permalink for this thread : http://search.catflaporama.com/post/browse/531867180
bandito Posted on 5/6 16:26
Why the panic about Gareth?

Chill out people, light a cigar, pour yourself a glass of red and dream about Champions League football. I cannot believe the amount of antagonism towards the main man. OK, we were promised a top drawer manager, however that to me says we have a lot of gullible fans who believe any old tat that comes out the club. It's called spin. If Gibbo delivers one of these sorts then yippedy doo daa, if he doesnt, it aint the end of the world as we know it. We have the club captain as manager. How feckin good is that? It's worth the risk just for the fairtytale stories one could write if it were to go BOOM. Forget the Mowbray comparisons, they dont mix. We're talking continuity ere and if anyone knows the craic down there then it's Sir Gareth and the two Steve's. Top drawer managers are difficult to find. If they weren't then we'd all have a Mourinho or a Hiddink. Thats the beauty of it all. I love the uncertainty, the anxiety and the hope. Back the captain!

captain5 Posted on 5/6 16:27
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Bandeira PR officially opens for business early August.

bandito Posted on 5/6 16:28
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

I'm driving round the streets of doggy tonight with a megaphone

DybuksChampion Posted on 5/6 16:29
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Couldn't give a carp about the spin from the club. I know what we need. We need experience. Southgate has zip. You want continuity? You get Roy Evans.

You want to progress - you get someone who has done at least one days management in his life.

finny Posted on 5/6 16:30
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

careful - think that is a veiled attack on Gibbo who did promise a top drawer manager. Surely u are not labelling the messiah a 'spin doctor'?

boroboy75 Posted on 5/6 16:30
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Are all attendees of the Ra Ra player of the year doos brain-washed?

bandito Posted on 5/6 16:31
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Roy Evans????!!!!

What the fook does he know about Middlesbrough?

bandito Posted on 5/6 16:32
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Finny: I'm sure he has tried to land a top drawer manager, maybe he still will but whilst there is talk of Southgate managing our team we should at least champion the cause. Mu guess is Gibson is fishing for a reaction from the public. I'd expect a Gazette poll to be set up fairly soon..

Revol_Tees Posted on 5/6 16:34
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Barry could be his assistant and they'd open a dodgy car lot ('Deals on Wheels') next door to the Riverside.

Link: Roy Evans

mf_c Posted on 5/6 16:34
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

If we finish in the same position in the league as this season (or lower), Season tickets will fall below 10,000 for the following season. Reasons ?

Despite all Gibsons spiel about a "top drawer manager", for the 5th time in 6 managers we will have a manager in his 1st job.

Every year for the last few years we have been given titbits of players we "were in for", tried to sign or interested in, conveniently released around this time of season ticket renewals. This time it's the manager - we want top drawer, we get a beginner. People WILL get tired of the spin/propoganda/lies/bullsh it (delete as applicable) and wait before deciding to commit a lot of money to the club.

Don't get me wrong, he will get my support. But from the chairman saying we cannot afford to take a risk with the new manager to appointing (IMO) the riskiest manager we have ever had this could all blow up in his face and the lost fans would take a lot of convincing to come back.

captain5 Posted on 5/6 16:34
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

He doesn't fish like that, Bandy.

He's not sasboro with less money.

Gibson has got a bee in his bonnet on this one with the continuity and as there is no one at the club to advise him on this, that is what will happen.

BossHogg Posted on 5/6 16:36
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

You have blind faith Bandito, blind faith..

All people are doing are expressing their concerns, nowt wrong with that!

Stop playing the MFC martyr...

scoea Posted on 5/6 16:36
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Sorry Bandito, can't go along with it. Not the right appointment for me. No matter what you say about spin or what Gibson believes we NEED a top class experineced manager to take us where we want to go. We're no longer a lower division/yo-yo club. We're not a club fighting relegation. We are a club with a cracking group of players, a fantastic youth set up and a genuine chance of progression - with the right man. It is a massive risk and a massive ask to appoint Southgate.

Mat_Evans Posted on 5/6 16:37
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

I think that sometimes bb75. I think it comes down to this, he wasn't our first or 2nd choice, but one of the only choices we have left and it seems gibbo is keen to make the most of it. I don't think anybody will not back southgate once he's in charge. I just hope he does himself justice and we achieve top 6 like this squad should.

ayresome_82 Posted on 5/6 16:38
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Agree with Scoea

bandito Posted on 5/6 16:38
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

I'll trust him then. He pays himself a small fortune to make key decisions and is a millionaire. I'm not

finny Posted on 5/6 16:39
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Bandy - why should we champion the cause?
I think it is a huge risk and I'm piXXXed off gibbo is prepared to take it.
This continuity lark? - we finished 14th FFS. Thats the kind of continuity I'd like to lose.

Mat_Evans Posted on 5/6 16:41
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Scoea ive seen the maj. of your quotes on here and i agree with all of them regarding the next gaffa, the one above again spot on.

bandito Posted on 5/6 16:42
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

People are forgetting the fact that there are no top drawer managers out there!

These guys command ridiculous fees and it takes more than a week in Crathone Hall to tempt them from the higher echelons of management!!

Why are the folk of Teesside so demanding when it is clear we have no option but to give the gate a go!

Id GIbbo can land Sven, Hiddink, or Van Gaal then I'll fly em over meself but until then, we should accept the reality of the situation and realise that appointing Southgate wouldnt be a disaster.

It's amazing how many people are missing McClaren already

mf_c Posted on 5/6 16:45
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

If we can't do it why say it then Bandito ?

Mat_Evans Posted on 5/6 16:45
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Too right i'm missing McClaren!!!

MrEko Posted on 5/6 16:45
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

One of my main worries about southgate is that, during the fiasco of jan/feb it was reported there was a split in the camp due to McClaren wanting to blood in the youth and the experienced players werent happy. And who were they led by Gareth.


Next season say goodbye to Cattermole, Taylor, Johnson and Bates and welcome back Parlour, Ehigou and maybe even Doriva.

finny Posted on 5/6 16:47
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Lets just list some alternatives: (may not be top drawer but probably would come are proven)
Jewell
Fat Sam
Taylor
Coppell
Deschamps
Mccleish
Curbs
Moyes

None of them light my fire (maybe jewell) but all are proven and preferred to the nonsense we have now.

Big_Shot Posted on 5/6 16:47
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

'One of my main worries about southgate is that, during the fiasco of jan/feb it was reported there was a split in the camp due to McClaren wanting to blood in the youth and the experienced players werent happy. And who were they led by Gareth'

So why was it McClaren you all wanted out then?

--- Post edited by Big_Shot on 5/6 16:49 ---

scoea Posted on 5/6 16:48
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

I'm not having that either Bandito. I am no expert in the top managers in the game but I know enough to realise that there are much better and more qualified people than Southgate who are available.

I agree he knows the set up well and that he might have a big future in management which is why I would have him on the coaching staff but to give him the top job is a massive, massive gamble that we should not be taking.

Our progress in the last 12 years has been massive. Robbo started it because of his name. McClaren was a huge success because of his coaching background and football knowledge. They have laid foundations that need to be taken forward and I, for one, do not think that a 35 year old defender who has been at the club 5 years is good enough, even if he is articulate, honourable and decent and knows the club inside out.

fatharrywhite Posted on 5/6 16:48
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

why is it such a massive risk and gamble? I just dont get what a lot of people are worried about.

It's not as if a massive rebuilding job is needed like it was when McClaren took over. At the very least it is going to be roughly the same side as last season, with possible question marks over Jimmy and Viduka.

Without all that to worry about and also without europe to contend with there isnt a better time for a newcomer like southgate to take over.

Also this rubbish about PR spin etc...if people are gullible enough to believe what the club say then that's their fault (football as a whole rivals politics in the talking bollox dept). I dont buy my season ticket on the basis that we are going to buy X or our manager will be Y and i'd like to think that the vast majority of fans think the same. However judging by some of the comments on this board the word 'fickle' comes to mind in a lot of cases so i may be wrong.

ravsplumber Posted on 5/6 16:50
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Massive risk? It was the whole team that won a Carling Cup and got to the UEFA Cup Final. McClaren put players on the pitch and made some substitutions.

scoea Posted on 5/6 16:53
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

I think it is completely ridiculous to question the loyalty of a fan because they are not happy with the appointment of Southgate fatharry. I sent my renewal forms off in May - it doesn't affect my support for the club whoever the manager is.

At the same time, I can question the decision as to who is the manager.

bandito Posted on 5/6 16:53
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

fatharrry: You're talking perfect sense!

grantus Posted on 5/6 16:53
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

"People are forgetting the fact that there are no top drawer managers out there!"

Interesting how you can state fact on something that you really dont know that much about, isn't it? It's comments like this that undervalue your decent posts on here mate.

Prove that there are no top drawer managers out there. There are loads of top drawer managers out there and you dont even know who we have approached. Isn't that the truth?

--- Post edited by grantus on 5/6 16:58 ---

MrEko Posted on 5/6 16:54
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

McClaren was still a nobend, his youth policy was his only reedeming feature.

grantus Posted on 5/6 16:57
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

and to say that its perfectly reasonable and acceptable for the club to "Spin" lies in order to get money or harbour goodwill and profile is ludicrous.

This is our football team. OUR football team. It's ok for the club to lie to it's supporters?

I really have heard it all now. That is the most unbelievable, outrageous and above all stupid thing I've ever read on here.

BigBadSteve Posted on 5/6 17:05
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

fatharrywhite

At last, the voice of sanity. I thought for a moment the inmates had taken over the asylum.

grantus

" There are loads of top drawer managers out there and you dont even know who we have approached."

This from a man who'd never heard of Houllier prior to him joining Liverpool! You don't know who we've approached either or who is and isn't available.

bandito Posted on 5/6 17:08
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Grantus. I am sure GIbson has scoured Europe for a top draw manager cos that was his intial intention but now the situation has changed. Maybe he should ring you to act as his employment officer and we'd have Van Gaal here by next Monday. You know no more or less than me. We're all guessing.

finny Posted on 5/6 17:09
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

fat harry
Its a risk cos he aint managed a footy team before FFS! Can't u see that.
And to say it is OK for our chairman to lie/spin us is a bleedin disgrace.
It'll be the same chairman (and fans) complaining, about lack of loyalty, if season ticket sales drop.

scoea Posted on 5/6 17:10
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

So let me get this straight. It is OK for the club to promise a top drawer manager and then not appoint one and it is Ok that we appoint someone who is not qualified to be a manager, who has never been a coach let alone a manager and who is still a much needed player.

For a club whose aims are for top 6 finishes and trophies that is ridiculous.

boroboy75 Posted on 5/6 17:11
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Totally agree scoea.

Never thought i'd ever say that.

BigBadSteve Posted on 5/6 17:14
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Scoea

Actually yes, if it's ok with Gibson it's ok with me. We know for sure that Boro have approached TV and MON without success. If they hadn't tried that would be a different kettle of fish.

MrEko Posted on 5/6 17:16
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

What makes it worse is apparantly Crystal Palace have lined up a big name foreign manager.

grantus Posted on 5/6 17:18
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

"Grantus. I am sure GIbson has scoured Europe for a top draw manager cos that was his intial intention but now the situation has changed."

How are you sure Bandito? I thought that the intention was to get someone who had an understanding of the English game as much as it was someone "Top drawer". We seem to have sacrificed "top drawer" and even the term "manager" for this. I personally would be very suprised if Gibson has looked overseas fro the next manager.

Look BigBadSteve, when was Houllier appointed? You try following European football from Australia, before you were online. Not easy.

Even still, now that we all know everything about everything, without looking can you tell me who is the current manager of Marseille?

But that's my point though, I dont know who we've approached, it's all these rubbish statements of fact and surity that I've been on about.

Big_Shot Posted on 5/6 17:19
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

They tried to appoint 2 'top drawer' managers who didn't want it. As for not being qualified, who really cares about that. A few years back we were all laughing about managers now needing some pointless qualifications now people are suddenly all for them and not happy because our potential next manager doesn't have them.

--- Post edited by Big_Shot on 5/6 17:20 ---

Cobain_94 Posted on 5/6 17:21
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

I agree with scoea, Gareth will get my full support if he is appointed but in my view it will be the wrong appointment.

MrEko Posted on 5/6 17:24
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Another comment made from the club was that there were lots of applications for the job compared to a small amount before.

How come we have approached 3 managers and they have turned us down. No doubt the club have lied to us again.

grantus Posted on 5/6 17:25
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

A few years back, who was laughing Big_Shot? I wasn't, I think it makes perfect sense that they should be qualified. I think they should also hold some sort of managerial qualification too in fact. Hopefully, the old days of jobs for the boys are finally coming to an end and about bloody time too.

grantus Posted on 5/6 17:26
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

How do you know we have approached 3 managers and they have turned us down?

bandito Posted on 5/6 17:27
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Can we all agree that Gareth knows the club better than Alan Curbishley, Ian Dowie, Gerard Houllier, Sam Allardyce, etc etc etc? Gibson has stressed thats the route he wants to go down. He wanted venbles to work with Southgate from day one. Quite why he approached O Neil I'll never know but its obvious that O Neil has knocked us back cos Gibbo has tried to involved the current coaching set up. GIbbo has stuck to his guns, like it or lump it and the key reason behind his appointment will be continuity and having a knowledge of the club. Thats why he approached Venables. He has his trust and he knows he can work with Gareth. Southgate has probably figured in his plans for longer than people think. The top drawer manager quote was obviously referring to his first 2 targets who have both knocked us back, so now Gibson will be placing a lot of responsibility on one mans shoulder, whether he has experience or not. It's a massive risk, but look at the positives. There are many and a lot of these positives are overshadowing the search for another alternative

Big_Shot Posted on 5/6 17:30
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Football managers have done okay throughout the years without these qualifications so I find it funny that someone is using someones lack of one as a reason for not wanting him to get a job. Even more so than when we know there are ways around not having one.

--- Post edited by Big_Shot on 5/6 17:31 ---

MrEko Posted on 5/6 17:31
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Bandito under your excuse then Cooper, Schwarzer, Ehigou and probably even Downing have the same qualifcations to be Boro manager.

All of them have been at the club longer that Southgate and all have the same level of managerial experience and qualifcations than Southgate.

Towell Posted on 5/6 17:32
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Maybe it's just a cost-cutting exercise.
Pay Gareth next-to-nowt.
Spend the money on signings instead,

grantus Posted on 5/6 17:33
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Bandito, although another statement of guesswork, not fact, I'll give you this...

At last good post on the subject. Well done.

I'll go along with those sentiments.

grantus Posted on 5/6 17:35
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Big_Shot, maybe that's exactly why there are so few successful English managers in the World. You think?

bandito Posted on 5/6 17:37
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

People seem to forget when doing comparisons that Southgate has captained his country and played 57 times. He's played in crucial games in tournaments aswell. We all know he's a bright bloke. He's very switched on and management will be hard for him but not to difficult. I think people are being a little too negative and maybe I'm being a bit over keen. I think the truth lies somwhere inbetween but he's certainly the best option we have at the moment unless Gibson can pull a rabbit out of the hat.

Big_Shot Posted on 5/6 17:38
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

No thats because all the top jobs in this country go to foreign managers. There's only so many clubs that are successful. Its got nothing to do with some new qualification. There hasn't been any successful English managers for quite a few years. Well before these qualifications were introduced.

--- Post edited by Big_Shot on 5/6 17:40 ---

ravsplumber Posted on 5/6 17:42
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Regardless of who officially becomes manager now, Southgate is Gibbo's designate manager for the longer term, so get used to it folks and get behind him.

--- Post edited by ravsplumber on 5/6 17:49 ---

Nedkat Posted on 5/6 17:42
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Who ever Gibbo eventually chooses, I'll be right behind that decision 100%. The only thing that sticks in my craw, is the constant "Mowbray's not experienced enough" Bollox I've seen on here, and from the very same people, they're now sending the Southgate flag up the pole !! How the fook is Mowbray inexperienced, and Southgate's suddenly everyone's favourite uncle ?

Jeesh !!!

Towell Posted on 5/6 17:43
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

His nose is too big though

bandito Posted on 5/6 17:46
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Mowbray is far more experienced than Gareth Southgate but Southgate fits the criteria for continuity. Ask Gibson, he'll tell ya.

MrEko Posted on 5/6 17:47
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

WHo wants contiuity, we wer shyte last season a lot more than we were good.

20_Briggsy Posted on 5/6 17:50
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

I'm sure your mate will have something controversial to say bandy/

bandito Posted on 5/6 17:53
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

the chairman wants continuity and he seems to know what he's doing. Thats why he's driving round in an Aston martin and were pishing aboot on ere!

BigBadSteve Posted on 5/6 18:07
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Grantus

Did you pick Marseille at random or was it deliberate? They are as I'm sure you know in the same boat as us.

I didn't know you were trying to follow the football news from Aus, that must indeed be difficult without Internet access.

Table_Football Posted on 5/6 18:37
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

The thing that worries me about Gareth, is will he be ruthless enough with players that are not performing.

He seems a nice guy, and I don't think he has it in him to be. I'd like to be proved wrong though.

fatharrywhite Posted on 5/6 18:45
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

1 - where did i say it wasnt a risk? i said i couldnt understand why people are so worried and there wasnt a better time for him to take over. he hasnt managed before but neither had McClaren, coleman or boothroyd to name 3 and they've done alright so far. there's a certain amount of risk no matter who would have taken over - eg o'neill coming in with his own staff.

2 - where did i say it was OK for the chairman to lie? I said that football rivals politics for lying and it does. It always has it and it always will. I take anything any manager/player/chairman says with a pinch of salt and that is at all clubs not just the boro. Gibson is the best chairman in the country but even he has said in interviews that what he says in public about targets for the season and what he says in private are two totally different things and i accept that.

manboobs69 Posted on 5/6 19:38
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Going for oneill and venables was a big cover up or MFC truely didnt have a plan c and thought they would persuade one of them 2 into taking the job. I'd like to see cooper get the job if its down to someone on the playing staff getting the job

scoea Posted on 5/6 20:07
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

If Gareth gets the job I'll be 100% behind him. However, I don't think he is right and I don't think we will get to where we want to be with him in charge. His first season will be spent learning the ropes and we can't afford a season without progress.

If Gibson wants continuity then fine, no problem - but why Southgate and not Round?

dooderooni Posted on 5/6 20:14
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Can I ask at what point we became a massive club and began to demand top quality managers and constant top 6 finishes?

Do people forget where we have come from or is the 'small town in europe' moniker just something fashionable to say to rival fans?

We are not, and never will be, one of the big guns and to behave like we are is just plain silly.

We are like Bolton, a little provincial club that is striving to mix it with the big boys and like a lot of clubs we'll need to sometimes take a bit of a leap of faith in making signings and appointments.

We went for Juninho when many other clubs would have considered his diminutive size as being a factor that would have a detrimental effect on his ability in the Premier League. We took a risk on him coping with the demands of our league and look how it paid off.

If Gibbo chooses to appoint Southgate then the fans have 2 options, they either disagree with it strongly enough that they don't go or they get behind the team and continue their support.

Of course we'd all love to see us punch above our weight and bring in a manager of international repute but if Southgate gets the job and we are here this time next year planning for the Premier League again then he'll have been a success. It's not as if he's going to be flying solo is it? He'll have the very same backroom staff as McLaren did and it's a matter of opinion on wether that is a good or bad thing. He may infact have an even better squad to play with, particularly as many of our youth players will have had the invaluable experience of last season under their belts.

Every manager has had to start somewhere so surely it's better for a manager to get his first job at a place where he's given a decent chance in that he's got a lot of very good resources to play with.

If it all goes tits up then we can um and arh about what might have been but appointing another manager other than Southgate has an equal risk of that happening anyway.

For all we know, Southgate could be a brilliant manager but until he gets his chance then we can only guess.

I'd personally rather have Gareth and the continuity he represents than Martin O'Neill anyday, regardless of their relative experience.

We've built this club up over the last few years and for us old stagers who've seen regimes come and go and teams get systematically dismantled by hawking our best players off then this is a welcome change.

They say Rome wasn't built in a day and I for one am happy that the club are trying to keep some continuity in the game when others hire and fire on a whim.

--- Post edited by dooderooni on 5/6 20:17 ---

manboobs69 Posted on 5/6 20:17
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Why not cooper?How does anyone know if southgate will make a good manager?Unless he has been managing boro for some of last season

20_Briggsy Posted on 5/6 20:25
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Top post dooderooni.

Gillandi Posted on 5/6 20:26
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Well said Doods.


Boobs - I get the feeling with you that you would object to whoever got the job and would be even more up in arms if Cooper had got the nod.

But yes, you are right, we have no idea how either of them would fair as a manager. My feeling is that it's Southgate's playing pedigree that has tipped the job his way if it was ever a choice between the two, which I'm sure it never was.

Thats the natural order of things...great players get top jobs quicker (perhaps unfairly) and lesser ones have to do it the hard way.

Southgates been obvious management material for 10 years now for his ability and his obvious leadership qualities.

We can't really say that about Cooper can we? Fantastic bloke that he is. I'm delighted he's being included in the coaching set up and I expect he will be more than happy with a coaching role himself.

--- Post edited by Gillandi on 5/6 20:29 ---

manboobs69 Posted on 5/6 20:27
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

good players rarely make good managers. Name some good current managers who we class players

20_Briggsy Posted on 5/6 20:28
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

I think your right Gillandi.

Gillandi Posted on 5/6 20:30
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Manboobs - Mark Hughes.

Big_Shot Posted on 5/6 20:32
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

I think the current Barcelona manager was a decent player.

scoea Posted on 5/6 20:39
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Doodeooni - I have supported this club and been a season ticket holder for twenty years so I know what we are and where we came from. No-one is saying that we have a right to top 6 finishes and trophies. What we are saying is that we have to have the ambition to do that.

My support of the club will never change no matter hwo is in charge or what division we're in, that isn't the issue here.

In the last 12 years we have made massive progress and the platform is there for top 6 and trophies. Even the chairman and chief executive are stating these as ambitions. I know that is what Gibson wants so it is nonsense to limit those ambitions with this "we're only a small club" carry on.

We have proven that we can attract some of the best players to our club and I can't agree with the notion that because we're a small provincial club we can't get in a top manager. I cannot accept that a club with those ambitions will fulfil them with someone who has never managed a club, never done any coaching whatsoever and who does not have the qualifications to meet the criteria for the job.

We have a great playing squad, highly rated coaching staff, top facilities, good fan base,excellent youth development and the best chairman in the league. We are an attractive proposition and on that basis we should not be making do with Southgate.

I wonder what the reaction would be if we were to appoint Tony Adams who has more qualifications and experience than Southgate. There would be uproar. If the only reason we're appointing Southgate is because of his knowledge of the club then we are in serious trouble.

20_Briggsy Posted on 5/6 20:41
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

People just like to be opposed to everything. A healthy discussion is fine, but people constantly against any decision made is so boring.

Cobain_94 Posted on 5/6 20:44
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Well said dooderooni, lets never aim for a top 6 finish and settle for mid table every year for the rest of eternity and that's what we'll get.

Big_Shot Posted on 5/6 20:44
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Scoea, you're going on about these qualifications again, they are of no real importance as to whether anyone is capable of doing a job or not.

scoea Posted on 5/6 20:45
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

I disagree wholeheartedly Big Shot - and if mentioning them twice within a thread is going on then I'm sorry!!

--- Post edited by scoea on 5/6 20:45 ---

20_Briggsy Posted on 5/6 20:47
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

I cant think of any reason why Southgate cant do a good job. I cant think of a jobless manager I'd rather have over Southgate. If Gibson decides Soutgate can do the job then thats more than fine for me. Afterall he's worked with the guy for 5 years.



--- Post edited by 20_Briggsy on 5/6 20:49 ---

Big_Shot Posted on 5/6 20:47
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Why? They have never mattered throughout the history of football up until the last few years and now you think having them is important. You can even easily find ways around them. Yet you are now speaking of them as some big deal.



--- Post edited by Big_Shot on 5/6 20:48 ---

scoea Posted on 5/6 20:49
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

No I'm not. Read my posts, they are one part of a much bigger argument.

Gillandi Posted on 5/6 20:51
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

I agree with Big Shot about these badges. Who here think's Southgate is not going to have enough nous about him to get them at the first sit?

Southgates had far less opportunity to get these badges in the last 3 years than Glenn Roeder.

Has Venables got them by the way?

Did Sir Alf Ramsey or Sir Bruce Rioch?


It's just a bit of paper..


We've gone for Gareth coz it seems greatness was thrust upon him sometime around 5pm after the Villa home match debacle.

Big_Shot Posted on 5/6 20:52
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Do you need these qualifications to manager around the world?

Its just you have used them twice now as one of your reasons for being against Southgate becoming manager. Thats my issue as I feel they are of no importance as to whether someone could manage or not. History is littered with great managers who never took these badges yet because someone had a bright idea to introduce them recently people use to as a reason to be against someone. Its absolute nonsense.

--- Post edited by Big_Shot on 5/6 20:54 ---

BigBadSteve Posted on 5/6 20:53
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

This UEFA Pro Licence, did Shankly have one or Clough or Paisley or for that matter Alex Ferguson? No of course not, it's a piece of paper it doesn't make you a good manager.

scoea Posted on 5/6 20:55
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Hang on a minute, everyone is always referring to the massive changes in the game in recent years so what went before is irrelevant. I actually think it is important to ensure that people are capable of doing a job by them having the qualifications necessary. I am not doubting that Gareth is capable of getting the badges just making the point that he is currently without any experience and without any qualifications. That is important in my eyes.

Equally, the likes of Allardyce (i.e. the more forward thinking coaches) have said that the badges are important and necessary..

BigBadSteve Posted on 5/6 20:58
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Allardyce would say that, he runs some of the courses and no doubt gets paid for so doing.

20_Briggsy Posted on 5/6 20:59
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

So let me get this right, you'd rather have Allardyce over Southgate as Boro boss right now?

Big_Shot Posted on 5/6 20:59
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

I actually think just having some experience is also overrated. The leagues are full of managers with bags of experience of not really achieving anything. Look down the betting list of potential Boro managers, years of experience between them and barely a pot won.

--- Post edited by Big_Shot on 5/6 21:00 ---

roarythelion Posted on 5/6 21:00
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

what if it goes tits up?

certain people on here where foaming at the mouth at the prospect of having a lowly SPL manager take over the boro hot seat, asking how finishing second top of the also rans in a virtual pub league qualified anyone for the high office of boro manager. panic over though we've seemingly got another lad who has never managed a club before in his life so we should be alright. next level my arse

Gillandi Posted on 5/6 21:01
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

I don't doubt that the badges are important, to improve the overall quality of English coaching in the long run but the lack of them shouldn't hinder Southgate's short term claim to the Boro job. I'm sure the FA will be very happy to give him a years grace to keep him in the game. Especially knowing how adept we've been lately at bringing through players and managers for the national side.

Big_Shot Posted on 5/6 21:03
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

The FA might be actually keen to get some of our highly respected ex internationals into management as none of them seem interested anymore. No wonder we struggle to find an English England manager. Holland and Germany have their ex players managing them, our's aren't interested.

--- Post edited by Big_Shot on 5/6 21:04 ---

BigBadSteve Posted on 5/6 21:03
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Your arse is on the next level? Must make it difficult to go for a shyte! I see it makes it easy for you to talk out of it though

scoea Posted on 5/6 21:05
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

For the record I don't want Mowbray either. I would also repeat that I will back Southgate if appointed. However, is this not a messageboard for debate? Am I not allowed to question the appointment?

It isn't that he doesn't have the badges. It isn't really that he doesn't have the experience. It's the gamble that I don't like. Here we are on the brink of an important season witht he club in as good a position as it has been for as long as I can remember. We have the chairman talking about top 6 finishes and trophies, we've just been in the UEFA Cup Final and we, as a club, now want to get to the next stage i.e. the top 6-8 regularly and we're going to trust Gareth Southgate to do that when none of us has a clue as to how he will fare?

Not good enough for me.

Big_Shot Posted on 5/6 21:07
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

But thats the case with any new manager, they are all a gamble. There's no guarantee that the next guy despite having some experience will be up to the job.

scoea Posted on 5/6 21:09
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Of course but some risks are bigger than others.

Briggsy - yes I would have Allardyce over Southgate at the moment.

20_Briggsy Posted on 5/6 21:13
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

I go with Southgate.

Jack_Bauer24 Posted on 5/6 21:14
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

People need to remember that they support the CLUB not the MANAGER. If Steve Gibson decided to give Mick McCarthy the job then it shouldn't mean we're all up in arms "im not renewing blah blah blah"(was going to say Howard Wilkinson but that would be taking it to the extreme).The people who say they are not renewing because of the manager are looking for a reason to quit and thats the easy reason isn't it? Yeh we'd all love Arsene Wenger or Rafa Benitez to take over wouldn't we but it wont happen so why don't we just accept WHOEVER Gibson decides should have the job. It's unbelievable the amount of people who didn't want Venables or O'Neill, who are we to turn our noses up? It's Gibbo's choice and how anyone can question him is beyond belief. FFS I'm moving into my 12th year of having a season ticket next year and im still only 18 and to think some people(older people than me, who have seen a lot worse than me) think we should have better? We've never had it better!!

Big_Shot Posted on 5/6 21:16
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Yes and I don't think that Southgate is a bigger risk than most of them. As you know I was a fan of McClaren and felt he was taking this club in the right direction so am happy for his backroom staff to stay and play their part in trying to finish the job he was doing.

If a proposed manager doesn't want to come on our terms as he feels he wants to start over again then I'd rather we at least give McClarens staff and captain a chance to finish building the current team. I don't think we are that far away from having a good balanced squad of experienced first team members and exciting young players. The people already here will know that.

--- Post edited by Big_Shot on 5/6 21:17 ---

joseph99 Posted on 5/6 21:21
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

My view is that some fans are overplaying the importance of a manager. Tactics do not mean a great deal if you do not have 11 motivated players. The main question to ask is whether Southgate can motivate, I think he can but we'll have to wait and see. I do feel that with some quality kids coming through motivation should not be a problem. The only caveat I have with Southgate is whether he is too familiar with the more senior pros and whether he will be able to make that transition between player to manager. I think he can, but I, like most of us, don't know the real man.

Revol_Tees Posted on 5/6 21:26
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

100

GillZean Posted on 5/6 21:27
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Good knock, bandi.

Think I'm choking on 92.

dooderooni Posted on 5/6 22:26
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

As it happens I'd love top 6 every year but I'm not demanding it and that's the whole point, some people have over-inflated ambitions that are simply not consistantly attainable for a club like us and any failure to achieve those ambitions is met with malice and derision by some. It's only now that people are starting to admit that McLaren was actually a very good manager yet during his reign he was pilloried for being ginger, his teeth and his interview techniques rather than what he had achieved.

We are a small club, the attendance of our supposedly loyal fans at the cup games this year is testament to that. Even proper big clubs like Everton, Spurs and the Geordies who have a rich history have struggled to achieve what we have over the past few years but they will always be considered as more plum jobs than ours. Over the past five years we've won a trophy and had two very good runs in europe and improved the squad no end. In the context of the modern game that to me is immense progress and also reflects the amount of over-achievement that gibbos vision has allowed.

Yes we may have fantastic facilities and the best youth policy in the country but we are still Middlesbrough and all that goes with it, and we'll remain less attractive to prospective managers than other clubs.

We seem to be trying to buck the trend and doing things our way and on our terms and as long as Gibbo is at the helm then we'll have to accept that his wisdom is the way that this club will be run.

If it all goes sour then who do you think will share the disappointment of the fans? It will be Gibbo himself because he's not like the Ellis's, Jordans or the Ridsdales of this world is he? He's as much a fan as a chairman and if he want's to go down this route then I say we respect his decision and see what happens.

We are not too far off being a really good side anyway, as most will admit, so promoting from within surely has less likelyhood of upsetting the status quo than asking a new man to come in and begin again is it?

All I'm saying is that you can forget coaching badges etc because they guarantee nothing but what has proven beneficial is maintaining stabilty. If you need proof of that look at where Man Utd and Arsenal are having stuck by the same managers for an extended period and compare their positions and set-ups to those of Villa etc who seem to think that changing managers willy nilly is the key to success.

We've lost out boss to the top job in English football so we are not going to be able to do what Arsenal and Man Utd have done but we are trying to maintain some stabilty and that seems prudent to me.

scoea Posted on 5/6 22:37
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

I hope you're right, I really do. My reservatons will remain though, for me there are much better and less risky options.

As for tactics not being important - of course they are. Motivation is a big part but even very small tactical changes can make all the difference for the level we want to be at.

roarythelion Posted on 5/6 22:47
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Oooooh bigbadsteve

all thats bad about you is your crack and your breath, smiley thing.

grantus Posted on 6/6 7:50
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Are Az Alkmaar a larger club than ours? They've got a World class manager, haven't they? Otmar Hitzfeld is out of work, as will Sven be after the world cup.

Yes Gareth has some very fine qualities, don't get me wrong. A manager to get us to Euro qualification consistently, he may well prove to be. The right man for the job, the right profile, the sending the right message, the next level? He certainly isn't. Not yet anyway.

Dood, this "small town" punching above our weight, we've never had it so good, we expect too much, we should be happy, mentality is the exact mentality that has held Teesside back for god knows how many years. Well, I refuse to settle for second best for my club and my town. I find that attitude defeatist and pathetic. We should be demanding the best for the Boro, the infrastructure is there to deliver it.

The UEFA Pro licence is a qualification that has been running for a number of years now. It has grown, developed and evolved - to the point where it is considered a mandatory qualification for a Premier League management position. It is the number one coaching qualification in the world. Yet some of you reckon its worthless, HA! We are ranked in the top 40 clubs in the World and you dont think our manager should have this qualification, in fact lets give the job to a complete novice.

I'd rather have Sam Alardyce too.

Big_Shot Posted on 6/6 8:21
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

'It has grown, developed and evolved - to the point where it is considered a mandatory qualification for a Premier League management position'

Its a coaching course, thats all. Never used to matter, so why would should it. If it was such a big deal there wouldn't be easy ways around it.

As for yer man at Alkmaar. He is in charge of fairly small club in his home country who are now realistic title contenders. Why would he leave those to come and manage over here at a club who aren't.

grantus Posted on 6/6 8:31
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Im using him as an example of a World class manager managing a club that isn't huge, doesn't have an international reputation, doesn't get as big crowds as us, doesn't have the profile we do.

Im using it to dispute the mentality that we are too small too "Boro" to attract World class managers to our club.

As it proves, I was right and there has been a lot of interest from people of such profile, including World Cup winners, but as I said earlier, the profile and experience has been sacrificed for the Englishness and for the understanding of the current structure of the club.

Fair enough, now we know.

As for "Never used to matter, so why would should it. If it was such a big deal there wouldn't be easy ways around it."

For one, it matters because times change, coaching and football management has progressed, its developed, it includes sports science and is not the same as it was 20 years ago, 15 years ago, 10 years ago, even 5 years ago. A head coach/manager should be fully versed in all teh relevent principles of sports science, of coaching techniques, he should understand as much as possible. You need to get with the times if you think its irrelevent.

There are still ways around it because English football for one is still insular, they still watch each others backs. I expect these easy ways around it to become harder and for loopholes to be closed as time goes on. I hope you're not using Glenn Roeder as an example of an easy way around it. I wouldn't call a brain tumor easy, would you?

The coaching licences are here to stay. Its called progress.

--- Post edited by grantus on 6/6 8:34 ---

10hickton Posted on 6/6 8:32
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

yes we all want the club to progress, just as we have done since 94-95, we appoint two untried managers and hey presto we have cup finals galore, internationals played at the riverside, never out of the papers, now lets all give gareth southgate all the support he needs and more, you never know this just might be the start of an era never seen at boro.

Big_Shot Posted on 6/6 8:35
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

'I hope you're not using Glenn Roeder as an example of an easy way around it. I wouldn't call a brain tumor easy, would you?'

You really do post some nonsense at times. Can't be pestered.

smigga Posted on 6/6 8:36
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Call it Blind faith I call it belief! If Gibbo has it in Southgate - he clearly does to go through a loa dof aggro to get him in the job - then so do I !
Im with Hickton on this one! Let's get behind the lad and who knows what will happen?

grantus Posted on 6/6 8:40
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

How is that nonesense? I'm asking you for examples of these easy ways around it. Ok, if you're talking about the Coleman situation, fair enough, the same thing we are looking to do.

I suppose the point there is that the management team holds the Pro licence, which is better than nothing. It still means that the club needs one. So although its a way around it. The requirements are still met.

Do you get my other points there, or are they just nonsense too?

Big_Shot Posted on 6/6 8:48
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Its nonsense in that you are trying to be a smartarse when we are trying to have a discussion. I never really feel the need to do that when I'm trying to get my point across. We all know there are 2 easy ways to get around it, so what has someones health problems got to do with it.

bandito Posted on 6/6 8:54
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Currently on the last chapter of his book. If you read it carefully it tells you a helluva lot about his credentials for management.

DybuksChampion Posted on 6/6 9:07
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

When most of you lot were crying for McClaren to get the chop I fully backed him. I backed the new contract. I'm not the sort of person who goes against the club usually.

But I think they've got thas one wrong.

Some of the arguments put forward for Southgate:

1) He knows the club.
OK but as has been pointed out Schwartzer, Ugo and Coops know the club better.
2) He's smarter than the average footballer.
Well thank fuuck for that. But if all you need is to be is articulate and not too dim I'll have the 2 million a year contract thank you.
3) He's a well known player.
Hardly a top drawer player. OK he has captained England in the past but he was rarely first choice. Not top drawer in my book.
4) He's Gibbo's choice so that's good enough for me.
Probably the most persuasive argument. But the great man has made mistakes in the past. Usually due to loyalty. What about Robbo's last game. He would still have been here the next season signing old buddys and Andy Townsend would still be strolling round the park beer gut and all.

grantus Posted on 6/6 9:08
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Ok Big_Shot, I wasn't trying to be a smartarse. It was just that Roeder was the last high profile management appointment without a UEFA Pro licence.

What's the other way around it then?

Don't get touchy over nothing lad.

scoea Posted on 6/6 9:08
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Listen, I think everyone agrees and accepts that Gareth is perfect management material - respected, a leader, articulate, committed and forthright. However, all I am saying is that he is not what we need at the moment. We have been a testing ground for novice managers before but we are in a different position now. We need to move forwards - this is a critical time that should not be put at risk by this appointment.

If he does get the job he will get 100% backing from all of us I'm sure but that does not mean that we have to agree that he is the right choice.

A few other points:

1. It is wrong to suggest that there are no top class managers available - there are.

2. It is wrong to suggest that we should not go after those managers because we are a small club - I agree with grantus that that attitude gets you nowhere.

3. The coaching badges are designed to have a standard by which coaches can be measured and therefore the hope is that it improves the quality of coaching in the future so that we don't have to have the likes of Mourinho, Wenger and Benitez at the top clubs. The rest of Europe have had these requirements for a lot longer and it is no coincidence that they are producing these really top managers.

4. Just because the likes of Alf Ramsey and Bill Shankly didn't need those badges does not mean that the game has not changed so that they should now be a requirement.

bandito Posted on 6/6 10:01
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

scoea, there are far more qualified managers out there and this is another risk but it's the option GIbson thinks best and I happen to think so aswell. What do you want him to do. Risk disrupting what we have just to appoint an average manager?

scoea Posted on 6/6 10:04
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Not at all Bandy, I wanted more than an average manager and I do think that they are available. However, I am being slowly persuaded on Southgate having read a few people's thoughts on here and read what Gibson has had to say about it.

bandito Posted on 6/6 10:07
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

so your opinion is based on what others think. I thought you were dead set against the idea. Could you also highlight a few managers who are guaranteed successes who are available and are within grasp and also financially acceptable.

BigBadSteve Posted on 6/6 10:12
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

scoea

"Not good enough for me"

"However, I am being slowly persuaded on Southgate"

That's what I like to see, someone who knows his own mind and sticks to his guns.

grantus Posted on 6/6 10:17
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

The comments from Steve Gibson released this moring, sheds more light on the situation. Agreeing with a decision without the facts is a foolish thing to do.

Dont start with the "I told you so" it make's you look foolish. A man is entitled to question, to debate and to make decisions, isn't he?

Or should a man decide upon one course of action and never deviate, never change course, regardless of changing circumstances, more information learned?

Big_Shot Posted on 6/6 10:18
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Hang on, Gibsons thought aren't that much different to what the likes of me and bandi have been saying, only he obviously has put it better.

bandito Posted on 6/6 10:21
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Grantus: Have a bit of empathy and put yourself in GIbsons position. I've said what I think he'll do and he is thinking on similar lines. You however, completley diss my case for and as soon as Gibbo comes out and says exactly the same thing you change your tune. Unbelievable. I've caught you out too many times to take you seriously anymore.

boroboy75 Posted on 6/6 10:22
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Yes Big shot, with you and bandito never being wrong with your opinions, maybe he's read this board and you've had an influence on him.
It's funny how peoples original ideas are cast aside to tow the clubs line.

Big_Shot Posted on 6/6 10:24
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Not at all, just I've been arguing similar reasons as to what Gibson has said and people were dead against it.

bandito Posted on 6/6 10:25
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

lets hear your opinions on football for once Boroboy. Were all bored of Richard Arnold and Coronation Street.

grantus Posted on 6/6 10:26
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Bandito, that's fine, dont take me seriously, doesn't matter a jot. But I think you'll find that you haven't caught me out at all, as there's nothing to catch me out on. I just spend time on here talking football and opinion, not playing some childish game of trying to pull the wool over peoples eyes or trying to catch them out.

My problem was you were coming on here stating your opinion as fact left right and centre. It wasn't fact, it was your opinion, an educated guess. Yes it has turned out that way. We all knew that it may well do.

I for one refused to base my opinion on something I didn't know for sure. Now that Gibson has spoken, it verifies things. His voice is more imprtant than yours, not because he's eloquent, but because he's the Chairman of MFC. Its from teh horses mouth bandito.

BeerforDolphins also puts forward a very good argument, taken in light of Gibson's comments today.

scoea Posted on 6/6 10:27
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

I have not come across so many people so far up their own backsides. The point of discussion is to voice opinions and perhaps listen to alternative views and make your own mind up. Southgate still wouldn't be my choice but I am much more positive about it than I was yesterday because of what Gibson has said and some posts and views on here.

Certain of you criticising someone for being able to question their own views in the light of convincing argument says more about you than it does the person you're criticising.

--- Post edited by scoea on 6/6 10:28 ---

bandito Posted on 6/6 10:33
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

If you had both come up with better alternatives to Southgate at the present moment then it would have been a debate but you only said it was a bad idea without actually coming up with a solution. This is a healthy debate btw, thats why there's a 130 odd posts about the subject. Why do you assume I think I'm right all the time. Should I put in my humble opinion after every sentence just to satisfy your insecurities?

scoea Posted on 6/6 10:38
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

You're missing the point entirely Bandito. You are criticising me for changing my mind and that is what has annoyed me.

As for your suggestion that this isn't a debate unless we put forward an alternative manager - absolute tosh. We are debating the merits of Southgate here it is no less a debate because I haven't said I would prefer Sven or Allardyce (which I actually did say last night BTW).

BigBadSteve Posted on 6/6 10:39
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

"I have not come across so many people so far up their own backsides"

Go and take a look in the mirror!

"Not good enough for me"

Funny, I wasn't aware that the club had to runs it's staff appointment by you first. You're so full of your own self-importance it's unbelievable.

grantus Posted on 6/6 10:39
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Bandito, you really can be very childish. Many other options have been put forward, they've been repeatedly put forward for the last three weeks.

Mowbray, Hitzfeld, Erikkson, Alerdyce, to name a few

This thread wasn't about alternatives anyway, it was about Southgate and why the concerns about him.

You assume that there are no top drawer managers out there, you dont know this.

The only reason Southgate is coming is to keep the backroom staff in place, its all about his understanding of the club, not his abilities as a manager and people are concerned about that.

green_beret20 Posted on 6/6 10:40
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

I'm not convinced.

Not only does it fit the mantra of the 'old boys' football club it also means we have to resort to getting a player with no managerial experience in order to fit our bill. Hell, theres even a large question mark on whether we can give him the position. What a joke.

What then if we can't, do we have to have Southgate giving advice out in dark rooms for two years until he gets his badges?

This isn't radical, new, risky or even sticking to the current mantra of this club, its pure conservatism out of fear for change. We still suffer from Robson's touch, if he isn't ex Man U, ex England or ex Boro the clubs arse seems to fall out.

Our standards are too high and we fear change. As I said, Iím not convinced and I have serious doubts.

Its the pure view that Boro already seem to be out of ideas thats worrying me. Doesn't strike me as a club moving forward.

--- Post edited by green_beret20 on 6/6 10:42 ---

scoea Posted on 6/6 10:44
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Steve - where have I ever suggested that the club runs it's choice by me? It is a figure of speech. For condascending quotes you should look no further than your good self:

"At last, the voice of sanity. I thought for a moment the inmates had taken over the asylum."

"I didn't know you were trying to follow the football news from Aus, that must indeed be difficult without Internet access"

"That's what I like to see, someone who knows his own mind and sticks to his guns"

All I am doing is giving an opinion that you disagree with and because of that you feel the need to be personal. Fair enough if that's what you want to do.

bandito Posted on 6/6 10:47
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

For GIbbo to take such a risk suggests the better alternatives may not be available.

scoea Posted on 6/6 10:48
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

I thought you were of the view that it is the least risky option Bandito?

BigBadSteve Posted on 6/6 10:50
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

scoea

but your opinion shifts like the sands

scoea Posted on 6/6 10:51
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

No it doesn't - try reading my posts properly instead of just being childish.

BigBadSteve Posted on 6/6 10:53
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

I don't think I'll bother. You'll have changed your mind by tomorrow.

bandito Posted on 6/6 10:54
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Scoea:Lets nip this in the bud now. It's a MASSIVE risk. However Gibson is not going in blind. He has trust and faith in his appopintmentt otherwise he wouldnt be so bold as to make such a key decision. He'd opt for the easy option and that would be to stick Curbishley on a 4 yr million pound a yr deal. If anyone took a risk on anybody as manager at the club that I'd look no firther than the gate.. Maybe Gibbos hands are tied.

green_beret20 Posted on 6/6 10:55
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Scoea what you say is irrelevant because when it comes to the bottom line you darenít show any disagreement with Gibbo, it may spoil your ultra fan persona.

By the way, if we do hire Southgate there isn't any of this learning period or five year plan crap. The whole point was to build on what we've supposedly achieved and improve so the pressures on Southgate from day one especially since heís been here almost as long as McClaren was.

scoea Posted on 6/6 10:59
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

I have come to the conclusion that it is really not worth getting into a debate like this. I was really enjoying this thread with the different opinions until the children like Steve and Beret somehow managed to turn it into a weakness to listen to others opinions.

My opinion is straightforward. Southgate would never be my choice as he represents far too much of a risk. However, posts on here and what Gibson has said has given me food for thought and I am not as disappointed about the appointment as I was.

I hope that opinion is OK with everyone as god knows I wouldn't want to upset BigBadSteve.

grantus Posted on 6/6 11:05
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Got an opinion like the wind you scoea.

BigBadSteve Posted on 6/6 11:08
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Upset me? Think not.

sproutruss Posted on 6/6 11:13
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

if we wanna go forward, we need someone with managerial experience, not someone who needs to learn fast like Robbo or McClaren. Please Mr Gibson bring in someone plenty of experience, even an overseas manager.

zaphod Posted on 6/6 12:24
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

The problem we all face as fans is that we don't really know much about Southgate's managerial qualities. That makes me very nervous and it makes me think it's a big risk, especially as I've had doubts about his qualities as a captain in the past (not influential enough on the pitch).

I'm just hoping that Steve Gibson has observed Southgate in action and is in a better position to judge than me.

zaphod Posted on 6/6 12:25
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

For the second time, it's a judgement call by Steve Gibson & I hope he gets it right.

--- Post edited by zaphod on 6/6 12:29 ---

boroboy75 Posted on 6/6 13:03
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

I agree with zaphod, with regards to his point about being influential.
Also, his fist salute to the crowd doesn't really sit easy with me. It's a bit like the class geek trying to act 'cool'.

Theozone Posted on 6/6 14:16
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Why the panic over Southgate? Erm Bryan Robson was Man Utd's club captain and learnt his trade from Ferguson and with an abundance of cash got us relegated once and nearly relegated again & I don't think anyone would want him back here. As for continuity didn't southampton try this when strachan left when they appointed from within and we all know what happened to them.

To appoint yet another inexperienced manager is a big mistake and for Gibson to only want a British manager is short sighted to say the least and down right stupid in my opinion. I have nothing but admiration for Gibson as a man but he needs to reconsider this decision. I was pleased to read Barnwell's comments & hope Gibson is blocked from appointing Southgate or anyone else who is unqualified to take over OUR club.

Club run by local man with best interests of club & town at heart = Yes.
Club run by a totalitarian dictator who refuses to listen to fans = No.

(runs for cover)

--- Post edited by Theozone on 6/6 14:26 ---

Gillandi Posted on 6/6 18:57
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Grantus - "We should be demanding the best for the Boro, the infrastructure is there to deliver it."

Are you dissapointed we didn't compete with Chelsea for Shevchenko's signature then or tried to lure Mourinho or Wenger away from their current jobs? I don't remember you complaining about any of this (and you've been complaining about everything else for the last 12 months) maybe you realise, despite your flowery prose, that we haven't really got the infrastructure to demand the "best", so we are getting the best for the infrastructure that we have already.

Gibson the innovator...i'm loving it.

--- Post edited by Gillandi on 6/6 18:58 ---

Theozone Posted on 6/6 19:12
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

No one is saying we should be challenging with the bigger football clubs in the premiership or europe for the very top players or managers but I still don't think its unrealistic for fans of an established premiership club to expect an experienced football manager in charge of their team.

Gillandi Posted on 6/6 19:20
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

We haven't appointed an experienced manager since Lennie Lawrence so when did this fantasy start to trouble you?

grantus Posted on 6/6 19:21
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

I talk about current Boro affairs good and bad Gillandi and well you know it. Anyone would think I'm a whinger the way you portray me.

Be realistic, of course I dont think we can compete with Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool, if you want to narrow the "best" down the the "elite" then fair enough. We can't compete in a top end bidding war, nor take away the managers of the elite G14 or whatever they're called. We are in the next level of football club though. That puts us up there and able to compete on the pitch if not on the balance sheet.

We can however, compete with anyone else in the country, in Europe.

Our performances on the pitch and some of our player signings over the last ten years are evidence of this.

Theozone Posted on 6/6 19:33
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Gillandi All I'd say is times change. When we appointed Robson we needed a figurehead to put Boro on the map, after Robson we had an aging squad who had only just escaped relegation which made our choice of manager restricted, now we are an established premiership club with a good squad of players, a good youth set up and money to spend each season. As fans we want an experienced manager at the helm.

People are putting a lot of blind faith in Southgate and Gibson but the fact is nobody knows the answer to many many things regarding Southgate;

What's his transfer dealings record? Unknown
What style of play will he employ? Unknown
How does he handle big name players? Unknown
How does he handle young players? Unknown
Are his substitutions logical? Unknown
What formations does he prefer? Unknown
Etc, etc, etc...

--- Post edited by Theozone on 6/6 19:37 ---

damit1968 Posted on 6/6 19:53
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

I think someone should start a 'for or against Gareth' thread, so that those of us that are for him can laugh at the moaners in a couple of years when we finish in the top six

As long as he buys in better players than we already have then he won't go far wrong and Huth and Onyewu look better than Ehiogu and Davies (squad improved at the back), Douala looks better than Parlour (Right side improved)...maybe he will bring in a few more too

Gillandi Posted on 6/6 19:54
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

"When we appointed Robson we needed a figurehead to put Boro on the map."

Who decided we needed a figurehead to put Boro on the map? Who identified that figurehead and put HIM and us on the footballing map? A revolutionary thing to do as I recall.

Then what did we know about McClaren? Another untried manager who's potential had been identified by Gibson.

What was Mac's "transfer dealings record? Unknown
What style of play will he employ? Unknown
How does he handle big name players? Unknown
How does he handle young players? Unknown
Are his substitutions logical? Unknown
What formations does he prefer? Unknown
Etc, etc, etc..."


2 out of 2.

So now....you are saying "Steve Gibson, now we're UEFA Cup finalists, stop being Steve Gibson, stop seeing potential in people and giving them millions of pounds to bring untold success to our club. Stop earning respect in the game. Stop innovating, stop trusting your instincts and start conforming, start listening to others, start doing things the safe way, the sensible way, the obvious way, the way other chairman do."


You turn if you want to, Steve Gibson's obviously not for turning.



--- Post edited by Gillandi on 6/6 20:06 ---

Big_Shot Posted on 6/6 20:05
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

What's his transfer dealings record? Unknown, so by default not as bad as most managers

What style of play will he employ? Who knows, it might be a pleasant surprise after all he has played at the top all his career so is used to being up against the best so maybe has learnt something from them, as long as he wins I don't mind

How does he handle big name players? I'd say very well, as he's been a captain throughout his career he is used to having the respect of those under him, is also highly respected throughout the game

How does he handle young players? Fine, as club captain he is already a role model to the young players

Are his substitutions logical? Who knows, he hasn't managed a team before, but are anybodies, some you get right, some you don't. I don't see this as such a big deal anyway. You identify the problems and try and put them right

What formations does he prefer? we don't know, I guess it depends on the players he has available to him and his and the coaches ideas of how we should play, it might be a pleasant surprise. We know that various formations can be very effective with this group of players

--- Post edited by Big_Shot on 6/6 20:07 ---

Theozone Posted on 6/6 20:25
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Gillandi surely the difference between after Robbo left and now is back then we had an aging squad who had only just avoided relegation, Now we are an established premiership club with a good squad, good young players and just done extremely well in europe so I think it's realistic for fans to expect an experienced manager to take over this time and not another ' fingers crossed lets hope he does well as a manager' appointment.

By restricting his search to British managers who have to keep the coaching setup in place (one which I don't think has been overly successful one top ten finish in 5 years is underachieving in my opinion given the transfer funds and squad of players available to them) Gibson has put us in this position. Despite what I and many other people think of him as a man and what he has done for our club we also realise he is not an all seeing all knowing God figure.

--- Post edited by Theozone on 6/6 20:26 ---

Gillandi Posted on 6/6 20:30
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

"Despite what I and many other people think of him as a man and what he has done for our club we also realise he is not an all seeing all knowing God figure."


And at such times i'm sure he'll call on your advice.

In the meantime, lets celebrate the start of the next chapter in Middlesbrough's amazing success story under Steve Gibson.

Theozone Posted on 6/6 20:39
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Yes lets all go into the new season with our fingers crossed hoping he's not another ex footballer who failed in management.

You're right Gillandi no one is an all seeing all knowing god figure & that's why you appoint people with a proven track record. If Southgate wants to manage our club he should go away and manage at a lower level (even our youth or reserve team for example), but he certainly should not be given the manager's job of an established premiership side as his first job. This appointment smacks of desperation.

P.S. Maybe I should apply for a job as a hgv driver tomorrow at Bulkhaul, I have no experience & no qualifications but to be fair I have seen lorries drive past me on a motorway & I would be loyal to the company if given the job so I should be a prime candidate for the post.

--- Post edited by Theozone on 6/6 20:49 ---

CrazyL Posted on 6/6 20:47
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Yeah quite right.Look what happened to Kenny Daglish.

Theozone Posted on 6/6 20:53
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Crazyl for every success story there are at least ten who have been unsuccessful. I'm sure Gibson asked Robbo all these questions and yet he still managed to relegate one of the leagues biggest spenders once and almost twice. The fact is Southgate doesn't even know the answers to these questions so why should we take the risk?

Big_Shot Posted on 6/6 20:57
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

'P.S. Maybe I should apply for a job as a hgv driver tomorrow at Bulkhaul, I have no experience and no qualifications but to be fair I have seen lorries drive past me on a motorway and I would be loyal to the company if given the job so I should be a prime candidate for the post'

Football management is a unique job in that there is no right or wrong way to do it and no qualifications or courses will mean you are better at it. There are no guidebooks or manuals that can make you a success. The vast majority of football managers will lose their jobs because of their own shortcomings, irrespective of having every possible qualification that allows then to say they are capable of doing it.



--- Post edited by Big_Shot on 6/6 20:58 ---

Theozone Posted on 6/6 21:01
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Does experience of doing the job mean nothing to you aswell?

CrazyL Posted on 6/6 21:16
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Honestly now. How much did you know about Arsene Wenger before he arrived at Arsenal? Would you have known whether he could have answered your questions? Gibbo has been watching GS at work at close quarters for 4 years now. Taking a new manager is always a risk for any club.Loads of people have touted Mogga for the job. Southgate has more international and european experience, has played many more games in the modern premiership, has seen the development of cutting edge training and coaching techniques, sports science initiatives (nutrition,psychology,physiology,game analysis,tactics) at the heart of a premiership club whose academy is nationally acclaimed.Mogga did ok with Hibernian.Ask yourself who is really the more experienced of the two.When was the last time Martin O'Neill was exposed to the premiership-how much has the game at that level changed since then? Where are Leicester now? What about Louis Van Gaal,Big Phil Scolari,Gus Hiddink? Premiership experience / knowledge of our football club? Bobby Robson, Terry Venables both won titles in Spain, jack-schit in the modern premiership.Aime Jaquet? Remember him?

manboobs69 Posted on 6/6 21:18
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

But they have all been managers southgate doesnt even have expereince of coaching. its like letting someone who hasnt even passed their test drive a ferarri alone

Theozone Posted on 6/6 21:23
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Yes every appointment holds risk (this doesn't just apply to jobs in football) so you use previous track records as an indicator. Southgate has no experience at all. Appointing an inexperienced manager is something that smaller lower league clubs have to do because they can't attract managers with proven track records to take over their clubs. I can't believe that an established premiership club is in this situation.

CrazyL Posted on 6/6 21:35
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Southgate has loads of experince of coaching and managing.You don't have to be the active participant to experience something. The day before you passed your driving test you were as good a driver as you were the day after you passed it.The qualification changed nothing as far as your ability was concerned.A ferrari, as far as i know, has a steering wheel, brake, clutch, accelerator the same as a Nissan micra.

BigBadSteve Posted on 6/6 21:37
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

"A ferrari, as far as i know, has a steering wheel, brake, clutch, accelerator the same as a Nissan micra."

I can vouch for that!

manboobs69 Posted on 6/6 21:40
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

List the premierships sides who appointed a manager with no previoius managerial experience and where did they finish in the league

CrazyL Posted on 6/6 21:47
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

I'll do that if you list all the ones with lots of previous managerial experience,some at international level, who managed sides recently relegated from the premiership.

manboobs69 Posted on 6/6 21:49
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

You just dont see the top sides employing managers with no previous experience.

bevo2005 Posted on 6/6 21:49
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Crystal Palace are interviewing Alberto Zacharrone (sp.), an Italian manager with a good record of success. Is GS really the best our club can do?

--- Post edited by bevo2005 on 6/6 21:52 ---

CrazyL Posted on 6/6 22:00
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Which brings me right back to Kenny Daglish. Mark Hughes got the Wales job with no previous and then the Blackburn one with no previous day to day club managment experience. Steve Staunton is the new Ireland boss, Curbishly stepped straight up as Charlton boss, Coleman at Fulham.Martin Jol?? I dont know if GS is the right man for the job-time will tell.But the experience/ qualifications argument is a complete white elephant. Name me a top flight manager who started off cack but is now brilliant because they have gained experience.Mourinho,Benitez,Ferguson,Wenger? Successful from the day they moved into managment because some just have it and some dont.Why don't we go for Harry Redknapp-he's got years of experience and he's won er.......

Theozone Posted on 6/6 22:38
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Thanks for clarifying things for me. So as a club we're on a par with blackburn, charlton and fulham cheers that's good to know.

CrazyL Posted on 6/6 22:52
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

Oh right! I'm sorry! Who did you imagine we are on a par with?Imagine being the operative word! And answer my point about the managers of the four biggest clubs in the premiership who had success from the first day they moved into management despite having had no previous experience.Mourinho had a really slow start in top flight management didnt he. I bet the Porto directors are kicking themselves to this day for taking a risk on him.

WestPalmRed Posted on 7/6 2:36
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

It would take a very long time for Southgate to have a negative effect on the club. He is surrounded by as much experience in football that he needs. Harrison has a wealth of experience as a coach and Round, it seems, is highly respected.

I'm sure Gibson would soon act if Southgate marched in his office and told him that he was selling cattermole, downing, riggot, and morrison. I'm also sure the he wouldn't be given 5 million pounds to bring Carlton Palmer out of retirement.

There are obviously names that I would have preferred to Southgate but there are more that I would have disagreed with.

I think Allardyce would have been a risk because he would have wanted his own staff, plays long ball football, and is a nob.

I respect Gibson's choice not to go with an experienced foriegn manager that hasn't been successful in the English game. He may have lost his backroom staff and be left with a larger rebuilding job if it hadn't worked out.

I have no argument against Mowbray.

Curbishley is boring and would have had had demands like his own people that I'm guessing Gibson wasn't prepared to do.

My thinking is that Southgate isn't ideal, but when I think of alternatives I am more than happy to give him my support

ray192 Posted on 7/6 5:40
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

bandito

No panic here .

Theozone Posted on 7/6 10:16
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

This wealth of footballing knowledge he'll have behind him didn't help our league position last year or our poor defensive record did it?

CrazyL with the money we've spent and continue to spend each year I would of thought we'd be a club consistently challenging for a top 6 place in the league and not a team still worrying about relegation after easter.

No matter what you say about managers the fact is appointing a manager with experience & a track record to look back on is far better than taking a shot in the dark which is what we're about to do again. Sorry for daring to question the chairman's plans but blind faith & wishful thinking aren't really my strong points.

Oh and by the way Southgate wasn't exactly Gibson's first choice either was he so I think it's understandable that me & many others are not happy with the appointment & are willing to question the chairman's decision.

--- Post edited by Theozone on 7/6 10:32 ---

Derby_Red Posted on 7/6 12:57
re: Why the panic about Gareth?

"blind faith and wishful thinking aren't really my strong points".

What you doing following Boro then?