permalink for this thread : http://search.catflaporama.com/post/browse/532975176
mickbrown Posted on 11/1 15:43
Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Your days are numbered

Link: About bleeding time

janplanner Posted on 11/1 15:45
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

hurrah for not stinking of fags when you get in from the pub!

Capybara Posted on 11/1 15:47
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

hurrah for continuing to stink of exhausts when you walk in off the street

mickbrown Posted on 11/1 15:48
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Now that doesn't really happen does it?

DybuksChampion Posted on 11/1 15:50
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Capy's work involves a lot of standing on street corner's dontchaknow.

janplanner Posted on 11/1 15:50
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

i don't remember ever picking up my jumper in the morning, and thinking; 'eeeeugh! car exhaust'.

but then i live in edinburgh, plenty of fresh air gusting in off the firth of forth.

grantus Posted on 11/1 15:52
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Its gonna be a little bit of a bitch to begin with, but at the end of the day, its fair enough. Its the right thing to do.

Capybara Posted on 11/1 15:57
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

No neither have I. Though, to be honest, I have never had the stinking of fags experience, either.

But you know me. Just like to point out to the majority that they indulge in a habit which is just as dangerous, in its way, and harmful as that of the minority they are happy to lay the law down to.

mickbrown Posted on 11/1 16:00
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Capy, if you were revving a souped up Nova in the corner of my local then you'd have a point.

All that is being asked of smokers is to take there habit outside where mother nature can do her business.

mufflar Posted on 11/1 16:05
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

you go to a pub, theres a bit of smoke, you may lose some money in the fruit machine after a couple of pints, and you may get smacked by a drunken fella, they are the facts of life...

...if you want peace and serenity go to a church...

Tillerman93 Posted on 11/1 16:09
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Its only a question of time before the bottom inspectors are released upon the public. Caught letting out a one cheek sneek in your local pub, and you'll be faced with an on-the-spot fine.

Capybara Posted on 11/1 16:09
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Assuming a souped up Nova is some sort of automobile, I see your point. But millions of souped up Novas revving up around the planet are ensuring that mother nature's business is no longer enough.

mickbrown Posted on 11/1 16:12
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

mufflar - I can resist the urge to chuck my money in a fruit machine and if a bloke wants to smack me I can duck or leg it.

But breathing ain't optional.

mufflar Posted on 11/1 16:13
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Tillerman - you may laugh but according to my mate who lives in Dublin, the absence of the smell of smoke unearths some altogether more unpleasant smells in pubs, bookies etc...

Spludger Posted on 11/1 16:13
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Lets bring back stagecoaches...all that lovely "hoss muck" for my roses.

Tillerman93 Posted on 11/1 16:13
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Who wants to go to a pub full of non smokers, urgh...non smokers, they are the kind of people who put creases in their jeans.

Give me a room full of smokers anyday.

Azedarac Posted on 11/1 16:13
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

People will get over it, just like when smoking was banned from some public transport, or if it's banned from your workplace. On the other hand I can't stand the smug "I'm going to live to 105" attitude of some anti-smoking nazis that I'm starting to see smokers as a persecuted minority.

Next step is a ban on alcohol, compulsory jogging, and ASBOs for not eating 5 portions of fruit and veg a day.

mufflar Posted on 11/1 16:14
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

mick - you don't have to go to the pub though? or stand in a smoking section?

mufflar Posted on 11/1 16:15
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

and from my experience of drinking in Bolton, you'd be doing a lot of ducking and leggin it Mick ;-)

Tillerman93 Posted on 11/1 16:16
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Yeah, on a serious note, its the deep rooted underside to this Government bill that really annoys me...where will it end.

If people are so worried about it...stay at home and wear an oxygen mask.

Azedarac Posted on 11/1 16:16
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Apparently a non-smoking section in a pub is as effective as a non-pissing section in a swimming pool. What a lovely image.

Tillerman93 Posted on 11/1 16:18
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Most landlords i have spoken to suggest they would rather have a pub full of smokers, as on the whole, they are addictive personalities, and in doing so, drink more beer.

grantus Posted on 11/1 16:20
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Its the end of the road for the English Pub. Believe it.

Go 1984, I reckon we are about there.

I meen really, why dont you just LIGHTen UP?

bloody PUFFs!

--- Post edited by grantus on 11/1 16:22 ---

Tillerman93 Posted on 11/1 16:22
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Yeah, its close to being the end. Drink driving laws finished off alot of boozers, but i think the no smoking bill will cause big problems. I can see a big rise in working mens clubs application for memberships.

Tillerman93 Posted on 11/1 16:24
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

People and authorities in the UK, spend too much time on structuring our lives, when what we should be doing, is living it to the full.

grantus Posted on 11/1 16:24
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Its a "king size" mistake, now that I think about it.

mickbrown Posted on 11/1 16:25
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

"mick - you don't have to go to the pub though?"

Course I bloody do.

Also I'm a lover not a fighter.

mufflar Posted on 11/1 16:25
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

I can see a window here. If you opened up a pub and made it members only (free membership) you could allow smoking?

Im sure most people would rather go there than some crappy chain, ponce parlour boozer anyway?

Spludger Posted on 11/1 16:26
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

No need to ban smoking at all...just give every smoker a hood to put over his head that way he can breathe in all the faggy smoke over and over again and get all the goodness out of each fag...and ensure value for money.

Tillerman93 Posted on 11/1 16:27
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Good idea. Just have a smoking pub, and ban all non smokers...you'd have a much better time.

BoroMutt Posted on 11/1 16:27
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

"We should be doing, is living it to the full." - How does sucking on an Embassy King Size equate to living life to the full?

Tillerman93 Posted on 11/1 16:29
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Try and see life beyond New Scientist monthly mag, get out there, buy a Hamlet cigar, pull down your keks, shove a carrot up your shitter...and shout 'Hallelujah'

mufflar Posted on 11/1 16:29
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Prudence is the ugly old maid courted by incapacity...

grantus Posted on 11/1 16:30
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

If they put in decent air "filters" there wouldn't be a problem. "Butt", in a similar veign to the airlines, it costs too much.

BoroMutt Posted on 11/1 16:33
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Alternatively, save your money and go freefall parachuting, windsurfing, motor racing, walking in the hills, visit a foreign country...

Live life to the full - or smoke? Hmmmmmm...

I have little time for smokers, except to thank them for volunteering to die early and funding the Health Service - Thank you all.

wobschall Posted on 11/1 16:35
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

works fine in ireland, probably the hotspot in the world, along with scotland, for drinkin n tobacco excess.

also provides a chance for smokers who are kak at pulling to have a better chance at trappin, when thrust together in a congregated area outside with their brethren.....

Tillerman93 Posted on 11/1 16:35
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Yes, and no doubt when I die, you'll be closely following me around the corner, no hang on...you'll live many years wont you.

Knob.

BoroMutt Posted on 11/1 16:38
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Thanks for smoking, Tillerman you're saving me probably two pence in the pound on my Income Tax. You are contributing to a pension you'll get little out of. And best of all - you'll soon have to stand outside pubs to smoke!

Hurrah!

Hicktons_Haircut Posted on 11/1 16:43
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Stop right there Azedarac! Ban alcohol indeed. Every time I come back from the pub our lass says I stink of beer. If she cant smell that she will probably find out that I've started smoking again!

mufflar Posted on 11/1 16:44
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Boromutt - you dont smoke, good for you. But what has what other people spend their time or money on, got to do with you?

BoroMutt Posted on 11/1 16:45
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Nothing at all. I'm just thanking them for dieing early and all the tax they pay into the exchequer, well done all.

mufflar Posted on 11/1 16:48
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

good for you mate...

grantus Posted on 11/1 16:59
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Boromutt, you're a doyle.

BoroMutt Posted on 11/1 17:06
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Why am I a doyle? For taking the piss out of those too pathetic to live their lives? For drawing an uncomfortable paralell?

You carry on "living your life to the full" through a filter tip and I'll carry on laughing at you. Sad sack.

grantus Posted on 11/1 17:09
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Doyle.

ferencpuskas Posted on 11/1 17:12
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

It's just a section of society people have decided to pick on. Fat people will be next. Fcuking Fascism.

BoroMutt Posted on 11/1 17:18
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Suck those vapours deep grantus...

Link: ...but not in here, son!

Azedarac Posted on 11/1 17:33
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

We live in a society where 100s of lawyers and human rights activists will leap to your defence if you want the right to hammer 6-inch nails through your gonads, but smoking is seen as unacceptable - the same activists and lawyers will hound you out of town.

mufflar Posted on 11/1 17:47
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

its about choice boromutt...some people choose to smoke, some people choose to act like doyles...

grantus Posted on 11/1 17:48
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Thats weird, I was in that pub yesterday, I shyt you not.

Still a doyle though.

Tillerman93 Posted on 11/1 19:24
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Boromutt has convinced me to stop, to start being a good citizen, reap the benefits of my large pension and live and breathe in the Teesside fresh air...

and put creases in my jeans.

FactOrFiction Posted on 11/1 20:15
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

The difference, Azerdac, is that the act of hammering nails through your gonads hurts nobody else. So it's a bad analogy, in all honesty.

As for Tillerman, it sounds like you are sad about drink driving being illegal. It kind of sums it up, really.

FactOrFiction Posted on 11/1 20:24
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Some whingeing git from Forest was on the radio earlier, whining on about how smokers will end up smoking at home around the kids because of the ban. This sums up smokers for me - selfish tvvats. Grow up and take heed of the facts, FFS. I don't give a donkey's testicle what you do to your own health, but I don't like MY health being affected by something YOU do for YOUR own pleasure.

smigga Posted on 11/1 20:25
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

I am counting down the days to this law coming in! Get the fuckk out of the pub and smoke yourselves to death but keep me and everyone else who chooses not to pollute their lungs out of it!
By the way Titterman never had creases in my jeans ever and I prefer them not to stink of the shyte that the likes of you throw out of your lungs!

chorleyphil Posted on 11/1 21:50
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Banning smoking in pubs should be way down on this governments list of priorties.
I mean legaising the use of cannabis was hardly a step in the right direction was it?
If you think smoking is affecting peoples lives then what about the consumption of excess alcohol leading to violence every weekend or the post about the lads parents, and many other people getting getting burgled.
No, the trouble with this government is too many pussy laws being introduced, masking the real problems.

Hull_Boro Posted on 11/1 22:12
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

I think i'm going to get out of being in a minority and becoming a Majority Water drinking, 5 Fruit and Veg a day, Man Utd fan.
Every thing I have enjoyed seem's to due gets banned by the Barstewards.
Pistol Shooting- Banned
Standing at football- Banned
Driving a 4x4- Nearly Banned
Smoking- Nearly Banned
Group B rally cars- Banned

What's next???? Beer? Sex? (well our lass has seemed to have banned that, not the goverment) Bookies? Meat Pies??

freethenorton7 Posted on 11/1 22:59
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

All these pathetic people moaning and whinging about smokers and how it hurts other people should get a grip. I have to breathe the car fumes every day from the majority of these people and am not bleating, crying and being a baby about it, ffs find something else to be a miserable sod about instead of persecuting a minority who enjoy a smoke.

FactOrFiction Posted on 11/1 23:02
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Another piss-weak analogy from the smoking apologists.

freethenorton7 Posted on 11/1 23:10
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

I sometimes wonder if these miserable whingers would prefer a world everyone to walk everywhere, eat only vegetables(organically grown of course), sit with fingers on lips during sporting events, make football a none contact sport, no swearing anywhere, punishable by the death penalty, even if you hit your finger with a hammer accidentally, hymns the only songs to be sung, church compulsory 7 days a week, soft drinks only, gambling forbidden etc etc,

Let people enjoy their own particular fun and stop pretending the reason you care about it stopping is your health being affected rather than being a professional misery.

FactOrFiction Posted on 11/1 23:16
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

And you stop being an ignorant, selfish fool.

YouLyingGet Posted on 11/1 23:20
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

How would it go down if I introduced a product that was addictive and killed 110,000 people in the UK every year? SOmethign tells me this would not be allowed to happen, but god forbid anyone that tries to stop something already in place that does this.

Get a grip you ignorant/selfish/fag smelling idiots - you are paying to kill yourselves and those around you. Any of you fancy lining your homes with asbestos? Most liley it would be safer than 10 a day.

Nanny state my rse.

freethenorton7 Posted on 11/1 23:21
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Do you drive? If the answer is yes then you are equally as selfish.

Have you ever on your life been involved in a fight of any kind that is drink related? If the answer is yes...

Do you use 100% enviromentally friendly products at all time? If the answer is no...

I could go on, get off your high horse and let others enjoy their lives instead of being part of a persecution campaign.

Following on from your comments, youlyingget, we should ban alchohol too? Stop being so high and mighty and enjoy your own life instead of wanting to spoil the enjoyment of others.

--- Post edited by freethenorton7 on 11/1 23:24 ---

YouLyingGet Posted on 11/1 23:23
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

I would if your "unselfish" habit didn't affect me.

Smokers - bunch of ignorant idiots.


Goodnight and up the Boro.

--edit - look at that: you've got my typing as well :-(

--- Post edited by YouLyingGet on 11/1 23:24 ---

FactOrFiction Posted on 11/1 23:23
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

You really have a poor grip on reality. People drive cars out of necessity. You smoke for your own pleasure. (And I've never been in a drunken fight. As far as I remember.)

freethenorton7 Posted on 11/1 23:27
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Cars a neccessity, are they really, I think not. Even if you come across "i need it for work" etc. Do you use it to pop to the shops, drop kids off at school, nip to mates house? I reckon you probably have done, therefore you are being as selfish as any smoker.

Drinking, kills more than ciggies per year, also the cause of more violence and physical injury, not that i am advocating banning it, you should get some perspective maybe.

TeessideCleveland Posted on 11/1 23:35
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

They are not voting on banning smoking just on doing it in pubs
You can easily pop outside for a quick fag if you have to
Drunken violence is not relevant
Most of us have a pint and the beer does not blow in other people's faces
If some can't drink without getting into a fight that is a separate issue
All cigarette smoke circulates round the pub onto all of us whether we smoke or not
People I know who smoke accept ban is likely but will just deal with it by smoking between pubs or popping out for a couple of minutes

FactOrFiction Posted on 11/1 23:39
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

I live miles from work and the shops and my family so I need my car to visit them all. There are no public transport options where I live. All necessity.
I'm not saying don't smoke. I'm saying I don't want you to smoke in the same confined space as me. Have some consideration and go outside if you are so desperate to smoke. YOU get some perspective. And stop being so fuqking selfish and self-centred.

freethenorton7 Posted on 11/1 23:41
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

We will have no choice in the matter and I will have to do same.

Same people who vote for this piece of persecution swan around in their petrol guzzlers to go to their bridge nights at their mates round corner, nip to corner shop for their bottle of chateaux '42, drop sebastian and molly off at the public school nearby and then harp on about how bad someone having a ciggie in a pub is.

freethenorton7 Posted on 11/1 23:44
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

You only use your car 100% of the time through neccessity? If so you are in a small minority, though I do doubt that you dont use it for ease rather than neccessiy at least some of the time. Pop to sandwich shop during lunch so you dont waste part of lunch hour perhaps? If so you are being selfish,as selfish as a smoker.

The majority of car owners, you aside, use their car for convenience a lot of the time(even some of the time), therefore they should be banned from the roads if your line of reasoning is to be observed?

sidog70 Posted on 11/1 23:48
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Just open up a load of coffeeshops like amsterdam.

FactOrFiction Posted on 11/1 23:48
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

I'm not stuck in a confined space with the cars. The problems with car pollution will all go away when we run out of oil anyway.
So what's the big problem with stepping outside as a common courtesy to others? Or is your right to smoke more important?

captain_cookie Posted on 11/1 23:51
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Sex kills more than fags (AIDS). Ban it.

sidog70 Posted on 11/1 23:52
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Im married captain_cooke already has.

freethenorton7 Posted on 11/1 23:52
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

In the mean time whilst we wait for the oil to run out, my son has to grow up in a polluted environment where more and more car users are making him breath air that is killing his brain cells and possibly shortening his life?

And you think I am selfish, yeah right.

I am not advocating the banning of cars per say, just pointing out the ridiculous double standards that these high and mighty people have, you included.

captain_cookie Posted on 11/1 23:56
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

hear, hear freethenorton7. Whatever happened to live and let live? Don't you just get peed off with all the up-their-own-arses self-righteous clods that seem to be taking over the world? Small time Ayatollah's the lot of 'em.
I'm off for a fag now.

FactOrFiction Posted on 11/1 23:58
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

So we're all selfish. Well, I can deal with that. But two wrongs don't make a right. Taking the billions of polluting cars off the road is impossible. In years to come, maybe cleaner cars will be more prevalent. But we can do something positive about people having to inhale second-hand smoke, which is to ban it from public places.

And I repeat, no-one is asking you to stop smoking altogether. They just want to be able to enjoy a smoke-free environment when they go out for an evening. So why is it such a problem? Is it really down to "everyone else is selfish, so I will be"? How mature of you!

FactOrFiction Posted on 12/1 0:00
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Live and let live. Aye, each to their own, as long as YOU'RE alright, eh? FFS. The bloody-minded selfishness and ignorance of some people never fails to amaze me.

freethenorton7 Posted on 12/1 0:04
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

While we are discussing this, children who walk to school/play outside/live generally being affected by car fumes really have no choice in the matter, yet nothing is done to stop car belting out crap.

You choose to go in to a pub where people smoke, I would say car owners are more selfish than your average person enjoying a smoke in a bar.

They are indiscriminate in their selfishness. I would glady see a situation where people can go poncing off to their none smoking pubs as they tend to be a dull group anyway and let those of us who want to enjoy a smoke do so in smoking pubs rather than introducing draconion and hypocritical laws

Of course people cant live without cars, you being a car owner. Surely it is you and millions of other car owners(more car owners than smokers, (therefore greater pollution) who are the living the "everyone else is selfish, so I will be" lifestyle.

captain_cookie Posted on 12/1 0:06
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

and the desire of some to impose their fascist values on others never ceases to amaze ME. Perhaps we should all have compulsory exercise every morning? diet police to make sure we're eating the right thing? thought police to make sure everybody's thinking the same thing as FartOrFiction?
is this why we fought Hitler? Should have just given in in 1939, it would have saved a lot of trouble.

FactOrFiction Posted on 12/1 0:10
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Ah! The old "non-smokers are dull" nugget. Great stuff. If all else fails, you can always fall back on crass and childish stereotypes or sayings that reinforce your own blinkered views.

You really are desperate aren't you? All this claptrap about cars is just skirting round the issue. I bet you have a car or use one regularly. So by your reckoning, you must be twice as selfish as everyone else.

You have no way of defending your selfishness other than saying that everyone else is selfish, so screw them. You still can't say why it is such a problem for you to pop outside to smoke. You are pathetic.

freethenorton7 Posted on 12/1 0:11
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

"So we're all selfish. Well, I can deal with that."

This an example of your level of maturity I take it?

I dont force people into the pub to breathe the air, you driving your car forces others to breathe the air you are polluting.

I am willing to let you and millions of others do this, you ought to show us exactly the same level of respect with smoking.

The dull remark was a response to your insults, dont get so worked up.

No I dont and wont drive, nor do I utilise someone else to drive for me. I dont think people shouldnt drive I just think you are being very hypocritical, your not alone though most of the people who vote for this vindictive legislation drive also I would have thought.

--- Post edited by freethenorton7 on 12/1 0:14 ---

FactOrFiction Posted on 12/1 0:12
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Shut the fukc up, cookie. You're talking utter SSSHITE (as usual). Why can't you fukcers get it into your thick fukcing heads. No-one is telling you to stop smoking!
F
F
S
!

FactOrFiction Posted on 12/1 0:16
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

OOOH, you're willing to LET me drive. How big of you!

"I dont force people into the pub to breathe the air". JESUS CHRIST! You arrogant tvvat! So it's only there for YOU to pollute, is it?
FUKC ME! This is priceless. If you hadn't noticed, the majority of people are non-smokers. The majority of people don't want to go to a pub to breathe in your fumes. So kindly FOOK OFF.

captain_cookie Posted on 12/1 0:16
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

another thoughtful and considered repsponse from that beacon of tolerance FartOrFiction.

freethenorton7 Posted on 12/1 0:19
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

As far as popping outside for a smoke is concerned I will have to, my point is it is a high and mighty piece of crap, the people who advocate and will enforce it are hypocrites of the lowest order who are causing more damage with their cars than me enjoying a smoke.

One rule for the hypos and one rule for your average man. It stinks more than your 4x4 does when it hurtles past my son on their five minute car journey that they could have walked.

When these people can honestly stand up and say they dont pollute or affect other people with their lifestyle THEN and only then do they have any right to try and spoil my lifestyle.

Also as I said earlier, have none-smoking pubs, ffs stop being nazis and allow some pubs to be smokers pubs, I am not affecting your health that way and I dont have to listen to conversations about yoga and low fat yogurts.

--- Post edited by freethenorton7 on 12/1 0:23 ---

Tillerman93 Posted on 12/1 0:40
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

It all boils down to common sense. If i am smoking and someone near me finds it offensive, i put it out. If I am in a restaurant, i dont smoke. But for crying out loud, public houses are for drinking and smoking, thats the history of the places. Now, im all for people haveing their rights upheld, so yes, no smoking pubs for the people who cant live to be around smokers. But, to ban it completely from boozers is just plain ridiculous.

Besides, its all irrelevant, because when the landlords till is hit, and his profits are down, he'll soon be singing the praises of the smoker to come back.

captain_cookie Posted on 12/1 0:47
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

ah, common sense eh Tillermain? Another quality sadly lacking in the zealots repertoire.
Are you listening FartOrFaction?

Tillerman93 Posted on 12/1 0:52
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Yeah, there is something uneasy about these anti smoking people, its the reality of what life is all about that they cant grasp. Breathing in other peoples smoke seems to be a big issue, when they'll more than likely pass away of something unrelated and a complete surprise. Still, at least it gives them something to moan about.

Tillerman93 Posted on 12/1 0:55
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

And...if it goes that far, I am going to start a lobby for Anti-Kouros wearing in public places.

easter_uprising_1916 Posted on 12/1 1:13
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Theres more facking bilge flying out the coke ovens 1/4 mile away and ICI.. you can smell the coke gas on the way up to the ground.

--- Post edited by easter_uprising_1916 on 12/1 1:14 ---

Scrote Posted on 12/1 1:17
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

shouldn't it be "AN umbrella"?


pisces Posted on 12/1 1:37
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

I've been a nurse for about 30 odd years now and a lot of that time was in local NHS hospitals. A very large percentage of admissions are in some way related to smoking. I have lost count of the amputations I have witnessed due to bad circulation and the chest conditions (emphysema, bronchitis) that are exacerbated because of cigarettes. The amount of people who die every year due to a smoking related illnes, equates to a Jumbo jet crashing every day of the week in the UK. If this was actually a reality, there would be a public outcry, but we still allow these poisonous cancerous sticks to be sold. I would personally ban them completely.
You smokers, who are trying to defend the indefensible, get yourselves along to one of the medical wards at James Cook or North Tees. Take a look at yourselves in 15-20 years.

--- Post edited by pisces on 12/1 1:49 ---

Grumpy_Paul Posted on 12/1 1:58
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

My problem is not the anti smoking lobby but the current ban this and ban that and then let's find something else to ban mentality.
It's killing freedom of choice.

The fiscal argument (i.e. NHS costs) against smoking doesn't stand scrutiny, tax paid during a lifetime of smoking pays a big slice of the bill and the state pension savings due to premature death are phenomenal.

Smokers and non smokers can all be accomodated for if there is a will.

This banning culture that is ever increasing will catch up on everyone sooner or later unless it is stopped NOW.

pisces
I can't disagree with your angle on this subject

Whatever your vice, your hobby or even your belief is in danger from the 'ban it' brigade. They don't stop at one victory.

Fishing enthusiasts beware.(even if you don't smoke or do hunt without dogs)

--- Post edited by Grumpy_Paul on 12/1 2:00 ---

--- Post edited by Grumpy_Paul on 12/1 2:02 ---

bite_me Posted on 12/1 2:02
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

That's probably true pisces but most smokers know that it will shorten their lives but still choose to carry on.

I smoke and will continue to smoke if they ban it in pubs, I will probably stop going to pubs and have more smoky poker nights at home probably killing myself even sooner.

I've been to dublin and new york since they banned smoking in public places and reckon it's taken something away from the bars, apart from smoke. They've lost a lot of the atmosphere.

pisces Posted on 12/1 2:10
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

you see, bite_me, I just can't understand why smokers know they are shortening their lives and yet still carry on smoking. Wouldn't you prefer to stop and maybe have 5-10 more years with your loved ones or maybe enjoying your favourite hobby or travelling etc.? I just think that life is sacred and we should preserve it as long as we possibly can.

bite_me Posted on 12/1 4:02
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Nah, life's overrated.

It's the slow painful death I'm looking forward to.

Don't love anyone anyway.

Timboi Posted on 12/1 4:18
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Does anyone know the effects of pollution from living in a densely-packed town/city? This debate has made me think that there are always loads of 'studies' to show the dangers of smoking but the automotive industry doesn't seem to have these studies (or at least they are less advertised - of course they have studies). I'd be interested to see the dangers of second-hand cigarette smoke vs other forms or airbourne polution.

Mickey_2003 Posted on 12/1 7:39
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

I don't see the point in sheet-stirring this subject matter up more than it already is by having a 'selfish' debate.

Its not going to kill us smokers just to pop outside for a ciggarette. Thats where I do 95% of my own smoking. I am aware of the horrible smell, and all the other consequences that go with it, so I compromise.

I never smoke in peoples' houses, or my own (Lord forbid), I hate smoking in confined spaces, so I am outside where ever I can. Its no skin off my nose. If its raining, then thats hard luck for me, or I decide to pass up on the opportunity.

Get real people, its not life or death (in retrospect), just consideration for those around us. Anyone worth their salt will think along the same lines as me.

Whats up with the world? Wheres the love, and peace and harmony? Looks like some people need to be smoking alternative 'matter'.



Rant over.

Mickey_2003 Posted on 12/1 7:49
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

I love being a thread killer

Capybara Posted on 12/1 8:57
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Good spot YMS. And a well-deserved ton for our friend from Horwich.


--- Post edited by Capybara on 12/1 8:57 ---

mickbrown Posted on 12/1 9:22
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

That's my first.

Thank you very much good people.

FactOrFiction Posted on 12/1 9:34
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Are these selfish dimwits still whining on about their "right" to enjoy themselves at everyone else's expense?

Well, here's a newsflash for you: The ban WILL happen and you will have to deal with it. So stop your roaring and go and buy an umbrella.

freethenorton7 Posted on 12/1 12:57
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Lets ban everything people enjoy shall we, then the miserable brigade will be satisified everyone else is as sad as they are.

mickbrown Posted on 12/1 13:04
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

freethenorton7 - do you smoke in the same room as your kids?

PS I don't smoke and I'm as happy as a pig in shyte

--- Post edited by mickbrown on 12/1 13:12 ---

Mr_Bridger Posted on 12/1 13:07
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Half the people I see smoking in pubs don't actually smoke the fag, they just have it stuck in there hand burning away. Only 10-20% of people are smoking in bars yet 100% of people come out smelling like an ashtray.

freethenorton7 Posted on 12/1 13:10
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

No I dont smoke in the same room as my kid, I do smoke in a traditional environment for smokers, a pub.

They should ban alchohol from pubs, ban people swearing in pubs, ban chatting to ladies in pubs, ban music and fruit machines and anything else remotely resembling fun and maybe then the anti-enjoyment brigade would finally be satisfied.

mickbrown Posted on 12/1 13:13
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Why don't you smoke in the same room as your kid?

rob_fmttm Posted on 12/1 13:15
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

I've said this before I think but have visited Norway a couple of times in the past 4 years and what a difference. Everyone seems to smoke in Norway and smoke a lot. A lot of very unhealthy lifestyles indeed practised. So the government introduced a smoking ban in pubs, clubs and restaurants - the result has been to stimulate a cafe society. There are covered canopies everywhere in all eating and drinking places and everyone sits outside even in winter apparently. Even though it gets far far colder in Norway than here - they have those big burners.

So, could something similar happen here?

freethenorton7 Posted on 12/1 13:16
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

He is a promising footballer I dont want him smoking and hindering his chances.

I dont drink in front of him either.

I dont drive a car near him either.

FactOrFiction Posted on 12/1 13:17
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

You're wasting your time, mick. This idiot and his cohorts will not listen. Don't bother with the facts, because their minds are made up.

smigga Posted on 12/1 13:19
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Can't believe this is still goin! Just fuckk off out the pub and choke yourselves to death! End of!

freethenorton7 Posted on 12/1 13:20
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

As are your fact, though you continue to pollute others with your car, your argument is the oil will run out eventually, great one.

I have stated more than once on this thread, let those who enjoy a smoke in a pub do so in smoking pubs, let the none smoking nazis, general miseries, tree huggers and soya milk fans go elsewhere and we are all happy, what is so wrong with that?

mickbrown Posted on 12/1 13:22
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

So you or your son have never been in a car? How does he get to his matches then?

Fair enough - how about this scenario.

Say I enjoy messing with my chemistry set. I love nothing more than to mix together chemicals and marvel at the colourful and interesting chemical reactions. The downside of my favourite reaction is that it emits a carcogenic gas that stinks of shyte. I mean, really stinks of shyte.

Now would you be happy if I sat down next to you in a pub and started messing with my test tubes?

freethenorton7 Posted on 12/1 13:29
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

If thats what floats your boat mick go for it.

Maybe we could have chemistry set messer about pubs too.

I dont advocate banning cars, I do think those that use cars are complete hypocrites when sanctimoniously berating us smokers when they are doing more damage than us. Surely you can see that point?

I dont care if they introduce none smoking pubs all over the country, fair play to those who dont want to sit in a particular environment, I wouldnt want to sit in a pub full of geordies or tree huggers. I am saying have smokers pubs too, so we can enjoy ourselves away from the hypocrites.

FactOrFiction Posted on 12/1 13:31
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

My argument is that car pollution is bad and cigarette smoke is bad and we have a realistic opportunity to do something about the latter by banning smoking in public places. You can't realistically expect everyone on the planet to stop driving cars. Of course, some people use them for selfish reasons, and people should be encouraged to walk when possible. This doesn't change the fact that smoking in a pub is a nuisance and a health risk to other people. Your idea of smoking only pubs won't work, because you still have to have people working there. Could they discriminate against non-smokers in their search for employees? Don't think so. Your arguments about "the banning brigade" (there's always some "brigade" involved) are fatuous and frankly miss the point, because no-one is stopping you from smoking, they're just asking you to do it somewhere else. Is that really so hard for you to comprehend? So it's time for you to face facts and stop whining and twisting on. Smoking inside pubs is being consigned to the dustbin. Deal with it.

freethenorton7 Posted on 12/1 13:35
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

It would be possible to ban cars from residential areas, schools etc. no outcry for that particular one from you though eh, maybe because you drive...

Not asking you not to drive, just do it elsewhere. Can you comprehend that?

If people apply for a job in a pub they know is a smoking pub whats the problem, ensure they are fully aware of the health risk prior to them taking the job, then get on with it.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 12/1 13:35
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

I've spent quite a bit of time in Ireland since the ban, it's improved the atmosphere in the pubs. I have absolutely nothing against people who smoke. Taking them outside is good for those of us who don't smoke though, the majority of people that is, makes the pub a much more pleasant experience. Why should the majority of us put up with the stink when it can be easily stopped by moving outside for a fag.

The 'other odour' thing about pubs and bookies is a load of rubbish, put about by the smokers.

As for excessive drinking.......how about the licence removed fom the landlord, or does that exist already? How about pub companies being hammered for ignoring the laws on the sale of alcohol? Maybe a law preventing the ownership of more than one pub is the way to go

freethenorton7 Posted on 12/1 13:40
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Dont put up with it, thats my point, you have your antiseptically clean pubs for none smokers and allow us smokers pubs of our own, with staff aware of the job and health risks attached and then we dont have any issues.

Or is it the case that some of this faction actually ARE just miserable gits?

FactOrFiction Posted on 12/1 13:44
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Until someone invents a no-emission car or supplies some other viable alternative, I need to use my current vehicle to get around, so tough poop. On the other hand, you do not need to smoke near me. You can go outside. You only smoke because you want to. There's no hipcrosy here, just you trying to justify your bloody-minded selfishness. You clearly can't grasp a simple difference - i.e. between your selfish pleasure and other people's needs.

whenskiesrgrey Posted on 12/1 13:46
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Sorry for being self-righteous etc, but good luck to anyone else who's been off the weed for the last 12 days, best part of 60 you've saved. It's becoming a minority leisure.

freethenorton7 Posted on 12/1 13:50
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

I asked you before fact, you use your car 100% of the time through neccessity? You have never nipped to the paper shop or sandwich shop, as examples, round the corner for CONVENIENCE? I would be interested in hearing your answer.

Most car users use their car for convenience at least as many times as for neccessity in my opinion so your comments hold no water with me.

I am not being selfish in wanting smoking pubs, in addition to the none smoking ones. Most smokers would probably agree with this proposal, gauging reaction from smokers I know.

The issue of discrimination against none smokers working in those pubs is a none starter too, many people work in hazardous environments and are made aware of the hazards and sign an agreement prior to starting work in that position.

Explain to me why this is not a reasonable proposition and why I am being selfish given these facts, not fiction?

mickbrown Posted on 12/1 13:59
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

" I am saying have smokers pubs too, so we can enjoy ourselves away from the hypocrites." It doesn't work like that though does it?

Yes cars are dangerous but there is one set of rules for everybody. There aren't special sets of roads set aside where those that enjoy driving like dikheads can fly through residential areas knocking down old ladies.

attonBORO Posted on 12/1 14:00
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Ban breathing! No really, ban it! When we breathe, we inhale oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide and that can't be good for us!

FactOrFiction Posted on 12/1 14:03
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Smoking pubs would go out of business. They would get no passing trade and wouldn't be able to serve food. I'm sorry, it's a non-starter. Which Landlords in their right minds would willingly exclude the majority for the interests of a minority? It doesn't make economic sense.

As for my driving, for your information I am disabled, so I can't walk any great distances. I do manage to get across the road to the shops, but it's less than 100 yards.

So you admit people use cars out of necessity? I think you're assertion that they use them for convenience as much as the do for necessity is probably a little inaccurate, but I don't have the stats at my disposal. Whatever, this still means that a great deal of car journeys are necessary, while smoking is not necessary under any circumstances.

freethenorton7 Posted on 12/1 14:05
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Thats not my point mick, I am not talking about dangerous driving I am talking about car emissions and their effect on peoples health.

Thats why I think these people are hypocrites because they use their cars without consideration for other peoples health but then want laws introduced banning smoking in public places in consideration of other peoples health.

They dont always use their cars from neccessity, the essential journeys most people make are a fraction of the actual journeys they make using their cars.

What is wrong with smoking pubs ffs? It seems that those opposing them have a real problem with others having fun.

freethenorton7 Posted on 12/1 14:13
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Well lets ban smoking pubs because they would shut down through lack of business, though we have absolutely no proof of this eh?

My local doesnt serve food and it operates successfully, your argument is ridiculous.

The minority of a whole towns population may smoke. A sizeable minority I am sure you must agree? Fair enough but if in each town you had a few smoking pubs, the smokers that used all the other pubs at the moment would probably start using these few pubs.

I personally think these pubs would be very profitable businesses, you dont have to sell food to have a pub, you would get a certain group of regulars that currently enjoy a smoke in several pubs across a town in one place. You would also get none smokers who CHOOSE to visit these pubs, perhaps to visit friends, enjoy the craic etc. To me it sounds like a great business opportunity, a very profitable venture.

Regardless of if they are profitable or not, as we can only conjecture, WHY THE F_UCK should we ban these before trying it out? Why would you ban something on the off chance it wouldnt be profitable? Outright misery is the only answer I can come up with.

Your arguments become more deranged by the minute.

FactOrFiction Posted on 12/1 14:25
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

If my local became a smoking pub I would be very annoyed. Even if only 20% of pubs became smoking ones, this would happen to a lot of people. Their pleasure and lifestyle would again be damaged because we have to accomodate selfish smokers. You seem determined to put your own desire for pleasure ahead of the overwhelming majority's. It's not a case of us wanting to make you miserable. We want to stop you making us miserable. Like I keep saying OVER AND OVER AGAIN FFS - smoke all you want. Smoke it up and do your worst, but not near me or anyone else who doesn't want your pollution.
Just give me a straight answer for once. Why can't you just smoke outside?

--- Post edited by FactOrFiction on 12/1 14:28 ---

squarewheelbike Posted on 12/1 14:25
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Alongside "political correctness gone mad", there's nowt like the smoking debate to make normal sensible adults talk straight out of their ar5es! Smokers your days of inconsideration are over, deal with it. As for the suggestions that people who dislike ciggerette smoke are in some way miserable killjoys, get a grip. Simple fact of the matter is you do something that the majority collective not only find repugnent and unpleasent, but has a detremental effect on their health. Before you start on the "don't go into pubs then" line, why should I have my life dictated to by a minority?

Someone mentioned the banning of pistol shooting and 4x4's. Reasons for this, pistol shooters started shooting people, (Hungerford, Dunblane anyone?) And 4x4 drivers have been reponsible for numerous trespasses and destruction on sites of special scientific or archeological interest, even when signs were there to tell them of the fact!

PS. I don't drive, so don't use that arguement againstme, I am also an ex-smioker, my way of giving up? I stopped putting tabs in my mouth and setting fire to them, it aint rocket science!

grantus Posted on 12/1 14:25
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

There is a simple and logical solution for this one.

Bring in the law and deal with it like this.

A landlord wants to allow smokers inside the premises. The landlord applies to the local council and needs to provide a seperate section of the pub for said smoking area, alternatively, a signed area with adequate air conditioning so as to have no effect on the rest of the pub.

Providing the smoke dow not affect the rest of the premises, then surely everyone would be happy, wouldn't they?

FactOrFiction Posted on 12/1 14:30
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

SWB hits the nail squarely on the head. Stop making it about your misery, you narcissistic little wasp-flaps. It's not always about you.

freethenorton7 Posted on 12/1 14:38
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

"If my local became a smoking pub I would be very annoyed. Even if only 20% of pubs became smoking ones, this would happen to a lot of people. Their pleasure and lifestyle would again be damaged because we have to accomodate selfish smokers."

No problem we dont want to affect your precious enjoyment at all, how about new smoking pubs are opened, no locals affected that way then is there, thus removing another of your increasingly desperate arguments.

I dont want to have to go outside to enjoy a ciggie whilst in a comfortable environment for me, enjoying a pint with those who CHOOSE to sit in a similar environment. If I was in a NEW smoking pub with like minded individuals who made a personal choice to sit in this particular establishment what is your problem?

Misery I guess?

Edit: If the majority of customers an existing pub wanted the pub to be a smoking one, would you be equally upset if this was your local and became a smoking pub?

--- Post edited by freethenorton7 on 12/1 14:41 ---

mickbrown Posted on 12/1 14:59
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Crack houses. Like minded individuals enjoying the relaxing hit of crack cocaine.

Good or bad idea?

freethenorton7 Posted on 12/1 15:03
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

I may be wrong but isnt crack illegal regardless of where you do it?

Still wondering about a majority of smokers pub, if the rights of the majority are king as seems to be "fact" and others argument then surely the rights of a majority of smokers in a particular pub should hold sway?

Does smoking a ciggie in a pub full of consenting individuals result in anti social behaviour? Does people doing crack? I think that answers that question.

mickbrown Posted on 12/1 15:09
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Regardless of the the rights of smokers or non smokers, I still don't understand why people do it.

If you got lung cancer, would you have any regrets?

freethenorton7 Posted on 12/1 15:14
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

I could get bowel cancer from the carcinogens in petrol emissions, I could have a heart attack from having a less than 100% healthy lifestyle, I could get glassed in the neck in a town centre pub from a drunk, how far do you take it?

Sit in a hospital room surrounded by freh fruit and vegetables eaten through surgically cleansed instruments, drinking only purified water?

Probably get killed from a superbug.

mickbrown Posted on 12/1 15:16
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

True, but most of those you mention would be down to chance. You're actively encouraging it?

Do you want your lad to smoke? Kids whose parents smoke are more likely to take it up.

freethenorton7 Posted on 12/1 15:19
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Chance?

Hardly, if i eat none healthy foods at any time my life expectancy is lower. If I drink alchohol more than the prescribed amount apparently the same. I do not want to exist long and miserably. I would prefer to live life fully as I want to, every aspect of which is a risk.

Edit: I also think that the issue with children smoking because their parents do is also down to educating and looking after your child rather than ignoring them during their upbringing. I am satisfied I care for my child and he will make different choices to mine through my education and care, progress.

--- Post edited by freethenorton7 on 12/1 15:21 ---

mickbrown Posted on 12/1 15:22
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

So "do as I say, not as I do" then?

freethenorton7 Posted on 12/1 15:25
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Do as you choose once you are old enough to make that choice and you are given the facts. Encouraging him with his football means both of us are aware that his fitness level will suffer due to smoking.

I trust my sons judgement and his desire to make a particular life for himself.

Sez_Les_Boro Posted on 12/1 15:27
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

I hate smoking and I hate smokers. I haven't ploughed through all the above, but a pound to a pinch a lot of it consists of smokers trying to justify their habit with their pathetic, slewed logic.

Look, a few facts. To non-smokers, you stink. Your habit of indiscriminately blowing smoke about makes our clothes stink too, even if you say it doesn't, it does.

Banning smoking in public is sensible and easy. Banning cars, jet planes, etc. is not sensible and not easy. Travel by cars is a necessary part of life, smoking isn't.

True, drinking is also harmful, but I haven't heard of anybody dying by passive drinking. Smoke if you wish, but don't subject the MAJORITY to a habit we don't want.

PS. My Granddad died as a direct result of smoking at age 56.

freethenorton7 Posted on 12/1 15:30
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Ok Les, but do you have a problem with smoking in a smoking designated pub, with staff who are consentual to the idea of working in such an environment.

These pubs wont take the place of all the other pubs already in existance.

What is the problem with this happening rather than a blanket ban in all drinking establishments? edit for spelling

I can only come up with the answer that people who want the blanket ban are down right miseries.

--- Post edited by freethenorton7 on 12/1 15:31 ---

mickbrown Posted on 12/1 15:32
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

freethenorton7 - so then, you've laid out the facts to your lad, he knows its bad for him, and would affect his football.

If he said to you, "Give us a fag dad" would you not think "stupid bugger"?

green_beret20 Posted on 12/1 15:33
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Eh, where is this proof that cars cause more harm than fags?
If you want facts heres a few.

Air in the average home is 10 times more polluted than city smog.

Rising asthma levels are due to house dust mite.

Air quality in the UK has been improving for the last 40 years and is forecast to go on improving into the millennium.

Sources: National Asthma Council, the British Allergy Foundation and the Department of Health.

You may wish to point at industries and cars for pollution but the facts are they are cleaning up their act as technology progresses.

I don't see many smokers cleaning up their act and it's nigh time it happened.

freethenorton7 Posted on 12/1 15:34
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Thats my point Mick - he wouldnt say give us a fag dad. He knows the effects of ciggies and therefore wouldnt do it.

FactOrFiction Posted on 12/1 15:36
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

If your desperation to justify your selfishness about your filthy habit wasn't so pathetic it might be endearing.

Build new pubs just for smokers? Yeah right! If making existing pubs smoking only isn't going to be economically viable, then building new ones certainly wouldn't be.

You talk about it being enjoyable, but I can't get it myself. I used to smoke and it just made me feel rotten. I always had a cough and food tasted of nothing. Add to that the cost of it, and the fact that I was giving my hard earned cash to mega-corporations for the pleasure of a slow and painful death, it really doesn't make sense. So it's your life, blah-de-blah, but if you have kids, I would have thought you'd want to have a better chance of seeing them grow up and give you grandchildren. But I guess that's the problem with narcissism. You can't see the big picture.

freethenorton7 Posted on 12/1 15:40
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

"Build new pubs just for smokers? Yeah right! If making existing pubs smoking only isn't going to be economically viable, then building new ones certainly wouldn't be."

YOU said that pubs wouldnt be economically viable, I completely disagree. I personally thnk they would be a gold mine. As is stated elsewhere smokers tend to be heavier drinkers therefore a pub for smokers is more likely to be profitable.

I put forward the suggestion that new ones are opened as not to upset the folk who dont want their locals turned into smoking pubs thus upsetting them.

I think this is very unselfish, your view however is.

"You talk about it being enjoyable, but I can't get it myself. I used to smoke and it just made me feel rotten. I always had a cough and food tasted of nothing. Add to that the cost of it, and the fact that I was giving my hard earned cash to mega-corporations for the pleasure of a slow and painful death, it really doesn't make sense. So it's your life, blah-de-blah, but if you have kids, I would have thought you'd want to have a better chance of seeing them grow up and give you grandchildren. But I guess that's the problem with narcissism. You can't see the big picture."

I do enjoy a smoke, because you dont get it, doesnt mean everyone else feels the same way.

You also used to get it maybe as you used to smoke.

You also dont give your money to other mega corporations that harm others health though eh? Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.

--- Post edited by freethenorton7 on 12/1 15:43 ---

squarewheelbike Posted on 12/1 18:11
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

My Brother has a couple of pubs in central London, when the initial partial ban was suggested he told the Brewery he'd stop doing food and have it as smoking pub. They told him by taking a conscious decision to expose his staff to passive smoking his insurance costs wouls sky-rocket to the extent of financial unviability. I think the government knew this and saw it as a way to get the ban in without the unpopular legislation.

FactOrFiction Posted on 12/1 19:55
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Well there you go. The final nail in the coffin. Thanks again, SWB.

Hey, don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against your idea, apart from that it's pie in the sky. Go ahead and create these smoking-only pubs. We'll see what happens. The smoking supporters have said on here that landlords will miss smokers, who are a minority these days. So by that logic, would a landlord want to exclude the majority? I don't think so, somehow. You can't have it both ways. At least we've got you to agree that you shouldn't smoke around other people who don't want to breathe your fumes.

As for your point about corporations, I don't know any other corporations that produce something that is poisonous and dangerous in any quantity. "Alcohol!" comes the shout, but no, because booze doesn't harm you if used in moderation. In fact, it can be GOOD for you. Can you say that about fags? On top of that, you're making assumptions about me based on no information. I could be a careful shopper/consumer for all you know. But we all know the way of the world. Corporations are out to make money out of us. If a bit of hypcrisy is my worst crime, then stick me up in front of the beak.

--- Post edited by FactOrFiction on 12/1 19:56 ---

captain_cookie Posted on 12/1 23:41
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

if I was ever to suffer the grave misfortune of meeting FartOrFiction or I should immediately light up and blow 0.5 mg of tar and 7 of nicotine directly into his smug, self-satisfied face simply because he's such a complete, pompous ass.

HalfManHalfParmo Posted on 13/1 1:36
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Smoking should be banned wherever non-smokers are.Don't TAR us with your mush.

Inage Posted on 13/1 7:17
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

All I can say is thank God I'm living in Japan for now. Surprisingly despite the old racial stereotypes, the Japanese respect peoples foibles and idiosyncracies and indeed JAL was one of the last of the world's airlines to ban smoking.

We smokers all know the arguments and I have quit on two separate occasions for at least 2 years but now accept that once you are a smoker increased stress levels leave you vulnerable to starting again.

Maybe not surprisingly the Japanese are very health concious and have a reputation for longevity. However, there are many smokers here and cigarettes cost 25% of the cost in the UK. There are some strange bye-laws recently introduced like not being able to smoke on the street in certain cities, where I'm living included.

My purpose in posting, I suppose, I to highlight attitudes. Intolerance, in whatever form it manifests itself, goes against the grain of the average liberal thinking Brit.

The medical profession have their own agenda regarding smoking and we all know that it's not good for your health. However, my father (told me he smoked from the age of 12)lived a full and active life for eighty years without "smoking related" illness and I have yet to see any acceptable research that clearly implicates "passive smoking". In fact, it would be extremely difficult to set the parameters for any meaningful statistical research.

The information I would like all non-smokers to consider is this. Following the removal of lead from petrol, to reach the octane ratings required, more benzene is now present in 95 grade petrol. Benzene is one of the most carcinogenic substances known. Every time you fill your tank, you get a dose of benzene. Even the most efficient of modern car engines do not burn the fuel 100% and some free benzene is released into the atmosphere.

Coke production for the steel industry was once a major source of benzene.

Considering the industrial history of Teesside and the admittedly high levels of lung cancer and chest diseases in the population, how certain are you that smoking is the real problem? Is car use more anti-social than smoking? Are you sure?

freethenorton7 Posted on 13/1 9:40
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Great post Inage.

You really cant see any other opinion than your own eh fact. Some pubs are sports bars they dont cater to the entire population and they are successful. Some pubs dont have music in them they are successful, 29% of the nation smokes, if smoking bans were introduced in pubs and smoking pubs allowed I would settle for running a business that caters to up to 29% of the nations population.

Because someones brother was told something off someone else is hardly the final nail in the coffin. People choose to work clearing asbestos from buildings, people choose to fight fires, people choose to work in nuclear power stations, oil rigs, we can go on and on, their industries survive high insurance costs, I am sure a chain of smoking pubs could to.


You havent got me to agree that I shouldnt smoke around people who dont want me to, I was always open to the idea of none smoking pubs, I never smoke in a place where food is being served for example. My point has always been leave us alone to enjoy our pleasures in a consentual smoking pub envirnonment and you can live your intolerant, small minded, selfish, hypocritical and miserable existance in your antiseptic none smoking pubs.

Edit: "As for your point about corporations, I don't know any other corporations that produce something that is poisonous and dangerous in any quantity"

BP? Shell? Texaco? etc.

--- Post edited by freethenorton7 on 13/1 9:47 ---

Vox_populi Posted on 13/1 10:08
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Will the medical experts place on here the proof the secondary smoking is dangerous to others. BTW I have never smoked. As for clothes smelling the following morning, we have a washing machine in our house, that normally gets rid of the problem.

My parents have always smoked, before during and after my birth, according to my last check up my lungs seem to be OK.

ayrshire_red Posted on 13/1 10:27
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but up here in Scotland smoking is to be banned from all public places in March this year. Nobody is quite sure how it will go. But i have met many people who are in the process of packing smoking in because of the ban. Also any landlord/restaurant owner who does not comply with the ban will be heaviliy fined and possibly have their establishment closed down for constant offenders. Many up here are in total support of the ban even smokers who see this as an opportunity/excuse to stop smoking. I also do a lot of business in Dublin and it has not had the adverse effect many predicted when the ban was announced. Smoking is only social to those who choose to smoke, to non smokers it is very anti social and only when we are a couple of years in to the ban will we look back and think how disgusting it used to be when you have a intake of somebodies smoke after they have enjoyed their meal then light up as you are eating yours. Totally disgusting.

FactOrFiction Posted on 13/1 10:47
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

"if I was ever to suffer the grave misfortune of meeting FartOrFiction or I should immediately light up and blow 0.5 mg of tar and 7 of nicotine directly into his smug, self-satisfied face simply because he's such a complete, pompous ass."

Sums up the attitude of pro-smokers.

And I would happily stub your cigarette out in your eye.

Sez_Les_Boro Posted on 13/1 10:53
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Smokers - your arguments are invalid and laughable. Rather than trying to justify the unjustifiable, have you ever considered giving up?

Vox_populi Posted on 13/1 10:55
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Nissed up lunatics I have always found far more offensive than a bloke having a smoke in an open environment.

FactOrFiction Posted on 13/1 11:07
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

BP? Texaco?
Petrol drinker are we?

Again, the attempt to compare smoking (a selfish pleasure-giving luxury 100% of the time) to dribing (a necessity at least 60% of them time, a luxury 40% or less). It's like comparing fox-hunting to shopping at Tescos.

It's also amusing how people start banging on about anti-liberal laws when they are anything but liberal in their general view of the world.

And, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, listen! Open your ears and eyes and listen for the umpteenth time - YOU CAN STILL SMOKE if you really want to. In the same way as I can masturbate if I want to. I just don't do it around other people. And give your smoking only pubs a go. It makes no odds to me, it's just my opinion that they wouldn't work, OK?

horse_head Posted on 13/1 11:11
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

When I work in Glasgow, my bar of choice is 100% smoking (including staff). People don't look to well but it works.

Capybara Posted on 13/1 11:17
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Driving isn't a necessity. It's a luxury. And it is helping to fck the planet up. Selfish drivers.

BoroMutt Posted on 13/1 11:21
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

"Driving isn't a necessity. It's a luxury." - so how do you explain how you got to work this morning? Bus, Train, Car, Taxi? Unless I'm very much mistaken there was a driver on each of these vehicles even if it wasn't you Mr. Bara. Perhaps you are one of the fortunate few who can walk to work? Even so next time you buy something what do think are the odds that it walked to the shop...

Capybara Posted on 13/1 11:29
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

It wasn't aimed at you, Mr Mutt

But, for info, depending on which office I am going to, either walking or, as this morning, train (electric). Yes, and I know where electricity comes from.

--- Post edited by Capybara on 13/1 11:29 ---

Mr_Bridger Posted on 13/1 11:31
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Cars in this country are hardly contributing to the worlds polution problems. Driving modern cars produces far less polution than older cars. Think ratio is 10 new to 1 old. Most of the worlds problems comes from power stations and industry in eastern europe, china and south america. USA needs to cut down on there car emisions.
Can't remember the last time I came home smelling of exhaust fumes.

green_beret20 Posted on 13/1 11:39
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

So just to summarise then for all you latecomers.

Smokers say that we have to return to the dark ages (no cars, no industry) in order for them to go outside to have a tab.

Unreasonable, yes I think so.

Capybara Posted on 13/1 11:40
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Oh, and I'm not a smoker.

FactOrFiction Posted on 13/1 11:53
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

As much as I'm an admirer of your work, Mr. Bara, I do feel that you are talking utter bollox on this occassion.

You live and work in London (correct me if I'm wrong, which I'm sure you won't hesitate to do ), which has the best public transport infrastructure in the country. (A moot point, I guess). I live in a small town, with very little choice in the way of public transport. When there is a viable alternative to cars, I will use it.

--- Post edited by FactOrFiction on 13/1 11:54 ---

Azedarac Posted on 13/1 12:48
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

I don't smoke - never have. I'd quite happily drink in a smoke-free pub. My problem is the banning mentality. All banning smoking in pubs does is mean smokers will go outside for a fag, and continue to smoke at home.

A far better way to get a smoke free environment is the decline of smoking. Kids these days leave school knowing all about the effects of smoking, quite a few people on here have kept up the level of anti-smoking zeal we all felt after the biology lesson where you see a tar-ridden lung. How many people begin smoking after the age of 18? I wouldn't bet on it being many, most start through peer pressure in their school years. So in the long term I reckon the number of smokers can be cut down by continued education, raising the age to buy cigarettes to 18, and coming down heavily on retailers that sell to anyone under that age.

Of course that's long term, and it doesn't give you any smoke-free pubs today. I genuinely believe a ban isn't required in pubs. Market forces will do the job. If the majority of people want smoke free pubs, then they will patronise pubs with a smoking ban. So these pubs will become successful, and other pubs will emulate them. The pubs that allow smoking will soon become known, and smokers or people who don't mind smoke will use them. The number of smoking/non-smoking pubs will even out to represent the amount of people who want each type of pub.

Why hasn't this happened in the past? Maybe no pub chain wanted to be the first to start smoke-free pubs. I know for a fact that the Wetherspoons pubs near me are introducing it, ban or no ban. If they are successful it will start the ball rolling.

One area I'd relax my anti-banning attitude is Karaoke.

freethenorton7 Posted on 13/1 13:30
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

"So just to summarise then for all you latecomers.

Smokers say that we have to return to the dark ages (no cars, no industry) in order for them to go outside to have a tab.

Unreasonable, yes I think so."

Nope never said anything like it please read my comments again. I dont advocate banning cars, I do think miserable people who drive polluting the air and then sanctimoniously have a go at smokers are pathetic.

I do think if people want none smoking pubs they are welcome to them. I also think it is scandalous that people should go round banning everything and anything that a fair proportion of the country in this case(29%) partake of, without any consideration for their wants.

I am willing as would many smokers to smoke only in smoker pubs, others can choose not to visit these pubs, their choice. In exactly the same way it is my choice to have a smoke sometimes when I am having a pint. It would also be my choice not to go to said none smoking pubs and chat about saving the snail or whatever. Live and let live and stop being so downright miserable.

You are the one that sounds unreasonable to me if you would not consider this a fair way of going about things.

FactOrFiction Posted on 13/1 13:44
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Not a bad suggestion, actually, Azerdac. Let the market decide.

What makes me laugh (HO HO HO) is the way smokers portray themselves as interesting, rebellious people who are being oppressed by airy-fairy, muesli-eating, sandal-wearing dullards. It's as if being a smoker makes you a Jedi knight or something. Ooh, look he's got a white stick in his mouth, he must be mysterious and soooo interesting. Rubbish. The fact of the matter is, most smokers stink to high heaven and have yellow teeth and fingers. Along with your raspy, hacking cough, you are not really an attractive prospect. And you drone on and on about your right to smoke. You're seen as nothing more than weak-willed leeches who will end up draining the country's resources when you end up in hospital. Oh, sure, I bet a lot of people know one person who lived to a ripe old age whilst smoking 40 a day, but they're just a very lucky minority. Anyone who thinks otherwise is sadly deluded. Wake up and smell the coffee. What? Oh, sorry, your sense of smell is knackered isn't it.

Capybara Posted on 13/1 13:47
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Actually, I'm a bit of an airy-fairy, muesli-eating, sandal-wearing dullard myself though I neither eat muesli, nor wear sandals. And I don't recognise that description of any of the smokers I know.

squarewheelbike Posted on 13/1 14:12
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Why this bizarre assumption that someone who doesn't like tobacco smoke are ... well you know! It really is no defence of an arguement to project a your own ill conceived presumptions about someone elses thought processes.

As for statements regarding no real proof of the dangers of passive smoking, get your heads out of the sand and deal with the reality of the situation.

Inage, you have a problem, your in denial!

--- Post edited by squarewheelbike on 13/1 14:13 ---

freethenorton7 Posted on 13/1 14:56
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

"Not a bad suggestion, actually, Azerdac. Let the market decide."

Which is more or less what I suggested a lot earlier in this thread, look above your latest rant fact and you might even see it.

Ex-smokers are always the most rabid...

Ex-anything in my experience, moaning and whinging, if I cant or dont do it anymore then I dont want anyone to.

Is it ok to use the word blackboard in your house fact? Do you think we should have 1000's of ethnic outreach officers, asylum seekers liason focus groups, lesbian and gay cruising support workers? Is it good and right the banning of standing in football grounds has been implemented? Do trees have feelings?

Wouldnt swap places with someone so anti-other people for all the money in the world, you ought to lighten up and let others get on with enjoying their lives as they choose. Particularly as the solution to your problem with smokers is easily solved without having to resort to oppresive bans.

Inage Posted on 13/1 15:22
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

I've read some horseshit in my time on this board but some on this thread is just hilarious.

Examples:

"Cars in this country are hardly contributing to the world's pollution problems"

The dangers of secondary smoke are not proven. It is only an assumption. A non-smoker "Vox Populi" asks for non-smokers to post a link to research. We are waiting. If you read my earlier thread it is impossible to prove a causal link statistically because of the effects of other environmental factors.

Note: The original research showing a causal link between lung cancer and smoking was based on statistical analysis of lung cancer in smokers and non-smokers. It proved an increased risk.

Comments such as drain on the NHS by smokers is a myth. Non-smokers are susceptible to the same health problems but statistically less so. However, smokers through taxes contribute significantly more than non-smokers.

As far as being in denial Mr Squarewheel, I think not. I am prepared to take the risks of smoking, if it shortens my life by a few years so be it. I have also taken my other risks that statistically make me more likely to have life threatening accidents, (driving a car, flying in helicopters regularly, working in jungle and desert locations, having one night stands, drinking too much). What makes smoking such a special case for all the antis?

I admit that the smell of tobacco smoke can be objectionable. Those that object should just find a smoke free pub along with other non-smokers and leave us to enjoy our addiction in peace.

horse_head Posted on 13/1 15:32
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Top post!

I smoke, I often try to give up. I know the dangers but also can't help but enjoy it (yes, I actually enjoy it).

If I go to a restaurant I don't light up as soon as I've finished. If need be, I'ld go outside. I don't smoke in cinemas, on buses or trains, or in the homes of non-smokers.

However, if I'm in a pub where a number of punters smoke and the landlord is ok with that (and the staff are too) then whats the problem - why do certain people have a problem with that. Just choose to drink elsewhere.

boro74 Posted on 13/1 16:31
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

I don't go in pubs much these days. I don't like the smoke. I'd probably go in more often if they were smoke free. That's my choice. The people that work in pubs however have no say in the matter. They have to be there because they work there. Why should they be forced to accept this health risk? Passive smoking is not good for your health.

Link: research

squarewheelbike Posted on 13/1 16:36
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Quote from Inage.

"As for being in denial Mr Squarewheel, I think not!"


Inage Posted on 13/1 16:57
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Mr. Squarewheel: The paper does not claim to prove a causal link, and I quote from the paper.

"This study strengthens the case for a causal association
between secondhand smoke and mortality" It was also lifted from the ASH website. There have been other studies that have failed to find a causal association.

Strange that ASH are using a NZ study.

My point was that a causal link had not be shown. One paper indicating a strong case does not support your argument which was that I'm in denial. I know the facts and accept the risks. Do the anti-smokers know the risks of all the other things they ingest daily? I would suggest, no. Smokers are just an easy target.

On the subject of researchers, have you noticed the case of the South Korean cloning expert. It is quite easy to scue research to make a name for yourself although I am not suggesting that is the case here.

Since the whole debate about passive smoking began, there have been many researchers working on showing "causal association". I have yet to see a definitive answer.

--- Post edited by Inage on 13/1 17:04 ---

OhWell Posted on 13/1 17:00
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

"Smokers are just an easy target"

Only cos you can't run very far and can be sniffed out if you try to hide :)

FactOrFiction Posted on 13/1 19:38
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Boo-hoo-hoo, blub-blub-blub. Poor smokers are the victims. That's all you've ever been saying all through this thread.

I'm sick to the back teeth of repeating myself, but for one last time, I will give it a go...

SMOKING IS NOT BEING BANNED.

That is a 100% indisputable fact. Even though people who pretend to be clever (but can't even spell "skew") try to deny and evade (smoking apologists are not much better than people who deny the Holocaust happened, IMO), and even though people try and fail to equate a un-necessary selfish luxury with a necessary evil, and even though they continaully cast themselves as the rebellious victims of injustice against the various "brigades" of the world, the truth is as plain as day. Passive smoking is unpleasant at best, and harmful at worst. The evidence was asked for, it was presented, and it was dismissed (quelle surprise).

So accept the inevitable and grow up. You aren't the victims. We aren't all boring, miserable, banning-mad jobsworths. The wishes of the majority are being listened to, and you have to like it or lump it. It's not like you're being told not to smoke at all (AGAIN?). You're just being asked to do it away from those who find the residual effects annoying and unpleasant. I afford you the same courtesy when I do things you might find unpleasant SOLELY for my own pleasure, so why can't you do the same? I'm sure you'll howl and bawl some more, stamp your feet, continue to stick your fingers in your ears, and carry on making trite and pointless analogies. But I've said all I have to say. This debate has moved maybe half an inch since mick's original post, so it would be a waste of my time to just go over old ground again.

Good day to you.

FactOrFiction Posted on 13/1 19:44
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Final, final one. A quick google and...

Studies refuting the passive-smoking research were backed by the tobacco industry.

WHAT DO YOU KNOW?

Link: Stick this in yer pipe.

freethenorton7 Posted on 13/1 19:56
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

(smoking apologists are not much better than people who deny the Holocaust happened, IMO)

Superb, you are amazing, well done.

FactOrFiction Posted on 13/1 19:59
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Fair enough, I take that back. I meant people who deny the effects of passive smoking.

I wonder if they smoke around their kids.

Sianara.

Azedarac Posted on 13/1 20:05
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

The scientific method seems to have gone out of the window when it comes to the effects of passive smoking.

The usual method is:
Observe
Theorise
Test the theory
If theory is not supported return to stage one
If theory is supported reach a conclusion

In the case of proving passive smoking the routine has changed to

Theorise
Reach a conclusion before any testing to back it up
Test conclusion until the desired result is reached. Ignore any results that don't support it.

Don't get me wrong, I still believe that passive smoking has risks, but I'm not comfortable with the way people are trying to prove it as a point of principle and chucking out the scientific method if it doesn't support that agenda.

FactOrFiction Posted on 13/1 20:18
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

The majority of studies are showing/have showed passive smoking to be harmful. The ONE big one that didn't show this was backed by the tobacco industry.

It's not rocket science.

freethenorton7 Posted on 13/1 20:18
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

So people who deny that 6 million jewish people were killed in the holocaust, despite their being incontrovertible proof that this happened, graveyards, gas chambers, documentary evidence, survivor interviews etc.

are as bad as

someone who questions if passive smoking is a health risk, despite there not being 100% proof. In fact their is no actual proof. Not saying that their isnt a risk mind you but until you have the same level of proof as their exists for the holocaust isnt your opinion a little blinkered?

You are outrageous in your small minded attitude, again, well done.

FactOrFiction Posted on 13/1 20:25
re: Smokers - better buy a umbrella

Are you on a wind up?
You're doing it now. Denial in the face of facts.
READ THE LINK. And then deny there is proof.