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ayresomemark Posted on 10/04/2008 19:53
Your Views on Conscription?

or national service.

Especially if your 17 - 21.

In the current state of our land is a lot different from the 50's. Given that our forces are stretched to breaking point would their be a valid need. I dont think front line duties would be called for more logistical type work.

thoughts or discussions.

misterpaul Posted on 10/04/2008 19:56
Your Views on Conscription?

I'm 18 and wouldn't be against it in all honesty.
I probably wouldn't like it but I do think it would give people a kick up the arse into the real world and learn to respect people.

LemmyKilmister Posted on 10/04/2008 19:58
Your Views on Conscription?

It'd cost a fortune to put into place.
And the youth of today wouldn't wear it. The idea of service to ones nation or people means little in todays society.

It's a good idea though.

wokingmassive Posted on 10/04/2008 19:58
Your Views on Conscription?

A very good thing I think.

Teaches you discipline and respect. Something that is lacking in society at the moment.

RedSectorA Posted on 10/04/2008 20:07
Your Views on Conscription?

Being well out of the age bracket, I'd say it was a damn fine idea.

ayresomemark Posted on 10/04/2008 20:08
Your Views on Conscription?

i would think that would be its secondary focus.


rubber_soles Posted on 10/04/2008 20:08
Your Views on Conscription?

Good idea. All the other countries i've lived in have it and it's worked a treat.

bigdave85 Posted on 10/04/2008 20:10
Your Views on Conscription?

I think it should be an option for school leavers, either you go to college for further education and to learn a profession or you sign up for 2 years "disciplined service" (not neccessarily in the armed forces)where you will be taught a trade.

Towell Posted on 10/04/2008 20:12
Your Views on Conscription?

It'll either work or ruin the armed services.

The_Enigma Posted on 10/04/2008 20:13
Your Views on Conscription?

The forces don't want national service. They need people who want to join not people who are forced to join.

djlocky9999 Posted on 10/04/2008 20:14
Your Views on Conscription?

the human rights law would have a field day if they tried to bring it in. should be given as punishment to yobs

You_Drive_Me_Swayze Posted on 10/04/2008 20:18
Your Views on Conscription?

And what happens when they refuse to do it?

Towell Posted on 10/04/2008 20:19
Your Views on Conscription?

Shoot them for Cowardice.

stewboss Posted on 10/04/2008 20:24
Your Views on Conscription?

There is a school of thought that says that all it does is teach nutters how to kill and mame more effectively.

RedSectorA Posted on 10/04/2008 20:24
Your Views on Conscription?

"Shoot them for Cowardice."

I could suggest a shortcut to this..

Hello school leaver, wehat'll it be education, work or does Mr Magnum have to come out of my top drawer?

NedKat Posted on 10/04/2008 20:30
Your Views on Conscription?

The armed forces of 2008 are a hell of lot different from the 1950's armed forces. These days the technology is state of the art, mind blowing shyt man !! The Navy is probably the most technical, and these days they aint looking for some dog-end to scrub the decks, they're looking for sharp people who can be trained to operate and maintain multi-million pound systems. The louts and chavs on the streets today may be pretty decent gun fodder, but they wouldn't last five minutes living with trained and tested troops. They'd be shyting their pants at the thought of who they very nearly P***ed off ...

You_Drive_Me_Swayze Posted on 10/04/2008 20:34
Your Views on Conscription?

"There is a school of thought that says that all it does is teach nutters how to kill and mame more effectively."

Absolutely! Plus why should we burden the Armed forces with some of these imbeciles? Me personally I wouldn't have no objection to serving the forces and retrospectively thinking I wish I had done, but to serve alongside some unpredictable cretin on a live firing range for example is madness, so F*** that.

Bren_MFC Posted on 10/04/2008 20:37
Your Views on Conscription?

They wouldn't be able to refuse, it would be the law, they would spend a nice little spell in a military jail.

Towell Posted on 10/04/2008 20:38
Your Views on Conscription?

Perhaps we should put the parents of these delinquents in boot camp.


NedKat Posted on 10/04/2008 20:40
Your Views on Conscription?

These modern day teenagers moving around in their gangs, trying to look hard, picking on people when they outnumber them 4 to 1. They would absolutely crap in their mummy purchased undercrackers if they spent one single night with some of my old shipmates ...

And before the "Hello Sailor" brigade crawl out from their caves, it had bugger all to do with any form of sexuality !!

You_Drive_Me_Swayze Posted on 10/04/2008 20:41
Your Views on Conscription?

"They wouldn't be able to refuse, it would be the law, they would spend a nice little spell in a military jail."

Well yes they would be able to refuse and if your solution is to throw them in jail just think for a second how many people there actually would be in prison for refusing conscription.

Sounds like a good idea that, like. Let's force people people to serve in the military and when they refuse bung them in overcrowded prisons.

Who's going to pay for such an operation to be put in place?

You_Drive_Me_Swayze Posted on 10/04/2008 20:44
Your Views on Conscription?

"These modern day teenagers moving around in their gangs, trying to look hard, picking on people when they outnumber them 4 to 1. They would absolutely crap in their mummy purchased undercrackers if they spent one single night with some of my old shipmates ...

And before the "Hello Sailor" brigade crawl out from caves, it had bugger all to do with any form of sexuality"

I hear they do teabagging in the Navy.

NedKat Posted on 10/04/2008 20:47
Your Views on Conscription?

Swayze, did you miss the bit about caves ... ?

Deep_In_My_Heart Posted on 10/04/2008 20:50
Your Views on Conscription?

being in the armed forces now, i think it would be a great idea although i dont think it would work. I joined when I was 17 and ive grown up so a lot more quickly than my mates back at home and the life skills you learn, i think everyone should be learning at this age. However, the armed forces are cutting down due to an increase in technology and these theres no need need for national service

NedKat Posted on 10/04/2008 20:51
Your Views on Conscription?

Your in the Army, aren't you ?

Bren_MFC Posted on 10/04/2008 20:51
Your Views on Conscription?

Swayze, they would only be able to refuse if it was made optional surely, I thoght this was about Conscription, which would be mandatory.

Deep_In_My_Heart Posted on 10/04/2008 20:54
Your Views on Conscription?

RAF

xxlshirts_fit_all Posted on 10/04/2008 20:56
Your Views on Conscription?

there are some very good young lads in the forces at the moment, but there is a large minority of lads who dont cut it and these are all volunteers. i can imagine some of the dross we would get in if they were forced to join up. mind there are some jobs they could do which would releive the pressure on those who need to get on with a very important job

You_Drive_Me_Swayze Posted on 10/04/2008 20:59
Your Views on Conscription?

"Swayze, they would only be able to refuse if it was made optional surely, I thoght this was about Conscription, which would be mandatory."

They can still refuse to do conscription, if someone refuses how do you propose they are made to do it? Drag them by their hair kicking and screaming, force them to shoot at targets? I think it's fair to say that having some disgruntled naysayer forced to do military is a bad idea that goes without saying I certainly wouldn't want to serve next to some P***ed off delinquent.

09_dave_09 Posted on 10/04/2008 21:00
Your Views on Conscription?

Its a bad idea because the armed forces at the moment are commiting war crimes and more people being forced into the war machine and by proxy be involved with innocent murders of human life. This is wrong.

NedKat Posted on 10/04/2008 21:01
Your Views on Conscription?

"YOU WOULDN'T HAVE ANY CHOICE, THERE LOFTY" ..!!!

"NOW FALL IN, AND SHUT THE FOOK UP" .. !!!

carslake Posted on 10/04/2008 21:18
Your Views on Conscription?

Nobody is putting my lads in no Olivers army and using them as Bushes cannon fodder.

Can't think of anything more obscene that teaching everybody that killing is OK at 17.

We must have more of an idea than that, its the 21st century not 1914

number9point5 Posted on 10/04/2008 21:20
Your Views on Conscription?

i was conscripted into the SADF at 19, faught in a war and have been left scared mentally since. Great idea.

wokingmassive Posted on 10/04/2008 21:20
Your Views on Conscription?

teenagers running around and stabbing each other to death - is that the way forward then?

NedKat Posted on 10/04/2008 21:22
Your Views on Conscription?

"YOU THREE !! YES, YOU SCRUFFY LITTLE BASTAAARDSS !!! PULL YER HEADS OUT YER ASS'OLES AND SCRUB THAT DECK HARDER THAN THAT" ... !!!!!

Bren_MFC Posted on 10/04/2008 21:23
Your Views on Conscription?

Good job most lads did their duty during WW2, where would we be now if everybody just couldn't be bothered or simply didn't fancy it.

Rod100 Posted on 10/04/2008 21:24
Your Views on Conscription?

no need for it at all IMO.

if the parents actually did some parenting then we wouldn't be where we are now. it stems from home.

borobadge Posted on 10/04/2008 21:25
Your Views on Conscription?

there is not a cat in hells chance of re-introducing 'national service' as part of a conscription progranme in these countries on these islands...

i do however expect the governments of the future to use the threat of the 'armed forces' for the youth who dont have an education programme or a meaningful job....

wokingmassive Posted on 10/04/2008 21:26
Your Views on Conscription?

Rod100 - thats a good call - and very true.

But the reality is that the parenting isn't happening. And that is why I think conscription would and could work.

You_Drive_Me_Swayze Posted on 10/04/2008 21:29
Your Views on Conscription?

"Good job most lads did their duty during WW2, where would we be now if everybody just couldn't be bothered or simply didn't fancy it."

Well you're talking about something completely different. You can't compare liberating Europe from tyranny and defending our homeland to that of the current situation in the Middle-East; fighting some sham of a war because some thick fundamentalist, screwy F***ing slack-jawed head-rocker in the White House says so.

Bren_MFC Posted on 10/04/2008 21:31
Your Views on Conscription?

Swayze, who mentioned Bush in this argument, what about bringing standards back in general.

09_dave_09 Posted on 10/04/2008 21:33
Your Views on Conscription?

The difference with ww2 there was an imminent danger of our isles being invaded also a clear enemy. Where as if anything we are doing to iraq and afganistan the very same. Killing is wrong and teaching F***wits to use guns is very wrong. Parents are to blame for the youth, also its a minority that cause these problems most teenagers cause no problems and actually want to achieve to punish them and force them into war crimes for the minority is wrong.

Warwick_Hunt Posted on 10/04/2008 21:34
Your Views on Conscription?

Jesus Swayze you are giving me a heart attack, so god knows what you are doing to yourself.

It doesn't seem to have done other countries any harm. And if someone refuses to do it then they spend an equivalent amount of time shovelling S*** on a farm, cleaning prison lavatories with a toothbrush or censoring your posts for foul and abusive language - given the other options joining the armed forces would be the easy way out.

Bren_MFC Posted on 10/04/2008 21:37
Your Views on Conscription?

Conscientous objectors, I beleive they were called, they were also imprisoned.

09_dave_09 Posted on 10/04/2008 21:38
Your Views on Conscription?

so speaking from my point of view when i was 17. I was at college against war and blair. Worked part time to subsidise my education. I went to uni and am now in the fire brigade. But by your standards even tho i had done nothing wrong i would have to shovel S*** or clean toilets for what reason?

You_Drive_Me_Swayze Posted on 10/04/2008 21:39
Your Views on Conscription?

"Swayze, who mentioned Bush in this argument, what about bringing standards back in general."

I just did, that's who.

You made point about WWII and today, I made the point about the differing perspectives of war back then and today.

Trying conscription in this day in age when the chances are they'd be carted off to Iraq and Afghanistan would be met with a stone wall of refusal, simply because the public reception of this "War on Terror" is very unfavourable. It was different times back then.

Like I asked before; how do you propose that we force people to do national service?

mailinator Posted on 10/04/2008 21:39
Your Views on Conscription?

I'm in favour of it only when the People's Liberation Army are storming across Europe to pass on their version of democracy and only then.

I don't think we should be using the armed forces to fix our social problems though.

The_Dude Posted on 10/04/2008 21:41
Your Views on Conscription?

brilliant idea, force people into murdering people from another country just so they can have a semi ordinary life like most soldiers if they survive,and live with 50 years regret until they die

Warwick_Hunt Posted on 10/04/2008 21:43
Your Views on Conscription?

It's called sensationalism Dave.

You should have to undertake public service at a certain age is what I'm saying.

09_dave_09 Posted on 10/04/2008 21:47
Your Views on Conscription?

But id be all for some sort of forced comunity service for the retards who are causing problems but the idea that war is ok strikes me as wrong. The amount of people we have on the doal who dont need to be is a joke........Our streets should be clean and with no graffiti if i was a chav who spent all day cleaning walls id be reluctant to graffiti on a night or drop a bottle.

You_Drive_Me_Swayze Posted on 10/04/2008 21:48
Your Views on Conscription?

"Jesus Swayze you are giving me a heart attack, so god knows what you are doing to yourself.

It doesn't seem to have done other countries any harm. And if someone refuses to do it then they spend an equivalent amount of time shovelling S*** on a farm, cleaning prison lavatories with a toothbrush or censoring your posts for foul and abusive language - given the other options joining the armed forces would be the easy way out"

I don't think you understand. How would you go about forcing people to so this? This isn't F***ing North Korea mate, we live in a democracy. The free spirit people of these Isles have strong opinions and beliefs and won't be taken lightly. You cannot force these people to do things, regardless of how simply you believe it to be.

You tell someone they "have" to do National Service, they turn around and tell you to "F*** off". You tell them to do hard labour they tell you to "F*** off" then what? You then tell them if they don't they'll be slammed up in chokey they'll tell you to "F*** off" and end up in there with thousands and thousands and thousands of other young people too who refuse to be turned into killing machines. Yeah, I can see that being great for the economy when the British youth are all banged up instead of continuing with education/getting jobs/doing apprentices and what not. Who's going to pay for all the extra prisons that we need and the prisons guards and so on? I'll give you one guess.

Bren_MFC Posted on 10/04/2008 21:48
Your Views on Conscription?

Unfortunatley the lads in WW2 didn't get the luxury of a moral stance or conscienous, they did their duty. The ones who returned could hold their heads up high and they are remembered today. I know this is getting away from the Conscription thing but there is so much rubbish posted on here about people being taught to kill, where would we be without our Armed Forces, I dread to think.

Diasboro_Dan Posted on 10/04/2008 21:50
Your Views on Conscription?

I they had conscription we wouldn't be in Iraq or Afghanistan now. Political suicide.

Warwick_Hunt Posted on 10/04/2008 21:50
Your Views on Conscription?

F***ing C**** C*** W***** P*** T*** C*** F***er T*** B****** C*** T*** F***ing T*** F***ing B****** C*** T*** C**** knob B****** F***er T*** and that would do the F***ing trick.

The_Dude Posted on 10/04/2008 21:51
Your Views on Conscription?

what the F*** has being remembered got to do with anything, they are dead, there chance of life was extinguiushed, for nothing but S***e

You_Drive_Me_Swayze Posted on 10/04/2008 21:54
Your Views on Conscription?

"but there is so much rubbish posted on here about people being taught to kill, where would we be without our Armed Forces, I dread to think."

And as much as I have nothing but respect for those that volunteer to actually join the military, forcing people into it isn't way the to go about curing society's ills. It's absurd to think that it would actually succeed in today's world and would inevitably cause more troubles than people think it would solve.


ayresomemark Posted on 10/04/2008 21:59
Your Views on Conscription?

As i said at the beginning of the tread i think it would be too drastic to send them into combat, i was more thinking of training towards logistic, supply, engineering.

Also could be used by the government of the day for Military aid tasks such as flood relief,Emergency service strikes,etc.

I think it would be a two way street insomuch as the conscriptrd should at least get some formal re-education and as well as military training, life skills, national pride and future job skills.

Thats my take.Im not saying thats the right way but if it was to go ahead i would think that is a decent start.

xxlshirts_fit_all Posted on 10/04/2008 22:00
Your Views on Conscription?

no to conscription now!

when the darkies are on our shore blowing us up killing inocents thats the time to start recruiting...............

er hang on thats happening now isnt it?

[;)]

Bren_MFC Posted on 10/04/2008 22:04
Your Views on Conscription?

The Dude.....I'm glad you value their sacrifice so highly, love to have seen you in their shoes.

The_Dude Posted on 10/04/2008 22:06
Your Views on Conscription?

wot a load of sanctamonious S***e

Warwick_Hunt Posted on 10/04/2008 22:07
Your Views on Conscription?

Dear oh dear XXL.

Do you remember those 'darkies' from the IRA as well, you tosspot?

mailinator Posted on 10/04/2008 22:08
Your Views on Conscription?

As you said yourself though, "I know this is getting away from the Conscription thing".

There's a difference between *having* to defend your country and sending people to war to make them a "better" person.

09_dave_09 Posted on 10/04/2008 22:13
Your Views on Conscription?

ww2 is irrelevant to todays combat. The truth is people in the armed forces, doesnt matter what role are supporting an illeagal war wher innocent people are dying. I wouldn't want to have murder on my hands even if i was not in combat. I would be ashamed of wearing the uniform because of the atrosaties we have caused and are causing.

Bren_MFC Posted on 10/04/2008 22:14
Your Views on Conscription?

Nobody is on about sending them to war, it is about training, discipline and respect.

Warwick_Hunt Posted on 10/04/2008 22:15
Your Views on Conscription?

WW2. Didn't innocent people die?

Bombing of the German cities for example. Wasn't that a British plan where civilian casualties were collateral damage.

09_dave_09 Posted on 10/04/2008 22:15
Your Views on Conscription?

I personally wouldn't want to be trained by affectivly murders

09_dave_09 Posted on 10/04/2008 22:17
Your Views on Conscription?

the difference with world war2 is our isles were under threat of invasion and there was a clear danger.

You_Drive_Me_Swayze Posted on 10/04/2008 22:18
Your Views on Conscription?

"Nobody is on about sending them to war, it is about training, discipline and respect."

Who's to say they'll receive that in the military though? If they don't want to be there they'll make it known.

Bren_MFC Posted on 10/04/2008 22:19
Your Views on Conscription?

Yes and the Military will make it known why they are there, the chavs will not win believe me.

mailinator Posted on 10/04/2008 22:19
Your Views on Conscription?

Bren, are we saying they just have an army-lite where they are trained as if they were in the army but not really in the army? Wouldn't that be a S***ty assignment for the real army people who had to train those people?

09_dave_09, blame the politicians, not the people in uniform for the war they are in. How dare you say you would be ashamed of the very uniform that those people wear when they do so under orders. The same orders they follow when they come and bail you lot out again because you haven't had you latest 30k+ pay rise and have decided not to go to work this week.

09_dave_09 Posted on 10/04/2008 22:21
Your Views on Conscription?

I blame them because if i was to sign up for the armed forces i would have to trust the PM and political party that was in power which i dont. So nazi soldiers have no blame in their role in ww2.

xxlshirts_fit_all Posted on 10/04/2008 22:21
Your Views on Conscription?

warwick, check out the winkie it was a joke!

Its a dig at some peoples views on here about our current troubles!

i am against conscription for one reason, i dont want to work alongside kids who do not want to be doing the job i do voluntarily

nothing to do with their rights, however if this country comes under direct and identified threat i fully expect everyone to do their duty, either in the forces or in support of any effort taken to make our shores safe

i dont think that threat is current, and i certainly dont think its only going to be from "darkies"

09_dave_09 Posted on 10/04/2008 22:22
Your Views on Conscription?

By the way my salary is not above 30k not even close

ayresomemark Posted on 10/04/2008 22:22
Your Views on Conscription?

" The truth is people in the armed forces, doesnt matter what role are supporting an illeagal war wher innocent people are dying. I wouldn't want to have murder on my hands even if i was not in combat. I would be ashamed of wearing the uniform because of the atrosaties we have caused and are causing."

What atrocities ?????????


Dave, check the link mate

i cant see the british armed forces here.

This is off the topic but give yer head a shake.


Link: Real war crimes

Warwick_Hunt Posted on 10/04/2008 22:23
Your Views on Conscription?

Not at the point we bombed Dresden in February 1945 we weren't. What about Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

There is no glory in war for those at the front line - they are sent to the do the job they are trained to do, by the people who pay them to do it.

You_Drive_Me_Swayze Posted on 10/04/2008 22:23
Your Views on Conscription?

"Yes and the Military will make it known why they are there, the chavs will not win believe me."

No. You're presuming that these people are just going to submit themselves to conscription without making so much as a fuss. DO you really think that to be possible, do you think that they actually will agree to it? You seem to think forcing people to do this is a piece of cake.

neilg Posted on 10/04/2008 22:26
Your Views on Conscription?

mark - the last thing we want is S*** in the forces. we are not a corrective institution. there are some on here who pontificate but they wouldnt have the B*******. if you practice what you preach: if your between 17 - 32, fit and british. join up and serve. if youde rather sit on your arse and send the brothers, daughters, sons, mams and dads of others to the front line your C***s! so shut up you cowards!!

Bren_MFC Posted on 10/04/2008 22:26
Your Views on Conscription?

And what could they do in opposition to this exactly?

09_dave_09 Posted on 10/04/2008 22:27
Your Views on Conscription?

Being 24 and from a working class background i have plenty of mates who have come back from iraq and afgan that say that loads of innocents get killed. Due to suspicion of conciealment of weapon also that they give them a kicking when they get someone in custardy. Something to be proud of really.

BenJammin Posted on 10/04/2008 22:29
Your Views on Conscription?

conscription - we don't need it. There is no imminent threat of invasion, or shortage of troops to defend the country.

national service - don't think its necessary. Bad for the economy (taking your workforce out of action for 2 years in the prime of their life). Plus why should a hard working 18-20 year old who wants to learn, work and contribute to society have to do national service? Who does it benefit?

As for the thugs who have no respect and are a blight on society then yes maybe its a good idea. Give them one warning then ship them off for a year to a military style boot camp and teach them some respect...if they don't like it then tough S***.

09_dave_09 Posted on 10/04/2008 22:29
Your Views on Conscription?

Coward for not becoming part of the war machine..........what? Our forces are in a war illeagally

09_dave_09 Posted on 10/04/2008 22:30
Your Views on Conscription?

BJ thats basically what i think would be the answer for different reasons.

Esekiel1517 Posted on 10/04/2008 22:32
Your Views on Conscription?

Thats easy for you to say,Dave.;-)

ayresomemark Posted on 10/04/2008 22:32
Your Views on Conscription?

Neil - like lots of ex-service people on here i thought that would be the concensus.

I was thinking of it being more like the old "Home Battalions" that left all the combat /teeth arms to serve at the front.

I do take your point though we are not/should not be a corrective
tool used by the government of the day to re-balance societys problems.

However could there be a happy medium???? i dont know.

You_Drive_Me_Swayze Posted on 10/04/2008 22:33
Your Views on Conscription?

"mark - the last thing we want is S*** in the forces. we are not a corrective institution. there are some on here who pontificate but they wouldnt have the B*******. if you practice what you preach: if your between 17 - 32, fit and british. join up and serve. if youde rather sit on your arse and send the brothers, daughters, sons, mams and dads of others to the front line your C***s! so shut up you cowards!!"

Don't they teach English where you're from, or are you still reading Mr. Men and Spot The Dog books?

neilg Posted on 10/04/2008 22:36
Your Views on Conscription?

people become soldiers for all sorts of reasons. dont blame soldiers for political decisions.soldiers dont go to war.they fight for peace. arf you B******s aint got the guts!

ayresomemark Posted on 10/04/2008 22:38
Your Views on Conscription?

Dave - trust me.

They are a) lying b) showing off to impress.


I cant deny that in combat innocents die.

neilg Posted on 10/04/2008 22:39
Your Views on Conscription?

if you can read - you can join up!!! you arsehole! people have died for you to talk and act like a c***

09_dave_09 Posted on 10/04/2008 22:40
Your Views on Conscription?

I blame them because they chose their profession and part of that is you give trust in politicians. If your not clever enough to not trust politions especially with your life.

Bren_MFC Posted on 10/04/2008 22:40
Your Views on Conscription?

Well said, too many people on here with too many excuses not to send people for military training.

You_Drive_Me_Swayze Posted on 10/04/2008 22:45
Your Views on Conscription?

"if you can read - you can join up!!! you arsehole! people have died for you to talk and act like a c***"

Did they die for your education because it was obviously in vain?

You_Drive_Me_Swayze Posted on 10/04/2008 22:46
Your Views on Conscription?

"Well said, too many people on here with too many excuses not to send people for military training."

And too many people on here without a modicum of common sense or reasoning. Seem to think that everything is so black & white and simple.

09_dave_09 Posted on 10/04/2008 22:47
Your Views on Conscription?

I think a lot of people sign up wanting to make the world safer but in reality this doesnt always happen. Id rather our army were only present in the UK and defensive only. Not world police or what we have become

Esekiel1517 Posted on 10/04/2008 22:47
Your Views on Conscription?

Utmost respect for the Armed Forces,wouldnt want to do it myself,my Uncle was a JAP POW,wrote a book about his experiences.

My proudest possession is the samurai sword given to him at the end of the war,as was the Japanese tradition of 'Honour'.

neilg Posted on 10/04/2008 22:48
Your Views on Conscription?

your F***in simple and a waste of innocent lives. il see you in the central nxt home match.tell me that we are wasted.

09_dave_09 Posted on 10/04/2008 22:50
Your Views on Conscription?

Also no-one has died for me in battle

ayresomemark Posted on 10/04/2008 22:53
Your Views on Conscription?

After 24 years dave i dont know anyone who joined to make the world safer.

Interesting though you mention home defence. Our military doctrine is to defend these shores but i think the government want us to do it by eliminating the threat at source.

Bren_MFC Posted on 10/04/2008 22:56
Your Views on Conscription?

Dave, if that was a serious statement, you are obviously clueless about any history, who did they die for then?

09_dave_09 Posted on 10/04/2008 22:57
Your Views on Conscription?

But destroying cities and a countrys infrastructure doesnt help because we are hated by more people now and hate feeds terrorism. Killing families with mis guided missiles makes me disguisted to be british.

Bren_MFC Posted on 10/04/2008 23:03
Your Views on Conscription?

Dave, surely you know about the unfortunate incidents that happen in war, you think terrorism would be less, what would your alternative be?

outoftowned Posted on 10/04/2008 23:04
Your Views on Conscription?

if your're that opinionated and disgusted dave 09... then maybe you should go pay your taxes(if you do) to a country that's soldiers you believe in

or maybe when the regiment local to where you live returns, you should show your disgust then

the only warrior you'd ever be is on here or warhammer or something

Borocelt Posted on 10/04/2008 23:04
Your Views on Conscription?

Absolutely, why encourage education and career paths when we can create cannon fodder?

There's a reason why the USA is a world superpower, and the likes of China and Russia are not.

End of discussion.

09_dave_09 Posted on 10/04/2008 23:06
Your Views on Conscription?

To work on relations between the areas we have trouble with and promote democracy but not install with force. To have a smaller military that works on home defence and could help more with civil issues. Also world disasters ie, earthquakes

You_Drive_Me_Swayze Posted on 10/04/2008 23:07
Your Views on Conscription?

How about some competent world leaders that understand the definition of diplomacy, that aren't self-serving war-mongers that needlessly send service folk to their deaths on the backs of lies and deceit.

mailinator Posted on 10/04/2008 23:08
Your Views on Conscription?

"There's a reason why the USA is a world superpower, and the likes of China and Russia are not."

Sure about that?

09_dave_09 Posted on 10/04/2008 23:09
Your Views on Conscription?

I pay my taxes and serve the community as a Firefighter by the way, Im leaving to live in australia in 18 months. Im not leaving for our military issues but surely you dont want to live in a society with no open discussions

Borocelt Posted on 10/04/2008 23:11
Your Views on Conscription?

Positive, thankyou.

Anyone with an ounce of sense would be.

Bren_MFC Posted on 10/04/2008 23:11
Your Views on Conscription?

Dave, I'd love to live in your world, is it called Utopia.

09_dave_09 Posted on 10/04/2008 23:11
Your Views on Conscription?

who cares whos a superpower the happiest population on earth are the Kiwis apparently. You never here them getting caring about world power.

Warwick_Hunt Posted on 10/04/2008 23:13
Your Views on Conscription?

Dave, are you a plasterer, electrician or tiler when you are not sleeping on the job?

outoftowned Posted on 10/04/2008 23:14
Your Views on Conscription?

there are no open discussions with any goverment either ausie , uk or otherwise

you'll see that, with how the figures stack for prejudice when you get there

09_dave_09 Posted on 10/04/2008 23:14
Your Views on Conscription?

No i dont have a trade sadly so im a poor firefighter unlike most

ayresomemark Posted on 10/04/2008 23:14
Your Views on Conscription?

The NZ army are in Afghan.

Borocelt Posted on 10/04/2008 23:14
Your Views on Conscription?

I don't, i'm just dismissing an argument for conscription....

I.E. China have the largest amount of cannon fodder on the face of the planet, i'd suggest you'd rather live here than there. End of.

Bren_MFC Posted on 10/04/2008 23:16
Your Views on Conscription?

Yeah but I live here, whats your argument?

09_dave_09 Posted on 10/04/2008 23:17
Your Views on Conscription?

No i brought up the kiwis because some one mentioned world super power.

Borocelt Posted on 10/04/2008 23:24
Your Views on Conscription?

Well surely the original purpose of the post insinuates our society would be improved by an enforced national service?

My argument being Russia and China have enforced conscription.

The United States, Australia and incidently New Zealand do not. Where would you rather live?

ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 10/04/2008 23:26
Your Views on Conscription?

I don't have time to read all the posts on this thread, but anyhow here goes.

A few years ago, I was on a course with an ex squaddie. I asked him about National Service to take teenagers off the streets and put them on the straight and narrow. His view was that he wouldn't want these chav types anywhere near him, especially in a situation where his life might depend on them.

ayresomemark Posted on 10/04/2008 23:28
Your Views on Conscription?

Yes PTCFT thats is the general concensus of the military lads on here, however my point was have them in non combat roles.

It was a suggestion thats all.

mailinator Posted on 10/04/2008 23:29
Your Views on Conscription?

borocelt, the US have had conscription in the modern era - see Vietnam. Your list of countries who do and those who don't is pretty selective. Afghanistan does not have conscription, for example but Finland do. I know where I'd rather live.

Bren_MFC Posted on 10/04/2008 23:30
Your Views on Conscription?

Train them to respect others and give them some discipline, thats the key.

09_dave_09 Posted on 10/04/2008 23:31
Your Views on Conscription?

Its a minority of teens causing problems, if people are commiting crimes i thought we had a place for them?

Esekiel1517 Posted on 10/04/2008 23:31
Your Views on Conscription?

Agreed.

Borocelt Posted on 10/04/2008 23:35
Your Views on Conscription?

Respect and discipline can be taught in environments other than enforced military ones.

Also, the Vietnam war ended over 30 years ago. Come on, you're grasping at straws.

09_dave_09 Posted on 10/04/2008 23:39
Your Views on Conscription?

Prisons are full and there arent enough of them. A 9 year strech should mean just that and flimsy judges being soft on repeat offenders makes me sick.

mailinator Posted on 10/04/2008 23:40
Your Views on Conscription?

Grasping at straws? My point is that the US became a super-power in the 50s and 60s and yet still had conscription for the Vietnam war. That's pretty relevant in dismissing your claim that countries are only successful if they do not have conscription.

mailinator Posted on 10/04/2008 23:42
Your Views on Conscription?

dave, sorry to harp on but the judges can only dish out sentences that the law allows them to.

09_dave_09 Posted on 10/04/2008 23:44
Your Views on Conscription?

but often dont to the full extent, eg, suspended sentences and the like

mailinator Posted on 10/04/2008 23:46
Your Views on Conscription?

People rarely get suspended sentences for serious crimes though, ie no-one gets a 9 year suspended sentence, for example. By the way, if you think national service is no way to correct the delinquents, then prison isn't the answer either, surely?

Borocelt Posted on 10/04/2008 23:47
Your Views on Conscription?

What a nonsense argument. It isn't even remotely comparable to the modern era.

I'd suggest anyone who thinks this country is so bad goes and tries it somewhere else. Forget the sensationalist S***t in the papers, this is still ultimately one of the best places to live on the face of the planet.

Borocelt Posted on 10/04/2008 23:48
Your Views on Conscription?

Oh but you think turning convicted criminals into trained killers would be a good idea?

Fantastic.

mailinator Posted on 10/04/2008 23:48
Your Views on Conscription?

Your own argument is nonsense as I have already shown that there are countries that have conscription and those who do not and these countries don't follow you bizarre assertion at all.

09_dave_09 Posted on 10/04/2008 23:50
Your Views on Conscription?

prison for me should be a punishment and take them out of the circle of the law abiding public. But people who regularly steal or fight do get suspended sentances

Borocelt Posted on 10/04/2008 23:52
Your Views on Conscription?

So you disagree that the statement that the majority of the developed nations of the world do not enforce military service?

I'd argue it's no coincidence.

mailinator Posted on 10/04/2008 23:52
Your Views on Conscription?

Borocelt, I'm really confused if you are actually talking to me here but I don't endorse conscription at all, I just thought your logic 'proving' that there is a link between conscription and prosperity was statistically weak as P***.

09_dave_09 Posted on 10/04/2008 23:58
Your Views on Conscription?

Enjoyed a decent open conversation, Night all

ayresomemark Posted on 11/04/2008 00:05
Your Views on Conscription?

See you dave.

Thanks for your input.

Borocelt Posted on 11/04/2008 00:09
Your Views on Conscription?

Of course it isn't.

You've managed to come up with Finland. I'll raise you the Scandinavian states and Germany (where it can be refused anyway).

Considering the UK, France, the USA, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Holland, Belgium and Japan all do NOT enforce military service, with the exception of very few it reads a who is who of where I wouldn't mind living on this planet.

Compare it to the likes of China, Russia, Turkey, the vast majority of Sub Saharan Africa, most former eastern block states and impoverished latin America who DO enforce conscription, and I think I have a really good point.

So I would say it is statistically pretty strong actually. Positive exceptions are few and far between.

zaphod Posted on 11/04/2008 03:25
Your Views on Conscription?

Which countries in Sub-Saharan Africa have conscription? None of the ones I know.

ayresomemark Posted on 11/04/2008 09:29
Your Views on Conscription?

i can only think of Angola.

Snoop_Smog Posted on 11/04/2008 10:45
Your Views on Conscription?

Switzerland has enforced conscription. Cities within Switzerland regularly top the surveys of standards of living and contentment.

LemmyKilmister Posted on 11/04/2008 10:54
Your Views on Conscription?

As I said before It's a nice idea but it would be difficult to put into practice.
But as an aside, why should the regular lads have to pack in their current postings/drafts to go into a training establishment and knock these scruffy little bastads into something that resembles a normal human being?

THAT'S THE PARENTS JOB.

neilg Posted on 11/04/2008 10:59
Your Views on Conscription?

but lemmy - most sailors ARE "SCRUFFY LITTLE B******S", ...

LemmyKilmister Posted on 11/04/2008 11:05
Your Views on Conscription?

Cant argue with that.

PE22_9NP Posted on 11/04/2008 11:13
Your Views on Conscription?

I'm in the RAF (28 years service, 2 years left)- and it would be a complete disaster if National Service was re-introduced.

By all means create a new 'service', like on the Continent, to assist in civil matters (fire strikes, flood relief etc), but keep the military for volunteers. It's bad enough now with all the spoon-fed numpties who have joined up recently without having to cater for the ones who don't want to be in the mob.

We, in the RAF, have had too many 'initiatives' thrust upon us recently and something like this will be a final nail in the coffin.

pat_the_cat Posted on 11/04/2008 11:54
Your Views on Conscription?

Can't be arsed reading all previous.
Conscription is a case of closing the stable door after the horse has F***ed off. The problem lies with the parents and home life. This is where discipline starts or in the case of many where it does not exist. It is the parents that need sorting out not the kids.
By the way, can you buy Lambrini in Afghanistan?

neilg Posted on 11/04/2008 11:56
Your Views on Conscription?

you can get it in asda.

Bren_MFC Posted on 11/04/2008 11:56
Your Views on Conscription?

Too late to sort the parents out, it needs to start all over again with the kids, so the next generation after them will get the benefit.

pat_the_cat Posted on 11/04/2008 11:59
Your Views on Conscription?

Is there a Taliban Tesco?

neilg Posted on 11/04/2008 12:02
Your Views on Conscription?

theres an afghan asda and a b+q in basra = a bit busy at the min though!