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The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 21/12 13:50
Why are people so Homophobic

All this innuendo and scandal about Elton John "marrying" David Furnish exposes some people for the homophobes they really are.

I'd love to know why people get so uptight about two people both willingingly engaging in a sexual act with each other, harming no one ?

Homophobes, care to defend yourselves ?

Arguments about "The Bible" and "Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve" will only be accepted by those who regularly attend church.

shaun_84 Posted on 21/12 13:51
re: Why are people so Homophobic

I'm not in the slightest homophobic. I'd just as much not want to think about you having sex, as thinking of gay people having sex. Or you having gay sex. With a strap-on.

mufflar Posted on 21/12 13:52
re: Why are people so Homophobic

with Rod Stewart...

Nedkat Posted on 21/12 13:52
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Thanks, that's put me right off me bagel !!

tony_block19 Posted on 21/12 13:52
re: Why are people so Homophobic

As a mate at work said yesterday..."I've got nothing against gays, it just means more women for me!"

Best Theory I've ever heard on the Homosexuality argument anyway.

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 21/12 13:52
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Yes but its different not thinking about it to been mortally offended about it, as some on here seem to be.

Boromart Posted on 21/12 13:53
re: Why are people so Homophobic

I don't think that many people are homophobes today.

I have been invited to my neighbours wedding (two gay men) in April....my only dilema is which of the two stag nights do I go on?

--- Post edited by Boromart on 21/12 13:53 ---

shaun_84 Posted on 21/12 13:53
re: Why are people so Homophobic

I doubt most really are. It's just they think it's the right thing to say for their 'male image'.

--- Post edited by shaun_84 on 21/12 13:54 ---

comfortable_shoes Posted on 21/12 13:53
re: Why are people so Homophobic

I'm not homophobic or gay, a few of the blokes I've shagged have been like.

mufflar Posted on 21/12 13:53
re: Why are people so Homophobic

you may now kiss the bride...

Nedkat Posted on 21/12 13:54
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Good luck to them. If people can find happiness together, I couldn't care less if they're of the same sex or not.

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 21/12 13:54
re: Why are people so Homophobic

"I don't think that many people are homophobes today. "

They are beleve me, look at that priest in NI protesting against two lassses getting "married" WTF has it to do with him ?

littlejimmy Posted on 21/12 13:54
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Go to both. Bonus!

RAZMOND_HWDR Posted on 21/12 13:55
re: Why are people so Homophobic

i'm not a big fan

shaun_84 Posted on 21/12 13:56
re: Why are people so Homophobic

I thought we were keeping the religious argument out of this, Lizards?

boroboy75 Posted on 21/12 13:56
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Yes go to both, be sure to enjoy the male stripper, or visit to a gay massage parlour.

mickbrown Posted on 21/12 13:56
re: Why are people so Homophobic

The same legal rights should be extended to heterosexual non married couples.

Nedkat Posted on 21/12 13:57
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Do you get a happy ending ?

If so, count me in.

tony_block19 Posted on 21/12 13:59
re: Why are people so Homophobic

If one man wants to suck another mans tallywhacker then it's got nothing to do with me. Good Luck to him, he'll need it.

Oh, I'm being narrow minded on purpose, as well as slightly sarcastic.

--- Post edited by tony_block19 on 21/12 14:02 ---

MsCurly Posted on 21/12 14:00
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Everyone is entitled to love and to be loved.

shaun_84 Posted on 21/12 14:01
re: Why are people so Homophobic

yeah, and sucked off. (Lovingly)

Noooooo, I'm playing into Lizard's hands! Not literally! Argghh innuendo now! I am a gay impartialist!

--- Post edited by shaun_84 on 21/12 14:04 ---

dandan Posted on 21/12 14:04
re: Why are people so Homophobic

"The same legal rights should be extended to heterosexual non married couples."

ohwell, made the same point with better wording...

(see below)

--- Post edited by dandan on 21/12 14:07 ---

OhWell Posted on 21/12 14:05
re: Why are people so Homophobic

"The same legal rights should be extended to heterosexual non married couples."

They are, homosexual non-married couples have the same rights as heterosexual non-marrieds.

/shrug

Boromart Posted on 21/12 14:07
re: Why are people so Homophobic

"Go to both. Bonus!" - but what if they are on at the same time?

Most of there friends are women, so I guess I will go to the stag dow ith the best looking women, and there are some crackers I can tell you.

I do have another dilema though, I bought a new bright pink (it was a pink theme) shirt for the last heteroexual wedding I went to, I have only worn it once. Will people think I am taking the pi£$ wearing a pink shirt at this wedding?

--- Post edited by Boromart on 21/12 14:12 ---

--- Post edited by Boromart on 21/12 14:13 ---

John_Waynes_Jacket Posted on 21/12 14:10
re: Why are people so Homophobic

"couples will be granted new rights in areas such as employment, pension and inheritance. But the partnerships are not officially regarded as marriages under UK law."

No such partnership is legal for a heterosexual couples.

sidog70 Posted on 21/12 14:13
re: Why are people so Homophobic

LJ - you take offence to a gay innuendo but you would not to a hetrosexual innuendo, were's the difference were all equal as you say.

No im not a homophobe before littlejimmy starts.

mickbrown Posted on 21/12 14:14
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Exactly - its a crock of shyte that somebody who has known each other for a week and gets married has more legal rights than a couple who've been together for 20 years.

What's that all about?

grantus Posted on 21/12 14:15
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Good point mufflar, does that mean that there are two grooms or does one take the bride's place, I guess it would be the one who takes it the most.

Grooming hell!

mufflar Posted on 21/12 14:17
re: Why are people so Homophobic

could you place the ring on the third finger...

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 21/12 14:17
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Who said I dont take offence to hetrosexual innuendo, or that I dont take offence to gay innuendo - I was merely asking why people choose to make such a fuss about something thats perfectly natural.

boroboy75 Posted on 21/12 14:18
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Before long, himans and animals will be able to enter into partnerships.

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 21/12 14:18
re: Why are people so Homophobic

And you'll be able to offcially announce your "girlfriend" to the world, eh bb75 ?

mickbrown Posted on 21/12 14:21
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Boromart - a wedding with a pink theme? WTF?

Let me get this straight. Someone got married and thought it would be a good idea to make everybody wear pink? And as a result of this load of bollox these people get a better deal on their tax than I do?

Sweet baby Jesus, I depair.

--- Post edited by mickbrown on 21/12 14:22 ---

boroboy75 Posted on 21/12 14:22
re: Why are people so Homophobic

They'll be letting them adopt children next.


What........?

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 21/12 14:23
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Why do you despair Mick, simply because someone chose to have "their" day as they wanted it ?

Boromart Posted on 21/12 14:28
re: Why are people so Homophobic

"Let me get this straight. Someone got married and thought it would be a good idea to make everybody wear pink?" - yup. She is ever so slightly chav, but I work with her so what could I do, I had to go and had to wear pink?

mickbrown Posted on 21/12 14:28
re: Why are people so Homophobic

LIzards - no they can do what they want, but why should having a big piss up and wearing a daft suit give you enhanced legal rights?

Load of bollox.

Boromart - you're a better man than me, I'd have "lost" my invitation.

--- Post edited by mickbrown on 21/12 14:29 ---

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 21/12 14:32
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Because they choose to legally confirm their relationship, it doesn't really matter what happens at the wedding, its the actual act of marrige that gives them more legal rights (and quite rightly in my opinion).

And I speak as someone who lives with my girlfriend in a house we jointly own, so I suffer from the same discrimination as I guess you do.

bandito Posted on 21/12 14:39
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Lizard, I suspect touches of the will young about you.

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 21/12 14:40
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Mrs Jumpers probably wishes I had the look of Will Young.

BoroDavi Posted on 21/12 14:41
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Good luck to them I say, I've been a lesbian all my life.

--- Post edited by BoroDavi on 21/12 14:43 ---

Lisbonlegend Posted on 21/12 14:53
re: Why are people so Homophobic

It's the campness, it really annoys me. There's really no need.

mickbrown Posted on 21/12 15:03
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Lizards - if you're in the same boat as me, why do you think they should get more legal rights?

Consider the following example, 2 people have known each other a week, decide on a whim to go to Vegas. They get pissed and think it'll be a laugh to get wed dressed as Elvis.

Two other people have been together for 20 years,have kids, have bought a house etc. Why are they being discriminated against?

--- Post edited by mickbrown on 21/12 15:03 ---

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 21/12 15:05
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Simply because they have made a legal commitment to each other as well as an emotional one.

Taking my example we could split up, sell the house and split the profits tommorow wheras if we were married then it wouldnt be that simple. The law recognises the legal commitment made to each other when awarding benefits, tax breaks etc.

John_Waynes_Jacket Posted on 21/12 15:07
re: Why are people so Homophobic

all mick is asking is why can't heterosexual couples have the opportunity to make the same legal commitment without having to get married.

mickbrown Posted on 21/12 15:08
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Lizard's - that's bollox.

Is far easier to walk away from a marriage than from a mortgage.

--- Post edited by mickbrown on 21/12 15:08 ---

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 21/12 15:10
re: Why are people so Homophobic

"Is far easier to walk away from a marriage than from a mortgage."

No it's not.

If you are that concerned about these tax breaks etc, and marriage is so easy to walk away from why dont you just get married ?

irishjohn Posted on 21/12 15:10
re: Why are people so Homophobic

I aint got anything against the gay people.
However the worst scenario I heard was my friend dad was accused and confronted about being gay he replied.

" Im not gay I just help them out when their busy"

mickbrown Posted on 21/12 15:15
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Lizards - course it is.

Walk out on your marriage, nobody would bat an eyelid.

Walk out on your mortgage, the bank will have your bollox.

Each to his own but I just think that in this day and age, to skew the tax and pension benefits to married couples is completely outdated.

--- Post edited by mickbrown on 21/12 15:16 ---

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 21/12 15:17
re: Why are people so Homophobic

"Walk out on your marriage, nobody would bat an eyelid.

Walk out on your mortgage, the bank will have your bollox."


Neither is that simple Mick, you cant just "walk out" on a marriage and you wouldnt just "walk out" on a mortage either.

peako_from_the_boro Posted on 21/12 15:17
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Mick

What is the technical difference between a homosexual civil partnership and a registery office hetrosexual marriage ceremony.

I was under the impression that the only difference was the wording, and by not using the word marriage for the gay couples ceremony would be one less reason for the anti's to complain about it.

As for the homophobic protestors did anyone else have a chuckle at the placards the anti's were holding outside Belfast city hall with "Sodomy is a sin" which greeted the first lesbian couple.

Lefty3668 Posted on 21/12 15:18
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Hence Phillip Green can take £1.2 billion tax free, mickbrown.

There, that's my bit done for you T_L_J.

mickbrown Posted on 21/12 15:21
re: Why are people so Homophobic

peako_from_the_boro - nothing.

What I'm arguing is that the tax breaks etc associated with marriage/ civil partnership thingies should be done away with or everybody gets them, regardless of a piece of paper.

--- Post edited by mickbrown on 21/12 15:27 ---

mickbrown Posted on 21/12 15:22
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Lefty3668

What happened with Philip Green?

mickbrown Posted on 21/12 15:23
re: Why are people so Homophobic

"Neither is that simple Mick, you cant just "walk out" on a marriage"

Beg to differ mate. Happens everyday of the week, all over the country.

shaun_84 Posted on 21/12 15:24
re: Why are people so Homophobic

It's the last 30 posts that are the hardest. Good luck, Lizards, this looks slightly promising.

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 21/12 15:30
re: Why are people so Homophobic

"Beg to differ mate. Happens everyday of the week, all over the country."


Not quite, they might walk away from the family home and partner but they are still legally married and it's the start of a long process to actually become "unmarried".

Buddy Posted on 21/12 15:34
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Could somebody tell me what these tax breaks are please??

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 21/12 15:35
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Yes please tell him , I reckon about 40 posts worth of information should make sure he understands fully.

Lefty3668 Posted on 21/12 15:38
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Mick,

His wife is a resident of Monaco, all the shares are in her name, they took all the group profits as a dividend (which already has notional tax paid of 10%) and had no more tax to pay.

He is a UK resident. If the income of the 'couple' was treated as a 50/50 split say then the exchequer would have received something like a further £135m rather than nothing.

PhillyMac Posted on 21/12 15:49
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Mick - why don't you just do a civil union if you want the benefits?

Two business partners can be doing business together for 20 years with a handshake.

Another two can start a business and formalise it with a legally-binding contract.

The latter will get more protection under the law.

The problem is that law needs things to be black and white. When should 'living together' be treated the same as being married? It's easy to say that after 20 years of mortgages and kids you should be counted as married, but what about after 5 years and one child? Or ten years and no children? Or two children but you rent.

You're either married or you're not.

It's not as easy if you don't get married.

KENNDAL Posted on 21/12 18:16
re: Why are people so Homophobic

I find it difficult to understand why a bloke would want to stick his fist up another blokes backside. THAT IS NOT NORMAL.

boro_bliss Posted on 21/12 18:19
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Good post, Mr. Tees.

Revol_Tees Posted on 21/12 18:21
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Why thank you, Boro Bliss

boro_bliss Posted on 21/12 18:27
re: Why are people so Homophobic



Well, I think people should accept people, who are homosexual. I mean, who cares if you love men or women?
It is their choice, if you are heterosexual, then you are heterosexual. If you are homosexual, well, then it is fine aswell.
As long as people are happy with their sexual life, then it should not play any role, whether somebody is gay or not.

sidog70 Posted on 21/12 18:31
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Personally dont have a problem if there consenting adults then there allowed to date/marry whoever they want to, but i also believe its not natural.

I believe men and women were created to procreate and the men and men scenario goes against evolution but like i say each to there own.

mickbrown Posted on 21/12 18:32
re: Why are people so Homophobic

The_Commisar - is that right?

Never knew that.

OhWell Posted on 21/12 19:08
re: Why are people so Homophobic

"the men and men scenario goes against evolution"

Civilisation halts evolution. The "weaker" members of the species that would normally be "naturally selected" for extinction are helped to survive by the civilised "stronger" members of the species. Like food aid for the starving in Africa.

Please note. I don't necessarily subscribe to this theory, just trying to keep the post going to TLJ get's his 100 :)

/needs more "'s

edit: spelling

--- Post edited by OhWell on 21/12 19:08 ---

tees_tug Posted on 21/12 19:22
re: Why are people so Homophobic

I think it is probably a good thing allowing homosexuals to shack up with each other.

This means that those who are infected with the homosexual DNA/genepool, will no longer breed and produce offspring.

Homosexuality will therefore die a natural death.

Where as in days gone by, gays hid there deviancy and married unsuspecting woman, and produced children who would become or would produce homosexual children.

Therefore natural selection will in fact eradicate homosexuality from the human race. This can only be a good thing and lead to a more normal and heterosexual society.

And there will be no need for any homophobia!

Cobain_94 Posted on 21/12 19:30
re: Why are people so Homophobic

I go totally against the men are made to pro create, no one's meant to do anything, we are born, we exist and then we die, the next generation does the same until the world ends. There's no point to any of it, I'm of the view that if it does me no harm I'll let them get on with it.

Doesn't stop me using different terms for gay to insult people though. That's not serious though.

borobadge Posted on 21/12 19:35
re: Why are people ..........

theres nowt so queer as folk.....

its amazing to see different peoples views and opinions on such a matter..

littlejimmy Posted on 21/12 19:38
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Nice try tugsdale.

And for anyone who says it's not natural, read this:

Link: Birds do it, bees do it...

OhWell Posted on 21/12 19:43
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Birds doing it is fine by me.

Revol_Tees Posted on 21/12 19:45
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Exactly. It's a self evident fact that "sexuality" is seperate from "reproduction" anyway. That's been widely acknowledged for over a century, although there is a lot of evidence on this thread that old religious propaganda still forms a part of most people's common sense. Sexual desire does not necessarily conform to a biological instinct to reproduce, and never has. Believe it or not (and this will come as a revelation to some), fancying someone need not have anything to do with wanting to "reproduce" at all, and usually doesn't.

littlejimmy Posted on 21/12 19:45
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Good point. A lot of these anti-gay men don't mind it when two ladies get it on.

borobuddah Posted on 21/12 19:46
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Because they are scared and want to distance themselves from the ridicule, hatred and ignorance that is heaped upon the heads of gays and lesbians.

Also not having ordinary contact with non-heterosexuals because of the same attitudes.

Like what Badgie said.

sidog70 Posted on 21/12 19:58
re: Why are people so Homophobic

LJ thats just horses for courses

littlejimmy Posted on 21/12 20:04
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Neigh, lad.

keithadams11 Posted on 21/12 20:09
re: Why are people so Homophobic

ITS NOT MARRIAGE they are becoming a legal couple

MontagueLongfellow Posted on 21/12 20:13
re: Why are people so Homophobic


Link: this thread

Matelot Posted on 21/12 20:50
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Just to add my 10 bob worths to this....

The argument of littejimmy is that Homosexual acts take place in every species on the planet.
Well acts of incest take place with every species on that planet, it still does not make it right does it?

We as human beings have the power of reasoning and rational thought, therefore we know better than other animals.

borobadge Posted on 21/12 20:56
re: Why are people so Homophobic

so what is it your scared of ?

juninhosmum Posted on 21/12 20:56
re: Why are people so Homophobic

I'm just waiting for this government to restore the married man's tax allowance.... to single-sex couples only. All in the name on inclusivity of course.

neiltrodden Posted on 21/12 20:57
re: Why are people so Homophobic

I can't exactly explain what makes me find one partner attractive over another but it certainly isn't "reasoning and rational thought".

We could look at us as animals and suggest that instinct and evolutionary need makes one thing normal and another abnormal but we'd end up justfying a lot of bad, uncivilised behaviour along with it. Let's not forget that people who are attracted to people of the opposite sex don't do it because they rationalise it and look at what is good for survival of the species, we do it because we are driven by natural instincts that we really can't resist.

tees_tug Posted on 21/12 21:13
re: Why are people so Homophobic

"Sexual desire does not necessarily conform to a biological instinct to reproduce, and never has."

I find that a dumb statement. The whole purpose of every living thing on this planet is to reproduce and keep the species alive.

For most living things, sexual desire is the key to reproduction. The intense pleasure/desire for sex is the main motivating factor that drives creatures to create a new generation.

This has absolutely nothing to do with religion. Most religions in fact seem to see sex as a diversion from faith.

Sex does equal reproduction. Fact.

borobadge Posted on 21/12 21:14
re: Why are people so Homophobic

whats the difference between love and sex ?

tees_tug Posted on 21/12 21:19
re: Why are people so Homophobic

I would guess for humans, love is a selection process for a mate.

Not sure mind, some subscriber to National Geographic or whatever will give us a scientific explanation.

neiltrodden Posted on 21/12 21:20
re: Why are people so Homophobic

"Sex does equal reproduction"

It causes it but people don't have sex for reproduction. They do it because they are driven to it by an urge which can be suppresed but can't be over-ridden. Sex in our species is used for a bit more than reproduction, there are social and bonding aspects to it as well.

littlejimmy Posted on 21/12 21:20
re: Why are people so Homophobic

So homosexuality is as bad as incest is it, Matelot? We also know that killing is wrong.
I was using that to counter the "not natural" argument. Countering the bigotry of religious zealots is another thing. IT'S A SIN SIN SIN! they shout, having never sinned in their life.

neiltrodden Posted on 21/12 21:22
re: Why are people so Homophobic

1...

neiltrodden Posted on 21/12 21:22
re: Why are people so Homophobic

...hundred.

tees_tug Posted on 21/12 21:24
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Might put a smile on that miserable face of lizards_jumper.


There again.....

sidog70 Posted on 21/12 21:24
re: Why are people so Homophobic

LJ - i did say that i have no problem with it so dont brand me as a bigot, i only gave my opinion that its not natural.

littlejimmy Posted on 21/12 21:26
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Whoah, there, sid. Didn't call you a bigot. Just gave you the facts. Read the post. I said "bigotry of religious zealots".
Am I storming in with PC ramblings again?

borobadge Posted on 21/12 21:26
re: Why are people so Homophobic

its appears not to be "natural" to you..

but then your a practising heterosexual....

tees_tug Posted on 21/12 21:27
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Neil, sex IS about reproduction. The pleasure/social aspects for humans are an addition to the pleasure that drives all animals to have sex and reproduce.

The survival of the species is paramount.

tees_tug Posted on 21/12 21:29
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Jimmy, you're not one of those men who got married just to please your parents are you?


Would explain a lot that.

Buddy Posted on 21/12 21:29
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Biologically true tuggers but that only makes homosexuality as pointless as using contraception.

littlejimmy Posted on 21/12 21:33
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Shut up, tug, or I'll bum you to death.

Anyway, you're ignoring the facts.
"Neil, sex IS about reproduction. The pleasure/social aspects for humans are an addition to the pleasure that drives all animals to have sex and reproduce."
The National Geographic piece explains that animals also have sex for pleasure. But I imagine you'll just dismiss it as gay propoganda.


--- Post edited by littlejimmy on 21/12 21:35 ---

neiltrodden Posted on 21/12 21:34
re: Why are people so Homophobic

It *causes* reproduction which is driven by sexuality. That sexuality is the one thing you can't rationalise.

If survival of the species relied solely on reproduction then we wouldn't be here as our offspring are pretty useless at fending for themselves. Don't underestimate the role that love and bonding have in ensuring we are successful as a species. I am absolutely convinced that the urge to couple up (even if it isn't for life) in humans is as much a factor in our success as our ability to be driven to reproduce as a by-product of sex.

sidog70 Posted on 21/12 21:34
re: Why are people so Homophobic

i do like to practice borobadge.

LJ more like ac/dc ramblings.

littlejimmy Posted on 21/12 21:37
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Plumbing the depths for a bite. TeesTug hits a new low.

tees_tug Posted on 21/12 21:37
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Now, now Jimmy. All I meant is that if that is the case, you will not be happy until you accept it and 'come out'.

Then you would find that I would be just as kind and supportive a friend to you as if you were normal like me.

Is the wife still watching all those soaps and stuff on the telly?

Heed my advise, take this holiday time to get to know each other agian. Good luck mate.

littlejimmy Posted on 21/12 21:40
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Hee hee. Aw, bless you. You're a trier.

Matelot Posted on 21/12 21:40
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Laws are made by man.
man was made by nature.

neiltrodden Posted on 21/12 21:44
re: Why are people so Homophobic

"Laws are made by man.
man was made by nature."

I'm not really too sure what you are getting at there?

Hull_Boro Posted on 21/12 22:10
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Who would get custody of the adopted children if it all ends in divorce???
Usually the wife does.... Buckingham Palace will be packed with protesters soon!!

Revol_Tees Posted on 21/12 23:32
re: Why are people so Homophobic

I repeat: sexual desire does not necessarily conform to a biological instinct to reproduce, and never has. There are only so many ways of saying it, but if you need it spelling out in detail read any account of human sexuality - whether it be physiological or psychological - and it will stress that humans don't have sex exclusively in order to reproduce. Just because reproduction comes as a consequence of one specific type of sexual behaviour, it doesn't mean that the whole of human sexuality (in its entirety) is exclusively there for the purpose of reproducing. That argument is so reductionist it's barely credible anymore, if it ever was.

As I said earlier, that's a self-evident fact: most teenage girls and teenage boys do not have sex in order to reproduce; gay men do not have sex in order to reproduce; gay women do not have sex in order to reproduce. Most people in Britain today do not have sex in order to reproduce. Looked at in that way, reproduction is nothing more than a little consequence of *some* human sexuality.

tees_tug Posted on 21/12 23:47
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Revol, your argument gets sillier.

Do not seperate human sexual activity from other animals. The fact that we enjoy, and as humans have some control over reproduction, does not 'prove' that sex is seperate from reproduction.

"reproduction is nothing more than a little consequence of *some* human sexuality."

How stupid. Reproduction is the main aim of all living things. However big, however small. However low in the intelligence ladder or however high.

Reproduction IS the aim of all life.

Your theme of justifying homosexuality by ignoring this is rather like a sperm swimming against a fast tide.

Sexual pleasure is a by-product of reproduction.

Revol_Tees Posted on 22/12 0:28
re: Why are people so Homophobic

tug, I'm making an argument which is not only quite widely accepted, but is also based on about 100 years of academic thought and research, not just in science but in anthropology too. You sound not only like you know very little about it but also that you're not particularly interested in learning either, beyond repeating a single simple idea which you presumably remember from part of a school lesson: "Reproduction is the main aim of all living things." You'd get huge brownie points for that statement about 130 years ago, but it's ever so slightly outdated these days. You're entitled to your own interpretation, but open your mind: read up on it, ask your doctor, or go to Ibiza, take some pills and conduct your own research into Why People Have Sex. There's a whole world out there - and not every single living thing in it is interested in reproducing.

--- Post edited by Revol_Tees on 22/12 0:30 ---

Link: Sexual Nature, Sexual Culture

tees_tug Posted on 22/12 0:48
re: Why are people so Homophobic

I really think you are missing the point. Let us just agree to disagree. I just think to understand humans we must look at life in general. You, on the other hand, are stuck in/with the rather narrow human socialogical viewpoint.

The book review you link to starts; "In this multidisciplinary study of human sexuality,".

Sexuality is not exclusive to humans. You underestimate our planet. And all the living things on it.

However, your obsession with this does prove that humans decide who is leader of the pack with other methods apart from which male has the most impressive purple stonking penis.

You are beginning to be the equivilent of sexual knowledge that Commisar is of Arab history.

borobadge Posted on 22/12 0:51
re: Why are people so Homophobic

so why are you in denial of your sexuality..?

(that'll get the 200 up ..lizards..)

Revol_Tees Posted on 22/12 1:03
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Thanks tug - I'm not familiar with Commisar's work, but I'll take that as a compliment anyway

I guess we will have to agree to disagree then ... I think you're missing the point and, for what it's worth, I think you underestimate the complexities of the human race and human sexuality compared to that in the animal kingdom.

And as for obsession ... nah, this is just a little argument I thought I might dip into. After all, as soon as I noticed the thread was about homosexuality, I knew I'd find you here, and there's always something new to be learned isn't there?

borobadge Posted on 22/12 1:04
re: Why are people so Homophobic

spot on....

borobadge Posted on 22/12 1:24
re: Why are people so Homophobic

and apparently..

i am on peoples bedroom walls.....theres flattery for yer....

thinking about it..

most male football fans have pictures of clean cut, clean shaven muscle bound and well toned atheltic footballers on their bedroom walls.....

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 22/12 8:56
re: Why are people so Homophobic

* sniff, sniff *

It's like all my Christmases have come at once. I'd like to thank My Mam, Dad and other family, my friends but most of all I'd like to thank you, the public, who have made this thread what it is today.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

* Switched Gwyneth Paltrow mode off *

borobadge Posted on 22/12 9:30
re: Why are people so Homophobic

lizard..are you saying gwyneth is a lesbian..?...

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 22/12 9:32
re: Why are people so Homophobic

She must have someone else stashed away, what with her marridge to that boring tvvat Chris Martin.

red_rebel Posted on 22/12 9:58
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Tug:

I think sexuality IS exclusive to humans.

All animals engage in sexual activity but it is generally mechanistic and driven by the drive to reproduce and various chemical stimuli that encourage it.

Humans on the other hand are accutely aware of the sex act, make social and economic structures around a desire to secure it and have created a massive culture centred around it. Sexuality is a type of social consciouness that animals do not have.

Much of the arts, high brow and low brow, reflects the power and all pervasive nature of sexuality. And the popular entertainment industry is almost entirely geared towards the packaging and sale of sexuality. There is a lot of money in sexuality whichever niche area of the market you want to talk about.

One of the reasons that the gay ghettos are becoming politically significant is that the pink pound has become a major economic factor.

Gay couples have enhanced spending power. Two incomes, no kids. That makes them major players whether you like it or not. And they want to secure their financial position just like anyonme else.


That is what civil union is about. It is not about legalising sodomy or elevating a particular lifestyle choice over others. It is about economics. It is about property rights, pension rights and inheritance rights. Surely you can't be opposed to that.

speckyget Posted on 22/12 9:59
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Congrats Lizards - but remember, a century knock isn't just for Christmas.

tees_tug Posted on 22/12 10:04
re: Why are people so Homophobic

"It is about economics. It is about property rights, pension rights and inheritance rights. Surely you can't be opposed to that."

Of course not rebel. All I am saying is that all the things that surround sexual desire. The high heels, perfume, status, tanning booths, lipstick and designer clothes ara a by-product of the need to reproduce.

Get back to basics.

red_rebel Posted on 22/12 10:12
re: Why are people so Homophobic

I think all those cultural things transcend the biological urge.

For instance, there is an argument that young women get dressed up not to find a sexual partner - they can get that by shouting their request in any room that contains men - but to find a suitably affluent partner with economic clout and social status.

Much of society is arranged to facilitate that. Even in other cultures where drunken promscuity is not the norm there are avenues for the young to assess each other's worth and status by parading in their finery. Then there are arranged marriages.

If it was purely biological urges people would simply be rutting in the street like dogs... although looking at some nights down the town I concede you may have a point.



I

Lefty3668 Posted on 22/12 10:14
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Well done T_L_J. A bone fide century and a big one too. Its always more gratifying when the batsman knuckles down again at 100.

Anyway, I am sure I read somewhere that the latest research suggest that our sexual orientation is decided at the same time that our sex is decided i.e in the womb when our mothers release the chemicals to change us from female to male or not as the case may be.

red_rebel Posted on 22/12 10:20
re: Why are people so Homophobic

I think badge raised an interesting point about the unspoken homo-eroticism surrounding football.

All those hard young macho men hugging each other on the terraces, the same lads adulation of their good looking athletic heroes running around in shorts... are we all sublimating homosexual urges? What say you tug? Do you think anyone on here is a repressed bender?

NorthernRamlectric Posted on 22/12 10:21
re: Why are people so Homophobic

So it took 130 odd posts to agree on the fact that one man fisting another man is not only against nature it is down right filthy?
Or have I mis-understood?

I anticipate the day we have a gay prime minister, hell hath no fury like a homo scorned.

bobstermarley Posted on 22/12 10:22
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Don't think so red!

Can honestly say that the only footballer who's ever done anything for me is Eric Cantona.

Phwoarr!! <LOL>

red_rebel Posted on 22/12 10:23
re: Why are people so Homophobic

I'd be very surprised if we haven't had a few already.

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 22/12 10:23
re: Why are people so Homophobic

I would say that everyone has homosexual urges, the need to bond with people of thier own sex.

Some people do this in groups by hugging each other during sporting events, some like more close intimate contact with just one other person.

I think social and economic, not to mention peer pressure and education dictate how far each of us is willing to go to satisfy our homosexual urges.

Posted on 22/12 10:27
&lt;no subject&gt;

This post was removed by a site administrator

boroboy75 Posted on 22/12 10:29
re: Why are people so Homophobic

That post should send this soaring towards the 200 mark.

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 22/12 10:31
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Whilst I thank you for expressing your biggoted and not to mention frankly libellous remarks on my thread, which will no doubt make it run and run, can I just say that your are talking absolute shi te and are a t it of the highest order.

Why not get back to your own board and talk about your hatred for Forest and "Fester".

boroboy75 Posted on 22/12 10:33
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Lizard, I find the fact that you believe that every one is slightly bent, ridiculous.

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 22/12 10:35
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Could you take about 59 posts to tell me why bb75, then I'd have a double century ?

Azedarac Posted on 22/12 10:37
re: Why are people so Homophobic

"I would say that everyone has homosexual urges, the need to bond with people of thier own sex.

Some people do this in groups by hugging each other during sporting events, some like more close intimate contact with just one other person.

I think social and economic, not to mention peer pressure and education dictate how far each of us is willing to go to satisfy our homosexual urges."

That's as ridiculous as saying that everyone has heterosexual urges. Not every activity or physical contact has sexual overtones. I hugged my Dad the other week, it doesn't mean I find him sexually attractive. I also stroked my dog, does that mean I've got a latent urge to bestiality?

I see the ideal world as everyone accepting everyone for who they are. Trying to label the whole population as having homosexual urges and linking non-sexual acts to sexuality is not just wrong, it's counter-productive, reinforcing homophobia.

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 22/12 10:39
re: Why are people so Homophobic

It's also going to result in posts like yours which will keep my name at the top of the board for another couple of days.


Then world domination will be mine, all mine ......


wah hha ahhhhh ahhhhh....

littlejimmy Posted on 22/12 10:47
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Congratulations to the other LJ. An instant classic.

Cobain_94 Posted on 22/12 12:44
re: Why are people so Homophobic

"The whole purpose of every living thing on this planet is to reproduce and keep the species alive."

We survive and then reproduce again etc etc down the generations until the world ends and we're all dead anyway. Face it, there's absolutley no point to our existence so people should be able to do what the f_uck they like as long as it doesn't harm anyone else.

Why should people pretend to be something they're not and make themselves unhappy just so they can be seen to be normal and doing what god wants or whatever other bullsh_it argument people put forward.

I think bb75 is a repressed sausage chomper by the way.

--- Post edited by Cobain_94 on 22/12 12:48 ---

The_Commisar Posted on 22/12 12:53
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Dammit..... missed the scandal and intrigue AGAIN !
So whats in the missing post ?

hairypie4dinner Posted on 22/12 18:53
re: Why are people so Homophobic

People are homophobic cos they don't like queers. It's a personal thing. Some people think I'm strange cos I don't like mayonnaise. Personal preference ain't a crime.

monkeytennis Posted on 22/12 20:56
re: Why are people so Homophobic

I work for an airline, a fair sized one, and the amount of gays working for us means that there HAS to be very little homophobia.
Saying that, any straight cabin crew certainly "fill their boots" if you get me drift !
I've been on loads of night stops and shared long nights drinking with gay crew and I don't get intimidated by them.
When you're surrounded by it, then it doesn't become an issue anymore.
Still agree with the fisting comments, mind!
By the way, can we have Riggott back, please?
YOUUUUUUU RAMS !

littlejimmy Posted on 22/12 21:00
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Aye, each to their own. I mean the Nazis didn't like gays or Jews or gypsies or disabled people or black people. But that's OK, it was their personal preference.

red_rebel Posted on 22/12 22:19
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Look, its economics.

The hatred and fear of gays is part and parcel of an ideology that puts 'family' at the centre of its economic structure

People are condition to believe homosexuality is somehow wrong or uncommon or a modern dysfunctional aspect of personal politics.

In fact previous socities were far more tolerant. In ancient Greece, for example, homosexuality was not seen as "unnatural" but actually glorified by poets and philosophers and widely accepted throughout society. Similarly India, Eygpt and Rome.

The middle ages saw the rise of Christianity and the notion of 'sin'. but being gay or lesbian was no different from any other "evil" and so didn't receive special sanctions.

It was only with the rise of Capitalism and its family unit that the systematic oppression of gays and lesbians began.

In the patriarchal family of the middle ages, with a father at the head of a household made up of his brothers, their wives, i.e. the whole extended family, the family was a unit of production (peasants and farming).

Under capitalism, the family changed its form. Without land to work the man went out to earn a wage working for a boss while the woman became responsible for raising children, cooking, etc - in other words reproducing the next generation of workers or looking after her husband, and all free of charge for the capitalist.

The capitalists rely on the next generation being raise but they don't want to pay for it - creches, child income benefit, the whole lot. So capitalism relies on the family with its sexual division of labour between man and woma. Anything different was seen as a major threat to the structure of society.

Legal penalties were imposed on gay men at the end of teh 17th century as capital strengthened its ideological grip. At the same time that unions were being persecuted and republicans and democrats jailed for sedition openly gay groups " the mollies" faced group trials 1699,1701 and 1720 where the punishment for being "abnormal" was hard labour in prison or the death penalty.

Gays and lesbians fall outside the capitalist "family' and its reproductive needs. To maintain the family, it needs to be propagandised for in schools an dthe press and alternative lifestyles fought against and policed with discriminatory laws.

People are so homophobic because they are conditioned to be by a system scared of difference, independence and economic units that threaten their control.

irishjohn Posted on 22/12 22:22
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Red you are slowly becoming a VIZ character.

red_rebel Posted on 22/12 22:32
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Slowly? I've been a cartoon character on here for years. I think the slowly part is the penny dropping for you. I am Terry Trotsky (and his bolshevik plotski). Its funny because its true.

Revol_Tees Posted on 22/12 22:32
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Spot on, rebel.

irishjohn Posted on 22/12 22:35
re: Why are people so Homophobic

I aint got anything against them.. gays that is but imagine if the new Holgate over the next 5 years or so was overun by Gays and they took total control of the singing end... can you
imagine the time it would take to search all the handbags the and high pitched ooooooooh sound as the ball whizzed past the oppositions post.
gawd help us.

red_rebel Posted on 22/12 22:43
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Yes, it would be all songs from the musicals and cries of "get her".

It would also provide a bit of atmosphere, raise the standards of dress, sophistication and wit and it would be far more fragrant than all the macho men farting their exhaust of beer and pies.

irishjohn Posted on 22/12 22:46
re: Why are people so Homophobic

chuckles... a sane revolution DH Lawrence

--- Post edited by irishjohn on 22/12 22:47 ---

Lefty3668 Posted on 22/12 23:37
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Bit pissed at the mo - been on xmas do and waiting for a taxi. Delighted in a way to think I might disagree with Red Rebel about something other than John Peel(was getting worried you were brainwashing me Reb).

If I remember correctly the chemical theory I read was this. (Much simplified)

Lets say as foetuses we all start off with say 100 units of oestrogen and say 10 units of testosterone. At some point the mothers body decides whether the baby will be male or female.

If it decides it will be male then to change the sexuality there needs to be more units of testosterone than oestrogen. So at the point of decision the mothers body will be triggered into transmitting at least 91 more units into the foetus.

This 101:100 ratio of testosterone might be enough to change the sexual organs but there needs to be even more testosterone to change the neural network of the brain to have male characteristics, e.g. the different spatial awareness, sexual orientation, language etc. Lets say that requires a ratio of 120:100.

To be on the safe side Mother Nature has decreed that, if this trigger happens at all, on average a further 110 to 120 units of testosterone to be sent into the foetus. Sometimes however, for whatever reason, the process can be ‘interrupted’ and the mother does not send the full 110 – 120, but only say 105. This will result in the physical development being male but not a full neural development. Hence there are people with male bodies but not ‘normal’ heterosexual neural programming.

This explains why many gay men share a lot of female interests and qualities.

Sometimes the usual amount of hormones are transmitted by the mother but they are diverted from or not absorbed by the correct portion of the brain of the foetus that relates to sexuality. Hence there are camp gay men and straight acting gay men.

This explains why there are less Lesbians (as opposed to women with lesbian tendencies) than gay men as if the usual number of testosterone hormone units triggered is 110-120 then there is less chance of only 90 or less to be triggered than 91 to 119.

It also explains why some men who have been given too large a dose of testosterone become violent nutters. The prisons are full of them.

Why are people so homophobic?

The people who are homophobic, as they believe it is a life choice should reflect on the phrase ‘there but for the grace of god go I’.

The people who find the thought/sight of homosexual acts distasteful are probably in many cases as equally at the mercy of their genetic programming as the homosexuals themselves and so should not be blamed for their feelings. However, these same people should also reflect that homosexuals will be equally as repulsed by the vastly greater number of images of heterosexual love that they are subjected to and are yet very tolerant.

The most intolerant among us – and you know who you are – are very likely to have been conditioned by a society built on religions and creeds that have been homophobic for centuries and are trying to conform despite knowing deep down that perhaps there is a slight shortfall in the number of testosterone units that got through to that vital part of the brain.

irishjohn Posted on 22/12 23:42
re: Why are people so Homophobic

.

--- Post edited by irishjohn on 23/12 0:43 ---

Revol_Tees Posted on 23/12 1:29
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Interesting post, Lefty3668 - there's food for thought there, but I have to say I strongly disagree with it, and I think that kind of regressive, biological-determinist analysis only plays into the hands of homophobes. I know it's an old debate that's been done to death, and to be honest I'm too sleepy to really tackle it now, but that argument just seems too totalising, too rigid to me. Biology might play a part, but we shouldn't overstate it.

It's important to remember where this tradition started. In one way or another, the belief that your biology determines everything about who you are (including habits) began in the mid 19th century and remained popular well into the early 20th century, when the likes of Winston Churchill argued for degenerate working class oiks (with a so-called biological tendency to commit crime) to be sterilised, I believe. Your point about violent nutters filled with testosterone makes me wonder how far this argument could stretch ... are wife-beaters and murderers (etc) all pre-programmed to behave in such a way, doomed beyond rehabilitation by chemical imbalances? (A similar but more extreme thing was said about blacks and Jews, of course.)

I also think there are a number of pretty big assumptions underlying that particular approach to sexuality. What is "sexuality" and where does it begin? Is it in our thoughts, our behaviour, our feelings? And do the same things make us all sexually aroused? (No!) Throughout history, and in different cultures, have the same things given men and women "sexual" pleasure? (No.) The idea that sexual identity is fixed and that types of sexual pleasure can be classified (as homo, hetero, bi) is itself only recent in world history. To this day, for a hell of a lot of people, anything goes and there is so much overlap, those terms are (IMO) practically meaningless.

"This explains why many gay men share a lot of female interests and qualities." Which interests and qualities are designated "female" in the first place, and who decides? Are they the same in every culture and in every historical epoch? (No.)

"The people who find the thought/sight of homosexual acts distasteful are probably in many cases as equally at the mercy of their genetic programming as the homosexuals themselves..." But "homophobia" (like "homosexuality") is itself only a fairly recent historical construct; are we asked to believe that the Ancient Greeks were genetically more open-minded, liberal, superior?

Anyway, I'm tired and I apologise if I'm rambling, but in a nutshell, I don't buy the argument about biology. I'm sure it has a role to play somewhere in these things, but I think it is more important that we understand the extent to which these things which we take for granted might be culturally constructed - that goes for gender, sexuality, race, class ... Interrogate the Falsely Obvious

--- Post edited by Revol_Tees on 23/12 1:40 ---

ColinCooper Posted on 23/12 1:39
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Each to their own I say.

A lad I worked with regularly recited his concerns.
Years ago it was illegal
It then became accepted
He was terrified it was going to become compulsory.

You have to laugh!

tees_tug Posted on 23/12 8:34
re: Why are people so Homophobic

It's about reproduction.

What is happening on here, is that rebel is using long sentences to catch a mate. Rather like BB75 uses his horns and smelly breath to ward of rival males.

Rebel is probably hoping that a passing middle aged Marxist woman gets trapped on his threads. After spending hours reading his posts, she get drowsy and whoomph! Reproduction takes place.

In fact, he has ensnared Revol and possibly Lefty3668. Which adds up to the same thing. A suitable mate for sex.

I'm off to buy a hat.

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 23/12 9:26
re: Why are people so Homophobic

"This explains why many gay men share a lot of female interests and qualities. "

Ahh yes all "the gays" love flower arranging and make up. Please tell me what female interests and qualities are and how all gay men share them.

On this board theres a gay lad who supports Boro, plenty of women who support Boro and ..oh no......we all support Boro too.

Does this mean we are all gay, as we share an interest in Boro with "the gays" and "the women" ????

Or do you mean loving female qualities like love and affection as shown by Rosemary West, Myra Hindley, Maxine Carr etc etc.

My point is, in this day and age it's impossible to typecast interests and qualities as "female".

I wonder if this thread could be Christmas number 1 ?

--- Post edited by The_Lizards_Jumpers on 23/12 9:26 ---

Lefty3668 Posted on 23/12 9:58
re: Why are people so Homophobic

I thought I made a couple of posts last night. I'm still too hungover to re-read and try to understand what I meant at the moment.

Looking briefly at your post Lizard I think I might have been talking crap. Disorganised crap as well by the sounds of it. By lunchtime I might be able to concentrate.

I hope the post didn't come out sounding homophobic or labelling people as stereotypes.

tees_tug Posted on 23/12 10:03
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Still, if there are any spare gays out there with time on their hands. I need a hand to wrap some parcels.

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 23/12 10:07
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Dont worry Lefty, Im still just playing Devils avacado in order to get my first double century.

If I do so I have promised to donate my 2nd century to Miss Planner for Xmas, as she like me, until yesterday, has never had a 100 posts.

boroboy75 Posted on 23/12 10:09
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Why the sudden pro-gay stance, Lizard?
Are you trying to put your mind at ease about getting a bonk-on in a communal shower?

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 23/12 10:12
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Yes, but to be fair you should never bent over to pick up that bar of soap bb75, too much temptation......

red_rebel Posted on 23/12 13:40
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Tug:

I've actually got a Marxist women already. Ah, the joys of "the horizontal road to socialism."

Lefty and Revol are fine catches. To be fair, I thought I'd pulled you once or twice this year too

borobadge Posted on 23/12 13:55
re: Why are people so Homophobic

not every gay male is sexually attracted to "fisting"..

in exactly the same way that every heterosexual male isnt attracted to "cunninlingus"....and his partner to "fellatio"...


its not asking about what sexual act we prefer..

but why the homophobic attitude to other people who choose partners of the same sex..and live their lifestyle in that manner..WHY ?

MsCurly Posted on 23/12 13:57
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Every heterosexual male isn't attracted to cunnilingus?

Wtf??!

SACK MACCLAREN!!

Winston_Spangler Posted on 23/12 14:00
re: Why are people so Homophobic

My dad reading the Gazette the other day with an annoyed look on his face: "Who wants to read about a couple of gay boys!?!" Was a story about them two lads in this area who got married. Made me laugh. I'm alright with it as long as one of em doesn't try to sit next to me on a bus. I'd knock his block off.

borobadge Posted on 23/12 14:02
re: Why are people so Homophobic

mz c..i know !

..i'm not one of them by the way..

but i know some blokes (plural)..and they just wont entertain such an act....

i know the reason wimmin dont like "felatio" so much..is because not enough men scrub their balls and wash behind their foreskin often enough.....

yer right..its mcclarens fault....

--- Post edited by borobadge on 23/12 14:06 ---

MsCurly Posted on 23/12 14:04
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Cleanliness is next to godliness, badgey.

Winston, you would knock a gay man's block off just for sitting next to you on the bus? Bit harsh that.

OhWell Posted on 23/12 14:08
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Devil's Advocaat makes on hell of a Snowball!

borobadge Posted on 23/12 14:09
re: Why .....

"as long as one of em doesn't try to sit next to me on a bus. I'd knock his block off.".....WHY ?...



this was the attude in the deep south of good ol' u.s.a. to the black and coloured people...

MsCurly Posted on 23/12 14:10
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Snowball? You filthy beast.

OhWell Posted on 23/12 14:11
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Double meaning not intended!

borobadge Posted on 23/12 14:13
re: Why are people so Homophobic

double entendre ....

OhWell Posted on 23/12 14:16
re: Why are people so Homophobic

sorry, I don't know any Spanish

OhWell Posted on 23/12 14:41
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Of course! It's simple really...

"If gay people made the decision not to think gay, they would not act gay"

see link

Link: think gay

Lefty3668 Posted on 23/12 15:40
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Revol,

Having re-read Rebs post and yours I think in a way we are answering slightly different questions.

The question is ‘why are people so homophobic?’ Perhaps I have attempted to answer ‘why are people homophobic?’ while you and Reb are answering the ‘SO homophobic’ bit or perhaps why is ‘society’ so homophobic’.

I will expand on my surprisingly coherent post a bit so that we may well find that we do not disagree very much.

I looked at posts like Blots ‘I don't give a chew as long as the keep their anal exploits well away from me’.

While I sometimes disagree with Blot I think he is a pretty reasonable and decent fellah. His post is basically saying I am not going to persecute anyone for homosexual practices but please do not do them in front of me or attempt to persuade me to join in because I will find it unpleasant, I think.

That seems a fair approach to me. Some people though might accuse him, simply because he can’t stomach the sight of two men having sex, of homophobia. I think they would be wrong to do so. I don’t think he is any more able to help that than gay men can help being attracted to other men.

I understand why you have labelled my points regressive and the dangers it poses and you certainly have a point, however the articles I read were actually referring to the latest scientific findings so they cannot be regressive. In fact they are progressive although I can see that there is huge potential for the evidence to be hijacked, misinterpreted etc. The science of neurology is a relatively new one and it certainly has a long way to go. Nevertheless it is making incredible discoveries all the time. You cannot compare the ‘science’ of yesteryear which labeled blacks as subhuman with the science of today.

Today we know about hormones and chromosomes, DNA and genes, we have MRI scans and CAT scans etc. And with globalization it is much easier for scientists to make progress because they can share results and get access to people with unusual brain injuries world wide, thus widening the pool of evidence and experiments.

Women are from venus, men are from Mars. The evidence is all around us of it. I look in the fridge and we are DEFINATELY out of butter until the missus goes straight to it. She cannot read a map. I don’t communicate very well or remember birthdays. She is even more crap a cricket than me. Why?

It used to be thought that the only difference between mens brains and womens was the size. Now we know that they are ‘wired’ up differently and have differences in the chemical make up. And within these broad parameters there are subtle differences with each women, with each man, with each homosexual man and each lesbian women. Hence some women are good at parking. Some men like flower arranging.

So what I am saying is that no-one can help their sex or their sexuality. What they can help is their moral judgement. Blot, in spite of his aversion, is making a tolerant and correct one. The ancient greeks praised thinking above all else. That is we know their moral philosophies and we know that they accepted homosexuality rather than condemn it. But we do not know how many of the ordinary Athenians were tolerant of homosexuality rather than practicing it, do we?

So I think that science is beginning to prove that some people are ‘programmed’ to have an aversion. Where you and Rebel have a point is that this aversion has been tapped into and exploited by certain elements, whether that is the various churches or other powerful entities you know better than me.

Economics may well be a motive to stir up these persecutions, it is likely that I shall see the argument as I give it more thought. Economics was not a motive for the Albigensian crusade, I do not think, when the Cathars were wiped out in the middle ages for ‘deviant sexual practices like homosexualty’. Whatever was the motive, the vehicle that was used, I suggest, was this genetic aversion.

As I say, I know the notion that many people are programmed to dislike homosexuality could have many terrible repercussions if presented in a skewed manner. However the truth is the truth and it should be public knowledge, it would only leak out anyway in a probably more damaging way.

Lets present it fully, debate it properly and remove all the nonsenses so that stupid people will no longer fear they can catch the ‘disease’ by sitting next to someone on the bus, or that people are choosing to be ‘sexual deviants’ therefore they have dubious morality and should not be teaching or even coming near my kids.

I repeat ‘there but for the grace of god go I’ and I will add ‘there thanks to the grace of god am I’. And I refer to homosexuality, Bi-sexuality and heterosexuality in equal measure.

Stupidity and intolerance are our choice.


Oh and Tees Tug













Merry Xmas.

thesonofgod Posted on 23/12 15:43
re: Why are people so Homophobic

did the gays put a ring on their fingers and which one went down on bended knee

borobadge Posted on 23/12 15:43
re: Why are people so Homophobic

What about Trans-genders!..they have a right to rights as well...

BOBEND Posted on 23/12 16:33
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Where's it all going to end??

In 10 years time I’ll be referred to as a "skirt lifter"

Well in the historical sense anyway, I’ll be finished like Borobadge by then!!!

--- Post edited by BOBEND on 23/12 16:34 ---

Revol_Tees Posted on 23/12 16:36
re:

Fair play, Lefty3668. Thanks for your response - I certainly wasn't implying up there that you yourself sounded like a homophobe or prejudiced or anything like that. It's good to have an honest, informative discussion about these things, whatever differences in opinion we may have. It's all about give and take and I've certainly learned something. Cheers again.

--- Post edited by Revol_Tees on 23/12 16:37 ---

thesonofgod Posted on 23/12 16:57
re:

It's all about give and take and I've certainly learned something.
so are you the taker Revol or the giver?

Come_On_Boro_the_1st Posted on 23/12 17:00
re:

Christmas Gay Question : How do they decide who goes to the pub for the lunchtime pint and who stays at home to cook the turkey ?

Revol_Tees Posted on 23/12 17:01
re:

sonofgod - wouldn't you like to know



--- Post edited by Revol_Tees on 23/12 17:01 ---

thesonofgod Posted on 23/12 17:02
re:

And on that note Revol i bid you good night

Revol_Tees Posted on 23/12 17:06
re:

Not at all wanting to sound like Alan Partridge, but I was actually being sarcastic there, sonofgod, so don't worry. Like you, I'm a bit of homosceptic myself - God created Adam and Eve, he didn't create Adam and Steve.

Lefty3668 Posted on 23/12 23:05
re:

Merry Christmas Revol.

red_rebel Posted on 23/12 23:31
re:

Lefty:

I think the question you were actually answering was "what makes people homosexual?". There is a lot of scientific debate over the chemical process you describe and the existance of a "gay gene" whic is very interetsing but I am not really up to speed on it.

But that physical process of how, where and why gay sexuality is created is a different question from the social and cultural response to those that are homosexual.

My position is that peopel are homophobic because they are taught to be. They are conditioned through the generations. It is a sin. They will burn in hell. Playground jokes about "benders" and "Queers". If you are good a poetry you are a "poofta". Able to converse with girls? Not a thug? What a nancy boy.

Jon Inman, Dick Emery. Quentin Crisp. Stereotyped high camp limp wrist . Isn't he married yet? Must be something wrong with him. Drink load. Get a tattoo. If you can't beat the shitte out of someone you can't be a real man.

People are kept in ignorance and encouraged to hate difference. It is a threat. They are not like us. They can't be trusted. It is just like racism, it is a dividing lie.

Lefty3668 Posted on 30/12 18:52
re:

Reb,

Sorry I didn’t get back to you before Christmas, my browser at home is knackered so I have to reboot everytime I want more than about 7 minutes internet use so it doesn't take long to get fed up.

Yes I am answering that question. But I think you have to find the answer to that question first.

At the moment the scientists think the ‘gay gene’ thing is probably not going to be borne out. It seems as if it is a combination of the chemical process and the genetic makeup of the individual, which explains why a greater proportion of gay men have gay brothers than straight men, that is the deciding factor. Think of the testosterone delivered by the mother as rainfall and the genetic make up as the topography. The same rainfall is more likely and similar lakes will form.

I fully agree that there are comparisons with racism and probably mysogeny as well.

However I would say that the biology is a distinction because it explains why some men that I know and on this board express not only tolerance of gay men but would actively defend them against attack and stand up for their rights and yet they would rather not watch when they see two men kissing on Coronation Street.

I don't think anyone who is not racist would turn away from watching black couples snogging.

So I think that the Homophobia that you are explaining (shall we refer to it with a capital H?) is easily spread because it will seem to appeal to an instinct (homophobia with a little h?)that exists either within a majority of men or certainly a large minority of men. Add to that scripture and whatnot.

And I think it is brilliant because it takes away several of the tools that the Homophobes use to spread their poison. Homosexuality cannot be transmitted like a disease, it is not a result of a warped mind, it is not depravity, it is not a choice. It is just biology.

If we understand that then we cannot be influenced by most of the nonsense spouted by the Homophobes even though homosexuality might feel abhorrent to many of us.

Shame there is no similar thing for racism.

By the way, there have been several studies that have shown that often the penises of homophobic men show more stimulous at pictures of naked men than non homophobic men. This backs you up Reb, I think, as surely if homosexuality was more tolerated and accepted as just different rather than sinful these guys wouldn't be so tortured.


Now let me just look back through some of the posters on this thread ..........



And Happy New Year to you, Reb. Very much enjoyed this board over the last 4 months.

--- Post edited by Lefty3668 on 30/12 19:04 ---

JuliusHibbert Posted on 30/12 19:52
re: Why are people so Homophobic

< look at that priest in NI protesting against two lassses getting "married" WTF has it to do with him ? >


It's only a looney fringe in Northern Ireland. Radio Five went out and about in Belfast the days those girls got hitched, and no-one they spoke to said it was a bad idea. Most just said if that's what people want to do let them get on with it.

jam_the_parmo Posted on 30/12 21:15
re: Why are people so Homophobic

So basically being gay is an illness then?

Matelot Posted on 30/12 21:18
re: Why are people so Homophobic

From what we have read in this thread and the other one earlier it seems to point that way yes.

jam_the_parmo Posted on 30/12 21:22
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Classic.


You reckon you could get a year on the sick if you pretend to be gay? better than having to walk around with a limp (mind i suppose walking with a limp would make your "gay-out" seem more realistic)

cardiff290204 Posted on 30/12 21:30
re: Why are people so Homophobic

As well as some reasoned debate I've seen some pretty poor "gay" jokes on this thread and others in the past on fmttm. Although the current "Anal Sex" thread is rather amusing.

sadly homophobia is all about fear and ignorance. most people assume gay men are all limp wristed effeminate julian clary types - sorry but thats simply just not the case. Again its just stereotyping. There is also the insecurity aspect of it, and of being comfortable with ones own sexuality. All masculine crap but most straight men couldnt cope with anyone feeling that they may not be "all man" and maybe - god forbid - fancy men.

for the record, i'm a gay man (and a Boro ST holder too!) and no way is it a "lifestyle choice" - i wouldnt wish the first 20 odd years of my life not knowing if i wanted cock or pussy on anyone. and then once you've made your mind up you've got to act upon your instincts which was utterly torturous (I wont go further) and then after all that - you've got to decide when and if to tell your family.

My colleagues at work told me that they couldnt work out if I was gay or not - mainly cos of my love for Boro and the fact I spent so much on going to football all the time. What clinched it for them was went I went to see Kylie in concert at Wembley.!

Some bloody lifestyle choice, eh?

Even more sadly, there are still plenty of homophobes still about. Witness the killing on Clapham Common a few months ago and the stabbing on Westminster Bridge.

So, there you go, thats my story. See any of you in Annies Bar for a pre-match pint tomorrow?

jam_the_parmo Posted on 30/12 21:34
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Oh bore off Dfydd,you aint the only gay in the village and not many people actually care about gays these days.Why people have to flaunt thier sexuality is beyond me.I don't walk about in a t-shirt saying "straight and proud".

jeff_potato Posted on 30/12 21:37
re: Why are people so Homophobic

You know, I honestly can't understand why people on the whole seem to be so homophobic.

One of my best friends came out a couple of years ago and told me last because he thought I was homophobic and would actually beat him up! That shocked me!

When he came out a lot of people were actually baffled as to why I was such good friends with a gay man and would still go round his and we would watch films alone.

It amazes me how homophobes seem to flatter themselves by assuming that every gay man is desperate to have sex with them and change their sexual orientation - yet if you locked them in a room with a woman, would they automatically assume that said lady wanted to do them all night long?

I live with a lad at uni who's lived something of a sheltered life, he was amazed when I told him how I've been out down Canal Street in Manchester before on a night out - he actually asked if I had turned gay to have gone there for a drink!!

Matelot Posted on 30/12 21:41
re: Why are people so Homophobic

So if your gay mate tried to shag you then you would smile and say no or would you whack him one for fear of being a homophobe?

It is happened to me and i tell you it aint nice mate.

jam_the_parmo Posted on 30/12 21:45
re: Why are people so Homophobic

I've got a few gay mates but they don't walk around reminding everyone they are gay,why the fook should they,so they wanna shag men big deal its fook all to do with me.

I call people gay all the time,always have always will,if a lad who is gay takes offence to that then they obviously think of themselfs as dirty or are attention seeking muppets.

Matelot Posted on 30/12 21:47
re: Why are people so Homophobic

I wonder where littlejimmy is tonight ?????

jeff_potato Posted on 30/12 21:48
re: Why are people so Homophobic

If he came onto me, like his ex-boyfriend has, I'd tell him to do one, like the women I've turned down.

I think the only unsavoury experience I've had with a gay gentleman was when I was down the pub chatting to him and he tried to slip his hands down my pants, then took offence accusing me of being homophobic when I made it clear there was to be no groping, public or otherwise, because my girlfriend would smash his face in no matter what gender the groper was!

He was pretty drunk, but I and my friends politely told him that he can't hide behind any "barriers" like that when he's just being a lech.

jam_the_parmo Posted on 30/12 21:52
re: Why are people so Homophobic

He deserved a punch for doing that like,a man couldn't get away with doing that to a women so why should he a man?

jeff_potato Posted on 30/12 21:53
re: Why are people so Homophobic

I made it clear to him that what he was doing was wrong and pervy, he heeded that warning - saw no need to punch him, or even consider it!

jam_the_parmo Posted on 30/12 21:57
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Well i wouldn't be happy about that like,especially if it was a bigger stronger bloke,i'd have lost my rag,a jokes a joke but that's not right at all.

relfyoftheboro Posted on 30/12 22:08
re: Why are people so Homophobic

200

COME ON BORO

Matelot Posted on 30/12 22:10
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Well done sir.

cardiff290204 Posted on 30/12 22:41
re: Why are people so Homophobic

i dont flaunt anything mr parmo, i'm the most quiet and unassuming bloke you've ever met. in fact i could be the bloke you sit next to at the match. i just get on with my life mate, and dont go shouting anything from the rooftops. need to know basis is my motto.

also pleased to see you use the term "gay" as a derogatory one. maybe if folk realised how hard it can be for gays and lessies to gain acceptance then they wouldnt use it.

And as for "straight and proud", i should bloody well hope so.

jam_the_parmo Posted on 30/12 22:45
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Yes in this day and age it's so hard being a gay i mean you are such a minority.

FFS man get over yourself,i have plenty of gay mates and none of the whinge about it,you are obviously just seeking attention,so stop being a puff "mind the pun" and get on with it.

red_rebel Posted on 30/12 22:53
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Lefty:

I think the genetic aspect is fascinating and certainly seems to underpin a lot of the emotional wiring of not just homosexuals but all of us.

But the evidence of history seems to suggest that the pressures of culture and society can override that.

For instance, in the prudish and proper Victorian era when class and social conformity was hammered home in school and church why were there so few obvious homosexuals? Was the gene less prevalent? Is it less prevalent in say, Catholic South America?

Clearly not. The research suggest a common and widespread pre-disposition to homosexuality throughout all humans yet the cultural evidence shows it is/was extremely rare or almost unknown in some communities.

The only reason for that can be social and cultural norms. In more strictly defined socities the economic drive that shapes lives is more urgent.

In poorer societies it is imperitive to produc ethe next generation of helping hands quickly so young marriage and breeding is demanded and things we sophisticates take for granted - love, happiness, sexual compatibility - are downgraded in favour of the economically most appropriate form of relationship.

The genetic impulse is repressed by economic neccessity and the need to conform to social norms. The same forces hold in check the sex urge of hetrosexuals to impregnate the lady in the post office or next doors daughter. The same forces hold in check testosterone fuelled violence to. Or used too.

It works the other way too apparently. People who are programmed as hetro and live a macho and sometimes violent lifestyle can sooon be socially conditioned to be the alpha male's bitch in prison in return for baccy and protection.

Oh, and it's nice to have you aboard comrade. Enlightened socially progressive left leaning types with a gift for anology and a bit of insight are at a premium.

Boro_Gadgie Posted on 31/12 0:24
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Not had chance to read through each post on this thread, but here goes. When I was at Uni, we had this lecturer who was obviously "on the other bus", and on a course night out, a few others were making immature, giggly remarks, which bordered on being snide and homophobic. I just turned round to them and said, "what does it matter what anyone gets up to in private with their partner. I'm not bothered as long as they don't want to shove it up mine".

I think, that especially as society can be quite promiscuous, any stable loving relationship, regardless of whether it's gay or straight can only be a good thing.

TeessideCleveland Posted on 31/12 0:26
re: Why are people so Homophobic

As Billy Connolly says 'You are all out of the closet now and the same as the rest of us so you should take the flak like everyone else'
He also said - and it is true - that the only people you can now slag off and be politically correct is white male heterosexuals
Asa white male heterosexual I can see where he is coming from
What I find from personal experience is that racism is more widespread in the north east than anti gay/lesbian feelings
I have heard several people say how we should not criticise people for being gay/lesbian and yet often spout racist rubbish which I find offensive

Boro_Gadgie Posted on 31/12 0:44
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Aye TC, there are too many hyoocrites in this world. A good example is this. In my local pub one night, a few of the crowd I normally sat with, some much older than me started having a go at blacks and asians. I had my say and was shouted down, ending up with me falling out big time with a couple of people I normally got on with.

Anyhow, a few weeks later, the subject of Northern Ireland came up. I for my sins am half Northern Irish, so when people start pontifficating about a subject on which I know a little bit more about than them, I'm going to have my say. Anyhow, my crime was to stick up for Ian Paisley.

Now, I certainly don't agree with a lot of things the big fella has said or done, but at the end of the day, he's on the same side as me. All of a sudden the racist types I had fallen out with a few weeks earlier, were labelling me as some sort of sectarian bigot, when in fact I couldn't give a stuff which church someone was baptised into - my own great, great grandparents, from which I get my surname from are Irish Catholic FFS.

borobadge Posted on 31/12 10:40
re: Are people so Homophobic...?

boro-gadgie..

only catholics get "baptised"..named after john the baptiser (baptist)..

if your not a catholic and you gets a head dip..its "christened"..a welcome in to the christian churches..

but back to the posed question..its because folk are scared and lacking in education, so they see it as a threat, the way to deal with that is to attack it or make fun of it, you know on most occassions you will get the backing off the "majority", so you get an acceptance fo your actions and views.....

same with racism....sexism..... and sectarianism.......

red_rebel Posted on 4/1 12:42
re: Are people so Homophobic...?

Back up and lets push on to 300.

Lefty3668 Posted on 4/1 13:11
re: Are people so Homophobic...?

Curse you, Rebel!


And stop it, you'll make me blush.

Azedarac Posted on 4/1 13:27
re: Are people so Homophobic...?

'only catholics get "baptised"'

I'd always assumed Baptists did too?

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 4/1 14:23
re: Are people so Homophobic...?

Blimey, I never expected this to have got over 200 - what a way to celebrate your first century with a doubler eh ?

boroboy75 Posted on 4/1 14:25
re: Are people so Homophobic...?

You'll be forever thought of as a fairy sympathiser, though.

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 4/1 14:27
re: Are people so Homophobic...?

That's ok, I can handle not been thought of as a homophobe.

boroboy75 Posted on 4/1 14:29
re: Are people so Homophobic...?

Fair enough.
I don't suppose you could get away with wearing pink boots, and carrying a 'man's' hand-bag if you were.

sproutruss Posted on 4/1 14:30
re: Why are people so Homophobic

Because of their small willies.