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TopQual Posted on 06/03/2012 22:32
14,000 odd

Why?

Tyrone_Shoelaces Posted on 06/03/2012 22:36
14,000 odd

Why what?

monkeyman Posted on 06/03/2012 22:36
14,000 odd

Because they wanted to watch some footy?

degsyspesh Posted on 06/03/2012 22:36
14,000 odd

why not?

not taking the pi55, but that's how many fans wanted to go.

kenna Posted on 06/03/2012 22:37
14,000 odd

Because we a terrible to watch at home.Still put myself through it though cause i love [fb]

leroy Posted on 06/03/2012 22:38
14,000 odd

Wasnt that many there by the look of it 12k tops

TopQual Posted on 06/03/2012 22:38
14,000 odd

Just find it a shame that only 14,000 odd of our fans want to go watch a team fighting for promotion, after a good win at Portsmouth. Okay money's tight at the moment but why the dip in attendance for tonight?

TopQual Posted on 06/03/2012 22:39
14,000 odd

If only more people were like that Kenna, no doubt we'll get about 5/6 thousand more for Leeds because it's a "derby" [rle]

degsyspesh Posted on 06/03/2012 22:44
14,000 odd

The problem is that when Robbo was here, we got an extra 15,000 fans turning up through the excitement and sheer novelty of what was happening at the club. They started to tail off a bit with Smac's dour football and f'cked off completely once we got relegated and we were still selling players and it was clear that we weren't going to challenging for promotion.

Those 15,000 have gone for good - they won't be back (other than for big games etc). They've found other things to do with their time and money.

We're now back to the sort of crowds that we were getting before Robbo which is probably the natural level for us in this league.

bryan_munich Posted on 06/03/2012 22:49
14,000 odd

Leeds game?

TopQual Posted on 06/03/2012 22:57
14,000 odd

Hmm, that's probably true degsy. It just annoys me that we got such a low attendance today even though we were 5th in the table and now 4th, I think we got bigger attendances than that at the end of last season when we were bottom half/mid table, how does that work out?

And what about the Leeds game?

bryan_munich Posted on 06/03/2012 23:08
14,000 odd

And what about the Leeds game?
_____
Walk up floaters will choose the Leeds game over Barnsley on a wet cold Tuesday night. There'll be more kids there for a start.

Barnsy Posted on 07/03/2012 00:33
14,000 odd

Very disappointed with the attendance tonight!!

In fact, I find it difficult to understand why so few turn up when the team are doing so well.

kenna Posted on 07/03/2012 00:54
14,000 odd

people want to be entertained for the price of a ticket.We just have no flair players anymore and its just boring to watch.I nearly fell asleep tonight watching that tosh

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 07/03/2012 01:09
14,000 odd

£27 to watch us play Barnsley on a Tuesday night, just a few short days before we welcome Leeds to Teesside. We were never, ever going to get more than 15,000 tonight.

£27 is an absolute nonsense of a price.

Red_Matter Posted on 07/03/2012 01:34
14,000 odd

Give it a rest, soft lad.

otto42 Posted on 07/03/2012 01:42
14,000 odd

Agree van, walk up price is over the top, need some game by game incentives?!


bblf Posted on 07/03/2012 01:50
14,000 odd

Would have cost me £104 for my family tonight. 4 adults (2 of them in education ).I know there's cheaper student tickets but we go as a family and want to sit together. That's why we didnt go. Around £10 to £12 each and we would have but £27 each not a chance.
Ive gone from going for 45 yrs and missing 6 games in that time to now going maybe 4 times a season. Family all had season tickets for many years but rarely want to go now. All have found other things to do and dont miss it. Me I sit and watch the Sky Jeff Stelling prog and when they go to our match my stomach churns as much as it ever did when I was there but cant afford the prices anymore. It took less than half season to get used to not going.
Not having a go at those who go or the club who charge what they have to charge. Just saying how it is for some.We stopped going purely because of the cost.

gizasqueezemister Posted on 07/03/2012 03:16
14,000 odd

i think bblf is spot on with that and typical of the majority. Sad but true. MFC (and other clubs) should take note. Last time i was back in the area I paid the 27 quid and will next time but it is simply way too much [DFS]

offside-again Posted on 07/03/2012 07:00
14,000 odd

Well for me it's a joke that we can't get around 19k avg when going for promotion. I know the argument about the historical avg and it has some merit, but as a club we are a bit bigger now than we were. I mean we have played in Europe twice, even got to a final and also won our first trophy so we must have gained some fans who would still go even in this league. I'm not expecting or demanding 25k but c'mon we should have an avg of about 19k seen as how we have been up the top end all season !

Ok yesterday was a hard sell so it was always gonna be about 15k, the point is we should have a higher avg and in the past when going for promotion we probs used to avg more than what we are now and that of course was before we went up a notch as a club from Europe and the league cup win.

No matter how you slice it, the attendances have been on the whole, a slight disappointment.

gizasqueezemister Posted on 07/03/2012 07:11
14,000 odd

Disapointing yes but for me its more dispointing that we have 'fans' who want to go but are priced out. Simple economics [sad]

offside-again Posted on 07/03/2012 07:16
14,000 odd

Yeah true, but a) How cheap would it have to be to get em going and b) Just how many extra would we get ? I honestky think that you'd have to almost half the price to get a significant increase and that is never going to happen.

Besides, relative to other clubs in this division we are one of the cheapest, West Ham for instance charge 50 quid ! I know it's Laaandaaan prices, but 50 sodding quid ?

To any who are currently priced out, how cheap would it need to be to get you to attend ? [?]

Piggy Posted on 07/03/2012 07:27
14,000 odd

I dont agree that because we played in Europe we are a bigger club ans should have bigger crowds than previously.

I think the 'raising of the bar' has probably resulted in smaller crowds as people tend to regard our current position as a relative failure. I know lots of younger fans who know nothing pre-Robbo who just wont entertain the prospect of Championship football. Even a Premiership relegation battle would be seen as something to be endured at best.

FrozenHorse Posted on 07/03/2012 07:28
14,000 odd

Basically becasue there is a far more attractive fixture on SUnday: those who pick and choose will have plumped for Leeds over Barnsley.

Already we've sold more tickets for Leeds than we did for Barnsley, and that's before you include away fans.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 07/03/2012 07:41
14,000 odd

'Those 15,000 have gone for good - they won't be back (other than for big games etc). They've found other things to do with their time and money.'

Not necessarily, Boro's crowds have always fluctuated in line with the quality on show. I actually think we're getting very good gates. We have a team similar to that of maybe Lennie Lawrence, yet the gates are above what they were back then.

Put a decent show on and the crowd will turn out, as long as it's priced right. Pay your very average team too high a wage and you're always going to struggle.

bryan_munich Posted on 07/03/2012 07:57
14,000 odd

I think the 'raising of the bar' has probably resulted in smaller crowds as people tend to regard our current position as a relative failure.
___________
Spot on. Recent history is important in building fan momentum - look at Southampton for example.

rumrunner Posted on 07/03/2012 07:58
14,000 odd

Pay peanuts watch monkeys !!
having supported Boro since 1967 i have always said we have one of the worst set of fans in football
and its no use jumping to the defense of them because those that read / post on here are obviously Boro fans who care about the team
post premiership / Eindhoven the riverside reveloution fans had their expectations raised to unrealistic level for a town our size and thats what they compare us with now on thier list of excuses of not going its easy to roll out the i cant afford it line but 5 years ago our average was 10,000 more and we have had no increase in season ticket prices in that 5 years
people need to compare what others are charging in this division who have bigger attendences , look at Pompey they had more at their ground in bottom place on Saturday than us challenging for promotion last night
at the weekend i will go and buy 3 tickets for West Ham away and they are £32 each so our prices aint bad
you can always find the money to do the things you want to do.
if we do make the play off final at Wembley they will find the money for that no problrm

mfctraveller Posted on 07/03/2012 08:17
14,000 odd

The financial climate doesn't help, I for one am earning less than half I did 5 years ago, so had to cut out many of the away games.

However the biggest problem is the entertainment on show, playing good stuff away from home will not bring the crowd back for home games if you are giving the crowd lacklustre boring games at home. That is what we have done consistently at home this season. Whenever the crowd increases we throw in a poor performance, beat Leeds with a high energy enjoyable performance and some of those fans will come back.

boronutter Posted on 07/03/2012 08:20
14,000 odd

i think people are getting to exoect a poor performance at home [:I]due to our record this season at home,hence people arent bothered

keelo Posted on 07/03/2012 08:32
14,000 odd

I think those we could have got extra on Sunday will still be in the scratcher at 12.15............silly time!!!

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 07/03/2012 08:57
14,000 odd

'if we do make the play off final at Wembley they will find the money for that no problrm'

And so it should be. Why throw money at something you're not enjoying, save it up for the big occassion.

sasboro1 Posted on 07/03/2012 09:01
14,000 odd

there just isnt the interest and its now back to the pre riverside crowds.

although leeds will see a decent crowd

Muttley Posted on 07/03/2012 09:06
14,000 odd

There were times last night when I wished I was anywhere else but there. It was cold the football was dull and it seemed the likelihood of a goal was only slightly greater than the chances of Richard Dawkins finding God on a hill in Israel.

Not sure who the stupids were...

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 07/03/2012 09:11
14,000 odd

'there just isnt the interest'

Same interest as ever. Choices ae being made.

Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants Posted on 07/03/2012 09:18
14,000 odd

I booked last nights and Sundays game tickets online yesterday and was again appalled by the price.

Having said that I've been to 11 home games and spend almost £300. Might work out cheaper to get a season ticket than pay on the gate. Even though I miss so many.

rob_fmttm Posted on 07/03/2012 09:27
14,000 odd

Jonny you should have at least bought a Boro Pride Card you would have made a big saving not only ticket prices but £2 a game on booking costs.

boro_tyke Posted on 07/03/2012 09:58
14,000 odd

A Boro Pride card does help of course Rob. Though I would argue its impact is neglible within the bigger scheme of things and in terms of the club addressing unrealistic walk-up prices.

Sheffield Wednesday pulled in nearly 18,000 at Hillsborough last night for what you would expect is one of the less attractive fixtures for them in League 1. They are in a similar position to us at this present time too so a decent comparison to make.

The club also need to address the early-bird renewal strategy. Iíve yet to speak to a fan who is happy at having to renew earlier and earlier each season. The clubs whole pricing structure is convoluted and needs a radical re-think.

On the pitch, the football itself, while productive, is still largely sterile (at home) and lacks real drive and energy. Fans just donít generally feel entertained for what they are being charged.

skiprat Posted on 07/03/2012 10:03
14,000 odd

Sheff Wed is £20-£26 for League 1 games.


SOUTH £26
NORTH £24
WEST £22
KOP £20
KOP £20

Do you think £20 on the day tickets would make much difference to last nights gate?

boro_tyke Posted on 07/03/2012 10:07
14,000 odd

The comparison with Wednesday was more to do with thier circumastnces ON the pitch rather than off it. Their gate last night only serves to highlight how poor ours was.

£20 for an adult ticket West Upper would, yes.

Bandy Posted on 07/03/2012 10:08
14,000 odd

special thanks to the taxi load of barnsley fans aswell

Arthur_Horsfield66 Posted on 07/03/2012 10:08
14,000 odd

I went last night. If I wasn't a season ticket holder I wouldn't have bothered.

The home peformances are absolute dross. With home 2 games in a week people aren't going to pay 20 quid to go and see that lot play Barnsley.

I was thinking at 1-0, has there ever been a game when they've been booed off after winning? Most people around me spent the game chatting amongst themselves and the kids where playing games on their phones.

Oh, and Mogga came out with the long journey back from an away game excuse again. B0ll0locks! They'll have been back well before midnight, plenty of time to go clubbing.


sasboro1 Posted on 07/03/2012 10:09
14,000 odd

£20 wouldnt make a difference

i mean you can get in for boro games for £22 a game

and why do people keep quoting the more epxensice tickets like £27? do people askt eh ticket office can they have the most expensive tickets availables so they can walk away shaking their heads complainign about prices?

thing is we could make it £10 a game and the crowds would need to double and that wont happen. revenue would drop then we wouldnt be able to sign hammill or Jutkiewicz and the same people would complain that they wont go until the club show some ambition and spend money.

its been discussed 1000s of times on here. i trust the likes of gibson know how best to maximise gate money rather than cyber warrior experts on a messageboard who has only ever run a club on championship manager on their pc

gizasqueezemister Posted on 07/03/2012 10:10
14,000 odd

20 in their Kop sounds better than 27 in our Holgate. Yes it does/would make a difference.

boro_tyke Posted on 07/03/2012 10:14
14,000 odd

£20 for your most expensive ticket would certainly make a difference. It doesnít take a cyber-warrior running Championship Manager to work that out. It would seem that MR Gibson is somewhat out of touch with his public if he Ė and indeed you sasboro Ė think for a second that gate money to clubs is their primary income stream any more.

Get a grip.

Edit: ...Mr Gibson is somewhat out of touch with his public if he Ė and indeed you sasboro Ė think for a second that gate money to clubs is their primary income stream any more and a direct correlation to ambition.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 07/03/2012 10:14
14,000 odd

Why do people keep quoting £27, sas? Because it's £27 to sit in the north stand. It's outrageous for the club to be charging people that kind of money and then to be moaning that attendances are low.

sasboro1 Posted on 07/03/2012 10:17
14,000 odd

it starts at £22-£24 depending if people can be arsed with a pride card. if only people would get their facts right before hand.

sheff wed are a league below us incase some have forgotten so will be slightly cheaper. shall we compare our priced to those in the top flight then?

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 07/03/2012 10:21
14,000 odd

I think my facts are right, sas. I mean, I paid £27 to sit in the north last night. So that, I think, I mean I may be wrong, of course, and you may be right again, but I think that means it costs £27 to get into the north stand. Which means, I think, that my facts are right.

Muttley Posted on 07/03/2012 10:22
14,000 odd

It doesn't matter to the club how many bums they get on seats it's how many pound notes they get in the coffers that matters. If it made economic sense to charge £20 they would. It doesn't, they don't.

sasboro1 Posted on 07/03/2012 10:24
14,000 odd

had they sold out of the £22-£24 ones? are they not the north stand? they are always advertising those on the website.

hoolio73 Posted on 07/03/2012 10:24
14,000 odd

My mate in the ground reckons it was closer to 10k rather then 14k.

Says they count the non attending ST holders or something.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 07/03/2012 10:28
14,000 odd

Ah, so I could have got in for £25 if I'd spent £10 on a Boro Pride Card before I'd gone down to the match?

sasboro1 Posted on 07/03/2012 10:30
14,000 odd

how many games do you go to. i think its £22 with a card and £24 without one in the north east corner. they rarely sell out. still some left for leeds game.

Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants Posted on 07/03/2012 10:32
14,000 odd

I have a pride card and that is what I have spent. I like to move around the ground so games I'm in the west upper, sometimes the North etc

boro_tyke Posted on 07/03/2012 10:34
14,000 odd

"...If it made economic sense to charge £20 they would."



Thatís subjective at best. Would they? I think not.

£24 seems all of a sudden economically sensible in selling replica shirts in the club shop in February when only four months earlier they are £40.

It seems the club can make changes. They just donít want to. But donít even get me started on replica strips as yet ANOTHER one looms large come July...

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 07/03/2012 10:37
14,000 odd

Don't live in Boro, sas. So I'm never sure which games I can make until fairly late in the day. I get to at least half of the games. Around thirteen or so. Maybe a couple more. So a Boro Pride Card would save me around £26, I think, maybe £30. And then the £10 cost. So £16-£20. Over the course of a season.

sasboro1 Posted on 07/03/2012 10:38
14,000 odd

you dont have to buy a shirt to watch boro play. we have known for years how selling the shirts work and more than likely there will be a new strip out for watford. same as most clubs.

rivals_oldschool Posted on 07/03/2012 10:42
14,000 odd

Lets just charge half a million a ticket then. We'd only need to play in front of what, about 5 millionaires then? I'm sure we can find some round here.

The clubs still targeting the family man to cough up for tickets for himself and the kids. Sorry but at those prices there's just not enough any-more.

I don't see why any young lad round Teesside on minimum wage should cough up £27 a match.

Second off the stadiums location has never helped. The lack of amenities round there is a joke. It kills any atmosphere when your stadiums in the middle of no where. Should never have built the stadium where it is.

Back when we were a top flight club there weren't many stadiums I visited where I had to traipse across barren muddy fields to get there. It's amateur stuff really.

boro_tyke Posted on 07/03/2012 10:50
14,000 odd

"...you dont have to buy a shirt to watch boro play. we have known for years how selling the shirts work and more than likely there will be a new strip out for watford. same as most clubs"

If you want to be picky about it then of course you donít need a shirt to support your team. Though you and I both know that my last point raises the issue that the club CAN make changes to their pricing structure. They do it in other areas as the replica shirt point proves.

The fact that yes, we do know how the replica shirt thing works, doesnít justify it or make it right. Thatís a ridiculous argument.

Muttley Posted on 07/03/2012 10:51
14,000 odd

Tyke said ""...If it made economic sense to charge £20 they would."

Thatís subjective at best. Would they? I think not.

£24 seems all of a sudden economically sensible in selling replica shirts in the club shop in February when only four months earlier they are £40."

The club seeks to maximise revenue. The reason the shirts are only £24 is because they are due to be replaced so they get shot of excess stock. Last year they reduced them to £10 it didn't stop them selling the new ones at full price. As for the silly point of getting five millionaires, yes that is the logical extension of it. It's simple Keynesian Economics.

It's a good job none of you are trying to run the club.

rivals_oldschool Posted on 07/03/2012 11:03
14,000 odd

To be fair I think most people think more long term with the pricing structure, than the very next game.

Where does Gibsons decision to fill in the corners fit in with all this then? Is that where those millionaires were supposed to be seated?

Smoggy68 Posted on 07/03/2012 11:05
14,000 odd

Low crowds are down to a lot of things but I think 7 or 8 years of oppressive over the top stewarding and imposing of health and safety regulations (which other clubs manage to turn a blind eye to) dont help.

Going to the Riverside used to be passionate and enjoyable. Fans were encouraged to get behind the team, we had flag days, stewards wernt aggressive to anyone wanting to stand and chant. Fans didnt used to be harrassed like master criminals if they happened to be holding a pint while stood on a yellow chevron ffs.

Etc etc, in short mfc took fans for granted during the good times and are now reaping the rewards of treating them like crap, ie theyve woken up to the fact that its no longer a fun way to spend a couple of hours for the price of a small fortune.

sasboro1 Posted on 07/03/2012 11:15
14,000 odd

"Don't live in Boro, sas. So I'm never sure which games I can make until fairly late in the day. I get to at least half of the games. Around thirteen or so. Maybe a couple more. So a Boro Pride Card would save me around £26, I think, maybe £30. And then the £10 cost. So £16-£20. Over the course of a season. "

get yourself a pride card next season. £10 and it will work out about 80p extra on your match tickets. then you save £2 per game and they also post you a ticket without have to pay a booking fee on home tickets.

Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants Posted on 07/03/2012 11:57
14,000 odd

If they make tickets £20 with a pride card Im sure more would go. Extra £10 from extra pride cards plus extra sales of beer food etc should cover the shortfall.

TopQual Posted on 07/03/2012 12:00
14,000 odd

I don't see how the stewarding would affect me going to a match or not, to be fair I've never seen the stewards do anything that bad, but that maybe because I sit in the west and not the SEC.

MoggasDog Posted on 07/03/2012 12:00
14,000 odd

i have a family. a job. like a lot of lads on here I live 3 hrs (£50 diesel) away. more than once i have nearly come to blows with a rara who dared to ask why i might want to leave a match early without the p1ssflap having any idea what committments i have other than MFC.

i go when i can.

when i was a virgin and living with my mam i never missed a match. strange, that......


bryan_munich Posted on 07/03/2012 12:05
14,000 odd

Second off the stadiums location has never helped. The lack of amenities round there is a joke.
____________
The location and amenities are the same when we get big crowds.

leroy Posted on 07/03/2012 12:08
14,000 odd

i dont think price would make a difference to those midweek games.

as a ST holder i admit they are a bit of a chew.

Selling ST from one point of the ground would help create a better atmos. like the u21 game.

would save the club some dosh aswell as they wouldnt have to open all of the ground

its really sad to see though, your supposed to support your team come what may, fair play if people genuinly cant afford it but i would guess there is loads on here who can afford but choose not too out of 'principle'

Muttley Posted on 07/03/2012 12:13
14,000 odd

"extra sales of beer food etc should cover the shortfall."

Ah that old one!

If you sell a ticket at £20 as opposed to £27 how much beer and food do you need to sell to make up the shortfall?

Profit on such items is not what you might think, even at the outlandish prices MFC charge it is unreasonable to expect every ticket purchaser to make additional purchases whereby the profit would make up the shortfall (Remember the difference between the £20 ticket and a £27 ticket costs is nil so that £7 goes straight into the club kitties. Burgers cost money, you have to pay duty on beer etc. I reckon you would have to spend about £25 in the catering kiosks to make up that £7 shortfall? Might be a bit less but not much.

boro_tyke Posted on 07/03/2012 12:15
14,000 odd

Muttley: "It's a good job none of you are trying to run the club."

Christ yes! I mean what if we found ourselves with a stadium more than twice the size we currently need it, a disillusioned public, 3 managers in the past three years, countless redundancies and a team which finds itself struggling to gain promotion from a poor second division.

I just wouldnít know what to do with the £80 million thatís come through the club in parachute payments and transfer fees in since relegation in 2009...!!!

Muttley Posted on 07/03/2012 12:18
14,000 odd

No, obviously your time machine would help you immeasurably. I bow to your superior knowledge. I reckon Bausor was lucky you weren't in the frame for his job.

otley_boro Posted on 07/03/2012 12:39
14,000 odd

There is some nonsense on this thread. We do have the worst supporters and the best in the country. As does every other club, those we go to every game and those who turn up for the big games. So to tarnish a teamís support as crap is a bit nonsensical really. The biggest problem we have is that our stadium is just too big for our fan base. Letís compare us to Newcastle who have a fan base 3 times the size of ours. Our 35K stadium would be the equivalent of Newcastle having a 100K stadium and our crowd of 14K is equivalent to them pulling in a crowd of 42K.

The_Mrs Posted on 07/03/2012 12:40
14,000 odd

What disappoints me most, is that we have so many members of a Middlesbrough Fans Forum, defending the fact that they don't go to games because of the lack of entertainment. I've been going to games for about 22 years and haven't missed many home games in all that time. I've seen some awesome games and I've seen games that've made me want to throw my Season Ticket at the players/management on more times than enough. In my opinion, that is what it means to be a Boro fan, you support your team no matter what. If all of those fans who stay away because of lack of entertainment, came back to the Riverside, maybe it would generate a bigger and better atmosphere and in turn uplift the crowd and the players. I appreciate that that may seem a bit rose-tinted and I understand there are many factors as to why people have stopped going to the games, but for me, if you're a Boro fan........you're a Boro fan!!

UTB!

Texas_Pete Posted on 07/03/2012 13:02
14,000 odd

A lot of usual old p1ss and wind on this thread. Fact is back in the Juninho / Robson days prices were very similar and we had a full 20,000 more in the stadium. Ok times are hard at the moment and I feel for those who actually can't afford to go rather than use it as an excuse. Personally i'd rather have a sh!t phone no sky subscription cut out a few nights out etc etc to find my £370 for a season ticket. Its hard to stump up £27 per game which is why there is an incentive for a having a season ticket. Stump up once per year and you get 10 free games.

Bottom line is if we were still glamorous more people would come. We had a season ticket waiting list at one time. Nearly 20,000 more people!!! nobody is telling me cost is the reason for ALL of these. Some yes, but MOST have just lost interest and will come back if we ever hit the big time again.

bear66 Posted on 07/03/2012 13:05
14,000 odd

Barnley were always good for a decent away following; 300 last night is part of the problem why attendances aren't 16k+

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 07/03/2012 13:08
14,000 odd

'Fact is back in the Juninho / Robson days prices were very similar and we had a full 20,000 more in the stadium'

Of course. More people want to watch the decent stuff, it's why Hartlepool get 5,000 and Arsenal get 60,000....we're somewhere in between because we're in the middle....in fact we're a lot closer to Hartlepol's standard than Arsenal's.

Our crowds are good for the standard of football I've seen played there this season.

bear66 Posted on 07/03/2012 13:11
14,000 odd

So you think Strachan's style of football was better than Mogga?

Very little correlation between quality of football and crowds; even good results when we were on a roll did little to boost numbers. Championship football is of little interest to part-timers. I struggle to give STs away if one of our lot can't make it, even to ex-premiership-st-holders

Texas_Pete Posted on 07/03/2012 13:20
14,000 odd

Because it's not all about the standard of football it's about supporting your team for a boro fan. If it was about the quality of football Stoke would have 3 people turn up.

I can't understand the low attendance's myself. We are pushing for promotion with the old hero Mowbray in charge and there is seemingly little interest. To back up bear's post we also struggle to give away a ticket if we ever have one spare.

skiprat Posted on 07/03/2012 13:58
14,000 odd

Just to mention the absolute dross about food and drink again...

If people are so cost aware that they won't come to a game if it's £27, but they will if it's £20 WHY ON EARTH WOULD THEY THEN SPEND THAT £7 THEY'VE SAVED ON FOOD AND DRINK?!

ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

rivals_oldschool Posted on 07/03/2012 14:09
14,000 odd

Thing is though we're not a glamorous team, never have been. We had a brief stint in the 90's with the rest of football when yuppies attended for a while. They won't be coming back.

That's it.

Why do people compare these times as normal? It was abnormal. Back when football turned itself into a family day out with the wife and kids. How much of those crowds were made up that lot, all reliant on one bloke paying for them to go?

It doesn't add up either that football is cheap enough only when you have to start sacrificing other things to pay for it like Sky or beer.

That's not how it works. You either have the disposable income or you don't. Your average crowd is made up of young men, with many of them priced out. It's as simple as that.

Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants Posted on 07/03/2012 14:16
14,000 odd

Because if it's £27 for ticket and a few social pints at £3 a pint you're looking at £36 instead of maybe £29.


Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 07/03/2012 14:20
14,000 odd

Rivals, Boro's gates have fluctuated over time. Generally when atractive football is played more people turn out. The 60's under Stan Anderson brought better gates in general than they do now, yet the gates of Lennie Lawrence's team were a lot lower, and for me the quality now isn't far away from what Lawrence's side produced.

The gates we managed when Juninho was here still didn't match the late 40's early 50's crowds of the Mannion era.

The best team I've seen in a Boro shirt had a crowd gate averaging 28,000, they were 5 points away from being the best team in the country. They weren't particularly attractive but had some real gems that were worth turning out to see.

The current team hasn't one 'real gem' in its ranks. Our corwds are better tha they should be historically, and economically.

FrozenHorse Posted on 07/03/2012 14:21
14,000 odd

I think we've got to be more concerned with generating revenue than filling seats because that money will then be ploughed back into strengthening the team.

The best way to fill the stadium is to have a good team, and you get a good team by paying for it.

sasboro1 Posted on 07/03/2012 14:28
14,000 odd

gibson is probably tryign to run the club on its own feet now. probably fed up with the pampered fans and cant afford to reduce the revenue just to please about 1000 part time fans

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 07/03/2012 14:32
14,000 odd

That's you, that is.

rivals_oldschool Posted on 07/03/2012 14:37
14,000 odd

I disagree. If you have a generation of lads out there growing up being priced out under some guise of maximising income then I don't see them suddenly picking up a habit out of nowhere to start attending just because we happen to have an OK team.

If your talking my dads and Granddads era of attendance, first off there was no disparity between prices. It was gate price and that was it. The season ticket at present helps those with the disposable income at the beginning of the season, some people just don't have that kind of money floating around at that time of year to spend.

Second off good paying jobs for life were aplenty back in those era's, those days are also gone in Boro now.

A lot of people therefore like me work outside of Boro now. Bottom line is I can't justify making every-game, which is why gate prices need to adjust for me and others. It would give people that extra incentive to travel more to home games.

Season tickets for me are just becoming massively outdated, the pricing structure needs to become more flexible to match working patterns.

FrozenHorse Posted on 07/03/2012 14:46
14,000 odd

"I don't see them suddenly picking up a habit out of nowhere to start attending just because we happen to have an OK team."

It happens.

In 1986 we were getting gates of 3k; by 1988-89 we were averaging 20k.

In 1994 we were getting gates of 6k; in 1995 we had 27k season ticket holders.

Sucess on the pitch was the key.

I'm cynical that price cuts will significantly improve gates for 2 reasons:

1. On the occasions when I've been unable to attend home games, I've not been able to give my ST away.

2. When we slashed prices for the Shrewsbury match, only 12k turned up. I believe about half of them were ST holders anyway.

So why should I beleive there are thousands of passionate fans out there who are eager to come to the Riverside if they could only afford it?

Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants Posted on 07/03/2012 14:48
14,000 odd

Shrewsbury, a team to entice the fans.

sasboro1 Posted on 07/03/2012 14:49
14,000 odd

got to go back a few years to the seasons in the prem where cheap tickets made a huge difference. i am sure gibson would do it if it meant another 10000 turning up. he probably thinks that if people dont want to go everyweek when it is £16 a game then they never will

residentofnorthleeds Posted on 07/03/2012 14:49
14,000 odd

27 or or even 20 pounds to watch a football match is too much. Just because its the going rate everywhere doesnt make it right

skiprat Posted on 07/03/2012 14:52
14,000 odd

"Because if it's £27 for ticket and a few social pints at £3 a pint you're looking at £36 instead of maybe £29. "

If that £7 makes so much difference you shouldn't even be at a football match.

FrozenHorse Posted on 07/03/2012 14:54
14,000 odd

"Shrewsbury, a team to entice the fans"

Nevertheless, if there were this reservoir of passion for Boro and football pent up behind the dam of high prices, why didn't more take advantage of the price cut?

If 20k had turned out, then those who call for price cuts would have had strong evidence to support their arguement, but they didn't.

And is Barsnley on a Tuesday night really THAT much more attractive than Shrewsbury?

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 07/03/2012 14:57
14,000 odd

27 quid for a seat is ridiculous for the Teesside area, and let's face it sas, that's what people who aren't Boro die hards pay.

Once again, you fsil to look at it from the point of view of those who for whom football has many alternatives. They'll turn up if its worth watching.

By he way, Gibbo dropped the prices for much of Ayresome Park in his first season, you didn't need a season ticket to be treat fairly back then.


Muttley Posted on 07/03/2012 15:02
14,000 odd

Thing is though, as most ST holders will tell you, there is no huge un-tapped demand from people who find the prices just a little too much. If for any reason I can't go to a match I would struggle to GIVE my ticket away.

Oh and why is the price of "few social pints" added in to the cost of going to the match? Would those people not drink if they weren't attending a game?

"Pint Fred?"

"No thanks Bob, I'm not at the match now!"

sasboro1 Posted on 07/03/2012 15:07
14,000 odd

"27 quid for a seat is ridiculous for the Teesside area, and let's face it sas, that's what people who aren't Boro die hards pay."

you never listen to anyone else do you. there isnt the demand for tickets..as mentioned peopel cantt seem to give away free tickets. tthere are not 10000 boro fans waiting for prices to go down to £10-£15 per game. the club has to maximise revenue as a priority, not as some community project/charity run by unpaid volunteers. maybe try to see it from gibsons point of view. if the prices were reduced to £15 per game there would not be 10000 increase on gates regularly because thsoe fans woudl already have a season ticekt in the north stand where it is about £16 per game over a season.

why would another 10000 suddenly go when they can already go for abotu the same price?

think about it

shrewsbury was an opportunity for the fans to show price is a massive factor. maybe if there had been a big crowd the club could have been persuaded that lowering prices will be good for the club

FrozenHorse Posted on 07/03/2012 15:08
14,000 odd

"Thing is though, as most ST holders will tell you, there is no huge un-tapped demand from people who find the prices just a little too much. If for any reason I can't go to a match I would struggle to GIVE my ticket away."

Agreed Muttley, that's my experience too.

If I were SG or Bauser (sp?) I wouldn't gamble the club's income on the assumption that crowds will significantly increase if prices are lowered as I see little firm evidence to support it. Actually, the evidence as I see it leads me to the opposite conclusion.

rivals_oldschool Posted on 07/03/2012 15:20
14,000 odd

Like I said though, it takes time to build a fan-base. I think people get sick of being lectured by people who were weaned on cheap gate prices.

Season tickets at present don't help a significant base of people. Thats why I was never a fan of them.

It's mainly an incentive for the local middle class to attend. They're just another example of why being poor is expensive.

Many people just don't have the money sitting around in a month to spend on a ST. It's that simple.

There's also those who love miles away. I haven't bothered buying a season ticket for a few years now because I know I can't make enough home games for it to be worth it. If gate prices were cheaper it would be an incentive to get there more.

Then people go on one off examples like the mighty shrewsbury [rle], to prove this point.

The bottom line is in a stadium of empty seats there's no valid reason of why people need to buy one any-more which shows me the clubs not really bothered about galvanising any local support and just rely on those who 'can' afford it.

boro8686 Posted on 07/03/2012 15:22
14,000 odd

you pick out the shrewsbury game FH as if it proves your point. but what about the sunderland game? the u21 game? the psv game? all cheaper tickets all plus 20k crowds.

Muttley Posted on 07/03/2012 15:26
14,000 odd

Sunderland game reduced prices FA cup replay against a local rival who brought quite a few themselves also televised so there was TV revenue as well to ameliorate the losses. U21 game fans from ll over NE as well as Boro fans in attendance at very low prices. PSV game, wasn't there a famous ex-player involved...

boro8686 Posted on 07/03/2012 15:29
14,000 odd

and what muttley? so if it was £27 to get into those games wed have had the same sized crowd? bollox!

edit: nice use of the word ameliorate though even though i have no idea what it means[^]

FrozenHorse Posted on 07/03/2012 15:31
14,000 odd

"what about the sunderland game? the u21 game? the psv game? all cheaper tickets all plus 20k crowds."

What about them? All unique, special occasions in their own right, and therefore less relevant to run of the mill matches which we are discussing.

Barnsley at home in midweek as the case in question. Is it a one-off local derby cup tie against top flight opposition? Or is it the ultimate run of the mill, bread-and-butter fixture with all the glamour of a cuo match v Shrewsbury?

We'd have had a big crowd v Sunderland even if prices hadn't been cut (20k plus certainly). These matches got big crowds becasue they were attractive fixtures, not becasue they were cheap.

boro8686 Posted on 07/03/2012 15:32
14,000 odd

Look, people on this thread have already said its too expensive for them to go, are you saying they are lying?

FrozenHorse Posted on 07/03/2012 15:37
14,000 odd

There is certainly a huge difference between what people say and what people do, as every market researcher knows. I form my opinion based on what people do, not what they say.

Please explain to me why:
1. People don't want to go even when I, and others, offer free tickets.
2. When tickets are cheap, people haven't taken the chance of going.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 07/03/2012 15:40
14,000 odd

'you never listen to anyone else do you'

I do listen, and I hear the way the ticket prices charged by the club when I walk up to the ticket office aren't the prices you talk about on here.

When we played Hull almost half the crowd paid more than 50% extra than the other half for the match ticket. In the office in James Cook Square there was a bloke buying a ticket for himself and his son, he didn't have a clue where to sit because he wasn't particularly interested, he was taking his son who was keen as mustard. His jaw almost hit the deck when he found out how much it was costing him. There's a kid not going to the match again until he's a lot older.

It's now a game for the comparatively wealthy.

rivals_oldschool Posted on 07/03/2012 15:41
14,000 odd

1. You have no friends
2. If your out of the habit of going through cost, the like-hood of seeing Shrewsbury isn't much on an incentive to change this. Maybe it's peoples way of saying 'stick it up your ar*e'.

boro8686 Posted on 07/03/2012 15:43
14,000 odd

I dont know who your offering your ticket too, but last night my brother couldnt go so i had a free ticket and it went to the first person i asked who said he wouldnt normally go cos its too expensive. Like ive already stated weve had 3 plus 20k crowds with cheaper tickets so i dont think that points valid. Im not knocking the club by the way i think i think theyre between a rock and a hard place here because if they want to compete at this level they need to pay the wages. Average players are getting paid way over the odds, agents are creaming too much out of the game and people on low wages have been priced out, its a fact im afraid.

sasboro1 Posted on 07/03/2012 15:43
14,000 odd

C_T_C, you are talking about fans going to 3-4 big games a season. gibson realises those sort of fans arent interested in the ordinary games like Barnsley. do you see where gibson is comng from?

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 07/03/2012 15:48
14,000 odd

Then why bother ripping them off?

FrozenHorse Posted on 07/03/2012 15:51
14,000 odd

"Im not knocking the club by the way i think i think theyre between a rock and a hard place here because if they want to compete at this level they need to pay the wages"

This is where I agree with you.

The best way to improve attendances is to continue to improve the team and to get back into the Premiership. To do this we need money.

Yes, of course it would make some difference to the crowds if we said £10 for adults and £5 for kids, but I doubt we'd have broken 20k last night if we did. I'm not really arguing that it makes NO difference, I'm arguing that it won't make a massive difference to an unattractice fixture like last nights.

And at those prices, the stadium would need to be full to equal last night's receipts.

Anyway, 22-23k will be there on Sunday.[;)]

sasboro1 Posted on 07/03/2012 15:51
14,000 odd

ripping who off? those fans only want to go to the few big games a season. they have no interest in going to the rest of the games. otherwise they would be having a season ticket that is £16 per game. thats how gibson is thinking. he doesnt want to lose revenue over a few few fans who go to 4 games a season. not sure how amny more times i will have to say it.

as said above people cant give spare tickets away. same last night for a few of us

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 07/03/2012 15:54
14,000 odd

Well if people can't give them away then feel free to do an 'FAO viv_andersons_nana' before the next home game you can't make as I'm pretty sure I could find a good use for two tickets.

boro8686 Posted on 07/03/2012 15:57
14,000 odd

This is true Sundays will be a big crowd, and i think that contributed in a big way to last nights attendance. plus if Barnsley had brought as many as we took to their place it would have been 17k
(there was way more Boro fans at Oakwell than the 1800 they declared btw[;)])

rivals_oldschool Posted on 07/03/2012 15:58
14,000 odd

You mean shock horror people might only go to games offering most value for gate money prices.

How does that in anyway signify they wouldn't attend with lower prices? Your just pulling facts from thin air.

FrozenHorse Posted on 07/03/2012 16:00
14,000 odd

The other thing to remember is that our average league attendance this season is UP by around 1300, despite the economic hardship.

I expect this to rise further in the remaining games as there are some attractive fixtures such as Leeds, Cardiff and Southampton still to come, and it looks like it's going to be an exciting end to the season with lots to play for.

Given our modest expectations at the start of the season, surely this is better than the club could have expected?

sasboro1 Posted on 07/03/2012 16:00
14,000 odd

"You mean shock horror people might only go to games offering most value for money."

er no, you mean the high profile games? people dont want to go to the ordinary barnsley type games. cost doesnt really matter they just dont want to spend their time at the game and lose the evening/saturday afternoon. there is a difference

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 07/03/2012 16:02
14,000 odd

In 1969 my first season ticket cost a fiver, it was a juniot ticket in the north stand upper, the current west stand equivalent, a full season ticket was a tenner. We had a higher average gate in a bigger ground, but far fewer season ticket holders, we were in the division where we are now and about to miss out on promotion, as we most probably will this season.

The average weekly wage was 30 quid, it's now somewhere between 400 and 500 quid. In real terms football is a lot more expensive.


Revol_Tees Posted on 07/03/2012 16:10
14,000 odd

£24-27 tickets for second tier football in the middle of a recession in a town with the highest unemployment rate in the country. Untangle and eradicate those factors and then you might see a weekly average of above 20,000 at the Boro again. Until then, no chance.

rivals_oldschool Posted on 07/03/2012 16:11
14,000 odd

I don't understand the difficulty in wrapping your head around this.

If people are finding the cash for high profile games it doesn't necessarily mean they won't under any circumstances attend lesser profile games.

Where are you getting this from?

It suggests to me they're people who find these games value for the money they're charging. Why can't you accept this point?

They're most likely people who again would like to attend more games but fail to see why they should be penalised because they don't want to be strong armed into buying a season ticket for a half empty stadium.


bear66 Posted on 07/03/2012 16:13
14,000 odd

C_tC

That's an interesting comparison . . . . based on the average wage today a junior ticket should be £83 . . . so at £95 things are quite similar

FrozenHorse Posted on 07/03/2012 16:14
14,000 odd

"If people are finding the cash for high profile games it doesn't necessarily mean they won't under any circumstances attend lesser profile games."

Would you support a sliding scale of prices depending on the opposition? SOme clubs use such a system.

Current prices for matches against Leeds, Hull and Saints; £18 for Barnsley in midweek perhaps?

sasboro1 Posted on 07/03/2012 16:15
14,000 odd

rivals are you confused?

we will always get bigger crowds for the indemand games. that has always been the case even when we have CAT A games against the likes of manutd.

the problem is that the non regulars only want to go to these games and will happily pay top wack for them. the issue is that they dont want to go to the barnsley type games even when they price is dirt cheap or people have sparetickets..because they just dont want to go to the game..they prefer to sit at home rather than watch boro V barnsley..thats the bottom line. i dont think price is the main issue.

sasboro1 Posted on 07/03/2012 16:17
14,000 odd

"The average weekly wage was 30 quid, it's now somewhere between 400 and 500 quid. In real terms football is a lot more expensive."

if we are looking back years and years ago. i will give you riochs promotion winning seasons where crowds reached average of nearly 15,000 in 2nd tier, even though football was cheap at about £3.50 to get in. we are now back at that level. same crowds. wasnt down to ticket prices back then

rivals_oldschool Posted on 07/03/2012 16:27
14,000 odd

Right, so your completely basing the whole thing on one off games or the fact that a nameless bloke on the net doesn't have enough friends to give away a ticket.

I'm fairly sure more people would attend more games but simply don't want to commit to a season ticket due to their circumstances.

I'm one of them. I can't commit to a season ticket yet I have to be penalised for it via the price.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 07/03/2012 16:33
14,000 odd

It's not just about prices. The crowd has changed at the match. The lower working class lads are struggling to get there, the kids of the upper working classes that joined during the boom are still here. Had they not come to the game in the mid 90's we'd be struggling to attract 10,000.

The football is poor today, for me not a patch on that played during the Rioch era, and football hadn't become fashionable. Those capable of forking out for a season ticket do so if they're keen to go every week, the others will become more and more disinterested, as is showing in our gates.

We're having our best season for a while, the gates aren't really going up are they? Has the club cheesed that many off that they can't be bothered any more? They aren't doing something right. The people of Teesside are the same as they've ever been, the same as people across the country but with less disposable income. Time that Gibbo, who reacted to that when he took over the reins, reacted to it again.

You can take the Mickey when you're putting a decent show on, it's a bit harder when you aren't.


skiprat Posted on 07/03/2012 16:35
14,000 odd

I don't think anyone on here is or can justify £27 for a home match ticket.

I certainly wouldn't pay it but am lucky enough that I have a season ticket so it's not a choice I need to make.

The main objection is that there are thousands of people waiting, just waiting for the price to drop to roughly £20 that would then all flock as quickly as possible to the stadium, bollox.

EpiphanyProudfoot Posted on 07/03/2012 16:36
14,000 odd

I don't even bother to read the threads about attendances any more.

Sorry but that is just how it is I am afraid.

skiprat Posted on 07/03/2012 16:36
14,000 odd

"The football is poor today"

I don't believe it's any poorer than what was offered at Ayresome CtC. I think that's just the historical rose tinted specs coming into play.

sasboro1 Posted on 07/03/2012 16:38
14,000 odd

think crowds are up 10% on last season

in the end the robsob,juninho and smac years made our club fashionable to watch. it was a positive blip for 10 years or so. our era.. it couldnt be sustained. we have fallen as quick as we rose to those levels. people lost interest due to that good era. expectations are high since we moved to the riverside. peopel have moved on or stopped going for various reason not just money. for example lots of people who lives miles away would have season tickets and make the games. many of them probably only bother with home games when visiting back home.

but really we are back to our normal pre riverside attendances. just like it was in teh golden years of bruce rioch and football was cheap

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 07/03/2012 16:42
14,000 odd

There aren't any normal attendances, have a look at our attendance records.

sasboro1 Posted on 07/03/2012 16:45
14,000 odd

aye,riochs average attendance in 2nd tier was less than this season, i also believe todds and lawrences were too.

before the riverside turned up i bet its a few years since our averages attendances in 2nd tier broke the 20000 barrier

Davey_C Posted on 07/03/2012 16:59
14,000 odd

The statistics is anyone is sad enough to want to read through them

49/50 D1 (9) 743541/35406 Hi 27/12 Newcastle 53802 Lo 8/4 Bolton 21764
50/51 D1 (6) 758579/36122 Hi 14/10 Sunderland 52764 Lo 7/4 Bolton 24423
51/52 D1 (19) 604279/28775 Hi 29/8 Man Utd 44434 Lo 22/12 Preston 16899
52/53 D1 (13) 549453/26164 Hi 27/8 Cardiff 42159 Lo 3/3 Aston V 13176
53/54 D1 (21) 567397/27018 Hi 24/10 Blackpool 39416 Lo 24/2 WBA 17144
54/55 D2 (12) 443292/21109 Hi 27/12 Leeds 45271 Lo 27/4 Bury 7944
55/56 D2 (14) 375191/17866 Hi 3/9 Fulham 26275 Lo 18/4 Lincoln 8298
56/57 D2 (5) 443657/21126 Hi 17/11 West Ham 31513 Lo 22/12 Barnsley 11147
57/58 D2 (7) 530845/25278 Hi 12/4 Blackburn 31771 Lo 29/3 Notts C 14879
58/59 D2 (13) 522401/24876 Hi 3/9 Sheff Utd 42866 Lo 11/3 Grimsby 12019
59/60 D2 (5) 523218/24915 Hi 10/10 Sunderland 47297 Lo 30/4 Leyton O 13044
60/61 D2 (5) 323090/15385 Hi 24/9 Sunderland 27458 Lo 25/3 Stoke 8736
61/62 D2 (12) 332011/15810 Hi 31/3 Sunderland 35666 Lo 23/12 Leyton O 9955
62/63 D2 (4) 335090/15956 Hi 15/12 Sunderland 43509 Lo 21/5 Norwich 7626
63/64 D2 (10) 386040/18382 Hi 26/10 Sunderland 43905 Lo 28/3 Scunthorpe 8839
64/65 D2 (17) 329525/15691 Hi 26/12 Newcastle 38194 Lo 24/4 Charlton 8627
65/66 D2 (21) 282452/13450 Hi 27/12 Leyton O 21107 Lo 26/10 Portsmouth 9582
66/67 D3 (2) 404474/17585 Hi 16/5 Oxford 39683 Lo 15/10 Swindon 8126
67/68 D2 (6) 397027/18906 HI 30/12 Bolton 29217 Lo 30/3 Norwich 10181
68/69 D2 (4) 442332/21063 HI 4/3 Aston V 29824 Lo 12/4 Bury 10417?
69/70 D2 (3) 416966/19855 Hi 26/12 Carlisle 29703 Lo 4/4 Cardiff 13859?
70/71 D2 (6) 389224/18534 Hi 9/1 Leicester 30682 Lo 27/4 Birmingham 12802
71/72 D2 (9) 376794/17942 Hi 22/1 Sunderland 34446 Lo 29/4 29/4 Hull 9539
72/73 D2 (4) 218774/10417 Hi 12/8 Sunderland 24145 Lo 7/4 Brighton 6816
73/74 D2 (1) 467545/22264 Hi 26/12 Sunderland 37030 Lo 15/9 Aston V 14742
74/75 D1 (7) 600696/28604 Hi 22/2 Leeds 39500 Lo 24/8 Luton 21478
75/76 D1 (13) 487687/23223 Hi 15/11 Leeds 32959 Lo 3/4 Ipswich 14764
76/77 D1 (9) 436604/20790 Hi 27/12 Aston V 31451 Lo 14/5 Bristol C 14849
77/78 D1 (14) 417349/19873 Hi Liverpool 30805 Lo West Ham 13247
78/79 D1 (12) 387649/18459 Hi 11/5 Liverpool 32214 Lo 16/9 QPR 12822
79/80 D1 (9) 393522/18739 Hi 12/1 Man Utd 30587 Lo 21/12 Bolton 11789
80/81 D1 (14) 345076/16432 Hi 7/2 Sunderland 35065 Lo 11/4 Brighton 11076
81/82 D1 (22) 281668/13412 Hi 14/11 Sunderland 21019 Lo 9/3 WBA 9403
82/83 D2 (15) 210380/10018 Hi 5/2 Newcastle 25184 Lo 16/10 Bolton 5521
83/84 D2 (17) 177930/8472 Hi 6/9 Newcastle 19807 Lo 5/5 Charlton 4720
84/85 D2 (19) 107827/5134 Hi 2/3 Leeds 8817 Lo 9/2 Notts C 3364
85/86 D2 (21) 131630/6268 Hi 28/12 Sunderland 19701 Lo 30/11 Shrewsbury 4061
86/87 D3 (2) 234010/10174 Hi 6/5 Wigan 18523 Lo 23/8 Port V 3690 (@ Hpool)
87/88 D2 (3) 319801/14536 Hi 7/5 Leicester 27645 Lo 5/9 Swindon 9344
88/89 D1 (18) 381860/20097 Hi 11/3 Liverpool 25197 Lo 17/12 Charlton 16065
89/90 D2 (21) 340483/14803 Hi 3/3 West Ham 23617 Lo 16/12 Leicester 11428
90/91 D2 (7) 391474/17020 Hi 1/1 Sheff Wed 22869 Lo 6/4 Bristol C 13846
91/92 D2 (2) 338257/14706 Hi 28/9 Sunderland 19424 Lo 2/11 Southend 9664
92/93 PL (21) 351202/16723 Hi 3/10 Man Utd 24172 Lo 22/3 Oldham 12290
93/94 D1 (9) 239200/10400 Hi 2/4 Notts F 17056 Lo 6/2 Millwall 6286
94/95 D1 (1) 428754/18641 Hi 30/4 Luton 23903 Lo 14/9 WBA 14878
95/96 PL (12) 556390/29283 Hi 10/2 Newcastle 30011 Lo 16/9 Coventry 27882
96/97 PL (18) 567541/29870 Hi 19/10 Tottenham 30215 Lo 18/1 Sheff Wed 29485
97/98 D1 (2) 689937/29997 Hi 3/5 Oxford 30228 Lo 9/8 Charlton 29414
98/99 PL (9) 653373/34388 Hi 20/2 Tottenham 34687 Lo 14/3 Sthampton 33367
99/00 PL (-) 634474/33393 Hi 26/2 Leeds 34800 Lo 27/11 Wimbledon 34800
00/01 PL (14) 553696/29141 Hi 26/12 Liverpool 34696 Lo 23/9 Aston Villa 27556
01/02 PL (12) 540719/28458 Hi 15/12 Man Utd 34358 Lo 3/2 Charlton 24189
02/03 PL (-) 589480/31025 Hi 9/11 Liverpool 34747 Lo 11/1 Southampton 27443
03/04 PL (11) 577556/30397 Hi 28/12 Man Utd 34738 Lo 13/12 Charlton 26721
04/05 PL (-) 578086/30425 Hi 28/12 Norwich 34836 Lo 27/2 Charlton 29603
05/06 PL (14) 511575/26925 Hi 13/8 Liverpool 31908 Lo 26/3 Bolton 25971
06/07 PL (12) 526866/27729 Hi 23/12 Charlton 32013 Lo 9/12 Wigan 23638
07/08 PL (13) 507450/26707 Hi 6/4 Man Utd 33952 Lo 1/9 Birmingham 22920
08/09 PL (19) 540144/28428 Hi 2/5 Man Utd 33767 Lo 21/2 Wigan 24020
09/10 CH (11) 458766/19946 Hi 24/4 Coventry 27721 Lo 23/1 Swansea 16847
10/11 CH (12) 374182/16268 Hi 16/10 Leeds 23550 Lo 8/3 Derby 13712

otley_boro Posted on 07/03/2012 17:32
14,000 odd

If there are thousands waiting for the price to drop to £20 then where were they for the FA Game against Shewsbury, when it was £10 and we got 12K.

FrozenHorse Posted on 07/03/2012 17:37
14,000 odd

One more point about the Sunderland match: for those of us who are ST holders, it cost MORE than an ordinary match. Still paid though.[:D]

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 07/03/2012 17:48
14,000 odd

I wish people would stop bringing the Shrewsbury game into this sort of debate, to be honest. If the club charged a tenner for league games then the crowd would go up. The Shrewsbury game was a third-round FA Cup game, a fourth-tier outfit coming to town. 12,000 is a pretty decent turn out for a game like that, in my opinion.

Maybe the club could experiment a bit. Maybe charge £10 for a league game or two and see what happens.

FrozenHorse Posted on 07/03/2012 17:53
14,000 odd

"The Shrewsbury game was a third-round FA Cup game, a fourth-tier outfit coming to town"

In terms of sheer glamour and appeal, Barnsley on a Tuseday is far closer to the Shrewsbury match than the Sunderland match.

Shrewsbury, therefore, is a better yardstick against which to judge the effects of lower prices than Sunderland.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 07/03/2012 18:01
14,000 odd

Haven't we put the prices down for early-round cup games in previous seasons only for there to be little interest in them? Which means the Shrewsbury game was fairly successful in terms of how many turned up. Haven't we had 7/8,000 crowds for cup games at the Riverside in the past?

Like I said earlier, I think that if the club charged a tenner for league games then the crowd would be higher. I think that if the club wanted to have a better atmosphere inside the stadium, be surrounded by fewer empty seats, then they would be looking at ways to lower the prices. Especially at this stage of what could be a very successful season.

sasboro1 Posted on 07/03/2012 18:02
14,000 odd

"If the club charged a tenner for league games then the crowd would go up. "

yes but by how much though. we would need 30,000 to break even at a guess

degsyspesh Posted on 07/03/2012 18:09
14,000 odd

"It's not just about prices. The crowd has changed at the match. The lower working class lads are struggling to get there, the kids of the upper working classes that joined during the boom are still here. Had they not come to the game in the mid 90's we'd be struggling to attract 10,000.

The football is poor today, for me not a patch on that played during the Rioch era, and football hadn't become fashionable. Those capable of forking out for a season ticket do so if they're keen to go every week, the others will become more and more disinterested, as is showing in our gates.

We're having our best season for a while, the gates aren't really going up are they? Has the club cheesed that many off that they can't be bothered any more? They aren't doing something right. The people of Teesside are the same as they've ever been, the same as people across the country but with less disposable income. Time that Gibbo, who reacted to that when he took over the reins, reacted to it again.

You can take the Mickey when you're putting a decent show on, it's a bit harder when you aren't."

........'kinell, I've just had one of those rare but wonderful moments where I completely agree with CtC.

If the price had been £20/ticket we might have had an extra thousand in at most. The point is that the current team just don't capture the imagination of the none "hard-core" fans.

You could charge £10 a ticket where we are now or £30 a ticket if we were playing decent football in the premiership and you would still get the bigger gates in the premiership.

MawTheMerrier Posted on 07/03/2012 18:09
14,000 odd

Shrewsbury, a team to entice the fans.
--------
nail on the head there. Football fans round here go to watch the opposition, not Boro. If man u were drawn in the cup we would have a full house at £30/ticket.

me? I love Boro and go to watch them regarDless of who we play. thats why I have a season ticket. and I cant be harssed to have to buy tickets all the time.

GET A SEAON TICKET YA TIGHT CHUNTS!!!

FrozenHorse Posted on 07/03/2012 18:10
14,000 odd

"I think that if the club charged a tenner for league games then the crowd would be higher. I think that if the club wanted to have a better atmosphere inside the stadium, be surrounded by fewer empty seats"

All that is true of course, but I don't see it as a way forward.

If we charged that amount we wouldn't fill the stadium which we'd need to do to account for the gate receipts we'd be losing out on. Neither would refreshment sales cover the shortfall.

That loss of income leads to a cut in playing staff and a degeneration in performance. Then people start saying "this isn't value for money, I'm not coming anymore...". Do you cut prices again to keep the stadium full?

Your plan makes sense IF your ultimate goal is to have a full stadium. But that isn't our ultimate goal: it's surely to have as good a team as possible?

A winning team will do more to fill the stadium than a full stadium will do to make the team win. Therefore we need to keep income high, even if it means we have to endure a half-full stadium in the short term.

sasboro1 Posted on 07/03/2012 18:16
14,000 odd

..and were we really that exciting to watch before we moved to teh riverside. the odd season or two but msot of it was jsut kick and rush stuff. i've seen old clips of rioch era and its seemed kick and rush and less skill. a lot just based on getting stuck in

as FrozenHorse says, reduce prices,reduce income, less quality signings, better players get sold, we slip down the league,attendances drop, less money,club cant increase prices, we get relegated to league one with crowds below 10k

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 07/03/2012 18:21
14,000 odd

I was saying that to try and make the point that prices DO have an impact on attendances. For many, it's too expensive. Lower the prices and get more through the turnstiles. I'm not suggesting we SHOULD charge a tenner for league games, I'm saying that if we charged less then more people would turn up to watch us. Middlesbrough is a footballing town and people will turn up if they feel it's worth it. £24-£27 for a game against Barnsley, a few days before Leeds, just isn't worth it in the eyes of many people. It's hard to blame them really.

But, to go back to my earlier point, it doesn't have to be £10 across the board. It could be £20, or maybe something like £20-£25 for a Dad with his kid. £30 for a Dad and two kids.

Reducing the prices would send a message out to the people of the town that club understands the various economic factors many people face at this moment in time. A message that the club NEEDS them and their money. The lack of movement from those at the top of the club with regards to getting more people in seems bizarre. To me, anyway.

Just my opinion, to be honest. But looking out at the swathes of empty red seats every game is pretty depressing and I'd love to think the club's management felt the same and were prepared to do something about it.

MawTheMerrier Posted on 07/03/2012 18:37
14,000 odd

Kids for a quid [^]

would put 5,000 on the gate + revenue in the concourses.

No brainer for me.

Muttley Posted on 07/03/2012 18:40
14,000 odd

Just catching up on this thread. Interesting debate (Piffers facile idiocy excepted)

V_A_N "I was saying that to try and make the point that prices DO have an impact on attendances"

I don't think anyone is arguing that they don't. What we are saying is that it does not make ENOUGH difference to make economic sense. The club must focus on maximising income. To use a simple example, reducing tickets to half the price WOULD NOT bring in twice as many punters. Therefore money would be lost. Extra revenue from the catering outlets would not even scratch the shortfall.

I agree that we need to get fans back and I'd like to see imaginative solutions to encourage fans to come back. Tokens in the Gazette? Tie-ins with a supermarket? Buy a short term rest of season ticket at ST rates? But simply putting the price down brings in very few extra despite what people say about fans wanting to come back (they are probably the same fans who wouldn't come till Southgate/Strachan/Lamb/Tea Lady and all have been ritually slaughtered on the steps of the Director's Box)

FrozenHorse Posted on 07/03/2012 18:42
14,000 odd

Sure Viv, no one is saying we wouldn't want to see more people at the Riverside.

However, given a choice between a winning team and a full stadium, I know which one I'd choose. Furthermore, I think a winning team will do more to fill the stadium than anything else.

I don't believe the club are stupid: they don't just pick prices out of the air. I suspect they've got the balance between crowd numbers and ticket prices about right in order to produce maximum revenue and that is what is best for the team.

Lots of people on here have pulled numbers out of the air and used them to argue that there IS a better balance, but their figures are always pure specualtion.

The bottom line seems to me to be that fans will turn out in numbers for attractive fixtures at current prices. If it's not an attractive fixture (Shrewsbury, Barnsley), cheap tickets can only boost attendances a little.

RudiDassler Posted on 07/03/2012 18:43
14,000 odd

Kids for a quid sounds a great idea in theory, but only for a couple of games a season.

If you do it for every game, where is the incentive for the parent to pay for a season ticket for the kid?

Kids for a fiver with every adult ticket purchased makes good sense to me

bill_door Posted on 07/03/2012 18:47
14,000 odd

We don't need to half the price, double the crowd etc.

We have, at a guess of course, about 12k season ticket holders - which means that on average about 5k people pay on the day for a match.

Knock £7 off the ticket price and you're looking at losing £35k.

But if it brings in an extra 2k people paying £20 each, you're making £40k and are happy.

Personally I think we'd pull in over 2k extra fans if we dropped the prices to £20 for the Bristol City match, and more than that for Cardiff.

degsyspesh Posted on 07/03/2012 18:48
14,000 odd

MtW - "Kids for a quid

would put 5,000 on the gate + revenue in the concourses."

Absolutely + you're attracting in the next generation of fans that will hopefully get hooked and stick with the club. As I said above, the club has lost the 15,000 "Juninho fans" - they are gone for good. We need to do something different to attract in another big group of supporters.

Considering how much effort the club puts into developing young players you would have hoped that the penny would have dropped that they need to be doing the same with young fans......

RudiDassler Posted on 07/03/2012 18:50
14,000 odd

There can't be any harm in experimenting in a price drop for a match.

I would also like to see something for students, as other clubs offer these schemes and there is literally no way that it couldn't benefit the club. Just need a valid Student ID

FrozenHorse Posted on 07/03/2012 18:56
14,000 odd

"There can't be any harm in experimenting in a price drop for a match."

Well the club could lose revenue...

At the moment we average around 6k pay per match fans. So every pound by which you drop ticket prices represents £6000 of lost income.

Davey_C Posted on 07/03/2012 19:15
14,000 odd

Theres loads the club could do but when they finally do attempt some kind of ticket deal the games are usually meaningless or at the wrong time.

Any bog standard televised game should see prices reduced for a kickoff to get floating fans
to even think about going. Half term midweek games ie forest game why not do kids special. Kids for a quid has worked inthe past as has 2 for £20. If we get promoted EVERY game will be televised in pubs and clubs on teesside not just the occasional game this wont bring bums back on seats.

Ive had a season tic since we moved to riverside but asking for my dosh by 31st march has seriously peeved me off.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 07/03/2012 19:53
14,000 odd

I like what bill says, to be honest. £20. Nice and simple. Season-ticket holders are still £4 'up' if you set the price at £20.