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ridsdale Posted on 6/4 0:57
I hope when Maggie dies,

They parade her body round, just like they done with the pope's

I want to make sure she really is dead. The bitch.

ferencpuskas Posted on 6/4 0:58
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

She's immortal.

Coleraine_boro Posted on 6/4 0:58
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

she wasn't that bad was she?

ridsdale Posted on 6/4 1:00
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Yes, she fcuking was/is.



May she rot in hell the cow.

Grumpy_Paul Posted on 6/4 1:01
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Ouch ridsdale, that's harsh by any standards.
she did some good by curbing the powers of the crazies in the unions, unfortunately it has swung too much the other way.
A sense of balance is what is needed but has not been achieved

Coleraine_boro Posted on 6/4 1:01
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

what did she ever do on you.why do you not like her?

the_lodger Posted on 6/4 1:01
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Were having a street party when she pops it. What a jolly time we will have.

uncle_harry Posted on 6/4 1:03
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

yup - she inspired an elvis costello song called tramp the dirt down which he and many others take literally

Im absolutely convinced my mother would have had 5 more years of life if Thatcher had not come to power, an entirely unfeeling person who only couldnt control her emotion of tearful self pity on the day the tories kicked her out

ridsdale Posted on 6/4 1:03
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

If you even need to ask that question, then you do not understand
what a cow she was..............

ridsdale Posted on 6/4 1:05
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Yep, bring back the witch trials.

Coleraine_boro Posted on 6/4 1:05
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

wasn't it thatcher who tried to bring in poll tax.would i be right in saying that? i live across the water.we thankfully never had poll tax forced on us.

ferencpuskas Posted on 6/4 1:08
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Yeah, then them looneys smashed London to bits.

ridsdale Posted on 6/4 1:10
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

The poll tax was one of many extreme anti-working class moves the
lady thought was a good idea.

Her special needs son has just been refused entry to the USA.

Another example of the 'special relationship' between the USA
and the UK.

neiltrodden Posted on 6/4 1:11
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

In 1987, my parents moved from their small town house to a place in Acklam. 25,000. The interest rates went up to the point that my parents were paying 100 extra per month in the end.

We all know there are risks with interest rates but things went crazy. We had to live with a few years of serious tension in our house due to not knowing how things could go. Imagine you bought a house and the interest rates went up 10%. Won't happenn now Labour handed control over to the BOE. At least now interet rates are decided for economical reason rather than reserved for pre-election cuts.

neiltrodden Posted on 6/4 1:14
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Oh, yeah. And she recently bailed her son out of doing bird for his part in trying to overthrough a government. What a nice lot.

Coleraine_boro Posted on 6/4 1:15
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

aye but all politicians are the same.once they get a bit of power they think they can do what they want.

ferencpuskas Posted on 6/4 1:16
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

I liked it when they replayed the footage when he was lost in the desert.

ste_north_stand Posted on 6/4 1:17
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

forgive my ignorance but i couldn't give 2 shiits who gets in, they are all as bent as each other IMO

uncle_harry Posted on 6/4 1:18
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

and we wont even go into her special relationship with Pinochet who allegedly arranged 4000 murders during his dictatorship

RavsDad Posted on 6/4 7:38
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

So I guess we'll be having a minutes silence before the appropriate Boro match when she goes. Given that:
-She had such a great effect on so many people;
-She was the elected leader of several races for quite a few years;
-Her close association with English football clubs makes it logical to give supporters a chance to show their respect?

ray192 Posted on 6/4 7:45
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

lets have a ten minutes silence to make sure the fcuking bitch really has gone .

--- Post edited by ray192 on 6/4 7:48 ---

ray192 Posted on 6/4 8:44
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

snatcher thatcher
stopped free childrens milk at school the COW

Kyrareed Posted on 6/4 8:59
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

That is absolutely disgusting

Yes, you may not have agreed with her actions but your hatred of her is completely disgraceful

Was she like hitler? did she commit mass genocide?

Was she like Saddam who similarly killed millions whilst oppressing millions more?

Was she like Osama Bin Laden who has reek terrorist attrocities across the world?

I think you will find that the answer is no! If you truely hate her then you are one very sad little man who has obviously led a very sheltered life and therefore do not comprehend true evil!

You should be ashamed of yourself!

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 6/4 9:03
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Yes she put this country firmly down the league and this shower don't look like rectifying the problems. Still, have a look at the alternatives, more extremist crazies in the form of the Tories, or the untried and looking more and more clueless Libs.

Oh, and Grumpy Paul, take a look over the top of that right wing rag you've had your head stuck in and take another look at trade union activity of the 70's and 80's. See what the union leaders were saying and what the outcomes were. The trade union problems lay with their inability to back each other, too many didn't give a monkeys about others in the movement, hence so many ending up in thew Lords.

SidSnot Posted on 6/4 9:04
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

I'm not really sure how this is any less vile than racism or sectarianism to be honest.

There's plenty of people out there who genuinely believe all our country's woes are the fault of immigrants, blacks and asians. We rightfully frown on this regardless of their beliefs. How is this different?

Admin should really remove this thread.

--- Post edited by SidSnot on 6/4 9:12 ---

silly_sod Posted on 6/4 9:08
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Add me to the long list of those who'll be happy when she dies and even happier if she suffers for a good while beforehand.

I've actively hated very few people in my life and she's top of the list.

mickbrown Posted on 6/4 9:16
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Spot on Corcaigh_the_Cat.

Scargill was saying that they were trying to destroy the mining industry and everybody thought he was a fool. Guess what happened next.

gadgy Posted on 6/4 9:27
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

It is with dignity and peace, as we all deserve ,whatever our political persuasion.

DybuksChampion Posted on 6/4 9:33
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Not to mention the falklands war where we pulled our boats out of the way to let the argentinians in allowing us to start a fight and thus prevent her defeat in 83.

bobstermarley Posted on 6/4 9:52
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

This is bringing back flash backs of "The List Of Shame" thread from several months back. Anyone remember that?

Seem to remember my name being listed, along with ridsdale and several others, as being dreadful, evil people, who should rot in hell for wishing misfortune on a poor little old lady like Thatcher.

I stand by what I said then. May she disappear from this plain of existence, writhing in agony. There are very few people who I would honestly say I actually hate. For Margaret Hilda, I make an exception.

MrAngryCurrentlyInAberdeen Posted on 6/4 11:14
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

mickbrown, Scargill destroyed the Heath Government to further his own political ambitions, and the miners eventually destroyed themselves by ignoring their OWN rules and going out on an UNOFFICIAL strike. Scargill STILL has his mansion, and his life-presidency of what's left of the union HE destroyed.

The only things I'd blame Maggie for, were interfering with the Rates system (call it poll tax if you like, but we still have Council Tax, and it's all the same thing in the end), and failing to control her own cabinet to the extent they forced her to sign us up to Europe and the ERM. They knifed her in the end, a bit like Julius Caesar.

guyb Posted on 6/4 11:22
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

I for one will be dancing when the news is allowed.

I don't think they should have a funeral either. In her honour, they should dump the body in the street and let "The Market" take care of it.

She would have wanted it that way

GrumpyOldGit Posted on 6/4 11:24
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Like Bobster says, this is just a repeat of the "List of Shame" thread. I was pleased to be on that thread and I'll support this one too. The champagne's on ice.

bluetitch Posted on 6/4 11:30
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

I too will be having a party - and surely no-one would dare have a minutes silence before a match?

mattrich Posted on 6/4 11:31
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

good point blue titch, a very delicate situation, i think they will though.

Kyrareed Posted on 6/4 11:31
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

My God!

What exactly has this woman done that makes you hate her soo much?

the_lodger Posted on 6/4 11:36
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

you don't know????
where have you been for the last 20 years?????

bluetitch Posted on 6/4 11:36
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Dear oh dear - what an innocent!

jimmythewondercat Posted on 6/4 11:37
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

I am amazed at the bile being spilt on this about someone who left power 15 years ago (ish). The naivity of some of the posturing on here is truely sad - she led a party and government which in it's day was overwhelmingly supported at the ballot box. Sure it made mistakes and hindsight is wonderful, but the class warrior feel to some of these posts is very cliche.

Why did so many people vote for them so many times? Was it because at the time the alternate was an infighting 'traditional' socialist alternative that had failed to address all sorts of problems in the '70s? For goodness sake, we went begging to the IMF to be bailed out like some tinpot country!

The 80's weren't perfect and mistakes were made but I strongly suggest that most of the posters on here benefited more than they lost from the Thatcher legacy. It is just trendy to slag it all off rather than admit that it did some good.

Kyrareed Posted on 6/4 11:42
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

I am not an innocent

I just can't remember Maggie morphing into a fred west / harold shipman / osama bin laden type character!

If i didn't know better i would assmume that she had killed millions of people, molested children and and spead global disease given you hatred of her.

Everyone is soo busy hating her yet no-one has noted a valid reason for hatred!!

I don't regard arguments based on national economics (ie battles with Unions, intro of Poll Tax, increases in interest rates etc) as genuine reasons to hate somebody!

bluetitch Posted on 6/4 11:42
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Benefitted more? Sorry, you got me there. Ermmmm....nope can't think of a single thing.

Kyrareed Posted on 6/4 11:43
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

mass genocide - now there is a reason

PapaJohn Posted on 6/4 11:44
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

I will be having my minute or two for sure.

Maggie and he policies changed a country which was in dire need of change. The change as I see it was fundamental - from how is the country going to look after me and my family - to its my life my responsibility.

I think about one thing, imagine calling up the post office in the late 70s and reporting a fault, no customer service, 2 or 3 weeks for repair, think about it now. Its a simple example.

silly_sod Posted on 6/4 11:44
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

The unemployed were "a price worth paying", there was "no such thing as society" and the miners defending their jobs and their way of life were "the enemy within".

The woman was vindictive in the extreme, unwilling to listen to the opinions of others and totally without empathy.

She certainly shaped a decade, that much can never be denied but the philosophy of greed and self interest that she and her acolytes espoused did more damage to the character and moral values of this country than anyone even realised at the time.

bobstermarley Posted on 6/4 11:50
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

1. Supported many dictators who crushed human rights (like Pinochet's Chilean regime).

2. Unemployment nearly tripled in her first two terms

3. High interest rates and increased class differentiation, as well as growth of the underclass.

4. Squandered multi billions of pounds, from the North Sea oil, in military projects, instead of putting it back into the nation for development.

5. Ruined the mining and steel industries.

6. Systematically removed trade union rights.

7. Privatised many British services, making the few very rich. As our own Lord Stockton said, was like "selling off the family silver".

8. Piloted the poll tax in Scotland and it was a dismal failiure, Scotland became totally anti-conversative. So she decided to bring the poll tax to England, too!

whighamshalftimetab Posted on 6/4 11:51
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

shafted the north causing thousands of folk to move down south to find employment.the nasty uncaring society we have now is solely down to her evil greedy policys of the 80s.

PapaJohn Posted on 6/4 11:53
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

I was unemployed around that time as was my Dad. Using a goverment initiative I upped sticks and moved and got a job which enabled me to use my skills to benefit both my employer and myself.

Without that initiative I reckon i'd be still sat in a pub on Teesside moaning about the bad old days.

Two mins silence for me.

jimmythewondercat Posted on 6/4 11:56
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

If that is the case Bluetitch then of course I can't argue - I don't know your circumstances.

The current economic boom and radically better commercial sector in this country than virtually anywhere in Europe is at least partly down to the changes they drove through in the '80's. If you work you will probably not be paying 102% tax on your earnings as happened in the heady days of economic meltdown in the late 70's.

And one thing is also true - if you don't like the people running the economy in the UK you can now vote them out - it was a bit more difficult when the major industrial unions like the miners, powerworkers, car unions etc. basically held people to ransom - they weren't elected!

The funny thing is of course many of you will proudly vote New Labour again, only to get a government further right wing than Ted Heath in the '70s! It just shows that most 'Labour' supporters are actually nothing like 'socialist'.

I would love to know how many of the ardent labour fans on here aren't actually students or recent ex students, but are grafting workers that came from a council house or similar. Probably few - if you were you wouldn't be poncing around on fmttm all day.

Kyrareed Posted on 6/4 11:58
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Again - all these arguments are based on economics! the woman did wrong - but no real reasons to wish her pain!

As for supporting dictators - Tony Blair has done the same with regards to Mugabe

Make up your minds guys! People condemn the labour government for going to war in Iraq to remove Saddame yet they cry foul when Maggie failed to act on similar such notions

I can thoroughly understand why people don't like her - i come from a family of steelworkers myself but I would never wish anyone dead unless they were personally responisble for taking anothers life!

I just find it immature to use the word hate so easily!

silly_sod Posted on 6/4 12:06
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

I don't use the word hate easily.

I don't hate my ex-wife or my ex-mate she buggered off with for instance when I'd have every reason to do so but I do hate Margaret Thatcher even now.

And since jimmy...cat asks, I was brought up in a council house, my Dad was a factory worker and I was in the last year of students who got a full grant to go to university - another thing Margaret Thatcher stopped. I got on in life despite her not because of her.

Kyrareed Posted on 6/4 12:13
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Surely arguments such as "Maragret Thatcher Stopped Students From Getting Full Grants to go to Uni" is not applicable since Tony Blair has not only adopted Maggies Policy but furthered it by introducing tuition fees that are forever spiraling with the intention of taking us the american way ie eventually local authorities will make no contributions to students who will be forced to pay the full wack of their fees estimated at about 8000 per year (not including accomdation).

He could have reversed it but choose not too and therefore has endorsed Maggies policy

borobuddah Posted on 6/4 12:14
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Might I add,

Sank the Belgrano when it was sailing away,

Watched fellow MP Bobby Sands die on hunger strike rather than accede to his demand for the right to be treated as a political prisoner and wear his own clothes.

Said there was a market for poor, cheap food, as in bulls ear burgers, creator of mad cow.

I will party when she gets stiff, I wish we could still parade heads on poles.

silly_sod Posted on 6/4 12:15
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

I didn't say I liked Tony Blair did I?

So why should Blair's policies influence my feelings towards Thatcher in any way at all?

DybuksChampion Posted on 6/4 12:20
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

For a look at how she affected your local area - she made Teesside be classed as a rural zone which meant that taxes from local companies (i.e. ICI and British Steel) were payed to central government rather than to the local purse.

Therefore the money raised from you living with the works on your doorstep was nicely distributed to the leafy hamlets down south rather than used to benefit the local populace.

Just have a think about that as you rive down the trunk road. How warm does it make you feel that you've got the old slag heaps for company in areas of the old steel works that will never be cleaned up.

jimmythewondercat Posted on 6/4 12:22
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

We have a lot in common silly sod in terms of age and experience by the sounds of it!

I just think that there was more chance for us to get on and better ourselves after that era than before - in the preceding period most of Teesside was pre destined to be factory based fodder feeding heavy industry - and we were basically written off as such.

And the end of much heavy industry in the UK has far more to do with the fact that China/Korea etc produce the same stuff at a third of the price - no country can subsidise that for ever to prop up their dying industries.

One last question - ever owned a Rover car? Ever also owned a Japanese/German/Korean car? Notice who builds them better - it took Nissan to teach us how to assemble cars in the UK, not our own abilities which were happened by restrictive practices, closed shops etc etc. And who brought in Nissan to the UK?

Anyway - this could go on forever - glad to hear you did make it silly_sod - good when anyone gets on as a result of their efforts!

squealy Posted on 6/4 12:22
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

If I believed in hell I'd hope she burnt there for all eternity. But as I don't I'll just have to content myself with partying like I never partied before when the evil witch snuffs it.


red_rebel Posted on 6/4 12:30
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

If there is a minute's silence for Thatcher at a match I will BOOOOOOOO like I have never booed before. I may possibly get ejected for the bile I will no doubt spout.

I am resigned to getting a bloody nose at some point during teh national mourning because I personmally will vilify the witch publicly at every opportunity.

I have been saving a quid a week in a bloody big jar since 1985. I empty in once in a while and stick into an account that has over 1,000 now. It will pay for one hell of a party - and maybe a public announcement in the Gazette - when she pops her clogs.

The reason why Thatcher engenders such hatred is quite simple. It is because she herself was motivated by hate.

Whereas most politicians are bland and grey and simply juggling balls while constantly looking at the public opinion polls Thatcher embarked on a vindictive personnal crusade against those things which she hated with a passion.

She turned the state into a blunt instrument to bludgeon whole sectors of society that the warped reactionary hated and feared: the young, the working class, trade unionists, democrats, women, single parents, labour, liberals, 'one nation 'Tories, football fans, the media, the church, the blacks, the Scottish, the Irish, the unemployed, the intellectuals... rarely has anyone been such an all consuming bundle of spite and prejudice.

And rarely has anyone been in a position to act on their hatred. Thatcher was and she was ready to crush with absolute glee anyone who she thought would stand in the way of her mission to turn the clock back to a Victorian society of the powerful and the cowering servile masses.

That's what people destest about her, the glee. Rubbingher hands in triumph as unemployment, misery and poverty knocked people into line through fear. Rejoice.

The willingness to go to extreme lengths to smash opposition no matter how mildly expressed, her contempt for other points of view and an obsession that anyone who took a contrary position was 'the enemy within.'

For her the 'enemy within' seemed to include everyone who had not voted Tory... and millions who had too. What a nasty, evil, vindictive, small minded and twisted individual.

The damage will take generations to repair. She ripped apart the post war consensus, smashed the foundations of the welfare state and created a society based on short term profiteering, overt selfishness, greed and devil take the hindmost competition.

I for one can not forgive the most vicious attack on the ordinary people of this country ever mounted by an elected leader.

Revol_Tees Posted on 6/4 13:17
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Great post, red_rebel.

Revol_Tees Posted on 6/4 13:20
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

We will laugh the day that Thatcher dies
Even though we know it's not right
We will dance and sing all night

I was blind in 1979
By '82 I had clues
By 1986 I was mad as hell

The teachers at school, they took us for fools
They never taught us what to do
But Christ we were strong, we knew all along
We taught ourselves the right from wrong

And the punk rock kids, and the techno kids
No, it's not their fault
And the hip hop boys, and heavy metal girls
No, it's not their fault

It was love, but Tories don't know what that means
She was Michelle Cox from the lower stream
She wore high-heeled shoes while the rest wore flat soles

And the playground taught her how to be cruel
I talked politics and she called me a fool
She wrapped her ankle chain round my left wing heart

Yes, we will laugh the day the Thatcher dies
Even though we know it's not right
We will dance and sing all night

(Ding dong, the witch is dead!
which old witch? The wicked witch!
Ding dong, the wicked witch is dead!
The wicked witch is dead ...!)

ridsdale Posted on 6/4 13:34
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

And to think I once called red_rebel "a nice but slightly dull man"






Hope I still get an invite to the big party!!!

red_rebel Posted on 6/4 13:48
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Rids: you should have seen me on the barricades lighting molotovs on the flames of my passion. And "nice but slightly dull" has now become part of my global branding.

quaker Posted on 6/4 13:52
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

My mum was unemployed during the conservative reign of last and she reckoned that she was always better off unemployed under the Conservative party than Labour. (she works now so no slagging off). My question is, is this because as Mr Blair pointed out in PM's questions today the Conservative party put more money into the unemployed thus giving them an incentive to stay unemployed whereas Labour are pumping money into things such as 'new dea;' that can get people employed thus the unemployment figures dropping? Am I correct in my assumption?

MrAngryCurrentlyInAberdeen Posted on 6/4 14:10
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

borobuddah, 'sank the Belgrano when it was sailing away.....'

Get a grip. We were at war. You really think turning around and facing the other way should allow you to be excused? The ship could have turned around five minutes later. War is war, and a warship is a legitimate target.

holgate69 Posted on 6/4 14:13
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

That we all get an extra bank holiday to go on the pi_ss.

Amsterdam_Reds Posted on 6/4 14:32
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

I reckon we should all don red jackets and chase her and her delinquent son across open countryside on horseback with a pack of hungry hounds. Chuck in Oliver Letwin whilst we are at it.

TheMerryPloughboy Posted on 6/4 14:45
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Mr Angry writes "we were at war"
Britain was not at war with Argentina.

gravy173 Posted on 6/4 14:58
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

would there be a minutes silence at the ground for maggie i wonder?

jimmythewondercat Posted on 6/4 15:08
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Technically not a war but tell the Marines, Welsh Guards and sailors on the Sheffield that. Ot the Falkland Islanders who suddenly found themselves under occupation.

At worst, the Falkland should be independent but not an Argentine colony!

The Belgrano was a war ship. Not a merchant ship. Hostilities were well underway. I suppose we should wait until we have lost a reasonable number of sailors before we fire on someone. Then we can feel better about it.

The sailors families may not like it but hey ho the Guardian will at least be in favour.

The Falklands had to be done and it DIRECTLY led to the restoration of democracy in Argentina - everyone convieniently forgets this. If we had let them simply walk in, Galtieri would have lasted 20 more years and the numbers of 'disappeared' people would have continued to rise. Just a perspective for all you fans of civil liberties.

Mind, we should have bombed Buenos Airies as well to get them back in advance for the hand of god moment! ;-)

TheMerryPloughboy Posted on 6/4 15:20
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Like I said. Not at war.
So Maggie freed Argentina. God bless her. Maybe she should have had a word with her good friend in Chile too. But she didn`t. Did she?

jimmythewondercat Posted on 6/4 15:25
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

I agree that she was wrong about Chile, and a few other things as well. But she did get this bit right. As you sort of say in a slightly sniffy way!

By the way, there were UN resolutions to support the Falklands conflict.

Shame old Tony and the gang didn't see the need to bother with them.

Thatcher - not perfect by any means but just how different is she from those you will vote for next month? Honestly?

Do those of you who hate her hate them for their mistakes?

Or are you on a bandwagon here?

Just my thoughts...

red_rebel Posted on 6/4 15:31
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Jimmy:

The Argentinean people freed themselves from the Junta. With millions on the street, general strikes and a revolutionary upsurge organised by socialist parties and unions that torture and oppression could not smash. They didn't need Thatcher's help.

You have put horse before the cart. The Junta were already on the slide before the leftist led uprising. The invasion of the Malvinas was a pointless war by an unpopular regime in order to stir up nationalism and cling desperately onto power at all costs ... in that, they have much in common with Thatcher

jimmythewondercat Posted on 6/4 15:48
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

May be - but if they had taken the islands without a fight it would undoubtedly have extended the life of the Junta - remember the dancing in the streets when they invaded?

You call it The Malvinas red_rebel - that is the Argentine colonial name for them - are you saying that they should have the colonial rights not us? If anything they should be allowed to decide independently - oh thats right they did and did NOT want to be occupied.

I guess I am really quizzical of the level of hostility towards her indivdually - at least she stuck to what she believed in, right or wrong, and let the ballot box decide. A lot of people backed it, including many in our region.

To say they were clinging to power in '82 is a bit of a stretch given the '83 landslide and the shambles that Labour were in - remember CND, Peter Tatchell and all those other things they backed and were (in some cases now shamefully) seen as reasons not to support Labour?! Labour had virtually self destructed.

Still, we could have gone for David Steele and David Owen - now there's a double act!

Am gonna get off this thread now and try and earn a living! Happy to see a healthy debate and no personal name calling!

Least we all love the Boro!!

Sceptic_Frank Posted on 6/4 15:51
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

The way I've heard it, The Belgrano was sailing in a safe-zone when it was hit. An area of sea established and agreed by both sides as somewhere ships would not be fired on. But 'Gotcha!' is a more unifying, patriotic, vote-winning headline than 'Got Away.'

ray192 Posted on 6/4 15:54
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

kyrareed
have you ever lived in a police state NO i have so shut up please.
creswell colliery, nottinghamshire coal field.
our small mining village was cut off in 1984/85 by thatchers boot boys the police,not just notts police i might add they were from all over the country.
the met,london
cleveland
wales
yorkshire
kent
lancashire
durham
thats just to name a few.
ask the miners what they think of the bsatard.
one hell of a party in creswell when she goes,bring it on NOW please.

jimmythewondercat Posted on 6/4 16:06
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Last post I promise.

ray_192 - surely the Notts miners were the ones still working and not on strike? The Police action there was to prevent flying pickets disrupting the miners who chose to carry on working until old Arthur called a National Ballot (which of course he never did).

Or were you a striking pit?

The series Our Friend in the North covered the strike better tahn anything I have ever seen - I was in Newcastle at college at the time and my dad was on the picket lines.

red_rebel Posted on 6/4 16:10
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Jimmy:

In early 1982 unemployment had just done through the 2m barrier and was shooting up. Stikes were ripping through the country. Opinion polls had her at 28% and the right of the Tory party were preparing a leadership challenge.

The Malvina war got her off the hook and cemented power for a decade despite everything else.

jimmythewondercat Posted on 6/4 16:19
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

red

the point you make is a reasonable one - it would have been interesting to see if they would have survived an election without the war - i think they would but with a smaller majority

still, somewhat academic now!

cheers anyway.

Kyrareed Posted on 6/4 16:19
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

I won't shut up thank you very much!!

Everyone is entitled the opinion and I usually express mine (apart from when people are rude to me) quite politley.

Its typical of some bloody people - you run out of arguments or you realise that your arguments are about as stable as a chocolate fireguard so then you get aggressive! How very adult! When you are ready for a polite debate on something that is currently of great interest then please feel free to find me. Until then, I suggest you go to the library and brush up on your communication skills (and your politics whilst you are there too)!!!

Deep Breaths - resume calm composure!!!

jim51 Posted on 6/4 16:23
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Ask the crew of the Belgrano how evil that bitch was.

ray192 Posted on 6/4 16:38
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

jimmythewondercat
creswell colliery was a working mine,i was on strike all the way through,so i was not a flying picket at creswell as it was my colliery.the police duty should have been to stop the flying pickets entering our village.but the reality of the situation is this,people who lived in our village whether striking or NOT were prevented from going about their normal daily lives.
you was questioned no matter where you went for example the pub,shopping,sporting activities,etc.the police were always there no matter what.

TheMerryPloughboy Posted on 6/4 16:39
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Many years ago I was sat in the local bar, as you do.
We were discussing Thatcher and the hunger strikers. Lets just say, she is not looked on in a fond way this side of the water. A stranger joins in the conversation. "I`ll dance on that bitches grave" says he.
A wee bit strong I thought. Until he told his tale.
Our stranger was an ex miner from yorkshire.

ray192 Posted on 6/4 16:42
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

kyra if you are on about me i did say please you know!!

jimmythewondercat Posted on 6/4 16:45
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Ray
admire your principles even if i think you were wrong. must have been a tough time and understand why your views won't change. must have been even harder in a working community.

ploughboy
she is pretty popular with 50% of the Ulster community if that is what you mean be across the water - but that is a different set of circumstances to say the least.

TheMerryPloughboy Posted on 6/4 16:54
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Jimmy.... I live in the Republic.
Just for your information. There are three counties in the Republic that are also in Ulster.

ray192 Posted on 6/4 16:56
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

cheers jimmy.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 6/4 16:57
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Certain areas became 'police states' under Thatcher. She obviously picked up some good tips from her mate in Chile.

'There's no such thing as society'. Wasn't that her philosophy?

Anybody out there agree with that?

jimmythewondercat Posted on 6/4 16:58
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

ploughboy

you are of course correct - but i think the issue of ill feeling towards elements of the English and Scottish communities throughout Ireland is a bit deeper seated than the Thatcher era. She merely maintained the prevailing non republican stance at the time, which to be fair was by far the popular one in England at that time.

Thanks goodness that has finally changed - why it has changed is of course the subject of a whole new thread.

Was in Limerick last week Ploughboy - do love Ireland - was in Belfast last year as well and loved it there too. God only knows how the crap has gone on as long as it has given how decent most Irish people are!

Right - am off for a pint.

cheers all - Come on Boro!

zaphod Posted on 6/4 17:02
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

I'm amazed that so many people on here seriously think that continuing and increasing huge subsidies to the coal mines and other uneconomic industries were a realistic policy option in the early 1980s. Even Jim Callaghan admitted that the subsidies had to stop. There was a lot of public sympathy for the miners in the early 1970s, but by the early 1980s, a lot of that had disappeared because of the intransigence of Scargill. As far as he was concerned, the taxpayers of the UK were required to continue to shell out indefinitely to keep the miners in their well-paid jobs. It wasn't on. It is very sad that it had to be someone as brutal and uncaring as Mrs T to do it, but whether it was her or someone else, it had to be done.

The massive unemployment in the 1980s was a legacy of the subsidies of the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s. Industries went bust or slimmed down, throwing people out of their underproductive jobs and forcing them to look for more economically viable alternatives. It was so painful for so many people because Britain had been defying economic gravity for 20 or 30 years through Government policies of subsidisation.

Economic growth can only be achieved if people produce more of the same thing (which consumers actually want) or switch to producing something in demand. This usually involves people losing their jobs and having to get new ones. This should happen on a gradual basis, but it all happened at once in 1980s, causing a lot of misery.

raggy Posted on 6/4 17:05
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Ridsdale et al - would you be happy to let us all come and rejoice if one of your family members suffers and dies - I hope so.

Whatever political persuasions (and remeber it was the vast majority of the people who put her there) such evilness is not warrented.

Rob is this what you wanted from a footballing messageboard?

Parmo_Pete Posted on 6/4 17:07
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

....I'm still young enough to dance.

Red_Clowne Posted on 6/4 17:12
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

It wasn't "the vast majority of the people who put her there".

No govt since the fifties has got anywhere near 50% of the votes cast in an election.

She maintained power by systematically pouring investment into the areas who supported her and withdrawing funding from those that didn't.

I will boo for the first time at the Riverside if/when they have a minute's silence for her.


Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 6/4 17:18
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

And today Zaphod.......the tax payers spend millions to keep the shareholders of the arms industry wealthy. It was a case of switching the target of public money to so that it found it's way into the pockets of the already rich and not to support the livelihoods of the working classes. Economic crises happen regularly, it's the management of them that the Tories have a dreadful track record in. Even an economist should be able to see that.

Capybara Posted on 6/4 17:19
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

We lost an ex-Prime Minister last week. There were no minutes' silences at football grounds. The precedent has been set.

Linny_Boy Posted on 6/4 17:23
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

zaphod - all I've got to say is German steel and Aussie coal - makes perfect economic sense to me.

number_10 Posted on 6/4 17:32
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

I think it'd be absoloutely hilarious if she did get a minutes silence and the North Stand jsut burst into EIOing throughout it

ridsdale Posted on 6/4 17:35
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

"Ridsdale et al - would you be happy to let us all come and rejoice if one of your family members suffers and dies - I hope so."

If any of my family was anyway near to being as evil as that bitch,I would kill them meself.

My father was a miner, he also left the mines go and fight in the
war. I remember how poorly he was paid. In the days of cheap oil,
the miners were treated like scum. That is why they went on
strike in the seventies. After OPEC screwed the West on oil, the
miners used their power. And brought down a hated tory government.

That is the main reason she hated the miners and plotted to
destroy the unions. She planned the strike of the 80's years
before it happened. Our nations problems were not caused by the
unions. They were caused by the quadrupling of oil prices.

The workers tried to defend their living standards. The working
class had gone through the hell of two world wars and had nothing
to show for it. The rich still held power and wealth.

The tories were incompetent in running the economy. Look back at
the number of bankruptsies. The major cause of was the record
interest rates due to tory policies.

The rich got much richer. The rest barely survived.

I make no apologies for hating her. May she rot in hell.

borobadge Posted on 6/4 17:36
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

M.A.I.Aberdeen..""Scargill destroyed the Heath Government to further his own political ambitions, and the miners eventually destroyed themselves by ignoring their OWN rules and going out on an UNOFFICIAL strike. Scargill STILL has his mansion,""

you'll find that history will show that Joe Gormley was the general secretary of the N.U.M. when Heaths government fell and collapsed...

The miners never broke their own rules, because the rules state that only the ruling N.U.M. Executive had the power to call a strike..but there was NO rule that said they had to ballot for it..there-fore as the anti-trade union legislation was not in place at that time..the strike could not have been "unofficial"...(i'm not saying that a mandate via a ballot wasnt the right thing to do!..just that there was no legal case to call one)

finally to answer your last point..Arthur Scargill lives in the same home today as he did then and 10 years before he became General Secretary of the N.U.M...Its certainly no mansion....

in fact my mams on valley road in grove hill is bigger.

i dislike thatcher with a passion, and want her to stay alive for a long time yet..but if there was a minutes silence at the riverside when she dies i would observe it.

bluetitch Posted on 6/4 17:50
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Who's just said on here something to do with subsidising miners and their well paid jobs! What's that all about? Smacks a bit of resentment to me. In my opinion they were never paid enough to work in those kind of conditions. I went down what had been a working mine in The Black Country Museum. I've never been so relieved to get out of somewhere before. I was in there for about half an hour, couldn't contemplate being down there for a whole day!

dicky_rooks Posted on 6/4 18:02
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

When talking about subsidies, don't forget the subsidy that nuclear power gets. It's been proved that if coal had been subsidised to the same extent that the nuclear industry was then coal could have been given away, along with a tenner for every bag, and it would have still been profitable.
The case for whether a pit was economic or not was largely political - those with strong NUM lodges were soon made to look uneconomical so that the bolshies could be laid off

Esky_North_Stand Posted on 6/4 18:03
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

100

neiltrodden Posted on 6/4 18:06
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

That's a superb contribution there Esky!

bluetitch Posted on 6/4 18:14
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Be interesting to know in the long term, after paying out redundancies and benefits, ifit would have ended up financially better to have carried on with some subsidies.

ray192 Posted on 6/4 18:16
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

good post bluetitch.

bluetitch Posted on 6/4 18:18
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Thank you.

BoroGrecian Posted on 6/4 19:26
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

a women who in her time, destroyed the lives of millions of industrial workers across the country, starved the miners back to work, privitised the water, gas and electricity industries meaning my own region has to pay outragous water rates to subsidise the rest of the country who chose to come down here and sheight in our toilets while they camp out in the Grockle boxes.

Privitised and deregulated the bus industry at the same time, in essense taking out any thought of public service into the bargian. Set into motion the privitisation and break up of the railways leading to a profit based company who were never concerned with passanger saftey.

Stole millions in pension funds from former National Bus Service workers after the privisation of the companies. It took 20 years for my father and other bus men to get that money back.

systematicly authorised the use of telephone bugs and other surveliance on active members of unions and the labout party. And yes it did happen because my own family were victims of it.

Set into motion the concept of 'for profit' private prisons which do not give a sheight about the welfare and saftey of inmates or staff and only look at their shareholdings at the end of each year.

Refused to bring in a national minimum wage because she and her government believe that the working classes should work for naff and and be damned happy about it.

Brought into being the idea of buying your own council home which in itself wasn't a bad idea, but refused to allow councils to ring fence that money to build new council homes, thus the shortage in social housing now.

Denied her own gender by attempting to subjgate women back into the home on the grounds of 'family values' and 'Victorian morals' sorry but if we were to bring back Victorian Morals then the master of the house would be busy sh agging the maid! oh yes very moral.

Pandered to the likes of Pinochet, saying he was a nice bloke really and turned a blind eye to the military overthrowing a democraticly elected government in Chilie and then time and again ignoring Amnesty International when they provided PROOF of human rights abuses. Said nothing and did nothing when again Amnesty International came forward with proof of Saddam Hussain's human rights abuses because it was convenient to support him while the country was at war with Iran.

Left the rich to get richer and the poor to just starve and die.

Allowed her over armed forces commit human right abuses in this country in the form of action in Northern Ireland. But then it was a good old tradition of this country so nothing changes.

So yes many people here do have a right to hate her.

ethan_edwards Posted on 6/4 19:31
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

I have never, NEVER not observed a minutes silence .... but if they had one for this evil, demented old bat I would be screaming MAGGIE< MAGGIE< MAGGIE at the top of my voice ... and any one of the other 30,000 who did not scream OUT_OUT_OUT in response knows nothing about what she did to the north and the working class

Gillandi Posted on 6/4 19:33
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

I'll mourn her decline with some Thundrerbird wine and try and get as close to Red Rebel's wake as possible. A grand eh?

speckyget Posted on 6/4 19:34
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Ace King Buck of a post rebel.

Thatcher effected one of the most radical, regressive and pernicious redistributions of wealth experienced in modern times. Her utter contempt for the majority of British people was breathtaking in its shamelessness. She condemned millions to live shattered, impoverished lives and that should be her legacy - a thoroughly evil human being and a study in the corrosive, corrupting effects of a culture based on personal greed.

She tore the soul out of this country and I'll take no pride in the elation I'll feel at her demise.

raggy Posted on 6/4 20:30
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

It seems such a shame that this hopless prime minister replaced such a strong, progressive thinker as her predecessoer, Callaghan. Of course lets just forget about the many strikes he alowed, that brought the country to its kness due to thick workers being lead by incompetent, and greedy leaders who were never bothered about the workers that they 'represented'. Lets forget that productivity in this country was at an all time low.

Thatchers 80's was a massive time of change, that many countries have yet to go through. Just as we were the first country into the industrial revolution, we were the first country to de - industrialise. Lets just look at the countries such as Poland who are now 30 yrs behind us economically - is that where people really want us to belong. Lets not forget that this country was very properous for an awful lot of people during the eighties, due to the privatisation of many public industries - is not the redistribution of wealth and handing the ownership of production back to the masses the foundation of Marxism??

Thatcher did treat the miners badly but why? They turned on their own who were prepared to break the unofficial strike. Many of those arressted were not even invovled in the mining industries, just thugs who wanted to join in a good battle with the police. If they had been lead by more intelligent leaders the miners could have recieved a very good redundencey package.

PS some one mentioned investment - well Thatcher set up the Teesside Development Corporation who pumped millions into this area and played a massive role in the financing of the Riverside Stadium.

BoroMod Posted on 6/4 20:42
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Didn't the TDC also take plenty too?

moxzin Posted on 6/4 20:47
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

From my point of view Margaret Thatcher seems like a modern day Oliver Cromwell, highly controversial, extremists on both sides colouring most histories of the period, most mainstream histories are therefore matter of fact and non-committal, not telling you much.

As part of our history course we are doing a controversy paper on Oliver Cromwell. I wouldn't be surprised if in 300 years time there will be controversy papers on Margaret Thatcher.

raggy Posted on 6/4 20:50
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

I hope you could back that statement up - one of the worst things about Maggies time in power was the rise of litigation.

speckyget Posted on 6/4 20:53
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Ah yes, the TDC - subject of a critical NAO investigation into its dodgy accounting and contracting practices. Fitting testament to Thatcher's barrowboy culture.

twoshots Posted on 6/4 21:33
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

mr get has just pointed me in the direction of red rebel's post in the middle of this thread

well said!!!!!

--- Post edited by twoshots on 6/4 21:33 ---

bluetitch Posted on 6/4 22:18
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

"Lets not forget that this country was very properous for an awful lot of people during the eighties, due to the privatisation of many public industries - is not the redistribution of wealth and handing the ownership of production back to the masses the foundation of Marxism??"
Prosperous for an awful lot of people? A select few - those who were already wealthy enough to buy lots of shares in the companies that were privatised and make a profit selling them when the value went up. I remember feeling nauseated when they showed how people who worked on the stockmarket were making RIDICULOUS amounts of money. Nauseated with disgust at their greed.

"Thatcher did treat the miners badly but why? They turned on their own who were prepared to break the unofficial strike. Many of those arressted were not even invovled in the mining industries, just thugs who wanted to join in a good battle with the police. If they had been lead by more intelligent leaders the miners could have recieved a very good redundencey package."
Passions were running VERY high during the miners strike - and still are actually. Those who broke the strike did so out of desperation for one reason or another. Miners who remained on strike were bound to feel betrayed. Thatcher just wanted to bring the miners union to their knees. I also think you'll find a LOT of those who joined the picket lines were members of other unions who wanted to show their support. Of course there were some idiots who went along in the hope of a fight - bit like football matches.

ridsdale Posted on 7/4 0:12
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

It is a mistake to think that only those on the left hated her.

Her demise came about because she stabbed more than a few of her
own in the back. She destroyed tory polititians who opposed her.

Any of her own cabinet who showed the least bit of doubt were
dispached and condemmed as 'semi-detached' or some other insult.

Her fate was sealed when many thousands of hard working, tory
voting people found themselves crippled by the poll tax.

Who can forget those who marched for the miners, but had never
been within a hundred miles of a pit.

She sickened all decent people.

ThePrisoner Posted on 7/4 0:19
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

"From my point of view Margaret Thatcher seems like a modern day Oliver Cromwell"

If only she'd lopped off the monarch's head. Hey, ho.

RavsDad Posted on 7/4 0:57
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

ridsdale

I'm a decent person. Not only did she not sicken me, she made me proud to be British. So you are wrong, and not only on that particular comment.

Incidentally, for all those on this thread who hope to dance on her grave - I hope you get your chance, and don't chicken out when she is buried at sea - mid Atlantic.

--- Post edited by RavsDad on 7/4 1:02 ---

bluetitch Posted on 7/4 1:06
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

raggy - still waiting, I will give you the chance to reply.

bluetitch Posted on 7/4 1:40
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Ravs dad - have you not read anything? Here or papers or books?

Grumpy_Paul Posted on 7/4 1:56
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

For God's sake I hope we don't have a repeat of that era

One of her clones (politically that is) is waiting in the wings with the up and coming election.

I live in fear of them returning to power, perish the thought

bluetitch Posted on 7/4 10:41
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Look what I found.

Link: Evil

raggy Posted on 7/4 11:52
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Bluetit - don't know what you are waiting for?

ray192 Posted on 7/4 12:12
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

bluetitch.
well found

red_rebel Posted on 7/4 12:13
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Ah, you found my home page!

attonBORO Posted on 7/4 12:37
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

jimmytheW/Cat and Kyra make some valid points and people should know that when Labour took power in 97 that they inherited the best ever economy this country has ever had. Compare that to the good old 70's when we were indeed "bailed out" and on top of that mass strikes and unemployment.

Labour have maintained the excellent economy but i think that now there is no real tory or labour in the traditional sense - they just create manifesto's to win votes, even if it/was against their traditional party values.

It has to be said that after living/travelling abroad a fair bit, that most other nations would have loved a leader like thatcher and that was said to me on many many occasions.

TheMerryPloughboy Posted on 7/4 12:46
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

"most other nations would have loved a leader like thatcher and it was said to me on many many occasions"
I suppose it depends on the company you keep ??

attonBORO Posted on 7/4 12:52
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

i suppose it does

attonBORO Posted on 7/4 12:55
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

...maybe i should have kept the general feedback that people told during my travels to myself, rather than trying to add a different slant to posts above? Trouble is i can think for myself and dont need to jump on popular bandwagons/beliefs. Must be the company i keep!!

Grove_Hill_Red Posted on 7/4 13:14
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Ridsdale,

I am obviously NOT a decent person by your measure. After all I am from Grove Hill - therefore obviously wealthy and not from a working class background yet I actually supported Thatcher and the Tories in general - after all I wished to improve my lot in life.

I've been made redundant 3 times, I no longer live in the Boro, I have bettered myself by bloody hard graft.

I am VERY proud of where I come from but I wouldn't want to go back there. I still regard myslef as working class - though you would probably disagree. I own a house worth over 500K BUT I am not upper class/posh as I do not live off "independant means".

I would suggest you and a lot of others on here take the chips off your shoulders and look at whats going on.

I am now being screwed by "Good Old Tony" but you'd probably say I deserve it!

I also by the way fully supported the poll tax - and still do.

I am rapidly beginning to think there are a lot of arses on this site sadly.

speckyget Posted on 7/4 13:19
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

I, I, I, I, me,me,me.

Yup, Maggie would be proud.

zaphod Posted on 7/4 14:05
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

There is no chance of a repeat of the 1980s, whoever's in power, because the structure of the economy is basically sound, so shock treatment won't be necessary.

Many developing countries have adopted Thatcherite policies and I'd agree with attonBORO that there is widespread recognition (outside Europe) that she got it broadly right economically. However, these policies are adopted with much greater consideration for the effects on people, rather than Thatcher's way of "slash and burn". You only have to go to a country like Tanzania to learn of the effects of the anti-economic socialist policies that were the norm before Thatcher.

ridsdale Posted on 7/4 15:15
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Grove_Hill_Red, I congratulate you on your house. I suspect you
would have done well no matter what government was in.

But if you are saying, that because you done well under Thatcher,
it does not matter what happened to all the others, then I just
do not agree.

Are things that bad under Blair for you? He has followed similar
policies to the tories, so just what is going wrong for you now?

Grove_Hill_Red Posted on 7/4 15:17
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

So speckget, whats the problem ?

Aren't you effectiveley saying that you are only interested in you and yours (yours being like minded people?)

Or are you telling me that you are going to look after me as well? Is it good for me to pay loads of tax?

I've found you get out of life what you put into it and sadly too many want to take out without putting in, ME, well, sorry, but I don't want to support them.

boroboy75 Posted on 7/4 15:18
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

It's Mr 'I'm considerably richer'.

Grove_Hill_Red Posted on 7/4 15:27
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Boroboy75 is that a tinge of green I see in your eyes?

Ridsdale, thanks for those kind words. As it happens I am now being much more heavily taxed being a Director of a small company (heard of IR35 - a VERY targetted tax). Other things going wrong, well lets look at crime and immigration - not popular, maybe, but sometimes things need to be said.

speckyget, sadly in this country doing well for yourself is frowned upon, other countries regard it as something to strive towards.
As to your point of Blair following the Tory way, why then not the same vitriol for Blair and his cronies? I think you'll find it took the Tories longer to get their collective snouts in the trough than it's taken Blairs boys and girls.

red_rebel Posted on 7/4 15:31
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

I agree with your last point but believing that NEw Labour are a bunch of smarmy opportunists does not detract from the social and economic chaos caused by the naked class war of Thatcherism.

ridsdale Posted on 7/4 15:37
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Yes I think I know what IR35 is. As I understand, a lot of people
who freelanced and were effectively self employed, formed them-
selves into 'ghost' small companies.

That way they paid very little tax. Much less than anyone who
was paid PAYE. They paid themselves a small wage, then paid a
lower rate on 'company' profits.

It was a loophole that any goverment would close.

speckyget Posted on 7/4 15:49
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

No problem Mr ill_Red. Merely an observation that your extensive use of personal pronouns indicates an heroic sense of self worth, in good Thatcherite fashion. Congratulations on your acquisition of a valuable property. Can't think why you mentioned that though.

Grove_Hill_Red Posted on 7/4 15:53
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

red_rebel - and there isn't a class war going on NOW ? COuntryside Alliance, Fox Hunting etc ?? The class war was very much a card played by Labour to get themselves elected. Remember them telling people to break the law? How can they now expect people to respect the law? Poacher turned gamekeeper me thinks! And their answer to the sleaze accusations "Well the Tories did it as well". ALL POLITICIANS ARE SCUMBAGS in it for what they can get.

Ridsdale, yes it blocked a loophole, but not everyone paid minimal tax. It also targets a specific market. The way small IT companies worked was exactly the same as the way large companies work with unsallaried directors, also TV presenters etc. There are lots of market sectors using the same "trick". It would have been better to tax dividends exactly the same as earned income thereby closing the door for ALL sectors.

I WAS employing my wife and paying into HER Pension fund as well as my own. She is now unemployed and will have to reply on the already overburdend state pension.

Is it wrong that the "working class" should use the same loopholes as others? OR does the fact that I was using the loophole mean that I am no longer part of the mighty working class?

Me_me_me_I_I_I - maybe I should change my username to that it has a certain ring to it!

Bobby_DazzIer Posted on 7/4 15:59
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

You support the Poll Tax GHR? You think it is fair that a binman living in Saltersgill (no not you Gillandi) should pay the same rates as a city slicker living in a 3 million pounds mansion?

moxzin Posted on 7/4 16:12
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

red rebel, is that really your website?

raggy Posted on 7/4 16:43
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Although the poll tax was Thatchers downfall, and a tax which I disagree with, it was fair in the sense that everyone paid the same, that is pure equality. The problem with many (but not all) those opposing the tax was that they did not want to contribute to economy at all, just take out.

Grove_Hill_Red Posted on 7/4 16:54
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

If Person A chooses to work hard, not smoke/drink, not have a flash car, not have expensive holidays etc but put's all their efforts into having a large house, then WHY should they pay more than the family of 10 next door in a smaller house non of whom work, all smoke like chimneys, are down the pub all opening hours and have 2 or 3 holidays a year?

Answers on a postcard as to how THAT is fair - and that's what you have with Council Tax!

As to the question of why the answer was from a my/I perspective, well that's because it was a personal observation from my life and therefore referred to me.

In the spirit of Matelots mail, I will now depart this discussion until I am next riled.

borobuddah Posted on 7/4 16:59
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Borobadge, where are you coming from, you'd observe a silence?

ridsdale Posted on 7/4 17:56
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

"the family of 10 next door in a smaller house"

"all smoke like chimneys, are down the pub all opening hours "

Right thats 10 x forty fags a day. Four hundred fags A DAY. Plus
say 10 x 12 pints a day. 120 pints a day.

They would pay more in tax in a week than you would pay in a month.



Scounger.

green_beret20 Posted on 7/4 18:29
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

and then claim it all back again (and more) via the NHS when they are suffering from liver or lung disease.

borobuddah Posted on 7/4 23:24
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

the devil is lickin' his lips.

red_rebel Posted on 7/4 23:49
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

All this pro-Thatcher spin about cutting taxes is a blatant lie.

The Tories did not CUT taxes. They shifted them. They shifted the burden of paying for the running of the state from those who could most afford it to those who could least afford it.

The first thing the Tories did was cut the top tax band from 60% to 40% giving millionaires, their friends in the City and the already stinking rich a massive pay rise.

The second was more than double VAT to 15% so that poor people were hit hardest to make up the difference.

They also slapped charges on NHS prescriptions and severed the link between average wages and pensions so that the poor and the old were hit too.

Then they gave the police a big pay rise because they knew and relished the fact that they were going to need loyal muscle if ordinary people objected.

br14 Posted on 8/4 0:05
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

However much you may dislike Thatcher, at least she was a woman of her word.

Anyway, her objective was to get the UK out of the mire it had descended into under Labour, and seems to me that the entire country is better of as a direct result of her policies (however painful they may have been).

The Poll Tax is a much fairer system than anything else, it was just introduced badly. It has nothing to do with class. (Why bother with local taxes at all?).

My mother-in-law paid the same "rates" for her relatively inexpensive three bedroom house as the family of 5 working adults living across the street. Yet she used one 5th of the services of the local authority.

And what about the ability of council house tenants to own their properties. Thatcher opened up the housing market and millions have benefited from the "property owning democracy".

She was disliked by all of course, hated by the Left because she destroyed their arguments with ease; heated by the right because she was the daughter of a grocer and not some toff. Hated by me because she cancelled housing grants and increased VAT to 15% from 8%; and handed over to Major who allowed mortgage interest to rise to 15.4% in a pathetic effort to keep pace with the EMS (you have been warned).

All of this is a long time ago and I'm over the hate.

And it still pales into insignificance compared to the loss of civil liberties introduced by Blair, and the snide taxes (including the hated and phenominally stupid IR35) invented by Brown.

red_rebel Posted on 8/4 0:13
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

You have a valid point about the coup by stealth being carried out by the current shower of illiberal chancers but it would not be poissible without Thatcher shattering the welfare state, emasculating potential centres of opposition and centralising government to create an elected dictatorship.

ridsdale Posted on 8/4 0:14
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

Although I never said I was jealous of anyone, the same old tripe
comes out from the tories. As soon as a such a thing as a fairer
society gets mentioned. The instant reply is that we are peddling 'the politics of envy'.

No, I am not. I am reasonably happy. Yet it is clear that
grove_hill_red and ilk are not. In fact they seem to be very
envious of those with less. Constant complaints about people
living on generous benefits. Smoking, drinking and fornicating
on the state.

I have come to the conclusion that they are not happy bunnies,
Rich in money, but empty lives. Rattling about in big houses,
worrying about what others get up to. Counting their savings
instead of their blessings.

I find it all a bit sad.

They should loosen up a bit.

br14 Posted on 8/4 0:18
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

red_rebel - got to comment on your 60% to 40% complaint. I think you'll find the already stinking rich have inventive ways of moving their money to avoid paying taxes. Like moving to Dublin or the Caymans for example.

What actually happened is that the professional middle classes got to keep more of their cash (unless they spent it; in which case they paid double the VAT).

As for pensioners, I'm not sure Labour can claim to be any better than the Tories. Dont see my parents being better off anyway.

As for the VAT affecting the poor argument, things like childrens clothing and food didnt attract VAT.

BTW you forgot the fact she increased NI contributions. Gordon learned well.

ray192 Posted on 8/4 0:18
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

ridsdale
here here.

--- Post edited by ray192 on 8/4 0:19 ---

br14 Posted on 8/4 0:22
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

ridsdale, I think you may have hit the nail on the head.

I look forward to the day when I can pack in my high pressure job, tell the ex she can stuff the spousal support, and I can sit in the pub all day (when I'm not fornicating on the state).

But then who would pay for my season ticket?

ridsdale Posted on 8/4 0:26
re: I hope when Maggie dies,

br14, take a bag of dodgy fags and baccy with you to the pub.


Should make about thirty quid a day.