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The_Dude Posted on 02/01/2008 20:43
People who believe in god need commiting

Its amazing when you ask a christian if he believes in fairys or dragons and he'll think your having a laugh, but as soon as you say that god is up there with them, they pull a dickie fit and start going on about sunsets and rain etc

pisces Posted on 02/01/2008 20:46
People who believe in god need commiting

Fair enough if you're not a believer yourself but, you can't prove or disprove whether there is a God or not. Each to his own I say.

The_Dude Posted on 02/01/2008 20:47
People who believe in god need commiting

I don't need to disprove something, if you believe in something you have to prove it, i'm not having that 50/50 crap cause you can't dissprove it, that means fairys and goblins are 50/50

borobadge Posted on 02/01/2008 20:47
People who believe in god need commiting

"a dickie fit"...[:D]....

god bless yer dude.

ThePrisoner Posted on 02/01/2008 20:47
People who believe in god need commiting

What's wrong with building your entire life around a book written over several centuries by dozens of men in the iron age and thinking that the entire universe is just a kind of Its-a-Knock-Out tournament devised by an invisible sky wizard entirely for your personal benefit?

The_same_as_before Posted on 02/01/2008 20:49
People who believe in god need commiting

Why only Christians?

The_same_as_before Posted on 02/01/2008 20:51
People who believe in god need commiting

and the big bang, evidently it isn't and what created the original matter?

The_Dude Posted on 02/01/2008 20:53
People who believe in god need commiting

well, as unprobable as evolution may seem, something even more improbable is this.......

If god is this omnipient creator, then who created the creator, and who created that creater etc, ad infinitum

The_Dude Posted on 02/01/2008 20:56
People who believe in god need commiting

Apparently scientists are trying to recreate the origins of life by exposing ceratin chemically formed protiens in ultra violet light, whilst not being able to do it on say a few years, given the billion or so years the earth had, i think its an unfair question.

The simple fact is, the reality is to difficult for people to think about and therefore simply hide behind the dellusion

ridsdale Posted on 02/01/2008 20:56
People who believe in god need commiting

Perhaps for many Christians there is more to it than just believing in 'fairy tales'.

I know of Christians who help the homeless, feed the junkies, prostitutes and the others who have fallen below the horizon of social services. Then there is the Salvation Army who help people without question, like when they supported the miners during their strike.

It is all too easy to poke fun at religion, or should I say. some religions.

Try out your wisecracks at the nearest Mosque, you'll have them in stitches.

pisces Posted on 02/01/2008 20:57
People who believe in god need commiting

You'll maybe find out one day when you go to heaven. [:)]
That's in answer to the Dude by the way, on who created the creator.

The_Dude Posted on 02/01/2008 20:59
People who believe in god need commiting

yes yes,yes, christians are kind, so are atheists etc

the original point was not about the altrustic nature of humans now was it?

Blain87 Posted on 02/01/2008 21:00
People who believe in god need commiting

500 years ago the world was definitely flat. Until we discovered it wasnt.

I am willing to keep an open mind to the possibility that God exists for this reason. We can't prove he doesnt so I am not going to rule out the possibility. Who knows what we'll discover in the future.

The_Dude Posted on 02/01/2008 21:02
People who believe in god need commiting

yeh, thats what seems odd to me, its being an agnostic being 50/50, its almost a poetic longing for something, almpost hedging your bets just in case, maybe its just me who finds this strange

borobuddah Posted on 02/01/2008 21:02
People who believe in god need commiting

Gawd what have you done?

The christians are threatening us with the Muslims now!

borobadge Posted on 02/01/2008 21:07
People who believe in god need commiting

Buddah......i'll pray to that....[;)]..

Blain87 Posted on 02/01/2008 21:11
People who believe in god need commiting

Whats wrong with somebody beleiving in something which makes them live better lives and help other people?

Muslim terrorists don't count because they simply use Islam as a vehicle for their own ambitions. If they didnt use religeon they'd use patriotism or something else. The vast majority of Muslims are good people. As the vast majority of Christians were during the crusades.

The_Dude Posted on 02/01/2008 21:12
People who believe in god need commiting

cos is silly

Ned_Le_Quesne Posted on 02/01/2008 21:15
People who believe in god need commiting

Not of them exist !!

But, God help you if you upset those Gnomes !!!

JonMc Posted on 02/01/2008 21:21
People who believe in god need commiting

If it weren't for religion we wouln't have had football. Hooray for the god botherers.

FartingGnome Posted on 02/01/2008 21:27
People who believe in god need commiting

Oi! Ned! Leave me out of this one! [:D]

borobadge Posted on 02/01/2008 21:28
People who believe in god need commiting

evening john mc..hows the 'new messiah' doing ?...[:D]..

JonMc Posted on 02/01/2008 21:30
People who believe in god need commiting

[:(]

Sometimes I wish the God botherers hadn't bothered.

The season has a familiar feel.

number9 Posted on 03/01/2008 17:49
People who believe in god need commiting

Well I reckon The_dude is fishing for 100 posts but is falling well short. And as it's been awhile since we had this debate I think I'l contribute.

Can you prove God exists? Depends on your outlook.
Can you prove evolution? Depends on your outlook.

Albert Einstein once got into a discussion with one of his lecturers who believed in evolution, good old Albert believed in god, it apparently went something like this.


Teacher. The existence of God cannot be proven so it is therefore crap.
Albert. Can you prove the existence of cold?
Teacher. Of courser you can.
Albert. Well sorry to point this out Mr. Teacher but you cannot scientifically prove that cold exists. All you can measure is an absence of heat which you feel the effect of. Just because you cannot prove something exists does not stop you feeling its effect.

True story apparently.

For me the sheer diversity of life disproves evolution. For example there are over 5000 different species of mammals alone, with new one being discovered all the time. This is dwarfed by some 900000 species of discovered insects. So far over 15482 different species of marine fish have been catalogued several hundred new ones discovered each year.

That is just a miniscule part of the variety of life that exists on this planet and I am asked to believe that each individual type evolved. Sorry for me that is a bigger leap of faith than believing in God.

whale_oil_beef_hooked Posted on 03/01/2008 17:52
People who believe in god need commiting

The_Dude Posted on 02/01/2008 20:47 Email this Message | Reply
People who believe in god need commiting
I don't need to disprove something, if you believe in something you have to prove it, i'm not having that 50/50 crap cause you can't dissprove it, that means fairys and goblins are 50/50



If you like Goblin Fairys its up to you...each has his own or even no belief.

Blain87 Posted on 03/01/2008 17:53
People who believe in god need commiting

good post no.9

If life can only come from living matter, which is what most scientists beleive, where did the first bit of living matter come from? Is it not remotely possible it was created by God?

susy Posted on 03/01/2008 17:57
People who believe in god need commiting

Lots of scientist who were non believers after doing loads of research decided to turn to christianity. My dad told me that and he is well read up in these scientific things.

borobadge Posted on 03/01/2008 17:58
People who believe in god need commiting

amen to that.

midoshead Posted on 03/01/2008 17:59
People who believe in god need commiting

Theres nothing wrong with having some faith.

Tom_Fun Posted on 03/01/2008 18:00
People who believe in god need commiting

The Dude, you can't see gravity either. Do you not believe in that?

TheSmogMonster Posted on 03/01/2008 18:00
People who believe in god need commiting

Some utter bull.. on this thread

Einstien said no such thing... see the link.

And just because you can't get your head anround something doesn't mean its not real.

Fook loads of proof for evolution, none for god. Feelings don't count for fook all.

Its up to people what they believe in, but trying to convince others with false stories doesn't seem very Christian to me.




Link: Fundies messing with history again?

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 03/01/2008 18:00
People who believe in god need commiting

My favourite christian is the Bishop of Southwark.

People only get committed when they fashion metal helmets to stop people from reading their thoughts.

gravyboat Posted on 03/01/2008 18:00
People who believe in god need commiting

'Invisible sky wizard'

[:D][:D]

Lefty Posted on 03/01/2008 18:01
People who believe in god need commiting

'That is just a miniscule part of the variety of life that exists on this planet and I am asked to believe that each individual type evolved. Sorry for me that is a bigger leap of faith than believing in God.'

Surely the two are not mutually exclusive? Do you believe in intelligent design?



Blain87 Posted on 03/01/2008 18:02
People who believe in god need commiting

Smogmonster, no proof of god?

What about stories of 9 stone women defying the 'laws' of physics and biology to lift 2 tonne cars off their trapped children? Is this not a miracle? If not, how do you explain it? Is Boro winning a cup not, in fact, a miracle?

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 03/01/2008 18:04
People who believe in god need commiting

Blain

1. Adrenaline

2. The genius of Steve McClaren

SplendidStuff Posted on 03/01/2008 18:06
People who believe in god need commiting

Ask why God is actually named God.

If you have a being that created all life as we know it, then why did he/she/it/? have a name?

Did God decide that people would eventually develop langage and thought a name would be required? Did god make language possible and thought thats what we should use a his/her/? name?

If God does exist and is a singular entity responsible for all life then how would they develop language? God does speak to people right?

number9 Posted on 03/01/2008 18:06
People who believe in god need commiting

Ah it's on a website so it must be wrong then? We all know that the internet is always right and that there are no untruths on the internet.

And i did say "Apparently" which apparently means

"used to say you have read or been told something although you are not certain it is true"

make your own mind up but just because a person believes in God rather than evolution does not make them a fool. And of course the same would apply in reverse.

And Lefty if I believe in intelligent design surley that means I believe in God?

Blain87 Posted on 03/01/2008 18:09
People who believe in god need commiting

Adrenaline cannot explain some of these incidents, as the person's muscles simply cannot exert enough pressure to lift such weights. Its 'physically impossible'

Lefty Posted on 03/01/2008 18:09
People who believe in god need commiting

'just because a person believes in God rather than evolution'

There you go again. Why must they be mutually exclusive, unless you believe in intelligent design?

SplendidStuff Posted on 03/01/2008 18:10
People who believe in god need commiting

Blain what 9 stone woman picked up a 2ton car?

Sure you're not thinking of the HULK.

SplendidStuff Posted on 03/01/2008 18:10
People who believe in god need commiting

Blain what 9 stone woman picked up a 2ton car?

Sure you're not thinking of the HULK.

tees_tripper Posted on 03/01/2008 18:10
People who believe in god need commiting

I remember hearing the Adam n Eve and Noahs Ark bible stories when I was about 5 and even then I thought talking snakes and a big wooden boat filled with animals was a little far-fetched. But each to their own I say

axel1974 Posted on 03/01/2008 18:10
People who believe in god need commiting

there is nobody currently alive who can prove or disprove any religion anyway.......

why do they need committing? seems a bit of a strange argument

would you rather someone was deeply religious but a good person than someone not religious but went round cutting heads off people's dogs?

mm40 Posted on 03/01/2008 18:12
People who believe in god need commiting

this type of thread is usual started for a reaction, whatever your beliefs respects others including christians and evolutionists. One day you will find out if there is life after death or not, make your choice.

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 03/01/2008 18:13
People who believe in god need commiting

I dated a glaswegian who could probably pick up a car and she was only 5 foot 2. It didnt prove the existance of god, just that she was from glasgow.

SplendidStuff Posted on 03/01/2008 18:14
People who believe in god need commiting

life after death and god are not really the same thing are they.

Blain87 Posted on 03/01/2008 18:15
People who believe in god need commiting

There's been plenty of incidents splendid. Google it if you want proof

Lefty Posted on 03/01/2008 18:15
People who believe in god need commiting

'And Lefty if I believe in intelligent design surley that means I believe in God?'

Yes, I suppose so. However you can believe in God and also believe in evolution. I'm just trying to puzzle out exactly what your position is.

I assume now that you believe in the God that is presented in the King James bible i.e. he created the universe and everything in it, then light, the earth, the sky, the sea etc, then the animals and then man in his own image?

I'm not having a pop or ridiculing.

SplendidStuff Posted on 03/01/2008 18:15
People who believe in god need commiting

And isn't it only people, not animals that goto heaven?

SplendidStuff Posted on 03/01/2008 18:16
People who believe in god need commiting

blain, NO 9 stone woman can pick up a 2 ton weight.

Blain87 Posted on 03/01/2008 18:17
People who believe in god need commiting

So science would have you beleive splendid

susy Posted on 03/01/2008 18:17
People who believe in god need commiting

How arrogant is that! Why should only humans be allowed into heaven?

SplendidStuff Posted on 03/01/2008 18:19
People who believe in god need commiting

blain its ridiculous, her arms would snap off.

number9 Posted on 03/01/2008 18:19
People who believe in god need commiting

Ah Lefty can always be relied upon for a good debate. Too often this subject attracts ridicule from both camps as they are unable to prove there position. Evolution is as much a leap of faith as believing in God.

I go for the latter, but not the KJ version as it has too many spurious additions such as the divine right of kings. I once read an article "Elusive Icons of Evolution" by Jonathan Wells which I found to be very informative.

Blain87 Posted on 03/01/2008 18:19
People who believe in god need commiting

Her arms would snap off, barring a miracle

Tomdoodle Posted on 03/01/2008 18:19
People who believe in god need commiting

I like that this has turned into a theological debate when The_Dude was just cracking wise about legend and myth.

Lefty Posted on 03/01/2008 18:20
People who believe in god need commiting

Blain, where are these examples you speak of? Do you have any links?

Were they scientifically investigated or just newspaper reports?

SplendidStuff Posted on 03/01/2008 18:21
People who believe in god need commiting

If a woman can lift a 2 ton car, why can't she she play premiership football?

Or is god sexist?

Tom_Fun Posted on 03/01/2008 18:21
People who believe in god need commiting

His crack wasn't that wise.

Blain87 Posted on 03/01/2008 18:21
People who believe in god need commiting

I havent looked, I've heard numerous stories, seen newspaper reports etc. Look em up Im sure they're out there

SplendidStuff Posted on 03/01/2008 18:24
People who believe in god need commiting

Blair show me some evidence and i'll take it on the chin, if not then go play with your HULK toys.

Blain87 Posted on 03/01/2008 18:25
People who believe in god need commiting

If a woman can lift a 2 ton car, why can't she she play premiership football?

Or is god sexist?

No he's not sexist. He just likes diversity. Women cant play premiership football as well as men can. Men cant love and nurture children, as a woman can.

SplendidStuff Posted on 03/01/2008 18:26
People who believe in god need commiting

Oh dear your argument just fell apart.


number9 Posted on 03/01/2008 18:27
People who believe in god need commiting

Blain87 put yer spade away lad.

Blain87 Posted on 03/01/2008 18:28
People who believe in god need commiting

Spendiff. No need to be like that. I am convinced of miracles. You are the one who needs convincing so go find your evidence.

I don't know how I've come to be arguing so pro-God. I don't even beleive in 'God' in a traditional sense. I suppose I just feel people have the right to beleive whatever they want to beleive as long as they don't hurt anybody else. And I take issue with people trying to take that beleif for no reason, other than their own entertainment.

Lefty Posted on 03/01/2008 18:29
People who believe in god need commiting

'Evolution is as much a leap of faith as believing in God'

Only if you don't believe that God is not capable of starting the process of evolution.

I am not very familiar with the different versions of the bible. Is it very significant which one you pick?

Do you not think that evolution happens at all?

SplendidStuff Posted on 03/01/2008 18:30
People who believe in god need commiting

You say miracles happen but provide no proof.

You say god is a he.

You claim to know that god is not sexist and likes diversity.

You claim men can't love and nurture a child like a woman can.



Muttley Posted on 03/01/2008 18:32
People who believe in god need commiting

Lord preserve us from pre-pubescent know-it-alls, Amen.

Spare a thought for Atheists at this time of year.

axel1974 Posted on 03/01/2008 18:32
People who believe in god need commiting

i believe in miracles...... where you from you sexy thing?

sasboro1 Posted on 03/01/2008 18:33
People who believe in god need commiting

I find it funny when religious people mock someone like david Ike and his lizards. Whats the difference really?

Blain87 Posted on 03/01/2008 18:35
People who believe in god need commiting

Miracle?

The docs seem to think so


Link: miracle?

number9 Posted on 03/01/2008 18:36
People who believe in god need commiting

I think many people confuse adaptation with evolution.

Like I said the KJ was written for King James (hence the name) and has a number of additions that were not in the original texts used.

But more to the point... what should i have for my tea fish & chips or a chicken curry.

number4 Posted on 03/01/2008 18:36
People who believe in god need commiting

so dude, you haven't answered, does this apply only to the god of christians or allah and buddah too ?

it always shows a persons true colours when they insult other people's beliefs and make generalisations. i think it's till called bigotry. play nice.

Muttley Posted on 03/01/2008 18:36
People who believe in god need commiting

Believing in God is the smart thing to do. If you die and arrive at the Pearly Gates as a believer, in you pop pick up your harp, third cloud from the left... enjoy. If you arrive at the Pearly Gates as a non-believer, it's meet Nick... he's into punishment. If you die as a believer and there is no afterlife and no Pearly Gates, what have you lost?

SplendidStuff Posted on 03/01/2008 18:37
People who believe in god need commiting

blain sorry im laughing at you, may god strike me down.

Could he walk and lift 2 ton cars, now thats a miracle.


bblf Posted on 03/01/2008 18:38
People who believe in god need commiting

If it wasn't for God we wouldn't of beat Arsenal. I know cos I asked him to make it happen.
Thought I was pushing it a bit with Everton but I will be asking for a win V Liverpool.

Blain87 Posted on 03/01/2008 18:39
People who believe in god need commiting

It was a she. Try reading it. Particularly the bit where she says 'the doctors said it was nothing short of a miracle'. Surely the doctors are accepted as experts in their field, by the almighty splendid?

SplendidStuff Posted on 03/01/2008 18:45
People who believe in god need commiting

If you believe in an afterlife such as heaven then when did it open for business?

I mean if caveman was good did he get to go, and throughout the ages various people from various cultures and times. Must be rammed full unless you float around like a non entity taking up no space.

If you goto heaven how do you find relatives? and do you have to locate them or do they get an email saying you're on the way?

If you meet relatives then surely you would meet many, many relatives from different centuries, maybe even different languages, how does that work, or do you ignore them and talk to the english speaking ones ( unless we all speak the same language immediately, maybe you goto classes).

And if the gene pool was smaller way back, then chances are you are related to a much broader gene pool than you could ever imagine.

Does it work by surname, blood group, dna, ?

Blain87 Posted on 03/01/2008 18:47
People who believe in god need commiting

When did I say I beleived in an afterlife? or heaven?

You still havent acknowledged the possibility of a miracle from the link i posted.

Have you ever had a child, partner, parent in the ICU being kept alive by a machine?

SplendidStuff Posted on 03/01/2008 18:49
People who believe in god need commiting

"It was a she. Try reading it. Particularly the bit where she says 'the doctors said it was nothing short of a miracle'. Surely the doctors are accepted as experts in their field, by the almighty splendid?"

Theres a lot that doctors dont know yet so thats no argument.

Fort example you have the guy who invented penicilin and the guy who managed heart transplants.

Surely they would be miracles unless of course you develop the required level of undertstanding to figure out how these things work. Its like saying curing cancer is a mircale, its not its an evolutionary process of scientific exploration.

SplendidStuff Posted on 03/01/2008 18:54
People who believe in god need commiting

No ive never had a family member in ICU, but i have had one murdered !!! [:O]

Still i know shes gone and i won't see her in some afterlife, she is gone and ceases to be, but thats the nature of life and i dont expect we have a divine right to be any different to any lifeform on this planet.

I know my cat has a feelings and experiences emotions but she doesnt exist after shes dead.

Blain87 Posted on 03/01/2008 19:11
People who believe in god need commiting

Well try and imagine that one day you were unlucky enough to have a loved one in ICU clinging to life. The doctors tell you there is nothing they can do and its only a matter of time before they die.

Given that there is no other hope, do you imagine you might think to yourself 'please God, help them, I'll do anything....etc'. I think everybody would say a little prayer in these circumstances. Does doing this acknowledge the possibility of a God existing?

Lefty Posted on 03/01/2008 19:16
People who believe in god need commiting

You\'ve dropped the .5, haven\'t you?

I wonder if you have studied Darwin as much as you have looked at scripture.

Evolution is about mutation, which is simply errors in the DNA copying process and this is random. Natural selection is the process where those mutations that either make no difference to an organism or are advantageous survive in a population (as opposed to those mutations that are lethal or render a creature at a disadvantage). If they are advantageous to a creature then over time doesn\'t it make sense that they become prevalent in a species?

If you do not believe in mutation then you are denying the ageing process as well as Cancer, Huntington's disease etc etc. How then do you explain why some people and their children suffer from these diseases yet some don't?

As for the different versions of the Bible, you have just detailed an example of change to an earlier version. These were deliberate changes, but there are many examples just of translation errors. How then can ANY be relied on as the truth?

Furthermore, if this is the word of God, would he not have told the story, simplified it, so that the ancient peoples could understand it? Would the citizens of Ur have been able to grasp the vastness of the universe or the concept of DNA mutation? Are any of us modern humans capable of grasping quantam physics even now?

I like Toby's answer in The West Wing when he was asked in his Synagogue if he did not believed that the Torah was the word of God. He said he believed every word of it was true, it was just that we were incapable of understanding it.

Have the fish and chips.

Lefty Posted on 03/01/2008 19:28
People who believe in god need commiting

Blain, ignoring the fact that your article was in the Sunday Mirror FFS, what about this quote from it?

'The consultant took my family aside. "Charlotte will be in a wheelchair for the rest of her life because the spinal damage is so severe," he said. "She may never walk again."'

MAY never?

I might consider this a bona fide miracle if she'd had her legs chopped off and they'd grown back.

Blain87 Posted on 03/01/2008 19:32
People who believe in god need commiting

Agreed

But was there not further damage discovered?

The part near the bottom says the docs thought it was a miracle.

Can some 'God-botherers' come and defend their own corner please?

axel1974 Posted on 03/01/2008 19:32
People who believe in god need commiting

ha ha

good point lefty

number9 Posted on 03/01/2008 19:49
People who believe in god need commiting

Lefty no not dropped .5, he/she is not me as I have been a JW for 25yrs, from reading his posts he seem'd a confused soul, i'm not.

I am not going to get into a theological debate right now, mabey at a latter date.

Went for the curry which i am now gonna have.

Lefty Posted on 03/01/2008 19:53
People who believe in god need commiting

Ah.

Enjoy the curry.
(You got that wrong too [;)] )


sasboro1 Posted on 03/01/2008 19:57
People who believe in god need commiting

"If you die as a believer and there is no afterlife and no Pearly Gates, what have you lost?"

basically you have wasted a big chunk of your time and life doinf stuff that is a load of bollox

Lefty Posted on 03/01/2008 20:10
People who believe in god need commiting

'But was there not further damage discovered?'

So a misdiagnosis in the first place to boot.



red_shamrock Posted on 03/01/2008 20:21
People who believe in god need commiting

St Peter at the pearly gates and 40 gypsies turned up wanted to be let in.
Hang on a minute Ill after have a word with the almighty 40 Gypsies at once he might have something to say about that gives us five minutes.
So St Peter trudges off and says to God Ive got 40 gypsies at the gates wanting to know if they can come in like.
God says No way tell them to float.
St Peter comes back 5 mins later and says They've "GONE GOD"
What the Gypsies? replies God.


No the Fookin pearl gates.

susy Posted on 03/01/2008 20:59
People who believe in god need commiting

As for the afterlife, I have witnessed several people dying and have known that "they" have gone a few moments before their bodies stop breathing and their heart stops beating.

I have also had a cat die and then when cleaning up his body before we buried him he mieowed loudly beside us, his body was in front of us!

I strongly believe in an afterlife, ive seen too much not to.

ThePrisoner Posted on 03/01/2008 21:10
People who believe in god need commiting

"As for the afterlife, I have witnessed several people dying and have known that "they" have gone a few moments before their bodies stop breathing and their heart stops beating.

I have also had a cat die and then when cleaning up his body before we buried him he mieowed loudly beside us, his body was in front of us!"

Ever seen a chicken run around with its head cut off? Definite proof of God! Or a dead frog's legs twitch when given an electric shock? Divine intervention!

No wonder the world's such a mess when people can't even manage the basics of logical thought but instead resort to the supernatural.

wokingmassive Posted on 03/01/2008 21:13
People who believe in god need commiting

I saw a program over Christmas about the Catholic church helping Nazi's escape to South America at the end of WW2.

So all of those who say religion is good for nothing - how silly must you be feeling now?

bollockbreath Posted on 03/01/2008 21:13
People who believe in god need commiting

Some things in life are bad,
They can really make you mad,
Other things just make you swear and curse,
When you\'re chewing life\'s gristle,
Don\'t grumble,
Give a whistle
And this\'ll help things turn out for the best.
And...

Always look on the bright side of life.
[whistle]
Always look on the light side of life.
[whistle]

If life seems jolly rotten,
There\'s something you\'ve forgotten,
And that\'s to laugh and smile and dance and sing.
When you\'re feeling in the dumps,
Don\'t be silly chumps.
Just purse your lips and whistle.
That\'s the thing.
And...

Always look on the bright side of life.
[whistle]
Always look on the right side of life,
[whistle]
Always look on the bright side of life.
[whistle]
Always look on the right side of life,
[whistle]

For life is quite absurd
And death's the final word.
You must always face the curtain with a bow.
Forget about your sin.
Give the audience a grin.
Enjoy it. It's your last chance, anyhow.
So,...

Always look on the bright side of death,
[whistle]
Just before you draw your terminal breath.
[whistle]

Life's a piece of S***,
When you look at it.
Life's a laugh and death's a joke it's true.
You'll see it's all a show.
Keep 'em laughing as you go.
Just remember that the last laugh is on you.
And...

Always look on the bright side of life.
Always look on the right side of life.
[whistle]

Always look on the bright side of life!
[whistle]
Always look on the bright side of life!
[whistle]
Always look on the bright side of life!
[whistle]
Always look on the bright side of life!
[whistle]
Always look on the bright side of life!
[whistle]
Always look on the bright side of life!
[whistle]
Always look on the bright side of life!
[whistle]
Always look on the bright side of life!
[whistle]

Repeat to fade...



The_Dude Posted on 03/01/2008 22:15
People who believe in god need commiting

Well, to answer a few questions

Christians , muslims and catholic believe in the abrahamic god, because they were born in abrahamic believing countries

People from scandanavia believe in thor and woden and valhalla

People from a country say, greece, believe in zeus etc, so its very easy to understand the origins of at creator was different depending on where you were born

there is actual evidence of evolution, ergo it is not a 'leap of faith', a fossil is there to see, god didnt put it there to trick us all, how pathetic is that argument

A leap of faith is a delusion based around heresay and no evidence, hence 'leap of faith'

Genes are a very difficult system for me to explain in the short time i can be arsed to type on here, needless to say, the simplest explanation to why we grow old is so we don't compete with our offspring, read the selfish gene by r.dawkins

Cannot disprove that god created evolution, well , thats stupidly weak because you again are automatically putting the probablity of god at 50/50 without any evidence

thats where people just can't use there brains, who created the creator, they rubbish evolution, just say god done it, but when you ask who created god, they just say, well hes always been there, or they simply cannot answer, its rubbish, its less believable just on that point, evolution is more statistically probable than an omnipient creator who just was, from nothingness

The reason people dont understand evolution is because they dont know the slightest thing about physics, time and human perception of the universe, and to be honest neither do i, completely , and will probably die still not knowing completely, but there is far more grandure in believing in what i see, touch and feel, than what is in a fairytale, and nobody or book, or anicdotal evidence is going to change my mind, because i just happen to be somebody who cares about the truth.




The_Dude Posted on 03/01/2008 22:18
People who believe in god need commiting

JUst an adendum to my post

i think they call it a palindrome

'god created man in his own image'

should read

'man created god in his own image'

The dude abides

red_shamrock Posted on 03/01/2008 22:19
People who believe in god need commiting

Physics bored me ...
Time I knew it would soon be 3.30.
Human perception I know where your coming from.

Chris_From_Pitchside Posted on 03/01/2008 22:21
People who believe in god need commiting

So what about life after death then? Do you believe the music goes off and it all goes black like Tony Soprano?

red_shamrock Posted on 03/01/2008 22:23
People who believe in god need commiting

I beleive theres a Boro match on everyday in heaven and the protestants serve the beer and are match day stewarts.
Well it will save a few of them from burning.

Chris_From_Pitchside Posted on 03/01/2008 22:26
People who believe in god need commiting

I like to think there's something afterwards. You may as well believe it. I don't want dying a painful death as a result of binge drinking to be the last thing I do.

There was a really informative documentary on last night starring the pig-faced one out of Liberty X.

onthemap Posted on 03/01/2008 22:28
People who believe in god need commiting

You shouldn't really comment on the ridiculousness of believing unless you're in your 80's or suffering from a terminal illness.

That's when you'll be qualified and not before.

Warwick_Hunt Posted on 03/01/2008 22:28
People who believe in god need commiting

Creationism.

Biggest load of B******* since the Bible.

Chris_From_Pitchside Posted on 03/01/2008 22:30
People who believe in god need commiting

I know it's unlikely but you never know. The fact that this whole thing is happening anyway must be at least 100/1 shot. Probably even higher. Say 400/1.

Blain87 Posted on 03/01/2008 22:41
People who believe in god need commiting

Congrats Dude

105 bites

king_hellfire Posted on 03/01/2008 23:42
People who believe in god need commiting

You'll find all kinds of religion based arguments on here.

I'ts an excellent site, i've been posting on there for a few months now and there are a few religious nutcases on there, but they just go towards showing the different ways religion affects people. There are some very interesting subjects up for debate on there.

Needless to say the Atheists always get the upper hand.


Link: Philosophy and Religion

Blain87 Posted on 03/01/2008 23:48
People who believe in god need commiting

Looks more like a gay site to me. loads of threads about bumsex

The_Dude Posted on 03/01/2008 23:52
People who believe in god need commiting

well, a catholic would know all about that

not saying you are mind

ahem...................

king_hellfire Posted on 03/01/2008 23:54
People who believe in god need commiting

OOPS!

Have i linked the wrong website again [:D]

Blain87 Posted on 03/01/2008 23:55
People who believe in god need commiting

I'd probably describe myself as Athiest, although I can see why you would think I was Catholic

SplendidStuff Posted on 03/01/2008 23:55
People who believe in god need commiting

Thats a movie review site.

king_hellfire Posted on 04/01/2008 00:03
People who believe in god need commiting

'I know of Christians who help the homeless, feed the junkies, prostitutes and the others who have fallen below the horizon of social services. Then there is the Salvation Army who help people without question, like when they supported the miners during their strike.'


Yes ridsdale, the people of whom you speak are decent moral people but the fact that they are Christian has nothing to do with it, there are many people in the world who are decent and moral who aren't Christian.


onthemap Posted on 04/01/2008 00:04
People who believe in god need commiting

Thought you two had gone to bed, bid goodnight as it were?

jimborored Posted on 04/01/2008 00:22
People who believe in god need commiting

Been an athiest for the majority of m life, altough i was christened a catholic. One of my favourite sayings throughout life has always been, religion is the biggest evil in the world. However I feel this simplifies the subject too much. The problem is not the fact that people believe in this, in my opinion, silly superstitious nonsense. It is infact the dickheads who try to force it on others. Im not trying to enforce my oppinions here merely pointing out my feelings. As a famous guy once said "I dissaprove of what you say but i will defend with my life your right to say it". He was full of shoite as well because myself and nobody else should ever defend extremist Bullshoite in any way shape or form.

The_Ox Posted on 04/01/2008 01:12
Divide and Rule.....

it's a human concept to keep the religious factions at war ! The truth is out there but too many people have closed minds that have been suppressed by indoctrination from parents, teachers and preachers unfortunately ! Knowledge is power - and the power of knowledge allows a minute few to keep the masses in a mental prison to which he never escapes unless he opens his mind to other possibilities ! CLOSED MINDS OPEN SKIES !!

jimborored Posted on 04/01/2008 01:23
Divide and Rule.....

OX, lad. You been on the wacky. You said knowledge is power and from then on Im not sure which argument you were supporting.From the mention of teachers and preachers indoctrinating people then I take it you are against religion. But If Knowledge is truly power then the people who have been educated through science and modern theories are truly the ones with the power. Not the minority of people who believe in an ancient custom.

The_Dude Posted on 04/01/2008 01:46
Mathematics, everything is in the end

Knowledge, at its root core, is simply a harmonious series of mathematical calculations based around a hypothetical conceptual understanding of the world we see, touch, smell and taste.

I've often wondered what thought processes i would have if i was born on a desert island with no human contact, wether i would even have a level of intelligence, or indeed , deemed intelligence, what i would think if i saw a sunset, or the moon, i certainly wouldnt think of the moon or the sun as a god, because i would have no conceptual or ideologial notion of what a god is, or indeed the thought process of why i would be thinking about what the moon is, i assume that ancestors passed this information on though a slow gradual indoctrination, the fact that nearly all our understanding is based around conceptual ideas passed on from our ancestors, its not to hard to understand why there is so many chinese whispers in modern day life, i class religion as the ultimate of examples in this case, but as a conscious entity i would like to think i am doin the right thing in weighing up all the evidence we as a race has stumbled across and coming to my own conclusions, life is, and in my eyes should always be bias toward the evidence that stands before us and is available to our evolved senses, and never to our poetic romantacism

axel1974 Posted on 04/01/2008 01:48
Mathematics, everything is in the end

is this thread still going

i nodded off on it this afternoon

jimborored Posted on 04/01/2008 01:49
Mathematics, everything is in the end

Google is a wonderful thing T_D.

SplendidStuff Posted on 04/01/2008 01:49
Mathematics, everything is in the end

Yeh but the dude, you won't go to heaven [;)]

Its pretty sad that people cant deal with loss and need fiction to fill the void.


The_Dude Posted on 04/01/2008 01:53
Mathematics, everything is in the end

I take your insinuation of plagiarism as a compliment

the dude abides

zaphod Posted on 04/01/2008 01:54
People who believe in god need commiting

It's useless to lump all religions together as "Religion". Each religion stands on its own & has its own version of truth & evidence to support it. As a Christian, I wouldn't see the point in arguing in favour of Buddhism, for example, because I think it's an error as big as atheism.

It is, however, simply ludicrous to say religion is the biggest evil in the world. Where is the evidence to support that? There was no widescale atheism before the 20th Century and it is no accident in my opinion that the 20th Century saw brutality taken to new levels. The atheist regimes of Stalin & Mao managed to kill far more people than have died in all the religious wars since time began. This would suggest that atheism is the biggest evil the world has ever seen.

SplendidStuff Posted on 04/01/2008 01:58
People who believe in god need commiting

Yes debating between religions is pointless because they all follow the theory that there is an afterlife and that god exists.

It a club and to get you in the club they play on emotion's.

It strange that almost all the religious people i know and have met are born into it. You can also look at various countries and the percentage of 'believers' and draw certain conclusions.

One such conclusion is that in oppressive countries and those with low education, god rules.

axel1974 Posted on 04/01/2008 01:59
People who believe in god need commiting

as far as i am concerned there are that many religions in the world that all of them cannot be correct. in fact it is more than likely that they are all a collection of stories written by people trying to preach goodness in people....... nothing wrong in that at all.

over the years, some people have become obsessed with religion and have forgotten how to be nice to each other in some instances....... islamic terrorism? how can people who believe in a god carry out these atrocities? something has gone seriously wrong there

if there was no religion to fight over, the world would be an infinitely better place and people would remember how to be nice to each other again

The_Dude Posted on 04/01/2008 02:00
People who believe in god need commiting

I can't even be arsed to reply to this post , because its stupid,but i will anyway, why do you refer to atheism as a religion when it is not, there is no belief system in atheism, the argument is rubbish

and did stalin kill people becasue he was athiest, what evidence do you have of this, your argument, an argument about morality that is shaped by belief is a completely different subject altogether because mao and stalin did not kill anybody becasue of 'atheism', they killed people because they were mad B*****s, the fact that they didnt believe in fairytales is irrelavent.


SplendidStuff Posted on 04/01/2008 02:03
People who believe in god need commiting

axel, religion isnt about being nice and good, its about a belief.

You can still be morally good and nice but you don't have to follow religion.

Is this to say that if these people didnt follow religion they would have no moral compass?

The_Dude Posted on 04/01/2008 02:04
People who believe in god need commiting

'Each religion stands on its own & has its own version of truth & evidence'

A 'version' of truth and evidence

what the F*** does that mean

zaphod Posted on 04/01/2008 02:10
People who believe in god need commiting

Stalin & Mao killed people because of their beliefs, of which atheism was a central plank. They specifically targeted religious people.

Of course there is a belief system in atheism, even if if it is a disbelief system. Because of their atheism, they were not constrained by any moral framework, because atheism does not support any system of morality. Individual atheists may adhere to their own system of morality, but it is not an integral part of atheism. As a result, Stalin & Mao were completely amoral. You can't just dismiss them as mad; they weren't mad, they were evil.

The_Dude Posted on 04/01/2008 02:21
People who believe in god need commiting

you seem to have a mental block on understanding atheism

It isnt a belief system is it, there is nothing in it to believe , is it really that hard for you to understand

Now, the thing that you are actually talking about now, is the altruistic nature in people, why people have morals, when quite clearly the topic of the post was about the physical exsistence of an omnipitent creator, all this moral framework crap is a freudian slip on your part, because your telling me, that if you didnt believe in god you would go and kill somebody

that is the real scary bit, it really is

jimborored Posted on 04/01/2008 02:25
People who believe in god need commiting

"Stalin & Mao killed people because of their beliefs, of which atheism was a central plank. They specifically targeted religious people."

zaphod, what a complete load of horse shoite you are talking. Stalin and Mao killed people because alongside their atheism they also had another set of beliefs. The core one being that anybody who disagreed with them was wrong and should die. As I said in my earlier post. All forms of extremism should be abhorred. Including your little deluded belief that all Atheists want to kill and have no morals. Maybe thats not your belief, but by lumping Stalin and Mao in and saying that there core belief in atheism lead to the genocide they caused and not looking at the fact that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Then maybe you should be looking at yourself as an extremist. Maybe given the right circumstances, devoid of anybody with the power to stop you. Who's to say you wouldn't look on atheism as a religion and do your best to stamp it out?

The_Dude Posted on 04/01/2008 02:29
People who believe in god need commiting

Its no good trying to explain to him, hes brainwashed

jimborored Posted on 04/01/2008 02:33
People who believe in god need commiting

He's got a right to his opinion though. But to me it does seam a little extreme.

SplendidStuff Posted on 04/01/2008 03:04
People who believe in god need commiting

Religious types hold onto the notion of a moral code, and if you dont follow the code you are BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!

ok not bad but you won't go to heaven.

Its amazing they think religion keeps them on the moral path. What would they be doing if they didint have religion to guide them?

zaphod Posted on 04/01/2008 03:18
People who believe in god need commiting

As usual, the anti-religious have to resort to abuse & unsupported "facts".

Stalin & Mao's Marxism did not exist alongside their atheism. The foundation of Marxism is dialectical materialism, which is a particular kind of atheism. Atheism was essential to their belief system, which directly caused their behaviour. An atheist is, by definition, a materialist (i.e. everything is caused by & relates to the material world). Materialism does not provide a basis for morality, as the material world is morally neutral. If atheists have a moral code, it is not directly related to their atheism/materialism & must exist separately from their atheism. If as an atheist you have a moral code, please explain its logical basis.

As for religion flourishing under oppressive regimes etc., this is the biggest load of codswallop ever quoted on here. The largest Christian country is a democracy (USA); the largest Muslim country is a democracy (Indonesia); the largest Hindu country is a democracy (India) & the largest Buddhist country is a democracy (Thailand). The countries with the most rapid religious growth are those where religion was recently (or still is) persecuted (Russia & China).

jimborored Posted on 04/01/2008 03:19
People who believe in god need commiting

To be totally honest with you I'm S***ting myself. Because if I live by the moral code i have set myself, of not steeling, cheating, telling lies, not adulterating, murdering, taking drugs. Looking after my own, being polite to people, doing my best, giving some money to charity, helping others (especially when in need). Being true to my family. Loving my common man ( even when they make it obvious that they are complete tits) and a few others aside. IF i don't believe in God after all that. Being an atheist would no doubt stop me entering the pearly gates (which for given reasons i dont believe in. Tell me this, is living by a moral code enough for the rligious. Or will nothing suffice until you repent your sins FFS?

br14 Posted on 04/01/2008 03:22
People who believe in god need commiting

Got to agree with Zaphod up to a point.

Atheism is the rejection of the existence of some form of God and effectively removes any accountability to a "higher intelligence".

For example, isn't the primary basis for laws in the UK the Judeo Christian law code found in the Bible.

You could argue that earlier civilisations were actually rather clever when they invented religions. Without such frameworks what right does any person have to dictate how another should live?

On the other hand, "evil" generally refers to actions against the moral framework of a given religion. If we assume religions have no foundation in fact then the term has no relevance.

Therefore you could argue Stalin and Mao were neither evil nor mad. We may not want them as our neighbours and they may not conform to our social mores but we have no right to judge.

By the way, if someone has "loads of proof" for evolution, I for one would be interested. I'd particularly like to see a bunch of organic chemicals put together in a stew and watch a single celled organism start life. (Actually just watching it form spontaneously would be enough. You can skip the life bit if you want).


jimborored Posted on 04/01/2008 03:27
People who believe in god need commiting

You maybe right that Atheism is a belief. But that belief is founded on a scientific basis. Religion of every creed is founded on supposed words of men. Written well after they had died. Your entitled to your beliefs and I enjoy debating them, but I have yet to be confronted with a religious person who can argue the point without deriding the person they are confronted with.

SplendidStuff Posted on 04/01/2008 03:36
People who believe in god need commiting

"Atheism was essential to their belief system, which directly caused their behaviour. An atheist is, by definition, a materialist (i.e. everything is caused by & relates to the material world). Materialism does not provide a basis for morality, as the material world is morally neutral."

Atheism has nothing to do with materialism.

I dont base my decisions and regard for other people on materialistic ideals.

Materialism has nothing to do with being atheist. Just because i dont follow a god and religion doen't mean i worship consumerism or materialistic ways.

What a stupid statement zaphod.

br14 Posted on 04/01/2008 03:44
People who believe in god need commiting

I'm not sure belief in evolution and belief in a God are necessarily mutually exclusive, or that atheism necessarily requires a belief in evolution.

If instead of using the term God, we refer to extra terrestial beings with advanced technologies that may have had some hand in moulding human history, even Dawkins might accept that possibility.

Perhaps the "iron age" men that wrote of God were actually referring to visitors from elsewhere in our universe.

Is it unreasonable to hypothesise that there might be intelligent life somewhere in the universe that is more technologically advanced than ourselves?

jimborored Posted on 04/01/2008 03:48
People who believe in god need commiting

I watched a programme the other day. It was a religiuos programme and everyone on it was a follower of the bible. They started it off by telling everyone about the story of the Nativity and saying how many faults there was with it. They then went on to defend it by suggesting that these versions were written at least 100 to 200 years later and that therefore could not be an accurate version. We are not talking Joe Bloggs in the street here. But their defence of this was that although it wasn't an accurate description (one version says wise men, one says shepheards. etc,etc,etc.) It must be true because it was written. Now dont get me wrong, I try to tell the truth on here but sometimes like the rest of us I post things for a wind up. Not saying the bible is a wind up but..... Historians across the globe will not take anything for granted unless they have it from several different sources and it is usually written around the same time as the event that is written about. We've all watched documentaries and thought yeah but. Well for me the bible and all other religions are the same thing. You know when at the end of the documentary they usually punch a small hole in the fact that they are trying to prove (Just to make you think). Well thats all I'm doing. If you want to believe, believe. If you dont, dont! But if something I have written makes you think???? Otherwise go back to what you were doing and completely disregard what i have said. Either way i couldn't give a S***!!

And so said the messiah [;)]

zaphod Posted on 04/01/2008 04:03
People who believe in god need commiting

I think there's a misunderstanding of what materialism means. Philosophical materialism is not the same as consumerism. It is not a term of abuse.

Materialism means you believe that matter is all that exists. If you are an atheist, you reject the spiritual & supernatural and therefore you are by definition a materialist.


Link: Materialism

jimborored Posted on 04/01/2008 04:04
People who believe in god need commiting

Perhaps br, you have been using something [:D]
Perhaps these Iron age people were just trying to understand things that were completely beyond their comprehension and they decided the easiest thing to do was think of some kind of god to explain it.
"Fook me the suns come up"
"Why"
"I know because the sun god made it so"

F*** me we've had a good harvest this year"
"Why"
"Maybe its because we killed that 6 YR old girl last week"
"I know, lets kill a 6 year old virgin every time around the harvest to appease the harvest god"
"F***ing hell these Romans aren't half rough on us lot"
"What shall we do"?
"look to the bible my friend"
"F*** me this Jesus characters a good'n. All hail the messiah'
"F*** me, he's causing some chew with them romans, lets get rid"
"Poor F***er that jesus, never stood a chance, bloody romans. I hear he was the son of god you know. "
"Yeah actually that rings true. cos if he wasn't why would he give himself up for us"
"F*** me sounds good"
Roll forward a couple of hundred years.
"THE NEW TESTAMENT"

How many Messiah's do you see nowadays? Answer is you dont.

Goood night god bless [;)]

br14 Posted on 04/01/2008 04:18
People who believe in god need commiting

Just because those folk were born before we invented McDonalds burgers, doesn't mean they weren't bright jimbored.

Lot of intelligent and articulate people around pre-big Macs. Quite capable of inventing a few Gods to keep the proles under control. (Or in the case of some civilisations, entire pantheons). Even easier in the admittedly unlikely event of one or two extra-terrestials turning up to prove the point.

If I read you correctly you're saying you don't think there is intelligent life anywhere else in the universe. I wonder on what evidence you base that assumption.

zaphod Posted on 04/01/2008 04:47
People who believe in god need commiting

So, Jimbored, people weren't very bright 2,000 years ago? I think you'll find the Greek philosophers did most of their good work well over 2,000 years ago. They invented cynicism, scepticism, materialism etc. etc. If you read stuff from those centuries, you'll find that people had critical faculties just as sharp as nowadays. In fact, they did more thinking & didn't waste their time on celebs.

number9 Posted on 04/01/2008 09:37
People who believe in god need commiting

Had to get him to 150......

There has been a lot of tosh spoken on here over night but my favis about how thick people must have been in "olden times". Put your grey matter to use and read the link from a reputible source i.e britanica.


Link: the city of ur

bollockbreath Posted on 04/01/2008 17:54
People who believe in god need commiting

come off it bernie

neilg Posted on 04/01/2008 22:03
People who believe in god need commiting

dude. its wot ya say......an keep going lad!

Buddy Posted on 04/01/2008 22:29
People who believe in god need commiting

Marcus Brigstocke has had a word or two on the subject on the Now Show this year. I can't actually link the file but Google "Marcus Brigstocke religion".

HolgateCorner Posted on 04/01/2008 23:39
People who believe in god need commiting

Until scientists can answer a few fundamental questions such as.....
-where did 'matter' come from?
-what sparked the one and only time life was actually created on earth (reputed to be 4 billion odd years ago) and why has it not happened since?
-can man with all his complicated brain and nervous system, senses, vital body organs, respiratory system etc really have evolved from a few proteins/enzimes mixed up in a warm pool of sea water and, if he did, exactly how did it happen?
....I think you will find there will be a big market for the religions of the world.


YarmGirlsAreEasy Posted on 04/01/2008 23:48
People who believe in god need commiting

[:D]

The_Dude Posted on 05/01/2008 10:47
People who believe in god need commiting

I don't understand what you mean by not happend since

don't you think the planet was a tad different then, and matter than could evolve from a certain chance chemical reaction would be instantly destroyed by other bacteria that exists now, but didnt then becasue there wasnt any before to destroy it,your asking for playschool answers to questions that contain more complexity , and by the sounds of it, your level of conciousness can't grasp it.

we have no absolute certainty of what the atmospohere was like billion years ago, and if you had any done any homework, the basic building blocks, complex branch protiens can actually be manufactured in a lab with certain conditions, the fact that scientists have only being messing around with it for a few decades and evolution took billions, it not the point to you is it, your asking for a sort of ready meal answer

as for man having complexity,you obviously nothing whatsoever about evolution do you?

oh and again, because there is no 100% answer, just about 99% , the probablity of a god, who is even more improbable, just becomes 100%, yet without any evidence whatsoever



painfullyboro Posted on 05/01/2008 11:08
People who believe in god need commiting

well here we go again Evolution for dummies.

within the void of space there are many chemical elements 12 of which are needed to support and create life. also within the void of space there are cetain variants in density (along with some on here ) this can create what is commonly nown as a black hole.
a black hole can create a vortex into which any neaby elements will be suck inside over a billion years or so the black hole will become full in implode on its self spitting all of theses elements into th void of space in no particular order luckily for us they formed a chemical reaction which resulted in the formation of the earth and life itself.

i hoped that helped and i know that not all will agree but lets face it religion and a supreme being JA JOKIN ARNT YA.

Blain87 Posted on 05/01/2008 13:42
People who believe in god need commiting

So Dude, in your last post you have admitted there is a probability that there is a god.

Given there is a probablity and You have offered no conclusive proof there isn't a God, how can you justify saying people who believe there is a god need 'commiting'?

Pogatetz_Ate_My_Hamster Posted on 05/01/2008 13:45
People who believe in god need commiting

If there was a 'god' howcome theres so many different gods and religions?

You can't all be right!

onthemap Posted on 05/01/2008 13:46
People who believe in god need commiting

painfullyboro
You do know that everyone on here can also read Wiki, and that everything you posted is no more thatn a current theory?

Blain87 Posted on 05/01/2008 13:47
People who believe in god need commiting

Granted there is no definite proof of God. There's no proof of Extra Terrestrial Life. But should we rule out the possibility and commit anybody who thinks there is something out there?

zaphod Posted on 05/01/2008 13:53
People who believe in god need commiting

There is no contradiction between God & evolution. The high probability that we've worked out in broad terms how the mechanics of evolution work does not disprove the existence of God. All that does is show how God did it, if he exists.

Obviously not all religions can be right. That does not mean they are all wrong. It's a multiple choice question & you score zero for ticking the wrong box.

HolgateCorner Posted on 05/01/2008 13:54
People who believe in god need commiting

Dude and painfullyboro - I got a bit bored with your laboriously detailed replies.

I suggest you take a more 'helicopter' view of things.

Science is nowhere near having the answers. That may change in future but at present it's all postulation and theory.

Anyway, sorry I cast doubt on your points of view by asking a few pertinent questions.

davo44 Posted on 05/01/2008 13:57
People who believe in god need commiting

I find this thread offensive. If it was about muslims or allah itd have been pulled by now. I demand admin remove it fortwith as it is an affront to civilised and christian people

onthemap Posted on 05/01/2008 14:27
People who believe in god need commiting

Darwinists reason that at least one spontaneous generation of life event must have occurred in the distant past.

That's frankly more incredible than the God theory.

painfullyboro Posted on 05/01/2008 14:41
People who believe in god need commiting

The post was placed for the basic lifeforms on this board in hope they get a basic understanding of the said theory instead of living a life following a supposed "god" that built the world on his own in seven days and watches over us all but does nothing

onthemap Posted on 05/01/2008 14:49
People who believe in god need commiting

They're both 100% unproven theories you clown.

HolgateCorner Posted on 05/01/2008 15:07
People who believe in god need commiting

onthemap has hit the nail on the head.

The scientific theories are often more incredible than the religious 'stories'.


theboydom Posted on 05/01/2008 15:13
People who believe in god need commiting

...and he built the world in a lot less that 7 days n'all, or were you reading the slow version of the genesis story off wiki? [;)].

The_Dude Posted on 05/01/2008 15:19
People who believe in god need commiting

no, i did not ant ay stage admit there is a probability of god

what ever indeed that sentence actually means, because its gibberish, i can only assume that because you have misunderstood my point completely, you mean possibility of god, well, without any evidence , and litterally million of tonnes of evolutionary evidence, i'm afarid i have to apply the common sense rational side of my brain, and let the people with a deluded outlook on life poetically invent there own gods, as and when it suits.

and zaphods point about god creating evolution, it goes to to the point of who created god, the whole creationalism concept is silly for this stupidly overlooked reason, yes, god magically created evolution, fannied about with slime and docile unintelligent reptiles for 3 billion years, then made us

clowns

painfullyboro Posted on 05/01/2008 15:26
People who believe in god need commiting

on the the map you missid the point again wont waste time explaining you numb nut as for wiki its people like you that site was created most of us dont need it to understand basic physics

ThePrisoner Posted on 05/01/2008 15:28
People who believe in god need commiting

"onthemap has hit the nail on the head.

The scientific theories are often more incredible than the religious 'stories'."

If only people could grasp even the basics of science and what a scientific theory is, they would see how ridiculous that statement is.

onthemap Posted on 05/01/2008 15:33
People who believe in god need commiting

painfullyboro
There's probably a thread somewhere about Juninhos favourite crisps that you'll be able to follow.

To those who seem to have evidence of Abiogenesis as a science, please answer:

As it's widely acknowledged by Darwinists that at least one spontaneous generation of life event must have occurred in the distant past.
Why is that no more incredible than the God theory?

mailinator Posted on 05/01/2008 15:36
People who believe in god need commiting

"For me the sheer diversity of life disproves evolution"

What a F***ing ridiculous thing to say!

Also, people may scoff at the ideas or theories put forward by scientists but at least they are open to be revised unlike religion which says "this is the truth and that's it"

painfullyboro Posted on 05/01/2008 15:42
People who believe in god need commiting

on the map if there is a thread about gifted brazilians and crisps you probebly startrd it and would argue the point with anyone daring to disagree with you

onthemap Posted on 05/01/2008 15:43
People who believe in god need commiting

They're disproven theories that's why, disproven by the very scientists that put them forward.
As molecular biology has progressed it's now at the point where the very plausibility of a naturalistic origin of life is outside the realm of probability.

Scientists have yet to discover a single molecule that has “learned to make copies of itself” which is why they now discuss Panspermia.

ThePrisoner Posted on 05/01/2008 15:44
People who believe in god need commiting

"As it's widely acknowledged by Darwinists that at least one spontaneous generation of life event must have occurred in the distant past.
Why is that no more incredible than the God theory?"

Because you are trying to explain a complex, rare event with an even more complex, unlikely explanation.


onthemap Posted on 05/01/2008 15:48
People who believe in god need commiting

Prisoner there's nothing rare about spontaneous generation of life, put very simply it's 100% unproven.

Two theories neither with a shred of proven scientific research.

hogg1234 Posted on 05/01/2008 15:49
People who believe in god need commiting

Mappy speak in laymans language as I have lost the will to live with these big words.
I was enjoying the discussions but now I can't understand them.
Complex!!! f.uck me you not joking!

king_hellfire Posted on 05/01/2008 15:49
People who believe in god need commiting

According to this bloke the christians saved America from a possible nuclear attack.


'Robertson also noted that one especially horrible prediction he made last year -- that a terrorist act, possibly involving a nuclear weapon, would result in a mass killing in the United States -- did not come to pass.


"All I can think is that somehow the people of God prayed and God in his mercy spared us," Robertson said.'







Link: God talks to him but not us? Hmmm.

The_Dude Posted on 05/01/2008 15:54
People who believe in god need commiting

I can't really be arsed to keep continually speaking sense, so ill just say this

the most intelligent people in the world, scientists and mathematicians are atheists, bring your own conclusions to that

br14 Posted on 05/01/2008 16:04
People who believe in god need commiting

I think you'll find most are agnostic. Any other position is illogical.

onthemap Posted on 05/01/2008 16:04
People who believe in god need commiting

Ok Hogg

Basically when scientists tried to prove the theory that we all evolved from some kind of soup like chemical consisting of the Earths basic compounds, they put forward these theories prior to the discovery of DNA and just how complex DNA actually is.
As the science has advanced, the theory that somehow these basic chemicals could simply combine to form life is now recognised as completely implausible.
Somewhere along the line, the scientists argue, there has to have been a spontaneous generation of life event and that's as ridiculous as the theory that God created it all.

The scientist are now arguing that perhaps the building blocks necessary for this creation came to Earth inside meteorites, as they couldn't possibly have evolved from the simple compounds here.
That theory is called Panspermia, but all it does is move the same question to another planet.

theboydom Posted on 05/01/2008 16:11
People who believe in god need commiting

am i allowed to use dialectical materialist as a new form of insult on this board now when these theological threads get out of hand? benedict don't like it either as it forms part of liberation theology. dangerous stuff, yer genuinely wild dialectical materialism out in the open....

btw zaphod, keep plugging away but remember matthew 7:6 [;)]

the dudes comment about

Blain87 Posted on 05/01/2008 16:18
People who believe in god need commiting

Dude

Did you not say: "the probablity of a god, who is even more improbable"? Read carefylly. U did.

By saying the existence of god is 'improbably' and not 'impossible', you acknowledge there is a possibility.

So I ask you again, How can you justify "commiting" people who believe in something, which you cant disprove?

Please answer the question, instead of quoting some more scientific 'theory'

onthemap Posted on 05/01/2008 16:22
People who believe in god need commiting

Blain
Because like every other man on the planet he can't.

king_hellfire Posted on 05/01/2008 16:24
People who believe in god need commiting

onthemap, have a look at this site, it starts out like this...


A primordial protoplasmic globule

So the calculation goes that the probability of forming a given 300 amino acid long protein (say an enzyme like carboxypeptidase) randomly is (1/20)(to the power of)300 or 1 chance in 2.04 x 10(to the power of)390, which is astoundingly, mind-beggaringly improbable. This is then cranked up by adding on the probabilities of generating 400 or so similar enzymes until a figure is reached that is so huge that merely contemplating it causes your brain to dribble out your ears. This gives the impression that the formation of even the smallest organism seems totally impossible. However, this is completely incorrect...

Then it goes into more detail as to why it's incorrect.It may help you answer any questions you might have.


ThePrisoner Posted on 05/01/2008 16:25
People who believe in god need commiting

"Prisoner there's nothing rare about spontaneous generation of life, put very simply it's 100% unproven.

Two theories neither with a shred of proven scientific research."

We know that life has evolved from very simple unicellular forms to the complex life-forms we see today. So we are left with the choice of abiogenesis, or a supernatural entity of inconcievable complexity (remember he is allegedly looking after every atom in the universe not just the speck of dust we live on) whose own existence is unexplained as the origin of life. Which one is more likely?


hogg1234 Posted on 05/01/2008 16:26
People who believe in god need commiting

Cheers mate, that may explain some of the starwars type bars I've been in!

king_hellfire Posted on 05/01/2008 16:28
People who believe in god need commiting

Sorry, i forgot to add the link.


Link: abiogenesis

Blain87 Posted on 05/01/2008 16:30
People who believe in god need commiting

Im not asking him to prove or disprove the existence of God.

It simply cannot be done.

I would just like to know how The_Dude would justify committing people who believe in God.

Would also be interesting to hear his opinion on people who believe there is Extra Terrestrial life in the universe?

The_Dude Posted on 05/01/2008 16:31
People who believe in god need commiting

the basis of your argument is believing in something simply because it can't be disproven, now , in that sense, you are automatically and quite comically putting god at a 50/50 probabilty, simply because you can't dissprove it, well you obviously go along the lines of believing in santa claus, goblins, fairys and dragons because using your same stupid logic then there is a possibility of anything, and like i said, if you want to live in fantasy land, thats fine , just dont ctriticse me for having the conciousness to actually believe what i see, touch and smell, and percieve as reality, if you like the idea of stupidly believing in something without a shred of evidence to back you up, then pray away


onthemap Posted on 05/01/2008 16:34
People who believe in god need commiting

"We know that life has evolved from very simple unicellular forms to the complex life-forms we see today."

We don't, we haven't a clue.
Not one clear transitional protein that is morphologically and chemically in between the ancient and modern form of the protein has been remotely demonstrated.

The_Dude Posted on 05/01/2008 16:37
People who believe in god need commiting

why dont we have a debate about a cream cake fondant bun orbiting around one of saturns rings and call it the blainuncertainty principle, you cant dissprove it isn't, so lets believe it

jeez

Blain87 Posted on 05/01/2008 16:37
People who believe in god need commiting

Again, dodging the question.

Justify committing people who believe in God. You cant.

I don't put the chances of a God existing at 50/50. Where have I said 'theres just as much chance of him existing as not' or 'its 50/50' ? For the record if I had to chose one side or the other I'd say there is no God. But if given the option I will not rule it out. I dont rule out the possibility of dragons or faeries or goblins either. I dont give them much chance of existing but cant say 100% they arent out there. Have you seen the far reaches of the universe? Has anybody?

I just don't like your initial statement that people should be committed for believing and will defend their right to believe in a force for good.

So I ask AGAIN, can You rationalise committing religious people?

The_Dude Posted on 05/01/2008 16:41
People who believe in god need commiting

onethemap

on thoughts of your own on the matter or are you just going to plagurise internet web pages


Link: plagurism

ThePrisoner Posted on 05/01/2008 16:41
People who believe in god need commiting

" "We know that life has evolved from very simple unicellular forms to the complex life-forms we see today."

We don't, we haven't a clue.
Not one clear transitional protein that is morphologically and chemically in between the ancient and modern form of the protein has been remotely demonstrated."


Are you seriously asserting that current large animal life forms did not evolve from much simpler unicellular forms? Wow.

I was waiting for the 'no-transitions' argument to come up! As you will be well aware many 'transitional' life forms exist in the fossil record. I think the last one I heard about was about twop weeks ago (whale vestigal hands). Of course 'transitional' is not a very good word because life is one continuum.

ThePrisoner Posted on 05/01/2008 16:44
People who believe in god need commiting

Speaking of ridiculous possibilities what is the probability of taking a regular deck of cards and dealing all four aces and three of the kings from the deck one after the other? Anyone?

The_Dude Posted on 05/01/2008 16:46
People who believe in god need commiting

'I dont rule out the possibility of dragons or faeries or goblins'

I think its you who needs commiting, beliver or not

Blain87 Posted on 05/01/2008 16:50
People who believe in god need commiting

4*3*2*4*3*2 divided by (52*51*50*49*48*47*46)

something like that

onthemap Posted on 05/01/2008 16:50
People who believe in god need commiting

Dude I can come up with pages for the opposite if you like, it doesn't change the fact that you're just dodging questions now.

Basically when scientists tried to prove the theory that we all evolved from some kind of soup like chemical consisting of the Earths basic compounds, they put forward these theories prior to the discovery of DNA and just how complex DNA actually is.
As the science has advanced, the theory that somehow these basic chemicals could simply combine to form life is now recognised as completely implausible.
Somewhere along the line, the scientists argue, there has to have been a spontaneous generation of life event and that's as ridiculous as the theory that God created it all.

The scientist are now arguing that perhaps the building blocks necessary for this creation came to Earth inside meteorites, as they couldn't possibly have evolved from the simple compounds here.
That theory is called Panspermia, but all it does is move the same question to another planet.

That's giving you a problem?


king_hellfire Posted on 05/01/2008 16:53
People who believe in god need commiting

onthemap, the person who is the source for your comment

'Not one clear transitional protein that is morphologically and chemically in between the ancient and modern form of the protein has been remotely demonstrated.


is a little biased don't you think?

His name is Jerry Bergman and he is a Young Earth Creationist.

Blain87 Posted on 05/01/2008 16:54
People who believe in god need commiting

So I take it you would like to apologize to all religious people for your thoughtless statement in the opening post, Dude?

hogg1234 Posted on 05/01/2008 16:55
People who believe in god need commiting

1-2 there may be some believers now!!!!

ThePrisoner Posted on 05/01/2008 16:56
People who believe in god need commiting

Uhoh. God is stopping atheists from posting more messages.

Re the cards I thought the probability was
1/52 x 1/52 x 1/50 x 1/49 x 1/48 x 1/47 x 1/46 which equals one in 3.2E13
(3.2 times 10 with 13 zeros)

This is very unlikely and if I did the same for all 52 cards then the probability would be so mind-bogglingly small that it would be effectively impossible for 52 cards to ever be dealt.
Therefore, God exists [:D]

king_hellfire Posted on 05/01/2008 17:12
People who believe in god need commiting

' the theory that somehow these basic chemicals could simply combine to form life is now recognised as completely implausible.'


Yes onthemap, it does seem completely implausible, i posted words to that effect in my post earlier, here it is again...



So the calculation goes that the probability of forming a given 300 amino acid long protein (say an enzyme like carboxypeptidase) randomly is (1/20)(to the power of)300 or 1 chance in 2.04 x 10(to the power of)390, which is ASTOUNDINGLY, MIND-BEGGARINGLY IMPROBABLE. This is then cranked up by adding on the probabilities of generating 400 or so similar enzymes until a figure is reached that is so huge that merely contemplating it causes your brain to dribble out your ears. This gives the impression that the formation of even the smallest organism seems totally IMPOSSIBLE. However, this is completely incorrect...


Like i said earlier, take a look at the site and perhaps it will explain any questions you might have.



Link: abiogenesis explained....again

king_hellfire Posted on 05/01/2008 17:22
People who believe in god need commiting

Here is an alternative to the excellent, Over Three Hundred Proofs of God’s Existence website.


Over Three Hundred Disproofs Of...


Link: God’s Existence.

Blain87 Posted on 05/01/2008 18:54
People who believe in god need commiting

Prisoner, we are both wrong.

The probability = 8/52*7/51*6/50*5/49*4/48*3/47*2/46

Because on the turn of the first card there are 52 options and 8 would be satisfactoy cards(4 aces and 4 kings). Thereafter the number of possibilities and correct cards reduces by 1. But this could change depending on the order in which the aces and kings came out I think.

Don't know what that would amount to. Very little.

ThePrisoner Posted on 05/01/2008 19:38
People who believe in god need commiting

"Prisoner, we are both wrong.

The probability = 8/52*7/51*6/50*5/49*4/48*3/47*2/46

Because on the turn of the first card there are 52 options and 8 would be satisfactoy cards(4 aces and 4 kings). Thereafter the number of possibilities and correct cards reduces by 1. But this could change depending on the order in which the aces and kings came out I think.

Don't know what that would amount to. Very little."

It amounts to 1 in 262,000,000. That's not so bad!

My calculation was based on dealing cards in a particular order
i.e. Ace of spades only first, then ace of hearts only second etc.

Blain87 Posted on 05/01/2008 19:43
People who believe in god need commiting

Hae you seen the Hold'em hand that Daniel Craig wins the tournament in Casino Royale with?

Whats the odds of that hand taking place?

ThePrisoner Posted on 05/01/2008 19:47
People who believe in god need commiting

No haven't seen it. I have a mate who is a professional poker player and he goes on about flip-flops and percentages and all sorts. I just nod.

Blain87 Posted on 05/01/2008 19:49
People who believe in god need commiting

lol

I think he might be talking about a flop

I think the odds would be about 50 to the power of 13

ridiuclous

HolgateCorner Posted on 05/01/2008 22:44
People who believe in god need commiting

So which is the most incredible:-

....On the 7th day God created man....or...

.....about 1 billion years after having a big bang the scientific community created life out of a very rare event involving a few carbon molecules in a warm pool of sea water which 4 billion years later evolved into a man....

I think it's a toss up (by the way that's a probability of 1 in 2).

SplendidStuff Posted on 05/01/2008 22:57
People who believe in god need commiting

Holgate, how did the scientific community create life 1 billion years after the big bang if man was another 4billion years later??

Just going off what you said.

Blain87 Posted on 05/01/2008 22:59
People who believe in god need commiting

the non-living scientific community, made up of God, Mother nature and the tooth fairy. Cant rule it out :-D

HolgateCorner Posted on 06/01/2008 00:29
People who believe in god need commiting

Good point splendidsuff, I should have argued that one differently.

I'm disappointed that the scientific community on here haven't come up with much on this one though. I thought the anti God people would have been bursting with plenty of good logical arguments about universe creation, ancient sulphuric acid environments, self replicating cells, DNA, single sex organisms, evolution, natural selection, dinosaur bones etc etc

A very poor performance by the atheists.... or are they relying too much on scientific fairy stories?

The fact is that no-one (yet) can say what sparked it all off.

richboro Posted on 06/01/2008 00:35
People who believe in god need commiting

Interesting, however consider this.

There is theoretically 4 possible outcomes when you die whether you believe in God or not. Those who believe in God generally worship on a regular basis, and those who do not believe do not worship. (The following is based on my little understanding of the Christian faith)

1. You do not believe in God, and God doesn't exist.
You spend your life doing what you want, you don't worship and do not believe in God. When you die, you simply die for eternity.

2. You do not believe in God, and God does exist.
You spend your life doing what you want, you don't worship and do not believe in God. However when you die, there are consequences and you may spend the rest of eternity in a 'hell' of some sort. However if you lived your life well helping others, you may still go to a 'heaven' or a place created by Jesus for those who believe. I believe this is known as the day of judgement.

3. You believe in God, but God doesn't exist.
You spend your life attending meetings of worship on a regular basis. The majority of Christians live very good lives, helping others. However, when you die you are just dead. The fact that you spent 2 or 3 hours a week attending worship does not matter, as you cease to exist. You have lived a good life.

4. You believe in God, and God doesn't exist.
You spend your life going regularly to worship. You help others throughout your life and you live a good life. When you die, you go to heaven etc and life a prosperus afterlife where you are happy in some form for eternity.

Basically, your better of believing in God or being part of religion of some sort, as the large majority of religions *ahem* believe in peace and wellbeing unto others.

That is all!
If there is any mistakes, I apologise i'm knackered.

ThePrisoner Posted on 06/01/2008 00:43
People who believe in god need commiting

Try on your love
Like a new dress
The fit and the cut
Your friends to impress
Try on your smile -
Square on your face
Showing affection
Should be no disgrace
Try out your God
Hope He will send
Kindness from strangers
On whom you depend
Try on His coat
A mantle most fine
Myriad colours
His harmony-thine
Believe in me
Once seemed a good line
Now belief in Jesus
Is faith more sublime
Head in the clouds
But I can´t see the Lord
Short of perfection
I´ll try to be good
I´ll stand at His gate
I´ll wait for His sign
Then I´ll walk in His garden
When it´s my time
Drink from His cup
Hush now don´t you cry
His quiet waters
Will never, never run dry
Nearing death´s vale
He´s here by my side
He leads me to paradise
A mountain so high


Don´t be afraid
Just treasure His word
Singing His praises
I know that I´ll be heard
He´s gonna take you by the hand
He´s gonna make you feel so good
Open up your eyes
And then you´ll see all that you should
Forget all your troubles
You will feel no pain
He´s all that you need
He´s your everything
When I´m feeling all at sea
Deliverance is that distant shore
I will not be worried
Someday His house will be my home
For ever more!

YarmGirlsAreEasy Posted on 06/01/2008 00:48
People who believe in god need commiting

Jesus loves you.[:D]

SplendidStuff Posted on 06/01/2008 00:52
People who believe in god need commiting

"peace and wellbeing unto others."

Interesting concept.

But me being a non believer must do evil i guess, and thats what you have, polar opposites.

Now why would a god if one existed demand that you believe in them when they provide no proof. If i lead a good life without conforming to religion does that make me the opposite of a religious person in the sense that i wont go to heaven.

And if you believe in heaven then you must believe in the devil right?

If you think that you goto heaven if you conform one way, then surely there is another outcome should you choose the opposite?

YarmGirlsAreEasy Posted on 06/01/2008 00:57
People who believe in god need commiting

I assume you are speaking in tongues?[:D]

br14 Posted on 06/01/2008 00:59
People who believe in god need commiting


richboro Posted on 06/01/2008 01:14
People who believe in god need commiting

I'm agnostic, ie I would like the idea of God to exist, however sometimes I have doubts but I'm only 17!
I don't not believe in God, neither do I believe in God.

"and thats what you have, polar opposites."
I don't know if I mentioned this in my post, but from my understanding, those who live a life helping others but do not want to conform to religion are sent to a "Realm of Eternity" when they die on earth. Here they wait until the day of judgement where they are judged by God on how they lived their life.

Therefore, a human being who does not want to conform to religion, but is helpful and kind to others, will continue with those who lived a life of faith to the place where Jesus has created.

Yes, I do believe in the Devil. If you believe in GOd, you believe in the Devil. Earth is not run by God, neither is it 'run' by the devil but the Devil is allowed (by God) to do what he/she/it/whatever wants. Therefore, this 'tests' those who believe in faith. If there was no Devil or no evil in the world, we would all simply be robots following God in daily life.


Grumpy_Paul Posted on 06/01/2008 02:06
People who believe in god need commiting

All this, on a football related message board, impressive [:D]

For the record, I'm an old catholic alter boy who was subjected to the brainwashing of the 60s & 70s. All I know is that 5 bob (25p) for a wedding kept me in fags and sweeties.

Joking aside, I haven't a clue what to believe.

I reckon if you are pro science then you are still searching for the answers, if you are religous then you are depending on faith, faith in the teachings that you hold dear.

Respect to both sides of the arguement, keep an open mind.

_Sal_ Posted on 06/01/2008 02:20
People who believe in god need commiting

''In the darkest hour, any atheist half believes''

Frank Gallagher
Chatsworth Estate
Manchester.

Grumpy_Paul Posted on 06/01/2008 02:27
People who believe in god need commiting

Isn't Chatsworth in Derbyshire?

Gunnerhooky Posted on 06/01/2008 02:30
People who believe in god need commiting

Yeah Chatsworth is in Derbyshire and Gallagher is a pop star.[:)]

br14 Posted on 06/01/2008 03:07
People who believe in god need commiting

Nothing to lose.

Gunnerhooky Posted on 06/01/2008 03:09
People who believe in god need commiting

Whose got nothing to loose?

br14 Posted on 06/01/2008 03:15
People who believe in god need commiting

Atheists about to die. Might as well give God a chance. I suppose if they do they cease to be atheists.

Gunnerhooky Posted on 06/01/2008 03:22
People who believe in god need commiting

Atheists are believers by default. If there is no God by admitting they do not believe in him must believe his none existance therefore that is a belief. Now just that belief a name.
Lets call it God. [;)]

br14 Posted on 06/01/2008 03:24
People who believe in god need commiting

Go up a couple hundred posts and I think you'll find that ones already been tried.

These endless Creation vs Evolution posts really are trying.

Two sets of believers going at it like old boxers. Giving it all they've got and never landing a punch.

boroman Posted on 06/01/2008 03:27
People who believe in god need commiting

'In the darkest hour, any atheist half believes'

Not so Frank - I don't (yet) :)


Link: My Life, Myeloma

Gunnerhooky Posted on 06/01/2008 03:33
People who believe in god need commiting

I get dizzy if I go up too far. The logic speaks for itself.
Creation as is being proved more and more was a fluke.
Thats why we will not have any alien visiters.
*Grabs coat quickly as white beam focused on pc seemed weird*

neilg Posted on 06/01/2008 06:29
People who believe in god need commiting

if god created man.where did she go wrong?

zaphod Posted on 06/01/2008 11:11
People who believe in god need commiting

I find the idea of committing about 5 billion people an interesting logistical challenge. Better to commit the tiny number of atheists to protect them from the crazed believers!

neilg Posted on 06/01/2008 11:13
People who believe in god need commiting

for christs sake god help us and get us a couple of strikers!

number9 Posted on 06/01/2008 14:20
People who believe in god need commiting

i just love this post its always great to watch them degenerate into verbal abuse.....

i think it's even more enlightening to watch the evolutionists resort to evolutionary apartheid. After all the majority of the earth 6 billion people believe in some sort of god. Evolutionists make up less than 2% of the Earths population yet insist that everyone else follow there creed?

I was taught the below as fact at school. Kinda makes you smile no?



Link: link

ThePrisoner Posted on 06/01/2008 14:56
People who believe in god need commiting

"i just love this post its always great to watch them degenerate into verbal abuse.....

i think it's even more enlightening to watch the evolutionists resort to evolutionary apartheid. After all the majority of the earth 6 billion people believe in some sort of god. Evolutionists make up less than 2% of the Earths population yet insist that everyone else follow there creed?

I was taught the below as fact at school. Kinda makes you smile no?
"

A hoax skull proves evolution wrong? Kinda makes me embarrassed at your pride in your own ignorance.

bollockbreath Posted on 06/01/2008 15:05
People who believe in god need commiting

Hold my tongue there's nothing I can say to you
You tie me up with words
You tie me up with words
I'm so lost you say that you'd pray for me
You'd smother me with words
You'd smother me with words
They turned your story all around
They had you free when you were bound
They raised you up when you were down
They raised you high

I believe someone's watching over me
I believe in the dreams that set you free

You're so strong it really is a mystery
You give your power away
You give your power away
Why be a song when you can a symphony
Don't give your power away
Don't give your power away

I believe
I believe we are free to be chained
To be slaves, to be chained or to be free

I believe someone's watching over me
I believe in the dreams that set you free
I believe


number9 Posted on 06/01/2008 15:18
People who believe in god need commiting

ThePrisoner I guess all that rogering youv'e had to take in the scrubs has removed your tongue in cheek monitor? Or has your tongue been in some other cheek in the scrubs?

TheSmogMonster Posted on 06/01/2008 16:25
People who believe in god need commiting

To be honest the evolution vs religion fight is so one sided that only the most fundementalist christian types even bother to argue it. The internet has merely given them more prominance then they would have got 50 years ago.

Even groups such as the Catholic church are now no longer arguing evolution didn't take place, insisting now that its gods special intervention that makes us special or that god creates through evolution.

The other side of it is that many creationists are just fanboy debaters, who don't understand science, can't be bothered to learn, sit and quote lies (knowingly or unknowingly), spout crap such as "my feelings are" and make up things in an altogether unchristian manner, arguing semantics to prove the existance of a god of which there is no proof.

The truth is, this has been done to death on this board over the years and the christian peusdo-scientists have never put forward a single piece of evidence that competes or contradicts the fossil record, observed scientific data or the work of thousands of scientists with a collectively vast knowledge of the field.

So the fight was lost generations ago. You can either move on and accept that your books written a few hundred years ago (or thousands depending on the edition) don't have all the answers, or you can shout at the tide to stay out.


Link: Nice link to finish with

Posted on 06/01/2008 16:34
People who believe in god need commiting

Zaphod's argument that the liquidation of religious worshippers is at the heart of dialectical materialism is not only laughable but it also betrays a clunky mechanistic cartoon logic that is almost embarrassing.

Stalin => claimed to be a Marxist => killed people (some of who may have been Christians) =>therefore all Marxists have killing Christians at the heart of their beliefs.

That is ludicrous. What about Franco => Catholic => garotted trade unionists => therefore all Catholics want to kill trade unionists? Or Hitler => Christian =>gassed the jews (Gott Mit Uns) => therefore all Christians are planning a holocaust.

That kind of thinking is embarrassing. It is almost medieval. And it must be said far removed from the usual stuff you come out with which is generally under-pinned by some sophisticated notions.

Almost as ridiculous is the idea that atheists are devoid of any morality just because they don't subscribe to some mystical higher authority. How arrogant can you get?

Setting aside for a second the question of whether the morality of organised religions who have backed countless wars, ethnic cleansing, genocide, slavery, despotic regimes, colonisation and the oppression of women at various points in the not so distant past is really any kind of just model, the whole idea that others do not have equally well worked out codes in their life is barmy.

Religion is one way of answering the big questions in life, but it is not the only one. Likewise, basing your personal conduct around the teachings of a long dead hippy is a viable way but again,not the only one.

Morality is not produced in a vaccuum. It is socially produced. The way Christians theoretically conduct themselves now is not the way they always did. Not so long ago the great and good of congregations of every stripe supported capital and corporal punishment, slavery and child labour for instance and actually opposed those godless athiests, socialists and other miscreant who campaigned against these things on the grounds.

There has been much talk on here about how Christians help the poor and run soap kitchens and whatnot as if that is the norm. It isn't. Most people in this country who espouse a belief in God are greedy, selfish and indifferent to the suffering of others.

There are Christians who are good people. But they do not have a monopoly. There are also a lot of communists, atheists, humanists, moslems, sikhs, jews doing the same good works. People of all faiths and none are equally capable of good works, although not all see it cynically as a way of racking up points on the God Loyalty Card in order to gain entry to the exclusive Heaven club and as a vehicle to look down on others.

The important thing is how you conduct yourself towards your fellow man. Give me an atheist who treats other people with respect and dignity and accepts that he has responsibilities within society and a contribution to make over a sanctimonious hypocrite who is selfish and greedy and supports a system based on the global exploitation of others all week but believes themselves redeemed because of one hour on a Sunday.

borobadge Posted on 06/01/2008 16:35
People who believe in god need commiting

hallelujah, hallelujah.

Scrote Posted on 06/01/2008 17:19
People who believe in god need commiting

theprisoner, the_dude et al

i wasn't going to bother on this thread 'cos its just a rehash of all the other similar threads with the same bolx spouted by the same people from both sides and neither set will ever actually listen to what the other is saying

however the idea that life evolved spontaneously and evoloved to produce everything we see around us is all nice and rational until we get to DNA

perry marshall has used information theory to 'prove' that DNA could not have come into existence by itself - link below

come back when you've proved perry marshall wrong to the satisfaction everyone on the infidels message board [;)]

ps- i don't agree with everything on that site - there are a few bits that are easily countered but the main message i.e. information in DNA as a code is the one i'm asking for proof against




Link: atheist\'s riddle

onthemap Posted on 06/01/2008 17:24
People who believe in god need commiting

Scote
In short, both sides haven't really got a clue.

ThePrisoner Posted on 06/01/2008 17:37
People who believe in god need commiting

Scrote. I've trawled enough 'intelligent design' sites to know not to bother wasting my time on Mr Marshall's though this snippet did give me a laugh.

"The same communication technology that gave us our modern digital age shows that language is proof of the existence of God, and that all evolution is driven by intelligent processes"

So next time you download some porn say a little prayer to Jeebus!

Scrote Posted on 06/01/2008 17:39
People who believe in god need commiting

i wouldn't be that harsh mappy - the main problem as i see it is that people get fixated upon one particular aspect of their argument and ignore anything that appears to be off to one side - e.g. the difference between natural selection based on fitness for purpose and evolution based on genetic mutation (as a simple but contrived example before anyone kicks off!)

i'm on the God side of the fence and i've given up trying to correct atheists who tell me what i believe based on what they've read some other athiest saying about what i believe - the fact they won't listen to me when i tell them what i do actually believe means any argument i make is rejected based on their pre-conceived notions

i'm sure it works the other way too - especially in the 'atheists have no morality' arguments and such-like

if people would just listen to each other the world would be a better place [:D]

Scrote Posted on 06/01/2008 17:43
People who believe in god need commiting

the point in my last post proven so admirably by thePrisoner

"i don't want my position challenged so i won't read it"

whilst the theory does touch on intelligent design (one of the areas i disagree with fundy Christians in general) it is not a theory OF intelligent design - rather that DNA proves the existence of a creator more than anything else that we know about

if you are never going to read anything that proposes 'intelligent design' then how can you purport to argue against any faith from a position of knowledge?

or should i base my arguments for God on the scientific FACTS from the 14th Century?

number9 Posted on 06/01/2008 17:46
People who believe in god need commiting

Well said scrote. DNA is the evolutionist nightmare. Now wait till they try to explain why 95% of our dna is "junk dna". the further you look into "Life" the more improberable evolution becomes.

That said I'm now bored with this thread and the endless "google & wiki quotes" and wish I'd never given it a boost.


Link: linky

Scrote Posted on 06/01/2008 17:57
People who believe in god need commiting

number9 - you are just doing the same thing as thePrisoner but from the opposite side of the argument

what is the point of saying "yah-boo-sucks! you can't prove that tiny bit of your argument so you lose" when there is so much more that DOES make the evolution argument a very strong one

Jesus didn't wander round telling everyone they were wrong he just asked them to give him the benefit of the doubt enough to listen

if you force everyone to put up artificial barriers to God are you not just as bad as the devil tempting them towards other evils?

TheSmogMonster Posted on 06/01/2008 18:19
People who believe in god need commiting

DNA is not a problem for science. I've never heard such a daft thing.

For example. It's widely believed its come from the ecoding of simler RNA, (which I can't see any mention of on that website Scrote), which DNA gradually evolved from. The website also completely ignores that DNA mutations don't destroy existing information in the same way his computer code does. In essence all he's done is prove he can write a code that destroys another code.

Now to be honest science can't do this today doesn't mean science won't be able to do this tommorow, and I say DNA is a bigger problem for creationism, because its existance and mechanisms prove evolution. You can't believe in one and not the other, as DNA mutatable nature is remarkably inconsistant with the 'eternalness' argument.

I've got to say, I thought that website was a micky take... its not actually totally serious is it?

Scrote Posted on 06/01/2008 18:51
People who believe in god need commiting

theSmogMonster - as per my original post - its not my theory so telling me you've disproved it is rather pointless - go on the infidels website and post your easy disproof there and wallow in the gratitude of the other posters who've been struggling since 2005

the fact that even on there they are still discussing it (and going over ground already pointed out as false by PM) shows it is not as easy as you seem to believe

i'm not suggesting that it is true and i certainly don't think it is the final solution to the evolution/God debate but it is interesting none-the-less and to just discard it out of hand says more about your unwillingness to listen than anything else

number9 Posted on 06/01/2008 18:52
People who believe in god need commiting

Well of course you are right scrote....... but comparing me to "the devil" is a bit harsh... Someone once said that the best trick old nick ever pulled was to convince people he did not exsist,, but thats another debate.

in my defence I was being tongue in cheek as this type of debate bores that pants off me and i get my kicks from people like smogmonster. To be honest I really don't care what other people believe as it has zero effect on my belief. i posted when this thread was at about 20 and stimulated it up to 100, maybe it will make 300?

I do get annoyed at googled wiki quotes and people who know less to nothing about the bible and what it acctually says against what they think it says, but thats an all new debate.

ThePrisoner Posted on 06/01/2008 19:00
People who believe in god need commiting




Link: In fact I will

number9 Posted on 06/01/2008 19:01
People who believe in god need commiting

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Dawkins zzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Posted on 06/01/2008 22:20
People who believe in god need commiting

"in my defence I was being tongue in cheek as this type of debate bores that pants off me and i get my kicks from people like smogmonster."

You get your kicks from four posts on a message board? Thats pretty sad fella. Are you sure you're not number9point5? Nice big hint singling out me after I upset 'him'('?') so much on rivals.

Scrote.. I've just had a read of the thread in question and its only him saying he's confounded the 'infidels' he doesn't understand logical inference.

Much of what I said was pointed out to him very quickly on there, in fact his first premise of his proof is smashed apart about three posts after he joins in himself.

A few people are playing the 'game' but to say he's confounded or caused problems for anyone is pure fantasy on his part. Originally he kept moving the goal posts but now his questions changed so much it actually contradicts itself.

I actually don't see how belief in god contradicts belief in evolution totally, unless you need the literal word of the bible to keep yourself going. It seems to be a subject that the creationists use to rally the cause. Most Christians arn't that daft though.

zaphod Posted on 07/01/2008 03:21
People who believe in god need commiting

O nameless one, you seem unable to face up to the fact that Stalin's anti-religious violence was a direct consequence of his Marxist beliefs. He was just putting into practice Marx's injunction to abolish religion.

"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness." Karl Marx, Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right.

You don't really seem to be capable of following my argument about atheism & morality either. Maybe you didn't read it very carefully or maybe you found it easier to argue against something I never said. What I said was that materialism is morally neutral and therefore a moral code is NOT INHERENT in atheism. Atheists may well have a moral code, but it is not a necessary component of atheism. It is perfectly possible to be an atheist without any moral code, whereas that is not possible for any religious believer. I think most people would agree that the decline of religious belief in the UK has been accompanied by a increasing tendency to reject moral absolutes, to the detriment of society.

My argument about 20th Century atheism is not that religion never caused any wars or misery. My argument is that atheists in the 20th Century caused more mayhem & misery in a few decades than thousands of years of religion. This would suggest actually that religious belief has tended to act as a brake on man's natural violent tendencies.

boroman Posted on 07/01/2008 05:07
People who believe in god need commiting

'My argument about 20th Century atheism is not that religion never caused any wars or misery. My argument is that atheists in the 20th Century caused more mayhem & misery in a few decades than thousands of years of religion. This would suggest actually that religious belief has tended to act as a brake on man's natural violent tendencies.'

Sorry to but in here - I don't intend to get into protracted debate, but couldn't let this one pass.

Suffice to say that this has got to be the most ludicrous statement I have read on the net, or anywhere else, ever !

Especially the last sentence.

Shakes head and shuffles off.

zaphod Posted on 07/01/2008 07:03
People who believe in god need commiting

Good response, boroman.

Abuse, but no argument. I know, I know, it works down the pub with your mates who always agree with you.

boroman Posted on 07/01/2008 08:35
People who believe in god need commiting

Abuse ?

If you feel I have abused you by referring to your spiel as 'ludicrous' then I don't think really think you should be on here.

I don't do 'mates in the pub', save with 2 very good friends, both of whom are god fearing. We agree to disagree but don't try to ram our own ideas down each others throats.

Religion has only ever been a power trip and a means of control of the people - people who need to believe in something better. Pure exploitation. It's been going on since the dawn of time.

So you think there's been more misery and suffering caused in the name of 'Atheism' in the last few decades. Whats the Atheists flag look like - must have missed it.

Who are you referring to - Hitler, Stalin, Mao ? What the f*ck where the Glorious Reich, Communism and Maoism, but Religions to these crazies. They don't necessarily have to have a godhead - just tell the people how its going to be and f*ck em if they don't.

'religious belief has tended to act as a brake on man's natural violent tendencies.' Do me a favour ! Tell that to Incas.




number9 Posted on 07/01/2008 09:17
People who believe in god need commiting

I guess the nameless one is smoggy? And to quote an eariler reply:

"Lefty no not dropped .5, he/she is not me as I have been a JW for 25yrs, from reading his posts he seem'd a confused soul, i'm not."

The reason i would enjoy winding you up is because of your endless "everyone who believes contary to me is an idiot" tone. No other reason.

I used to post on the old mfc board (as number9) and have only just come back to this one (shakes head and asks self why). Never posted on the board before this one (just read the posts with a smile) as it bored me, much like this thread.

But hey believe what you like smoggy it makes no difference to me and there is nothing in this world you could say that would upset me.

Posted on 07/01/2008 09:19
People who believe in god need commiting

Of course describing someone's arguments as "ludicrous" is abuse. Granted, it's not very strong as abuse goes, but it's not a rational argument.

The main atheist ideology of the 20th Century was Communism. Stalin, Mao & Pol Pot managed to kill off over 40 million people between them, not to mention the misery they caused to millions more. That is way in excess of the toll of death & misery inflicted in preceding centuries by religious people. If you add Naziism & Japanese nationalism (which were secular rather than atheist ideologies), the deaths & misery caused escalate much, much higher. To describe these as "religions" is, to quote you, "ludicrous". None of them fulfill the criteria for a religion.

Of course, the vast number of Incas killed in the Spanish conquest (under 10,000) also support your argument really well.

TheSmogMonster Posted on 07/01/2008 09:35
People who believe in god need commiting

Baiting people on the internet is sad no matter what you say number9.

As for you not being point5, remarkable simarality in posting styles to be honest. Isn't it amazing how I wasn't the only one to think that? I saw your earlier post, but who cares, you've already put up a couple of untruths on the thread, another little one wouldn't exactly upset anyone.

"But hey believe what you like smoggy it makes no difference to me and there is nothing in this world you could say that would upset me."

Where have I tried to upset anyone? I've tried to indulge in a frankly dry debate and you've brought up my name in a 'I like winding up people like TheSmogMonster'. All I have previously said about your posts was that it wasn't very Christian to spread lies as truths in order to 'win' internet debates.

Do you think its Christian to lie?

number9 Posted on 07/01/2008 09:39
People who believe in god need commiting

Ok where are the lies and untruths? And as for posting styles you could be trodbitch in disguies?

Believe me I have better things to do.

littlejimmy Posted on 07/01/2008 09:43
People who believe in god need commiting

So, if DNA proves that there is a God, what does the exitence of disease prove? A flawed God? An evil God? What?

If God exists and doesn't know about the suffering of his creations, he can't be all knowing.
If God exists and does know about the suffering but can't do anything about it, he can't be all powerful.
If God exists and he knows and can do something, but won't, then he can't be all merciful.

I don't have any answers, but too many of my questions go unanswered.

zaphod Posted on 07/01/2008 10:06
People who believe in god need commiting

Arrggh, I've become nameless!!

boroman Posted on 07/01/2008 10:16
People who believe in god need commiting

Abuse refers to the use or treatment of something (a person, item, substance, concept, or vocabulary) that is seen as harmful. The term comes from the words Abuse refers to the use or treatment of something (a person, item, substance, concept, or vocabulary) that is seen as harmful. The term comes from the words abnormal use. It can be used for anything ranging from the misuse of a piece of equipment to the severe maltreatment of a person. ???

Religion is often described as a way of life.
Organised religion generally refers to an organisation of people supporting the exercise of some religion with a prescribed set of beliefs, often taking the form of a legal entity.

Whose criteria ? Only yours presumably.

If you want to play the numbers game – here’s some figures from the net :-

+ 1,000,000 perished during the early Arian schism.
+ 1,000,000 during the Carthaginian struggle.
+ 7,000,000 during the Saracen slaughters in Spain.
+ 5,000,000 perished during the eight Crusades.
+ 2,000,000 of Saxons and Scandinavians in opposing the
introduction of the blessings of Christianity.
+ 1,000,000 were destroyed in the Holy(?) Wars against the
Netherlands, Albigenses, Waldenses, and Huguenots. + +30,000,000 Mexicans and Peruvians were slaughtered ere they
could be convinced of the beauties(?)of the
Christian creed.(bit of a difference from your 10k )
+ 9,000,000 were burned for witchcraft.
56,000,000 Total

And this is just in the name of Christianity.



Lefty Posted on 07/01/2008 12:01
People who believe in god need commiting

'+ 9,000,000 were burned for witchcraft'

Are you sure? I don't know about your other figures but that seems very high.


boroman Posted on 07/01/2008 12:34
People who believe in god need commiting

Supposedly taken from The Rationalists Manual - M D Alethia (1897)

I don't know, wasn't around to count em all - but does it matter,
its as selective as Zaph wants it to be.

These are only deaths in the name of Christianity - add all the rest since man crawled out of the swamp or whatever. It'll be a pretty tidy total.

theboydom Posted on 07/01/2008 12:47
People who believe in god need commiting

the question:

number9 Posted on 07/01/2008 14:45
People who believe in god need commiting

I think that you will find that it was proberbly less than 100,000 witches who were burned (not in England by the way they were apparently hanged). Try reading The Ecclesiastical History of the English People by the venerable bede it is most enlightening.

Relgion has caused far too many deaths but from around 1914 the number has accelerated. in one day alone in the www1 58,000 combatants were slaughtered. disgracefull.

WW1 combatant deaths 15,000,000 Civilian deaths 13,000,000
Russian civil war 1917-22 9,000,000
Stalins Rule 1924-53 20,000,00

WW2 total deaths 55,000,000
Deaths due to Post-War Expulsion of Germans 2,100,000
Chinese Civil war 1945-49 2,500,000
Mao's rule 1949-75 40,00,000
Tibet 600,000

And beyond
Congo free state (1908) 8,000,000
Mexian Rev (1910ish) 1,000,000
Armenian Massacres (1915-23): 1,500,000
China, Warlord Era (1917-28): 800,000
China, Nationalist Era (1928-37): 3,100,000
Korean War (1950-53): 2,800,000

I couldgo on but here is an interesting quote:

"it has become customary on the Internet to accuse Government of 170 million murders during the 20th Century.

The small print, however, is still important:
Of Rummel's 169 million democides, 118 million (or 70%) were victims of just three regimes -- the USSR, Communist China and Nazi Germany"

Odd that 2 out of the three biggest killers were athiests?

And most importantly Governments don't kill people; people kill people