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samauri_warrior Posted on 2/6 20:34
10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Apparently at the world cup if you sing this song the police will nick you and you get deported.







At long bloody last.

Grrreds Posted on 2/6 20:40
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

oh no, not again.

(agreed)

bored_at_work Posted on 2/6 20:41
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

dont mention ze war

neiltrodden Posted on 2/6 21:09
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

You won't actually. Anything which is to do with the nazis such as goose-stepping or nazi salutes is likely to get you in a bit of bother.

samauri_warrior Posted on 2/6 22:46
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Not so - in the paper today - sing 10 german bombers and your back to blighty quicker thana V2 rocket.

blaggamuffin Posted on 2/6 22:49
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

I mentioned it once but I think I got away with it....

samauri_warrior Posted on 2/6 23:00
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked


bozo83 Posted on 2/6 23:05
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Thought they were over it? The nazis tried to round up pople who didnt share their views, any similarities?

Boro_Gadgie Posted on 3/6 11:30
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

It was over 60 years ago FFS! The Jerries really need to get over it. As Basil Fawlty said, they've obviously no sense of humour.

When we were staying in Dusseldorf prior to the UEFA final, one of our party was talking about someone they know being quite pale and thin. "They looked like they'd just come out of a concentration camp". They didn't realise what they'd said at first so I'm going "Sshhh, dont mention...."

BillHicksBoro Posted on 3/6 11:36
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

its over 60 years ago, why don't we get over it?

Seems a bit weird of a weird chant to me.

number_10 Posted on 3/6 11:41
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Quite right aswell.

Anyone who sings them needs to grow the fck up.

Boro_Gadgie Posted on 3/6 11:48
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

What I said was a bit tongue in cheek and I was just fishing for a bite. Totally agree Bill Hicks. I've said on here before that the song trivialises what happened 60 years ago and is therefore disrespectful to those who lost their lives. I doubt you would here any RAF veterans from WW2 singing it.

OK it was over 60 years ago, but we shouldn't forget the sacrifices made 60 years ago, but it should be done with a bit more respect and decorum. We should also show a bit more respect for our hosts in Germany. After staying over there recently, I found the Germans really friendly, genuine and sincere.

BillHicksBoro Posted on 3/6 11:56
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

No worries BG.. I've just got up and my brains not in gear yet

ive_lost_me_flag Posted on 3/6 12:00
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

What about "2 world wars and 1 world cup"?

And I think the German bombers song is quality, just a bit of banter isnt it?!

The_Commisar Posted on 3/6 12:04
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

aye just a bit of banter, same with spurs, I mean, whats wrong with making a joke about gas chambers, I mean. it hardly cheapens the death of 6 million people.
And FFS just because a few footballers died in an aircrash in manchester, whats all the fuss about ?
Same with everyone having a laugh about Cleveland and child abuse, I mean, thats not offensive is it, oh, thats different.....


<thos without a sense of irony may fail to get the above>

ive_lost_me_flag Posted on 3/6 12:08
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Righto, but its their fault, they tried to invade everyone or have I been getting dodgy history lessons? With the Jews, the Jews did nowt wrong, but the Germans/Nazis were pure evil.

--- Post edited by ive_lost_me_flag on 3/6 12:15 ---

PEFB Posted on 3/6 12:10
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Songs are songs and that is it, does anybody really believe:

"Middlesbrough FC is the finest team the world has ever seen"

Not likely, songs are for singing and not whinging about. I'm actually going to Germany and will be there in good voice. So how many German bombers where there?

The_Commisar Posted on 3/6 12:11
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Flag
Thank you for that sweeping generalisation
"Righto, but its their fault"

ive_lost_me_flag Posted on 3/6 12:12
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Sweeping generalization <confused smiley>

wtf does that mean?

The_Commisar Posted on 3/6 12:14
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

PEFB
Songs are songs ?
Right, sing 10 German Bombers and whilst your at it sing Horst Wessel. it will be met with the same response by the German police.

Boro_Gadgie Posted on 3/6 12:15
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

ILMF, "With the Jews they did nowt wrong". I hope you mean the Jews did nowt wrong and that you're not saying that the Germans did nowt wrong with their treatment of the Jews. It just looks a bit amiguous, that's all.

The other comment about it being their fault sounds a bit like the "You started it, you invaded Poland" line from Fawlty Towers.

ive_lost_me_flag Posted on 3/6 12:16
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

I did mean the Jews did nowt wrong but I edited to stop any confusion.

Boro_Gadgie Posted on 3/6 12:17
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Fair enough then ILMF. No problem.

PEFB Posted on 3/6 12:23
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

It is history and thats it, it happened and thats it and if I want sing about I will, and quite frankly I'll take my chance thankyou.

It is all about freedom of speech fella and if I want to sing, I will. Threats like this are always made, but lets be realistic I am sure the German police will be more concerned about the plastic furniture throwers to worry about a song.

PC madness is sweeping the globe and no where more than England. So bolllox to the middle aged left wing Westander shirt wearers! Of which I'm sure most of you are.

number_10 Posted on 3/6 12:26
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

"Righto, but its their fault, they tried to invade everyone or have I been getting dodgy history lessons? With the Jews, the Jews did nowt wrong, but the Germans/Nazis were pure evil."

So modern Germany should have to pay for the mistakes of generations ago should they?

Do you really think it's acceptable to label a group of people as fascists because of the mistakes of the past. Do you think the Germans aren't ashamed of what happened? Do you think they still believe in Nazism?

On the same line, if we're talking history, how about the UK systematically enslaving and raping countless nations? Yet some people are proud of this empire!?

They're hosting all these nations and welcoming thousands of peoples from different cultures from all over the world, with open arms. The german people in my experience are some of the most friendly and welcoming people on the planet.

So while you're waving that Union Jack singing Ten German Bombers, have a look in the mirror and think who the real xenophobic, intolerant fcking fascist is.

God, I fcking hate England fans.

ive_lost_me_flag Posted on 3/6 12:26
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

PEFPs right there are some crazy laws. For singing a song about a (sort of) actual event you can get arrested!? Thats just stupid.

broady91 Posted on 3/6 13:23
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Don't want to get absolutely blasted but isn't singing 'criminals' to ausies exactly the same and people don't have any problems with that

7_The_Informer Posted on 3/6 13:38
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Was on a ferry a couple of weeks ago just off the coast of Sardinia when some german put up the german flag next to the Italian one flying on the boat. A dutchman just turned to me and sighed "so, the two flags of fascism are up there". I don't think it's only the English who haven't forgotten ....

As for the songs and goose-stepping, I was in Madrid last summer with some german friends and they thought that it was hilarious - they only know about the goose-stepping from watching English TV. Consequently they goose-stepped through Madrid in the early hours of the morning (not sure whether alcohol intake had any effect on this though).

Although one of my grandads fought in the war and had some very nasty experiences with germans which meant that he could never forget or forgive, thankfully that didn't rub off on me. Some of my best mates are german and are certainly much better gadgies than any of the chavs which permeate British society. Unfortunately, many of these chavs will be in germany this summer following the "England Cause". At times, it really makes you sick.

NorfolknGood Posted on 3/6 13:40
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Welcome to the cleveland branch of the B N P.

Youth leader - I've lost me brains.

ive_lost_me_flag Posted on 3/6 14:55
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Norfolk I aint racist! Its called a rivalry and banter. You give it, you take it, simple!

Fabio_The_Rock Posted on 3/6 17:28
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Remember that song is just a story, it's not about a particular battle, and therefore should not rile people as much as it seems to have done. Of course WWII should not be trivialised, but I think some posters are confusing people who are just enjoying a laugh (ILMF) with actual NF members. People really need to lighten up on here.

boro_steve Posted on 3/6 17:37
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Sorry ILMF but mate stop and think about the countless thousands who died in that war. Stop being disrespectful and find something else to sing about, perhaps a song that actually relates to football?!

shaungav Posted on 3/6 17:47
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

I could hear it being sung at OT today.

juninho_the_legend Posted on 3/6 17:53
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

you can tel i_l_m_f is a kid cant you!

holgate_rochey Posted on 3/6 18:15
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

here we go again, its a good song to sing, and will definitely be getting sung in Germany so stop moaning. Don't try and make out that its got nothing to do with football, and it wasnt just the RAF from England that done the shooting etc, it doesnt matter, its just a song, you sad twa_ts.

boro_steve Posted on 3/6 18:57
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Go on then, enlighten me, what does this song have to do with football?

The war was 60 years ago, don't you think it's time we moved on? Why not sing songs about the team or the players instead of something that happened 60 years ago when millions died?

TheBoy999 Posted on 3/6 19:58
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Its all about tribalism.

Gains Posted on 3/6 20:12
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Politically correct do-gooders. The song is sung in jest and is good crack and like Rochey said, if there's 1 thing that can be guaranteed this world cup it's that England fans will sing 10 German bombers.

Even some Germans sing it!!!

Link: German lads singing.

boro_steve Posted on 3/6 20:24
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

So you don't agree that when visiting another country you should show some respect at least to the people who live there now even if you won't show some respect for the men and women who died for you?

speckyget Posted on 3/6 20:26
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

The most irritating part of this particular ditty is about stereotypes. Doesn't wind the Germans up much by all accounts, just sends them home with the warm feeling of having their prejudices - i.e., that the English are thick, poorly educated past-dwellers with low self esteem - well and truly reinforced.

There is a truism that we won the war and Germany won the peace.

They're not shaking their heads in disgust gentlemen, it's pity.

Gains Posted on 3/6 20:42
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Jesus wept.

TheBoy999 Posted on 3/6 20:43
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Speckyget i think you summed it up why we feel the need to have a dig at the Germans "we won the war and Germany won the peace."

I really can't see the problem with the chant. I reckon its the people singing it you have a problem with.

Pubtonic Posted on 3/6 20:47
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Well.....they started it!!

boro_steve Posted on 3/6 21:04
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

If you can't see the problem with the chant then you really do have problems.

Think about how people from Middlesbrough feel when morons from other clubs start singing about child abuse etc.

Do you really have no capacity for empathy?

Pubtonic Posted on 3/6 21:11
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Best pretend it all never happened really...*Head in sand*

TheBoy999 Posted on 3/6 21:17
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

"Think about how people from Middlesbrough feel when morons from other clubs start singing about child abuse etc."

It honestly doesn't bother me. I think if you connect the actual events and the name calling at football matches you've got problems.

I don't see what the Germans are trying to do, hide the fact that the war ever happened? Ffs the French still hate us for Agincourt and that was nearly 600 years ago.

boro_steve Posted on 3/6 21:20
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Just because it doesn't offend you that does not mean it doesn't offend other people. You clearly have no capacity for empathy.

If you think the French hate us then you really do have problems, have you actually travelled outside of England in your life?!

TheBoy999 Posted on 3/6 21:32
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

I actually knew a lad who was involved in the abuse case and i do not connect him with the thick Geordies singing "whats it like to sh@g your kids". Thats what happens at football matches ffs. Its nothing personal, its not aimed at one individual like racist chanting often is. Its a bit of fun.

Whats happened to football, sanitized, Americanized, sit down or you'll be chucked out shi-te!!!!!!!!!!!

--- Post edited by TheBoy999 on 3/6 21:41 ---

TheBoy999 Posted on 3/6 21:32
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

double post.

--- Post edited by TheBoy999 on 3/6 21:33 ---

ive_lost_me_flag Posted on 3/6 21:37
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

I dont think its a big deal, really how is it? Its just a song to wind our rivals Germany up, simple as that.

Pubtonic Posted on 3/6 21:41
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

We'll always have nuclear weapons as long as the French do...fact!

Gains Posted on 3/6 21:41
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

boro_steve please stop saying everyone's got problems.

So what would you call getting upset over a funny song, sang in jest for a bit of a daft wind up with some rival fans. I for one, would call it a problem. FFS there's a lot worse things to worry about than this.

What a bore-draw some people are.

TheBoy999 Posted on 3/6 21:46
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

I should hope we'll always have Nuclear weapons. They've kept the peace for 60 years.

boro_steve Posted on 3/6 21:49
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Clearly you don't get why people are upset by songs such as this. Perhaps a visit to the Auschwitz-Birkenau museum might help.

You are singing, glibly, about a war where millions perished in a country that is still deeply ashamed of their past. They have desperately tried to change their image and people like you keep reminding them of it.

Remember the war and the horrors by all means, to taunt German people with it, that's pure thuggery.

I have nothing more to say since it seems clear you cannot comprehend concepts such as empathy or respect.

--- Post edited by boro_steve on 3/6 21:49 ---

boro_steve Posted on 3/6 21:50
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Oh and the fact of the matter is when you're in another country you respect their laws and customs, break their laws and they'll have you arrested, don't like it then don't go to their country!

ive_lost_me_flag Posted on 3/6 21:55
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Theyre hosting the world cup, if people dont like it then it shouldnt be in that country.

And of course I respect wot happens at Auschwitz but why do we need to think about that? Its called banter.

Gains Posted on 3/6 21:56
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Come on man, lighten up. The World Cup is around the corner and no doubt you and I will soon be donning our German helmets and duck walking down Southfield road after every England win won't we?

Course we will. There's a good lad.

TheBoy999 Posted on 3/6 22:03
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

"They have desperately tried to change their image and people like you keep reminding them of it."

Yes, lets pretend it never happened, sweep it under the carpet we don't need to know about all the nasty things that happened in the past. I suppose you think we should just forget about the slave trade aswell but nasty people keep 'reminding' us of it.

littlejimmy Posted on 3/6 22:18
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

No-one should EVER forget what Hitler and the Nazis did, and you can bet your bottom deutshmark that the Germans won't forget, but to use this as an excuse for singing this song is beyond ridicule, it really is. As if teaching history to people is the motivation for singing it, FFS! GROW UP!

samauri_warrior Posted on 3/6 22:57
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

' I suppose you think we should just forget about the slave trade aswell but nasty people keep 'reminding' us of it. '- thing is if we play Nigeria we dont all sing'You were slaves,you were slaves ,you were slaves....'

the war was 60 years ago - most people singing 10 German bombers werent born then. Give it a rest and move on. as Boro_Steve says the Germans have why dont we.

The Germans I met In Stuttgart were top class people,they are embracing the 21st century, so should we.

ive_lost_me_flag Posted on 3/6 23:00
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Thats becos the Germans are embarrased of their past, were proud of our past. Theres the difference.

samauri_warrior Posted on 3/6 23:02
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

They arent embarressd - why should they be? If you are a german aged 20 , the war was nowt to do with you. As for being proud of our heritage study history son. We ruled the world at one stage and if you delve deep enough committed massacres on every continent....not unlike the Germans.

Pubtonic Posted on 3/6 23:06
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

And what would we be 'embracing'if we had lost?

samauri_warrior Posted on 3/6 23:09
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

We didnt, so thats a pointless question

Pubtonic Posted on 3/6 23:18
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

We'd be 'winning the peace'....and it'd be Germans singing '10 English Bombers'!

NorfolknGood Posted on 3/6 23:43
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

I've lost me brains
The point is we should all be thinking of the present and the future. The past is over, thats why its called the past.

If we didnt think about the future we would be left with the awful thouht that people like you and others of a similar mind set are going to be fuckwits for the rest of your lives and that would just be too terrible to contemplate. There has to be a future for you to grow up and grow out of it.

Pubtonic Posted on 3/6 23:47
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Who cares!....this country's fooked!

Gains Posted on 4/6 7:04
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

It amazes me people are getting so profound over a song. And now, people who see nothing wrong in a bit of fun are fckwits!!!

What an assemble of bore-lords.

TheBoy999 Posted on 4/6 8:43
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

At the end of the day its just a daft chant sang at football matches and i don't believe it does anybody any harm. No one kicks and screams about Flower Of Scotland which refers to past battles with the English or The Star-Spangled Banner which was wrote during a Royal Navy bombardment, so why the fuss about this?

holgate_rochey Posted on 4/6 12:40
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

we have the same boring thread about it, everytime Boro fans sing it away in Europe, its boring, if you don't like it then don't sing it, don't try and spoil everyone else's fun, I like singing it, it's good craic.

NorfolknGood Posted on 4/6 12:41
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

two more fuckwits joinn the club.

what was it like to be abused by your parents?

Gains Posted on 4/6 12:48
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Norfolk. That last comment was far worse than singing any song you fcking hypocrite. You should be careful making comments like that.

Boro_Gadgie Posted on 4/6 13:23
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Gains, "duck walking down Southfield road". That'll be the Chuck Berry fans, I suppose?

holgate_rochey Posted on 4/6 13:28
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

exactly gains, Norfolk, you t_osser, child abuse is alot worse than singing about a war that did actually happen, the song is sang in jest but you are just sick.

OverTheTopAussie Posted on 4/6 13:36
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

You kiddy fiddlers in Boro should just keep your insults to yourselves. I'm just glad my family are growing up here in Australia away from all you north-east p@eda-philes. And while you're at it, how bad were your generals in organising Gallipoli - that Churchill chap was a complete twit. No wonder we wouldn't let our troops fight under your leadership after that.































No offense intended, just a bit of banter like.

OverTheTopAussie Posted on 4/6 13:44
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

I unreservedly withdraw my previous comment. It is not an acceptable excuse to post stuff like that, even though there may be some basis of historical fact. In addition it was highly disrespectful of me to come to your (local Boro) messageboard, your "home", and deliberately offend you. Some of you won't have been offended, but I knew for sure that some of you would. Once again, my apologies for any offense.



































Perhaps if I put it in a song and sung it at the football ....

Gains Posted on 4/6 13:45
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Just a bit of banter ey? I predict a ban if you don't edit that fella.

NorfolknGood Posted on 4/6 13:51
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Why should we banned. as aussie said its just banter.

How about, for all those not going to Germany, butthink its OK to sing 10 German bombers we could get all the Germans to sing:

'smoggies at home, allegedly f ing the kids'

No problem there then. Just a bit of banter based on history.

Gains Posted on 4/6 13:53
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

I didn't say you, you prck. And I'm not saying he will be, just people have been for less, that's all.

grantus Posted on 4/6 14:22
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

It wont even get sang in my opinion.

There are always going to be doyles whose voice is inappropriate and insulting to others.

The interesting question this raises is when does it cross the line. At what stage should somebody be escorted from the football match?

"The referee's a w'nker"?.
"You black b'stard" at the ref?.
"Town full of rent boys"? London teams.
"Peter Reid's got a monkey's head"?
"Hit him on the head with a baseball bat, Keegan"?
"10 German bombers"?
Calling Mark Burke Sooty?
"Gay songs at Sol Campbell"?
Jewish comments at Spurs?
Theiving comments at Liverpool?
Inbred comments at Geordies?


Where should the line be drawn? Should chanting and singing be banned altoger? An allowed song list drawn up? I mean, swearing offends some people.

Revol_Tees Posted on 4/6 14:26
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

It's a song for numbskulls. And there ends my contribution to the debate.

TheBoy999 Posted on 4/6 17:20
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

OverTheTopAussie you are right about the British generals in ww1, the 10'000's of British dead on the Somme are testament to that, not sure what Churchill had to do with Gallipolli though. As for the kiddie fiddler stuff, i'd fully expect that sort of thing from Geordies, Mackems, Leeds fans ect. I can accept its just banter, mindless maybe but banter all the same.

The_Commisar Posted on 4/6 18:38
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

good shout Revol_tees

Churchill was the mastermind for Gallipoli.

boro_in_lincoln Posted on 4/6 18:46
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

I presume all of the people arguing against this song have never sang songs about thieving at Liverpool or anything to that nature?

Hypocrites. It's just a song, we sing it at football matches,get over it.

Boro_Steve, if as you say, the German's have got over it, they won't mind us singing it will they?

ive_lost_me_flag Posted on 4/6 19:44
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Its the same people who want family-friendly atmospheres (in other words librarys) and all-seater stadiums that dont like this song. Its called banter!

As grantus said:
All London clubs - "Town full of rent boys!"
Liverpool - "Youll never get a job" Thats taking the mick out an emotional song for them and nobody complains.

BANTER!

Bring back standing areas and brilliant atmospheres!

--- Post edited by ive_lost_me_flag on 4/6 19:47 ---

littlejimmy Posted on 4/6 20:12
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Ah yes, let's bring back standing and intimidating atmospheres, bring back the riots and seat-throwing, bring back monkey chants and banana-throwing, bring back the Krays, bring back public hangings and floggings! Woo-hoo!

ive_lost_me_flag Posted on 4/6 20:13
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

seat throwing?

Where would they get the seats from if its a terrace?

littlejimmy Posted on 4/6 20:16
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Well done on picking that one up. Give yourself a shiny!
Mixed standing/seating - remember that? Er...probably not.

--- Post edited by littlejimmy on 4/6 20:16 ---

neiltrodden Posted on 4/6 20:26
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

ILMF, taking the pss out of other fans is banter. Comparing the german people of today to murdering nazis is NOT the same. You haven't got a fking clue what you are talking about really, have you?

ive_lost_me_flag Posted on 4/6 20:30
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Its called banter, its wot the whole thing is about, its wot happens at footy matches.

neiltrodden Posted on 4/6 20:33
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

If it's just banter, then pop into your local synagogue and start cracking jokes about gas chambers. You seem to forget that a lot of germans were persecuted by the nazis.

Let me know how you get on at the synagogue won't you? Remember, it's just a bit of banter!!!!

jd1973 Posted on 4/6 20:34
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Great. The representatives of the nation and MFC are on the prowl again, proudly stating their devotion and intent to continue singing a song that pokes fun at a situation that left millions of people dead, whilst complaining at the same time about child abuse songs.

I feel so proud to be British and from Teesside when I see posts like this - it brings a tear to my eye.

ive_lost_me_flag Posted on 4/6 20:34
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Hmmm, so thats the same as taking the mick at a footy match?

Get real mate.

neiltrodden Posted on 4/6 20:42
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

"Hmmm, so thats the same as taking the mick at a footy match?"

Of course it's the same. Do laws and rules magically switch off when you walk in a football ground?

If we were playing an Israeli team, would it be acceptable to sing a song about gas chambers - YES or NO????

ive_lost_me_flag Posted on 4/6 20:46
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

NO

Becos the jews were the victims but the Germans were at fault.

jd1973 Posted on 4/6 20:51
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

So every single German involved in the war, and those born since deserve to be insulted because in the words of a 6 year old after a playground fight "he started it".

I despair for the future of this country.

littlejimmy Posted on 4/6 20:52
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

What, all of them? And they still are? You'll be telling me all Muslims are to blame for 9/11 next. And it wouldn't surprise me if you did.

ive_lost_me_flag Posted on 4/6 20:53
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

FFS its BANTER, its wot football fans thrive off, its something to use to take the opposition out of.

TheBoy999 Posted on 4/6 20:53
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Doesn't this boil down to freedom of speech and were the line is drawn. Its funny but, i seem to remember alot of you arguing about civil liberties and the rights of the individual not so long ago.

ive_lost_me_flag Posted on 4/6 20:55
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

100

ive_lost_me_flag Posted on 4/6 20:56
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Why is it such a big deal?

I dont understand what the problem is, its called banter, its not killing anyone, its not hurting anyone so whats wrong with it?

TheBoy999 Posted on 4/6 20:57
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Whats the world coming to when extremist can preach hate and death to the 'infidels' but if a football fans caught singing 'ten German bombers' he's deported, i dispair i really do.

neiltrodden Posted on 4/6 20:58
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

We have never truly had freedom of speech though. Inciting racial hatred is illegal in this country. How about the rights of individual people who are offended by this?

ILMF, so aren't there any jews in germany then?

Your "It's banter ffs" argument is wearing thin.

ive_lost_me_flag Posted on 4/6 20:59
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Thats becos its all it is, its not intended to hurt anyone, im sure theyll give it back altho 99% of English fans wont be able to understand them.

jd1973 Posted on 4/6 21:00
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

So if the Iranian fans start singing "four suicide bombers" if we play them you'll all be falling about laughing will you?

ive_lost_me_flag Posted on 4/6 21:01
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Look nobodys going to agree here and this is going to go on for ages, I think its a bit of fun, you lot hate it, leave it at that.

TheBoy999 Posted on 4/6 21:02
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

"Inciting racial hatred is illegal in this country".

How the hell is it inciting racial hatred?

Is Flower Of Scotland 'Inciting racial hatred'?

neiltrodden Posted on 4/6 21:04
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

I wasn't saying that it was inciting hatred. I was making a statement to back up that you don't actually have a god given right to say what you want and that statement is "inciting racial hatred is illegal".

TheBoy999 Posted on 4/6 21:06
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

So it doesn't cross the line then? Its on a par with Flower Of Scotland?

littlejimmy Posted on 4/6 21:07
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

It's usually the ones who want to say something chauvanistic who cry out about freedom of speech and political correctness.

neiltrodden Posted on 4/6 21:10
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

At no point did I say it was inciting racial hatred. It's offensive , bad taste and fk all like 'banter'.

As jimmy says, people always point out their right to free speech but there isn't one.

TheBoy999 Posted on 4/6 21:16
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

I hear 'freedom of speech' and 'civil liberties' on this board so often when people are defending Islamic extremists i thought i turn it round. It seems alot of English people are anti English and lets face it its not about the chant, its the ordinary working class fans you deplore. The fcking prawn sandwich brigrade are destroying football.

TheBoy999 Posted on 4/6 21:18
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Would you or would you not say it was on a par with Flower Of Scotland???????????????

neiltrodden Posted on 4/6 21:19
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

You are talking utter fking gibberish now.

Show me a link where anyone has ever defended muslim extremists right to freedom of speech.

I just agree that singing songs about the nazis has fook all to do with football and has never been "banter".

neiltrodden Posted on 4/6 21:21
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

TheBoy999, flower of scotland? Well, I don't know the words to it but assume it a nationalist song.

When the scots set up an organisation to systematically murder their own citizens using that song as a theme tune, then it'll be the same.

littlejimmy Posted on 4/6 21:23
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

I'm with Neil. As they say in French, Vouz parlez le merde du cheval, garcon.

MontagueLongfellow Posted on 4/6 21:32
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

I suppose if the World Cup was ever held in Scotland we'd have to change our national anthem.

Lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the Queen.


Just a thought

TheBoy999 Posted on 4/6 21:32
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

"When the scots set up an organisation to systematically murder their own citizens using that song as a theme tune, then it'll be the same"

What the fck are you talking about, since when has 'ten German bombers' been a theme tune to a 'organisation that systematically murder their own citizens'

The Scots are singing about the defeat of an aggressor(nearly 700 years ago), exactly what 'ten German bombers' is about(60 years ago), although in a more moronic way.

I not defending the song, i'd never sing it for fear of someone seeing me sing such a brain dead chant, what i'm saying is, you can't just ban it and deport people for singing it, ffs we can't sanatize the whole world.

number_10 Posted on 4/6 21:59
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

You know one of the best bits of this is that the people defending this song are the ones who were whinging like fck in the Celtic Rangers debate on here the other day, because Celtic fans have the cheek to occasionally sing irish folk rebel songs, and last I checked they don't glorify shooting British soldiers, like this song glorifies murdering Germans.

Pathetic.

There's banter and there's bad taste. How about a few white supremacy songs? The little ditty from the film American History X for example. Are they just banter?

It's no wonder plenty of people are ashamed of the England football team.

ive_lost_me_flag Posted on 4/6 22:02
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

I wasnt even in that debate about Celtic Rangers, its BANTER FFS, but Im not arguing anymore, theres no point.

number_10 Posted on 4/6 22:07
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

No, have you ever seen a geordie win a cup, the referees a wnker and the like are banter, 10 german bombers is xenophobic and an embaressment.

TheBoy999 Posted on 5/6 7:10
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

"like this song glorifies murdering Germans"

I've heard it all now the men of the R.A.F were murderers for shooting down German bombers. They laid down their lives to defend our country and now some jumped up little sh-it like you comes along and states they're murderers. No wonder the elderly of this country despair.

SuperBokSupper Posted on 5/6 7:25
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Im fooking sick of the people on here who just lurk about gasping to jump up on their high horses and shoot someone down. Ok if you dont agree with the song, fair enough, you dont have to sing it, but dont lash out at a sixteen year old lad(ILMF)and imply hes a racist and a member of the B.N.P. just so you can look morally superior.
I reckon just stick to the Great Escape and be done with it.
BTW do all you morally upstanding and conciensious (sp?) citizens get offended by the American national Anthem?
Interesting words in later verses I believe.

Chutney Posted on 5/6 8:16
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Fair point, SuperBok - it's wrong to imply that he's those things.

Let's just agree that he's an imbecile and leave it at that, eh?

TheBoy999 Posted on 5/6 9:14
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

I think this sums up football chants perfectly.

Football chants are repetitive chants generated by the crowd at football (soccer) matches, particularly professional ones. Throughout Europe and Latin America it is considered normal for the supporters to spend much of their time shouting at the players, opposing spectators, the referee, or just the world in general. They are intended to encourage the supporters' team, insult the opposition, or just make a noise.

The chants themselves can vary enormously, from the simple and repetitive to the topical and complex, encompassing tradition and vulgarity. An example of simple, though proud chanting is the Brazilian chant, sung by the fans at World Cup matches: "Eu sou brasileiro, com muito orgulho, com muito amor" (I am Brazilian, with a lot of pride, with a lot of love). They frequently contain vulgar or antagonistic lyrics, in fact a lot of things shouted within football stadiums would not be acceptable in a number of situations outside of one, and as long as the chants are not used outside of football, it is tolerated. Most importantly, it should be said that they generally contribute to people's enjoyment of a game and its atmosphere, and are an integral part of football culture.

"integral part of football culture." Don't forget it!

NorfolknGood Posted on 5/6 9:26
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

So we can at least rest assured that the only time we will hear the 10 german bombers sung is inside the stadiums then.

Well that at least is good news to know that there is no chance of gettig a group of fans ratarsed out of their tiny minds singing it in the streets and inns of Germany.

TheBoy999 Posted on 5/6 9:55
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

"a lot of things shouted within football stadiums would not be acceptable in a number of situations outside of one"

I assume a situation were it would be acceptable would be during a world cup in the town square or streets and inns before and after a match.

Sorry Norfolk you'll have to be insanely offended outside grounds too.

NorfolknGood Posted on 5/6 10:36
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Another fuckwit.

Stay at home and let your father fiddle with you if you dont think it gives offence.

OverTheTopAussie Posted on 5/6 10:57
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

They don't care if it offends people. They just say "You shouldn't be offended" and think thats the end of it. It is important to consider how others see your "banter" as well.

For example if you call me a convict, if you say Australia is a cultural wasteland, if you say we can't play "soccer", if you ask us have we ever won anything in footbal, its banter and I won't be offended.
But, if you start talking about bombings in Bali, or you hope our peacekeeping forces in the Solomons or East Timor or Iraq or wherever get shot, I would get rather angry and would feel like smacking you around the head.

So, your "banter" has to take into account what is reasonable to include and what is unreasonable.

Some possible chants from the Germans that some of the English might not enjoy would include:- "we should have gassed the poms" and those classic hits "there were 10 V2 bombs in the air" and "London's burning".

In fact if I was German & you were singing "German bombers" at me I would give you a verse of "V2 bombs" myself on the basis of like for like. And after the match we could sit back & watch the hoolies have a nice chat about it.

Is it any wonder, with banter like this, that English fans have such a bad reputation in Europe. On a par with American tourists I believe.


--- Post edited by OverTheTopAussie on 5/6 11:02 ---

littlejimmy Posted on 5/6 11:01
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

That's a good point.

Can you imagine the reaction if, say, 2,000 drunk Germans set up camp in Trafalgar Square and started singing about shooting Brits out of the sky and ditties about doodlebugs? Would people accept it as banter?

grantus Posted on 5/6 11:14
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

I dont like the song, but I beleieve it should be tolerated. Same as the awful chants that are levelled at us. I totally dislike and am insulted by them, but believe they should be tolerated.

Its what rival supporters do, always have and adds to the matchday experience for me personally.

Now then, this 10 german bombers song, about 2 countries at war, you lot are saying it should be banned yes?

So should we ban the Great Escape theme or not? It's a reference to the second world war as well isn't it, a reference to Nazi POW Camps, what's worse is we dont just sing this to the Germans but to everyone we play.

I agree that football should not be sanitised, I want terraces behind the goals, I want common sense to prevail.

This one will go on and on. Once 10 German Bombers is banned. There will be those of you demanding anyone who calls the ref a name, or a player a dirty word should be thrown out of the ground too. I'm not one of those people.

I like the passion, the anger, the humour, the rage, the joy to be expressed freely on the terraces. That's just me though.

bandito Posted on 5/6 11:16
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

What does it mean to be English?

Being English is about driving in a German car to an Irish pub for a Dutch
beer. Then grabbing- an Indian curry or a Turkish kebab on the way home, to
sit on Swedish furniture and watch American shows on a Japanese TV when the
most English thing of all is a suspicion of anything foreign.

Oh and only in England can pizza get to your house faster than an ambulance

And only in England do supermarkets make sick people walk all the way to
the back of the shop to get their prescriptions whilst healthy people can
buy cigarettes at the front.

Only in England do people order a double cheeseburger, large fries and a
Diet coke.

Only in England do banks leave both doors open and chain the pens to the
counters.

Only in England do we leave cars worth thousands of pounds on the drive and
lock our junk and cheap lawn mower in the garage.

Only in England do we use answering machines to screen calls and then have
?call waiting? so we don?t miss a call from someone we didn?t want to talk
to in the first place.

Only in England are there disabled parking places in front of a skating rink.

OverTheTopAussie Posted on 5/6 11:23
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Grantus, are you saying that racist comments should be accepted then?

On the Great Escape theme. The phrase and the tune have now passed into common usage around the (English speaking) world and is no longer primarily a reference to the war, but is a reference to escaping an inescapable situation. I remember last year our local rivals (amateur football team), who were trying to avoid relegation, started singing it when they scored at 3-0 down. They yo-yo between divisions regularly and have been known to sing it in previous seasons. There was no reference to the war intended.

TheBoy999 Posted on 5/6 11:23
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

The differance is they were the aggressor, we were the ones standing up to them, we were the one fighting to save the world(Germany aswell) from the nazis.

I really don't understand why you find this so objectionable but Flower Of Scotland is acceptable.

Heres the first verse :-

O Flower of Scotland,
When will we see
Your like again,
That fought and died for,
Your wee bit Hill and Glen,
And stood against him,
Proud Edward's Army,
And sent him homeward,
Tae think again.

Or the Star Spangled Banner which was inspired by a British naval bombarment. I don't see British people up in arms about that, saying "stop reminding us of it, its insult to the British sailors who died".

If the people singing it were suited middle classe i'm sure you wouldn't have a problem with it.

grantus Posted on 5/6 11:33
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

No, I'm not saying that racist comments should be accepted or tolerated.

There is always many shades of grey when it comes to what is acceptable and just because one person is offended does that mean something should not be accepted? What about if 2% of people are offended? 10% of people are offended? 20%? 49%? When can you draw the line.

Some common sense needs to be applied and I dont see this as racist nor unacceptable. There is a danger of going too far in my opinion.

Silly, insulting, foolish, inconsiderate and thoughtless? Yes. Worthy of being banned? No.

--- Post edited by grantus on 5/6 11:33 ---

boro_steve Posted on 5/6 15:02
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

I did say I wouldn't get involved again but I suggest theboy999 reads the rest of the verses, particularly the bit following:

those days are gone now,
and in the past they must remain

ive_lost_me_flag Posted on 5/6 16:42
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Fukin krauts, they only have themselves to blame

MyBoro Posted on 5/6 17:05
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

There's banter and there's bad taste is correct but we all make our own minds up and act accordingly. I belive the song is banter and appropriate for football.

Just because you believe its bad taste number 10 does not mean we all do. However in the same way you have a choice so do thousands of fans who WILL actually travel to support our team.

If all they do is get drunk and sing bad taste songs I really dont see the problem.

TheBoy999 Posted on 5/6 17:34
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

So if Ten German Bombers had 'those days are gone now,
and in the past they must remain' tagged on the end it would be acceptable? Your talking bol-locks and you know you are.

stump_hole_lover Posted on 5/6 18:43
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Think banning the song is already on the way. Lad I know ( posts on here occasionally ) was pulled over by police on way to a home game earlier this season and was threatened with a banning order. When he asked why the repsonse was " cos we have you on film in Stuutgart singing te german bombers, and all your mates"
Sanitisation of football and political correctness had gone too far and is a major reason why some of the older lads are'nt going to games anymore.

boro_steve Posted on 5/6 19:52
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

I'm going to surprise you now, I actually think you should have the right to sing it, but I would hope you wouldn't sing it.

TheBoy999 - the Scots are signing about how they were brave in the past but their differences with England are in the past and that is where they stay. Ten german bombers is nothing like Flower of Scotland.

TheBoy999 Posted on 5/6 20:09
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

That verse you mentioned never gets sang. Ten Bombers is similar in that its a song about past conflict. Why do they sing about it if they're not proud of it and revel in it. If the English had a song similar to that but about Flodden, i'm sure you would say that was unacceptable because its the English. Lets not forget alot of English, Welsh and Scottish died at Bannockburn, so the Scots singing about it(by your logic)is an insult to thier memory.

"the Scots are signing about how they were brave in the past but their differences with England are in the past and that is where they stay"

If you believe that then you are sadly deluded.

boro_steve Posted on 5/6 21:03
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Strange you saying that verse never gets sung, it's been sung everytime I've heard the Scottish national anthem sung and everytime I've been to Murrayfield when they play it officially, that verse has been sung.

Stop trying to BS your way through an argument, if you don't know something don't BS it because there's every chance the other party to the argument does know it and you just end up looking even more stupid than you did before.

TheBoy999 Posted on 5/6 21:24
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

No its not, usually they only sing the first verse, i've never heard them sing the 3rd verse, i'll take your word about the Rugby as i never watch it. Thats not the point anyway the point is they're glorifying past conflict, something your so opposed to the English doing.

Would this be acceptable:-

O Flower of England,
When will we see your like again
That fought and died for
Your wee bit hill and glen.
And stood against him,
Proud Hitlers army,
And sent him homeward
Tae think again.

And maybe stick the 3rd verse in so we can say "the English are singing about how they were brave in the past but their differences with Germany are in the past and that is where they stay"

OK?

boro_steve Posted on 5/6 22:30
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Yeah but in the version you've just constructed you're specifying Hitler and not Germans as the people we were fighting against and you're not describing how our air force blew them up. Flower of Scotland is totally different and if you can't see that then you really do have problems.

I have never heard them sing only the first verse, if they sing it I've only ever heard them sing the full song.

But, you know the rules in advance, if you still travel to Germany and sing this song then you cannot complain if you get arrested. The German people have every right to decide their own laws. There are very strict laws in place in Germany governing Nazi memorabilia etc. and this is for a very good reason, they haven't forgotten, they will never forget but the people there now want to live their lives without English idiots constantly reminding them of the horrors of a war which took place 60 years ago.

In addition when you quoted me before and said so you're saying we should forget you clearly failed to read my whole post as the next part of it discussed how we should always remember the sacrifice etc. but we shouldn't hold it against German people now.

In any case you're clearly either a wind up merchant or a total fool, I don't intend to keep arguing as you clearly can't grasp what I'm telling you.

holgate_rochey Posted on 6/6 0:00
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Stop trying to PC yourself through an argument

Boro_Gadgie Posted on 6/6 0:10
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

OK then where do we draw the line with the following songs/tunes?

10 German Bombers
The Dambusters March
Theme from The Great Escape (which is recognised as an England footy anthem and played by the England band at internationals)

holgate_rochey Posted on 6/6 0:12
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Surely Pigbag represents cruelty to animals.

TheBoy999 Posted on 6/6 7:08
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

"you clearly can't grasp what I'm telling you."

oh i'm sorry, i bow down to your superior knowlegde, you clearly are the oracle.

Do you think the Germans would be happy with my version of F of S?
or would it remind of Hitler to much?

SuperBokSupper Posted on 6/6 8:21
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Ok then, how about 10 Nazi Bombers instead then?
Thus the pilots were actively fighting against our country and trying to kill us as much as we were them, they had specific and morally outrageous opinions and policies which had to be stopped, it doesnt blanket the whole German population either.
If the Germans had won the war do you think they would not have been pounding it into us?
There were a lot less Nazi's in Germany after the war, but only in name, not in real terms.
IMHO this song will offend some people and it is bordering on the darker side but its not personalised at any one in particular. Its going to happen whether anyone likes it or not.

OverTheTopAussie Posted on 6/6 9:37
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Yeah no worries, mate. So you know it will be offensive to some (I'd say many) and your excuse is that it is going to happen anyway. Well it will if YOU sing it. Don't hide behind other people, if you're going to sing it then take your medicine here.







Maybe your opponents can sing "There were 10 English soldiers in Iraq" or something about ships in the Falklands.

--- Post edited by OverTheTopAussie on 6/6 9:39 ---

SuperBokSupper Posted on 6/6 9:44
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

well I wont be there so it doesnt really matter what I think does it mouth?

OverTheTopAussie Posted on 6/6 9:55
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Yes it does. Individuals and their attitudes are what make society what it is. The line between freedom of speech and the rights of those we are addressing is important. Your voice is just as important as the person next to you.

So will we be a society where we feel free to insult anyone we like in any way we like and tough luck to them, or will we be a society that takes others into account in deciding what we sing (Geordies excepted of course). We can choose to limit our freedom of speech for the common good.

SuperBokSupper Posted on 6/6 9:58
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

OK so everyones voice is important, so therefore they should be allowed to speak, yes?
Unless you disagree (changed form agree) with their opinion Aussie?
By the way, where did I was going to sing this song on this thread?

--- Post edited by SuperBokSupper on 6/6 9:59 ---

littlejimmy Posted on 6/6 10:12
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

A question for those who say freedom of speech is absolute:

What did you think of the Muslim banners and placards that were displayed during the demonstrations in London after the Danish cartoons of Mohammed?

ccole Posted on 6/6 10:34
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

I remember radio five in Germany last year just after the draw, getting local reactions to the prospect of the English invasion.

The reporter tried to put a negative slant on every question in the hope of a response like “we are living in fear of the English coming and will move away for a month”

The thing was, all the locals couldn’t wait for the English as “there are just like us, enjoy a beer, a song, and football”. She was gutted.

The highlight was when she played what she thought was her trump card…. “What about the German Bombers song, and the memories of the war?”

“I think you will find that we Germans also have a sense of humour and we will have our songs to sing at the English, in English, all good fun”… she was devastated.

You see, unlike the many doomongers on here and in the media, the impression those Germans interviewed give was that they really didnt care and see it as quite normal football banter.

Also, you will only be arrested for reference to the Nazi’s and not the war. This law was brought in to combat fear of the right wing locals, and not England fans singing about the Luftwaffe.

--- Post edited by ccole on 6/6 10:51 ---

ccole Posted on 6/6 10:38
re: 10 German Bombers - Youre nicked

Jimmy,

I think any semi educated person would could spot the difference in a placard urging people to make war on the west compared to a song about a war that happened 60 years ago.

Which is why if those banners had said “we kicked King Richards arse in the holy war” nobody would have been bothered.

--- Post edited by ccole on 6/6 10:39 ---