permalink for this thread : http://search.catflaporama.com/post/browse/527589945
jd1973 Posted on 26/11 20:31
The Universe 'n' stuff

How is the universe expanding when it's infinite?
How can it be infinite?
How do we know it's expanding?
If it's not infinite what's on the other side of the edge?
How big is it?
How come we can see so far into the universe?
What are the chances of life being out there somewhere?
If a black hole is the size of a pinprick what happens to all of the stuff that gets sucked in?
Will a black hole eventually swallow the whole universe?

aaaargggghhhhh...my head hurts!

nathan007 Posted on 26/11 20:36
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

If you went past the edge of the universe, you would then enter the other side of the uni. IN THEORY.

trodbitch Posted on 26/11 20:38
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

My favourite subject (although I know sod all)

* How is the universe expanding when it's infinite?

It's not infinite.

* How can it be infinite?

I said it's NOT!!!

* How do we know it's expanding?

The light coming from stars outside our galaxy is slightly shifted into the red part of the spectrum caused by the Doppler effect - this means they are moving away from us and it is expanding.

* If it's not infinite what's on the other side of the edge?

Space and time do not exists on the other side. Trippy, I know.

* How big is it?

Don't know off-hand - but it's big and we know the size.

* How come we can see so far into the universe?

Because there's no air to cause visibility problems?

* What are the chances of life being out there somewhere?

Miniscule.

* If a black hole is the size of a pinprick what happens to all of the stuff that gets sucked in?

I don't know if it is the size of a pinprick but according to 'scientists' all the matter in the universe came from the big bang which started as a point so small it had no dimensions. So stuff can be squashed a LOT.

* Will a black hole eventually swallow the whole universe?

If it is expanding, everything is moving away from black holes so I doubt it. Could be wrong, mind.

guisBOROugh Posted on 26/11 20:39
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

How is the universe expanding when it's infinite? - Good question

How can it be infinite? - It has to go somewhere

How do we know it's expanding? - Astronomers have measured it

If it's not infinite what's on the other side of the edge? - Space?

How big is it? - Uncomprehendably massive

How come we can see so far into the universe? - Because we can invent technology capable to seeing millions and millions of lightyears away. Yet we struggle to get a bus to arrive on time.

What are the chances of life being out there somewhere? - Almost certain

If a black hole is the size of a pinprick what happens to all of the stuff that gets sucked in? - The immense gravity force means any matter to go near it ceases to exist (so i believe)

Will a black hole eventually swallow the whole universe? - no

git_boy Posted on 26/11 20:40
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

i think you'll find dennis law player for united AND city

jd1973 Posted on 26/11 20:45
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Explain more please trod and guis.....

Nedkat Posted on 26/11 20:48
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Read some books, yer fookin' halfwit.

jd1973 Posted on 26/11 20:54
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Now now Grandad.

Just interested in hearing/reading what others have to say.

George1507 Posted on 26/11 20:59
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Certain to be life out there somewhere but we are so remote it's unlikely we'll be discovered and even more unlikely that we could discover life ourselves.

It would take us 10,000 years just to get to the edge of our solar system.

guisBOROugh Posted on 26/11 21:02
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

How is the universe expanding when it's infinite? - Well as Trod stated, with the Doppler effect, astronomers have shown that the Universe is expanding (can't remember the ins and outs, been a good few years since i studied it) But this shows that the galaxies are moving away from eachother, and apparently expanding.

How can it be infinite? - Well, I believe that the term "universe" basically means everything that exists. So if it is expanding somewhere then that must be part of the universe too. Something that we sadly will never know i fear.

How do we know it's expanding? - Doppler effect, as above.

If it's not infinite what's on the other side of the edge? - Like Trod said, It could be that space and time cease to exist outside of the universe, which i cant quite get the grasp of, myself.

How big is it? - Uncomprehendably massive

How come we can see so far into the universe? - Lack of astmosphere means that the light rays are unaffected by molecules. Simple technology, hundreds of years old allowed us to break out of our atmosphere and into the solar system, so advances in technology allow us to venture alot lot further into the vastness of space.

What are the chances of life being out there somewhere? - Theres a formula a guy came up with (how accurate it is i dont know) that takes into consideration many factors in the universe and gives a good indication that there should be life out there. Many scientists believe that there has even been life on mars many millions of years ago. Studies from a meteorite from the red planet that landed on Earth show indications of fossilised worm/paracetic like organisms. Which theres a good chance once lived on Mars, so if it could happen so close to us, I firmly belive that theres plenty of life out there.

If a black hole is the size of a pinprick what happens to all of the stuff that gets sucked in? - Don't know to much on the subject, but I think any matter that entered a black hole would be crushed by its massive gravity into oblivion.

Will a black hole eventually swallow the whole universe? - I think the Universe is expanding quicker than black holes can 'swallow' so there should be no danger of that.

swordtrombonefish Posted on 26/11 21:25
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Do yourself a huge favour and get hold of a copy of Bill Bryson's "A Short History of Nearly Everything"

Read it.
Entertaining, revealing, mind boggling in places, but as an intro into almost every subject you would care to mention, where man has studied or collected something, it is very hard to beat!

king_hellfire Posted on 26/11 21:31
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

'Studies from a meteorite from the red planet that landed on Earth show indications of fossilised worm/paracetic like organisms. '


There are arguments though that the meteorite may have been contaminated after it had struck the Earth.

I'm with Dawkins on the possibility of life existing elswhere in the Universe.
He argues that, say the possibility for the conditions being right for life to flourish on other planets is a Billion to One. Then even at those odds with there being Billions of Galaxies, each containing Billions of stars and most of the stars possibly having some form of planetary systems then the odds are that there may be Billions of Planets containing life of some description, although unfortunately they will probably be so far widespread that contact with them will be nigh on impossible.

I'm not sure but i think that even sending a signal to our nearest star and receiving a reply would take thousands of years.

king_hellfire Posted on 26/11 21:35
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

I agree 'A Short History of Nearly Everything' is a must read, Bill Bryson makes interesting subjects very entertaining.

guisBOROugh Posted on 26/11 21:39
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Yeah there was always that possibility king_hellfire.

Until we get onto Mars ourselves I think theres only so much we can learn about its history. As brilliant as these robots are, they are very limited for research, and the amount of funds and organisation put into landing a probe on mars means that we cant keep sending them there to do small tasks. One scientist said that the trajectory required to land on the planet is so precise that it would be the equivilent of shooting a basketball into a hoop from LA to NYC without touching the sides.

If we want to learn anything about the universe we need to at least get onto our neighbours and start having a skeg.

king_hellfire Posted on 26/11 21:50
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Mars seems to have had an interesting past GuisBOROugh, with the theories that there was water there in the past. If that is the case then it's possible that life could have existed there at some point, possibly the worm/parasitic like organisms that you mentioned.

guisBOROugh Posted on 26/11 21:56
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

There are loads of theories out there, including the fact that that meteorite (and possibly others) may have populated our planted with life before it was eradicated from Mars.

I find it makes more sense for us to look closer rather than farther to start with. Mars appears to have had a similar history to Earth to some extents. So theres every bit of chance that it has harboured life at some point.
There are moons in our solar system that appear to have water or ice, so they could be home to alien organisms. The whole thing is rather fascinating i find.

I rather enjoy a good old conspiracy theory too.

king_hellfire Posted on 26/11 22:05
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

I've heard that meteorite theory too, i've also heard that the impact of a meteorite strike may have been so violent that the shock waves may have decimated the atmosphere, so that the atmosphere now may not be able to support life but it could have done in the past.

All very interesting theories and all very plausible too.

guisBOROugh Posted on 26/11 22:12
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

One thing I've always wondered is if we ever did encounter alien life, what would it look like? Would they be carbon based lifeforms? The vast range of species on our own planted means that much can be left to the imagination. Would we just encounter very simple lifeforms or could they have evolved into something that as humans we couldnt even begin to imagine.

Theres so much goes on in my head, its unbeliveable.

king_hellfire Posted on 26/11 22:22
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

I don't want to get all Dawkins on this thread but he suggested that any life form on other planets would have to have evolved(as opposed to being created)so i suppose the environment that the Alien lifeform came from would play a large part in it's evolution. Say the Planet had a stronger gravitational pull than Earth then the Alien would probably be shorter and more muscular than us and any Alien from a planet with a weaker gravitational pull would be taller and leaner than us, also there would be numerous other factors thrown in such as temperature and density of the atmosphere etc.

So i suppose they would come in all shapes and sizes.

guisBOROugh Posted on 26/11 22:26
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Well thats enough thinking for me for one day. Could rabbit on all night.
Time to lay down, relax and whack on a good western!

BoRoBoY360_co_uk Posted on 26/11 22:29
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

this site will keep you busy in the grey matter department.

Link: eh?

king_hellfire Posted on 26/11 22:29
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

I know what you mean, i've got a headache now.

Winston_Spangler Posted on 26/11 22:33
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

My basic thought on it is that if our Sun has got life in it's galaxy then one of the other stars must have some planet somewhere that has a bit of life on it. Did anyone see the comedy lab with Karl Pilkington talking to the scientist about this? Was very good. The scientist was fuming in a matter of seconds.

king_hellfire Posted on 26/11 22:33
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Cheers BoRoBoY360_co_uk,

I've just added it to my favourites, I'm quite interested in that as well, although i know next to nothing about it, i think i'll have a look at it tomorrow.

king_hellfire Posted on 26/11 22:37
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

If it was the one where he met Professor Heinz Wolff it was very funny.He took himself too seriously for my liking as did Will Self, the tool.

--- Post edited by king_hellfire on 26/11 22:38 ---

dibzzz Posted on 26/11 22:42
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

"What are the chances of life being out there somewhere?"

Here's a more critcal question.

What are the chances of life in the Riverside come May?

king_hellfire Posted on 26/11 22:46
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Sorry, i can't answer that i watch my football at Anfield.




Edited for fear of upsetting my fellow reds.

--- Post edited by king_hellfire on 26/11 22:47 ---

AtomicLoonybin Posted on 26/11 23:02
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

The paradox you are after is the Fermi Paradox:

'The size and age of the universe suggest that many technologically advanced extraterrestrial civilizations ought to exist. However, this hypothesis seems inconsistent with the lack of observational evidence to support it'.

IE; there should be billions of technically advanced civilisations out there. Given the length of time of the universe, one, many, should have explored the universe by now. Why is there no evidence therefore of any visitation here?

Worth reading the Wikipedia article on it. My take is that actually, sadly, interstellar travel is to all intents and purposes, impossible; and that civilisations will either destroy themselves or simply run out of the fuels that they need.

I'd love to be proved incorrect.

Winston_Spangler Posted on 26/11 23:04
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Will Self is a tit. Trying all his life to be clever and funny then gets shown up by Karl Pilkington.

All this lifes not about being stupid and happy. I'd take that over being you you freak.

Winston_Spangler Posted on 26/11 23:06
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

What about somekind of nuclear based blast rocket?

king_hellfire Posted on 26/11 23:15
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

There have been all kinds of arguments that say why we haven't had contact with Extra-terrestrial lifeform.

For example the great distances involved and the Trillions and Trillions of stars in the Universe, Scientists believe that there are as many stars in the Universe as there are grains of sand on Earth and the odds of Aliens happening to stumble across our planet would be too large to imagine.

Also there is the argument that the Alien civilisations would be far more advanced than us and wouldn't neccessarily be interested in us.

Or maybe all the Rednecks claiming to be abducted by Aliens are telling the truth, and the Aliens are sexual deviants dishing out anal probes for fun.

king_hellfire Posted on 26/11 23:18
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Exactly winston

He came out with some crap like 'Socrates said it's better to be brainy and depressed than thick and happy'

Maybe not using those exact words :-) but all the same he's a fooking weird unfunny tool.

knocker_cox Posted on 26/11 23:22
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

the problem is quite simple

our brains only understand 3-d forms because that is all we have been taught to understand, or indeed have the intellectual capacity to understand

to simply classify something as complex as the universe as a 3-d box with sides naturally leads to confusion, as all things with sides naturally needs an outer boundry to exist or co-exist as annexing seperate interfaces, for instance, if you set of at the speed of light in a vertical plane in what humans would call , 'position a' we would eventually after trillions of years simply arrive back at position a, even though we are travelling in a straight line, or ahem 'what our tiny brtains percieve as 'as straight line'

--- Post edited by knocker_cox on 26/11 23:23 ---

knocker_cox Posted on 26/11 23:26
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

i agree with dawkins, and statistical probabilities of alien life being far more probable than the existence of an omnipient creator, even though it at times depresses me, although im not sure whay that is, maybe i just thought santa was real for a while, in fact, i did.

king_hellfire Posted on 26/11 23:33
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

I agree that our brains can't comprehend a vast majority of things.

You said...

'if you set of at the speed of light in a vertical plane in what humans would call , 'position a' we would eventually after trillions of years simply arrive back at position a, even though we are travelling in a straight line, or ahem 'what our tiny brains percieve as 'as straight line'

This has been demonstrated using a three dimensional object(a ball)
Scientists say that if you set of at 'position A' on the surface of the ball and travelled in what is perceived to be a straight line then eventually you end up where you began.

king_hellfire Posted on 26/11 23:36
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

SANTA'S NOT REAL!!!!!!

:-(










I suppose the thought of there being nothing after death can be depressing at times, but it just means you should make the most of the life that you are living.

radiogaga Posted on 26/11 23:40
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

I once knew a fat woman. She dressed in black, which has the effect of slimming fat paople.

It wasn't enough for her and I came to the conclusion that even a black hole in space, which sucks in all matter including light, would not have been powerful enough to make her slim.

Fact.

knocker_cox Posted on 26/11 23:40
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

well, of course you should, but it still doesnt make the fact that it can be depressing, i sometimes wish i was a deluded thick catholic who thinks jesus was the real deal and wanking was strictly forbidden, thank 'god' it isnt

--- Post edited by knocker_cox on 26/11 23:41 ---

Timboi Posted on 26/11 23:41
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Perhaps this has already been asked in this thread (I read most of it, honest) but doesn't the universe basically mean 'everything'? therefore how can the universe NOT be infinite (because there can't be anything outside it).
I'd guess this is a space/time thing but it's all a bit of a headfuck really. Although people can talk about infinity, I'm not sure we're actually able to fully comprehend just what that means.

Bri_Marwood Posted on 26/11 23:44
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

The Universe is roughly 92-94 billion light years across, about 13.7 billion years old and about 40% into it's lifespan.

knocker_cox Posted on 26/11 23:46
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

i think at some point as our brains slowly evolve will we eventually understand the full complexities, or indeed 'incomplexities and lack of insight' of the universe,but as i have said, everything most of the population knows as fact, is only everything the rest of the human race has logically deducted throughout time, in other words, we are born stupid and only precieve what we deem reality through the supposed wisdom of our teachers, we are planarium worms, we are fed information just to get through the life maze

swordtrombonefish Posted on 26/11 23:47
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Whenever life gets you down Mrs. Brown
And things seems hard or tough
And people are stupid, obnoxious or daft
And you feel that you've had quite enough...

Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving, and revolving at 900 miles an hour.
Its orbiting at 19 miles a second, so its reckoned,
A sun that is the source of all our power.
The sun and you and me and all the stars that you can see
Are moving at a million miles a day
In an outer spiral arm at 40 thousand miles an hour
Of a galaxy we call the Milky Way.

Our galaxy itself contains a 100 billion stars,
Its a 100 thousand light years side to side.
It bulges in the middle 16 thousand light years thick
But out by us, its just 3 thousand light years wide.
We're 30 thousand light years from galactic central point
We go round every 200 million years
And our galaxy is only one of millions of billions
In this amazing and expanding universe.

The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding
In all of the directions it can whizz
As fast as it can go,
The speed of light you know,
12 million miles a minute
And that's the fastest speed there is.
So remember when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth.
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth."

knocker_cox Posted on 26/11 23:48
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

i suggest brian, that that is simply the opinion of somebody who hasnt really got a lcue and is just 'guessing'

king_hellfire Posted on 26/11 23:50
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Radiogaga, don't talk about our lass like that.


Timboi, i agree it is a total headfuck and i suppose there are some questions that will never be answered.

Knocker_cox "...and wanking was strictly forbidden..." that's the reason i stopped believing in God.

Bri_Marwood Posted on 26/11 23:54
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

And what is your alternative theory knockers?

Bri_Marwood Posted on 26/11 23:54
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

And what is your alternative theory knockers?

knocker_cox Posted on 27/11 0:00
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

I don't have a theory, as i dont yey have enough information to give you a definitive answer, i was just implying that the answers that you posted are just as improvable as angel gabriel

knocker_cox Posted on 27/11 0:02
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

for instance

what does

the universe is into 40% of its lifespan

what does that mean?, and who said it was?

Bri_Marwood Posted on 27/11 0:04
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Well if scientists are able to calculate the rate at which the universe is expanding and are able to receive light from the outer edges and know how long it took to get here, don't you agree that it's not too difficult for them to calculate the age of the universe and the size of it?

knocker_cox Posted on 27/11 0:11
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

no, because there is yet no definitive concept of what an 'outer edge' actually is, purely just theory

what you are affirming is 'theoretical'

Bri_Marwood Posted on 27/11 0:12
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

You're wrong but I can't be arsed to argue.

Are you religious?

knocker_cox Posted on 27/11 0:15
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

scientists are not actually able to do anything in the sense you think, they are merely hypothosising, much like countless scientists throughtout history that have been subjectivley 'disproved', all opinions about the universe,ridiculous distances etc are always going to be just theory, for instance , who is it possible to for instance say, the universe is 45 xillion , blah blah 34 minutes and 3 seconds old

knocker_cox Posted on 27/11 0:16
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

you cant just say im wrong, and of course im not religious, no doubt if i was you would blame my religion for my stupidity in not understanding some scientists theory as factually correct

i.e an absolute affirmation

knocker_cox Posted on 27/11 0:18
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

the angel gabriel phrase was rhetoric, i thought you might have caugth that one, seen as how you know the width, age and longevity of the universe

knocker_cox Posted on 27/11 0:19
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

are you omnipient?

ThePrisoner Posted on 27/11 0:22
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

"scientists are not actually able to do anything in the sense you think, they are merely hypothosising, much like countless scientists throughtout history that have been subjectivley 'disproved', all opinions about the universe,ridiculous distances etc are always going to be just theory, for instance , who is it possible to for instance say, the universe is 45 xillion , blah blah 34 minutes and 3 seconds old"

Wehey!! God squad alert!!

Yes, the scientists are just making it up. All those telescopes and computers and stuff are just for show!

Bri_Marwood Posted on 27/11 0:25
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Ok, here is the acid test I guess, do you agree that the universe is considerably older than 12,000 years?

knocker_cox Posted on 27/11 0:26
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

eh, god squad alert, ive been an atheist since i was a sperm

no doubt you believe that everthing you read in the sport and sun is true as well, cos its says so

when i say scientists have been disproved, i wasnt refering to 'god' you tiny brained chimp, i was infering to further scientific research disproving them, like some scientist thought the earth was sqaure

read the post next time cave man brain

knocker_cox Posted on 27/11 0:28
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

well of course the earth is older than 12000 years, , why are you insinuating i have some romantic affinity with a creator, life is 'theoretically' 3.5 billion years old on earth alone, who am i talking to here , a budgie

Bri_Marwood Posted on 27/11 0:29
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Oooooh listen at you with your put downs and insults, how do you know for sure that the earth is older than 12,000 years old then?

knocker_cox Posted on 27/11 0:30
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

notice how i use the word 'theory', as in, not factually correct, unlike your affirmation that the universe is 40% or 'middle aged', what will it do when it dies, according to your scientists, go to heaven or shrink back to the size of a pea?

ThePrisoner Posted on 27/11 0:32
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

"when i say scientists have been disproved, i wasnt refering to 'god' you tiny brained chimp, i was infering to further scientific research disproving them, like some scientist thought the earth was sqaure"


Fooking hell! The fastest reverse operation since the Italians at El Alamein!

The S*n? The Sp*rt. I wouldn't wipe my arse on them.

knocker_cox Posted on 27/11 0:32
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

carbon dating and fossilisation of dinosaurs, and of course

evolution

far easier with more proof than proving the universe is middle aged

sorry if i insulted you

Bri_Marwood Posted on 27/11 0:33
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

"you tiny brained chimp"

"the earth was sqaure"

Oh, the irony.

knocker_cox Posted on 27/11 0:33
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

explain to me what you mean by a 'reverse operation'

i simply think you misunderstood my initial point

which exaserbates the chimp remark

Bri_Marwood Posted on 27/11 0:33
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

You couldnt insult me if you really tried.

knocker_cox Posted on 27/11 0:34
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

i can't be arsed to one line insults, the kind of insults people resort to when they have lost a conversation, just chill dude

knocker_cox Posted on 27/11 0:35
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

why would i want to insult you, i dont know you from the wind

knocker_cox Posted on 27/11 0:44
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

ah,obviously the methaphoric phrase reagarding 'angel gabriel' has been misunderstood and dragged from the context in which it was actually portrayed, if you understood what i was infering, it was an actual insult to religious belief, by comparing the theoretical nature of some sciences, with the theoretical nature of fictional indoctrinated belief, ie, both are 'theoretical', surely you cannot fail to understand that?

what im saying is, im not a huge fan of theory, just fact

Bri_Marwood Posted on 27/11 0:48
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

"what im saying is, im not a huge fan of theory, just fact"

What I'm saying is that you're a knobhead and I don't really wish to discuss physics with any knobhead, let alone you sunshine.

You talk utter crap, like an 18 year old doing his a-levels who thinks he knows the world inside and out, I've news for you son.

Oh, and learn to spell if you wish to debate intelligently, you just look an even bigger plank.

knocker_cox Posted on 27/11 0:53
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

hmmm, i suggest you have sex in the very near future, and learn to relax

Bri_Marwood Posted on 27/11 0:54
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

I think I might go wake my wife now and see if she fancies some rumpy pumpy.

What channels will you be watching?

knocker_cox Posted on 27/11 0:56
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

ps.

anybody can just type

'dickhead blah blah, your a kid etc, i think you stink blah blah, you cant type you suck etc'

thats what all world wars were built on, ignornace

good old fashioned

knocker_cox Posted on 27/11 0:57
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

well, go on them do what you do with your wife, what tell me, who cares about you and your bitter life?

onthemap Posted on 27/11 0:57
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

It's a fact that everything you've just argued is in fact theory.

knocker_cox Posted on 27/11 1:02
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

well, i dunno about that one, i mean, its provable isnt it, the fact the universe is 92 billion light years wide simply isnt is it

tape measure bri

sorry, your to busy with yur missus

onthemap Posted on 27/11 1:03
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Here's how it works

If you go outside on a clear night, tonight for instance, and look due west, you will see a star. It might be that this star is, say, ten light years away from Earth. That is, we are looking back ten years to how that star was then, exactly due west to where you are now.

Look back farther and you will see a star hundreds of light years away on the western edge of the galaxy. And farther still you will see galaxies stretching out to galaxies, farther and farther back in time until you reach a point, some fifteen thousand million years ago when you will see the exact spot, looking back in time, at which the big bang happened at the very centre of the universe!

Then turn around and look east!

And do the same thing again! And again, in the east, you will find the exact spot at which the big bang happened, also at the very centre of the universe.

In fact, no matter where you look, at the very extreme of sight you will see the exact spot at which the big bang happened.

When the big bang happened, it was a mere quantum fluctuation, a mere nothing.

We are fifteen thousand million light years in the middle of a mere nothing.

Just how pathetically insignificant can you get?

illuminati Posted on 27/11 1:06
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Look up at the night sky and you are looking back in time.

onthemap Posted on 27/11 1:07
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

I just said that.

illuminati Posted on 27/11 1:08
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Forgive me, it's late

knocker_cox Posted on 27/11 1:12
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

yes, but what exactly is time, seen as how all energy, either atomic or sub atomic doesnt actually 'age'

onthemap Posted on 27/11 1:13
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Bit like radiation half life, it's decay is measurable.

knocker_cox Posted on 27/11 1:16
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

radiation is merely the reactive nature of electrons, protons, and neutrons in 3 waveforms, they dont actually age, a half life of a substance is not its age, its just its reactive age, and thats purely elemental

onthemap Posted on 27/11 1:20
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

I was talking about gamma radiation.

knocker_cox Posted on 27/11 1:22
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

yes but it doesnt 'die out', it just gets absorbed, the electrons just go elesewhere

illuminati Posted on 27/11 1:24
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

You two will have the original posters head spinning, if he makes it this far down.

illuminati Posted on 27/11 1:24
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

You two will have the original posters head spinning, if he makes it this far down.

onthemap Posted on 27/11 1:26
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

'yes, but what exactly is time, seen as how all energy, either atomic or sub atomic doesnt actually 'age'

I was responding to your question above.

onthemap Posted on 27/11 1:32
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Thinking about it, if what you're saying is that radioactive decay, is not decay at all and simply displacement, then you're arguing against every recognised Nuclear Physicist from Archimedes to Edwin Hubble.

onthemap Posted on 27/11 1:44
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Why do I get the impression I'm the only one still here?

br14 Posted on 27/11 2:02
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

The problem with all these statements is that they're based largely on speculation based on perceptions from a tiny spec somewhere within, what appears to be, a vast universe.

If we were on another tiny spec somewhere a few trillion light years away (based on our perceptions at least) then we may have a completely different view of things.

Truth is we dont have a f***ing clue, and anyone who says they know is a liar and a charlatan. If on the other hand they preface each hypothesis with a "maybe", then "maybe" their meanderings are worth consideration.

By the way, how do we know the half-life of anything with a half-life of more than around 100 years?

baldycrowe Posted on 27/11 2:06
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Now now Grandad,superb!

onthemap Posted on 27/11 2:41
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

The decay of radioactive elements occurs at a fixed rate. The half-life of a radioisotope is the time required for one half of the amount of unstable material to degrade into a more stable material.
Ir 192 for example, a source commonly used in modern day radiography has a half life of 72 or 74 days, (I can't remember which, ask the bombers offshore) as such after 72 or 74 days, a source will be exactly half as radioactively 'powerful' as it was originally.

Secondly Hubble used cepheid variables to determine the distance to other galaxies, an extremely precise measurement of luminosity.

--- Post edited by onthemap on 27/11 2:43 ---

zaphod Posted on 27/11 4:30
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

I think the projected lifespan of the Universe is related to when all the reactions generating light and heat run their course. Once the stars use up their hydrogen, they go cold and may collapse. The latest theory is that the Universe will expand forever and will eventually be full of cold, dead stars and black holes.

I believe Hawking's theory is that black holes can emit matter (Hawking radiation) and may eventually dissipate. Nobody actually knows what happens inside a black hole (as no information escapes), so this may or may not be true. I've also read a theory that time slows down and eventually stops at the event horizon of a black hole, so it may be that nothing actually enters it.

gagarin Posted on 27/11 6:27
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

You can try to think about the expanding universe like a currant bun when it's baking.The currants move away from each other because the dough is expanding.A cake related analogy always helps, I think!

What always puzzles me is why there are weird things in the universe that seem to serve no purpose whatsoever - like the element Astatine? There is only around 30 grams of it on earth at any one time.What's the point of it? It's rubbish!

Timboi Posted on 27/11 8:14
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

I'll tell you what though -it's facking big.

10hazza Posted on 27/11 8:26
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

100

guisBOROugh Posted on 27/11 8:58
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Ah quick post before i goto work after reading that.

Was sat on the bog this morning thinking "hmm, what exactly is time?", couldnt get the bugger out of my head.

Of course the majority of things we know or perceive about the universe are based on theories and assumption.
But it is a FACT that to understand to concept of the universe fully, you either must be a god-sent genius, or clinically insane (ie Stephen Hawkin's, who is quite conveniently both of those)

TheSmogMonster Posted on 27/11 9:27
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

The human brain just isn't put together to be able to understand 'the universe' even our technical understanding baffles the mind, future generations will be able to but not ours.

It says something profound when a homeless Surfer Dude - who does physics as a hobby from his old uni days produces the biggest single possible development in unification theory (the theory of 'everything') since Einstien using the E8 mathmatical model, which is way simpler then many of the established theories (an experiment on which should report back in the New Year whether his hobby science is likely to be correct) when people like Hawkings an amazing mind who has dedicated his life to this hasn't produced anything as compelling.

Anthoer thing people confuse 'scientific theory' with 'theory'.

zaphod Posted on 27/11 9:51
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Scientists don't always use the word "theory" properly either. "String theory" isn't really a theory. It's just an idea.

PinkPonce Posted on 27/11 10:04
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

onthe map:

Earlier on when you were talking about looking at a star 10 million light years away, and thats how it looked ten million years ago.

Can you clarify this...

If i look at a star at night and its 10 million light years away, does that mean that that star has actually burnt out, vanished, disappeared, YET we can still see it - because its gonna take 10 million years for the new image of nothign to reach us.

that is truly fooked up but brilliant if thats what you mean mate.

kermit_the_smog Posted on 27/11 10:06
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

I think to understand it all better, some acid or magic mushrooms will help the brain expand and digest all the information into a more comprehendable matter

kermit_the_smog Posted on 27/11 10:07
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

And yeah PinkPonce, I think looking at stars is like looking into the past as a lot of them have burnt out, i think

TheSmogMonster Posted on 27/11 10:37
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Yeah thats possible Pink Ponce.

If say you're looking at it 10,000 light years away, but in 9999 years ago, the star went supernova and then collapsed, then the light from that event wouldn't reach us till next year. If we could travel there in an instant, it'd be there now, but if we went in 4 or 5 years, the star would still be there but in a darker form.

Wouldn't reccomend going if the star was going Nova to be honest.

onthemap Posted on 27/11 12:00
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Pink
Your'e looking at the history of a star.

SuperBokSupper Posted on 27/11 12:12
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Thats all very well eggheads

BUT,

Wh ydont bees come out in WInter

AND

How do they get the jam in doughnuts?

Ey?

king_hellfire Posted on 27/11 14:40
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

'If i look at a star at night and its 10 million light years away, does that mean that that star has actually burnt out, vanished, disappeared, YET we can still see it - because its gonna take 10 million years for the new image of nothign to reach us.'





That's right Ponce.
The light from our own Sun takes 8 minutes to reach Earth, so if the Sun were to suddenly die out it would take 8 minutes before anyone on Earth noticed.

--- Post edited by king_hellfire on 27/11 14:42 ---

the_thread_needler Posted on 27/11 15:00
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

evidence

Link: water on mars

king_hellfire Posted on 27/11 15:05
re: The Universe 'n' stuff


Lefty3668 Posted on 27/11 15:38
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

All of these measurements are not taking into account the other 10, 11, 26 or 248 dimensions, nor Everetts parallel universes.

SuperBokSupper Posted on 27/11 15:45
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

bo11ox to this parralell univers waffle.

Jam > Doughnuts?

eh?

king_hellfire Posted on 27/11 18:53
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Here you go SuperBokSupper...

Link: Lifes big question, answered.

dibzzz Posted on 27/11 19:25
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Do Badgers spy on us during the day?

jd1973 Posted on 27/11 20:20
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Chuffing hell!

The insignifance of our planet, solar system and galaxy compared to the known/unknown/discovered/undiscovered universe is mind-boggling.

It's all fascinating stuff.

boro74 Posted on 27/11 20:43
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Okay, I'm with you on the fact that the universe is expanding. But then if you then go back in time to where it started, that means that all the matter in the Universe was once concentrated in one point. Where did it all come from and how did it get there?

onthemap Posted on 27/11 21:15
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

What we don't know in is whether time existed in any form before the Big Bang - this period is often referred to as the Augustinian Period by the way.

We don't possess particle accelerators advanced enough to create the high energies present during the split second that was the Big Bang.
Since then however the evolution of the universe has proceeded according to known high energy physics and has been accurately measured by Edwin Hubble amongst others.

king_hellfire Posted on 27/11 21:37
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

It's mind boggling to think that all the matter in the Universe that exists now, The billions of Galaxies and the billions of stars, was compressed into a space smaller than the point of a needle at the start of the Big Bang.

king_hellfire Posted on 27/11 21:48
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

'What we don't know in is whether time existed in any form before the Big Bang - this period is often referred to as the Augustinian Period by the way'



One theory is that the Universe expands after the Big Bang event then after X amount of trillions of years it starts to collapse on itself until all the matter is compressed again and then it explodes again as another Big Bang event and continuing in this way indefinitely.

wokingmassive Posted on 27/11 21:54
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

The Catholic Chruch and Gallilao did argue about the earth being the centre of the universe or not.

When in fact we all know that the centre of the universe is Woking.

onthemap Posted on 27/11 21:55
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Well given that energy cannot be created or destoyed then that theory is as good as any other.

It's a subject that must be a source of absolute wonderment to those with the brain to comprehend at least a fraction of it all.
You may have guessed that I'm a little dense to be debating this but it is indeed fascinating.

Timboi Posted on 27/11 22:02
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

What I find interesting, and again goes into the realm of infinity is that scientists believe that energy cannot be created or destroyed - merely changed into different forms.

If this is true then the enregy must have ALWAYS existed.

Blain87 Posted on 27/11 22:07
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

I watched a TV show today on Sky Anytime and there was 2 guys on there who proposed a theory of a big rip. That the universe will eventually rip itself apart.

The basis was this (I think)

The Universe is expanding
Its expanding at a rate which is accelerating
Once it accelerates to a certain point the universe will not be able to stay as one and will rip apart.

Thats what they said to the best of my understanding

pat_the_cat Posted on 27/11 22:37
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

If there is such a thing as infinity then we cannot move thus disproving the notion of infinity.
I'll explain.
If an object is to travel a distance in order to reach a destination then in order to do so it must pass the half way mark (1/2), then half again (1/4), then half again (1/8) of the given distance. So where does it end in order to reach the given destination? If there is such a thing as infinity it can't. Can it?

Shevchenko Posted on 28/11 10:15
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

mind boggling thread but interesting all the same.we'll be seeing flying saucers next,what with all that life out there on other planets.beam me up scottie !!!

SuperBokSupper Posted on 28/11 10:27
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

"The jam is injected into them through a large syringe on a jam reservoir which is pushed into the doughnuts as they go past on a conveyor belt - or alternatively it's done by hand - still using a syringe ! ! !"

There you go.

Now onto this Badgers spying on us during the day ...

Ill give bill oddie a ring and see what he reckons

trodbitch Posted on 28/11 11:58
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

"What I find interesting, and again goes into the realm of infinity is that scientists believe that energy cannot be created or destroyed - merely changed into different forms.

If this is true then the enregy must have ALWAYS existed."

But they also say that not only was all matter and time created during the big bang, but so were the laws of physics so all theories could be wrong!

wokingmassive Posted on 28/11 14:31
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

I heard of a theory that some clever beardies adhere to.

That if you travel far enough through space - you will end up where you started from.

Try and get you heed round that.

pat_the_cat Posted on 28/11 15:00
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

That is because they think that the universe is doughnut shaped. I think.
Having said that, what is outside the 'doughnut'? And for fooks sake don't say 'icing'.

SuperBokSupper Posted on 28/11 15:05
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

I think you'll find I ve covered all the doughnut theories earlier in the thread pat.

skinemrippers Posted on 28/11 15:24
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

According to Physics papers the Big Bang is the easy part. The difficult part is explaining where the initial "components" of the big bang came from. If you look at it in terms of a reaction where the 2 atoms came from that exploded into life and the universe as we know it. That is mind boggling, if you wish to you can take the genius expert's word for the the actual science of the big bang and evolution.

TheSmogMonster Posted on 28/11 15:36
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

One of the thing that could blow your brains away is that its not actually that there was nothing before the big bang, there was no time before the big bang, so the universe has existed forever, but has a definate age.

Some stuff on the first 100 million years or so of the universe is amazing, the scales and energy expelled are mind blowing.

Timboi Posted on 28/11 22:22
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

trod - I've no doubt all theories will eventually be proved as wrong, or at least inaccurate.
The thing that strikes me is there can never have been absolutely nothing. You can't create something out of absolutely nothing and something has to trigger the change in the first place - therefore, there had to be something there in the first place.

That, my friends, is infinity and it's rather strange. I might write a song about it.

The_lawmaker Posted on 28/11 22:25
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

Hey we are up and running again.

zaphod Posted on 29/11 2:34
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

I think there is a theory that the universe is made up of equal amounts of matter and anti-matter, so the net amount of matter is zero.

Timboi Posted on 29/11 2:57
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

zaphod - I've heard something along those lines.

However, even if nothing could be split into something and the opposite of itself, it would still require some force to make it do this.

zaphod Posted on 29/11 3:23
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

That's true, but it does get over the issue of something appearing from nowhere.

Hawking proposes that matter and anti-matter are created at the event horizon of a black hole, with the anti-particle going into the black hole and the particle shooting off in the opposite direction. The black hole would eventually dissipate if it's under a certain size.

Timboi Posted on 29/11 3:32
re: The Universe 'n' stuff

"but it does get over the issue of something appearing from nowhere...".

I think this could make it possible for the universe to add up to nothing but I don't think it explains what could cause nothing to become something, because there'd would still need to be something before that makes the nothing something (now that's a confusing sentence ).