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scoea Posted on 30/9 19:42
Much better

I have read the usual reactions of those with a penchant for overreaction but I was pleased with the performance today.

I felt Gate picked the right team and the players' attitudes were 100% improved.

We could and should have put the game to bed in the first half. Not only the missed chances but also the situations we found ourselves in without having the final pass.

I expect that there will be more overreaction but for me that was a good performance. Yak was much better, Cattermole enjoyed a fine game and Taylor was, for me, outstanding both defensively and offensively. My MOM was Pogatetz who did not put a foot wrong.

Under McClaren there were demands for more entertaining and attack minded football. I saw evidence that we are moving in that direction today. Add the likes of Arca, Riggott, Boateng, Huth, Xavier etc to the squad/team and I can definitely see us moving forward.

As worried as I was after the Blackburn game and as critical I was of Southgate I have to give him credit today because it was a lot, lot better. I felt we were simply unlucky on the day.

Tweek Posted on 30/9 19:44
re: Much better

Come on scoea how can you be plaesed with that shef u were woeful but if it wasn't for woody it could have been a heavier defeat, i am not blaming gareth at all but the fact is the players we have are not all giving there all.

Viduka was woeful today abolutely dire.

Ricard00 Posted on 30/9 19:45
re: Much better

You must have watched a different game to me.

Our attitude was bad, we squandered easy chances and it would have been a travesty if we had taken anything from the game.

scoea Posted on 30/9 19:46
re: Much better

You are one of the worst for overreaction. I saw the game as Southgate did. Against Blackburn it was unacceptable but today we played well and deserved more.

Look at our chances compared to theirs.

Nedkat Posted on 30/9 19:48
re: Much better

I agree with your general sentiment, but if this is a game of numbers, then I would say that your right for 60% of the game, there was improvements. However, I also think that only 60% of the team, played like they cared, for 100% of the game.

Tweek Posted on 30/9 19:48
re: Much better

Scoea are you serious you were happy with that, like i say i don't blame gareth but today we looked average at best.

Exactly Ned.

--- Post edited by Tweek on 30/9 19:49 ---

ThePrisoner Posted on 30/9 19:49
re: Much better

"I was pleased with the performance today."

Hopefully you are being ironic. How can you be pleased with getting pummelled by Sheff U? After we equalised they pinned us back for twenty minutes, got umpteen corners and crosses and were unlucky not to score. Did their 'keeper ever touch the ball again after we scored?

We were GASH and are going to get relegated.

scoea Posted on 30/9 19:49
re: Much better

Not happy with the defeat but generally happy with the effort, attitude and the quality of play.

Tweek Posted on 30/9 19:50
re: Much better

generally happy with the effort, attitude

Come on scoea how can you say that.

Unbelievable_Jeff Posted on 30/9 19:50
re: Much better

Easily pleased then. Unacceptable performance. That shows just how bad blackburn was i suppose.

Durham_Red Posted on 30/9 19:51
re: Much better

Agree, it was certainly an improvement on the last few games. The players worked hard for each other and at least we had a formation we understood.

Cattermole had his best game of the season, Morrison worked very hard getting forward and tracking back. Defensively fairly solid, singling out Talyor (my MOTM) and Pog who were very good.

For me the biggest disappointments were the front two, neither held the ball up and never linked up together. This should be our strength but today Rob Hulse on his own caused more problems that Vids and Yak together.

littlejimmy Posted on 30/9 19:51
re: Much better

I sometimes wonder if you're a troll, scoea. You've got to be fooking kidding, lad. Losing to Sheffield fooking United, a team who haven't won in the top flight since 1994, is shocking, however you want to dress it up.

scoea Posted on 30/9 19:51
re: Much better

Because it is true tweek. I am absolutely right with my assessment. Look beyond the defeat instead of reacting.

joseph99 Posted on 30/9 19:52
re: Much better

"Cattermole fine game"

Far from the finisheed article, average first half and was probably busy reading his own press in the 2nd. Guilty of ball watching for their 1st. More energy and than guile. Midfield today was as weak as Mendi's shot.

Rochenbach played well for me, but midfireld was woeful.

Tweek Posted on 30/9 19:53
re: Much better

Th worry for me is that we lacked a plan b once again too many easy to defend balls and we just curled up after our 2 chances and shef u took over because we let them, the fact is without boateng we look very weak in the middle of mf.

scoea Posted on 30/9 19:53
re: Much better

Catts played well today - I'm genuinely amazed that you can't see it.

I think the problem with the reactionaries on this board is that they find it impossible to see past a defeat.

joseph99 Posted on 30/9 19:57
re: Much better

I am genuinally amzed you didn't see that he was insufficient, yes full of passion and bravado, but absolutely no end product. One day he might be premiership, but he's along way from filling Goerge's boots (and George is average Premisership std)

--- Post edited by joseph99 on 30/9 19:58 ---

br14 Posted on 30/9 19:58
re: Much better

Slightly better than Blackburn, but then Blackburn are a way better team than Sheffield Utd.

No doubt you will enjoy the open games we play in the Championship next year.

scoea Posted on 30/9 19:59
re: Much better

What end product do you want? He wins the ball and plays it simply.

barney001 Posted on 30/9 19:59
re: Much better

"Look at our chances compared to theirs"!!!!!

They had 19 on target we had 3.

Grow up FFS!!!!!!!!!!

scoea Posted on 30/9 20:01
re: Much better

They had 7 actually. Oh, and Yak hitting the post counts as an effort off targetr. Does that mean that his chance was better than Leighertwood's grass cutter that rolled into Schwarz's hands?

Grow up yourself.

Tweek Posted on 30/9 20:02
re: Much better

he hit the post so that is not on target if it was it would have went in.

joseph99 Posted on 30/9 20:03
re: Much better

He hardly touched the ball in the 2nd half.

Yes he got booked for a stupid immature challenge, be honest, he's not the finished article.

FFS we were beaten, and the midfield were anonymous for mist of the game.

Cattermole ball watching for their first goal - selective eyesight I presume.

One day I will sing his praises but today, he had a big role and was exposed for what he is: the unfinished article.

SidSnot Posted on 30/9 20:03
re: Much better

We were much better than recently and deserved a point. In terms of quality we were streets ahead of Sheff Utd, but we need a little more passion and need to play with more confidence. Viduka and Morrison both big disappointments!

Nedkat Posted on 30/9 20:04
re: Much better

Someone's trolling for a ton ... ????

scoea Posted on 30/9 20:07
re: Much better

Not at all Ned. These are my genuine opinions on the game.

joseph - of course he isn't the finished article. I wouldn't claim otherwise. I thought he had a good game today and did what was expected of him. BTW - he lost a header in the build up to their goal but then tried to get back in.

joseph99 Posted on 30/9 20:10
re: Much better

Scoea: suggest you watch the replay. He had a shot, lost the header and then his eyes were transfixed on the ball and not on the player (Hulse) running to his left. Watch the repeat, then come back with a comment.

scoea Posted on 30/9 20:10
re: Much better

Tweek - that is precisely my point. Shots on target is misleading because Yak's chance was by far the best chance of the game and yet it doesn't figure in the on target list.

I think you're mistaken joseph and I am entitled to that view. The goal was actually an error by two of the defenders who got mixed up with their marking.

--- Post edited by scoea on 30/9 20:11 ---

joseph99 Posted on 30/9 20:14
re: Much better

I think you are mistaken and I am entitled to that viewpoint.

scoea Posted on 30/9 20:16
re: Much better

Exactly, but I will watch it again and if you are right then I will come back and agree with you. Nonetheless, even if that were the case I stand by my overall assessment of his game and the game in general.

First half we were the better side, we passed it well and created two glorious chances. Second half we defended pretty well and deserved at least a point.

joseph99 Posted on 30/9 20:19
re: Much better

I agree with your overall sentiment, but disgree on the "Cattermole had a fine game" comment.

It's a big role and he's not ready for it. Had GB played today I think we wouold have won. It's a fine balance.

holgateoldskool Posted on 30/9 20:23
re: Much better

See pat a defeat - which one were you thinking of - Reading ? Portsmouth ? Blackburn/ Shef Utd ? Spoilt for choice. I admire your optimism ............

urko69 Posted on 30/9 20:27
re: Much better

BYE BYE

joseph99 Posted on 1/10 0:34
re: Much better

have you seen Catt's ball watching yet Scoea?

Stepper_T Posted on 1/10 0:35
re: Much better

I will never be happy at losing to a side so poor.

red_rebel2 Posted on 1/10 0:45
re: Much better

Bor played well but lost? I'd ratherbe awful and sneak it with a fluke.

Chappy_112 Posted on 1/10 1:08
re: Much better

I'm with Scoea if I'm honest, I thought the attitude was awesome. I felt that although they had a couple of 10 minute spells they never really looked like scoring from the pressure. It took a sensational strike and a counter attack to beat our defence.

I have no doubts in my mind that if we had won 2-1 which we quite easily could have then people would have been saying it was a quality performance. Two players did let us down though in Morrison and Viduka, I think if Vids plays bad then we play bad and he makes other people look bad because theres no one holding the ball up.

Red_Slim Posted on 1/10 6:39
re: Much better

We appear worse than we did because we didn't take our chances, simple as.

We could of/should of been two up in the first half and the whole game would have taken on a different perspective as Sheffield fell into their 'fookinell, here we go again' mode. We didn't.

Sheffield made their classic, 'leave a player totally unmarked in the box' mistake but we didn't take the chance.

Despite not having won for over a decade in the top flight, we were still the away team and on a crap run of form, I didn't expect this one to be a easy by any means. They know we are poor and were quite rightly up for it. What they lacked in quality they made up in spirit and effort.

We've all seen Boro play worse than that and win but because of the concern over the start of the season and the worry about the future, nothing but a win would have satisfied and this colours our perspective.

We're not creating enough opportunities, so on those occasions we do get one we have to take it.

Having said that, we have to get the basics right and Ned was on the money with his 60%/100% analogy. If we are playing badly, and all but a very few teams don't have a bad run at some point in the season, we need to do what Sheffield did today and all work even harder. Again, we didn't.

A further unfotunately worrying aspect to the start of the season is the lack of moments of brilliance from our more talented 'stars'. Downing, Yakubu, Viduka and the Boat haven't had the best of starts. Until our game changers start changing the game and showing the flashes of quality that win games I see little fun ahead for us Boro fans.

When they don't perform we're left with a distinctly average side that isn't going to cope well in this Premiership.

scoea Posted on 1/10 7:58
re: Much better

joseph - would you believe I watched the game over on Sky+!!!
You were right on Catts - he did ball watch. However, I stand by my overall analysis of his performance and that of the team.

capio Posted on 1/10 8:05
re: Much better

This confirms my long held suspicion that scoea is a wind up.

Big_Shot Posted on 1/10 9:14
re: Much better

I thought the last away performance was far better. The one were we got a cracking point at a notoriously tough place to go to, and infact should have snatched all 3 points.

scoea Posted on 1/10 10:33
re: Much better

Why is that then capio? Is it because my opinion differs to your own.? If so, it makes you look very foolish given the nature of your personal attack upon me in the recent past.

I am absolutely not a wind up and am absolutely sure of my view of the game. I think that the fans on here struggle to cope with the notion that there can be positives in defeat. Every review of the game I have read and seen on TV has confirmed that, certainly for the first hour of the game, we were by far the better side. We played the better football and created the better chances.

Just watch MOTD's highlights package for further evidence of this.

Reckre Posted on 1/10 10:47
re: Much better

I agree with scoea here.

For most of the match we were on control, except a 20 nminute spell in the second half. We passed the ball well, and I thought Rochemback ran the midfield. We should have gone in at half time ahead, as we created 2 gilt edged chances before they scored.

The second half seemed to be more about the fact that the ball wouldn't stick up front. Viduka looked knackered.

If we keep that line up and team for the next 5-6 games, we will move up the table.

scoea Posted on 1/10 10:57
re: Much better

At last some sense. You and I don't often (if I recall) agree Reckre but you have it dead right.

I do think that the Duke's lack of minutes on the pitch caught up with him in the end and I would have put Maccarone on just to chase down defenders but overall I thought the team did well. On another day we score two or three goals and win the the game.

Big_Shot Posted on 1/10 11:03
re: Much better

But are you taking into account the opposition when you are saying much better. Also what was it much better than, last weeks home defeats against a much better side than Sheff Utd, or the 2 good away points, and not conceding a goal from open play, we got in our 2 previous away games.

scoea Posted on 1/10 19:59
re: Much better

It was, quite obviously, a massive improvement on the Blackburn debacle. I also thought from a purely footballing point of view the performance was much better. We passed it well, created lots of chances and

As for quality of opposition, the performances against Blackburn and Notts County would have resulted in sound beatings no matter the opposition. Sheff utd are a battling, hard working team the like of which we usually struggle against. In that respect I saw a big improvement and reason to be positive.

OPEO Posted on 1/10 22:27
re: Much better

Yet another crap result. We were woeful and it looks likely we will be hovering around the trap door for most of the season. Crowds will drop away and Scoea will still be happy with these 100% improved displays. hehehehehe. Bolden Lad come back.

la_smoggette Posted on 1/10 22:55
re: Much better

My tuppenceworth:

The formation was sensible, which wasn't the case v Blackburn. So that *was* better.

But on the whole, we were out-played by the worst team in the league (based on points and position). If you're happy that we continue like that, you'll no doubt accept the inevitable relegation with a gracious smile...

That might sound harsh and if so, I'm sorry - but I'm devastated just now. What's gonna change?

trodbitch Posted on 1/10 23:00
re: Much better

It's a shame when 'success' is measured in terms of not picking a team that is preposterous and doomed from the start and still going on to lose.

bozo83 Posted on 1/10 23:22
re: Much better

I normally look for the positives out of any game but i'm struggling for teh sheff utd game. Rochemback played well Woodgate aswell other then that, not very much maybe Yak taking his goal well. We are playing one of the poorest sides in the league and a draw should be minimum.

Im becoming increasingly disheartened with how we are under Southgate. Lots of good talk but not much football on the pitch. Attacking football was his philosphy plenty of talk about changing from the mclaren regime but all i can see is we've got worse. Still pulling every player in our own box for their corner. Their 1st goal came form a break off our corner, we are never going to do that in a million games like we are now.

The only points we've picked up have been off the back foot, basedon solid defnsive tactics. When we have to be the aggresers playing against teams who arent better then us and take the game to teams we simply arent good enough

A long season ahead, with not much cup football as a welcoming distraction

Stepper_T Posted on 1/10 23:24
re: Much better

Actually, the Blackburn debacle progressed to the Sheff Utd debacle. If you believe the crap that Southgate came out with afterwards you are an idiot.

If Southgate was telling the truth, we are in a bigger mess than i imagined.

capio Posted on 1/10 23:27
re: Much better

Not sure which game scoea and a couple of others were watching but we were rubbish.

scoea Posted on 2/10 7:54
re: Much better

Seemingly, I was watching the same game that the vast majority of pundits were. Instead of simply labelling me an idiot, re-watch the game. We were by far the better team for the majority of the match. We had more of the ball and created the better chances, simple as that.

If the game had gone exactly the same way and we had won (which we undoubtedly could and should have done) then the reaction on here would have been very different.

Most of the posters look at only the result and are unable to see past it and take positives out of the game, despite there being plenty.

I was extremely critical of almost every aspect of the Blackburn game so why would I not be critical of this one if I didn't see any positives? Same goes for Southgate.

FAT_AL Posted on 2/10 8:09
re: Much better

I agree mostly with scoea - a massive improvement in formation and attitude but it will take time to regain form.

Everybody has decided that Southgate was having a go at Mclaren when saying we looked to much like last years team against Blackburn and he was now going to do things his way.

Personally I think he was referring to his coaches as well and if he was then I think he has decided to keep it simple and not be swayed by other staff as I could not understand how Southgate would pick that team and formation against Blackburn.

Big_Shot Posted on 2/10 8:58
re: Much better

Of course people would reacted differently if we had won, as we would have gained a valuable 3 points. Games like Sheff Utd away are games that we should be winning, and if we had done so it would have given the club a massive lift and reassured them that they can still win games of football under pressure, and quickly recovered from the low of the Blackburn game. Sadly that never happened, despite picking what the majority feel is our best side. The Blackburn game can be excused because of the baffling team selection of the manager, so is an improvement on that really that great?

I also thought we had settled for the point, which is a major kick in the teeth when you don't get it. Surely, even as someone who doesn't rate him, introducing Maccarone with 20 minutes to go would have been a positive attempt to try and win the game.

--- Post edited by Big_Shot on 2/10 8:59 ---

Lincoln_Exile Posted on 2/10 9:07
re: Much better

I wish we hadn't scored when we did, we just seemed to stop after that, I was angry cos I watched it on Sky + and knew the result but felt obliged to watch it all. The period after our goal we didn't manage two passess for about the next 15 minutes, this wasn't due to Shef U being great it was down to utterly vvwank ball control and panic induced hoofing, it is quite simpy not good enough. Have we sunk so low, to go from being European finalists, to being happy with the improvement from getting beat by Notts County and Blackburn to getting beat by Sheffield Utd?

heaton_mersey_boro Posted on 2/10 9:13
re: Much better

"Have we sunk so low, to go from being European finalists, to being happy with the improvement from getting beat by Notts County and Blackburn to getting beat by Sheffield Utd?"

Spot on Lincoln_Exile.

Are we supposed to be happy that we played "better" on Saturday? We played "better" against a worse team. So is it really an improvement?

Just can't see it.

Apart from a 20-30 min spell against Chelsea overall we have been p_ss poor all season. Good defensive performances against Arsenal and Bolton merely detract from the simple fact that we have an utterly sh_te midfield unit who cannot support the attack and give the defence a hand when needed.

Until we sort this out, sort the personnel out, tactics formation whatever we are in the sh_t.

Boromart Posted on 2/10 9:17
re: Much better

I don't beleive that this was a terrible performance. We created the best 3 chances of the game and took one. They had one real must score chance (and Morisson almost chased him down) and a bunch of shots from outside the box, mostly poor. They never got around our fullbacks, and there crosses were constantly met by the outstanding Woody and Pogo.

Usually defenders feel they have done there job if the opposition are resorting to a centreback shooting from 35 yards, and 99% of the time the ball will go out for a goalkick or even a throw in. We were certainly unlucky to lose.

Also for the winning goal, I thought there was a simple pass on to Mendi, but Davies panicked a little and hoofed it down field. He lacked a little composure.

We need to be a little more clinical at both ends of the field. The return of Boateng and Huth and possibly Xavier will help keep the ball out of our net. We then need to Viduka to get a run of games and a bit of match fitness and form. Yaks form will also return.

Boro_Monkey Posted on 2/10 9:22
re: Much better

I've never seen a bunch of players struggling in the league walking with the swagger of the best team in the world.

Some of the attitudes on the players are rubbish. It's pathetic and some need putting right in their place.

The miss from Yakubu is unforgivable as far as I'm concerned. When your confidence is high because you're scoring loads of goals and you're winning 4-0, then fair enough, p1ss about. But as it is, just hit the bloody thing!!!

For those that think Cattermole is amazing, don't get me wrong, I definitely think he's one for the future, and it wasn't all his fault that it happened, but lets face it, the gaps in midfield were bigger than that of most Sunday league teams.

It was rubbish and to try and say anything else is idiocy.

Lincoln_Exile Posted on 2/10 9:22
re: Much better

"They had one real must score chance (and Morisson almost chased him down) and a bunch of shots from outside the box, mostly poor. They never got around our fullbacks, and there crosses were constantly met by the outstanding Woody and Pogo"


But, they are probably the worst side in the league and we conceded two goals and lost? Am I missing something?

Boromart Posted on 2/10 9:31
re: Much better

its a bit early to say they are the worst side in the league. People said Wigan would end up bottom with the lowest points ever, just 14 months ago.

It wasn't a great performance, but nearly all the moments of quality were from us. They broke our defence down once, we got into positions were we only had the keeper to beat on THREE occassions. It was just poor finishing.

Remember the first goal came from a breakk when we were pressing them, it was there first serious attack of the game, the mistake from Cattermole was a poor one, and highlighted why we need Boateng back in the side. They won with a fluke shot from 35 yards. Sheff Utd got every bit of luck going to win that one.

--- Post edited by Boromart on 2/10 9:31 ---

kermit_the_smog Posted on 2/10 9:31
re: Much better

Am sorry but to say Rochemback had a good game and ran the show and Catts a poor one is diluded. Rochemback barely had a touch in the 2nd half, i remember saying to my mate i havent seen Rocky get a touch for ages. The game passed him by, Catts seemed to have to cover acres of the pitch because he was over exposed. Catts was partly to blame for the goal, but it shouldn't have even got that far, we let them in far too easily.

One of my main concerns and what angers me most is defending corners. I am sick to death of seeing 10 of our players in the box. It really, really plsses me off. Sort it out Gareth you muppet. EVERY time we cleared it their player had time, looked up... then put it straight back in the box! LEAVE A FCKING PLAYER OR TWO AT LEAST UP FIELD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If Yak, Mozza and Downing are left up front we can get on the end of clearances and try break against opposition instead of having a packed penalty area where anything can happen.

scoea Posted on 2/10 9:35
re: Much better

Precisely Boromart. It is not about accepting defeat against a lesser team, of course that is hard to take, but again I go back to what I said earlier. There can be positives, even in defeat but I think that the defeat itself is clouding people's judgement. You say we should be beating teams like Sheff Utd and you're quite right. Had we taken our easy chances we would have sailed through. As it was, we didn't, looked good for a point until a 35 yarder that was unstoppable.

We created the best chances by far and I never felt really threatened by them. They were restricted to long range efforts and our defence were comfortable.

heaton_mersey_boro Posted on 2/10 9:41
re: Much better

Wigan last season played some good football, and deserved where they finished.

Sheff. Utd. were absolutely p_ss poor, and looked like a reasonable Championship side at best. But they out battled us, and for spells put us under a fair bit of pressure. We did not deserve to beat them; a draw would have been fair, but what happened......thats football. We mugged Chelsea, they mugged us.

But, once again we were sh_t. People can say that "Woodgate had a good game" "Pogatetz had a good game" etc, but the team as a whole was crap. And we have been for most of the season. Another completely disjointed performance.

As a usually optimistic supporter, believing things can only get better etc, I am worried. Very worried.

guyb Posted on 2/10 9:47
re: Much better

I'm not sure. Watching the game I was as frustrated as I had been at Blackburn.

The Guardian sums it up best for me today: "But Southgate's Middlesbrough had little to commend them. Having panned his side last week, Southgate imagined that he had witnessed a healthy performance. That is healthy performance as in two shots on target. They must look terrible when they are ill."

We are happy with 2nd best at the moment. Teams like Sheff Utd, Reading and Notts County should have been put to the sword - instead, all beat us.

While I appreciate it was a better performance than Blackburn, it doesn't detract that we are currently 100 miles away from anything resembling a coherent, solid, seriously threatening outfit.

When was the last time a midfielder scored?
When was the last time we peppered a teams goal with distance shots?
When was the last time we took a game by the scruff of the neck and killed it?

Until these factors are addressed then we won't be out of the bottom six.

We look exactly like Birmingham City did last season and no ammount of complacent platitudes from the management are going to convince me otherwise until we start beating teams and beating them convincingly.

bigchanges Posted on 2/10 9:52
re: Much better

I held off responding to this thread - cooling down period.
Just got into work (nr Manchester) and discussed game and performance with objective footy fans from a variety of North West teams.
Generally they felt it was an open game between two very poor prem teams.
Must admit I thought we were ok but, we were playing Sheff Utd! They are shocking ( with loads of injuries BTW).
I thought Southgates 'Boro fans will be happy with the progress since last week' was a disgrace. That comment gives me more reason to be concerned than the football we are (or are not) playing.

capio Posted on 2/10 9:56
re: Much better

I've never read so much crap, over-analyzing the game with forceful opinions doesn't change the game. We were OK in the first half and useless in the second, we were playing a very poor team so it is easier to look slightly better than say against Blackburn.

The fact speak for themselves, apart from the goal which was slightly fortuitous, in a complete game we only had one more effort on target against what is considered either the worst team or the second worst team in the division.

Letís not build it up into something it wasn't, we were rubbish, now its time to address why we were rubbish and improve.
Too many are falling into the McClaren style trap of trying to looking for positives that don't exist.

Stop the spin, this is not politics.

We were crap, we had 2 shots on targets in 90 mins, now its time to put it right.

scoea Posted on 2/10 9:56
re: Much better

Last time a midfielder scored? Arsenal away - 3 games ago.
Last time we peppered a team with long distance shots? Not sure why that's relevant given that we created three one on ones against Sheff Utd
Last time we took a game by the scruff of the neck? Chelsea at home.

Capio your attitude astounds me. Given the forceful nature of your attacks on me regarding arrogance etc for you to dismiss my opinions as crap, spin and rubbish is a little hipocritical don't you think?

--- Post edited by scoea on 2/10 9:58 ---

scoea Posted on 2/10 9:59
re: Much better

Oh and we actually had 5 shots on target, not including the Yak's missed one on one!!

captain5 Posted on 2/10 10:02
re: Much better

Team who hadn't scored or won away from home until they played us - Blackburn.

Team who hadn't won in the league this season until they played us - Sheff United.

Shots on target in these two games - 7

kermit_the_smog Posted on 2/10 10:03
re: Much better

Someone above said we look like Birmingham did last season and I cant help but agree. We look completely lightweight and the trouble we're in is even more highlighted when people say theyre pleased with a performance when losing 2-1 to Sheff United and only troubled their keeper once in the 2nd half.

Our midfield do not play for each other, our strikers cant be arsed, bringing off a pacey winger to replace him with a player in terrible form was a mistake by Gareth. If Mozza had to come off then Macca shoulda been sent on. My vote woulda been to take fat Mark off and put Macca on. He was a waste of space on Saturday.

Spoff_MFC Posted on 2/10 10:04
re: Much better

Viduka and Downing were both well off the pace of the game, but as neither have played for a while I would have looked to chance them after 60/70 minutes.

The performance was OK up until the final 3rd.

capio Posted on 2/10 10:04
re: Much better

Scoea the fact that you are so confident about your incorrect stats says it all, it's all waffle.
Just tell it as it is, we were rubbish.

Link: .

Big_Shot Posted on 2/10 10:04
re: Much better

Scoea, do you consider Saturdays performance better than the performance in our previous away game. I don't and therefore don't see it as an improvement. Away games are a totally different proposition so its not fair to compare it favourably to a poor home performance which we all agree a baffling team selection was the main reason for the defeat.

--- Post edited by Big_Shot on 2/10 10:07 ---

heaton_mersey_boro Posted on 2/10 10:04
re: Much better

Yeah, but 2 shots on target against Blackburn, then 5 against Sheff. Utd means we are getting better.........does'nt it?

boroboy75 Posted on 2/10 10:08
re: Much better

Unbelievable.
We were the worst of two poor teams, and we can't improve our squad until January. It's going to be a long 3 months.

capio Posted on 2/10 10:08
re: Much better

We can never speak for anybody but ourselves, but I am very confident that the vast majority of boro fans will agree with this.

'The performance against sheff utd simply was not good enough; it wasnít even approaching an acceptable standard, now Mr. Southgate and his team need to assess why it was so bad and improve dramatically in a short period of time.'


Most people like me are willing to give him a chance, but there is a growing minority that aren't.

captain5 Posted on 2/10 10:09
re: Much better

It's the equivalent of Sunderland fans being happy with 25 points in a season if they get promoted again.

heaton_mersey_boro Posted on 2/10 10:09
re: Much better

Don't worry boroboy.

We have Huth, Arca and Boateng coming back soon......and everything will be absolutely fine!

Spoff_MFC Posted on 2/10 10:12
re: Much better

Changing manager regularly is never a success, look at Millwall, Southampton, Villa.

But I cannot help feeling Southgate is the right man at the wrong time.

I do not have much confidence in him getting the best out of what we have got or attracting players to come.

scoea Posted on 2/10 10:13
re: Much better

So I read a different report that said 5 shots on target, so what? Often different sites and reports have differing stats. I would still argue that Yak and Woody's chances were far better chances than for example Leighrtwood's two grass cutters that rolled into the keeper's arms.

I am still awaiting your justification for coments that I got told off for.

capio Posted on 2/10 10:14
re: Much better

Show me your source.

kermit_the_smog Posted on 2/10 10:15
re: Much better

I never really believed we woulda be in a relegation struggle as i expected Gareth to know his stuff, but after Blackburn and Sheff United i'm beginning to think he doesnt have a clue. Awful team selection vs Blackburn followed by him saying he picked the right team was amazing! Then to follow it up by saying he's really pleased with the performance against Sheff United then i am getting really worried about where we're heading.

Premiership teams will receive a massive television pay out next season and we simply HAVE to be in this league if we wanna have a chance of moving forward. At the moment us, Sheff United and Charlton look like being favourites for the drop. Teams like Reading and Watford will probably be there but confidence will still be high at those clubs as this is all new to them and exciting being in the premiership.

scoea Posted on 2/10 10:18
re: Much better

capio - I think it was on TV but I am prepared to accept what Sky say if it makes you happier. Now answer my question.

Big_Shot Posted on 2/10 10:19
re: Much better

West Ham are having a worse time than us, but you can see them turning it round soon as they are still creating plenty of chances and look capable when going forward, so results will come. We don't look like that and it is a cause for concern.

scoea Posted on 2/10 10:21
re: Much better

Spurs aren't doing much better.

captain5 Posted on 2/10 10:24
re: Much better

Couldn't give a rat's arse about Spurs. I don't pay my money to watch them.

Big_Shot Posted on 2/10 10:25
re: Much better

They are, but again you can see them turning it round. Not a sudden run of great wins to push the into the top 4, but a steady enough run of form and points that will see them pull away from the bottom and leave a few teams stranded as the season progresses. At this moment can we honestly say that we'll suddenly get a steady run of points.

--- Post edited by Big_Shot on 2/10 10:25 ---

scoea Posted on 2/10 10:25
re: Much better

I agree but all I am saying is that there is reason to think that we can turn our league position around. after Blackburn I would have agreed but I genuinely (despite what the likes of capio suggest) saw signs of progress at Sheff utd. I thought we were a lot more fluent than in recent games and offered more threat. I was never at the edge of my seat worrying that they were going to score either. There are positives to be taken but I think defeat is clouding judgements.

--- Post edited by scoea on 2/10 10:26 ---

capio Posted on 2/10 10:26
re: Much better

I'm trying to avoid these personal critiques and stick to the subject but as you're insistent.
There's nothing to answer, you speak confidently about every subject and because of that people follow what you say, but usually its always subjective predictable and completely out of sync with what happened.
Youíre the Tony Blair of football fans, you try put spin on things and people will weak characters will believe you.

I said it exactly how it was, if you think we were good you either didn't watch the game or you don't understand football.

OnAMission5 Posted on 2/10 10:27
re: Much better

Its really annoying how poorly we are playing as we have some very good players in that squad.

At the moment we are viewed as a poor team and you cant disagree, but for whatever reason we are just not doing it.

In the past we have had squads who have struggled. The difference was we expected it then as the squad was more limited in ability but put in losts of effort and worked hard as a team. A Bit like Sheffield United.

Now it is relly annoying because the players are playing nowhere near to the level they should be.

I also hear people saying "Oh Well we always beat the big teams and lose to the lowly teams". Again, that really gets on my wick - it is an excuse for when things go wrong i.e tiredness after playing 2 matches in a week!

Dont forget this is not far off the same squad that challenged for a top 4 place 2 years ago and reached a European final last season - if anything we should be a little stronger with the extra development of the Youth.

Hopefully now, we can use these next 2 weeks to good effect. Work on the basics of passing and movement. Who knows, Football is a funny game, we may go and beat Everton (an unbeaten side!) and then with improved confidence go and stuff the barcodes the week after!

I think we should play the same team in the next match, maybe Boateng in for Cattermole and try and build some consistency in the team.

scoea Posted on 2/10 10:28
re: Much better

Oh the irony mr capio. If you can't see my point then you are dafter than I thought.

bandito Posted on 2/10 10:32
re: Much better

Despite the scoreline I was quite encouraged. Scoea makes some very valid points. Their last goal alters the perspective of the game. If we had of held on people would be saying a battling point coming from a goal down. It's a fine line. I saw enough in the performance to suggest we have the quality to get out of trouble but we need to do it quickly. The next 2 home games are VITAL. I belive the season hinges on them. A home defeat to the geordies will put us well n truly in the sh it. However, I believe a draw against Everton and a win against newcastle will see us move away from danger

--- Post edited by bandito on 2/10 10:32 ---

capio Posted on 2/10 10:35
re: Much better

scoea I knew it would be a waste of time as frankly you just talk a lot of turd as was proven when you were caught inventing stats and rather than make an honest assessment you're stretching this out to 100.

The whole second half I sat there with my head in my hands, we were crap!

--- Post edited by capio on 2/10 10:35 ---

scoea Posted on 2/10 10:35
re: Much better

Thank you Bandy. I feel exactly the same way. I was very positive and upbeat until that goal in the end. Had it been the other way around (i.e. us scoring a goal in the last minute) then there would be a completely different reaction on here.

Capio - I am not referring to my points on the game I am referring to the hypocrisy oozing from your every post.

--- Post edited by scoea on 2/10 10:36 ---

DybuksChampion Posted on 2/10 10:35
re: Much better

I thought it wasn't too bad a performance. Coming off the back of the Blackburn game we were never going to be world beaters but the the team came straight out of the blocks and could or should have had a couple of early goals. There are still players who for me are not doing enough but I feel more positive that this will come.

Positives for me:

- Southgate can obviously give a decent half time talk to improve the attitude.
- Yak has a goal and the confidence may start to come back
- Another good defensive performance. Most of the united shots on target were pot shots from 30 yards out (unfortunately one was pretty good).
- The players can come back into a game.
- Taylor is really looking the part

OnAMission5 Posted on 2/10 10:37
re: Much better

Bandito, I could quite easilty see us coming out and beating Everton. We are always at our best when our backs are to the wall and everything is against us. Everton are unbeaten. As well as helping out teams who have not won for 12 years we also like to end team's unbeaten runs!

rararasputin3 Posted on 2/10 10:38
re: Much better

"- Southgate can obviously give a decent half time talk to improve the attitude"
But not as good as Neil Warnock, Sheffield wanted to win that game far more then the Boro, who were settling for 1 1 .

capio Posted on 2/10 10:39
re: Much better

I canít even be bothered to explain it scoea, youíre too deluded and closed minded to ever take on an opinion that didnít form in your mind.
Youíre briggsy with attitude.
At least briggsy didnít make stats up.

The_Commisar Posted on 2/10 10:41
re: Much better

<the groundhog is restless, the mighty hawk is in the air, cirling>

DybuksChampion Posted on 2/10 10:42
re: Much better

I thought both teams were settling for 1-1 until vids lost the ball in a bad position and they had yet another punt from near the half way line.

capio Posted on 2/10 10:44
re: Much better

Commisar you doing that everyday is groundhog, especially as it adds no value to the discussion and isnít funny.

scoea Posted on 2/10 10:44
re: Much better

You can't be bothered to explain it because you simply cannot explain it.

Essentially you have spent the entirety of this thread attacking my opinions as deluded, rubbish, spin, crap despite the various lectures you have recently given against such sins.

You're a hypocrite, simple as that.

The_Commisar Posted on 2/10 10:46
re: Much better

Capio, have you had a smoothie thats disagreed with you ?

Tut

SidSnot Posted on 2/10 10:49
re: Much better

Scoea - you've brought this on yourself a little. It was a better performance, but it was against the bottom club (well until we played them). To say you were pleased with the performance was OTT and "looked" like it was designed to provoke a reaction. I agree we were unlucky to lose, but we've still got a long, long way to go!

Big_Shot Posted on 2/10 10:50
re: Much better

Of course people would be different if it was us who scored the last minute winner. I doubt we'd be all hailing it a great performance, but any win is a good win, and it would have taken a bit of pressure off the players and manager and lifted us up the table, gaining confidence for all involved. But next we have a must win home game and we all know we've struggled at home since the start of last season. We need to be getting a steady run of points, and zero points at Sheff Utd is more points dropped.

kermit_the_smog Posted on 2/10 10:51
re: Much better

I certainly don't think our squads much weaker, Taylor has been fantastic at left back so we're barely missed Franck, Pogatetz looks a different player and Woody is far better than Southgate was last season. Huth/Arca still to come in. Parnaby finally being left out of the team and someone who can tackle in his place (though was often caught out against Sheff United but only his first bad game of the season)

The loss of Jimmy is the only negative on the squad. He was a big player and a big character for us. You look to the bench and who would you want to come on, Maccarone, Christie or Jimmy? If he is only on a 1 year contract at Charlton then why didnt we offer him another year. Terrible decision.

capio Posted on 2/10 10:52
re: Much better

The problem is scoea you simply invent facts and then convince yourself they're true because you said it, sadly they rarely are and when questioned you attempt to spin the conversation and take it away from the subject.

Iím not interested in a personal argument with you, but you can never back up what you say.

It is the same when you make up transfer rumours and pretend you have links at the club. I am very well connected to a person (my brothers girlfriend) who used to work on the accounts there and she was involved in preparing bids, never did I get a rumour of a transfer because they keep them to themselves.

Your inaccurate shots to goal stats are typical of your views, said with supreme confidence but when question has nothing behind it.

--- Post edited by capio on 2/10 10:54 ---

scoea Posted on 2/10 11:01
re: Much better

If you are not interested in personal arguments might I suggest you stop giving lectures on how I should or should not post and stop dismissing my genuinely held opinions as rubbish, crap or spin.

Quite frankly, I don't care whether you believe my rumours or not. I know them to come from a good and reliable source, the rest is up to you.

I would also like you to elaborate on the notion that I make up stats to support my argument. Stats have nothing to do with my opinion on this thread. I accept that the 5 shots on target was wrong, maybe I read shots off target and made a mistake, who knows? The point is that you are being petty and pathetic.

You're a hypocrite.

capio Posted on 2/10 11:08
re: Much better

There's nothing hypocritical at all, you saw a game that 95% (invented fact but reasonably accurate) didn't see and I saw the game they did.
Iím tired of repeating the same thing now, we were rubbish as the vast majority of fans and journalists have said.
Your opinion is backed by you and about 2 or 3 people.

scoea Posted on 2/10 11:08
re: Much better

Whoosh.

Gillandi Posted on 2/10 11:48
re: Much better

Well said scoea, spot on assessment of the game, as I saw it too.

Well done for backing the manager you didn't fully approve of initially also, without the merest hint of an "I told you so."

On the evidence so far i'd say we are looking at a 14th place finish, which will be a good base for Southgate to start his managerial career on. In 12 months we'll have signed 2 or 3 more useful additions to the squad and all the youngsters playing on saturday will be a year better than they are currently, which augers well.

We just need to stick to our principles and hold our nerve.

scoea Posted on 2/10 12:39
re: Much better

Thanks Gillandi, it seems that I am not as stupid as certain posters would like to make out.

Link: Gazette Match Report

bigchanges Posted on 2/10 12:57
re: Much better

Er... I think u are stupid or provocative. And if you are relying on Bandito and Gillandi for support you are even more stupid than I thought.
Blackburn at home/sheff utd away = nil points.
Notts County at home - bumped out of the cup.
Atound a dozen shots on target in 3 games and 1 goal scored.
Should have been battered about 7-1 at arsenal.
U are kidding urslef.

scoea Posted on 2/10 13:02
re: Much better

Thanks for that interesting and intelligent critique of my thoughts on the game. Enlightening.

boroboy75 Posted on 2/10 13:09
re: Much better

Using Eric Paylor to back up your point doesn't make your opinion right. I don't know quite how he picks his star men.

blotonthelandscape Posted on 2/10 13:10
re: Much better

I agree with Socea, how bad a start to the week is that.

For what its worth there were one or two pluses; Woodgate Taylor, Pog and Downing, Yak seemed interested, Viduka was awful, Rocky cannot create at the moment but is the best we have, Cattermole and davies have a long way to go, the rest get the chq book out.

Boromart Posted on 2/10 13:12
re: Much better

"Should have been battered about 7-1 at arsenal"
No we shouldn't, just how often did Arse get a clear sight of our goal?

"Notts County at home - bumped out of the cup."
poor performance from an experimental team.

"Atound a dozen shots on target in 3 games and 1 goal scored."
hitting the target is the problem at the moment, we are getting into scoring positions.

Bigchanges - like many of the people on this thread you seem to be going completely over the top with your critiscism of the team.


I beleive Scoea is just trying to rally the troops a bit. I don't think it was a great performance, but it was an improvement on the Blackburn game. If we were a bit more clinical we would have breezed to 3 points without ever really getting into top gear.

What does the future hold? I think Gate will stick with 442.

I think Xavier will sign, and our back 4 will be Taylor..Huth...Woody...Xavier. That is pretty strong, especially if we can get and keep Boateng fit in front of them. I would consider a midfield 4 of Arca..Downing...Boat...Rocky. That will be a bit more creative, especially at home.

Viduka plays better when he has had a run of 3 or 4 games, and Yak will pull himself out of his slump...things are far from rosey, but there is light at the end of the tunnel.

--- Post edited by Boromart on 2/10 13:14 ---

joseph99 Posted on 2/10 13:13
re: Much better

People who are being honest and capable know that the game was lost in midfield.

Boromart Posted on 2/10 13:19
re: Much better

it is fair to say that we do not dominate teams in midfield. Cattermole is not ready for prem football, Downing isn't 100% fit or on his game, we are weak at right mid, and lack pace and a goal threat....a fit and on form Boat and Downing will change that a lot.

I think we need proper backup/competition for Boat in January, we don't compete without the Boat, its unfortunate that Parlour isn't fit, as his experience would be better than Catts misplaced enthusiasm right now.

Some people will laugh at this but I would get shot of parlour and offer 1 mill for Nicky Butt in Jan.

kermit_the_smog Posted on 2/10 13:23
re: Much better

You're right i am going to laugh at that

boroboy75 Posted on 2/10 13:26
re: Much better

I suppose defeat is easier to take when you can switch over to X-factor after the match, rather than travel home from Sheffield dissatisfied.

trodbitch Posted on 2/10 13:28
re: Much better

Spot on bb75.

scoea Posted on 2/10 13:30
re: Much better

Rob was there and he gave a fairly positive match report BB75. Are you saying that those of us that did not go to the game cannot comment upon the performance?

trodbitch Posted on 2/10 13:33
re: Much better

No but I'd say that watching the game on the tv doesn't give you a full view of what is happening on the pitch. I also say watching on tv puts a sterilising barrier between you and the game which numbs any feelings of anger towards a performance which was just not good enough. They had NOTHING special about them and we should have beaten them.

scoea Posted on 2/10 13:34
re: Much better

"sterilising barrier between you and the game which numbs any feelings of anger towards a performance"

You've obviously never seen me watch a game on the TV!!

fatharrywhite Posted on 2/10 13:36
re: Much better

got as far as the cattermole comments, just to say that he got boro's MOTM in a couple of the papers so he must have been doing something right. cant comment myself as i didnt see the game.

trodbitch Posted on 2/10 13:39
re: Much better

"You've obviously never seen me watch a game on the TV!!"

I bet you stand up the whole match as well.

Boromart Posted on 2/10 14:04
re: Much better

"I also say watching on tv puts a sterilising barrier between you and the game which numbs any feelings of anger towards a performance which was just not good enough"
...so it is also fair to say that being at a match, you get caught up in a tidal wave of negative emotion that inhibits your ability to judge a performance. In the cold light of day we had the three best chances of the game, they had one hard chance withint our box. We should have won regardless of our inability to keep hold of the ball in the last 20 mins....they had the same problem for the first 35 by the way.

FatHarry, regarding Catt, it isn't a lack of positive contributions that is the problem, its pluthora of negative contributions. The papers know nothing and half of the reports were probably sozzled, left after an hour, or didn't even go.

He has been culpable for several goals already this season. He was 100% at fault for Hulse's goal. He saw Hulse sprinting into space, and he just continued jogging instead of busting a gut to kill the space. Morrison recognised that Catt couldn't be bothered to chase Hulse, and sprinted past him, even though Catt had a 10 yard head start. If Catt had of got goalside, then Hulse would not have scored. That isn't a liability that we can afford in a team that is short on confidence.


--- Post edited by Boromart on 2/10 14:07 ---

scoea Posted on 31/1 10:47
re: Much better

The small roots of recovery that were evident back then are certainly in full bloom now.

Given how far we have come since September as a team, how far do you think we can go?

I still think there is a lot more to come from the team and Gareth but i think we'll end up around where we are now, which would be a good achievement given where we were.

Vinny_Garstroke Posted on 31/1 11:53
re: Much better

Still can't believe how you saw that game.

scoea Posted on 31/1 12:05
re: Much better

Many others agreed with me Vinny and the positives that I saw that day have been growing all the time.

bandito Posted on 31/1 12:15
re: Much better

No worries scoea, I saw the same game.

Vinny_Garstroke Posted on 31/1 12:17
re: Much better

What's with the mutaul masturbation, chaps?

scoea Posted on 31/1 12:20
re: Much better

So in your world Vinny, agreeing with someone equates to mutual masturbation?

That explains a lot about you, it really does.

bandito Posted on 31/1 12:25
re: Much better

He's a sticky customer is young Vincent

Vinny_Garstroke Posted on 31/1 13:10
re: Much better

So where does the shambolic 2-0 defeat at Watford fit into the start of our upturn in fortunes?

scoea Posted on 31/1 14:09
re: Much better

In order for there to be an upturn in fortunes we can't lose a match? Don't ask for much do you Vinny?

trodbitch Posted on 31/1 14:20
re: Much better

Vinny, don't bother.

Scoea, hoofing a post from 4 months ago smacks of "I told you so". There's too many self-congratulatory posts on here which (in my opinion) should be saved until the end of the season. That is, of course, unless you don't mind people hoofing these threads and saying you were wrong when we have a corresponding sticky spell?

If we had continued in our run of form and were sat at the bottom of the division, you wouldn't be as quick to hoof this.

scoea Posted on 31/1 14:26
re: Much better

Absolutely wrong Trod. I hoofed this post because I wanted to ask how far we can go given the progress made since the Sheff Utd game. Unduly harsh there I'm afraid.

Big_Shot Posted on 31/1 14:26
re: Much better

Midfield v Sheff Utd - Morrison Rochemback Cattermole Downing
Current midfield - Cattermole Boateng Arca Downing

So I don't see how our improvement started during that dismal defeat at Sheff Utd. Our first XI is better than it was then, simple.

--- Post edited by Big_Shot on 31/1 14:29 ---