|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 13:50|
Our lass needs a new internal door hanging due to her left foot upsetting the old one. She broke it and I'm tasked with getting a sensible quote the door is 34 quid so I'm not gonna pay 50 quid in labour
Or rather she aint
|PinkPonce Posted on 02/02/2012 13:56|
If you're not willing to pay £50 for someone to spend a couple of hours coming to you, hanging the door and then going home then you're gonna have to hang the phucker yourself you tight fisted arsehole ...
The price of the door is irrelevant in the cost of the installation ... If you'd paid £200 for the door would you pay me £100 to come and fit it? Or would you expect my rates to be exactly the same as the cost for fitting the £34 door?
PP ... x
|anthonywalker Posted on 02/02/2012 13:59|
call me 07985442127
|mattyk50 Posted on 02/02/2012 14:00|
|Lee_Miller_Fan_Club Posted on 02/02/2012 14:01|
He's got a point...
|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 14:19|
Come on anth give me a price lets see how competitive you are in this double dip
Involves collecting new one from b an q
Taking old one off and hanging it upstairs door is wood grain effect 6 pannelled
|mattyk50 Posted on 02/02/2012 14:27|
easily 2-3 hours work if you want them picking the new one up for you as well
how can you expect a tradesman running their own business to work for less than £15 an hour??
|swordtrombonefish Posted on 02/02/2012 14:29|
"how can you expect a tradesman running their own business to work for less than £15 an hour??"
He's not, he's expecting Anth
|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 14:31|
Your missing my point it's in relation to value nothing to being tight fisted.
1. It's not going to take 2 hours and if it does then you should be thinking of putting your tools on eBay.
|PinkPonce Posted on 02/02/2012 14:31|
If you want him to pick the door up as well, then I'll give you a quote on Anthonys behalf - He's allowed me to do it ...
£120 including the cost of the door if he's paying when collecting ...
£80 if you've already paid for it and he's simply collecting and hanging ...
You tight chunt ...
PP ... x
|mattyk50 Posted on 02/02/2012 14:32|
say he lives 15 mins away... theres half an hour journey time
45 mins driving to and from b&q to pick up door
hour to fit properly
also, if "your lass" isnt prepared to pay £50 to have a new door fitted, she shouldnt go around kicking the $hit out of her own house in the first place
|Lee_Miller_Fan_Club Posted on 02/02/2012 14:33|
collect the new door too!
haha - george fcuk off, you are a nuisance hombre.
|PinkPonce Posted on 02/02/2012 14:34|
But it is going to take 2 hours ... It'll likely take around 3 hours out of his day ...
He is going to collect the door, he has to load it in his van, he is then coming to yours, he has to unload it, he has to hang in, he has to then leave ...
It's not as if he has a days work in your house, so he'd charge say £150 a day, he will fit you in around other people when he has a spare 2 to 3 hours ...
You should be ashamed of yourself ...
Stick to selling knocky off omega seamasters!
PP ... x
|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 14:36|
Where's the yell.com
2-3 hours to hang a door mmmmmmm
Think someone's having my eyes out
10 min to pick it up on way over sure that's on the way over for some one.
Remove old one and fittings would take me 5 min using a knife never mind elect drill
Is that break time and 6 cuppas meaning 2-3 hours
|anthonywalker Posted on 02/02/2012 14:38|
were do live george?
|mattyk50 Posted on 02/02/2012 14:38|
"Remove old one and fittings would take me 5 min using a knife"
just XXXXXXing do it then
|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 14:39|
Ponce this thread is one you should be familiar with - tool
|anthonywalker Posted on 02/02/2012 14:39|
im on yell george look at me photos of work
|swordtrombonefish Posted on 02/02/2012 14:39|
Don't those expensive watches come with a toolkit?
|PinkPonce Posted on 02/02/2012 14:39|
10 minutes to pick it up? Are you for real?
If it's gonna take you 5 minutes with the phucking kitchen knife then phucking use the kitchen knife ...
How long would it take you to drive to B&Q, pick it up and drive back home? 10 minutes?
If so, when did you start living in the bedroom department at Dunelm?
PP ... x
|sasboro1 Posted on 02/02/2012 14:40|
i'll do it for £10
|Lee_Miller_Fan_Club Posted on 02/02/2012 14:40|
george if you are so sure its a quick job, do it yourself you lazy b4stard.
|Claudio Posted on 02/02/2012 14:40|
george mate, if its so easy and takes less than half an hour, why don't you do it yourself?
|mattyk50 Posted on 02/02/2012 14:41|
"when did you start living in the bedroom department at Dunelm"
|Lee_Miller_Fan_Club Posted on 02/02/2012 14:42|
|anthonywalker Posted on 02/02/2012 14:42|
99% of doors fall into place then you get a chunt thats takes a while with shvt frames bowed and not level
|PinkPonce Posted on 02/02/2012 14:42|
Anthony, I know you need the work but get a fair price mate ...
Don't let this chunt rip you off ...
PP ... x
|Claudio Posted on 02/02/2012 14:43|
|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 14:43|
Anth you were over the other weeks pricing job up
Flooring and fence
My misses mum died suddenly and she lives 350 mile away. That's how door took the brunt of it
Grief and how we deal with it
So daughters door needs replacing me. I'd put a poster over it
I understand people need to earn a living and I ain't knocking that I wouldn't expect anybody to drive for half an hour and work for an hour for xxxx amount .
But if needs must and you have overheads it all depends on circumstances.
|anthonywalker Posted on 02/02/2012 14:45|
ok mate wondered why you havent replied to me
|PinkPonce Posted on 02/02/2012 14:46|
George, I'm sorry about your loss, but please don't try and exploit someone who's trying to make a living ...
It's going to cost any tradesmen a minimum of 2 hours of their time. You should be paying them for it, and if you don't want to then you appear to be able to do such an easy job yourself with a knife ...
PP ... x
|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 14:47|
I would if was able I'm off work with severe whiplash not due to a Rita.
But by being hit in the neck by a sun parasol
All I will say is flo rider and that advert was the resort
|anthonywalker Posted on 02/02/2012 14:48|
how come you didnt ring me direct mate after i give you quote floor/fence
|PinkPonce Posted on 02/02/2012 14:48|
Shame it didn't hit you a couple of inches higher on your noggin; you'd have probably got away unharmed ...
PP ... x
|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 14:48|
It ain't going to take 2 hours that was my point
|anthonywalker Posted on 02/02/2012 14:49|
|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 14:49|
Other things to worry about anth
|PinkPonce Posted on 02/02/2012 14:52|
FFS! It IS going to take 2 hours because they have to go and pick the door up. Granted they might only be in your house for 1 hour, but their price needs to reflect that ...
You mentioned value earlier but you clearly don't understand the concept of value and you're confusing it with 'Cost' ...
If you paid me £20 because it would take me 1 hour physically hanging the door properly in your house - So that's 1 hour at 9am and a cup of tea in your house yet I actually set off from my house at 8am went to B&Q, got the door, carted it to my van, drove to yours and got there at 9am hung the door, left at 10am and got straight home at 10:30 - Does that £20 payment represent value for me?
PP ... x
|PinkPonce Posted on 02/02/2012 14:55|
And one more thing:
Most tradesmen would probably charge you abvout £75-£100 for just fitting it based on the fact that they'd class it as half a days work, despite it only taking them say 3 hours door to door ...
Get Anth to do it when he does all your floor, and his price will be less than as a one off, simply because he'll be there at the same time so can price it into his overall cost ... Thus representing more value for both of you ...
PP ... x
|anthonywalker Posted on 02/02/2012 14:57|
very valid point ponce thats why its hard getting work people allways say thats to much but would any of the go to work if its not worth it i think people dont understand that its diesel for kickoff if you have a lad working with you and also the taxmans share
|PinkPonce Posted on 02/02/2012 14:59|
Of course, I understand Anthony. Half the time it's not worth your while going somewhere for a small job that's gonna take you a couple of hours because it'll end up costing you ...
Hope everything works out for you anyway mate, and sure you'll pick some decent work up soon, from somebody willing to pay your worth
PP ... x
|sasboro1 Posted on 02/02/2012 15:00|
anthonywalker, just say you will fit the door in return for a omega watch
|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 15:02|
Ponce just trying to get my head around what your saying
Because your saying you want me to pay a premium to travel to ingleby to Stockton Jesus I thought you paid a factor for fuel
We are just going around the houses and have a difference of opinion
My thoughts were lad no work and declining income small job and some income got to be better than no income at all
Bit like the ground half empty will not lower costs of its product so no more income
|sasboro1 Posted on 02/02/2012 15:04|
are you that tight george? pay the going rate if you want the job done properly.
|EpiphanyProudfoot Posted on 02/02/2012 15:05|
'call me 07985442127'
Anthony's favourite punk band in the 70s was 'Spam 69'
|EpiphanyProudfoot Posted on 02/02/2012 15:06|
Anthony's favourite song by Dire Straits was 'Sultans of Spam'
|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 15:08|
Understand your position anth you know we're I am if you need a few quid and I wasn't expecting to pay a tenner like ponce was implying.
But at times like these lots of little jobs keeps people afloat
Will be in touch when we ain't up and down to Wales with the bereavement
Will just get a local lad in to hang door
|EpiphanyProudfoot Posted on 02/02/2012 15:09|
Anthony's favourite holiday destination is the Isle of Spam.
|mattyk50 Posted on 02/02/2012 15:10|
boy, that escalated quickly
|leroy Posted on 02/02/2012 15:12|
pinkponce attitude is why so many lads are going out of business.
Theres a recession on, the lad is entitled to seek a good price.
My tip would be to ask someone in B&Q, there all handy lads and if you ask them to would be grateful of the extra 50 quid for a fairly easy job
|PinkPonce Posted on 02/02/2012 15:13|
George, I'm not saying you have to pay 'a premium' I'm saying you have to pay going rate ...
You're not paying his fuel or anything like that, you're simply paying for his time ...
You want him to pick it up from B&Q for you, but you don't expect to pay for that because you think it's only 10 minuites for him ...
If you don't like the price, then unfortunately Anthony doesn't win the work, and you'll either end up doing it yourself and saving £75, or eventually make Anthony accept a pittance to do it ...
Your intention on this thread was to immediately discount what you consider to be 'going rate' because you know it will cost someone a minimum of £50 to do that job ...
If you give Anthony the flooring job, I'd hazard a guess that he'll offer a gesture of goodwill and say that he'll hang the door at cost - £25 say, because he'll be doing more work for you ...
So, as Anthonys representative, please take the quote he gave you for the other work, add £25 and he'll do your door, including collecting it ...
If you want him to pay for the door as well when he collects it, please add an additional £40.80 on (Inclusive of Overhead and Profit) meaning a supply and fit total of £65.80 ...
If you want to give him the job on it's own then it's £80 ...
PP ... x
|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 15:13|
One final question to the trades out there ?
What price would you charge to hang a internal door?
Labour rate only no time factor or fuel cost trying to see if it's a fair rate of pair.
Or rip of Britain
1st quote was £22 quid
|PinkPonce Posted on 02/02/2012 15:14|
Leroy - Absolutely incorrect - Your and Georges attitude is why people are going out of business; Expecting them to work for pennies ... The lads who'd do it for £50 in B&Q are too expensive for George, sadly ...
PP ... x
|Claudio Posted on 02/02/2012 15:15|
george you're missing the fundamental point that the call out cost is the same regardless of how long he is there for.
it would be more cost effective for you if the joiner had enough work for a whole day. the fact you can only offer him a 30 minute job means that the callout is disproportionately larger than the actual amount you spend on the work.
|PinkPonce Posted on 02/02/2012 15:16|
So you've now miraculously got a quote for £22 to hang the door - And you're on here bartering for a cheaper rate ...
FFS ... You couldn't mak - Hang on, he has!
PP ... x
|EpiphanyProudfoot Posted on 02/02/2012 15:16|
PP is right btw
|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 15:19|
Well door is £32.89
Our lass says and she saves 25% if she buys on a we'd with some kinda discount card goes over in mates people carrier and she pays and brings it home.
I take the door off and the fittings
So what's the true labour cost
Are we saying its 30 quid if I stay 1 hour or 5
Or 8 quid an hour
|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 15:20|
No quote was like 5 min ago
|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 15:22|
Was 12 min and 32 s ago
|PinkPonce Posted on 02/02/2012 15:23|
If you picked the door up, paid for it, took it home, removed the other door, and purely wanted me (if I was a Joiner) or Anthony (Whom I'm representing on this thread) to turn up at your house with my tools, and simply hang that door onto an already primed frame, I'd charge you £40 ... If you wanted me to pick it up and come to you, it'd be £80 ...
You're paying for the time involved in each scenario - You're not necessarily paying an hourly rate as such, more a guy has a day rate, and if he is doing a full day at yours, then these nominal individual tasks are cheaper, than if doing them as a one off.
Sadly, I don't think myself or Anthony Walker Services will be able to match your lowest price of £22 to hang it though - So well done on getting such a low price. Although please be wary when he tells you that the £22 is an actual hourly rate, and he has to go across to B&Q again because your philangies are the correct type to hang the door. Anthony's £50 job has just cost you £88 quid ...
PP ... x
|bobs_cock Posted on 02/02/2012 15:25|
If you can take the XXXXXXer off yourself why can t you put it back on?
The time youve been XXXXXXing and moaning about it on here you could have done it you biff!
|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 15:26|
Im not even paying its the other half.
I was just trying to obtain value for her at a horrific time
And doors sharp now and my boy doesn't want his sausages cut on it
|PinkPonce Posted on 02/02/2012 15:28|
I can send Anthony around later today, to fit it for £50, presuming you've got the right size door on order etc - as long as your lass has gone to collect it?
If you want him to go and collect it and pay for it, we'll do you a deal at £120 including the cost of the door at £30 odd quid?
Upto you mate?
PP ... x
|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 15:29|
Bob did your eyes miss the point I have sever whiplash on sick for 4 months filling the dishwasher and taking 16 screws off a door is about all I could do right now.
|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 15:34|
PP thanks for the offer but if it took the lad an hour and took 30 notes.
A trades would say its 10 mins too long that's including a cuppa an a look on an iPhone to post on here
And let's then work on the basis of 6 quid in diesel to come here and that pays fuel for his next job.
It's cash in hand taxmans never gonna know its 24 quid an hourly rate that's if it took an hour
|PinkPonce Posted on 02/02/2012 15:38|
I'll have to wait for Anthony to come back on here as I can't agree to a job that's going to cost him money - But if he wants to do it for £30 then so be it ...
Please don't suggest for one minute that AW Services do 'Cash in hand' either
PP ... x
|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 15:39|
Just had a look about online some guy in south east was quoted 25 a door reduced to 20 as wanted 9 doing
Mmmmmm and best price here is 50
Can see why it's quiet
|bobs_cock Posted on 02/02/2012 15:39|
so if you can take the screws off get someone to give you a hand to take the thing down and putting it back on and then tighten the screws
or alternatively stop whinging about spending 50 quid
|dungas_fishermans_jumper Posted on 02/02/2012 15:41|
What a greedy fukcer. I'm in the trade (plasterer), and know plenty of joiners and they will all say the same thing. First door 50 quid and every subsequent door after that they will do for between 20-30. How much would b and q charge to deliver the door ? 20 quid ? And you want him to pick it up and drop off, and hang for less than 50 ? How the fcuk to you know how long it will take ?
Anthony don't cheapen the trade and I presume you didn't spend all that time and money learning your skills to work for minimum wage. Tell him to pi$$ off and tell him to shove his fence up his arse as well.
|PinkPonce Posted on 02/02/2012 15:43|
'Just had a look about online some guy in south east was quoted 25 a door reduced to 20 as wanted 9 doing'
Is that not what I said earlier? He got a discount because he had a lot more work - 9 doors at £20 is £180 - so pretty much a days pay - Doesn't have to worry about filling the other hours of the day ...
You're expecting someone to go and collect a door from B&Q for you, but not willing to pay for it - You only want to pay for the time they actually spend in your house ...
As I said, wait until Anthony see's the message ...
Alternatively, get the bloke from down south to come up and do it
PP ... x
|PinkPonce Posted on 02/02/2012 15:44|
dfj - I'm not in the trade and I echo every word you've said ...
PP ... x
|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 15:45|
So we are now establishing the true cost is 20 - 30
|bobs_cock Posted on 02/02/2012 15:46|
Your a proper idiot George, you really are.
|mattyk50 Posted on 02/02/2012 15:48|
head... wall... BANG
|PinkPonce Posted on 02/02/2012 15:49|
The true cost IF you had 10 doors to hang would be £30 per door!
But you haven't, you've got 1, and it would cost a tradesmen money to come and do that job for £30!
If you have 5 doors you want hanging, but you want 1 done on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday & Friday then I'll charge you £50 each day for 1 door, and be round at 8am - So £250 ...
If you want me to do all 5 on Monday, I'll charge you £150 ...
PP ... x
|anthonywalker Posted on 02/02/2012 16:05|
£45-£50 for one door to make it worth while
if at the address
|PinkPonce Posted on 02/02/2012 16:07|
Don't forget to build my commission in Anthony as business development manager
PP ... x
|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 17:18|
I have never offered anybody the work just asked about the cost and at last we have a true cost of 45 to 50
|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 17:22|
Think our lass needs to get the blu tac out and some JLS posters on the door
|inoffthepost Posted on 02/02/2012 18:01|
£40 first door £15 for each extra door required.Gis a shout and i will give you there number.
|anthonywalker Posted on 02/02/2012 18:04|
fvck sake allawys one
|Scudo Posted on 02/02/2012 18:20|
This thread started over 4 hours ago, you could have had the door fitted and undercoated by now !
|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 18:26|
Cheers inn off
|offside-again Posted on 02/02/2012 18:57|
All this over a f ucking door.
|inoffthepost Posted on 02/02/2012 18:58|
george 6 panel grained door £25.00 howdens.
|anthonywalker Posted on 02/02/2012 19:23|
Bad that inn off
|inoffthepost Posted on 02/02/2012 19:25|
Whats that anth?
|anthonywalker Posted on 02/02/2012 19:30|
Im trying to get some work together as got fvck all u under cut?
|bobs_cock Posted on 02/02/2012 19:38|
Id sack your Business Development Manager Anthony.
|inoffthepost Posted on 02/02/2012 19:38|
The price i have posted is the going rate of the average joiner whom i speak with everyday.Undercut...is that not what you do every time you quote a price on hear..ask yourself 1 question anthony why are you not busy.?Or do you want me to answer that for you.
|MFC_Riverside Posted on 02/02/2012 19:40|
To be fair, the price inoff posted doesn't include picking it up and then fitting.
And Anth, he can undercutt you all he wants, it's called business.
|swordtrombonefish Posted on 02/02/2012 19:41|
More Hyper thicko son
|anthonywalker Posted on 02/02/2012 19:51|
Pease tell me innoff I'd like to no
|inoffthepost Posted on 02/02/2012 19:53|
No you wouldnt.
|anthonywalker Posted on 02/02/2012 19:54|
This should be good please tell
|inoffthepost Posted on 02/02/2012 19:57|
Not on here...But the clever people on here are able to view all your previous posts.Ithink anthony they have made up there own minds.
|anthonywalker Posted on 02/02/2012 20:00|
I have many happy customers off here
|inoffthepost Posted on 02/02/2012 20:05|
You probably have i dont doubt.
|Scudo Posted on 02/02/2012 20:06|
The business is slow at the moment Anthony, seems this year has started slower than normal. The merchants are quiet as well, not just you mate, we are all a bit quiet. Chin up Anth!
|scally Posted on 02/02/2012 20:06|
A £25 door will be crap
|captain5 Posted on 02/02/2012 20:07|
Sounds like George's missus is in charge here.
I'm guessing it's not only bedroom doors he has had kicked in.
|Joe_Laidlaw Posted on 02/02/2012 20:17|
George - I have just gone through this post and are one greedy get.
If I got the kids from school to fit it for you (not tradesmen), I would charge you at least £25 for it and that is because our money goes to buying tools and we do not have the overheads of fuel (school mini bus).
Anth at least needs to earn enough to make it worth while and you are taking the XXXXXX.
Read carefully what PP is saying and see if you can digest it - yeah greedy thick skinned git.
|The_GOAT Posted on 02/02/2012 20:30|
Are you a jack of all trades anth? I ask because I'm in the process if buying a house that needs work doing to it and I'm collating a contact list for as and when I can afford the various jobs that need doing to it.
|EpiphanyProudfoot Posted on 02/02/2012 20:34|
Anthony's favourite song by Haircut 100 was 'Spam-tastic Day'
|anthonywalker Posted on 02/02/2012 20:36|
ican turn my hand to most things also i no other lads in the trade
|The_GOAT Posted on 02/02/2012 20:38|
I think a plasterer is probably the main one missing from my arsenal.
|Scudo Posted on 02/02/2012 20:40|
Goat, are you Arsene Wenger?
|anthonywalker Posted on 02/02/2012 20:43|
goat i no a good lad great job to
|The_GOAT Posted on 02/02/2012 20:45|
Sound. We haven't completed the sale yet because some greedy XXXXXX Buy to Renter keeps pushing the price up, but when we do..
|anthonywalker Posted on 02/02/2012 20:50|
very gratefull mate
|PinkPonce Posted on 02/02/2012 21:13|
Hope things pick up for you Anthony - and if you need a hand preparing some profiles of work you've done I'll try and help you, F.O.C
PP ... x
|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 21:24|
Explain I'm greedy !
My wife got a call and within hours her mum is passed away at 50 and lives 350 hours away.
My wife booted the door in grief anger and damaged it
She said source a door white wood grain effect 6 panels to match the rest of the doors.
And obtain best price to get it fitted
Looked on B & Q seen door 30 odd quid
Asked for going rate on her
So faw inn off comes up trumps for door and it fitted
Well done thank you
I'm looking at other work doing but postponed at the time due to the circumstances.
But wondering if inn off can be helpful
|inoffthepost Posted on 02/02/2012 21:27|
Ask away george.
|anthonywalker Posted on 02/02/2012 21:33|
white wood grain door are£16 fitted £56 all in
|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 21:33|
Needing a price for 60 sq m v groove laminate plus underlay concrete floor and side trim edging looking at oak colour
|anthonywalker Posted on 02/02/2012 21:34|
i gave you the price for that at trade price aswell
|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 21:36|
You did pal but just compare and contrasting the price
|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 21:38|
What were your fitting costs for that anth you quoted 1400 all in. But no breakdown of costs.
|inoffthepost Posted on 02/02/2012 21:38|
only supply to trade george.
|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 21:41|
Do you have a contact of a trade you could recommend to get door from howdens and fit
And quote me for other work I'm looking for please.
|anthonywalker Posted on 02/02/2012 21:45|
|anthonywalker Posted on 02/02/2012 21:46|
i can also do your last post
|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 21:48|
Cheers anth appreciate that our lass mate a flooring fitter quoted her 350 but guessing that was mates rate.
So your rates not a million miles away
|anthonywalker Posted on 02/02/2012 21:51|
why dont you snap his hand off then
|inoffthepost Posted on 02/02/2012 21:53|
Icould reccomend quite a few,but as you have already been quoted by somebody dont think it is fair for me to get involved.I only try to get the best deals for fellow board members,there are quite a lot of people on this board who would tell you that.My advice to you is always get as many quotes as possible and the cheapest is not always the best option.
|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 21:54|
As my wife doesn't want upheaval yet and got to lay her mam to rest in 10 days
|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 22:00|
Looks like will have to get her indoors to sort it, never imagined a simple question would get a ton up.
And to be accused of being tight, greedy etc
Mmmmm got to love it
|inoffthepost Posted on 02/02/2012 22:10|
were do you live george ?
|george1 Posted on 02/02/2012 22:14|
|EpiphanyProudfoot Posted on 02/02/2012 22:32|
Anthony's second favourite team is West Spam United.
|hewielewie Posted on 03/02/2012 08:35|
Low Hartburn? I lived there for 25 years and didn't realise there was a low and high Hartburn