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Grumpy_Paul Posted on 23/04/2008 23:17
Teachers going on strike

FFS, more public sector workers trying to get their noses in the trough, demanding over 4%.
Someone, somewhere has to pay for these increases

Dibzzz Posted on 23/04/2008 23:21
Teachers going on strike

Makes me laugh how they whinge like fcuk about their wages.

Show me another job that pays as well with the same amount of time off, hour for lunch, 9am start, 3.15pm finish, 20 min break in morning, 20 min break afternoon no weekends.

Trouble is most teachers, left school, went to college, went to uni, went back to school, a lot of them don't have a fcuking clue.

grantus Posted on 23/04/2008 23:23
Teachers going on strike

I have yet to work in a company that pays above inflation as an anual pay increase.

These teachers can get F***ed. most of them are rubbish anyway.

Dibzzz Posted on 23/04/2008 23:24
Teachers going on strike

Also made me laugh the other week when Easter was early.
They knocked back the hols then so they could have the bank hol separate from the term time.

Don't get me wrong they do a good job,,,but fcuk do we know about it!

PoetLaureate Posted on 23/04/2008 23:27
Teachers going on strike

Compared to nurse's (summit like 40%) there pay increase is very small 9%. It is interesting that only one union is going on strike the others are more than happy.

woman_with_a_willie Posted on 23/04/2008 23:28
Teachers going on strike

It's only one teachers union on strike by the way, not them all.

That NASUWT thing are still working. Forget the name of the strikers. But quite a few aren't striking.

grantus Posted on 23/04/2008 23:30
Teachers going on strike

Isn't it the National Union of T'wats?

Dibzzz Posted on 23/04/2008 23:31
Teachers going on strike

LOL,

A mate of mines a teacher, fcuking should hear him harp on sometimes, you'd think he was the only fcuker working, does my head in.

jeff_potato Posted on 23/04/2008 23:32
Teachers going on strike

Not so much that they're happy, PL, but the amount of annoyed parents at the school I work at is testament to the PR gamble they're playing. Maybe a Monday or Friday would be more well received by those who need to juggle a working week around their children...

The amount of planning necessary in schools nowadays means it doesn't matter what time teachers get away from the building, be it before or after tea, they'll spend more than the average working day planning the days and weeks ahead.

grantus Posted on 23/04/2008 23:34
Teachers going on strike

He's right, it takes time to plan 6 holidays a year.

Dibzzz Posted on 23/04/2008 23:34
Teachers going on strike

B*******,

Just stay at school and plan after the kids have gone till half five.

ridsdale Posted on 23/04/2008 23:37
Teachers going on strike

But how many of you would be capable or willing to teach, and where would you be today without the teachers you had?

PoetLaureate Posted on 23/04/2008 23:38
Teachers going on strike

Teaching is not a easy job at all! I would like to see some of you lot do it. Not simply going into lessons but a lot of planning involved for each individual lesson. I personally would not enjoy trying to teach 30 15 year old's.

Space_Face Posted on 23/04/2008 23:43
Teachers going on strike

It's not an easy job, but they are well paid and why should they get over 4% when nobody else does?

Dibzzz Posted on 23/04/2008 23:43
Teachers going on strike

They do a good job, it's their choice, but they do need to tone it down a bit.

Can't they strike on a teacher training day?

grantus Posted on 23/04/2008 23:43
Teachers going on strike

Good teachers are worth every penny they recieve and more, they have satisfaction and the admiration of their students, coupled with the knowledge they helped some kids on in life.

Unfortunately, most teachers are rubbish and being a teacher is a lot easier than it's made out.

being a good teacher on the other hand....

woman_with_a_willie Posted on 23/04/2008 23:44
Teachers going on strike

Well, looking at the start of some of the secondary school kids at the minute (chavs) you'd have to pay me millions to teach.

If some parents sorted their kids out at home teachers wouldn't be complaining/want more money. Teachers have lost quite alot of respect they'd once had.

jehodgson Posted on 23/04/2008 23:45
Teachers going on strike

It isn't 9%, it is 2.45%. Which is rubbish, to be fair.
The point being made is that it has never matched inflation for years, and the government had a pay review that said ok, we will match inflation form now on, but then said, oh by the way, we will tell you what inflation is for the purposes of your pay, but it might not be what everyone else says inflation is.

Roughly , anyway.

Tom_Fun Posted on 23/04/2008 23:47
Teachers going on strike

"Makes me laugh how they whinge like fcuk about their wages.

Show me another job that pays as well with the same amount of time off, hour for lunch, 9am start, 3.15pm finish, 20 min break in morning, 20 min break afternoon no weekends.

Trouble is most teachers, left school, went to college, went to uni, went back to school, a lot of them don't have a fcuking clue."

Bravo Dibzz, spot on. They want to put things into perspective before they start moaning, ungrateful B******s.

Dibzzz Posted on 23/04/2008 23:47
Teachers going on strike

Any teachers care to swap with me for a year, I earn around the same as you? I do shifts including weekends and get 20 days plus bank hols.

Space_Face Posted on 23/04/2008 23:51
Teachers going on strike

Sometimes they have to do a bit of marking during one of their periods of holiday though.

PoetLaureate Posted on 23/04/2008 23:51
Teachers going on strike

My sister is head of english at a local school and works 6 days a week and most evenings and does not get anywhere near 6 weeks off in the summer. I think jobs like teaching, nurses etc should be paid more. Especially when we are willing to pay 100k a week for footballers who do nothing at all.

Tom_Fun Posted on 23/04/2008 23:54
Teachers going on strike

PoetLaureate, maybe they should get paid more, but not before other public sector workers who work their B******* off but don't get paid anywhere near as much as teachers. Like I said, a bit of perspective is needed from them.

Chris_From_Pitchside Posted on 23/04/2008 23:55
Teachers going on strike

I do it. It's harder than you think. There's definately more children now who have little or no respect for anyone or anything than when I left school less than 10 years ago. Trying to help kids who don't want help and have no ambition other than to go on the dole and disrupt you teaching the ones who want to achieve is stressful as. And if you think 3 o'clocks the end of the day you're miles off.

Dibzzz Posted on 23/04/2008 23:55
Teachers going on strike

What about the people who work in power stations who provide the electricity you need to use your whiteboards, should they get paid more?

Chris_From_Pitchside Posted on 23/04/2008 23:56
Teachers going on strike

We're moulding the future of society. The future power station workers and so on...

Tom_Fun Posted on 23/04/2008 23:57
Teachers going on strike

Is it closer to 4 Chris?

Chris_From_Pitchside Posted on 23/04/2008 23:58
Teachers going on strike

Sometimes I'm in after 4.

Dibzzz Posted on 23/04/2008 23:58
Teachers going on strike

LOL,,typical,

I have the most important job in the world tw@t.

Chris_From_Pitchside Posted on 24/04/2008 00:00
Teachers going on strike

I'm not saying I have the most important job in the world. I'm just saying it's not easy. And it's getting tougher due to huge numbers of kids being brought into Benefit Britain.

Tom_Fun Posted on 24/04/2008 00:00
Teachers going on strike

That's why you get paid well.

Grumpy_Paul Posted on 24/04/2008 00:00
Teachers going on strike

I have nothing but respect for good teachers and the job that they do.
All in all though once they have a few years under their belt they have a pretty good deal compared to many.
Added to that there is every chance that we as a nation have some tough financial years ahead, in most industries they would be looking at redundancies in such circumstances not above inflation pay rises. Come on teachers, join the real world.

Dibzzz Posted on 24/04/2008 00:03
Teachers going on strike

I'm not saying it is, but why do we have to listen to you lot whinge on and on?

Just get on with it, you get a very good wage, excellent conditions and a bumper pension.

It's your choice, you've got it good and you know it.

Chris_From_Pitchside Posted on 24/04/2008 00:05
Teachers going on strike

I quite like the look of the pay rise to be honest. But I can understand some of em wanting more. Anyhow I'm off to bed. I have to be in for 9 o'clock tomorrow.

Tom_Fun Posted on 24/04/2008 00:08
Teachers going on strike

Early start for you then? Pah, no use back chatting to a teacher, they either don't listen or give you detention.

Dibzzz Posted on 24/04/2008 00:11
Teachers going on strike

"We're moulding the future of society. The future power station workers and so on..."

It's that sort of self-righteous bullS*** that most teachers seem to spout that gets up my nose.


Chris_From_Pitchside Posted on 24/04/2008 00:14
Teachers going on strike

Sorry, still here. Was being sarcastic. But it is an important job. Dunno how old you are but I reckon most people would be pretty shocked at the poor behaviour that a growing number of children show now and the lack of parental support teachers get in trying to deal with it. I'm worried for the future of this country.

Dibzzz Posted on 24/04/2008 00:18
Teachers going on strike

Nowt wrong with my kids, doing well and have respect plus as much support from me and the wife as they want.

All my mates and familys kids seem to be the same.

About time they got tough on the cretins.

Boroboi_Dave Posted on 24/04/2008 00:20
Teachers going on strike

most people don't like teachers because they try and control you.They have a go for nothing and don't expect anything back. Now their expecting more money cheeky bstrds. Half my teachers have been geordies or scottish which is pretty much why they hate me and i hate them :)

Grumpy_Paul Posted on 24/04/2008 00:27
Teachers going on strike

Chris
I take on board your points about ill disciplined children, must be a real ball ache but most jobs have ball aches to varying extents that have to be dealt with

Boroboi_Dave Posted on 24/04/2008 00:30
Teachers going on strike

you reminded me of a teacher i had in year 6...scratchin his balls with one hand n tyin his shoe with the other...or pretending to the sick f$ck

Dibzzz Posted on 24/04/2008 00:31
Teachers going on strike

Nice one GP.

The trouble, as I said earlier, is that most teachers haven't sampled work outside the school enviroment.

They went to school, went to college, went to uni then back to school again to work.

They're a bit out of touch with the real world and how other jobs can be as (if not more) stressful and difficult.

borobadge Posted on 24/04/2008 00:35
Teachers going on strike

good on 'em i say...

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 24/04/2008 01:04
Teachers going on strike

yeah, me too

they're standing up for themselves, shame a few of the gripers on here don't do the same rather than sit on their fat arses moaning and curtain twitching

buttermyarse Posted on 24/04/2008 07:22
Teachers going on strike

Why should the teachers or anyone else for thet matter accept a pay rise that is less than the rate of inflation????? Its about time someone stood up to this fooking government. If people dont start standing up for themselves then it wont be long before none of us have a pot to P*** in. Do we just sit back and accept it while having less and less in our pockets?. Some of the half wits posting on this thread will be moaning in a few years and by then it will be too late...

BenJammin Posted on 24/04/2008 08:01
Teachers going on strike

To all those complaining that teachers are well paid, have an easy job and get loads of holidays compared to what you do....

There's a shortage of teachers, there's adverts on TV for more people to become teachers so why don't you apply to become one if it's such an easy life?

Fact of the matter is teaching is undersubscribed beacuse most people educated to degree standard would comfortably get paid more in higher industry and not get half as much hassle.

commuter Posted on 24/04/2008 08:02
Teachers going on strike

sorry a lot of you are talking absolute rubbish, now not all teachers are great, but a whole lot of them put in shed loads of time and effort and do care about what they do.

in return they get verbally and physically abused most days and more often than not are unable to do anything about it (and that is abuse from parents of kids who are too lazy to do any parenting themselves and wonder why little jonny is such a f uck as well as from some of the kids). should they expect that like hell they should, you go to work and expect to dealt will civilly.

as for there salary, since 1979 it has fallen in real terms about 30% compared to where it should be, how many other jobs have had there salary cut that much, cant think of any myself.

on the lines of it only being 1 union striking (the NUT) well it is the biggest by far and they tend to lead and the other unions follow, at the same time i would not expect the members of the other unions (especially nasuwt) being to happy about having to cross colleagues picket lines.

with regards to the holidays they get, good for them, I worked in industry doing 12 hour night shifts, worked in offices, managed departments, done 3 jobs at the same time (bank during day, call centre evening and barwork at night), been an air traffic controller for 4 years (alledgedly the most stressfull and demanding job there is) before going into teaching.

teaching is the only job that i have come across where you do not get 5 mins to relax, where becuase of the amount of violent numpties you get in some schools you are basically on crowd control. it is the most mentally tiring role i have ever done and i love it

even now, i have moved aborad but i still teach and it is an amazing job but it is also the hardest one i have ever done and too right the teachers in the uk deserve more pay, a load more in my opinion

zoec Posted on 24/04/2008 08:15
Teachers going on strike

Dibzzz - I don't know if you're aware, but statutory holiday entitlement increased from 20 days to 24 days on 1st October 2007. I'd have a word with your employers.

cyrilcensus Posted on 24/04/2008 08:23
Teachers going on strike

teachers do a fantastic job and deserve what they are demanding.
i,ll toot my horn in accord

Grumpy_Paul Posted on 24/04/2008 09:03
Teachers going on strike


Fact of the matter is teaching is undersubscribed beacuse most people educated to degree standard would comfortably get paid more in higher industry and not get half as much hassle.

WRONG
Like I said earlier, join the real world.

Teachers average pay over £30,000
I have two PHD Physics working for me at substantially less and our company pay better than similar.
Take a look at the Gazette for an idea of Teesside pay rates.

Give them what they want and pay more tax??? is that what you want??? And all the other public sector workers??? The money has to come from somewhere

grantus Posted on 24/04/2008 09:06
Teachers going on strike

They don't know the half of it. They either come straight out of school themsleves and haven't got a clue about the real world that they are supposed to be preparing kids for (hence they can't handle the "abuse" they get) or they have failed in the real world and are hiding away in schools. Then you get the rarity that actually have a passion for it, are well grounded and are actually good at it. When I say rarity, I mean rarity. These few unsung diamonds would not be letting the kids down and striking today. That's for sure.


mickbrown Posted on 24/04/2008 09:07
Teachers going on strike

Good on em.

Shyte job baby sitting your brats and dealing with issues caused by shyte parents. Deserve a lot more.

captain5 Posted on 24/04/2008 09:25
Teachers going on strike

Fair play to them.

The fact that they haven't gone on strike for about twenty years shows that it's something they care about.

The government are just realising that they've wasted that much money on wars and really dodgy PFI projects that they can't afford to pay their workers the amount that they've agreed to.

Whether you agree with what teachers get paid overall, if your boss said you were getting an extra 100 quid a week and then only paid you 50, you'd be P***ed off, especially if they'd made a big thing at the time of offering you that 100 quid.

Capybara Posted on 24/04/2008 09:28
Teachers going on strike

What captain says. Although I prefer 'gone on strike' as the past tense of the verb.

captain5 Posted on 24/04/2008 09:34
Teachers going on strike

I must say gone on strike when talking about striking in the past tense.
I must say gone on strike when talking about striking in the past tense.
I must say gone on strike when talking about striking in the past tense.
I must say gone on strike when talking about striking in the past tense.
I must say gone on strike when talking about striking in the past tense.
I must say gone on strike when talking about striking in the past tense.
I must say gone on strike when talking about striking in the past tense.
I must say gone on strike when talking about striking in the past tense.
I must say gone on strike when talking about striking in the past tense.

BenJammin Posted on 24/04/2008 09:39
Teachers going on strike

Grumpy_Paul, so you say the average pay rate is over 30k for a teacher, fair enough but thats the average for all teachers in all locations and of all ages and includes head teachers. The average teacher must be in their 40s and if you have two guys with PHDs working for you who have been doing their job for 20 years and are earning substantially less than 30k I would say either they are not very good at their jobs or it's not typical of the average.

I do actually work in the real world myself and in London a teacher in their 20s will be earning less than 30k a year which barely covers rent wheras kids straight out of college who work with me are earning closer to 90k. The teachers strike is a national one, not just Teesside you know.

I don't mind paying taxes to get good teachers no. I suppose you'd rather have poor teachers just doing it because they can't get other work. What sort of state is that going to leave the country in? I hope you don't need a Doctor in 20 years time or so!


MrGFox Posted on 24/04/2008 09:39
Teachers going on strike

I suspect a lot of the comments here today have been fishing for this type of post but here goes anyway:

My partner works as a teacher in a primary school, she will be in this morning for 8 and leave at 5 (just because the kids go home at 3 doesnít mean the teachers do). She will probably be marking and planning for an hour this evening (which sneakily allows me some quality Playstation Ratchet and Clank time).
If we drive anywhere on Saturday I will drive and she will do her marking in the car. Pretty much half of the Sundays in the month she will be in school for at least some time, or working at home.
It is the same any holidays, much of the time she will be in school planning and setting the class room up.
She also runs after school circuit training and board games clubs.
As someone has already said the job is constant Ė every second of everyday Ė and that mythical hour lunch disappears when you have to go out and watch the kids or discipline a child or set up your classroom for the next lesson, to me it seems much more a lifestyle choice than a job.
Increasingly the job is turning into parenting and then teaching. She has been pinched, kicked and bitten, sworn at by pupils and parents alike.
But the days when she comes home and tells me how brilliant the class has been and how they enjoyed learning are the best.

She is not on strike today and doesnít complain about the pay because she loves the job, but do I think she deserves a pay rise? Of course I do. I am proud of her, more so when what she does she doesn't think is above and beyond the actual job.

No one has said that other jobs arenít stressful or important but you know what if you think you deserve more money in your job you go and ask for it Ė isnít this what the strike is about? If you were promised something and then had the goal posts moved you would be annoyed and striking could be the only real way to get your message out. Losing that right and option is the loss of a big freedom.

She would probably kill me of she knew I was writing this as she doesnít complain and when we go out with other teachers they donít moan about their jobs any more than anyone else I know.

Also perhaps the fact that everyone finds the strike disruptive is perhaps a measure of how much we rely on teachers?

neilg Posted on 24/04/2008 09:50
Teachers going on strike

good points. my brother-in-law is a teacher and is extremely committed to his job. unlike others, he doesnt just "clock off". lesson plans, offsted inspections,cover and on going training take up far more time than some imagine.

the point i would make, is that, if we all stood together and supported decent pensions for everyone and a higher standard of living, we would get on a lot better.

if the private sector is such a grind and the pressures in other sectors mean long hours and poor working practices, then join a union and work together to do something about it.

divide and rule is what some want to see, because we squabble like old hens for grit, and miss the main points entirely. i support the teachers,health workers,dwp staff and private sector workers who strive to improve their standards of living and security in old age.

well said mrgfox.

TheSmogMonster Posted on 24/04/2008 09:54
Teachers going on strike

Great post MrGFox,

My Mrs is going into teaching after several years real world experience, it'll actualy be a pay cut for her, but she wants to do a job where she can impact on people's lives, and I'm immensely proud of her for doing so. Its a far tougher job then when I do for a living but I'll earn lets just say 'a fair bit more' then her when I'm fully up and running.

As has been said earlier in the thread, the funding problem of public sector workers is because of the PFI and the war, neither of which were cheap and in the case of PFI's are license for private companies to print money.

Teachers contribute to society then almost all of us, why the negativity towards them?

grantus Posted on 24/04/2008 09:57
Teachers going on strike

Sounds like your lass is well into "extra curricular activities" MrGFox [;)]




Link: Maybe call these guys?

Tom_Fun Posted on 24/04/2008 09:58
Teachers going on strike

"they're standing up for themselves, shame a few of the gripers on here don't do the same rather than sit on their fat arses moaning and curtain twitching"

Yeah that'd be brilliant. There's plenty of workers who don't get paid what they deserve. Shall we all strike too and bring the country to a standstill?

captain5 Posted on 24/04/2008 10:00
Teachers going on strike

Most people don't have an employer who promises to give them a pay rise and then reneges on it, Tom.

jeff_potato Posted on 24/04/2008 10:02
Teachers going on strike

Maybe it's all the naughty children from school whose voices are heard, SmogMonster!

The high average salary is based on a weighting towards an older demographic in teaching. A Newly Qualified Teacher starts below the average graduate starting salary prior to moving through the pay bands.

MrGFox Posted on 24/04/2008 10:02
Teachers going on strike

grantus, I wish she had the time!

edit: because I've just seen the kink you posted and am not sure what you are inferring!

Tom_Fun Posted on 24/04/2008 10:03
Teachers going on strike

Was this a contractual agreement or a gentlemen's agreement?

neilg Posted on 24/04/2008 10:07
Teachers going on strike

teachers pay is imposed, not negotiated. if others are daft enough to lie down like lambs and say "thank you for the crumbs off your table master", its your own fault. you dont mind paying £20hr to watch overpaid primadonnas on a saturday and spend millions on tatty crap from the boro shop, but when teachers (and the rest) want a decent wage for looking after your kids, you deny them that right.

if you want second rate kids and you blame the teachers for others kids behaviour, like all other workers - dony pay and you get what you deserve. = cheap.

captain5 Posted on 24/04/2008 10:14
Teachers going on strike

Tom, why does it matter if it's written or not??

Do you trust your government that little??

They'll be going against independent pay reviews for police pay next.

neilg Posted on 24/04/2008 10:15
Teachers going on strike

:-o

Tom_Fun Posted on 24/04/2008 10:20
Teachers going on strike

Actually yes, I do trust the government that little. I work in the public sector and have been promised pay rises on numerous occasions, but as they have only been verbal there's F*** all we can do about it.

captain5 Posted on 24/04/2008 10:21
Teachers going on strike

So, how much did they promise you and how much did you get??

Tom_Fun Posted on 24/04/2008 10:22
Teachers going on strike

What does it matter? Let's just say we didn't get as much as we were promised.

neilg Posted on 24/04/2008 10:25
Teachers going on strike

so you just moan on and the value of your salary drops and drops. but you do nothing.

if you dont know how to object and be proactive protecting your rights at work - consult......and find out. perhaps talk to colleagues and stop being a wet lettuce. if your at "work" now - stop wasting (my) tax - payers money!

captain5 Posted on 24/04/2008 10:26
Teachers going on strike

You should've gone on strike, Tom rather than getting F***ed up the arse.

Neil, that was not meant literally. Don't ask for an application form.

BrokenLance Posted on 24/04/2008 10:27
Teachers going on strike

Why should any worker be expected to settle for yearly payrises below inflation? It means you are working for less money every year.
I think the whole country should go on strike in protest at this incompetent government who keeps feeding inflation by putting up stealth taxes, and green taxes which don't do anything green at all-just put more money into government coffers.

neilg Posted on 24/04/2008 10:28
Teachers going on strike

captain5, are you "flar" in disguise? i hope so cus im enjoying the giggle. i promise i wont be all arsey this morning. the suns shining ;@)

captain5 Posted on 24/04/2008 10:29
Teachers going on strike

I'm most definitely not the man with a woman's name.

neilg Posted on 24/04/2008 10:31
Teachers going on strike

i didnt know it was a womans name - i just thought it might be short for

flart
flare

or whatever.

Tom_Fun Posted on 24/04/2008 10:33
Teachers going on strike

"so you just moan on and the value of your salary drops and drops. but you do nothing."

What the F*** are you talking about neilg? Where did I say my salary 'drops and drops'? Stick to posts about popes and nazis.

neilg Posted on 24/04/2008 10:35
Teachers going on strike

if you dont get at least a rise equivalent to inflation the value "drops and drops", doesnt it? get angry with yourself.if you came out on strike or on an overtime ban youde be asking for support.think.

grantus Posted on 24/04/2008 10:44
Teachers going on strike

MrGFox. [;)]

Just pointing out that she spends a hell of a lot of extra time away from home, can't get enough of it yet still brings her work home with her and does it during your "quality time"

Classic signs.

neilg Posted on 24/04/2008 10:46
Teachers going on strike

*every week he has a night out with the lads and

*every week she has a night out with the lads as well!!!!

MrGFox Posted on 24/04/2008 11:06
Teachers going on strike

I'm starting to be less proud of her.

I'm even start to doubt she's actually a teacher.

thats the last time I stick up for her...

ruddy teachers and their pay demands.

red_rebel Posted on 24/04/2008 11:10
Teachers going on strike

"Yeah that'd be brilliant. There's plenty of workers who don't get paid what they deserve. Shall we all strike too and bring the country to a standstill?"

Yes. Of course. The alternative is forelocking tugging graitude at being given a pittance and som ecrumbs from the toffs table.

Rod100 Posted on 24/04/2008 11:11
Teachers going on strike

after reading the first few comments on this thread it is plain to see how ignorant the majority are on this subject.
9am, start, 3.15 finish, hour for lunch blah blah.

what a crock of S***. i did my teacher training and i can tell you it is nothing like that.

obviously some on here swallow chapter and verse what some clown down the pub tells them.

rivals_oldschool Posted on 24/04/2008 11:23
Teachers going on strike

Since Labour came to power the inflation figures have been fiddled.

Itís more obvious now than ever with increasing oil and food prices.

The last time wages were more out of line with prices than they are now was at the peak of the last boom. Itís a funny belief that pricing homes out of reach of an average wage was the sign of a strong economy? How can that be?

Labour have pulled off a magnificent con. They convinced people that they had made it, that they were now middle class.

If you cant survive without income, your working class. Itís thatís simple.

mattyk50 Posted on 24/04/2008 11:25
Teachers going on strike

a friend of mine worked in the private business sector for 10 years, then came into teaching and said it is the most stressful job they have had

*im not a teacher btw

mickbrown Posted on 24/04/2008 11:27
Teachers going on strike

I used to be a teacher. I also once had a summer job clearing up after dead people.

I'd much rather do that than teach again.

Start at 9 and finish at 3.30? Utter, utter bollox.

grantus Posted on 24/04/2008 11:30
Teachers going on strike

MrGFox [:D]

MrGFox Posted on 24/04/2008 11:39
Teachers going on strike

So when she got 2 rugby players in to help her with PE - she really was getting educationally physical?

To think Iíve been driving her around, going out for drinks with her boring teacher mates, endlessly laminating brightly coloured letters and all this timeÖ

I feel a fool.

grantus Posted on 24/04/2008 11:44
Teachers going on strike

Ask for a 9% pay rise or stop doing the washing up.

BarryHercules Posted on 24/04/2008 11:51
Teachers going on strike

As I've said on a previous thread my Missus is a teacher, she bring home 30k and is her 20s teaching in Boro. She agrees that teachers do pretty well for themselves. Teachers pay is often high than the private sector and unlike most they still get final salary pensions, extra holidays, usually early retirement, etc. There are now so many ways to gain extra points that most teachers can easily add an extra couple of grand to their basic pay packet.

Pinkers Posted on 24/04/2008 11:54
Teachers going on strike

Well, I've worked in a school, (not as a teacher) and around half of the teachers were gone by 4pm. I don't dispute for a moment that there are some very dedicated and hard-working teachers that do a great job, or that it can very stressful in some schools. Are all these teachers planning at home all night, every night? I would sincerely hope not - teachers I know say it's hard initially because you have to build up lesson plans, but once you've been teaching a couple of years, it's just following the same thing. They say they love the holidays, and feel they have it good.

We also come back to the fact that every six weeks, teachers get at least a week off. As for teachers coming in during the holidays, this was only a very small percentage in the school I worked at, and even those were Senior Management on 60k+ and only for a few days, i.e. results days for GCSE/A level and a day or two before. Despite effectively working pro-rata they get a full wage, and one that is better than most other public sector workers who would be paid 'term-time only' for the same hours.

Someone mentioned earlier there wasn't another job they could name where salaries had failed to keep up with inflation - well I'll give you one - the whole H.E. sector. Having worked in both, I feel H.E. is far more important in preparing people for the world of work. It's also shockingly underfunded - lecturers would love the pay scales teachers enjoy, and with due respect to teachers, thwe teaching is at a whole different level, in an environment where the syllabus constantly changes instead of being the same thing year after year. THAT requires planning and working at home constantly, and the ADDITIONAL pressure of research on top of teaching, and no luxury of teachers holidays. Before you can even do it you have to spend more time and money getting qualified, and I won't even start on job security which for all but senior staff is extremely poor. Most teachers would shat themselves after a few weeks in H.E.

Dibzz/Grantus I totally agree with your thoughts - many of them who want to strike don't live in the real world.

MrGFox Posted on 24/04/2008 12:04
Teachers going on strike

She did say I would get 9% but then she changed her mind and now offers only 5.
Not sure I should stand for it to be honest but what can you do?


TeessideSeasider Posted on 24/04/2008 12:15
Teachers going on strike

Nightmare getting kids looked after - teachers dont understand this - when the kids are off - so are they

They only work half a year - and like someone said earlier - two or three breaks a day - weekends off and a 9am - 3 30pm finished

Most of them have never left school - ie worked outside the four walls of an school.

Dont get me wrong - there are some good, down to earth teachers - who are frustrated by such colleagues - and yes, there are some pupils who must be a handful - but most teachers have a headful of cartoons

neilg Posted on 24/04/2008 12:20
Teachers going on strike

some parents never make sure their kids get to school and when they finally get there, they treat teachers like sh**

talk about the real world. you do a degree then a pgce and start work £20,000 in debt to put up with your kids!

standards Posted on 24/04/2008 12:21
Teachers going on strike

I get 24 days a year, annoys me (SLIGHTLY)that ive just had to take a week to mind the kids and family so they can have 2 weeks off in dull wet soggy skint april, the wife took the other week.

raggy100 Posted on 24/04/2008 12:22
Teachers going on strike

Where is this real world ?

Are kids who go through all sorts of turmoil not part of it ?
Are the aggressive parents who often physically and verbally abuse teachers not part of it?

Is a job inputting data into a PC with no human contact the real world ?

mickbrown Posted on 24/04/2008 12:22
Teachers going on strike

Lecturers define there own syllabus - they teach what they want.

Teachers follow sylabuses that changes every year so all this bollox about having a set of teaching plans and regurgitating is bollox.

If it's such an easy well paid job why aren't you lot battering down the doors to get in.

I've done it, it's shyt.

TeessideSeasider Posted on 24/04/2008 12:23
Teachers going on strike

My sister is a school govenor, and said at a school meeting last year one teacher nearly caused a riot by saying "We only get 6 weeks off in the Summer you know"

FFS

Grumpy_Paul Posted on 24/04/2008 12:24
Teachers going on strike

Just to make it clear, my initial point was really about affordability of the public sector pay rises.
I actually respect and admire the teaching profession or at least the good teachers.
My point is that since this government came in the public sector have done pretty well as a whole on salaries.
I do begrudge the tax burdon we are all suffering nowadays and feel that it's time for the public purse strings to be tightened


bosshogg Posted on 24/04/2008 12:35
Teachers going on strike

I was as cyncial as most of you about teachers working hours and number of holidays.....

.....but since I started living with a teacher, I'm quite surprised at how much time she HAS TO spend working at home! not as easy a job as some of you, and previously me, think!!



Pinkers Posted on 24/04/2008 13:01
Teachers going on strike

'Lecturers define there own syllabus - they teach what they want.

Teachers follow sylabuses that changes every year so all this bollox about having a set of teaching plans and regurgitating is bollox.'

No Mick, not bollox in board speak - FACT! GCSE syllabuses are all on the net to download, all you do is follow them. Piece of P***.

Pinkers Posted on 24/04/2008 13:08
Teachers going on strike

'Where is this real world ?'

Raggy, it's a reference to other public sector workers like Firemen, Nurses, etc who earn no more money have arguably worse stresses, work shifts, and have no holiday every 5 mins. Teachers should look around and see that, actually, they have it good compared to most.

'Are kids who go through all sorts of turmoil not part of it ?
Are the aggressive parents who often physically and verbally abuse teachers not part of it?'

I think there is also the question of what school you work in. I worked in one in a good area, and the nightmare kids arguement doesn't really apply as they are pretty rare.

BenJammin Posted on 24/04/2008 13:20
Teachers going on strike

Yes and Firemen never go on strike do they!

Pinkers Posted on 24/04/2008 13:40
Teachers going on strike

Not the point though is it? Their conditions are far worse, and their job is far more dangerous.

kernaghanscodpiece Posted on 24/04/2008 13:54
Teachers going on strike

I was a teacher for two years. I think it's an almost impossible job. Constant battles with delinquent kids and their chav parents, mountains of paper work, endless preparation and marking.

30 grand a year is peanuts when you think of their stress and work load.

mickbrown Posted on 24/04/2008 14:13
Teachers going on strike

Pinkers - the syllabuses changes therefore teachers can't use the same lesson plans for years and therefore have to plan their lessons. They don't have time to do this during the school day so this is done at night.

Nailed on FACT.

You've not done the job, so you can't really comment on it.

I have - it's a thankless task.

Rain_dog Posted on 24/04/2008 14:27
Teachers going on strike

Zoec - "Dibzzz - I don't know if you're aware, but statutory holiday entitlement increased from 20 days to 24 days on 1st October 2007. I'd have a word with your employers."

It won't do him any good. They can include the statutory bank holidays in that so he won't be better off, and he also won't be better of at the start of next year when it goes up to 28 days statutory holiday entitlement, for the same reason.

I've just checked it out as I'm in the same boat.

Pinkers Posted on 24/04/2008 14:47
Teachers going on strike

Mick - Have you played professional football? You seem to comment plenty on that [:)]

No I haven't but I've worked in schools and in H.E. and know plenty of people who have taught in both. Teaching is better paid, more secure, and has far longer holidays and they want 10% pay rise? It's unrealistic and undeserved in relation to others I've mentioned.

captain5 Posted on 24/04/2008 14:48
Teachers going on strike

Teaching is a lot less secure now due to the way the government and councils have bolloxed things up with funding.

mickbrown Posted on 24/04/2008 14:51
Teachers going on strike

Pinkers - do you know how many holidays lecturers get?

bosshogg Posted on 24/04/2008 14:52
Teachers going on strike

They are after a 4.1% pay rise, not 10%, and it's a lot less secure than you seem to think!!

neilg Posted on 24/04/2008 14:55
Teachers going on strike

i do uni part time - finish in august, had 2 weeks in november, 4 weeks hols over xmas,3 weeks at easter, work 40 hrs week and £15,000 in debt for it. after teacher training (fees/rent/living) some, at 24 have debts of £20,000 and earn less than that a year.

am i lucky or a fool?

Snoop_Smog Posted on 24/04/2008 15:03
Teachers going on strike

Pinkers, please don't tell me university lecturers have it worse off. Lecturers sylabus's are often defined by the lecturer. Many of the handout I was given in my recent degree had dates on the 2 or three years out of date. Often the only reason they have their harrowing 12 hours a week lecture schedule is they get big fat research grants from the uni.

Lecturers have no responsibility for their students and most couldn't give a fook if you pass or fail. Two of my lecturers in uni were confirmed alchoholics, one said "if you ever need to see me about anything I'll be in the star and garter.

In comparison my girlfriend has marking to do every night, she is ofen looking for resources on line, often purchasing them out of her own pocket. A starting wage of 22,000, for someone who graduated with a 1st in psychology is not a good wage.

She is not striking today by the way. And I'm damn sure she doesn't have the time to sit on here all day like we do.

Pinkers Posted on 24/04/2008 15:04
Teachers going on strike

Yes, a lot less than teachers.

If you want to know what marking is, you should try marking degree and post-grad level work. Takes 40 mins to mark a 3,000 word script. Do you know how much a part-time lecturer gets paid for that? £2 a pop.

I know someone who is lecturing at Durham Uni this afternook for free, just to get the experience on their CV because it is so difficult to get in to because of the chronic lack of funding. This is someone with a PhD who is an exceptional teacher imo. Teachers have it tough do they? They don't know they're born.

Pinkers Posted on 24/04/2008 15:11
Teachers going on strike

Snoop - ever been at home with a lecturer? It's the same with worse pay and less holidays.
Did your girlfriend get a grant while she was training? My missus started on less than that after a PhD paid for out of her own pocket. Wages are worse in H.E. believe me.

I'm not suggesting for a minute there aren't crap lecturers just as there are crap teachers, of course there are. Not sure what your point is about syllabuses. If you think it's quicker and easier to research, write and deliver one than just deliver one, you are wrong. It's also at a higher level. Take Biology: Welcome to GCSE Biology - there are three parts to a cell - membrane, nucleus, cytoplasm. Welcome to BSc Biology - Forget that GCSE S***, actually there are dozens of parts, here's how they all work.

mailinator Posted on 24/04/2008 15:13
Teachers going on strike

You are all so quick to condemn the teachers as doing a poor job that anyone could do yet you are happy to send your kids along each day to be in their care while they learn?

Pinkers Posted on 24/04/2008 15:15
Teachers going on strike

A lot of teachers did a very good job in the school I worked in. I was very impressed with their levels of dedication and professionalism.

captain5 Posted on 24/04/2008 15:16
Teachers going on strike

Some lecturers are on strike as well aren't they today??

mickbrown Posted on 24/04/2008 15:16
Teachers going on strike

"I know someone who is lecturing at Durham Uni this afternook for free, just to get the experience on their CV because it is so difficult to get in to because of the chronic lack of funding. This is someone with a PhD who is an exceptional teacher imo."

Which begs the question - why don't they just go and get another job?


montriff Posted on 24/04/2008 15:16
Teachers going on strike

Nothing wrong in wanting 4% is there? How much has the council tax,petrol,gas/leccy,food,in fact every fOOOking thing gone up this year? Bet its a lot more than 4%

neilg Posted on 24/04/2008 15:21
Teachers going on strike

teechas tort mee too spewl reeli whell :@)

Pinkers Posted on 24/04/2008 15:21
Teachers going on strike

'Which begs the question - why don't they just go and get another job?'

You'd have to ask them, but knowing them I'd say because they've worked their B******* off and spent upwards of 10k getting a PhD to do the job they;ve always wanted to do.

mickbrown Posted on 24/04/2008 15:22
Teachers going on strike

You don't need a PhD to be a lecturer, so if they really wanted that job could have saved themselves a S***load of trouble and money.

Snoop_Smog Posted on 24/04/2008 15:27
Teachers going on strike

I can't talk about GCSE sylabus's as my girlfriend is a primary school teacher. The early years foundation curriculum has changed 3 times in recent memory (5 or 6 years I think but don't quote me)and this is not just teaching material, it's changes in how children are to be tought, lessons are planned, teachers are assessed etc.

I agree that the field goes into more depth at uni level but it's a totally different job. A uni lecturer has no responsibility to ensure their students pass, help motivate and discipline them or even know their names, most of mine at uni couldn't pick me out of a line up! but as you say I'm sure there are good ones and bad ones, most of mine were the latter.

I think we're kind of on the same side here anyway, teachers have a hard job which is more difficult then they get credit for. hence the reason there is a national shortage of them.

I'm surprised about the holidays though, I used to regularly have 2-3 months off during uni, does your mrs. not get that?

GtBB Posted on 24/04/2008 15:39
Teachers going on strike

I have only to leave my home and listen to the kids in the street and every sympathy I might have had for local teachers evaporates quicker than phlem on the pavement. I kow for a fact that I could do a better joband for less remumeration.

Listen to the middle-classes squeal as the race to the bottom starts biting them.

mickbrown Posted on 24/04/2008 15:44
Teachers going on strike

Lecturers are entitled to "reasonable holidays", so they basically have what they can get away with.

Pinkers Posted on 24/04/2008 15:45
Teachers going on strike

Mick - Strictly speaking no you don't but whether you can lecture without one depends on your subject. If you teach something like Nursing it's quite easy to start teaching it. But good luck getting industry experience in, say, Philosophy. In this instance there is no chance they would get a lectureship without a PhD.

Snoop, yeah the government is always medalling with curriculums they can;t leave it alone. I actually have a lot of respect for most of the teachers I worked with, they are very professional people. However, they all tell me they love the holidays, and it's a great job, so from my own experience when I look at nurses, firemen, and lecturers they appear to get a far worse deal.

My missus is a researcher at the moment, so has bog standard 24 days holiday a year. Academic staff get much more, but it is not all holiday. There is pressure on them to produce research for the institution because more research = more government funding. Also, if you're not research active, you will not move up the career ladder. It's a bit of a two tier situation at the moment. There are old farts at the top who've been there for years who earn good money and take year long sabbaticals which are basically holidays. If you have little experience it is dog eat dog because the government gives more funding to unis for employing people with a long research record. Noone wants to employ newly qualified PhDs so you have to work incredibly hard (in some subjects) to show you're something special. The govt is creating a skills gap, as when the older people retire there will be noone to step in!

Pinkers Posted on 24/04/2008 15:52
Teachers going on strike

'Lecturers are entitled to "reasonable holidays", so they basically have what they can get away with'

Did you hear that down the pub Mick? At my institution they get 35 days. Or in teacher speak, a week less than the summer holiday [;)]

Snoop_Smog Posted on 24/04/2008 15:52
Teachers going on strike

Gtbb i havn't heard so much shyte in one sentence on here in a long time.

You actually blame teachers for the state of the scrotes on the street? The people you have to look at are the parents. If a kid doesn't want to learn and the parents don't care there's fook all a teacher can do.

If you're so great give it a try yourself, you'd last 5 minutes.

mickbrown Posted on 24/04/2008 15:54
Teachers going on strike

Pinkers that's a fact.

Chris_From_Pitchside Posted on 24/04/2008 16:05
Teachers going on strike

I'm an exceptional teacher, I have worked in the real world and I deserve more money.

The biggest problem with a lot of the kids at the moment is that they are now the second generation of the benefit culture so if you try and discipline them, their parents kick off and show disrespect as well.

We're on the frontlines dealing with this growing problem.

Pinkers Posted on 24/04/2008 16:09
Teachers going on strike

It's only a FACT if it's in capitals, get it edited [:)]

I know what you're saying - if you're a PL or above you can get away with it, but they are in the minority. Below that you work a long week.

GtBB - kids like that were rare where I worked, but they are difficult to deal with. They know all their rights these days, and teachers are effectively powerless if they are going to behave like scum. It is parents that are to blame.

goalscrounger Posted on 24/04/2008 17:25
Teachers going on strike

Cracking post (but is it about fishing or teaching?!) [:)]


BillBones Posted on 24/04/2008 17:28
Teachers going on strike

I've just come in from work and I've never heard so much S***e (especially from this Dibzz character). I'm a teacher and rarely finish before 5.30 (this is my first pre 5.30 finish this term), not to mention work done at home. The Easter holidays were moved because Easter was early and the terms would've messed up, the two bank holidays that we have gained will be paid back by a shortened summer holiday. A lot of my holiday days are also spent working.

GtBB Posted on 24/04/2008 17:33
Teachers going on strike

By their own admittance they cannot control a classroom yet they want more money? I can't see that happening.

goalscrounger Posted on 24/04/2008 17:43
Teachers going on strike

BB, don't bite!

I've been using this board (or its predecessors) for long enough to ride above these kind of posts (they usually start when I post a drunken message on the Friday night at the beginning of the six weeks!!)

[:)]

BillBones Posted on 24/04/2008 17:43
Teachers going on strike

More uninformed bile.

BillBones Posted on 24/04/2008 17:45
Teachers going on strike

Could I get time off for the UEFA Cup Final?

goalscrounger Posted on 24/04/2008 17:49
Teachers going on strike

Not if you work at my school. (However, when I become a head, you'll have no problems if you work for me!)

uptheboro79 Posted on 24/04/2008 17:55
Teachers going on strike

Teachers
Military
Police
Prison officers
Nurses
Fire Brigade

This governments managed to pi55 off just about every public sector worker in the land.

BillBones Posted on 24/04/2008 18:00
Teachers going on strike

Exactly. Couldn't go to Eindhoven, Glastonbury, Munich Beer Festival.

Mickey_2003 Posted on 24/04/2008 18:19
Teachers going on strike

Put it this way:

What if every teacher did decide to find another job outside of teaching? It would F*** the country up big style, as there would be no one to teach the kids. We would turn into a 3rd world country. Most of todays parents don't give 2 S***s (chav generation), so if the onus was put them, we'd be in a right mess.
Being a teacher is a thankless task and is also taken for granted.
I am just now starting to realise what a good job they are doing, given the circumstances.

Fabios_porkpie_provider Posted on 24/04/2008 18:21
Teachers going on strike

Those that can, do.
Those that can't, teach.

Many teachers have an overinflated opinion of themselves and their own importance. Makes me laugh that they complain about stress and pay. For their salaries, they don't know how good they've got it!!

Do us a favour and wake up and join the real world.

grantus Posted on 24/04/2008 18:23
Teachers going on strike

Well, it's over, I hope that they are proud of themselves.

Now then. No late night on the red wine tonight! Get back to work, you skiving, good for nothing, lazy, drain on the taxpayer, burnt out hippy and naive middle class bitches!

You have some children to teach tomorrow!

Bren_MFC Posted on 24/04/2008 18:28
Teachers going on strike

I'd love to see how long some of the people spouting off on here would last in front of a class of stroppy teenagers, I would to sit and watch them, that would be hilarious.

mailinator Posted on 24/04/2008 18:28
Teachers going on strike

Mickey, how come if you ever blame a teacher for the state of youth today, they come back with "it's entirely the parents fault" yet you seem to suggest that if teachers weren't there putting them right, the country would fall apart?

Any teacher who gets the job and is surprised at the pay needs to give their head a shake as do nurses.

Secondly, while the pay is not to their liking the F***ing holidays are brilliant. Forget about all this "doing marking" in the holidays. When they get 2 weeks over Easter they are not spending two weeks marking FFS and we haven't even mentioned the extra holidays in the summer. My point is, working conditions are not just about pay.

Thirdly, I am getting a little sick of nurses, fireman and teachers telling us all what an important job they do yet the moment they don't get their own way they threaten to withdraw that service. It's blackmail, no other way of looking at it. If they were doing such a thankless task, then they'd never even threaten a strike, never mind actually go through with it.

Thanks to these dedicated teachers, my son has missed a days education. Why? Because someone wanted to hold the taxpayer to ransom for MONEY. Remember that the next time you label parents as chavs because I do what is best for my family, not whatever brings me the most coin.

neilg Posted on 24/04/2008 18:31
Teachers going on strike

mailinator - theres a consensus thats appeared on here: if you want good teachers for the next generation, then you have to pay good money.support the teachers.

grantus Posted on 24/04/2008 18:32
Teachers going on strike

Hear hear.

Greedy B******s.

standards Posted on 24/04/2008 18:33
Teachers going on strike

Those that can do
those that cant teach

eh???

how can you do History without a tardis?

mailinator Posted on 24/04/2008 18:34
Teachers going on strike

I want good teachers and they already get good money. They just get a little P***ed off when they look around at their friends in the private sector who's income can be linked directly to commercial performance and get a little green-eyed when they spot the new cars, bigger houses or better holidays.

Rod100 Posted on 24/04/2008 18:43
Teachers going on strike

teachers dont start on 30k.

and if its such a piece of P*** why dont all you that think it is give it whirl? long holidays. 9am to 3.15pm. no weekends etc.

its not a piece of P*** and there are long hours. if you want to progress in the departments you have to do extra curricular stuff - DofE for example.

you have to be fully dedicated to the job.

many of the comments on here just go to show how ignorant of the facts the general public actually are.

Fabios_porkpie_provider Posted on 24/04/2008 18:43
Teachers going on strike

"I'd love to see how long some of the people spouting off on here would last in front of a class of stroppy teenagers, I would to sit and watch them, that would be hilarious."

Yeah, but that's a bit daft really isn't it, because given the relevant training that the teachers recieve i'm sure we'd cope.
It's like saying 'i'd love to stick a teacher in the middle of a warzone firefight and see how they'd cope........'

For me the point is they don't really have a whole lot to whinge about in the grand scheme of things, when compared to many other jobs/professions and salaries.

Rod100 Posted on 24/04/2008 18:48
Teachers going on strike

"For me the point is they don't really have a whole lot to whinge about in the grand scheme of things, when compared to many other jobs/professions and salaries."

please elaborate on that rather sweeping generalisation.

Fabios_porkpie_provider Posted on 24/04/2008 18:50
Teachers going on strike

Rod, i don't think anyone really thinks it's an easy job, and it's daft to suggest that it is.

While it's not as easy as is made out by some folk, it's by no means as hard or taxing as it's made out by others, when compared to other jobs, and so alot of people have no sympathy for the teachers arguments and gripes.

And while people are slightly ignorant of the facts, i'd say that could be said about pretty much ANY job and lets face it, most folk spend the first 16-18 years of their lives around teachers so aren't really as blind or ignorant to what a teacher does or the hours that they work than you make out....

Fabios_porkpie_provider Posted on 24/04/2008 18:54
Teachers going on strike

errr, i don't think that statement needs elaborating?Think it's pretty clear what i meant? Unless you are after examples of other jobs where people work longer hours in more stressful circumstances with similar training for similar salaries, but don't make a big song or dance of it...

Rod100 Posted on 24/04/2008 19:02
Teachers going on strike

fabio - are you a teacher?

i just find the sweeping generalisations on here born from ignorance of any facts to be honest.

Boroben Posted on 24/04/2008 19:04
Teachers going on strike

What a total load of rubbish. I'm an NQT in a difficult school in Rotherham where we deal with the lowest 5% of people in the U.K. Parents who can't afford the basics and pupils who couldn't give a f*ck. I often read comments from so called Boro fans who don't have a clue about football let alone the real world.

Teaching is the one of the most stressful professions and it's tremendously tiring mentally. I live with a joiner and although his job is hard labour his job is easy.

As for us being money grabbing etc etc It's total rubbish. I earn a basis rate of salary and have to put up with being sworn at on a regular basis.

Every job has it's ups and downs and for the idiots on here who think teaching is easy then lets see what job you do...most people on here will sit behind a desk on their a*rse all day. So don't talk rubbish.

Metaxa Posted on 24/04/2008 19:07
Teachers going on strike

If they get rid of teachers assitants then give them the pay rise, i remember my teacher managing nicely without help

Boroben Posted on 24/04/2008 19:09
Teachers going on strike

Another person who doesn't understand the facts. Teaching assistants are rare in many schools and often enough the schools can't cater for the needs of the individual pupils. Say you child has weak literacy or reading skills, lets just sack all the LSAs and PSAs and let them get on with it?

Rod100 Posted on 24/04/2008 19:09
Teachers going on strike

unfortunately due to large class sizes, teachers assistants are necessary - especially in mixed ability classes.

ffs - if it so easy all of you that are complaing you spend a term doing it.

Metaxa Posted on 24/04/2008 19:12
Teachers going on strike

blah blah blah, bring back the cane then the teachers will be able to manage.

teachers have a stressful job my arse, try running a business at the moment, then you will no what stress is.

Fabios_porkpie_provider Posted on 24/04/2008 19:12
Teachers going on strike

Rod, i'm not a teacher.

BoroBen, you have a go at people saying your job is easy (which i don't think it is, by the way) and then you call someone elses job easy......how's that work then?

Teaching is one of the most stressful professions. Hhhmmmmmm.

I just think you lot do yourselves no favours with some of the things you whinge about and generally have very little sympathy

Esekiel1517 Posted on 24/04/2008 19:12
Teachers going on strike

We all have tough jobs whatever sphere you work in so that is no argument.

I was under the impression that teachers are being offered a pay rise alongside the rate of inflation?If that is correct,considering the current economic climate,would that not seem fair?

I know that the civil service had a similar offer,they bleated but accepted it,maybe you should too?

Some folk dont know when there bread is buttered.

smogette Posted on 24/04/2008 19:13
Teachers going on strike

Well said Boroben [:)]

Boroben Posted on 24/04/2008 19:14
Teachers going on strike

If teaching had gone up with inflation we'd be earning another 30%. People don't have a clue, running a business can be difficult and stressful however I'd love to be in the position to be able to afford to run my own business. Every job has it's difficulties but you can hardly compare office work to teaching.

Rod100 Posted on 24/04/2008 19:15
Teachers going on strike

if you trust or believe in statistics, then you will find that teaching is very high on the list of most stressfull vocations, and has a high suicide rate too.

i thoroughly recommend any of you trying to teach in a poor school, with S*** facilities and kids that couldn't give a F***.

you'll get an insight into it then.

Fabios_porkpie_provider Posted on 24/04/2008 19:16
Teachers going on strike

...you can't compare office work to teaching, but you can compare teaching to joinery?? HOw's that work Ben????

Revol_Tees Posted on 24/04/2008 19:16
Teachers going on strike

The initial point was about affordability of the public sector pay rises.

I therefore look forward to similarly outraged threads about the affordability of allowing £41 billion a year to be lost in unpaid taxes by the top 700 hundred corporations in the UK. And the affordability of the £50 billion plus to be made available to banks to protect them from the credit crunch. Etc. etc.

Plenty of money around in the economy, but it's only a scandal when ordinary people demand a fair share.

Metaxa Posted on 24/04/2008 19:17
Teachers going on strike

Oh teachers are so hard done by. stop bleating get back to work and stop putting families that are all ready under pressure, under pressure they dont need,
do teachers realise the problems they have caused today, my wife had to take a day off work losing money. so thanks a lot.


Boroben Posted on 24/04/2008 19:17
Teachers going on strike

I wasn't comparing teaching to joinery. Teaching is tough mentally but not very physically demanding. Joinery is easy mentally but physically hard labour. Fabio what job do you do?

Boroben Posted on 24/04/2008 19:18
Teachers going on strike

I wasn't on strike btw;)

Rod100 Posted on 24/04/2008 19:18
Teachers going on strike

fabio - he never compared them per se.

he said that joinery is more of a physical occupation; teaching more 'mental' - no pun intended; more fatiguing on the mind.


Metaxa Posted on 24/04/2008 19:19
Teachers going on strike

So joinery is easy mentally?

please explain? i can see you have never put a traditional hipped roof on a house that is out of square.

Joinery is one of the hardest trades on a building site,

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 24/04/2008 19:20
Teachers going on strike

I think its a bit hypocritical to lambast the teachers for trying to get a fair deal, not to mention the fact that its a flawed arguement to appose their claim just because its public money.

Yes they are asking for an unreasonable amount, but given the governments recent track record with public sector pay awards the teachers union know full well that the settlement will be very much a compromise. Didn't the police get 1.9% in the end?

Pinkers Posted on 24/04/2008 19:20
Teachers going on strike

Boroben - Depends what kind of office work it is. My mate plans multi-million pound production every day. If he messes up he is in big trouble. That is stressful and his pay is rubbish. He works 8 - 6ish most days and brings work home every night. Oh and, 25 days holiday a year. Is that tougher than being a teacher? Maybe and maybe not, but teachers need to accept that with the holidays they get, they must expect there to be other drawbacks. All jobs have their downsides, and teaching has some big plusses to offset them.

Rod100 Posted on 24/04/2008 19:21
Teachers going on strike

good for you ben.

we may be getting balloted for strike action too.

they have offerred us 5% on top of our salaries if we agree to do 81 weekend shifts, and 44 weeks of nights.

last year i did approx 53 weekend shifts and 3 weeks of nights and earned about another 40% of my salary on top.

the RMT and TSSA dont want to strike, but when networkrail are offering so poor figures what other choice do we have?

Bren_MFC Posted on 24/04/2008 19:21
Teachers going on strike

'Oh teachers are so hard done by. stop bleating get back to work and stop putting families that are all ready under pressure, under pressure they dont need,
do teachers realise the problems they have caused today, my wife had to take a day off work losing money. so thanks a lot'

Can't beat a bit of emotional blackmail.

Boroben Posted on 24/04/2008 19:22
Teachers going on strike

I went and did Laquing (sp) for 3 days with him and you cannot compare it mentally to teaching. Once you have the skills, you adjust to the situations you find yourself in.

Every job has it's difficulties but I feel the need to stick up for my profession. I wasn't in favour of the strike as it won't achieve anything, however I do feel we should earn more for the sh*t we have to put up with.

Rod100 Posted on 24/04/2008 19:22
Teachers going on strike

joinery - one of the hardest trades on a building site. strange the brickies say the same thing; and the pipe stranglers and the sparks.


grantus Posted on 24/04/2008 19:23
Teachers going on strike

"If teaching had gone up with inflation we'd be earning another 30%."
They'd be going on strike for more holidays, or free school lunches, if that was the case, no doubt.

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 24/04/2008 19:24
Teachers going on strike

The thing is ben that everyone thinks they should earn more for the work they do, so that as an arguement alone doesn't hold much water.

Boroben Posted on 24/04/2008 19:25
Teachers going on strike

Lol Grantus. The NUT have a history of causing trouble. There are different pressures with every job but we deserve the holidays we have due to the mental pressures we are put under everyday.

The politics in many schools can be tiring along with the day to day running of it.

goalscrounger Posted on 24/04/2008 19:27
Teachers going on strike

This one is going to "to and fro" all night (week?) without any indication of a winner. I remember a similar debate when the fire brigade last went on strike.

It seems certain professions (regardless of pay, conditions, preconceptions about the kind of people in that profession etc) will get stick whenever they poke their heads above the parapet. Consequently, the people in those professions can get very defensive when challenged.

This thread is a perfect example of that.

I've learned over the years not to waste my time over these kind of debates (especially as some people only post on here as a "wind-up" as they know teachers will take the bait [:)] ,others base their opinions solely on their bad experiences as pupils in schools many years before and others have no idea what the world of work outside of teaching is like). However, I'd just like to post a couple of responses to some things I've read and heard today on here and in the media.

Firstly, the "average teacher salary is over £30K". Fine. Can't argue with that. Not try calculating the "average CLASSROOM teacher salary" (i.e without any senior management wages in there) and you'll find it drops rather quickly.

Secondly, to pick up on what Pinkers said at 11:54 a.m:

"Well, I've worked in a school, (not as a teacher) and around half of the teachers were gone by 4pm".......and did you not notice the huge bags half of them carried home with them? Why sit in a tatty, freezing classroom with no kettle, toilet for miles when you can work at home instead? Perhaps some of them had to look after their own children and do their work once they'd put them to bed (as I do)?

"As for teachers coming in during the holidays, this was only a very small percentage in the school I worked at, and even those were Senior Management on 60k+"......must be a crap school then as these revision lessons are always run by the young, keen staff (who happen to need the money). The senior management only come in if no one else will to make sure the kids get the benefit. Oh, and which school was it?? I am senior management at a secondary school and I get paid a HELL of a lot less than 60K. You'd have to be a very long-serving Deputy Head at a HUGE school or a Headteacher at a small school to earn that much. And, unless you were bursar or the Head's P.A, how do you know what all the staff are on? I'd damned sure my salary isn't common knowledge around the non-teaching (or even the teaching!) staff at my school.

Lastly, my favourite quote from today, heard on 5Live this morning during a very fair and unbiased debate on the strike:

"I think it's disgraceful that teachers have gone on strike today. It's my birthday and my day has been ruined because I have to look after MY OWN children for the day"

Interestingly, I haven't heard a single parent express concerns that their child has been off today for educational reasons (although some pupils have made very eloquent cases for why the strike has effected them in this way), they've all been because they have had to look after their children.

Are we there to educate the next generation or simply to babysit them while the current generation get on with doing their own jobs (or in the case of the woman on 5Live, get on with going out for "lunch")??


Rod100 Posted on 24/04/2008 19:31
Teachers going on strike

an excellent post.

teachers are not only expected to teach now, but parent too.

when i was doing my PGCE mothers would be dragging their kids through the gates and you could hear them saying "wait till mr so and so see's you - he'll square you up".

will i hell - nothing to do with me what they did at home. they're your kids - bring them up.

but thats a whole different ball game.

Fabios_porkpie_provider Posted on 24/04/2008 19:38
Teachers going on strike

i work in a professional industry where the responsibilities and pressures can be immense, with 1000s of lives at risk. Whats more, WHEN i'm working, i work minimum 70 hour week, for 4 months or more, without a SINGLE day off, not even xmas, new year etc. In addition, i never get more than 8 hours off consecutively in that 4 months.seriuosly. I'm on call 24 hours a day. I'm completely away from family and friends and half the time i can't even call them, let alone see them. Accomodation is often tiny and substandard, as is food. The job is dangerous and has high rates of suicide and alcoholism after retirement. The money at junior to middle positions is similar to teachers. The training for the first qualification takes between 3 and 4 years, and then training is on going for the rest of career, with many more exams to be undertaken to progress up the ranks.
If i have a bad day at work, i could kill 1000s and cause the loss of 100s of millions of pounds of stuff and massive pollution incidents. I could also easily be fined over 1 million euros and locked up for 2 years just for doing my job wrong.
Whatsmore, in this industry there are many folk ( granted, generally not British or working for British companies) who will work longer hours, in vastly substandard conditions for upto and over a year at a time, for literally less than a mcdonalds burger maker.

In the past i've suffered conscutive 'pay freezes' whilst working for one of the biggest companies in this sector, in the world. Unfortunately, in this industry you can't strike because if everyone did the world would literally grind to a halt and the world economy collapse. And i don't work in the armed forces.
I do actually love my job but it's not everybodys idea of a laugh.

I know it's a bit of a rant but my point is that there are far worse things and professions out there, with a far higher degree of public ignorance, but you don't see them all striking cos they are 'only' getting 2.45% or whinging about how hard it is.

Everyone has got hard jobs really, in their own way, and i'm not saying mine is anyworse than yours, just that there are seemingly worse things you could be doing,so that's why i don't have much sympathy for the teachers 'plight'

goalscrounger Posted on 24/04/2008 19:39
Teachers going on strike

I had a phone call from a parent of a pupil from another school last year demanding to know what I was going to do about an incident between one of our pupils and her son at 9 o' clock on a Saturday night at a party over 5 miles from our school!!

I was impressed at how polite and professional I was with that conversation.

Bren_MFC Posted on 24/04/2008 19:41
Teachers going on strike

Everybody would soon complain if the teachers starting leaving the profession hand over fist.

goalscrounger Posted on 24/04/2008 19:42
Teachers going on strike

F_p_p

What do you do? Run some sort of Nuclear Weapon Silo??

I found myself reading that in the "Four Yorkshiremen" accent and skipped to the bottom looking for the bit that said "...and you tell kids that today and they don't believe you" !!

Sounds horrendous.

Bren_MFC Posted on 24/04/2008 19:42
Teachers going on strike

Everybody would soon complain if the teachers starting leaving the profession hand over fist.

goalscrounger Posted on 24/04/2008 19:42
Teachers going on strike

Bren, you could say that about nurses, firemen, cheesemakers, telephone box sanitisers etc etc though too.

Fabios_porkpie_provider Posted on 24/04/2008 19:55
Teachers going on strike

goalscounger, sorry to disappoint i'm in the merchant navy.running a nucleur silo would be far more exciting! Basically i drive cruise ships at the minute but it could be any type of ship, and it's not a bad job at all really,far from it, but not everyone could hack it

Working on a ship sounds lovely,but the reality is different. Im not saying i have a hard job,or it's anymore dificult than teaching. I was trying to illustrate that we don't all know everything about every job so people can't say that their job is harder or more stressful than the next mans.

I'm sure if i said ' i'm in the merchant navy and work on ships' some people would think 'lucky buggar - that sounds mint!'

Pinkers Posted on 24/04/2008 20:00
Teachers going on strike

goalscrounger - Great post, some good points there (19.27) [:)]

To answer some of your points - actually it's a high achieving school in an affluent area (I'm not going to name it though). You are right that a handful of young keen staff did do revision sessions in the summer holidays. They lasted a couple of hours, over only a few days. Not much of a dent in a holiday of that magnitude.

Yes, don;t get me wrong, I'd be off home at 4pm if I could and I'm sure some do worrk at home afterwards. The fact remains going home at that time is not even an option for most other jobs, whether it's to work or not!

How do I know wages? I'm an IT professional and when you run MIS software there's nothing you can't find out. I also have a friend who works in a similar role at a school in the region. The head there was on £75k two years ago, other SMT 60+. I also recall seeing the headship for Gillbrook advertised a year or two back - the salary was circa 82k.




Esekiel1517 Posted on 24/04/2008 20:09
Teachers going on strike

The rate of inflation is fair,without strike action.

Deal,or no deal?

Warwick_Hunt Posted on 24/04/2008 20:15
Teachers going on strike

Another five days out on strike for all teachers will mean the government can then turn round and give the extra 1.5% without it costing us anything.

Jobs a good un.

goalscrounger Posted on 24/04/2008 20:25
Teachers going on strike

Gillbrook have had to pay WAY over the odds to recruit, a sign of how tough a job it can be in some schools. As far as I was aware, the Head there is on even more than that (and the Deputy is not far behind).

I'd be amazed if the wage bill was on SIMS, although if you were at the school I think you were (is it in R&C authority?) then I believe they have operated their own payroll for a few years so I guess they would need to have the data.

f_p_p, no. There is no debate. Your job is far S***tier than mine!! [:D]

Piggy Posted on 24/04/2008 20:26
Teachers going on strike

Sometimes I think they must have a great job, all those apples brought in for them and the chance to be top scorer when you join in Year 7 basketball.

But then I remember that they cant idle away their day on here like a lot of us do, getting by on maybe an hours effort or so.

Everybody out.

goalscrounger Posted on 24/04/2008 20:27
Teachers going on strike

Join in year seven basketball??!!

What, and have some of the "parents of today" call you a paedophile??

Next you'll be suggesting we video the school play or ask pupils to bring a photo of themselves as a baby in.


Sicko.

Esekiel1517 Posted on 24/04/2008 20:28
Teachers going on strike

Love the way the rest of the Unions havent shifted,funny that!:-)

goalscrounger Posted on 24/04/2008 20:29
Teachers going on strike

Yay, 200!!

Dibzzz Posted on 24/04/2008 20:29
Teachers going on strike

I bet the pubs across the country were busier than usual today.
Nice little day off for them,,,,maybe they could have used the valuable time off to plan their lessons?

Why can't they strike on these 'Teacher training days' which there seem to be a myriad of these days,,,non of that when I was at school.


neilg Posted on 24/04/2008 20:29
Teachers going on strike

200 not out!

Esekiel1517 Posted on 24/04/2008 20:31
Teachers going on strike

Bless them,the stress!

Piggy Posted on 24/04/2008 20:31
Teachers going on strike

[:D]

Seriously? You wouldnt get a game these days? I think at my school some of the non PE teachers only stuck the job because they could live out their sports manager/player fantasies.

And very grateful to them I was too.

Bren_MFC Posted on 24/04/2008 20:32
Teachers going on strike

Strike on a Teacher Training Day, thats really going to have a dispruptive effect.

goalscrounger Posted on 24/04/2008 20:32
Teachers going on strike

Would kind of defeated the point dibbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Perhaps a Sunday strike would be more effective next time??

Esekiel1517 Posted on 24/04/2008 20:34
Teachers going on strike

Piggy,would they strike though?

goalscrounger Posted on 24/04/2008 20:34
Teachers going on strike

We've played volleyball piggy, that's (almost) guaranteed non-contact. The days of staff v pupils at almost everything have been killed by paedonoia and health & safety regs.

Esekiel1517 Posted on 24/04/2008 20:36
Teachers going on strike

What does that have to do with striking,Goalscrounger?

goalscrounger Posted on 24/04/2008 20:37
Teachers going on strike

It doesn't.

It has to do with the discussion piggy and I were having on here.

Esekiel1517 Posted on 24/04/2008 20:39
Teachers going on strike

You two look stressed,have a holiday.

Piggy Posted on 24/04/2008 20:39
Teachers going on strike

Thats a pity.

Right I'm off now for my own 'old bloke v kids' football at Goals. They are safe though, all too ugly for me to touch up.

Rod100 Posted on 24/04/2008 20:41
Teachers going on strike

Esekiel1517 - you sound short of ideas. i suggest reading the sun tomorrow then come back to the debate.

goalscrounger Posted on 24/04/2008 20:42
Teachers going on strike

We look stressed? Perhaps you should lay off the porn ezekiel, all that self-abuse is obviously affecting your eyesight.

Esekiel1517 Posted on 24/04/2008 20:45
Teachers going on strike

AWW,you poor babies,i suggest a week off on Full pay.There,There.

goalscrounger Posted on 24/04/2008 20:49
Teachers going on strike

And so the intellectual level of the discussion heightens thanks to our master debater.

Rod100 Posted on 24/04/2008 20:51
Teachers going on strike

its 8.50pm. obviously been on the drink.

Dibzzz Posted on 24/04/2008 21:02
Teachers going on strike

Suppose it is hard to squeeze a day in for a strike what with all the holidays they get.

BillBones Posted on 24/04/2008 22:35
Teachers going on strike

I'm surprised there are still dinosaurs out there who think teachers finish at ten past three and don't do any work in their holidays. All C****neys wear pearly suits and all northerners have flat caps and whippetts. FFS.

ridsdale Posted on 24/04/2008 22:41
Teachers going on strike

So, for all those who think teaching is a piece of pish, who would you have teaching your own children?

And why is it that the middle classes go to such ultra lengths to get THEIR kids into the best schools.

Seems to me that poor teachers are O.K. for everyone else's children, but not your own.


Esekiel1517 Posted on 24/04/2008 23:09
Teachers going on strike

Easy RIDS,whilst the ne're do wells are striking they can teach my kids on the minimum wage.