permalink for this thread : http://search.catflaporama.com/post/browse/534229466
soxy Posted on 13/7 19:14
season tickets refund

I've asked the club to cancel my renewal and give me a refund - they declined. Any idea if I can do anything about this?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 13/7 19:15
re: season tickets refund

Why would you do that?

Shawn_Thornton Posted on 13/7 19:17
re: season tickets refund

Cos mammy and daddy have bought a new telly?

uncle_harry Posted on 13/7 19:19
re: season tickets refund

I bet Im going to regret asking this but why ?

soxy Posted on 13/7 19:33
re: season tickets refund

anybody want to buy two tickets for the north stand!

uncle_harry Posted on 13/7 19:34
re: season tickets refund

so why then?

Jimmy_Stewart Posted on 13/7 19:42
re: season tickets refund

Hey someone just told me every Boro game is on the radio live. Alistair Darling and Bernie Clifton or something like that. Supposed to be great. And here's me all these years buying a season ticket when I could have had it free on the wireless.

Money back now please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MyBoro Posted on 13/7 20:45
re: season tickets refund

It doesn't matter why really. He no longer wants to go. His choice.

asmofsview Posted on 13/7 21:03
re: season tickets refund

consider your money spent on the season tickets an investment into the football club for when you change your mind again and decide you really do want to be a supporter

toshino Posted on 13/7 21:43
re: season tickets refund

Of course it bloody matters, because this sh'ite mentality looks like manifresting itself 5,000 times over, which is very bad news indeed fot the club and the loyalists who will keep the bandwagon rolling, while the shallow soxo's of Teesside have a sabatical, in order and till they have the stomach and nerve one day to jump back on it.

With fans like these Steve Gibson must wonder whether it's worth his while bothering at all.

gravy173 Posted on 13/7 22:10
re: season tickets refund

FFS people if someone wants to claim there money back whast wrong with that, everything else has a 16 day money back guarantee why shouldnt a season ticket.

maybe this might show his royal highness sir steve gibson (please people he's only a boro fan with a fat wallet, not mother theresa) that fans can't be taken for granted like the olden days when it cost threepence hapenny to watch the working mans game. Times have changed and clubs cant have they cake and eat it. Fans are being more alienated from the game and the younger generation pushed more towards playstations than watching football on a saturday afternoon (not that that will be happening much this season). times are changing and i think it stinks, how does it feel that my season ticket money covers 1% of JFH wages for one single week. Football players earn rediculous amounts of money which the fans hardly contribute too more sky money goes on wages than ticket sales nowadays and as such we are the ones that get shunted round. its a crap deal and boro and "sir steve" are part of those milking us for all they can - what is there to be proud of about that. if they want to treat us as customers and make us pay the associated price then consumer rights should apply and if someone wants a refund immmeadiately after purchase then they should be able to get one

--- Post edited by gravy173 on 13/7 22:12 ---

Borobarmy Posted on 13/7 23:23
re: season tickets refund

well said gravy .

EyeOfRa1975 Posted on 14/7 0:35
re: season tickets refund

how much soxy?

kerro1959 Posted on 14/7 0:39
re: season tickets refund

I might sell mine north stand block 19 row 20 great view face value

GroggySlaggySmoggy Posted on 14/7 2:39
re: season tickets refund

MyBoro and gravy173.

Spot on!

soxy Posted on 14/7 8:07
re: season tickets refund

Thanks to all for the mixed response. The fact is I can hardly afford the tickets due to change in circumstances - now I've found I'm going to miss several games due to tv commitments the 780 quid for 2 tickets is even less appealing! As the club seem to put sky money first and supporters last, it looks like i'll have to try and flog these tickets elsewhere if i'm to claw any cash back. Any ideas what they're worth?

sasboro Posted on 14/7 8:28
re: season tickets refund

not sure where you stand legally but might be worth speaking to the local rag as there could be a few doing the same and could put pressure on the club if you get together. also get in touch with the people who know about consumer rights.
I know with airlines yickets you dont get refunds, but if the flight is moved or cancelled then i would be surprised if you cant get your money back. a season ticket should be the same
the terms and conditions on a season ticket are a bit outdated, they were set when most games would take place ona saturday at 3pm or sheduled time and never changed unless you were in the FA cup. These days most of the games get moved from their advertised time when they buy the season ticket

--- Post edited by sasboro on 14/7 8:35 ---

ThePrisoner Posted on 14/7 10:02
re: season tickets refund

The chickens are definitely coming home to roost. Not content with huge ST proces the club expect to get the TV money as well. No doubt they will expect us to pay three times in future when the games are also available over the internet! Straw back camel.

fatharrywhite Posted on 14/7 10:05
re: season tickets refund

"As the club seem to put sky money first and supporters last"

how do you work that one out? the club have no say whatsoever in what games sky show live.

besides, your talking bollox cos the club have said that it takes a long time to sort out ticket applications because:

"Requests from season ticket holders who want to move seats, and those fans who have asked for refunds due to the number of televised home games, will prove time consuming."

therefore they are refunding money

Link: gazette

lazenby_smoggie Posted on 14/7 10:13
re: season tickets refund

you fookin bum.

no wonder our fans get slagged off when there's tight assed tvvats like you.

BobUpndown Posted on 14/7 10:21
re: season tickets refund

If you're looking to save some cash cancel your SKY subscription after all most of the TV cash goes to MU, Arsenal, Chelski and El'pool.. or are those the clubs you glory support..?

You say it's inconvienient for you to attend due to TV changing KO times.. yet you are OK to watch on TV at those times..

captain5 Posted on 14/7 10:24
re: season tickets refund

As long as superior fans such as you are around, I'm sure the club will be okay.

He didn't say he would be watching them on TV. He said the change in times that has been caused by TV makes it inconvenient for him.

fatharrywhite Posted on 14/7 10:25
re: season tickets refund

"You say it's inconvienient for you to attend due to TV changing KO times.. yet you are OK to watch on TV at those times.."

in slight defence of those that want to refund. it is the inconvenience of getting to the games rather than kick off times -thinking mainly of exiles. it's a p_isser for me and i only live in york so it wouldnt surprise me if a lot of london based fans who had season tickets are thinking twice.

sasboro Posted on 14/7 10:26
re: season tickets refund

so what if he wants to save his cash and watch it on TV. It's his choice. then if we progress in uefa cup, even more games will be switched to a sunday.

--- Post edited by sasboro on 14/7 10:29 ---

junk_yard_dog Posted on 14/7 10:30
re: season tickets refund

fatharrywhite: I wish that was the case. I've got a letter telling me they won't refund my money.

My credit card comapny won't get involved. I've written directly to Steve gibson and sent a copy of the letter to the EG. I will be surprised if they publish it.

I've also been in touch with trading standards, and I suggest soxy does the same. They tell me there's nothing legally they can do but will at least contact the club expressing, I would imagine poor trading standards.

My only othrer hope is the small claims court, any one know how much that will cost me?

Best of luck soxy..

captain5 Posted on 14/7 10:30
re: season tickets refund

I love the way that people think that football should be somehow outside of normal business practice, even to the extent that the fans end up getting short shrift.

The football clubs make such a great thing of saying that they are being ran as more of a business these days and yet when things are against them, they curl back up into a ball citing that they are a special case.

Sense just leaves the building.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 14/7 10:30
re: season tickets refund

I think BobUpndown that our hands will be firmly in the same pot as the so-called big boys looking at the fixtures, we'll be creaming in more than most from the Sky league fixtures. It's the European deal where we won't get the same, not if we're on Channel5 again this year.

janplanner Posted on 14/7 10:33
re: season tickets refund

i don't understand why you'd buy one if you didn't want one. i miss a fair few games a season, usually midweeks, because i live away from the area. but i still buy one and let someone else use it for those games. they pay me the face value for those games. simple.

although, i guess an unforeseen change of circumstances is fair enough, and the club should refund on cancellations, imo.

sasboro Posted on 14/7 10:35
re: season tickets refund

captain5, when demand is there in a golden era the club know they can do what they want. If your struggling with dropping attendances the club suddenly sit up and listen then the club claims to want the fans involved. DOnt you pay match to match? do you make most of the games? if so, i imagine it costs you more in the long run than a season ticket holder. so technically that makes you more of a fan than a season ticket holder.
it will turn as more games are televised and fans realise you can get a ticket for most home games easily

fatharrywhite Posted on 14/7 10:37
re: season tickets refund

that's actually a good point captain. if, for example, you bought a DVD player from dixons then two weeks later you tried to take it back simply cos you didnt want it anymore they'd more than likey say tough s_hit!

BobUpndown Posted on 14/7 10:37
re: season tickets refund

It would be nice to have all games at 15:00 on a sat.. and european games on a tues and wed.. also a team full of 'local' lads.. but times have changed and success or striving for means TV money makes the clubs fixtures change..

It may be some bother getting to all the matches now.. but isn't this the club we all 'support'? or is it just something to do.. like going to the pictures..?

Leedsclive Posted on 14/7 10:40
re: season tickets refund

Boro fans complain when Sky never show us. Boro fans complain when they show us too much. Some people just like complaining.
I bet this bloke is one of those gets who sits near me in the north stand and spends all of his time slagging off Boro players for every mistake. I have to travel from Leeds for every game so that's 23 rail fare and 9 hours away from home but I still go. We're better off without "supporters" like this. If the club don't refund him I'll gladly organise a whip round.

sasboro Posted on 14/7 10:42
re: season tickets refund

yes, only allow fans into the ground who pay upfront before the season starts and lets get back to crowds of 14,000! anyone who doesnt has a banning order put on them and not allowed near the ground on match day

Capybara Posted on 14/7 10:44
re: season tickets refund

Funnily enough, fhw, I purchased something from Dixon's recently and they give a guarantee that if you return it unused and unopened within two weeks because you have decided you don't want it, they will give you a full refund.

So, what the captain says.

shaun_84 Posted on 14/7 10:46
re: season tickets refund

I'm with sas on this one regarding the changes of kick-off times, and specfic single match refunds could be the answer, but if you apply for a ticket before the fixtures are announced then it's not applicable anymore..

sasboro Posted on 14/7 10:46
re: season tickets refund

same as at argos and B and Q

fatharrywhite Posted on 14/7 10:47
re: season tickets refund

i'd guess that the 2 week period (or whatever)would have passed for a lot of people. I'm sure there must be some laws/regulations about changes of minds but if the club arent legally bound to give refunds then why should they?

captain5 Posted on 14/7 10:50
re: season tickets refund

Again, is there any other product that is transferable to another party, with little inconvenience and cost to the supplier, that you would be willing to purchase if you didn't have the ability to cancel, over 1 month prior to taking receipt of the product??

gravy173 Posted on 14/7 10:51
re: season tickets refund

i doubt the two week period would have passed for everyone as im sure a lot would have paid up at the end of june with their paycheque, as most wanted to cancel when the list came out a week and a half ago then they would still have been within this money back guarantee period

sasboro Posted on 14/7 10:51
re: season tickets refund

is it right that 8 of the first 9 home games have changed times?
I think in good faith the club should refund people on that. but not if it were 1 or 2 games only.

captain5 Posted on 14/7 10:56
re: season tickets refund

I hope someone takes them to Small Claims, the club wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

If I tried to not allow one of my customers to cancel an order before I had even processed the order, never mind delivered the product, we would get taken to the cleaners.

fatharrywhite Posted on 14/7 10:56
re: season tickets refund

why should they just because it happens that it is 7 of the first 8 games? if they were spread over the season then i dont think many would be complaning and asking for refunds. off the top of my head 5 home games were live on sky last season (jawdees, man utd, chelsea, man city and bolton), does 2 more this season warrant a refund..

captain5 Posted on 14/7 10:58
re: season tickets refund

fatharrywhite - the point is that the club are stating that refunds are not available, full stop.

Get ill, have a bad accident, get sick of watching the match, prefer to watch on TV, lose your job.

It doesn't matter. You would not get your money back.

Middlesbrough FC. The community club.

sasboro Posted on 14/7 11:00
re: season tickets refund

when you buy insurance, they offer refunds on full months left if you cancel.

fatharrywhite Posted on 14/7 11:03
re: season tickets refund

and IF (it is a big if cos i've got no idea about consumer law) they are not legally bound to give the money back then why should they?

it is a business not a charity.

captain5 Posted on 14/7 11:04
re: season tickets refund

And you think that point blank refusing to give refunds even at the chance of alienating customers is good business practice??

Sheesh.

Craigmas Posted on 14/7 11:05
re: season tickets refund

I for one dont care if its on telly, id rather be at the match for the atmosphere.
Work committments is a lie as anyone who works on a sunday is liable to work on a saturday too.
The only people whinging are the fairweather supporters who would rather sit on their fat ar5es drinking beer then getting to the stadium to support the team!
I remember last seasons uefa cup when it was a bit cold, there was more lasses and old fellas there then internet geeks, if you are a whinger be ashamed for being a jessie!

sasboro Posted on 14/7 11:06
re: season tickets refund

but if it's a business on the other hand the consumer should have more rights. I guess the problem is that the club may have already spent the season ticket money and if the team were struggling in january. there would be financial problems if many wanted a partial refund

gravy173 Posted on 14/7 11:06
re: season tickets refund

you mean a business not a community football club

Thats funny cos that is what we are continuously told by the clubs propaganda machine the gazette, when was the last time pictures were up of cooper and downing going into a primary school. the club cant be the community club and a business at the same time without expecting some form of criticism

captain5 Posted on 14/7 11:06
re: season tickets refund

Fair point Craig.

I'm glad you've taken a lot of time to look at the situation, rather than just simplify it.

gravy - which was what I was trying to point out.

--- Post edited by captain5 on 14/7 11:07 ---

Craigmas Posted on 14/7 11:22
re: season tickets refund

I appologise to any vicars out there, who obviously wouldnt be lieing about work committments on a sunday!
Get the verger to do the evening service.

fatharrywhite Posted on 14/7 11:23
re: season tickets refund

if they fans arent entitled to a refund then yes they should be refused point blank for one.

Jezz37 Posted on 14/7 11:24
re: season tickets refund

It is certain that eight of the first nine home matches have been moved. Given that the ninth is on the weekend after the UEFA Cup then it is fairly certain that the ninth will go as well. This is beyond everyone's expectations. For those living on Teesside and the environs this could be regarded as a minor inconvenience - for those living some distance away it is a major inconvenience. Travelling on a Sunday (by car or train) is inevitably harder than on a Saturday. Late kick-offs make train travel an impossiblity in certain cases. The club have gained substantially as a result but many fans have lost out and will miss more matches than they expected to when they sent in their renewals. Personally, I accept missing 3 or 4 home games per season due to other commitments, and expect that 4 or 5 will be moved to inconvenient times. But not 100%.
The club's intransigent and arrogant stance on the matter is ethically unjustifiable, as well as foolish in customer relations terms. Not many of those who have been treated in this way will choose to renew next season. Although I am not a lawyer I also think it is questionable legally on two counts. First, because they are refusing to allow individuals to cancel a contract before performance of the contract has begun - the club cannot claim that they have incurred costs as a result of any cancellation as they can resell the seat. Secondly, because they have altered ALL known kick-off times - whilst their conditions of issue allow them to change kick-off times a court might decide that changing ALL times and then refusing to offer refunds was unreasonable, and might therefore disregard the clause and assume that they have broken the contract. The club will not want to give way on this because it would set an alarming precedent.. and I am not sure whether I want to be the one to take them on. However, I am reluctant to allow Mr Allan and co to trample over me in such an arrogant manner.

junk_yard_dog Posted on 14/7 11:29
re: season tickets refund

hear, hear, Jezz.

Robbo1986 Posted on 14/7 11:29
re: season tickets refund

One upshot of this is that people will not renew STs until the TV fixtures are published; so much for the club getting the cash in early and being able to spend on players etc.

fatharrywhite Posted on 14/7 11:31
re: season tickets refund

except you should read the terms and conditions jezz:

"4. Changes to Dates, Refunds and Exchanges

4.1 No guarantees can be given by the Club that a Match will take place at a particular time or on a particular date. The Club reserves the right to reschedule any Match without notice and without any liability whatsoever. Your Season Ticket will enable you to attend the re-arranged Match.

4.2 The Club will have no further liability whatsoever, including (but not limited to) any direct or consequential loss or damage, loss of enjoyment or travel costs.

shaun_84 Posted on 14/7 11:32
re: season tickets refund

They do consider refunds for individually bought tickets no later than 24 hours before ko..

Leeds don't do season ticket refunds:
http://www.lufc.talentarena.co.uk/cgi-dta/terms_conditions.mac/main

(Number 14)

Link: refunds

janplanner Posted on 14/7 11:33
re: season tickets refund

it does seem extremely shabby that the club won't refund a purchase. i thought we had statutory rights as consumers?

--- Post edited by janplanner on 14/7 11:34 ---

Jezz37 Posted on 14/7 11:40
re: season tickets refund

Fatharry - you can include anything you like in terms and conditions and people do in order to frighten customers from suing them. It would be up to a court to determine whether or not the condition is fair and applicable - a court MIGHT decide that, whilst the term itself is accpetable, to change EVERY known kick-off time is, technically-speaking, taking the p**s - to subsequently deny refunds prior to the start of performance of the contract would be totally unjustifiable.

pjd123 Posted on 14/7 11:42
re: season tickets refund

wait till all these people cant go to the cup finals etc and they will soon be crying

fatharrywhite Posted on 14/7 11:43
re: season tickets refund

sorry jezz but you wouldnt have a leg to stand on!!! the terms and conditions are there in writing for all to see! doesnt matter if it is 1,5 or all the games!

have also being doing a search for clubs doing refunds. cant find much but just to say that as well as leeds, fulham dont either except in 'exceptional circumstances'.

"- Refunds on Season Tickets will only be considered in exceptional circumstances and on a discretionary basis, and should be put in writing to the Club Secretary, Lee Hoos, Fulham FC Training Ground, Motspur Park, New Malden, Surrey, KT3 6PT.

boroboy75 Posted on 14/7 11:43
re: season tickets refund

Who's got a Leeds season ticket?

janplanner Posted on 14/7 11:44
re: season tickets refund

shaun has, didn't you know?

shaun_84 Posted on 14/7 11:45
re: season tickets refund

I bought it with my refund money

Mr_Bridger Posted on 14/7 11:48
re: season tickets refund

I've tried to get a refund for the Liverpool game as I'm away on holiday. Ticket office have told me I can't have one.
So I've got to try and sell 2 tickets before I go away.

toshino Posted on 14/7 11:49
re: season tickets refund

Well said Craigmas, excellent summing up. The analogies with consumer law and it's application to "High Street" retail business is a really contentious when it is used in comparison to supporting your local football team.

Many would say the investment and sacrifices involved , is an emotional one, bordering almost on the spiritual, and the financial cost has to be weighed against other commitments.

I for one have gone on public record criticising the club's inflexible strategy on ticketing and pricing, especially the lack of consideration toward juniors, students, famallies and O.A.P.s. And lack of loyalty to season ticket holders.

This is the way to show your displeasure, not by" voting with your feet" when the club is on the verge of ggreater things, I.M.H.O. it is a strategy that is totally unjustified and would not happen at other clubs, lokk at Manyoo.


The disappointing tone of the discussions here though are this "us and them " mentality, an apparent deep dissatisfaction and bitterness towards "the club", we are all "the club".


The reality is that most football fans in this country cast a jealous eye on how this club is lead at the top, by an apparent philanthropic local fan made good. It's obvious to me that either many people have short memories of, or did not live through the pre Gibson era when we were bled dry by local corner shop type business men, in return for mediocrity, who had no ambition, other than to to line their own pockets.

shaun_84 Posted on 14/7 11:50
re: season tickets refund

I'm sure you'll find some Liverpool fans, Mr Bridger

B_J_H Posted on 14/7 11:50
re: season tickets refund

It doesn't matter what the terms and conditions say, if this goes to the small claims court a judge will make a decision based on what he/she thinks is reasonable. I think it's highly likely the club will lose if it went to the small claims court, just like some of the major electronics manufacturers have lost when they tried to impose 1 year guarantees on such items as TV sets and video recorders.

The club would be very foolish if they let this go to court, in fact I think they're being very foolish by dragging their feet. I wonder how many people will send in their renewals early next year after this?

fatharrywhite Posted on 14/7 11:57
re: season tickets refund

the club wouldnt lose because you buy the ticket under the terms and conditions stated. i'll still be buying my ticket early next season cos i couldnt give a toss if all the games were live on the TV it is infinitely better at the ground.

as i've said earlier, the vast majority of games were moved last season and 5 home games were on sky. it is only an issue cos this season all the live games are at the beginning of the season

Red_Clowne Posted on 14/7 12:00
re: season tickets refund

As a supporter who does a 220 mile round trip, I look at it this way.

I sent off for my ST fully intending to go to all the home matches and willingly committed my 500.

That now is dead money. If I cannot get to any of the home matches and they are on TV, apart from the atmosphere I have lost nothing. In fact I will have saved money (the fuel for the van, the diet-cokes in the Navvy, the burger etc) and I will have saved myself 5 hours driving up and down the M1, M18, A1, A19 and A66.

I will also have saved 45 minutes queueing to get from the ground to the A66 after the match, and I'll get to bed at a reasonable time.

AND I don't miss the match.


captain5 Posted on 14/7 12:02
re: season tickets refund

Can you loan me 500 and then write it off as dead money, please??

B_J_H Posted on 14/7 12:03
re: season tickets refund

fatharrywhite, I don't think you read what I wrote. Small clains courts often disregard terms and conditions if those terms and conditions are deemed to be unreasonable. As consumers we have statutory rights, those rights cannot be compromised by unreasonable terms and conditions.

There have been plenty of examples of terms and conditions being disregarded by courts.

Regardless of the legality of this, the club shouldn't be treating customers in this way, it's not the way to run a successful business.

johnboy72 Posted on 14/7 12:04
re: season tickets refund

Hi Soxy,

Myself,Junk yard Dog and others have been trying to cancel - discussed under previous thread 'Season Ticket cancellations '.The club will not allow us to cancel.They have a policy of non - cancellation and it appears they will not go back on this.

I am now going to enjoy my last season as a season ticket holder and thereafter pay as you go.

My unhappiness is not that that I would prefer to watch it on Sky, I wouldn't but the rearranged kick off times make it difficult for me to attend as believe it or not I have a life outside of the Boro.

Jezz37 Posted on 14/7 12:05
re: season tickets refund

Well FatHarry, thats your opinion - mine is that the club would be short of legs to stand on. Trouble is that law is also about opinions, in terms of interpreting the statutes. But what I would find of interest is whether their action would be regarded as "reasonable" under Section 3(1)(2)(b)(i) of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977. That is the reason why changing 100% of kick-off times (rather than one or two) is relevant. See below for detail:

3 Liability arising in contract.

(1) This section applies as between contracting parties where one of them deals as consumer or on the other's written standard terms of business.
(2) As against that party, the other cannot by reference to any contract term--
(a) when himself in breach of contract, exclude or restrict any liability of his in respect of the breach; or
(b) claim to be entitled--
(i) to render a contractual performance substantially different from that which was reasonably expected of him, or
(ii) in respect of the whole or any part of his contractual obligation, to render no performance at all,
except in so far as (in any of the cases mentioned above in this subsection) the contract term satisfies the requirement of reasonableness.

captain5 Posted on 14/7 12:05
re: season tickets refund

Terms and condition of sale mean pretty much jack in terms of how a court would rule.

If all terms and conditions in small print were adhered to then businesses would not be able to do business with each other.

I have it in my t and c of my works contract that I would have to give 4 weeks notice. Do I have to? No.

I had to at my last job as well and they got the statutory 1 week.

The club are in a similar situation here. If you act reasonably when requesting a refund, for example offering to pay a small admin charge, then if it got to court, that would be looked upon favourably. Intransigence on the other hand would tend to make you lose a case.

Craigmas Posted on 14/7 12:18
re: season tickets refund

Everybody who supported the boro last season knew that as we are in the uefa cup a lot of games will be on a sunday, now some are whinging and surprised that games are played on sunday!
Id rather go on a saturday afternoon, but the price of success is sunday football im afraid, you cant have both.
Too many boro fans arent happy unless they are whinging!

Capybara Posted on 14/7 12:24
re: season tickets refund

I think it is fair to say that some of those taking issue with the club on this one are among the least whingey posters on this message board.

captain5 Posted on 14/7 12:25
re: season tickets refund

Apart from me, of course.

sasboro Posted on 14/7 12:27
re: season tickets refund

but if you can hardly make any of the first 8 games due to time changes then whats the point in having a season ticket?

Craigmas Posted on 14/7 12:30
re: season tickets refund

Why cant you make hardly any of the 1st games? Whats the difference between a saturday and sunday?
If you work sundays you generally work saturdays too, in fact less shops are open on a sunday so it should be an advantage for a lot of people.

Craigmas Posted on 14/7 12:32
re: season tickets refund

The only real reason these people want refunds is cos its on telly and they rather sit on their ar5es watching telly and spend the money on fags and beer!
I got em sussed!

sasboro Posted on 14/7 12:34
re: season tickets refund

maybe they want to watch it on tv and save the cash to spend on their family! absolute shocking if you ask me!
you got a family to look after craigmas

--- Post edited by sasboro on 14/7 12:35 ---

ccole Posted on 14/7 12:35
re: season tickets refund

Am I right in thinking that 5 of the re-aranged games would have been moved anyway due to the UEFA cup?

sasboro Posted on 14/7 12:37
re: season tickets refund

cant be cos of the uefa cup cos we have a 2 legged round before the group stage, i think

fatharrywhite Posted on 14/7 12:40
re: season tickets refund

that's all very well jezz.....but the live games were moved cos of SKY TV not the club who cant do anything about it without breaking their contract with sky. all these whingers should be taking it up with them not the club.

captain5 Posted on 14/7 12:41
re: season tickets refund

Not the case, the business relationship is with the club in relation to season tickets.

Boromart Posted on 14/7 12:48
re: season tickets refund

"we'll be creaming in more than most from the Sky league fixtures. It's the European deal where we won't get the same, not if we're on Channel5 again this year."

Slightly off topic, but we will be competing with Bolton for Channel5 / ITV2 / BBC UEFA cup coverage.

3 channels and only two teams. Arguably after a succesful first UEFA campaign, with a more attractive and attack minded side, we should be in the box seat to get some good money out of ITV2 as the highest payer. Unless of course the blue or red bindippers get knocked out of the chumps league.

captain5 Posted on 14/7 12:50
re: season tickets refund

ITV will be waiting to see how Newcassell do in the Intertoto.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 14/7 12:52
re: season tickets refund

yes, let's not forget the Geordies

do you think the BBC will consider either us or Bolton as major viewing?

Craigmas Posted on 14/7 12:54
re: season tickets refund

Just got married sas. Wife a season ticket holder too, neither of us can think of a better way to spend 43 a month each (on finance).
We spent over 1200 on a weeks holiday, A holidays something to look foward too, to me so's a boro game, so i get more to look foward too for less money.

fatharrywhite Posted on 14/7 12:55
re: season tickets refund

yes but it's out of the clubs hands the fixtures changing.

besides, i'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that others have hinted at......the ones wanting refunds are simply those that cant be a_rsed to go to the stadium and actually support the side.

sweeping statement is about to be said but i'd guess that 95% of those wanting refunds are the riverside/juninho bandwagon jumpers.....

sasboro Posted on 14/7 12:58
re: season tickets refund

Craigmas, good on you!

I guess everyone have their level that they say enough is enough, some of those cancelling might have been going to boro games for over 10 years. The problem is once gone they are lost forever and the club doesnt seem concerned about trying to win fans back. if i couldnt make 75% of home games then i would just go match to match and not get a season ticket, as i wouldnt see the benefit of having a season ticket anymore

NorfolknGood Posted on 14/7 13:00
re: season tickets refund

have you actually received the season tickets.

I thought there was a backlog to be sent out.

If they havent sent it out when younmade the request then surely they hadnt sold it to you at the time.

fatharrywhite Posted on 14/7 13:03
re: season tickets refund

this 'cant get to the games' simply doesnt wash. i'm willing to bet that over the course of next season we will have had exactly the same amount of games moved cos of europe/sky as last season. there were no compaints then and no demanding refunds.

everyone knew when they applied for their ST that a good proportion of games would be moved, it just so happends that they are all in the first half of the season.

red_rebel Posted on 14/7 13:13
re: season tickets refund

Whatever the legalities I think the club should give refunds to anyone who asks and maybe offer some olive branch and understanding rather than be hostile and difficult.

These people were season ticket holders so it is fair to say they have been loyal and have put their cash in over the years. They deserve some gratitude in return.

The club should treat them as valued regular customers. They may not have bought this time but they can be lured back in the future if treated well now.

They should all be kept on record and sent a nice letter in December offering a half-season ticket at an unbeliveable Christmas price, possibly at the same discount being offered now.

It would be stupid to burn bridges with a vital part of the fan base. Boro need everyone possible on board, even if they have wobbled a bit at som epoint.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 14/7 13:15
re: season tickets refund

Could this be a maiden century for Soxy?

sasboro Posted on 14/7 15:14
re: season tickets refund

i am sure many companies give refunds or bend the rules to keep the customers happy. maybe boro are the football equavalent to easyjet.

I thought the customer is always right, even if they arent.

i think they should give refunds this time and then offer a season ticket later in the year

ryallsy Posted on 14/7 16:24
re: season tickets refund

I tried for a compromise. I asked for my 2 season tickets to be changed into concessions in the names of my mum and stepfather. I figured the club would be happy with 1/2 the money + the price of upgrades when me and the wife start coming again after Christmas.

The club phoned me up and told me if that's what I wanted to do, they would be changing them into White Books.

I told them to send me the cheque back.

A$$holes.

originalredordead Posted on 14/7 20:02
re: season tickets refund

FatHarryWhite - your sweeping statements on this subject have finally got me to rise to the bait.

I have written to the club asking for a refund on my season ticket. I am not alone. The reason for doing so is quite simple -

The club have agreed to the re-scheduling of the matches as in the words of Mr Allan "...the Sky contract is a lucrative one that benefits clubs in their ability to purchase and pay star players. It also boosts the other commercial objectives by increasing our exposure and brand."
I have no problem with the club doing this, however I personally find the number of re-scheduled games now unacceptable. My reasons for this are my own business. I have therefore asked the club not to re-new my season ticket and refund me the money rather than send me the ticket. This decision was not taken lightly. I am an S prefix red book holder and will be losing the privileges of years of financial investment in the club.The club has responded by informing me "that it is our policy that refunds are not given on season tickets".

I am now left with the following courses of action:-

A. Accept the situation as is and use the ticket for the games I can and want to make, give no more money to the club, consign next years season ticket renewal to the bin and never visit the Riverside again.

B. Take legal action against the club to recover the money and cut all my ties with the club

Either course of action results ensures that my connections with the club will be severed after nigh on 23 years supporting the Boro home and away.

I am saddened that after all these years of loyal support for the club I have been placed in this position. I fail to see how the club would be losing out by refunding me. They will still be receiving the revenue from Sky TV and have the opportunity to sell my seat to someone else (assuming the demand is there).
The irony is the club would probably end up making more money out of me if they did refund me. I would then have to buy the tickets for the games I did go to at match day prices. Over the season this is likely to add up to more than the season ticket price. Only with the Boro could we arrive in such a FUBAR situation.

Regardless of what happens with regard to my season ticket I will be there when the season starts. Whether this is my last season ever will depend on whether the club are prepared to act more honourably than they currently indicate.

post_edit Posted on 14/7 20:13
re: season tickets refund

bing...

johnboy72 Posted on 14/7 21:42
re: season tickets refund

Hi originalredordead

I agree wholeheartedly with your comments.

I too am an 'S' tried to cancel my renewal and have received the same bespoke letter from Dave Allan.

I did not take the decision to cancel lightly, however it will be a lot easier when it comes to the next renewal.

If this continues the games will only be attended by a smaller hard core of locally based fans.Fans that cannot stomach the increased disruption and inconvenience will stay away or pay as you go.

I cannot believe that football has surrendered control of its own game and only product.

Jezz37 Posted on 15/7 8:47
re: season tickets refund

well said, originalredordead - my sentiments exactly. I am more than happy to accept that I will not get priority for any cup finals than come up in the future - I watched the CC and FA Cup Finals on TV despite the fact that I attended more than half of that season's matches (mainly away) as a non-ST Holder (though of course the club's willingness to sell STs and then cup final tickets for Cardiff after we qualified for the final has somewhat undermined that benefit for full ST holders in any event.)The club's behaviour is shoddy and short-sighted - I have written again to DA but think it will be in vain - they hold the cards and know it, because regardless of the legal rights or wrongs they know that any claim will take so long to be processed that the ST-holder will be left in a quandary as to whether or not to start using the ticket - and if you do start using the ticket, then you have increased the strength of their case.

Jezz37 Posted on 15/7 8:49
re: season tickets refund

BTW - whats the reference on your letter - mine is 171/05 - be interesting to see who has got the highest number!

--- Post edited by Jezz37 on 15/7 8:49 ---

junk_yard_dog Posted on 15/7 10:32
re: season tickets refund

It would be jezz except mine bears the same number

Jimmiesnohassel Posted on 15/7 11:19
re: season tickets refund

Here's a possible loophole that will allow people to obtain a refund...... good luck.

New regulations for business to consumer distance selling in 2000 cover mail order purchases. Key features of the regulations:

1. the consumer must be given clear information about the goods or services offered
2. after making a purchase the consumer must be sent confirmation
3. consumer has a cooling-off period of 7 working days

My uderstanding is that the confirmation of your purchase is receipt of your season ticket book, you then by law have a 7 day cooling off period.

It's worth a go.

Link: Distance Selling Regulations

bozo83 Posted on 15/7 13:36
re: season tickets refund

"Accept the situation as is and use the ticket for the games I can and want to make, give no more money to the club, consign next years season ticket renewal to the bin and never visit the Riverside again.

B. Take legal action against the club to recover the money and cut all my ties with the club

Either course of action results ensures that my connections with the club will be severed after nigh on 23 years supporting the Boro home and away."

All this because we have 7 home games on sky, we had 5 last year, i tink its quite pathetic. All your bothered about is the money. Your love for money outweighs your love for the club simple. I hope you and the people like you dont come any more

captain5 Posted on 15/7 13:38
re: season tickets refund

I think you'll find that it's the club's love for our money that causes all the problems here.

sasboro Posted on 15/7 13:40
re: season tickets refund

5 last year..and 7 this year..but how many over the full season about 12?

footiefan100 Posted on 15/7 13:42
re: season tickets refund

Well said bozo-let the moaning part-timing tv-watchers pisss of and leave the Riverside to real Boro fans

sasboro Posted on 15/7 13:43
re: season tickets refund

i agree, dont let anyone in the riverside unless they have a seaosn ticket and the boro badge tattooed on their arse cheek

MyBoro Posted on 15/7 14:00
re: season tickets refund

part-time tv watching - but with more money coming from SKY the tv audience is keeping the club going.

As a real fan when we are on TV you have a duty to support SKY so they can support our club.

bozo83 Posted on 15/7 14:01
re: season tickets refund

Captain5 did the club twist these peoples arms behind there back til they signed their renewal formor did they agree of their own free will but just want their money back cos they can watch it at home?

like you said i hope these people stay home and whinge and people in the Riverside who want to be there get behind the team

sasboro Posted on 15/7 14:01
re: season tickets refund

good point, take away the armchair viewers then we would have to sell most of our players

Capybara Posted on 15/7 14:04
re: season tickets refund

All the TV money does is push fees and salaries up. Does no one else any good at all. Apart from Sky shareholders. Like I said the other day. Football and the world in general would be a whole lot better if Sky didn't exist.

bozo83 Posted on 15/7 14:08
re: season tickets refund

Who wants to take away the armchair viewers sas? (Another good point)

Why doesnt every1 subscribe to sky have the riverside empty Boro will have more money and get better players

sasboro Posted on 15/7 14:10
re: season tickets refund

how much do you get in from season tickets compared to sky money(plus sky prize money) i imagine pretty close

captain5 Posted on 15/7 14:19
re: season tickets refund

bozo83

You either want the club to be business like or you don't.

I do and you could argue that the club are protecting their revenue.

However, with that change of management and organisational style, they have to realise that they also have a responsibility to themselves and also their customers, who in this case have more than a business relationship in mind (steady Fischer).

I know (and I bet everyone on here who lives locally is exactly the same) dozens of people, especially older people who consider themselves Middlesborugh fans, however don't have any sort of business relationship with the club.

At some point, they were so hacked off with the club they stopped going; they found other (better?) things to do with their time and spend their money on. They never got back in the habit. Some people reach a point when they say enough is enough and for some fans, this is it.

I am going to guess and forgive me if this incorrect, that (as with shaun_84) the '83' relates to your date of birth, meaning you are either only 21-2 or of the same age as Piquet and Capybara.

If it is the former, then live football on TV is something that you have known pretty much all your life, as has the change of dates and times to kick offs to suit the money men in the game. That means that is unlikely to be the final straw in your case.

Some people have already stopped going or are considering it because they feel that the money is spoiling the game. ou might think that they're daft, fair enough, but I think you'll understand how they came to that viewpoint.

For some people, the thought that their football club, the one that they have supplied, through thin, thinner and now happily thicker times are not willing to refund them the equivalent of 0.66 of one percent of Mark Viduka's reputed WEEKLY wages makes them feel a bit sore.

That is why they won't be back. The club will miss them, because the one thing we have found through history is that success and failure is cyclical (NUFC excepted); at some point those people will be needed ad they won't heed the call.

Think about it, 150 people cancelling would cost about what they pay Viduka for a week's 'work'.

bozo83 Posted on 15/7 14:20
re: season tickets refund

Make a silly statement then ignore any questions asked about it, i like your style!

Like i say cancel every1 cancel your 400-600 just pay sky 35 a month this way the club will have more money to buy better players, simple (Source: The Lunatics guide to econmoics 1st edition, by Sasboro)

Do MFC enter sky competitions? Thats the only prize money they give out

sasboro Posted on 15/7 14:24
re: season tickets refund

at a guess club makes 12M from season ticket sales

at a guess they get 10m from sky plus 3-4m for finishing position(comes from sky tv indirectly) and 2m from having games televised.

in the end , whether a supporter is sitting at home with a sky subscription of 400 quid per year or a season ticket at 400 quid a year. they both contribute to MFC financially. wsithout sky's cash, we wouldnt have a team full of internationals

--- Post edited by sasboro on 15/7 14:25 ---

--- Post edited by sasboro on 15/7 14:26 ---

captain5 Posted on 15/7 14:29
re: season tickets refund

bozo83 - the trick when 'debating' with sas is to recognise early on that he doesn't actually believe anything, he's just fishing for a bite by asking questions that go against your viewpoint. Shift your viewpoint slightly on each post so that after 20 or so posts you are arguing against your original post. You'll find that sas has followed you and is doing much the same with himself.

sasboro Posted on 15/7 14:32
re: season tickets refund

the trick is to admit your were wrong or contradicting yourself and then i move on

captain5 Posted on 15/7 14:33
re: season tickets refund

Only works for those who are short on time or unprincipled.

bozo83 Posted on 15/7 14:35
re: season tickets refund

His trick is to make silly coments and not respond when they are questioned?

My trick is to make him look a bigger idiot then he does himself!

I just wonder if these people who, are constantly negative find the worst in everything prefer to whinge then praise, are ever happy?

bozo83 Posted on 15/7 14:38
re: season tickets refund

Without skys money we wouldnt have any internationals, everyother club would be in the same position and all international footballers would disintergrate like the wiked witch of the west!

bozo83 Posted on 15/7 14:39
re: season tickets refund

Without skys money we wouldnt have any internationals, everyother club would be in the same position and all international footballers would melt away like the wiked witch of the west!

sasboro Posted on 15/7 14:43
re: season tickets refund

"I just wonder if these people who, are constantly negative find the worst in everything prefer to whinge then praise, are ever happy?"

and who is the one whinging on this thread.

without sky's money we would not be in the top flight - that is a fact

captain5 Posted on 15/7 14:46
re: season tickets refund

It is not a fact at all, sas.

sasboro Posted on 15/7 14:47
re: season tickets refund

how many players over last 10 years would have come to boro if we didnt have sky's money to help?

captain5 Posted on 15/7 15:06
re: season tickets refund

Same as came here if everybody else also didn't have Sky.

The only difference between us and other clubs and the reason that people come here, is not the fans, because we're as fickle as most; it's not the Sky money, as everyone else has it, it's not the area, because some people are seduced by the city lights, while others prefer peace and quiet; it's not even about the fantastic facilities at Hurworth.

At the end of the day, it's about one man, the guy who stepped in when we were most in need and still today leads us like a beacon of hope through football's wilderness.



What would we do without Keith Lamb??

--- Post edited by captain5 on 15/7 15:07 ---

skiprat Posted on 15/7 15:54
re: season tickets refund

Just read through the whole of this thread and there's nothing much I can add really, just thought I'd mention this though, Sas, you said...

"maybe they want to watch it on tv and save the cash to spend on their family! absolute shocking if you ask me!
you got a family to look after craigmas"

Surely they've already resigned to the money being spent anyway, on their season ticket, so how is this a vaild reason?