permalink for this thread : http://search.catflaporama.com/post/browse/531164056
Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 11:49
I'm an Atheist....

What religion are you?

boroboy75 Posted on 18/9 11:50
re: I'm an Atheist....

Thanks for sharing that interesting piece of information.

Spoff_MFC Posted on 18/9 11:50
re: I'm an Atheist....

Jedi

coheadboro Posted on 18/9 11:52
re: I'm an Atheist....

I'm a christian but I don't believe in God.

I guess that makes me an Atheist.

However I will get my children christened so that they can marry in a church

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 11:52
re: I'm an Atheist....

You're welcome boroboy, I thought it would enlighten your morning for you.

the_broken_fridge Posted on 18/9 11:53
re: I'm an Atheist....

I'm a member of the Super Adventure Club.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 11:53
re: I'm an Atheist....

What do you do in the Super Adventure Club?

boro_bliss Posted on 18/9 11:54
re: I'm an Atheist....

Proud to be an atheist.

Spoff_MFC Posted on 18/9 11:54
re: I'm an Atheist....

Cohead, you don't have to be christened to be married in a church.

That was the only reason I allowed my son to be christened. I felt it was hypocritical as I don't beleive it.

The day before we went to the viceridge and that was one of the things the vicar said.

the_broken_fridge Posted on 18/9 11:54
re: I'm an Atheist....

Travel the world rogering young boys. With Darth Chef.

SouthernSmogette Posted on 18/9 11:55
re: I'm an Atheist....

Fenian Popeist

Marlon_D Posted on 18/9 11:56
re: I\'m an Atheist....

Does it matter.

Stepper_T Posted on 18/9 11:57
re: I'm an Atheist....

Branch Davidian

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 11:58
re: I'm an Atheist....

Course it matters, you short sleeved muslim.

Marlon_D Posted on 18/9 12:00
re: I\'m an Atheist....

And why does it you fat, black and white Methodist ?

prepman Posted on 18/9 12:02
re: I'm an Atheist....

who gives a fook what you are.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 12:03
re: I\'m an Atheist....

Because it shows the origins of your small clothes and where you originate from......Maybe.

UndercoverElephant Posted on 18/9 12:03
re: I\'m an Atheist....

I'm an Epicurean.

--- Post edited by UndercoverElephant on 18/9 12:09 ---

boroboy75 Posted on 18/9 12:04
re: I\'m an Atheist....

<Adds 'atheist' to Lisbonlegend's characteristics, above attention seekingtwat>

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 12:05
re: I\'m an Atheist....

So you admit you're stalking me.....

Rumple_Stiltskin Posted on 18/9 12:06
re: I\'m an Atheist....

Gibbonism

Marlon_D Posted on 18/9 12:07
re: I\\\'m an Atheist....

And when did a Panda have to declare it was non-religous?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 12:08
re: I\\\'m an Atheist....

When it upset the muslims by eating bamboo.

bororeddaz Posted on 18/9 12:08
re: I\'m an Atheist....

I always thought Atheist was a title given to people who didnt have enough intellect to form an opinion on the meaning of life

Marlon_D Posted on 18/9 12:09
re: I\\\\\\\'m an Atheist....

And when did Muslims declare the Bamboo shoot a sacred food for peckish pandas ?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 12:11
re: I\'m an Atheist....

I think you might be right Reddaz cos all the religios folk are right brainy buggers.

When george Bush built the white house out of bamboo Marlon.

littlejimmy Posted on 18/9 12:15
re: I\'m an Atheist....

No, reddaz, religion was invented by people who didn't have the intellect to try and understand or explain the meaning of life. The bonus feature was the populace-controlling property. A BOGOF, if you please, found on the shelves at an Asda near you.

bororeddaz Posted on 18/9 12:17
re: I\'m an Atheist....

So you will be telling your boss that you'll be working over Christmas as you dont believe in it LL?

bororeddaz Posted on 18/9 12:18
re: I\'m an Atheist....

So you know the meaning of life LJ?

Smifter Posted on 18/9 12:18
re: I\'m an Atheist....

If this is a serious thread, I would consider myself to be a Christian.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 12:20
re: I\'m an Atheist....

Yes Reddaz, just as I'll be complaining about the banks having daylong holidays at odd intervals. It's an outrage.

Anyhow, I believe in Father Christmas.

--- Post edited by Lisbonlegend on 18/9 12:24 ---

littlejimmy Posted on 18/9 12:23
re: I\'m an Atheist....

Reddaz - sure I do - the answer to the meaning of life, the universe and everything is 42.

Actually, there is no meaning. It's just a big cosmic fluke. Or a little one if we're the only inhabited planet. Which I don't think we are, but that's another debate altogether. Or is it?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 12:25
re: I\'m an Atheist....

Course it's a serious thread smifter. Are you a practising Christian?

Smifter Posted on 18/9 12:26
re: I\'m an Atheist....

I do Christmas and eat Easter eggs, does that count?

bororeddaz Posted on 18/9 12:27
re: I\'m an Atheist....

You keep forgetting to type 'in my opinion' LJ
some people feel they have found the meaning of life in their chosen religion

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 12:29
re: I\'m an Atheist....

I'm an atheist and I do that aswell so no, it doesn't count. Do you pray?

Smifter Posted on 18/9 12:30
re: I\'m an Atheist....

Erm not recently, but I do have some Christian beliefs (or would like to hope some are true), just so that I can enjoy my life better.

zaphod Posted on 18/9 12:30
re: I\'m an Atheist....

What's the upside of atheism? Does it make you feel intellectually superior, even though it requires as much faith as any religion?

bororeddaz Posted on 18/9 12:32
re: I\'m an Atheist....

I think what LL is trying to say is he is a non practising christian.
Its what most of us are

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 12:33
re: I\'m an Atheist....

Requires as much faith? I'm a scientist so I like to have evidence for me to believe in something. Why does religion have to be linked to intellect zaphod or where you trying to belittle me?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 12:37
re: I\'m an Atheist....

No Reddaz, I'm an atheist but I'm not going to turn down chocolate and free presents am I.

littlejimmy Posted on 18/9 12:39
re: I\'m an Atheist....

OK, IMHO. Fair point, reddaz. I assumed it was taken as read, since I didn't put FACT! at the end.

In all honesty, I'm more of an agnostic than an atheist. I want one of those posters that Mulder had in his basement office, which said "I WANT TO BELIEVE".

LL, you've lit the blue touch-paper. Prepare to be zaphoded.

bororeddaz Posted on 18/9 12:40
re: I\'m an Atheist....

a true atheist would, so that makes you a bit of a shitty atheist

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 12:42
re: I\'m an Atheist....

Hmmmm, shitty atheist or maybe a very clever Atheist who can enjoy the perks of other religions and still not really care.

bororeddaz Posted on 18/9 12:47
re: I'm an Atheist....

I think nail and head LJ
Religion is (imho) a very personal thing and organised religion is in itself pretty evil as it is and always has been based on money and power.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 12:49
re: I'm an Atheist....

Why be religious if we're all going to die anyway, regardless?

bororeddaz Posted on 18/9 12:53
re: I'm an Atheist....

"enjoy the perks of other religions"
So does that mean you will be celebrating Ganesh Chaturthi,Shawwal and Rosh Hashanah or are you a racist atheist

zaphod Posted on 18/9 12:53
re: I\'m an Atheist....

Atheism is the belief that there definitely is no God. There is inadequate physical evidence to determine whether God exists or not. As a scientist, you should know that a lack of evidence is not conclusive. For example, you have no hard evidence that I have 2 children, but I'm sure you wouldn't think that meant I didn't have 2 children.

bororeddaz Posted on 18/9 12:56
re: I'm an Atheist....

"Why be religious if we're all going to die anyway, regardless?"
Thats what religion is about, the faith that you will have eternal life, have 12 virgins laid on for you in heaven etc. etc

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 12:59
re: I'm an Atheist....

I believe that there is definitely no god but if someone proved to me there was then I could change my mind. I wouldn't believe that you had two children simply because you told me you had two children but the possibility is there. I don't believe there's a possibility that god exists as there are far too many contradictions.

Smifter Posted on 18/9 13:01
re: I'm an Atheist....

I am not sure whether God exists or not, but I would like to believe that there is something after death, to help me grieve and overcome things that go wrong in life, and for when you lose a loved one. I think that still makes me Christian.

Smifter Posted on 18/9 13:04
re: I'm an Atheist....

I think I went too serious on this thread...

As you were...

LoremIpsum Posted on 18/9 13:11
re: I'm an Atheist....

I am an atheist, but I do not tell Christians that - Christians have, over the years, demonstrated a penchant for killing atheists.

zaphod Posted on 18/9 13:23
re: I'm an Atheist....

But atheists have displayed a much greater penchant for killing Christians (Soviet Union, Communist China, Revolutionary France etc.)

LoremIpsum Posted on 18/9 13:24
re: I'm an Atheist....

Not this atheist - and it is my safety I care about.

littlejimmy Posted on 18/9 13:26
re: I'm an Atheist....

I always wondered about this deal with the virgins. Are the virgins in heavens women who have died as virgins, or are they specially-selected women who have never been given an earthly body? If they are earthly women who died as virgins, wouldn't that mean that most of them were complete and utter munters?

LoremIpsum Posted on 18/9 13:35
re: I'm an Atheist....

I think that they are the "Mary" kind of virgin.

grantus Posted on 18/9 13:40
re: I'm an Atheist....

I am an agnostic man.

I've never really got the atheist brigade.

As nobody can truly define with evidence who or what god is, yet the human race in all forms is touched by religion, it seems a silly notion to decide that god in some form or another is completely impossible and does not exist.

God takes many guises.

The circle of life, mother nature, the bloke on the cloud, the elephant headed fella, Zeus.

God evolves, but to dismiss some force, some intellegence, some something, seems narrow minded and not particulary thoughful.

I'm not going to get started on religious people just now.

zaphod Posted on 18/9 13:41
re: I'm an Atheist....

LL, it sounds like you're more an agnostic than an atheist.

I wasn't trying to take the piss. I just find atheism (as opposed to agnosticism) a bit baffling: you couldn't be certain of the non-existence of God even if there wasn't one and there don't seem to be any benefits to being an atheist. You have at least a potential upside to believing in a God.

LoremIpsum Posted on 18/9 13:44
re: I'm an Atheist....

To my mind, belief in a supreme being equates to believing that Saturn's moons are made of marzipan. I can prove neither suggestion either way.

I gain nothing directly by believing or disbelieving in a supreme being but, indirectly, I gain freedom of thought.

grantus Posted on 18/9 13:47
re: I'm an Atheist....

Supreme being?

What's that?

What about Mother Nature?

I dont think you've really put your mind to the possibilities of what god actually could be lisbon.

Think more a force of nature than a bloke with a chess set.

UndercoverElephant Posted on 18/9 13:50
re: I'm an Atheist....

I'm always baffled by people who say, "I belive in god, just in case it's true". The way I work is, "I do what makes me happy, therefore I'm happy".

LoremIpsum Posted on 18/9 13:51
re: I'm an Atheist....

"Mother Nature" is simply primitive anthropomorphism.

rick4974 Posted on 18/9 13:52
re: I'm an Atheist....

i'm a jedi master

grantus Posted on 18/9 13:56
re: I'm an Atheist....

How is it?

Mother Nature is the circle of life, not some old sheila in a green dress.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 14:00
re: I'm an Atheist....

If god exists then why did he put my brother through so much suffering and take the life of his daughter. There's no evidence to prove that he does exist so in my opinion he definitely does not exist and religion is a load of rubbish.

grantus, why does it seem narrow minded to believe that there's no superior being out there? To believe that you must have confined your beliefs to the fact that everything revolves around the planet earth, which it most certainly does not. It's fantasy land....

grantus Posted on 18/9 14:03
re: I'm an Atheist....

Lisbon, I never said superior being, I never said the bible, or the koran, my view is that if there is a god as such, it will not be in the traditional sense of the word.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 14:04
re: I'm an Atheist....

So basically your argument is that this supreme being could be anything or anyone? I think we all know you're talking about me.

grantus Posted on 18/9 14:06
re: I'm an Atheist....



That's the funniest thing you've said for a while mush.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 14:12
re: I'm an Atheist....

I wasn't joking....

bororeddaz Posted on 18/9 14:13
re: I'm an Atheist....

So LL
Are you going to retract your statement, as it is now clear you are not an atheist?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 14:15
re: I'm an Atheist....

Of course I'm an atheist, please prove otherwise.

piggy_nichol Posted on 18/9 14:20
re: I'm an Atheist....

What about the devil then? Where do people stand on that?

When I was at sunday school we were taught that he was an angel that went a bit bad and got his marching orders. He always seemed a bit more powerful than an angel to me though, but not quite at Gods level.

Since I left sunday school thirty odd years ago I get the impression that he doesnt have much credibility these days. So can you believe in God but not the devil?

And what about the tooth fairy?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 14:27
re: I'm an Atheist....

I know the devil personally and the tooth fairy is a right tart.

bororeddaz Posted on 18/9 14:27
re: I'm an Atheist....

Because us dumb mortals have to have everything in a physical form.
Lets have this evil guy who is going to burn everybody if they dont follow our religion and pay us some money

Lefty3668 Posted on 18/9 14:30
re: I'm an Atheist....

There were some scarey tooth fairies in your house bororeddaz.

bororeddaz Posted on 18/9 14:31
re: I'm an Atheist....

Everything has to have an opposite
good/evil
jedi/the dark side
god/devil
Boro/Sunderland

zamboni80 Posted on 18/9 14:32
re: I'm an Atheist....

can you explain how an atheist can celebrate the birth of the son of a god you believe doesn't exist? or the ressurection of christ? surley that means your just an idiot that turns up to a party uninvited and scoffs all the goodys, this makes you a parasite not an atheist

--- Post edited by zamboni80 on 18/9 14:33 ---

bororeddaz Posted on 18/9 14:33
re: I'm an Atheist....

people shouldnt mess with tooth fairies, if they don't know what they're doing.
You need the right equipment and accommodation

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 14:35
re: I'm an Atheist....

Since when was christmas the celebration of the birth of the son of god? It's just an excuse for a few days off work.

bororeddaz Posted on 18/9 14:39
re: I'm an Atheist....

So why don't you take time off for Muslim festivals?

zaphod Posted on 18/9 14:39
re: I'm an Atheist....

Your relatives' suffering does not prove that God does not exist, LL. But it does show that God, if he exists, does not act as you would wish. Most Christians have to face up to this at some stage.

zamboni80 Posted on 18/9 14:40
re: I'm an Atheist....

just the reply I expected, give your head a shake and try and come up with something a little higher up the intellect scale than toddler (if you can)

bororeddaz Posted on 18/9 14:45
re: I'm an Atheist....

I think you need to take some time out, to ask yourself what you actually believe in and what is important to you and to also challenge your beliefs to see if they stand up.
Then you can start making statements like
'Im a.......'
although I can save you the effort

'I'm a perverted twaat'

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 14:45
re: I'm an Atheist....

Reddaz - Cos my company decides when my holidays are.

Zaphod - Just because people say there is a god why do I have to believe them? There is nothing in this life that makes me beleve that god exists.

Zamboni - Sorry old man, I'll try to come up with a response fitting of such an articulate poster who uses the analogy of an idiot scoffing peoples food at parties. I do it to fit in, is that a good enough reason for you?

UndercoverElephant Posted on 18/9 14:48
re: I'm an Atheist....

The 25th December is not the birth date of Christ, it was a Roman festival which was hijacked, which in turn was originally a Pagan festival.

Celebrating Christmas as an Athiest, is not about celebrating the birth of Christ - it's about having a bright spot in the middle of winter and enjoying time with your family. They may see it as a religeous holiday, that's up to them.

--- Post edited by UndercoverElephant on 18/9 14:49 ---

zamboni80 Posted on 18/9 14:59
re: I'm an Atheist....

Your about 20 years my senior OLD FELLA, I'm just curious as to how someone can partake in a celebration of the birth of christ (regardless of his exact D.O.B this is what it is) without having some belief, as a child its about the prezzies but as an adult if you don't have any belief behind the meaning of this holiday then that also makes you a hypocrite

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 15:05
re: I'm an Atheist....

20 years your senior? Are you 10 years old?

Since when has Christmas been about the birth of christ. It's origins may have been there but I'm afraid that the holiday is a whirlwind away from your perception. I celebrate it with my family, because they're not atheists (cept for my brother) and I don't wish to spoil their enjoyment. There's nothing hypocritical abou tit, I just don't care or even think about god when I'm enjoying spending time with my family.

Are you religious Zamboni because you seem to be a bit of a cocky upstart who likes to preach to people.

UndercoverElephant Posted on 18/9 15:06
re: I'm an Atheist....

Which makes you eleven. Figures. Like I said, it's not about that to me. I don't believe in it. Never have, even as a young kid.

grantus Posted on 18/9 15:06
re: I'm an Atheist....

Churches aren't all exactly ram packed at midnight mass and on christmas day, are they?

If you think that christmas is owned by christianity, then you are deluded.

Christmas is only such a huge occassion because of commercialism, consumerism and advertising. If is was simply a religious celebration. Most people wouldn;t give a toss I'm afraid.

Those of us who are not religious use Christmas (due to the number of days annual leave) as a time to be reunited with loved ones, to go 'home' to see friends, to be merry and catch up with folk, to feast and drink.

Jesus has got nothing to do with it.

zaphod Posted on 18/9 15:07
re: I'm an Atheist....

Elephant, you're just repeating a myth. Christmas was first celebrated as a festival in Egypt and they eventually decided on December 25th after switching the dates around a bit. It had nothing to do with Roman festivals or midwinter etc.

UndercoverElephant Posted on 18/9 15:10
re: I'm an Atheist....

Talking of the Roman Festival of Sol Invictus (25th December)...

"It was a custom of the Pagans to celebrate on the same 25 December the birthday of the Sun, at which they kindled lights in token of festivity. In these solemnities and revelries the Christians also took part. Accordingly when the doctors of the Church perceived that the Christians had a leaning to this festival, they took counsel and resolved that the true Nativity should be solemnised on that day." (cited in "Christianity and Paganism in the Fourth to Eighth Centuries", Ramsay MacMullen. Yale:1997, p155)

grantus Posted on 18/9 15:10
re: I'm an Atheist....

Whose face will you see more of on the lead up to Christmas, Santa Claus or Jesus?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 15:14
re: I'm an Atheist....

The Mighty Morphin Power Rangers.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 15:34
re: I'm an Atheist....

Ok, Santa cos Jesus doesnt exist.

bororeddaz Posted on 18/9 15:36
re: I'm an Atheist....

Jesus doesn't exist? nice one, I nearly bit then

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 15:38
re: I'm an Atheist....

and he never did.

Smifter Posted on 18/9 15:40
re: I'm an Atheist....

Grantus I understand your point I really do, and Christmas is now mainly about commercial reasons, but for some it isnt.

My family tend to go to church on christmas eve, and try to every year get to church on christmas day, for some people it is still important.

I dont know whether there is a god or an eternal life, I just think its nice to think that, and a comfort for when loved ones die.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 15:41
re: I'm an Atheist....

In what way is it comforting when loved ones die, especially when they are taken from you before their time?

--- Post edited by Lisbonlegend on 18/9 15:41 ---

Smifter Posted on 18/9 15:43
re: I'm an Atheist....

Ok I dont want to really go into anything that might offend anyone, but for me as a personal thing, its a comfort, to think their life wasnt a waste and that they are in a better place.

towz Posted on 18/9 15:45
re: I'm an Atheist....

If had to be religious i'd be a pagan. you get to dance about and take drugs and howl at the moon and stuff

grantus Posted on 18/9 15:46
re: I'm an Atheist....

Smifter. I don't mean to be offensive to any religion. I'm simply stating that Christmas is now the biggest commercial event of the year and that has nothing to do with Jesus Christ anymore.

So to say a non Christian shouldn't celebrate is rediculous. Particularly as it's a national holiday.

For those who are religious I say good luck to them and I hope that they were right, that they chose the right religion and that they lived a good life.

For those that aren't religious, I say good luck, I hope that they were right and that they lived a a good life.

As you see, it's irrelevent to me, but in certain ways I do envy the religious man as I understand that their faith gives them something bigger, something comforting and safe, it gives them an answer to a very scary question.

I hope that it is not a case of ignorance is bliss.

lisbon "especially when they are taken from you before their time?" Unfortunately, when someone goes, that is their time, nomatter how young or old they are, how healthy or infirm, how alone or loved. When we all go, it is our time.

--- Post edited by grantus on 18/9 15:47 ---

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 15:47
re: I'm an Atheist....

Born again Christians make me sick, preaching their drivel as if they are a higher power and looking down on people. They are as bad as thesse lunatic muslims, thinking they know everything. Misplaced religion is destroying the world. Doing things because of an invisible power and using it ot their own ends.

Absolute drivel. People will all have their own perceptions on god simply because he doesn't exist.

Smifter Posted on 18/9 15:48
re: I'm an Atheist....

Grantus sometimes you speak some sense. Lisbon I hope you werent referring to me there.

grantus Posted on 18/9 15:49
re: I'm an Atheist....

Imagine a born again christian who is also an ex smoker. *shudder*

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 15:50
re: I'm an Atheist....

No, I wasn't Smifter. I hate these righteous do gooders who think they know everything, smarmy tosspots. They should get a life instead of telling other people how to live there's..

mufflar Posted on 18/9 15:51
re: I'm an Atheist....

Im dont really hold a faith but I do like Songs of Praise, I watch it religiously every Sunday...

Smifter Posted on 18/9 15:52
re: I'm an Atheist....

OK well I wouldnt call myself a do-gooder, and I dont preach on what they should believe in. I know what works for me, and how I can use it to make me happy and cope with certain issues.

mufflar Posted on 18/9 15:55
re: I'm an Atheist....

Lisbon - "Prudence is the ugly old maid courted by incapacity"

Maybe some faith could help you deal with some of your 'life issues'...

zamboni80 Posted on 18/9 15:56
re: I'm an Atheist....

my beliefs are none of your concern or anyone eles I'm not the one on here bragging about having or not having beliefs neither am I am preching I asked you a question that you eventually answered and I expressed my opinion on you, none of that can be considered as me being cocky. You have your (none) beliefs and thats fine but to me anyone who thinks that this existence is the be all and end all of this world is taking a very blinkered view on things.







okay your only 5 years older than me

GOD BE WITH YOU

--- Post edited by zamboni80 on 18/9 15:58 ---

bororeddaz Posted on 18/9 15:56
re: I'm an Atheist....

I thought you only watched that to whack off over Thora Hird

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 15:56
re: I'm an Atheist....

Smifter, I don't have a problem with you and your beliefs cos that's up to you. I have a problem with people who want to tell me what I should believe in. It's my choice and if I choose not to believe in an imaginery god or gods then that's entirely up to me.

Smifter Posted on 18/9 16:00
re: I'm an Atheist....

Yeah I understand what you are saying, yet some people do believe, so for you to say that they are "imaginary" etc could be offensive to some. It doesnt offend me, I say believe in what you want to, but everyone should respect what others believe in.

My Grandad was a religious man, and passed away when I was younger, I like to believe a bit, as it helps me not to be upset as much. As it happened my grandfather died on Christmas Day, I think thats why I still consider Christmas to be a religious time.

--- Post edited by Smifter on 18/9 16:01 ---

mufflar Posted on 18/9 16:01
re: I'm an Atheist....

BRD - No thats last of the summer wine..

bororeddaz Posted on 18/9 16:01
re: I'm an Atheist....

LL it is quite obvious that you are either having a laugh or are very very ignorant to religion.
To actually think that Jesus never existed is hilarious.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 16:01
re: I'm an Atheist....

Zamboni, when did I brag about not believing in god. I find it very condescending that you can come on here and call me a paraiste and slag me off for my views and say that I ha the intellect of a toddler. You come across as an arrogant know it all and have not even put your opinions forward for scrutiny, you simply attack other people's beliefs, or lack of them.

UndercoverElephant Posted on 18/9 16:02
re: I'm an Atheist....

I actually love it when people try to press their views on me, good luck to them.

mufflar Posted on 18/9 16:04
re: I'm an Atheist....

Judge and ye shall be judged - thats what it says in the bible!

But it also says that you will be judged by God in the end anyway, so you might as well just judge away?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 16:05
re: I'm an Atheist....

Smifter, in my view teh use of the word imaginery is correct and I make no apology if it causes offence. The same way people who believe in it make no apology for their beliefs.

Reddaz, explain please why it is hilarious.

LoremIpsum Posted on 18/9 16:07
re: I'm an Atheist....

bororeddaz - Jesus existed? As a real person? Really?

The evidence, or should I say the absolute, utter and total lack of any contemporary evidence (and contemporary should be underlined there) suggests not.

bororeddaz Posted on 18/9 16:08
re: I'm an Atheist....

Its like saying Hitler never existed.
Jesus existed that is fact.
Whether he was divine, a mere prophet or an out and out conman is open for discussion

LoremIpsum Posted on 18/9 16:11
re: I'm an Atheist....

There is documentary evidence that Hitler existed, contemporary from his point of view. People actually met him.

Neither of this criteria applies to Jesus.

bororeddaz Posted on 18/9 16:14
re: I'm an Atheist....

Ok sorry.
I'm wrong
I thought The koran and the bible might be 2 different documents that might indicate a guy called Jesus existed.

zamboni80 Posted on 18/9 16:17
re: I'm an Atheist....

maybe bragging was the wrong description, your trying to belittle peoples beliefs to back up your lack of them, if my comparison of you to a parasite offends you then theres not much I can do about that.

for the record I'm christian

--- Post edited by zamboni80 on 18/9 16:18 ---

red_rebel2 Posted on 18/9 16:17
re: I'm an Atheist....

Man invents God/s in his own image. God is not a constant. Religion is a social construct used to justify the existing system and is modified as neccessary as society changes.

mufflar Posted on 18/9 16:20
re: I'm an Atheist....

Red Rebel - do you and your cronies actually talk like that in real life or do you save the prose for the impressionable audience on the internet?

I would also use quotation marks when lifting someone else's thinking...

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 16:22
re: I'm an Atheist....

Zamboni - At which point did I try and belittle peoples beliefs? It didn't offend me, it just made you look like a bit of an arrogant prat.

Are you a practising Christian?

zaphod Posted on 18/9 16:22
re: I'm an Atheist....

Most of the New Testament is written by people who knew Jesus. It is also pretty contemporary (20 to 40 years after his crucifixion). The Quran was written 600 years later, so doesn't amount to evidence. Even Josephus writing a Jewish apologia some years later didn't claim Jesus didn't exist.

bororeddaz Posted on 18/9 16:23
re: I'm an Atheist....

Im shocked you know the bible mufflar
i always had you down as a devout muslim

grantus Posted on 18/9 16:25
re: I'm an Atheist....

It amazes me how people are incapable of having a chat about religion without getting upset and insulting each other.

Sums it up for me really.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 16:26
re: I'm an Atheist....

Exactly grantus.

LoremIpsum Posted on 18/9 16:28
re: I'm an Atheist....

Factually wrong on all points there, Zaphod.

The New Testament, or should I say those writings that have been accepted as the "canon" were primarily written between 200 and 300 CE. The exception, Mark, was half-written around 80CE

The reference in Josephus's texts is a later insertion. Were it not, Christian scholars writing before 300 CE would have used it as "evidence" that Jesus existed. The fact that they didn't and that it is stylistically different to the rest of the text, together with the fact that, if the offending passage is removed, the story continues without change of subject, proves that it is fake.

mufflar Posted on 18/9 16:28
re: I'm an Atheist....

I was going to go outside and burn an effigy of Lisbon but I couldnt afford that much lighter fluid ;-)

zaphod Posted on 18/9 16:28
re: I'm an Atheist....

mufflar, please don't make fun of r_r's faith. He's just explaining the creed according to the Marxist religion. And you really do have to have a huge amount of faith and an ability to ignore reality to be a Marxist.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 16:29
re: I'm an Atheist....

Well you'd have a big enough fuse.

zaphod Posted on 18/9 16:42
re: I'm an Atheist....

LoremIpsum, you peddle the most amazing tripe and claim it as fact.

There are even fragments of Paul's letters dating from much earlier than you claim they were written. The internal evidence in Galatians suggests a really early date, too.

People were quoting from many books of the New Testament as early as 95 AD. There was a big dispute about which books were canonical in 140AD. etc. etc.

bororeddaz Posted on 18/9 16:50
re: I'm an Atheist....

I thought gospel of Luke was dated 70ce

LoremIpsum Posted on 18/9 16:54
re: I'm an Atheist....

Zaphod - 95 CE is not "20 - 40 years" after the "death" of Jesus.

As I said, the earliest NT text is Mark - and that dates to around 80 CE.

As for the letters of Paul - probably 90% of these are later additions and amendments. Paul's position, if you remove the later additions, seems to be that "Jesus" was not an historical character but was, instead, a myth-man, son-of-god figure in the same way as Mithras, Osiris and dozens of other with extremely similar biographies.

Incidentally, most of these myth-men (and some date to around 1000 BCE) were born of virgins, did miracles, died for man's sins, were buried in a cave, rose after 3 days and, amazingly, were "born" on 25th December.

All of that is fact, just as my previous post is.

Long_Live_Zombies Posted on 18/9 16:55
re: I'm an Atheist....

I'm also a Jedi according to records.

My family recognise events in our culture that are 'celebrated' eg Easter - buy Easter egg for granddaughter but it has no religious meaning to me.

The two extremes I see are scientists and dreamers. I quite like the idea of believing in factual and proven things and others prefer to have 'faith'. I don't think there's anything wrong in that if that works for you. I do think there's a whole lot of wrong with people who follow a certain set of beliefs but do nothing like that.

I love Christmas Day. All the rest of the bullsh)t (that's started already - book your meal early) that leads up to it is spoiling the ocassion.

On the day,presents - the look on kids faces, pop to local pub in suit/tie etc, everyone is pleasant to each other, it's socially acceptable to have a drink, dinner, family FFS I'll have some of that

PS No more mentioning of Christmas now

bororeddaz Posted on 18/9 16:58
re: I'm an Atheist....

"pop to pub in shirt and tie"
Are you 75

zamboni80 Posted on 18/9 17:10
re: I'm an Atheist....

In my opinion saying that jesus doesn't exist is belittling those that belive however saying that you belive there is no god is your opinion and you are fully entitled to express it (there is a difference)

I consider myself a practising christian but that doesn't mean that I'm in the church all the time because I came to my beliefs off my own back and don't need to be told what to believe by any precher.

I'm sorry for whatever suffering your family has been through but I believe that god gave us life and what happens in it is beyond his controll, it would be expecting a bit much for him/her/it? to live our lives for us and protect us all from harm, wouldn't it?


do you really believe this (life not the FMTTM board) is all there is and nothing is beyond this existence?

theboydom Posted on 18/9 17:21
re: I'm an Atheist....

loremipsum

you wouldn't be alastasia by another name, would you, only he/she googled the same load of tripe up on another thread a few weeks ago and it was no less fantastical then either

exactly which learned biblical scholars are putting there name to this jesus as myth theory? i'll wager none as a start...

LoremIpsum Posted on 18/9 17:22
re: I'm an Atheist....

I fail to see how doubting the reality of Jesus is belittling anyone's beliefs.

People may choose to believe whatever they want to, but they should not state as fact things which are evidently not. To do so, invites argument.

My small son believes in Father Christmas. We may one day disabuse him of this belief but this will not belittle the opinion he had before.

Lefty3668 Posted on 18/9 17:22
re: I'm an Atheist....

LoremIpsum

Where do you get this information from?

I thought Matthew, Mark and Luke were all written circa AD80, which is about 40 years after Jesus crucifixion, while John was written about AD120.

Also, weren't there dozens of other gospels found at Qumran, many of which refer to Jesus?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 17:23
re: I'm an Atheist....

Well surely everything that I have said is my opinion. If they conflict with yours then why is that belittling you? I am happy that you are happy that you believe, I don't however.

With all due respect I don't beleive god did make us so it's an argument that I don't really want to get in to. In my eyes there is little evidence to support the fact that he did exist in comparison to the eveidence that he never.

I don't believe there is a heaven and hell if that's what you mean.

LoremIpsum Posted on 18/9 17:25
re: I'm an Atheist....

theboydom - I "google" very little. I read. I read a lot. I have, in fact, read several translations of the Bible and I've also read the Q'uran.

If you wish to "google" the scholars behind these historical facts, then please do so.

I'm a professional historian, for what it's worth. People pay me for my opinions about history and how history relates to the present day.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 17:28
re: I'm an Atheist....

Are you religious?

LoremIpsum Posted on 18/9 17:30
re: I'm an Atheist....

LL - are you asking me? No, not in the slightest.

My entire point, for what it's worth, is that Christianity, although its tenets are laudable, is simply a persistent belief in the actuality of a myth.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 17:34
re: I'm an Atheist....

Yes, you Lore.

Is Loremipsum a latin translation website?

zamboni80 Posted on 18/9 17:34
re: I'm an Atheist....

you stated jesus never existed as though you have proof but saying you don't believe he existed is expressing an opinion, I know I'm being pedantic but there is a difference between the two

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 17:37
re: I'm an Atheist....

Why do I need proof that someone didn't exist, surely it is up to someone to prove to me that he did exist.

zamboni80 Posted on 18/9 17:38
re: I'm an Atheist....

why do you need proof he doesn't? surley its up to you to prove he doesn't

littlejimmy Posted on 18/9 17:40
re: I'm an Atheist....

Er... what's all this CE nonsense? It was always AD (Anno Domini) when I was a lad.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 17:41
re: I'm an Atheist....

Because I'm the one that doesn't believe and you're the one that does.

samizdat Posted on 18/9 17:42
re: I'm an Atheist....

History teaches us that there are good people who do good things, and there are evil people who do evil things, but to get good people to do evil things, for that you need religion.

bororeddaz Posted on 18/9 17:42
re: I'm an Atheist....

CE Common Era
it stops upsetting people like our friend here

newholgate Posted on 18/9 17:44
re: I'm an Atheist....

Missed this lengthy debate earlier, but I'm Christian.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 17:46
re: I'm an Atheist....

It's still there nh, you can read it til your hearts content.

Lefty3668 Posted on 18/9 17:47
re: I'm an Atheist....

Some sources then,LoremIpsum?

littlejimmy Posted on 18/9 17:49
re: I'm an Atheist....

WHHAAAATTTTT????

COMMON ERA?

What kind of cobblers is that? I'm not a (practicing) Christian, and AD doesn't offend me! PC gone mad!

--- Post edited by littlejimmy on 18/9 17:50 ---

Lefty3668 Posted on 18/9 17:50
re: I'm an Atheist....

Is that Post Christ gone mad?

LoremIpsum Posted on 18/9 17:53
re: I'm an Atheist....

I decline to give sources to things I say here. Look it up.

There is a range of opinion, based on the evidence and the lack of evidence, as to the dating of the texts of the New Testament. As an historian, I simply apply my opinions and give you the benefit of them. It is then up to you to form your own opinions, based on what you read and what you think. This is how the study of history works.

As for CE, it simply means "Current Era" or "Common Era" and is a secular way of saying, essentially, the same thing.

No, LoremIpsum is not a Latin-translation site

--- Post edited by LoremIpsum on 18/9 17:53 ---

bororeddaz Posted on 18/9 17:53
re: I'm an Atheist....

like it Lefty.
The name Christopher will be banned next, or become Opher

bororeddaz Posted on 18/9 17:54
re: I'm an Atheist....

Mythopher, now that has a ring

littlejimmy Posted on 18/9 17:56
re: I'm an Atheist....

I am "a follower of Christ" according to my name. Opher would be quite good. As in Get Opher, yer fat get.

piggy_nichol Posted on 18/9 17:58
re: I'm an Atheist....

I think its great when we get another expert in something.

What historical periods do you specialise in, Loremlpsum?

Just in case I need to do a FAO for help with homework etc.

LoremIpsum Posted on 18/9 18:01
re: I'm an Atheist....

piggy - my specialism is in early-Victorian England but the only time I give opinions away for nothing is when I feel like wasting a few hours winding people up on here.

The Christianity thing is now becoming old-hat but there are few areas which draw opinions as effectively - hence I sometimes come on and adopt one position or another.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 18/9 18:03
re: I'm an Atheist....

For a clever guy you could have picked a better username.

piggy_nichol Posted on 18/9 18:04
re: I'm an Atheist....

Is it easy to make a living as a early victorian historian? Are there many opportunities to get paid to give opinions?

Its a genuine question, I dont do piss-takes or cynicism.

Lefty3668 Posted on 18/9 18:05
re: I'm an Atheist....

LoremIpsum,

'Look it up'

Come now, I will do that, but you could point me in the right direction. As a historian you must have used sources to form your opinion. Why are you afraid to name one or two? It does nothing for your credibilty.

For all I know you may be a total crackpot with no credible sources or you may be a very biased historian leaping to some bizarre conclusions from creditable evidence.

Just being (or maybe just saying) that you are a paid historian does not add weight to your assertions if you are not prepared to volunteer some evidence or sources.

LoremIpsum Posted on 18/9 18:09
re: I'm an Atheist....

LL - LoremIpsum is perfect.

It's stolen from so-called "Lorem Ipsum text" - which is a meaningless collection of latin phrases designed to function as a filler (especially on websites). Its purpose is to make people view the layout, rather than read the content.

So, it's perfect for me, because most of what I say on here is rubbish - it just reflects the argument I feel like supporting at the time.

As for Christianity, etc. I am an atheist. I think that there is strong evidence to suggest that Jesus was not actually real and that the religion is just another mystery religion.

The rest are just "facts" which I use to back up the position I take. That is not to say they aren't actual facts, they simply represent one set of opinions across a spectrum of opinions.

LoremIpsum Posted on 18/9 18:13
re: I'm an Atheist....

Lefty - I think I've answered your questions in my last post.

Piggy - the pay is terrible - hence I have several irons in the fire.

piggy_nichol Posted on 18/9 18:15
re: I'm an Atheist....

I'm curious though as to the sort of people or organisations who pay for historical opinion.

TV, Radio?

Just general terms, I'm not looking to pinch your clients.

Lefty3668 Posted on 18/9 18:17
re: I'm an Atheist....


LoremIpsum Posted on 18/9 18:22
re: I'm an Atheist....

All sorts of organisations pay for historical opinions. One of the surprising ones - museums.

piggy_nichol Posted on 18/9 18:26
re: I'm an Atheist....

I see.

Thank you.

Nisko Posted on 18/9 19:08
re: I'm an Atheist....

Was brought up as a Catholic, but I lean much more towards being an enquiring agnostic. I certainly don't define myself by any belief system really.

Beyond believing in some sort of creator figure/God, I don't have any real strong beliefs. I certainly don't believe in the whole mechanics/process/concept of organised religion anymore, or at least not as the sort of straightjacket that every religion tries to be.

LoremIpsum Posted on 18/9 19:12
re: I'm an Atheist....

R.I.P. this thread

Further reading - one, easy-to-read, albeit repetitive book (which, though not without errors, might open a few eyes):

The Jesus Mysteries by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy

--- Post edited by LoremIpsum on 18/9 19:13 ---

theboydom Posted on 18/9 19:40
re: I'm an Atheist....

loremipsum

as you said yourself, "if you wish to "google" the scholars behind these historical facts, then please do so."

so...

"His book Jesus and the Lost Goddess was cited by Dan Brown as an inspiration for The Da Vinci Code."

from timothyfreke.com

obviously some clown got in first, registered a looney website in his name and than pointed all the www links in cyberspace referring to that book at it, then decided to take the joke further by citing this man of deep learning as an inspiration for a poorly researched thriller. dan brown didn't get in touch with you as well for his book did he?

Scrote Posted on 18/9 19:46
re: I'm an Atheist....

catholic and semi-practising

LoremIpsum Posted on 18/9 19:59
re: I'm an Atheist....

I haven't actually read "Jesus and the Lost Goddess" but the other one is well worth the read - as a sort of primer, if you like. "The Jesus Mysteries" certainly made a few enemies for the authors.

The problem with this area is that people have their own, vested interests at heart - so the research tends to follow three lines:

1. Christian - invariably dismissing all contrary evidence
2. Anti-Christian - placing emphasis on evidence that suits their puprose
3. Objective - trying to occupy the middle ground, with no pre-disposition

I like to think I'm objective but my own prejudices invariably affect my opinions. This is especially true with social history.

theboydom Posted on 18/9 20:20
re: I'm an Atheist....

loremipsum

as all christians are asked to examine anything purporting to be from god with a critical mind, i would be surprised if you found a scholarly christian mind that exhibited this outlook:

1. Christian - invariably dismissing all contrary evidence

it could be challenged on many fronts, not least for going aganst god's will. if you read the prefaces to any of your bible translations, you will have reams of heartsearching stuff by the translators and editors about how they decided on a certain way of translating their text.

there are however examples where very serious doubters have done long years of study trying to find evidence that would convince them that they could disprove the message/historicity of jesus and they have ended up converted christians. of course, the problem most sceptics have is that, despite it being the best sourced ancient book in the world, they refuse to accept the bible as evidence for the existence of god/jesus bit like asking someone to prove the existence of shakespeare without allowing for the fact that he wrote all those plays

LoremIpsum Posted on 18/9 20:28
re: I'm an Atheist....

Simplification caused by abbreviation.

I used the term "Christian" rather loosely. By it, I meant those who will not consider deviation from their "knowledge" - people who often take the Bible to be historical fact. There are many such people about, not least in America where many people believe, based on the so-called "Revelations", that we are now in the "end times" and that the world is about to end.

Nothing, but nothing, would change their ideas about their religion.

Fatsuma Posted on 18/9 20:28
re: I'm an Atheist....

It would appear that I'm a persistent believer in the actuality of a myth!

It's a bit like following the Boro really!

It would be much easier to follow Arsenal, Chelea or Man U.

Silly me!

Jastie Posted on 18/9 23:04
re: I'm an Atheist....

After reading this thread I thank God I'm an atheist.

And I'm amazed nobody told the joke about the agnostic, dyslexic insomniac. In the unlikely event that there is someone on here who hasn't heard it, he used to lie awake all night wondering if there was a dog.

northeastcorner Posted on 18/9 23:17
re: I'm an Atheist....

atheism for me, its just one less thing to worry about.

somebdy on here said quite recently:

"if harry potter had been written 2000 years ago, everybody would worship him once a week"

im inclined to agree

littlejimmy Posted on 19/9 6:22
re: I'm an Atheist....

Atheism is just too certain and unambiguous for me, and absolute certainty is what leads to extremism.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 19/9 7:42
re: I'm an Atheist....

So do you think I'm going to be blowing people up who believe in god Jimmy?

LIDDLE_TOWERS Posted on 19/9 8:12
re: I'm an Atheist....

atheist and proud of it

johnsmithsno2 Posted on 19/9 9:37
re: I'm an Atheist....

I go to church every week and meet my family there. The church, which is on a Middlesbrough estate, is bright and modern and full.

There aren't as many services as there were years ago because there are fewer worshippers, but those who are there now are more likely to go because they really want to as the "obligation" aspect has become diluted.

The atmosphere is friendly and prayerful and the priest inspirational, intelligent and always forward-looking and full of new and surprising ideas.

I come out feeling strengthened for the week ahead and while I don't want to force my views on anyone, I can't help wanting to share the sense of peace I get with the people I see and meet every day who seem to lack meaning in their lives. Don't want to patronise, I'm sure lots of people are happy without belief (and vice versa) but that's the way I feel.

Received wisdom would have us believe that organised religion is dead, but in my experience it is very much alive.

LoremIpsum Posted on 19/9 9:41
re: I'm an Atheist....

That's excellent, johnsmithsno2!

I've seen that sort of thing with people I know and I can only imagine the joy they feel and their inner peace.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 19/9 9:43
re: I'm an Atheist....

I have no inner peace and lots of anger and resentment but I'm still a happy old soul.

--- Post edited by Lisbonlegend on 19/9 9:43 ---

piggy_nichol Posted on 19/9 9:50
re: I'm an Atheist....

I think that it must be great to have a belief like JohnSmith.

I've mentioned before on here that when I've visited old churches I would prefer to be visiting them as a worshipper. Its that sense of belonging, like going to the match in a way.

I've thought about just telling myself that I do believe and in time I might end up forgetting that I dont, but deep down I know that I dont.

LoremIpsum Posted on 19/9 9:54
re: I'm an Atheist....

As far as I understand it, Piggy, the process goes like this:

You start going to church and the power of the services (which have been honed to perfection over centuries) have a subliminal effect on you and eventually transport your consciousness into a higher plane. This leads to a feeling of well-being and, from that, belief.

This is just something I have read, not tried. I was a choir boy for five years, but for purely mercenary reasons - we were paid to sing at weddings.

Lefty3668 Posted on 19/9 9:58
re: I'm an Atheist....

Lisbon, you do not believe in God, but do you really believe that when you die that is the end?

piggy_nichol Posted on 19/9 9:59
re: I'm an Atheist....

I'd just feel such a fake though, Lor.

And I used to have to go when I was a kid and would have chewed my arm off to escape the boredom. I doubt very much that it would work on me.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 19/9 9:59
re: I'm an Atheist....

A historian choirboy eh? Do you have anymore whacky hobbies Mr 'meaningless collection of latin phrases designed to function as a filler'.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 19/9 10:01
re: I'm an Atheist....

Not sure Mr Lefty, maybe our minds float about in a dream but probably there's just nothingness.

LoremIpsum Posted on 19/9 10:03
re: I'm an Atheist....

Lisbon - all of my hobbies centre around my pursuit of spiritual and intellectual perfection.

Writing on this board is the equivalent of wearing a hair shirt and beating my forehead with a plank of wood.

I also collect shovels.

Some of this post might not be true.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 19/9 10:07
re: I'm an Atheist....

Does that mean that physically you are found wanting or maybe like a Stephen Hawkings type? The board could do with a Hawkings for spiritual and intellectual enlightenment. Maybe not the voice though.

The bit about intellectual perfection isn't true, I reckon. Oh and what is a hair shirt?

LoremIpsum Posted on 19/9 10:09
re: I'm an Atheist....

Hair shirts (usually horse-hair) were worn by believers who wished to punish their bodies to achieve a spiritual goal.

No, LL, I am no Stephen Hawking. I am an Adonis. An ageing one, but an Adonis nevertheless

Lisbonlegend Posted on 19/9 10:12
re: I'm an Atheist....

Where can I purchase a hair shirt please?

I like you Hawkings, you're intellectually stimulating and of a happy disposition. Do you listen to classical music and read the Independent?

LoremIpsum Posted on 19/9 10:28
re: I'm an Atheist....

Lisbon - I do listen to classical music. I seldom listen to anything else. And I do read the Independent.

Are you chatting me up?

I'll get me coat.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 19/9 10:33
re: I'm an Atheist....

Yes. So what do you say, half 7 by the Billingham Town Centre Art Gallery?

LoremIpsum Posted on 19/9 10:35
re: I'm an Atheist....

And miss the match?

I will have to pray for a bit first and await a divine response to your proposition. This could take some time.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 19/9 10:36
re: I'm an Atheist....

Do you sit in the West Stand?

LoremIpsum Posted on 19/9 10:41
re: I'm an Atheist....

Whenever I can make it, I do.

Oops, here's me thinking that today is Wednesday. Oh, the fallibility of mortal man!

Lisbonlegend Posted on 19/9 10:44
re: I'm an Atheist....

Keep working on that intellectual perfection.

I'm just stereotyping you that's all, don't worry as I imagine I'm spoken for anyway...