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Billy69_uk Posted on 19/11/2011 21:01
yet again, Jason Steele

causes uncertainty, panic and stupid mistakes at the back.

5/10 must try harder.

reverb64 Posted on 19/11/2011 21:07
yet again, Jason Steele

agree , uncertain and lucky to get away with
it when he dropped the ball and they tucked
it away.

newyddion Posted on 19/11/2011 21:14
yet again, Jason Steele

[rle] FFS [:(!]

reverb64 Posted on 19/11/2011 21:17
yet again, Jason Steele

[rle]ffs -that what I said when he dropped it.

ricard19 Posted on 19/11/2011 21:22
yet again, Jason Steele

One good game v derby in 2 years does not a good keeper make.

arnold_judas_rimmer Posted on 19/11/2011 21:23
yet again, Jason Steele

That was a clear foul though.

Mogga_Return Posted on 19/11/2011 21:23
yet again, Jason Steele

Feck off your boring ![V]

Billy69_uk Posted on 19/11/2011 21:25
yet again, Jason Steele

at least 3 or 4 times today, a defender under pressure from a blackpool player looked for steel to come and collect the ball, each time he didnt and put his own defender under pressure resulting in stoopid mistakes.

reverb64 Posted on 19/11/2011 21:28
yet again, Jason Steele

yep , few times Batesy and Mick wanted him out .
No competition though.

Getye Posted on 19/11/2011 21:29
yet again, Jason Steele

Can't slate Steele mate. Everyone knows he's a local lad and the best keeper in the league......

reverb64 Posted on 19/11/2011 21:32
yet again, Jason Steele

[^]

japsterbor0 Posted on 19/11/2011 21:34
yet again, Jason Steele

COULDN'T SAVE A WORD DOCUMENT![:(]

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 19/11/2011 21:35
yet again, Jason Steele

Great thread. [^]

Billy69_uk Posted on 19/11/2011 21:35
yet again, Jason Steele

[:D]

billy_bigsworth Posted on 19/11/2011 21:35
yet again, Jason Steele

I assume the 5/10 refers to how many more goals we'd have conceeded if it hadn't been for some top keeping from steel in the games against derby, the saints, and watford.

If some of our fans were as quick to praise as they are to criticise I think we'd be in a much better state.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 19/11/2011 21:36
yet again, Jason Steele

"If some of our fans were as quick to praise as they are to criticise I think we'd be in a much better state."

[^]

reverb64 Posted on 19/11/2011 21:37
yet again, Jason Steele

as stated we can't , he's local , best keeper, etc , etc.


Billy69_uk Posted on 19/11/2011 21:37
yet again, Jason Steele

with Steele in goal, we will lose more points than we win.

FACT

billy_bigsworth Posted on 19/11/2011 21:45
yet again, Jason Steele

oh right if you say its "fact" it must be.

God forbid using some actual figures to support your argument.

bet you loved paul smith though? I'm right aren't I?

degsyspesh Posted on 19/11/2011 21:51
yet again, Jason Steele

Didn't go to the match (and no, I can't be ar5ed making up some horse shoite excuse why I didn't) so can't comment on him today.

BUT, I have seen him enough times to know that he is undoubtedly the weak link in the side. He may not be the weakest player individually, but as a goalkeeper you clearly can't get away with things like outfield players can.

He simply does not not command his area and makes the defence look extremely nervous. He could be the best shot stopper in the world but he's still like bambi on ice when it comes to controlling the defence. The difference that Smith and then Ikeme made when they came in was clear to all. The defence look composed, the midfield pushed up and we scored more goals and won more matches.

Steele may well become a very good keeper one day - but he needs to massively improve his presence because at the moment he is making Brad Jones look like Schmeichel.

skiprat Posted on 19/11/2011 22:15
yet again, Jason Steele

Smith let in more goals IIRC.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 19/11/2011 22:15
yet again, Jason Steele

"at the moment he is making Brad Jones look like Schmeichel."

Slight exaggeration there, I think.

degsyspesh Posted on 19/11/2011 22:20
yet again, Jason Steele

Exaggeration yes, but Jones was a far better keeper than Steele is showing at the moment...... he looks like a rabbit caught in the headlights.

Rishworthian Posted on 19/11/2011 22:22
yet again, Jason Steele

Steele is a good keeper. The idea that you cannot be bothered to attend the match and still describe his performance as poorer than Brad. Sorry that is out of order.

He is not perfect, agreed. Pears, who knows a thing or two about keeping reckons he has no weaknesses. I'll take his word for it.

I am not sure I totally agree but he is definitely a much better keeper than Smith. Ikeme maybe not so clear cut.

He had no chance with the first goal which had the defence at 6s and 7s because Tony Mac was caught out of position. The second goal was again from the defence being at 6s and 7s when the full back was passed by a winger who has then crossed the ball. Hence little he could do about the second either.

He's rough housed out of a ball deliberately for a disallowed goal and yet the forward is not booked. They were a cynical bunch as the tried kicking Emnes off the pitch early doors too

Sorry lads Steele is getting unneccessary stick. Joe Bennett has had many poor days this year but has had less stick for them than Steele. Joe had a good one today I hope that Steele makes some of you eat your words next week with a performance like Joes

degsyspesh Posted on 19/11/2011 22:28
yet again, Jason Steele

"The idea that you cannot be bothered to attend the match and still describe his performance as poorer than Brad. Sorry that is out of order"

Sorry, but that's b0ll0cks. I've seen him play at least 20 times and my opinion of him has never changed - at the moment he is out of his depth. Technically he could be the best keeper in the world, but if he hasn't got a presence on the pitch then he will not succeed.

What do you expect Pearsy to say? He said exactly the same about Jones and Turnbull.

Bennett is certainly a poorer player than Steele - but, as I said, outfield players can get away with it. Keepers can't.

billy_bigsworth Posted on 19/11/2011 22:35
yet again, Jason Steele

I'm not saying he's the best keeper in the legue, or even that I don't think he isn't rough round the edges.

but to come out with statements like, we'll lose more points than we'll win with steel in goal is quite frankly idiotic.

It seems if we conceed a couple of goals its steels falt, and if the defence plays crap again its steel's falt.

I think the lad from wolves was a good keeper and done well for us but didn't we draw 4 blanks with him in net?

I also can't quite get my head round how a keeper has such an effect on your attacking play, as has been suggested on here.

How anybody can criticise steel for not commanding his box, and then praise smith for it when he never got off his line is also beyond belief.



Brick_Tamland Posted on 19/11/2011 22:39
yet again, Jason Steele

We were better with Ikeme in the side.

big_boro_boy Posted on 19/11/2011 22:51
yet again, Jason Steele

One thing your forgetting is he is 21, still learning his trade and gaining confidence and experience from doing so. Smith, Ikeme etc have already been through the stage Steele is going through and have become the keepers they are because of it. Steele has played for England from u16-21 level, he has also captained the england team, which surely shows he can be commanding and has presence.

FrozenHorse Posted on 19/11/2011 22:59
yet again, Jason Steele

He made no errors today.
It was a clear foul: he had the ball in both hands and their guy ran into him. He might have held onto it but that's accademic.

If the defence or fans aren't confident with him in goal then that is their weakness, not his.

degsyspesh Posted on 19/11/2011 23:03
yet again, Jason Steele

"One thing your forgetting is he is 21"

I'm not forgetting that at all - i've said that he may well come good. He has a lot of good points to his game but equally has one very key weakness in terms of presence/composure etc. That is something that you would hope he would develop with age and experience. The problem is that he is being called on to be 1st choice keeper for a promotion seeking championship club before he is ready. He needs a couple of seasons out on loan at a lower league club where the pressure and expectations are less to develop his game.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 19/11/2011 23:08
yet again, Jason Steele

I think this thread just goes to show that it genuinely doesn't matter what Steele does for us. In the eyes of some people on here, it will ALWAYS be his fault when we don't pick-up three points of a match-day.

Very sad.

wiggler Posted on 19/11/2011 23:15
yet again, Jason Steele

He made no errors today.
It was a clear foul: he had the ball in both hands and their guy ran into him. He might have held onto it but that's accademic.

If the defence or fans aren't confident with him in goal then that is their weakness, not his.



Bollox i was in the north stand right near it and the guy would not have challenged him if he never let it bounce it may have been a foul i am not too sure but he does not help himself, in the 2nd half he would not come for anything our defence had no confidence, granted he had a good game against Derby but other than that he has been poor

degsyspesh Posted on 19/11/2011 23:15
yet again, Jason Steele

VAN - I'm not commenting on Steele today, like I said I wasn't there. Im commenting on him in general from what I have seen and as far as I'm concerned he is by far the weakest link in the team.

FrozenHorse Posted on 19/11/2011 23:38
yet again, Jason Steele

"Bollox i was in the north stand right near it and the guy would not have challenged him if he never let it bounce"

Irrelevant. He claimed the ball cleanly and decisivley. You are suggesting that it's his fault that the opponent decided to foul him? You wouldn't suggest a defender, midfielder or forward was to blame if they got fuld would you?

"in the 2nd half he would not come for anything "

Not true. Came out for several crosses and to the edge of his area to collect through-balls. Perhaps you couldn't see so well from the North stand? You should at least have been able to see his authoritative flying punch which cleared the ball for miles?

8_legs Posted on 20/11/2011 01:04
yet again, Jason Steele

He got a hand to the first goal. So he should have done a lot better regardless if it was deflected.

He's terrible. No command of his box, slow distribution, does not breed confidence to his defence. Just because he's a 'local lad' and come up through the youth ranks and is part of the new spirit of 86 XXXXXX you can't slag him off? XXXXXX. All this people saying he's only 21 or whatever and needs time to come good then should he really be playing?

Quite simply not good enough.

BeijingBoro Posted on 20/11/2011 03:47
yet again, Jason Steele

I have never known a player divide opinion as much as steele. I only go to about 3 or 4 games a year cos i live abroad and when i clicked on this thread i genuinely had no idea if it would be "yet again jason steele was XXXXXXe" or "yet again jason steele saved the day". it's a strange one...

OPEO Posted on 20/11/2011 05:12
yet again, Jason Steele

He's a young lad still learning his trade but there are some on here that never do anything wrong in life and came out of their mothers glory hole quoting Shakespear.[:D]

gravyboat Posted on 20/11/2011 09:33
yet again, Jason Steele

ANOTHER thread moaning about Steele after a game in which he did absolutely nothing wrong.

Anyone who thinks the challenge on him that led to the ball going in the net wasn't a foul needs to have a look at the rule book.

Boro fans just cannot stop moaning, even when there's nothing to moan about.

Portmid Posted on 20/11/2011 10:55
yet again, Jason Steele

Ikeme Played 10 Conceded 3
Steele Played 7 Conceded 9

That says it all. For me Steele has no command of the box, cannot direct defenders. I sit in North Stand and you could always hear Ikeme shouting at players. Never hear anything from Steele.

He flaps at crosses and is so indecisive that it causes the defence to be very shaky. I have to agree that he is the weak link.

Muttley Posted on 20/11/2011 11:08
yet again, Jason Steele

Well, here's something I didn't expect to read today... a scapegoat thread!

Who'd a thinked it, etc.

Dropped the ball! FFS. I've not even heard a Blackpool fan claim that wasn't a foul!

This is why commentators are used on TV because some people are too stupid to understand what they are seeing.

Jeez! All-AH! Budd-AH! etc.!

Rapid-Viagra Posted on 20/11/2011 11:10
yet again, Jason Steele

Being a goalkeeper myself i think he should have saved the first one if he got 2 strong hands to it instead of diving with one

FrozenHorse Posted on 20/11/2011 11:11
yet again, Jason Steele

"Ikeme Played 10 Conceded 3
Steele Played 7 Conceded 9"

I accept you may not rate Steele, but let's not resort to deceit to prove a point eh? Thos stats should read:

Ikeme played 10 conceded 5
Steele played 7 conceded 9

They still favour Ikeme of course, but doctoring them to portray Steele in a bad light is symptomatic of the hate-campaign that he is up against.

Billy69_uk Posted on 20/11/2011 11:16
yet again, Jason Steele

its not a hate campaign.

most people would like nothing more than to see a local lad playing well and representing the team.

however that is not what we are seeing. He is not playing well on the whole.

but as he is a local lad, you probably cant see that for your rose tinted specs.

anyway, this thread wasnt about his performance as such, rather the effect his performance has on the rest of the defenders who inexplicably react to him in a series of bewildering decisions and mistakes.

just saying.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 20/11/2011 11:21
yet again, Jason Steele

criticism = hate campaign

[:D]




FrozenHorse Posted on 20/11/2011 11:22
yet again, Jason Steele

"its not a hate campaign"

I realise it wasn't you Billy, but how would you account for invented statistics that portray Steele in a bad light? That steps over the line from "criticism" IMHO.

"this thread wasnt about his performance as such, rather the effect his performance has on the rest of the defenders who inexplicably react to him in a series of bewildering decisions and mistakes."

Then that is the defender's fault isn't it? If he doesn't give individual fans confidence, those individual fans need to grow a pair.

"He is not playing well on the whole"

I have to disagree with this. At times he's been very good, at other times, such as yesterday, he was decent.

Billy69_uk Posted on 20/11/2011 11:25
yet again, Jason Steele

I disagree FH

defenders need confidence in the keeper, confidence that when (or in the case of yesterday IF) he comes for a ball he is going to get it 100% man and all.

he did make a good punch clearance yesterday, but I am not a lover of keepers punching the ball, but thats not his fault[B)]

Adi_Dem Posted on 20/11/2011 11:25
yet again, Jason Steele

It seems to be yet another game in which Steele is criticised without, in reality, having done much wrong.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 20/11/2011 11:27
yet again, Jason Steele

I was at the game against Derby where he made some wonderful saves, but I have to say, the defence doesn't look steady with him behind it.

He made 3 or 4 outstanding saves, was saved by the woodwork four times and they missed at least a couple of other clear cut chances.


degsyspesh Posted on 20/11/2011 11:30
yet again, Jason Steele

Out of interest, what are the goals scored stats with ikeme in goal compared to Steele?

reverb64 Posted on 20/11/2011 11:33
yet again, Jason Steele

He does'nt command the box .
He has no competition .
We were better with Ikeme in the goals.

Billy69_uk Posted on 20/11/2011 11:35
yet again, Jason Steele

and he is only 21, but already has a Prince William-esque baldy napper.

proper Teeside

Julios_Hairband Posted on 20/11/2011 11:38
yet again, Jason Steele

"Anyone who thinks the challenge on him that led to the ball going in the net wasn't a foul needs to have a look at the rule book. "

Agreed, and I possibly would have had that down as a yellow as well as it wasn't an attempt to win the ball, solely aimed at taking out Steele.

FrozenHorse Posted on 20/11/2011 11:39
yet again, Jason Steele

"confidence that when (or in the case of yesterday IF) he comes for a ball he is going to get it 100% man and all."

Yet he came every time it was reasonable yesterday and got the ball every time he came.

I think I know the instance that you're referring to though: when the ball was trickling through to the edge of our area and he came out at the last minute to claim it.

I put it to you that he actually did the right thing.

He shouldn't have come out of his area as McManus was in a position to clear the ball anyway.

He shouldn't, in that circumstance come out to the edge of his penalty area and wait for the ball to arrive before picking it up. If he does and their man manages to get a foot to the ball before it enters the area, he's in big trouble.

Instead he came out as the ball entered the area ensuring that a) he came out with momentum and b) there was no chance of the striker nipping in and embarrasing him.

This incident did seem to alarm some in the crowd, but I think Steele made the right call. That he effectively dealt with the danger is beyond doubt.

Adi_Dem Posted on 20/11/2011 11:56
yet again, Jason Steele

Exactly right FrozenHorse. I could see nothing to criticise him for yesterday.

JimmyFloydPiggybank Posted on 20/11/2011 13:20
yet again, Jason Steele

i think a keeper peaks in his late 20s a in a few years he will be 7/10 every game but prefer a Paul Smith every day

bill_door Posted on 20/11/2011 15:18
yet again, Jason Steele

Good thread this.

Mainly because it shows that my decision not to come on here last night and ruin my good mood was correct.[^]

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 20/11/2011 17:01
yet again, Jason Steele

I cant believe some people see reason to criticise him for his performance yesterday, it really does beggar belief.

Cretinous, thats the only word I can think of to describe it.

degsyspesh Posted on 20/11/2011 20:49
yet again, Jason Steele

Not commenting on yesterday, but if you compare the stats for the first ten games of the season with Ikeme in goal against the last 7 games with Steele in goal it doesn't make good reading:

With Ikeme in goal - 10 games played, 14 goals scored, 5 conceded, 20 points.

= per game:

Goals scored = 1.4
Goals conceded = 0.5
Points won = 2.0


With Steele in goal - 7 games played, 9 goals scored, 9 conceded, 11 points

= per game:

Goals scored = 1.3
Goals conceded = 1.3
Points won = 1.6

Steele is a young lad and hopefully one day he will come good, but at the moment he is undoubtedly the weak link in the team.

Muttley Posted on 20/11/2011 20:55
yet again, Jason Steele

Simplistic shight.

But carry on because it obviously isn't a vendetta against a young lad. Ikeme IS NOT our player. We can't play him even if we wanted to. We probably can't afford him. Same for Paul Smith.

It's pitifully obvious that a great number of people on here wouldn't know a decent keeper if he was stood in front of them wearing a "I'm Officially The Best Goalkeeper In The World" t-shirt.

degsyspesh Posted on 20/11/2011 20:56
yet again, Jason Steele

[:o)]

Just because somebody stands in front of you wearing a t shirt saying that he's the best keeper in the world doesn't mean he is.

I's not sure how you can say it's simplistic shoite. I'm using Ikeme as a comparison, nothing more. Ikeme is no great keeper - he can't get near a poor Wolves team and teh best loan he could get on leaving us is Doncaster. The point I'm making is that he was head and shoulders above Steele's current level of performance. With Ikeme in goal we scored more, we conceded far far less and more importantly we took significantly more points per game.

It was also blindingly obvious for anyone watching that the team played with much more assurance with Ikeme in goal.

bill_door Posted on 20/11/2011 21:17
yet again, Jason Steele

You don't think we played with assurance yesterday? Or Doncaster? Or Derby?

The goals dried up before Ikeme left and our style of play changed a little too, like at Forest where our attacking play was non-existent and Southampton when we were outclassed?

Steele has done precisely nothing wrong since he came back, and he's done plenty of things right.

Muttley Posted on 20/11/2011 21:20
yet again, Jason Steele

"With Ikeme in goal we scored more, we conceded far far less and more importantly we took significantly more points per game."

[:o)]

Simplistic shight.

Are you telling me there were no other factors in those results?

Opposition?

Injuries to key players?

Suspensions to players?

Key players flying half way round the world to play in International Games?

None of these things had a bearing on the results, it was ALL down to Ikeme between the sticks?

gravyboat Posted on 20/11/2011 21:26
yet again, Jason Steele

'The point I'm making is that he was head and shoulders above Steele's current level of performance'

Absolute rubbish.

Those stats are all very well, but they simply don't tell the full story.

Steele was involved in a terrible team performance at Forest when Mogga went too defensive with his tactics, and then a heavy defeat at Southampton when Bates and Williams were woeful.

And please don't suggest their performances that day were due to being uncomfortable with Steele. The idea that two of the best centre-halfs in this division suddenly perform like pub players because there's a different bloke in goal is far-fetched twaddle used to fit a particular view-point.

Steele has been absolutely fine since he came back into the side, and has produced the goalkeeping performance of the season so far from any Boro keeper.

billy_bigsworth Posted on 20/11/2011 21:38
yet again, Jason Steele

I've quite simply gave up on this thread.

how somebody can start comparing goals scored, conceeded, and results and then say the disparigy in those results is down to one man is just phucking mental.

I wish the west stand had been on fire when you refused to move then you wouldn't post this pigs swill on here!

Billy69_uk Posted on 20/11/2011 21:43
yet again, Jason Steele

"absolutely fine"

something a professional athlete yearns to hear from his critics or his peers.

just about sums it up.

hence the 5/10


viv_andersons_nana Posted on 20/11/2011 21:45
yet again, Jason Steele

"Steele has done precisely nothing wrong since he came back, and he's done plenty of things right."

[^]

degsyspesh Posted on 20/11/2011 21:45
yet again, Jason Steele

"Steele has been absolutely fine" Indeed he has - he has been FINE, not good - just fine.

The team in general and the defence in particular looked far more comfortable and solid with Ikeme in goal, just as we did with Smith last season.

I'm not talking about individual games, I'm talking about 17 games (and if I could be ar5ed I'd go back the the second half of last season and compare the stats of Steele vs Smith which I would guess paint a very similar picture).

All you have to do is watch McManus and Bates during a game to see how much confidence they have in him (which in itself does very little to help his confidence).

He has a lot of good attributes, but he is still extremely young for a keeper and in an ideal world we wouldn't be relying on him at this stage of his career in a promotion seeking team.

ghostfox Posted on 20/11/2011 21:57
yet again, Jason Steele

I'd rather see pears between the sticks, even at 40 whatever he'd bring more confidence in the back 4

Steel is without doubt the weak link at the back

mitch_at_merseyside Posted on 20/11/2011 22:08
yet again, Jason Steele

FFS is the lad not entitled to his opinion?

I think we've all seen (that's if you do go to the games) enough of Jason Steele by now to give a good enough verdict on the boy.

My opinion is simply that he should not be in the team at present, I for one would prefer a much more experienced and better all round goalkeeper between the sticks at this current moment in time.

You can argue all you want about specific saves or moments Steele has impressed us but the bottom line is we concede more with him in the net. Now you can look at each individual goal and assess Steele's positioning and effort but there is more to a goalkeeper than that, the keeper HAS to be vocal and create a sense of order and confidence for the backline - sadly which I think we miss with him.

"He has a lot of good attributes, but he is still extremely young for a keeper and in an ideal world we wouldn't be relying on him at this stage of his career in a promotion seeking team. "

I couldn't agree more, he has the potential to be a good goalkeeper but at the minute I want a good experienced goalkeeper in the net who's attributes are better. Some people were even picky on Mark Schwarzer ffs but after having Jones, Turnbull, Steele and Coyne can we really class them as 'above average' goalkeepers? probably not.

We all know Boro fans love a good moan, and actually I rarely ever do [:D] but I think with this current situation a large proportion obviously seem uneasy on Steele and I think that should give you an indication within itself of what Steele is like as a keeper for us. He's too young and needs further development, there are cracking goalkeepers out there at give or take a similar age who are just better all round goalkeepers I'm afraid.

But stop wrapping the lad up in cotton wool because he's a local lad and act if he doesn't deserve criticism, I don't care if it's a 37 year old Danny Coyne or a 21 year old Jason Steele, if something doesn't seem right I'll say it.

bill_door Posted on 20/11/2011 22:30
yet again, Jason Steele

I don't think a large proportion of fans are uneasy with Steele in goal, I think it's more a vocal minority (on this board) who come out with the same stuff every time we concede.

We conceded more with Smith in goal than with Steele, which isn't bad seeing as how woeful we were under Strachan.

We started this season superbly and naturally enough, have had a dip which started before Ikeme left.

We've lost two games this season - Forest when our tactics were wrong and Southampton when we just got pummelled. Hardly cause for concern having Steele back.

Out of interest, in your opinion who are the cracking goalkeepers of a similar age who are better all round keepers?

FrozenHorse Posted on 20/11/2011 22:32
yet again, Jason Steele

""absolutely fine"

something a professional athlete yearns to hear from his critics or his peers.

just about sums it up.

hence the 5/10"

Does this all come down to semantics? 5/10 is, IMHO, below average. "Absolutely fine" is a step above "ok" and, therefore, 7/10.

mitch_at_merseyside Posted on 20/11/2011 22:58
yet again, Jason Steele

Well bill_door, I understand that members of this board, the Facebook official fan page and friends and family in addition with those around me at the games do seem to have a sense of nervousness with Steele in goal.

Now whilst on the other hand that isn't actually the 'large proportion' I was referring to, it still represents the sense of uneasy feelings I earlier described.

As for goalkeepers who I think are miles better both slightly above and below his age range are Tim Krul, De Gea, Scott Loach, Szczęsny, Alex Smithies.

But just because Steele in 21, people have the belief that in 6 years time or so he is somehow going to become some kind of world beater, maybe not you personally but I don't buy into the hype some have around him.

As stated, I would just like to see a solid safe pair of hands in goal for us, Ikeme was no Manuel Neuer but I thought we looked solid as a rock at the back with him back there, something I don't think we possess now, still Pears and Mowbray clearly see something about the lad so who am I to try to run the rule but just from experience of games I've seen him play I just don't think it's a wise move.

He seems like a cracking bloke and I just as much as anybody else hopes come May he proves to be a key figure in a promotion winning team, we could win a cup final 5-1 and somebody would still complain with the goal we conceded and blame it on Steele but on a serious note at least respect my opinion.

FrozenHorse Posted on 20/11/2011 23:07
yet again, Jason Steele

"Well bill_door, I understand that members of this board, the Facebook official fan page and friends and family in addition with those around me at the games do seem to have a sense of nervousness with Steele in goal.

Now whilst on the other hand that isn't actually the 'large proportion' I was referring to, it still represents the sense of uneasy feelings I earlier described."

The only way these "uneasy feelings" will go away is by Steele playing in the first team. How else is he to convince these fans that he's good enough? reserve football? On loan in the 2nd division? No, whether it is now or in five years time, the only way the fans will gain confidence in Steele is by seeing him perform week-in week-out. As it stands, he has a poor reputation amongst some (rightly or wrongly), and they judge him on that, not on what he's actually doing right now.

mitch_at_merseyside Posted on 20/11/2011 23:21
yet again, Jason Steele

Let me break it down.

Would you much rather have Ikeme, in which our defence looked a lot more solid and conceded less.

Or Steele, who yes has many years on his hands but looking at the stats we tend to concede on average more and has divided the fans.

Like I said, I am sure Steele will be a good goalkeeper in the future but this is a results based industry and with Ikeme in the team we picked up better results.

Now Ikeme isn't with us, he's the past and we have to get over it whether we like it or not but seriously if you had to choose between the two who would you choose?

I just don't think we're tight enough with him in the net and I don't want the confidence and solidity to go and therefore jeopardise our healthy league position.

bill_door Posted on 20/11/2011 23:27
yet again, Jason Steele

mitch - I do respect your opinion, I don't respect the opinion of people whose thoughts extends little beyond 'I decided he was rubbish a year ago and I'm sticking with it forever'.

I think Steele, Loach and Fielding are on a similar level right now. Even the keepers you mentioned though, Krul and Szczesny, especially the latter, were deemed an 'unsafe' when they first played for Newcastle and Arsenal. Given a chance and given time, they both look pretty good right now. I'm not saying Steele is going to be one of the best keepers in the country but I personally think he's going to have a much better career than say, Jones or Turnbull. As FH says above, the only way he's going to become experienced and also show doubters that he's worth his place, is by playing in this team. He isn't making blunders, he hasn't cost us any points. He's kept us in games which is something Ikeme didn't really have to do because we were playing so well everywhere else.

Time will tell anyway and Mowbray's going to keep picking him so we'll just have to watch.[^]

FrozenHorse Posted on 20/11/2011 23:30
yet again, Jason Steele

I understand what you are saying, I just think you are wrong.

I think we have to go through this bedding-in stage with Steele.

OK we've conceded more goals with Steele, but we've not been conceding that many. Leeds, Cardiff, Blackpool & Derby have conceded goals at a similar rate over the season as we have with Steele in goal and they're all in the top half. He's hardly out of his depth is he?

Ikeme's record was excellent but taken over too small a sample of games to be statistically significant. Do you think we'd have kept on conceding at a rate of one every other game if he's satyed? No one in this league defends that well.

Steele is a good young talent. He's doing a good job at the moment and, for him to develop, he needs to play. For the fans to get over their uncertainty, he needs to play here.

trog64 Posted on 21/11/2011 10:35
yet again, Jason Steele

The 2 key points to being a good keeper IMO is the ability to give confidence to your defence and come up with those occasional 'match winning saves'.

Steele, perhaps because of his inexperience,does not exude confidence and the only 'match winning saves' I can recall were against Derby. Most attempts on target against us end up in the net, as they did on Saturday. Three attempts on target, 3 goals, albeit one disallowed, in a game that we dominated. This was also synonamous with last season.

I would have thought that goalkeeper position was one the most important in the side and whenever a replacement has come in, the improvement at the back is visable and statistically proven.

I would like to think that Mowbray is working on this area as it could cost us dear.

skiprat Posted on 21/11/2011 11:10
yet again, Jason Steele

No idea why this thread is so popular.

Steele certainly didn't lose us points on Saturday.

If I was going to blame anyone I'd be looking at the forward line and Robson's pitiful miss when he hammered the ball rather than side footing it, once he'd already done all the hard work.

bear66 Posted on 21/11/2011 11:16
yet again, Jason Steele

The Blackpool keeper won them a point. Making unexpected saves is the norm for most of the keepers at the Riverside. Steele brought off at least three amazing saves versus Derby but I don't recall many others and certainly not as many as opposition keepers seem to bring off.

HotshotMFC Posted on 21/11/2011 11:31
yet again, Jason Steele

We all know and Mogga knows that Ikeme was a much better keeper than Steele(certainly at the moment)but it all comes down to hard cash.
It will be a pity if not having a commanding figure in the box costs Boro.[sad]

rob_fmttm Posted on 21/11/2011 12:40
yet again, Jason Steele

Hotshot - we do not know that at all. He has never said or implied anything of the kind.

Steele was not at fault for the goals and has played really well since coming back from injury - could become a top, top Premier keeper. Personally, I'd like that to be with Boro.

Jdub Posted on 21/11/2011 12:45
yet again, Jason Steele

Ever since Ikeme went our chances of going up dropped dramatically,now it's lessening with each game with that clown in goal , and don't tell me I'm wrong I go to all home games and you can hear people tslking about it,it is fact when Steele was playing last season we were rubbish,paul smith came in we went on a crazy unbeaten run FACT!!!!,get Steele out or suffer,
Bye bye now!

Adi_Dem Posted on 21/11/2011 12:47
yet again, Jason Steele

Our fans have a good track record when it comes to keepers of course. Many didn't rate Schwarzer as I recall.

We hit a bad run of fomr in the recent past. That was always going to happen. Our early season form was, for me, unsustainable. To suggest that Steele has caused it is incredible in my view.

There are no bad games or bad errors that stick out for me, nothing where I've thought the defence looks in any way diminished simply because of Steele being there. In fact, the only thing that really sticks in the mind is the remarkable performance he put in against Derby (was it Derby?).

Steele did nothing wrong yesterday. Nothing.

ovy1 Posted on 21/11/2011 12:47
yet again, Jason Steele

On par with Ben Roberts!

Billy69_uk Posted on 21/11/2011 12:53
yet again, Jason Steele

IF (and its a massive IF) we get promoted at the end of the season, how would he do in the prem?

he would get destroyed is how he would do.

trog64 Posted on 21/11/2011 12:58
yet again, Jason Steele

Would you feel confident with him between the sticks in a play off final ?

rob_fmttm Posted on 21/11/2011 13:00
yet again, Jason Steele

Yes I would.
And I can't believe Boro fans would actually want to campaign in this way to undermine their last line of defence - makes no sense.

bear66 Posted on 21/11/2011 13:01
yet again, Jason Steele

"Steele did nothing wrong yesterday. Nothing."

Ask the centre backs who waited an eternity whilst shepherding the ball back to him. He wouldn't be playing at this level without some strengths but he has many weaknesses

Strengths : Kicking (in-play and set pieces)
and . . . err

Weaknesses : Coming out for the ball
Command of the box (set pieces and low and high crosses)


A pleasant surprise when the ball doesn't go in the net (not sure if that is a weakness or a strength)


trog64 Posted on 21/11/2011 13:11
yet again, Jason Steele

I wouldn't say it was a campign Rob, just a few people expressing their opinions which I believed is what this board was for.


rob_fmttm Posted on 21/11/2011 13:17
yet again, Jason Steele

I don't see what can be achieved other than to help Peterborough next week.

trog64 Posted on 21/11/2011 13:24
yet again, Jason Steele

Then maybe nobody should use this board unless they have something positive to say.

Nothing can really be 'achieved' by what anybody posts on here. It is merely a bit of football banter between fans with honest opinions, some of which do not have rose tinted specs.

Adi_Dem Posted on 21/11/2011 13:26
yet again, Jason Steele

bear66 - he made the right decision every time as far as I could see. Discretion is the better part of valour. I'd much rather he size up a situation than run out of his goal like a headless chicken.

bill_door Posted on 21/11/2011 13:39
yet again, Jason Steele

"it is fact when Steele was playing last season we were rubbish,paul smith came in we went on a crazy unbeaten run FACT!!!!,"

No, it's a fact that under Strachan we were rubbish and initially under Mowbray we only got better slowly.

Smith had worse stats than Steele despite the team playing much better at the end of the season.

FACT!!!!


bear66 Posted on 21/11/2011 15:24
yet again, Jason Steele

Adi_Dem - as I said, ask the centre backs . . . . . . particularly in the first half, it looked as if he took an age to decide whether to come out by which time it was too late or, in deed, he put himself in harms way for no reason.

Humpty Posted on 21/11/2011 15:39
yet again, Jason Steele

Talk about searching for a scapegoat. There is absolutely no basis for criticism of Steele this season. End of thread.

HotshotMFC Posted on 21/11/2011 16:16
yet again, Jason Steele

I respect your judgement ROB but I believe that Mogga would rather have the commanding keeper who kept 5 clean sheets in a row before he had to leave. Obviously MOGGA could not say that.

I also don't think that these comments would help Peterboro.They can see for themselves on the BBC website.

degsyspesh Posted on 21/11/2011 17:11
yet again, Jason Steele

As I posted earlier on this thread, all you have to do is watch Bates and McManus and the looks etc that they give Steele and it is clear that they are not always comfortable with him playing behind them. There is a constant air of uncertainty,

It is however clear that the financial restrictions at the club mean that there are no plans to bring in a new keeper and so, as fans, we just have to be patient and hope that Steele will overcome the weaknesses in his game and develop into a very good keeper.

Humpty Posted on 21/11/2011 17:50
yet again, Jason Steele

I think that's a load of rubbish personally.

FrozenHorse Posted on 21/11/2011 17:53
yet again, Jason Steele

"Ask the centre backs who waited an eternity whilst shepherding the ball back to him. "

"all you have to do is watch Bates and McManus and the looks etc that they give Steele and it is clear that they are not always comfortable with him playing behind them."

As I argued earlier in the thread, Steele did exactly the right thing in these occasions:

"I think I know the instance that you're referring to though: when the ball was trickling through to the edge of our area and he came out at the last minute to claim it.

"I put it to you that he actually did the right thing.

He shouldn't have come out of his area as McManus was in a position to clear the ball anyway.

He shouldn't, in that circumstance come out to the edge of his penalty area and wait for the ball to arrive before picking it up. If he does and their man manages to get a foot to the ball before it enters the area, he's in big trouble.

Instead he came out as the ball entered the area ensuring that a) he came out with momentum and b) there was no chance of the striker nipping in and embarrasing him."

Now it seems to me that, were McManus in the least uncomfortable with what Steele did in this circumstance, he'd simply have put the ball into row Z. He didn't. The more sections of our crowd wo don't understand goalkeeping were nervous about it, but let's not pretend Steele's team mates shared in that.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 21/11/2011 18:08
yet again, Jason Steele

If in doubt, welly it out. Don't wait around to see what the 'keeper is doing, just do what you're told when you're about six years-old.

Can't believe this thread is still running to be honest. Steele has done nothing wrong since returning to the side and has put some very good performances in. The criticism of him is, to be frank, completely ridiculous.

FrozenHorse Posted on 21/11/2011 18:12
yet again, Jason Steele

"If in doubt, welly it out. Don't wait around to see what the 'keeper is doing, just do what you're told when you're about six years-old."

Exactly Viv; McManus wasn't anxious and what Steele did was good goalkeeping.


Adi_Dem Posted on 21/11/2011 18:18
yet again, Jason Steele

If the argument is down to 'asking the centre halves' or the 'looks' they gave Steele then I think it's on pretty weak ground.

The fact that many fans got over excited about it isn't relevant. The fact is he collected the ball comfortably on every occasion, the defenders let him do so and no problems were caused.

As I've said a few times, there isn't anything to criticise the lad for.

mitch_at_merseyside Posted on 21/11/2011 18:22
yet again, Jason Steele

Viv I don't think it's a direct critisism at Jason Steele, I just think that people would much prefer to see an experienced lad in the net.

There is no doubt that Steele will become a good goalkeeper but I just think we should really consider this carefully rather than shotting the young boy in there and expecting him to grow as each game goes on.

Like I said, there is more to a goalkeeper than just 'saves' I think the defence's confidence has been effected, this will change if we keep clean sheets and look a lot more mean at the back, sadly which we aren't at the minute.

But to suggest that 'the early defensive form was never going to continue' is ridiculous, how on earth could you justify that, in fact I actually think even the goals Ikeme did concede had been either freaky or left him completley hopeless.

I don't know what the financial situation is like at the club but I would be tempted to look at one or two goalkeepers on trial and see if they would provide excellent competition.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 21/11/2011 18:36
yet again, Jason Steele

"I just think that people would much prefer to see an experienced lad in the net."

Even when the current goalkeeper has done NOTHING wrong? That just doesn't make sense. Then again, none of the criticism being flung in Steele's direction makes sense.

Any money we have available for January would be wasted if spent on another 'keeper. We need a bit of pace out wide, first and foremost(in my opinion), some cover at left-back/left-midfield and perhaps a striker.

We don't need another goalkeeper.

mitch_at_merseyside Posted on 21/11/2011 18:49
yet again, Jason Steele

Right, I'll try again.

Deep down do you seriously think the defence feel just as comfortable with Steele in the net than Ikeme?

Even if you marginally think there is little difference you cannot escape the fact it has had an effect on our defence's confidence.

FFS I like Jason Steele, really I do, when I see his interviews and from what I've also gathered he seems like a quality lad who has a good future ahead of himself and the club means a lot too him to.

What if something happens to Steele? Do you really think Connor Ripley can come in and do a job?

We really need a solid, commanding, trustworthy lad in the net, Steele's time will come I just don't think it's now.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 21/11/2011 18:58
yet again, Jason Steele

I think Danny Coyne could come in and 'do a job' for us should Steele miss a game or two through injury.

Do I think the defence feel comfortable with Steele in goal? Yes, I do. If they didn't then Mowbray, who works with the players every day, wouldn't be picking him.

Do you think Mowbray would compromise the well-being of the team by picking a young goalkeeper through sheer stubbornness? Because I don't.

Steele is good enough. He has proved that since returning from injury.

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 21/11/2011 19:47
yet again, Jason Steele

Ikeme played a lot of games behind a back 5, rather than a back 4.

We may have conceded more recently, but i bet we've scored more too.

degsyspesh Posted on 21/11/2011 19:48
yet again, Jason Steele

a little less actually.

markw_21 Posted on 21/11/2011 19:50
yet again, Jason Steele

That's just it though, the defence do not look confident with Steele behind them, it's his inexperience; he doesn't command his box; he hesitates etc...

He has got potential but I'm afraid there is no way we can be considered seriously for promotion, the best thing would be to use him as a no.2 and bring in experience...

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 21/11/2011 19:54
yet again, Jason Steele

"a little less actually"

Well that clears that up beyond any reasonable doubt [8)]

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 21/11/2011 19:57
yet again, Jason Steele

Ikeme has played just ten to fifteen more senior games than Steele has. So this 'experience' thing is, with regards to those two, absolute nonsense.

If he was making mistakes regularly then I could understand fans voicing their concerns about him. The fact is, though, that he ISN'T making mistakes, and HASN'T made any mistakes since returning to the side.

Indeed, the problems we have lie at the other end of the pitch. We don't kill teams off when we have chance to. We don't take enough of our chances and that is a much bigger worry than the goalkeeping position is.

outmac Posted on 21/11/2011 19:58
yet again, Jason Steele

Mark21's right Viv.
Cofidence / Competition.

Have seen every game apart from Walsall
but that was Coyne anyway and we looked
a far more confident side with Ikeme in
the goals.

bill_door Posted on 21/11/2011 19:59
yet again, Jason Steele

We stopped scoring goals when Ikeme when was in the team (remember the three 0-0's in a row?) but the fact that our form dipped before Steele returned doesn't quite fit.

You really wouldn't think we have the best defensive record in the league after 17 games.

degsyspesh Posted on 21/11/2011 20:16
yet again, Jason Steele

"(remember the three 0-0's in a row?)"

Indeed I do. That's Ikeme for you - 10 games, 6 clean sheets.

Stele, 7 games, 2 clean sheets.

Is that all down to the keeper? Absolutely not. Does the keeper have a significant influence on it? Clearly.

bill_door Posted on 21/11/2011 20:22
yet again, Jason Steele

Can you remember a game where Ikeme had a blinder? And for Steele?

Point is, we started this season in superb form and then dropped off, Ikeme benefitted from that. As Viv rightly points out, the problem has been not finishing games off and that started before the change in keeper.

Whatever way you want to look at it - no team in this division has conceded less goals than Boro and our current keeper hasn't dropped any blobs in his seven games. Where's the problem?

degsyspesh Posted on 21/11/2011 20:28
yet again, Jason Steele

Foe me the debate is not about whether Ikeme or Steele played a blinder, it is how comfortable the team looks with each keeper between the sticks and the shape and balance of the team.

With Ikeme in goal the defence was confident and that allowed the midfield to push forward and support the attack. Too often with Steele in goal the defence looks nervous, the midfield drop back and the forwards become isolated.

I agree that, in general, Steele hasn't done anything wrong - but equally I think that some people are deliberately looking beyond the obvious flaws in his game.

Humpty Posted on 21/11/2011 20:34
yet again, Jason Steele

This is ridiculous.

bill_door Posted on 21/11/2011 20:37
yet again, Jason Steele

Fair enough, all just opinions.

Personally I don't see it, I've seen us look confident with Steele in goal, I also think we looked shaky at times under Ikeme - the first time I noticed us looking a bit less confident was the first half at Reading when they cut us apart a number of times. In the last fifteen minutes we should have buried them and we looked a bit more tentative from that game on, until the last couple of games when I think we're looking confident again.[^]

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 21/11/2011 20:57
yet again, Jason Steele

As Jonny pointed out a little earlier on in the thread, we were playing a different system(for the most part) when Ikeme was here. 3-5-2/5-3-2 really suited us. We looked a much more solid unit. Mogga started to chop and change things a bit and our form dipped a little because of that.

Now things have settled back down again in terms of the systems used and players selected, we've picked-up again, we've seemingly rediscovered our scoring touch(or, at least, we've started to create chances again) and we're putting points on the board(not that we really ever stopped putting points on the board anyway).

Rhys Williams going into midfield of late has meant we're more likely to concede yet more likely to score. The moving of Williams out of defence and further up the pitch is a point some people on here seem to be conveniently ignoring when attempting to have a go at Steele for, erm, well, nothing in particular.

mitch_at_merseyside Posted on 21/11/2011 21:08
yet again, Jason Steele

"We stopped scoring goals when Ikeme when was in the team (remember the three 0-0's in a row?) but the fact that our form dipped before Steele returned doesn't quite fit."

What the hell has that got to do with anything? If anything Ikeme was a quicker distributor and encouraged the lads to push on if you actually looked at him hard enough.

Sorry but I'm not buying into this, the fact is the defence looks nowhere near assured as they did when Ikeme was in the team. Like I said time and time again there is more to a goalkeeper than just the 'saves' judge all you want saying he had no chance with the goals he conceded or whatever but the relationship between the backline and keeper is vital and I think the players don't feel the same as they once did.

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 21/11/2011 21:12
yet again, Jason Steele

"What the hell has that got to do with anything"

At the risk of stating the obvious teams who score more also, as a rule, concede more and vice versa.

mitch_at_merseyside Posted on 21/11/2011 21:15
yet again, Jason Steele

No I just think we went through a bit of a dry patch upfront but we always had that tightness at the back.

Now we seem to be clicking a bit more upfront but at the back lost that solidity.

degsyspesh Posted on 21/11/2011 21:16
yet again, Jason Steele

"At the risk of stating the obvious teams who score more also, as a rule, concede more and vice versa."

Err, I'm not sure that is obvious, either in general of for this debate specifically.

Under Ikeme we scored more and conceded far less than we have done with Steele.

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 21/11/2011 21:18
yet again, Jason Steele

If thats not obvious you are watching the wrong sport.

We played a number of games with 5 at the back and we struggled to score goals ultimately, switching back to a 4.

mitch_at_merseyside Posted on 21/11/2011 21:25
yet again, Jason Steele

No we never struggled, it was down to poor finishing mainly and the lack of that creative spark.

Reading and Coventry in particular stand out, dominated much of the game and should have won the game, rather convincingly too.

Scoring goals I believed would never be an issue, it was just the fear of a dry patch, which we had briefly. With the tightness at the back we always had an excellent chance to win games, no however I don't really share that confidence.

FrozenHorse Posted on 21/11/2011 21:27
yet again, Jason Steele

Does anyone think 10 appearences is a big enough sample to be statistically significant? I don't.

Ikeme's a good keeper, fair enough, and he did well for us, but there is no way he, or anyone else, could have maintained his average of 1 goal conceded every 2 games in this division for any real length of time.

As such, it's a meaningless comparrison.

bill_door Posted on 21/11/2011 21:27
yet again, Jason Steele

Yes and the point is that we scored more and conceded less because we took the game to our opponents and our attacking play was superb. We took the pressure off ourselves through our style of play.

That dried up, as it was always going to do at some point. The correlation isn't with Steele's return as it started before that. Put Ikeme in the team for the last seven games and I don't think the results would have been any different.

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 21/11/2011 21:31
yet again, Jason Steele

"No we never struggled, it was down to poor finishing mainly and the lack of that creative spark"

You mean the period when we struggled to score goals then [:D]

mitch_at_merseyside Posted on 21/11/2011 21:41
yet again, Jason Steele

We were always capable of scoring goals, just look at the records since the new year. Poor finishing especially by McDonald had effected us, we would easily have more points on the board if he started firing earlier but more goals I am sure will come from him.

So that I was never concerned of, in fact I am more surprised we have never actually put a team to the sword yet by 4 or 5 goals.

I dont think therefore there was a coincidence with the number of goals scored compared to the tight defence, don't know where the theory of more goals since 4-4-2 has came from, we've scored many from the 5-3-2 and probably created more too.

What does concern me is the current situation regarding the defence, I think we look more likely to concede with Steele in the net, and like I said it isn't down just to Steele's attributes it is just the confidence with the defence in him.

The same applied to Steele before his injury, we just always looked conceding, granted his confidence would have took a knock in with the way we were struggling.

I seriously believe if Ikeme was still in goal to this day we would have conceded less and probably a few more points maybe on the board. It's all ifs and buts, saying that there was no way we would keep it up is ludicrous, Newcastle got promoted with a solid backline that rarely changed.

bill_door Posted on 21/11/2011 21:51
yet again, Jason Steele

Fair enough, it's something we'll never know.

I don't think we'd have conceded less if Ikeme was still here as I don't see what he would have done to stop any of the goals, and I'm not convinced he'd have put in the top-drawer performance against Derby that secured three points.

I'm also waiting for us to hammer a team this season, but I did get a bit concerned when we scored 1 in 5, considering we'd scored 13 in 7 before that.

Billy69_uk Posted on 21/11/2011 22:47
yet again, Jason Steele

a lot of opposing opinions, and I guess it is all just that , opinion, and at the end of the day, only the opinion of one matters.

and that Mowbray, and he has chosen to play Steele. not without good reason I assume.

good healthy debate.

HotshotMFC Posted on 22/11/2011 10:54
yet again, Jason Steele

"I don't think we'd have conceded less if Ikeme was still here as I don't see what he would have done to stop any of the goals,"

I don't really want to harp on about this but I think you are missing the point billdoor that it wasn't the "stopping" of the goals,but that Ikeme had contributed vastly to the confidence of the defence whereas it seems to me that this has now been lost and we are back to the stage when the opposition attack we are liable to concede.

grantus Posted on 22/11/2011 11:11
yet again, Jason Steele

I have nothing against the lad and hope him to do very well.

Saying that, we have definately looked better with Smith and then this season, Ikeme in the side.

The big obvious difference is the lack of communication with the back four. Keepers need to open their mouths and talk to, shout at and get working with the back four.

I always get the impression that a quiet keeper is just not as good as he would be if he was vocal.

PinkPonce Posted on 22/11/2011 12:13
yet again, Jason Steele

Hoof ...

PP ... x

bill_door Posted on 22/11/2011 13:41
yet again, Jason Steele

"I don't really want to harp on about this but I think you are missing the point billdoor that it wasn't the "stopping" of the goals,but that Ikeme had contributed vastly to the confidence of the defence whereas it seems to me that this has now been lost and we are back to the stage when the opposition attack we are liable to concede."

Not really missing the point as such, but whoever it was that said we'd have conceded less with Ikeme is making a massive, sweeping, unknowable gesture if he ignores the goals. We'd have conceded less because the defence would have been more confident?

Bóllocks, in my opinion. Our defence is confident, you'd think we were a nervous wreck the way people are going on.

FrozenHorse Posted on 22/11/2011 13:58
yet again, Jason Steele

"Ikeme had contributed vastly to the confidence of the defence whereas it seems to me that this has now been lost and we are back to the stage when the opposition attack we are liable to concede."

Yet the same praise of "giving the defence confidence" was heaped upon Smith last season despite the fact we conceded goals at a faster rate with him in goal than Steele.

That argument always sounded like Steele's critics had reached their conclusion and were then prepared to twist the facts in order to support it.

markw_21 Posted on 22/11/2011 14:13
yet again, Jason Steele

Nail on head grantus [^]

Muttley Posted on 22/11/2011 14:20
yet again, Jason Steele

I have to agree with FH. The facts are being selectively chosen to put Steele in a bad light (but THEY have nothing against the lad). They ignore factors like...

Playing a different formation

Playing a more pro-active style (as opposed to primarily counter attacking)

Suspensions and injuries to key players

A settled defence v. one in which changes have been made.

The simple fact that we played different teams including the runaway leaders at their place!

And it is distilled down to an average of goals conceded and scored. Simplistic shight (as I think I may have said once or twice)

As FH said "Steele's critics had reached their conclusion and were then prepared to twist the facts in order to support it."
Nail.
Head.
Hit.