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tranceaddict Posted on 17/02/2012 10:00
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work


One step closer to the Workhouses


Link: Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

asredastheycome Posted on 17/02/2012 10:16
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Saw this on the box last night another disgrace up there with subsidising Tesco's millions with free workers paid for by taxpayers through JSA.

tranceaddict Posted on 17/02/2012 11:04
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work


Heard about Tesco yesterday, I said on here a few months ago what will happen, Paid staff will be replaced by free workers, people need to stop shopping at these big Corp supermarkets and start supporting their local shops.

Holgatewall Posted on 17/02/2012 11:08
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

same as putting 20,000 jobs into prisons and paying less than minimum wage.
[V]
Shocking

MawTheMerrier Posted on 17/02/2012 11:18
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

tch... life is just not fair sometimes eh?


ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 17/02/2012 11:25
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

The idea of getting people off benefits into work is fine, but genuinely sick and disabled people should not be targeted. People should be assessed to see what they can do rather than what they can't do, then if they're forced to take some rubbish, menial job, they should be paid minimum wage, not benefits.

HarveyMiddlesborough Posted on 17/02/2012 12:27
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Just because you are disabled doesnt mean you are unable to work

speckyget Posted on 17/02/2012 12:31
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Absolutely right. And if you have terminal cancer - you'll want to be getting out of the house anyway. Take your mind off your impending extinction.

ccole Posted on 17/02/2012 12:41
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

I think that if only genuine sick and disabled people claimed the benefits then they wouldn’t have to introduce harsh measures and means testing.

Unfortunately, it is well accepted, like most of the welfare system, that it is abused by low life lazy barstewards who milk it for even penny they can steal. These are the people I blame for giving the genuine claimants, weak and poor a hard time.

Those and the stupid foooking leftie doyles who think no fiddling/abuse of the system goes on.


speckyget Posted on 17/02/2012 12:44
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

What's your view of the work capability assessment process ccole?

ccole Posted on 17/02/2012 12:46
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

I don’t have a view on it as I have never studied it.

Gene_Vincent Posted on 17/02/2012 12:47
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

When you have lads who have limbs blown off in afganistan, yet still manage to return to their units & do non front line work, it kind of erodes sympathy for those who claims to be able to do absolutely nothing due to stress, depression, bad backs etc.

speckyget Posted on 17/02/2012 12:49
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Do you not believe depression can be incapacitating?

ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 17/02/2012 12:49
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Exactly GV. [^]

Plenty of people on long-term sick/incapacity or whatever it's called who manage to spend plenty of time in the pub/club etc.

Emmersons_BrazillianDong Posted on 17/02/2012 12:50
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

The cancer example is one that has thrown up many cases where they are told they must work. That's a fcuking disgrace.

People with cancer FFS [|)]

GillZean Posted on 17/02/2012 12:54
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Well said ccole.[^]

Gene_Vincent Posted on 17/02/2012 12:54
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

I'm sure that some cases of depression can be debilitating. But nowhere near the levels we seem to be experiencing.

I'm also convinced that being off work and sat at home all day, isolated from others will not help to cure people of depression, panic attacks and so on.

ccole Posted on 17/02/2012 12:56
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Do you not believe depression can be incapacitating?

Yes it can be.


Do you agree some people lie about it or excaudate the illness it to milk the system?

speckyget Posted on 17/02/2012 12:57
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Do you have any training in treating these conditions?

deganya Posted on 17/02/2012 12:57
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Ccole.....'I think that if only genuine sick and disabled people claimed the benefits then they wouldn’t have to introduce harsh measures and means testing.'

Would you apply the same principle to all those avoiding paying tax?

Disibility benefit has the lowest amount of fraud, less than 0.4%. They isn't any jobs for those seeking work, but somehow they are going to find work for the sick and disabled and not bother paying them. typical tory policy, attack the poor whilst the rich get richer and don't pay their taxes.

ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 17/02/2012 13:00
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Plenty of immigrants, esp those from Eastern Europe manage to find menial, unskilled jobs. It would seem that many employers can't fill them with British people as for some, these jobs are not worth coming off benefits for.

GillZean Posted on 17/02/2012 13:01
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

GV[^]

deganya, you are right the tax avoiders/evaders should all be made to fork out. We should have bureaucrats who are capable of making watertight tax laws, maybe we could retrain the long term unemployed to do that?[:D]

ccole Posted on 17/02/2012 13:07
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Deganya - Typical leftie answer. "Its not as much as the bankers"


All waste and fiddling should be stopped, at what ever level, wouldnt you agree?

No work? What do 250,000 people a year come to this country for tnen?


plazmuh Posted on 17/02/2012 13:11
Tesco

I would be quite happy to boycott this and other stores for taking part in this deplorable underhand scheme..
If many others did the same they would understand in no uncertain terms this is unacceptable..
The man in the street have the power to shut down Tesco,s if they wanted to..
You have more power than you realise..
That is why they are scared..
DONT fcuking shop there easy..
Regards
Plazmuh
[:D][:D][^]

squarewheelbike Posted on 17/02/2012 13:14
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

One of the biggest wastes of money is all that research by qualified Doctors/Psychiatrists into the causes, effects and possible cures for "depression", when the usual suspect rightwing nutjobs on here are clearly experts!

deganya Posted on 17/02/2012 13:26
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

I agree, waste and fiddling should be stopped, but what I see is a government bringing in scheme after scheme to get the unemployed and the sick to work for nothing. This is idealogical because it provides free labour for large organisations. Tesco,top shop etc are laughing all the way to the bank as their labour costs are coming down. Would these be the same organisations that fund the Conservative party by any chance? Sainsbury and waterstones have pulled out of these government schemes out of disgust and pressure from customers and shareholders.

Have a look at Tesco's facebook page and the amount of people having a go at them and threatening to boycott their stores.

ccole Posted on 17/02/2012 13:26
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

“One of the biggest wastes of money is all that research by qualified Doctors/Psychiatrists into the causes, effects and possible cures for "depression", when the usual suspect rightwing nutjobs on here are clearly experts!”



Put your dummy back in and act like a grown up. No-one on this thread has said that depression is not an illness. A few have said that people use it for false claims for financial gain to fiddle he system introduced to help genuine cases of it.

Gene_Vincent Posted on 17/02/2012 13:47
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

It's pretty much a rule on here now that you can't have any debate with the Liberal members of the board without insults ("Right wing nutjobs") being hurled or "The bankers" being mentioned.

Anyone would think they didn't have any legitimate points to back up their arguements. [8)]

deganya Posted on 17/02/2012 13:51
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Well you would say that wouldn't you because you are one of the right wing nut jobs. And bankrupt of any legitimate argument as usual.

squarewheelbike Posted on 17/02/2012 13:55
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

I watched Panorama "Poor America" last night, and they showed footage of a Republican debate, where all the candidates dodged answering a question about giving medical treatment to coma victims without insurance. When pressed by the questioner whether they'd let them die, there were whoops of "yeah" from the audience!

GillZean Posted on 17/02/2012 14:04
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

SWB, that was a reeeeeally depressing watch- although I have managed to make it into work today[;)]

guyb Posted on 17/02/2012 14:06
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Suzanne Moore has it right this week - we've got this arse about face.

Instead of being disgusted by poverty, we're disgusted by the poor.

squarewheelbike Posted on 17/02/2012 14:12
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

GillZean, be grateful you've got your health and a job!

GillZean Posted on 17/02/2012 14:27
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

A degree of health, anyway[8)]

WestStandGeorge Posted on 17/02/2012 15:18
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Cannot believe anyone is defending the government on this. Utterly despicable.

A minority abuse the system so punish the most vulnerable in society?!


The_263 Posted on 17/02/2012 15:29
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Lots of leftwing knickers being creamed here I see - conveniently ignoring blatant sensationalism in a left wing paper!

Now if it was the other way round ...

deganya Posted on 17/02/2012 15:48
Sick and disabled face unlimitedI unpaid work

So the story of the tories getting the sick and unemployed to work for nothing is 'blatant sensationalism' eh? Well I will sleep tonight knowing that we live in a fair and compassionate society.

I watched Panorama the other night and was sickened by what I saw. people stealing sachets of tomato sauce from burger joints so that they could take them home and make a sort of tomato soup.

Oh, as for these 'work for fcuk all schemes' Tesco have taken on 15000 since the scheme was introduced but only employed 300 out of that number. As the scheme guarantees an interview but not a job. This has saved Tesco £6.5 million in wages they would have normally paid out. The tory scumbags helping those that donate to the party coffers.

oooooo Posted on 17/02/2012 15:50
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

They are talking about forcing disabled people into unpaid work. How the hell are any of you even finding an argument against this?

The_263 Posted on 17/02/2012 15:58
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

I support the government (any government) attempting to identify benefit fraudsters.

I don't shop at Tesco - in protest.

6876 Posted on 17/02/2012 15:58
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Why couldn't someone in a wheel chair not carry out a desk job for example.

Isf that wrong?

oooooo Posted on 17/02/2012 16:07
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Not all disabled people are unable to use their legs but perfectly healthy otherwise, for starters.

My question, if they are going to be doing work, can't they be paid?

gravyboat Posted on 17/02/2012 16:07
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

'I support the government (any government) attempting to identify benefit fraudsters.'

Are you of the opinion it's more important to stop those that abuse the welfare system, than it is to ensure those that require welfare are looked after, and not forced into work?

deganya Posted on 17/02/2012 16:15
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

I think most people would support a government that identifies benefit fraudsters. that isn't the point is it? it's the method of identifying them that is the issue? Do you really think this is about sussing out the fraudsters? Force a sick man into a job, if he can do the job then he was a fraudster, but if he keels over because of his illness or the tasks he's given make his condition worse then he's a genuine claimant?
What is it they say about right wingers and intelligence........ most of them have the IQ of a plant !!

Zelig Posted on 17/02/2012 16:19
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Quote "Why couldn't someone in a wheel chair not carry out a desk job for example.

Is that wrong?".

The point isn't whether or not the disabled can or can't work. The point is should they be unpaid for this work. Maybe you think they shouldn't be paid because they're disabled so can't do a good job.

Right wing clowns on here clearly know how to diagnose & treat depression better than doctors. [:o)]


The_263 Posted on 17/02/2012 16:22
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

I suppose I should overlook terms such as "some people" "the policy could mean" and "could be" in order to get my philanthropic juices gushing.

Are you asking if I would support a bill that forces terminally sick people to work? Not even the most evil right wing bsartd would support such a notion. We won't see anything draconian from any government being passed in our life time.

speckyget Posted on 17/02/2012 16:25
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

You should read the article. Terminally ill people with more than six months to live are in the group considered fit for work.

Zelig Posted on 17/02/2012 16:27
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

For nothing.

The_263 Posted on 17/02/2012 16:28
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

"The policy could mean that those on employment and support allowance who have been placed in the work-related activity group (Wrag) could be compelled to undertake work experience for charities, public bodies and high-street retailers. The Wrag group includes those who have been diagnosed with terminal cancer but have more than six months to live; accident and stroke victims; and some of those with mental health issues."

Nothing explicit there I'm afraid.

speckyget Posted on 17/02/2012 16:31
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Compelling such people to work will be within the law - they would have no legal redress, only the right to challenge their medical assessment.

Zelig Posted on 17/02/2012 16:31
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

"The Wrag group includes those who have been diagnosed with terminal cancer but have more than six months to live; accident and stroke victims; and some of those with mental health issues."

Learn to read you Nazi [:o)]

FartingGnome Posted on 17/02/2012 16:33
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Ahem, it's not "work" that's the issue, it's "unpaid work". Now go through this thread and insert "unpaid" where it's not there.

Also there is to be no time limit for this unpaid work, it's open ended, and if you don't want it you get your benefits stopped.

Next stop workhouses.

Zelig Posted on 17/02/2012 16:35
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

No workhouses are a drain on the country's finances. Next stop gas chambers.

GillZean Posted on 17/02/2012 16:50
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

What do you lot feel about the people who do dishonestly claim disability benefits?

I know they aren't as big a drain as the tax dodgers, but they are taking funds from those who need them most.

Red_Matter Posted on 17/02/2012 16:56
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

"I'm sure that some cases of depression can be debilitating. But nowhere near the levels we seem to be experiencing.

I'm also convinced that being off work and sat at home all day, isolated from others will not help to cure people of depression, panic attacks and so on."

I totally agree but my concern here is that when (and there's no question it will happen) there will be nobody within the workplace community that the person is assigned to who have the necessary psychiatric skills to ensure the correct medical protocols are implemented.

I'm telling you now, if we go down this route it will be a recipe for disastrous consequences for those suffering from what are invariably extremely debilitating psychiatric illnesses.

GillZean Posted on 17/02/2012 16:58
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Red,

I don't think we're talking about putting them in charge of air traffic control at Heathrow[:D]

Zelig Posted on 17/02/2012 17:00
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

I think we live in a country where everyone is innocent until proven guilty & that it is the job of medical practitioners to decide who is sick & who isn't & not the job of right wing newspapers, politicians, you, me or anyone else to decide this for them.

Personally I would rather live in a country where everyone is treated with dignity even if this means some fakers get through than live in a country where everyone is considered to be dishonest & risk harming people who really need support. Sadly some on here see anyone not willing or able to achieve employment as a drain on the country's finances. They are apathetic to dealing with poverty but hate the poor.

oooooo Posted on 17/02/2012 17:00
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

A person suffering depression will be affected by things that don't normally affect a well person. Thats why they are considered ill.

guyb Posted on 17/02/2012 17:04
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

The clerk, in letting Scrooge's nephew out, had let two other people in. They were portly gentlemen, pleasant to behold, and now stood, with their hats off, in Scrooge's office. They had books and papers in their hands, and bowed to him.

'Scrooge and Marley's, I believe,' said one of the gentlemen, referring to his list. 'Have I the pleasure of addressing Mr Scrooge, or Mr Marley?'

'Mr Marley has been dead these seven years,' Scrooge replied. 'He died seven years ago, this very night.'

'We have no doubt his liberality is well represented by his surviving partner,' said the gentleman, presenting his credentials.

'It certainly was, for they had been two kindred spirits. At the ominous word liberality, Scrooge frowned, and shook his head, and handed the credentials back.

'They are. Still,' returned the gentleman,' I wish I could say they were not.'

'The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?' said Scrooge.

'At this festive season of the year, Mr Scrooge,' said the gentleman, taking up a pen, 'it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the Poor and destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir.'

'Are there no prisons?"

'Plenty of prisons,' said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.
'And the Union workhouses.' demanded Scrooge. 'Are they still in operation?'

'Both very busy, sir.'

'Oh. I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course,' said Scrooge. 'I'm very glad to hear it.'

'Under the impression that they scarcely furnish Christian cheer of mind or body to the multitude,' returned the gentleman, 'a few of us are endeavouring to raise a fund to buy the Poor some meat and drink, and means of warmth. We choose this time, because it is a time, of all others, when Want is keenly felt, and Abundance rejoices. What shall I put you down for?'

'Nothing!' Scrooge replied.

'You wish to be anonymous?'

'I wish to be left alone,' said Scrooge. 'Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my answer. I don't make merry myself at Christmas and I can't afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned-they cost enough; and those who are badly off must go there.'

'Many can't go there; and many would rather die.'

'If they would rather die,' said Scrooge, 'they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."

Zelig Posted on 17/02/2012 17:05
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Gillzean so you don't mind if they break down while stacking shelves in Tesco then? Good for you.

gravyboat Posted on 17/02/2012 17:10
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

'What do you lot feel about the people who do dishonestly claim disability benefits?'

An unfortunate symptom of living in a civilised society.

Zelig Posted on 17/02/2012 17:12
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Well said Gravyboat & a price well worth paying [^]

The_263 Posted on 17/02/2012 17:14
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Zelig - calm down - you're getting excited kidda - it's just a bit of blatant sensationalism for the lefties. You'll go grey early too.

Me a Nazi? It's not what 3 little African boys call me for sponsoring their education in Africa.

GillZean Posted on 17/02/2012 17:17
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

What can we do about that symptom though, gravy?

As has been said, they are probably better out doing something relatively useful in society rather than sitting at home, becoming more and more depressed and lowering their own self-worth. Once someone is out of work for a while they get into a state where they fear responsibility and get left behind.

Zelig Posted on 17/02/2012 17:31
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

So lets take advantage of them & have them work for free then gillzean. That will improve their feeling of self worth drastically.

The-263 a pitiful attempt to disguise your right wing feelings. Hitler was good to animals, didn't stop him from being a Nazi though did it?


offside-again Posted on 17/02/2012 17:32
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

What a pack of utter chunts these Tory f uckers are. [:(!]

The sooner this pack of chunts is voted out the better.[^]

The_263 Posted on 17/02/2012 17:33
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

You're calling African kids animals.

You hypocritical racist qunt! [V]

GillZean Posted on 17/02/2012 17:35
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Can't reeeeeally be arsed to look, but I presume they will still be getting benefits?

Zelig Posted on 17/02/2012 17:36
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

As I said earlier learn to read you Nazi [:o)]

Yes Gillzean they get benefits. Maybe you would prefer a system where prisoners get fed but the unemployed & sick had to work for food?

The_263 Posted on 17/02/2012 17:45
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

A little racist chink in that left wing armour found there kidda.

OPEO Posted on 17/02/2012 17:46
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

I think anyone who votes this despicable piece of legislation through should have a miserable time for the rest of their natural. Disgraceful.

GillZean Posted on 17/02/2012 17:47
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

So they are not working for free, they are working for their benefits?

I believe this is not an entirely new system unique to Britain.

Red_Matter Posted on 17/02/2012 17:49
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

"I don't think we're talking about putting them in charge of air traffic control at Heathrow."

It makes no difference where these folk are assigned jobs. It's not their environment that will make a blind bit of difference but those that surround them will sh!t themselves when they try to comfort someone who has a psychotic episode. Good luck with that.

Zelig Posted on 17/02/2012 17:49
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

I find it amusing that right wingers like you are so ashamed of your own beliefs that you have to try & deflect attention away from them. I however am proud to be a leftie.

And if they refuse to work Gillzean what then? Gas chambers? [:o)]

icarus1965 Posted on 17/02/2012 17:50
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

unpaid work for either sick or unemployed is more or less classed as slavery ....just shows that Cameron is worse than Thatcher...

workers beware you could lose your job, then be classed as lepper by all TORY VOTERS and have to work 39 hours for £65.50..a week...
FREE...

The_263 Posted on 17/02/2012 17:57
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Some people are trying to debate - go and count your pubes! You're being silly.

GillZean Posted on 17/02/2012 17:57
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Zelig, is that aimed at me?[?]

Zelig Posted on 17/02/2012 18:01
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Noooo I think your attitude towards sick people working for their benefits is a spiffing idea & not at all morally bankrupt.

It's like Dickens was never born & Hitler was never defeated with some of you right wing fools.

onthemap Posted on 17/02/2012 18:08
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

1 It's not unpaid work.

2 An independent doctor should decide on who can and can't work.

3 We don't have a Tory government.

GillZean Posted on 17/02/2012 18:10
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Maybe you have an entrenched view that you need to look beyond? Maybe even look beyond sensationalist headlines? But hey, what do I know?

oooooo Posted on 17/02/2012 18:11
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

How much are they being paid per hour then? What's their salary? Do they get a pay slip? Do they pay national insurance? Is there an employment contract?

Zelig Posted on 17/02/2012 18:11
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Nothing,that's what you know. [:o)]

onthemap Posted on 17/02/2012 18:15
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

How much are they being paid per hour then? What's their salary?
Whatever their benefits are per hour

Do they get a pay slip?
Yes, from the job centre

Do they pay national insurance?
Yes, same as when signing

Is there an employment contract?
Yes a temporary one

GillZean Posted on 17/02/2012 18:18
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Oh Zelig, that's so hurtful.

Call me right wing again.[rle] Remember, right wing bad, left wing good, never question ANYTHING, or your mind might explode.

Red_Matter Posted on 17/02/2012 18:18
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Good luck with that Government directive. [^]

Zelig Posted on 17/02/2012 18:20
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

And so will the people currently employed in these positions when companies like Tesco stop employing them. Preferring instead to use slave labour. We knew the Tories & their friends were against the minimum wage. Who knew this would be how they chose to get around paying it.

"Remember, right wing bad, left wing good". Well you're certainly making the case for it by trying to defend the indefensible.

Dibzzz Posted on 17/02/2012 18:21
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Disgraceful.

Decision made by a clueless Tory who has no health problems no doubt.

oooooo Posted on 17/02/2012 18:39
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

onthemap, then that's below the national minimum wage as set by the government.

Zelig Posted on 17/02/2012 18:42
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

He doesn't care about silly things like people being paid the national minimum wage.

icarus1965 Posted on 17/02/2012 18:53
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

"mappy"

the Tories are not in power, ?????
why is Cameron prime minister then ????
i must say right wing voters are far thicker than left wing voters....


the Tories get round the min wage by saying it,s training..

so some people think £1.67 a hour is good...

question or tory voters

IF YOU LOST YOU JOB AND WAS MADE TO GO BACK TO YOUR OLD FIRM WORKING FOR £65.50(thats your dole money) FOR 30 HOURS WOULD YOU LIKE THAT ??????????

onthemap Posted on 17/02/2012 18:57
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Icarus
The Conservative/Liberal Democrat coalition is the present Government of the United Kingdom. Watch the news from time to time instead of X Factor.

Also to the other clown above, when did I say I agreed with working for below minimum wage?

GillZean Posted on 17/02/2012 19:03
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

zelig,

'Indefensible' by your definition, brother.[;)]Who knows, maybe they are trying to be inclusive by getting everyone to put something back into society?

Keep on with the mantras.[rle]

icarus1965 Posted on 17/02/2012 19:05
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

"mappy"

i know it,s a coalition government..
the TORIES are running the show though...
lib dems won,t rock the boat as this is the only chance power the party will get..as
next election

lib dems erased...


a party without a mandate and unelected as well....
if the facists had mentioned what they were going to do millions of votes would have been lost..

debate at hand...though
people should not have to work 30 hours of £65.50...

do you mappy ????

how many hours do you work for that ?
if your job a tax funded job in the public sector ?.

joseph99 Posted on 17/02/2012 19:06
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Guardian outraged by government idea to counter dependency culture.

GillZean Posted on 17/02/2012 19:07
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work


Guardian-readers outraged by government idea to counter dependency culture.

oooooo Posted on 17/02/2012 19:09
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Clown? You said they were being paid, they aren't. Get your red nose on, d1ckhead.

onthemap Posted on 17/02/2012 19:11
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Icarus, seriously, no matter what your personal grief or opinion it's a Tory/Lib Coalition Government, honest it's in the papers and everything.

Now you've asked me a question and I'll answer it honestly even though you'll go off on one.

Yes, I'd gladly work for 30 hours in order to receive benefits. Funnily enough I'd prefer that to sitting on my ar##.

Strange but true, in fact I do voluntary work now, for nothing, not a penny.

GillZean Posted on 17/02/2012 19:12
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Zelig,

Can you kindly stop editing all your posts, it would make them a lot easier to respond to.

Thanks[^]

intheplasma Posted on 17/02/2012 19:12
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

MPs expect the sick to work because they work and every fcucking one of them is sick.

Zelig Posted on 17/02/2012 19:17
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Your plan makes no sense & you still haven't answered my question gillzean "And if they refuse to work for slave wages what then, gas chambers?"

Treating the unemployed & the sick worse than prisoners seems pretty indefensible to me. Break the law & get fed & housed. Don't break the law but refuse to stack shelves in tesco for slave wages & starve & lose your home. Good plan. Maybe we should make being unemployed or sick a criminal offence.

GillZean Posted on 17/02/2012 19:22
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Sorry, that was one of your edited posts. I didn't think you were moronic enough to suggest that seriously.

So you think people should be dependant on benefits and never return to work? And you wonder why there is an underclass? Honestly?

joseph99 Posted on 17/02/2012 19:25
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Like it or not we live in a society that leans in a liberal left direction, even with the current regime, where any draconian bill would not stand a hope in hell of being passed.

Zelig Posted on 17/02/2012 19:25
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

In the case of cancer patients Tesco's new slogan could be 'work in our shop until you drop'.

Are you saying cancer patients & the mentally ill are the underclass? Making people work for slave wages won't get rid of the underclass. All it will do is undermine the minimum wage, put the people who are currently doing these jobs out of work, replaced by people who have no choice but to work there. Overall wages will drop when employers know their staff can either work for them for low wages or be forced to work for even worse pay once they're unemployed.

onthemap Posted on 17/02/2012 19:30
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Zelig
Where are these slave wages you talk of, if you add up the total amount paid out in benefits to someone who has been unemployed for years and divide that by the hours they have been asked to work, you'll find it's far far more than any slave wage.

Or do you think you sign on one day and start work the next?

How long do the long term unemployed actually have to work for?

The calculation is TOTAL benefits received divided by hours forced to work.

Come back with the figures, then ask all of these questions.

icarus1965 Posted on 17/02/2012 19:32
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

i think it,s illegal..

it will cause more unemployment..

to be honest the tories haven,t a clue to run the country..labour were bad, tories even worse...

red_shamrock Posted on 17/02/2012 19:35
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Would imagine a lot of disable people graft,they are no different to you or I most must do desk jobs.. buyers Telesales salespeople traders Clerks etc.

Severely disabled people and cancer patients how can they work?


Zelig Posted on 17/02/2012 19:37
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

This thread is about sick people not the long term unemployed otm. A professional may have paid 30 years of tax & NI before being diagnosed with cancer. Why pay tax & NI if the state isn't going to provide for you when you're I'll?

GillZean Posted on 17/02/2012 19:40
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

I would imagine most people want to work.

Generally zelig, if you are in work you feel more self-worth. If you sit on your arse all day claiming benefits you will never amount to anything and breed kids with the same attitude. This may not fit neatly into your world view, but is nonetheless fairly accurate.


oooooo Posted on 17/02/2012 19:42
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

onthemap probably thinks when kids get their first job they should start with a negative balance to pay off for their education and healthcare from the preceding years.

Claiming that you should consider previous benefits payments as part-payment for a work placement retrospectively has to be up there as one of the most brain-dead ideas ever expressed on this site.

onthemap Posted on 17/02/2012 19:43
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

No Zelig, you compared the scheme to slave wages, Icarus asked specifically about the very same thing.

Your problem, like every left wing lunatic is that you're trying to blur the argument.

Anyone in their right mind would oppose the genuinely sick with being conned into work, but don't mix that up with getting the workshy to do something for their benefits.

Whether Tesco are abusing this is another matter, but why would anyone who's received a minimum of 6 months benefits(lets forget those who've claimed for years) object to 4 weeks work at 30 hours per week?

red_shamrock Posted on 17/02/2012 19:43
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

I cant imagine them making a cancer patient receiving treatment being made to work, and when they are recuperating I bet they are glad to see work again.
Everyone must be glad to be of some use, but Im sorry I don't agree with people working for nothing, if Tesco employ them they must pay the full whack..housing, rates, stamp, and whatever else the claimants get.
Tesco can afford it.

GillZean Posted on 17/02/2012 19:44
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

oooooo,

Didn't Blair bring that first idea in when they brought in tuition fees?

onthemap Posted on 17/02/2012 19:47
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Gilzean

You can't say things like that, it's totally different, completely silly argument, even though its the exact same thing.[^]

Zelig Posted on 17/02/2012 19:56
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

I am not against anyone working. It does help to create self worth & it is better than sitting at home or in the pub all day. What I object to is people not being paid a fair wage for this work. Like it or not otm this thread is about the sick being forced to work for their benefits & that does include cancer patients who are receiving treatment. If you disagree with this then say so but don't act like this directive is aimed at the long term unemployed unless the government think the long term unemployed have found a way to give themselves cancer just to get out of finding work.

As for the long term unemployed. The decision to abandon full employment in favour of a capitalist system was a terrible one but the blame for this lays with the people at the top of society not with the people at the bottom. Gilzean Blair was a right winger just like you.

GillZean Posted on 17/02/2012 19:59
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

When did we abandon full employment in favour of capitalism? Is that a Cameron initiative?

GillZean Posted on 17/02/2012 20:02
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

There you go, editing your posts again[:(!]

Am I right wing if I believe education should be free for everyone and private schools should be abolished? Or I suppose it could make me a Nazi...[?]

Zelig Posted on 17/02/2012 20:06
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

No it was a people at the top of society decision. The people at the bottom who have been left to rot for generations certainly didn't have any say in that decision.

GillZean Posted on 17/02/2012 20:12
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

So when was it?

Maybe initiatives like this can provide the impetus to save such people?

joseph99 Posted on 17/02/2012 20:12
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

The level of cheap sensationalism in this article, clearly designed to make the pony-tails in the Student Union bars stand firmly erect, makes the Mail's attempts to annoy its most hardened followers journalistic masterpieces.

onthemap Posted on 17/02/2012 20:15
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Ah so it's me muddleing the arguments up,now that you've been shot down - you asked the questions about slave labour - in fact you're still banging on about a fair wage for someone doing this work.

1 I disagree with the sick being forced to work in any capacity I S T H A T C L E A R ?

2 Heres the calculation for the 'fair wage' argument

1 years benfit approx 250.000 per month (lets just stick to the minimum and take only 1 year despite the average being many times higher) T 3k

Divide by 120 hours = 25.00 an hour.

Slave labour?

Zelig Posted on 17/02/2012 20:23
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Joseph I'm glad you think this proposal is so outrageous that it couldn't possibly be true. In political circles this directive is called flying a kite & is aimed at gauging the public's opinion on it. Unfortunately some people think it's a good idea.

Gilzean again unless the government think the long term unemployed have found a way to give themselves cancer this directive will not affect them in any way.

Otm if there's work to be done pay at least the minimum wage. Otherwise firms like tesco will simply lay off staff & replace them with the unemployed. Pay negotiations will be much easier for employers when they know their staff have no safety net to fall back on & will accept any wage they are offered.

joseph99 Posted on 17/02/2012 20:32
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

I detest the growing dependency culture that is a malignant tumor on our society and support its removal. No one wants to see those in need of help suffer. The army of malingerers need to be targeted, somehow.

Zelig Posted on 17/02/2012 20:35
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Ah somehow now why didn't I think of that. Glad you've solved it for us Joseph.

"army of malingerers" I guess you're another one who thinks you know how to diagnose illness better than medical professionals.

onthemap Posted on 17/02/2012 20:42
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Zelig

Your argument seems to be:

Shortly we are going to sack the nations workforce then drag cancer patients out of their beds and force them to work unlimited hours for their benefits, until they drop down dead, at which point we'll raid the hospitals to find more, maybe some AIDS victims?

What are we going to do with those newly unemployed? the ones sacked to make way for the dying? Do you think we'll find cheap work for them too, maybe we'll sack a few others...........

Are you really arguing this?

GillZean Posted on 17/02/2012 20:44
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

"Gilzean again unless the government think the long term unemployed have found a way to give themselves cancer this directive will not affect them in any way."

And you're SURE you've completely understood it, are you?[|)]

Medical professionals 'may' feel pressured by certain people to sign them off- just a thought... How would you sort out the 'army of malingerers, Zelig?

joseph99 Posted on 17/02/2012 20:45
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Luckily extreme left or right approaches will not prevail. Age does tend to gravitate you towards a middle lane. Wait and see eh.

GillZean Posted on 17/02/2012 20:45
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

mappy[:D][:D][:D]

red_shamrock Posted on 17/02/2012 20:46
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Give him a break Mappy,perhaps the newspapers wound him up.
Its work shy winos who will get it, but can you imagine people grafting with them, I cant.

icarus1965 Posted on 17/02/2012 20:50
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

mappy
£65.50 divided by 39 = £1.67

mappy how much a hour do you get ?
is it a public sector job ?

onthemap Posted on 17/02/2012 20:54
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Shamrock, I can see people objecting to working with the real malingerers, I don't think there's much can be done for some who just think it's their God given right to sit on a couch for the rest of their life eating doritos and watching Cash in the Attic.

But being honest, why are the same people who say they never get a sniff of an interview objecting to this? Surely it gets them back into the work environment, and maybe, just maybe, one or two will find work?

And how else do we tackle the issue of long term unemployment?

onthemap Posted on 17/02/2012 20:59
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

mappy
£65.50 divided by 39 = £1.67 Is this a statement, do you want me to check it?

I don't see what you're calculating, some of the long term unemployed have had benefits for over a decade and are now being asked to do 30 hours per week for 4 weeks - get your calculator out.

mappy how much a hour do you get ? Nothing, I pay myself whatever I earn, self employed, always have been.
is it a public sector job ? No

Now what was the point you were trying to make?

Zelig Posted on 17/02/2012 21:04
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Say what you will but it will adversely affect workers. companies will exploit the unemployed labour market & in the case of this thread the sick. It will undermine the minimum wage & affect wages.

In the case of having prisoners do outside work Firms will lose contracts to chain gang labour the evidence for this is already there in America.

In the case of making the unemployed work for benefits Petty crime will increase as the very people you want to target choose to get their money from other sources. If caught at least they are guaranteed food & shelter in prison. before supporting these punitive measures prepare for & come up with a way to deal with the consequences of them.

OPEO Posted on 17/02/2012 21:10
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

This IDEA won't save people who are terminally ill and forced to work. I hate the upper crust tory boys with all my heart.

onthemap Posted on 17/02/2012 21:17
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Christ, I was joking but you really believe all this nonsense.

We're heading for massive amounts of the dying clogging up the coke ovens.

Zelig Posted on 17/02/2012 21:22
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

There are flaws in the system & there are people who are exploiting it but it is the price you pay for living in a civilised society under the rule of law.

No you've already said you wouldn't support the sick being forced to work & I believe you otm.

HotshotMFC Posted on 17/02/2012 21:26
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

But you love Labour OPEO who are the people responsible for it all kicking off.[}:)]

Zelig Posted on 17/02/2012 21:33
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Greedy capitalists.

joseph99 Posted on 17/02/2012 21:35
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Will there be enough room in the Tesco shopping aisles with all those terminally ill bedridden malingerers horizontally stretched out with their drips and oxygen supply being ably pushed by a fully paid nurse whilst being trained how to fully stock the shelves by a dutiful trainer. Even if extreme right wing politicians wanted this, the evil CEO at Tesco would not. He wants his place full of productive workers and his aisles full of shoppers.

Red_Matter Posted on 17/02/2012 21:42
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

"Will there be enough room in the Tesco shopping aisles with all those terminally ill bedridden malingerers horizontally stretched out with their drips and oxygen supply being ably pushed by a fully paid nurse whilst being trained how to fully stock the shelves by a dutiful trainer."

Ha ha! [:D]

What if they dribbled over the baked beans too?

GillZean Posted on 17/02/2012 21:48
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

A DWP presentation on the proposal reads: "This is a supportive measure and claimants will only be asked to do this where it is suitable in their personal circumstances."

Oh crikey, there is actually some truth in the article[:O]

Zelig Posted on 17/02/2012 21:55
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Looks like you've finally found a politician you can vote for Gilzean. The last one shot himself in a bunker didn't he? [:P]

Dibzzz Posted on 17/02/2012 22:01
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

You couldn't hit a softer target though could you?

How about clamping down on these multi millionaire tax dodgers?

Zelig Posted on 17/02/2012 22:08
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Oh no that's far too difficult. And besides one day they hope to be multi-millionaire tax dodgers themselves remember.

GillZean Posted on 17/02/2012 22:14
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Epic craic, Zelig[|)]

Yours has just put one of his son's in charge, hasn't he?

Zelig Posted on 17/02/2012 22:41
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

I don't think he was ever accused of being a leftie.

icarus1965 Posted on 17/02/2012 22:57
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

£65.50 is what a single person gets on the dole,(did you know that ?) 39 is the free hours expected to work, thats for 6 months not 4 weeks..

now as your self employed..I bet you,ll be clammering for some free labour thats why you don,t mind it...

MickyG1178 Posted on 17/02/2012 23:34
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Make lottery winners do unpaid work!

GillZean Posted on 17/02/2012 23:38
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Kim Jong Ill? Maybe we could get him stacking shelves then?

onthemap Posted on 17/02/2012 23:56
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

"now as your self employed..I bet you,ll be clammering for some free labour thats why you don,t mind it..."

Yes, because the exact same thing applies here in South America [rle]

Oh and it's 'you're'

joseph99 Posted on 18/02/2012 08:07
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

No wonder we have misguided political groups in this country when journalists from the likes of the Daily Mail and Guardian with their clear agendas are allowed to print s hit like this to wind up its gullible readers.

r00fie Posted on 18/02/2012 08:18
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Its not about "gulible" readers.Its happening now whilst we blow away trillions on nuclear weapons of mass destruction...............££££££

rat_face Posted on 18/02/2012 09:16
Sick and disabled face unlimited unpaid work

Jesus f*cking wept