON Documentary

But to some people it's just black or white Wilms, they don't do subtlety.

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 14/12 12:10
re: BIG RON Documentary

WilmslowRed - ffs rock originates from black origin!!

--- Post edited by RAZMOND_HWDR on 14/12 12:12 ---

silly_sod Posted on 14/12 12:12
re: BIG RON Documentary

You seem to have a problem with the MOBOs for some reason Raz - do you have a similar problem with the Kerrang awards? Or maybe with the NME Brats? Most of those award winners are white and the musical forms are primarily played by white people - are those awards racist too?

Chutney Posted on 14/12 12:14
re: BIG RON Documentary

Having so viciously hounded out Lord David this year (pat on the back to us), I'm wondering if the bullying clique should be adjusting their radar...

standards Posted on 14/12 12:15
re: BIG RON Documentary

He came across to me as a big bloke who for years has earned vast amounts of money for doing little. He said what he said and its caused upset, he just seemed to me like he wanted to go opposite to any normal persons path and walk back into the field of TV money and great plenty. I think he should accept he is nothing special, just an ex football Manager and TV pundit who got his job wrong and got sacked, he should work out how best to sell the Lion heads on his gateposts on ebay, either that or write a book.

zaphod Posted on 14/12 12:17
re: BIG RON Documentary

Perhaps RAZ would also like to attack those Welsh Eisteddfods that aim to promote Welsh culture. Surely that must be racist, too?

standards Posted on 14/12 12:19
re: BIG RON Documentary



im twiddling my little fingers for Big Ron, its the worlds smallest violin playing just for him


RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 14/12 12:22
re: BIG RON Documentary

'Most of those award winners are white and the musical forms are primarily played by white people '

is that correct or just a guess?

za what have the welsh got to do with anything?

bodmass Posted on 14/12 12:27
re: BIG RON Documentary

Gillandi, thanks for the reply. Can I say if I held dinner parties (which I don't) or was just in company of new friends. I would be very careful about what I said until I got to know them better. Not just if they were black but if they were fat, bald, ginger what ever. I agree with you when you say 'With familiarity, you may all have a laugh about your differences'. However if Ron had called another player a thick, lazy, Geordie or Scouser would he have been kicked of the TV ?

'unless you'd lived for years yourself in the Africas or Indies then your guests can be fairly sure that you, a white man in a historically white country has never had a problem with racist abuse. Nor will you ever have been hindered by racist landlords, employers or police officers etc.'

Actually I have suffered prejudice. I've been called a Northern Monkey, I've been laughed at when I've told people I'm from Middlesbrough. When I worked on the rigs I've been called an English B**tard by a prominently Scottish workforce. In my experience the way to overcome such prejudice is to go and earn a persons respect. At no point did I ever think about complaining or try to get someone sacked and blacklisted. Because that way you create wider divisions and lose even more respect. I'd rather show my detractors I was above their abuse, carry on, do a good job and leave them looking foolish.

silly_sod Posted on 14/12 12:41
re: BIG RON Documentary

"'Most of those award winners are white and the musical forms are primarily played by white people '

is that correct or just a guess?"

That's correct.

Metal and indie bands are almost exclusively white. I know there are a few honourable exceptions before you go to the trouble of naming any because of course I'll only dismiss them as meaningless just as you did with Justin Timberlake.

Cheeky_Chops Posted on 14/12 12:43
re: BIG RON Documentary

If the MOBO's are racist then so are the Country music awards.

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 14/12 12:47
re: BIG RON Documentary

'Metal and indie bands are almost exclusively white'

Is that Kerrrangs and NME's fault or the music industries fault?

MOBO have left out rock because they do not want to be taken over by white people singing black music. And that is racist!

silly_sod Posted on 14/12 12:53
re: BIG RON Documentary

No the MOBOs have left out rock music because it has no relevance to the primarily black music scene which they represent not because they have any objection to white performers.

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 14/12 12:56
re: BIG RON Documentary

rock originates from black music along with jazz and blues.

Are you saying that rock is NOT music of black origin?

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 14/12 12:57
re: BIG RON Documentary

'primarily black music scene which they represent '

What is this 'scene'?

Do you class Jazz as part of this scene?

silly_sod Posted on 14/12 13:02
re: BIG RON Documentary

Even if you were to accept that rock music is purely derived from a "black" rhythm and blues root (and thereby ignore the huge influence of hillbilly, cajun and country music in its sound) rock music as it exists now is so far removed from those roots that, yes, it is fair to say it can no longer be described as being of black origin.

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 14/12 13:05
re: BIG RON Documentary

oh shut up.

It does not matter what it sounds like now, it still originated from black music!!

Humans originated from monkeys, but we don`t all look like monkeys, yet we still originated from them.

silly_sod Posted on 14/12 13:06
re: BIG RON Documentary

Raz do you have a particular problem with clumsy nomenclature or do you really think that having an award for a particular musical style that is primarily made by young, urban, black people?

Perhaps you'd prefer it if they were called the "Rap, RnB, Garage, DnB, Soul, Gospel and Related Musical Styles Played by people of any colour Awards"

Cheeky_Chops Posted on 14/12 13:06
re: BIG RON Documentary

Martin Keown looks like a monkey

blotonthelandscape Posted on 14/12 13:09
re: BIG RON Documentary

Silly_Sod it is that type of pedantic argument that debases the inti racism.

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 14/12 13:11
re: BIG RON Documentary

Do th MOBO's award for Gospel Music then?

towz Posted on 14/12 13:12
re: BIG RON Documentary

Raz, do you genuinely believe what you post or do you just like arguing? You seem very hung up about the MOBO's as well.

the_thread_needler Posted on 14/12 13:12
re: BIG RON Documentary

"In my experience the way to overcome such prejudice is to go and earn a persons respect.... I'd rather show my detractors I was above their abuse, carry on, do a good job and leave them looking foolish."

spot on that bodmass. That's what Ron's bosses did by sacking him.

silly_sod Posted on 14/12 13:16
re: BIG RON Documentary

"Silly_Sod it is that type of pedantic argument that debases the inti racism"

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

I'm not being pedantic, personally I couldn't care less what they call the MOBO awards. It's Raz who seems to have a problem with the use of the word black and I'd say it's him who's being pedantic in insisting that modern rock music can be described as being of black origin.

Raz - I don't honestly know whether they have a gospel award in the MOBOs and I don't honestly care.

FwenchFwank Posted on 14/12 13:19
re: BIG RON Documentary

Ron didn't get sacked, he resigned.

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 14/12 13:20
re: BIG RON Documentary

'"Silly_Sod it is that type of pedantic argument that debases the inti racism"

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.'

You don`t care about the subject in matter yet you will argue a case for arguments sake!!

Go away and read up on the history of Rock n Roll you fool!!

The Rolling Stones deserve a MOBO !!

WilmslowRed Posted on 14/12 13:21
re: BIG RON Documentary

So MOBO awards are OK as long as white people get them ?

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 14/12 13:23
re: BIG RON Documentary

MOBO awards are ok when they represent ALL music of black origin.

silly_sod Posted on 14/12 13:26
re: BIG RON Documentary

Maybe if the MOBO awards had been around in the early 60s when the Stones were playing music which recognisably showed those rhythm n blues roots they would have won one.

Now though they should accept the bus pass and the pension and let people who are more in touch with the modern world take the stage and Ron Atkinson would be well advised to do the same.

NICKODENSEKIDDO Posted on 14/12 13:27
re: BIG RON Documentary

"Ron didn't get sacked, he resigned"

With a hefty push no doubt.

Would a man that arrogant, clueless and well paid do the honourable thing and willingly resign?

That programme showed he still doesn't have a clue what the root cause of all the fuss is so I doubt very much that he voluntarily fell on his sword.

His TV bosses were just being kind to the old fool and saving what little face he had left (plus, avoiding the potential PR disaster for themselves had the public opinion about Ron's remarks gone the other way)

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 14/12 13:28
re: BIG RON Documentary

Are you saying that Anybody Seen My Baby? is not a classic rnb stones track just because they are old?

joseph2001 Posted on 14/12 13:32
re: BIG RON Documentary

i didnt feel the programe cleared anything up at all, ron imo came across as a very confused angry bitter man and darcus howe as a nasty vindictive knob,do you have to be christian to forgive?
the world would be a sad place if all people had his attitude.
at the end of the programe i was left asking myself a question......

why was there no interview with marcel desailly?

FwenchFwank Posted on 14/12 13:41
re: BIG RON Documentary

joseph2001, you've picked up on a point I'd forgotten about there. What was darcus howe on about when he said he doesn't forgive people because he's not a Christian? I'm not a Christian but I think it's important that people are allowed to be forgiven for certain actions they have taken.

billeeee Posted on 14/12 13:44
re: BIG RON Documentary

Hang on ....this thread was about the Documentary!
As far as I can see, nobody's mentioned the rubbish Ron spouted at the end about him listening to the other summarises and realisisng that HE was actually quite good!!!......and better at the job than them!!!!

LIke WHO??

I used to turn the sound off and listen to the Radio when Ron was on.....he spouted utter rubbish!!

For example...I remember a game where a striker hit a shot from 35yards. It hit a defender 3yards away and ballooned away for a corner. Ron reckoned the keeper would never have stopped it!!
How the hell could he know where the ball was going??

The only pundit he's better than is John Barnes. Is that racist??

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 14/12 13:46
re: BIG RON Documentary

Ron Atkinson was a great commentator with a very unique footballing vocab (that was not me trying to be racist).

FwenchFwank Posted on 14/12 13:47
re: BIG RON Documentary

you're right billeeee, he is a rotten commentator, in places embarrasing. His inability to pronounce Sampdoria correctly always used to p_iss me off. Samp-a-doria is how he used to say it.

FwenchFwank Posted on 14/12 13:48
re: BIG RON Documentary

What was the reference to lollipops they kept referring to? When does he use that and what for??

forza_boro Posted on 14/12 13:49
re: BIG RON Documentary

Lollipop is a step over in ron's world

FwenchFwank Posted on 14/12 13:50
re: BIG RON Documentary

A step over = lollipop, EH??? Can you explain that one?

NICKODENSEKIDDO Posted on 14/12 13:51
re: BIG RON Documentary

Speaking of saying things wrong, anyone know the correct pronounciation of the Bernabeau (or the proper spelling for that matter!)
I always thought it ended in 'bow' as in 'stand up and take a...' but since that bomb threat all the news presenters say 'Bay-oo'
Surely the likes of the BBC should be employeeing people who speak proper.

billeeee Posted on 14/12 13:52
re: BIG RON Documentary

I think the Lollipop was a bit of a stepover.
He once described a going past another to the byline with the words "A lollipop and a Surge"....class.
The only thing his comments were good for was to keep humorous websites going!

FwenchFwank Posted on 14/12 13:53
re: BIG RON Documentary

Is that bow as in bow tie or take a bow? Bay-oo is wrong for sure.

forza_boro Posted on 14/12 13:59
re: BIG RON Documentary

A step over = lollipop, EH??? Can you explain that one?


Nedkat Posted on 14/12 14:31
re: BIG RON Documentary

Equality is one of them words that are so huge as to be barely distinguishable. How can we all live in a world where everyone is considered equal ? It's impossible, when life has so many different values and morals depending on where you live. The racial differences will never go away, the sinned against get their twopenneths worth, and the sinners feel themselves vindicated by that. We've got the NAACP, the UNCF, the colleges set aside for black students, Miss Black America, and now we've got the MOBO professing to have invented every source of music since we were all banging on drums and living in caves. What would the African American's say if we had a fund for white children to attend college, how would they react to the Miss White America pageant ?
The guilt felt by the American public which resulted from years of racism and segregation, is fuelling a generation of people who beleive the world owes them a living before they even begin to earn one. Some of these people still feel a sense of responsibility to those poor men, women and children who were placed into slavery.
The Government run immigration of people into Great Britain was accepted as a good plan to offload the less attractive jobs onto the backs of the West Indians and Pakistanis. This caused problems because the human being is basically a tribal animal, if one clan sees another clan moving in on their women/food/lands, then there's gonna be trouble !! The trouble happened, and is still happening today. Oh, yes - we've come a long way since the race riots, but there's still an awful long journey ahead before any whisps of the lights of true equality can pierce through the darkness that is racism.

Oh, and BTW .. Ron Atkinson made a big mistake saying what he said. He should accept that, take it on the chin and get on with it. Malcom Allison used the F word on the radio during an exciting moment whist watching a game. He apologised, walked away and did not moan about the decisions made. Big Ron needs to do the same thing.

smalltime Posted on 14/12 14:58
re: BIG RON Documentary

Didn't Malcolm Allison get a second chance? I'm sue he got suspended and taken back only to swear again when Pears let one through his legs against Newcastle.

steve_gibson Posted on 14/12 15:07
re: BIG RON Documentary

That was exactly my point Nedkat.

Black music is well represented on Radio 1. So why do we need R1 Extra for Black Only music. Why did the BBC not create Radio 1 Extra 2 for white only music. Why? Because the PC brigade would be up in arms.

I believe in equality but the way things are going it is the whites who are now being dicriminated against. Or it soon will be.

speckyget Posted on 14/12 15:08
re: BIG RON Documentary

Ned, they did have a Miss White America pageant. For convenience, they called it the Miss America pageant.

Nedkat Posted on 14/12 15:11
re: BIG RON Documentary

We need to forget all about the "black and white" problem. Let's all say we're all GREEN ... OK ?

Right then, light greens to the back, dark greens to the front !!

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 14/12 15:13
re: BIG RON Documentary





Green Goblin.

silly_sod Posted on 14/12 16:12
re: BIG RON Documentary

"Black music is well represented on Radio 1. So why do we need R1 Extra for Black Only music. Why did the BBC not create Radio 1 Extra 2 for white only music"

You could argue that Radios 2,3 and 6 fulfil that role.

You're getting hung up on the MOBOs and 1Xtra as being black only - they're not, calling the music as black is just a simple catch-all term for a range of musical styles made and enjoyed by people of all races. It's not my personal favourite but I don't see why it's objectionable that it has a specialist station the same as many other genres.

bobmcnob Posted on 14/12 16:55
re: BIG RON Documentary

"..Malcom Allison used the F word on the radio during an exciting moment whist watching a game. He apologised, walked away and did not moan about the decisions made.."

Big Mal used to swear on air all the time. They thought it was because he didn't realise his mic was on so they gave him a modified cough button, which he had to press it to go live.

So what he did was sit on the button, so that he was on all the time and just continue to swear to the region at large.

One sacking later, hello Bernie.

Pauleta_22 Posted on 14/12 18:31
re: BIG RON Documentary

as far as I am concerned whether he is racist or not is irrelevant, he is in the public domain and he said what he did. Sorry no sympathy, big ron can fcuk off

steve_gibson Posted on 14/12 18:58
re: BIG RON Documentary

shame Big Mal didn't know how to use his modified cough button. Hi might be on the leg ends instead of Bernie. He would tell SuperAlc to fook right off instead of Bernie beating about the bush. Big Mal would have pulled the bush out by its roots and beat Malc around the head with it.

forza_boro Posted on 14/12 19:01
re: BIG RON Documentary

Best mal quote was v man utd away the ref i think hadn't given us a pen and mal replies well what do you expect he's a catholic, fantastic the most un PC quote ever.

Yes get big mal on the legends

does he still live in yarm?

ST0CK0 Posted on 14/12 21:58
re: BIG RON Documentary

If Ron Atkinson is a Racist, then I guess quite a lot of the people on this board are racist too.

albo87 Posted on 14/12 22:49
re: BIG RON Documentary

steve_gibson, I'd like to reply to your point "Black music is well represented on Radio 1. So why do we need R1 Extra for Black Only music. Why did the BBC not create Radio 1 Extra 2 for white only music. Why? Because the PC brigade would be up in arms."

The short answer is that you are talking out of your ars. But I suppose I'd better justify that.

There are no black only radio stations, nor are there any white only stations. There are now stations that concentrate on the musical genres that originated, or are associated with black cultures. They get categorised as 'black music', but are not exclusively black at all. I'm not into stuff from the last 10 years but older examples of white people playing what can be categorised as 'black music' are the Clash (later stuff) and UB40 (some band members). See? Black music but nothing to do with skin colour.

There are also masses of 'white only' stations. They don't get called as such, but it's the same idea. They don't exclude blacks, but they cover music that originated or was predominant in white cultures, e.g. rock, pop, classical. The reason they don't get called 'white' is because it doesn't define it well enough. In our society, whites are the big majority, and have historically been so dominant.

So this 'PC Brigade' that you talk about hasn't been up in arms about white only stations at all. But whatever brigade you belong to (is it the anti-PC brigade?) seems to be up in arms as soon as a radio station with the word 'black' in it is formed.

The worst part about your whole argument is that music sets so many good examples of challenging racism and breaking down barriers. Since the late 70s, it's become ok for white people to be into reggae, soul and then later hip hop, etc, and ok for black people to be into rock and pop. It's ok to be an all black band, an all white band or a multiracial band. It's ok for white performers to be idolised by black kids and vice versa. In its cack-handed way, it's this culture that Radio 1 is trying to reflect. A black music station doesn't do you or white people in general any harm at all. If it's our thing, it adds to our enjoyment of music.

If, as you say, you really believe in equality, then target your anger at those who really attack equality - open racists and fascists, and not the 'PC Brigade', which is an invention used to mock other decent people who, like you, believe in equality and are prepared to open their mouths and say something about it.

And I had so much to say about Ron Atkinson.

speckyget Posted on 14/12 22:57
re: BIG RON Documentary

Splendid work albo. My advice - print it out on kitchen roll and place between head and wall.

But really, top post.

Gillandi Posted on 14/12 23:02
re: BIG RON Documentary

Indeed. Good spit Albz.

steve_gibson Posted on 14/12 23:42
re: BIG RON Documentary

further to speckygets post I would say better advice is to print your post out, tear it into 6" squares and hang next to the toilet. The fact you dont agree with me does not mean I am talking out of my Ars as you put it. I have a view and its as valid as yours and you are no more qualified than me to discredit it.
The fact is the examples I used i.e the MOBOs and Radio 1 Extra both use the term Black and hence discriminate against white (yes I will allow for the fact the MOBOs refer to Black origin. You say there are no white only stations and black only stations. I have never seen or heard of any stations promoting and playing white only music. So why does there need to be a radio station dedicated to black music ie 1 Extra.

I also agree that modern music allow barriers to be broken down as you suggest. So why put them back up by saying a radio station is for Black music.

Also for you to say that Rock is a white only genre is quite false as one of the greatest 'rock' guitarists was non other than Jimi Hendrix. Yes he has influences from many other styles but in essence he was a rock singer/guitarist.

Before you label me as racist, as I am sure you already think I am, I was merely putting an argument forward suggesting that in some people eyes the pendulum of equality may have started to swing the other way, and music is one of these. If something is labled as white only its racist but label it as black, well thats OK.

If you think I am racist thats fine by me. I am not about to share my life story and family history with a stranger to prove myself other wise because I dont have to.

albo87 Posted on 15/12 0:20
re: BIG RON Documentary

You are wrong, steve-gibson, I didn't label you a racist. Quite the opposite - please check my post. I was critical of your attack on this mythical 'PC Brigade', which the press use to attack people who are anti-racist.

Your example about Jimi Hendrix was excellent. Mind you, I would say that - it made exactly the same point I was making!

I didn't say rock is a white only genre. You introduced the word 'only' after black or white. I don't see it like that.

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 15/12 9:17
re: BIG RON Documentary

albo87 was saying that rock originated from a white background - which is of course totally wrong, just ask Elvis who influenced his rock music (mind that might be difficult as he is dead)!!

steve_gibson Posted on 15/12 10:07
re: BIG RON Documentary

fair enough albo, I maybe did misquote you regarding you stating rock was a white only genre.

I am not about to start targetting people such as the BPN and other groups as they have a right to their views, and wether I think they are right or wrong I can listen and make my own judgement and then choose to ignore them. They do not have a right to making their views known through violence and intimidation hence the arrests this week.

The point I was making that if we are to truly have a multicultural society why should be need black this and white that as this reintroduces divides.

I wont begin to bore everyone with my views on the PC brigade, but if any council tries to stop me hanging a St Georges cross from my house during the world cup, or from sending a christmas card with a natvity scene on (not that I do anyway but might in future) for fear of offending someone they will have a fight on their hands.

For some reason when I tried to post this It came back with a bad language error. The only thing I could think of was B*P which I changed to BPN and it allowed the post. What sort of censorship are rivals running.

--- Post edited by steve_gibson on 15/12 10:09 ---

--- Post edited by steve_gibson on 15/12 10:15 ---

albo87 Posted on 15/12 11:00
re: BIG RON Documentary

Razmond, I said " that originated or was predominant in white cultures, e.g. rock, pop, classical."

I know, steve-gibson, I'm not happy with the censorship on here or elsewhere either. I don't mind when the B.N.P.(I think that's another way!) crawl from under their stones and show themselves up for the fascists that they really are. It turns most people's stomachs straight away, and there are usually enough people to stand up to their nonsense.

Your paragraph about the PC Brigade was all hypothetical. Noone, I mean noone, is talking about banning such things to be 'PC'. It's a press fabrication, just like stories about the PC Brigade wanting to ban Santa, Christmas lights, the words 'whitewash' and 'blackmail', etc, etc.

All bollox. The press' desired effect is to ridicule and create resentment against anyone who speaks out against genuine discrimination.

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 15/12 11:07
re: BIG RON Documentary

'or was predominant in white cultures'

do you know this to be fact then in the case of rock??

or are you talking rubbish?

red_rebel Posted on 15/12 11:13
re: BIG RON Documentary

No council has ever banned anyone from doing any of the things you say. It is a complete and utter fabrication.

One council ordered one person to take down a massive flagpole because it did not have planning permission and there had been a complaint from a neighbour.

Another ordered a taxi driver to take a massive flag from his rear window becuase it hindered vision and so rendered the vehicle dangerous and in breach of its licence.

Then the Mail worked themselves up into a mastabatory frenzy over some mythical attack on 'Englishness' and suddenly everyone accepts these politically motivated smears as truth.

Were there flags in your street during the World Cup? Did any council staff try to haul them down? Do you know anyone who had their car impounded for flying the Cross of St George?

These debates - Ron Atkinson is a subject that can raise a lot of related issues - are constantly dragged into a spiral of stupidity by people who regurgitate these flimsy media lies and denounce anyone who stands against them as 'the PC Brigade'.

silly_sod Posted on 15/12 11:18
re: BIG RON Documentary

For those who claim that rock isn't primarily white I challenge you to name me 10 black rock acts.

Not rock and roll singers from the 50s and 60s but rock as it's known today.

I'll be amazed if you can make it to 5.

albo87 Posted on 15/12 11:19
re: BIG RON Documentary

I might be talking rubbish, Razmond. My memory may be playing tricks, but I'd got the impression that rock music has been one of the most popular (i.e. predominant) music genres among white people (both as performers and fans), especially in the USA and Europe over the last few decades.

That's not to say rock excluded blacks (as performers or fans) - I made my views on that clear in my earlier post.

What exactly is your point, Razmond? I'd like to be put right if you know something I don't.

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 15/12 11:26
re: BIG RON Documentary

Lenny Kravitz



Kermit - Black Grape

Leroy and tuther one - The Prodigy

Wrennie - Stone Roses

Stevie Wonder

this is fun...

Terence Trent Darby (INXS Frontman)

--- Post edited by RAZMOND_HWDR on 15/12 11:30 ---

silly_sod Posted on 15/12 11:30
re: BIG RON Documentary

So in 40 years of rock history you've managed to find 3 solo artists, 4 band members (2 in bands which were predominantly white and 1 who's name you don't know) and Stevie Wonder who can't really be called a rock act if you're being honest now can he.

You didn't make it to 10.

I think my point is proven.

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 15/12 11:33
re: BIG RON Documentary

find???? I did not even look.

Give us a chance.

The lead singer from Audioweb - Martin Merchant

Talvin Singh

Asian Dub Foundation

--- Post edited by RAZMOND_HWDR on 15/12 11:35 ---

--- Post edited by RAZMOND_HWDR on 15/12 11:38 ---

FwenchFwank Posted on 15/12 11:34
re: BIG RON Documentary

Hold on a second silly_sod, initially you said atrists from the 50's and 60's couldn't be named an then you say "So in 40 years of rock history you've managed to find 3 solo artists" Make your mind up!!

I'm sure it will be easy to get a fair old list of artists. Here's one for what it's worth Phil Lynott

--- Post edited by FwenchFwank on 15/12 11:36 ---

silly_sod Posted on 15/12 11:41
re: BIG RON Documentary

I did actually specify not old rock n rollers but fair point on the 60s thing but I allowed Hendrix anyhow.

Try the same exercise with white rock artists now - bit easier isn't it?

--- Post edited by silly_sod on 15/12 11:43 ---

FwenchFwank Posted on 15/12 11:43
re: BIG RON Documentary

Slash - Guns N Rose
Skin - SkunkanNancy

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 15/12 11:44
re: BIG RON Documentary


Echobelly lead singer.

--- Post edited by RAZMOND_HWDR on 15/12 11:48 ---

albo87 Posted on 15/12 12:05
re: BIG RON Documentary

I think you've got accept Razmond's response has been pretty good, silly_sod.

But now Razmond, for 32000, can you answer my question? What exactly was your point against me? No asking the audience.

silly_sod Posted on 15/12 12:10
re: BIG RON Documentary

He's managed to find 10 it's true so hat's off for that but the fact that it's taken him 30 minutes, some of them are marginal to say the least and others are so well known that he doesn't actually know their names proves my point.

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 15/12 12:13
re: BIG RON Documentary

Rock stars awarded urban acclaim

By Ian Youngs
BBC News Online entertainment staff

RandB duo Floetry are up for three Urban Music Awards
Rock and jazz stars are to be embraced by the urban music scene through two new awards at an urban music ceremony.
The urban scene, associated with rappers and RandB singers, has previously been a world away from that of mainly white guitar-wielding rock bands.

But now rock and jazz categories have been added for the second year of the Urban Music Awards, held in November.

RandB duo Floetry lead the nominations with three while Jamie Cullum is up for two awards including best jazz act.

The full nominations will be revealed on Thursday and are supposed to represent all urban and underground artists, according to organisers.

The inclusion of rock and jazz received a lukewarm welcome from the urban music press.

Jazz was probably the first urban genre that ever existed and is still a major influence in rap and neo-soul

Simon Das
Touch magazine
"Does the inclusion of these genres make a difference? Not really, it just adds to the colourful spectrum that is contemporary music in the 21st century," according to Toussaint Davy, editor of Tense magazine.

He said the industry had changed radically in the last five years so most genres now included at least a bit of everything else.

Simon Das, editor of Touch magazine, said he was not surprised at the changes.

"Urban music today isn't necessarily defined by a specific genre, like rap, rock or garage - it's about a shared set of cultural ethics," he said.

Lifetime achievement

"It's about a reverence to cultural movements like hip-hop, which was in itself a construct of sixties RandB, rock 'n' roll and seventies disco."

Jazz was "probably the first urban genre that ever existed", he added.

Meanwhile, Mercury-nominated rapper Ty has two nominations and singer Beverley Knight will get a lifetime achievement award.

The awards, run by Invincible magazine, include categories for best hip-hop act, best RandB act, best house DJ as well as best world music act and best crossover chart act.

The ceremony, to be held on 9 November at London's Barbican, will be hosted by former EastEnders actors Gary Beadle and Michelle Gayle.

Link: Rock stars awarded urban acclaim

steve_gibson Posted on 15/12 14:38
re: BIG RON Documentary

dont forget Bodycount. Ice T's rock band. They did an excellent cover of Jimi's hey Joe on one of their albums. Born Dead if I remember rightly.

DavyT Posted on 15/12 14:50
re: BIG RON Documentary

"Slash - Guns N Rose"

he is white

Link: quick google search picture :P

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 15/12 14:52
re: BIG RON Documentary

slash looks half-cast so does he still count?

steve_gibson Posted on 15/12 15:03
re: BIG RON Documentary

Slash's mother was an african american and father was english

Link: Slash