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Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 10:34
Outed

SASboro and Boromaverick are geordies. Don't take any notice of their poisoned posts.

Come on Boro, the UEFA cup is still a possibility.

boroboy75 Posted on 23/3 10:35
re: Outed

No it isn't.
We got knocked out last Thursday night.

Big_Shot Posted on 23/3 10:37
re: Outed

Sas isn't, just ignore him though.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 10:38
re: Outed

Does that mean we're never allowed to qualify for it again?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 10:39
re: Outed

Sas isn't, just ignore him though.

I wish he was though, then I could fill him in without feeling guilty.

boro_Maverick Posted on 23/3 11:02
re: Outed

What a complete öhit eater, I was born in Parkside hotel, I went to my first boro game when I was 4 and have had a season ticket since the 80's. Yet because I don't like Smac I am a geordie? What a pri))ck!

boro_Maverick Posted on 23/3 11:04
re: Outed

What the hell the uefa cup is a possibility? You're clearly a geordie yourself, do one skunk! Donít you have ten bottles of brown ale to drink and a wife to beat?

--- Post edited by boro_Maverick on 23/3 11:04 ---

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 11:19
re: Outed

So you've just admitted you don't like smac. Nothing to do with his achievements, you just don't like him. Well that's all good and well but do you have to come on here and moan and moan about how much you hate him. It doesn't do the club any good and is not what I call support, the man is doing a very good job. He took over a bottom 4 side and won us a trophy, got us into Europe and made us the top side in the North East. Ok we've had a few crap games but we've had a shed load of injuries. Put your personal vendetta to one side and get behind the club. The man deserves time and if we haven't made any progress next year then you will have a case.

So you think I'm a Geordie because I believe we can qualify for next seasons UEFA cup. I think you nee to check the dictionary and see what the word support means, hang on I'll do it for you.

Support - to agree with and give encouragement to someone or something because you want them to succeed:

Try it, you might like it.

sasboro Posted on 23/3 11:26
re: Outed

lisbonlegends, do ytou still want to fill me in even though i'm not a geordie?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 11:35
re: Outed

No, but stop your personal vendetta against mclaren. He gets on my nerves aswell sometimes with his crap tactics and shuffling of formations but overall he has done a great job and without these injuries we would be standing tall and laughing at the geordies languishing in the table.

We have to finish above the geordies at the least, that in itself will make it a brilliant season. I for one am going to do all I can to support the team in these last 8 games. I suggest you put your Mac hatred to one side for 2 months and do the same. Then we can discuss Macs merits at the end of the season. Good or bad.

toots Posted on 23/3 11:38
re: Outed

he's right. i dont understand how people cant see this, n seem determined to drag us back down the first division, having our club established in the premier league is just about the best thing this town has, will be such a sad thing to lose it.

sasboro Posted on 23/3 11:41
re: Outed

i dont have a personal vendetta against mcclaren. i have never said sack him or had a go at him personally. it is always purely his managerial side and i just point out some of his stats which dont look so good.

boro_Maverick Posted on 23/3 11:41
re: Outed

Do you really think we will finish above the skunks? I can't see it and I am tired of the excuses, he is taking our club backwards after early signs of promise.
I don't hate the guy, he didn't mug my grandmother, I am just convinced he is the wrong guy for this club and he has no passion for our team.

What do you think happens they players play worse because I say I donít like smac? Get your head in gear.

toots Posted on 23/3 11:53
re: Outed

of course individuals waffling on on here dont make a difference in themselves, but i reckon it all contributes to the poisonous atmosphere at the ground these days, n there's no doubt in my mind that that affects the game. its bloody horrible, they're only a few yards away from you, they can hear the hatred. why would they even want to bother, specially if they can move on to another club where people get behind them.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 11:58
re: Outed

Yes I do believe we can finish above the scum. We have a better team but they have a better squad. If we can get some of our injured players back then we will do it. They also have the distraction of 2 cups and when they get knocked out of those the sudden destruction of their smugness will cause them to plummet.

Excuses? Losing your best players and the spine of your team is not an excuse. It's reality. We don't have a squad capable of coping with that amount of injuries. It takes time to build a sizable squad of quality, probably 5 years plus. The manager and the players are doing their best to try and overcome this but the team we have out at the moment is simply not good enough. Any sane person can see this.

No passion for our team? Can you not see him on the sideline, shouting, getting annoyed when we're crap, fighting with Moyes. It's a breath of fresh air compared to Robbo who just stood there with Viv whilst we lost game after game.

No, I don't believe that the players play worse because of your moaning. What I do believe though is that the rubbish you spout, plus the rubbish on the 3 legends is like an epidemic. People forget about the full facts of the situation and just start to moan. I've seen it all around me over the last few weeks at the riverside and it's disgraceful. People have short memories. I happen to play the game to a very decent level myself so know the realities of football and that it's not as straightforward as the less intelligent supporter appears to believe.

So if you believe that Mac is not the right man for the job then I will ask you why? What should be done beter in your opinion, have you managed a team before? Or managed anyone for that matter in whatever occupation you do? Realistically what do you think Middlesbrough should have achieved in the time Mclaren has had and what are your expectations for the team. How would you have coped with the current injury crisis and lack of fit players?

It's easy to sit back smugly on your PC and claim this and that but I would like to hear a sensible argument if that's alright with you.

As for getting my head in gear, I don't know what you mean.

--- Post edited by Lisbonlegend on 23/3 12:03 ---

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 12:18
re: Outed

I can't hear you maverick. Are you not able to answer these questions? Are they too much for your brain?

What? You need a reason to moan? Who said that? I thought moaning was what you're supposed to do? I thought it was part of being a boro fan?

No it's not, have a bit of faith and positivity and swing the balance back in favour of a nice happy life.

boro_Maverick Posted on 23/3 13:18
re: Outed

I don't have time to read all that but I suggest you need a holiday you're a very tense boy.

Have I managed a football team, yes but of course not at the level smac does, but your comment is nonsensical are you suggesting anybody that hasn't managed a prem team has no right to and opinion? That makes your points well pointless no?

I am a manager not that, that is in anyway relevant,

You have this idea that you're more knowledgeable and correct in your views and that anybody else whose opinion differ is wrong. I suggest young child that you go and watch Bill Beswick's videos of Swans, it certainly more entertaining than the öhite McClaren has been producing lately.

We have not progressed time to go smac.

As for you, you're a new username so clearly another user, you're also not worth of further response with comments like you're a geordie.

Toots, I get behind the team at games, I don't sit and whine I save that for here, but I can understand the fans that do; McClaren has wasted money, he is buying players we can not sell on, and he is producing some of the worst football I have ever seen.
Time for a change, we need it, we deserve it.

McClaren has lost the players and the fans and probably the board the result is inevitable.

fatharrywhite Posted on 23/3 13:24
re: Outed

on what grounds do you think he has 'lost the players and the fans'???

The fans are still massively in favour of him staying and if you think otherwise you're deluded. As for the players, has there been anything in the press about players being unhappy?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 13:50
re: Outed

"I don't have time to read all that but I suggest you need a holiday you're a very tense boy."

So if you're not going to read my entire post then how can you come up with a valid reply? As usual not taking in the whole facts and making conclusions. Thanks for the suggestion but I've just had a lovely holiday in lisbon and am quite relaxed.

"Have I managed a football team, yes but of course not at the level smac does, but your comment is nonsensical are you suggesting anybody that hasn't managed a prem team has no right to and opinion? That makes your points well pointless no?"

No, that's not what I was suggesting, I simply asked if you had managed at any point. I was trying to assess how you came up with the opinion that Mclaren is no good for our club and whether you had any idea of the pitfalls of management. I never once said that if you haven't managed you can't have an opinion. Did I? No, I don't think I did.

"I am a manager not that, that is in anyway relevant"

Football manager on the PC or a kindergarten?

"You have this idea that you're more knowledgeable and correct in your views and that anybody else whose opinion differ is wrong. I suggest young child that you go and watch Bill Beswick's videos of Swans, it certainly more entertaining than the s**te McClaren has been producing lately."

No, I don't. I agree with a lot of things that people say and am quite willing to be persuaded that an opinion may be superior to mine but that is usually based on facts and reason rather than the obvious dislike of a person. Young child? Well let's see how much of a slapping you can take from this young child. Hmmm....What are these videos of swans you're talking about? Sh**e that Mclaren is producing? That's probably the most bigoted and vitriolic viewpoint I've ever had the misfortune to hear from a Middlesbrough fan.

"We have not progressed time to go smac."

Explain this sentence please.

"As for you, you're a new username so clearly another user, you're also not worth of further response with comments like you're a geordie."

So you're claiming that because I have a new username I'm not entitled to a viewpoint or your viewpoint is superior to mine? Clearly another user? Clearly not.

"Toots, I get behind the team at games, I don't sit and whine I save that for here, but I can understand the fans that do; McClaren has wasted money, he is buying players we can not sell on, and he is producing some of the worst football I have ever seen."

I believe you not. You spend all your time slavering that Mclaren has to go. Wasting money? Hmmmm.....Name me which players he has wasted money on and name me a manager that hasn't wasted money.


"Time for a change, we need it, we deserve it."

"We"? Don't think that I'm the same as you, I happened to have the well being of my football club at heart rather than the hatred of the manager. What we need is some of our injured players back, that's what we need. If you deserve a change then go and watch Hartlepool or Sunderland.

"McClaren has lost the players and the fans and probably the board the result is inevitable"

Explain please. He certainly hasn't lost me and the only players I believe he's lost is due to injury. And we don't actually have a board so you've just proved beyond doubt that your knowledge of Middlesbrough football club is next to nothing.

boro_Maverick Posted on 23/3 14:09
re: Outed

I stopped reading after the slap remark, it was quite interesting until then, but now I am not interesting in talking to a cyber warrior, don't address me again, thanks so much!

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 14:12
re: Outed

Oh dear, what a poor response. So it's ok for you to call me a child but if I take offence to this you blub like a baby.

The real reason you won't respond is because you haven't got a scooby doo and everybody knows it.

karembeu_ca Posted on 23/3 14:16
re: Outed

Mav: "I don't hate the guy, he didn't mug my grandmother"

LMAO, nice one Mav, made me laugh

Legend, there are a lot of frustrated people on here. Some feel that the ibjuries are a valid reason for the poor form, others don't - c'est la vie I guess.

Personally I am willing to take the whole 4 yrs into account, and look at the fact that we were close to 4th with a somewhat fit squad (only Ugo missing as I recall), but you can't ignore that there have still been games even the depleted team we fielded shoudl have won, or come close, and they didn't. Our form is dire and morale/confidence is low. SMACs is the ultimate responsibility, as the manager, the fine point of the argument is whether he is to BLAME. I think he is ultimately responsible, but not to blame.

And don't get personal, as much as I disagree with Gingerpig and Maverick, they are most certainly not Toon or Mackems.

boro_Maverick Posted on 23/3 14:32
re: Outed

See...I can argue I mean debate with karmebu..because he does threaten to slap me..from behind a pc.
I have no problem with the fans that support smac that is their opinion.
I have a problem with the ones who think because of their opinion they are more knowledgeable or more loyal, I am loyal to mfc not smac fc.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 14:39
re: Outed

"Legend, there are a lot of frustrated people on here. Some feel that the ibjuries are a valid reason for the poor form, others don't - c'est la vie I guess."

I'm quite willing to agree with someone's viewpoint if they make it openly and honestly backed up by facts and reason. I'm not prepared to take people who are trying to damage the future of my football club by being vitriolic towards a manager who is doing his utmost to put us into the champions league.

"Personally I am willing to take the whole 4 yrs into account, and look at the fact that we were close to 4th with a somewhat fit squad (only Ugo missing as I recall), but you can't ignore that there have still been games even the depleted team we fielded shoudl have won, or come close, and they didn't. "

Every supporter should be willing to take into account the 4 years that Mclaren has been here. The difficult job he faced when he started, getting rid of the dross and trying to move the club forward year by year. There is no quick fix. We can't become Manchester United or Chelsea overnight, it has to be a slow progression and there'll be setbacks all along the way. The snipers should understand this. Nothing will be gained by sacking mclaren now and the staff he brought in. It would be another period of rebuilding which we don't need. I agree there's games we should have won and that Mclaren has made mistakes but the current situation of fielding reserves and youth team players is not his doing so why do you get idiots harping on that we've been crap all year when the reality is that it's not Mclarens chosen team. Not once have I said that Mclaren is the best manager in the world and perfect, what I do want however is his achievements to be recognised.

"Our form is dire and morale/confidence is low. SMACs is the ultimate responsibility, as the manager, the fine point of the argument is whether he is to BLAME. I think he is ultimately responsible, but not to blame."

Our form is dire and morale is very low but surely that's when the supporters are needed most? It's not a Robson situation where the team is all 30+ and we're bottom of the table. Some people need a bit of perspective! I believe his responsibility lies in trying to get the best out of the players at his disposal at the current time and with the exception of the Southampton game I believe he has. I definitely believe he isn't to blame because what does he have to do to get his best players fit and on teh pitch? If we had 2 or 3 injuries and the results were the same then there would be a much stronger case for the Boo boys but 10 players out is crippling.

"And don't get personal, as much as I disagree with Gingerpig and Maverick, they are most certainly not Toon or Mackems."

Fair enough maybe the Geordie dig was a bit below the belt, noone wants to be called a geordie but these people are quite happy to get personal with Mclaren and I feel it is my duty to stop this poison spreading. I went to Lisbon and it was awesome and I came back to the Riverside and it was deadly. I remember when the Riverside used to be full of atmosphere and passion and an enjoyable place to come. The club has never been in a helthier state yet some people still talk out of their ars*s because we've had a difficult run. I'm as disappointed as the next person but you have to understand the circumstances and not just slag Mclaren off. How about Nemeth and Job's miss in Lisbon, or Job's sitter against Southampton, or Jimmy playing crap for months? Steve Mac appears to be an easy target.

toots Posted on 23/3 14:42
re: Outed

i agree with all you say, just about... but one point is that if you use personal insults, it works less well as you can see, because you just get peoples backs up, n then they will dig their heels in further. im glad you are here, tho. good to see it all said.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 14:50
re: Outed

"See...I can argue I mean debate with karmebu..because he does threaten to slap me..from behind a pc."

My point is, you don't debate. You just say Mclaren is crap. That's not a debate. If you have a viewpoint that back it up with valid reasons and if you can, come up with alternatives or positives to take the club forward. He does threaten to slap you?? All I said was "let's see how much of a slap you can take from this child."


"I have no problem with the fans that support smac that is their opinion.
I have a problem with the ones who think because of their opinion they are more knowledgeable or more loyal, I am loyal to mfc not smac fc."

How do you know what I am thinking. I've never said I'm more loyal or knowledgable than you. As it happens I do think that because you haven't come up with a decent argument to back up your claims yet but I'm willing to be proved wrong. That is just a smokescreen for the real issue though, the argument is not about whether I think I'm more loyal or knowledgeable, it's about the relative issues of Stevie Mac's reign.

I have a problem with people being unfairly critical of a manager who has brought us our first ever piece of silverware and taken us on our first ever European adventure. I am not a SMac supporter I am a warrior of fairness and a crusader for MFC. I have no idea how loyal you are but I will fight to the death for my club and it's best interests. If I thought sacking Mac was in the clubs best interest then I wouldn't argue with you. But it's not.

sasboro Posted on 23/3 14:52
re: Outed

boro_maverick is fishing good today

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 14:58
re: Outed

"i agree with all you say, just about... but one point is that if you use personal insults, it works less well as you can see, because you just get peoples backs up, n then they will dig their heels in further. im glad you are here, tho. good to see it all said."

Fair point Toots, I get very wound up by people not seeing the real picture and constantly moaning. It gets my back up and I just think, are these people really Middlesbrough supporters? Who wants to spend their Saturday (or Sunday) afternoons sitting there listening to people whinge on? Actually, don't answer that because a lot of people probably pay their money to have a good old whinge. It just gives our supporters a bad reputation adn gives the Geordies and Mackems a reason to take the p*ss out of us.

--- Post edited by Lisbonlegend on 23/3 14:58 ---

karembeu_ca Posted on 23/3 14:58
re: Outed

Lisbon: "Steve Mac appears to be an easy target"

Of course he is, that is the job. Like I said, he is ultimately responsible, but I still contend he is not to blame.

Managers get the stick, and usually pay the price when many times the problems are beyond their control. How many managers have been taken down by a poor chairman, badly run club, or simply by the players not getting it done? Ask any Villa or Toon fan about the first one.

"I am a warrior of fairness and a crusader for MFC"

Bit over the top perhaps - LMAO

Lads like Mav think the same way we do, that the best way forward for the club is to replace SMAC. Some take the personal thing with SMAC too far (Gingerpig?), but we all want the same thing, for the overall direction of the last 4 years to continue, not lose momentum and fall back.

--- Post edited by karembeu_ca on 23/3 14:59 ---

Scrote Posted on 23/3 15:12
re: Outed

err sas - its not fishing if its his consistently held viewpoint - even your chum wouldn't try an "i was only joking" on this one

legend - you are wasting your time mate - mav has no arguments to back up his case and just throws in the odd comment here and there to make it look like theres some substance to it

as soon as you post anything that he can't just contradict he finds some reason to not partake in the discourse any longer - the fact he has hurled his own personal insults at the least provocation in the past shows him up for what he is - pathetic

the biggest problem i have is that most of the people with opinions like mav's are of a similar ilk to him - vociferous but vacant - they know very little about football in general and have an issue with smac which all goes back to juninho

its pointless arguing with him 'cos his point of view doesn't have an argued base - it is just rhetoric

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 15:13
re: Outed

Lisbon: "Steve Mac appears to be an easy target"

[Of course he is, that is the job. Like I said, he is ultimately responsible, but I still contend he is not to blame.]

Mac is an easy target but people should see that he is not the cause of our current slump. Why not think about that rather than go for the easy target? Only people without foresight will go for teh easy target without even having anexplanation as to why they have chosen their target.

["Managers get the stick, and usually pay the price when many times the problems are beyond their control. How many managers have been taken down by a poor chairman, badly run club, or simply by the players not getting it done? Ask any Villa or Toon fan about the first one."]

Players not performing is a valid reason for a sacking but a horrendous injury list to the core of the managers team is not a sackable offence. Gibson will not sack Mclaren, he has 100% faith in his ability so as he should do so what is the point in unfairly poisoning the atmosphere when we could try and raise the performances of the players by getting behind them? I try not to talk to Toon fans.

"I am a warrior of fairness and a crusader for MFC"

[Bit over the top perhaps - LMAO]

It's true ;-)

["Lads like Mav think the same way we do, that the best way forward for the club is to replace SMAC. Some take the personal thing with SMAC too far (Gingerpig?), but we all want the same thing, for the overall direction of the last 4 years to continue, not lose momentum and fall back."]

Let Mac finish what he has started.

--- Post edited by Lisbonlegend on 23/3 15:15 ---

sasboro Posted on 23/3 15:16
re: Outed

bor_maverick aint my chum as i dont even know who he is.

16 games in 12 weeks

about 1 win in the league in 3 months

29 goals leaked in those 16 games

1.27 points per game for smac and1.21 points per games for robson

not pretty reasing is it?

even with injuries this season after 4 seasons 1.27 points per game is pretty average

karembeu_ca Posted on 23/3 15:17
re: Outed

Legend, I agree that Gibbo won't sack SMAC, at least not based on previous form.

SMAC is in year 4 of a "5 yr plan", he is pretty close to being finished. He will have to go some to meet the league goal for this season, but he exceeded the stated Euro goals.

Even not meeting the league goal though HAS to be taken into context with the extreme injuries. I know some don't feel that's a valid excuse, but I disagree.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 15:18
re: Outed

Scrote - "the biggest problem i have is that most of the people with opinions like mav's are of a similar ilk to him - vociferous but vacant - they know very little about football in general and have an issue with smac which all goes back to juninho"

You are very right Scrote. The Mac out brigade are usually lacking in basic common sense, an ability to see the actual facts and very little knowledge of the game at all. I've yet to find one that has a hint of a valid argument yet.

karembeu_ca Posted on 23/3 15:20
re: Outed

sas, the point is that we HAVE improved each season, if not by leaps and bounds. For THIS club to even go in the same direction for 4 straight years is a first. We were a yo-yo club, then lower half/relegation fight, now established mid/top half.

SMAC has taken us int eh right direction, and has met or exceeded the goals he was set by his boss, if not by some on here. I honestly don't know if he is the person to lead us to the next level, but I am willing to give him that last year to finish things. Is Gibbo? Not sure.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 15:22
re: Outed

"not pretty reasing is it?

even with injuries this season after 4 seasons 1.27 points per game is pretty average"

Average, yes it's average!!! No one is sacked for being average, what do you want SAS? What do you expect of a Middlesbrough side bearing in mind the most points we've ever had in the premiership is 52!

You have just proved your own argument wrong, Mclaren in. SAS loves Mclaren.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 15:23
re: Outed

Spot on Karambeau.

In conclusion:

The Mac out brigade have proved inconclusively that they have no basis for their argument except

a) That they simply dislike Steve Mclaren as a person, possibly for his cornbeef style cheeks and slightly balding ginger hair.

b) That they know very little about the game and even claim that Middlesbrough have a board, which may come as a surprise to Steve Gibson.

c) They disappear or change the subject when ever a question is asked as to why they feel Mclaren should be sacked.

d) They are MFC fans and not Mac fans. (you don't say).



--- Post edited by Lisbonlegend on 23/3 15:32 ---

sasboro Posted on 23/3 15:29
re: Outed

Since when have i said he should be sacked, only a few weeks ago people were saying hes a top class manager and will get snapped up by england or big clubs.. But if he's average then he wont will he.

The whole smac lovers V anti-smac stems from the smac lovers thinking smac is the best manager around and never makes mistakes. From there it as snowballed and results over the 4 years show he's not as good as somethink. and as results and form gets worse then anti-smac get louder.

You have to admit his record in the league over 4 years in pretty average. Infact it is not much better than robsons league record.

boro_Maverick Posted on 23/3 15:30
re: Outed

I tried to ignore him...but his comment nobody is fired for being average caught my eye.

What a load of crap, people at high flying companies are fired everyday for that very reason, we are saying we are one of the top 10 very best clubs in the country, we can't afford to be average.

karembeu_ca Posted on 23/3 15:32
re: Outed

no, not much better, but a general upward trend, and a decent base to move on.

I honestly think we would already be over 52 points NOW with Vids, Boateng, and Mendi, and we would still be close to the top of the injury league with them 3 back!

karembeu_ca Posted on 23/3 15:34
re: Outed

right mav, in some cases a plateau is as bad as moving backward, and you need a change to move on again, happens all the time in football.

SMAC may end up on a plateau, but I don't feel he can be accurately judged on this year given the injuries. Next year is year 5, and this off-season will be a big one. we need to either replace a few players or buy additional players.

onthemap Posted on 23/3 15:36
re: Outed

"I get very wound up by people not seeing the real picture and constantly moaning"

Thats the whole point here. Mav IS probably looking at the whole picture and has come to his conclusion as a result.
I dont know the actual figures but would imagine that the latter part of Robsons reign was fairly similar to the last 4-5 months of SMACs and would also wager that managers have been sacked with better records.
It doesnt follow that whinging about players makes them play worse - how many times to you hear them say that when the crowd gets on their back they want to do something, ie score, to shut them up , home or away.
It is also worth noting that perhaps the constant up beat remarks regardless of form, lead to people having unrealistic views prior to matchday and ultimately are more frustrated at having paid hard earned money to watch poor football.
This is the reverse of what seems to be said when people on here accuse the whingers of driving potential fans away. Both cases have some relevance.
I for one prefer the unbiased view of Slaven who is obviously a fan but does not like what he is seeing and says so.I believe that the Brownlee optimism actually does more harm than good, as described above.
This is my opinion but I am willing to accept that I am not a premier league football manager and therefore highly unlikely to be correct. I dont know but would guess that no one on here is a premier league manager and as such we are all just expressing views on our favourite pastime - nothing more.

sasboro Posted on 23/3 15:36
re: Outed

it's all theoretical that we would have more points with a full strength team..we dont know if we would have or not. FOr starters with a full fit squad morrison and downing would have limited opportunities and all those goals they have scored or chances downing created would not have happened. Reziger would have been a regular despite his poor form..etc

it's all if's and but.. if in 1997 we turned up at blackburn we would have stayed up, if only we had not conceded that goals in the league cup, if only we hadnt conceded that goal after 43 secs agaisnt chelsea,if only ugo's ahnd ball in cardiff had been given..etc

Begining of the season i said getting back into europe wil lbe very difficult, many on here thought it would be easy, some on here tipped us to win the uefa cup, people were happy for us to rest players in carling cup..now they say we have had a good season..

--- Post edited by sasboro on 23/3 15:38 ---

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 15:37
re: Outed

"Since when have i said he should be sacked, only a few weeks ago people were saying hes a top class manager and will get snapped up by england or big clubs.. But if he's average then he wont will he."

You hinted he was average from your stats, I happen to tehink he is well above average. He's a potential England manager, note the word potential, as Downing is a potential future England stalwart.

"The whole smac lovers V anti-smac stems from the smac lovers thinking smac is the best manager around and never makes mistakes. From there it as snowballed and results over the 4 years show he's not as good as somethink. and as results and form gets worse then anti-smac get louder."

What a pile of tosh. It's the Mac lovers that form the boo boys. Haha, oh you make me laugh..

"You have to admit his record in the league over 4 years in pretty average. Infact it is not much better than robsons league record."

It's ok, what I look at is whether it has improved over the time he's been here, that is what really matters and the answer to that is yes, it has.

sasboro Posted on 23/3 15:42
re: Outed

what makes him potential england material, way above managers like big sam? Is smac that much better than big sam?is mclaren head and shoulders above other english managers?

what has improved since smac took over. robson made bigger improvements form when he came to when he left.


all i'm saying is smac is not the world class manager that many seem to think. he is as good as big sam and co.

onthemap Posted on 23/3 15:44
re: Outed

Robson inherited a 1st division side and despite ups and downs turned us into premiership material.
SMAC inherited a premiership side and turned us into ??????

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 15:44
re: Outed

"I tried to ignore him...but his comment nobody is fired for being average caught my eye.

What a load of crap, people at high flying companies are fired everyday for that very reason"

Not a load of crap, average is the norm, people are usually fired for being below average and people usually promoted for being above average. You wouldn't have much of a case at an industrial tribunal if you were fired someone because they were average. It's called unfair dismissal. The statement was incorrect though, I'll give you that one.

"We are saying we are one of the top 10 very best clubs in the country, we can't afford to be average."

You still haven't stated where YOU believe we should be. We are not average, we have played in Europe and have been in the top 6 of the league for 90% of the season. This is well above average.

--- Post edited by Lisbonlegend on 23/3 15:45 ---

onthemap Posted on 23/3 15:49
re: Outed

Lisbon I think you will find that in the world of businessmen like Steve Gibson, that being average certainly does get you fired.
Packing shelves at Tesco requires you to be average or just competent - running an accountable multi million pound organistion, like MFC is something totally different.

Scrote Posted on 23/3 15:53
re: Outed

"we are one of the top 10 very best clubs in the country, we can't afford to be average"

either we are one of the top ten clubs OR we are average (which i'd put at top of first division/bottom of championship)

what we actually are is a top half of prem average - and this after playing with half the managers first choice starting eleven for a couple of months

its like accusing rutherford of being average when compared to einstein, curie, newton etc. - its only "average" in the company kept not across the board

as far as boro goes our historical position (i.e. the position we would be in if the league was averaged out every ear to give final placements) is top three of the championship - therefore i would contend that we are currently way above our own average

and sas - two points

1. "your chum" was a reference to bandito - learn how to read
2. "The whole smac lovers V anti-smac stems from the smac lovers thinking smac is the best manager around and never makes mistakes" - this is utter drivel - i've not yet seen anyone (not even briggsy) put forward the notion that smac is the best manager around - ferguson and wenger are clearly head and shoulders above anyone else in england for starters

this is just another one of those lets make a statement that we can then refer back to later as proof of our argument things and it won't wash i'm afraid

the whole pro/anti-smac thing started with the sale of juninho - the pro smac camp said they were happy to back the manager (who IMO has been proven correct in his assessment) - the anti smac camp wanted smac sacked for daring to offload tlf

to suggest otherwise is yet another attempt to re-write history to try and show the anti-smac brigade in a better light - no surprises there then...

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 15:53
re: Outed

"I get very wound up by people not seeing the real picture and constantly moaning"

"Thats the whole point here. Mav IS probably looking at the whole picture and has come to his conclusion as a result."

I said the real picture, not the whole picture.

"I dont know the actual figures but would imagine that the latter part of Robsons reign was fairly similar to the last 4-5 months of SMACs and would also wager that managers have been sacked with better records."

Robson had a full team out, Mclaren has 10 players missing, Robson was bottom of the table, we've been in the top half all season.

"It doesnt follow that whinging about players makes them play worse - how many times to you hear them say that when the crowd gets on their back they want to do something, ie score, to shut them up , home or away."

Oh right, we'll all turn up and sing songs slagging them off then!

"It is also worth noting that perhaps the constant up beat remarks regardless of form, lead to people having unrealistic views prior to matchday and ultimately are more frustrated at having paid hard earned money to watch poor football."

I don't understand this one. My whole argument is "get off Mclarens back, he's doing a good job in difficult circumstances", not "we're going to win the champions league".

"This is the reverse of what seems to be said when people on here accuse the whingers of driving potential fans away. Both cases have some relevance."

All I want is some realism, not people whingeing that Mclaren is doing a bad job without valid reasons to support their claim.

"I for one prefer the unbiased view of Slaven who is obviously a fan but does not like what he is seeing and says so.I believe that the Brownlee optimism actually does more harm than good, as described above."

Slaven is usually realistic but recently has fallen into teh legends trapo.

"This is my opinion but I am willing to accept that I am not a premier league football manager and therefore highly unlikely to be correct. I dont know but would guess that no one on here is a premier league manager and as such we are all just expressing views on our favourite pastime - nothing more."

I'm a premierleague manager.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 15:57
re: Outed

"Lisbon I think you will find that in the world of businessmen like Steve Gibson, that being average certainly does get you fired.
Packing shelves at Tesco requires you to be average or just competent - running an accountable multi million pound organistion, like MFC is something totally different."

Who is going to fire Steve Gibson?

red_rebel Posted on 23/3 15:57
re: Outed

Again I will ask: who are the 'Smac lovers?'

I know loads of self-confessed anti-Macs who are ready to admit they hate him personally and some who come very close to hoping Boro lose in teh hope they can get rid of him.

But I don't know one single person who is a confirmed zealous fan of Mac the man. Not one who puts him on a pedastal.

Most of the people usually labled Macophants are actually peopel who may well have reservations about this or that aspect but in general have concluded he is still the man for the job.

Weighing up the situation and supporting the status quo doesn't make you an deluded extremist.

I think the notion of an army of 'pro-Mac' fanatics is a nonsense.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 15:59
re: Outed

"Robson inherited a 1st division side and despite ups and downs turned us into premiership material."

I'll think you'll find we were about to be relegated until Terry Venables was brought in.

"SMAC inherited a premiership side and turned us into ??????"

A European superpower.

toots Posted on 23/3 16:01
re: Outed

i dont understand that either. talk to loads of people who say they just dont like the bloke. you dont have to like or dislike him personally, you're not going to be hanging out with him or owt. point is whats been achieved.

sasboro Posted on 23/3 16:02
re: Outed

cant finf bandito's post on here.

A lot of smac lovers at the begining of the season were expecting us to get back into europe, as soon someone doubted it would happen they were labelled as a boo boy. Now as we struggle that is coming back to bite a few their arse. Now they wil try to brush it under the carpet, when privately they wil be very disapointed that we could be finishing in the bottom half again and no europe.

again like many times i ask, why has no contract yet been offered to smac. SUrely if he is doing a fantastic job after winning the caarling cup and getting us into europe, the chairman would be banging on his door to get him signed up. Does gibson see smac here in 1 to 4 years time? HAs gibsons head been turned recently? many assume that it is smac who is likely to want to move on with england or a club like man utd wanting his services..but on his time at boro has he done and proved enough that he has that extra quality to a bigger stage. Not getting into europe next season will probably put us back a year or 2. Gibson is a very ambitious man and if he feels things arent going aswell as he feels they should be then he wil do something about it.

"a european super power"??

--- Post edited by sasboro on 23/3 16:04 ---

onthemap Posted on 23/3 16:03
re: Outed

Lisbon - we were still premiership material under Robson whether you like it or not and we are most definately NOT a European superpower.

toots Posted on 23/3 16:08
re: Outed

i expected top 8, n hoped to get to quarters of uefa cup. i dont love him or hate him, he's just some bloke managing the team, n he's done pretty well to turn things around. just want to see the crowd behind the team for the last few games, see if we can finish on a high.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 16:09
re: Outed

"Lisbon - we were still premiership material under Robson whether you like it or not and we are most definately NOT a European superpower."

Whether I like it or not? I have no grudge with Robson, he did brilliantly for us but had taken us as far as he could. Without Venables appointment though we would have been relegated.

How can you say we're not a European superpower? Ask people in the Czech republic, Italy, Spain, Greece, Portugal, Yugoslavia and Austria if they've heard of the mighty Middlesbrough. Of course they have.

Scrote Posted on 23/3 16:11
re: Outed

sas you really can't be that stupid so i will ignore your first point

however at the start of the season the head ra-ra said he wanted to get past banik ostrava and that he wanted a decent finish in the league with perhaps a cup run thrown in - he also said that he wasn't expecting us to get straight back into europe but did expect that we would get in every couple of seasons and that he would also like us to win a trophy every few seasons

we are well on course to top all this seasons targets - the only people with higher expectations than that are the boo-boys by definition

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 16:15
re: Outed

A lot of smac lovers at the begining of the season were expecting us to get back into europe, as soon someone doubted it would happen they were labelled as a boo boy. Now as we struggle that is coming back to bite a few their arse. Now they wil try to brush it under the carpet, when privately they wil be very disapointed that we could be finishing in the bottom half again and no europe.

I believe we would (and still can!) qualify for Europe if we hadn't been decimated by injury. I am disappointed that we're struggling but am also realistic and I don't think we'll finish in the bottom half.

"again like many times i ask, why has no contract yet been offered to smac. SUrely if he is doing a fantastic job after winning the caarling cup and getting us into europe, the chairman would be banging on his door to get him signed up. Does gibson see smac here in 1 to 4 years time? HAs gibsons head been turned recently? many assume that it is smac who is likely to want to move on with england or a club like man utd wanting his services..but on his time at boro has he done and proved enough that he has that extra quality to a bigger stage.

Why would he be offered another contract when he still has so long to go on his existing contract? It wouldn't make financial sense. That is why.

"Not getting into europe next season will probably put us back a year or 2. Gibson is a very ambitious man and if he feels things arent going aswell as he feels they should be then he wil do something about it."

It remains to be seen whether we will qualify for Europe next season but how will that put us back 2 years?? It may mean we won't have the pulling power of the previous season and hinder us getting quality players in but what else?

"a european super power"??

Yes. Believe it. The people of Lisbon do.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 16:18
re: Outed

I ask again SASBoro. What are your targets for Middlesbrough this season and next? What were they at the beginning of the season?

karembeu_ca Posted on 23/3 16:26
re: Outed

I for one think this is one of the best threads for a while, with some really reasoned arguments both ways. Granted Legend has gone a bot over the top here and there, and Sas always does

The bottom line for me is that I would rather be complaining about failing to make a Euro spot than happy we missed out on relegation on the last day of the season! These are good problems to have.

Expectations are higher for the fans these days, success breeds that, and it is ultimately Gibbo that decides if we have met the standards, not us.

fatharrywhite Posted on 23/3 16:27
re: Outed

"Why would he be offered another contract when he still has so long to go on his existing contract? It wouldn't make financial sense. That is why."

i've agreed with 99.9% of your posts so far and have all been a very good read. However, the above statement....as far as i know McClaren has only got one season left on his contract and i find it odd that nothing has been said about opening contract talks with him let alone him signing a new one. we never let players contracts get to this stage without at least discussing new deals..

toots Posted on 23/3 16:30
re: Outed

well, does it really matter about his contract? maybe he'll just see out his five year plan, n then we move on from there. gibson is the one who knows whats going on, n thats fine with me.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 16:32
re: Outed

"I for one think this is one of the best threads for a while, with some really reasoned arguments both ways. Granted Legend has gone a bot over the top here and there, and Sas always does"

Over the top? Who? me? When?

"The bottom line for me is that I would rather be complaining about failing to make a Euro spot than happy we missed out on relegation on the last day of the season! These are good problems to have."

Exactly, it's been a disappointment but hardly a crisis and if we get some of our top boys back there's still hope.

"Expectations are higher for the fans these days, success breeds that, and it is ultimately Gibbo that decides if we have met the standards, not us."

True, I think expectation for one has gone up and vocal support from the terraces has gone down. Like a big comfort zone that we pay our money, expect a result and then have a moan. What's happened to the crowd getting up from the off and cheering the boys on? I know Mark page has destroyed the prematch rituals with his ridiculous airplay and lulled everyone into a coma but we can all still do a lot more.

fatharrywhite Posted on 23/3 16:34
re: Outed

i think it does, look at the amount of teams that go downhill when they know the manager will be leaving in X months time??

makes it harder to sign players in the summer - why would they sign long contracts when the manager might not be around in 12 months time?

next season where will the motivation be to impress the manager when the likelihood will be that he wont be around much longer..?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 16:36
re: Outed

"Why would he be offered another contract when he still has so long to go on his existing contract? It wouldn't make financial sense. That is why."

"i've agreed with 99.9% of your posts so far and have all been a very good read. However, the above statement....as far as i know McClaren has only got one season left on his contract and i find it odd that nothing has been said about opening contract talks with him let alone him signing a new one. we never let players contracts get to this stage without at least discussing new deals.."

Ok, I partially take that back. He still has over a year left and we don't know what position the club is goinbg to be in next season. There's a lot of money riding on our league position and this may be a contributing factor in any decisions taken for next season, that is what I was inferring. Players can leave on Bosmans though whereas there isn't usually a transfer fee involved for managers, more compensation, so I don't suppose it's as critical.

Gillandi Posted on 23/3 16:37
re: Outed

"again like many times i ask, why has no contract yet been offered to smac."

How do you know it hasn't been offered? How do you know there isn't already a gentlemans agreement in principle to extend the contract for 4 years come a certain date if a bigger club hasn't come in for him by then? How do you know Gibson didn't re-iterate his support for Mac after the Southampton game? How do you know the paperwork for this new contract isn't already being drafted? How do you know an announcement isn't due soon?

When in your Boro supporting life have MFC been completly open about it's plans with the press?

toots Posted on 23/3 16:37
re: Outed

well, there could be all sorts of reasons for it.. maybe waiting to finish concentrating on this season's struggle, maybe just not releasing owt to the public yet... i cant see its worth worrying about, specially as it seems to me the majority of people i speak to want to get rid of him anyway.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 16:40
re: Outed

"i think it does, look at the amount of teams that go downhill when they know the manager will be leaving in X months time??"

That is true but I wouldn't really worry about until the end of the season. Gibson will no doubt have a plan. One way or another.

"makes it harder to sign players in the summer - why would they sign long contracts when the manager might not be around in 12 months time?"

Also probably true but I would again say see what happens in the summer.

"next season where will the motivation be to impress the manager when the likelihood will be that he wont be around much longer..?"

Let's make sure we qualify for Europe then!

fatharrywhite Posted on 23/3 16:41
re: Outed

you may well be right gillandi, but there is usually at the very least whispers in the press about contract offers etc... has anyone seen even the slightest mention of any contract talks??

You'd need very long memories but can anyone remember the situation with Robson? Did he jut sign a new deal or was there mention of it in the press beforehand??

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 16:43
re: Outed

"well, there could be all sorts of reasons for it.. maybe waiting to finish concentrating on this season's struggle, maybe just not releasing owt to the public yet"

That would also be a major factor, Managers contracts give the press something to speculate on which would only be destructive to our season.

"i cant see its worth worrying about, specially as it seems to me the majority of people i speak to want to get rid of him anyway."

Well don't speak to them anymore then. ;-)

Gillandi Posted on 23/3 16:46
re: Outed

FatHarry - I remember Bob Mortimor breaking the news to me that Bryan Robson was to be our next manager during the coverage for the last FA Cup final Robbo was involved in at man U (on the bench,) so rumours do get out yes. I'd suggest, if we are just using the soccer grapevine as our guide and there has been no leaks of a new incoming manager, then that points to McClaren staying

He's under-contract, the onus is on the prosecution.

--- Post edited by Gillandi on 23/3 16:47 ---

toots Posted on 23/3 16:53
re: Outed

i like speaking to them. be a pretty grim place if i didnt speak to people, even if they do look too much on the downside for my liking. its good chatter for the mornings at work.

blotonthelandscape Posted on 23/3 16:54
re: Outed

BTW I can confirm that Sas is a Geordie.

Back_Door_Barry Posted on 23/3 16:56
re: Outed

Lisbonlegend - You are Alistair Brownlee and I claim my free hysterical scream next time we score.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 16:59
re: Outed

"i like speaking to them. be a pretty grim place if i didnt speak to people, even if they do look too much on the downside for my liking. its good chatter for the mornings at work."

Nah, I was just kidding. Nothing wrong with people having different opinions, just as long as they have substance. It makes things interesting and sometimes violent. Nah, I'm kidding again, it's not come to that yet.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 17:01
re: Outed

"Lisbonlegend - You are Alistair Brownlee and I claim my free hysterical scream next time we score."

Why so? I'm realistic and optimistic. I'm not deluded and sadistic.

Gillandi Posted on 23/3 17:03
re: Outed

I dont think Sasboro is a Geordie but I can definately confirm he never answers direct questions about what he actually believes when it comes to Boro. He speaks for others but never himself. An absolute master of the "People were saying..." pre-disclaimer and after that he's pretty much in a world of his own to my eyes.



--- Post edited by Gillandi on 23/3 17:04 ---

toots Posted on 23/3 17:03
re: Outed

well, it might come to violence at the next home game, its a sickening atmosphere. bloke was there again on sunday, constantly chuntering bollx. SHUT THE FCK UP!! cos i pay my money as well, n im entitled... bla bla.. scrap.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 17:08
re: Outed

"well, it might come to violence at the next home game, its a sickening atmosphere. bloke was there again on sunday, constantly chuntering bollx. SHUT THE FCK UP!! cos i pay my money as well, n im entitled... bla bla.. scrap"

Which stand are you in? I'm going to get there early against Arsenal like a cheerleader and try and get the atmosphere going!

Back_Door_Barry Posted on 23/3 17:10
re: Outed

Does anyone else recall the punches being thrown on the Holgate when some wanted Lennie out, others not ?

Wonder how the pro Lawrence camp feel now? Pretty stupid I`d guess !

toots Posted on 23/3 17:12
re: Outed

in the north... but as youve pointed out already, there's no point in trying to get atmosphere going, as it gets drowned out by the pa stuff. just try n get the boo boys around you to stop their self-centred hate campaign, or we'll end up 13th or 14th at this rate.

Gillandi Posted on 23/3 17:15
re: Outed

Barry - Why would they feel stupid now?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 17:21
re: Outed

"Does anyone else recall the punches being thrown on the Holgate when some wanted Lennie out, others not ?

Wonder how the pro Lawrence camp feel now? Pretty stupid I`d guess !"

Yes, I was well up for it. I was definitely anti Lawrence at that point, the game when we had one striker against Cardiff at home pushed me over the edge. That one striker was Graham Kavangh. Oh dear. Time to go Leonard.

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 23/3 17:22
re: Outed

Lennie was given no money to spend to be fair.

Back_Door_Barry Posted on 23/3 17:23
re: Outed

Gillandi - why do you think?
Where do you think the club would be now if Lawrence had remained at the helm?
Exactly where cardiff are now - new stadium or not !

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 17:23
re: Outed

"in the north... but as youve pointed out already, there's no point in trying to get atmosphere going, as it gets drowned out by the pa stuff. just try n get the boo boys around you to stop their self-centred hate campaign, or we'll end up 13th or 14th at this rate."

I'm North aswell. Still I'll give it my best shot. I ended up having a big argument at the Lisbon game with the bloke sat in front of me. I'm just going to shout is his ear next match. We're going to get the Boat and the Duke back and we're going to beat a fading Arsenal team.

--- Post edited by Lisbonlegend on 23/3 17:27 ---

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 17:26
re: Outed

"Lennie was given no money to spend to be fair."

And thank goodness for that. Gibson knew he was a goner.

At least Lennie gave me that great semi final at Old Trafford when we were robbed by Pallys goal line clearance and that magical day at Wolves when there must have been another few thousand Boro fans in the Wolves end. Oh what a joyous day.

--- Post edited by Lisbonlegend on 23/3 17:26 ---

toots Posted on 23/3 17:27
re: Outed

think about that one when it comes, palace to get thru first. not hopeful myself, but with people back from injury, things might look up.

MyBoro Posted on 23/3 17:29
re: Outed

I'll keep it simple for you Lisbon

I don't think he gets the best out of the team he sends onto the pitch. Seen numerous examples with my own eyes. In my mind means he lacks in the manegerial department.

A big finish to this season and he can have another go next year, continue the slump and its time to find a real manager not a "potential" one.

Gillandi Posted on 23/3 17:33
re: Outed

Back Door barry - I supported Lennie through that time and had one or two very heated debates but that wasn't to say I didn't want Boro to have a better manager or wasn't delighted to see what Gibson's long term plans were at the end of that season. I thought Lawrence was doing the best he could at the time with the resources he had and the passing of time has shown that Lennie was never anything less than completely honourable in his dealings with us. He actually brokered the deal that brought Bryan Robson to Middlesbrough. It was his foot in the door as a friend of Ferguson's that started the ball rolling.

Maybe you feel daft now if you spent all that season slagging him off whilst he was helping behind the scenes to provide the brave new future for us that came to fruition that you are enjoying today.

Er, only you arnt are you. Judging by your posts you look to be back in square one and here's me, still as happy as a lark and loving my Boro.







--- Post edited by Gillandi on 23/3 17:37 ---

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 17:42
re: Outed

"think about that one when it comes, palace to get thru first. not hopeful myself, but with people back from injury, things might look up."

I think our chances are solely resting on getting our best players back. Hopefully they'll be without Andy Johnson aswell as he seems to be keeping them up single handedly.

--- Post edited by Lisbonlegend on 23/3 17:42 ---

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 17:47
re: Outed

"I'll keep it simple for you Lisbon"

Thanks.

"I don't think he gets the best out of the team he sends onto the pitch. Seen numerous examples with my own eyes. In my mind means he lacks in the manegerial department."

Can you give me some examples? What about moving Bolo inside, he looks tremendous in there and a much improved player. What about Chris Riggott? He was a decent player when he signed but he's come on in leaps and bounds. If you're going to say he's not getting the best out of the team I want to know why. It's a big generalisation to make and how do you know that what you're watching is not the best that these players can give at that moment in time?

"A big finish to this season and he can have another go next year, continue the slump and its time to find a real manager not a "potential" one."

But do you not agree that the slump has been caused by the horrendous injury list and the team we have been forced to put out is simply not up to the task of finishing in the top 6 of the premiership?

--- Post edited by Lisbonlegend on 23/3 17:49 ---

onthemap Posted on 23/3 17:51
re: Outed

Lisbon
Sorry for the delayed response but I had to go out of the room whilst I got over the fact that you think we are a European superpower without even meaning to be sarcastic.Can you please just answer these few questions?

1 Can you hand on heart say that the results since christmas are satisfactory to you - just yes or no will do (weve heard about the injuries.

2 Why are you convinced that the people on here who dont agree with your outlook and general opinion are necessarily boo boys?Is it beyond your comprehension that they may actually cheer and sing and express their opinions on vehicles such as this board.

3 Why is it your right to roar your approval at the team and not extend the same right to the boo boys.

4 How does one reasonably successful season in Europe make us a European superpower.

5 Why do you think that the people on here are having a go at SMAC. Is it the results or do they really just want MFC to fail? and if you think its the latter why would they not just withdraw their support instead of taking the time and effort to debate with people who are so opposite in viewpoint?

6 What happens if we get the players back from injury and the slump continues - will you change your opinion?

7 If the answer to the above is yes then why not allow the thought that others may have just come to your conclusion earlier?

8 Why do you think that the people who dont now support SMAC are not grateful for his achievements?

9 I have seen the Drifters in a number of the countries you mention whilst on holiday - does that mean they are a European Superpower.

MyBoro Posted on 23/3 18:21
re: Outed

Example - Southampton, team underperformed.
Team not players as he is a manager not a coach.

Slump has not been caused by injuries IMO. The team we had out on Sunday did not win but was capable of winning with the players available.

Aston Villa, Norwich, Lisbon (1st leg) more examples

Scrote Posted on 23/3 18:24
re: Outed

OOOOOHHH!!! a test - can i have a go

1 Can you hand on heart say that the results since christmas are satisfactory to you - just yes or no will do (weve heard about the injuries.

NO

2 Why are you convinced that the people on here who dont agree with your outlook and general opinion are necessarily boo boys?Is it beyond your comprehension that they may actually cheer and sing and express their opinions on vehicles such as this board.

because my viewpoint is formed by what steve gibson set out as the requirements for this season to be "a success" - anyone criticising what we have done (which is over and above what gibson asked for) is IMHO a negative influence and there is a large number of people who don't go to games who have these opinions - they are reinforced by the boo boys who rarely, if ever, answer a direct question

3 Why is it your right to roar your approval at the team and not extend the same right to the boo boys.

would you start booing at a concert recital if the conductor was ginger? would you accept that to join in the applause was considered "natural" rather than "over exuberant"?

booing is not natural from the home support towards a tewam beleaguered by injury but still being in the last 16 of europe and only just dropping out of the top six in the prem

4 How does one reasonably successful season in Europe make us a European superpower.

i agree - we aren't - but i can see where LL is coming from in terms of we now far better known across europe than we were and the likes of bolton still are

5 Why do you think that the people on here are having a go at SMAC. Is it the results or do they really just want MFC to fail? and if you think its the latter why would they not just withdraw their support instead of taking the time and effort to debate with people who are so opposite in viewpoint?

there is no debate (see 2) - there is sniping, moaning and the positing of spurious FACTS - but there is rarely debate (with a few notable exceptions like PapaJohn - but he only debates on specific things like management stats)

6 What happens if we get the players back from injury and the slump continues - will you change your opinion?

this makes no sense - are you asking me to change my opinion on boro in general, smac, gibson or the fans?

if we had a full team out and were not even looking like competing i'd be seriously peeved but it would depend on why we weren't competing as to where i would lay the blame

7 If the answer to the above is yes then why not allow the thought that others may have just come to your conclusion earlier?

so people have come to the conclusion that the slump will continue when players return before they do? - what chance does that give us??

what you are saying is that people came to the conclusion that things weren't good enough before the slump which coincided with us being in the top 5 of the prem and topping the "group of death" in the uefa

and you wonder why they are called boo boys??

8 Why do you think that the people who dont now support SMAC are not grateful for his achievements?

because he sold juninho and has ginger hair - seriously

9 I have seen the Drifters in a number of the countries you mention whilst on holiday - does that mean they are a European Superpower.

no - they are american you divvy

uncle_harry Posted on 23/3 18:25
re: Outed

So SasBoro when you say 'i have never said sack him or had a go at him personally.' are you including the bit on sunday when you said you wanted to 'spit in his face' you meant that in the non personal sense right?

karembeu_ca Posted on 23/3 18:26
re: Outed

the slump is not due to injuries???

the only changes that SMAC has had to make to tactics were due to injuries, and we were 5th and flying with a fit squad.

granted, we should have beaten Soton ON PAPER with the squad we had out, but who is to say fitness and fatigue was not an issue, again due to the injuries. I don't know it is an issue, just as you don't know it isn't.

Scrote Posted on 23/3 18:31
re: Outed


karembeu_ca Posted on 23/3 18:32
re: Outed

you just posted that to get the 100 - LMAO

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 18:42
re: Outed

Lisbon
"Sorry for the delayed response but I had to go out of the room whilst I got over the fact that you think we are a European superpower without even meaning to be sarcastic."

Of course I was being sarcastic! Do you seriously think I believe we're Barcelona or Real Madrid???!

Can you please just answer these few questions?

Yes.

1 Can you hand on heart say that the results since christmas are satisfactory to you - just yes or no will do (weve heard about the injuries.

No.

2 Why are you convinced that the people on here who dont agree with your outlook and general opinion are necessarily boo boys?Is it beyond your comprehension that they may actually cheer and sing and express their opinions on vehicles such as this board.

No, that is not my feeling, the people who started the thread actually had no specific argument but just felt it necessary to spread the poison and recruit people for the antimac brigade like some sort of religious sect. So I was just saying, listen people, they're talking rubbish.

There are another breed, a worse breed who find it supportive to abuse the players and management during the game and boo them. I heavily disagree with this also, it is detrimental to on field performances.

3 Why is it your right to roar your approval at the team and not extend the same right to the boo boys.

As I said above, it is detrimental to onfield performances to boo your displeasure during a match. Surely every supporter wants the maximum performance they can from the team and support from the stand is a definite help.

4 How does one reasonably successful season in Europe make us a European superpower.

Again, tongue in cheek.

5 Why do you think that the people on here are having a go at SMAC. Is it the results or do they really just want MFC to fail? and if you think its the latter why would they not just withdraw their support instead of taking the time and effort to debate with people who are so opposite in viewpoint?

I'm sure each person has their reasons. There are those who
a)just don't like his personality, cornedbeef cheeks, ginger hair, etc.
b)Those that are frustrated with current results and look no further than the manager for the reasons and don't take into account that a great number of factors outside the managers control affect the season and level of performance which a team achieves.
c)Those who don't support the club and are out to cause trouble.
d)Those who just like a good moan.
e)Those who just listen to the 3 legends and follow the crowd.
f)Probably a few other reasons that haven't quite come to me.

6 What happens if we get the players back from injury and the slump continues - will you change your opinion?

No, that won't necesarily change my opinion because there is no gaurantee that these players will come back into the team in the same vein of form in which they left and we only have 8 games left. I am hopnig they'll make a big difference but I know from playing myself that you don't just walk straight back into the groove. We all saw what the team was capable of in the first half of the season so in that respect my opinion is that injuries decimated our season and Mclaren has had to pick up the pieces. My opinion is not set in stone, if I think Mclaren is not doing the business I will be the first to say so but overall he's done a good job and deserves support.

7 If the answer to the above is yes then why not allow the thought that others may have just come to your conclusion earlier?

No.

8 Why do you think that the people who dont now support SMAC are not grateful for his achievements?

Because if they were they would realise that it's a building process and not a short term fix.

9 I have seen the Drifters in a number of the countries you mention whilst on holiday - does that mean they are a European Superpower.

Again the words tongue and cheek in the same sentence.

Apologies for the delay in response as I was cooking some chicken and pasta, lovely it is.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 19:17
re: Outed

I think there's a definite tendency creeping into the mindset of Middlesbrough supporters to moan. In the past people used to have a grumble at the match and slag off particular players (the chicken run) but overall people would go to enjoy the game, have a laugh, a singsong, abuse the opposition and come up with witty anecdotes during the match to lighten the atmosphere.

Nowadays, due to the changes in culture, the internet, three legends, nice covered all seater stadiums people just like to have a good old moan. If they do it in the pub over a few pints then fair enough but it's crept into the stadium. Whinge, whinge, moan, moan, Mclaren this, mclaren that, blah, blah, blah. Well to be quite honest it's all a load of bulls**t. I've stood there at ayresome park against Darlington in the old third division when they crashed one into the top corner and the game ended 1-1. 1-1 with Darlington in the third division!

Now, we're in our posh new ground, 30,000 fans, A team of international players, the Carling cup in our cabinet, a nice UEFA cup run, looking down on the geordies languishing 4 points below us, Sunderland in a different division and I look around for scenes of celebration and what do I hear, yes, you've guessed it "sack the manager, Mclaren out"!

I sit there and think to myself that the atmosphere at that Darlington match in 1986 was actually better than sitting with a load of miserable moaning spoilt Boro fans who haven't the first clue about managing a premiership team. Lisbon restored my faith and Southampton brought me back to reality.

It's becoming embarassing, it's becoming depressing. Mark Page you also have a lot to answer for, get that cr*p off. We're not robots or primary school children. We don't need prompting to ring a ring of roses, we want to get excited, angry, have a go at the ref, not clap and go der der der der. We don't need a DJ cheerleader. We need to get some passion and atmosphere into our ground. We need to be able to support the team and build up a head of steam instead of grumbling through another 90 minutes.

Yes, we've had a bad run since christmas, yes it's disappointing but it wasn't the managers fault that 10 players are out injured and he's been forced to play bit part players and kids who either aren't good enough or aren't ready to play a major part in the side.

Think about it at the next home game. We're not in the 3rd division, we're not playing Darlington, we'll be playing the champions Arsenal in our 35,000 seater stadium to try and earn a place in next years UEFA cup. Take your frustration out on Arsenal, Goad ugly Viera and donkey Lehman, sing your hearts out for the lads and lets all try to enjoy it.

I'm going to shut up now.

toots Posted on 23/3 19:23
re: Outed

yeah, thats my favourite point...why dont we take it out on the opposition any more, try n put them off their games instead. its worked before. some get fired up by it, but thats a rare few.. thinking of the dodgy bad lad who's at newcastle now...damn cant remember his name , but it was always a mistake to goad him, he inevitably upped his game.

uncle_harry Posted on 23/3 19:26
re: Outed

no malice intended eh?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 19:28
re: Outed

"no malice intended eh?"

Lots of malice but jsut don't throw your mobile phones at them. You might lose all your contact details.

karembeu_ca Posted on 23/3 19:35
re: Outed

"languishing 4 points below us"

funniest post today !!!

onthemap Posted on 23/3 19:41
re: Outed

Sorry Lisbon but a lot of what you are saying is just not true.People moaned at Ayresome park just as they do now. It just seems that when you look back on those days the wit and banter seem to be not as prevalent today as they were in the good old 60s.
Whats wrong with the premise that if football is so much more expensive now that we should expect that much more entertainment.
Thats what football is you know,entertainment,I have no obligation to visit matches home or away, I do so of my own volition and the level of entertainment is one of my key considerations on the level of support I give the team.
I couldnt care less about the glory, that will come and go ,as it seems to have at the moment.The 3 legends is of no real consequence either other than as a means of enjoyment.
My children go to the games to be entertained not to get involved in abusing players home or away and quite frankly this attitude that abuse of away players is ok but quite a different matter if directed at your own players is not something I am comfortable with.It may be mildly amusing at times but at what other form of entertainment do you hear bitter and twisted abuse being heaped on people carrying out their jobs.
And finally if hurling abuse is whats required in order for my team to be successful then I would rather sit with a cork in my mouth anyway. If you are a father then perhaps you will understand my sentiments.

boro_by_heart_2k5 Posted on 23/3 19:51
re: Outed

Ste Mac is rubbish. I dont agree with the man, does that make me a Geordie? If I was a Georide why have I been to every away game in both Europe and the league this year and all the home ones? Thick little ..

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 19:59
re: Outed

"Sorry Lisbon but a lot of what you are saying is just not true."

Ok

"People moaned at Ayresome park just as they do now."

I said that.

"It just seems that when you look back on those days the wit and banter seem to be not as prevalent today as they were in the good old 60s."

Definitely but I'm not old enough to remember the 60's.

"Whats wrong with the premise that if football is so much more expensive now that we should expect that much more entertainment."

It's relative expense though, is it not? It is more expensive but so is everything and wages are bigger. Football is a sport which happens to entertain. Winning is the greatest thrill though, entertainment is a thrill but winning is the greatest thrill and anyone who was at Cardiff can't tell me otherwise. I'm not saying I don't want entertainment but when the final whistle goes on it's another 3 points is job done, head held high, time for Geordie/mackem bashing.

"Thats what football is you know,entertainment,I have no obligation to visit matches home or away,"

Nobody does.

"I do so of my own volition and the level of entertainment is one of my key considerations on the level of support I give the team."

A valid point which I'm sure is shared by many. My point would be that you are never gauranteed a set level of entertainment at any match and what do you class as entertainment? Goals? If so then you should be happy as it's our highest goals output in the top flight for a long while.

"I couldnt care less about the glory, that will come and go ,as it seems to have at the moment.The 3 legends is of no real consequence either other than as a means of enjoyment. "

So you don't care whether the team wins??? Surely you enjoy it more when the team is succesful? My point was that all the moaning on the 3 legends becomes and epidemic and spreads through to matchdays.

"My children go to the games to be entertained not to get involved in abusing players home or away and quite frankly this attitude that abuse of away players is ok but quite a different matter if directed at your own players is not something I am comfortable with."

I didn't ask your children to get involved in this unless they would like to. By abuse I don't mean racial vitriol or any other form of bigotry but A light hearted p*ss take in unison by thousands of people that makes us all laugh.

"It may be mildly amusing at times but at what other form of entertainment do you hear bitter and twisted abuse being heaped on people carrying out their jobs."

It's a sport rather than a job and so what, it's part of the experience. The players are big enough to cope with it. I'm sure they don't go home and cry.

"And finally if hurling abuse is whats required in order for my team to be successful then I would rather sit with a cork in my mouth anyway. If you are a father then perhaps you will understand my sentiments."

Ok, I take your point of view. I didn't say abuse would make the team succesful but would bring the passion back to what is a depressing sterile atmosphere. I for one would abuse an opposition player through a means of frustration and intimidation to decrease the oppositions level of performance. As toots says it may well have the opposite effect. C'est la vie.

Which stand do you sit in if you don't mind me asking?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 20:01
re: Outed

"Ste Mac is rubbish. I dont agree with the man, does that make me a Geordie? If I was a Georide why have I been to every away game in both Europe and the league this year and all the home ones? Thick little .."

Why is he rubbish and why don't you agree? Please expand. Do you have proof that you went to all of these games? What is your patron number at the riverside? What, you have been to every Newcastle game home and away or Middlesbrough games?

--- Post edited by Lisbonlegend on 23/3 20:04 ---

karembeu_ca Posted on 23/3 20:03
re: Outed

remember that epoisode of the Simpsons where mr Burns gets in 'ringers' for the company softball team. Bart and Lisa heckling Darryl Strawberry... "DARRYL DARRYL DARRYL".

Marge complains while Bart and Lisa say it is all part of the game and players don;t care ... while Darrly cries quietly on the field, class.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 23/3 20:09
re: Outed

"remember that epoisode of the Simpsons where mr Burns gets in 'ringers' for the company softball team. Bart and Lisa heckling Darryl Strawberry... "DARRYL DARRYL DARRYL".

Marge complains while Bart and Lisa say it is all part of the game and players don;t care ... while Darrly cries quietly on the field, class."

Not seen it.

onthemap Posted on 23/3 20:14
re: Outed

Lisbon
I sit in the East stand and I am old enough to remember the 60s so can comment on that era.
I understand your frustration at the lack of atmosphere and can vouch for the fact that fanatical support does not necessarily mean that critiscism has no place within it.
Some of us , perhaps the older generation,can say that depressive atmospheres are sometimes brought on by constant abusive comments and the type of hatred expressed at football matches is unnaceptable to the majority of supporters.
If you can put your hand on your heart and say that all you see is general convivial banter then you are in a diffenet stadium to me.
If you want to see what form this hatred takes just ask the police not to segregate the fans. It will of course never happen but light heated p..s taking does not lead to the levels of violence that would ensue.
I have no axe to grind with SMAC but not being listened to because a few ignorant so and sos have the same view as me is not acceptable.
Every club has debate over the team,football is a passionate sport and the vast majority of us ask to be entertained and no this does not always mean winning. Just look at the numbers on here who just ask that the players give 100% and would look on a chelsea scenario coming to Teesside as the end of the true Boro.
Of course the more points the better, the more goals the better,but not at the expense of tradition and at the acceptance of hatred and violence.
By the way I respect your point of view and the passion that you obviously feel for the club.

uncle_harry Posted on 23/3 21:28
re: Outed

you wanted to 'spit in his face' but not in a bad way sb have i got that right then?

HolgateEnder Posted on 23/3 22:07
re: Outed

am i the only one what things this lisbon lion fella is Tony Vickers defeinding himself after all the bullshyite thrown at him yesterday.
Go on son, get stuck in.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 24/3 10:59
re: Outed

"am i the only one what things this lisbon lion fella is Tony Vickers defeinding himself after all the bullshyite thrown at him yesterday.
Go on son, get stuck in."

Good one. Why? Because I happen to think that Mclaren shudnt be sacked? That makes me Anthony Vickers? Don't think so. There must be a lot of Anthony Vickers around.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 24/3 11:16
re: Outed

"Myboro said "Example - Southampton, team underperformed.
Team not players as he is a manager not a coach."

Slump has not been caused by injuries IMO. The team we had out on Sunday did not win but was capable of winning with the players available."

Aston Villa, Norwich, Lisbon (1st leg) more examples"

How can you say that the slump has not been caused by injuries? It clearly has! Losing Boateng was a massive blow and the stats without him are terible. The team is simply not physically strong enough. Doriva, Zenden, Nemeth and Downing. They're about 20stone combined. A bunch of wet sponges. We have no steel in the centre of the park which we would have with Parlour and Boateng.

I personally think that the team put out was not mentally and physically fit enough to perform in the Villa and Southampton games. A jaded reserve team basically. I don't think it was Mclarens lack of motivation or tactics, the players looked empty. The main evidence is with the older players. These players don't need Mac to motivate them, they're international players who have played at the highest level and haven't got where they are by relying on the manager to get them going. The likes of Southgate, Parlour and Hasselbaink. Southgate is a model professional and rarely has a bad game but at Southampton he was atrocious and I don't for one moment think that was due to Mclarens failure to manage him. Do you?

As for the Norwich game, the performance was pretty good but the last 10 minutes were diabolical and the fact we ended up with Reizeger playing centre back is not an ideal situation.

Lisbon (1st leg). I believe Mclaren probably got his tactics wrong in the first half, he probably could have gone with a 4-4-2 from the off but for me they butchered us for 10 minutes in the second half and it was game over. Also Lisbon are a very good European team so to lose 3-2 was a bad result but by no means an embarassing one.

boro_Maverick Posted on 24/3 11:24
re: Outed

Lisbon you're either a student kid or unemployed, nobody has that much spare time. Either way my taxes are paying for you.

Damn leach.

onthemap Posted on 24/3 11:27
re: Outed

Lisbon
Did you consider that perhaps we were that poor that we made Sporting look good.This will or will not be proven when the Geordies play them.
If the Geordies beat them will that mean they are a better team than us making them in your opinion a European superpower?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 24/3 11:37
re: Outed

"I sit in the East stand and" I am old enough to remember the 60s so can comment on that era.

I'm a North satnder and most of eth atmosphere is generated from there so much as I would like the East stand to be as vociferous I appreciate that people don't want to sit in and have the same passion as those in our end.

"I am old enough to remember the 60s so can comment on that era."

What I meant was I have no recollection of the 60's as I wasn't born.

"I understand your frustration at the lack of atmosphere and can vouch for the fact that fanatical support does not necessarily mean that critiscism has no place within it."

ok

"Some of us , perhaps the older generation,can say that depressive atmospheres are sometimes brought on by constant abusive comments and the type of hatred expressed at football matches is unnaceptable to the majority of supporters."

Depressive atmospheres are generated if abusive comments are aimed at our own team, I don't believe taking the mick out of Gazza, Nick Barmby or Donkey Adams for example makes for a depressive atmosphere. I think it's quite amusing and lifts the crowd.

"If you can put your hand on your heart and say that all you see is general convivial banter then you are in a diffenet stadium to me."

I don't think it's convivial banter but that's my point, I'm sick of the snipinbg and moaning and abuse of Mclaren and the team, I want to see the support act like support like they used to. Is that too much to ask?

"If you want to see what form this hatred takes just ask the police not to segregate the fans. It will of course never happen but light heated p..s taking does not lead to the levels of violence that would ensue."

You have completely lost me now?

"I have no axe to grind with SMAC but not being listened to because a few ignorant so and sos have the same view as me is not acceptable."

Could you care to elaborate?

"Every club has debate over the team,football is a passionate sport and the vast majority of us ask to be entertained and no this does not always mean winning."

I agree it does not always mean winning but surely winning is more enjoyable than losing? You said you weren't bothered by the outcome as long as you're entertained, I say do you go to support Middlesbrough or just watch a football match regardless of the outcome?

"Just look at the numbers on here who just ask that the players give 100% and would look on a chelsea scenario coming to Teesside as the end of the true Boro."

I think every supporter just wants the players to give 100% as the minimum required. The club will always evolve, it's a part of football, to be at the top you have to stay with the times. I don't understand what you mean by a Chelsea scenario?

Of course the more points the better, the more goals the better,but not at the expense of tradition and at the acceptance of hatred and violence.

Who is condoning hatred and violence? I never said that? Maybe in jest about the malice and throwing mobile phones but I was asking for a passionate response from our support to get behind our team and take their frustration out on the opposition rather than our own team. I didn't say run on teh pitch and give them a good kicking.

"By the way I respect your point of view and the passion that you obviously feel for the club."

Thanks, the club means everything to me as I'm sure it does for a lot of people. The club being the best would mean everything to me and I want us to win every match but I'm not blionded enough to see that these things take time. I've followed them all over the place since I was 9 and to see the strides the club has made is a dream come true. We could be sat there in the lower leagues like a Huddersfield or a Forest but we've come a million miles which is why I find it difficult to comprehend all the moaners and snipers who think sacking the manager is a great way to improve the club.

Unfortunately our success has meant that a new fan who just wants to see entertainment above the succcess of the team has changed the atmosphere in teh stadium. One which I personally do not like. When the team performs poorly it's the passionate fans with teh clubs interest at heart who pick up the pieces. The fact that most of the crowd have season tickets means that these supporters have to sit within these other fans and listen to the sniping and moaning. Those fans who would desert the club were it not for the rush of season tickets caused by our own clubs continued success. A double edged sword I'm afraid.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 24/3 11:43
re: Outed

"Lisbon you're either a student kid or unemployed, nobody has that much spare time. Either way my taxes are paying for you.

Damn leach."

So a person who happens to be unemployed, possibly through no fault of his own or a person studying to better himself or herself and launch a career are leeches. That is actually highly offensive and shows the amount of intelligence you really have.

As it happens I have never collected the dole/jobseekers allowance in my life although I was a student for 10 years but it was actually all done part time whilst holding down a regular job.

You appear to have as much spare time as me so is that not the pot calling the kettle? It's nice to know that you pay taxes aswell, not very much though by the sounds of it.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 24/3 11:47
re: Outed

"Did you consider that perhaps we were that poor that we made Sporting look good.This will or will not be proven when the Geordies play them."

Don't get me wrong, I thought we were poor, we didn't deserve to win and although I think Sporting are a decent side they were clinical rather than brilliant. I think the geordies will beat them although I really hope they don't.

"If the Geordies beat them will that mean they are a better team than us making them in your opinion a European superpower?"

At the moment I think the geordies have a better squad than us but not a better team. Newcastle are a relative European superpower although not at the same level as a real Madrid or a Barcelona.

red_rebel Posted on 24/3 11:50
re: Outed

This is great. Someone who does longer posts than me.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 24/3 11:52
re: Outed

"This is great. Someone who does longer posts than me."

Well that one wasn't very long!

red_rebel Posted on 24/3 11:55
re: Outed

I'm leaving the stage clear for you.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 24/3 11:56
re: Outed

"I'm leaving the stage clear for you."

Thanks!

Feel free to join in at any time. ;-)

boro_Maverick Posted on 24/3 11:58
re: Outed

Nobody has as much spare time as you, you have put more down on this thread that most of us do in a month on the whole site, I would be amazed if one single person has read it all.

Anyway back to work...keeping you in internet money.

onthemap Posted on 24/3 11:59
re: Outed

"If you want to see what form this hatred takes just ask the police not to segregate the fans. It will of course never happen but light heated p..s taking does not lead to the levels of violence that would ensue."

You have completely lost me now?

Just trying to make the point that there is a great deal of difference between Genial p11s taking and the abuse and outright hatred that is part of our national game.
I cant stand the game but American Football provides an experience where families of rival fans have barbeques together. Over here we would barbeque each other.
It is not right, as you get older the songs that come out become just an embarrassment. It seems that a football groung is a sanctuary where swearing and abusing people in general doesnt get you locked up.
Who in their right minds wants to sing " and were fcuking dynamite" or taunt anyone regardless of whether they are home or away players about marriage breakdowns and impending jail sentences etc.
Maybe, and this is just an opinion,the lack of chants like that above would lead to larger crowds and make people who have drifted away come back to grounds.Might not be like it is today but isnt the idea to drum up support?

"I have no axe to grind with SMAC but not being listened to because a few ignorant so and sos have the same view as me is not acceptable."

If I think that SMAC has had his day it is not right to assume that because a lot of idiots jump on the same bandwagon that I agree with their reasoning. They might just not like him because he doesnt come out with the witty cracks of a Strachan.
A lot of the posters on here who are dissilusioned are hard core fans who shout and cheer as much as the next - but ultimately they feel that MFC would be better served with a new manager.

Could you care to elaborate?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 24/3 12:12
re: Outed

"Nobody has as much spare time as you, you have put more down on this thread that most of us do in a month on the whole site, I would be amazed if one single person has read it all."

You have no idea how much spare time I have but what I want to know is why it upsets you so? Are you upset because I have a considered viewpoint and don't just stick a smiley on every now and again? Well I know for a fact that one single person has read it all because I have.

"Anyway back to work...keeping you in internet money."

Keeping me in internet money? What are you talking about?

--- Post edited by Lisbonlegend on 24/3 12:29 ---

Lisbonlegend Posted on 24/3 12:28
re: Outed

"Just trying to make the point that there is a great deal of difference between Genial p11s taking and the abuse and outright hatred that is part of our national game.
I cant stand the game but American Football provides an experience where families of rival fans have barbeques together. Over here we would barbeque each other.
It is not right, as you get older the songs that come out become just an embarrassment. It seems that a football groung is a sanctuary where swearing and abusing people in general doesnt get you locked up."

Ok, that's a fair viewpoint. Not one I hold personally, I prefer passion and to use football as an outlet for my frustrations. I would be devastated if the game turned into an american football scenario. I have friends who are geordies and mackems, I was actually best man for my geordie mate and would have a barby with him anytime but that's after the match. If I wanted a relaxing day out with friends I would go to the cinema or go walking somewhere. There are other alternatives for this type of casual day, football should be held sacred, if football loses it's passion where else would I go?

"Who in their right minds wants to sing " and were fcuking dynamite" or taunt anyone regardless of whether they are home or away players about marriage breakdowns and impending jail sentences etc. "

True, it's not the greatest song in the world but does anyone really take any real notice of the lyrical content when they're singing it? If they did we'd all probably wonder why we go der der der der every match. I happen to think that these players have it easy. They get paid millions for being lucky enough to get the opportunity to play a game that most of us would do for nothing, I think they're entitled to a bit of stick but maybe sometimes it goes too far and personal attacks aren't acceptable.

"Maybe, and this is just an opinion,the lack of chants like that above would lead to larger crowds and make people who have drifted away come back to grounds."

So basically you're saying that if there's no atmosphere then more people will come? I can't agree at all, a lot of people go to enjoy a sing song and get the adrenaline flowing and if that's not there then they'll feel, what's the point? So you wold like a crowd to just sit there and watch the match like they were at teh theatre in silence? To be honest if the larger crowds don't have the full interests of the club at heart and are only really interested in a short term fix of homely entertainment then I would prefer it not too happen.

"Might not be like it is today but isnt the idea to drum up support?"

Is it support if they don't support?

"If I think that SMAC has had his day it is not right to assume that because a lot of idiots jump on the same bandwagon that I agree with their reasoning. They might just not like him because he doesnt come out with the witty cracks of a Strachan."

But he's supposed to be a football manager and not a comedian and I happen to think he's pretty good. Compared to Robson he's a godsend.

"A lot of the posters on here who are dissilusioned are hard core fans who shout and cheer as much as the next - but ultimately they feel that MFC would be better served with a new manager."

That's fair enough but I'd really like to hear some valid argument as to why they are disillusioned and I haven't heard a good argument for it yet.

--- Post edited by Lisbonlegend on 24/3 12:30 ---

Lisbonlegend Posted on 24/3 12:33
re: Outed

"If I think that SMAC has had his day it is not right to assume that because a lot of idiots jump on the same bandwagon that I agree with their reasoning. They might just not like him because he doesnt come out with the witty cracks of a Strachan."

I slightly missed the point on this one.

So do you want Mclaren out and if so, why?

onthemap Posted on 24/3 12:42
re: Outed

"Maybe, and this is just an opinion,the lack of chants like that above would lead to larger crowds and make people who have drifted away come back to grounds."

So basically you're saying that if there's no atmosphere then more people will come? I can't agree at all, a lot of people go to enjoy a sing song and get the adrenaline flowing and if that's not there then they'll feel, what's the point? So you wold like a crowd to just sit there and watch the match like they were at teh theatre in silence? To be honest if the larger crowds don't have the full interests of the club at heart and are only really interested in a short term fix of homely entertainment then I would prefer it not too happen.

Who said that they would not make as much atmosphere as the idiots that chant abuse?
Passion doesnt just exist in the world of the lout. Levels of noise are not determined by the amount of profanity used.

Smac has in my opinion had long enough to prove himself as a tactician and has not come up to scratch. Management is about getting the best from what you have and not reverting to why you are not progressing. I honestly do not believe that the players he has at his disposal are as bad as he is making out.

MyBoro Posted on 24/3 12:47
re: Outed

"I personally think that the team put out was not mentally and physically fit enough to perform in the Villa and Southampton games. A jaded reserve team basically. I don't think it was Mclarens lack of motivation or tactics, the players looked empty. The main evidence is with the older players. These players don't need Mac to motivate them, they're international players who have played at the highest level and haven't got where they are by relying on the manager to get them going. The likes of Southgate, Parlour and Hasselbaink. Southgate is a model professional and rarely has a bad game but at Southampton he was atrocious and I don't for one moment think that was due to Mclarens failure to manage him. Do you?"

It is McClarens job FFS, end of the first half we scored and started looking the better team. Inspirational half time team talk and we come out lathargic again. Seems clear that the common denominator is McClaren. No matter who plays they all look lathargic. All players need strong management and motivation, just look at how Ferguson gets his players hungry for success. We look like we need a sit down :)

Aston Villa our tactics gave them belief, something they were short on previously as they were in a slump

"As for the Norwich game, the performance was pretty good but the last 10 minutes were diabolical and the fact we ended up with Reizeger playing centre back is not an ideal situation."

So the manager got it wrong then?

"Lisbon (1st leg). I believe Mclaren probably got his tactics wrong in the first half, he probably could have gone with a 4-4-2 from the off but for me they butchered us for 10 minutes in the second half and it was game over. Also Lisbon are a very good European team so to lose 3-2 was a bad result but by no means an embarassing one."

But 0-0 at half time, again though we come out after the half time team talk and get tortured. What is SMac saying in these half time talks. About time he started earning his big bucks or lets get rid.

skiprat Posted on 24/3 12:51
re: Outed

I've just read it all Maverick and to be fair, even though the lad has gone a bit overboard at times, he has absolutely blown you out of the water to the point where you've just personally attacked him because you can't back up anything you say on here about McClaren.

I'd like to point out Sas' non response to the question/statement he's had pointed out to him as well.

With regards to the thread. There can be a middle ground, not everyone who doesn't agree with the boo boys has to instantly be in direct correlation to that and want to have McClaren's babies. There are probably more people like myself than any other "group". I'm happy with what McClaren has done in the last 4 years, although these last few months have been very annoying but all of that cannot be attributed to McClaren. We've had terrible luck this season, a bad luck that no other team have had to deal with to the same extent.

Once we get players back and carry it on into next season with a few more signings then we have a much better chance to do well and to keep on progressing, if we can keep the team injury free.

There is no way McClaren should be sacked and there are certainly no better replacements around, as was pointed out in the thread yesterday.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 24/3 13:01
re: Outed

"Maybe, and this is just an opinion,the lack of chants like that above would lead to larger crowds and make people who have drifted away come back to grounds."

So basically you're saying that if there's no atmosphere then more people will come? I can't agree at all, a lot of people go to enjoy a sing song and get the adrenaline flowing and if that's not there then they'll feel, what's the point? So you wold like a crowd to just sit there and watch the match like they were at teh theatre in silence? To be honest if the larger crowds don't have the full interests of the club at heart and are only really interested in a short term fix of homely entertainment then I would prefer it not too happen.

Who said that they would not make as much atmosphere as the idiots that chant abuse?
"Passion doesnt just exist in the world of the lout."

So you believe that the people who come to games and sing are louts? I for one am not a lout.

"Levels of noise are not determined by the amount of profanity used."

But not all the sings we sing are profane.

"Smac has in my opinion had long enough to prove himself as a tactician and has not come up to scratch."

Maclaren is still learning his trade and has tried things which haven't come off, I agree. These are fairly noticable because they aren't what the supporters generally feel is right. I have often felt that maybe he should have played a certain way or played a different team. Who knows whether we would have been proved right. Without trying these things he will never progress as a manager. His brief is to win matches but most supporters just want short term entertainment. To get to where we want to be he will have to make mistakes, it's just life. I think that generally he learns from his mistakes. One he stops learning from his mistakes then I will agree with you.

"Management is about getting the best from what you have and not reverting to why you are not progressing. I honestly do not believe that the players he has at his disposal are as bad as he is making out."

Individually the players have strengths but as a unit they are awful. There are too many players lacking in too many areas. My feeling is that we have lost all the physically strong players we have in the team and as a result are not able to dictate games like we did in the first half of the season. Losing the spine of Boateng, Viduka, Ehiogu (although I know he didn't play in the first half of the season), Riggott and Parlour leaves us with a very soft centre. In that respect I think the group of players he is left with are just not good enough as a team. I can't help but think that Mclaren has done all he can with this group, tried to alter formations to counter our weaknesses etc. but the fact is we need our strength back on the field.

MyBoro Posted on 24/3 13:16
re: Outed

LISBON "Individually the players have strengths but as a unit they are awful."

Nail on head, some of us see this as the managers failing and therfore belive we would progress better without him. You obviously do not. Unfortunately to argue every single point makes you appear less than objective. We all know not all is well at the moment, this has led some to lose belief in SMac.

If you believe in something it is actually human nature to bias your view of events to fit. It is only when the events clearly don't fit that your belief is altered.

My belief that SMac is good enough no longer exists, many are wavering about this while others like yourself still have unwavering faith in his ability

I do agree with Geordie "Vickers" that the last 8 games are pivotal. Produce the goods and get results and this was just a blip

Fail to finish the season well and its time to move on.

boro_Maverick Posted on 24/3 13:24
re: Outed

I read the first line of skiprat's post and that was all, I think you will find I insulted him as this whole thread was started by insulting myself and one other, he hasn't in anyway upset me, as I haven't read any of it, anybody that players the cyber hard man is a bit of a joke really.

I always back up my argument about smacÖhis league record and signings say it all..

The mess we will be in next season is all down to smac.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 24/3 13:35
re: Outed

"It is McClarens job FFS,"

FFS?

"end of the first half we scored and started looking the better team. Inspirational half time team talk and we come out lathargic again."

I have to completely disagree. We looked leggy from the very first minute but still carved out a couple of decent opportunities which were spurned. They scored and then we managed to get back into the game via a goalkeeping error. The second half we came out and started slowly again but then built up a head of steam, the crowd came to life and then wallop, they catch us on the break and we had nothing left in the tank to get back into the game before they put us out of our misery. Absolutely nothing to do with a half time team talk.

"Seems clear that the common denominator is McClaren."

What a pile of tosh.

"No matter who plays they all look lathargic."

Another load of rubbish. I've seen many excellent individual performances this season.

"All players need strong management and motivation, just look at how Ferguson gets his players hungry for success. We look like we need a sit down :)"

No, all players don't need strong management and motivation. That's also a load of rubbish. I for one don't. I can't imagine Roy Keane does or Patrick Viera either. There are various forms of motivation and it doesn't all come from Steve Mclaren. I also think that we don't have a problem with motivation. I think the team always gives 100% whetehr they play well or not.

"Aston Villa our tactics gave them belief, something they were short on previously as they were in a slump"

I think Mclaren got his tactics wrong against Villa but I think individually we were sluggish. Parlour in particular had a mare and Downing also. Nothing to do with tactics, they were just downright poor.

"As for the Norwich game, the performance was pretty good but the last 10 minutes were diabolical and the fact we ended up with Reizeger playing centre back is not an ideal situation."

"So the manager got it wrong then?"

No, we had no fit centre backs, so he tried to do what he thought was best out of necessity.

"(Lisbon home leg)But 0-0 at half time, again though we come out after the half time team talk and get tortured. What is SMac saying in these half time talks. About time he started earning his big bucks or lets get rid. "

Again, why do you believe that the half time team talk was the reason we got beat!! Do you know what he said? What are these magical words you can utter at half time which makes you win every game? Please enlighten me to the spiritually uplifting way of the half time team talk. Do you think the players run about on the pitch with the managers words circling round there brains? Oh I think Steve said the wrong thing, oops, there goes another couple of goals. Damn.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 24/3 13:39
re: Outed

"I read the first line of skiprat's post and that was all, I think you will find I insulted him as this whole thread was started by insulting myself and one other, he hasn't in anyway upset me, as I haven't read any of it, anybody that players the cyber hard man is a bit of a joke really."

You haven't read any of it? So how have you managed to reply? I believe you read skiprats entire post. Liar. Cyber hard man? Hmmmm.....

"I always back up my argument about smacand#8230;his league record and signings say it all.."

I'm sorry but you don't have an argument, it's called a grudge.

"The mess we will be in next season is all down to smac."

What do you constitute as a mess?

sasboro Posted on 24/3 13:41
re: Outed

"Maclaren is still learning his trade and has tried things which haven't come off, I agree."

this is an issue cos the same thing was said about robson up until the day before he was sacked..eventually there has to come a point when he has enough expereince to become good enough. MFC tend to get manager in that are inexperienced and then when things go t1ts up the learning curve gets brought out. how many years do you give smac until you stop saying he is stil llearning

smac is very fortunate in that he made the step straight from coaching into a mangement job with a big transfer budget. A sort of silver spoon in his mouth. His reputationw as as a coach and not as a manager. his man management skills are questionable. maybe he needed to go to a lower league team with no cahs to spend and learn his trade at boro instead of at mfc.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 24/3 13:42
re: Outed

"I've just read it all Maverick and to be fair, even though the lad has gone a bit overboard at times, he has absolutely blown you out of the water to the point where you've just personally attacked him because you can't back up anything you say on here about McClaren."

Agree

"I'd like to point out Sas' non response to the question/statement he's had pointed out to him as well."

Agree

"With regards to the thread. There can be a middle ground, not everyone who doesn't agree with the boo boys has to instantly be in direct correlation to that and want to have McClaren's babies. "

Agree

"There are probably more people like myself than any other "group". I'm happy with what McClaren has done in the last 4 years, although these last few months have been very annoying but all of that cannot be attributed to McClaren. We've had terrible luck this season, a bad luck that no other team have had to deal with to the same extent."

Agree

"Once we get players back and carry it on into next season with a few more signings then we have a much better chance to do well and to keep on progressing, if we can keep the team injury free."

Agree

"There is no way McClaren should be sacked and there are certainly no better replacements around, as was pointed out in the thread yesterday."

Agree.

Yep, I agree wholeheartedly with you Skiprat. Spot on.

boroboy75 Posted on 24/3 13:46
re: Outed

Is it just me, or does anyone else find it patronisingly pompous when someone feels the need to constantly quote what the previous poster has said?

sasboro Posted on 24/3 13:47
re: Outed

lisbonlegend?(forgot your old username) and skiprat,

i'm tired of this thread cos too much bollox and waffle. bit like mp's. you need to cut out the waffle and keep things to the point and blunt. so it can be read in black and white. i think i lost interest in this thread at about post 40..half of them are by lisbonlegend. he's obviously a journalist cos he's a very fast typer and has plenty of time on his hands

red_rebel Posted on 24/3 13:49
re: Outed

"Is it just me, or does anyone else find it patronisingly pompous when someone feels the need to constantly quote what the previous poster has said?"

Agree

Lisbonlegend Posted on 24/3 13:54
re: Outed

LISBON "Individually the players have strengths but as a unit they are awful."

"Nail on head, some of us see this as the managers failing and therfore belive we would progress better without him."

But if you actually take the time to think about it for a moment you will realise that it is not Mclarens chosen side but one that is forced on him due to having no actual alternatives.

"Unfortunately to argue every single point makes you appear less than objective."

Why so?

"We all know not all is well at the moment, this has led some to lose belief in SMac."

Fair point.

"If you believe in something it is actually human nature to bias your view of events to fit. It is only when the events clearly don't fit that your belief is altered."

So? What's your point? I have a massive argument as to why Mclaren should stay. It's not cos I like his corned beef cheeks or cos he once smiled at me. No it's because he is doing a very good job. It's not bias but reality.

"My belief that SMac is good enough no longer exists, many are wavering about this while others like yourself still have unwavering faith in his ability"

You say you believe he's not good enough but you don't actually say why.

"I do agree with Geordie "Vickers" that the last 8 games are pivotal. Produce the goods and get results and this was just a blip"

Possibly but it is all dependent on whether he gets to play the players he bought for the club or whether he has to rely on players like Job and Nemeth whom Robson brought to the club. Those 2 have missed a bagful of chances in teh last few games and yet this is probably all down to Mclaren aswell.

"Fail to finish the season well and its time to move on."

Maclaren has been forced to blood his entire squad plus the majority of last seasons youth team. You should really take these facts into account because it's nothing to do with management. Any manager given the same group of players over the last couple of months would struggle to string results together. He will get all the players fit for next season plus any signings we make in the summer and we will have a tremendous team capable of achieving our European objectives. Clearing out the deadwood in the process. Get rid of him and we go back to square one.

skiprat Posted on 24/3 13:56
re: Outed

So what you're saying Maverick, is that should you come across a post, like mine that challenges your, what seem like quite weak beliefs about McClaren, then you're just going to do a sort of stick your fingers in your ears and not listen to any other response?

Quite the level of maturity you have there, about the same level as a poster who posts up a topic to claim the invalidity of someones 100+ topic.

While you are on about McClaren's signings, may I point you in this direction of players names and let's see what conclusion you come to...

Rami Shaaban
Alex Manninger
Igor Stepanovs
Francis Jeffers
Oleg Luzhny
Giles Grimandi
Arturo Lupoli

Lisbonlegend Posted on 24/3 13:57
re: Outed

"Is it just me, or does anyone else find it patronisingly pompous when someone feels the need to constantly quote what the previous poster has said?"

Fair enough, This shall be the last quote on the thread, I was just trying to answer each point that people made but it's getting on my t*ts aswell. I'll just get straight to the point. As for being patronisingly pompous, not intended.

But thinking about it, how will you have a clue who I'm replying to if I don't do it this way?

--- Post edited by Lisbonlegend on 24/3 13:59 ---

sasboro Posted on 24/3 14:02
re: Outed

"LISBON "Individually the players have strengths but as a unit they are awful.""

""Nail on head, some of us see this as the managers failing and therfore belive we would progress better without him.""

"But if you actually take the time to think about it for a moment you will realise that it is not Mclarens chosen side but one that is forced on him due to having no actual alternatives."

but over 4 years his record is not impressive and players have not been injured for 4 seasons

""Unfortunately to argue every single point makes you appear less than objective.""

"Why so?"

?

""We all know not all is well at the moment, this has led some to lose belief in SMac.""

"Fair point."
?

""If you believe in something it is actually human nature to bias your view of events to fit. It is only when the events clearly don't fit that your belief is altered.""

"So? What's your point? I have a massive argument as to why Mclaren should stay. It's not cos I like his corned beef cheeks or cos he once smiled at me. No it's because he is doing a very good job. It's not bias but reality."

people cant think with a clear head when they are emotionally attached to somethi=ng. bit like after being dumped you always think you have achance of getting back together,

""My belief that SMac is good enough no longer exists, many are wavering about this while others like yourself still have unwavering faith in his ability""

"You say you believe he's not good enough but you don't actually say why."

his record is not impressive over 4 seasons. he has excuses but no solutions

""I do agree with Geordie "Vickers" that the last 8 games are pivotal. Produce the goods and get results and this was just a blip""

"Possibly but it is all dependent on whether he gets to play the players he bought for the club or whether he has to rely on players like Job and Nemeth whom Robson brought to the club. Those 2 have missed a bagful of chances in teh last few games and yet this is probably all down to Mclaren aswell."

smac decided to give job a new contract in the summer, he could sell nemeth like he sold juninho and ricketts or shipped him out like massimo

""Fail to finish the season well and its time to move on.""

"Maclaren has been forced to blood his entire squad plus the majority of last seasons youth team. You should really take these facts into account because it's nothing to do with management. Any manager given the same group of players over the last couple of months would struggle to string results together. He will get all the players fit for next season plus any signings we make in the summer and we will have a tremendous team capable of achieving our European objectives. Clearing out the deadwood in the process. Get rid of him and we go back to square one."

there is a lot of deadwood to clear out this summer,

Scrote Posted on 24/3 14:03
re: Outed

sas - "i think i lost interest in this thread at about post 40"

are you sure you didn't lose interest when you were asked a direct question you didn't want to answer??

and in case you "haven't read that bit" here it is:


------------------------------------
uncle_harry Posted on 23/3 18:25
re: Outed

So SasBoro when you say 'i have never said sack him or had a go at him personally.' are you including the bit on sunday when you said you wanted to 'spit in his face' you meant that in the non personal sense right?

fatharrywhite Posted on 24/3 14:03
re: Outed

while you're at it skiprat, maybe add

taibi
bellion
djemba djemba
kleberson

to that list.

I defy anyone to name a manager who has never made a mistake in the transfer market. even with McClaren the only one i questioned at the time was ricketts. the others, in hindsight, were mistakes..

sasboro Posted on 24/3 14:05
re: Outed

scrote, it was not me who said spit in his face. i dont drop debates down to that level. was another username. ithink you need to check back and see who actually posted it.

Freedom_Bear Posted on 24/3 14:05
re: Outed

"There is no way McClaren should be sacked and there are certainly no better replacements around, as was pointed out in the thread yesterday."

The bear would highlight that this is just a matter of opinion.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 24/3 14:06
re: Outed

SASBORO

What a load of sh**e. Robson was on a severely downward slope which left us at the bottom of the table. We were 5th in the table til we hit an injury crisis and now we're 9th!!

Gibson is a very shrewd man and his judgement in bringing Mclaren in was justified as we have a trophy in our cabinet and a European experience under our belts.

If you're bored of the thread then why are you contributing (if you can call it that). Everything I say is in black and white, basically you con't have an argument.

skiprat Posted on 24/3 14:08
re: Outed

As I said yesterday Bear, the names that were put about, which were REALISTIC names that would come to Boro, would at best, do a slightly marginally better job than McClaren, at best.

Yes it is my opinion, but I just don't see a big list of massive names to take us to the next level (Champions League qualifiers?), but a list of very similar managers to McClaren, with a very similar result from games managed.

Scrote Posted on 24/3 14:10
re: Outed

smac had us in the top six for most of the season and we went on a run in europe that got us to the last 16

name one other manager who has done that this season who we would be able to realistically sign in place of smac

sasboro Posted on 24/3 14:11
re: Outed

"What a load of sh**e. Robson was on a severely downward slope which left us at the bottom of the table. We were 5th in the table til we hit an injury crisis and now we're 9th!!"

9th wont get us into europe which is gibson is expecting. when they have their end of season meeting will gibson fall for the tiredness and injuries excuse? I remember under rioch being 5th once!

"Gibson is a very shrewd man and his judgement in bringing Mclaren in was justified as we have a trophy in our cabinet and a European experience under our belts. "

exactly, he has high standards and is probably expecting a better season



"If you're bored of the thread then why are you contributing (if you can call it that). Everything I say is in black and white, basically you con't have an argument."

keep things simple and stop waffling and then more people will join in your thread, also stop reply to your own threads and give people time to respond

souness scrote

--- Post edited by sasboro on 24/3 14:12 ---

fatharrywhite Posted on 24/3 14:16
re: Outed

we may well have been 5th under rioch..but i'll bet any money you want it was in the first 5-10 games of the season. when was the last time we were still in with a very realistic chance of qualifying for europe with 8 games to go....?

sasboro Posted on 24/3 14:18
re: Outed

it's about getting into europe and not nearly getting into europe.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 24/3 14:19
re: Outed

SASBORO

His 4 year record is not accurate because the team he inherited was not his.

I am emotionally attached to MFC, if Mac is doing a good job he gets my vote if not, he's out. I wouldn't know SAS, I have never been dumped you'll have to tell me what it's like.

You have excuses but no solutions.
There is no point getting riud of players unless you have the funds to replace them. He got rid of Massimo and Ricketts this season and I think next will be Job and Nemeth.

So who is all this deadwood we have to clear?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 24/3 14:21
re: Outed

Mclaren did get us into Europe and has a good chance of getting us there again this season. Or did you miss that?

How many other Boro managers have got us into Europe?

fatharrywhite Posted on 24/3 14:24
re: Outed

you were implying that McClaren's achievements are no better than riochs cos he too got us to 5th in the league...albeit after about 5-10 games when no one gives a toss

Scrote Posted on 24/3 14:25
re: Outed

sas - when you learn how to read you might realise that souness hasn't had his sides in the top six for most of the season

try again

Lisbonlegend Posted on 24/3 14:26
re: Outed

SASBORO
9th wont get us into europe but the season doesn't finish in March.

I don't think losing 10 players is an excuse. It is a reason. Rioch was an excellent manager. One of the greatest in our history.

This has been a better season than last. The best season in our history thus far if you take our European adventure into account and our league position averaged out over the season.

I can't make things simple enough for you and it's not my fault you can't type.

Scrote Posted on 24/3 14:28
re: Outed

"9th wont get us into europe which is gibson is expecting." (sic)

err - no it isn't - gibson made it quite clear what he was expecting this season and getting into europe again would be a bonus not a pre-requisite for smac keeping his job

try again

sasboro Posted on 24/3 14:30
re: Outed

lisonleg-gend can you stop replying to your posts, it's getting a bit annoying and doesn t keep the flow on the thread right. give yourself 10 minutes between posts..it is not a competition to reach 200 and a night out with steve mac as a prize

"His 4 year record is not accurate because the team he inherited was not his."

but he has had 4 seasons to sort it out. should we give him 10 seasons?

"I am emotionally attached to MFC, if Mac is doing a good job he gets my vote if not, he's out. I wouldn't know SAS, I have never been dumped you'll have to tell me what it's like."

so you never had a girlfriend then or had the bottle to chat one up? too ugly i guess

"You have excuses but no solutions.
There is no point getting riud of players unless you have the funds to replace them. He got rid of Massimo and Ricketts this season and I think next will be Job and Nemeth."

so you keep deadwood even if they are not good enough? there are plenty of replacemants around not world class but better than most of our strikers



"So who is all this deadwood we have to clear?"

ugo,rieziger,cooper( to oold), nemeth,job,mendieta,christie, ,massimo as examples

scrote, so you think gibson is not expecting european qualification? he has given smac about 30-40m to spend in 4 years so plenty of time to progress the club more than from 14th to 9th-11th finish

--- Post edited by sasboro on 24/3 14:31 ---

fatharrywhite Posted on 24/3 14:39
re: Outed

i've never understood this 'deadwood' issue. care to explain just why it is a problem??

if we didnt have a good team and needed to get shot to bring better players in then you might have a point. the fact we have a very good crop of kids coming through makes this a total non issue IMO.

sasboro Posted on 24/3 14:42
re: Outed

deadwood stops other players coming through particularly hinders young players progress, makes them become unsettled and want to move. Plus they take up a lot of wages, which could be spent on better players

Scrote Posted on 24/3 14:43
re: Outed

as has been pointed out above sas - smac has qualified for europe over his 4 years - hes also won a trophy in case you missed that as well

if we are just talking about this season then NO - gibson did not mention qualifying for europe when he gave his pre-season interview as to what his targets were

he said it would be good to get back in but he thinks we shold be looking to qualify every few seasons to be making progress

i can't be bothered digging out the full quote 'cos you will just ignore it as usual

Lisbonlegend Posted on 24/3 14:47
re: Outed

SASBORO
Oh I'm very sorry, I'll slow myself down to your physical and mental level then to make it easier for you.

"but he has had 4 seasons to sort it out. should we give him 10 seasons?"

No Gibson has given him 5 years and he's the man that counts. Also winning a trophy and qualifying for Europe is more than an ample return. What do you think?

"so you never had a girlfriend then or had the bottle to chat one up? too ugly i guess"

Personal insults. tut tut. Yes I have a girlfriend. My point was that I've never been dumped.

"so you keep deadwood even if they are not good enough? there are plenty of replacemants around not world class but better than most of our strikers"

They are good enough to play a bit part in the team but not play regularly. We moved 2 strikers on and signed 2 strikers at teh start of the season. It's a natural progression. You don't jsut get rid of 5 strikers and sign 5 more. Also it's not financially viable to do that in one go.

Ugo has been a great signing for Boro up until this season, Cooper is a legend, Mendieta was also a good signing. Nemeth and Job will be moved on and possibly massimo. Christie has been incredibly unfortunate.

Was that slow enough for you???

skiprat Posted on 24/3 14:47
re: Outed

How are Christie, Reizeger, Ugo, Mendy deadwood?

Cooper cannot be included, as he isn't getting in the way of anybody coming in and he will hopefully be moved into a coaches role very soon. Plsu I would say having someone like him in actually does the kids a LOT better because of his experience.

Job and Nemeth I will agree that we have to get rid of them, but what are we supposed to do, if no-one wants to buy Nemeth and pay his 30k wages, we will still keep hold of him for this season until his contract runs out as we have no other real choice.

sasboro Posted on 24/3 14:48
re: Outed

the club is geared up for europe now, we have signed players witht he european expereince for that.

Dont worry i'm not expecting you to dig up any quotes.

but i remember gibson being disappointed with the league finish last season. So way things are at the moment we wont improve much, so again he will be disappointed and may question why no imrpovement. the talk form the club all season has been about getting back into europe and not sitting around mid table

fatharrywhite Posted on 24/3 14:49
re: Outed

so just who have massimo, christie, ugo, cooper, mendieta, job and nemeth kept out of the side this season???

reizeger is the only one i'll give you but the fact that the rest of those listed have either been injured most of the season or have only came in when others have been injured seems to negate your argument some what?

it's alright saying offload them but if they are on good wages and under contract they have no incentive to leave. we only managed to get shot of ricketts cos we are still supposed to be paying some of his wages..

Lisbonlegend Posted on 24/3 14:59
re: Outed

SASBORO.

Your arguments are flimsy and your motives are questionable. You have a personal vendetta against Maclaren backed up by absolutely no argument whatsoever except that you don't like him.

I am going to leave it at that because it's pointless arguing with someone who has no comprehension of the game of football or the workings of a football club. I have had more sense out of my 4 year old nephew in 5 minutes than I have in 2 days talking to you.

I don't know what you hope to gain by being so antimac, if he is sacked will that give you smug satisfaction? Then who will you move onto? Boateng cos you don't liek his haircut or maybe Southgate for wearing the wrong aftershave.

I don't love Mac, far from it. He makes mistakes, picks wrong players and formations (IMO) but overall he has brought us a magnificent cup final win and European football for the first time in the clubs history. We have hit a difficult patch due to terrible bad fortune and we will get through it. If he is allowed to carry on his rebuilding into his 5th year I'm pretty sure we will have achieved even more and have a great team to be proud of. If not then at least he will have left us with a tremendous base, a well run club, a great set of youngsters that he's allowed to blossom and happy memories that will live with me forever.

If and when you find a sensible argument, which I very much doubt, I will respond but I'm sick of wasting my time talking to someone who lives in a dream world.

onthemap Posted on 24/3 15:00
re: Outed

Worth noting that at the start of the season a lot was said about champions league being a possibility.
Now a lot is being said about us being lucky to have the 42 points in the bag.

sasboro Posted on 24/3 15:08
re: Outed

no worries lisbonlegend,
i'll leave your thread also and see if you cant resist getting it upto 200 and you put on more replies

Lisbonlegend Posted on 24/3 15:20
re: Outed

Does anyone know what the average attendances have been for Boro over the last 4 years?

skiprat Posted on 24/3 15:25
re: Outed

I know that this seasons average is up on last years so far.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 24/3 15:27
re: Outed

That in itself must be a certain measure of a managers success.

OPEO Posted on 24/3 15:28
re: Outed

Legend, your last post is the best yet as it contains very few words. Thanks.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 24/3 15:30
re: Outed

:-)

OPEO Posted on 24/3 15:32
re: Outed

In answer to your question try googling Boro stats.

skiprat Posted on 24/3 16:00
re: Outed

2003-2004: 30.398 (Premier League)
2002-2003: 31,025 (Premier League)
2001-2002: 28,459 (Premier League)

MyBoro Posted on 24/3 16:08
re: Outed

So you ask for reasons and when given just reply with Tosh and rubbish. You keep bleating on about individual performances, but football is a team game.

The manager is responsible for the team. Our performances IMO are not good enough. The games we don't compete in and fight for every ball has cost us dearly.

Not assembling a big enough squad at the start of the season, must be down to the manager. The quality of player available - surely his responsibility.

Without Downing, we would be even worse off this year yet he was only accommodated following injury. The style is turgid, the recent results unacceptable.

As for the half time words of wisdom, I have no idea what he says - same as you. I do however see it often makes us no better and far more worring of late we seem to get worse.

We pay all thier wages and all they have to do is play footall is it too much to ask that they at least try to compete for 90 minutes. many other teams seem to manage

fatharrywhite Posted on 24/3 16:18
re: Outed

"As for the half time words of wisdom, I have no idea what he says - same as you. I do however see it often makes us no better and far more worring of late we seem to get worse"

never left the facts get in the way of a good argument but our 1st half form would put us 10th in the table, our 2nd half form would put us 5th...

edit - to further pour cold water on this argument. of the 44 goals we've scored 31 have come in the 2nd half

--- Post edited by fatharrywhite on 24/3 16:20 ---

Link: stats

Scrote Posted on 24/3 16:23
re: Outed

when we were flying the biggest moan seemed to be that we were too cautious in the first half and only ever got going in the second - how do you reconcile this with your assertion that smac can't give a decent half time team talk

also the southampton game turned on their second goal - up until that point there had only been one team in it for the second half - the difference then was basically tiredness and a lack of ability from our two main uninjured "strikers"

at what point from the ball being passed to the striker missing a sitter does the manager get involved to such a degree that the miss becomes his fault??

MyBoro Posted on 24/3 16:46
re: Outed

In the first five games this season we gained 8 more points in the second half compared to the first. Scoring 9 of our 11 goals in the second half.

Downing was the catalyst when coming on as sub, but if you want to believe it was SM's team talk fine.

Not sure if we ever scored a goal at home while Mendi was on the pitch. Can someone help on that?

Gillandi Posted on 24/3 17:34
re: Outed

"You keep bleating on about individual performances, but football is a team game."

"Downing was the catalyst when coming on as sub, but if you want to believe it was SM's team talk fine."

Bit of a contradiction here MyBoro?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 24/3 17:46
re: Outed

Myboro
"So you ask for reasons and when given just reply with Tosh and rubbish. You keep bleating on about individual performances, but football is a team game."

IMO a half time team talk against Southampton had very little impact on the course of the game. The team looked tired from the off, I've never seen Southgate play so poorly and Bolo give the ball away so easily from the first whistle to the last. What differecne are a few words from the manager going to make. Of course football is a team game but individuals need toperform within that team. IMO your reasons were rubbish and unrealistic so I said so.

"The manager is responsible for the team. Our performances IMO are not good enough. The games we don't compete in and fight for every ball has cost us dearly."

I think we do fight for every ball but the team available to the manager due to injury is simply not good enough. Watch the difference when Boateng is back in the team. Hopefully Viduka aswell.

"Not assembling a big enough squad at the start of the season, must be down to the manager. The quality of player available - surely his responsibility."

How big does a squad have to be? Do you disrrupt team harmony by building an enormous squad where most of the players are pi**ed off because they're saton the bench? Also you don't build a premiership squad overnight. It will probably take 5 years plus to assemble the type of squad needed to qualify for the champions league. And remember that is what we were talking about util a few weeks ago.

"Without Downing, we would be even worse off this year yet he was only accommodated following injury. The style is turgid, the recent results unacceptable."

True, Downing is our main attacking threat but Bolo is a very good player and it's up to the manager to decide on Bolo or Downing. Downing needed to wait for his chance and he took it.

"As for the half time words of wisdom, I have no idea what he says - same as you. I do however see it often makes us no better and far more worring of late we seem to get worse."

We have actually score a vast majority of our goals in the second half so this is nonsense.

"We pay all thier wages and all they have to do is play footall is it too much to ask that they at least try to compete for 90 minutes. many other teams seem to manage"

Again we do compete, I don't see a lack of motivation, simply a team that is struggling without the key players that mclaren brought in.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 24/3 17:59
re: Outed

2004-2005: 31,733 (Premier league)
2003-2004: 30,398 (Premier League)
2002-2003: 31,025 (Premier League)
2001-2002: 28,459 (Premier League)

So Mclarens reign has also seen a rise in attendances, A rise of over 3,000 since his first season in charge which also represents progress. Add to this our increased shirt sales which has bucked the national trend, our first ever trophy, our first ever European campaign and the stats are starting to heavily weigh in Mclaren's favour. These important statistics also show that overall the fans are behind Mclaren but are disappointed by the current bad run.

Also the anti Mclaren group, of which I think is a very small number, do not take into account that the UEFA cup campaign has had a detrimental effect on our season. It's the first time this group format has been used and it's noticeable that Newcastle are below us in the table aswell.

--- Post edited by Lisbonlegend on 24/3 18:01 ---

karembeu_ca Posted on 24/3 18:03
re: Outed

I think the Toon problems were more to do with the Sir Bobby and Souness thing, Bellamy, and a LOT to do with Shearer's injury. Also, they now have a few more decent defenders in - or shoud lI say have SOME decent defenders in.

No coincidence they improved once Shearer came back, Bellamy left, and Souness was able to bring in some players.

fatharrywhite Posted on 24/3 18:09
re: Outed

myboro - your an absolute joke. the facts show that for the WHOLE season our 2nd half performances have been better than our 1st half performances. your theory about half time team talks is, quite frankly, complete bollox. just admit you're totally wrong on that point..

Lisbonlegend Posted on 24/3 18:11
re: Outed

2004-2005 9th (UEFA cup campaign) 8 games left
2003-2004 11th (Carling cup winners)
2002-2003 11th
2001-2002 12th (FA cup semi final)
2000-2001 14th

So after some slow progress in the first couple of seasons whilst bringing in his own players we've won a trophy and will this season, hopefully, gain our highest premiership finish and points tally despite a disatrous injury crisis. IMO It takes around 5 years to build a Champions league chasing team so next seaeon is the acid test regardless of how this season pans out.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 24/3 18:20
re: Outed

I agree that the Toon problems were mostly of their own making but I also think that they never look as fresh after a UEFA cup game and they have a few years more experience on that front than us.

Do you believe the impact of one player, Shearer, could have such a big impact? IYO Could the same thing also be said about our own man of steel, Georgie Boateng?

karembeu_ca Posted on 24/3 18:22
re: Outed

As I said earlier in this thread (I think this one?) isn't this the only sustained forward progress in YEARS for Boro?

Going 3rd to 1st Div was huge leaps up the Football League, but when you get this high up the leagues, the increases don't tend to be big leaps, more like consolidation and small movements.

That is what I see us doing, making small, incremental movements in the right direction. You need someone like Abramovic to make big increases, and we don't have that.

karembeu_ca Posted on 24/3 18:24
re: Outed

It is a lot easier to go backwards this fa rup than move forward, look at the teams that got close to going on to the next level, and see what happened, Brum, Leeds, and Sunderland of late. They all got into or close to the top 6, Mackems did 7th for 2 consecitive years didn't they?

Making the next move is difficult, and will not be easy, if we can even do it.

MyBoro Posted on 24/3 18:34
re: Outed

harry - look at the start of the season. we performed better when Downing came on.

1st ten games this year we were better 6 times in the second half. Last 10 games we have only been better once. That is on your comparison of first half result to second half result.

We ended the first half in charge against Southampton. We were then off the pace and poor in the second half. Only Nemeth and Doriva seemed bothered but you need the whole team to be working together and that IS the managers job.

Big eight games coming up wether you like it or not. Very vocal dissapproval at the end of the Southampton game lets hope there's no more repeat performances.

Oh sorry, according to Lisbon we played well and were the better team just a shame about tiredness and injuries.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 24/3 18:50
re: Outed

We aren't a one man team (Downing) but it was Mclaren who brought him on so he has to take the credit for the excellent sunstitution.

Nemeth was terrible against Southampton. Also you would sack the manager because his half time team talk against Southampton wasn't up to scratch yet the stats prove without any doubt that we perform better in the second half of games. You would be laughed out of court if you went in with that argument.

It is a big 8 games. Hopefully with a more representative team from Mclarens reign and the snipers shall be silenced and then they can all come on and apologise for being so daft.

"Oh sorry, according to Lisbon we played well and were the better team just a shame about tiredness and injuries."

Who said we played well??? We were rubbish and that is what I said so stop making things up. The point I make is that there are many factors which affect the performance of a team and individuals within that team. A great number of those factors are not within the managers control but you seem unable to comprehend this or simply don't want to acknowledge this.

skiprat Posted on 24/3 18:53
re: Outed

MyBoro, you can also aruge that with a decent number of the squad available to pick from, Mendieta for example, we could have give Downing a rest and he would not have suffered the terrible form he's been in since his first England game.

fatharrywhite Posted on 24/3 18:54
re: Outed

Downing was only sub for maybe the first 7 or 8 games. when he started the games we still played better 2nd half. Admit, on this point, that you have it totally wrong. we have scored over twice as many goals in the 2nd half this season....this isnt all to do with downing coming on.

karembeu_ca Posted on 24/3 18:59
re: Outed

did I get the double tun up?

bugger, farry beat me to it

--- Post edited by karembeu_ca on 24/3 19:00 ---

Scrote Posted on 24/3 23:16
re: Outed

too slow again


maybe its the time difference


and wrt second half against southampton - we were well on top until they scored their second - that took the wind out of our sails and we never recovered - if our second string strikers had converted earlier chances we'd have won easily

Lisbonlegend Posted on 25/3 0:46
re: Outed

Keith Lamb said

"I'd also like to thank the fans, who have enhanced the reputation of this football club. Perhaps the most lasting memory will be after the game when the portuguese fans stayed behind to applaud our fans. Their president said he'd never seen such undying support for a team that had just lost a football match"

Oh yes we were good. Pride just doesn't seem to sum it up.

--- Post edited by Lisbonlegend on 25/3 0:52 ---

Lisbonlegend Posted on 29/12 12:30
re: Outed