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boro-is-in-my-blood Posted on 22/04/2008 17:56
got a email from mfc today with regards to st prices

come from dave allan i assume its just a standard email sent, anyone else email the club??

PoetLaureate Posted on 22/04/2008 18:11
got a email from mfc today with regards to st prices

Copy and paste the reply mate [:)]

boro-is-in-my-blood Posted on 22/04/2008 18:44
got a email from mfc today with regards to st prices

Dear Mr ********,
Thank you for your email with regards to Middlesbrough FC's 2008-09 season card package. Please be assured that we do understand your concerns and we very much appreciate your feedback.

First of all, thank you for the positive feedback with regards to our new prices for young fans. Your comments regarding adult prices are understandable but I would point out that our adult season card prices remain very competitive with those of other Premier League clubs. As an example, in general adult prices at Birmingham City, Newcastle United, Everton, Manchester City, Reading, Liverpool, Manchester United, Portsmouth and all the London clubs are more expensive than ours.

However, at the same time, we recognised that our prices for younger fans were not competitive with other clubs and therefore introduced the new �95 season card for under-18s, which is designed to attract a new generation of supporters. A decision was made to reward our existing adult and over-65 season card holders by giving them opportunity to renew at 2007-08 prices - meaning they can pay the same price for a fourth successive year. In real terms, this means that prices remain the same as you would have paid in 2005 during a period when inflation, not to mention players' wages, transfer fees and other costs, have continued to rise.

Please be assured that your support as a season card holder is not only appreciated but vital to the club's ambitions of further success Premier League and cup success. Striking a a balance between remaining affordable to our supporters and achieving the revenue required to compete at the highest level is always difficult. However, we are committed to continuing to reinvest all income towards building a team the town can be proud of and revenue from season card holders like yourself is an important part of that.

May we thank you for your ongoing support and ask that you continue to back the club in 2008-09. Only with your continued support, can the club realistically achieve the ambitions we all have for our team.

Yours sincerely,
Dave Allan
Media & Communications Manager
Tel: 01325 729916
Fax: 01325 729904
E-mail: dave.allan@mfc.co.uk

Middlesbrough Football Club, Rockliffe Park Training HQ, Hurworth Place, Nr Darlington, Co. Durham, DL2 2DU

This transmission is intended for the named addressee only. It contains information which may be confidential and which may also be privileged. Unless you are the named addressee (or authorised to receive it for the addressee) you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to any one else. We accept no liability for any viruses and it is the responsibility of the recipients to perform any necessary scanning and/or removal. If you receive this message in error, please reply to the message, forward It to the correct party, or call our main line on +44 1642 877700.







Middlesbrough Football Club Training Headquarters, Rockliffe Park, Hurworth Place, Nr Darlington, DL2 2DU


HolgateEnd Posted on 22/04/2008 19:03
got a email from mfc today with regards to st prices

Standard issue mate. If your issue was with the price of adult tickets, you should reply and say his response wasn't good enough and hasn't really explained why the prices weren't reduced. The football has gotten worse, and we've lost 7500 fans on 4 years ago. So why do the club not see that the simple answer is to lower adult ticket prices? Its all well and good lowering kids ticket prices, but the kids aren't going to be allowed to go without an adult. And the adult is still going to feel that 390 (or 550 in the west) is not value for money with what Boro have put on show in the league for the last 10 years.

boro-is-in-my-blood Posted on 22/04/2008 19:10
got a email from mfc today with regards to st prices

my email speciffically said like compairable clubs like blackburn and the like, similar to size and ilk, as the other clubs like portsmouth and london clubs the wages earned by the fans are a lot greater then ours and to be honest reading apart their teams are also better!!i also asked ow blacburn par 249 lowest price = to north stand at boro, and 399 the jack walker stand=to our west stand, got no reponse to that question at all







HolgateEnd Posted on 22/04/2008 19:17
got a email from mfc today with regards to st prices

If I were you mate, I honestly would respond. Tell them that they have not related their response to the club you mentioned, and what you said about being better. Tell them you don't think their response is good enough and see what you get back.

karembeu_ca Posted on 22/04/2008 19:22
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

"So why do the club not see that the simple answer is to lower adult ticket prices? "

and who says this is the "simple answer" ??? what proof do you have that lowering prices would mean an increase in attendances? more importantly, what proof do you have that lowering ticket prices would NOT see a reduction in revenue for the club - which could lead to a worse team, and in turn lower attendances.

HolgateEnd Posted on 22/04/2008 19:35
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Karembeu, of course the simple answer is to reduce ticket prices. We've lost 7500+ fans on our average attendance, and approx 4000 of those were season ticket holders. I've based my opinion on talking to ex season ticket holders I know, listening to the radio, going on the various message boards etc, time and time again people keep saying they're not getting their season ticket because its too expensive.

I don't have any proof, you're right, but surely thats where the business planning and market research should come in at the club. What the club should have done, or what I would have done if I was them, would be to post a letter/questionnaire to every ex season ticket holder on their database asking why they don't go anymore. I'd bet every penny I've got that 70% or more of those would say "because its too expensive". People would find the extra money if the football was good, like they do at Man U/Arsenal etc, or like our fans did between 95-98. But the simple fact is that the league football at MFC has not been good enough to warrant charging more than Blackburn Rovers who have been in Europe this season and are an established top half team.

I think lots of people expected some sort of price cut this year, so I wouldn't be at all surprised to see another drop in season ticket holders now that this hasn't materialised. And as has been said by someone else on another thread, the club need 4 Under 18s to sign up for every 1 lost adult ST holder. I just cant see that happening.

boro-is-in-my-blood Posted on 22/04/2008 19:37
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

not so much a increase in attenances karembeu but more likely would not lose as many st holders as without the reduction, i have missed a handful of games since 1984 and am getting a st next year but only just so if they have made me hard about getting one then i think the more johnny come lateleys will not be getting one simply as i dont htink we had a representation of value to money this season.

boro-is-in-my-blood Posted on 22/04/2008 19:39
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

holgateend 100% agreed mate hit the nail on the head.

junouk Posted on 22/04/2008 19:46
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Got to say I agree.

I think a reduction in ST prices would have persuaded the ADULTS who will leave to stay. I think the number of ST sold next year will be very similar to this year. You will lose a few thousand adults and gain a few thousand kids. What they should be doing is increasing the number of ST holders.

I dont know the answer and I am sure the club dont either. The three year ticket has stopped any reduction in price. Having not offered a discount on the three year ticket means they would not be able to reduce the price for the next three seasons at least, no matter what league we are in. The only advantage to the three year deal is if we get relegated. 20 per game and you play 5 games more( I think) so you save 100 per year.

HolgateEnd Posted on 22/04/2008 19:50
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Here's a quick sum for you, and of course its only speculation as I dont know the actual current numbers. But I seriously think that if the club offered season tickets at 300 they could sell maybe 20,000 - which equates to 6mil. Or based on my belief that they could well go down to 15,000 this season at 390 each equals 5.85mil.

Obviously this is only speculation and is only based on adult tickets, and will vary by how many kids tickets are sold etc, but you get the general gist. The club would be able to do a more accurate sum based on the age of past ST holders etc and by doing a bit of research. The simple fact is that if people think its value for money, they will pay it. If they dont, they wont. And over the last 4 years, 7500+ people have obviously decided they dont feel an MFC season ticket is worth it.

In my opinion, the club could easily have done this (even put it down to 350) and openly said it was a trial for 1 season to gauge response and that if the fans didnt respond they'd have no option but to put them back to this years prices to continue to compete in the premier league. Instead, they have kept them the same and given everyone just 3 weeks to find hundreds/thousands of pounds.

Lets face it, Blackburn are a lot better team than us at the moment, and they've managed to beat our season ticket price by 150, so I'd say someone at MFC is doing something wrong.

boro-is-in-my-blood Posted on 22/04/2008 20:02
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

at last some one who speaks sense and am sick of all the people saying oh blah blah its only 400 quid what you crying about cause obviously they well off and dont have to worry about mortgage payments food for their kids etc etc.

ccole Posted on 22/04/2008 20:12
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Blackburn and Bolton reduced prices for this season. Attendances have still dropped.

What makes you think ubhappy sesaon ticket holders in Middlesbrough will still renew if they drop the prices?

boredreceptionist Posted on 22/04/2008 21:00
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Is money really the only reason people don't come or is it because it is generally a crap experience? There is no atmosphere at all compared to 10 years ago. I used to love going to the match and singing my heart out. There is rarely a chant now. If money was the only issue you would still get a decent amount of floating fans attending on a match by match basis instead of forking out for a season card. I don't know if this happens or not because it is all season cards where I sit.
From a personal point of view I'm in a unique position my parents live abroad and I use their season cards. They are renewing next year and will probably see a few games at Christmas. If they hadn't renewed I would have been upset but not in a position to get my own so would have probably picked my matches.

junouk Posted on 22/04/2008 21:35
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

You have to have disposable income to justify paying for a ST. As someone else posted mortgage, kids etc come first. I get a ticket every year at the expense of a holiday. The last four times I have been abroad it has been for a few days only. OK it was watching us in Europe tho.

Most people who can afford to go are in general emmm a little older lol. I have to admit I do not tend to sing as much as I used to. But i am also driving after the game so am usually sober unlike when I was younger.

Bringing a lot of kids in to the ground cheap might be away of creating some atmosphere. Not sure it is going to be positive tho. Seating has stopped the atmosphere IMO. Very few home teams create any where near as much atmosphere as they used to.

I have not worked out what the club are trying to do with the prices. Bring in more kids create an atmosphere i think. FANTASTIC but at what cost. They have just not thought about the people in the club who want to sit and watch a team they have supported for longer than the riverside has been around. It is usually these people with the most money to spend at the club so they have priced there tickets as high as they think they can get away with. We are going to go no matter what price. We have to justify it with the misses thats all. The fact the football is not as good as it was ten years ago. As I keep saying watching the Boro is like going to the dentist, you dont really want to go but you know you have to. Most of the time I love it and will keep paying year in year out but as soon as I feel ripped off or the football is played week in week out like it was on Saturday or Cardiff then no matter what they charge me I will not be going.

Oooo Posted on 22/04/2008 21:39
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Its tough to get the money together by May 11th - they should have had a later date. I am struggling to find it myself and may end up not renewing

boredreceptionist Posted on 22/04/2008 21:44
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

I think the deadline is too tight. I have a mortgage and am dead worried about it as my deal runs out in August - 5.24% at the moment who knows what I'll have to pay in a few months. I have very little left over as it is. If it wasn't for my parents being out of the country I wouldn't be able to go every week.
When it was a sell out no one dared give up their tickets because there was a good chance you wouldn't be able to go on a match by match basis. The incentive to get a season card isn't really there. An Eindhoven situation isn't likely to occurr in the near future.

BenJammin Posted on 22/04/2008 22:01
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Why do you ask why its more expensive than at blackburn. Why don't you ask why its cheaper than Reading, blackburn or one of the other 10 odd clubs its cheaper at?

Also if its just about the price, how come we don't sell out every time its 10 a ticket in the cup? Why didn't reducing prices work for Blackburn or Bolton.

If Boro is in your blood then I'd say 20 a game is a pretty decent price.

Shaun71 Posted on 22/04/2008 22:05
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Everyone keeps harping on about Blackburns prices. Its not exactly boosted their attendances this year by much. That 250 price you allude to is for 1 area. Its also their early bird price, they have to renew earlier than us. April 30th. After this date the price is hiked up

boro-is-in-my-blood Posted on 22/04/2008 23:07
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

only one area??/ damn man there dearest area which is equivelent to our west stand upper is only 9 pound more then our early price in the north stand so give your head a shake as i think that is mighty value 4 money seem as tho they consistently finish higher then us as well!!! and to show how much your missing the point if our dedline was apr30th like theirs but with the same price 249 as theirs mine would be payed now.

Shaun71 Posted on 22/04/2008 23:17
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

So you know how much it goes up too do you, after April 30th.

The fact is by slashing their prices this year hasnt made a difference at all to their crowds. Same with Wigan, in fact theirs has dropped.

Maybe a token 10-20 off the prices might have been appreciated but would it have affected crowds next year. Im guessing not one bit


bear66 Posted on 22/04/2008 23:53
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

"Blackburn and Bolton reduced prices for this season. Attendances have still dropped."

They are 11.8% higher at Blackburn this season - a similar rise for us would be averaging 31000 this season! I don't think they are that high are they . . . .

ccole Posted on 23/04/2008 00:50
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

My uncderstanding is that Blackburn and Bolton are both around 2000 down on last years average.

Where did you get your figures?

Fletch Posted on 23/04/2008 06:48
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Where on the terms and conditions of the season ticket does it give a guarantee of value for money or entertainment level?

I am convinced if they gave the season tickets away for free some on here would still complain (Why no taxi thrown in? etc) about it and we still wouldn't get a full house.

And by the way boro-is-in-my-blood have you ever thought of changing your user name or football team allegiances?

BenJammin Posted on 23/04/2008 08:37
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

"And by the way boro-is-in-my-blood have you ever thought of changing your user name or football team allegiances?"

I've heard season tickets at Blackburn are quite cheap!

captain5 Posted on 23/04/2008 09:15
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

During our most successful times, under McClaren, was when the majority of the gone aways, erm, gone away.

The club did carry out market research, including with fans who stopped going and the concensus seemed to be that it would be difficult to get those fans back and they'd be better off going after the next generation.

skiprat Posted on 23/04/2008 09:25
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Blackburns are up this year, about 1800 last time I checked the average, whiel Bolton was DOWN about 2400 from last season.

This to me says more than anything that it's the performances on the pitch that influence the attendances.

BenJammin Posted on 23/04/2008 09:32
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Personally I'd be absolutely disgusted if the club reduced season ticket prices so we have the cheapest in the league.

I want the club to have ambition and I think they do. If we want to be buying the best players (like Alves) then we can't expect to have cheaper ticket prices than Derby, Fulham and Bolton.

Fair enough Blackburn have done well the last season or two on cheap prices but I think thats a different argument. They haven't done well because of the cheap prices but because the manager has made some shrewd signings (Santa Cruz) and forged a good team. If Hughes can sustain it over a few years then fair play to him, but as it stands over the last 10 years we have had more success (weren't Blackburn relegated in that period) than them. Arguing the relative merits of Southgate v Hughes is a different debate than the price of season tickets.

bosshogg Posted on 23/04/2008 09:45
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

In the current economic climate of everything costing more, mortgages, fuel, food and the general cost of living, the club have not tried to help the approx 80% of season ticket holders aged over 21!!

Adult renewals at the same prices and people having to find the money by May 11th means even more adult season ticket holders will be lost IMO!!

captain5 Posted on 23/04/2008 09:46
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Is that 80% including those who don't have kids, Boss??

skiprat Posted on 23/04/2008 10:03
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

I think that's 80% of the plucked out of thin air regulars captain.

London_Boro Posted on 23/04/2008 10:07
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

So have adult ST's gone up or have the prices been frozen again?

heaton_mersey_boro Posted on 23/04/2008 10:08
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

"Blackburns are up this year, about 1800 last time I checked the average, whiel Bolton was DOWN about 2400 from last season"

Now, wonder why this could be? Blackburn doing very well in the PL and challenging for a UEFA spot.....Bolton having a shyte season could be relegated. Hmmmmmmm.

The only way we will get the crowds back is by making the matchday experience enjoyable, playing good football, battling for 90mins, and ultimately winning matches. Until this happens we will be stuck with the huge amount of appathy and malaise surrounding the club.

Not rocket science is it?

bosshogg Posted on 23/04/2008 10:11
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Of course it was plucked out of thin air, hence the use of the word 'approx'!

If that's all you can pick out to pull apart then I guess I must have a fairly valid point!

skiprat Posted on 23/04/2008 10:15
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

How much would you have liked to be taken off a season ticket Hogg?

50? Won't have made any difference imo, as the price drops at Bolton have shown and as Heaton's just pointed out, ticket prices aren't the be all and end all.

20.56 for a game is a brilliant price compared to others in the league, I don't understand why the club takes so much flak for it (Well I do, Boro have a massive set of whining fans who complain about everything).

captain5 Posted on 23/04/2008 10:20
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Can you answer my point, Boss??

I am not quibbling about the 80% figure per say, but I do disagree that 80% of our fans will be unaffected by the figures.

My girlfriend's son has seen his ticket drop to 95, so rather than go match to match she's getting a season ticket with the money she'll save on his.

bosshogg Posted on 23/04/2008 10:33
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Skiprat, personally I think 50 would have been reasonable for someone like me who has to find 500 for my East upper ticket, but the bigger problem is the date you have to pay by!!

Captain, you understood my point about the 80%, so stop being pedantic! Of course some may benefit, but I believe they will still see a drop in adult season ticket holders regardless of the kids deals, which the club should be applauded for!

captain5 Posted on 23/04/2008 10:38
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

I'm not being pedantic in the slightest.

You are saying that 80% of our fans are in the group you highlight. I am saying that I will not call you on that, despite you admitting it's a wild estimation.

What I am saying is that I think a high proportion of that '80%' will be positively affected by the prices, as the overall cost to those people will be reduced.

Decent_Left Posted on 23/04/2008 10:41
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Captain, when you say they carried out Market Research, was it a proper project or was it getting a couple of groups along and having MFC staff chat to them. If it was an agency do you know which one?

captain5 Posted on 23/04/2008 10:42
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

I don't know who the agency was, but it was an independent agency.

It was done properly (in marketing terms anyway); it wasn't just Dave Allan and Mat Emmerson inviting a few folks round for a chat.

Decent_Left Posted on 23/04/2008 10:54
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Thanks Captain. At least the strategy of recruitment of the next generation is understandable now. However the tactic of getting the existing regulers to pay up earlier remains baffling.

bear66 Posted on 23/04/2008 10:57
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Hi ccole

I worked out the average from this season from their web page - there's still Derby to go which may drop the average but not by much as it's the last home game. Last season's were found by googling.

Away support appears to be lower across the division which makes the increase look even better. I haven't checked Bolton but with their style of football and their position in the league you're probably right there

skiprat - they're up about 2500 now - Man U helped!

Critical_Bill Posted on 23/04/2008 10:59
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

I see Vickers didn't credit any board members whose views helped him write yesterdays article.

skiprat Posted on 23/04/2008 11:01
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

I'm just wondering how people are paying for their season tickets in the first place?

Me and my brother stick 10 away a week and at the moment have 450 each to pay for next seasons tickets, lucky us.

Are people here paying for theirs in one go, or saving a bit over a course of months? If it's the latter then surely you only need the extra of one more months savings?

Thanks god we aren't some of the other clubs who's early bird deadline has already passed.

onthemap Posted on 23/04/2008 11:03
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

So because Man Utd and co overcharge, it's fine for us to.

I'll remember that one.

psj1982 Posted on 23/04/2008 11:07
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Now then Scott,

I wish I took you up on putting 10/week away!

I've got to fork out the 390 in a couple of weeks!

Are you keeping your same seats? I think I'm going to move from my seat that's all, Daz isn't renewing his ticket.

I'll have to get your seat details off you before I put my application in.

skiprat Posted on 23/04/2008 11:11
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Yeah give me a shout mate, me and Neil are on about staying in the same seats but we might move over to where you are. I'll have a word with him and see what he fancies.

We're going to Sunderland on Saturday with the extra over the 390 we have!

bosshogg Posted on 23/04/2008 11:11
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

I've always tried to pay in one go, but now they have moved the deadline by a month it conflicts with car tax, house insurance, tv licence etc etc, where it never used to....


Critical_Bill Posted on 23/04/2008 11:13
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Exactly bosshog.
Lets not forget final payments on holidays etc.

This earlybird deadline is the worst thing about the whole renewal carry on.

skiprat Posted on 23/04/2008 11:17
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Which is fair enough lads. If that was me in your shoes I'd pay it on the 27th of June BossHogg, when it's only going to be 20 more (Just over 1 a game more?)

Plenty of time to get it together over the next few months.

psj1982 Posted on 23/04/2008 11:19
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Don't you lose your season card status though if you buy it on the later date?

I wouldn't fancy losing my A-code!

captain5 Posted on 23/04/2008 11:25
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

No, you don't.

Gains Posted on 23/04/2008 11:37
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Dave Allan waffles on about rising wages and costs, but fails to mention the extra millions of TV money the club have got. A small fraction could have been passed onto the fans but as always, they try to shoe horn every last penny out of us. Another own goal I reckon.

bosshogg Posted on 23/04/2008 11:38
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

I don't think the club never thought the date change.....

...and that may cost them further loyal fans, who want to remain season ticket holders, who simply cannot afford it anymore with everything else that's going on in their lives within the current financial climate!

captain5 Posted on 23/04/2008 11:43
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Perhaps they should try and run the club on a non-profit basis.

bosshogg Posted on 23/04/2008 11:48
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

???????

captain5 Posted on 23/04/2008 11:50
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Well, they're robbing us that much they must be making an absolute fortune.

bosshogg Posted on 23/04/2008 11:54
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Who said they were robbing us? As much as a drop in price would have been nice, we were talking about the date change and the effect that may have!

Get your head out of the MFC sand!

captain5 Posted on 23/04/2008 11:55
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

And I was replying to Gains.

It's not all you you you, Boss [;)]

bosshogg Posted on 23/04/2008 11:58
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Fairy snuff Cap..

skiprat Posted on 23/04/2008 12:00
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

I'm just sending an email to CineWorld and Hollywood bowl to see if they'll drop the prices because of the credit crunch.

I wonder what their response might be.

Critical_Bill Posted on 23/04/2008 12:13
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

What a ridiculous comparison.

captain5 Posted on 23/04/2008 12:20
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

You don't think CineWorld and Hollywood Bowl are competing with each other, Bill??

Goodfella Posted on 23/04/2008 13:03
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Is it just me or in a world where everything is increasing in price petrol, food, booze, fags Boro keeping there prices the same as they were 5 years ago is a very good deal. We will have all got at least a standard of living pay rise every year

It just strikes me that most of the boro fans (ppl on this board) either haven't got a clue with there finances or need to get a new job. 39 a month for a season ticket is nout you can easily spend double that on 1 night out.

If they did for arguments sake knock it down to 300 you would save a massive 1.50 a week!!!!!

If you cant afford it right now, get a interest free credit card buy your season ticket, cut the card up then set up a direct debit every month to pay it off.

Or it could just be that ppl have fallen out of love with the boro and they need an excuse not to go.

Critical_Bill Posted on 23/04/2008 13:06
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

You can't go bowling at Cineworld, you fool. Nor can you watch a film at the Hollywwod Bowl.

skiprat Posted on 23/04/2008 14:51
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

"ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY"

If you don't like the prices, don't go. It's not rocket science.

boro-is-in-my-blood Posted on 23/04/2008 17:59
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

just for the record i got ANOTHER email from the club today with regards to my follow up, i dont think it was a standard one this time as i was asked politely to not broadcast it on message boards and the wot, must say i still dont agree with the club but you know how it is you still buy your st and with ref to benjamins comments what a complete divvy just because i think we are been giving one up the backside regarding our prices i should go support another club?? what sort of garbage is that??

karembeu_ca Posted on 23/04/2008 18:15
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

i'll ask again on here as no-one answered on the other threads.

what huge profit can the Boro use to fund this decrease in prices?
- none, we dont make a profit.

if you intend to use the extra TV money, what do we then use to buy players with to keep up with the other teams that will be buying with it?
- none. just to stay where we are we need to improve our squad to keep up.

what business model rewards existing customers instead of trying to get new ones?
- none. every business puts a much bigger chunk toward new customers than keeping the current ones happy, its all bean-counting.

now, can the club have done other things to make the 21-80 fans happy?
- imho, yes. free early round tickets or other incentives are fine, as they can generate revenue as well.

simply dropping prices is no guarantee of higher attendances, and may lead to a worse team. as much as we all hated his comments, that "team we deserve" comment is getting more true every day.

Buddy2 Posted on 23/04/2008 18:17
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

"i was asked politely to not broadcast it on message boards"

Were you really? What possible reason would they have for asking that? And how did they know you had "broadcast" the previous version?

kevcharben Posted on 23/04/2008 19:07
got a email from mfc today with regards to st prices

Just to pick up on a couple of points.

10% reduction - how many renewals who are waivering do you think that would encourage to carry on.
Cost to the the club between 800,000 & 1 Million.
There would have to be 3000 or so people who would have renewed ONLY if the 10% reduction was in place to make this viable. (I think not)
For that matter how many new ones would it get us?

The facts are (in my view) we have a core ammount of real supporters (ST Holders,)and we are somewhere near that mark now.
The kids / Youth prices are pitched about right to attempt to increase this core, but also keep the club at the same level.

All in all I think its a good deal, I've no doubt there will be clubs offering cheaper deals (but not many) but a massive more who will be far more expensive.

In regrads the TV money, we all get it so in order to compete we have to try and maximise our income to stay competative.

Couple that with the fact we probably have to pay more wages to players just to attract them because of our location, then it is even more important.

We only get what we pay for.


standards Posted on 23/04/2008 19:32
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

so non season ticket holders who attend games when they can are not real supporters, your flank of our Red Army is quite small.

boro-is-in-my-blood Posted on 23/04/2008 19:33
got a email from mfc today with regards to st prices

buddy because i told him in my second email and the email i got back he said it would be appreciated if the email was not broadcast on message boards.

Buddy2 Posted on 23/04/2008 19:39
got a email from mfc today with regards to st prices

Fair enough regarding how he knew, but why would he not want something he sent out relaying to other supporters? I would have thought it might save him sending a few e-mails at worst. Unless he's offered you 100 off your renewal. [:)]

kevcharben Posted on 23/04/2008 19:39
got a email from mfc today with regards to st prices

Standards.
Sorry I didn't mean for 1 second to malign non season tickets holders as core supporters.
I fully appreciate that there are some who atted most if not all games.
I was only relating to ST renewals as it dosen't apply to non ST holders.

standards Posted on 23/04/2008 19:42
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

ok I appreciate your polite response.

boro-is-in-my-blood Posted on 23/04/2008 19:42
got a email from mfc today with regards to st prices

i wished buddy would of cheered me up no end would that, thats my type of pr guy though lol

skiprat Posted on 23/04/2008 19:49
got a email from mfc today with regards to st prices

I think it's a bit galling myself for someone to expect a personal response and then go and post it all over the boards.

Not that anyone has here, but it's happened in the past.

Buddy2 Posted on 23/04/2008 19:53
got a email from mfc today with regards to st prices

I sort of see that skiprat, but the fact is that the board is a conduit for information (hence Rob gets press releases), and Dave Allan's job is to give official information.

To ask for it not to be re-broadcast sounds like he's talking to a journo "off the record", and the only reason I can think of for doing that is that he's saying something that he doesn't want to be wider knowledge - and that naturally leads me to want to know what it is. [:)]

boro-is-in-my-blood Posted on 23/04/2008 19:55
got a email from mfc today with regards to st prices

alright budy he said i can have mine for free next year for whinging so much lol. only joking mind!!!

HolgateEnd Posted on 23/04/2008 21:54
got a email from mfc today with regards to st prices

Standards, would a price drop for a season ticket entice you back, as I know you and your situation.

(By the way, one day mate, I might just pop round to get my tent(s) back that you brought home from Eindhoven!!)

Shaun71 Posted on 23/04/2008 21:55
got a email from mfc today with regards to st prices

May 11th isnt the date for renewals. Thats June 28th.

May 11th is just an 'earlybird' price as it says. It goes up 1 a game between May 11th and June 28th.

We keep saying we get millions and millions from TV and yes we do. However people dont really realise what our wage bill is, and last year we lost 13m.

We would be first to complain if there was a lack of activity in the transfer market.

HolgateEnd Posted on 23/04/2008 22:29
got a email from mfc today with regards to st prices

Shaun, this year each premier league team is getting in excess of 35mil from tv rights. That, on top of all our sponsorship deals, season ticket money, match day ticket money, burger/beer money etc etc should provide more than enough for the wage bill.

Having less season ticket holders is hardly going to improve the situation is it?

Gains Posted on 23/04/2008 22:37
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

captain5, nobody suggested they should run it on a non-profit making basis so stop being a sarcastic knob end.

But maybe 5% of the foreign tv cash windfall handed back to the fans with a ST reduction would have amounted to approx 1.5m.

Lets get carried away and suggest 30,000 people would buy season tickets next season, it would equate to a massive 50 reduction across the board. So even if you said a 30 reduction, it'd cost them even less out of the extra money they get over and above the Sky money. I personally would have been delighted they were including us in the windfall, even though it was in reality, a small lay out for them. Might have got more than their money back in extra sales too.

BenJammin Posted on 24/04/2008 07:48
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

"just because i think we are been giving one up the backside"

You think 20 a game to see your local team play in the Premier League constitutes being given one up the backside???

jam69 Posted on 24/04/2008 09:13
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

blackburns crowds have not dropped this season,they are up 2,000.i wonder if match day prices are going up?the club only seem bothered about having a seaso ticket sell out.for alot of people a season ticket is not practical

captain5 Posted on 24/04/2008 09:33
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Gains, you're living in cloud cuckoo land if you think the reductions you're talking about would work.

For a start you're on about extending them to new ST holders, which would have you up in arms at not getting a loyalty bonus.

My remark about 'non-profit' was alluding to the fact that we lost 17 million in the last financial year.

As with any business, they will apportion certain cost and revenue targets across the whole organisation and that includes income through the turnstile.

joebonano Posted on 24/04/2008 09:46
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Wigan and Bolton have cut prices.Crowds have reduced.Blackburn have cut prices and crowds have gone up.This simply proves it's more to do with performances and results rather than price.

Gains Posted on 24/04/2008 10:42
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

You may well be right, but the mood among the fans, certainly the ones I speak to, is that we would like to be appreciated and a token gesture of even 1m (which is not a lot to Boro) towards reducing ST prices would have been enough to make a lot more people renew.

Remember, a football club and its customers is not like in any other business.

captain5 Posted on 24/04/2008 10:44
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

As long as you understand that would be instead of and not as well as the reductions for youngsters.

How much would new ST holders pay??

skiprat Posted on 24/04/2008 11:43
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

"appreciated and a token gesture of even 1m (which is not a lot to Boro)"

I don't agree with this, I don't think we can afford to just write off a million.

They've obviously looked at Bolton and Blackburn, seen that it doesn't really make much difference dropping prices and have gone for a new market.

I don't see what the problem is, I can't think of any other business, especially in the "Entertainment industry" that gives you discount like some fans are expecting.

Fans begrudge paying some of the lowest ticket prices in the league and then DEMAND all Summer that Gibson splahes the cash. It says it all.

captain5 Posted on 24/04/2008 11:47
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

As mowbray_numbers_four said at one point, what Boro fans want is......


'Champions League football at Conference prices'

Critical_Bill Posted on 24/04/2008 11:50
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

And that's from one of the leaders of the '12th man', who don't address the real issues of the fans he's referring to.

captain5 Posted on 24/04/2008 11:51
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

He's right though.

standards Posted on 24/04/2008 12:08
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

I would price a conference ticket at 5.00 per adult
I would price a Champions League ticket at below 15.00 per adult

Its the same game, and its the same game for them to cut their cloth as it is for supporters. The fact that credit cards are offered, albeit interest free is a sad reflection of the game.

Holgate End

smiley thing, yes will be back next season but no away games, no cup trips even to semis, cutting cloth. Which reminds me, its dinner/lunch and i want the toilet.

yes I would,

standards Posted on 24/04/2008 12:10
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

ps

what about one of the shuffleboards i brought back instead

Critical_Bill Posted on 24/04/2008 12:11
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

He's not right but he is condascending.

Maybe people want more affordable prices

skiprat Posted on 24/04/2008 12:22
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Thanks God Boro fans don't live in London and would have to pay Spurs/Chelsea prices. There'd be 100 people in the ground.

MN4 is bang on with that statement.

standards Posted on 24/04/2008 12:35
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

absolute rubbish

captain5 Posted on 24/04/2008 12:37
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

They do want more affordable prices but they still want the signings, Bill.

Sounds a bit like something a few posts up.

Lee, Conference football is a lot more than 5 a ticket. I know it's not right but if they get a couple of thousand in the ground, how do they run a club on 5 a ticket.

sasboro1 Posted on 24/04/2008 12:44
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

just think, if the club had appointed a proper manager then we might finish a few places higher which would bring in an extra 1.5m which then could be offset by reducing season ticket prices by about 100. if only the club put as much thought into appointing a manager as structuring the season ticket prices for 21-65 year olds

Gains Posted on 24/04/2008 12:45
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

1m towards reducing ST prices is a very small investment for a huge PR gain. Almost everyone would appreciate the sentiment and those who are on the fence about getting a ST would see the club are sympathetic to the fans who can no longer justify shelling out 400+ year after year.

I still firmly believe by doing that, they would more than make their money back in extra sales.

karembeu_ca Posted on 24/04/2008 12:48
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

sigh.

and then you would complain they werent spending the money on better players to push on. its always something.

Gains Posted on 24/04/2008 12:50
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Who would?

Critical_Bill Posted on 24/04/2008 12:58
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Like Lamby said last year, they're more bothered about pay on the day fans than season ticket-holders, and that the season ticket revenue only makes up a small proportion of the clubs income.

karembeu, Southgate has been let loose with the cheque-book for two seasons now and we haven't 'pushed-on'.

karembeu_ca Posted on 24/04/2008 12:58
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

gains, a 'token' gesture would be seen as just that, a token, and the complaints on here would be even worse. "how dare they", "its an insult" etc etc.

HolgateEnd Posted on 24/04/2008 13:02
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Does that mean your rabbits ate the other tent aswell... [;)] No bother, I'll let you keep the shuffleboards (and whats left of the tents) if you'll use 'em? We took them with the idea of leaving them there anyway (as you well know!).

Kare, you're right, we probably would complain that they werent spending the money on better players...if no ex-ST holders came back.

But if the club were to drop prices, to (for example) 300 and they did get a good few thousand season ticket holders back, I'm sure they'd more than make the money they'll get from the inevitable drop in adult season tickets that they're going to end up with. Which means the fans would be happy at paying less, and the club would be financially the same or better off. You are basing your arguement on a glass half empty thing where they'll drop the prices and people still wont go. I think people would respond (as per Standard's e-mail, perfect example of a life long fan who would come back if prices dropped) and would come back, glass half full if you like, so we would be no worse off ST money wise, but the ground would be more full and the attendees would spend more in the ground/club shop/bars/programme sellers etc etc etc.

So if they tried dropping the prices and it did bring people back, they'd be no worse off and we'd still be able to make the buys that we all want.

Critical_Bill, i think you've fallen foul of the perception of what the the 12th man is for. They are a group set up to try and improve the atmosphere at the ground, and that's it. They are not the fans link to the club to discuss things like ticket prices, what lager to sell, what kit makers we should have etc etc. Their one and only aim is to try and improve the atmosphere at the stadium.

karembeu_ca Posted on 24/04/2008 13:06
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

holgate, easy to say we should take the chance when its not your millions you are gambling with. there is no evidence to suggest that lower prices would be recouped by higher sales - none.

Critical_Bill Posted on 24/04/2008 13:06
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Holgate, well looking down the nose statements are hardly going to break down the exclusivity perception of them that people have.

sasboro1 Posted on 24/04/2008 13:08
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

if dropping the prices wont work then why have they bothered with reducing the u21 prices? If we sell more u21 tickets then it proves dropping prices does work.

Critical_Bill Posted on 24/04/2008 13:09
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

sas, some people are completely taken in by the propoganda.

HolgateEnd Posted on 24/04/2008 13:12
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Kare - hence why I've said previously that they should have contacted every single ex season ticket holder and asked for their thoughts. I know three people who would come back if it was cheaper. My Uncle, my next door neighbour and Standards. Now if I know 3 people, how many more are there who would come back?

Bill, its for a different thread really, but no-one is stopping you involving yourself in the 12th man. All you have to do is attend the meetings, dates and times are posted on here.

Gains Posted on 24/04/2008 13:12
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

No I disagree. A 30 or 40 reduction across the board would have been welcomed with open arms by almost everyone.

captain5 Posted on 24/04/2008 13:16
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

The club asked the lapsed season ticket holders at the focus group they held for them.

Not a single one regretted giving their season ticket up and would be coming back.

As for these price incentives on the standard adult price, are we talking about for existing and new season ticket holders or just existing ones??

Gains Posted on 24/04/2008 13:20
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Everyone. And why not? I thought they were wanting to attract more ST holders, not just keep the ones they've got happy and alienate non ST holders further. The fans who've been there years get first bash at limited tickets.

karembeu_ca Posted on 24/04/2008 13:20
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

sas, becasue as has been said, that is not to retain customers, its to get new ones.

a 300 quid ticket for adults might get some new customers, but would lose a lot of revenue as well. the kids tickets are to get a new generation in (bs marketing blurb, but true nonetheless).

its just in line with what other business do, I dont see the problem with that. maybe for once i'm the pessimistic one on here, as I genuinely dont believe that there would be 'open arms' acceptance of a token amount, and dont see the business model to support it.

makes a change me being the grumpy old git and sas being the positive one [:D]

heaton_mersey_boro Posted on 24/04/2008 13:22
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

captain - as a matter of intrest, how many fans were there in this focus group?

sasboro1 Posted on 24/04/2008 13:23
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

"sas, becasue as has been said, that is not to retain customers, its to get new ones."

so what about people who are 21-65 who have season tickets. my dad is 60 and wont go until he reaches 65 when it is cheaper. or who wil take the kids to matches if they arnt old enough to go on their own.

"a 300 quid ticket for adults might get some new customers, but would lose a lot of revenue as well"

as much revenue as what losing to bolton might be? or having players on reserves who never play and on big wages

captain5 Posted on 24/04/2008 13:24
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

They had two HMB. There were about a dozen people in each, mixture of ages, stands they sit in.




heaton_mersey_boro Posted on 24/04/2008 13:27
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

A dozen?

Seems a bit small. Marketing-wise, would this give a fair evaluation?


Critical_Bill Posted on 24/04/2008 13:31
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Were they just one year lapsed, or were there a mixture of ones who've drifted away over the years?
It tells a story that the club have lost almost 10,000 season ticket holders in the space of 10 years.

skiprat Posted on 24/04/2008 13:31
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

"my dad is 60 and wont go until he reaches 65 when it is cheaper."

Which is his choice.

Should they bend over backwards to accomodate everyone?

captain5 Posted on 24/04/2008 13:34
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

You wouldn't gain very much statistically from having many more HMB. It won't be the only marketing research they carried out, just adding a bit of qualitative content to the quantitative information that they gathered.

As far as I'm aware it's the most recent group of lapsed.

The other group was season ticket holders and regular away match goers, including a rep from the MDSA.

If you went back too far then the 'problems' that caused people to stop going may not be active, so would skew the results.

sasboro1 Posted on 24/04/2008 13:34
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

hey, skiprat. jsut saying that there are people outhere who will go if the price was cheaper. whereas you say if it was cheaper then it would not make any difference. like i said lets see if the u21 prices will increase sales. if the club had your attitude there will be no one in the ground. as for my dad, he has been going for 40 years up until recently. i think the club are choosing to ignore those sort of people. so they (and you) cant really complain about the crowds if they arnt bothered about them

BenJammin Posted on 24/04/2008 13:39
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Sas, do you think they should move to a means tested way of pricing?

skiprat Posted on 24/04/2008 13:40
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

I don't really see the problem people are having when they paid for a season ticket 2/3 seasons ago and are now baulking at exactly the same price this upcoming season.

If you were happy to pay it then, what's changed? Cost of living hasn't increased that much.

The point is Sas, as has already been mentioned 100 times on this thread, the club are looking at bringing in NEW fans, hence the cheaper tickets for younger people.

Bolton and Blackburn's recent drops don't really tally in with the fact that existing holders will stay if the price is dropped, but more tied into league performance.

Critical_Bill Posted on 24/04/2008 13:41
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Aren't the disabled tickets cheap as chips anyway?

heaton_mersey_boro Posted on 24/04/2008 13:43
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Decent football, good 100% performances on the pitch etc will get the crowds back.

Its the only thing that will.

sasboro1 Posted on 24/04/2008 13:48
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

*skiprat in head in the sand shocker*

who needs to retain customers ! Do you work for MFC? You are always agreeing with anythign they do.

how do you know bolton and blackburns crowds would not have dropped further if prices had not been reduced?

it is contradiction here, on one hand people say crowds wont increase if prices are reduced then on the other hand applaude the club for reducing u21 prices because it will being in more fans! make you mind up!

you have to retain your season ticket holders. for example what happens when someone reaches the age of full price? will they stay? if your older (over 21) season ticket holders keep packing in then your crowds are never going to go back up. and there coul dbe new season ticket holders who will go who are over 21.

and also who will take the kids who are too young to go on their own?

heaton_mersey_boro, i agree part of the blame must go on southgate. he is doing his best to drive people away.

captain5 Posted on 24/04/2008 13:48
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

Bill, the groups weren't just solely fixated on ticket prices; other issues were discussed as well.

Critical_Bill Posted on 24/04/2008 13:50
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

"Cost of living hasn't increased that much"

how much lodge you pay your parents isn't a good barometer.

skiprat Posted on 24/04/2008 13:51
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

"You are always agreeing with anythign they do"

Not at all, there's plenty of things I disagree with at Boro at the moment, but some of the cheapest season ticket prices in the league are no issue for me and I actually think for once they've done a superb deal that tries to cater for as many as they could and is forward thinking.

karembeu_ca Posted on 24/04/2008 13:53
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

sas, no argument that money is 'wasted' elsewhere, always has been, always will be.

the argument here doesnt seem to be the price of a ST, which I think is high in absolute terms, but whether the drop in price would see an overall increase in revenue - which I doubt.

I know that there is mention of it as a PR value exercise, but unless that PR results in increased revenue, it doesnt make business sense.

captain5 Posted on 24/04/2008 14:05
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

I know this is not good mathematics but since when has that mattered??...........

The club will have a 'budget' that they can spend on trying to get people into the ground and money into the club. They have a choice.

If you took 20,000 season ticket holders and offered them a 50 discount then they would have a marketing budget of 1 million to fund that.

They would look at that and see that there are a few things they need to work out; how many would still stop going, do they offer it to new ST holders as well knowing that it P***es off existing ST holders.

What the club have actually done is give reductions of 200 and 150 to smallers group of people but what they have done is made it available to everyone. They're able to do that because most of the older fans appreciate that we need to get more younger fans into the ground. If they have 5,000 under 21 year old ST holders then they are spending about 750K in terms of their marketing budget.

The club will also appreciate that they will get extra (full price) adult ticket buyers to accompany the youngsters which will in a lot of cases be additional money that helps them claw back their money.

They are spending money to get more money AND more fans into the ground(I don't think anyone disagrees with that) and I don't think they could have done that to such a degree with an across the board reduction in prices.

They could've tried a combination of adult reductions and slightly less discounted youngster tickets, but the club probably feels that the people who the discounts work for least are the general adult ticket base.

Stabilo_Boss Posted on 24/04/2008 14:09
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

"I agree part of the blame must go on southgate. he is doing his best to drive people away."

What a ridiculous comment

karembeu_ca Posted on 24/04/2008 14:10
got a email from mfc today with regards to st

I agree cap.

I dont think we are on opposing sides with people on this, its not like the Arca/Rocky/Southgate/ra ra/boo boy type stuff. I think in general people want to believe that Boro is a community club, their club, and would like to see a gesture - the problem is that the club have to fund a prem season, and any reduction is not conducive to that.

sas, do you think that Gibson is happy to be paying Mendi for an extra two years, or happy that we are not further up the league to offset that 1-2M? he also knows that as well as a few M extra for those places we should be up the league, it would mean bigger gates too.

a higher league place and more wins is the only guarantee to better attendances.