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benboro1985 Posted on 27/7 6:32
According to SSN

Boro are the only club in the league to be down on season ticket sales

Oh great

ovy1 Posted on 27/7 7:32
re: According to SSN

Yeh, I saw that. Does anybody know how much we've sold? Surely we've got to be getting more than the likes of Reading who have sold 18,000?!

The_Commisar Posted on 27/7 7:50
re: According to SSN

Big problems are

Prices to high for whats being offered
Negative publicity
Availability of lower cost alternative
Size of population

We can do something about the first one, perhaps the second one (getting that gobschiite Slaven off the radio is a good move).
The others ?
Doubt it

OnlyPepperoni Posted on 27/7 8:01
re: According to SSN

Size of population is a reason for our downturn in season ticket sales?

Have we had a tsunami or increase in smoggy abductions like?

Bukowski_MFC Posted on 27/7 8:01
re: According to SSN

I also think the departture of Viduka will have had an effect, if you take into account the innate pessimism of the average Teessider.

Bukowski_MFC Posted on 27/7 8:04
re: According to SSN

"Size of population is a reason for our downturn in season ticket sales? Have we had a tsunami or increase in smoggy abductions like?"


To be fair, Teesside does suffer from the brain-drain syndrome where many people feel obliged to leave the area for work reasons, nevermind personal reasons. I know many of my friends who have done this. And I've emigrated.

The_Commisar Posted on 27/7 8:06
re: According to SSN

Moose/Lisbon/Pep <- delete/add as applicable
if you only have a limited number of potential customers to work with, then it doesn't take many people changing their mind to make a big difference to numbers. We do not have the catchment area.

--- Post edited by The_Commisar on 27/7 8:07 ---

OnlyPepperoni Posted on 27/7 8:06
re: According to SSN

So 6,000 seaason ticket holders have left Teesside? Bloody hell, there'll be noone left in a couple of years....

OnlyPepperoni Posted on 27/7 8:08
re: According to SSN

"if you only have a limited number of potential customers to work with, then it doesn't take many people changing their mind to make a big difference to numbers. We do not have the catchment area."

Bol_locks. Size of population has nothing to do with an upturn or downturn in season ticket sales.

--- Post edited by OnlyPepperoni on 27/7 8:09 ---

simon1586 Posted on 27/7 8:09
re: According to SSN

Ad understanding of fan base and general handing of PR to the list.

The_Commisar Posted on 27/7 8:10
re: According to SSN

Go on then, how is it boll0xs Einstein ?
If you have a catchement area of 150k and 5k change their minds the effect is the same as a catchment area of 500k and 5k change their minds is it ???

We have a small catchment area.

Any change in mood/mindset will have a disproportionate affect - more "marginal voters"

--- Post edited by The_Commisar on 27/7 8:11 ---

Unbelievable_Jeff Posted on 27/7 8:10
re: According to SSN

You can rattle of any number of stats about population etc but the simple fact is that it hasnt been good enough the last couple of years, a uefa cup run aside which has nothing to do with season ticket sales. When we start playing attractive football again, which i hope we do shortly, then the people will come back.

simon1586 Posted on 27/7 8:12
re: According to SSN

It is fair to say that the football has in general been poor, bottom line.

OnlyPepperoni Posted on 27/7 8:14
re: According to SSN

You have missed the point though, you were saying it was a reason for a downturn in season ticket sales. Which it isn't. Your point is concerning the magnitude of the down turn rather than the route cause.

We've always had round about the same population and it is bigger than other Premiership teams plus we don't have any big clubs in the neighbouring vicinity.

SouthStandSY Posted on 27/7 8:15
re: According to SSN

IMO it`s partly due to our failure to build on Eindhoven, sure we`re still ambitious, we still sign quality players, BUT it`s only ever to replace players, when we should`ve been adding to the ones we already had, resulting in us going from UEFA cup finalists to mid table/potential relegation material, people have started to notice this and are gradually losing faith, if the club is going slowly backwards,it`s fair to assume the fanbase will dwindle accordingly!......

OnlyPepperoni Posted on 27/7 8:15
re: According to SSN

The major factor is value for money plus there is disenchantment about the game in general. Oh and the 3 legends....

--- Post edited by OnlyPepperoni on 27/7 8:16 ---

holgateoldskool Posted on 27/7 8:20
re: According to SSN

I love how some on here love to defend the indefensible.Many have challenged me when I have raised the thorny subject on attendances citing a downward trend in football and we are just a part of it.

The unpalatable truth is we have a large percentage of very fickle fans - moreso than most other clubs.

Gibbo must be pulling his hair out at this news.

SouthStandSY Posted on 27/7 8:26
re: According to SSN

Then Gibbo/Lamb wanna stop letting the Zenden`s/Vids walk away and complete mooted deals for the likes of Geremi/Appiah, then people might believe our club is going places and back `em with their hard earned cash......

The_Commisar Posted on 27/7 8:26
re: According to SSN

Pep, the point I was making (badly it would appear) is that we only have a small pool to fish in and that any changes in mood amongst that pool will have a large affect.

I agree with you re the 3 Legends, the relentless negative publicity is hard to deal with.

I hope Gibbo let Century know they were biting the hand that fed them, and then pulled the plug on the contract with them.

Other teams in the area, The nearest teams we have to compete are in the PL are the makems and the barcodes, and there is no way that we would get fans swapped between those.
Between us and Leeds theres a lot of sheep and not a lot else. We do get some fans from Harrogate/Northallerton (tractors in the car park are a giveaway). But not a lot else.

zaphod Posted on 27/7 8:27
re: According to SSN

3 points: (1) The population of Middlesbrough is currently increasing, so that doesn't explain it. (2) With plenty of seats available on matchday, there's little incentive to get a st and a big incentive to pick and choose games. (3) The re-branding obviously hasn't had a noticeably positive impact.

TeeSv Posted on 27/7 8:31
re: According to SSN

I was told about a week ago that we had sold just over 18,000

simon1586 Posted on 27/7 8:31
re: According to SSN

The "spectacular" debacle can hardly have helped either.

Unbelievable_Jeff Posted on 27/7 8:32
re: According to SSN

holgate you cant blame it all on the fans. the fact is we havent progressed and more and more people are sick of forking out for mediocre football.

--- Post edited by Unbelievable_Jeff on 27/7 8:32 ---

sasboro Posted on 27/7 8:33
re: According to SSN

league form has been poor last couple of seasons. resting players too much in league in the uefa cup seasons had a negag=tive effect on season ticket holders. you dont need a season ticket for big games anymore such as an fa cup semi final. price of tickets are too high for the area. morfe people pick and choose games. in last 12 months interest rates have gone up maybe some people have to cut back with mortgages to pay and high house prices.people move away for jobs but there are no people coming in to take their place as we have an ageing season ticket population. slaven has nowt to do with it as season ticket holders are at games rather than sat listening to radio. club now seems happy to stay midtable but a lot of fans want to be more ambitious. as already mentioned we didnt build on the uefa cup final, we took steps back. Viduka signing for the mags will have a negative effect

zaphod, population on middlesbrough isnt increasing at all.

--- Post edited by sasboro on 27/7 8:34 ---

b0r0lad Posted on 27/7 8:34
re: According to SSN

slaven has nowt to do with it as season ticket holders are at games rather than sat listening to radio.

he was on 5 nights a week pandering to the fickle and fey.

TheSmogMonster Posted on 27/7 8:37
re: According to SSN

They should have lowered prices (sorry if I keep harping on about this).

Its unaffordable for people who arn't Boro fans to get to games and become boro fans.

Its unaffordable for young lads to get into it.

And like zaphods point 2.

Winston_Spangler Posted on 27/7 8:39
re: According to SSN

Over the last ten years our attendences have been at the very top of the list when it comes to local population. Look at other teams in similar sized towns. Blackburns, Boltons etc. We're just losing the boom fans that jumped on the bandwagon post 1996.

TeeSv Posted on 27/7 8:39
re: According to SSN

I don't know why people are surprised, many on here predicted it, even the club announced that season tickets would be down on last year. As to the reasons why, only those who have not renewed can explain this

OnlyPepperoni Posted on 27/7 8:41
re: According to SSN

Commi, I accept that and agree that we do have a vastly fluctuating fan base for many reasons, population/Catchment area being one of those reasons as you suggested.

simon1586 Posted on 27/7 8:41
re: According to SSN

No club can expect to have etirely tame media who utter nothing but glowing positives.Slaven is a reflection of a signifcant part of the population who don't like what they have been offered, are voting with their feet and have been able to pick and chose games for most seasons that the Riverside has been in existance.

--- Post edited by simon1586 on 27/7 8:43 ---

BoroMod Posted on 27/7 8:43
re: According to SSN

Plenty of Boro fans prefer to watch the games in the pubs, we've all got mates who do it. I've got mates who are just out of the habit of going, it's easy to get them back into the habit.

Kilburn Posted on 27/7 8:45
re: According to SSN

Most of the reasons have been identified above, but as for what to do about it, it would really help if there was a crackdown on the pubs showing the game illegally.

At the moment, even if caught they get a caution, and then only if they re-offend do they get a fine of up to £5000.

If it was a straight £5000 fine for any pubs caught showing the game on Saturday afternoon, then a few weeks of enforcement would soon stamp it out. Not many landlords can afford to be paying out £5000 fines.

borobabe2007 Posted on 27/7 8:47
re: According to SSN

according to a very good source from inside the club who has told me we have sold under 14000 season tickets.To stop all this why doesnt Mr Lamb come out and tell the truth they know exactly the amount of tickets sold.

TeeSv Posted on 27/7 8:47
re: According to SSN

BoroMod - agree with most of what you are saying, I'm seeing the same but getting them back into the habit of going again doesn't seem that easy to me, once they've started a new habit i.e watching the matches in the pub

Gooks_Dong Posted on 27/7 8:49
re: According to SSN

How the fook are people blaming the 3 Legends / Slaven? People see with their own eyes, they dont need Slaven to tell them. Fact is its a couple of internal and external factors (most of which have been said):

Internal : 1) token gesture should have been made to reduce season ticket prices, even by £2 a game, so £38. 2) After another mediocre season and then the loss of Viduka to a local rival has undoubtedly had a negative effect (I agree we should have let the greedy fatcoont go btw)3) The bubble has burst on the matchday experience

External : 1) Most games on a TV channel / internet somewhere 2)I think interest rates have had an effect, and with future rises probable, some folks who were 50/50 are just sitting tight at the moment

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 27/7 8:49
re: According to SSN

Poor to watch and too expensive. Now that a few have drifted, it means a lot more don't 'have' to buy a season ticket. Nothing to do with the population. I've talked to quite a few 'drifters' of my age over the past year or so. The reasons given are generally the same.

I'm very surprised that we're the only club to drop.

sasboro Posted on 27/7 8:49
re: According to SSN

b0r0lad, easy to deflect blame onto a 3rd party isnt it. You would think most season ticket holders would judge things from what they see with their own eyes at the game. fact is boro didnt take our league form seriously at home during the fa cup runs, i know some season ticket holders who that p1 ssed off. remember man city at home last season? rested players.plenty of cr ap home defeats in last 3 seasons. last season only bolton, watford and chelsea stand out as home wins. you cant expect people to buy season tickets and then rest players in a few games. it was discussed on here at the time that resting players too much in league games will hit season ticket sales and i think its starting to show now.

The_Commisar Posted on 27/7 8:50
re: According to SSN

OP, not a problem. I think everyone agrees something needs to be done. But do we have the imagination in the club to do it ?

heaton_mersey_boro Posted on 27/7 8:51
re: According to SSN

Winston has a good point.

Also, our core fan base of normal working class folk are being priced out, and can watch the match in a pubs all over Teesside.

How many do this every week - couple of thousand more / less?

Add to the fact the brainwashing of Sky, saturation of football on TV and other media sources, un-competitive nature of the PL, the "Holy Grail" of the Champions League moving further and further away.......think a lot of folk are simply píssed off in general and sadly Boro could be taking a bit of the backlash because of this.

Also add to the general pessimistic outlook of a lot of Teessiders........easy to understand why we have lost a few thousand ST holders.

It is up to Boro now to attract these fans back, and to start with improving the product on the pitch in the first step. Then reducing prices, listening to the fans etc should follow.

fatharrywhite Posted on 27/7 8:54
re: According to SSN

who gives a toss how many season tickets we've sold??? it's about how many turn up on a saturday afternoon not how many have bought in advance.

we'll still average 25,000ish next season and what difference does it make if it's 5k, 10k, 15k, 20k that are made up of season tickets?

The juninho/ravanelli years coincided with a general boom in football and the sell outs then we're out of kilter with anything i've seen in my 25 years of following the boro.

25,000 average is a VERY good average for a town of the size of middlesbrough and the simple fact is that like it or not our core support is in the 15k region not 25k.

The only people that are bothered about the size of the crowd are those who cant take the gerodies and mackems having a go at our crowd size, i couldnt care less if only 10k turned up on a saturday as it's what happens on the pitch that matters. you dont win prizes for filling your stadium each week.

Sleaford_Socialite Posted on 27/7 8:56
re: According to SSN

The decline has been obvious for a while, the club had an excellent oppourtunity to do something about this knowing we were going to be getting an extra £20-£25 million at the end of the upcoming season, they didn't. They should of knocked £75-£100 off the price of all season tickets, I'm posotive this would have ensured a jump in sales. The financial impact on the club would probably have been around £2-£3 million in lost income, but some of this could have been made back in increased concourse sales.

mickbrown Posted on 27/7 8:57
re: According to SSN

Not reducing prices must be a bit of a slap in the chops for you lot especially when every other bugger is doing it.

For a supposed man of the people, your chairman doesn't seem to listen to you.

kermit_the_smog Posted on 27/7 8:58
re: According to SSN

Boro won't reduce the prices.

So much negativity around the Boro in recent years. The Riverside can be a boring place to go. Hardly anyone singing, as soon as one pass is miss placed there's groans and shouting from the stands.

Away games have been the best games to go to for ages now if you want a bit of atmosphere.

Even against Bolton last season, we were winning 5-1 and there wasnt much singing, apart from a few funny songs for Fat Sam.

--- Post edited by kermit_the_smog on 27/7 8:59 ---

TheSmogMonster Posted on 27/7 8:59
re: According to SSN

fatharrywhite, I care about it because alot of our fan base would go, but are priced out, and whats the club for, if not not fans?

borogrape Posted on 27/7 9:02
re: According to SSN

If that report on SSN is correct then it is certainly sad news and I agree that it would be very frustrating indeed for those running Boro. I have always felt that, with the sole exception of the mid 90's, Boro have never, certainly since the mid 50's, had the following of as many fans as might be thought reasonable. I am not wholly convinced by any argument of constraint based on Middlesbrough's population since the population of the Tees region probably exceeds half a million and this is surely the number that ought to be considered rather than the population of Middlesbrough itself. It might well be that the economic depression which continues to some extent to grip the region is a factor. However fickleness (which might also be interpreted as the principle local pastime of taking every opportunity to bad-mouth Boro) must be right up there as a possible cause. In any event all one can hope is that in the end it is the football that brings back the fickle fans or generates new fans - and I personally think that this will be one heck of a good season for Boro.

Turner_86 Posted on 27/7 9:03
re: According to SSN

Why should we reduce the prices? The prices are fair, they are good prices compared to the rest of the Premier league, and the rest of the Premier league are selling well.

Middlesbrough fans need to get their heads out of their arses and realise MFC is a business that needs to make money, fans don't deserve anything for free, the football is equally as good as the rest of the Premiership and the club needs the support of the town. Some of our fans don't deserve a Premiership club.

You can argue back as much as you like, but I'm not having any of it, some of our fans are just ignorant excuse making tools.

Cobain_94 Posted on 27/7 9:04
re: According to SSN

"Not reducing prices must be a bit of a slap in the chops for you lot especially when every other bugger is doing it."

People use that as an excuse mick, if they reduced the prices people still wouldn't go. Meaning of course that we wouldn't be able to compete at all financially.

It doesn't bother me as long as they don't go up too much. Say they reduce it to £350, £40s hardly alot over a year.


--- Post edited by Cobain_94 on 27/7 9:06 ---

mickbrown Posted on 27/7 9:06
re: According to SSN

Turner - you're watching the same "product" and paying more. How's that fair? Especially now that the game is even more awash with money and price cut could only be good PR.

fatharrywhite Posted on 27/7 9:07
re: According to SSN

Prices are the same as last year, in fact they've stayed the same for the last 3 seasons. You telling me that all these people suddenly cant afford it?

You're also forgetting that all these fans want 'spectacular signings'. They've got to be paid for somehow.

KL said at the radio cleveland forum that ST prices are at their peak and they will start to go down. The only reason that they were kept the same was to cover all the costs of players contracts etc..until the bigger TV deal appears

Turner_86 Posted on 27/7 9:07
re: According to SSN

We're not paying more, our season ticket prices have been frozen for the second year running and plenty of clubs in the PL have higher prices than we do.

Sleaford_Socialite Posted on 27/7 9:08
re: According to SSN

Why should we reduce the prices?

Because a lot of people can't afford to go?

The club can easily afford to miss out on a couple of million with the increase in the TV deal.

Brick_Tamland Posted on 27/7 9:09
re: According to SSN

"Some of our fans are just ignorant excuse making tools".

I agree with that, sad as it is.

Turner_86 Posted on 27/7 9:09
re: According to SSN

It's in the clubs best interests that they convince the fans that the current prices are value for money by performing on the pitch and get fans back, than reduce the prices and still get similar crowds.

The fact is, for many the prices are just an excuse, and it won't make one jot of difference.

Cobain_94 Posted on 27/7 9:09
re: According to SSN

The games awash with money. I'd rather use that money to see a better team rather then pay a little bit less for want of being a tight c_unt.

heaton_mersey_boro Posted on 27/7 9:09
re: According to SSN

Turner - I take it you are a young lad, no kids, live at home with parents etc?

Really sorry to break the news to you, but a lot of families on Teesside cannot afford a couple of grand every year for Season Tickets.

Think about it.

captain5 Posted on 27/7 9:10
re: According to SSN

We've just got a very cynical nature on Teesside.

People aren't impressed very easily any more.

We saw it when we played in Europe.

Lazio at home, sir. Guaranteed sell out?? - erm, no.

Sporting Lisbon at home, massive game, surely close to sell out - jog on.

Did our season ticket numbers and attendances shoot up when we finished in our highest position in modern times, three years ago?? - no.

Gooks_Dong Posted on 27/7 9:10
re: According to SSN

Of oourse prices make a difference, its the basic law of economics, price v units. Human nature means that if you walk past a shop that says discount, you will think you are getting value for money. A token gesture is all thats required.

Boromart Posted on 27/7 9:10
re: According to SSN

the only time we have ever filled out in the last 35-50 years is when TLF signed. prior to that and since then we have rarely filled out.

The easiest way to get a major increase in STs is to get a big name on board, a 'spectacular' attacking player who will get the fans onside. E.g. Requelme = fullhouse.

How do you get a player of that ilk to join us? I don't know. Is it financially do-able? 10mill fee + 3mill a year wages x 4 years = 22mill total outlay.

Can we afford that?

- over 4 seasons he may move us 2 places up the league on average = 8 mill in league ladder payments
- add an extra 8K on the gates = 160K per game x 25 home games (inc cups) = 4mill x 4 years = 16mill + pies and beers 1mill
- shirt sales x 4 years = 1mill
- extra TV appearances 2 per year x 1mill from sky x 4 years = 8mill
total = 34mill.

I say we can't afford NOT to go for a big spectaular attacking player, financially it makes sense, crowds it makes sense. We are back to where we were crowd-wise before TLF joined, only this time we have a much better squad of players. We now just have to convince a player of that quality to come here.

....and before some idiot says we won't get Requelme, I'm using him as a hypothetical example.

--- Post edited by Boromart on 27/7 9:13 ---

Boromart Posted on 27/7 9:11
re: According to SSN

Mick there are only 2 or three clubs reducing the prices, most of the others are keeping it the same, the odd club like Manure and Spurs are increasing.

mickbrown Posted on 27/7 9:11
re: According to SSN

Lads, other clubs operating in the same climate as you and providing "spectacular" signings are cutting prices.

That would get on my tits if I was a Boro fan.

Turner_86 Posted on 27/7 9:12
re: According to SSN

heaton, I get the same arguement back every time, I'm skint because I've just paid for my ST. So I'm young and still live at home, I'm still skint because I've paid my last penny.

Explain how we used to sell 35,000? and suddenly families can't afford it anymore. I genuinely sympothise with people who can't afford it, but it's not the case for many stay away fans.

I can't afford a house, I'm not moaning about the prices, I'm saving up for one.

fatharrywhite Posted on 27/7 9:13
re: According to SSN

"The club can easily afford to miss out on a couple of million with the increase in the TV deal"

we are fans under the illusion that the new TV deal kicks in this season??? it doesnt, the money will be recieved at the end of season so costs still have to be covered this year.

Next summer should see a reduction in prices as prize money recieved for this season will cover it all.

The_DiasBoro Posted on 27/7 9:13
re: According to SSN

STs are a licence to whinge on here for a whole year.
Good riddance, pay-as-you-go is the way forward.

mickbrown Posted on 27/7 9:13
re: According to SSN

Boromart - six clubs have cut their prices, but I do see your point.

--- Post edited by mickbrown on 27/7 9:14 ---

fatharrywhite Posted on 27/7 9:14
re: According to SSN

"Lads, other clubs operating in the same climate as you and providing "spectacular" signings are cutting prices"

go on, name one..

TeeSv Posted on 27/7 9:16
re: According to SSN

we talk about this a fair bit in the pub as you do. Amongst them are 3 people I know who are not renewing this year. Between them they've probably followed the Boro for around 80 odd years. The banter is good and I call them a few things (and them me)but will introduce them tonight to the concept of being 'ignorant excuse making tools' and let you know how I get on

mickbrown Posted on 27/7 9:16
re: According to SSN

Villa have spent big this summer.

Cockney_Barra_Boy Posted on 27/7 9:17
re: According to SSN

Harry, you're right about the Mackems and Geordies bragging but not filling the stadium means less money coming in, less monmey available for transfers and therefore less effectiveness in the league.

The Sky money should cover the loss of revenue but surely it must have an effetc somewhere to our spending power.

Also someone mention Reading....they have had a great season and have a larger catchment area. If I wasn't a Boro fan I would go regularly to see them play as they are just down the road from me. Blackburn and Bolton had good seasons as well.

Also the signings we make for some reason aren't exciting anyone!! Personally I can't wait to see what Tuncay, Aliadere and Young add to our game. Though the spectacular signing has definitely bitten Gibbo on the @rse. Should have kept quiet!

Some teams are spending £20m +while we have spent £11.5. Another top striker might tempt people back....not Smith though....Mido for me.

If I lived back on Teesside I would have a Season ticket, no doubt, but that's based on Southern pay....though with the option of going to your local and enjoing the game in the pub with your mates is too appealing.

It;s probably exagerrated anyway as Sky are Anti Boro anyway, as are 98% of the press down here. Hardly ever hear or read a good word about us. It's always negative, and more often than not it's because of the McClaren and England connection.

Turner_86 Posted on 27/7 9:17
re: According to SSN

So why don't they go anymore TeeSv?

--- Post edited by Turner_86 on 27/7 9:19 ---

fatharrywhite Posted on 27/7 9:18
re: According to SSN

i said name a 'spectacular' signing, not who's spent big

the mackems have spent big this season on crap. villa have bought reo-cocker (i think). hardly call him spectacular

mickbrown Posted on 27/7 9:19
re: According to SSN

Turner - its a piece of piss to be skint when you still live at home.

However, in the real world.............

fatharrywhite Posted on 27/7 9:19
re: According to SSN

"but not filling the stadium means less money coming in, less monmey available for transfers and therefore less effectiveness in the league"

That's simply not true anymore. The TV deal pays for transfers

captain5 Posted on 27/7 9:19
re: According to SSN

The b that Villa have spent is badly.

Turner_86 Posted on 27/7 9:20
re: According to SSN

I understand that, but it doesn't explain how 35,000 people in the real world managed to find the money when TLF was here.

Boromart Posted on 27/7 9:22
re: According to SSN

Mick I don't think Villa are operating under similar circumstances to us. They are the biggest club in the second city. They have spent big, have a new owner who has primed the club with a large investment, they have a catchment area more than 8 times bigger than ours. If they marginally reduce prices on top of signing a few players they will have an ST sell out.

Even if we knocked £75 quid of an ST we would not be guarenteed to fill the stadium.

--- Post edited by Boromart on 27/7 9:23 ---

TheSmogMonster Posted on 27/7 9:22
re: According to SSN

mick: I've been very unimpressed by the signings the clubs that have cut prices in general have made to be honest and I'd hope we'd approach things differently if we did cut prices. Villa might have spent big, but they've just got a new Billionaire owner... its not a fair comparison.

Turner, the reason you don't get the money arguement is because yes you have to save up to get a ticket, but if you spend your last penny, it only effects you.

Blokes with families can't afford to spend their last penny on Boro!

TeeSv Posted on 27/7 9:22
re: According to SSN

Turner - as mentioned already on here, its a combination of reasons and different from person to person. One thing common to them all is that they CAN afford it.....but perhaps are questioning the value for money against the alternatives ?


--- Post edited by TeeSv on 27/7 9:24 ---

mickbrown Posted on 27/7 9:23
re: According to SSN

Turner

Cheaper tickets + lower interest rates = more money in your pocket

Gooks_Dong Posted on 27/7 9:24
re: According to SSN

Turner - read the other 70 odd posts for a clue ^^^

Turner_86 Posted on 27/7 9:25
re: According to SSN

So 3 blokes who have supported the club for 80 years between them and presumably seen some pretty shocking football and sad situations, suddenly find the club in it's current state not worth supporting...?

How does that work then?

These are the sort of people I'm getting at, not the people who genuinely can't afford it, like I've said, I sympothise with people who can't, but that's life.

heaton_mersey_boro Posted on 27/7 9:26
re: According to SSN

Turner - apologies if it seemed as though I was having a pop at you, I was'nt.

I agree with your sentiments, however there are a multitude of reasons as to why fans genuinely have to stop going. Get a house (good luck in your quest!), mortgage, wife, kids and all of the various debts that go with it.......and see how much dosh is left. For a lot of folk, not much. Priorities change, and sadly Boro slip well down the list. Especially when the match day experience is, simply crap.

There are a lot of brainless w_nkers about though, who can afford it but will look for any tiny, miniscule, negative aspect to storm off proclaiming loudly that they are "not going back to watch that shyte" then spend the rest of the season in the pub "watching that shyte".

I do agree 100% with your statement that a lot of our fans don't deserve a PL club, and that is so f_cking frustrating.

mickbrown Posted on 27/7 9:27
re: According to SSN

Boromart - I agree about Villa.

But it's not just about filling the stadium. We've cut prices and we still won't sell out, but what it does say to us is that the board have listened to us, that we matter a little bit. The money they lose in season ticket sales is more than outweighed by the extra cash from TV.

holgateoldskool Posted on 27/7 9:28
re: According to SSN

Harry, your TV arguement is flawed. Everybody in the Prem gets £30 mill and upwards from the TV deal. If other clubs ( and there are plenty of them ) sell more tickets then it follows that total revenue going into their club gives them a better chance of outweighing us in the market.

And by the way £30 mill does not go far when running a Prem club. I would imagine that the wage bill takes up ( if not exceeds) that £30 mill figure.

Whilst some argue it's expensive to watch football it is certainly the case when you weigh up the cost of running a club in the Prem.

Cockney_Barra_Boy Posted on 27/7 9:28
re: According to SSN

Have I been asleep for the last few weeks...

Villa spent big....they've signed Coke head and Hairy wood....for £12m combined...that's only £0.5m more than us....hardly a massive difference. Also I wouldn't want either here...

Poor arguement there Mick....

--- Post edited by Cockney_Barra_Boy on 27/7 9:30 ---

Turner_86 Posted on 27/7 9:28
re: According to SSN

Cheers heaton, I know you aren't having a pop, I'm glad you agree with me.

I know my arguement about cost will never stand up be cause I don't have as many committments as some, but I don't believe cost is the main problem for most, it's just a very good, poor excuse, if you understand me.

Sleaford_Socialite Posted on 27/7 9:28
re: According to SSN

Harry, I actually posted that but you cut and pasted the quote without it.

"the club had an excellent oppourtunity to do something about this knowing we were going to be getting an extra £20-£25 million at the end of the upcoming season"

smogmeister61 Posted on 27/7 9:30
re: According to SSN

'Excuse making tools'..........

Sorry. but when you're promised a 'top drawer manager' on the back of a UEFA cup run that should have seen us press on and then to appoint another 'trainee - future England' manager, to have yet another 'season of transition' (how many of them are we going to have for christ sake), to build everyones hopes up with 'spectacular signings' (whether quoted or not), to have to sit and watch a game where the away fans are the only people you can hear singing (which got worse and worse as the season wore on), to listen to the crowd booing the team off at half time just about every game, tells me more about the state we are getting into than just some people 'making excuses'.
If some of you are happy to blow money going and watching utter crap then thats your perogative.
You wouldn't 'waste' money watching the same crap film at the pictures week in, week out, would you, so what's the difference?
If they seriously want to get backsides back on seats then they need to get their heads out of the sand and 'seriously' do something about it.
There's more 'spin' at our place than the poxy labour party!

captain5 Posted on 27/7 9:31
re: According to SSN

If the home crowd booed the team off at half time just about every home game then we really do have some arsewipe fans, as our home record was pretty good last year.

It had to be to cover for the away travesty.

TeeSv Posted on 27/7 9:31
re: According to SSN

Turner - couple of things. I can't speak for them and don't put words in my mouth. There's a massive difference between 'not renewing' and 'not supporting'

salmon_pie Posted on 27/7 9:32
re: According to SSN

The only insentives to get is a ST is sitting in the same seat every match and getting first dibs on cup tickets. There are no financial instentives for buying a season ticket especially for people like me who have work commitments and will miss 2/3 games a season. The monthly pay plan is a rip off aswell if the club wants to sell more ST make the payment plan intrest free.

I am one of the many who didn't renew this year.

mickbrown Posted on 27/7 9:33
re: According to SSN

Cockney_Barra_Boy - you wouldn't have either?

Really? I'd have Reo Coker in a flash.

Winston_Spangler Posted on 27/7 9:33
re: According to SSN

The enjoyment factor at the Riverside has slowly gone downhill over the last few years as well. I remember trying to give a season ticket away for a match a couple of seasons back and it didn't happen. We need an exciting team playing well this season or we could be back to the 18,000 who were there for the last season of Ayresome.

fatharrywhite Posted on 27/7 9:33
re: According to SSN

"sell more tickets then it follows that total revenue going into their club gives them a better chance of outweighing us in the market."

we'll still average more than bolton and blackburn next season even though they've reduced prices.

In fact, we'll still be about 11 or 12th in the list - like we always are.

As i said in my first reply, it's all about attendance on the day - not the amount of season tickets sold.

it's actually better for us to average 25k with 10k ST then it is for 25K with 20K season tickets cos those that pay on the day pay more to get in.

Turner_86 Posted on 27/7 9:33
re: According to SSN

1) Is Southgate not a 'trainee England manager'?

2) Look at the list of players we've signed so far

3) The atmosphere is a disgrace, but what can the club do, it's the fans that are making it so.

captain5 Posted on 27/7 9:34
re: According to SSN

The one thing I would say in defence of Turner is that if we made what is perceived as a big signing, a hell of a lot of people would all of a sudden reappear.

fatharrywhite Posted on 27/7 9:35
re: According to SSN

we all know bolton fans are easy to please :-) but to have reo-coker in a flash!?

One season wonder with an attitude problem

wilkos_perm Posted on 27/7 9:37
re: According to SSN

i think we are just finding our true level of support. 10 years ago tickets were cheaper and it was trendier - there would be a substantial number of teenage girl, more women etc etc.

We lost a chunk of ticket holders when the novelty went away and its gradually coming down again as all the others who jumped on the bandwagon disappear. I believe these people to make up the majority of the doom mongering too - "fans" who have no level of perspective.

Have have found, despite poor performances in the prem in the last 2 years, that the level of negativity has been at a truly disproportionate scale and this has rubbed off on the atmosphere. This is what needs to be sorted out.

Cockney_Barra_Boy Posted on 27/7 9:38
re: According to SSN

Mick I wouldn;t to be honest.

Arca, Rochemnack, Cattermole, Boateng and with the likes of Goulon etc comign through, that will do me this season and at over £8m he's not worth it.

I can see Cattermole stepping up this season and improving on his game. Hopefully cool his temper and agression and then we'll see a player of higher standards than Coker.

Can't think of your midfield other than Nolan and Campo...so you probably would have him.....though surely not at the £8m+ mark???

Boromart Posted on 27/7 9:39
re: According to SSN

I would love to agree with you Mick, reduction in ticket prices certainly morally should be the way forward.

However what I see are a lot of businessmen in the game now and they will use that extra TV money to a) provide the owners with profits, and b) go into even more extortionate wages to ensure they get the best players....therefore creating a bigger gulf between the have and havenots.

b0r0lad Posted on 27/7 9:43
re: According to SSN

I know lads who stopped going when the smoking ban was introduced, they said theyd watch the games in the pub or club, wonder what they are going to do now

lawnranger Posted on 27/7 9:45
re: According to SSN

at the end of the day the main reasons the tickets are down are because the product is too expensive, football is a rip off in this country look at spain, italy and germany etc its much cheaper to watch out there for a start all very good leagues as well.

the players dont give a toss at the end of the day they are paid stupid money for what ?? i dont blame them though i would do the same as would every one else.

and far to much football on the tele thats whats killing it mainly
plus with the pub situation now its far cheaper to go to a pub have a few beers and watch it there instead

oriss Posted on 27/7 9:48
re: According to SSN

According to wikipedia, the population of the Boro is increasing
from 134,000 to 150,000 in the last few years. this follows a period of slow decline.

wilkos_perm Posted on 27/7 9:52
re: According to SSN

stopped going when the smoing ban came in
FFS.
as someone who would be daft enough to keep going whatever the division and whatever the price this kind of thing is painful to hear.

i think another problem is that people are looking for 'entertainment'on a scale that has rairly existed in the past, based on a myth of the level of entertainment in a seaon we actually were relegated ('96/97)

Turner_86 Posted on 27/7 9:54
re: According to SSN

See also, rubbish beer, long walk to the ground, club didn't give me a ticket for Eindhoven, I'm allergic to the plastic seats etc.

Holgate75 Posted on 27/7 9:54
re: According to SSN

Its obvious why season tickets have sales have fallen, and lets not kid ourselves it is just this year they have falen year on year for the past 5 years or so.
1 Poor value for money
2 Negative Fotball
3 Greedy Footballers demanding millions per year and not demonstrating that worth on a week by week basis
4 Poor PR by the club lack of respect for the fee paying public
5 Conistent promise of a "spectacular signing" the club try this every year to try and boost ticket sales. well I am sorry Boro but this time the fans have not fallen for it.

I beleive most of these points can be attributed to every Prem Club in the country, yes I know that in most respects that football in not like any other entertainment business its in your blood and is a major part of most communities but peaole will only stand for so much.

skiprat Posted on 27/7 9:56
re: According to SSN

"BUT it`s only ever to replace players, when we should`ve been adding to the ones we already had, resulting in us going from UEFA cup finalists to mid table/potential relegation material"

Sorry to only quote you Sy, as others have said it after yourself but yours was the first I copied, but this statement is a load of rubbish.

We were a midtable, potential relegation side at the same time as we got to the final and we potentially still are now. Nothing has changed. We haven't gone from UEFA finalists to relegation fodder we were UEFA finalists AND relegation potential.

What have Greece done since winning the Euro's? One season of luck in cup games doesn't transfer to the league were your inconsistent results are found out more.

---------------------------------------------------------------

On the season ticket issue, there are a number of reasons I can see which have all pretty much been discussed already. What I believe though, is that a drop in Season Ticket prices of something like £50 wouldn't bring back the masses. In fact knowing what Boro 'fans' are like they'd have probably used it as an even bigger stick to get at Lamb/Gibson.

I also completely disagree with the statement that "football is getting too expensive and that's why I've given up" from people that have paid the same prices for 3 years running.

It just doesn't add up.

holgateoldskool Posted on 27/7 9:56
re: According to SSN

Harry ? - our walk up attendees at matches is surely amongst the worst in the division !!! So Boro would surely be concerned at reduced season ticket sales as recent history does not auger well for getting non season ticket holders there .

The home arguement ie increased mortgages - isn't Middlesbrough one of the cheapest place to buy a house ???

Bottom line is that people have become disillusioned and are not interested in supporting their local club by turning up in the numbers to justify any further progress as a club !!!

Brick_Tamland Posted on 27/7 9:57
re: According to SSN

"Conistent promise of a "spectacular signing" the club try this every year to try and boost ticket sales. well I am sorry Boro but this time the fans have not fallen for it."

The word 'promise' was not used by Gibson. He said he thought we had a 'chance' of getting in a couple of spectacular players. He said this once, not consistently.

MarlonD Posted on 27/7 9:58
re: According to SSN

Fuqing hell. Is anybody else not bored with the same old arguments on this board, blah de tvvattin blah.

skiprat Posted on 27/7 9:59
re: According to SSN

Just an addition as well.

I don't think I know of fans for any other clubs in the country that can make Everests out of molehills, quite like Boro fans do.

The club official's have so much more to deal with, simply because of the Teesside negative slant on everything in life.

captain5 Posted on 27/7 9:59
re: According to SSN

Well, on the upside, at least we know that if we ever go down, we've got no chance of getting back up, as the crowds wouldn't go.

No point in having false hopes.

kermit_the_smog Posted on 27/7 9:59
re: According to SSN

I went to see Hertha Berlin vs Energie Cotbus (I think they were called) and it was a local derby I think. The atmosphere made by the Hertha Berlin fans was awesome, they all stood up in their 'kop' bit down the front and they were bouncing up and down and it looked amazing. They had a geezer with a mic at the front too who prompted a lot of songs and it just seemed amazing,

We were near the top of the stands and you could buy litre plastic jugs of beer (or half litres etc) and take them to your seat and if you returned the jug you got so many euros back.

I think the ticket cost me €13.

Everything over there seemed so much better, it was a seated stadium but everyone was allowed to stand, and the Hertha's 'kop' down the front really was the best thing i've seen, it was like those Turkish youtube clips.

Then to come back and to go to some Boro home matches and its garbage, you get told off for standing up, no one sings, there's loads of moaning, bar closes just after half time, litter everywhere especially on the pitch which i find embarrassing.

It's no real surprise that people don't wanna go. Personnally I can't afford to pay for a season ticket and have to pick and choose my matches, but i'd much rather spend the money on the away trips as its a day out and it's always a better experience (despite the fact we usually lose)

Brick_Tamland Posted on 27/7 10:00
re: According to SSN

I'm very bored of it, Marlon. Reports of dwindling crowds never fail to to sadden me, though. I just wonder where Boro will be in 3 seasons time.

fatharrywhite Posted on 27/7 10:01
re: According to SSN

lets wait and see what the attendances are next season shall we...most season ticket holders who arent renewing are those that know they can pay on the day - and will.

also, SSN is just tabloid TV and i'd wait and see just how many ST we've sold before going on about attendances. they seem remarkably well 'informed' given the club havent said anything about how many we've sold.

skiprat Posted on 27/7 10:01
re: According to SSN

This "spectacular" bullsheet works both ways as well.

Fans belittling Gibson for not bringing in a massive player, but choosing to not back the club in season ticket sales year after year.

Guisborough_Gadgey Posted on 27/7 10:01
re: According to SSN

It's got nowt to do with our team bein' excrement, or entertainment, or havin' a second class manager. It's simply because we're Smoggies and it's true we're as tight as gnats chuffs.
By the way I have a stall on Guisborough market selling Israeli army issue sweets from 1976 at prices that even we'd be prepared to pay. So if you want to stock up on presents for your lass or the kids come and grab a bargain at Tight*rse Smoggies Sweet Emporium.
One last thing...Someone asked me about the "tumbleweed" blowin' across the pitch last season. Did anyone notice it, or were you all readin' your papers like me like ?

--- Post edited by Guisborough_Gadgey on 27/7 10:20 ---

sasboro Posted on 27/7 10:04
re: According to SSN

how are we ever going to get bigger crowds when boro fans are slagging off fellow boro fans? its the wrong attitude, any fans that goes to even just 1 game should be made more welcome. The general feeling is that the season ticket super fans feel more superior than the rest and anyone who goes to 1 or 2 games a season gets slagged off. no wonder they never come back. you can sense the burning eyes in the back of the head from a season ticket holder because they dont have a season ticket. season ticket holders should be encouraging more fans to go to games and not alienating them. make them feel part of it rather than just strangers

I also think all this money being paid to players(not just boro players) is having an adverse effect on boro fans. i mean players like terry on 130k a week, mendieta sat on his arse earning 30k a week for 2 seasons. its not painting a good image

and when all this new tv money comes through where wil it all disappear to and will any be passed onto the fans?

--- Post edited by sasboro on 27/7 10:11 ---

Kilburn Posted on 27/7 10:05
re: According to SSN

It seems like a vicious circle that the club has got into.

The team play badly and nervously, so the fans start to get on their backs and the atmosphere sours.

The bad atmosphere contributes to the team playing badly, and so less fans want to go along to watch poor football in a negative atmosphere.

Less fans are at games, so there is less money to spend on players, contributing to the team playing less well.

And so on.

marskephil Posted on 27/7 10:10
re: According to SSN

Go throught he record books and look at our crouds over the years. I think 20-25000 is a good crowd for Boro. In the mid eighties I was going with about 10 lads every week home and away, now it's down to 3 of us. Yes the football is better but the is no craic anymore due to over the top (pretend police for a day) stewards, all seater stadiums,etc. Also the mess they madae of red book holders not getting tickets for Eindhoven didn't help, I think fans thought "why bother" a red book does not guarantee you a ticket so get rid. I work away now and miss quite a few games but I've still got my season ticket but I know loads of lads working away who don't bother now. Other reasons, Al Jazera TV, smoking ban, boring football,( it dosn't matter how boring the game is in the pub you still can have a laugh) but I think most of all fans don't feel part of the club anymore. In the eightie's when there was only a few thou going I would'nt dare miss a match, you just couldn't show your face if you were'nt there. Now money has taken the club away from the fans. Once over it was the money through the gates that mattered most, now it's TV money that the club relies on. Also I don't think it's the price of season tickets/match day prices as I struggle to give my ticket away for fook all I think people are just fed up with football. Boro are now down to the hardcore so accept that this is our level of crowd, we are never going to compete with the barcodes off the pitch just be glad that we can and do on the pitch and stop whinging about the size of our crowds.

fatharrywhite Posted on 27/7 10:19
re: According to SSN

"Also the mess they madae of red book holders not getting tickets for Eindhoven didn't help, I think fans thought "why bother" a red book does not guarantee you a ticket so get rid."

i'm still at a loss as to why the boro are blamed for this!! The final was in a stadium that was too small, there wasnt enough tickets for all red book holders to be guaranteed a ticket.

What were they supposed to do!?

Boromart Posted on 27/7 10:23
re: According to SSN

The sanitisation of the game and the uncompetitive nature of the league is certainly having a big effect on us.

The fact is 20 years a go a club like us could have two summers of prudent shopping and be challanging at the top of the league. Teams like Norwich and QPR and Ipswich did it. Now it is rediculous to think a club of our size could actually challange for the title. This is killing the game for fans of a lot of club like us. There is no glory in finishing 8th really.

The game needs a shake up from top to bottom, otherwise a lot of good clubs will go to the dogs.

marskephil Posted on 27/7 10:23
re: According to SSN

That's fair enough farrywhite it was a stupid place to have the final, what I meant was that fans were pi55ed off that they could'nt get a ticket when they thought that the red book status would make sure they would and therefore thought "fook it why bother"

Guisborough_Gadgey Posted on 27/7 10:24
re: According to SSN

Polo's are three packs for a quid..that includes the spearmint ones like.


I'll even throw in a free season ticket.....but that's optional, you dont have to take it like.

--- Post edited by Guisborough_Gadgey on 27/7 10:28 ---

sasboro Posted on 27/7 10:28
re: According to SSN

i heard that liverpool had similar problems for the champions league final but i think a lot of their fans accept it as normal that tickets get picked by lottery.

considering sevilla get bigger crowds they must have bigger complaints as they have more season ticket holders.

heaton_mersey_boro Posted on 27/7 10:31
re: According to SSN

"you can sense the burning eyes in the back of the head from a season ticket holder because they dont have a season ticket"

sas - thats just paranoia.

Stay off the skunk fella......

Must say I have never once felt that way at a match. How do you know who the ST holders are anyway?

Guisborough_Gadgey Posted on 27/7 10:41
re: According to SSN

"Must say I have never once felt that way at a match. How do you know who the ST holders are anyway?"

That's easy, theyre the ones enjoyin' their Polo's from my stall!!

skiprat Posted on 27/7 10:42
re: According to SSN

There was obviously a load of Liverpool fans not so forgiving about the ticket situation though Sas.

bandito Posted on 27/7 10:43
re: According to SSN

One reason and it stands out a mile - our fans are baragin basement and moan for moaning sake. They want owt for nowt.

Ultra_Magnus Posted on 27/7 10:50
re: According to SSN

The catchment area argument is a load of rubbish. When people use it, they somehow forget to include the borough of Stockton-on-Tees. Stockton, Norton, Billingham, Yarm and Thornaby are all Boro areas. So, we've got more than 150k to choose from.

The botton line is this:

People in Teesside are just not as fanatical as say, people in Newcastle. MFC has a hard-core following of 25K and that's it. We are clearly a small to middle sized club, punching above it's weight.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 27/7 10:53
re: According to SSN

Have a little look into the club's history regarding ticket sales. When we moved to the Riverside we sold something like 16,000 tickets, may even have been less, a new record all the same. The new stadium and promotion under Captain Marvel Robson brought backing from the local population.

We signed Juninho and the season tickets leapt to the limit of 22,500. We wouldn't sell any more becauase of the 25% cup ticket allocations, I think Huddersfield and possibly Hednesford took the full allocation.

Local demand was at a high, the football was exciting, we hadn't seen anything like it for a long, long time. People had to have a season ticket to get in. The team was relegated, the ground expanded, but the so called 'fickle fans' of Teesside stuck with their team, the exciting times would return.

Move on ten years. We've won a cup and we've been to a European final, but the football has been poor to watch for around 6 or 7 years. The fans have started to find it a bore. A few drifted, then a few more and now there's no need to buy a ticket, you can buy one on the day.

The club have been well backed more recently than at any other time in their history. They have failed to capitalise on the backing and the apologists on here blame the fans for the lack of success. Have a look at the club's history, the board have never had it so good.

boro74 Posted on 27/7 10:53
re: According to SSN

What is the point of buying a season ticket as opposed to paying at the gate?

Table_Football Posted on 27/7 10:56
re: According to SSN

Did SSN have a sauce for their information?

I also noticed that they didn't have a figure for us, like they did for Reading, Arsenal etc.

rozi Posted on 27/7 10:56
re: According to SSN

As probably the oldest 'mooner' on here and a lady to boot, for which I offer no apologies, have to say that there are some very good points being made, but it's all been said before. If my fast fading memory serves me right, most people on here thought it was the right thing to do to rest our best players during cup/UEFA games and those of us who disagreed were slated for it. Prices have been frozen for the last 3 seasons, which hasn't happened at a lot of clubs, but Boro have never been able to do right for doing wrong for most fans. The atmosphere is truly dreadful most home games, for me we should be able to stand if we want to, just as all the away fans do - they can't throw all of us out. The atmosphere on the nights of Basle and Steaua games was brilliant, because we all stood and supported our team - that's how it should be. Sometimes the last few seasons there has been such a hostile atmosphere the players must have been scared to kick the ball in case they passed to the opposition. However many of us there are at the games next season for god's sake let's just support the lads and Gareth instead of being on their backs the minute the whistle blows.

sasboro Posted on 27/7 10:58
re: According to SSN

people just dont have the finances to pay for tickets at boro, its an area with one of the lowest average wages in the country. then there are the fans that move away. not all of them go to every boro home game. more people share a season ticket now.

--- Post edited by sasboro on 27/7 10:59 ---

bandito Posted on 27/7 10:59
re: According to SSN

lots of clubs can say they have remained stagnant for so long yet their fans dont have a problem with selling tickets. It's a Teesside apathy. The whole place has lost it's spirit, the club isnt marketed well enough, and even a decent season fighting it out in the top ten wouldnt see fans return next season. They simply cant be arsed and are looking for excuses to spend their money elsewhere cos they dont get anything in return. They'd prefer to get bevvied on 10 pints then pay at the gate. Sad state of affairs and this happens more on Teesside than anywhere else I reckon. Get your wallets out tight arses

GillZean Posted on 27/7 11:01
re: According to SSN

Well said rozi.

Holgate75 Posted on 27/7 11:02
re: According to SSN

Nothing to do with catchment area or unemployment. Its quite simply down to entertainment, realistic chances of winning anything, TV overkill, prices and players wages/loyalty to clubs.

wilkos_perm Posted on 27/7 11:06
re: According to SSN

Sas there are a lot of people who can't afford it but there are also a lot of people who probably say they can't but waste £50 every saturday night going out in Yarm and spend £40/month on their mobile phone contracts etc etc.
I think enough people can afford it but would rather do something else. That's the bottom line. That's fair enough, nobody has an obligation to go but they just shouldn't make up other reasons (usually criticisms of the club) or expect investment in the team without any support from themselves.

mfc_4_ever Posted on 27/7 11:06
re: According to SSN

Surely if someone supports a club then they will want to go and watch that club. Otherwise to me they arent supporters. Unless of course they really can not afford it.

marskephil Posted on 27/7 11:07
re: According to SSN

Corcaigh_the_Cat Bang on!!!

Simmo7484 Posted on 27/7 11:09
re: According to SSN

kermit_the_smog Posted on 27/7 9:59 Email this Message | Edit
re: According to SSN

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I went to see Hertha Berlin vs Energie Cotbus (I think they were called) and it was a local derby I think. The atmosphere made by the Hertha Berlin fans was awesome, they all stood up in their 'kop' bit down the front and they were bouncing up and down and it looked amazing. They had a geezer with a mic at the front too who prompted a lot of songs and it just seemed amazing,

We were near the top of the stands and you could buy litre plastic jugs of beer (or half litres etc) and take them to your seat and if you returned the jug you got so many euros back.

I think the ticket cost me €13.

Everything over there seemed so much better, it was a seated stadium but everyone was allowed to stand, and the Hertha's 'kop' down the front really was the best thing i've seen, it was like those Turkish youtube clips.

Then to come back and to go to some Boro home matches and its garbage, you get told off for standing up, no one sings, there's loads of moaning, bar closes just after half time, litter everywhere especially on the pitch which i find embarrassing.

It's no real surprise that people don't wanna go. Personnally I can't afford to pay for a season ticket and have to pick and choose my matches, but i'd much rather spend the money on the away trips as its a day out and it's always a better experience (despite the fact we usually lose)


I think Kermit absolutely hit the nail on the head with post. I remember my old fella telling me that he used to go on his own pay to get in the hallgate and just walk around in there until he found some lads he knew to have a bit of banter with, get the songs going etc. Unfortunately i was only about 9 going into the hallgate and cant rember an awful lot of it.

If you go on your own now and pay to get in you are going to be sat on your own and no doubt not know anybody around you and have some moaning tw@t behind you.

I would love to see it go back to when you could stand and not get told to sit down, say what you like on the terraces without having someone report you to the policeman wannabies. Gone are the days when you could chuck a pie on the pitch at the fat coont on the opposition team on hi warm up(aka Mickey Quinn or someone) without forefeiting your ticket even if it was all in good humour.

Atmospheres accross the country would feel the benefit if all the rules were relaxed a bit. Just my thoughts but some valid ones i feel.

sasboro Posted on 27/7 11:11
re: According to SSN

"Sas there are a lot of people who can't afford it but there are also a lot of people who probably say they can't but waste £50 every saturday night going out in Yarm and spend £40/month on their mobile phone contracts etc etc."

yes for some people there is a lot of choice. people probably prefer a social life out with their mates than 2hours at a match. thats the choice. make football a lot cheaper then they might be tempted. Like you say some people can afford it but wont sacrifice other things. for a £10 ticket they might be tempted

if you think of the cost in terms of relative to a pint of beer. back in 1987 it was about £1 a pint. a match at boro/ manutd was £4. now a pint of beer is about £2.50 so that means a match ticket should really be £10. plus back in 1986-97 less choice of other things to do. ie no mobile phones,no internet,sky sports wasnt as big

also for those exiles for a day trip to watch boro you wont get much change out of £80. its a lot of money

--- Post edited by sasboro on 27/7 11:13 ---

glippy Posted on 27/7 11:11
re: According to SSN

Teessiders always seem to find money to pay for their fags and booze.

Kilburn Posted on 27/7 11:12
re: According to SSN

How do the people who are complaining about a lack of entertainment and winning football, and also about players wages, reconcile the two?

Can you suggest how the club can provide entertaining winning football, and not pay players big wages?

There have been about a hundred posts on this thread complaining about various things that are wrong, but very few suggesting any solutions.

Not surprising really though, one of the defining characteristics of the british public at this point in history is a readiness to complain at the slightest provocation, combined with a complete unwillingness to get off their arses and do anything about it themselves.

marskephil Posted on 27/7 11:13
re: According to SSN

Very valid Simmo it's just a shame we can't do fook all about it, i.e. standing without getting reported off the stewpids

Holgate75 Posted on 27/7 11:14
re: According to SSN

wilkos_perm, You are right its about choices, maybe the reason for them choices are the ones been discussed not just excuses.

skiprat Posted on 27/7 11:17
re: According to SSN

"We've won a cup and we've been to a European final, but the football has been poor to watch for around 6 or 7 years.We've won a cup and we've been to a European final, but the football has been poor to watch for around 6 or 7 years."

MYTH ALERT

The football has by and large ALWAYS been closer to poor than anything else for the vast majority of our time in my living memory.

The 96/97 season I take it you would include in a season of good football, we had 14 defeats.

Bandito has absolutely nailed it. I would actually prefer it if people just come out and said "I'm not going anymore because I can't be arsed" rather than coming up with 50 different excuses trying to pass it off as something else.

Dearg_Ban_jj Posted on 27/7 11:18
re: According to SSN

I think the boro made a mistake with a generation of non season ticket holders a few years ago when you couldnt get a ticket in the "new Holgate".... a lot of lads who coudnt afford it or couldnt sit together just went to watch it at the pub which for me is now the done thing.
We booze in a club in Stockton 3 hrs before a game, we leave in a mini cab 40 mins before kick off the club is stowed out at this point with young lads TV Boro fans.
I think a lot of the middle aged " new fans" who started to go during Robsons era " Bandwagon boys" have had their fill and find it not their priority anymore.
I used to stand at very poor attended games it was the norm for a club that couldnt match the fans or the regions aspirations,
I couldnt go to work and have anybody say a good word about the Boro from 78..86 yet the same people when the good times came claimed they never missed a game in the past.
Thats Teessiders for you I think now we have raised our fan base up from a maybe 7000 core pre Robson with around 9000 floaters
to about 15000 core with 9000 floaters.... this is a guess I suppose but I dont think its to far off the mark.
The club I have to make Inspirational signings to get the bandwagoners back and play entertaining football to keep the core

ExiledInZebraland Posted on 27/7 11:20
re: According to SSN

Back when we were at Ayresome it wasnt necessary to have a season ticket and we also only used to get 10-12,000 at each game. We moved to a new stadium and I didnt believe we'd fill it, but we did. The fair weather fans are gone and now we're getting what I expected us to get when we first moved to the stadium. Why is it necessary to have a season ticket when you can pick and choose your games? My dad used to take me to 1/2 games a year, now I have a season ticket. The price means that next year I might consider going to the games I fancy. It doesnt mean I need to invest in a season ticket, but I'll still be paying for match tickets. I'll still be there.

sasboro Posted on 27/7 11:20
re: According to SSN

how much were tickets back in 1996/97?

also it may not be to with people not being arsed but more to do with changes in their lifes and priorities. 10 years on they might now have a young family, prefer to spend time with their kids, on a family holiday, got bills to pay. mortgage to pay, moved away..etc like i said before we have an ageing season ticket population so it will naturally get smaller over time

wilkos_perm Posted on 27/7 11:21
re: According to SSN

Holgate but most people on here offer some balanced reasoning, that is generally not the case of your avaerage part timer down the pub spouting off a load of total bobbins about the club that simply isn't true.

skiprat Posted on 27/7 11:24
re: According to SSN

Can you post your in depth analysis on the age ranges of our crowd please Sas.

Wouldn't want you coming out with any random comments based on nothing but conjecture would we?

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 27/7 11:25
re: According to SSN

That's why, skiprat, the crowds have been low for the vast majority of the time you've watched them. The football played in the mid 90's was exciting stuff. Even when Juninho went, Merson came in and we played some great stuff in that promotion season.

It was good, exciting football that brought the crowds in. Now that it's not here we're getting back to the levels that we had for other dull periods.

The club have been well backed by the fans, Gibson has had support way beyond any other chairman, and deservedly so for me. But the excitement has to return for the ground to fill up again.

You boys want a full stadium, then you slag off the people who can give you that because they're not so dull that football is their life. It played a large part of people's lives in the 90's, it was a good day out. Now it's not. A walk on the Moors has more of a thrill about it.

If Southgate gets the team to click this year, you'll see the gates rise again. If it's as dull as it has been for the last few years, then the crowd will drop to the levels we saw in the late 70's.

Simple as that.

mfc_4_ever Posted on 27/7 11:26
re: According to SSN

people may have young families etc... but what about the ones that had young families when we first moved or in the ayresome days etc. There are enough people to fill the stadium or get touching 30,000 but they choose not to mainly because they cant be bothered, so they are not suporters in my eyes.

wilkos_perm Posted on 27/7 11:27
re: According to SSN

he is right Skiprat, have a look around the ground when you go back. The number of kids/teenagers at the ground is clearly falling. We are not attracting new ones as the prices a too high for say your average 16 year old to be able to afford.
The young generation of fans from the early Riverside days are now in their 20s

i was 15 at the first seaon at the Riverside and my season ticket was only £108 and my dad's adult ticket £180, i found them the other day while i was sorting stuff out in my old bedroom.

--- Post edited by wilkos_perm on 27/7 11:30 ---

skiprat Posted on 27/7 11:35
re: According to SSN

Corcaigh,

Some goods points and I don't disgaree with them in the main, but then the next obvious question is what does the club have to do to be able to get back those 'flair' players?

The most obvious answer is spend money, money that as far as season ticket sales goes is a declining pot.

I wouldn't say that the crowd is getting older either, I see plenty of kids across the stadium and sit in the least child friendly stand (North). But then I'm only using what I see as a basis, same as you and Sas just have, not really decent grounds for definite answers.


Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 27/7 11:37
re: According to SSN

It's not about not being arsed. I found I was watching because I wasn't arsed to do anything else, when it became such drivel that I'd had enough I found other things to do.

It's the 'through thick and thin' fans that can't be arsed. They can't be arsed to find a life out there. Sure, if the game improves, and they sort the greed out in the game, we'll be back. But it's got to be worth it.

ExiledInZebraland Posted on 27/7 11:38
re: According to SSN

Bring Back a standing section. And introduce a fella with a loud speaker.

Kilburn Posted on 27/7 11:39
re: According to SSN

It is true, when I was a 17/18 year old A-Level student with no income of my own I could afford £6 to go in the Holgate every other week.

I'm not sure how many 17/18 year old students sponging off their parents nowadays can afford to pay £30 to go to Boro games on a regular basis.

I think that this has a massive effect on the atmosphere too. Not many young lads have the cynical "Seen it all before. Boooooo" attitude, and they are more up for singing too.

sasboro Posted on 27/7 11:42
re: According to SSN

"Wouldn't want you coming out with any random comments based on nothing but conjecture would we?"

you mean like you making assumptions on liverpool season ticket holders? how do you know they were all season ticket holders causing problems.

There was a report a few months ago stating that the average age of the season ticket holder in premier league is going up.
Stop blaming the fans all the time, you are the sort of fan who probably alienates the fans who go to only a coupl eof games a season. at the moment the club isnt in a position to turn any fans away.

Its common sense that when demands fall, reduce the price of the product to attract more customers to buy the product that isnt selling.

my dad has stopped going after 30-40 years and his reasons are that its too expensive and sick of player generally in football earning so much money and felt club were taking the pee when resting players in the league. said he will got back once he qualifies for an OAP ticket

Dearg_Ban_jj Posted on 27/7 11:43
re: According to SSN

I think the flair player is a very valid point but would it get the bandwagon on the roll again ?, might shore it up for a time.
Like a lot of the ardent Boro fans on here I often wondered what it would be like if we ever became really successful ( in my eyes we have been)..its been fantastic beyond my wildest dreams and Iam dissapointed that the crowds have began to fall off.
Have we become as big as we will ever be.

mfc_4_ever Posted on 27/7 11:43
re: According to SSN

19 days a season and that is not having a life. you can easily have a life and a seaon ticket.

jeff_potato Posted on 27/7 11:48
re: According to SSN

I think a lot of people are too prone to believing anecdotal evidence from one person in a social group who actually goes to the matches, so it gets around that we're far worse than we actually are and people get it into their heads that there's no way they want to go.

Ally that to the natural social tendencies of many football fans - i.e. the sheep instinct, then you take into account a great deal of missing fans. If you have a group of blokes who go and the dominant people in that group give it up, the stragglers who form the group around the social hegemon, as it were, they will stop going and follow wherever their friends take them.

sasboro Posted on 27/7 11:53
re: According to SSN

in the end its in the clubs hands to make games cheaper to the majority. in the past when they did deals for kids with an adult the place was fuller. so they know what to do to get people in.

how about next season offer a child ticket for £50 for any adult paying season ticket holder..first come first served upto a maximum of 3,000 season tickets. no doubt someone will say but the club will lose money..well maybe sometimes the club needs to spend/lose a little bit of money to get more customers..look at it as a form of an advertising campaign

heaton_mersey_boro Posted on 27/7 11:54
re: According to SSN

mfc_4_ever -

Do you have any comprehension of economics, price rises, wage rises being massively overtaken by football ticket prices?

Fist ST at Riverside was £180.

Now £390.

Not rocket science is it?

You have'nt a f_cking clue.

wilkos_perm Posted on 27/7 11:54
re: According to SSN

"It's the 'through thick and thin' fans that can't be arsed. They can't be arsed to find a life out there"

this has got to be the biggest load of drivel ive seen posted recently. About 3 hours 19 times in a year. I don't think that's dominating the rest of my life somehow.
So what are these people doing instead then, out making new friends or maybe mountain biking up roseberry topping?

Dearg_Ban_jj Posted on 27/7 11:59
re: According to SSN

yeah Sas a sprat to catch a mackerel
I think they did something like that in the west stand upper for a kid under 9 for a £100 limited numbers should open it up all over the the ground especially the east stand wings which are empty.
Footballs sales mentality needs a new policy

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 27/7 11:59
re: According to SSN

Not when it's as dull as it has been lately.

holgateoldskool Posted on 27/7 11:59
re: According to SSN

All the "reasons", "excuses" listed on here could be applicable to many a club in the Prem - so why does it affect us more than them ??

Sorry to say apathy and fickleness have to be primary reasons....

sasboro Posted on 27/7 12:01
re: According to SSN

..because people dont earn as much as fans at other clubs in the premier league. and a lot of fans move away to seek work. then settle in their new place.

skiprat Posted on 27/7 12:05
re: According to SSN



What are you talking about Sas? Where did I mention Liverpool SEASON ticket holders?

I simply made a comeback to your own comment that 'a lot of their fans accept it as normal that tickets get picked by lottery.'

Why would I be the type of fan that looks down on match by matchers as well? Aside from the fact that I couldn't less as long as we get the most people in the ground we can, how would I identify these fans? Do they wear a different t-shirt so I can abuse them for only coming to the odd game?

The only problem I have as I've already said is people who make up a thousand and one (imo) invalid reasons for not going, when a simple "I can't be arsed anymore" would do.

The biggest joke is the "it's too expensive" after they've been getting tickets for 2 years previously at the same price.

smogmeister61 Posted on 27/7 12:07
re: According to SSN

Corcaigh the cat has it spot on. sas has valid points as well. perhaps (if I'm not mistaken) they're of the 'older' type fan as I am. Perhaps that is the answer........as you get older you tend not to put up with dross and do something about it.
Maybe its the younger fans they are needing to attract back to the club. Why not have another, cheaper, price ranged season ticket for maybe 18-25 yr olds? (18-30)?.
But then again, the days of needing one now are, I believe, long gone.

holgateoldskool Posted on 27/7 12:10
re: According to SSN

SAS, that is a load of boll**ks as far as I am concerned. Housing stock in Middlesbrough is amongst the cheapest in the country - so is it fair to assume that disposable income is similar pro-rata to so-called better areas? Many towns/cities could claim the migration to the South for work - again no real substance to your arguement as to why we should be so different.Teesside has a large enough population for the downward spiral to be halted - if the local population can be arsed..........

skiprat Posted on 27/7 12:13
re: According to SSN

Seeing as this thread seems to be going full circle, what are people's thoughts about solutions to this then?

More exciting football? Harder than any other reason to achieve for me. The season we played our most exciting in recent times we were relegated.

Cheaper prices. I do actually think that the prices may drop next season when we have the TV funds in our 'account'.

Doing up the concourse?

For me a big start would be to look at a more level playing field across the stands. I don't see too much reason why the West and East Upper seats are so much more expensive than the other parts of the stadium, especially when the day by day prices are close to double the price. Do away with that level of difference.

Before all of this though, get rid of the Category A and B etc matches. It should be about Boro and not who we are playing against. Fans should not be penalised for wanting to come and watch on a day by day basis, even if we are playing Man U. If anythign prices should be dropped for lower cat games, not raised for higher cat ones.

sasboro Posted on 27/7 12:14
re: According to SSN

So whats this about then? after i mentioned liverpool season ticekt holders? anyway as always you dont seem to be gettin gwhat people are saying. you defend the club to the hilt, even though season ticket numbers are falling. do you work for mfc and cant see whats goign on with season ticket sales?



skiprat Posted on 27/7 10:42 Email this Message | Edit | Reply
re: According to SSN

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There was obviously a load of Liverpool fans not so forgiving about the ticket situation though Sas.




"The biggest joke is the "it's too expensive" after they've been getting tickets for 2 years previously at the same price."

do you still not understand what people have been saying on why season ticekt sales are dropping? again i ask do you work for mfc and blind to it all? read through this thread and see what the reasons are. i'm guessing you have no dependants of family to feed..etc have you been effected by things like interest rate rises and so on?

Winston_Spangler Posted on 27/7 12:15
re: According to SSN

Bolton and Blackburn are teams that I consider around our size in terms of fan base and both these clubs lowered season tickets for next season. I honestly think that if Boro reduced prices, even by a couple of quid a game the gesture would've led to bigger sales. Coupled with the fact that there isn't really an incentive of getting a season ticket anymore unless you're guaranteed to go to every home game which a lot of people aren't then it's natural. Most season ticket holders didn't get a ticket for Eindhoven and Wembley will be big enough to give the floating fans chance to camp out anyway.

sasboro Posted on 27/7 12:19
re: According to SSN

"SAS, that is a load of boll**ks as far as I am concerned. Housing stock in Middlesbrough is amongst the cheapest in the country - so is it fair to assume that disposable income is similar pro-rata to so-called better areas? Many towns/cities could claim the migration to the South for work - again no real substance to your arguement as to why we should be so different.Teesside has a large enough population for the downward spiral to be halted - if the local population can be arsed.........."

no where near as cheap as 5 years ago. have a look to see how much it costs first time buyers to get a house these days even in boro. say a teacher is on 25k looking to buy first time. a nice 2 bed terrace can cost £120k do your sums on how much that wil cost per month. add in bills . 3 bed semis for 150k+..its a lot of money for a refion that doesnt have many high earners.

how many games do you get to a season holgateoldskool ?

SirGooner01 Posted on 27/7 12:19
re: According to SSN

i dont blame them

over priced, messed around game times, family's who also need spending on, not wonderful atmosphere at premiership clubs

if i wasnt such a nut for my club , id be doing the same

skiprat Posted on 27/7 12:19
re: According to SSN

My own personal situation is of no relevance.

For Boro for the last three years, the statement "the prices are getting too high" doesn't come into it. The price is the same as some seemed happy to pay for years beforehand.

I have my own criticsms of the club for other issues, but I don't think they've done much wrong over this issue and it's the fans expecting a cheaper and cheaper ride, while maintaining all the trappings of being a Premiership club.

skiprat Posted on 27/7 12:21
re: According to SSN

I must have missed the memo where house prices have only rised in and around Middlesbrough.

smogmeister61 Posted on 27/7 12:21
re: According to SSN

How do you identify a match by matcher????????
Possibly by the fact that a 'stranger' is sat in the seat next to you that hasn't been purchased by a ST holder?

sasboro Posted on 27/7 12:25
re: According to SSN

why isnt it relevant? like to know what your financial situation is. ie other dependants,mortgage,bills, have to travel 100+miles each way to go to a home game and so on..

dont you realise that other more important things in life to people may have gone up in price in last 1-2 years. like i keep saying mortgage payments, bigger mortgages,council tax, utilities bills,internet,mobile phones,car loans... some people might not have that disposable income anymore as season ticket prioritise. do you understand? everyone may have thier own valid reasons for not renewing and feel tickets are just too expensive.

skiprat Posted on 27/7 12:25
re: According to SSN

I've got a season ticket and sat in about 8 different seats for games last season.

Totality Posted on 27/7 12:27
re: According to SSN

I never had a season ticket at Ayresome, but went to the majority of games. When we moved to the Riverside, I picked and choosed until the "boom", when I got a season ticket, so I could guarantee my seat.

In '99, I gave up my season ticket, and moved overseas for a couple of years.

When I returned, I went back to picking and choosing. Then I settled down, got married, had a kid, and now I watch in the pub or in my armchair. My priorities have changed considerably.

I've only been to a handful of games over the past few years - largely for financial reasons. The attitude of some ST holders on here towards those who go to a small number of games, or no longer go at all, stinks sometimes.

In all honesty, if I was still without responsibilities and had more spare cash to go on "luxuries" (and in the grand scheme of things, spending £30+ on a Saturday afternoon on football is just that), I'd likely only go to a small number of games. If the quality isn't there, I'm not going to part with my money. If the quality is there on the pitch, I'd be more willing to go.

Right now though, I honestly don't care that I'm missing games. I realise that will go against the grain on here, but so be it. I still consider myself a supporter (and I know that will open up the "how can you be a supporter if you don't support them?" argument), but going to see my team in person has slowly but surely gone from being a great experience every week or so, to something that I don't feel I'm missing out on.

--- Post edited by Totality on 27/7 12:30 ---

skiprat Posted on 27/7 12:28
re: According to SSN

Fair enough Sas. what level of price drop would that take for people to come back then? A higher rate of interest could add £50 to a mortgage over a month.

Is the only option to then take £200 off a season ticket to bring back these fans?

I see that NO-ONE has replied to the post I made earlier asking for solutions? As someone said earlier, a lot of people in this day and age are far too willing to just sit complaining without looking at doing anything about their problem.

BarnesBoro Posted on 27/7 12:31
re: According to SSN

I haven't renewed. It just doesn't make sense for the following:

I live in Manchester. This means if I'm doing the round trip to Middlesbrough for every home game. I'm never in Manchester!

Doing that many miles gets on my tits when we turn in a dire performance.

Due to living in Manchester i missed enough games. None of my friends in boro actually wanted the spare season ticket (it was going free). Therefore I'm wasting my money. Would have been cheaper to go on a game by game basis.

By doing so this year. I will probably get more joy from being a fan, because I don't have the prospect of the round trip for a game like Portsmouth which season on season is always DIRE! Plus there is something called seeing your family too much ;)

Not to mention the hundreds of pounds I will save by removing petrol, season ticket overhead, overpriced snacks etc. etc.

Simmo7484 Posted on 27/7 12:36
re: According to SSN

With regards to the atmosphere one solution would be to have a standing area. Charge £15 to get into this and completely fill it boosting the singing etc amking the whoel affair a better experience and then people inseating areas would enjoy it more. Similar to the way our european counterparts do.

Although as we all know this could never happen in the PL which is a real shme i think.

smogmeister61 Posted on 27/7 12:37
re: According to SSN

Totality....another 'older' poster if I'm not mistaken (there's a pattern emerging here that I'm sure one of you student types could do a pie chart on).

Solutions:

1. If the club are going to come out with a statement then they should either mean it and stick to it. (No-one likes to think they are getting their backs p1ssed up!)
2. If our days of 'big' spending are now gone, then lower the bloody prices for the games...TV revenue more than makes up for the loss.
3. No-one minds paying good money to see a good product(but it HAS to be good).
4. We've always voted with our feet. (look at that crowd we got when we knocked Man Utd out of the cup - which was proving a point to the club)
5. Simply tell the fans the truth. (It's finding out afterwards that people dont like)

sasboro Posted on 27/7 12:38
re: According to SSN

not sure what the solution is apart from knocking a big chuck of money off season ticket prices. perhaps knock 150 quid off it people buy them early or make a reason for a season ticket rush. I think the media and speculation on all these players earning so much money per week isnt helping while at the other end the clubs plead poverty that they cant drop ticket prices because they need the money. i think that just doesnt wash anymore with some fans.

Its a risk but i think when the club gets all this extra tv money they have to make pr gesture and pass it on to the fans so atleast the fans feel they are wanted and important. Otherwise season ticket sales will stablise at about 18-19k. and once people go match to match they will miss more games

I would also bin the category games. all that happens is people miss a game to help pay for the bigger game

--- Post edited by sasboro on 27/7 12:48 ---

Totality Posted on 27/7 12:43
re: According to SSN

Totality....another 'older' poster if I'm not mistaken (there's a pattern emerging here that I'm sure one of you student types could do a pie chart on).

Solutions:

1. If the club are going to come out with a statement then they should either mean it and stick to it. (No-one likes to think they are getting their backs p1ssed up!)
2. If our days of 'big' spending are now gone, then lower the bloody prices for the games...TV revenue more than makes up for the loss.
3. No-one minds paying good money to see a good product(but it HAS to be good).
4. We've always voted with our feet. (look at that crowd we got when we knocked Man Utd out of the cup - which was proving a point to the club)
5. Simply tell the fans the truth. (It's finding out afterwards that people dont like)

-------------

I'm approaching the ripe old age of 30, but I guess that fits me into the "older" bracket on here, doesn't it?

I agree with all five of your points there as well.

Winston_Spangler Posted on 27/7 12:48
re: According to SSN

Look at the Charlton sell out over the Christmas period last year. Cut prices filled the ground easily. Even during a time when cash is a bit tight. The enjoyment factor at the Riverside has come down dramitically over the last 5 years. The price needs to reflect this.

Full Ground = Better Atmosphere = Bigger Enjoyment = Price Increases The Following Season.

Half Empty Ground = Poor Atmosphere = Smaller Enjoyment = Price Cuts To Get People Back.

Dearg_Ban_jj Posted on 27/7 12:52
re: According to SSN

Incentives for renewing your S/T need to be looked at to stop losing the ones who we already have and that mostly boils down to 1.cost, 2.value for money,3.after-sales.
Not every supporter is diehard so treat them like customers should be.
Brewery.. piss up comes to mind with the boro its always been the case.

kermit_the_smog Posted on 27/7 12:55
re: According to SSN

If Boro was anything like Hertha Berlin i'd go every week regardless of performances on the pitch.

Lower prices, have a designated standing area (so those who do wanna sit down wont complain at everyone standing) and get everyone fueled up on beer.

Party!

Funtime_Franckie Posted on 27/7 13:00
re: According to SSN

I renewed but must admit that I was wavering as to whether to give up my red book.

I don't care how the club tries to spin the "price freeze" as good for the fans. £390 for North Stand tickets is well over priced, especially given the new tv windfall and the very low number of truly exciting games you get to see during a season. Think a lot of fans have been priced out of the game

bandito Posted on 27/7 13:02
re: According to SSN

I think £390 is reasonable for North Stand.

skiprat Posted on 27/7 13:02
re: According to SSN

Crackign stadium as well Herth's. Had a look round it last year. 76000 capacity though so they can afford a few cheaper seats with double our capacity.

The game in England IS too expensive, but in order to compete we need to charge similar prices.

Just a side note I thought about just now, Bolton and Blackburn are two of the main clubs dropping prices but are they seeing a big number of people taking up the better prices? I've not seen the figures.

Funtime_Franckie Posted on 27/7 13:03
re: According to SSN

In that case can you lend me £5k Bandito

skiprat Posted on 27/7 13:11
re: According to SSN

I also think £390 is reasonable.

How is it overpriced?

fatharrywhite Posted on 27/7 13:17
re: According to SSN

i think £390 is reasonable to. I never see it as £390 for 19 games though, more like £390 comes out of my account every august and is therefore £7.50 a week which doesnt seem a lot thinking of it that way.

Obviously for families it is a lot more but what is £7.50 now - reducing your drinks on nights out by 3 pints a week?

bandito Posted on 27/7 13:19
re: According to SSN

I'm happy to pay the £390 irrespective of what football we play or what division were in cos it's Boro at the end of the day and you have ready made access which saves any amount of hassle

mickbrown Posted on 27/7 13:21
re: According to SSN

Ticket prices reduced and 'spectacular' signing?

Blackburn have just done me proud.

smogmeister61 Posted on 27/7 13:21
re: According to SSN

This deserves to pass the 200 mark.
There's only our lot can argue amongst ourselves so well.
Who says we aren't a passionate lot.
Better than just being a bunch of clones!

Totality Posted on 27/7 13:23
re: According to SSN

Another thing I think the club should introduce is a new pricing bracket it for young adults. I think it's Derby where there's a 18-21 price which is a LOT cheaper than the adult prices are. Doesn't apply to me, but I think it would be a success if introduced.

kermit_the_smog Posted on 27/7 13:26
re: According to SSN

There is an 18-21 price for a season ticket, it's on the website.

Only for a certain part of the stadia though and i cant remember which part

Totality Posted on 27/7 13:29
re: According to SSN

Sorry I meant all around the ground. We have it in the corners don't we?

mreaney Posted on 27/7 13:29
re: According to SSN

Bollox bout football not been pretty , if u r a proper fan then this wouldnt come into it !! I accept any other proper reasons but not that. If u cant aford it, then fair enuf.

fatharrywhite Posted on 27/7 13:29
re: According to SSN

"Ticket prices reduced and 'spectacular' signing? Blackburn have just done me proud."

you seem to be under the dillusion that roque santa cruz is a spectacular signing. unless there is someone else out there that they've signed that i havent noticed.

mickbrown Posted on 27/7 13:31
re: According to SSN

You boro boys have a strange definition of 'spectacular'

fatharrywhite Posted on 27/7 13:31
re: According to SSN

there's under 18 tickets in all parts of the ground and 18-21 in the north and south west corners

Link: link

fatharrywhite Posted on 27/7 13:32
re: According to SSN

the 'spectacular' signing was one that was going to get fans buying season tickets.

Roque santa cruz doesnt come in that category.

bororedbaz Posted on 27/7 13:33
re: According to SSN

skiprat /father/bandito

390 pounds could be too high/about right/or too low, thats not the point

the club needed to reduce ticket prices to appeal to those wavering
freezing prices will not / did not make any difference

we will get the lowest average attendance at boro for a lot of years this season and that is due to the many reasons listed above

i will be surprised if we sell more than 17000 season tickets, and our average gate will be around 22500,sadly. bubble hasnt burst, more like a big hubba bubba chewy bubble that as developed its first hole and is deflating gradually allover the face of football in this country

how the club can entertain spending 6 or 7 million onhas been alan smith, but cant reduce prices by a fraction of that expense baffles me

Funtime_Franckie Posted on 27/7 13:34
re: According to SSN

Sounds like I'm in a minority here then Think it was the last couple of seasons of SMc negative football which made me start question the value of the ticket. Lost count of the number of boring games under him that we had to endure

If Southgate does manage to play more exciting football then I won't feel like the prices are too high.

Guisborough_Gadgey Posted on 27/7 13:37
re: According to SSN

I also do deals for 18-21's and under 21's...Buy two packets of sweets and I'll give you one (fnaaaar)for free.
Cheer up lads and lasses get yerselves down to me stall and fill up on E's...thats additives not drugs like...and dont forget the free season ticket deal.

Totality Posted on 27/7 13:38
re: According to SSN

Our 18-21 prices for the corners are £300. Derby charge £145 for their 18-21 season ticket, and £115 for 10-18yr olds. The Mackems charge £220 for a similar ticket.

Winston_Spangler Posted on 27/7 13:39
re: According to SSN

Mick, you're forgetting that Spectacular to us is someone like the current Brazilian player of the year. The player who's just scored a goal in the Champions League final, Portuguese player of the year, proven quality England internationals. Not some free transfer who a club want rid of.

Boromart Posted on 27/7 13:45
re: According to SSN

"you are the sort of fan who probably alienates the fans who go to only a coupl eof games a season"

"as always you dont seem to be gettin gwhat people are saying. you defend the club to the hilt"

"do you work for mfc"

"how many games do you get to a season holgateoldskool ?"

"dont you realise"

"do you understand?"

sas, chill the fook out man, I understand this is a subject that really grips your schit, but give over trying to pick fights and belittle people that have a differant opinon than you, that isn't debating and isn't doing you any favours.

There are many things that could have a small effect on attendances, I'm not convinced reducing prices will fill the stadium, there certainly isn't any evidance, just opinion. Even if it did, the result might be relegation. Would the fans be happy with a £100 ST reduction and loose Woodgate and Tuncay?

mickbrown Posted on 27/7 13:49
re: According to SSN

"Not some free transfer who a club want rid of."

That's no way to be talking of your Turkish lad.

mfc_4_ever Posted on 27/7 13:49
re: According to SSN

mreaney i made that point and was told i dont have a fuc|<ing clue!

Guisborough_Gadgey Posted on 27/7 13:53
re: According to SSN

Turkish? Did someone say Turkish? What a delight ! Ahhhh Turkish Delights I'm doin' them at three for a quid, only just out of date....well early 80's.
Soooooo get yersel' down to The Smoggies Sweet Emporium...you know you want to !.......like

sasboro Posted on 27/7 13:54
re: According to SSN

.

--- Post edited by sasboro on 27/7 13:57 ---

sasboro Posted on 27/7 13:54
re: According to SSN

i'm not getting stressed out at all just answering peoples questions why season ticket sales are falling and how to stop it. very rarely do i get stressed out i'm quite a laid back person really.

if you dont reduce ticket prices then what else can you do that will work? how do you tempt the stay away fans to come back

"Even if it did, the result might be relegation. Would the fans be happy with a £100 ST reduction and loose Woodgate and Tuncay"

dont be daft, where do you think all the extra tv money will be going? there is plenty to pass down to the fans

you have to reduce prices to get some fans back. supply and demand

fatharrywhite Posted on 27/7 13:55
re: According to SSN

yes - cos the tuncay deal was the same wasnt it.

bayern buy two new strikers and push him down list

fenerbache pissed off at losing him to us.

i can see the similarities straight away

Kilburn Posted on 27/7 13:57
re: According to SSN

I'm glad they do an 18-21 ticket, but they should go further.

Firstly make it 18-25, in line with other things aimed at young adults like the Young Person's Railcard.

Secondly, it has to be either in all of the ground, or at least at one or the other ends behind the goal. It is this age group who do most to create the atmosphere in the ground.

Thirdly, making it a few quid cheaper still, so it is under the psychologically significant £300 annually, and £15 per game mark, would make it more attractive.

Finally - publicise the thing! I had no idea that they did the 18-21 tickets.

Boromart Posted on 27/7 13:57
re: According to SSN

Now Roque Santa Cruz, there truly is a striker who doesn't score -

in his 8 years at Bayern in the league he has played 143 and scored 12. I knew he didn't have a great record, but I didn't realise it was that bad.

The real clincher though is RSC signed to play alongside or instead of McCarthy?

BarnesBoro Posted on 27/7 14:01
re: According to SSN

I imagine it's going straight in the bank to pay for our new signs on the front of the stadium ;)

Boromart Posted on 27/7 14:06
re: According to SSN

"dont be daft, where do you think all the extra tv money will be going?"
Ultimately back into players pockets, that is the way it has ALWAYS worked, and is probably the way it always will.

" there is plenty to pass down to the fans"
There is but it won't be basically because the clubs higher up the ladder are NOT budgetting for price reductions, in fact some are increasing. It may take two or three years but the financial effect of this deal will cause greater divides. A greater divide between the haves and have-nots will ultimately lead to a worse product on the pitch for the have-nots, leading to less fans coming.

It is almost impossible to reduce our income (comparable to our rivals) while staying competitive. You believe that the only way to get that money is get more fans in now, I believe if we get it right on the pitch more fans will come back.

Ideally I would like to agree with your view, in a utopian world I would have price reductions in a shot.....but not at the expense of our prem status. Personally I am happy for the club to gain every penny in income it can because I think the way footy is heading we will need it just to survive.

It's interesting that some people claim that kids are not going anymore due to cost. I personally think that a large number of kids are not going because they support the big 4 teams, kids want success, league success will never happen for Boro without a huge shake up in the prem league finances. Kids are and have been pumped with Viera, Henry, Gerrard, Keane, Owen, Cantona, Beckham for the last 10 years by sky, the result of that is less localised support.

--- Post edited by Boromart on 27/7 14:08 ---

Capybara Posted on 27/7 14:10
re: According to SSN

'Firstly make it 18-25, in line with other things aimed at young adults like the Young Person's Railcard.'

So that young adults have more money to spend on other things aimed at young adults like alcopops and vodka-based bingeing drinks.

So that young adults can take part in activities aiimed at young adults like fighting and puking in the streets.


debski Posted on 27/7 14:17
re: According to SSN

Population problem - I think not - we had over 30,000 ticket holders not so long back - so it must have been more like the black death swept through the area.Where have they gone and why - is it down to the dross on show over the past few years?

sasboro Posted on 27/7 14:17
re: According to SSN

"Ultimately back into players pockets, that is the way it has ALWAYS worked, and is probably the way it always will."

thats where it will go i agree, but it should as fans are getting peeved off with the greed. they cant expect to pay players and agents lots of cahs then complain to fans they cant drop the price cos they have no money. Its only in recent (last 20 years) that the money has gone to the players or been paid losts of it

we cant compete with the top 5 and the ones who are backed by billionaires. when we get the new tv money 2-3 million pound in reductions in ticket prices is only a small drop in teh ocean. it will not make us any better or worse than now. just as if we had an extra 3 million to spend it makes us any better. its the duty of the club to serve teh local people and the town. pricing out the fans is wrong and will only do more harm in the long term. we can afford to drop tiocket prices, i mean we have players on 30k a week like mendieta doing nothing. if none of that extra tv money end up being passed to the fans then that will hit ticket sales even more. Do you realise that even a financial outgoing like this will have a positive effect on the club and its fans. its will show the club isnt just motivated by money to rip off the fans but in it for 'sport and glory' the club just cant kid the fans into thinking they are skint but then pay agents and players pots of money.

skiprat Posted on 27/7 14:20
re: According to SSN

You make it sound like the club are happy to have players sat their on 30k a week doing fook all.

Kilburn Posted on 27/7 14:22
re: According to SSN

Posting with my Boro fan hat firmly on, Capy, I'm not really bothered what they spend the money they save on! Anyway, if there is a bigger take-up of the tickets, then that would mean less money spent elsewhere wouldn't it?

I do think it is a real worry that the age profile of fans who actually attend games is going up. I am a Boro fan at least partly because I got to go to plenty of games as a teenager. If I had got my 'football education' by watching games on TV, like more and more young fans do nowadays, then I would have been more likely to support one of the teams who were on TV constantly, because the locality factor becomes less important.

There is a real danger - already happening - of the 'Sky Generation' - all growing up to be Man U, Chelsea and Liverpool fans.

Boro do seem to recognise this, at U18 level particularly, but don't do much to hang on to fans during their formative adult years.

Towell Posted on 27/7 14:32
re: According to SSN

Going to a match isn't an experience anymore, there's no atmosphere, no sense of excitement from the crowd mainly due to a lack of any real passion on the pitch.

I'd rather spend my money in the pub for some games and pick and choose to go to others where there might be a bit of excitement.
Getting pasted by portsmouth and paying 30 odd quid for the pleasure doesn't appeal to me any more.

Kilburn Posted on 27/7 14:38
re: According to SSN

That's the other thing that needs stamping down on, people having the choice of watching the match in the pub.

The pubs are paying nothing to the club for coverage on Saturday matchdays from dodgy satellite TV, and they are definitely taking away people who might otherwise go to the game.

The pubs need prosecuting and fining if they are stealing coverage.

sasboro Posted on 27/7 14:52
re: According to SSN

"The pubs are paying nothing to the club for coverage on Saturday matchdays from dodgy satellite TV, and they are definitely taking away people who might otherwise go to the game."

dont they pay for the dodgy satellite who then pay the premier league for tv rights who then give the clubs the money?

burydweller Posted on 27/7 14:52
re: According to SSN

I dont know what the arguments are about. Boro have always been a 25k club, the excess was due to the premier leauge being a new shiny thing, and, the new stadium. Gibbo is God, however, filling in the corners was a huge mistake, for us to have 34K at the stadium we need to be playing top 4 football, and that aint gonna happen (barring a cloughie kinda miracle).

It is an unpalatable truth fellow boro fans, but it is what we should expect. Also, football is entering a new era, were the filthy rich are getting filthy richer and the rich are getting richer, it leaves two leauges in the prem. Eventually, there will be a euro leauge, and boro and the likes will be in prem division 1, while manure and the likes will be in prem euro. Bring back the 1970s and 1980s

bear66 Posted on 27/7 14:53
re: According to SSN

It's either the wrong price, the wrong product or, most probably, both.

When the ground was full and there was a waiting list for season tickets, that was the time to capitalise on the situation. The way to do it was to keep the prices to keep that situation; the club were greedy and tried to increase prices to make a fast buck . . . which turned out to be lose a fast buck. Now the 'club' suffers - that includes the fans in a zero atmosphere, half empty stadium.

We were punching above our weight with the small Teesside population. It's difficult to see us getting back to the glory days of the late '90s.

Perhaps the way forward is to install comfy armchairs for the 20-odd-thousand who will be turning up - at least the ground will be full. Were we really in a Euro Cup Final 15 months ago?

CesurYurek Posted on 27/7 14:59
re: According to SSN

You boro fans make me sick with comments like this

"There is a real danger - already happening - of the 'Sky Generation' - all growing up to be Man U, Chelsea and Liverpool fans. "

Really? So every club barring them in the prem is losing fans and ticket sales are falling? WRONG. TICKET SALES IN THE PREM ARE GOING UP BARRING ONE CLUB. BORO

Dont make out its some trend in the premiership and everyone is having falling attendences. ITs just you, you are the problem. You are the cancer of the prem.

Boromart Posted on 27/7 15:07
re: According to SSN

I agree that some reduction of ticket prices would be welcomed due to TV, but the amounts people would like are rediculous.

Yes fans are peed off with the wages, but the clubs only pay that amount because if they don't then someone else will, resulting in us gettign a worse class of player. Resulting inevitably in relegation, resulting in less fans. You don't seem to recognise that the club is not happy paying silly wages to players anymore. Take Viduka as the perfect example of that. If the club could keep the wages lower and give the money back to the fans I'm sure they wopuld....but realistically that isn't going to happen.

Yes it's only the last 20 years that players have been paid silly money, in fact I would say even less than that, it coincides with about the 3rd year of the prem league. But it is also true to say that wages have been growing disproprtionately since the late 60s. In fact there hasn't been a downturn in wages for 40 years.

"2-3 million pound in reductions in ticket prices is only a small drop in teh ocean."
Maybe, but it is effectively Tuncay and Aliadieres wages. I'm assuming this isn't a one of gesture then hike the prices up. So if over a 5 year period we throw 3mill back to the fans every season then we are reducing investment in the team by 15 million.

"pricing out the fans is wrong and will only do more harm in the long term."
I agree completely, but it isn't a localised problem its a national problem. The prem will have an Italian style disaster soon.

You mention 'sport and glory' thats correct, the club doesn't exist to fill the stadium, but to win games and that unfortunately means maximising income.

Boromart Posted on 27/7 15:11
re: According to SSN

CesurYurek, you sir are a coc, and need a good kicking.

CesurYurek Posted on 27/7 15:12
re: According to SSN

"I agree completely, but it isn't a localised problem its a national problem. The prem will have an Italian style disaster soon."

FFS Its just you, No other club is having ticket declines. Most club s have sold more season tickets, or remained stable and the ones who have remained stable are due to season ticket limits.

Stop using excuses like Sky and national trends, its just Boro.


How am I a cock, for pointing out the first thing mentioned in this thread that you are all ignoring?

BORO ARE THE ONLY TEAM TO HAVE FALLING SEASON TICKET SALES.

--- Post edited by CesurYurek on 27/7 15:14 ---

Turner_86 Posted on 27/7 15:13
re: According to SSN

Cesur is a coc, and to say we are the cancer of the Premiership is pathetic. However, his point about rising attendances is very true. Theres no excuse in my eyes, some of our fans are turning their back on the club because they can't be arsed, which is very sad.

Boromart Posted on 27/7 15:13
re: According to SSN

tell me where you live and I will gladly administer that kicking.

Kilburn Posted on 27/7 15:15
re: According to SSN

Sas - I am talking about the pubs that screen the boro game live on a Saturday afternoon, giving fans the option of going down the pub rather than going to the game.

There is a blanket ban on Sky screening live games between 2pm and 5.15 pm on a Saturday afternoon, precisely because the clubs thought it would negatively affect attendances.

The pubs showing the Boro game on a Saturday are getting it from foreign satellite broadcasters, who pay a fraction of the UK costs for the rights based on the agreement that it will not be screened in the UK.

sasboro Posted on 27/7 15:16
re: According to SSN

"maybe, but it is effectively Tuncay and Aliadieres wages. I'm assuming this isn't a one of gesture then hike the prices up. So if over a 5 year period we throw 3mill back to the fans every season then we are reducing investment in the team by 15 million."

not really as there is another £25m on the horizon in tv money. that covers plenty of their wages. also just means we have to be more astute with wages,contract and transfers. for every tuncay there is a mendieta sat doing nothing.

Boromart Posted on 27/7 15:16
re: According to SSN

spot on Kilburn, its illegal, and anyone that chooses to go to them pubs as an alternative to the game is stealing directly from the clubs coffers.

Boromart Posted on 27/7 15:20
re: According to SSN

"not really as there is another £25m on the horizon in tv money."
It's simple economics sas, if everyone gets 25mill off sky every season but we give 3 mill of that back to the fans then we are getting 3 mill less in investment in the team EVERY year. Everything is relative to the competition.

"means we have to be more astute with wages,contract and transfers."
So Hartlepool get less money than us if htey are astute enough do you think they could survive in the prem? Realistically?

"for every tuncay there is a mendieta sat doing nothing."
Every club has failed transfers, if our only method of survival is that every single transfer must be a success, yet Everton can afford for two players to flop then we will sink quite quickly.

--- Post edited by Boromart on 27/7 15:21 ---

--- Post edited by Boromart on 27/7 15:41 ---

sasboro Posted on 27/7 15:39
re: According to SSN

hartlepool? they are way below us £3m to us is like like 30k to them. what does £3m get you thse days in the premier league not much? pays for mendieta for a season. pays for riggot, gook lee, mcmahon,morrison..etc

like i say £25m coming through the tv deal and so there is plenty for them to pass onto the fans. if tehy dont then crows wil continue to drop

boro waste millions of pounds on failed signing, agents fees high wages for reserve players who never play.

you're jsut going to have to accept that the club will have to lower prices when the new tv deal comes through. its all about supply and demand. if something aint selling then drop the price. i understand you are a die hard boro fan and come back for every game but a lot of fans arnt like that. so they wont come back unless its more realistic price for people. who would go to the cinema if it was £20 a go. make it £5 a go then its always busy.

i think its time the club showed some loyalty back to the fans. otherwise crowds will continue to fall. the ball is in their court they know what they ahve to do

The_Commisar Posted on 27/7 15:44
re: According to SSN

boro waste millions of pounds on failed signing, agents fees high wages for reserve players who never play


hang on a second
it's only a waste if there are alternatives
a) Name club that doesn't pay agents way too much
b) Name a club that doesn't have failed signings
c) If you want strength in depth you are going to have to pay players a lot to sit on the bench or play in the stuffs

Straw clutching of the highest order

Boromart Posted on 27/7 15:51
re: According to SSN

"hartlepool? they are way below us £3m to us is like like 30k to them."
so you accept as fact that you need to maximise revenue to compete, the only question remaining is what is a significant amount of cash, that is subjective.

"pays for mendieta for a season. pays for riggot, gook lee, mcmahon,morrison..etc "
Get over Mendieta, we are not the only club to waste money on someone. Take the Jawdees they have flushed millions down the pan, however because they have such a higher income than us they have avoided relegation. That is what we face if we don't maximise our revenue, clubs being able to make plenty of mistakes and survive, while we make one and sink.

So if you removed those players you listed from our squad last season we would have had a bunch of teenagers playing regular. Or alternatively remove Arca and Viduka from the team, as their wages must have been around 3mill between them. We would have been deep in the scheet.

"boro waste millions of pounds on failed signing, agents fees high wages for reserve players who never play."
as does every club, we are not unique in that.

"you're jsut going to have to accept"
now why do I have to accept anything sas? Time will tell, eventually prices will drop but it will be on a national basis after the game goes from boom to doom.

"its all about supply and demand."
You talk about football fans as if they were customers going to a shop, it is entirely differant to almost every market. There is only one shop you can ever go to for life.

"i think its time the club showed some loyalty back to the fans."
I don't get this attitude that the club exist to belittle and abuse the fans, it exists for sporting glory, the chairman doesn't draw a wage and his given up a lot of his time and money to save our club. He isn't perfect but who is, and of course the marketing side could be far more professional, but I find this kind of statement completely disrespectful to Gibson and those who run the club.

--- Post edited by Boromart on 27/7 15:52 ---

--- Post edited by Boromart on 27/7 15:54 ---

sasboro Posted on 27/7 15:53
re: According to SSN

"Straw clutching of the highest order"

i dont think so. i shouldnt sayt 'boro' i mean football clubs in general.

thing is you can chuck £100m pounds each at half the mid table clubs and it wont guarantee the teams do any better. probably some will do worse,some the same and some better. the extra money when it arrives leave plenty to cream some off for the fans. The extra £3m or so will not impact the team at all. all that happens is the manager becomes more reckless with his spending and take more risks. did the extra money we got from teh fa cup run and uefa cup run really make such a big impact the following season with extra money?

where is that extra tv money going to go? does anyone know? higher transfer fees,bigger agents fees, hiogher players wages.

--- Post edited by sasboro on 27/7 15:54 ---

AtomicLoonybin Posted on 27/7 15:57
re: According to SSN

I'll tell you what. When players stop going out with - allegedly - hundreds of thousands of pounds in their pockets to win a stupid bet, or appearing in Hello! just because they got married, or when a centre half - a centre half! - gets £1m every two months then maybe the people who are disenfranchised from the game, and that's not just Boro fans, might start going back.

I bet if you took a slice through any successful premiership club at the moment, the people watching the games will not be the same people who went twenty years ago. The hardcore fans have gone, probably never to come back. You're left with the fashionistas who want to see Rooney, or Ronaldo, or Stevie G. We've gone over the hump of that, and even if we signed Riquelme, we're too cynical now. The Man Us, Chelseas can afford to p!ss off their core support because there'll always be some chump who has no idea of what the game is about who will take their place. We haven't. Those 'chumps' turned up for a few years at the Boro when it was all glittery and shiney, and now they're gone, and we've also lost the people who should be going.

As Sas has said, Boro have literally wasted millions of pounds on crap signings and wages. Yet they continue to ask the fans to pay the same amount of money. I'm not saying the prices should go down simply as an apologetic gesture because Maccarone was a bust, but the club should start living in the real world, and that will mean price drops next season unless something drastically happens this season - winning something, top 7.

They turn round next season having banked £40m from the TV for finishing (say) 12th, and ask people to pay the same again? Ain't going to happen, unless they want season tickets sales to go down again.

There is a lot of negativity from the fans, but a large part of that is down to the way they were treated by the club when the 'good times' were around. Price increases year by year, no effort to improve the Riverside surroundings, some rank rotten signings and football. They took the bet that people would continue to stump up regardless, that the newcomers would stick around, and they were proved wrong.

By the way, I am a ST holder, and I have renewed. To take up another point from above though, we won't get 25,000 this year - I bet the average, based on 14,000 STs will be around 20,000-22,000.

The_Commisar Posted on 27/7 15:59
re: According to SSN

so, you accept your statement about the boro was wrong ?
Good

If the market works that you have to pay that money out then there is nothing you can do, do you tray and by a house and say "no, I don't want to pay estate agents fees ?" I guess not

you can chuck £100m pounds each at half the mid table clubs and it wont guarantee the teams do any better

So the answer is to stop trying is it ?

where is that extra tv money going to go? does anyone know? higher transfer fees,bigger agents fees, hiogher players wages.

Yes to all of the above, theres only one raw material in football, players, if you want to buy players you have to pay wages and employ agents.

Thats the market place. Deal with it.

Boromart Posted on 27/7 16:00
re: According to SSN

you spin me right round baby right round
like a record baby,
..........baby, ..........baby, ..........baby, ..........baby, ..........baby, ..........baby, ..........baby, ..........baby, ..........baby, ..........baby, ..........baby, ..........baby, ..........baby, ..........baby, ..........baby, ..........baby, ..........baby, ..........baby, ..........baby, ..........baby, ..........baby,

sasboro Posted on 27/7 16:02
re: According to SSN

prices wont fall across the board. demand will always be high for the top4. its the rest like us,wigan,blacbkurn,bolton,fulham that will end up having to reduce prices..that is if they really want to attract more fans to the ground. ofcourse clubs waste millions too, just that club i mentioned above will have to reduce prices to get more fans in

not being disrespectful to gibson, without the fans there would be no club either. gibsons a great guy he just happens to be the lucky one worth £100m. people like you are what the club love, do anything and they come back..but not everyone is like that. they have to start to want fans to come back

"You talk about football fans as if they were customers going to a shop, it is entirely differant to almost every market. There is only one shop you can ever go to for life. "

do different, product doesnt sell so reduce the price to get more customers. maybe like you thats where the club are going wrong they take the customers for granted

Boromart Posted on 27/7 16:05
re: According to SSN

"maybe like you thats where the club are going wrong they take the customers for granted"

you cheeky booger, how dare you tell me where I am going wrong, that is rediculously arrogant of you. Why can't you respect other peoples opinions?

The_Commisar Posted on 27/7 16:07
re: According to SSN

I assume you mean
NO different, product doesnt sell so reduce the price to get more customers. maybe like you thats where the club are going wrong they take the customers for granted

I assume you did A level economics and are talking about product substitution ?

The theory (from memory) was that if you are dissatisfied with product A then you switch to product B

That works in a rational market place.

Football support is not about rational decision making.
If there would be no MFC and everyone would support Chelski.

Guisboro Posted on 27/7 16:08
re: According to SSN

I might send this thread to the club - fantastic feedback.

What is the best email address to use to get to the powers that be ?

Kilburn Posted on 27/7 16:09
re: According to SSN

"As Sas has said, Boro have literally wasted millions of pounds on crap signings and wages"

True. But that is the only option if you want to stay in the Premiership.

You can try to be more prudent, and I think the club are, but even the most shrewd managers end up pissing away millions in this league.

The alternative is to just play the home-grown kids on sensible wages. That would save a fortune, and we would be able to charge about a fiver admission as a result. In a couple of seasons we would find our level in League 1 or 2. Would 25,000 people still come in that case? The prices would be cheap, the players passionate and their wages low, but I doubt it somehow.

Boromart Posted on 27/7 16:16
re: According to SSN

Reading this thread then I suspect some people would prefer your scenario Kilburn. We would go back to being a small-time club with no ambition, but hey the tickets would be cheap and we wouldn't need to gamble on pissing money on mercenary foreginers.

You get "nothing for nothing", so here is a question what would the fans like to give up in return for lower price tickets?

SouthStandSY Posted on 27/7 16:17
re: According to SSN

Apologies if this has already been posted BUT - the way i see it, the `Boro were just about the only club that had their level of support artificially boosted by the move to a new stadium (certainly boosted the most at any rate!), as we also had the Robson era, spectacular signings and a small degree of success, without continuing stimulus it`s fair to assume parts of this support would erode away over time, that`s basically what`s happening here, with things like unattractive football, players leaving, UEFA cup runs, Cup wins etc. contributing in small blips + and - in the take up of season tickets, inevitable really, unless we suddenly turned into a trophy delivering machine overnight!.......

Dearg_Ban_jj Posted on 27/7 16:24
re: According to SSN

Football is a unique product Commi, but like any entertainment product it has to compete and hold its audience.
Perhaps "product B" is sky in the pub and many other pastimes. Boro need to sell going to home games and I dont think they are doing enough to flog it "getting them in" has all sorts of spin offs.

AtomicLoonybin Posted on 27/7 16:27
re: According to SSN

But Mart, we've already established that season ticket sales don't actually make that much difference when the club is getting untold money from TV contracts.

My East Stand ticket for the whole year pays about 1/50th of Woodgate's wage per WEEK. For John Terry, it would be 1/250th. It takes at Boro prices, 1,000 season ticket holders to pay Frank Lampard's wages for a month. Never mind the rest of the year, or Chelsea's other players. You can see that a few thousand here and there won't actually make that much difference.

Maybe if the clubs collectively took the line that they would stop paying stupid amounts of money to barely educated young men they could afford to be fairer to the fans. But then, those young men know fine well that the clubs are basically bottomless pits where actually the laws of economics don't apply - either TV will pay up, or some rich man will come along and give them what they want. So why shouldn't they ask for ridiculous amounts of money?

The clubs - not just Boro - try to sell it on loyalty, or the past or some mythical future. But if they were brutally honest, they'd say 'we can't reduce prices because Gaizka Mendieta needs a new car'.

That unfortunately is the game as it is, distateful though it is. I agree, we need to spend the money or else we turn into Crewe. But you can see why people decide they've had enough.

DMLeazesender Posted on 27/7 16:28
re: According to SSN

Think you need to be more objective lads!! In general all fans are fickle. If you exclude the big 3/4 teams there are various reasons for increased ST sales.

The three new clubs will all have increased sales, for them it could be their one and only season in the PL and they are on the crest of a wave after promotion.

Teams like Reading/Bolton excelled in their first season. They won't do as well this year and sales will drop off. Other West Ham etc have spent a lot of money, some (Man City) have been taken over, while some like Fulham have new managers. A few have reduced prices as well. Basically something has happened at most clubs to create a wave of optimism.

Boro (like us) had a poor season last year, but with the take over and new manager we too have reasons to be optimistic. Had Roeder/Shepherd stayed our ST sales would have dropped as well.

If you have a good season next year (or make the 'spectacular' signing) the fans will turn up....they always do.

John_Waynes_Jacket Posted on 27/7 16:29
re: According to SSN

our fanbase is pretty much 15 - 18,000 , anything above that was , as mr budywweller says, because of the new stadium, bryan robson , the premiership and sky tv. we also at that time had three of the most exciting signings in the league playing for us.

over the years we let that advantage slip , we never really built on what we had , most of our signings being to replace those who had left.

maybe for these 'new' supporters winning the league cup and reaching the uefa final were seen as not to be repeated highlights and they've just moved on to something new.

and there hasn't been much at the riverside these past couple of years to change that view

pokerspace Posted on 27/7 16:47
re: According to SSN

I think the club would be well advised to use a sliding scale
loyalty bonus ie 2nd year of season ticket have 5% reduction
3rd year 10% and so on, this would be a big incentive to not give your season ticket up.
Plus the season ticket should be transferable so if I cant
get to a game my mate can go.

Boromart Posted on 27/7 16:49
re: According to SSN

"But Mart, we've already established that season ticket sales don't actually make that much difference when the club is getting untold money from TV contracts."
Count the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves.

holgateoldskool Posted on 27/7 16:58
re: According to SSN

Some great theories on here but the simple question is this - Why are Boro the only club in the Premiership selling less season tickets than last season ? League position ? 12th. Not our best season not our worst.

To hear such cr*p as one player leaving, the views of Bernie - frankly they are laughable.

Yes the club arn't without fault. But if the fan base deminishes where is the motivation for Gibson ? Is he flogging the preverbial dead horse ? How many said they would return when Steve Mac left ?

Unless there is a serious injection of passion,enthusiasm and desire to go along and support the club in person the only way we will go is downwards (sadly)

TeeSv Posted on 27/7 17:02
re: According to SSN

pokerspace - 'use a sliding scale loyalty bonus ie 2nd year of season ticket have 5% reduction 3rd year 10% and so on'
I like your idea but on that basis, the club would be owing me money/paying me to go by now

--- Post edited by TeeSv on 27/7 17:07 ---

The_Commisar Posted on 27/7 17:09
re: According to SSN

Holgate, I don't think there is a single reason
There are a number of factors, most if not all of which have been re-counted here.
My personal view is that
negative publicity - and yes I mean Slaven amongst others - has not helped
poor product
range of alternatives
have all been major factors

The question is can we/you/the club do domething about it ????
If so what ?
Suggestions so far
lower the ticket cost
crack down on TV in pubs
improve the atmosphere

MFC cannot and will not please everyone. At the end of the day it's a personal choice. I've renewed, I guess you have as well.

bblf Posted on 27/7 17:19
re: According to SSN

Its because a lot of the home league games have been so bloody boring .I have followed the lads for over 40 yrs but the last few seasons Im sitting there bored stiff. I try and join in all the singing but apart from 2 or 3 games a season in the league its been crap.
Ive renewed and Im really looking forward to the season but Im just hoping its more exciting.

John_Waynes_Jacket Posted on 27/7 17:20
re: According to SSN

a few people have said these new cards have the same technology as london undergrounds 'oyster'. with the oyster you can put a season ticket on it or you can just credit it with 40, 50, 100 quid.

i wonder then if it would be possible to set aside a non-allocated seating area (there should be space enough) and then allow people who can't afford a season ticket just to charge it with whatever amount they can afford.

the club would still get some money up-front and the cardholder would still have some commitment to turning up.

it'd be especially useful to those who because of shift patterns etc know they'll only get to a dozen or so games.

pokerspace Posted on 27/7 17:23
re: According to SSN

teesv I think if you were a season ticket holder for 10 years you deserve 50% discount lol
Once we start playing more atractive attacking football and we are competing in the league the crowds will come back.
Humans are fickle.

Guisborough_Gadgey Posted on 27/7 17:23
re: According to SSN

I think people have just got better things to spend their money on like, like my sweets down at Gizzy market. Smoggies Sweet Emporium its called like, and it should be yer first stop for recently out of date sweets.
Come on now who can resist havin' a right good chew while watchin the Boro try'n to get out of our half next season? I ask yer.
I remember one game last season like when Viduka was bein' wheeled into the box for a corner..and I thought to mesel'...Byyyy these Midget Gems are fookin' smashin' like...Cheered me up no end ! Game was the Eartha Kits like.

Totality Posted on 27/7 17:33
re: According to SSN

"If you have a good season next year (or make the 'spectacular' signing) the fans will turn up....they always do."

At one time, I'd agree with you. Now, I'm not sure it would make a difference. Certainly for me it wouldn't make a difference.

Edit: The "spectacular signing" that is, not a season of good football. The latter is more important, imo.

--- Post edited by Totality on 27/7 17:38 ---

pokerspace Posted on 27/7 17:41
re: According to SSN

So you cant even call yourself a fickle fan, where's your passion man !

Jon_Gannon_on_loan Posted on 27/7 17:57
re: According to SSN

3 methods of increasing the crowds;
1. Play much, much better football - this will guarantee more people
2. Lower the prices. They're too much for a club with a fanbase like ours which is basically the same 30,000 people having to go each week. Unlike a club like Tottenham where folk from places as far away as Stevenage and Welwyn Garden City class themselves as Spurs fans and they can have a different bunch of people going each week but still fill their ground
3. Make the North stand a terrace

--- Post edited by Jon_Gannon_on_loan on 27/7 17:58 ---

Guisborough_Gadgey Posted on 27/7 18:03
re: According to SSN

...and what chance a spectacular signing with that complete (person who tosses) Gibson in charge?

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 27/7 18:11
re: According to SSN

What the club can do about it, Commisar, is to show the ambition that it showed back in the mid 90's. We played exciting football that brought the crowds in, that's what it takes. It's all about the playing field.

RedWurzel Posted on 27/7 18:41
re: According to SSN

I agree interest has dropped for loads of reasons.

The key word for me is expectation of success. That did alot to get 30000 season ticket sold. Spending ridiculous amounts of money on exotic imports, new stadium etc certainly sold season tickets on a Teesside public who had lived on scraps and survival for 15 years. Even the 2004 purchases meant we were a top 10 buyer. Now we are in the bottom 5 buyers in the Premiership, thats no one fault, but it affects expectations.

We have now been in the Premiership for 9 years, its ordinary, its no longer special, Europe has gone too this season, Fulham have spent more than us and Wigan about the same. Everyone is spending. Loads of clubs have done a Blackburn/Jack Walker and spent, spent spent.

For some the Premiership is still new, others have a new sugar daddy, most have national fan bases, There a few clubs like us anymore in the Prem, possibly Bolton, who are trying to balance the books with a local fan base and despite Europe and finishing 6th/7th last season they have cut their prices to stop a decline. Blackburn are still using Jack Walker money. Even Bolton bought Anelka with a fans donation.

Action

Club to Cut prices, particularly in less full areas of the ground
Man City charge £90 kids and £120 young adult, so we are not cheap compared with them. It does have to dramatic, maybe 10% overall, at least to make fans think they are getting better value for money. This would cost us £700K less extra concourse taking etc.

Have young adult match tickets not just season ticket, say at £15 a match

Club stewards to be a bit more flexiable particularly in North Stand/NW Stand

Freshen up entertainment, lets pretend we are new to the Premiership what would be different.

Go big in the cups, don't take them lightly, its our chance of success.

Listen to the fans more

In general games are not boring compared with the past, I have to disagree this is selective memory loss, people are mixing up expectation. 2003/4 was bad, but its improved since then, more goals at the Riverside last season than anywhere else expect OldTraf.

I do thing some fans not all fans don't realise how the foundations of the club are now stronger than 12 years ago.

I think we as fans need to bring back some passion back, we are now the financial underdogs in this division that is not always a bad thing, look hos teams like Wimbledon used into their advantage for 10 years or more. Its us against the establishment.

JONUFC Posted on 27/7 21:50
re: According to SSN

hehehehehe