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littledick Posted on 29/10 13:32
Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Approx cost of Saturdays starting X1's

Having spent that much on players they should expect to beat us everytime.

How embarrassing for Man Utd if they hadn't beaten us on Saturday.

salfordjim Posted on 29/10 13:41
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

VDS.£1m
Brown..nil,
vidic..£7m
Rio...£26m
Oshea..nil
Ronny..£12m
Owen...£18m
Anderson...£16m
Nani...£16m
Rooney..£26m
Tezez...wages

soa total outlay of ...£122....

YET...lets look at the players they replaced and the income we got from them


Howerd...£4.4m
Heinz...£8.9m
Stam..£16m
Butt/neville in midfield..£12m combined
Beckham ..£25m
RVN...£10.2m
..

so an income of £76.5...

so a net outlay of £45.5m ...

not bad for a team that will compete for top honours for the next decade...wereas you spent relative fortune from a suger daddy with little to show for it.

heaton_mersey_boro Posted on 29/10 13:47
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

You forgot to put the £750k you got for Peter Davenport in that list.

mattrich Posted on 29/10 13:48
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

or the £3 million you robbed us when we brought gary pallister back.

Boromart Posted on 29/10 13:49
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

err.......
"Stam..£16m" - that was years ago and how much did they pay for him!
"Beckham ..£25m" - not actually accurate, that was performance related for Real, who were poor during his time there.
"RVN...£10.2m" - and how much did they pay for him.

Yes Manure have generated a lot in transfer fees.....but they invested in fees for those players before that.

It's a bit rich, and naive claiming we have a 'sugar daddy', rich because the only reason manure are able to spend this kind of money is because the big clubs have manipulated the system at both a national and european level to hoard all teh money themselves.

The chairmen of footy clubs in the early 90s in this country have helped the manures of this world bring our national sport to ruin. That isn't bitterness, it's the truth. 20 years ago Norwich, Ipswich, QPR etc could and did challange for titles.....that has been taken away from the sport now! It is replaced with a closed shop situation.

Sugar Daddy? He has put some money in of course, and early on especially but to compare that as a negative to the situation I have just described, brought about by your filthy club is ludicrous. You might as well support Microsoft, Sony or Toyota as Manure, because it is purely a global brand, a business venture with no soul.

--- Post edited by Boromart on 29/10 13:51 ---

Otley_Boro Posted on 29/10 13:51
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"The chairmen of footy clubs in the early 90s in this country have helped the manures of this world bring our national sport to ruin. That isn't bitterness, it's the truth. 20 years ago Norwich, Ipswich, QPR etc could and did challange for titles.....that has been taken away from the sport now! It is replaced with a closed shop situation."

Just about sums it all up for me, well said.

salfordjim Posted on 29/10 13:51
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

No I am comparing the like for like replacements

VDS..replaced Howerd
Rio replaced stam
Oshea ..replaced Heinz
Anderson replaced..neville
Owen replaced..Butt
ronny replaced beckham
Rooney ..replaced RVN...

TheSmogMonster Posted on 29/10 13:53
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

On top of the fact that you lost money on a couple of those plyers you sold:

"Tezez...wages"

Jesus, you don't really believe THAT do you?

The rumour I heard, was £20m over the length of his contract...

ouch.

Also if you look at it your way, we spent 5m to your 40m

Sleaford_Socialite Posted on 29/10 13:53
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Didn't that old french bloke who Snowy Whelan skinned replace Stam?

GibbosEmpire Posted on 29/10 13:54
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Oshea ..replaced Heinz- OShea was there before Heinze.
Anderson replaced..neville-Anderson is a playmaker,Neville is a shyte defender/midfielder.

Wedgwood Posted on 29/10 13:55
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

On that basis, subtract £12M from Boro's £20M, for Yakubu, and proportionally Man U have still outspent Boro 6:1.

Doctor_Mick Posted on 29/10 13:56
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

They'lll still bottle it in the CL then the Glazers might start reappraising this asset.

salfordjim Posted on 29/10 13:56
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Not to mention last year when we won the league ..depsite everyone gloating we wouldnt qualify for europe and slip down the league..and with vodafone not renewing , going bust etc etc..


in that season we were the leagues LOWEST NET spenders!!!!

Link: an unbiased article

salfordjim Posted on 29/10 13:58
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"Oshea ..replaced Heinz- OShea was there before Heinze.
Anderson replaced..neville-Anderson is a playmaker,Neville is a shyte defender/midfielder."


yes but you wanted the the players who played on saturday...oshea played ..heinz was sold..

same for the other two

Boromart Posted on 29/10 13:59
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Slightly off-topic but what I want to know is why there should be a league ladder payment for the prem league?, and why the TV appearances should be have such a big spread? E.g. Boro 5 games, Manure 15.

The league needs 20 teams to exist not 4. The league needs some kind of competitiveness.....at the moment Manure have 32 gimmees and then 6 big games. All clubs play the same number of minutes in the league so deserve the same cash for that product.

The incentive to win the prem or to finish higher in the league hould NOT be cash, it should entirely be for sporting pride and prowess! that is the reason the game exists, not to make money for a bunch of yanks, russian billianaires, and investment companies.....the whole game has gone to the dogs, because no one stood up to the big 4 in the late 80s and early 90s about a euro-league. All the chairmen succumbed to this prem league idea as a way of pacifying them.....now look at what a mess it is.

--- Post edited by Boromart on 29/10 14:00 ---

TheSmogMonster Posted on 29/10 14:00
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

So because of the Chelsea compensation you were the lowest net spenders last season... can I ask what that has to do with you spending £80m + on players this season:

"Meanwhile, the two-year loan deal for Tevez, which now looks set to be settled by the High Court, could cost United up to £30m in wages and fees to the player's third-party owners."

(apparently that counts as free these days!)

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 29/10 14:02
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

I can't think of a team that's spent anywhere near as much as Man Utd since I started watching the game in the 60's.

salfordjim Posted on 29/10 14:04
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

" All clubs play the same number of minutes in the league so deserve the same cash for that product.".

.everone does, its not like spain ..SKY have a collective bargaining agreement..if united were to follow Real madrids/barcas example we could negoiate more and everyone else would get less
"The incentive to win the prem or to finish higher in the league hould NOT be cash"

in one sentance you say you want competitiveness yet inthis stament you dont...

I know you must be burning with bitterness..but the FACT is United get more money is because we have more fans paying to go and watch and pay in worldwide merchandise...

wereas you operate with a benefactor...do see the irony...

our succes is payback for the support

Paulinho Posted on 29/10 14:06
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

mate, surely you should be on the real madrid, ac milan message board. our club and yours have as much in common as coca cola and a girl scout selling homemade lemonade.

run along and go and gloat to the rest of your champions league trough-snufflers.

the better man u and the rest of the self-protectionist so d off to a euro super league the better.

does anyone outside the top four really care about the champions league any more?

the group stage is an embarrassment, it should be re-named the exhibition stage. it's just a chance to ram mcdonalds, coca cola and sony down chav's throats.

manchester united supporters are people who's lives are so empty, so without self-esteem that they have to align themselves with 'winners' to dilute their sense of under achievement, to shield themselves from the admission that they have neither the backbone nor bravery to stand alone.

This is why they align themselves with 76,000 others. They are lemmings, they are football's freemasons, they mis-understand community, they are to be pitied and ridiculed in equal measures.

chrism2050 Posted on 29/10 14:06
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

So what about the money lost on RVN?

Money Lost on Kleberson?

And Money Lost on Veron?

Barthez, Bellion, Bosnich, Tiabi (Gem of a keeper) and quite a few more.

Anybody can twist facts to make a situation look better if they don't include all of them

Sleaford_Socialite Posted on 29/10 14:11
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Laurent Blanc

Boromart Posted on 29/10 14:14
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

".everone does, its not like spain"
You entirely miss the point. The prem payments are largely position based, the differance between finishing top and finishing bottom, financially is massive. the fact is you have still played your 38 games, so it should be an equal share.

"in one sentance you say you want competitiveness yet inthis stament you dont..."
Again you miss the point, No I want competitiveness ON the field, and to do that you need financial parity off it. If you give huge financial bonuses to the winners, they get more resources, and have more chance of winning and getting more resources and more chance of winning and more resources.........until you end up with a handful of teams at the top spending 25mill on a single player and having 200million pound squads...they play against 40 million pound squads with individuals costing 4 or 5 mill. That can only lead to one thing a huge lack of competition.

"I know you must be burning with bitterness.."
Yes, I'm bitter that the national game has been sold off to investment companies, and cashmongers.

"but the FACT is United get more money is because we have more fans paying to go and watch and pay in worldwide merchandise..."
It's sport, why the fook should a marketing department define who wins! thats exactly the problem. You have more fans paying to watch, fair enough that is the one area that can offer financial incentive. However if you think Manures fortune is due to people comoing through the gate you are deeply deeply delluded.

"our succes is payback for the support"
exactly payback for support si the only financial benefit you should get, glad to see you do have some sense. If you evened out the prem yearly payments, and stopped the closed shoip that is the chumps league you would be in no position to go around hovering up all the best talent and stopping other teams from improving and offering competition.

The league has been manufactured to make it a closed shop. It's sad the demise of our game, and the people who brokered the Premier league deals should be thrown in the Tower.

Boromart Posted on 29/10 14:17
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

<round of applause> for Paulinho. Well put mate.

mattrich Posted on 29/10 14:17
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

how can they of lost money on RVN? his goal scoring record was incredible, he must of paid them back several times over.

they sold veron to chelsea for roughly what they paid for him, this must of convinced abromovich that ranieri really was an idiot and brought mourinho in.

chrism2050 Posted on 29/10 14:26
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Veron was bought for nearly 20million and sold for nearly half that. That is not roughly the same.

And RVN yes had a great goal scoring ratio but surely thats what his wages and goal scoring bonuses were for. They still lost money on him in terms of transfer funds.

mattrich Posted on 29/10 14:32
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

they sold veron for just over £16 million. no comment on your RVN reply, just hope your not looking to sell your two year old car on for a profit!

Boromart Posted on 29/10 14:34
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

The only reason they didn't pay more for RVN originally was because he had recovered from a very bad ACL injury. I think the initial deal that collapsed when he got injured was for about 5 mill more.

sasboro Posted on 29/10 14:36
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Funny thing about manutd is they are spending more money under these foreign owners than they ever had. So much for everyone claiming they would have less to spend on players

chrism2050 Posted on 29/10 14:37
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

So 16million and 29million are roughly the same then?

My point really was that the facts in this argument had been twisted to make it look like Man U had spent less than they actually have to get in the situation they are in. Comparing there spending to ours if absoluteley pointless.

Selling a player like RVN at the age he was at you could have got more for him. Unfortunately Real knew you wanted id of him so the pulled your pants down on the situation.

Noticed you didn't question any of the other names on that list

Boromart Posted on 29/10 14:37
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

it's an obvious long term investment. They are all young players that the managment know they can get big money on, or a LONG time of service.

I think we all hoped the new owners would cut invesetment, but it didn't turn out that way.

salfordjim Posted on 29/10 14:40
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

sorry about that the phone went and I was diverted eleswhere...

I would address each poster individually , I will tackle each point instead..

"However if you think Manures fortune is due to people comoing through the gate you are deeply deeply delluded".... that is only part of the point, I was trying to make..United recieve approx £2.8 m for gate reciepts every home game..a direct corrlelation ( spell?) between support and income..the other income is TV money and EVERYBODY benefits without prejudice ..everone gets the same number of games for the same amount of TV money

as for merchandise..we have the most fans , and if they choose to spend it of tat , so be it.

the league postional payments is decided by the PL not sky ..and has no reflection on club...

as for CL money , well again its there for everbody to qualify , if they play well( see newcastle) ...we qualified for 7 consectutive seasons with a team that cost less than £30m from 1993-1999


"manchester united supporters are people who's lives are so empty, so without self-esteem that they have to align themselves with 'winners' to dilute their sense of under achievement, to shield themselves from the admission that they have neither the backbone nor bravery to stand alone."

i think thsi statement is pure soccer am...for the myopic poster..

if we were to fall into this catergory you describe....why were we still getting the highest crowds evern thou we didnt win the league for 26yrs.. and had the highest crwds of any club weven when we were relegated "

football didnt start with Murdoch

"

Paulinho Posted on 29/10 14:49
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

which is why every town in the country has a harem of snotty skateboarders with lank hair and a rooney shirt on their back.

myopic?

manchester united supporters are the disenfranchised, the bullied and the bullies. they are people who want to get their own back on life, they sit on bar stools watching games in their B.O. drenched replica shirts, they talk, in their kent/norfolk/dorset accents about us and we.

The are caravaners, they are sovereign-wearers, they are trace and julie, kevin, brandon and waaaaaaaaaaayne, the next evolutionary step will eradicate them from the world.

They are the tail where only a stump not juts, they are fixed thumbs, they are natural born smokers, they are h dropping trolls, they are one step from oblivion.

salfordjim Posted on 29/10 14:52
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"which is why every town in the country has a harem of snotty skateboarders with lank hair and a rooney shirt on their back.

myopic?

manchester united supporters are the disenfranchised, the bullied and the bullies. they are people who want to get their own back on life, they sit on bar stools watching games in their B.O. drenched replica shirts, they talk, in their kent/norfolk/dorset accents about us and we.

The are caravaners, they are sovereign-wearers, they are trace and julie, kevin, brandon and waaaaaaaaaaayne, the next evolutionary step will eradicate them from the world.

They are the tail where only a stump not juts, they are fixed thumbs, they are natural born smokers, they are h dropping trolls, they are one step from oblivion. "



you really shoud see someone for that paranoia you have....you do have tendancy to make general sweeping statements without ectually thinking dont you?...

do you know every united fan...can you come up with a few more cliches they are brand new and sooo witty

Beelzeebub Posted on 29/10 14:54
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Top four should phook off into a European Super League, really I'd rather we played West Brom, Ipswich etc. from "div 2" than you lot. It's pointless, expensive and futile.

It would suit the Glazers base it along the lines of the NFL, great product - enjoy...

chrism2050 Posted on 29/10 14:55
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

I liked that Paulinho,

For some reason I had the Trainspotting tune running through my head when I read that.

Choose Life!!!

salfordjim Posted on 29/10 14:56
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

I support the team ...not the current owners...

I see you boys like your sugar daddy though

Otley_Boro Posted on 29/10 14:57
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

The big 4 leaving the English league would defo be a good thing.

Boromart Posted on 29/10 14:57
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"United recieve approx £2.8 m for gate reciepts every home game..a direct corrlelation ( spell?) between support and income"
Very true. Now where did the money for that sparkly stadium come from? Where did all these fans come from? They came from the fact that the prem generated more money for the big clubs than it did for the smaller clubs. This allowed you to invest in both marketing and stadium, thus createing even more money. It also at the same time gave you a global market to generate even more money.

"..the other income is TV money and EVERYBODY benefits without prejudice..everone gets the same number of games for the same amount of TV money" -- Sorry but that is completely wrong. It is not an even number of appearances. everyone does get the some cash per appearance, but the big 4 get far more appearances.

"as for merchandise..we have the most fans , and if they choose to spend it of tat , so be it.".......but you have the ratio of manure fans is growing because of the marketing work done on your behalf by Sky.

"the league postional payments is decided by the PL not sky ..and has no reflection on club...".....I know it's done by the PL, but it doesn't matter who it is done by, the point is that there is no need for it. In fat in a competitve league like the NFL, the benefits are actually reverse league ladder to help promote competition.

"as for CL money , well again its there for everbody to qualify" -- but you are completely aware that no one outside the big 4 will ever qualify for 2 seasons running, which is what you need to be able to actually get a bit of regular revenue moving into the coffers. Surely even a manu fan can see that the chumps league is nothing more than a revenue generating marketing baord designed to keep G14 clubs happy.

Beelzeebub Posted on 29/10 15:05
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Oopsy

--- Post edited by Beelzeebub on 29/10 15:06 ---

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 29/10 15:16
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

The rules governing the sharing of football match gate receipts were changed to benefit the clubs with most supporters some time ago. It was done to stop them breaking away to form a European league. It's the biggest mistake the game has made in its history. They should have been allowed to break away, banned from playing against the remaining clubs and their players barred from international football.

What we now have is a Mickey Mouse league that a few clubs dominate.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 29/10 15:20
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

'I see you boys like your sugar daddy though'

This is often reported and is a misconception. We spend what comes in to the club through gate receipts, club shop funds etc. Anything on top of that we have to borrow.

Leave the duff newspapers alone Jim.

stantheman Posted on 29/10 15:20
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

chelsea.

dont mention it.

Paulinho Posted on 29/10 15:37
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

manchester united are the harlem globetrotters of the premiership.

they are footballing firework display whose games are attended by window lickers... wooooo!!! look, there's a ronaldo catherine wheel dive.... aaaaahhhh... oh, look at Ferdinand giving the referee a rocket... wwweeeee look at little spotty twat rooney, he's the greatest you know...

manchester united aren't a football club, they are an umbrella under which a shower of shi te consume their mcfootball, don the mcfootball shirts and quaff their mcprawn sandwiches.

they peddle out their mcexuses about being supporting them since 518Ad, being born on the Old Trafford centre circle and other all-too-well-rehearsed excuses.

Mine excuse for following Middlesbrough is three-fold, simple and without the need for caveat, explanation or any other assorted guff:

I was born in Middlesbrough.
My dad was born and supported Middlesbrough.
He told me I was a Middlesbrough supporter.

You see, you don't get to choose.

As soon as you do, or anyone in your lineage did, your opinion counts for nought.

That's why I feel sorry for Man U supporters because you'll never feel what we felt winning a poxy League Cup. To us, it was a rare moment of nirvana amongst a lifetime of anonymity.

I wouldn't swap that first 15 seconds for all the McChampions Leauges and McPremierships you can throw at me.

OUR CLUB won that cup.

you don't have one.

Now, as I said, toddle along, go prize open your semen-encrusted Wayne Rooney annual and leave us alone to morbidly over-analyse our players/team/club's comparative shortcomings.

heaton_mersey_boro Posted on 29/10 15:40
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

*standing ovation for Paulinho*


salfordjim Posted on 29/10 15:50
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

could you be more Mr cliche...do you get all your myopic opinions from SKy and the ABU press...

do you not think that united fans have had it for yrs form no marks like you , wigan, southampton etc..all getting into this post sky ABUism..pathetic..


I was born in manchester
mt dad was born in manchester
my brother was born in manchester..
and for 26yrs we had the odd cup whilst them down the A580 landed title anfter title...do you not think that we are "real " fans.....we stuck it going to games when we werent the £soccer" experieice...

the game has changed , the clubs have changed ..you views are typical Lovejoyesque in the extreme...

for all those yrs we showed up and supported the team ..full houses year in year out...can you sya your fans have done the smae...NO, you packed up cause you couldnt be arsed...yet when United come to town ..its full house...surely this typifies the Boro gloryhunter..wanting to bask in either the united glow or gloat inits demise...not so much supporting your own club as hating united..sad very sad

Boromart Posted on 29/10 15:51
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

encore!, encore!

salfordjim Posted on 29/10 15:52
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

I thank you ...

Pauluka Posted on 29/10 15:53
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Are you still here? Haven't you got a flight to book

Boromart Posted on 29/10 15:53
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

I hated Manure 15 years before the prem existed and before 20 years before I had heard the name lovejoy. So bollox to that post.

salfordjim Posted on 29/10 15:55
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

no ... the traffic through town to gatwick is terrible......











make your mind up is it

guildford
devon
singapore


I have never heard them before ...your sooo witty

heaton_mersey_boro Posted on 29/10 15:55
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"yet when United come to town ..its full house"

No its not, don't kid yourself. Be lucky to get 27k this season.

Boro gloryhunter . Made me chuckle that. You really have'nt a clue have you?

salfordjim Posted on 29/10 15:56
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

" hated Manure 15 years before the prem existed and before 20 years before I had heard the name lovejoy. So bollox to that post"


so that will make you around 55-60 yes....dont you think thats a little sad grandad...manure, very skyish language

Pauluka Posted on 29/10 15:57
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Jim, I couldn't give a toss where you are from, Salford, Devon, Ireally don't give a fook. Just like I couldn't give a fook about your circus of a club

salfordjim Posted on 29/10 15:58
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

then dont make cliched comments and dont reply ...bye ...missing you already

jam69 Posted on 29/10 15:58
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

wrong jim,what happens is all clubs lose surporters who are fed up with prices etc,at middlebrough we dont have the catchment area to replace these fans,hence the drop in crowds whilst at united you get the prawn sarnie fans taking the place of the real fans leading to an awful attmosphere.
jim iam sure you have been following utd long enough to see you are a dying breed.alot of real working class mufc fans have long since left for f.c. united,can you honestly say you have not noticed the change in your crowd?

Pauluka Posted on 29/10 15:59
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

I didn't, I was reffering to your future Chumpions League games that you think everyone on the planet is actually bothered about.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 29/10 16:00
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Not at all Jim, you've been hated throughout the country since I started watching in the 60's. The attitude of yourself and other no mark glory hunters. The arrogance that you seem to thrive on. The way your club were pushed down our throats by the press for a quarter of a century years while you were also rans.

salfordjim Posted on 29/10 16:01
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"wrong jim,what happens is all clubs lose surporters who are fed up with prices etc,at middlebrough we dont have the catchment area to replace these fans,hence the drop in crowds whilst at united you get the prawn sarnie fans taking the place of the real fans leading to an awful attmosphere.
jim iam sure you have been following utd long enough to see you are a dying breed.alot of real working class mufc fans have long since left for f.c. united,can you honestly say you have not noticed the change in your crowd"



at last a real poster..I was beggining to wonder?....Yes I agree with your statmetn whole heartley

my ire has been aimed at the "faom hand happy clappy" burberrry boys who think they invented "soccer"..

salfordjim Posted on 29/10 16:03
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

" didn't, I was reffering to your future Chumpions League games that you think everyone on the planet is actually bothered about"

then dont watch it..do someting else..nobody forces you to...


"Not at all Jim, you've been hated throughout the country since I started watching in the 60's"..then for a man of your age..you should be having a lie down with your sanatogen....have you got your winter payment yet?

littledick Posted on 29/10 16:04
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Man U fans brought up from childhood, supporting MUFC, attending games from a very early age...........they're ok, but when you get bandwaggon jumpers from out of the area, they just pi$$ you off big time

My mate was telling me, that at a Man U v Boro game, a few year back, they parked their car about 1/2 mile away from Old Trafford, and another car pulled up and parked next to them at the same time.
Four 'lads' decked from head-to-toe in Man U regalia, got out, and one of them, pointing his finger out, shouted in his best cockney accent, 'I think the grounds over there lads'

How fcuking embarrassing

Pauluka Posted on 29/10 16:04
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

I don't, I was asking you if you had a flight to book!

salfordjim Posted on 29/10 16:06
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

your right ...so long ,

Pauluka Posted on 29/10 16:07
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Ah bless

Boromart Posted on 29/10 16:07
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"so that will make you around 55-60 yes....dont you think thats a little sad grandad...manure, very skyish language". Nope not 55, maths not a strong point in guildford schools?

Skyish?, they knicked it off me, I've been using it since before the prem existed, and unlike the swathes of simple minded manure fans, I will not change my opinions, lexicon and character and ethos based on what sky tell me to do.

I refuse to use the word "United", that relates to sheffields better half, I won't use 'Man United" because it sounds like a support Group for Gay men, and I won't use "Manchester United", because the links with the city are at best tenuous. So "Manure" it is.



--- Post edited by Boromart on 29/10 16:10 ---

TheDoveman Posted on 29/10 16:08
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

'I was born in Middlesbrough.
My dad was born and supported Middlesbrough.
He told me I was a Middlesbrough supporter.'




And you think no one in Manchester - the third largest populated city in the country can say the same thing about where they live, and what team their Dads support?

jam69 Posted on 29/10 16:11
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

they do,to which the kid replies "so why are we eating feckin jellied eels then dad"?

stantheman Posted on 29/10 16:12
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

you didnt think that through very well did you....

Byzantine Posted on 29/10 16:13
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Er... salfordjim. Rio and Rooney were £30m, you dipshit.

Paulinho Posted on 29/10 16:35
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

i really don't understand what your fascination is with this board. we're a corner shops to your hypermarket.

i don't get why you're not on the barcelona board, not us. we've got nothing in common with you. we're a parochial club quite happy with our lot.

as i said before, go and watch 'rio's world cup cock ups' or whatever it is you mudpeople do when you're not cramming another box of mchargreaves fries into your greasy mouths.

if you don't win the premiership this year, you'll just go and buy ronaldinho from barca or messi or kaka, or whoever you want because you're the greatest club the world has ever seen or some such.

and if you don't win the champions league i'm sure we'll hear about how 'sir' (how someone who can endorse serial cheating and intimidation be knighted is beyond me) alex/alec mcferguson really does deserve another after 'that famous yawn night'.

liverpool are twenty times the club manchester united will ever be - despite becoming a global brand they have retained the sense of honour, humour and community. they're champions league win was borne from perseverance and endeavour, yours was just fluky - and you were completely outplayed.

Wafty_Crank Posted on 29/10 17:23
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"The rumour I heard, was £20m over the length of his contract..."



Ah, so rumours equate to facts, do they?



God help the kids of Middlesbrough in the 1980s, then...mind that was MORE than just rumour, wasn't it?

Wafty_Crank Posted on 29/10 17:29
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"Slightly off-topic but what I want to know is why there should be a league ladder payment for the prem league?, and why the TV appearances should be have such a big spread? E.g. Boro 5 games, Manure 15."



Simple. Take a look at the viewing figures. People who have NO affiliation with either team (and in that I include all the clueless shitheads who cheer for United in their pubs all over the country - take those OUT of the equation), given a choice of watching United v Wigan, or Middlesbrough v Reading.

Which one do you think the NEUTRAL would watch, out of those two? It's not United's fault (and less so, United fans) that the nation is populated by gormless simpletons who moan about United being on tv etc, then watching every game they play in on the box, or actually getting off their arse and going to their local ground when United visit (something Middlesbrough fans in particular should be very familiar with) but not for anyone else, is it?

Oh, in your world, perhaps it is...

chrism2050 Posted on 29/10 17:30
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Original, Well done

TheSmogMonster Posted on 29/10 17:31
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

I never presented it as a fact but as a rumour, thats why I said 'the rumour is'.

You're just plain stupid fella..... I mean really stupid, bet you felt so clever as well.

chrism2050 Posted on 29/10 17:35
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Would a neutral want to watch a one sided affair with Man U destroying Wigan or a well matched hard fought battle between two teams the are more closely matched.

I know whitch one I'd prefer. You might have had a better argument if you aid Man U v Liverpool or Boro v Reading both of whitch the neutral would like because they would be competative and not one sided.

Not every neutral in a Man U fan

MfM_69 Posted on 29/10 17:45
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"Would a neutral want to watch a one sided affair with Man U destroying Wigan or a well matched hard fought battle between two teams the are more closely matched"

As a neutral observer of many game, I would want to watch the one that offered me the best football and/or goals.

Boromart Posted on 29/10 17:48
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

but wafty, without a Wigan to play then it doesn't matter. They are much a part of the spectacle as you are. Without Wigan the TV attendance for your example match would be ZERO. Therefore Wigan deserve a twentieth share of the income of the premier league.

This is a sport, players and clubs should be motivated by the thought of picjking up the trophy not by how much profit the owners can make from placement on the league ladder. It's a complete and utter joke.

My beef isn't even with Manure supporters, it's with the evolution of the game. When foreign 'investors' come in and take over our clubs, then it is for one reason - profit. This used to be about sporting prowess not lining some media tycoon, or a russian oligarchs pockets with our hard-earned.

The premier league has been immensely damaging to the majority of teams in this country. It's no surprise that after the first 10 years of the prem the status quo was settled and the barrier to entry that those big-4 clubs wanted was created. Other than Evertons minor dalliance with the CL its's been a closed shop for several years. How is that healthy for the game?

It's time for change again. Of course Manure fans will fight tooth and nail against any change they enjoy this financial dominance that has been managed by men in suits rather than players on the pitch. They also recognise the days of big name signings will be gone as soon as change arrives, and that a purge of their squads will follow as they could not afford these large squads with parity ion financial distribution.


For me Manures spell of dominance of the english game will always be sullied by the fact it was NOT earned on the training ground, or on the playing field, but in the boardroom, through the financial powerbrokers, the premierleague chairmens yes men, and through the threat of break away european leagues to make sure they got the biggest share of money they could.

It must really fook Manure fans off that Liverpoo actually won their trophies entrely ON THE PITCH, without ruining the national game.

What makes me laugh even more is the bleating of Manure fans at Chelseas bought titles. Well at least they did it on the table for everyone to see. Manure did it in an underhand devious manner by manipulating the finances of the game by threatening to form a euro superleague if they didn't get the lions share of the cash, and by depriving other clubs of their fair share. Not only did they buy the titles, they also sucked the soul from the game at the same time.



--- Post edited by Boromart on 29/10 18:06 ---

boro74 Posted on 29/10 18:03
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

The teams that finish near the top get a lot more money than the teams that finish near the bottom.

So it's fairly obvious that the teams that finish near the top will get even better. And the gap to the teams near the bottom will grow.

This will mushroom from year to year making the Premiership non-competitive and boring. Unless something is done about it.

TheSmogMonster Posted on 29/10 18:06
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"This will mushroom from year to year making the Premiership non-competitive and boring. Unless something is done about it."

I think we're at that point now myself and thats why the post 96 fans are all slipping out of distance at all but a few clubs.

Wafty_Crank Posted on 29/10 18:34
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Your problem is that you don't understand there will always be one club who has more than everybody else. It doesn't mater if it's United, if United ceases to exist (still not beyond the realms of possibility thanks to glazer) there will still be a richest club.

For what it's worth, I agree that tv money should be shared equally, indeed I'm pretty certain that it is.

You do your argument no favours (indeed, serious harm) with your failure to understand that

United may have benefitted from being champions right where the big money came into the game, but it was a quirk of fate and not United's doing.
It might suit your agenda to believe that Liverpool was an altruistic organisation existing only for the benefit of their fans and other clubs, however facts (the only thing that matter) prove the exact converse. Or do you think players moved there without transfer fees being involved?
How have United ruined the game? They haven't. In exactly the same way that if Watford or Plymouth had been the main beneficiaries of PL money, they wouldn't have been responsible either. The fault lies with greedy businessmen, and foolish mugs who are happy to spend £50 a month for Sky tv (I am not one of them), NOT any of the clubs, and despite it not suiting you, that includes Manchester United.
United's board opposed the Glazer takeover, the fans more so, indeed still do. Yet you slate foreign owners as if you think we begged them to come. Do you think showing such staggering ignorance is going to make us see any credibility in your posts?
The Premier League has NOT, in any way, been dmamging to the majority of clubs in this country. Greedy and foolish chairmen, gambling not only their money, but the future of the clubs they are supposed to be running, have done that. I don't care how much you want to blame someone else, that is fact, and if you can't/won't see it, it doesn't make it any less true.
Furthermore, the Champions League (and the name makes me want to vomit) doesn't exist because of the premier league, does it? The rules regarding qualification are that the top 4 qualify. Should we just draw qualifiers out of a hat? The only alternative recently discussed is that the FA Cup winners should get a Champions League place. Would you prefer that? You would? Great - then take a look at the winners of the competition since the Champions League came into existence.
And so United's dominance will end if the financial restraints change, will they? Do you think a different team will win the league every season? If only you were old enough to remember 1977-1988...after all, no one team dominated football then, did they?

As for your last paragraph, I can only assume someone is piping LSD in your water supply. Because I was on LSD the last time I was so detached from reality.

joeboltons Posted on 29/10 18:52
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Salford Jim

When and why do you think your magnificient support developed.

Because to go from the worst supported team in the top flight, (worse than Grimsby) to the best takes more than a Munich disaster.

Also your 26 barren years contained a European Cup win,4 FA Cup wins and at least 2 other finals.Probably 10-12 top 4 finishes.
Not comparable with a barren run that say Manchester City have had to put up with, is it ?

M27Holts Posted on 29/10 18:52
Er.....

I was Born in Swinton, a suburb of Manchester about 5 miles from Old Trafford (The closest football league ground to where I was born).
My Father was a Manchester United Fan as was his Dad, so was my Mum and Older Brother.
Thus I was taken to OT and I can never ever remember a time when United wasn't my team (I was born in 1965).
Thus your argument is as pointless as your United-a-aphobia.....

RedWurzel Posted on 29/10 19:32
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

MU spent more in 3 weeks in the Summer than the whole of the Boro squad has cost over the past 4 years. Any neutral will tell you there is an enormous gulf in resources, I think Salford Jim just likes to argue. The gap between Boro and MU on the financial front is like comparing Boro to Darlo.

What may football fans don't realise is that MU have enormous debts, the Glaziers bought the club and then put the loan they had used on the clubs books.

It also made me laugh to hear MU fans saying they played to completely full stadiums in the past. I lived in Manchester in the mid 8os and they played to crowds of around 33000 for some games in a stadium which held 60000 and that was league games. Half the City supported Man City, But United support was heavily boosted by people from places like Workington and Scunthorpe even before hordes of Koreans and Scandavians with their megastore bags arrived.

I do think there is some solid MU fans from places like Salford and Swinton who would suport ther club through think and thin, but there are so many hangers on. Its not alot different at Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool. They have bullied the Premier League in to TV deals that suit them, if any of the smaller teams protest, the breakaway rumours began. So teams like Boro bow down and bite our lips. One day the authorities and the media will discover they have killed our major league and fairer league will develop on the US model which will create more excitement and more unpredictability.

Paulinho Posted on 29/10 19:44
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

get over yourself, man u-phobia? I couldn't careless whether you win the next 15 Premierships or go completely out of business.

mcman utd have no bearing whatsoever on me or my club, you are the westlife to my radiohead.

andyjd79 Posted on 29/10 23:22
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

bloody hell, is that stella advert playng again? cause as i was reading this post im sure i could hear a tiny violin playing in the background......

Frank_Frontbottom Posted on 30/10 8:49
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

For fûck sake, grow up you bad, bad twát.

delamici Posted on 30/10 8:50
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"liverpool are twenty times the club manchester united will ever be - despite becoming a global brand they have retained the sense of honour, humour and community. they're champions league win was borne from perseverance and endeavour, yours was just fluky - and you were completely outplayed"

I hate the mancs as much as the next manc-hater...but you are one of the biggest bellwhiffs I have come across.
Where is the honour,humour and community involved in murdering 39 rival fans.
Where is the honour,humour and community in fighting each other and stealing tickets off their own as happened in Athens?
Even now those loveable murdering scum are having trouble with O O T getting abuse at their home games.OOT -out of towners.
If you love that murdering scum so much,why not support them?I bet you are one of them sadbastards who say..."Oh,I support Boro but I love watching Liverpool...and yes...they are my 2nd team"
You bellend whopper.

BillBones Posted on 30/10 9:27
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Born in Manchester? Support Manchester City then and not Salford United.

salfordjim Posted on 30/10 9:31
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

manchester United are NOT in Salford...Salford is a seperate city to manchester....just to set the record straight....and by the way if it is a prerequiste to live in the place the team is based...why do you have supporters called salfordboro..and heaten mersey boro..

BillBones Posted on 30/10 9:33
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

There's a difference between coming from a place and living there.

salfordjim Posted on 30/10 9:40
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

well over th last few months quite a few of your posters have told us that they come from areas outside of Boro

Boromart Posted on 30/10 9:48
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

You've spouted so much drivel that it will be a loooong post to answer it all....

"Your problem is that you don't understand there will always be one club who has more than everybody else. It doesn't mater if it's United, if United ceases to exist (still not beyond the realms of possibility thanks to glazer) there will still be a richest club." -- if you read my posts without prejudice, you will see that I have no problem with someone being richer, what I have a problem with is the disparagy between the rich and the poor and the methods employed to allow this disparagy to come about.

"For what it's worth, I agree that tv money should be shared equally, indeed I'm pretty certain that it is." -- For the last time, you are wrong, it is not. The sky money is given in 3 sections.

Firstly a single equal payment to all 20 members.

Secondly an amount of money multiplied by the league position. So if you finish 20th you get £500K x 1; 19th gets £500K x 2 = 1mill.....1st gets £500K x 20 = 10mill.

Thirdly appearance based money. I can't remember the exact amount but I recall it's around 1mill per appearance. Look at the schedules you will see The big 4 are on EVERY week without fail, usually 2 or more of them play. If they are on every week then it is mathematically impossible for everyone to have parity in number of appearances.

You do your argument no favours (indeed, serious harm) with your failure to understand the above!

"United may have benefitted from being champions right where the big money came into the game, but it was a quirk of fate and not United's doing." -- It is partially uniteds doing. The traditional big sides threatened a breakaway league, which resulted in the formation of the Premier League, including rules on how the money was dished out that suited the big clubs. So the directors of Manure at that time were partly to blame.

"Liverpool ....Or do you think players moved there without transfer fees being involved?" -- of course, but they did not have this huge disparagy in income to act as a barrier to entry for all other clubs. they had to do it in a much more competitive financial arena, thus what they achieved was far more impressive. Your denial of this fact just shows that the truth hurts!




--- Post edited by Boromart on 30/10 9:53 ---

Boromart Posted on 30/10 9:50
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"In exactly the same way that if Watford or Plymouth had been the main beneficiaries of PL money" -- and that is where your argument falls over completely. If you think a football club exists to make money, rather than for sporting achievement then the whole ethos of sport is lost on you. Yes Watford have earned lots of money with dalliances with the prem.......but in sporting terms they have been robbed of the chance of competing on an even field by nothing more than a series of contracts that 18 clubs were bullied and coerced into signing 15 years ago. To claim that Watford have benefited in some way completely ignores the fans, the reason the game exists. Watford in the early 80s were able to rise to a championship challenging side, that possibility has now been ripped from them. Wtford fans are now subject to nothing more than fighting to get in the prem, then fighting to avoid the drop and nothing can get them out of that loop. How on earth is the fact that the club had a higher income than in the 80s actually of any comfort to the supporters? The game does not, or should not exist to make money, that should be a by product of the sport.

"Yet you slate foreign owners as if you think we begged them to come." -- Assumptions make you look stupid. I know that many local manure fans didn't want the foreigners, the sky generation fans, though lapped it up.

" Do you think showing such staggering ignorance is going to make us see any credibility in your posts?" -- I think you ignorantly calling those who don't agree with you "ignorant" makes you sound an arrogant dick.

"The Premier League has NOT, in any way, been damaging to the majority of clubs in this country." --- ONLY if you measure damage in terms of the clubs finances, if you measure in terms of sporting ethos then the prem league has ripped the heart out of the game. It has destroyed the competitve nature.....and what exactly is sport if not competition? and I'm not talking boardroom competition, but competition within the confines of a field of play.

"I don't care how much you want to blame someone else, that is fact, and if you can't/won't see it, it doesn't make it any less true." -- EXACTLY, because you happen to support one of the privileged few, and because you are happy, nay desperate for the status quo to continue you are unwilling to see the bigger picture....but that doesn't make it any less true.

"Furthermore, the Champions League (and the name makes me want to vomit) doesn't exist because of the premier league, does it? " -- I never said that it did.

"The rules regarding qualification are that the top 4 qualify. Should we just draw qualifiers out of a hat?" -- no, we should abandon it, and go to an FA cup equivalent but for ALL top flight european sides. If you played a 1 leg tie, just like the FA cup, with ALL 700ish top flight teams, you could win the trophy and still play less games than the current chumps league winners do! That competition exists in its current format for one reason MONEY.

By the way, Hollands second chumps league spot is decided by an end of season play-off spot.

"If only you were old enough to remember 1977-1988...after all, no one team dominated football then, did they?" -- Villa, Leeds, Spurs, Forest, Ipswich, Sunderland, Southampton all won major trophies in that era.



--- Post edited by Boromart on 30/10 9:56 ---

Chappy_112 Posted on 30/10 9:53
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Don't forget the money they lost on Forlan and Djemba-Djemba

delamici Posted on 30/10 9:56
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

No wonder your attendances are so low.
Most of you are on here writing long,boring,stupid ffucking essays you sad sad arsewipes.

Boromart Posted on 30/10 9:57
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

delamicil, if you don't wanna read it fook off di(khead.

BillBones Posted on 30/10 10:00
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

It doesn't even work anyway. There isn't a match at the Riverside until Saturday. It might take you five days to write a few coherent sentences mate...

Salford United

salfordjim Posted on 30/10 10:00
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

and the money made on rossi, Spector, Evans , Chadwick , timms, bakke, all unknowns ..but brought in revenue that offset the losses on thos two..in fact your club piad us handsomely for a player that cost us nothing ,,cheers

Boromart Posted on 30/10 10:02
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

well that is something to do with the underhand methods employed by manure to poach kids from other academies. To be fair, Liverpoo, Chelsea and Arse are just as bad now.

TheSmogMonster Posted on 30/10 10:04
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"why do you have supporters called salfordboro..and heaten mersey boro.."

A lot of us move here for work/uni and don't move back straight away.

For me its a good place to get experience in my field and a good place for the Mrs to do the training, lots of stuff on, good nightlife.

Wouldn't like to bring kids up here though, too many shootings, so I'm moving back up to Boro in a couple of years.

You don't get many Boro fans without a blood or geographical connection.

As for Man U fans going through hard times... HAHA yeah you're the real fans of the game, take a pin, pin it in the Conference North league table and you'll find fans who've stuck with their clubs through crap you wouldn't believe.

Roy Keane on winning the FA cup: "yeah its nice"

BillBones Posted on 30/10 10:05
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

and the money made on rossi, Spector, Evans , Chadwick , timms, bakke, all unknowns ..but brought in revenue that offset the losses on thos (sic) two..in fact your club piad (sic) us handsomely for a player that cost us nothing ,,cheers


Brilliant! You made loads of money on that lot didn't you?

--- Post edited by BillBones on 30/10 10:05 ---

Boromart Posted on 30/10 10:22
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

...and just for you Wafty, here is the breakdown of monies earned for league placing for season 05/06:-

Chelsea £9,669,220
Manchester United £9,214,259
Liverpool £8,729,298
Arsenal £8,244,337
Tottenham Hotspur £7,759,376
Blackburn Rovers £7,274,415
Newcastle United £6,789,454
Bolton Wanderers £6,304,493
West Ham United £5,819,532
Wigan Athletic £5,334,571
Everton £4,849,610
Fulham £4,364,649
Charlton Athletic £3,879,688
Middlesbrough £3,394,727
Manchester City £2,909,766
Aston Villa £2,424,805
Portsmouth £1,939,844
Birmingham City £1,454,883
West Bromwich Albion £969,922
Sunderland £484,961

This does not include money for appearances. It is worth noting that the new deal adds approximately 50% onto each of these figures. This the bottom team will earn aroun 727,442 and the top side will earn 14,548,830.

With the new deal the differance between top and bottom will increase from 9,184,259 to 13,821,388, and thats before you start on the appearance money. AGAIN the rich getting richer the poor getting relatively poorer.

...and if you multiply that 8-9 mill head start over the last 10 years that the big 4 have stayed the same, then that becomes 80-90 million pounds of investment that the big 4 have got, thus the barrier to entry is created.

--- Post edited by Boromart on 30/10 10:23 ---

CheshireBoro Posted on 30/10 10:23
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

What a read all that was!!!

I am from Boro, but live 15 miles from Manchester now. Should I support them too??

Man Utd are not a football club at all, they are a corporate brand nowadays. Owned by wealthy foreigners who will fill the ground with tourists if they need to, to generate profits for themselves. Even in the last 10 years, MUFC has changed significantly - they used to have Mancs playing for them! But now? They are just slowly getting retired off..Giggs, Scholes and Neville are all nearing retirement, Giggs and Scholes rarely play 3 straight games these days.

Like all the big "clubs", they just buy success, because they can. When did Man Utd last bring through a player to become a regular? O'Shea ? Other than him, it is 10 years ago now!!

My kids support the Boro, and it makes me proud to say that, they may not be winning many games at the moment, but the fans still identify the club and the team as being a Teesside club. There are Boro lads in the team, Boro lads on the bench and Boro lads as part of the management team. Boro lads on the board, and best of all a Boro lad running the club.

Manchester United, a business run by Americans, managed by a Scot and an Iberian. And in two years time (if not sooner) - without a single Manc at the club.

Nani? Tevez? Ronaldo? Might be good for selling shirts, but I would rather have Downing, Cattermole, Wheater, Taylor, Davies or Johnson on my back. At least they would have something in common with me.

salfordjim Posted on 30/10 10:29
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"and the money made on rossi, Spector, Evans , Chadwick , timms, bakke, all unknowns ..but brought in revenue that offset the losses on thos (sic) two..in fact your club piad (sic) us handsomely for a player that cost us nothing ,,cheers


Brilliant! You made loads of money on that lot didn't you?"


yes we did ..rossi 7m, spector 2.5m, evans 2m, bakke 1.8m, notman, 1m,chadwick 2m, timms 1.4m and your own johnathan greening 2m ..all adds up to nearly 20m ...

Boromart Posted on 30/10 10:31
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

now how many of those kids did you poach from other academies without paying any compensation?

--- Post edited by Boromart on 30/10 10:31 ---

salfordjim Posted on 30/10 10:32
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"without a single Manc at the club"... I see so wes brown , danny simpson , bardsly , martin arent really there are they not?

BillBones Posted on 30/10 10:34
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Over a period of? That should pay Ronaldo's wages for a couple of years anyway.

salfordjim Posted on 30/10 10:38
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"now how many of those kids did you poach from other academies without paying any compensation"... about the same as other clubs have taken from United without paying us... we didnt invent the 90min rule , in fact we argued against Howard Kendall atht eh time saying it would damage english youngster coming through....but we were shouted down by clubs who had no interest in developing youth just wanted to buy it in ...if this current system was in place yrs ago we wouldnt have been able to coach ,,,beckham, sharpe, etc..

wnd who won the youth world championships last year..thats right United...not bad for a club that doesnt develop itsyouth and just buys success..

alot of youngster who didnt cut it under SAF went onto to haves succesful careers and benefited there clubs ..healy, saavage, platt etc...so the club must be doing something right

Boromart Posted on 30/10 10:38
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Brown is the only one that gets anywhere near the first team....and thats only through injuries to first team players.

I'll get you started on those poached players:- Greening (York City), Timm (OB), Rossi (Parma), Spector (Chicago Fire), I'll let you have chadwick as he comes from that well known suburb manchester --> Cambridge.

salfordjim Posted on 30/10 10:41
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"Over a period of? That should pay Ronaldo's wages for a couple of years anyway.


"whats that gotta do with it..we earn the most so we pay well...

another FACT is Uniteed are one of only 3 clubs in the PL that pay less than 50% of its revenue on its wages...chelsea pay over 200% more..

Boromart Posted on 30/10 10:42
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"about the same as other clubs have taken from United without paying us..." -- Please back this comment up with some evidence!

"who won the youth world championships last year..thats right United...not bad for a club that doesnt develop itsyouth and just buys success.." -- erm your academy has the biggest budget and is utterly ruthless in plucking kids from their home environment to go to your academy. That is why you win these competitions. We however won the FA youth cup by having a group of lads entirely from our locale, now THAT is an acheivement.

BillBones Posted on 30/10 10:43
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

My point was that in the grand scheme of things, the money you've made selling these aforementioned 'academy' players is a drop in the ocean at McSalford Glazer United.

salfordjim Posted on 30/10 10:43
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

whereas you players pawt and present all lived 100yds from the club and played for £100 pw did they..journiniho, ravenneli, boksic all local lads playing for the love of the club

Boromart Posted on 30/10 10:44
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"another FACT is Uniteed are one of only 3 clubs in the PL that pay less than 50% of its revenue on its wages...chelsea pay over 200% more.." -- well when you look at the monopoly on football income that manure have then they are bound to show up well in that stat. If manure can afford to spend so little income on wages, and yet still outspend 90% of the premier league by 10 to 1 then something is seriously wrong.

CheshireBoro Posted on 30/10 10:46
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Salford,

with repect, I have heard of Wes brown... but the others...? Wes Brown plays...but the others???

http://www.stretfordend.co.uk/seasons/season2008.html

show me where they are.. i must be missing those.

24 players have pulled on a shirt for Boro this season - 11 of those are from Teesside.

Boromart Posted on 30/10 10:48
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

salfordjim, you seem to miss the point. We may have had the odd superstar foreigner but the vast majority of our history the team has been infused with local lads with local pride. To this very day. At your place we had Andrew Taylor, David Wheater, Lee Cattermole, Stewart Downing and Jonathan Woodgate all started against you, all local. Thats half the team.

You had Wes Brown and thats it.

Even in the Rav/Juninho days we had Pollock, Liddle, Vickers all local, even Barmby was from just 40 miles down the road in Hull.

--- Post edited by Boromart on 30/10 10:49 ---

jam69 Posted on 30/10 10:49
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

we also fielded a full team of accadamy produced players in the premier lge,most if not all local lads.not bad for a town half the size of bolton

Boromart Posted on 30/10 10:53
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Fulham away May 06 -
Turnbull;
Davies,
Bates,
Wheater,
Taylor,
Morrison,
Cattermole (Capt.),
Kennedy (Cooper 85)
Johnson,
Graham (Craddock 81)
Christie (Walker 62)
Unused subs: Knight (gk);McMahon.

Other than Christie all were born within 35 miles of the Riverside stadium, many of them within 10 miles.

salfordjim Posted on 30/10 10:54
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

and when you had boksic , raveneeli, journinho, the brazillian fella, zenden, swarzer... we had

butt, neville x 2, giggs, scholes, all local lads

salfordjim Posted on 30/10 10:57
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"butt, neville x 2, giggs, scholes, all local lads"

all cost noting ...yet we still went on to win many league and cup titles..

yes we spent big..but we have the biggest stadium the bigeest fan base, all generating revenue to pay for them ...we dont have a Steve Gibson to put his hand in his pocket and pay for it all..the fans pay for the players..NOT the chairman..therefore their is an arguement to be made that clubs like boro are trying to buy success!!

Vincent75 Posted on 30/10 10:58
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Since when has Hull only been 40 miles away?

Boromart, do you live in a mobile home?

Byzantine Posted on 30/10 11:00
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

raveneeli, journinho,... swarzer

Who thefucking hell are these, you think twat?!

salfordjim Posted on 30/10 11:01
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

please insult me some more..it really shows you in good light and demonstrates your keen sense of debate

BillBones Posted on 30/10 11:04
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Salford United fans would never resort to mindless insults. Go on their messageboard if you don't believe me.

salfordjim Posted on 30/10 11:07
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

do you speak for all boro fans..I know I dont speak for all united fans..but if you want to generalise go ahead

CheshireBoro Posted on 30/10 11:08
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Ignore the insults.

But with repect, the money i pay to watch my club pays for the players i watch, not Steve Gibson. And my point is I would rather that money gets spent locally than globally. There is a lot more Kudos (Qudos?) attached to a success if it feels like it has some bearing on the locality.

Truly and genuinely, I would rather sit in 15th place and have a local team than sit in 10th with a load of journeymen foreigners at the club.

I was delighted when we won the Carling Cup, it was probably the best day of my life - my only regret that day was that it wasn't a Boro lad scoring the goals or lifting the cup.

Boromart Posted on 30/10 11:14
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"and when you had boksic , raveneeli, journinho, the brazillian fella, zenden, swarzer... we had

butt, neville x 2, giggs, scholes, all local lads" ----- and at the same time you had Fabien Barthez, Van Nistleroy, Kanchelskis, Poborski, Henning Berg, Blomqvist, Cruyff, Irwin, Keane, McCliar, Schmeichel, Stamm, Yorke. So whats your point, your not comparing like for like.

You seem to be selectively choosing which facts to display to suit your argument. That's not debate, that's just having an entrenched viewpoint and arrogantly sticking to it.

--- Post edited by Boromart on 30/10 11:20 ---

Boromart Posted on 30/10 11:17
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

ok vincent it's 57 miles from Boro to Hull if you want to be pedantic.

Hull certainy has a north-east/north-yorkshire feel to it. It has a lot more in common with Boro than say Dublin, Cork, Marseille, Leytonstone, Holland, Norway, Cardiff, Czech, Nottingham, Trinidad, London, Denmark, Newcastle or Ramsgate, has to Manchester.

Incidently those are the places of origin for all but about 4 members of that all conquering manure squad of the mid 90s. In fact the only TRUE locals from that team were Scholes and Butt. The other locals were from Oldham and Bury both with their own well established football teams.



--- Post edited by Boromart on 30/10 11:31 ---

Snoop_Smog Posted on 30/10 11:49
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"We dont have a Steve Gibson to put his hand in his pocket and pay for it all..the fans pay for the players..NOT the chairman..therefore their is an arguement to be made that clubs like boro are trying to buy success!!"

Salford Jim, you've made a few good points but implying that Steve Gibson is our "sugar daddy" and bemoaning that you have no such figure is ludicrous.

Firstly Gibson does not directly finance the club, he is merely a garantor for loans and finance, All expenditure is money made by the club. Steve Gibson is no Roman Abramovich, our transfer budget this summer is proof of this.

Secondly a great many posts have highlighted that much of your money does not come from gate receipts merchandice etc. but unfairly distributed wealth from the premier league and Sky. This is not as you claim money from your fans, but money given to you by an unfair system.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 30/10 11:52
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

'we dont have a Steve Gibson to put his hand in his pocket and pay for it all'

Neither do we, dick head.

stantheman Posted on 30/10 11:55
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

beautiful.

Hull is local to boro, and doesnt have a 'well established team', but Oldham and Bury arent local to Manchester.

Good to see you lot still not caring like....

Doctor_Mick Posted on 30/10 11:55
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

It is just a matter of time before the Glazers foreclose on the ba­stards and the whole thing comes crashing down. Then the true football teams, built from the blood and sweat of local lads will inherit the league again.

We are a local team for local people. Are you local?

Boromart Posted on 30/10 12:13
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

stantheman, I'm glad that you get it. Barmby was our equivelant of Neville. Someone from the same area-ish. So had something in common with the team, rather than someone from nowehere near and no link to the larger area. Neville was lancastrian but not from Manchester. Barmby was from Yorkshire but not from Boro.

"Secondly a great many posts have highlighted that much of your money does not come from gate receipts merchandice etc. but unfairly distributed wealth from the premier league and Sky." -- It's probably a good point now to point out how Sky unfairly 'groom' fans to be big 4 supporters. Sky exist to make money, nothing more nothing less. Now Sky do this through subscriptions and advertising (and foreign sell-on rights).

They are more likely to sell subscriptions to a football supporter if they show his team a lot. Likewise they are going to make more money on advertising if they can get more fans to watch games. Thus sky gain a mutual benefit from supporting the big clubs.

Let me show you the maths. If all clubs had the same number of fans, then we would all have 5% of the overall fan base. Any match wouuld attract 10% of fans (2 teams x 5%).

Now lets look at where sky are taking us with their big-4 centric model (this isn't necessarily the current status, but where we are headed, if this situation is not averted).

20% of fans = Manure
20% = Chelsea
20% Arse
20% Liverpoo
All other clubs get around 1.2%.

Now a Manure vs Arse fixture = 40% of fans = big advertising revenue. Even MAnure vs Wign = 21.2% of fans and big revenue.

Compared to an even fanbase (with 10% watching) the profits through advertising are much more lucrative for Sky if they can enforce the big-4 centric model.

So Sky create 4 big clubs, and make sure that 90% of games include at least 1 of these clubs and the result is bigger profits for Sky.

The way that sky presenters refuse to knock the big club, and blatently 'promote' the players these clubs is proof that the above strategy exists.

The number of fans at Manure is entirely related to Sky's influence, it isn't the natural order of the world. It has been blown out of all proportions by Sky. Sky have at various points owned Manure shares, and even tried to buy Manure at one point! Talk about conflict of interest.

I'll guarentee you these kind of figures have been discussed in the boardrooms of the Sky media empire. Probably in a lot more detail, and in a very cold and calculated manner.

--- Post edited by Boromart on 30/10 12:20 ---

Dingbatsofhemlington Posted on 30/10 12:20
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Boro are still bitter coz they missed out on Forlan

stantheman Posted on 30/10 12:29
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

The banks would foreclose on the Glazers. Not the Glazers foreclosing on the club. You financial whizzkid you.

Dingbatsofhemlington Posted on 30/10 12:30
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

FAO Boromart:

'Hull certainy has a north-east/north-yorkshire feel to it'

What exactly is a north-east feel? I lived in Hull for 3 yrs and rugby league was given more coverage in the local press than football. Correct me if i am wrong, but the north-east aint exactly a hot-bed of rugby league is it?

Plus, the locals do not speak with anything like a North-East accent, so not sure where you are coming from.

'The number of fans at Manure is entirely related to Sky's influence'

Man.Utd were consistently the best supported club in England before Sky was even heard of, despite going 26 years without winning the league.

When Boro were going out of business in 86, they were getting 3,000 at Ayresome - i know there was a lot of political wrangling going on at the club then, but where was the loyalty then?

Boro played Palace in 94 on Live T.V and attracted a crown of around 8,000. One year later, for the first game at the Riverside was 30,000 odd thousand - where had all these people come from?

Sleaford_Socialite Posted on 30/10 12:33
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Kent?

Otley_Boro Posted on 30/10 12:34
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Fans come and go. You are picking two extreams there. I remember Man Utd getting around 25K for a League One midweek match with Charlton in th 80s. There is no doubt Man Utd are the best supported team in England. But their fanbase has grown outside of Manchester and all over the world over the last 15 years thanks mainly to Sky promoting them.

Dingbatsofhemlington Posted on 30/10 12:36
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Actually it was 23k against Wimbledon in '89! But that was an exception, not the norm.

Otley_Boro Posted on 30/10 12:37
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Did you go Dingbats?

Dingbatsofhemlington Posted on 30/10 12:41
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

No, was only 14 at the time.

Otley_Boro Posted on 30/10 12:42
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

You born in Boro?

Dingbatsofhemlington Posted on 30/10 12:45
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

No

Otley_Boro Posted on 30/10 12:46
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Manchester?

Dingbatsofhemlington Posted on 30/10 12:55
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

No, how did I know you were going to ask that?

Otley_Boro Posted on 30/10 13:13
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Knew the answer before I even asked it.

Says it all really.

No time for plastic fans.

No I'm not from Otley.

TheSmogMonster Posted on 30/10 13:18
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Do you have any connection to Man U aside from being a fan?

If not... why do you support them?

littledick Posted on 30/10 13:20
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

If he's a Man U fan, can you make the questions a little easier for him, please

Boromart Posted on 30/10 13:20
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"Man.Utd were consistently the best supported club in England before Sky was even heard of, despite going 26 years without winning the league." -- very true, although you won many other trophies int hat spell and challanged repeatedly for the league. So to claim it was hard times is a bit OTT. My beef isn't that Manure have the most fans, it's the fact that Sky actively promote you to get you even more fans. As I have demonstrated financially it is far better for Sky to have 3 or 4 uber-clubs and bollox to everyone else. Sky are manipulating the face of English football for profit at the cost of 88 other league clubs.

I'll ignore your ill informed views about Boros support, as it is irrelevant, I and others are not so much concerned for our own club, but for the entire league structure. It would be folly to focus entirely on ourselves, we leave that to fans of the big 4 with their "we are doing fine, so english football is rosey" attitude.

Boromart Posted on 30/10 13:26
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Sleaford_Socialite, "Kent?" -- Pallister, born in Ramsgate, I could have equally put Norton, but either way he had fook all link with Manchester.

"Actually it was 23k against Wimbledon in '89! But that was an exception, not the norm. " -- our low crowds of the early 80s are an exception noot the norm. We are in fact (and I do mean FACT) the best supported town in the country, over the history of league football.
"Manchester"
"No, how did I know you were going to ask that? "
I'm sure he will dig up some uncle or something from Manchester as justification. They always do. It's like the Kevin Bacon game, everyone seems to be able to relate themselves to Manchester within 4 steps, just so that they can justify their affiliation......even if they were born and raised under the floodlights of the old St Mary's Stadium in Southampton, they will still find some tenuous link.

--- Post edited by Boromart on 30/10 13:29 ---

heaton_mersey_boro Posted on 30/10 13:31
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

The simple fact is that 99% of Man U fans will never, ever know what its like to support a football club. Through thick and thin, good times, bad times.

Must be an absolute piece of p_ss following a franchise...I mean FFS they don't even have "Football Club" on the badge.

Do actually know a fair few Man U fans who have followed the team through the 70's / 80's home and away.....and then when they were not lucky enough to be able to get a season ticket when it mattered they can't get to the games. Instead Rupert from Surrey politely sports a sh_t eating grin while quaffing Pims prior to the soccer match starting.

Sadly, a lot of Man U fans don't seem to care about this fact - as long as they are the biggest team in the galaxy, buy all of the best players, appear on Sky for at least 165 hours per week and are turning over as close to the billion pound mark as possible....everything is okay.

Meanwhile football as we knew it is dying on its arsé, swamped by a sea of corporate money men and pure greed.

gravy_boat Posted on 30/10 13:32
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Errr, its actually 90miles from Boro to Hull.....

Boromart Posted on 30/10 13:39
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

as the crow flies it is 57 from the outskirts of nunthorpe to the outskirts of Hull according to google earth. But focusing on triviality doesn't change the context of the whole thread.....Manure do not have much in the way of local links. they have had about 3 mancunians as first team regulars in 20 years, and about 10 lancastrian/greater manchestrians in the same time period.

We have had more locals than that in the last 2 years.


--- Post edited by Boromart on 30/10 13:42 ---

stantheman Posted on 30/10 13:45
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

'if i lie but write it on the internet, it becomes a fact'

(c) boromart

jam69 Posted on 30/10 13:54
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

still waiting to find out what dingbats manchester connection is?,how far back in that family tree is he going

Doctor_Mick Posted on 30/10 13:56
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

The other sad thing is the parlous state of English football. What do these clubs that have become a business first and foremost contribute to the English national side?

Boro are producing more potential England players than ManUre ever will.

People who love football, not ersatz success, care about the National side as well as their LOCAL club.

This is why I phu­ckng hate Glory Hunters with as much passion as I support my local team. Smug parasites.

Boromart Posted on 30/10 13:58
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

If I avoid addressing all of the factual and valid points addressed at me, they will in fact cease to exist

(C) stantheman

stantheman Posted on 30/10 14:00
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

addressed to me?

sorry, is all of this drivel meant to be serious?

i thought that billbones on the abu board was a one off...

Boromart Posted on 30/10 14:09
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

so what lies have I told?

Otley_Boro Posted on 30/10 15:13
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"still waiting to find out what dingbats manchester connection is?,how far back in that family tree is he going"

Taking his time, should be good.

Why didn't he do what most plastics do when ya can't hear their accent and Lie.

theboydom Posted on 30/10 15:25
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

just as an aside

boromart, you're doing a great job, keep it up

the champions league was created after the straw that broke the camels back. the tv companies that paid the most money wanted to guarantee a certain number of games on the telly for their teams. when napoli (actually maradona) won the scudetto in '87 the italian tv company that paid for their european cup rights was gutted when *shock horror* in a KNOCK OUT tournament, they got KNOCKED OUT by real madrid in the first round, well, that wasn't good enough. that began the move towards seeding the rich clubs, and that began the move towards the chumps league (which i would love the boro to get in, but it won't happen unless we play our best, injury free season since 1938 and the whole liverpool team drop dead in training)

as an aside, according to wikipedia only two teams have ever made it to the group stages from the qualifying rounds and only one has made it to the later knock out stage. so much for a level playing field there. and the one team was liverpool, who shouldn't have been in the qualifying round anyway and were put there at the expense of the greek cypriot champions iirc.

godtona Posted on 30/10 15:49
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Doctor Mick - trust someone who is so obviously middle class that he has to let everyone know he is a doctor, to display his newfound "knowledge" of the game of "footy"

Middlesbrough contribute more to England than MUFC?

Boromart Posted on 30/10 15:55
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

I think what he means is that we willingly supply our players to the FA for the good of the national sport and the honor of having one of our team represent our country.

Manure however begrudgingly release players for competitive games under a veiled threat of legal action if 'their' player is harmed, and refuse to release players for friendlies by throwing false sicknotes about. "I'm sorry Steve McClaren we will not be releasing Rio because he has to got a visit to the chemist that he can't miss, and Rooney has a broken finger nail so he won't be joining the england squad either. You can have Wes Brown but only if he plays the full 90 mins, he needs the match fitness as he has been on the bench the last 3 weeks.".

--- Post edited by Boromart on 30/10 15:56 ---

Otley_Boro Posted on 30/10 15:58
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Boro - also have more England players at all levels than Man Utd.

--- Post edited by Otley_Boro on 30/10 15:58 ---

onthemap Posted on 30/10 16:04
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Cantona recently said that in all his years at Utd, his one abiding memory was "when I kung Fu kicked that hooligan". What does that say about the experience of playing for your club?

stantheman Posted on 30/10 16:25
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

and another pearl..

'only two teams have ever made it to the group stages from the qualifying rounds'

gold. pure gold.

Dingbatsofhemlington Posted on 30/10 17:19
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

F.A.O Otley Boro - as if I am going to lie about being from Manchester.

By the way, were you one of the 3,000 there in '86?

Boromart - as if Hull is 57 miles from Boro, more like 97!

--- Post edited by Dingbatsofhemlington on 30/10 17:22 ---

theboydom Posted on 30/10 20:00
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

stantheman Posted on 30/10 16:25
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m
and another pearl..

'only two teams have ever made it to the group stages from the qualifying rounds'

gold. pure gold.

sorry, stan, should have been "through all three rounds of qualifying"

my point being that in 1988 the italian champions could get knocked out by the spanish champions in the first round. now that cannot happen until the end of the group stage when they've all made the tv companys and shareholders some money. the champs league and the prem have combined to create a self-perpetuating elite at the top of english football which is unhealthy. as the premier league "product" is getting ever more popular worldwide, fans of a lot of the also ran clubs who have no chance of getting in the trough along with manu, arsenal, liverpool and chelsea are voting with their feet.

i think that is a problem for football as a whole, never mind the huge hinterland of the "other 72"

you think it is great.

we will have to agree to differ

RedWurzel Posted on 31/10 1:41
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Couple of points

Surprised everyone let the Man U fans get in that giggs is local to Manchester isn't he from South Wales? I do agree Barmby was not local

MU fans is it healthy for the Premier League that before a ball is kicked everyone knows who the top 4 is going to be?

I heard alot of working class MU fans have been priced out as season tickets cost over £700 and some MU fans have decided to support FC United. They have my respect.

TheSmogMonster Posted on 31/10 2:17
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"Boromart - as if Hull is 57 miles from Boro, more like 97!"

I'd check that again if I were you... note that routefinders going to take you down the M1 and not the coastal road, its about 60 miles, thank you.

blumphy Posted on 31/10 2:24
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Ah Mr Fest you never answered me last night. Where in Salford are you and who do you work for?

jam69 Posted on 31/10 8:19
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

and still dingbat cant say why he follows man utd,lets not forget man utd dropped out of the fa cup for money,whilst man utd have some genuine local fans most would agree with the points and concerns deep down,just wont admit it.they must cringe when they hear all those southern,welsh and irish accents milling round the ot shop at 11am on a saturday

stantheman Posted on 31/10 9:15
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

'pulled out the fa cup for money'

gem after gem.....

Otley_Boro Posted on 31/10 9:21
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Dingbat - "By the way, were you one of the 3,000 there in '86?"

No I wasn't as I was only 14!!!!

"still waiting to find out what dingbats manchester connection is?" - come on were are still waiting?

Boromart Posted on 31/10 10:23
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"Surprised everyone let the Man U fans get in that giggs is local to Manchester isn't he from South Wales? I do agree Barmby was not local" -- The point being that Barmby was as local to us as say the Nevilles were to Manchester. Differant town same gerneral region.....and yes as the crow flies it's 57 miles from Nunthorpe to Hull, measured on google earth.

But this is only a minor point the main point, and I will gladly withdraw that if people want to focus the debate on the fact that Manure (and the other 'elite' clubs) have manipulated/bullied the premier league such that they can keep the lions share of money. The now G14 clubs have manipulated the european competitions such that they have created a barrier to entry for other teams, and have created a system that means they are almost guarenteed a huge payout every season by creating a group stage.

I would like to ask any Manure fan, in fact any fan fullstop to give me one good SPORTING reason why the group stages exist in what is essentially a knockout cup competition!

Surely it should either be a knockout cup which proves on a one off big match who is the best of the best in europe. Who can handle the pressures of those big winner-takes-all games OR it should be a european league including the top twenety teams, which proves conclusively who is the best in europe.

But by basterdising the competition to include both formats surely it only weakens it from a sporting ethos.



--- Post edited by Boromart on 31/10 10:35 ---

Sleaford_Socialite Posted on 31/10 10:37
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Boromart Posted on 30/10 13:26 Email this Message | Reply
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sleaford_Socialite, "Kent?" -- Pallister, born in Ramsgate, I could have equally put Norton, but either way he had fook all link with Manchester

I was answering the 'Where did the extra boro fans come from' bit.

Boromart Posted on 31/10 10:44
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

fairy snuff. I can confirm you are right Ashford International train station early on a Satda/Sunday morning is packed with saddos in Manure tops.

Otley_Boro Posted on 31/10 12:29
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

I was answering the 'Where did the extra boro fans come from' bit.

But you could apply that to any football club, even Man Utd.

"Actually it was 23k against Wimbledon in '89! " - A Man Utd crowd.

Now what would be interesting is if they published the number of Mancunians in OT.

salfordjim Posted on 31/10 12:59
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

The attendance for the game against wimbledon was 29,281

and the as for the season ticket / local attendances are concerned ..I quote Adam Brown
Manchester Institute for Popular Culture
Manchester Metropolitan University, 2002
This report details the results of a post-code analysis of the Season Ticket
databases of Manchester United and Manchester City. It forms one part of a
much broader research project on sport in Manchester, called Sport, the City
and Governance: Football, Its Fans and Social Exclusion. This research was
funded by a grant from the Economic and Social Research Council.

Our research, Sport, the City and Governance, had two principle areas of
investigation. The first was the relationship of the city to sport, and in
particular the new ways in which sport is being used as part of economic and
social regeneration. The second concerned the role of one sport, professional
football, in Manchester and especially the relationships between clubs, fans
and the city. This was undertaken through a one year study of one city,
Manchester (UK), using the two principal professional clubs, Manchester
United and Manchester City, as comparative case studies.

.1 Total Numbers of Season Ticket Holders (2001)
Club No. Season
Ticket Holders
Manchester City 26,481
Manchester United 47,667

5.2 Manchester Location:
A Manchester location was taken as being resident in the ‘M’ postal area.

Club Numbers Season
Ticket holders in ‘M’
postal area
Percentage Season
Ticket holders in ‘M’
postal area
Manchester City 10592 40%
Manchester United 18590 39%

This shows that numerically there are more Manchester United season ticket
holders living in the ‘M’ postal area. . As such, a randomly-selected Season Ticket holder in the


M postal area is more likely to be a Manchester United fan; whilst a randomly-
selected season ticket holder at Manchester City is more likely to live within

the ‘M’ postal area. Below we provide both a tabular and a graphic
representation of the distribution of Season Ticket holders for each club
across Manchester.

Season Ticket Distribution in ‘M’ Post-code Districts

Post

Otley_Boro Posted on 31/10 13:08
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Only having 39% of your season ticket base from Manchester is nothing to be prowd of. That would leave you with 29,640 in a crowd of 76,000 actually from Manchester!!!

salfordjim Posted on 31/10 13:11
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

thats not what it says..it says with an M postcode..this does not include for instance ST holders who live say 7 miles away in Bolton but have a BL postcode...

Otley_Boro Posted on 31/10 13:13
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

So that'll be someone not from Manchester then.

salfordjim Posted on 31/10 13:17
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

but part of Gt manchester..as is Oldham ..OL postcode..stockport SK , Alrincham WA, cheadle SK etc etc...

if you take that view , the there are NO clubs in the city of London , as Chelsea is in the city of westminster etc..

Otley_Boro Posted on 31/10 13:19
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

The debate is about plastic fans who don't support their local club.

salfordjim Posted on 31/10 13:21
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

and MUFC is in the borough of trafford ..gt manchester , not the city of manchester...so anyone who lives within GT manchetser is classed as local yes?

Otley_Boro Posted on 31/10 13:24
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Someone should be classed as local if OT is there nearest club.

So they got their name wrong then?

--- Post edited by Otley_Boro on 31/10 13:25 ---

Sleaford_Socialite Posted on 31/10 13:27
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Wasn't the point of the post to demonstrate how much further away the top 4 are financially, since the sky money came in? Not a defence of Man U's ST distribution.

--- Post edited by Sleaford_Socialite on 31/10 13:29 ---

jam69 Posted on 31/10 13:30
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

boro have the 2nd highest % of fans who live within 10 miles of the ground(bburn being the highest) and the highest average crowd in relation to population in the uk.

Otley_Boro Posted on 31/10 13:33
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

The thread has mutured.

You go some figures Jam?

salfordjim Posted on 31/10 13:34
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

you seem to forget that United fans and the board fought succesfully against Sky buying United in 1998..so you can hardly say we went cap in hand looking for their dollars..

United fans fought against the hostile take over of the club by the yanks ..and our fears have been proven right as ticket prices have risen from under £450 pannum to nealry £800 ...we didnt whore oursleves around the world looking for investment to compete and expand, as the scoucers and city did

Otley_Boro Posted on 31/10 13:37
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Too late after the club floated.

Boromart Posted on 31/10 13:37
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

exactly sleaford, rather than face up to what has happened to our national game, and accepting their fair share of responsibility, Manure fans would rather focus on an entirely differant subject.

On that ST subject, I would like to point out that Maidstones post code begins with M also. So jim thanks for providing the statistical proof that many Manure fans come from Kent

Boromart Posted on 31/10 13:39
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"you seem to forget that United fans and the board fought succesfully against Sky buying United in 1998..so you can hardly say we went cap in hand looking for their dollars.." -- yeah because your previous owners knew what a good thing they were on WHORING the very soul of our national game for profit. Don't kid yourself that they didn't want to sell for the dignity and good of the game, or in fact any other dignified reason, LOL.


--- Post edited by Boromart on 31/10 13:40 ---

uptheboro79 Posted on 31/10 13:41
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

I agree with jam. I'm proud of the fact that we are the best supported team in the premiership per head of population. The law of average suggests that we will never be able to attract as many fans as a club based in a major city. I still can't understand why the media slag us off for our attendances. It a shame more clubs are'nt as well supported as ours.
In terms of the original argument about the the difference in spending between the 2 clubs there isnt an argument. Man U have consistantly outspent us every year for decades.

ccole Posted on 31/10 13:46
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

I have to say that I thought it was rather funny when Man U fans had banner saying “United not for sale”. Demonstrations in Salford.

PLC listed company? with shares? You could buy them from any high street! You couldn’t make it up.

A bit like the government saying they are going to tax us for rain falling from the sky.

salfordjim Posted on 31/10 13:46
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

the psot code for maidstone is ME...and as for united fans and the PLC float..back when the float was happening the uniteds did protest icluding demostrations at OT and Martin Edwards home..the reality of it was the float raised less than £11m ..some of it it convert the new roof of the stretford end and the rest tho the edwards family .. hardly a bucket ful to spend of players.. asI said earlier ..the succes on the pitch has been direclty paid for by the fans..not a beneficiay

mickbrown Posted on 31/10 13:49
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

jam69 - "the highest average crowd in relation to population in the uk."

No you haven't.

salfordjim Posted on 31/10 13:51
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"have to say that I thought it was rather funny when Man U fans had banner saying “United not for sale”. Demonstrations in Salford.

the fans protested about the yanks levering our loyalty to pay for them buying the club and the assests , even though we paid for them over the decades..they may get thier temporary hands on them , but the soul and life of the club will allways be with the fans ..we will be here long after the yanks and the bankers...as it says , these are NOT FOR SALE..











"PLC listed company? with shares? You could buy them from any high street! You couldn’t make it up"...

you did make it up ..because you coouldnt buy them on any high street , they were listed of Ofex not the LSE ..so the shares were only aavailable to limited investors..

heaton_mersey_boro Posted on 31/10 13:52
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"the succes on the pitch has been direclty paid for by the fans..not a beneficiay"

salfordjim - that is just silly. You saying the gate receipts alone bought £60m quids' worth of players last summer?

Nike, AIG, Audi, McDonalds etc may beg to differ on that one.

And as for your share of the Sky money...........

salfordjim Posted on 31/10 13:58
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

" You saying the gate receipts alone bought £60m quids' worth of players last summer?

we didnt buy £60 m worht of players we spent money on players ( most on the tick) and then we recouped over 40m on players ...the glazers are refinancing the debt using ticket securitaisation for the next 10yrs ..which is directly coming form the fans pockets

Nike, AIG, Audi, McDonalds etc may beg to differ on that one...these sums add up to approx 36M per annum..the debt repayments to the banks are over £66 per annum ..

And as for your share of the Sky money..united negiotated the sky contract to be a collective one , rather than make more money and follow the barc/real madrid and Itlaian teams to do individual tv deals..which would have seen United earn more and the rest of the PL earn less.

Boromart Posted on 31/10 14:02
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

A further indication how the massive spending power for the big 4 caused by the prem league and chumps league.

In the last 10 seasons:-
- only 6 differant teams have finished top 4
- 2 of those teams have finished top 4 EVERY season
- Chelsea and liverpoo have finished top 4 on 7 occasions
- Newcastles place was rested away by Chelsea, Leeds had to overspend in an attempt to compete with the financial might of the big 4 and ultimately went bankrupt because of it, Everton got lucky once and couldn't repeat.
- 85% of the top 4 finishes were the same big 4 sides.

In the 10 seasons BEFORE the prem existed:-
- FIFTEEN differant teams finished top 4
- 1 of those teams finished top 4 every season, Liverpool, however go back one more season and they did not finish top 4.

Now tell me that the financial implications of the prem league brokered by the big clubs; and the financial implications of the chumps league, brokered by the big clubs, have not had a detrimental effect on football. Absolutely no competitiveness anymore.

ccole Posted on 31/10 14:03
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Choose Man U?

Link: Is this why you did?

mickbrown Posted on 31/10 14:06
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Boromart - you can also argue that in the previous 10 years British clubs didn't compete on a European level. Now we do.

uptheboro79 Posted on 31/10 14:06
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"And as for your share of the Sky money..united negiotated the sky contract to be a collective one, rather than make more money"
Very charitable of you.....
except you didnt negotiate anything, you where told that this is was how the money was to be spread across the clubs.

Boromart Posted on 31/10 14:07
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"but the soul and life of the club will allways be with the fans" -- hillarious, FC United fans will beg to differ!

"because you coouldnt buy them on any high street , they were listed of Ofex not the LSE ..so the shares were only aavailable to limited investors." -- limited investors my ass, my network guy had some, anyone that wanted them could get them.

salfordjim Posted on 31/10 14:07
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

its called capitlaism ..the biggest clubs who have the most fans , and sell more shirts , more tv subscriptions, and more merchandise ..earn the most and can afford the best pplayers..a dn develop the youth..United have done better than most ..because we have the most fans , paying to come to the biggest stadium , and a worldwide appeal to buy the merchandise and tv subscriptions...

so if boro want to compete...play good football, get more fans through the door , grow and compete..rather than biatch and moan like some blast from the USSR..

Boromart Posted on 31/10 14:11
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"And as for your share of the Sky money..united negiotated the sky contract to be a collective one" -- collective but one sided massively in there favour. United could NOT have gone down the route of a Barca/Real situation. If they did they would have been booted out of the football league. The threat of a euro league and of individual TV rights was bandied around for two years as a brokering tool so that manure could get a deal that was massively in their favour while still remaining part of hte English league system. A middle ground was found from the fair and equitable situation most clubs wanted and the outlandish desires of manure. the middle ground was and has proven to be still heavily stacked in manures favour.

salfordjim Posted on 31/10 14:12
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"hillarious, FC United fans will beg to differ"... and do you not think that they still support the team ..just not the owners , they dont want to put money in their pockets rather than into the club...

to a man they still support "Big United"..but prefer to watch the game as it used to be..pint/standing up singing/ and all for £7 ...a worthy postion to take ..I cant afford over £1000 pa either

Boromart Posted on 31/10 14:13
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

between 81 and 91 half of those seasons english clubs did compete in europe.....and you can look at 71 to 81 and see exactly the same kind of pattern.

--- Post edited by Boromart on 31/10 14:15 ---

Boromart Posted on 31/10 14:14
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"... and do you not think that they still support the team ..just not the owners , they dont want to put money in their pockets rather than into the club...

to a man they still support "Big United"


-- I don't think you are qualified to talk for them 'to a man'.

--- Post edited by Boromart on 31/10 14:15 ---

salfordjim Posted on 31/10 14:17
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

why not..the majority have used their ST money to support FCUM ..but still remain United fans..just not the glazers..does your support stop if gibson sold out to say osama bin laden

uptheboro79 Posted on 31/10 14:18
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Very good youtube clip ccole.
Its just a shame it wasn't made a few years later when they could of mentioned Ferdinand avoiding the drugs test and United snubbing out of the F.A. cup.

Choose to snub the FA cup and then pretend to be a club full of passion, honour and history!

ccole Posted on 31/10 14:19
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Mick, your point is valid, however would you rather see the like of Bolton and Boro have a realistic chance of finishing top 2 or 3, or seeing the same two or three team average a win in Europe every 3 years between them?

Wouldn’t it be nice to know that someone can still do a Forest (also won it two times Jim) or a Wimbledon?

Even the League cup seems beyond anyone outside the top four. Liverpool will go for that now after the poor showing in the Champions league

uptheboro79 Posted on 31/10 14:21
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"does your support stop if gibson sold out to say osama bin laden"
That would all depend on if you want to spend the rest of your days in Guantanamo Bay.

uptheboro79 Posted on 31/10 14:27
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

The whole point is salford is that no-one benefits from a non competitive game, even the winners. If you took it a step further from where it is now, would you be happy if your club won the English league every season at a canter for the next 50 years?

Boromart Posted on 31/10 14:28
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"why not.." -- because you are not them and its arrogant to assume you can speak on their behalf. Let them speak for themselves, and you stick to speaking for you. Although I did notice that you have changed your stance from "to a man" to "majority"

--- Post edited by Boromart on 31/10 14:29 ---

Boromart Posted on 31/10 14:32
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"The whole point is salford is that no-one benefits from a non competitive game, even the winners" -- exactly mate. Which is why I said that Manures achievements in the 90s winning various titles was sullied because it was a by product of manufacturing an uncompetitive financial arena.

IMHO the acheivements of Liverpoo in the 70s and 80s far outweighed Manures because they did it on a far more competitive financial arena.

There was no such thing as a global football market, it was rare for fans to travel from 200 miles to watch 'their' team play a home game, marketing and branding was in it's infancy in football, european cups were competed for glory not monetary gain. Those acheivements far, far outweighed what Manure have done since.

--- Post edited by Boromart on 31/10 14:34 ---

salfordjim Posted on 31/10 14:33
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"Wouldn’t it be nice to know that someone can still do a Forest (also won it two times Jim...yes the same amount of times as Barc and twice as many as Juve..

because you are not them and its arrogant to assume you can speak on their behalf... were as you are not in the least bit arrogant by generalising about all united fans are you?
"

Boromart Posted on 31/10 14:54
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"Forest (also won it two times Jim...yes the same amount of times as Barc and twice as many as Juve.." -- so you agree that prior to the introduction of the prem and champions league it was possible for a small/mid size club to rise to the top through great management, strong youth policies and coaching, and a couple of inspired signings?

"because you are not them and its arrogant to assume you can speak on their behalf... were as you are not in the least bit arrogant by generalising about all united fans are you?" -- please back this up jim, at what point have I slurred all manure fans? The fact is I haven't, I slagged your club, and it's effects on our national sport. I'm entirely sure why you have claimed this, maybe because you can't address the points I have made, because you know them to be true? First you tried to pass off any negative opinion as 'ABU' or 'lovejoyesque'. Some people with a differing opinion to you has been labelled - ‘sky generation’. Now I'm accused of generalising about your fans!

Why don't you stick to the points under debate?

While we are at it, you never answered this question regarding poaching of youth players, did you -- "about the same as other clubs have taken from United without paying us..." -- Please back this comment up with some evidence!

Boromart Posted on 31/10 14:54
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

doubler!

--- Post edited by Boromart on 31/10 14:55 ---

uptheboro79 Posted on 31/10 15:34
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

I dont think salfords coming back which makes me think that he's seen sense.
Shame though, he seemed alright. One of a very few genuine Man Utd fans.

salfordjim Posted on 31/10 15:37
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

the truth is ... I am still at work therefore apart from lunch tryinng to write long posts is ...taxing .. and I am elsewhere

Boromart Posted on 31/10 15:46
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

I'm sure he could have responded to my two questions in about the same time that last response took

jam69 Posted on 31/10 16:14
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

so who has an average gate that is a bigger % of the population than boro mick?

uptheboro79 Posted on 31/10 16:28
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

No-one Jam.
I can't remember the exact figures but I remember seeing a table of the Premier League clubs a while ago. With the average gate of each club, the population of the town/city and the % figure. It also took into account the towns/cities that had more than one club.
We came out on top by a long distance and Blackburn came second.
I've never seen a chart for the % of supporters that live within the town/city but we must be about top of that as well.

Boromart Posted on 31/10 16:29
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

I'm sure he claimed it was one of the north-west teams the other day. I think it was Burnley? Although I stand to be corrected.

although a quick bit of googling shows:-

Burnley:
population: 89,542
Average league attendance: 11,610
% of population : 12.97%

Boro:
population: 134,855
Average league attendance: 27,045
% of population : 20.06%

We slaughter them on that stat, although I agree that Stockton is entirely Boro supporters. But if people are prepared to slaughter Boro due to where it's local authority bounderies lay (Channel 4, Kirsty Allsopp/Phil Slaphead!), then it would be entirely unfair to move those boundaries to include Stockton to fabricate another anti-Boro statistic.

Blackburn is difficult to show as the national statistics for Blackburn are "Blackburn and Darwen", which is marginally bigger than Boro, Blackburns gates are about 20% less than Boro's.

--- Post edited by Boromart on 31/10 16:34 ---

Azedarac Posted on 31/10 16:32
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

If everyone thinks it's wrong that the top 4 get a disproportionate income and it perpetuates a closed shop, will you all be asking Mr Gibson to give back the inflated Premiership income that Middlesbrough have received that would have gone to the rest of the football league? Everything that's been described as wrong with the setup that keeps the top 4 rich also applies to the way the Premiership teams get more revenue than the rest of the league. With the added kicker that the price of not getting into the elite isn't just an inablility to compete for the best players, it's possible liquidation and extinction.

uptheboro79 Posted on 31/10 16:37
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

I agree Azedarac. The financial gap between the championship should be closer than it is. This is another problem in modern football. It is difficult for clubs promoted from the championship to compete in the premiership and even worse is that teams that are relegated from the premiership to the championship always face financial uncertainty and possible collapse.

Boromart Posted on 31/10 16:40
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Azederac, I and I'm sure many other fans would be happy to relenquish our financial 'prosperity' afforded by the prem league in return for having an even playing field not only within the top flight, but also across the whole pyramid system. No one has asked Manure to give money back, Whats gone is gone regarding money. Looking forward, yeah drop our prem league payments for a crack at putting a good TEAM together to challange for the title.....I would jump at that chance.

It has been a dark, murky and dirty era in football. Swimming with backhanders, dodgy agents, greedy footballer, lack of morals, cheating diving players. I think many of us would like a return to competitiveness and sporting ethos across the whole pyramid system.



--- Post edited by Boromart on 31/10 16:41 ---

Azedarac Posted on 31/10 16:54
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

My point was that no-one on here was bemoaning the injustice that means Middlesbrough can routinely compete for 7-figure signings while clubs a division down have to mortgage themselves to the hilt to even have a chance of reaching the Premiership, but still expect Man Utd fans to empathise with teams below THEM in the pecking order.

When Derby had a few seasons in the Premiership I had a really blikered attitude, it's not until we realised we couldn't expect to be in the Premiership as a matter of course that I appreciated the difference. Championship clubs that don't have any chance of sustained Premiership membership look on all Premiership teams pretty much the way you look at Man Utd. The only ones who defend the situation are the ones who have pretentions of getting their nose in the trough.

The whole thread is like Chris Moyles complaining about Jonathan Ross earning too much - meanwhile the tea lady is unsure if she'll ahve a job next month or have the house repossessed.

uptheboro79 Posted on 31/10 16:59
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

As was said by myself and boromart, I think most boro fans agree that there is too much of a financial deficit between the premiership and the championship despite our clubs position!

Dingbatsofhemlington Posted on 31/10 20:26
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Otley Boro - were you there in '86 or are you a post '95 Boro fan?

RedWurzel Posted on 31/10 20:51
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Interesting point from Salford Jim on capitalism and sport.

The USA is a capitalist society but the NFL is run on non-capitalist grounds. The Americans quickly realised a league dominated by a few big clubs every year is not as commercially viable or exciting as a competitive league. NFL clubs are not more powerful that their league.

The problem we have in England is that a few teams have more power than the whole of the Premier League so those few teams can generally set their own agenda. Its a bit like saying Tesco is more powerful than the UK Government.

The 2001 season ticket figures for MU will be different now with less local fans and more outsiders. I know MU fans from Hereford have commented how he has changed with the price rises with many more overseas fans at OT this season.

You are doing a decent job Salford Jim trying the defend your club and fans, but the world is changing. Some clubs have sold their soul and I think MUFC is one. They will always do well becuase of their commercial revenue streams, but its not going to be sport for much longer.

Boromart Posted on 31/10 22:08
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Azderac as I said I'm in complete agreement with you regarding the disparagy between Championship and prem.

Your suggestion that Boro give their TV earnings to championship clubs may afford the Boro board a high moral ground but would see us relegated from the prem, our place taken by another championship side who would not give the money away.....basically you are suggesting we slit our own throats as a demonstration that would fall opn deaf ears. I don't see how that would help the situation one bit.

Whats done is done regards TV money. How do we improve the game? We change the way TV money is propogated, something we both seem to agree on.

horse_head Posted on 1/11 7:47
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Dingbats, we had 30,000 against Port Vale at Hartlepool in 86, they just fudged the gate receipts. FACT.

littledick Posted on 1/11 8:12
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

horse_head

dildobats is on his way to school now

Azedarac Posted on 1/11 9:04
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Boromart

I'm not seriously suggesting Steve Gibson starts unilaterally writing cheques to random clubs.

What rankled was 200 posts of how nasty Man Utd were to the other poor Premiership clubs with scarcely a nod to the wider game. If you happened on a thread where Man Utd and Chelsea were debating the unfairness of who gets how much Chumps League money, wouldn't you put your hand up and say "hold on, there's a wider football community that's struggling becuase you've got things carved up"?

salfordjim Posted on 1/11 9:15
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

like many people in his postion he is stuck between a rock and hard place ... he looks upto to where he wants to be ..yet derides and disparages them because he cannot attain it..his view of them below is that of disdain..

you are quite right to question his one sided myopic view...I pariculary like this view of his..

"Your suggestion that Boro ( subsititute that for UNITED) give their TV earnings to chapionship ( sub that with lower placed PL teams) clubs may afford the Boro board a high moral ground but would see us relegated from (sub that with not compete for ) the prem, our place taken by another championship (sub that with PL) side who would not give the money away.....basically you are suggesting we slit our own throats as a demonstration that would fall opn deaf ears. I don't see how that would help the situation one bit



yet your whole ire is based on your desire that United havent done this .. and its uniteds fault we havent..yet you wouldnt contemplate it yourselves..

That ladies and gentlemen...is HYPOCRISY

littledick Posted on 1/11 11:58
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

This Saturday, it's the so called (by SKY ) big-one:

Arsenal v United

Does anyone know the transfer fees paid by Arsenal for their likely starting X1 this Saturday ?

I bet it's nearer our £20m than Scums £120m

Again, embarrassing if United don't win

boro74 Posted on 1/11 12:03
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

A better measure of the strength of a team is the wage bill, and not how much the players cost. I bet it if you did a league table of how much each club pays in wages, it would be almost identical to the real table.

Dingbatsofhemlington Posted on 1/11 12:06
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

'Does anyone know the transfer fees paid by Arsenal for their likely starting X1 this Saturday ?

I bet it's nearer our £20m than Scums £120m '

Stick to pretending that you are some sort of rival to Newcastle/Sunderland, even though in reality they don't really care about you.

littledick Posted on 1/11 12:11
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Oi dildobats, you never did answer that question about yourself, did you ?

Think it was:

Why you're from Hemlington, yet 'support' MUFC

--- Post edited by littledick on 1/11 12:12 ---

Snoop_Smog Posted on 1/11 12:49
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Jim, the difference between the two arguments is that on several posts on this thread boro posters have acknowleged the disparity and accepted that this contributes to our premiership status.

I have never heard a ManU supporter acknowlege that a major contributing factor to their position within football and the premier league is a system biased towards the top 4.

In addition to this you will rarely see a boro supporter sitting from a position of smugness and looking down on those in a position less fortunate than us (apart from the mackems and geordies that is) like a great number of Manu fans do, although to your credit you don't appear to be doing this too much so I'll leave you out of that generalisation.

Otley_Boro Posted on 1/11 12:56
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Dingbats - I started going regular in 87 when I was 15. Parents wouldn't let me go unsupervised until then. 80's football was a lot more scary than todays.

I have had a season ticket since 89 and you?

Dingbats "Stick to pretending that you are some sort of rival to Newcastle/Sunderland, even though in reality they don't really care about you." - as a plastic footabll supporter how could you possible know the meaning of the word a "footballing rival".

To say Newcastle and Sunderland don't consider Boro as a Derby would be true. To say the don't care about us is incorrect, looking at the pure hatred/violence/abuse in their faces over the years during games against Boro over the years proves they dislike us a little.

"still waiting to find out what dingbats manchester connection is?" - come on were are still waiting? and still...

--- Post edited by Otley_Boro on 1/11 12:57 ---

jam69 Posted on 1/11 14:05
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

its one thing talking to jim who comes from manchester area but dungbat who is from teesside,doesnt go to games and has no connection to man utd other than mummy gets the new kit for xmas is another thing alltogether

Frank_Frontbottom Posted on 1/11 14:40
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Do you believe every cliche that you hear on you're on sky sports? Oh yes Arsenal pay nothing for players. A fee of up to €15M for Hleb and a fee of up to €12M for Jersey Joe Walcott will back that 'fact' up. €9M for Eduardo, €7M for Adebayor, €7M for Rosicky.

Dingbatsofhemlington Posted on 1/11 18:09
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Otley Boro - I knew that you wouldn't have been there in '86. Hmmm '87 eh - wasn't that the time that Boro started doing well again - I'm sure that's just pure coincidence. Did the violence suddenly stop between 86-87 so it was now ok to go?

Jam 69 - I not from Teesside actually, moved here in the mid 80's when there were true Boro fans were few and far between. Go to games every now and then and many's the time i have sat in the Boro end watching United.

CHEESE_PIES Posted on 1/11 19:02
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Dingbatsofhemlington

'Not from Teesside actually'...........deffo not from within the sound of OT either then, or you would have made a point of saying so

Why MUFC then ??

Did you sit on your hands in the Riverside then ??

Would you like us to tell you how to get to Old Trafford ??

As a matter of interest, have you ever heard of Ralph Milne, Arnie Sidebottom, Tom Paterson, Mark Higgins.......

Dingbatsofhemlington Posted on 1/11 19:26
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Saw the great Ralphie play against Boro in Jan '89, when Divvy Dav scored his first goal for Boro at the Holgate end. Where you there, Cheese Pies?

Remember Higgins too - got a career ending injury whilst at Everton, but Big Ron bought him to Utd in 86 during the ill-fated title chase of the same season. Total donkey who went to Bury i think.

Too young to remember Sidebottom

It was Steve, not Tom Paterson. Please do you research before posting.

And no i don't need a map to go to Old Trafford.

Next.

CHEESE_PIES Posted on 1/11 19:35
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

yep, I was there, North Stand season ticket holder

Very noticable your 'home team' hasn't been divulged yet

jam69 Posted on 1/11 20:02
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

like i said dungbats has no connection to man utd other than what mummy buys him for xmas,the real man utd fans cant stand the dungbats of this world

RedWurzel Posted on 1/11 20:26
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

If a proposal went out that the TV money be shared out equally amongst all 92 clubs I know who would take their ball away and do their own deal.

It would mean Boro would get less, but I would accept it over a phased period to create more competitive, unpredictable and exciting leagues and cups. How many MU fans would?

salfordjim Posted on 2/11 8:41
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

"If a proposal went out that the TV money be shared out equally amongst all 92 clubs I know who would



well lets deal with the reality rather than your perception...in 1998 when SKY were looking to buy United the fans and directors fought against the deal ( succesfully) argueing that it would diminish the collective agreement for the PL..if it was the clubs intenetion to "take their ball away and do their own deal"..then it could and would have happened then...but thats not the only case..when the current deal was being negoiated United were the only one of the top 6 clubs who dismissed immedailty the idea of seperate TV agreement even if it was more lucarative ( similar to the spanish and itlain TV deals)..the other 5 clubs fell into line with united desire to retain the collective TV deal..



It would mean Boro would get less, but I would accept it over a phased period to create more competitive, unpredictable and exciting leagues and cups. How many MU fans would?...


Well for the majority of clubs from little burton albion in the cup to boro in the PL..when United some to town its the biggest payday in terms of tickets sold and TV revenue..so if you want less then dont be a hypocrite and share your bigger money with the lower league clubs..as United seem to be generating cash for other clusb when they appear...what do boro contribute ?


if you took off your ABU glasses and understood the way football is run , widen your understanding a little then you will see that the PL needs united just as much as United need the PL..there wouldnt be as much money , crowds, skill or deisre for the PL if United went elsewhere..there isnt much fun for the public watching fulham v reading ..wereas a lot of people who dnt support United will still watch them on TV

ElvisRamone Posted on 2/11 8:55
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Wikipedia is awonderful thing when you're trying to prove facts - NOT.

blumphy Posted on 2/11 11:54
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

jeez!

Dingbatsofhemlington Posted on 2/11 12:10
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Jam 69 'like i said dungbats has no connection to man utd other than what mummy buys him for xmas,the real man utd fans cant stand the dungbats of this world'

That's funny, all the United Fans that I've met have never had a problem with me supporting United, even most Boro fans -the only people who seem have a problems tend to be bitter, jealous types. Perhaps you fit into this category?

Boroz Posted on 2/11 12:34
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

I think Man U have played brilliant exciting football over the last few seasons. They have transfer money, tradition, population size and marketing that attracts great players. In the new world of big business clubs they have done well and have a great product. The momentum will always attract a big support base from their genuine local area and the good old tradition prize wannkers from everywhere else.

The next natural evolution is for them to take this luxury product off to a Europeam Super League (World Series?) with the other major corporates from each country (No, sit down Newcastle...) Let English football get back to the competitive, challenging and more interesting sport it once was with a fairer league. Yes bring back Wolves, Forest, QPR, Burnley! Give Derby, Wigan, Reading a chance!

I wish you well in Europe - now just phook off.

salfordjim Posted on 2/11 12:39
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

United have no desire to join a super league ..in fact they were the only one of englnads top 3 who dismissed it out of hand..liverpool and aresnal ( both G14 memebers) were willing to enter into a dialogue ...

do you really want to be watching the equivilant of the scottish seonde division..cowdenbeath v fofar...

no superstars, kick and rush football, no investment in good players, no crowds.....

be careful what you wish for luddite

Boroz Posted on 2/11 12:55
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Yes I would. It's on the basis that in my experience a relegation fight, challenging for promotion or seeing new clubs make it is infinitely more gripping than hanging around mid table thinking we are doing great cause we got to touch the glass ceiling. I want to watch games when our points really matter - it's called drama and emotion.

If I want to watch clever sidesteps, amazing free kicks or the best latin dives in the business then I can tune into the Super League anytime on TV. Then again I can tune into Aussie Rules, Super Moto, Gold to appreciate their skills too.

salfordjim Posted on 2/11 13:01
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

is that why the scots want to join the english league?..they are fed up with watching one team lump it up and then the other lump it back....and rememebr if ther is no spectacle then the TV money would dwindle and the likes of downing /woodgate/ etc would all leave for foriegn leagues to earn the moeny elaswhere..were would the clubs get the moeny to invest in the acedamys.. which would have a deterimental effect of the national team and grassroots...

be careful that you are not letting your blind hatred and jealousy of the bigger teams get in the way of seeing what armegedon you are wishing for ..

the likes of wigan/reading/boro etc..would all probably go bust or shrivel without the sky income and like it or not the big teams are the ones who draw the subscriptions, and the crowds.

jam69 Posted on 2/11 13:31
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

funny that dungbat because i used to work in manchester and the "real mufc" fans i used to drink with would moan like fuk when they saw coaches from all parts of the country and further,maybe the mufc you mix with have the same connections to the club as you, none!
still waiting for your reason for,god i nearly said surporting there,your reason for your armchair surport?

Boroz Posted on 2/11 13:42
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

I have no hatred or jealousy of the bigger clubs - I said that I think Man U have played brilliant football in the last few seasons. It just is irrelevant to me. I think the game has moved on, the gap between the big and small has widened to such an extent that the Premier League is becoming pointless for half the clubs in it. The obvious restructure is to create a European League and get back a meaningful, competitive league for the rest.

It is arrogant to think that English football would collapse if Man U left the League.

salfordjim Posted on 2/11 13:52
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

that not what i said ... I said if the big CLUBS..i.e us , aresenl, chelsea, liverpool, and a couple more ..did one and joined the likes of Madrid , inter etc..then do you honestly think that sky would have any interest in paying £1.1billion over 3 yrs to screen the likes of wigan v portsmouth..of course not ..and with the money gone the players would go , the quality would go , the academys would go , and th national team would be filled with the likes of carlton palmer types...
still as long as you can sit smuggly in your cave , wringing your hands with schnaldefraude..

Croozey Posted on 2/11 14:23
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

What we have now is not who's the best team, but who is the richest team. Back in the 70's and early 80's football was a far more entertaining sport. it was more open. A player wouldnt earn that much more at Man Utd than at Ipswich. Maybe a couple of hundred a week difference, but it wasnt life-changing. It was the clubs that gained- thru the transfer fee if a player moved. If the big clubs in England want to break away I'd say sod-off then. Its becoming a dirty business, and I for one have stopped watching premier league football(i moved from boro 7 years ago). But i rarely watch it on tv either. I've started watching Eastbourne. conf south. where i now live. breath of fresh air. honest, no rolling about, nice football. stand on the terrace. and we arent paying extortionate amounts to fund players wages. the gates are up almost 100% in the non league over the last 2 seasons. the people are turning away from the nasty world of the money orientated big boys to get their footy fix. Chelsea, arsenal, liverpool and Man Utd are filling their grounds with one-off tourists, like an alternative instead of a west end show. they're not supporters.

salfordjim Posted on 2/11 14:30
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

I agree with your sentiments completely... I have been watching united live since 1975....but when my own kids came along I started to tail of in 2000... now i simply cant afford to go....and I have taken my lad to watch FCum becuse it is the way I rememebr...we may get to see United 4 -5times a season...but I could nt afford to go like I did through the 80,s 90's...

ccole Posted on 2/11 14:31
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Nice to see the Salford boys on our board, getting all excited about a 200+ thread.

So much so that they keep posting of their own board about it. I think our fellow Northerners just find it nice to talk to some genuine football fans of a real “home town team” rather than the false, empty souls from around the country who turn on a Manc accent once a fortnight.

salfordjim Posted on 2/11 14:36
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

United ruined everything by inventing Sky, so that only 4 teams have won it since. In the good old days of the 80's, 4 different teams won it.

ccole Posted on 2/11 14:43
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

That's twice you have posted that today Jimbo. Did you cut and paste or type it from memory?

I think you will get more replys this time though.

I am half tempted to post about Sky inventing Man U again, but....



--- Post edited by ccole on 2/11 14:44 ---

blumphy Posted on 2/11 17:57
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

it needs repeating sometimes to (ocks like you

Boroz Posted on 2/11 19:05
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

Jim we're gonna have to disagree on this - your arguements for not creating a European league are making no sense to me.

I'll come out of my cave to say that by creating a competitive and vibrant Englaish league without the handful of super clubs I think there is a strong chance you would recapture some of the vibrancy and raw passion of the 70's you speak so fondly about. All clubs would have the genuine opportunity of winning trophies and being meaningful again. I think a whole new generation could be attracted back and a whole new generation of English players could have an opportunity to win things. No there wouldn't be the same amount of money involved but I think that's a good thing.

I think it is wrong to assume all TV would dry up for this English league as there are plenty of people like me who want to see variety and are not interested in the uber football, corporate marketing or the super celebrities in golden boots - I admire the skills of Ronaldo and Beckham but they make me feel sick to look at them. Yes crowds would fall but then grow agan as legions start coming back to the game they have been alienated from in recent years and prices become more reasonable. You are assuming that English football would collapse without a few super clubs and that is arrogant and misguided. Sure it would be different but taht's what I think is positive. The Man U's would benefit as they get to be even bigger and more international and sell more shirts to more countries. The remaining English clubs would benefit as we can come out of our caves and not just be punching bags for foreign businessmen and getting slagged off by people like you .

You seem to be arguing on one hand that the small clubs are crap and meaningless and only survive because of TV money generated by a few superclubs. You don't want to change anything to fix this. Therefore you are arguing:
- Keep it how it is and watch the gap keep growing disenfranchising yet more grass roots supporters (Man U will have 3 first teams and clubs like Boro will struggle for 1)
- Keep the super stadiums growing and prices rising
- Get the Luddites out of their caves and into Man U or Chelsea shirts ASAP

The more you write the more I am convinced the Euro League is the way to go

Boromart Posted on 3/11 11:13
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

salfordjim , I've been away a couple of daysm but can now answer your silly accusation.


Firstly, no I am not being hypocritical because you fail to compar like with like. You are comparing Boro UNILATERALLY giving money away, to the premier league entering into a JOINT agreement. that is a totally differant sitaution and makes any future points you make in your post a waste of time. Your failure to recognise these differances makes you look very silly.

Anyway you completely miss my point, probably on purpose. My 'ire' is with Manure manufacturing a situation where they can cream the lions share of the money, making the rich richer and the poor poorer. Middlesbrough however, had NOTHING to do with these same negotiations that made the prem richer, and the football league poorer. In fact if we hadn't got promoted in the season before the prem started we would have been another vitcim of it from the off. We were a 2nd tier team when te negotations took place for the start of the prem, and the collecting of money for the big teams, therefore they were not involved. So morally our hands are clean, it was not us that ruined the game, it was the then prem sides, and at the top of the tree thinking about how much money they can make were Manure.

I notice a lot in the press about number of games the big name (susbtitute for big 4 team ) players have to play! Heres a thought why don't the big 4 lobby UEFA to get rid of the chumps league group stages. 6 less games straight away! Of course the big 4 teams don't want to lose that extra chumps league money and would much rather the prem league was reduced by 4 teams....therefore less income for all the other prem teams, due to less games, while manure et al get to keep the lucrative, but meaningless chumps league games. Even greater disparegy betwen the haves and have nots. Typical of their money, money, money attitudes. they really are dispicable.

--- Post edited by Boromart on 3/11 11:15 ---

bluehue Posted on 3/11 21:49
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

JESUS H FUCKINCORBETT GIVE IT A BLEEDIN REST!

Boroz Posted on 3/11 22:14
re: Man Utd...£120m Boro......£20m

restin......

until that vvanka turns up again on here