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Adi_Dem Posted on 12/01/2012 12:27
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Could be signed for the weekend.

Salary negotiations are now the key for us. No matter what anyone says, we are right at the point where we need to be in terms of salary and budget. I'd be amazed if Gibson were prepared to break that structure to sign him and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see departures as a result.


Link: Gazette

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 12/01/2012 12:28
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Anyone in mind?

Adi_Dem Posted on 12/01/2012 12:29
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No idea at all. Those most likely have to be Williams and Bates I think.

boroboymike Posted on 12/01/2012 12:29
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We can only hope Andy Thorn likes the look of Thomson.

free_pint Posted on 12/01/2012 12:29
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Great news.

I don't think we'll have to sell anyone. Gibson's quotes the other day were along the lines of we are all pushing for promotion now, there will be extra funds made available!

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 12/01/2012 12:30
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What about McManus?

the_dude_strikes_back Posted on 12/01/2012 12:30
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our squad is far too small to let people go


maybe players who are not playing, but no first teamers, what would be the point in that

then again, letting players go who don't play happens all the time anyway at every club

Adi_Dem Posted on 12/01/2012 12:31
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Absolutely hope I'm wrong. I said a few weeks ago that I'd be surprised if the club's stated position in the summer i.e. that we'd got to the point where we needed to be and that any further incoming signings would have to be funded by outgoing players changed because of league position.

Maybe it has. I'm not saying Mowbray doesn't deserve that backing but it does surprise me that financial decisions might be made on the back of 6 months of football.

Lee_Miller_Fan_Club Posted on 12/01/2012 12:34
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The only people i can see being allowed to leave (without silly money being offered for starting 11 players) are Kink, Grounds, Halliday maybe.

nor_mate Posted on 12/01/2012 12:35
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we need to hold on to almost everybody. The only player I wouldn't be arsed to see leave would be Kink, and maybe Grounds. I think everybody else will have a big role to play in the next couple of months.

Adi_Dem Posted on 12/01/2012 12:35
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I think that probably goes without saying but of course I can't see much interest in any of them!!

Steel-City_Smoggy Posted on 12/01/2012 12:36
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Use Kink as an exchange, just show Thorn the youtube video.

bill_door Posted on 12/01/2012 12:37
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"But that issue was resolved yesterday when the Championship strugglers signed Manchester City striker Alex Nimely on loan"

Cracking for us if it happens, awful for Coventry.[:D]

Adi_Dem Posted on 12/01/2012 12:38
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I agree Dude but in the summer it was clearly a case of balancing a finite resource so that if we needed a striker, for example, a defender might have to be sacrificed. I'm just saying that I'm surprised if that has changed in only 6 months.

Who knows, maybe the salary expectations of Jutkiewicz won't cause us too many problems.

festa5 Posted on 12/01/2012 12:43
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did we not have the money for him in pre season though? Seems to be Cov that pulled the plug (rather than us, having failed to sell Bates to Swansea)......?

nor_mate Posted on 12/01/2012 12:43
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Gibbo might just be willing to push the funds out a little further, a sign of respect to Mogga if you will, for what he's done and the opportunity he's given us.

jono_feds Posted on 12/01/2012 12:46
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Adi, Thankfully for us Gibson has come out and said that the plan for this season was mid table security with play-offs at best.

In six months what has changed is that we are sitting two points off the top behind West Ham who are almost dead certs and always were, and Southampton who are not picking up the points they were.

From a business point of view, now is the time to invest if funds are available. If it doesn't pay off and we are still in the division in May/June then we could look to offload more players then.

If we were mid table now I doubt we'd have the same kind of funds available as it appears that we do.

EDIT: Sorry, I meant to say that Gibson has now said the aim for this season has to be automatic promotion.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 12/01/2012 12:49
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kink will leave for a nominal fee and that'll be our first teamer.

like has already been said, gibson has said he is will to support the manager in strengthening the squad, that has never included the sale of first team players to fund other first team players, i am sure that is a question that would have popped up in an interview if there felt the need to ask it.

RenzoRosso Posted on 12/01/2012 12:50
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whtever happens will be considered rather than knee jerk, one of the benefits of a transfer window is that you have to think about what you want to do until jan sop hopefuilly we'll make the right call.

bill_door Posted on 12/01/2012 12:50
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He could also be thinking that if we go up, it's not a problem and if we don't go up, it's also not a problem because players are out of contract i.e. Hoyte.

If we don't go up and Hoyte leaves, I'd imagine our wage bill with Jutkiewicz will be lower than it is now.

nor_mate Posted on 12/01/2012 12:51
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this signing is also brilliant because it is not a panic/knee jerk type Jan signing. We've been after the lad before, presume we've constantly kept an eye on him throughout the season, still been very impressed with him and are therefore buying him. [^][^][^]

rob_fmttm Posted on 12/01/2012 13:00
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I disagree - don't think we well sell anyone. Will tell you what Mowbray has to say on the subject later.
But he has said time and again no way we will be selling Rhys Williams - for anything other than a massive massive fee. Which won't happen.

Bobby_Braithwaite Posted on 12/01/2012 13:04
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Goodbye Ronald MacDonald I'd guess.

markw_21 Posted on 12/01/2012 13:05
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It's strange that, before Christmas, I was made aware - by someone whose usually always spot on - that we would have to sell before buying and could only bring in frees/ loans otherwise!

Hopefully this is the turning point for MFC? Fingers crossed, he's the Striker we've been crying out for...

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 12/01/2012 13:07
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i think if we do sign him we might have to sell Matty Bates... oh and macdonald and emnes. [^]

gravyboat Posted on 12/01/2012 13:08
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Adi desperately hoping we have to sell someone so he's proved right [:D]

pierrequiroule Posted on 12/01/2012 13:08
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More 'spot on' than Mowbray who has been saying we no longer need to sell in order to buy? @markw

heaton_mersey_boro Posted on 12/01/2012 13:12
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Gibson stated that he expected a mid table season this year - unfortunately Mogga has gone an bolloxed this up by having us 2 points off the top. [:(]

This changes things in so much as investment (say £3-4m) may mean the difference between Championship footy or Premiership (££££££££kerrrrchiiingggggggggg) footy next season.

Buying a forward and selling other first team players makes no sense - unless a proper stupid bid comes in. Williams for £10m, Bates for £8m, Hoyte for £3.00 etc.

Get Jutkiewicz in, get a couple of loans in if possible and that should see us okay until the end of the season.

[^][^]

markw_21 Posted on 12/01/2012 13:12
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Yes, always spot on [^]

As stated, I was made aware before Christmas! Gibson may have reviewed his plans since then; the Balance Sheet must be looking favourable [;)]

TeeSv Posted on 12/01/2012 13:37
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be good IF it comes off

red_shamrock Posted on 12/01/2012 13:38
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"Hoyte for £3.00" [:D]

bobcarolges Posted on 12/01/2012 14:36
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WHEE IS HE LIKE?[8D]

Adi_Dem Posted on 12/01/2012 14:39
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Believe me gravy, I certainly don't want to be proven correct. To be honest it wouldn't prove me correct anyway. All I've ever said is that it would surprise me given the stated financial position of the club inthe summer. It would be a pleasant surprise though!

I like the look of this lad and he would be a different option up front and that can only be a good thing. If we are to buy without selling itcan only be because of the outstanding job Mowbray has done.

gravyboat Posted on 12/01/2012 14:39
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You're at it again, with your incomprehensible capital letters.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 12/01/2012 14:44
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i think someone mentioned that we didnt have to sell to buy anyone only a few days ago and your answer was - 'you're wrong' surprisingly enough! [^]

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 12/01/2012 14:52
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Perhaps the improved attendance figures have something to do with it. Gibbo didn't expect us to be this high up the table so his budget may have been based on a 14,000 average gate. We've only been below 15,000 once so far.

gravyboat Posted on 12/01/2012 14:55
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Only pulling yer plonker, Adi.

I haven't seen a single second of this lad, so can't comment on whether it's a good thing or a bad thing!

GaZBoro Posted on 12/01/2012 14:57
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gravyboat he's the new Van Basten! [;)]


Link: Cracking goal

Borotommo Posted on 12/01/2012 15:01
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I think there's an element of increased earning projections as well. Even slightly higher gates (2000 more) adds about £0.5M over the rest of the season, plus we should earn between £0.5M and £1.0M just from the Sunderland game(s) should we not? Might even be additional TV revenue there too?

Very sound financial management.

Adi_Dem Posted on 12/01/2012 15:01
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Raz I suggest that you re read the thread because, once again, you've got it all jumbled up in your mind. That's not what I was saying you got wrong. What I actually said, as I'm saying here, is that I'd be surprised if the position of the club in the summer, namely that to fund a major signing we would have to sell, had changed on the back of 6 months football. At least make an effort to understand in future.

Adi_Dem Posted on 12/01/2012 15:05
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Don't see it like that tommo. Funding a long term, significant contract with short term blips of income increase is not sound financial management to me.

Borotommo Posted on 12/01/2012 15:08
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Well weve just got £123,000 from the FA for the Sunlun game, plus the revenue from the gate(s) could easily be another £0.5M minimum. He'll have a decent re-sale value as well, and wages of something like £10K per week is no major gamble with (supposedly) higher earners at the end of contract in the summer

Adi_Dem Posted on 12/01/2012 15:11
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£10k a week no major gamble? Sorry but I can't agree. Those coming to the end of their contract need replacing and £10k a week is potentially a £2.5m commitment!

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 12/01/2012 15:14
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You have to think both long and short term in football, and this isn't a major signing. Gate receipts are up and it's not as if the tickets are only a couple of bob.

An increase of 3,000 on the gate would have brought in somewhere around a million so far, enough for over two years wages for the new bloke. Looking forwarsd to Hoyte's contract coming to a close there's an initial saving that is worth using to push on for a promotion place.


Razmond_HWDR Posted on 12/01/2012 15:15
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like i said at the time, mowbray thought that if our league position come jan was good he hoped gibson ( [^] ) would release extra funds.

you didnt say you'd be surprised if that happened, you said that was wrong.

Adi_Dem Posted on 12/01/2012 15:16
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That assumes we break even mr cat

Borotommo Posted on 12/01/2012 15:18
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The message I'm receiving from Gibson and Mowbray is that we are in the business of rebuilding the club and they playing staff with the long term in mind. This will involve the odd short term loans, some of which will be more or less successful than others, but that when long terms assets become available or need re-signing then those priorities will be actioned in line with the long term growth of the football club.
I would suggest the reason this guy didn't arrive in the summer was down to us not wanting to be cornered by either the player or the club, but also we knew he was someone we wanted for the longer term (is he 22 years old?).
I don't think, therefore, its a short term shuffle of money. I think it's part of the longer plan, however the recent upturn in income may well let us accelerate the deal by closing the price (perhaps an extra £100K in add-ons) or the wage (extra £2000 extra per goal etc).

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 12/01/2012 15:27
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Not necessarily Adi, Gibbo might feel the debt is manageable now. There's been some expensive deadwood shown the door in a well mannered way by Mogga.

Adi_Dem Posted on 12/01/2012 15:30
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I agree with most of that tommo and I certainly hope that's the position we are in. It's a great step forward because we certainly weren't in the same position in the summer.

Cat - I am not talking about debt I am talking about revenue.

JLinardi Posted on 12/01/2012 15:35
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I think it's just a considered gamble tbh, as has been said if we don't go up were likely to lose bates and hoyte who will be on an nice chunk of money and Williams is almost certain to leave. Those out goings will easily offset this deal and if we go up it will just end up a drop in the ocean. So I don't think we need to sell at all tbh.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 12/01/2012 15:59
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the clubs aims and ambitions have now changed since the summer.

Gibson himself has said that.

mid table aim turns into a promotion bid.

aytonboro Posted on 12/01/2012 16:08
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spot on jlinardi [^]

BoroMarkerPen Posted on 12/01/2012 16:10
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Some info from HP sauces. I can confirm that the transfer fee is 50p and a mars bar. His salary is to be 1.75 a fortnight.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 12/01/2012 16:12
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that HP sauces he knows e'feck all!

BoroMarkerPen Posted on 12/01/2012 16:18
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I don't know why I listen to him. For three months he was trying to convince everyone that the construction work at rockliffe was going to be a lake filled with bovril. Reckoned gibbo had told him it was to be europes premier drinkable meat based attraction.

fatharrywhite Posted on 12/01/2012 16:25
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The liklihood is that if we dont go up bates, williams and mcdonald to name 3 will be gone.

That will pay for the gamble that we are taking with this.

If we go up the PL cash pays for it, if we dont we have to sell players but we would have been anyway

Adi_Dem Posted on 12/01/2012 16:36
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Those players will still need replacing.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 12/01/2012 16:39
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thank god gibson has shown ambition again and put his hand in his pocket [^]

good lad

erimus74 Posted on 12/01/2012 16:42
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i think if we do sign him we might have to sell Matty Bates... oh and macdonald and emnes.

True to form Razmond_HWDR[^]


rob_fmttm Posted on 12/01/2012 16:51
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OK with a day's more knowledge and rumour my revised postion is maybe players will still come and go. But I really cannot see us being prepared to sell anyone but fringe players. We are definitely not going to sell Rhys or anyone integral to the first team.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 12/01/2012 16:55
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adi has seen all the accounts so he knows that if we sign a 'major' player a first team player must leave.

rob dont try and fool us with your sily bollox please.

woodymfc Posted on 12/01/2012 16:55
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I think it's just a considered gamble tbh, as has been said if we don't go up were likely to lose bates and hoyte who will be on an nice chunk of money and Williams is almost certain to leave. Those out goings will easily offset this deal and if we go up it will just end up a drop in the ocean. So I don't think we need to sell at all tbh.[^]

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 12/01/2012 16:58
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Exactly. Gibbo's picked up the baton again after dropping it for the last couple of changeovers.

The crowds have been bigger than expected and we have spare cash to flutter.

Simple maths that Adi's struggling with.

Adi_Dem Posted on 12/01/2012 18:15
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I'm not struggling with anything. You are now being a dick though.

It's quite clear that you didn't understand what I was saying. That's not my fault. Our debt or it's manageability has nothing to do with the point I am making. I seriously doubt that a slight rise in revenue over, at most, a six month period has resulted in us being able to make any greater long term commitment than we could in the summer. You see there's a difference between a short term increase in revenue and a 5 year commitment to a players contract.

I really do despair sometimes at the level of debate on here. I've made extremely reasonable, fair and straightforward points that I would be happy to debate with people who disagree and, moreover, would behalf to be proven wrong about. Instead of choosing debate you get some of the rubbish that's spouted on here.

The players whose contracts expire may well create a gap in the summer. That was true in the summer as well. What is also true is that they will need replacing and that will cost money too. Look, it's really simple, I hope I am proven wrong but all I said, and no more, is that it wouldn't surprise me if there had to be outgoings as well. That's it.

As for Raz's comments it's probably best if he Tries to understand things before commenting on them.

mikehunt Posted on 12/01/2012 18:20
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Adi now in meltdown Cat.
He knows you know.[:D]

heaton_mersey_boro Posted on 12/01/2012 18:27
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Adi, I honestly think Gibson is looking to speculate to accumulate.

IF Jutkiewicz is signed for a reasonable outlay, and assume his wages are going to be well within our pay scales and IF he does the business on the pitch then we MAY end up top 2.

As it stands with our spluttering strikeforce it is doubtful. New faces are needed and hopefully this will get us promoted.

If we were going for an established PL striker for £5-8m with £50-70k week wages, yeah I could see where you are coming from.

But we are after a gadge from a bottom of the league side who has done reasonably well over the past couple of seasons.

A gamble for a potentially decent player, thats all.

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 12/01/2012 18:38
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"You are now being a dick though"

Go on Adi lad! [:D]

I think you're right btw, in an ideal world a couple will make some room on the weekly wage bill, but I also think that there are some that will only go if there is an offer which is too good to refuse - every player has his price and we're no different, especially so at the moment.

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 12/01/2012 18:39
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dp

rob_fmttm Posted on 12/01/2012 18:43
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Im going to say right here and now that Bates and Williams will not be leaving this transfer window.

Unless and there is always an unless in football someone suddenly offers a total joke figure like £20m from Rhys etc. I think they are going nowhere and I have far more than circumstantial evidence to back this up. We are now building not pruning or cutting back.


celestial_teapot Posted on 12/01/2012 18:44
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I don't think Adi is wrong that we might have to sell to get a wage off the book, I do disagree that we will need to sell Bates or Williams.

There will be other players on higher wages than those two like McDonald or McManus maybe.

Bates is out of contract in the summer anyway and Williams will leave in the summer, IF we don't get promoted.

I think it is more likely that we will keep most of our players until the summer unless anyone comes in for fringe players like Kink.

Six months with an extra wage isn't going to ruin us and there are 10 players out of contract this summer.

UAUA Posted on 12/01/2012 18:45
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Good to hear that Rob.

Edwin Posted on 12/01/2012 18:50
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As teapot says, we can't really lose on the wage front. We keep the current squad, add a couple &, hopefully, come the end of the season we get promoted. Sorted.

If we don't, 2 of the highest earners (Bates & Hoyte) leave on frees to be replaced by cheaper (wage wise) alternatives, & we get decent dough for Rhys. Again, sorted.

mikehunt Posted on 12/01/2012 18:54
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Boro will only sell a player they can do without, or one they need but get a hugelyinflated fee for.

I believe you Rob.

Still think we'll permanently sign a good un in Jan and bring good loan(s) in on top with a fringe player going if we can move them out.

dooderooni Posted on 12/01/2012 19:14
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For a team with a spluttering strikeforce to be 2 points off top at this stage is pretty good I'd say.

Maybe Mogga has shown that he's even more capable than Gibbo thought and is way ahead of where we hoped we'd be. Gibbo is just buying a few more lottery tickets because he's feeling lucky and to be honest, who can blame him with Mogga at the helm.

Settling for a season of consolidation now when we are in such a good position would be a bit daft when you consider that not only would be likely to lose some key players in the summer if we stayed down but also those clubs likely to drop out of the PL would be in a better financial position than us as well.

Mogga has proven that he knows how to get teams promoted from this division so giving him a bit of funding to achieve that again is not that big a risk.

beamishboro Posted on 12/01/2012 19:24
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he's signed.

Adi_Dem Posted on 12/01/2012 19:41
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No meltdown, just telling it like it is.

Good post dood and I think that if anything has changed the landscape for Gibson it's Mowbray not a brief increase in Christmas attendances. We're not suddenly 'flush', it's how successful Mowbray has been and how close we are to the promised land. I argued a few weeks ago that that probably wasn't the soundest foundation upon which Gibson would base a business decision but maybe this isn't a business decision. Maybe, as you say, he's going for it once again.

I think this lad will be a cracking signing based on the limited times I've seen him. Maybe it's the first of many signings, who knows!

coluka Posted on 12/01/2012 19:45
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Dood & Adi

You both made cracking sense to me I could not agree more with your comments. This lad is a very good player at this level and probably has enough ability at Premier level. He (for us presently) is a major signing and a lovely New Year Present from Sir Steve - I also think more signings will come in even if only on loan [^]

ovy1 Posted on 12/01/2012 20:06
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My Celtic mate reckons the talk up there is they Want Scott MaDonald back!! Or 'Skippy' as they call him (very orginal!)

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 12/01/2012 20:10
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I think he could prove to be an inspired signing, he's only 22 and is only going to get better.

Others, such as Becchio or Billy Sharp are as good as they are ever going to be and aren't going to get better in the next few years.

FrozenHorse Posted on 12/01/2012 20:17
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I agree with Jonny.

Only 4 players in the division have scored more this season and Jukiewicz's goals came playing for one of the weakest sides in the division.

More importantly, he's decent in the air which I think will add vital variety to our attack.

Some will bring out the old line "our attacking play is all about speed and movement". That's true, and it's also why some teams have found us easy to defend against this season. He could add another dimension to our play.[^]

lapennabianca Posted on 12/01/2012 20:25
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To be fair to him, Jutkiewicz is reasonably mobile for a big lad, he runs the channels well and Mogga wouldn't be interested if he was just a big lump.

halcyon Posted on 12/01/2012 20:26
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He's no Kris Boyd.

HamptonCourt Posted on 12/01/2012 20:28
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southampton are trying to sign gary hooper so maybe there's something in that scotty mc rumour, although to be fair he's been rumoured to be returning there ever since we signed him

Sky_Blue_Daz Posted on 12/01/2012 20:40
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Evening Boro fans. You have a great signing in Juke, he runs his balls off, holds the ball up well, really good in the air. Can only wish him the best for the rest of his career, he stepped up to the plate when King Judused us. Good luck for the rest of the season

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 12/01/2012 20:41
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"He's no Kris Boyd."

I'll drink to that!

FrozenHorse Posted on 12/01/2012 20:43
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"You have a great signing in Juke, he runs his balls off, holds the ball up well, really good in the air"

Thanks Daz; good to hear a fan NOT slating a departing player for a change.

I wish we could give you good news about Nimely though. I'll settle for saying that he can only improve.

Sky_Blue_Daz Posted on 12/01/2012 20:45
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Cant slag the player off, Its Sisu's fault shower of F**Kwits. Anyway enjoy the Ricoh

BoroPhil Posted on 12/01/2012 20:46
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Nimely never really had a chance. when he came on at peterboro away he looked quite dangerous, if he has a run of games he could do alright. he certainly doesn't deserve this awful reputation boro fans seem to have given him

the_dude_strikes_back Posted on 12/01/2012 20:50
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[rle]av you heard rob pretending hes got loads of inside info, and hes in with the gaffers


yeh, we all know bates and williams won't leave because its in the papers

stop pretending your the 'jesus' of boro fans rob, and just accept your a bog standard gonger like most of us

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 12/01/2012 21:03
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Bates IS out of contract in the summer isnt he? Would be really surprised if we didn't take 3 million off someone.

Maybes were taking the gamble we couldn't with Johnson, especially since he'd been angling for a move for sometime, and wouldn't sign a new deal even if we'd gone up.

Anyhow, good job in signing a striker. Hopefully he's not bobbins. Like they usually are.

FrozenHorse Posted on 12/01/2012 21:08
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"Nimely never really had a chance"

Half true. Other players like Martin and even Ogbeche made bigger impacts coming off the bence than Nimely. He had the same chance as them initially. I know he didn't get to start, but he didn't make much of an impression with the cameos that he had.

"Bates IS out of contract in the summer isnt he? Would be really surprised if we didn't take 3 million off someone. "

£3 million, I agree. However Swansea were only willing to go to £1million in the summer, so I'd be surprised if anyone offered more than £750k. If the alternative is letting him go on a free in the summer, I think the gamble of keeping him is probably worth it.

sambaDTR Posted on 12/01/2012 21:11
Fee Agreed for Jutkiewicz

Will he post when he signs?


Link: LukeyJuke

Adi_Dem Posted on 13/01/2012 09:02
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From the Northern Echo:

"He added: "Moving on we need to create some space in the budget to move things around. I have no problem with the people that are not impacting on the first XI moving on.

"If it suits us financially and suits the player then that is football. I will be very loathe to lose a player who is playing his part every week. It is a fine balancing act for us. We probably do need some funds to bring players in but not by selling the wrong ones."

So that allays my fears a bit and supports the message that Rob got.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 13/01/2012 09:06
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to be fair a lot of people have told you that on here or at least suggested that might be the case.

We may have sold Bates in the summer, but ONLY if the price was right and ONLY because of his contract situation. That showed that we didnt NEED to sell players, especially as we had signed up a couple of first team players around that time albiet with no transfer fees (which has never been the issue with you).

I hope Bates does not go, but if a club bid 5million, i could understand if he did.

celestial_teapot Posted on 13/01/2012 09:15
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It doesn't make sense to take £3m off anyone for Bates in January, I'd put money on him re-signing if we get promoted.

So at the moment, with him playing his part in the best defence in the division I expect we will keep him until the summer.


Adi_Dem Posted on 13/01/2012 09:37
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No Raz. The position in the summer was exactly as I said it was. That was confirmed by the club. The only thing being discussed here is whether that position has changed on the back of 6 months excellent football.

Arguably, it has. I said that I'd be surprised if that were the case. Equally, you could argue that this article expresses exactly the point I was making, namely that players had to leave in order to fund new signings. Now, yes, those players may be different to the ones I expected to be sold but the point still remains a valid one.

Let's be clear here though. In order for us to have made a major signing in the summer, players had to leave. In order for us to make signings now, so it appears from these quotes, players have to leave.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 13/01/2012 09:49
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it depends what you class as major.

in the reality of our situation i would class first team players as major, so the resigning of Arca and Haroun.

i am not sure if you would have classed Lukas as major, i dont know his wage demands, but of course in the summer we felt we had a chance with him, without the need to off load further players.

Adi_Dem Posted on 13/01/2012 09:52
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Well I can tell you that neither Arca nor Haroun were major signings. In the summer we didn't sign him because we had to offload players in order to do so. That seems to have changed now, presumably because of Mowbray's performance.

It's simple stuff.

bear66 Posted on 13/01/2012 10:02
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This is a HIGE signing in the context of where we've come from. Arca and Haroun were positive but this suggests that money will follow some success and long may it continue.

Boro_Brick_Road Posted on 13/01/2012 10:05
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I've gone right off this Jutkiewicz lad - he uses the word 'swell' in his twitter feed [|)]

Adi_Dem Posted on 13/01/2012 10:12
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Absolutely, this is a major signing given where we were even just a year ago.

It's difficult to go over the top given that I've seen only a limited amount of his games but he certainly seems to fit the bill as to what we're missing up front. We now have a pool of 4 strikers in whom we can have a bit of confidence and variation. I'd be keen to see a front three of Jutkiewicz, Macdonald and Emnes.

Clearly we could do with some pace and width in midfield but to be honest if the squad stayed as it was now with only fringe players departing I'd be delighted.

The_Lizards_Jumpers Posted on 13/01/2012 10:13
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" I've gone right off this Jutkiewicz lad - he uses the word 'swell' in his twitter feed "

He's gone up in my estimation, very Pete Campbell from Mad Men. If he chooses to use the word "Swelligant" then he'll instantly become my favourite ever Boro player before he's even started a game.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 13/01/2012 10:19
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ok we didnt try and sign Lukas at all then, and no enquiry was ever made.

those two are major players within our first team squad. They were as major as anyone who comes in and vastly improves the first team.

I guess we differ on that.

munich_mike Posted on 13/01/2012 10:32
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Adi, I like your mix of 'insider' knowledge, and 'fan guesswork' but at times I think you are a little too pessimistic (or maybe inflexible with your opinions is better)in the guesswork dept. You quote above that to make signings now players 'HAVE' to leave...which is not quite the case is it...as non have gone, but we HAVE signed...and a first team player at that.
I am sure that Mowbray has said to Gibbo that he can maintain the push IF a number of fringe players disappeared (and NOT be replaced like for like), that would make the room for a signing such as The Juke in an area that WILL (I hope) make all the difference, and gibbo has gone with the gamble that if they don't go, then he will foot the bill anyway...which wasn't the case in the summer...when expectations were only of mid table(so why the hell should he?) That is where the 6 months have made the diffence.
I really think that this is a great signing, with the possibility of even a couple more loan signings in feb sometime(I would aim the 90 day rule so that they are still eligible for the southampton game)...maybe a goalie (is smith available), and another winger anyone? It is very exciting times, and I am sure Gibbo is feeling that right now...hence his more flexible approach...what a guy!


Razmond_HWDR Posted on 13/01/2012 10:36
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well said mike, i think it would be highly irresponsible of the club, if we had to sell any of the squad before we could buy anyone to maintain balance, if we bought a player without selling someone first.

in adi's world surely this buggers up our accounts until someone is sold - which is no guarantee.

Adi_Dem Posted on 13/01/2012 10:44
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Yes Raz, we do differ. I suggest, once again, that you re-read what I've actually posted. Please tell me where I ever said we didn't make an enquiry for him in the summer.

In respect of your second post, Raz, I suggest you not comment until you understand what's being said.

Mike, it's a question of semantics and context. Look at the sentence you're referring to:

"Arguably, it has. I said that I'd be surprised if that were the case. Equally, you could argue that this article expresses exactly the point I was making, namely that players had to leave in order to fund new signings. Now, yes, those players may be different to the ones I expected to be sold but the point still remains a valid one."

What I was saying is that the article in the Echo could be taken either way. What I said in the summer was that in order to fund this signing the club had to sell in advance. That has since been confirmed by the club. I've said above that I see that that position may have changed and that I'm surprised it has.

Players still may now have to leave of course as that article implies, but it's clear that something has changed since the summer.

So I'm not being pessimistic or optimistic really. I made a point in the summer that was absolutely correct at the time I made it. I said that I would be surprised if that status quo had altered to the extent that we could fund major signings in January without selling first. On that basis, here I am, surprised but pleasantly so.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 13/01/2012 10:51
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'That has since been confirmed by the club'

where has that since been confirmed by the club, because rather than people think your comments are pure guess work they would then know that you and the club are saying the same things.

and the article you refer to did not say players HAD to be sold. It was more about balancing a squad, which makes sense. I dont think things are as tight as you like to make out.

rob_fmttm Posted on 13/01/2012 11:01
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You see I have been present when the Northern Echo have been asking these questions so have heard the answers - and have the quotes on tape. But they are the exclusives of the Echo and other reporters. So it would be wrong of me to publish the answers.

I just wanted to allay everyone's fears cos I keep hearing the message we are not going to sell first team regulars. Most especially not Rhys Williams.

munich_mike Posted on 13/01/2012 11:08
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Pleased your surprised [:D]...but I don't think I am actually...Mowbray inspires more and more confidence in us, the fans, by backing up his words with (mostly) correct actions, and lets his results do most of his talking...Gibbo is also a fan, and therefore must have similar feelings...this infectious and growing belief that we have the right man at the right time, and that if you need to make a financial gamble(for surely that is what this is...but man, what a prize!) a year or maybe 2 earlier than 'planned', then now is the time (and I mean right now...my major worry was that we would not get anyone of the calibre needed before the 31st jan, and then with bedding in time etc etc it leaves little time for anyone to make an impact). I would LOVE it if he makes the field for tomorrow's game...as I am going[^], and I am sure they are pushing for all it is worth.. but even if it is the cov game, we still have the jump on most of the top teams...very cool.

UAUA Posted on 13/01/2012 11:18
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"Most especially not Rhys Williams."

Great to hear, he is easily our most valuable player. Class act.

Adi_Dem Posted on 13/01/2012 12:20
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I agree mike, that's clearly what's happened. I just didn't expect Gibbo to make his decisions like a fan, I thought those days were gone. Don't get me wrong though, I'm delighted with this signing, I really am. I will be disappointed if he doesn't play a part tomorrow. I'm taking my 4 year old for only his second game!

Raz - not sure I understand what you mean by 'where has that since been confirmed by the club'. The manager has said as much on several occasions.

Oh, and you're right "the article you refer to did not say players HAD to be sold.", it implied it, which is exactly what I said.

red_shamrock Posted on 13/01/2012 12:22
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It always ends up like a court case when you post Adi[:D]

Adi_Dem Posted on 13/01/2012 12:25
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Just how I like it!

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 13/01/2012 12:26
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'Those most likely have to be Williams and Bates I think.'

You still with that one?

Adi_Dem Posted on 13/01/2012 12:28
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No, Mr Cat hence my first post of the day:

"From the Northern Echo:

"He added: "Moving on we need to create some space in the budget to move things around. I have no problem with the people that are not impacting on the first XI moving on.

"If it suits us financially and suits the player then that is football. I will be very loathe to lose a player who is playing his part every week. It is a fine balancing act for us. We probably do need some funds to bring players in but not by selling the wrong ones."

So that allays my fears a bit and supports the message that Rob got. "

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 13/01/2012 12:33
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the manager has not said we need to sell first team players to buy first team players at all.

at was not implied at all either. it implied that we would HAVE to carefully manage the budget, that did not imply sales of players HAD to happen.

If that is how you read everything the club say no wonder you are stating what the club have never said all the time.

halcyon Posted on 13/01/2012 12:37
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Moth to a flame.

Razmond to any Adi post. [:D]

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 13/01/2012 12:38
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So you were wrong from the off then!

Apology accepted.

red_shamrock Posted on 13/01/2012 12:40
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It's good to see someone apologise on here,good of you to accept it CTC.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 13/01/2012 12:47
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I'm easy going that way, RS.

Adi_Dem Posted on 13/01/2012 12:56
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Raz, look up the word implied, re-read the article and then read my posts today. Repeat process until you understand. Warning - it will take a while.

Mr Cat, yep, that's why I said right at the start that i had no idea which players would be sold. Do try to keep up.


Razmond_HWDR Posted on 13/01/2012 13:18
Fee Agreed for Jutkiewicz

i know what it means, infact i always know what is meant and seem to have a better idea than you.

i wonder if you are still in favour of us selling Bates... as he was the one player you wanted us to sell last summer... even thought Mowbray was very reluctant to do so.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 13/01/2012 13:20
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adi

implied must mean 'to interpret something that isnt there'

cause thats what you did [^]

bill_door Posted on 13/01/2012 13:45
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"implied must mean 'to into something that isnt there'"

Straight from the official Dictionary of Razland.[:D]

Adi_Dem Posted on 13/01/2012 14:31
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Never mind what 'it must mean' just follow the simple instructions I've given you and you might get there.

In relation to your Bates point you've once again demonstrated that you can't understand simple posts. What I actually said last summer was that in an ideal world you would keep Bates but since he was in the last year of his contract and we needed to raise funds because we were weak up front it might be a good idea to sacrifice Bates. Come on even you ought to be able to grasp that.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 13/01/2012 14:35
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you said such things as 'i think bates will be sold'

and 'we wont sign anyone until bates is sold'

theres a book called 1984 you should read it [^]

Adi_Dem Posted on 13/01/2012 14:39
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As I said Raz it's a simple point. Just try your best, noone can ask any more of you.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 13/01/2012 14:41
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you might need to rewrite a bit more history... but keep it up, its making more sense than the stuff you put out before about Bates needing to be sold [^]

Adi_Dem Posted on 13/01/2012 14:43
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Keep that hamster running Raz, you'll get there.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 13/01/2012 14:46
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[:D]

red_shamrock Posted on 13/01/2012 14:47
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I can see why he wants Bates selling,out of contract etc get some money in.

truck Posted on 13/01/2012 16:45
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Bloody hell talk about labouring a point!

I think we all accept our finances were dire, and Gibson took some drastic action. Mowbray has said that players had stupid contracts that had no allowances for relegation / promotion and that is something that will change.
The first half of the season has exceeded the clubs expectation, Gibson had a longer term rebuild in mind, BUT the pot of gold that is the PL is available to us now, and that is worth about £80m to the club even if we get relegated straight away, with initial approx £30m and then the parachute payments for 4 years.
It makes sense to make an investment to try and achieve that as that amount of money would not only put us back in the black but more importantly allow Mowbray to re-build properly.
I for one don't think we are strong enough with the squad we have to go up automatically, we are not scoring enough goals for a top team in the league if this signing is confirmed then hopefully this will change.

Adi_Dem Posted on 13/01/2012 16:59
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Criticising the labouring of a point by labouring it further!!

[;)]

woodymfc Posted on 13/01/2012 17:18
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It always ends up like a court case when you post Adi [^]

Splitting Hairs comes to mind

Adi_Dem Posted on 13/01/2012 17:24
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Depends on your mind I suppose.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 13/01/2012 17:26
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judge and jury [^]

Adi_Dem Posted on 13/01/2012 17:27
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Richard and Judy

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 13/01/2012 17:27
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Punch and Judy ! [^]

woodymfc Posted on 13/01/2012 17:29
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My mind pictures you with your head up your jacksi

Adi_Dem Posted on 13/01/2012 17:30
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Whatever turns you on I suppose.

red_shamrock Posted on 13/01/2012 17:32
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Ahhh yer have to go some to get past Raz.
He wont have the club slagged and can see when someone advocates flogging its better players.

He wont be snowed by Adi,yet some thinks he`s a complete clot.

Adi_Dem Posted on 13/01/2012 17:33
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Who thinks that he's a complete clot?

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 13/01/2012 17:34
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ooo ahhh you could be right me ole' ship mucker you

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 13/01/2012 17:34
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i dont even know what that means, and yet i am offended!

red_shamrock Posted on 13/01/2012 17:35
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Well its not me Adi.

Adi_Dem Posted on 13/01/2012 17:36
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You clot

woodymfc Posted on 13/01/2012 17:36
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Bloody hell talk about labouring a point!

I think we all accept our finances were dire, and Gibson took some drastic action. Mowbray has said that players had stupid contracts that had no allowances for relegation / promotion and that is something that will change.
The first half of the season has exceeded the clubs expectation, Gibson had a longer term rebuild in mind, BUT the pot of gold that is the PL is available to us now, and that is worth about £80m to the club even if we get relegated straight away, with initial approx £30m and then the parachute payments for 4 years.
It makes sense to make an investment to try and achieve that as that amount of money would not only put us back in the black but more importantly allow Mowbray to re-build properly.
I for one don't think we are strong enough with the squad we have to go up automatically, we are not scoring enough goals for a top team in the league if this signing is confirmed then hopefully this will change. Excellent post Sir [^]

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 13/01/2012 17:36
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[:D][^]

red_shamrock Posted on 13/01/2012 17:37
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I never thought you would take offence, I don't think Adi means to be offensive.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 13/01/2012 17:39
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Mowbray has always said that if he went to the chairman and stated the case for a player being available who would improve us, who would offer something different and fit in with what the manager wanted to do in terms of improving the side/squad in the long-term, then he was confident the chairman would back him like he has backed every other manager he has employed.

We might say the 'sell to buy', 'one out, one in' stuff in public but if the manager states his case well enough, behind closed doors, then Gibson will fund him.

Adi_Dem Posted on 13/01/2012 17:40
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I do actually.

Adi_Dem Posted on 13/01/2012 17:43
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My feeling is that He's really only started saying that in the last few months Viv. Maybe it's designed to put pressure on the chairman.

In any event I am delighted to have got him, I think it's a great signing.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 13/01/2012 17:52
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He said it at the Supporter's Club meeting during that Q&A session last January, Adi. But yeah I'd probably agree with you in truth, he's only started really saying it in front the 'wider-public', if you like, over the past couple of months.

And I'd also fully-agree with your second sentence. I'm chuffed. We've needed an aerial-threat all season long and we've gone out got someone who can, hopefully, put a few in with his head and push opposition defenders about a bit. And he'll be a good footballer, too. Haven't seen a lot of him but I have a lot of faith in him considering Mowbray has decided to spend up to £2m on him when things are perhaps a little tight.

It caps off a good week and sets things up nicely for tomorrow.