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mattfj Posted on 24/10 14:10
Smoking ban in English Pubs

Its been a while since this has been debated on here-whats everyones opinions?
I'm a non-smoker and I really dont want to see it implemented in England-I think apart from your own home, the pub is the last refuge of the smoker. Ok, your clothes and hair will smell cleaner on the morning after if it was banned but why cant people go out and enjoy a pint and a fag without being moaned at. Families are worst they whinge that they dont want their kids breathing in second hand smoke-kids shouldnt even be in a pub and why should the smokers have to stub out their tabs? Surely the parents should be more imaginative and take their kids for a decent day out rather than sitting in the boozer all day, ruining it for everyone else...

--- Post edited by mattfj on 24/10 14:11 ---

--- Post edited by mattfj on 24/10 14:12 ---

MarlonD Posted on 24/10 14:12
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

I am a smoker and after visiting glasgow in the summer, I am looking forward to the ban coming in to be honest.

SouthernSmogette Posted on 24/10 14:12
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Inevitabley the English pubs will cope just as well, if not better than the Irish and more recently the Scots. Everyone will be catered for, I don't see there's an issue to debate.







Though I think all WKD drinkers should be barred from boozers. Sorry to offend

grantus Posted on 24/10 14:13
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

I think it is facism. Freedom is being taken away from people and they are actually cheering. Unbelievable.

If I was a landlord and wanted my pub to be smoker friendly, who is the government to tell me otherwise? They can go and f'ck off.

In Ireland the police turn a blind eye, apparently.

XXLshirts_fit_all Posted on 24/10 14:14
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

not fussed either way, it wont stop me going into pubs if they dont and wont stop most smokers going into them if they do

i live in jock land anyway and it has made the pub air much better and hasnt affected the atmosphere however it has created a new sub culture out side the pub where they all gather for tabs

funny watching them get drenched in the rain just to satisfy their cravings

mattfj Posted on 24/10 14:14
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

PS I'm talking about the traditional english pub, not these family type, wacky warehouse affairs!!!

Red_Clowne Posted on 24/10 14:15
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

I don't see there's anything to debate, legislation has been passed by Parliament and comes into force next April.

Short of getting Parliament to change it's mind there's nothing we can do about it - thankfully.


SouthernSmogette Posted on 24/10 14:15
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

In Ireland - in the sticks they can afford to turn a blind eye. However all of the major towns have good provision for the puffers.......

--- Post edited by SouthernSmogette on 24/10 14:16 ---

janplanner Posted on 24/10 14:17
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

it's not a problem up here. it helped me pack in once and for all, so personally it's been great.

there's been a decline in beer sales in the ontrade by about 5%, but that's an average. pubs and bars that put a lot of effort into working with the ban have seen increases in sales of 10% or more, so it really depends on the venue.

KENDAL Posted on 24/10 14:17
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Grantus,
That sounds like you only abide by the laws that you agree with or that work in your favour.

speckyget Posted on 24/10 14:18
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

A night out in Edinburgh lately - clothes box fresh the next day.

Grantus, 'freedom' is often cited by the advocates of unpleasant activities, the cock fighters, the badger baiters, etc. There are those at the fringes of the 'freedom' spectrum that would have us legalise hard drugs.

MarlonD Posted on 24/10 14:18
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

FFS grantus will you put your soap box away today please, you are scaring some younger members of the board with your grumpy old man routine today.

trodbitch Posted on 24/10 14:19
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

I'm a smoker. I don't mind the ban to be honest. Will make quitting easier.

We'll look back on this century and smoking the same way we look back on people giving kids morphine in tonics over the last century.

trodbitch Posted on 24/10 14:21
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Jan, what sort of extra effort is required in pubs with the ban? What sort of things do they do?

Red_Clowne Posted on 24/10 14:21
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Grantus - yeah, what's all this government malarky?

Who do they think they are?

They'll be thinking that they have the right to pass laws and all that!!!


grantus Posted on 24/10 14:22
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Bollox speckyget. Why not ban drinking, why not ban kebabs and fry ups, why not ban cars, why not ban the sale of knives, or of household cleaning products that you can get high on, ban advertising, ban tv, ban radio.

KENDAL, if I could I would, but I'd rather be walking around outside of the penatentiary.

speckyget Posted on 24/10 14:25
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Tsk - because with all those other things the mere act of indulging in them does not directly threaten the health of bystanders in proximity.

And in case you hadn't noticed the Government IS trying to get people to moderate their intake of beer, kebabs, etc.

Bukowski_MFC Posted on 24/10 14:27
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Smoking has pretty much become a social no-no these days and I think it can only be a good thing.

grantus Posted on 24/10 14:29
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

They all affect the health of not just yourself. open your eyes.

I do not want to be protected by the government in my day to day life. This is no longer a free country.

Freedom of speech is almost gone, an objective press has gone, my personal freedom is being chipped away at bit by bit.

Watching you lot applaud it is surreal.

--- Post edited by grantus on 24/10 14:29 ---

speckyget Posted on 24/10 14:34
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Directly, directly.

If I sup a pint, or twenty, whilst scoffing a kebab and FEB, the person sitting next to me - or the person who served me - does not inhale carcinogens as a result.

KENDAL Posted on 24/10 14:34
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

If you think you're hard done by Grantus, try living in Iran for a while.

Bukowski_MFC Posted on 24/10 14:37
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

I think it's good that the government are actively encouraging people to stop smoking to be honest.

grantus Posted on 24/10 14:43
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

I agree in that Bukowski_MFC, but educationally, not by prohibition.

Why would I want to live in Iran, I'm not muslim? What's that got to do with the price of bacon anyway?

Drinking 20 pints leads to voilence on teh streets and innocent people being stabbed. Eating fried breakfasts lead to heart attacks and children left without fathers.

If I own the pub, then it should be up to me how I run it.

Install air conditioning by all means, regulate that. That is fair enough.

By the way, this has nothing to do with me being a smoker.

KENDAL Posted on 24/10 14:47
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

There are some people that don't want to be educated on a more healthier lifestyle.

SouthernSmogette Posted on 24/10 14:47
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Please tell me your Iran comments are an elaborate, if not poor wind up Grantus?

BillBones Posted on 24/10 14:48
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

I'd rather people smoked in pubs than drank Magner's cider.

speckyget Posted on 24/10 14:50
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Not sure how to respond without merely repeating the word 'directly' again. I suspect some deliberate selectivity here.

None of the things you have posited automatically happen, plus they are extremes anyway - most people don't drink/gorge to excess, whereas even a moderate smoker will still threaten the health of others. Air conditioning could ameliorate rather than solve the issue, but in any case would be impossible to police.

KENDAL Posted on 24/10 14:51
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

I think Grantus is having a "Grumpy Old Men" day.

grantus Posted on 24/10 14:51
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

So they dont want to be educated, that should be their choice.

Was prohibition successful in America? Has it been successful on the war on drugs?

I'd argue no.

Smogette, not really, the "try living in Iran" comment had no relevence to this conversation.

grantus Posted on 24/10 14:55
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

"Directly", but dont you see, it's all shades of grey? People who are too drunk directly affect others all the time. As do the other things too if you look at them closely enough.

It's a complete shift in the culture of the West, of our nation and I struggle to understand why people are buying it.

It will continue and I dont like it. I dont want to be told what to do, what to think, I want good and bad, I want healthy and unhealthy, I want the freedom to choose for myself.

I don't want to have to sign a waiver to eat a fried breakfast, or go to Asia to smoke a cigarette, or South America to drink some rum.

We are losing are freedom and most people dont even care.

KENDAL Posted on 24/10 14:56
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Yes it did Grantus in so much that you think you're hard done by, I.e. your freedom of speech is being eroded a free press has gone, personal freddoms being eroded. The Iranians don't enjoy nor have they ever enjoyed any of the freedoms we take for granted.

Kilburn Posted on 24/10 14:57
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

One of the main drivers behind banning smoking in pubs is that they are workplaces, and the people who work in them should not have to be be exposed to poisonous fumes while doing their job.

For that reason alone, it is hard to oppose the ban.

I must object to Speckyget's suggestion that those who would have us legalise hard drugs are on the fringes of the 'freedom' spectrum though. Many, such as me, just recognise that persisting with a "war on drugs" that has been about as effective as the "war on terror" is futile, and legalisation and regulation is an option that should be seriously explored rather than dismissed without thought.

Bukowski_MFC Posted on 24/10 14:57
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

This law is being introduced so that people don't have to put up with inhaling fumes which could damage their health at their place of work. It's a GOOD thing. This is not prohibition. If you want to smoke you go outside. Simple.

--- Post edited by Bukowski_MFC on 24/10 14:59 ---

janplanner Posted on 24/10 14:58
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

some pubs have gone down the 'family pub' route, a lot have put plenty of effort into providing outdoor seating and heating and shelter. if anything, all pub goers have benefitted this summer, because now there are tables and chairs outside loads of pubs and bars in the city centre, that just weren't there before the ban.

we'll see how it goes once it gets cold...

grantus Posted on 24/10 15:01
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

They are banning smoking on the streets of inner London.

This is not Iran and as a result comparing it to Iran is irelevent. I'm talking about Britain, my country. Not anywahere else. What they have or do not have has nothing to do with this.

Well then why not have staff sign a waiver if they want to work there? Simple, job done.

So families will sit inside because people will be outside smoking. So teh pubs will have the kids in them and the adults who smoke will be outside.

Boromart Posted on 24/10 15:02
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Forget all that stuff about the effects of alcohol(violance), cars (pollution/accideants), takeaway foods (obeseity/heart disease).

No these all pale into insignificance at the biggest problem cause by cigarettes....pulling a cracking bird, who smokes and knowing at somepoint you are going to stick your tongue down her throat, and get that disgusting 'ashtray' taste, which is going to put you right off.

speckyget Posted on 24/10 15:03
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

'I want the freedom to choose for myself'.

But it's when your 'freedom' impinges on that of someone else. Not all drinkers are drunks, not all drunks are violent - those that are face legal sanction. Despite M Thatcher's assertion that there's no such thing, that's how society works.


Kilburn - fair point, but I was referring to the faction of the Right that would legalise without control/regulation - ie let market forces dictate supply.

KENDAL Posted on 24/10 15:04
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

It's irrellevant for the purpose of your argument Grantus.
What I'm saying is that the people of Britain enjoy freedoms that alot of others in the world only dream of.

Stuar_Tripley Posted on 24/10 15:04
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

ahhh, my heart bleeds for the smokers !!

personally, i can't wait until the ban comes in, smoking's a filthy habit (but then so's gambling and drinking lots of alcohol!)



--- Post edited by Stuar_Tripley on 24/10 15:06 ---

Boromart Posted on 24/10 15:05
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

take that back Tripley, how dare you drag the name of alcohol through the mud like that.

grantus Posted on 24/10 15:06
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

specky, moving to a complete ban on cigerattes is just the same.

Air conditioning? Members clubs? There are loads of ways to provide smoke free environments for people to drink in without banning smoking and alienating smokers.

Why does it have to be one or the other, why cant both be accomodated for?

Stuar_Tripley Posted on 24/10 15:07
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

but i like drinking and gambling boromart ....!

bobstermarley Posted on 24/10 15:08
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

I'm a smoker, though not for much longer.

Having smoked at least 20 a day for god knows how many years, I've decided to put a stop to it at long last. My first smoke free day will be Tuesday 31st October, and I'm gearing up for it now.

I smoked my last full fat Marlboro 2 weeks ago (which was like waving goodbye to an old friend) and since then, have been phasing down through smoking gradually lower doses of Silk Cut.

Last week I was on Silk Cut Blues (which are quite the most unpleasant thing I've ever smoked - 3mg tar, 0.3mg nictoine) and I really got a taste of what nictoine withdrawal is going to be like - had the sweats and the aches on Monday morning.

Unsurprisingly, this week, the Silk Cut Silvers (which used to be called Ultras - 1mg tar, 0.1 mg nicotine) are having little to no effect and I'm only smoking them purely through the habit of having something to do. It's pathetic really, scary though to think that I could smoke 13 of them to ONE full fat Marlboro.

I go cold turkey next Tuesday morning. I'm not bothering with Zyban or NRT. I've never, ever tried to pack up before, but this time, it's me that's driving it, not my other half, which is a real turn up for the books.

I've already noticed my chest loosening up - even though all I've done is drop my tar levels and cut the amount I smoke. My sense of smell has improved dramatically.

I'm actually appalled at how much my office at work smells of stale cigarette smoke, and of course, what with it being a doctors surgery, I don't smoke at work anyway.

My reasons for packing up are numerous and varied however, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the impending smoke ban in pubs.

I watched my father die of a brain tumour when he was 65 years old, secondary cancers to the lungs, though the initial site was his bowel. I nagged my dad to pack up smoking when I was 8 years old and then, like an absolute hypocrite, went and started smoking. I have no desire to end my life, out of it on diamorphine surrounded by my nearest and dearest. I've seen it first hand and it's not pretty.

Me and my other half have estimated that we spend nearly £4000 a year on cigarettes! Every month, we may as well draw out about £300 from the bank and set fire to it.

In the last month and a bit I've already lost over a stone in weight, through eating more carefully (and stress!). I figure that even if I do pack in and start piling on the pounds, I've got to gain at least 1 stone before I'm any worse off. We've both joined a gym and are intending on keeping the weight off.

At the end of the day, I'm looking forward to not being controlled by my addictions. I already can't smoke when I'm at the Riverside, and frankly don't miss it as it used to STINK in the concourse at half time. I don't go out for crafty ciggies at work either.

It's just a crutch that I've had for a long time and it's now time to get rid of it.

As for the smoking ban, I just perceive it as yet another little erosion of civil liberties, which of course I will contradict myself when I'm a non smoker!

grantus Posted on 24/10 15:09
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

KENDAL, less and less as time goes by.

Stuar_Tripley, that's the attitude that I detest I'm afraid. Each to their own I say. I embrace choice, I embrace difference and diversity and peoples right to be annoying and piss me me off and do what they please.

But, I realise that this country is going down the road it is, that it wont wake up, that money and power and corporate influence rule the way we think, the things we do, the products we buy, our aspirations.

That's the way it is. Cest la vie.

Red_Clowne Posted on 24/10 15:10
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

"I'm talking about Britain, my country"

Well Grantus that's where your problem lies - it's OUR country, and we don't want OUR freedom to choose a longer healthy life negated by your freedom to kill yourself.

If you want to smoke yourself to death, fair doos, go ahead but not at the expense of the healthy life of us and the people we hold most dear.


speckyget Posted on 24/10 15:11
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

See above re aircon - would need to set up a particulate police force to implement.

Members' clubs still need staff.

Can't see how banning something in a public place is the same as outright prohibition. The population would have declined alarmingly were that the case.

London_Boro Posted on 24/10 15:16
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

As I non-smoker I hate pubs that are badly filled with smoke, however many of them are not too bad.

But, having spent a weekend in Edinburgh I can say that I cannot wait for the ban to kick in. It was so much nicer getting up the next day and feeling fresh and not smelling a pile of cigarette stinking clothes sat in the room.

Kilburn Posted on 24/10 15:16
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Grantus. By that logic, rather than having health and safety standards at chemical works or at nuclear power stations, employers could simply have workers "sign a waiver if they want to work there".

No more having to provide safety equipment or prevent radiation leaks, just find workers who are so desperate that they are willing to put up with the risk eh?

SouthernSmogette Posted on 24/10 15:18
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Bobmasterly - good luck fella :o)

I gave up in March this year x

grantus Posted on 24/10 15:18
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Red_Clowne, come on, you know that's not what I meant. I want a place that can embrace all.

That you guys want smokers out of sight, banned from anywhere you go, instead of working for a solution that works for both parties is the problem here.

Long_Live_Zombies Posted on 24/10 15:23
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

If anyone can think of anything positive about smoking then I'll be amazed. It might have been the cool thing to do in 50's movies but it has no place in todays society which is obviously why it's being binned.

grantus Posted on 24/10 15:24
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Aye, good luck fella.

Bloody hell, if you dont want to work in a bar that has smokers, then dont, why is that hard?

Row_7 Posted on 24/10 15:27
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

"the people who work in them should not have to be be exposed to poisonous fumes while doing their job."

Why take the job in the first place then?
IMO being exposed to second-hand smoke whilst working in a pub is an occupational hazard - would you be a steeplejack if you were afraid of heights?

I've just come back from Ireland and they DON'T turn a blind eye to it - even out in the sticks where I was. Most of the pubs have installed canopies in the beer garden together with patio heaters and lighting.

Outside of the cities though about 10-15% of the pubs have shut down, mainly due to what little custom they had staying at home 'cos of the ban. I already know of one village pub about 15 miles from Boro that's shutting for good when the ban comes in - he hasn't got a beer garden (or anywhere to create one) and his regulars - about 80% of whom smoke - have already told him they'll either be staying at home or going elsewhere.

How will pubs in the town centre that charge for admission manage?
Places like the Cornerhouse, Chicargo Rock, The Empire etc etc - cetainly don't have beer gardens so will you end up getting charged twice if you nip outside for a swift drag?
Or will they be stamping your hand for readmittance - if you smoke like a chimney your hand could end up like a war-zone at the end of the night.
And what's the bets that some enterprising young chap will duplicate the stamp the clubs use and offer you cheap admission for a couple of quid?

I can see there being shed-loads of trouble when the ban comes in - the bouncers are going to be working overtime.

Long_Live_Zombies Posted on 24/10 15:31
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Just remembered something positive about smoking, I used to weigh about 1 1/2 stone lighter

grantus Posted on 24/10 15:35
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

It's the bigger picture I'm talking about.

Last year fox hunting
This year cigerettes in pubs and public speaking of hatred
Next year will be further inroads, mark my words

The ID cards with retinal scans will be soon.

I have never been a fan of any of the political parties in this country, but I know this much, come the next election, my vote will be aimed at getting labour out.

YodaTheCoder Posted on 24/10 15:38
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

"Last year fox hunting
This year cigerettes in pubs and public speaking of hatred"

I think I've found a solution. Smoker Hunting! Have to give them a BIG head start though. Tally Ho!

KENDAL Posted on 24/10 15:40
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

I have nothing to hide so I'm not worried at all about ID cards.
I don't preach racial hatred.
I think fox hunting is out dated.

boroborob Posted on 24/10 15:42
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Despite the strong arguments based on flimsey evidence of passive smoking and wanting to wear last nights clothes the next day Grantus is making a serious and valid point.

This is a poor issue to make a stand on, because a lot of people are vehemently anti-smoking, and with good reason.

However, it is a classic 'thin end of the wedge' and another example of governmental control where perhaps it isn't desirable.

Smoking in pubs - bad. Smoking in general - bad. Why should you breathe in smoker's second hand fumes? Why, then, should you pay for NHS treatment for the diseases it causes?

And for that matter, why should I pay for treatment for people who fall off a bike, get run over, fall off a ladder? They could have all chosen to sit at home, safe and sound.

The problem is that in this land where we're supposed to hold personal freedom so dear, more and more freedom is being taken away and we are being told how to live our lives.

I suspect that in 30, 40 years time we may look back on these days and our offspring will wonder at all the things that we used to do that we cannot do anymore all in the name of public safety.

Just as the 50's are to now, today is tomorrow's golden age.

Stuar_Tripley Posted on 24/10 15:42
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

let's be honest...people will still get round the ban...a hut will be built in beer gardens and people will smoke there instead. that way you can actually have an effective no smoking area (not like now, where smoke from the smoking area just blows across the pub anyway).

look at the riverside, smoking's been banned, and people continue to smoke away in the bogs anyway!!

I am not preaching in any way grantus, i'm just expressing a personal opinion, i can't wait until the ban comes in because i hate the fact that after 10 minutes in a pub i stink of cigarettes.

br14 Posted on 24/10 15:44
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

bobstermarley - inspirational post. All the best in your efforts to quit. Plus remember the physical effects of withdrawal last 2 weeks only; after that it's more of a social thing - (so my friends tell me).

grantus - cant help but agree with you on the "freedom" point. More and more freedoms are being removed. However, where I live smoking has been banned in public places for several years and so far as I can noone seems to mind too much - so maybe it wont be so bad.

To be honest during the summer going outside into the sun while at work for a smoke with friends seems like quite a pleasant experience. The winter might be a problem.

boroborob Posted on 24/10 15:44
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

And as for ID cards. That's the biggest pi55 take of all. Paying for the privelege of being tagged, tracked and monitored round the clock.

KENDAL Posted on 24/10 15:51
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

The trouble with smoking is that one persons freedom infringes on the other persons.

Row_7 Posted on 24/10 15:53
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

On the subject of ID cards .......

How long after there introduction will the government use them to stop 'binge-drinking'?

Produce your ID card every time youm purchase a pint .... once you've had four pints that's your lot ..... orange juice the rest of the night.
Sounds like it'll never happen but you'd have said the same about smoking five years ago.

grantus Posted on 24/10 15:55
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

No it doesn't. It may annoy someone, it may, after sitting next to a load of smokers for 40 years, have some affect on your health, but it does NOT infringe on your freedom in any way shape or form.

grantus Posted on 24/10 15:56
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Row_7 - This already happens in some clubs.

boroborob Posted on 24/10 15:57
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

It can go further than that, Row_7. Why not use the ID card to make the purchase? Have it linked to my bank account. Some kind of fingerprint or retina scan recognition and woosh money comes out of my bank account and a I'm given my pint.

Maybe they get tougher with the amount of alcohol you can consume a week. More than four units? No NHS treatment for six months.

KENDAL Posted on 24/10 15:59
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

So what you're saying is that it doesn't infringe on my right to got to a pub and enjoy an evening out without inhaling second hand smoke?

boroborob Posted on 24/10 16:05
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Kendal, would a similar and fair point not be that the serving of alcohol in pubs infringes on my right to go out on a night and not be surrounded by violent, drunk anti-social behaviour?

grantus Posted on 24/10 16:06
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

I am not sayin that I am against having cleaner air. Nor am I against no smoking places, I am against a ban on all places from smoking.

Am I talking to myself?

Unless you want to go and be in a smoky atmosphere why would you go and be in a smoky atmosphere? How does it affect you?

If I got offended by strippers would I go to a strippers?

Bloody hell, you people, do you have no concept of compromise?

smoggie_moggie Posted on 24/10 16:08
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

I work in a small village pub, and it's one of a few traditional drinking pubs - hasn't gone down the food route, and obviously we have concerns. It annoys me so much to hear my locals, all farmers and local business men who themselves rely on the support of local trade, huffing and puffing about how they'll stay at home and drink cans so they can have a drink. It's not the landlord's fault - he hasn't made this decision. I think it's shocking that they're are being so stubborn and unsupportive.
I'm not a smoker but I do feel it's wrong that this decision has been forced upon us. I feel a more relaxed rule should be brought in that can be implemented by the landlord, pub company brewery etc. so small traditional pubs like ours can carry on.

Bukowski_MFC Posted on 24/10 16:09
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

They have ID cards in many countries on the continent and in the USA and they are not used to control the amount of alcohol their citizens consume. Some people on here are awash with paranoia it seems.

If introducing ID cards makes this country a safer, securer, more efficiently run place then I'm all for them.

--- Post edited by Bukowski_MFC on 24/10 16:10 ---

boroborob Posted on 24/10 16:12
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

"They have ID cards in many countries on the continent and in the USA and they are not used to control the amount of alcohol their citizens consume. Some people on here are awash with paranoia it seems."

True. And we have ID cards of sorts in the form of new driving licenses.

DNA databse, biometric ID cards - can you seriously not see where this is going?

grantus Posted on 24/10 16:13
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Rubbish, America has nothing of the sort, what countries do? A compulsary ID card, funded by the tax payer at the cost of billions.

Unless you provide me a link, then many apologies.

Row_7 Posted on 24/10 16:14
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

If you had two identical pubs side by side - one smoking and one non-smoking which do you think would be the busier?

It would be the smoking one every time ....... despite what you may read on the various message boards the vast majority of people really aren't that bothered about a little bit of smoke.

Anybody see the figures Witherspoons posted earlier this year?
Profits in their English non-smoking pubs were down 4.5% in six months. They actually said that they wouldn't be making anymore pubs non-smoking until the blanket ban comes in.
Profits in their Scottish pubs have dropped 12% since the smoking ban came in up there - and thats despite a hot summer and a World Cup (both good for trade apparently)
Expect to see a load more English pubs disappear from the estates

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 24/10 16:18
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

We're not losing a freedom. The majority are gaining the freedom to enjoy a beer without having to suffer the pollution of the smoker. The bar staff are gaining the fredom to work in a cleaner environment. The doors of the pub are always open when you want a cigarette, your beer will be there when you get back.

In Ireland, in the sticks where I lived, there was no blind eye to turn. The smokers went outside to the newly built smoking areas, complete with shelters, heating and music, as did a lot of their non smoking companions. It's been like breath of fresh air. Pardon the pun.

There are a lot many narrow minded smokers in this country, but judging by some of the comments above, a lot of smokers who understand the situation too.

Grantus, you're a dinosaur.

boroborob Posted on 24/10 16:20
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Sorry to repeat myself, but how long until I can go out on a night without being subjected to the effects of other people drinking alcohol?

boro_spike Posted on 24/10 16:20
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

The whole smoking thing really makes me laugh, the only argument smokers have for not banning it is "I like smoking"

I have never met a smoker who isn't incredibly selfish; from the smoker who chucks his tabs out the car window or drops them of the pavement to the smoker who will quite happily "spark up" whilst others are eating. Smokers bleat on about their "rights" what about my rights to enjoy an evening out without leaving a pub with my clothes/hair smelling of secondhand smoke or my eye's red and sore ?

So the answer is to install great big air conditioning units? does anyone have any idea how much energy they eat up? we are living in an age where we all should be looking at cutting wasteful energy use and your answer is to have everywhere kitted out with air conditioning !!

You want to kill yourself with smoking fine - you are welcome to do so, but what gives you the right to infect everyone else with your toxic fumes ??

Other favourite comment is "people don't have to work in smoke filled pubs, they can get another job" hmm.. another selfish comment, I know I for one had to take a part-time job in a pub to help make ends meet and as I worked full-time already my options were limited and it was AWFUL !! within a couple of weeks I'd started to develop a "smokers cough" in the mornings - luckily I got to a point where I could pack the job in, but many can't. So just because you can't handle going outside for your "fix" everyone around you should suffer ??

Moving onto drink - I like to drink, I've certainly drank to excess in the past, did that turn me into a brawler? no, why? because that's not in my nature. Drink doesn't cause violence, but drink can lower people's inhabitations which can cause potentially violent people to be more liable to pick a fight. But every cigarettes smoked effects the health of every person within a radius of the smoker.

There is no reasonable argument for not banning smoking within public places, in fact allowing smokers to smoke outside IS a compromise - it would be far easier to just ban it totally, but then people do have the right to smoke themselves to death, just like people have the right to eat and drink themselves to death

But why you think you have the right to try and drag the rest of us with you, is lost on me..............

grantus Posted on 24/10 16:23
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

I am a dinosaur? How is that? Please explain, this one is a decent discussion, so please elaborate.

Boromart Posted on 24/10 16:27
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

the majority of people who drink do not have a negative affect on you, every single smoker hass a negative affect on you.

"Profits in their Scottish pubs have dropped 12% since the smoking ban came in up there"
Its way to early to tell, the world cup would probably have a negative effect on trade in Scotland considering they were not in it. Those that do wish to watch seemed to succumb in their droves to buying a 40"+ LCD screen and watching on that in the comfort fo there home.

KENDAL Posted on 24/10 16:30
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Look, Smoking In Public Places is going to be banned.
GET OVER IT

grantus Posted on 24/10 16:32
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

"I have never met a smoker who isn't incredibly selfish"

From your post there, that seems as though it is an impossibility for you to ever do so.

It is you who has the selfish view my friend. If you read my posts in full you will see that I dont want to piss people off, I want a solution that will suit everyone.

It looks like you, oon the other hand couldn't give a toss about anyone elses opinion.

Row_7 Posted on 24/10 16:34
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

"the world cup would probably have a negative effect on trade in Scotland considering they were not in it."

So you didn't go to the pub to watch a single game that didn't involve England ........ half the Jocks would have been down the pub cheering on England's opposition.


"But every cigarettes smoked effects the health of every person within a radius of the smoker."

Does it?
Would you like to find some conclusive proof?
Cos the medical profession can't


--- Post edited by Row_7 on 24/10 16:43 ---

Boromart Posted on 24/10 16:39
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

that would be the same medical profession that for years refused to acknowledge that smoking kills?

boro_spike Posted on 24/10 16:39
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Grantus - like I said allowing smokers to smoke outisde is the compromise !!! and don't forget the majority of the population DON'T smoke

no-one is saying smokers can't smoke

Who'd of thought 20 years ago that you could stop smoking in offices and cinema's, buses, trains etc and life still went on

Boromart Posted on 24/10 16:40
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

double post sandwich

--- Post edited by Boromart on 24/10 16:40 ---

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 24/10 16:41
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

You're a dinosaur because you're trying to stand in the way in something that will benefit the majority, just because it's gone on for a centuries.

No doubt there were publicans and self proclaimed libertarians such as yourself bemoaning the drinking laws banning the sale of alcohol to children of school age, the staus quo was gone.

Change doesn't always equal progress, but this change is a step in the right direction, it gives those that frequent the public house the freedom to inhale cleaner air.

Boromart Posted on 24/10 16:42
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

thats true, people don't winge about not smoking int he office. Why on earth is it seen as one of those untouchable subjects by smokers.....you can ban me from the office and the cinema, but I will not let you ban me from smoking with my pint. Jeesus, give it 5 years and no-one will remember what the fuss was about.

grantus Posted on 24/10 16:44
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

KENDALL - No need to shout, chill out, have a smoke man.

Row_7 Posted on 24/10 16:45
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

This is a quote by Bill Bryson (the author)which I think sums it up quite nicely (at least from the American point of view anyway):

Nothing better captures the manifest irrationality of people towards risks as one of the liveliest issues of recent years: passive smoking. Four years ago the Environmental Protection Agency released a report concluding that people who are over thirty-five and don't smoke but are regularly exposed to the smoke of others stand a one in 30,000 risk of contracting lung cancer in a given year. The response was immediate and electrifying. All over the USA smoking was banned at work and in restaurants, shopping malls and other public places.
What was overlooked in all this was how microscopically small the risk from passive smoking actually is. A rate of one in 30,000 sounds reasonably severe, but it doesn't actually amount to much. Eating one pork chop a week is statistically more likely to give you cancer than sitting routinely in a roomful of smokers. So, too, is consuming a carrot every seven days, a glass of orange juice once a fortnight, or a head of lettuce every two years. You are five times more likely to contract lung cancer from your pet budgie than you are from secondary smoke.
Now I am all for banning smoking on the grounds that it is dirty and offensive, unhealthy for the user and leaves unsightly burns in the carpet. All I am saying is that it seems a trifle odd to ban it on the grounds of public safety when you are happy to let any old fool own a gun or drive around unbuckled. But then logic seldom comes into these things.

boroborob Posted on 24/10 16:48
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

"Drink doesn't cause violence"

I'm sorry but you're dead wrong there. Alcohol fuels thousands of crimes a year. Of course plenty of people get drunk with no bother, myself included.

But then, there are loads of people who smoke all their lives and live to a ripe old age, my nanna included.

So, smoking doesn't kill everyone who gets a whiff of it, and drink doesn't turn everyone into violent lunatics.

My point about my right to go out on a night without being subjected to the effects of alcohol still stands, and nobody has come up with a reasonable argument as to why I have this basic right infringed upon anytime I go out on a night.

Maybe if they ban alcohol in 15, 20 years time we'll have a similar discussion, with you guys saying 'just get over it, it's becoming law and in a few years you won't know what the fuss was about'.

grantus Posted on 24/10 16:49
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

boro_spike - that is not a compromise at all. The cold, the wind, the rain? Compromise my arse.

I am not trying to prevent change, I actually like change, I wecolme change, but I am considerate for others and not just my own agenda.

If someone wants to smoke in a pub and a landlord wants to let him, there should be ways to allow this to happen that doesn't get all you busy bodies up in arms. That is what I am trying to explore here.

Unfortunately, you seem to have found another bandwagon to jump on and are not interested in solutions, only creating another problem.

I refute the allegations of being a dinosaur.

Boromart, you are correct, it is likely there will be further invasions into our freedom over the next 5 years and in amongst them, we will forget the previous one.

Will they make the world a better place? I seriously doubt it.

Boromart Posted on 24/10 16:59
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Your right of course Grantus, there will be further invasions of our freedom, and far more pervasive ones than this. Which is why I am quite happy for it to happen. Smoking to a non-smoker is particularly disgusting, stale cigarette smoke is the fowlest smell on earth, and the tongue of a smoker is the worst tasting thing in the world.

But I have no problems with people smoking outside, or in there own homes, or even certain designated places.

I do feel the 'smoking bar' could be introduced after a few years, but have had years of all pubs allow smoking, so as a society we should try a period of non-smoking and see if there is still much of an appatite for smoking pubs. My feeling is that after 5 - 10 years of smoking-free pubs, any re-introduction of smoking-pubs would be of limited success.

--- Post edited by Boromart on 24/10 17:04 ---

--- Post edited by Boromart on 24/10 17:04 ---

YodaTheCoder Posted on 24/10 17:08
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

"I am not trying to prevent change, I actually like change, I wecolme change, but I am considerate for others and not just my own agenda."

It's a nice idea G, but it'll never happen. And I don't think it's because we live in a time when our freedoms are being eroded. I think it's because we live in a time when people are being force-fed opinions as fact from one extremist or another.

Be it fox-hunting, smoking bans or Muslim veils, show me people who have looked at the opposing views and arrived at their own considered opinion and I'll show you Britains smallest minority.

grantus Posted on 24/10 17:14
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Me for one.

YodaTheCoder Posted on 24/10 17:16
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

/point

See.

capio Posted on 24/10 17:18
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

I haven't read the thread as we all know what it will say.

Smokers phuq off and take your vile habit with you, if you wish to inflict cancer upon yourself do so in your own home you stinky phuqs, thank you.

Long_Live_Zombies Posted on 24/10 17:21
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

I can't see any possible positive argument that smokers have to go in pubs and blast out their toxic fumes to harm other people - Oops! forgot lack of intelligence and consideration

Link: Nice

YodaTheCoder Posted on 24/10 17:21
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

"I haven't read the thread as we all know what it will say."

Completely wrong actually, we all said "come round my house to smoke, bring a pack for my kids" so shows what you know smartarse!

capio Posted on 24/10 17:25
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Yeah right.

Smoking in public has been made socially acceptable by the governments around the world who make billions in taxes and take bribes from the ‘suits’.
Those days are coming to and end and you cold blooded killers who show no remorse are to be made social outcastes like you should have been 200 years ago.

grantus Posted on 24/10 17:31
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

You would have been hunting witches in the middle ages and slaughtering jews in the second world war. You are a fascist capio. Enjoy it.

capio Posted on 24/10 17:35
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Why would I hunt witches or Jews? They don't make me smell or give me cancer, well unless they're smokers.

As far as I am concerned people can do whatever they want until it starts negatively impacting others.
There is no justification for smoker inflicted their second hand smoke onto others, so ‘they’ can enjoy themselves whilst the rest of us suffer.

--- Post edited by capio on 24/10 17:37 ---

boroborob Posted on 24/10 17:37
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Capio, congratulations on being the one person here unable to formulate some kind of reasoned response and debate in a grown up manner.

Forget passive smoking - i'm worried what I'll catch from being exposed to passive stupidity from reading your post.

grantus Posted on 24/10 17:37
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Suffer? Please!

Go read the thread first, I cant be bothered with you.

boroborob Posted on 24/10 17:39
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Grantus, I know where you're coming from - I don't think you're going to be able to get anybody here to see the bigger picture.

capio Posted on 24/10 17:40
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Borobob clearly your lack of logic is one of the reasons you’re a smoker or have been a smoker.

Uneducated monkey.

boroborob Posted on 24/10 17:40
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Capio - at least read the thread before trying to join in with a grown up discussion.

Can you quote anything I've said that shows a lack of logic or education? You're just full of rhetoric.

I find it amusing that you come out with personal insults. I've seen you get all shirty before when others have done that to you.

Edit: and no, I don't smoke.

--- Post edited by boroborob on 24/10 17:44 ---

capio Posted on 24/10 17:44
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

I couldn’t care less if you killers throw hissy fits, you have been conditioned into believing your destructive and vile habit is socially acceptable whilst the rest of is suffer.

Smoke, take drugs, have sex with your pent guinea pig, dress up as a female clown from Chile and sing land of hope and glory in your bedroom do whatever the phuq you want, I really don’t care, but don’t justify the rest of us suffering for your dirty craving.

Your habit is dirty, it ruins others enjoyment it kills people and thankfully your number has been called, come in boat 1950 your time is up.

grantus Posted on 24/10 17:46
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

I guess you're right boroborob, always worth a try though.

That's the day about done, see you later fellas.

--- Post edited by grantus on 24/10 18:05 ---

boroborob Posted on 24/10 17:47
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

And that's all folks. Was fun while it lasted but Capio and his Big Book Of Rhetoric has spoilt what was a good debate.

Interesting that you think smoking is worse than sexually abusing animals.

capio Posted on 24/10 17:49
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

"Forget passive smoking - i'm worried what I'll catch from being exposed to passive stupidity from reading your post."

"I find it amusing that you come out with personal insults. I've seen you get all shirty before when others have done that to you."

*****************************************
Erm HELLO you insulted me first, quid pro quo biatch. Your style was Argumentum ad hominem.
If you’re polite to me and address my words rather than being personally insulting I will afford you the same respect, if you’re rude I will be rude back, simple really.

capio Posted on 24/10 17:50
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

"Interesting that you think smoking is worse than sexually abusing animals."

I value human life above a rodents so yes I do.

boroborob Posted on 24/10 17:50
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Why address the words of someone who stated they hadn't read any of mine, then called me an illogical uneducated monkey?

Sorry for insulting your post on a message board.

"I value human life above a rodents so yes I do."

Your values aren't compatible with mine, and most of society. Bye :)

--- Post edited by boroborob on 24/10 17:51 ---

capio Posted on 24/10 17:58
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Borobob you didn’t attack my words, I wouldn’t have objected to that, you were rude to me, hence I was rude back, you appear surprised by that, which suggests you have a problem with logic.

This is not equal I did not directly address you or your remarks, thus I don't need to respond in relation to what you may have said, whereas you directly addresses me in an insulting manner. This is the part you appear to be struggling with.

You also assume that you views are those of the masses which is not only arrogant but also silly, then you run away like a little girl.

I am also sure that most of society value human life above a rodents btw.

Huan_Kerr Posted on 24/10 17:59
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Hmmmm
Wonder what contribution Roy Castle would have made to this debate?

grantus Posted on 24/10 18:05
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Not much, he was killed by cancer brought on by playing the trumpet for 40 years. Unfortunatley, deadication wasn't what he needed.

Huan_Kerr Posted on 24/10 18:09
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

I did'nt want to but I smiled at that.

Anyway, you are in the minority.

In a couple of years time when you're stood outside having a puff (not that kind Lisbon) you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

Link: Big Poll.

littlejimmy Posted on 24/10 18:17
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Quality stuff. Grantus battling valiantly against popular opinion, and capio steaming in belatedly like a drunken uncle with baseless assumptions and truculent bluster, with a few latin phrases thrown in for good measure.


karembeu_ca Posted on 24/10 18:21
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

people objected to mandatory seatbelt laws as well when they came in. people are, on the whole, stupid.

it MAY be a slippery slope issue, or further instance of a nanny-state. so be it.

littlejimmy Posted on 24/10 18:34
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Indeed, karembau. We should never have outlawed drink-driving. I mean it might kill the odd innocent person, but come on, it's infringing on the rights and freedom of the individual to do what the hell he likes and bollox to the consequences.

capio Posted on 24/10 18:36
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Damn that's twice this year I have agreed with LJ.

Bukowski_MFC Posted on 24/10 18:44
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

"DNA database, biometric ID cards - can you seriously not see where this is going?"

boroborob - why does it scare YOU so much? If you're a decent law abiding citizen you have nothing to fear. ID cards will help make this country a safer, more efficiently run place.

grantus- maybe people in the USA don't have "ID cards" as such but people are regularly requested to provide ID wherever they go for security reasons which I think is a good idea.

--- Post edited by Bukowski_MFC on 24/10 18:45 ---

sasboro Posted on 24/10 19:00
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

why do the smoking threads create so much discussion? common sense says it should be banned in all public places. Its a health issue that affects the non smokers (the majority) if you want to smoke go outside or do it at home. how do you manage without a smoke at work,in the cinema, on a train or on a plane? why not smoke at work even though you arent allowed to?Smokers are just plain selfish. Just look at the mess they leave with their butt ends. maybe people would be a bit more sympathetic if they disposed of the butt ends properly. its nowt to do with the government as other nations have also gone non smoking. if the irish and scots can do it without a whinge then we can.
we will all look back in 10 years time and think how mad it was to smoke in pubs and stuff. just like how we now look back at smoking in the work place. Basically if you dont like going somewhere you cant smoke then dont go in the place.

TeessideCleveland Posted on 24/10 19:23
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Well said sasboro

Senor_Chester Posted on 24/10 20:05
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

"Those days are coming to and end and you cold blooded killers who show no remorse are to be made social outcastes like you should have been 200 years ago."

That has really infuriated me, a little mug like you capio can come on here and call me that. I have nothing but respect for the non smokers around me and generally compromise when smoking in a pub which is something our Government have not even bothered to do.

If people bothered to scrath the surface instead of beleiving government and media soundbites they would see how little evidence there is on passive smoking.

TeessideCleveland Posted on 24/10 20:08
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

When you go to a pub you and your clothes smell of smoke after - they don't smell of beer unless some is spilt on you
There is a compromise - go outside and have your cigarette then come back in
Smoking is only to be banned in the pub not outside it

Senor_Chester Posted on 24/10 20:13
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Whats this argument for clothes smelling of smoke, don't some people wash their clothes?!

TeessideCleveland Posted on 24/10 20:24
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Of course I wash my clothes
But why should smokers be allowed to make them smell like an ashtray?

littlemissboro Posted on 24/10 20:33
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

I myself am a smoker, I agree that it is not fair for non-smokers to have to inhale second hand smoke when they go for a pint or if they work in a pub. But many pubs have separate areas for smokers that are properly ventalated therfore not affecting non-smokers. This in my opinion works. But its going to happen so we may as well get used to it. The only thing I dont agree with when it comes to banning smoking in certain places, is the fact that the government is planning to ban smoking OUTSIDE council owned buildings. Now that is ridiculous!

MontagueLongfellow Posted on 24/10 20:36
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Itll be farting next, mark my words

TeessideCleveland Posted on 24/10 20:38
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Shouldn't you be practising your snooker?

MontagueLongfellow Posted on 24/10 20:40
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

No need to, did you see how fookin good I was in the last round

Boromart Posted on 24/10 21:17
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Bukowski, you say that "ID cards will help make this country a safer, more efficiently run place".....it isn't as simple as that. What ID schemes do is create a black market for fake ID, and legitimise these fakes in the system. Don't beleive the hype about them. I work around the area of ID theft and can tell you that it will cause as many problems as it will solve. Anyone determined to fake an ID, and involved inorganised crime, can and will do it, and will feel more confidant that they will not get caught.

You also say "maybe people in the USA don't have "ID cards" as such but people are regularly requested to provide ID wherever they go for security reasons". This isn't correct either, there are very few places in the US you are asked for ID, the one area you will always be asked is when entering a bar....but then the locals do a rip roaring trade in fake ID.

Boromart Posted on 24/10 21:23
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

littleJimmy, makes a very valid point. Part of Grantus argument is that it is an infringement on our freedom of choice. As LittleJimmy so elequently pointed out some of our freedoms do need legally restricting.

Surely freedom of choice cannot be a valid argument for smoking in a public bar, because if you won the battle on those morals, where would it end? What other laws would be repealled to allow you to regain some of your civil liberties? Where would it end?

littlejimmy Posted on 25/10 5:36
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Thanks, boromart. However, I would say that I think grantus does have some good points. There should be compromise, such as a completely separate smoker's room where possible, or covered outdoor areas with patio heaters.

Boromart Posted on 25/10 9:27
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

LJ, I agree that there should be a compromise. However for years non-smokers have had no choice, have had no compromise, the choice has been go to the pub and inhale second hand smoke, or don't go to the pub. The shoe will be on the other foot now. Freedom of choice hasn't existed for the majority for a very long time.

For 5 or 6 years a complete ban in bars and resteraunts would for me be acceptable, as an experiment.

The smokers argument is that people want to smoke and its their choice to. But smoking is an irrational habit, rather than a choice. So any crys of limitation of freedom from the smoking brigade are driven by the fear of a lack of nicotine. Smokers should be thanking us for helping them have an excuse to break this habit, and the anecdotes from Scotland and Ireland are that many people have taken this opportunity to stop and are happy for it.

Maybe 5 or 6 years down the road, if smoking areas were reintroduced then you would find that they would not be very popular, as many people had stopped or broken the relationship between smoking and drinking?

--- Post edited by Boromart on 25/10 9:28 ---

susy Posted on 25/10 9:48
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

I cant wait for the smoking ban to come in, ive been out in Dublin and it was fantastic to come back to our hotel and go to bed without having to wash my hair first because it stank of smoke. No one is banning smoking, they are just making it more difficult. This will hopefully encourage people to give up.

I gave up smoking a few years ago after watching a man in his late 30's die from a heart attack, the Drs told me the most likely cause of someone this age was due to him smoking! It was really horrible.

I also found the ash website gave good advice and tips to help stop if anyone else needs some help.

capio Posted on 25/10 9:59
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

"Those days are coming to and end and you cold blooded killers who show no remorse are to be made social outcastes like you should have been 200 years ago."
****************************

'That has really infuriated me'

**************************************

Truth hurts huh?

grantus Posted on 25/10 11:30
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

So, because you have had to put up with smoking, smokers should put up with non smoking for 5 or 6 years. Really, the selfishness and vindictiveness of some people.

"So any crys of limitation of freedom from the smoking brigade are driven by the fear of a lack of nicotine." What a complete load of rubbish. Obviously you dont have a clue what you are on about. Are you saying that all smopkers think alike? Hmmmmm, clever.

jimmy, the undercover, heated outdoor area is a compromise for those that choose to do it and more importantly, have the space to do it. That is not all public houses, what about the others? Tough luck, watch your business fold?

All the great stories about Ireland and Scotland? Well I disagree, all I hear is about how it's not as good anymore, worse atmospheres, empty pubs, particularly in Ireland.

This has been done to death now. I've made my point clear. I dont object to protecting people from the terror of passive smoking, in fact I agree to an extent. I just think that smokers should and could be properly catered for, I also think landlords should have the choice of what they do with their premises.

For me people should be able to smoke and get paraletic drunk if they want to. The freedom we are losing year by year is really pissing me off.

Interesting that Labour is the lowest it has ever been in the opinion polls for 20 years. Tory governemnt next, fingers crossed.

Hopefully it wont bother me either way, for although I love our country, I hope to be long gone as soon as I can.

Good day ladies and gentlemen.

--- Post edited by grantus on 25/10 11:31 ---

littlejimmy Posted on 25/10 12:03
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Thinking of emigrating, grantus? You'd love it here. They let you smoke in all the restaurants. In fact, it's pretty much compulsory.

And if the Tories get back in, I won't be coming back for a long, long time.

grantus Posted on 25/10 12:05
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Not exactly, I'm entering into the desperate to phase these days.

not Dubai though, my ex girlfriend is moving there next month funnily enough.

Australia for me mate, always was.

KENDAL Posted on 25/10 12:07
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Fancy a bit of culture then Grantus.

grantus Posted on 25/10 12:13
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

No, I'll miss a lot of our culture, especially the football, the opera, the ballet and the London Symphony Orchestra.

I lived in Sydney for 3 1/2 years, I want the weather and the lifestyle. I miss it and as I get older, am still not married, still have no children, that I should be where I want to be, not where others are.

KENDAL Posted on 25/10 12:16
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

I wouldn't mind doing that meself, I don't blame you.

Boromart Posted on 25/10 12:20
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Grantus, I am not taking a vindictive stance on forcing smokers to go by our rules. I am saying that the majority of people have had to live by the smokers rules for a long time, so you cannot really complain if the tables are turned.


Regarding lack of fear of nicotine. I am not saying that ALL smokers think alike, but some. You cannot prefix every statemnt in a debate like this with 'the vast majority of' or some other phrase otherwise every response will be 2 pages long.

Regarding businesses going bankrupt, how many in Dublin and Edinburgh have gone out of business? No more than usual?

Atmosphere in non-smoking pubs? Wellpeopel don't like change, and will whinge till the cows come home when it happens. These things take a couple of years to bed in, but its a subjective statement. For every person that hates it, you will find someone that loves it. There have been several poeple on this thread and others that have stated how much better it is.

I hear what you are saying about landlords having the choice of allowing smoking...but in the current climate they will keep the status quo. By having a 5 or 6 year period of non-smoking it will give the landlords and the public the ability to compare life in a smoking and non-smoking pub. At the moment the fear of change will amke all pubs smoking if you put the choice in the landlords hands.

Blaming things on labour is a bit off topic, but sometimes its better the devil you know. The Torys are just as bad.

"for although I love our country, I hope to be long gone as soon as I can." keep chuggin away and I'm sure your wish will come true

--- Post edited by Boromart on 25/10 12:20 ---

--- Post edited by Boromart on 25/10 12:21 ---

BoroG_85 Posted on 25/10 12:29
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

i work in a pub and the ammount of people who smoke at the bar is shocking.. BAN IT!!!

mf_c Posted on 25/10 12:46
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

boro_spike : I have never met a smoker who isn't incredibly selfish; from the smoker who chucks his tabs out the car window or drops them of the pavement"

Can yo do me a favour and walk through any high street and tell me how many ash trays are there for smokers to stub their cigs out in ? My guess would be none, so on the floor they go.

As for the ban it doesn't bother me. I'll go to a pub with a smoking area outside. If they don't have one I won't go in. Really simple.

Boromart Posted on 25/10 12:57
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

"As for the ban it doesn't bother me. I'll go to a pub with a smoking area outside. If they don't have one I won't go in. Really simple." I guess that is the same choice non-smokers have had to make...find a non-smoking pub - there are none, find a pub that isn't too smokey - not many, or a beer garden - some. Alternative stay at home.

grantus Posted on 25/10 12:58
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

No, only the fussy feckers. Most non smokers dont mind so long as it's not a really smokey atmosphere. When it is smokey, it bothers most smokers too.

--- Post edited by grantus on 25/10 12:59 ---

karembeu_ca Posted on 25/10 13:24
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

grantus, while you have somne valid points in principle, your basic argument is that you, and the landlords, should have a choice which your smoking denies the non-smoker. so it's not a freedom of choice issue, as you want to deny choice to the smoker.

grantus Posted on 25/10 13:29
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

No I dont. I believe that there can be choice for all. I know it's a long thread, but I've covered this already somewhere.

--- Post edited by grantus on 25/10 13:30 ---

karembeu_ca Posted on 25/10 14:14
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

yes, you have talked about compromise, but you have talked about it being a choice issue far more.

it is a bit selfish of us non-smokers to ask for it 100% our way, but that's only because it has been 100% the smokers way for so long - but of course two wrongs don't make a right

as was stated, repealing things can lead to the same slippery slope that banning them can, but I still think I would rather err on the side of the nanny state. my wife worked in a restaurant when they brought in the no smoking regulations here, and the owner was able to designate a specific room as a smoking area - actually as a private club, but it didn't last long, and the regulars soon adapted. people don't like change, and and don't like being told what to do, even if it is in their best interest, and everyone elses around them.

grantus Posted on 25/10 14:20
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Aye, it'll all be forgotten about soon enough unfortunately, every time the nanny state takes away a toy, it will always be forgotten about by the masses.

I still think it's not far off fascism these days.

KENDAL Posted on 25/10 14:21
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

How would you define a "really smokey atmosphere" then Grantus as opposed to a smokey one.

Really Smokey - You're choking
Smokey - You're coughing non stop

Am I near?

grantus Posted on 25/10 14:22
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

No you are not and you know you are not, so stop being a silly bugger.

Huan_Kerr Posted on 25/10 14:28
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Stop being over-dramatic Kendal, stick to the facts.
If you work in a pub...

Very Smokey, you could die quicker of a smoking related illness

than

Smokey, you wont die as quick of a smoking related illness.

karembeu_ca Posted on 25/10 14:29
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

you are being a bit far fetched with fascist, Che Grantus

while there are plenty who are intelligent enough to watch out for themselves, the government is forced to regulate the rest - which keeps them in the gene pool longer, and costs more, but is the PC thing to do.

as an aside, how would you classify the 1 child policy that a country like China has? there is obvious need for it, and it happens in nature of course, but that would seem REALLY offensive if Blair came out with that one in Britain, wouldn't it!

grantus Posted on 25/10 14:31
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

I think all children should have the snip and apply for a licence to have it reversed when they want children.

karembeu_ca Posted on 25/10 14:35
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

and if you wear a hoodie or have a criminal record you dont get the licence - i'm liking that idea

in reality, there are plenty of ways you culd improve society for the majority, but that dont get implemented. I'd say that neutering certain dregs of society would be one, but that would never fly either. there has to be some moral consciousness about it I guess. its hard enough discussing it on here, and we get at the govt who actually have the balls to do it.

Boromart Posted on 25/10 14:43
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

I'm with you on that one Grantus.

Senor_Chester Posted on 25/10 20:40
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

What I am more annoyed and worried about is the blase attitude of our elected Government 'servants'. Has the ban been brought in to help the poor victims of passive smokers or to help stop these smokers who are too thick to make their own choices? I'd imagine neither since they happily send teenagers off to Iraq to get executed and give them litte support if they return with Gulf war syndrome. You ask a bloke who is suffering now from years of working down the mines what the Government think of looking after his health or the countless elderly who freeze to death each winter.

So it's been done to stop peoples clothes smelling when they get home?, well they do vote. I have honestly in the real world never heard anyone complain about the smell of their clothes or recoil in disgust when someone lights up near them.

The non smokers will love it as an idea as they will now beleive some nasty smoker is not killing them (they weren't anyway) and the middle classes will lap it up as they generally look down on the working classes who will have the far greater percentage of smokers.

At the end of the day it's a vote winner for them. God bless them.

janplanner Posted on 25/10 21:03
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

there are lots of ashtrays on the streets of edinburgh, every litter bin has one on top, or a stubby-out bit, then you put the butt in the bin. also most pubs have them fixed onto the outside wall by the door. and there's a number you can text to get a pocket ashtray, so you can put the butt in it to take with you to empty into a bin.

dropping cigarette ends is littering, just the same a dropping crisp packets.

karembeu_ca Posted on 25/10 21:06
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

"I have honestly in the real world never heard anyone complain about the smell of their clothes or recoil in disgust when someone lights up near them."

you aren't looking hard enough then.

janplanner Posted on 25/10 21:11
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

another thing, i learnt at a briefing today that of the pubs that have gone out of business in scotland since the ban, the vast majority where on the verge of closing their doors anyway, because business was already bad. so although the ban might have been the final nail, it is not going to be the cause of closure in most cases.

any pub owner/manager with a modicum of inteligence is going to go out of his way to provide some shelter for smokers, and so are the brewers. there are some lovely branded canopies, parasols and heaters available!

boro_matt Posted on 25/10 21:14
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Anyone know when the ban comes into effect?

James_Booth Posted on 25/10 21:20
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

banning fox hunting was the RIGHT thing to do so stop moaning about it. it got rid of a cruel vile 'sport' where they kill animals for fun.

as for smoking im 50-50 with the ban i see both sides-ish.

janplanner Posted on 25/10 21:27
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

april in wales and august in england, i think.

Grumpy_Paul Posted on 26/10 0:45
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

In principal I'm with Grantus on this one. A lot of the anti smoking posters on here are so tunnel visioned and single minded they fail to see the point he is making or deliberately avoiding it. He is supporting choice.It's not about smoking, it's about the nanny state and big brother. Leave the decision to the landlords then economics will decide. That way there will be some smoking pubs and there will be some non smoking pubs then you will have the choice of which to patronise, no one will force you into a smokers pub.

Oh and by the way, when you drive your cars and fly away on your foreign holidays you are DIRECTLY affecting other people, on a WORLD WIDE SCALE. You are actively changing the meteorology of the planet, BIG STYLE. Your Pizza and Kebab waste is polluting our streets and the drunken behaviour of many is at times creating carnage in our towns and cities.

Another victory for the 'Ban it' brigade, I hope you are proud and I hope you can tell me where it ends. Watch out you fishers of men and anglers, your turn is coming soon, whether you smoke or not.

Grumpy_Paul Posted on 26/10 2:03
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Planner

"any pub owner/manager with a modicum of inteligence is going to go out of his way to provide some shelter for smokers, and so are the brewers. there are some lovely branded canopies, parasols and heaters available!"

I want to go into a pub to be in the pub, not to be under a canopy where there is a patio heater actively contributing towards global warming. With a little common sense and goodwill every view can be accomodated. The problem here is that many people want to impose their will on others regardless of alternative and reasonable soloutions

littlejimmy Posted on 26/10 5:37
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Smokers are environmentalists now are they? Do me a favour!

The point people keep making about choice and freedom is an interesting one. But the people who oppose the ban are only interested in their OWN freedom and choice. Why do they (the minority) have the freedom to harm other people's health, but the majority aren't allowed the freedom to enjoy a smoke-free environment? People are so bloody caught up in this "I have RIGHTS" BS, but fail to realise that rights come with responsibilities.

dibs72 Posted on 26/10 6:42
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

I live in Norway and have done for over two years. When I return to Teesside (as i did this Sunday... GET IN THERE!!!) I am actually a little shocked when I walk into the local and see hoards of people with tabs in their hands. It almost seems backward now, even barbaric. It's amazing how easliy you get accustomed to things. In a few years time, even the most hardend and saddest of nicotine addicts will be wondering how they got away with it for so long in this, the 21st century.

I'd probably spend the 1000's of pounds a year to 'smerk tabs' if they actually did anything more for you than give you a slightly worse hang over and made your breath stink. Give yer heads a shake... you don't need em.

I highly reccommend crystal meth as a tasty alternative.

grantus Posted on 26/10 10:57
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Thank you Grumpy_Paul.

capio Posted on 26/10 14:28
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

"The problem here is that many people want to impose their will on others regardless of alternative and reasonable soloutions"


Au contraire we don't want to enforce or perhaps inflict is a better word anything upon you; we just want to be left alone without YOU inflicting your stinky smoke on us.

Just the fact that it is coming back out of peoples stinking mouths is enough to make me want to vomit.

grantus Posted on 27/10 9:58
re: Smoking ban in English Pubs

Funny that. Most of the stuff that comes out of your mouth makes people want to vomit too.