|BeerForDolphins Posted on 6/6 2:13|
I've been thinking long and hard about Gareth and how his appointment has brought such opinion...to be honest I would be quite pleased about it if he was made manager.
We need someone that is respected by the fans REGARDLESS of their experience. Southgate is, Robson WAS, Mowbray is...why? because fans appreciate that these players have a special talent and can relate to them because they have sat on terraces, in wind and rain, to watch these players give their all for their respective clubs.
Maclaren never had that...he had the reputation of being a first class coach and to a degree he proved that but he was fighting a constant battle against a section of the crowd that never agreed with his appointment, not just because he was unproven in management....more so because he was unknown (in relative terms) to the "ordinary" football fan.
If you really think about a football manager and you try to break the job down into its component parts, it actually becomes much easier to accept Southgate as a credible option.
If you look at Shankly, Paisley, Ramsey, Clough...did they have coaching badges.no..but they did have fantastic man-management skills and were all highly intelligent and articulate men.
Southgate is one the most articulate and intellectual footballers in the modern game...there is not one Boro fan who has cannot fail to be impressed with his leadership skills on the park, his attitude, but more importantly his ability to take that from the field to the national media.
You may think that this is irrelevant when managing a football team but look back over the last five years and you realise how much fan negativity towards Maclaren was down to his handling of the press and his apparant inability to see the same game the fans were watching....remember "magnificent"...or have we got short memories. Take a listen to Bryan Robson being interviewed after a game...how does that make you feel when you try to imagine Bryan in the dressing room when it something "inspiring" needs to be said...do you think he would be capable...honestly?
As for Maclarens and Robsons man-management skills...we all honestly don't know, unless we dealt with them on a daily basis, but it is clear to me that in Southgate, from the way he handles himself on the field and his rapport with the team, that we are talking about a very special individual. This is coupled with the published articles that stated that in matches it was Southgate who motivated the players when the chips were down and who reportedly visited players individually at their homes when they the team needed it most....what does that tell you? It tells me that we have a person that is supremely respected by his team-mates but also that he has the desire and the passion to make his club a success, whether in the role of club captain or manager.
I am not worried about tactics to much....football is a very simple game when played correctly and most of the time is beyond the managers control BUT I honestly can see Gareth having the ability to take the his incredible reading of the game, off the field, succesfully to the bench and have the nouse to change the game when necessary.
As for the coaching element of the game. Well, in Gareth we have a guy that has been one of the best defenders in British football for the last ten years plus...if he doesn't know what makes a succesful defender then who does? He has played against some of the best attacking players in the world..he knows from bitter experience what it takes to cause defenders problems plus he has an extremely experienced backroom staff to draw upon when needed.
What else do we need from a manager? An astute purchaser of talent? I don't think that is a pre-requisite at all...some people have it down to an art form (Wenger) but you could equally argue that Ferguson has been extremely lucky with some of his buys and downright awful with others.
I am struggling now to pick out the other qualities that a succesful manager needs....time...yes. The fans support ...definately. Of course, the chairmans support. The fact that Steve Gibson thinks so highly of him speaks volumes and is considering him for the role means that he can see something special in Gareth that some fans may not be able yet to see.
None of this is a guarantee...it is still down to eleven guys on the field to produce the goods but I think Gareth at the helm may not seem at first to be the best option but could, over the next few years, be an inspired and visionary choice.
Go for it Gareth...you have my support.
|Fatsuma Posted on 6/6 8:52|
Well thought out and presented point of view BFD!
Southgate is an unknown quantity.
McClaren was an untested Manager, but a highliy acclaimed coach.
Robson was neither, but was a HUGE name in football.
What McClaren did well, and will continue to do with England was to surround himself with good staff, and some key professional players in terms of ability, character and their suitability as role models (Southgate, Boateng)
Robson brought in his mates (Viv and Clayton!) for the key roles, and attracted some outstanding talent. Had he shown more acuity in assembling his coaching staff he would now be England manager, and Boro would have tasted Champions League football.
Southgate is somewhere between the two.
Not as big a name as Robbo, not as talented or experienced a coach.
But he is an intelligent, articulate, respected player, who also has a good business sense.
A risky appointment? Yes. But so were Robbo and Macca.
However, if it goes ahead, all three will have been made to fit into a clear plan masterminded by an outstanding Chairman, who has, as he correctly says, taken a club from bankruptcy to a European final.
Three young untried English managers. Well done Gibbo.
Now let's see who really has the interests of the Englsih game at heart. Our Chairman, the FA or the LMA!
|blaggamuffin Posted on 6/6 8:58|
Superb, well balanced posts. <takes hat off and applauds>
|captain5 Posted on 6/6 9:01|
I think he's also not as 'nice' a guy as his media profile which I think is good for us, at least in the short to medium term.
I posted a link to something from blot yesterday where he highlighted how Southgate had 'played a blinder' (block17 it).
I just hope that he gives up the playing if he does the job as I don't think he should try and combine the role.
|holgate_rochey Posted on 6/6 9:03|
Quality read, fantastic post mate. Should give that to Gibbo to use in his argument with the Premier League
|The_Commisar Posted on 6/6 9:04|
|smogmeister61 Posted on 6/6 9:10|
Totally agree. A well balanced argument and put forward well. (Now give Southgate his money back!) lol
But best post I've read on the subject so far.
|BoroTommo Posted on 6/6 9:16|
Singularly the most intelligent post I've read on here for donkey's
|glippy Posted on 6/6 9:17|
I think Southgate has one of the qualities that any manager needs - he is a mature, articulate, intelligent man who would inspire respect from people, similar to Tony Mowbray in my opinion. I alway think of the quote alledgedly attributed to him about Sven's team talk at half time against Brazil in the last world cup " We needed Winston Churchill and we got Ian Duncan Smith".
|sparkins Posted on 6/6 9:20|
First post I have seen for ages from the username I covet the most (I have dallied with developing a similar ersatz username such as ShandyBassForSloths, but it just aint the same), and a great post at that.
|scoea Posted on 6/6 9:22|
I being slowly convinced here. Thanks Beerfor Dolphins!!
|DybuksChampion Posted on 6/6 9:24|
Very good post Beer. A rallying call if ever I heard one. I worry that Southgate can be underhand but food for thought. Thanks.
|grantus Posted on 6/6 9:26|
A very persuasive argument BeerForDolphins and Fatsuma. Very good posts.
I Didn't know that Gareth visited players at their homes when the team needed it the most, or that he has a good business sense.
Belief in Gareth's potential and in Gibson's decisions, you ask for. I can do that. Let's see if he gets the position first though. Or whether we recieve an application from Otmar Hitzfeld in the next day or two.
|ParmoMan17 Posted on 6/6 9:36|
Prob the best post i've ever read on here!!
competely shares my views
Gibbo has never let us down before - so lets just have faith in him!
|grantus Posted on 6/6 9:47|
That shouldn't make it the best post you've ever read on here. It's easy to like a post that reflects your opinion. The best posts make you think about your stance, question your own opinion and provoke thought.
I don't share these views yet BeerforDolphins post is very convincing. It has me questioning my opinion and may force a change of heart.
That is why its a great post from my perspective.
If it repeated my views, it would be a good read, but one of the best posts I'd read, it would not be.
|Perry_Combover Posted on 6/6 9:48|
it maybe academic of the LMA get their way.
i think if he is appointed its vital that he surrounds himself with good, experienced coaches, becuase he appears to have the other qualities required - sound judgement, respect of the players and fans, good communication skills, a hard edge (not always obvious but its there). the one thing he lacks at this point in time is experience.
i also think he would have to give up the playing side, as being player/manager of a PL club is probably too big an ask.
|grantus Posted on 6/6 9:51|
Anyone remember Kenny Dagleish? Didn't he win the double as a player manager?
I actually think he could combine the two for this season, although I wouldn't expect him to play every game or remain as club captain. We certainly would still benefit from his experience on the pitch from time to time.
|briggsys_boro_duvet Posted on 6/6 9:58|
He will get the job because gibson will argue that the manager will be english,the coaching staff will be english and he wants the future of the team to be english and home grown. The LMA wont be happy but the FA will put pressure on them and the chairmen will be fine with it. Gibson will argue that there are very few ex england international players coming through to become good managers and southgate should be encouraged to take up management and progress and maybe be an england manager in the future. Whether southgate can be a good manager is another thing. It is a massive gamble by gibson
|littlejimmy Posted on 6/6 10:02|
A very, very good post, BFD. It has helped me see my doubts from a different angle.
|bandito Posted on 6/6 10:03|
POST OF THE YEAR so far for me.
|boroboy75 Posted on 6/6 10:06|
Did Southgate actually visit players at their homes, or is that fiction to back up your opinion?
|bandito Posted on 6/6 10:12|
he met many of the players in harrogate for "coffee"
|extratomato Posted on 6/6 10:12|
From a poster with an incredibly silly and irresponsible user name, comes a sensible and well balanced post.
His observations above, have made me feel a lot more confident on a appointment which I have doubted in the past.
|grantus Posted on 6/6 10:12|
It is funny that when somebody puts up a well written piece, all the people who agree start piping up with the "Hear hear, brilliant stuff" responses. All they are really saying is "Well done, you agree with my point of view" very rarely do you see the same well done's for somebody with a new point of view or a conflicting point of view. It is in fact just a confirmation of their own view.
It is a top notch post mind and has provided some rare exceptions.
Just makes me smile when I see the ass kissing though.
--- Post edited by grantus on 6/6 10:13 ---
|Fatsuma Posted on 6/6 10:13|
Bandy's right - All apart from Jimmy who was at the Bookies because he thought Gate had said to meet at Bet Ease!
--- Post edited by Fatsuma on 6/6 10:14 ---
|bandito Posted on 6/6 10:14|
grantus, youre just hacked off mate cos your argument for another manager isnt even in the same league. So bad infact you've changed your tune. Not the first time may I add
|bandito Posted on 6/6 10:17|
Cafe prego actually, ooh er. Gate, Vid and the Hass all sipping their lattes and reading the papeirs whilst mulling over the fortunes of the club. Brilliant. I bet it was like a union meeting
|Mr_Maz Posted on 6/6 10:22|
Southgate for manager as long as he gets a hair cut
|Fatsuma Posted on 6/6 10:23|
"Nah then, nah then!
As ye know, wirral 'ere te tek aboot trouble at cloob!!"
|BigBadSteve Posted on 6/6 10:28|
So where's your counter arguement then grantus? Lets have some well-crafted words of wisdom pointing out the errors of our (and Gibson's) ways. I'm sure you could come up with a rousing paragraph or two couldn't you? Then again maybe not.
|grantus Posted on 6/6 10:50|
I have made plenty of counter points over the last few weeks.
I happen to think that BeerforDolphins post is an excellent backing for the Southgate appointment. There isn't a right and wrong appointment at this time, there is simply differing levels of risk and chances of success.
Tony Mowbray is the man that I want to manage Boro, failing that, I'd go for Otmar Hitzfeld, Erikkson, or someone from the continent. I would rather split up the coaching team in order to bring in one of these top European guys. But thats me.
I can see the argument for Gareth Southgate, and now that Gibbo has leant his weight to it I understand and can support it more than I could before.
I can put my preference to one side and support the decision of the club. Isn't that what we should all do if at all possible when decisions are made that we don't necasserily agree with?
I'm being positive about this. You lot would rather I'd argue against this appointment, complain about it, be totally against it? Why? So you can call me a boo boy, not a real supporter?
Sorry, you've got the wrong guy. I support Middlesbrough Football Club. I speak when I'm concerned about the state of affairs, always have, always will.
|BeerForDolphins Posted on 6/6 10:56|
The thing is, I am still undecided as to who would be my first choice..I just wanted to put my thoughts down because some of the comments coming out about managerial experience just didn't seem to ring true to me or really make any sense in the cold light of day.
There was/is a lot of negativity about a man who COULD in my opinion do a good job...if it was my decision to appoint the manager, it may be different. Nobody can assume the processes that Steve Gibson has gone through to determine his course of action...like anything else in business, he will weigh up all of the applicants on their merits but balance that with a list of his priorities that he would feel that the applicant could fulfill.
It is very telling in his comments yesterday that continuity is big factor in his mind and that a new manager would possibly want to make sweeping changes which could disrupt the "internal machinary"...which include the youth setup, backroom staff etc.
If you were to ask me now who I would like in place I honestly couldn't give you an answer!!!!!
|ParmoMan17 Posted on 6/6 11:14|
Grantus - agree with your 'question your stance' opinion.
My initial thoughts were for Mogga, and, I would still like him at Middlesbrough.
However, Does Mogga hold the required licsence? are the ruled the same in Scotland??
I will support whoever Gibbo appoints, as Boro are my team - my love!
|blaggamuffin Posted on 6/6 20:28|
Just knocking this up to the top of the board for anyone who hasn't read it yet. You should.
|Gillandi Posted on 6/6 20:32|
Even though BFD has borrowed heavily from my posts on the subject last night I applaud his insight, his eloquence and his username. The Dolphin has the power to not only drink beer but win friends and influence people.
--- Post edited by Gillandi on 6/6 22:50 ---
|red_ruth Posted on 6/6 22:36|
good post bfd, steve mac was a dead man walking, someone turned it around for him and I think this is what got Southgate the job, and deservedly so.
What concerns me is this buisness about the badges. This needs to be sorted out quickly, I don't want a 'which big name may or may not look after Gareth until he ge's his badges' scenario as this will be a huge and unessesary distraction.
|manboobs69 Posted on 6/6 22:39|
southgate was lined up as next manager back in january,stevie macclaren was leaving in the summer even if he did not get the england job. Southgates comments on the eve of the semi final and back in january confirmed it
|BoroTommo Posted on 7/6 14:41|
Arise Sir Gareth.
We are behind you. Go and build us a team of locals and superstars and deliver the vision of our great leader.
We salute you
|zaphod Posted on 7/6 15:04|
It's still a big risk (which I hope pays off) because he's being promoted to a job he's never done before. There's a huge difference between talking a good job and doing a good job, as anybody who's carried out job interviews will attest.
Also, I don't believe Southgate was much of a captain on the pitch. He wasn't influential enough. I hope he's more influential as a manager.
|BoroTommo Posted on 7/6 15:09|
Zaph, on this occassion, I have to disagree, I think GS is the best captain (on and off the pitch) this club has ever had.
|beeline Posted on 7/6 15:21|
I tend to agree with zaphod (for a change, ha), but think Southgate's developed a mean streak recently, witnessed by his sticking the knife into Mac (for the second time) on his England appointment. I hope he continues to develop his 'nasty' side - the nicer you are the more effective the mean streak can be.