| red_rebel2 Posted on 18/9 10:06 | |
| Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
Tony Robinson is done a documentary called "The Doomsday code". It is about how Christian fundamentalists of America spend an awful lot of money, power and influence in pursuit of a "Greater Israel", opposing the "Road Map" to peace in Israel, the pulling down of Islamic shrines, and the demonisation of Islam, (and other things detrimental to people's health and well-being). one of the things that came out was that 59% of Americans polled believed the book of revelations as literal truth. Why this is a scary statistic is revealed in the documentary. It is repeated tonight at 1.40am. Did anyone see it first time out? I suppose this is an FAO Moxy. | |
| Link: End Timers Are A Coming Lord | |
| Matelot Posted on 18/9 10:18 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
Was a very good show indeed very interesting. | |
| zaphod Posted on 18/9 10:24 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
There have always been people like this around. I remember somebody earnestly telling me in the 1970s that the EEC was the twelve-headed beast predicted in the apocalyptic prophesies. The whole of the Jehovah's Witnesses sect is founded on this sort of thing. | |
| Eddie_Catflap Posted on 18/9 10:32 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
Just caught the end of it. Looked quite good if you're into that sort of thing. For a few minutes he was discussing magic mushrooms as a possible inspiration for the book of revelation, and went off to find some. I thought they were going to show him taking them ala Christopher Mayhew on that old Panorama show. Or like Jim and Doug on Neighbours. Best episode ever. I guess this is an FAO Mox in a lot of ways. Mox, I don't wish to cause offence but I've been wondering for a while now how much of an influence your religious beliefs are to your political stance. Not a criticism - you can believe what you like (and you can also tell me to fook off if it's none of my business). | |
| red_rebel2 Posted on 18/9 10:38 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
Zaphod, there have always been people like this.... but now they have their hands on the levers of power in a military giant. | |
| EmersonsPerm Posted on 18/9 10:40 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
According to a bloke at work the world will end in 2012 anyway. | |
| jeff_potato Posted on 18/9 10:40 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
That's true to a certain extent in the White House, r_r, but not in the Pentagon - they are two separate mechanisms who co-operate every now and then when it will further their interests. See my dissertation in a few months time for further details. 
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| PumpingGnome Posted on 18/9 10:41 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
The mainstream Christian scholarship will tell you that the book of Revelation is a diatribe against Rome. The Rome of the time, that is. Ian Paisley and his crew say it is a diatribe against Rome (the Catholic Church) You can read just about anything you like into Revelation to suit your own agenda. A bit like the prophecies of Nostradamus. These f^ckin nutters in the US will twist anything they like to suit their own agenda and will ignore anything contrary which is inconvenient. Unfortunately they have serious friends in serious high places, which is scary. They've been preaching the End Of Days since the time of Paul but it hasn't happened yet, and it will probably continue until we succeed in making the planet uninhabitable for life as we know it. Jim. But that's another issue. | |
| zaphod Posted on 18/9 10:46 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
I don't think they have their hands on the levers of power at all. They have some influence over Dubya, mainly in making him excessively tolerant of Israel's brutality. I don't see there's much other sign of apocalyptic influence in Bush's foreign policy. BTW, Armageddon is supposed to be the Plain of Meggido in Northern Israel, not Jerusalem. | |
| Eddie_Catflap Posted on 18/9 10:48 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
Another documentary I'd like to see is Jesus Camp, which shows a religious summer camp in North Dakota. Heard about it on davidbyrne.com. Maybe Channel 4 will pick it up at some point. Scary stuff (for an atheist like myself). There's a rather amusing (to me at least) clip which shows the point at which a cardboard cutout of George W Bush is brought out and the kids reverently touch its hands. | |
| Link: David Byrne | |
| peako_from_the_boro Posted on 18/9 10:49 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
RR I watched it. It added a bit of flesh to the concerns that the rest of the world has regarding what basis the current American regime is formulating any of its policies on. Basically Christian neofundamentalists (i.e. even more deranged than your basic bible as literal truth creationist pro life etc etc) of the most extreme kind have made up a fairy tale about the true meaning of the book of revelations. A worthwhile two hours to reconfirm any prejudices I had regarding any organised religion. It's a shame it didn't include the Simpsons pi55-take on the "left behind" films from the rapture zealots. | |
| littlejimmy Posted on 18/9 10:59 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
Is there an equivalent of Arageddon in The Quran, I wonder? Does Islam have an End Of the World scenario? | |
| Revol_Tees Posted on 18/9 11:06 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
Damn, I missed it. These guys do, to a certain extent, have their hands on the levers of power - certainly where policy is concerned regarding homosexuality, marriage, abstinence, evolution in schools etc. In fact, their discourse even affects the war on terror, probably more the way it's presented than how it's conceived. There's an American writer called Thomas Frank who has written about the Christian right in America being very much a popular grassroots social movement which has been co-opted/absorbed by the Republic party and used to their advantage. It was a "backlash" by angry, poor, blue-collar Christian conservatives whose leaders finally told them to get out and be politically active instead of sitting on the fence and letting the country be governed by a godless liberal elite: "The conservatives have captured the language of social class, and they think of themselves as a dissenting movement and even as a rebellion against society's masters, against the establishment..." | |
| zaphod Posted on 18/9 11:07 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
The Quran does not, I believe, contain any prophesies at all. Mainly instructions. | |
| The_Commisar Posted on 18/9 11:13 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
Missed it unfortunately but will try to see it when repeated. In my own simplistic view of the world when one groups says that it is the only true believers and that the rest are heretics, theres usually going to be a bit of an issue in the not too distant future. Israel, Iran, South Africa US CCCP all had it, we payed for it. | |
| green_beret20 Posted on 18/9 11:18 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
I really do laugh at this image you periodically drum up of America as some kind of ticking time bomb Rebel. Its been MAD, Mutual Assured Destruction, that has kept the world in relative peace, albeit partly from a county whose silos have remained quiet forty years. If you really were concerned about the plight of the world then surly you'd be more concerned with the problem of third world countries (with far more dubious religious beliefs) obtaining nuclear weapons where to some, Mutual Assured Destruction, is some kind of romantic notion. If your looking for strange political beliefs that will bring doom to the world you’ll easily find them in all walks of life. Greenpeace for example, infiltrated by far left idealists against capitalism, thought it would be a great idea to campaign against the use of chlorine, despite the fact its a cornerstone of Water purification. This resulted in a cholera epidemic in Peru 1991 that cost thousands of lives. The same thing can be said for DDT, where initially it was used with great effect to combat mosquitoes spreading malaria, typhus, etc. Again, in their plight to rid the world of capitalism, they had it banned on the basis it thinned egg shells. So now we have the thicker bird eggs at the mere cost of the epidemic spread of malaria. --- Post edited by green_beret20 on 18/9 11:20 --- | |
| beeline Posted on 18/9 11:25 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
" There's a rather amusing (to me at least) clip which shows the point at which a cardboard cutout of George W Bush is brought out and the kids reverently touch its hands. " " it's hands ". Ha, you've noticed too Eddie. The man is an android. The experiment is coming to a head - what's 2000 years to our immortal voyeurs? oops spelling. --- Post edited by beeline on 18/9 11:33 --- | |
| beeline Posted on 18/9 11:30 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
I don't want to divert the direction of the thread, but you ought to change the color of your beret if you really think the only side effect of DDT was to thin egg shells. Talk about grasping at straws. | |
| peako_from_the_boro Posted on 18/9 11:31 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
Green - B America as a whole is not a ticking time bomb and no one really ever suggests it is. Its a great place with many fine communities and individuals. However "America" does get used as shorthand when describing what end up being smallish groups with access that massively over-represents bizare yet extremely dangerous views on issues that impact upon all of us outside of the borders of the USA. Take global-warming. To this cult of end-dayers, global warming doesn't matter as when the rapture comes they will all be carried away by the tooth fairy or something similar and the rest of us unbelievers will be left behind, so they argue that white is black and use their findings to influence USA policy regarding Kyoto. | |
| littlejimmy Posted on 18/9 11:41 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
Oh, God. Don't get him started on Global Warming. We'll be here all day. And if you start on about the US using nukes in WW2.... | |
| Eddie_Catflap Posted on 18/9 11:43 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
 beeline. I bought a microswitch keyboard on ebay to improve my typing and it's causing me no end of grief. George is indeed a robot of sorts as this video proves.
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| Link: Google video | |
| green_beret20 Posted on 18/9 11:44 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
Why was is it grasping at straw beeline? Do you regard the banning of DDT successful then? Maybe a quick travel to Africa may chnage your mind. | |
| green_beret20 Posted on 18/9 11:52 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
Hello by the way Jimmy. I see your new start in Dubai is going well, i.e. sat on your ar*e infront of the computer screen. | |
| Eddie_Catflap Posted on 18/9 11:52 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
Didn't the DDT ban mainly arise from some book published in the early 60's? | |
| littlejimmy Posted on 18/9 11:54 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
Hello, GB. It's called "working". | |
| Eddie_Catflap Posted on 18/9 11:58 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
Interesting article on Wikipedia about DDT actually. | |
| Link: wikipedia | |
| littlejimmy Posted on 18/9 12:00 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
Maybe the USA banned DDT to stop Africa becoming an economic powerhouse... *taps nose* | |
| green_beret20 Posted on 18/9 12:05 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
Its amazing how off course a thread gets when the left receives criticisms, because as we all should they, they're as clean as an Imam's bed sheets. What about the ban on chlorine example too, was that a good idea? | |
| Eddie_Catflap Posted on 18/9 12:22 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
Don't know if you're including me in that GB (I wouldn't consider myself left or right really). I'm quite a fan of capitalism. I was more interested in your claim that DDT was banned as a result of anti capitalism whereas I thought the controversy over DDT had started before the rise of that movement. | |
| beeline Posted on 18/9 12:43 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
Funny video eddie, "OK, let's boot up the robot". G-B, the "clutching at straws" comment was for you managing to link Greenpeace, far left idealists and their plight to rid the world of capitalism with the ban on DDT. You don't know me so you don't know my politics - I'm a political atheist if you'd really like to know. Jeez, must type slower. --- Post edited by beeline on 18/9 12:45 --- | |
| green_beret20 Posted on 18/9 12:49 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
Oh yes it was in the beginning but certainly the preceding arguments to this day have been diluted as their ideals changed. Going slightly off topic, according to the Greenpeace 227 people died by production, transport, industrial and municipal use of chlorine in the last hundred years all over the world. So apparently this was reason enough to warrant them to campaign for a world wide ban, to which Peru followed and subsequently had a cholera epidemic. DDT does have some negative effects but they’re whole campaign seemed to fall short when they compared it to nothing. Apparently the advice they give out now to people is to use nets. Just how somehow is supposed to eat, crap, p*ss, drink, etc with a net draped over them is somehow quite ridiculous. | |
| red_rebel2 Posted on 18/9 13:28 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
So should I set the video then? | |
| peako_from_the_boro Posted on 18/9 13:45 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
Yes | |
| Lefty3668 Posted on 18/9 14:00 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
'Its amazing how off course a thread gets when the left receives criticisms' Am I reading this thread right then? Because I thought it was Green_Beret himself who twice took us all on a sight seeing excursion from the original topic. | |
| moxzin Posted on 18/9 14:23 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
Not really sure what it is I'm supposed to be replying to or defending? Of course I've got big criticism for ideologies based on centuries old texts that believe in final battles which will one day lead to paradise on Earth. And religions, too. | |
| Revol_Tees Posted on 18/9 14:31 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
Lefty Yep, my thoughts exactly.
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| red_rebel2 Posted on 18/9 14:32 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
Good one  I'm not making you responsible for anything (although I know you like to push all the evils of Stalin, Pol Pot and David Aaronovich onto me). I just wondered if, as it is your bag, whether you had seen it and had an informed opinion. You know if there was a critical documentary about my lads I would give an honest assessment. --- Post edited by red_rebel2 on 18/9 14:42 --- | |
| LiamO Posted on 18/9 15:49 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
Interesting side note on the DDT debate - three days ago the World Health Organisation (WHO) reversed some of its earlier caution on the use of DDT against malarial mosquitoes. "The scientific and programmatic evidence clearly supports this reassessment," said Dr Anarfi Asamoa-Baah, WHO assistant director-general for HIV/AIDS, TB and Malaria. "DDT presents no health risk when used properly." "Indoor residual spraying is useful to quickly reduce the number of infections caused by malaria-carrying mosquitoes; it has proven to be just as cost effective as other malaria prevention measures, and DDT presents no health risk when used properly." "Of the dozen insecticides WHO has approved as safe for house spraying, the most effective is DDT," said Arata Kochi, director of the WHO's Global Malaria Programme. | |
| Link: WHO backs DDT for malaria control | |
| riverboat_captain Posted on 18/9 16:02 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
There was a letter in the Guardian last week talking about that Road to 9/11 documentary that was shown on C4. It turns out that the people who made the film are Christian Fundamentalists. Not only that, but apparently, when the film was shown on American TV there were no sponsors or commercial breaks (unprecedented in the US), begging the question; Who paid for it? Also, a support package backing the documentary is being sent out to schools throughout the US, which ain't cheap. The only conclusion is that the Government are supporting the whole thing. They say that moderate muslims in this country should stand up and be counted but what about moderate Christians in America? | |
| green_beret20 Posted on 18/9 16:50 | |
| re: Christain Fundementalism and Armegeddon | |
I was just drawing comparisons to where fundamentalists and unusual theories are found in many institutions, even in supposedly good left wing causes as Greenpeace. If other people wanted to expand on that how is that my fault? | |
