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degsyspesh Posted on 18/02/2012 09:01
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

I know this sounds like a Daily Mail rant, but it isn't. It's the Guardian.

40 children (aged 14-17), seek asylum in the UK and who initially claim that they are over 18 are housed in adult detention centres while their aged is assessed - generally for up to a month.

They are then found to be under 18 (or admit that they are) and subsequently claim that their detention was unlawful and so we pay out £1M in damages plus a further £1M in costs.

I'm not for a second having a go at genuine asylum seekers, but if you are escaping a country that is so bad that you need to seek asylum elsewhere then I don't think it's unreasonable to find yourself locked up for a month while the authorities figure out what to do with you - regardless of whether you are under 18 and end up in an adult centre. It certainly isn't worth £25k each in damages for a month.


Link: Guardian

r00fie Posted on 18/02/2012 09:03
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

Build them a house. After all.....you`ve built thousands[cr][^]

degsyspesh Posted on 18/02/2012 09:16
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

Roofie - sadly there is no money available in the country to build houses anymore......

....and that's the ironic thing, that £2M would have built accomodation to properly house 25-30 families.


ccole Posted on 18/02/2012 09:34
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

Asylum seekers don't cost this country anything. That is a well known fact and often confirmed by 75% of this board.

That report was clearly started by the BNP or EDL and is published to stir up racial hatred.

Any more of that and you will be banned to COB with the other knuckle draggers

Fascist !

degsyspesh Posted on 18/02/2012 09:36
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

[:D]

Buddy Posted on 18/02/2012 09:42
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

Why are we starting from the premise of "deciding what to do with them"?

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 18/02/2012 09:43
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

How does this mean the country is "f*cked" like? Or am I missing something?

robbso Posted on 18/02/2012 10:47
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

"A total of £1,020,000 was paid to the children in compensation for their wrongful detention in adult centres and £1,085,000 was paid in costs"

Mmm, i see the legal Eagles did the work for the childrens benefit then.

I wonder if they were fed Gruel and made to work for 16 hours a day.

tseightliot Posted on 18/02/2012 11:00
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

As much blame must go to the parasite compensation companies and solicitors, who will no doubt be waiting outside the gates on a little stand asking- have you been detained unlawfully in the last 5 years? It is a pi55 take though.

ron_manager Posted on 18/02/2012 11:02
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

I would argue the system is very fuucked, from the Lawyers to government policy

Gene_Vincent Posted on 18/02/2012 11:43
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

"Why are we starting from the premise of "deciding what to do with them"? "

Because when someone arrives in a country & claims asylum, enquiries have to be made as to who they are, where they are from, is it a legitimate claim etc.

But then you know that don't you?


Buddy Posted on 18/02/2012 11:46
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

I know that that's what DOES happen, I'm questioning WHY? Why do we start from the premise of stipulating who can live where?

Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants Posted on 18/02/2012 11:57
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

So they arrive claiming to be over 18, then they are held to decide what age they really are, once found to be under 18 they claim damages?

If thats true i'd put them on somewhere like the Shetland islands to show them how good uk life is.

Liamo Posted on 18/02/2012 11:58
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

'40 children (aged 14-17), seek asylum in the UK and who initially claim that they are over 18'

That's not quite accurate. According to the article, only some of them said they were over 18, and they were also told they would be released if they were found to be under 18.

By contrast, some of them told the Home Office officials that they were under 18 and even produced letters to that effect from Social Services who had assessed them and declared them children, despite which the Home Office detained them as adults anyway.

The most shocking case was where four siblings aged 7, 11, 12 and 13 were incarcerated in detention centres for 13 months Ė the longest time children have ever been locked up in the UK.

The OP almost makes it sound as if this is some kind of scandal whereby asylum seekers used a deliberate subterfuge to get millions of pounds from the government whereas the real scandal is how a number of children were callously mistreated and had to resort to legal action to remedy the situation they had been put into through no fault of their own.

As the article points out, 'despite the widespread concerns about what was going on, the Home Office did nothing to change the situation until they were forced to do so by children bringing litigation.'

Angelmatty Posted on 18/02/2012 12:30
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

we should just turn everyone away
there is to many people in the country already

Gene_Vincent Posted on 18/02/2012 12:46
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

"Why do we start from the premise of stipulating who can live where?"

You know the answer to that one as well.

Buddy Posted on 18/02/2012 12:48
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

No, I don't.

r00fie Posted on 18/02/2012 12:51
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

Anyone who is economically non - productive should either be made to work for nothing or have their social security taken away.

Oooooops.
Sorry, but thats happening already isnt it.[V]

undertone Posted on 18/02/2012 12:58
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

@ Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants .. Sorry pal we can't take any more of them up here in Sheltand.. TCN's are ruining the old way of life where we would never lock our cars or houses.. the eastern european kids are nickin everything art school and robbing the shops.. it's gettin like thornaby now..[B)]

tricky1992000 Posted on 18/02/2012 13:01
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

send them to the falkland islands just to p1ss the argies off.

LoonyLeftie Posted on 18/02/2012 13:14
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

You clearly have never dealt with someone who has been locked up, as a child, in a detention centre like Yarl's Wood. Many of these people are fleeing for their lives and we lock them up as if they are criminals. Then when the Home Office finally relents and admits that it is illegal to carry on this practice, those lawyers who are dedicating their careers to ensuring the world can be just a tiny bit more humane and are largely working for very low sums from the rapidly-diminishing legal aid budget get labelled "parasites"?

I think that indicates what the real problem is in this country.


Link: Yarl's Wood

borobadge Posted on 18/02/2012 13:16
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

'sadly there is no money available in the country to build houses anymore'...[:D][:D]


the stoopidity of some people, are you certain yer mam didnt call you Carl Berg...

they dont do idiots, but if they did.!

robbso Posted on 18/02/2012 13:17
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

Funny how the costs came to more than the actual damages.

onthemap Posted on 18/02/2012 13:17
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

Exactly, it's the Home Office cretins that should be detained.

Redcarbob2 Posted on 18/02/2012 14:04
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

send the buggers back

borobadge Posted on 18/02/2012 14:11
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

you up for a bit o' buggery, bob ?



if anyone cared to read the piece !!, you will see that kids were detained as adults, its our own authorities who couldnt run a bath.

robbso Posted on 18/02/2012 14:14
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

I cared to read the article, which is where i got the figuires from. It"s a fecking disgrace the money the legal profession make by trying to come across all compassionate.

Voltaire Posted on 18/02/2012 14:18
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

If everyone who moaned about or obsessed over asylum seekers were given a moderate subsidy to leave for the Costa Del Sol to set up their Red Lion pubs we'd have plenty of land and resources for more asylum seekers. Sounds like a solution to me. Encouraged expatriation for little Englanders and xenophobes.

borobadge Posted on 18/02/2012 14:20
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

i agree Robbo...

lawyers on the same ladder rung as journo's and bankers....

onthemap Posted on 18/02/2012 14:26
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

Yes because all lawyers bankers and journalists are exactly the same.

Isn't Jeremy Kyle on?

gravyboat Posted on 18/02/2012 15:24
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

I see Degsy has disappeared since Liamo told the real story.

degsyspesh Posted on 18/02/2012 18:13
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

Sadly not gravy, been out all day.....

The article says that "some" told authorities that they were over 18 (OK, I missed that word out...) - but it doesn't say that any told the authorities that they were under 18 does it? It is in interpretation. I'm sure that it would have made for a stronger story if they had initially said that they were under 18 and the fact that is doesn't say that strongly suggests to me that they didn't.

It says that some produced letters to that effect from Social Services. Fair enough, but think about it... These people arrive in this country along with thousands of others and someone has to ascertain who they are and whether they are genuine asylum seekers. They need to be assessed by social services and doctors etc and all of this stuff takes weeks. They certainly didn't arrive in this country on day 1 with a letter from social services. How many people do you think arrive with false documentation, or do you imagine that everyone seeking asylum turns up telling the truth about who they are and carries a genuine passport to prove it?

I don't think it is unreasonable to detain people while they are initially assessed in fact it would be ridiculous to do anything else? And even if you view this as a serious mistake do you feel that it warrants £25k in compensation? Sounds like a relatively easy £25k to me, especially for people who are fleeing for their lives and turning to us for help.

Borobadge - what makes you think that there is money available for building houses?




deganya Posted on 19/02/2012 19:14
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

degsey...........'Borobadge - what makes you think that there is money available for building houses?'

Well if there is 2 million to give in compensation and legal costs, it could have been used to build houses.

But if we have money to bail out Greece, and a few billion for Ireland it would suggest there is money around. Or are you falling for the government line that we are on the bones of our backsides?

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 19/02/2012 19:33
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

"what makes you think that there is money available for building houses?'"

Probably the fact we're pishing money up the wall on a daily basis in Afghanistan. Or the money we've used to bail-out Ireland. Or the money that goes unpaid in corporate tax-avoidance and evasion. And all the money they miraculously found when they wanted to go into Libya. Or the money that will no doubt become available when the government decide to get involved with Iran. Or all the money the government continually pish up the wall by 'easing' it into the banks for it never to be seen again. Then there's the £20bn for Trident. And all the money they spend on military bases all over the world. And all the money taken out of the country and stuffed in tax-havens all over the world.

The money for social-housing is there. They just spend it on other stuff.

Redcarbob2 Posted on 19/02/2012 19:39
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

there is no money available to build houses because the government are more concerned with sending benefit payments abroad to the children of eastern europeans working in this country.why do asylum seekers come to this country... because they know they will get a hand out off the government thanks to us taxpayers

oooooo Posted on 19/02/2012 20:57
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

They are children, they got locked up and the bit about them all deceiving us into thinking they were over 18 wasn't quite true was it? Did they commit a crime? No. I know not everything is black and white but this is close to it for me.

The authorities are and were able to determine their age. Perhaps some did say they were over 18 but there was absolutely nothing to gain from that.

And it's laughable that this country is XXXXXXed as a result.

Usual hyperbole.

jimmy_james Posted on 19/02/2012 21:03
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

You do not seem to have worked out that the lawyers have made an absolute fortune out of this.

And the lawyers were sponsored by both the main parties, not the other way round.

Redcarbob2 Posted on 19/02/2012 21:05
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

They are children, they got locked up and the bit about them all deceiving us into thinking they were over 18 wasn't quite true was it? Did they commit a crime? No..ERM YES.they came into the country ILLEGALLY

oooooo Posted on 19/02/2012 21:07
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

Coming into the country is illegal? Did I miss a memo?

You don't seem to be even remotely informed on what an asylum seeker is. Try reading up.


Redcarbob2 Posted on 19/02/2012 21:09
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

i suppose they all had passports .get real

oooooo Posted on 19/02/2012 21:10
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

Seriously, go and look up the difference between immigrants, illegal immigrants and asylum seekers. It just makes you look a bit silly if you don't know the basics but expect anyone to take your views seriously.

borolad259 Posted on 19/02/2012 21:14
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

OK, here's one for the hard of thinking...

Spot the real parasites in the story.

Redcarbob2 Posted on 19/02/2012 21:15
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

i know the basics. illegals/immigrants,call them what you want,they come to this country because of the benefits this government continues to hand out to them.oh. and compensation

oooooo Posted on 19/02/2012 21:19
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

Illegal immigrants - not entitled to benefits, the clue is the 'illegal' bit.

Asylum seekers - not entitled to work or receive the benefits the rest of us are entitled to.

It's important to know the difference.

the_dude_strikes_back Posted on 19/02/2012 21:31
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

just another rascist rant, similiar to how the nazis amd nationalism first started off by wanting all jews out, doesnt anybody learn about intlerance of different races


the fact you can get away with it is purely down to wordplay

yu XXXXXXing cock end of a human being

shocking

Redcarbob2 Posted on 19/02/2012 21:40
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

im not rascist i just think the £1.2 million of taxpayers money could have been better spent on building new schools or hospitals

Thornaby_Boro Posted on 19/02/2012 21:45
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

Immigation handbook for Liberals. Rule 1. 'When you're losing the argument, call your opponent racist, preferably with a reference to Hitler and the Nazis'

oooooo Posted on 19/02/2012 21:51
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

Nope, haven't done that.

the_dude_strikes_back Posted on 19/02/2012 21:55
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

nazi middlesbrough

Thornaby_Boro Posted on 19/02/2012 22:07
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

The Dude did. Your mistake (or maybe your naivety) is to believe people who claim to be asylum seekers are indeed, seeking asylum. I would have thought the fact that they lied about their age would cast doubt over other claims they make but maybe not if you're naive.

the_dude_strikes_back Posted on 19/02/2012 22:10
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

typical right wing waffle

all liberals or people with compassion are stupid and naive

i take my views from historical data, you take yours from the daily mail

the end


Free_Subbuteo_171 Posted on 19/02/2012 22:13
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

Fantastic debating skills The_Dude....again.

Well done you.

the_dude_strikes_back Posted on 19/02/2012 22:20
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

i dont see britain as some 'we' collective, and how we should XXXXXX anybody else off who needs help

it isnt a debate, its just hatred but you think somebody is benefitting from the fruits of your labour

its a myth


oooooo Posted on 19/02/2012 22:21
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

Wouldn't it be more benficial to pretend you were under 18? I find it hard to take them giving their age incorrectly as some sort of ploy to game the system when it doesn't benefit them.

stepanovs Posted on 19/02/2012 22:23
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

So it is right to lock an asylum seeking child up for a month??

As is often the case, the amount paid seems high, but they were wrongly detained and deserving of some sort of compensation.

Barnsy Posted on 19/02/2012 22:28
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

Redcar Bob:

A racist? Or misinformed? Or slightly intolerant? Or a Sun reader?

You decide.

the_dude_strikes_back Posted on 19/02/2012 22:33
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

reading this thread, i now understand why unemployment is high and wages are low in teesside, and 'foreigners getting free dole' is not the reason


br14 Posted on 19/02/2012 22:37
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

Surely if you're that desperate to escape you wouldn't care where you were housed in the short term. It has to be better than where you're from.

The Guardian doesn't say, but I assume the kids spoke via interpreters. Seems odd that they'd speak English without having a decent education. Hardly easy to come by in Eritrea.

And how does someone under 18 travel to Britain? Not the easiest thing for a child traveling alone. You'd either have to get on a plane (surely unlikely), or travel through several EU countries en route.

Still, at least a few lawyers made a fortune. And the children have a nice start in life in the UK.

degsyspesh Posted on 19/02/2012 23:11
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

Dude - you are a genuine schizo aren't you and tonight we are blessed with your bellend persona....

"just another rascist rant, similiar to how the nazis amd socialism first started off by wanting all jews out, doesnt anybody learn about intlerance of different races"

This isn't anything to do with racism, it is to do with whether you believe that c.£25k is a reasonable compensation for a youth who spends a month in an adults centre having told (in some cases) the authorities that they are adults.

Personally, I find the idea of somebody suing this country in connection with its asylum procedures having come here supposedly in fear for their lives utterly abhorrent.

I completely agree that the leeches in all this are the solicitors who have found a legal anomaly and exploited it for their own gain but the fact remains that we have a legal system that allows such things to occur.

Regarding the housing issue, yes - there clearly is money available to subsidise housing (as this case proves) if the government wish. But the fact is that the government don't wish - which is why last year we built the lowest number of houses per head of population since the 1800's - and this year we are likely to build even less.

the_dude_strikes_back Posted on 19/02/2012 23:15
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

i'll tell you what i think of it

it doesn't make me think............

maybe that where you and i have a different outlook on what life is all about

maybe if you got your leg over a few times more a year, you wouldnt spend so much time endlessly XXXXXXing on about small scale events in the media that revolve around immigrants because for some reason its all you ever toss on about you intolerant, right wing, tedious right wing nazi virgin


degsyspesh Posted on 19/02/2012 23:16
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

quod erat demonstrandum

robbso Posted on 19/02/2012 23:17
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

"similiar to how the nazis amd socialism first started"

Does that even make sense? Not talking about the amd either[smi]

the_dude_strikes_back Posted on 19/02/2012 23:19
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

your hatred of brown people in and around teesside is well known

its a disgrace your allowed a voice

Voltaire Posted on 19/02/2012 23:24
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

Dude - please don't equate Nazis and socialism.

robbso Posted on 19/02/2012 23:26
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

[:D]Strange person.

Not aimed at you V.

Led_Zepp Posted on 19/02/2012 23:55
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

Oh dear the dunce strikes back...what's up with you? Dad getting more pussy than you?

Revol_Tees Posted on 20/02/2012 00:17
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

Imagine if one of degsyspesh's kids went abroad, and was in danger, but ended up being arbitrarily imprisoned by the authorities and held in detention alongside hundreds of vulnerable, damaged and potentially dangerous adults from all four corners of the earth despite not having done anything illegal in the first place.

I wonder, in those circumstances, how much blame he would apportion to the state, how much compensation he'd expect after the ordeal, and how much ill-informed bile he'd unleash on this messageboard in the process.

degsyspesh Posted on 20/02/2012 00:24
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

If one of my kids was in fear of their lives and turned to another country for help and that country took them in then frankly I wouldn't give a f'ck about the conditions that they had to live under for a month - my only concern would be that they were safe. No harm came to anyone - it is a nothing situation that has been exasperated by a'hole lawyers.

"arbitrarily imprisoned", "ill-informed bile", "not having done anything illegal" - what would you like the authorities to do with people who enter the country without permission?

Silly little boy.

Revol_Tees Posted on 20/02/2012 00:48
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

Silly little boy? Actually I've worked with asylum seekers and refugees for years. And I've known young people who've been put at severe risk because they've been detained and accommodated alongside adults who themselves fall into the "vulnerable" category.

So you wouldn't care if your 15-year old daughter was detained for a month, alone, at close quarters with a group of men in their 30s, many of whom had mental health issues? And if she wasn't told why she was there and when she'd be allowed to leave?

Or how about if she was taken out of detention and housed in bedsit accommodation used almost entirely for the purposes of prostitution by the other people staying there? And if she was then pressured or groomed into becoming involved herself? (All unknown to the authorities, course.)

"frankly I wouldn't give a f'ck about the conditions that they had to live under for a month"

In that case, shame on you.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 20/02/2012 00:55
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

That sound you can hear is the quite beautiful 'thwack' of ball against net as Revol_Tees fires an absolute pile-driver into the postage stamp to go 1-0 up...

MaggieThatcherRules Posted on 20/02/2012 05:57
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

Interesting thread.

Legal leeches sucking the life out of the country.

There's certainly no racism in there from deggsy.

The country is fcuked. I've all but given up on it.

The dude, go and find another thread to spout your loony left poisoness shlt.

degsyspesh Posted on 20/02/2012 08:40
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

R-T, you are arguing an entirely different point - ie is it right that youths were kept in such circumstances and neither I nor anyone else is saying that it is right.

My argument is solely around the perversity of an asylum seeker suing the country that has taken them in when their lives were supposedly in danger.

I spent around 18 months working for NASS checking the suitability of accommodation for asylum seekers across the north east at the peak of the asylum problem and through this met several thousand asylum seekers so I am far from ignorant regarding the situation.

My stance remains that as a country we have a duty to take in people who's lives are in danger but we also have a duty to ensure that these people are properly and fully assessed on arrival to ensure that they don't represent a danger to others or themselves etc. This assessment takes time and during this period I strongly feel that it is essential that they are securely held.

Given the circumstances and the sheer volumes of people there will always be occasions when people end up in the wrong places. But, to go back to your question regarding my own children, if they were in fear of there lives and sought asylum in another country and that country took them in then and made them safe then I would just be grateful regardless if whether they had stayed temporarily in the wrong accommodation.

MarlonD Posted on 20/02/2012 09:07
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

"Dare not express any view that is anything but extreme left wing for fear of the board political intelligentsa beating you to death with a pair of their old cords"

This is in the sign-up rules.

And before anyone states right wing this, right wing that, you can't even have centre views on here without being branded a racist.

Its the fcuking sh1ts on here now.

Gene_Vincent Posted on 20/02/2012 09:08
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

Of course one of the leading firms of solicitors for helping illegals line their pockets with public money is a certain Matrix Chambers.......Run by Ms Cherie Booth QC.

oooooo Posted on 20/02/2012 09:26
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

What the dude said above was vile, btw.

Lefties, righties - whatever. There's people above who openly admitted they didn't know the difference between an immigrant, an illegal immigrant and an asylum seeker. So what do they do? Read up on it? Find out more? No - just claim you can't have a view on here.

EpiphanyProudfoot Posted on 20/02/2012 09:31
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

They are there to be exploited.

Not enough female asylum seekers for my liking. Would'nt mind a feel of their bushes......for a small fee of course.

mfctraveller Posted on 20/02/2012 09:37
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

This country is full, and no more immigration of any type should be allowed, wishful thinking I know but with millions unemployed and budgets being all over a rethink is needed.

flaps Posted on 20/02/2012 09:39
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

Yes let's build a big wall so that nobody and nothing can get in or out of the country and enjoy our transformation into North Korea.

oooooo Posted on 20/02/2012 09:39
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

"This country is full"

Load of XXXXXXe!

EpiphanyProudfoot Posted on 20/02/2012 09:41
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

I can tell you this much, Asylum costs the country a very small percentage of the budget.

jam69 Posted on 20/02/2012 09:46
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

its not full have you been to the scottish highlands? as for fcked nope its quite a nice place to live.still makes a nice headline.
as for right wingers theres loads on here so that dont wash either

MarlonD Posted on 20/02/2012 09:47
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

There should be a lot more control on immigration but anytime a government tries to bring in any sort of measure the left wing minority start tub thumping.

Mind they're doint it now as the Tories try to get a grip of our ballooning over spending benefits system.


oooooo Posted on 20/02/2012 09:49
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

You probably missed that report recently which showed that man for man, immigrants claim less than non-immigrants.

I guess people who were born here feel more of a sense of entitlement?

MarlonD Posted on 20/02/2012 09:52
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

Read my last line of my previous post.

I am well aware that we have a problem with 2nd & 3rd geneartion UK born serial benefit claimants but that shouldn't detract from other issues.

jam69 Posted on 20/02/2012 09:53
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

immigrants work harder,spend less time on the sick and are less likely to claim beneifits than those born here.
can we have more and ship some of our home grown couch potato spongers out?

oooooo Posted on 20/02/2012 09:55
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

I just see the relevance of the benefits point, presumed it was because you thought immigrants were a burden on our benefits system?

MarlonD Posted on 20/02/2012 09:59
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

Immigrants, dole wallers, benefits cheats etc etc, all burdens on every single honest tax paying UK citizen.

And one shouldn't be used as an argument agaianst clamping down on another, all need to be gripped by a government and sorted asap.

oooooo Posted on 20/02/2012 10:00
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

Are immigrants with a job a burden? [?]

It's catch-all generalisations like that which de-rail any sensible debate.

MarlonD Posted on 20/02/2012 10:09
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

Ok I'll rephrase it just for clarification.

The 'immigrants' who come to this country who haven't got a penny to scratch their arses with but are put straight into the benefit system to move numbers from obne government dept to another.


oooooo Posted on 20/02/2012 10:18
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Fair enough, I don't want that either but I'd like to see some stats on how many of those there are as I think it's a bit of a straw man myth.

gravyboat Posted on 20/02/2012 10:24
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What Buddy said.


Revol_Tees Posted on 20/02/2012 10:35
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degsyspesh: it's not an entirely different point at all. If young people are put at risk -- severe risk -- by the state, do they have the legal right to sue? If the answer is yes, then it should apply as much to refugees and other migrants who have settled here as it should to British-born kids. To suggest that young refugees should waive their rights and accept inferior treatment out of gratitude for being granted asylum is frankly outrageous, not least because some of these children (future British citizens) will already have been through enough trauma before their emotions and personalities are even more mangled by the UK asylum process.

Unfortunately I am not in the least bit surprised to hear these kinds of views from a former NASS worker (National Asylum Support Service for those here who don't know). That's an indictment of the system in itself!

EpiphanyProudfoot Posted on 20/02/2012 11:15
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Polish workers are great!

Graft all day,the female workers provide a bit of eye candy and have nice bottoms.

Much rather employ these specimens than northern fatties who are pulling sickies all the time.


Gene_Vincent Posted on 20/02/2012 11:19
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"If young people are put at risk -- severe risk -- by the state, do they have the legal right to sue? "

If they have lied to the authorities about their age, then no.

degsyspesh Posted on 20/02/2012 12:45
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R-T "If young people are put at risk -- severe risk -- by the state, do they have the legal right to sue? If the answer is yes, then it should apply as much to refugees and other migrants who have settled here as it should to British-born kids. To suggest that young refugees should waive their rights and accept inferior treatment out of gratitude for being granted asylum is frankly outrageous...."

To you it may be outrageous - to me it isn't. The expession "biting the hand that feeds you" springs to mind.

You refer to the "severe risk" that these youths have been exposed to - do you actually know that this happened in these cases, there is no reference to it as far as I am aware?

When an asylum seeker first arrives in this country I do not believe that they should have the full rights of uk citizens - that is a ludicrous suggestion. The fact that they are detained while they are assessed is essential and when people lie to authorities then issues like this will regrettably arise - but for this country to pay out £25k to each person in this case is unbelievable given the circumstances.


Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 20/02/2012 12:52
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'Roofie - sadly there is no money available in the country to build houses anymore......'

Oh but there is!!!! It may be in the wrong hands, but the country's still a wealthy one.

I'm surprised at you Degsy [:D]


degsyspesh Posted on 20/02/2012 13:08
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CtC - I did clarify that point further down......[:D]

onthemap Posted on 20/02/2012 13:54
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"reading this thread, i now understand why unemployment is high and wages are low in teesside, and 'foreigners getting free dole' is not the reason"

Absolutely spot on, there are people in this thread who should hang their heads in shame.

degsyspesh Posted on 20/02/2012 20:14
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"reading this thread, i now understand why unemployment is high and wages are low in teesside, and 'foreigners getting free dole' is not the reason"

Nail on head. [sad]

It's sad how discussions like this tend to descend to the same predictable knuckle dragging level........


stepanovs Posted on 20/02/2012 20:31
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I read somewhere that migrants, overall, pay £2bn more in taxes than they take in benefits.

Revol_Tees Posted on 20/02/2012 22:49
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degsyspesh: with each post, it becomes ever more astonishing that you could have worked for NASS either as an employee of the Home Office or a subcontractor. All I can think is that it's either a reflection of what a shambles the Home Office is that they could employ someone so ill-informed about the asylum process and prejudiced about the motives of asylum seekers (as I presumed earlier), or that it's a complete fabrication designed to add credence to your opinion that "this country is f**ked" because of asylum etc.

Firstly, the point with regards to children's rights is not whether any of them ended up being abused or otherwise harmed, as anyone familiar with safeguarding children would know (including, supposedly, frontline workers) -- the point is that they were exposed to the risk, which in this setting, and with this particular social group, would be very high indeed. In any case, it is clear that they would suffer from the experience -- who wouldn't, FFS? -- which is why it's been deemed high-risk enough to be unlawful. Imprisoning any adolescent for a month among adults is not conducive to their physical or mental wellbeing, let alone if they're exceptionally vulnerable.

All the more reason for the litigation -- which, as the Guardian report points out, actually forced the government to review its policy, and rightly so. I find it hard to believe that you would be happy for a child of your own to be imprisoned at close quarters for a lengthy period with hundreds of fragile, desperate and potentially threatening young men from all over the world. Especially if your child had just fled from abuse in their home country.

Secondly, it is fairly clear that the detention of these young people went way beyond the practical necessity of holding newly arrived asylum seekers in reception centres immediately upon arrival (prior to dispersal) or in removal centres immediately before removal/deportation. These were detained for much longer than necessary and in some cases were moved from one detention centre to another repeatedly. More importantly, if the Home Office was presented with information concluding that they were under-18, social services should have been called in to support the young people immediately; they weren't, and instead they were placed at risk, and that is a c-ck up for which the Home Office has only been made accountable (to its own rules!) by the threat of litigation.

Thirdly, you've claimed repeatedly that some of these young people "lied about their age", even though there is no suggestion of this, and anyone familiar with assessment procedures in the initial stages of the asylum process (and with age-disputed cases more specifically) would be well aware of a more likely scenario: that an asylum seeker from a failed state in (e.g.) Africa may not even know their own date of birth, may not understand the question being asked, and to quote from the Guardian report: "Home Office officials with no specialist knowledge or experience of working with children simply looked at the appearance and demeanour of the children before deciding how old they were." Hence lots of asylum seekers having a date of birth that reads 01/01/19__. Add to this the absence of adequate interpreters (or sometimes any interpretation service) at all and it isn't hard to see why the Home Office gets it wrong half the time and why the information gleaned from initial interviews is often hugely flawed.

Finally, that the expession "biting the hand that feeds you" should spring into the mind of a former NASS employee/subcontractor in this discussion is a particular irony, but also quite refreshingly honest. This assumption that asylum seekers who've fled persecution abroad should be happy with whatever they're given in Britain is presumably the rationale for treating them like dirt in the first place, whether it's detaining children alongside vulnerable adults, providing people with £6 worth of vouchers per week to live on while they wait for their case to be resolved, or accommodating them in hostels and houses that have pest infestations.

Extending that logic to other groups of migrants and their descendants would be a good way of ensuring that nobody ever complained about their treatment at the hands of the authorities ever again -- and why stop at migrants? That's just the thin end of the wedge...

degsyspesh Posted on 20/02/2012 23:30
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Sorry - but you are preaching shoite.

Nowhere have I questioned the motives of asylum seekers

Nowhere have I suggested that it is a complete fabrication

Nowhere have I suggested that holding asylum seekers in this way was conducive to their physical or mental wellbeing

Nowhere have I aid that I would be happy for a child of mine to be kept in such circumstances - only that I would be grateful that they were safe and that there lives were not under threat

Contrary to what you suggest it is most certainly not clear that detention went beyond practical necessity. Neither you nor I know the circumstances.

Contrary to what you suggest there is a very clear suggestion of that the young people lied about their age - to quote the article "...He [a UK Border Agency Spokesman] said some children told officials they were over 18...."

Contrary to what you state - where have I suggested that we should treat them like dirt? Indeed where have I even suggested that the treatment that they received was acceptable - I haven't?

All I have said is that I find it perverse that we pay compensation to people who we are trying to help.

As far as your last comment goes - "Extending that logic to other groups of migrants and their descendants would be a good way of ensuring that nobody ever complained about their treatment at the hands of the authorities ever again -- and why stop at migrants? That's just the thin end of the wedge..." I genuinely don't know where to begin other than to suggest that you clearly have a lot of issues with society that need addressing.

Anyway, please don't let any of this stop you from making up any more drivel out of absolutely nothing to suit you "argument".

You may well feel that the compensation given to these people was fair and reasonable - I don't. I have no problem with a difference of opinion on the issue but please don't just make stuff up out of nothing in a childish attempt to support your position.

Revol_Tees Posted on 21/02/2012 00:00
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Oh dear.

"Nowhere have I questioned the motives of asylum seekers": except where you've repeatedly said they lied about their age, which you've just done again. The Home Office quote does not say they lied: it says they told officials they were over-18. There's a big difference, as it could simply be a misunderstanding for the many reasons mentioned in my post above -- initial interviews are often carried out in a wholly unsatisfactory manner.

"Nowhere have I suggested that holding asylum seekers in this way was conducive to their physical or mental wellbeing": Nowhere have you denied it either. You seem to consistently fail to even acknowledge that these young people were at risk while they were detained in adult detention centres, as the Home Office itself now admits.

"Nowhere have I aid that I would be happy for a child of mine to be kept in such circumstances": you openly said you "wouldn't give a f'ck about the conditions that they had to live under for a month" provided they were "safe" -- which, er, they wouldn't be in an adult detention centre, which is the whole point, and which is why it has been deemed unlawful for young people to held there.

"Contrary to what you suggest it is most certainly not clear that detention went beyond practical necessity. Neither you nor I know the circumstances."

Er, it is clear: that's why it's been deemed unlawful! Once again, even if we agreed that detention was necessary before dispersal, that would take place at a reception centre, not a detention facility like Yarl's Wood. And even if we agreed that it was necessary prior to removal, it would not justify holding a child for over a month, not least because that is much longer than it takes for removal directions to be issued.

Shall we go on?

What was your job for the Home Office again? Immigration Minister? [:D]

degsyspesh Posted on 21/02/2012 00:19
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I really can't be ar5ed with this as it is like arguing with teenager with hormonal issues. However.......

"except where you've repeatedly said they lied about their age" - no, I have quoted the report.

"The Home Office quote does not say they lied: it says they told officials they were over-18". Errrrr, words fail me.

"Nowhere have you denied it either" - If it makes you happy - I DENY IT. For the record for those who are simply minded, I am not in any way in favour of this practice - I just accept it as an unfortunate outcome in exceptionally difficult circumstances.

Are you suggesting that "not giving f'ck" and "being happy" are the same thing? They aren't. It is possible to accept something without being happy about it.

"Er, it is clear: that's why it's been deemed unlawful!" yet again you are twisting what I said in a very amateurish way.

Yet again I repeat that MY ONLY argument is that we do not owe newly arrived asylum seekers the same duty of care as we owe our own citizens. I do not feel that what has happened in this situation is right - only that we should not have to pay out compensation in such circumstances to people who turn to us for help when they are supposedly in fear for their lives and who we do our best for.

For clarity - do you feel that it is reasonable to pay somebody c.£25k in such circustances when, as far as has been reported, there are no actual "damages" beyond the unpleasantness of a youth having to stay in an adult centre?

"Shall we go on??"

If you can bring yourself to debate a serious point without continually making stuff up then yeah, go for it - but I don't think that we'll get anywhere.....

Revol_Tees Posted on 21/02/2012 00:53
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Happy to debate all day and let you keep digging. I'm hardly twisting your words when I'm using actual quotes where you've contradicted yourself.

You've just once again denied that you're questioning the motives of asylum seekers, and then a few paragraphs later written about asylum seekers being "supposedly" in fear of their lives. Supposedly? Supposedly? That's questioning whether they're really in fear of their lives, isn't it? What, in this context, would make you think they're not?

And I repeat again: for reasons stated above, telling officials that they're 18+ when the reality is otherwise, in the context of an initial interview, not does not necessarily mean that they've lied. It could be a misunderstood question: are you over 18, followed by a nod. Anyone who claims to be familiar with the asylum process would know this much. Read the report again about how these interviews are conducted. Read reports by NGOs and academics. Read the Home Office's own evaluations and policy reviews.

Did you really work for the National Asylum Support Service?

And for clarity: yes, I think compensation for being falsely imprisoned for a month is reasonable. I'd expect the same. Any human being falsely imprisoned deserves justice, although I do hesitate to put a monetary value on it.

And once again, there seems to be a failure to grasp the enormity of the mistreatment that's been meted out here. Being imprisoned arbitrarily is beyond "unpleasantness" for a child. If you were locked up for a month with no reason, it would be bit more than "unpleasant". That is why it's illegal for the authorities to do it.

br14 Posted on 21/02/2012 02:20
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"I think compensation for being falsely imprisoned for a month is reasonable"

25,000 for a month seems a little excessive. Which I think is really the point. I suppose they couldn't really give them less than the lawyers that represented the kids.

Whatever else is true this is just an excuse to create tax payer funded lawyers.

gravyboat Posted on 21/02/2012 08:50
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'Yet again I repeat that MY ONLY argument is that we do not owe newly arrived asylum seekers the same duty of care as we owe our own citizens.'

That pretty much sums your stance up in a nutshell. All humans are equal. Except when they're not.

MaggieThatcherRules Posted on 21/02/2012 09:08
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Revol Tees standard Lefty manipulating/embelleshing/padding argument rather than laying down facts.

Very familiar Story


degsyspesh Posted on 21/02/2012 12:43
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" All humans are equal. Except when they're not."

Of course they are not equal in a legal sense, they have entered a country illegally and must be treated as such until they claim asylum and that claim is accepted.

R-T, I used the term "supposedly" as a significant proportion of those who seek asylum are not in fear of their lives, they are just economic migrants - as I'm sure you well know.

Revol_Tees Posted on 21/02/2012 13:06
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They are not equal in a legal sense to the extent that special measures are taken to process the claims (e.g. restrictions on freedom of movement) -- it has nothing to do with having "entered a country illegally" -- but they still have legal rights, and that includes the right not to be detained indefinitely for no good reason. "Fear of absconding" is usually the reason given: but it is quite arbitrary, because most asylum seekers who are accommodated in the community have to report to their local police station regularly anyway as a condition of their asylum claim being processed.

"they have entered a country illegally and must be treated as such until they claim asylum and that claim is accepted."

Wrong again. Illegal entry is not making yourself known to the authorities on arrival. By definition, if you've claimed asylum then you have to have done so either at the port of entry, or at the earliest opportunity afterwards. So to suggest that people should be treated as if they've committed a criminal offence is utterly disingenuous here: arriving in a country by boat, plane or lorry to claim asylum is absolutely legal. Incidentally, the fact that false documentation is sometimes necessary to flee countries of origin is also recognised in international law.

You don't seem to be very familiar with any aspect of the asylum process, degsy. Surprising for someone who used to work for the National Asylum Support Service. Supposedly.

degsyspesh Posted on 21/02/2012 20:23
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R-T....when I referred to you as a silly little boy I was slightly concerned that I might be being a bit harsh, many thanks for putting my mind at rest.

Lefty Posted on 21/02/2012 21:08
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'I spent around 18 months working for NASS checking the suitability of accommodation for asylum seekers across the north east at the peak of the asylum problem and through this met several thousand asylum seekers so I am far from ignorant regarding the situation.'


Is it just me that finds something about this sentence at odds with the thread title?


degsyspesh Posted on 21/02/2012 21:14
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?

Lefty Posted on 21/02/2012 21:28
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Well, you might not have meant to, but you admitted that the peak of the asylum problem was some time ago.

I wasn't particularly worried anyway, but surely you can take some comfort that the country survived that period?

degsyspesh Posted on 21/02/2012 21:33
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I wasn't referring to the country being f'cked because of asylum seekers themselves (although I take your point regarding the thread title [:D]) - more the UK legal system that thinks it is reasonable to pay an asylum seeking youth £25k because they spent a month being detained in the wrong type of institution.

r00fie Posted on 21/02/2012 21:40
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Concentration camps used to imprison people displaced by wars perpetuated by western powers for self interest.

Bombs = consequencies. More to it than being "fkd".

Guardian headline just now: UK ready for air strikes on Somalia! - expect plenty more. Its our own fault.

We dont want anymore war.

Thats the real question.

degsyspesh Posted on 21/02/2012 21:43
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roofie - [^]

Revol_Tees Posted on 21/02/2012 21:46
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lefty: it's not just at odds with title -- it's at odds with just about everything else he's written on the thread as well. Full of mistakes and inaccuracies that should be obvious to anyone who really had worked in the asylum process, followed by one-line insults when challenged. The classic tactics of a right-wing internet troll.

[:o)]

r00fie Posted on 21/02/2012 21:47
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[;)]

Redcarbob2 Posted on 21/02/2012 22:00
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

@Barnsy 1 out of 4[;)]

Lefty Posted on 21/02/2012 22:00
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I confess I did a fair bit of skimming on this thread but the impression I got was that it was the asylum seekers draining the country's resources that were the target of your rage rather than the legal system, degsy. My apologies.

Did these people all receive a flat £25k do you know?

degsyspesh Posted on 21/02/2012 22:06
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Dunno - £1.02M between 40.....

Just to reiterate - I've got absolutely nothing against asylum seekers (the genuine ones anyway) - just our legal system that enables a-hole solicitors to exploit it for their own gain.

Lefty Posted on 21/02/2012 22:12
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That confuses me even more.

It is possible, then, that the compensation that each child received was different and reflected the different treatment/conditions/effects that they suffered. In fact it is more likely than simply an arbitrary blanket amount spread across the board, would you agree?

r00fie Posted on 21/02/2012 22:13
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[:D][^]This thread is MINT[:D]

MFC_Riverside Posted on 21/02/2012 22:14
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Why don't they claim compensation for the reasons why they had to move here? I'm sure the conditions that they were treat with here were far better than they recieved back home.

degsyspesh Posted on 21/02/2012 22:15
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

obviously.

£25k is an average figure - some will probably have received more than £25k, some less.

robbso Posted on 21/02/2012 22:17
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"A total of £1,020,000 was paid to the children in compensation for their wrongful detention in adult centres and £1,085,000 was paid in costs"

Mmm, i see the legal Eagles did the work for the childrens benefit then.

I hate repeating myself but there you go.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 21/02/2012 22:54
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4-0, Shirley?

Lefty Posted on 21/02/2012 23:22
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

'Just to reiterate - I've got absolutely nothing against asylum seekers (the genuine ones anyway) - just our legal system that enables a-hole solicitors to exploit it for their own gain.'


I am still confused, degsy.

You seem to be saying that you have nothing against genuine asylum seekers so what we are left with is you being annoyed at lawyers for representing children. Are you saying that children should not have the protection of the law or that they (and indeed everyone) should represent themselves if they are not very wealthy?

I doubt it is, so in fact it is that they are asylum seekers that is part of your objection. This means that you must think that non uk citizens should not be entitled to legal representation for anything that happens to them on our shores, unless they can pay for it, doesnít it? Would you exempt tourists from this? People who visit for commerce?

Letís be honest, it isnít the lawyers that are what you have a problem with. What you are saying is that these people were in a sh!t place in their own country so when they come here they should be happy with what they get. It is fine to treat them as criminals and leave them open to all sorts of potential abuse even though they are children and no matter what happens to them they shouldnít get access to any legal redress or even a letter of complaint written by pink ponce. That way the lawyers will not get any money and the authorities and other prisoners can do what they like to children without any fear of redress.

If it genuinely isnít the asylum seeking bit that angers you then you, like me, should be angry at the £1m legal fees and ashamed at the £1m compensation, but the target of your anger should be directed at the authorities who acted shamefully.

Iíll highlight it again, as others have already on this thread,

"One of the most shocking aspects of the case was that, despite the widespread concerns about what was going on, the Home Office did nothing to change the situation until they were forced to do so by children bringing litigation.í


degsyspesh Posted on 21/02/2012 23:32
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"I am still confused"

Having read the rest of your post you are clearly an idiot and therefore I am not surprised.

Lefty Posted on 21/02/2012 23:40
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You think that the different amounts of compensation were only for the different lengths of time and nothing else?

gravyboat Posted on 21/02/2012 23:43
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I think that might be 5

zaphod Posted on 21/02/2012 23:45
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These children will be supported by the state, anyway, so paying them compensation just means they'll spend that instead of getting benefits.

oooooo Posted on 21/02/2012 23:48
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I suppose that relies on how limited relative's access is. I doubt it will be something they can ring-fence.

LoonyLeftie Posted on 22/02/2012 00:08
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"Of course one of the leading firms of solicitors for helping illegals line their pockets with public money is a certain Matrix Chambers.......Run by Ms Cherie Booth QC."

Matrix Chambers is composed of barristers. The clue is in the word "Chambers". Booth does not "run" the Chambers. She has a tenancy at the Chambers. (Her husband was the prime minister of the most authoritarian and anti-immigrant government of the post-war era (NB: an assertion based on fact, rather than perception)).

People seeking sanctuary are not illegal immigrants.

As for the rest of the thread, I can't bring myself to exhaust any more of the precious seconds of my life reading such bigoted, non-informed bull. The breathtaking ignorance of some of the contributors to this particular debate is nothing short of astonishing. The sheer lack of knowledge of some of the people who have added comments to this thread is an insult to our area and our country.

LoonyLeftie Posted on 22/02/2012 00:11
Asylum Seekers - This Country is F'cked....

One last bite...

"'Just to reiterate - I've got absolutely nothing against asylum seekers (the genuine ones anyway) - just our legal system that enables a-hole solicitors to exploit it for their own gain.'"

Are you going to give examples of how the legal system and evil, sadistic, greedy lawyers "exploit [the system] for their own gain"?

Liamo Posted on 22/02/2012 06:17
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Why do people keep repeating this myth that somehow a bunch of asylum seekers all lied about their age and then got £25,000 each for just one month's detention?

As clearly stated in the article, in many cases the asylum seekers did not lie, they even produced documentation from Social Services stating they were 'looked-after children' but were locked up anyway. And I don't know where you're getting the figure of one month from. In the article, there is only one specific length of time mentioned, for one detainee, of 74 days.

However, as other articles about the same practice show, in other cases children were held for much longer. The worst example was where four children aged 7, 11, 12 & 13 were locked up not for one month, not 3 months, 6 months or 9 but for 13 months.

Degsy, let me ask you - do you really think a practice that allows a 7-year old to be unlawfully detained in an adult facility for 13 months should not be challenged?

The children - for make no mistake, that's what the ones bringing the lawsuit were - who brought this case did not do it for the money, they did it to prevent the practice from continuing. Because, as also stated in the article, despite widespread concerns being raised, including by HM Inspectorate of Prisons, the Home Office did not stop the practice until forced to do so.

As one of the four children who was detained for 13 months said, 'I would much prefer to have [received] no money and to have never gone through the ordeal of detention.'

r00fie Posted on 22/02/2012 06:19
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Liamo - that last sentence from that young child puts the rest of the drivel in perspective[^]