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ThorntreeExile Posted on 15/11/2011 16:30
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Just giving you guys all a heads up that another strike is planned tomorrow morning at the Lackenby and Redcar gates...so more extremely slow moving traffic from 6.30am onwards for the people heading to Redcar tomorrow via The A66/Mad Mile and Trunk Road [V][sad][V]

TheRock Posted on 15/11/2011 16:31
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Happened yesterday, Was a pain in the ass

youngson19 Posted on 15/11/2011 16:42
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Is it still just the electricians striking?

[?]

ThorntreeExile Posted on 15/11/2011 16:45
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Dunno who was there Monday..but got a feeling there was some wagon jumpers from outside of the area !!

Cooper6711 Posted on 15/11/2011 16:54
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Place be shut down again before long!!

degsyspesh Posted on 15/11/2011 17:37
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

This is a bit like in the early 90's when swan hunters on the tyne had been shut down and then reopened by somebody else after winning a couple of decent contracts. The stupid selfish cnut workforce went out on strike for some pointless reason, the yard lost their orders as a result so all of the workforce were back on the dole. Sheer genius.

MKredleaderOne Posted on 15/11/2011 18:20
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

It seems to a strange one this.

If cotractors were brought in to do work carried out by the council and cut terms and conditions some on here would approve, others would be against it.

In this case would those in favour in the previous case be against in this one?

degsyspesh Posted on 15/11/2011 18:34
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

To be fair I don't know enough about the specifics here. BUT, I do know for certain that the area is desperately in need of getting a sustainable steel operation running again and to do that it has to be competitive on the global market. Picket lines on a plant that hasnt even opened yet is not going to breed a lot of cconfidence within the marketplace as SSI are going out looking for the new orders that will be required to keep the plant operational.

byrno Posted on 15/11/2011 18:36
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Those striking are not striking against SSI as they are all contracted electricians, is against some changes to pay rates dictated by some governing org for sparks iirc.

MFC_Riverside Posted on 15/11/2011 18:38
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Apparently it allws for Electrical Contractor's wages to be 30% lower according to a sparky at work.

Shocking if true but I don't know the specifics myself.

thornabyred Posted on 15/11/2011 18:38
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Deliveries to site cancelled for Wednesday
due to Industrial action.

MKredleaderOne Posted on 15/11/2011 18:43
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

byrno & MFC

that's my point, it's exactly how terms and conditions get cut in the public sector by contracting out services.

MFC_Riverside Posted on 15/11/2011 18:45
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

That isn't always the case in the public sector though. This is different cicumstances and can't be compared to that really.

eston-old-boy Posted on 15/11/2011 18:45
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

SPARKS OVER PAID PRIMA DONNAS, because of them XXXXXXers it took me 55 mins to get from eston baths to dormanstown, i was well late for work , one day last week and again yesterday TOSSERS

MKredleaderOne Posted on 15/11/2011 18:53
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Not exactly the same no.

But one changes the terms and conditions through changing the employer (Public Sector). It's the only way they get away with it.

In this case it's not as the work had gone.

youngson19 Posted on 15/11/2011 18:55
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

scaffolders involved now as they walked out today.

Posted on the Iron & Steel uk facebook group.

[sad]

MFC_Riverside Posted on 15/11/2011 18:56
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

There are a lot of contractors who make a lot of money out of the public sector.


MKredleaderOne Posted on 15/11/2011 18:58
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Mainly those that cut T&Cs

George1507 Posted on 15/11/2011 19:02
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

How long before SSI gets fed up with this and quits?

It beggars belief.

biggee Posted on 15/11/2011 19:04
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

hopefully another 20 years bfore they pull out i just got a job

Halle_Burton Posted on 15/11/2011 19:05
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

The sparks are striking against the big 7 electrical companies (was 8) that are intending to drop out of the JIB and hence set their own rates for men who have served a full apprenticeship. The sparks have had cable pullling taken away already and now the installer/improver will take away another large chunk of their work away if they let it happen. It wont stop at sparks either as far as skilled labour go's if it go's ahead.
Im assuming a couple of my mates will be involved and they arent young hotheads, believe me they will be doing this reluctantly and probably a last resort

alves_boro Posted on 15/11/2011 19:12
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

last wednesday and monday where electricians campaigning againt the new BESNA agreement that is and will come into play. This new agreement details that all rack and tray work will be done by a new grade which is too be called an "installer" this work is currently done my an electrician with help of labourers. With this new agreement coming in there is less work for electricians, Unless electricians drop 3-4 per hour (around 15 now, will go to just below 11) and do the "installer work" So instead of 1000hours on a job for electricans there will now be 500hours for electricians and 500hours for installers meaning lower labour costs and lower wages / work for elecs.

Tomorrow however is a NAECI protest due to wage negotiation break down. ALL trades will be at the gate not just electricians.

Reason why SSI - Biggest job on teesside meaning most havoc caused and more chance of being in the news and making people realize that this agreement is SH*TE!!

George1507 Posted on 15/11/2011 19:22
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

***Biggest job on teesside meaning most havoc caused and more chance of being in the news and making people realize that this agreement is SH*TE!!***

...most havoc caused, most chance of being in the news, most chance of SSI realising they are wasting their time and money before they've produced an ounce of steel.

Maybe it's a dream and I've been transported back to the 1960s.


Halle_Burton Posted on 15/11/2011 19:37
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

TBH even by Teesside rates 11 is poor for blokes who have done a full apprenticeship, the previous poster hasnt even mentioned that the time served spark will end up being responsible for what others put in. Like i said earlier it isnt something a couple of my mates would do without good cause, if you can suggest other ways of protecting the rate im sure they would listen.

Suggesting the unions[:D] i did the stewards job once back in the late 80s and once we were accredited we could never get the official down. pub time ttfn

Wordsfailme Posted on 15/11/2011 19:44
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

What do you work as George?

buttermyarse Posted on 15/11/2011 19:54
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Seems a lot of people commenting on here don't have a XXXXXXing clue what the lads are striking about. Sometimes you have to make a stand. I would like to see what some of you lot would do if you where threatened with a 30 per cent pay cut [V]

john_b Posted on 15/11/2011 19:56
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Does anyone know if Wednesdays action will also involve pickets on the gates at Wilton ?

Doesn't seem likley but someone mentioned it might.

Any ideas ?

George1507 Posted on 15/11/2011 19:57
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

I'm a lawyer.

What would you rather have - a 30% pay cut or a 100% pay cut?

I quite appreciate that these people reckon they're getting a bad deal. So why don't they work it out with the management, make proposals, suggest better ways to work? Anything but go on strike.


zzzzz Posted on 15/11/2011 20:00
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

You're living in the past. Gaurenteed rates are the things of closed shops. People have to more flexible now.

"They've taken the cable pulling away" FFS. Big deal.

And yes. I did serve a four indentured apprenticeship, so yes I do know what's involved.

I've been stuck in the traffic next to the pickets and there's plenty of strikers cars, all newish motors, parked up and quite a few with d1ckhead plates so don't try and tell me these leccys are on the breadline.

And what a way to make an impression on a Company bringing in more jobs to the area than anyone has done for years. Picket their gate. FFS.

Wordsfailme Posted on 15/11/2011 20:01
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

You seem a bit stupid to be a lawyer.

Why don't they give everyone a 80% pay cut? what would you rather have - a 80% pay cut or 100% pay cut?

I'm glad you're not my lawyer

alves_boro Posted on 15/11/2011 20:04
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Dont you reckon we have already tried that George?? We dont go on strike and lose a days pay just too protest and see work colleagues we havent seen in a while! We didnt want it too be like this but the bosses dont listen! all they listen too is the %profit margin.. the union is trying to get them too sit round a table and negotiate but a few times there big 7 companies bosses havnt turned up too arranged meetings. There is one due on the 18th of this month (Friday) but was arranged before the strikes happend.

Also, could of guessed you were a Lawyer.

alves_boro Posted on 15/11/2011 20:06
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

zzzzzz, not all newish cars! any the lads who have the newish cars are the lads who have been working away from home, away from there kids, working 70hours a week. How will your life be if you loose 35% wages?

buttermyarse Posted on 15/11/2011 20:07
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

They've got new-ish cars. [:X] Let them eat cake. [:o)]

zzzzz Posted on 15/11/2011 20:12
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Nobody forces them to work away from home or to work 70 hours a week.

And nobody guarentees me the same rate on every job I go on whether I do a good job or not. The market dictates the rate.

Someone said it's got nothing to do with SSI. If that's the case fk off and picket one of 'the big 7' that you're all banging on about.

youngson19 Posted on 15/11/2011 20:14
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Wouldn't it be nice if in Britain we could have a work force across the board which supported each other against wage cuts and the like, rather than pointing fingers and down playing issues.

Maybe then the world might be a bit fairer. [|)]


john_b Posted on 15/11/2011 20:16
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

"don't try and tell me these leccys are on the breadline."

Don't think anyone did. There's good arguments for/against, but being on the breadline might not be a reason to lodge a protest.

I don't work there, so I don't know. It would be good to hear from people who have an axe to grind about what the difficulties are...


zzzzz Posted on 15/11/2011 20:16
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Answer me this please.

Why should Electricians be given a guarenteed rate when a Fitter or a Welder doesn't?

ThePrisoner Posted on 15/11/2011 20:17
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

"The market dictates the rate."

Sounds more like a cabal of 7 companies is rigging 'the market'. Shouldn't they be competing against each other to hire the right employees? That would be 'a market'.

Ralphy Posted on 15/11/2011 20:18
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Let's just hope the people of Teesside don't end up regretting the decision to strike, whether they are right or wrong.

Good luck lads [^]

6876 Posted on 15/11/2011 20:18
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

So, I am right in thinking that the sparks want a tradesman rate to carry out a very low skilled task such as racking when it really could be done by unskilled workers at a more cost effective rate?


If that is the case where is the issue? There is still a 1000 man hours on offer, just that half of them can be safley done at a saving for the company meaning more cost effective product sold at a cheaper market price for a wider world market?

zzzzz Posted on 15/11/2011 20:21
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

"Sounds more like a cabal of 7 companies is rigging 'the market'. Shouldn't they be competing against each other to hire the right employees? That would be 'a market'."

Eh? How the fk can they rig the market when they all have to pay the same rate?

whale_oil_beef_hooked Posted on 15/11/2011 20:23
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

question is: how many who stand at the gates are actual union members...??

Ime told they all arent also i believe its unofficial action in which case they can be sacked for refusing to work.

And i dont believe for one minute they are going to loose 30%........end of type.

degsyspesh Posted on 15/11/2011 20:26
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

The simple truth is that you don't need to be a fully qualified spark to install containment etc. Just like you don't need to be a time served bricky to mix darbo (exagerating the point but it still stands). This is just a protectionist ruling that reduces the competitiveness of the country.

The country in dying economically and most sane people agree that we need to create wealth to work our way out of the current climate. Most sane people also agree that in order for us to grow our manufacturing industry we need to be competitive on a global scale. While I can sympathise with sparks looking to safeguard their own work it is unbelievably selfish and naive to do what they're doing.

Wordsfailme Posted on 15/11/2011 20:27
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Well I doubt a person who can't spell simple words such as lose is an expert on anything.

Aren't you missing X-factor or something?

buttermyarse Posted on 15/11/2011 20:28
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Because fitters and welders are only glorified labourers. Anyone can do it[;)]

Cooper6711 Posted on 15/11/2011 20:29
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

They'll all be on here on 30th slagging off public sector workers for being on strike....[rle]

ThePrisoner Posted on 15/11/2011 20:29
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

"Eh? How the fk can they rig the market when they all have to pay the same rate?"

Sorry. I thought a 'market' was where pepole competed to offer goods and services. My mistake [rle]

zzzzz Posted on 15/11/2011 20:29
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

degsy [^]

And my question STILL stands. Why should an Electrician get a guarenteed rate when Fitters and Welders don't?

Living in the dark ages. [sad]

zzzzz Posted on 15/11/2011 20:32
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Prisoner, like the Electricians are competing?

No, they want the same rate regardless of how they perform.

Answer my question.

HolgateCorner Posted on 15/11/2011 20:32
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

as lawyer George said, it could be a hobsons choice, 35% cut or no job at all, even with a big cut there could still be no job long term.

You should appreciate that millions have already had big pay cuts and still have ended up on the dole.

The country and the economy is a shambles, wonder how much a sparky in China gets paid, or a lawyer for that matter. I bet it's a lot less than here in both cases.

buttermyarse Posted on 15/11/2011 20:32
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Electricians are the most skilled of al the trades. That's why[^]

zzzzz Posted on 15/11/2011 20:35
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

If that's the best answer you can come up with.... [:o)]

And it is because there is no other answer, Leccys think they have the divine right to a gaurenteed rate.

You'll get no sympathy from me.

MKredleaderOne Posted on 15/11/2011 20:36
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Coops [^]

I was about to say "Sometimes you have to make a stand." unless you're striking at the end of the month in defence of your pension then that's totally out of order.


degsyspesh Posted on 15/11/2011 20:36
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Has anyone thought about it from the labourers perspective who might not have the ability / inclination to become fully time served sparks but might want to develop themselves as qualified installers???

whale_oil_beef_hooked Posted on 15/11/2011 20:38
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Ime with you zzzz as a fitter i too want to know why sparkies think they are better then anyone else.

flyer69 Posted on 15/11/2011 20:38
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

SSI should just shut up shop and move to a country that is not full of left wing union tossers.

Only then will labour and the unions be happy.

Idiots[:(!]

Wordsfailme Posted on 15/11/2011 20:38
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Well electricians can do and very often actually do fitters work, fitters can't do electricians work.

buttermyarse Posted on 15/11/2011 20:39
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Just stick to your big hammers and spanners. [^]

whale_oil_beef_hooked Posted on 15/11/2011 20:40
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

any feker can change a light bulb or fuse !!!!!

ThePrisoner Posted on 15/11/2011 20:40
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

"Prisoner, like the Electricians are competing?"

I'll hazard a guess that the companies got together many moons ago to form their cartel to simultaneously drive wages down so the leccies responded by organising. Twas ever thus.

"No, they want the same rate regardless of how they perform."

"Do they? Sounds like they want the same rate for performing the same task. Shoddy work will no doubt carry penalties."

"Answer my question."

Cartel.


TheBoy007 Posted on 15/11/2011 20:43
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

I bet the directors of these companies aren't short of cash and i bet they're aren't taking a 35% pay cut. Greedy f@ckers.

Everybody out!

Wordsfailme Posted on 15/11/2011 20:44
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

"any feker can change a light bulb or fuse !!!!! "

Well if you think that's all an electrician does, you certainly couldn't do electrical work, you could train a monkey to tighten a bolt mind....


zzzzz Posted on 15/11/2011 20:45
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

The question was why should Leccys be different from all of the other trades that don't get a guarenteed rate?

Of course they want the same rate regardless of how they perform, FFS, that's what the strike is about.

flyer69 Posted on 15/11/2011 20:51
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Thenob007, thats right close every company down that makes money or is not government run.

What an r sole you are.

Stick to being a house wife watching loose women. Idiot[:o)]

TheBoy007 Posted on 15/11/2011 20:54
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

The other trades should get a guaranteed rate, the fact they don't doesn't mean the sparkys should have there's taken away. Does the fact that you have enough food to eat and some fella in Africa doesn't mean you should have your food taken away?

zzzzz Posted on 15/11/2011 20:56
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

[:D][:D][:D]

TheBoy007 Posted on 15/11/2011 20:56
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Flyer69, as sharp as a tack![:D][;)]

Revol_Tees Posted on 15/11/2011 21:12
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

It makes me laugh when people talk about strikes damaging competitiveness and wealth creation. According to that inspired logic, the best way of keeping jobs on Teesside would be to make people work for a pound an hour for 60 hours a week. Or reintroduce slavery. Then we'd definitely get the contracts.

Manufacturing shifted to the Third World in the late twentieth century for the very simple reason that governments and corporations (not to mention bankers and investors) wanted cheaply-made products made by workers with no rights in tinpot dictatorships where people are shot for going on strike. And hey presto, what you get is a steady flow of cheap consumer goods (and cheap credit) to sell to Western consumers. And when the house of cards collapses, you once again blame the workers for not being "competitive" -- and wages are forced down again!

It's one big race to the bottom.

whale_oil_beef_hooked Posted on 15/11/2011 21:14
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Well if you think that's all an electrician does, you certainly couldn't do electrical work, you could train a monkey to tighten a bolt mind....


But you have already said sparkies do fitters work so we dont need to train anymore monkies.. !!!!

[:D]

TheBoy007 Posted on 15/11/2011 21:16
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Spot on Revol. The problem is these right wing suckers keep believing the lies the powers that be keep feeding them, naive doesn't even begin to cover it.

whale_oil_beef_hooked Posted on 15/11/2011 21:19
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

boy what do you do for a living..?

TheBoy007 Posted on 15/11/2011 21:19
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Why do you want to know? What do you do?

whale_oil_beef_hooked Posted on 15/11/2011 21:21
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

read up a few posts and you will be able to see what i do..as for you ime just interested.

TheBoy007 Posted on 15/11/2011 21:24
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

I work in a warehouse.

flyer69 Posted on 15/11/2011 21:36
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Sure you don't mean wendy house.

TheBoy007 Posted on 15/11/2011 21:45
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Done plenty of hours in a wendy house in the past flyer, and baking biscuits, teddy bear tea parties, playing with dolls ect ect.

ThorntreeExile Posted on 15/11/2011 21:48
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

If they have no intent of disrupting the rest of the community in their travels to work...why not start the strike at 9.05am [:P]

flyer69 Posted on 15/11/2011 21:52
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

No doubt all your dolls had a mass walk out over living conditions.(apart from the blow up ones)[:D]

degsyspesh Posted on 15/11/2011 22:04
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

"Manufacturing shifted to the Third World in the late twentieth century for the very simple reason that governments and corporations (not to mention bankers and investors) wanted cheaply-made products made by workers with no rights in tinpot dictatorships where people are shot for going on strike"

Are you sure that it wasn't the public's appetite for cheap consumer gods that did that??? It has very little to do with Governments and even less to do with bankers.

The public can have high wages - but they also need to pay high prices. You can't have one without the other in the long run.

MFC_Riverside Posted on 15/11/2011 22:07
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Degsy [^].

We changed that by being unwilling to pay a fair price for goods, thus our mates manufacturing them couldn't get a fair wage, company goes bust and a new one starts in China making the same stuff but for less...

Consumer is happy ( us ) as we are paying less prices for goods even though our mate is out of a job.

Yep, it's been the public's greed over the last 100 years and we're close to moving all the manufacturing of consumer goods to abroad. Well done TheBoy, as you type on your Made In China equipment and you sit in your Made In China clothes.


degsyspesh Posted on 15/11/2011 22:12
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

.... it all comes back to the fact that as a nation we have been massively living beyond out means for the last 20 years. That has all just ended. The problem is that most people don't realise it yet. But it is only a matter of time....

6876 Posted on 15/11/2011 22:19
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

"Electricians are the most skilled of al the trades."


Yeh, three wires that are colour coded. [:D]

degsyspesh Posted on 15/11/2011 22:27
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

I don't think anyone is (deep down) knocking the skill of sparks as a trade - the concern is the protectionist ruling that only they can install containment when it is a semi-skilled job at best.

buttermyarse Posted on 15/11/2011 22:35
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

That's still 3 more wires than labourers like fitters and welders could manage. [:o)]

Redcarbob2 Posted on 15/11/2011 22:53
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

if their pay is being cut by 30/35% why dont they just stay at home save petrol and stop bothering those of us who want to keep the wheels of industry turning

Halle_Burton Posted on 15/11/2011 22:55
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Degsy im back from the pub and will ask the question i posed before, can the improvers/installers do the same job as a spark in respect of working out the spacing factor etc etc, im afraid the answer is no but the spark will then have to clean up the shiiiit that is left. Im not involved in this dispute and if the blue book agreement had been offerd to the sparks i reckon they would have taken it, pardon the spelling as ive just watched our national heroes demolish mighty sweden so in liddle towers style will be lumping on them to win the nest 3 euros and 2 world cups[^]

Edit redcar 2 bob if you had stuck in at skool you cud have been a spark, wot u saying is u r a wagon driver, keep them wheels turning, plastic chicken theres a bear in the air

TheBoy007 Posted on 15/11/2011 22:56
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

"Are you sure that it wasn't the public's appetite for cheap consumer gods that did that??? "

I think it was more down companies appetite for huge profits. Companies will always market their product at a price that will maximise profit. They aren't interested in fulfilling peoples want of cheap consumer goods. All they want to know is how many units are sold and what are the profits. In the past it was high manufacturing costs, high prices, low sales, massive profits. Now its low manufacturing costs, low prices, high sales, massive profits. Either way the rich win.

TheBoy007 Posted on 15/11/2011 22:59
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

"Well done TheBoy, as you type on your Made In China equipment and you sit in your Made In China clothes."

What have i got to do with that like?

HolgateCorner Posted on 15/11/2011 23:00
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Nobody ever mentions Germany when it comes to competing in the global marketplace, they do it with unions and relatively high wages.

MFC_Riverside Posted on 15/11/2011 23:02
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Erm, the fact that if your keyboard, monitor, and computer components were bought from British Manufacturers then there wouldn't be 2,000,000+ on the dole.

But we all want lower prices and aren't willing to pay a bit more to keep eachother in jobs.

TheBoy007 Posted on 15/11/2011 23:02
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

They also have workers councils that contribute to a companies decision making.

whale_oil_beef_hooked Posted on 15/11/2011 23:03
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

red to green
pink to black
and
blue to bits.


[:D]

TheBoy007 Posted on 15/11/2011 23:04
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

"Erm, the fact that if your keyboard, monitor, and computer components were bought from British Manufacturers then there wouldn't be 2,000,000+ on the dole."

Yeh thats fair enough but i still don't see what it has to do with me or anything i believe in. I'm totally against globalisation and the use of slave labour in developing countries.

MFC_Riverside Posted on 15/11/2011 23:05
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Holgate, even though they still have 6.5% on the dole and have a higher level of debt as a % of GDP.


HolgateCorner Posted on 15/11/2011 23:09
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

I think it's because Germany has better leadership at political and business level.

Most of our politicians and business leaders are complete muppets.

Look at the apprentice as a good example of this, it's a complete joke.

lions led by donkeys is the story of this country for a good few years now.

MFC_Riverside Posted on 15/11/2011 23:13
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

"Yeh thats fair enough but i still don't see what it has to do with me or anything i believe in. I'm totally against globalisation and the use of slave labour in developing countries."

You really need me to explain that?

If you didn't wear all these clothes made in India, Pakistan, Asia etc... Then there wouldn't be the need for slave labour. Slave labour exists, again, because us ( you and me ( the consumer )) want really cheap goods. If you bought from companies who paid fair wages and had good conditions you would have to pay more but we are unwilling to do so hence the need for slave labour.

If you bought from your local clothes manufacturer there wouldn't be the need for globalisation, if you bought from your local computer manufactuere ( components that make up a computer ) there wouldn't be the need for globalisation.

Slave Labour and Globalisation exist because people are very greedy ( whether you admit it or not is another matter ). There is atleast 75% of stuff in your home that was made by globalised companies when it probably could have been sourced from Europe, or even better, Britian.

It's nothing to do with greedy politicians or bankers. It's us. We bought cheap at a cost of a few million jobs. Whether the timescale is now or the last 20 year is irrelavent. It has been coming. More companies have been moving abroad/closing down and more companies have been started or relocated in countries which allow slave labour. If we didn't buy from them, they couldn't exist and would have to abide by our purchasing habits ( expensive items but with fair wages and conditions for staff ).

We played a part. That is undeniable.

TheBoy007 Posted on 15/11/2011 23:15
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Still wondering what the hell you were on about MFC. I agree with you that people should be prepared to pay a bit more to ensure the workers get a decent wage, particularly if its British workers and the goods are manufactured here. I don't think countries should be allowed to set up factories in China ect, pay the workers a pittance then transport the goods back here to sell at a knock down price, but this is the legacy of globalisation (a very right wing concept) and our switch to a service/finance based economy. At the time we were switching to finance Germany was subsidising its manufacturing, safe in the knowledge that in 20 years they'd be the work shop of Europe.

degsyspesh Posted on 15/11/2011 23:15
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

H_B - I have no idea what skill level the proposed "installer" grade is set at but I am sure that it is semi-skilled - i.e. a labourer certainly couldn't do it but then again you certainly don't need to be a fully qualified spark.

Whoever installs the containment obviously needs sufficient skills to be able to do it - but they don't need to be overskilled.

TheBoy007 Posted on 15/11/2011 23:17
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"We played a part. That is undeniable."

Fair enough. Of course we did, just wondered why you'd singled me out as if globalisation was some crusade of mine.

degsyspesh Posted on 15/11/2011 23:20
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

H-C - "Nobody ever mentions Germany when it comes to competing in the global marketplace,"

The unions in Germany are very different to the unions in the UK - while they certainly protect their members they do it in a collaborative way with employers rather than an adversarial way which is almost exclusively the case in the UK.

Unions theoretically should be a force for good. The problem is that in the UK those at the top tend to be as thick as f'ck and can't see beyond the "them and us" attitude.

HolgateCorner Posted on 15/11/2011 23:23
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

I don't think people did play a part, you don't have that much choice with respect to where goods are sourced.

Rover cars went down because they didn't keep pace with the industry, not the fault of the people.

I get more annoyed when factories in derby are shutting because we are buying German trains for London cross rail, that is the economics of the madhouse.

degsyspesh Posted on 15/11/2011 23:25
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

People buy cheap goods. It is as simple as that. The market didn't force cheap goods upon them .

Rover cars went bust because union rules meant that they couldn't compete in a global market.

TheBoy007 Posted on 15/11/2011 23:28
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

My Dad would never buy a car that wasn't made by a British company and manufactured in Britain. Unfortunately he choice seriously dwindled but he sticks with Vauxall, although most models aren't built here now.

TheBoy007 Posted on 15/11/2011 23:31
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

People will always look for the lowest price. If goods from China cost more than from Britain they'd buy British. If wages were at a decent level we could afford to buy British.

HolgateCorner Posted on 15/11/2011 23:33
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I think people buy good value goods, the point is that in most outlets the average consumer can't buy British if it's just not available.

The business leaders outsourced abroad so they couldsell goods at the same price for a lot more profit, that nothing to do with the consumer or anything to do with cheap goods. stuff in the shops is not cheap.

TheBoy007 Posted on 15/11/2011 23:35
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

The shift abroad was driven by profit, as usual.

MFC_Riverside Posted on 15/11/2011 23:36
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Holgate, because they are cheaper. We scream at the government for spending our money then they buy cheaper and we go mad again.

I was been dramatic, TheBoy, as you seem to think it's the world leaders fault that there is child slave labour and yes they could implement thngs to stop it. But if they did we'd only whinge that things are even more expensive. But the fact is, it is ultimatly down to the consumer which is my point.

The very bottom line is it is our fault. If you want to blame Thatcher, do so, Cameron, Brown or whoever, you can. The reason for globalisation and explotacian is us. We are gready, we want cheap goods now. Is it right that even the unemployed can afford the very best technology and goods, well that's another debate, but they can because we have drove down prices. We refuse to buy British made products because they are expensive so companies move abroad where they can make products we will buy. That's the common sense thing to do from a business point of view. We drove them to it buy not buying they products when they were paying good wages so they thought, sod this we'll get rid of our British factory and move it abraod, they might buy our products now.

The German people have a part to play in their manufacturing sector. They all try to buy German, every car on the road over there is made in Germany by a German company.

However, Germany aren't that far ahead of us and it's funny how everyone shouts that they are doing fine when in actual fact, the figures suggest very similar conditions.

It's time for us to pay up, say no to foriegn tat and for those that can ( most I would suggest ) to buy British and keep your mates in jobs.

EDIT: It's just a shame that that time was 50 years ago. However, there is still hope whilst we have some skills remaining here. The tide can still turn back in our favour. I believe we are at a cross roads, with the downturn and all that, we now have a choice to make.

TheRock Posted on 16/11/2011 07:38
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

[V]

woolyback Posted on 16/11/2011 07:46
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Most people on site were starting earlier or later this morning to avoid them.

degsyspesh Posted on 16/11/2011 07:48
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

"People will always look for the lowest price. If goods from China cost more than from Britain they'd buy British. If wages were at a decent level we could afford to buy British."

Wages are at a VERY decent level - in a decade you will look back at this country pre the crash and be shocked at how much your standard of living has fallen.

Your suggestion that if people had more money they would buy British is naive in the extreme. They would simply buy MORE goods from wherever in the world produced them the cheapest. That point has been undeniably proven over the last decade.

I know you would like to blame the government but the reality is that it all comes back to the publics greed.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 16/11/2011 07:55
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'We are gready, we want cheap goods now'

We can only buy what we're offered, and most people, rightly or wrongly, don't s4earch for the often deliberately hidden information as to where a product is manufactured or grown.

Interestingly, the country espousing free trade the loudest restricts where good are imported from.

zzzzz Posted on 16/11/2011 08:44
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

They were there on both gates this morning but the police weren't letting them stop the cars on the first gate and were diverting the traffic on the second gate.

They looked a right bunch of clips stood in the cold doing fk all. [V]

So no delays for Joe Public this time but some of the SSI workers couldn't get in on time.

If it's this 'cartel' of 7 Leccy Companies that they have a beef with why don't you fk off and stand outside their place instead of affectring the SSI grafters who it has fk all to do with?

Halle_Burton Posted on 16/11/2011 09:05
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zzz i think you will find the 7 leccy giants are spread about the country and what impact would that have, im glad to see you are thinking this one through carefully. As they are reportedly not willing to negotiate i dont think the picketing of office birds and HR managers is going to get them far in their fight against a 30% pay cut. As for doing fk all they are doing more than most would by being there, would you suggest them just accepting it perhaps which is really doing fk all.

SSI grafters that remains to be seen[:D] there will be many of the bone idle chunts that were with corus there so i will leave that to the imagination.

Jdub Posted on 16/11/2011 09:27
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

We are guaranteed a rate because our job brings a lot of responsibility we have to do various courses throughout our working just to be allowed to continue to work most other trades just serve their time and that's it for life,oh did I mention we are a class apart and more clever than everyone!!![^]

degsyspesh Posted on 16/11/2011 09:35
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

If you are all so clever why do you waste your time doing such a demeaning job as installing containment?

Jdub Posted on 16/11/2011 11:44
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Because we are guaranteed our rate and do it correctly ,SIMPLES!!

buttermyarse Posted on 16/11/2011 12:01
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"SSI grafters" No idea what the new workforce is like,but I know quite a few who wouldnt exactly fit the critteria of a "grafter".......[:D]

Halle_Burton Posted on 16/11/2011 12:03
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yes butters you did spring to mind, first impressions an all that, did you see Billy Bragg on the gates this morning[^]

He is signing all the barbour jackets the well off sparks are wearing

SuperBok Posted on 16/11/2011 12:08
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sparks are worried that the companies will get lesser qualified peiople to do the majority of the work

However if that was the case the companies would be using JIB improvers anyway.

also I believe the overtime on the new agreement is now the same

problem is with all these strikes the clients are just gonna kick the companies off site meaning no jobs for the people who have been on strike

vicous circle

buttermyarse Posted on 16/11/2011 12:14
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Didnt see anyone mate.Nobody pickets SBCO gate. Like I said before most people dont know it exists. Its the land that time forgot[;)]


ps/I AM one of those "grafters" zzzzz is referring to by the way......[smi]

SuperBok Posted on 16/11/2011 12:15
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

can I just say this 30% pay cut is THE BIGGEST LOAD OF RUBBISH EVER

Halle you know companies like ours (dont say the name ta) always payid and do pay people according to their grades

What an Electrician earns now (14.35) an hour he will earn exactly the same under the new BESNA agreement

Plus they get an extra days holiday

Plus they might get a wage rise, something the Union and JIB didnt give them last year

proper short sighted sheep being led by Union members keen to keep themselves in the limelight.

Revol_Tees Posted on 16/11/2011 12:38
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

degsyspesh/MFC_Riverside: you need to be just a little bit more specific (and honest) when you talk about the greedy general public's appetite for cheap consumer goods driving manufacturing abroad, instead of only telling half the story.

The Western public as a whole did not suddenly decide that any price was worth paying for cheap consumer goods. It was licensed in this country by the Conservative Party and its corporate sponsors (and eventually by the Labour Party too) with a minority of the public's consent. It was done incrementally and largely in ignorance of the wider implications, which were deliberately concealed from the public for fear of provoking a political backlash.

When, for example, did you ever hear any of Thatcher's ministers ask the public whether they minded if taxpayers' money was spent on weapons to shore up Third World dictatorships to keep sweatshops running and the price of consumer goods low? When did you ever hear a leading banker ask the public whether we minded if the cheap credit he was offering was available as a result of a gamble on the financial markets, underwritten by an investment in some cheap land or factory in the Philippines where computers were being made or $2 per day? How is the electorate supposed to make informed decisions on such matters when the facts are deliberately withheld, by politicians, bankers, corporations and mass media who all have a massive financial stake in the very system they're promoting?

The truth is, when you talk about "our" greed, you speak for yourself. Millions didn't go along with it, and millions actively resisted it, including the kinds of people you're denigrating now for going on strike, i.e. trade unionists. Millions voted against Thatcher, including a majority of working class voters. Believe it or not, some people have said all along that they would rather show solidarity with workers in the Third World and pay higher prices for consumer goods in the West -- provoding their own wages permitted it. Fundamentally, that would be mean a fairer distribution of the wealth globally: and no more pandering to bankers, corporations and dodgy Third World dictatorships with no workers' rights or tax regulations. Trade unions are part of that struggle.


Leatherneck Posted on 16/11/2011 12:43
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

ZZZZZ, you say that you get paid what the market dictates, and in your line of work that may be the case. I do have a question though.
If you employ a legal secretary to do part of the your work, I would imagine you charge an hourly rate for the work being done by that legal secretary, if he or she was not available and you needed to complete the work which is normally done by the secretary do you charge the lawyers rate or the secretary rate?

boro5 Posted on 16/11/2011 12:56
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

I agree with the comment market forces will decide rates of pay. It is now a global market. Agree with it or not thats the reality and Britain needs to get competitive again and start making stuff, so we're not reliant on a couple of square miles in London being responsible for 25% of our GDP!

degsyspesh Posted on 16/11/2011 12:58
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

R_T - an interesting viewpoint, but you're overcomplicating simple consumer demand. Why do you think Tesco is so popular?

Bobby_Braithwaite Posted on 16/11/2011 13:08
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Leatherneck

No he won't.

He'll charge his rate even when the secrtary is doing the work.

degsyspesh Posted on 16/11/2011 13:13
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errr, nope.

gravyboat Posted on 16/11/2011 13:13
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Tesco is so popular because most people just look at the price and convenience, and don't consider the implications of either on other workers and producers, be they at home or abroad.

Trade Unions play their (sadly ever decreasing) part in trying to persuade others to make that consideration.

degsyspesh Posted on 16/11/2011 15:17
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

"Tesco is so popular because most people just look at the price and convenience, and don't consider the implications of either on other workers and producers, be they at home or abroad. "

Nail on head.

As long as the public can buy as much as possible as cheaply as possible and as easily as possible they couldn't give a flying f'ck.

gravyboat Posted on 16/11/2011 15:40
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

Ok, but it's important to make the point that not *everyone* thinks like that.

I use Tesco and Amazon and the like, of course I do, but I also use local, smaller retailers who are more expensive, because I think it's important to support them, and to give a regular poke in the eye to the big boys. Plus the product is often better.

Not everyone 'couldn't give a flying f'ck'

lee1986 Posted on 16/11/2011 15:42
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

From what i gather a 30% pay cut is utter rubbish, isn't it a 30% pay cut on the weekend over time rate?

As is Sundays now time and a quarter instead of double time and Saturday time and a quarter instead of time and a half?

Please do correct me if i'm wrong though!!!

zzzzz Posted on 16/11/2011 17:02
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

"ZZZZZ, you say that you get paid what the market dictates, and in your line of work that may be the case. I do have a question though.
If you employ a legal secretary to do part of the your work, I would imagine you charge an hourly rate for the work being done by that legal secretary, if he or she was not available and you needed to complete the work which is normally done by the secretary do you charge the lawyers rate or the secretary rate?"

Don't see your point Leatherneck....?

You pay the rate applicable to the work being carried out of course.

If I engage an Inspector to witness some tests and the Agency send a Senior Inspector instead I'm not gonna pay for the Senior, I didn't ask for one.

Don't see your point Leatherneck....?

MFC_Riverside Posted on 16/11/2011 17:11
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

I'm not agreeing with no government or supporting left of right wing. The fact is the companies that produce cheap goods due to slave labour sell lots. It really isn't hard and yes, there are lots of other points that this leads on to but the fundamental fact is we buy cheap goods and we don't have to. There a lots of little British manufacturers we could turn to, grow there order books, more workers, better conditions and we live in a propsperous country.

zzzzz Posted on 16/11/2011 17:27
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

MFC Riverside

Is 14.35 an hour slave labour?

If it's not I don't understand your point in relation to the Electricians?

MFC_Riverside Posted on 16/11/2011 17:28
SSI Strike again tomorrow !!

My reply wasn't to you.