permalink for this thread : http://search.catflaporama.com/post/browse/2932574
channel4 Posted on 03/11/2011 04:30
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

me me me me shame on you and your labour backing union


Link: union greed

spurticus Posted on 03/11/2011 06:27
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Hahahahaha [:o)]

Best of luck to them I say.....

Just cos you don't mind getting shafted up the arris dont expect everyone else to ...

Btw I ain't got a pension.....ill bum off the state after I've spent everything...[^]

Gene_Vincent Posted on 03/11/2011 06:45
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

"Btw I ain't got a pension.....ill bum off the state after I've spent everything..."

20 odd years living on 90 quid a week...bet you can't wait.

stocko_mfc Posted on 03/11/2011 06:58
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

It says nurses earn 30k on that little table...!!! I took no notice after that. Typical made up mail propaganda to bow to the tories.
Just seen that the figures are based on a 4.25% pay increase every year..!!!!! When did nurses last get that sort of payrise..????
Lets not let the truth get in the way of a good story though eh..!!!!!

borobadge Posted on 03/11/2011 07:00
the fight of the public sector worker......is for all of us

[:D]

four and a half grand is the avaeage public sector workers pension...

theyre fighting for all of us...

all that free education has been wasted on some simpletons.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 03/11/2011 07:21
the fight of the public sector worker......is for all of us

'me me me me shame on you and your labour backing union'

you absolute muppet!


channel4 Posted on 03/11/2011 07:34
the fight of the public sector worker......is for all of us

as long as public sector workers can do less work for more money they will shaft this country in any way they can.

deganya Posted on 03/11/2011 07:41
the fight of the public sector worker......is for all of us

You keep licking the windows son, you're fcuking special channel4 !!

halcyon Posted on 03/11/2011 07:41
the fight of the public sector worker......is for all of us

What do you do for a living, Channel 4?

channel4 Posted on 03/11/2011 07:44
the fight of the public sector worker......is for all of us

what does what i do have to do with it? regardless of my job, i still think public sector workers are a disgrace trying to bring this country to its knees.
labour puppets

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 03/11/2011 07:44
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

'Guaranteeing the final salary schemes of up to a million workers who are within ten years of retirement.

Protection for workers who earn 15,000 or less from making higher contributions. '

two points here that could do with a bit of clarifying. The first being that the people with ten years or less are looked after. Well a lot of those will be leaving under Voluntary Early Release so that they get a decent pay off - this they have already agreed to do or are about to agree to do. So it is then helping a minority.

The protection for workers earning less than 15k. Firstly that then suggests anyone earning 16k and above is going to get a bad deal. so if you are on 16k you are fecked. Also the amount of people earning under 15k will be so small that it will make very little difference, add to the fact that the government through cuts have got rid of lots of the really basic roles which will cover the majority earning under 15k.

halcyon Posted on 03/11/2011 07:48
the fight of the public sector worker......is for all of us

What was it you said you did for a living?

It would be interesting to see if you are a member of the working class you are vilifying here.

Surely you have nothing to hide do you?

Maybe you do not work at all.

deganya Posted on 03/11/2011 07:51
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

changing the way they calculate inflation by cynically changing RPI to CPI, has the effect of wiping 15% of the value of a pension in one stroke. No change there from the Nasty Party!

halcyon Posted on 03/11/2011 07:57
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

I can't seem to get Channel 4. [:D]

ron_manager Posted on 03/11/2011 07:58
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

chanel no. 4, I'm a public sector worker and you would not last one day in my job. It's quite obvious you have neiother the skills, volition or temperament to do my job.

So shut up you fool.

HarryVegas Posted on 03/11/2011 08:05
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

ron [:O][:D]

Miklaadt Posted on 03/11/2011 08:08
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

...


Link: hmmm

zzzzz Posted on 03/11/2011 08:09
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

I know a few blokes that joined the civil service when they left school and one of the main things that's kept them going was the PROMISE of a final salary pension. After years of service they've now been told that won't happen.

If that had happened to anyone else in any job there'd be hell on.

Just because they're civil servants doesn't mean they should take it lying down.

Expect hell on over the next months.




trugggg Posted on 03/11/2011 08:28
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Channel4- you are an arsole-
public sector pensions are not good- in fact they are quite poor for the majority. Private sector pensionsare even worse because the employees have allowed the employers to rob them blind and walk all over them. Why did they not stick up for their pensions?- because they they did not have the backbone to do so. Sh*thouses is the word I would use
Now you are complaining that somebody has the nerve to stand up to a greedy employer- something the private sector workers did not do.
Prat!!!!!

speckyget Posted on 03/11/2011 08:41
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Which rightwing arsehole troll did this rightwing arsehole troll used to be before he was this rightwing arsehole troll?

jam69 Posted on 03/11/2011 08:42
the fight of the public sector worker......is for all of us

Shame on those buying the daily mail,its all me me me

JuninhosMagicHat Posted on 03/11/2011 08:47
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

I just love this board - anyone who dares to suggest that the public sector are holding the country to ransom is immediately villified as a rightwing troll.
Let's get a few things clear shall we - the public sector pensions are, generally, far better than the private sector (unless you are a company director of course!). Public sector working hours - oh that would be nice! - 9-5, flexitime, gimme gimme gimme!
Ii have averaged well over 50 hours a week for many many years - both as a contractor and as a permie. Nothing special that - most people do in my world.
I have family and friends i nthe public sector - yes, in some mways they have been badly treated but these are hard times and we are all being shafted!
Last time I got any kinda cost of living pay rise? - can't remember - a long time ago!

p.s. I'm from the Boro, I used to vote labour, think the tories are what they always were but I'm not fooled by labour either! (13 years achieved what for the North East??)

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 03/11/2011 09:09
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

'the public sector pensions are, generally, far better than the private sector '

how true is that?

it sounds like you are suggesting there is one big public sector type pension and 1 big private sector type pension, and the public one is better.

where i work in the public sector my pensions is different to those in the office next to me. I pay so much per month into my pension, they pay nothing. I get no big pay off at they end, they get a pay off, I come away with a slightly higher pension than theirs though (month by month).

Those are a few facts.

hewielewie Posted on 03/11/2011 09:15
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

"Public sector working hours - oh that would be nice! - 9-5, flexitime, gimme gimme gimme!"

Do you honestly believe that or have you got that from the Daily Mash aswell?

rivals_oldschool Posted on 03/11/2011 09:17
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

The private sector never had the option to vote for a scumbag promising to take that money off somebody else.

These civil servants who have worked in the public sector all their lives have never paid tax in all their lives either. The money they receive only comes from private sector tax, or money the Government borrowed from somewhere else.

Lets not pretend that the little bit they then give back can be construed as chipping in.

FartingGnome Posted on 03/11/2011 09:18
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

"Which rightwing arsehole troll did this rightwing arsehole troll used to be before he was this rightwing arsehole troll?"

Well, the modus operandi of posting a link to the Daily Mail is familiar, but this rightwing arsehole troll looks to be even less literate and thoughtful than the previous rightwing arsehole troll, if that were possible.

chorleyphil Posted on 03/11/2011 09:18
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

ah pensions...the new endowment policies.

speckyget Posted on 03/11/2011 09:19
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

So by that token rivals the money they spend in the private sector (ie all of it) doesn't count as private sector revenue either?

halcyon Posted on 03/11/2011 09:21
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

[:D]

rivals_oldschool Posted on 03/11/2011 09:25
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Yes, but how much of it went to help us considering much of it went on buying goods made outside of the UK anyway.

halcyon Posted on 03/11/2011 09:27
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

[:D]

speckyget Posted on 03/11/2011 09:31
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

You're right rivals, it's civil servants that have brought UK manufacturing to this sorry pass. The nerve.

rivals_oldschool Posted on 03/11/2011 09:45
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

No, I think the problem stems on the basis they should have asked where is this money coming from, rather than not caring?

What is unapayble stays unpayable, irrespective where it's written down.

speckyget Posted on 03/11/2011 09:58
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Do you think civil servants are a different species of human?

And as for 'unpayable' - if you mean 'unaffordable', who told you?

BigCasino Posted on 03/11/2011 10:03
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

If this doesn't get a ton fifty I'll buy yers all a jar.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 03/11/2011 10:09
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

they said 'unaffordable' when they presented the last deal, and now they have managed to afford a better deal

vuvuzelas Posted on 03/11/2011 10:10
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

"public sector workers are a disgrace trying to bring this country to its knees."

[:o)][:o)][:o)][:o)][:o)][:o)][:o)]

rivals_oldschool Posted on 03/11/2011 10:15
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Well the national debt says it is.

Wake up and smell the coffee, it was a lie from the very beginning. .

speckyget Posted on 03/11/2011 10:21
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

You could use the national debt to argue that nothing's affordable.

Rayman Posted on 03/11/2011 10:22
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

I know that the OAP is playing Devil's advocate but even so it's worth pointing out the 1960's education/work/reward system.

Back then we were encouraged to work hard at school to get qualifications. A job in the Civil service, Local Government, or the ICI was a job for life. Fantasy jobs such as footballers, drug dealers, or corrupt entrepreneurs weren't as big then.

By all means reduce rights of new entrants if you wish, the extra money is needed to pay to CEOs and bankers, but surely it can't be morally correct to attack people with thirty years service.


rivals_oldschool Posted on 03/11/2011 10:34
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

In the same breath why should anyone work harder to honour a promise made before they were even born. Especially when they aren't going to be entitled to the same.

It's not they're problem.

John67 Posted on 03/11/2011 10:56
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Private pensions were screwed by the tory government that allowed firms to take pension payment holidays whist using the money to show as profit. This allowed bosses to increase their pay and bonuses. The public sector will not allow this government to break the past agreements and will strike. For me, if they force through these changes I am willing to strike for as long as it takes. For me their should also be the threat of a nuclear option which would be for all public sector workers to pull out and demand the money in the pot be invested in non-UK tax paying companies. This government led by millionaires telling us all we have to work longer and harder for less whilst feathering their and those of their mates nests is sickening.

deganya Posted on 03/11/2011 11:05
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

well said john67

rivals ...."These civil servants who have worked in the public sector all their lives have never paid tax in all their lives either"

you lost any credibility you had left when you made that incredibly stupid remark!

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 03/11/2011 11:07
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

well said john

rivals_oldschool Posted on 03/11/2011 11:09
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Why, where do you think their taxable salary comes from?

vuvuzelas Posted on 03/11/2011 11:15
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Exactly John67.

Oh, no wait a moment. You cant be right because

We're all in this together!

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 03/11/2011 11:16
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Value Added Tax you nob... is a simple starting point

ZippytheHippy Posted on 03/11/2011 11:16
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Mate of mine works fir the FSA as a meat inspector.

Earns 26k rising to 32k with gauranteed o/t that is paid even if he does not work it. He works 4 days a week get six weeks paid holiday and pays the princley sum of 3% into his pension which he can collect at 60.

I work for myself as a sparky and earn 30 - 35k a year. No paid overtime, no paid holidays, no paid sick leave. If I contributed 3% to my pension I'd be working til I was 106 before i could retire.

John67 Posted on 03/11/2011 11:23
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

IMHO it's time to stop pussyfooting around. This government do not have the mandate to do as they please. Why the hell should the ordinary working man (edit: or women) and their families suffer for years because bankers and politicians screwed up when there are hundreds and hundreds of billions available to the goverment if they closed tax loopholes and forced corporations and banks to pay their share. Anyone daft enough to believe the tory rhetoric about rabid leftie unions is a XXXXXXing idiot. This goverment is picking this fight but this is the single issue that will unite millions and we will win even if the country overall loses because of tory daily mail led stupidity.

rivals_oldschool Posted on 03/11/2011 11:23
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Right, so it's just money that's already been taxed anyway.


vuvuzelas Posted on 03/11/2011 11:26
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Thats the terms and conditions in the contract your mate signed too zippy.

If they want to change the terms and conditions in the way they pay meat inspectors then they should do it and offer those conditions to new employees. Not rip up the contracts that both parties agreed to and signed.

deganya Posted on 03/11/2011 11:27
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

you been on the drugs again Rivals?

rivals_oldschool Posted on 03/11/2011 11:32
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Sure, I'll have whatever your having.

vuvuzelas Posted on 03/11/2011 11:33
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Spot on John67.

These bankers have been gambling with the financial stability of the country for years and have been reaping the rewards and made themselves millions and millions.

When those gambles went wrong they forced the tax payer to pick up the bill and shfted the average man in the street.

In what other warp of life could you gamble and make yourself filthy rich with someone elses money and not pay the guarantor any of proceeds and then when it goes wrong walk away with all your money and leave the guarantor financially f**ked.

Its a complete joke!

rivals_oldschool Posted on 03/11/2011 11:35
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

"In what other warp of life could you gamble and make yourself filthy rich with someone elses money and not pay the guarantor any of proceeds and then when it goes wrong walk away with all your money and leave the guarantor financially f**ked".


Erm, pensions?

Arthur_Pringle Posted on 03/11/2011 11:35
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Mate of mine works fir the FSA as a meat inspector.

Earns 26k rising to 32k with gauranteed o/t that is paid even if he does not work it. He works 4 days a week get six weeks paid holiday and pays the princley sum of 3% into his pension which he can collect at 60.

I work for myself as a sparky and earn 30 - 35k a year. No paid overtime, no paid holidays, no paid sick leave. If I contributed 3% to my pension I'd be working til I was 106 before i could retire.

Spot on mate[^] These pampered public secotor workers need a reality check[^]

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 03/11/2011 11:35
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

you want paid holidays and sick then dont work for your fecking self.

Arthur_Pringle Posted on 03/11/2011 11:40
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

"you want paid holidays and sick then dont work for your fecking self."


Spoken like a true Public Sector worker. Fcuck you Jack Im alright[^]

John67 Posted on 03/11/2011 11:40
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

What really boils my pish is people like Fred Goodwin walked away with millions. He and his like should have their assets striped and be in prison. Instead we have tory apologists blaming, in no particular order, the unemployed, the dis-abled, the moderate unions, public sector workers whilst not seeing the evidence of their own eyes which must surely show them that they are being shafted yet again by the monied special interests of the powerful. Shame on them I say.

vuvuzelas Posted on 03/11/2011 11:42
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

"Spoken like a true Public Sector worker. Fcuck you Jack Im alright [^]"

Not in the slightest.

More like, if you dont like the terms and conditions of the job then dont sign up to them.




John67 Posted on 03/11/2011 11:44
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

So now we can see some fantasic examples of the blinkered bitter people that can't see the wood for the trees [rle].

rivals_oldschool Posted on 03/11/2011 11:45
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

I don't support bankers being bailed out no more than politicians lies on pension promises made over 40 years ago.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 03/11/2011 11:45
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

every job in the private sector i have had have paid my sick and holiday leave something to do with laws etc they have to do that, i got a break every 4 hrs (or was it 6) again due to laws put in place.

you want to work for yourself then you dont get those things paid for

vuvuzelas Posted on 03/11/2011 11:46
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

"In what other warp of life could you gamble and make yourself filthy rich with someone elses money and not pay the guarantor any of proceeds and then when it goes wrong walk away with all your money and leave the guarantor financially f**ked".


"Erm, pensions?"

Rivals you have completely lost it. There is no way you can compare the two situations. This country is not f**ked because of public sector pensions.

Arthur_Pringle Posted on 03/11/2011 11:46
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

More like, if you dont like the terms and conditions of the job then dont sign up to them.

Unfortunately even the poor public sector workers who thought they had lovely gold plated pensions are doing to have to do what the rest of us are doing and tighten their belts.Its about time you lot came into the real world with the rest of us[^]

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 03/11/2011 11:50
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

'rest of us are doing and tighten their belts.Its about time you lot came into the real world with the rest of us'

the real world in private sector isnt no pay for sick or holiday leave UNLESS you are self employed. I think even agency staff get those perks now.

If you dont like it then go and get a proper job!

VeeCee Posted on 03/11/2011 11:51
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Oh !! this is getting the country thinking. Body swerve needed..time for Toxic Dave to talk about bombing Iran[;)]

John67 Posted on 03/11/2011 11:52
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Arthur, you are not getting this are you mate. Public Sector workers signed up to certian terms and conditions and are now expecting, their employer, the state to live up to those terms and conditions. Or is this too difficult for you to follow. Jeremy Kyle is probably on now if you want to engage with something you'll be able to follow [^]

vuvuzelas Posted on 03/11/2011 11:52
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

This real world you talk about Arthur. Is this the real world where you are given a contract to do a job by the people who run the country, signed by both parties and when it suits them they can just change them anytime they want too?

In this real world, can I just renege on parts of the contract that I signed anytime it suits me?

Arthur_Pringle Posted on 03/11/2011 11:53
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Like I said there is no reason to pay the public sector workers any more than what they would receive as a state pension. My taxes shouldnt be used for pensions so you lot can sit on your fat arses from the age of 60. Time to face up to reality methinks

sambaDTR Posted on 03/11/2011 11:55
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

I registered with this site and tried to add a comment about the fact that I have worked 14 years in a Sixth Form College and my biggest ever pay rise in all that time was 2.5% For some reason my comments weren't added! Is the phrase 'Moderated' another term for 'Censored'? And here is me thinking the Internet was for free speech...

rivals_oldschool Posted on 03/11/2011 11:55
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

No, it's f*cked from number fudging which pensions were not immune from.

It was all built on future promises that never materialised. Your talking about an era where workers outnumbered pensioners by far and the maximum time you were likely to draw from these pensions was five years.

All that's completely out the window now. I'm not going to work to fund a pension lifestyle I won't be receiving.

Arthur_Pringle Posted on 03/11/2011 11:57
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

I'm not going to work to fund a pension lifestyle I won't be receiving.

But you are funding it. TAXPAYERS are[^]

sambaDTR Posted on 03/11/2011 11:57
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

I'm on! That took a while.

vuvuzelas Posted on 03/11/2011 11:59
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

"My taxes shouldnt be used for pensions so you lot can sit on your fat arses from the age of 60."

Yes they should because that is the agreement the government made with the people who have dedicated their working lives to serve the country.

John67 Posted on 03/11/2011 12:00
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Samba: Perhaps you can try to explain to Arthur what this is all about because no one else has [:O]

Arthur_Pringle Posted on 03/11/2011 12:02
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

"who have dedicated their working lives to serve the country."

Fair enough if you are in the forces or emegency services I agree. The rest of you lot can have a state pension.

What do you do?[rle]


Razmond_HWDR Posted on 03/11/2011 12:03
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

i am public sector and i pay a decent amount into my pension each month.

i cant determine whether you are angry with those that contribute nothing from their wages and get a decent pension at the end or you include the ones that contribute a large amount of wages each month into the pension?

halcyon Posted on 03/11/2011 12:04
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

John 67 [^] [:D]

John67 Posted on 03/11/2011 12:07
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Maybe Arthur is self-taught and neither he or his family have needed a doctor or a nurse. Maybe it times of trouble he has policed his own neighbourhood and fought for the country without wanting payment. If he sees a fire perhaps he runs into the building and uses his pish and wind to put it out and all the time paying his taxes on time and never misses out a cash payment for a job he did. What a guy, what a XXXXXXing [:o)]

JuninhosMagicHat Posted on 03/11/2011 12:16
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

as i understand it the public sector workers have no interest in the current financial situation, the massive changes in population age or financial reality. They want what was originally promised even if it bankrupts the country - of course, who will pay for this? - why, the rest of the country of course!

09_dave_09 Posted on 03/11/2011 12:18
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Not all public sector pensions pay small % in, dont believe the hype! I used to be in the Fire Brigade and I payed in 11% and I have been told of friends still in the service that is expected to rise!

Im sure people read the paper and take it as fact. Most of Public sector workers earn below 30k and work 40+ hours. The country should support each other public and private not bitch when they find out someone has better conditions.

vuvuzelas Posted on 03/11/2011 12:20
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Arthur

"Fair enough if you are in the forces or emegency services I agree. The rest of you lot can have a state pension.

What do you do?"

I dont really want to say what I do because it's not about me personally. I have mentioned it before on this board but would rather not go into it. My arguement is for every public sector worker because that was the agreement between everyone of us and our government.


Razmond_HWDR Posted on 03/11/2011 12:22
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

'They want what was originally promised even if it bankrupts the country - of course, who will pay for this? - why, the rest of the country of course!'

if you really think that is true then maybe you'll agree that we shouldnt keep giving money to the IMF to proper up other countries, and rather we should look after our own

09_dave_09 Posted on 03/11/2011 12:24
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Also you will find most pension schemes are profitable but alot of the money over the years has been spent on things like roads and rail.

Arthur_Pringle Posted on 03/11/2011 12:25
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

"I dont really want to say what I do because it's not about me personally"

Obviously a pen-pusher then....[^]

JuninhosMagicHat Posted on 03/11/2011 12:25
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

"if you really think that is true then maybe you'll agree that we shouldnt keep giving money to the IMF to proper up other countries, and rather we should look after our own"

Not sure I get that analogy - there is a world of difference between one group of workers in a country propping up another group of workers in the same country and the objectives of the IMF?

hewielewie Posted on 03/11/2011 12:26
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Arthur, why does vuvuzelas occupation have anything to do with the argument on this thread?

sambaDTR Posted on 03/11/2011 12:27
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

OK. Here we go.. Our College get's money from a central fund. We get paid so much for every student we teach and so much for their exam results. If we lose students (customers) to other Colleges, employers etc or their results (sales) drop then we get less money and the College lays off staff. So is that a lot different to the Private sector? The difference is this. We do not make a profit which is the reason why there are not many private Colleges, hospitals etc. If we were privatised and we had to make a profit then Channel4 etc would have to get saving up if he wanted to send his kids to a private College or go into hospital. Also if they privatised the public services do you think you would honestly pay LESS tax?

JuninhosMagicHat Posted on 03/11/2011 12:28
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

because he talked about 'serving the country!' - ridiculous if ur a civil servant or a council worker to call it that - armed forces and emergency services absolutely - but they are a separate and deserving case to me tbh

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 03/11/2011 12:29
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

JuninhosMagicHat the comparison was simple we said as a state that we would not give money to these countries, we are now doing that via the IMF. If we can afford that, then surely we can afford decent pensions for our own people.

The private sector does not prop up the public sector you fool. That is a very simplistic way at suggestion that all tax is only paid by private sector employees. [|)]

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 03/11/2011 12:31
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

JuninhosMagicHat are you suggesting the Ministry of Defence does or doesnt serve the country?

are you saying that only the serving soldiers deserve a pension and every other member of the Ministry of Defence does not?

JuninhosMagicHat Posted on 03/11/2011 12:37
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

no - I'm not saying that (re who deserves a pension) - don't be so black and white! - what I said was the term 'serving your country' should only be used to describe the armed forces and emergency services. If you work in the ministry of defence in an office why the hell is that not just a job???
as for who deserves a pension - almost everyone does - I do think the armed forces especially should get very generous pension deals personally

NedKat Posted on 03/11/2011 12:42
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Channel 4 seems to have lifted a particular lid on a touchy subject.

I don't understand how a public sector worker, who signed on the dotted line 30 years ago, can suddenly be told the promised pension is no longer in place ?

Whatever job you do, that is plain and simple cheating people out of their money ...

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 03/11/2011 12:43
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

i agree to some extent but the MoD serves the country as a whole, just because you are not on the front line does not mean you are not part of the system that serves and looks after this country.

so you are correct everything is not black or white.

We have some members of the armed forces who just sit in an office all day.

MONKEY Posted on 03/11/2011 12:45
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

anyone what has done the same job for 30 years in the same place must be XXXXXXing dull like

vuvuzelas Posted on 03/11/2011 12:47
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

"I dont really want to say what I do because it's not about me personally"

Obviously a pen-pusher then...."

Ok mate I didnt want to make a personal plea of any sort but you obviously didnt respect my last answer.

I am a Police Firearms Officer (not for Cleveland). I am 32 years old and have been working in the Police for over 12 years now, the vast majority of which has been on the Armed Response Unit.

Some people respect what I do for a living, some hate me because I wear the 'Police' badge.

In my 12 years of Policing:
-I have underwent 3 emergency operations because of injuries I sustained whilst on duty.
-I spent 6 months of my life waiting for the outcome of medical results after being stabbed by a junkie with a hypodermic needle.
-I have been stood in the dock with some of my colleagues on a murder charge after a police shooting for doing nothing other than what I am trained to do.
-I have been punched, kicked ect.
-I have been spat at.
-I have been verbally abused more time than I could ever count.

All this pales into insignificance when compared to the effects of spending 99% of your time dealing with 5% of society. This certainly changes you as a person.
I work in an industry where it is almost acceptable for people to treat you anyway they like. However, if you speak the wrong way to someone and they take offence you are treated as if you are guilty unless you can proove differently and hauled over the coals for what most people would class as fair trivial acts.

For this I earn a reasonable wage and receive a very good pension, to which I contribute 11% of my wage to.

Can I justify the terms and conditions that I earn?

Possibly. When compared to a 20 year old squaddie who's lost his legs in Afghanistan for 20k a year then, no I cant.
However, there are a lot of people in the private sector who are financially far better off than I am and have never put their health, safety and family through what I have.

Again though, my arguement is not based around me personally. It is based on the fact that the government promised me and every other public sector worker certain benefit to work for them.


MONKEY Posted on 03/11/2011 12:50
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

prvate sector pensions get changed all the time but you dont see them whining about it

John67 Posted on 03/11/2011 12:54
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Monkey you have balls to set up threads about craic like [^]

MONKEY Posted on 03/11/2011 12:55
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

monkey nuts John

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 03/11/2011 12:57
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

The vast majority of the globe's wealth is controlled by the private sector. The fact that they haven't a clue how to distribute it correctly means the public sector have to pick up the slack in order to keep us away from barbarism.

The poorly controlled private sector is making the world a difficult place. The resources are there, always have been, it's time they were used to suit the needs of the vast majoriy.

MONKEY Posted on 03/11/2011 12:59
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

"The poorly controlled private sector is making the world a difficult place"

Isnt it the poorly controlled public sector (ie Ireland, Greece, Labour Britain etc) that is making the world a difficult place

vuvuzelas Posted on 03/11/2011 13:04
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

I'd agree with that C_t_C

JuninhosMagicHat Posted on 03/11/2011 13:05
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

I worry about the concept of 'poorly controlled private sector' - smells like communism - should it all be state owned then? - in which case, where is the incentive?

MONKEY Posted on 03/11/2011 13:06
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

it wasnt the private sector what massively overspent its income and is now in imovable debts was it

chorleyphil Posted on 03/11/2011 13:16
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

When compared to a 20 year old squaddie who's lost his legs in Afghanistan for 20k a year then, no I cant.


Thats my son's best mate, Kingsman Anthony Cooper. Been a year now and he is recovering well.

Not the right thread, but hey ho.

vuvuzelas Posted on 03/11/2011 13:16
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

No we should never make any moves towards communism but people and industries should be responsible for their own mistakes.

Why should the tax payer have to bail out mega wealthy co-oporations?

Why should the government be able to rip up the contracts of hundereds of thousands of public sector workers and force them into a position where they have to agree to far worse?

NedKat Posted on 03/11/2011 13:17
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Does this reduction in pensions include for those who dwell in the House of Commons ?

What effect are these austerity measures having on the MP's salaries and pensions ?

Smoggy68 Posted on 03/11/2011 13:18
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

As a taxpayer Im pretty annoyed that I pay my taxes to fund public sector employees to not only sit on thier backsides from the age of 60 but also to get into petty arguments most of the day on a football message board.

If all you public sector lot are that fantastic why dont you get some sodding work done instead of spending your time on here.

You need to try having to work for a living. The rest of the country is having to take a hit because of the current financial situation but you lot sit on your backsides and think you should be bloody immune !!!

rivals_oldschool Posted on 03/11/2011 13:23
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Can we just explode this myth that only bankers benefited from the bailout. Everyone with anything to lose did.

Your pension funds, your savings accounts, your share prices would have all tanked without it.

Mostly because much of it was built on thin air. It's not all the bankers fault. Empty political promises like on gold plated pensions are as much to blame.

There's only so much future wealth you can steal for the here and now before it catches up to you.

heaton_mersey_boro Posted on 03/11/2011 13:26
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

"You need to try having to work for a living. The rest of the country is having to take a hit because of the current financial situation but you lot sit on your backsides and think you should be bloody immune !!!"

As someone who has worked both private and public sector I had to laugh at that.[:D]. Fking clueless.

I work more hours / have more responsibility in Public sector than I did in private - for considerably less . And no, i dont have a pension either.

Only perks I have are flexi and a couple of extra days annual leave.

But carry on......[^]

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 03/11/2011 13:26
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

'gold plated pensions '

do you mean the MPs Pensions?

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 03/11/2011 13:28
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

It doesn't need to be state owned, but it needs to recognise that the private sector has a responsibility to maintain living standards for the whole of society.

If we continue with the current philosophy of maximising profit and creating ever decreasing circles of wealth the outcome is obvious.

We gradually moved away from barbarism and towards democracy. The last thirty years have seen a shift in the opposite direction. It's time we reversed the silly trend, ousted the hideous and perpetually wrong economists defending the broken system and instead look for a way to get back on track.

It's time we moved away from the pettiness of public v. private, but let's make the private sector as responsible as the public sector has to be. It's time the world grew up.




Bobby_Braithwaite Posted on 03/11/2011 13:29
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

"as long as public sector workers can do less work for more money they will shaft this country in any way they can."

Some in our office wouldn't last a month in the public sector (based on my experience of working in both).

Good luck to them, they took their jobs in the expectation of getting the pension they'd been promised. Many in the private sector would have had similar pensions if it weren't for the fact the wouldn't stand up and fight for what they had.

vuvuzelas Posted on 03/11/2011 13:29
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Smoggy68, Im not at work.

Rivals
"Your pension funds, your savings accounts, your share prices would have all tanked without it."

Savings accounts, Share prices - its the people with money who benefitted most from this. Not the average man in the street.

Smoggy68 Posted on 03/11/2011 13:32
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

''Only perks I have are flexi and a couple of extra days annual leave.''

Having one of your couple of weeks sick leave are you mate ? Or just on an extended lunch ?

Get to work - Im paying your wages ! :)

Dibzzz Posted on 03/11/2011 13:36
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

They say that we're all living longer so we need to work longer.

What a load of shyte.

My Grandad died at the age of 48, he was gassed in the war.

FartingGnome Posted on 03/11/2011 13:43
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

""I dont really want to say what I do because it's not about me personally"

Obviously a pen-pusher then....[^]
"

Well done Arthur, you've seen the response.

Your call

JuninhosMagicHat Posted on 03/11/2011 14:10
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

"It's time we moved away from the pettiness of public v. private, but let's make the private sector as responsible as the public sector has to be. It's time the world grew up."

I love this kind of thing - anyone can spout stuff - how about some alternatives - that would work? - I'd be much more supportive of this kind of thing if I ever heard any practical alternatives to the current system!
I have often tried to think of some myself but I keep coming back to why communism failed - human trait - greed!

vuvuzelas Posted on 03/11/2011 14:18
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

JuninhosMagicHat.

Is it greed to expect a government to adhear to the terms and condition that they promised to public sector workers?

We're not asking for an upgrade or for better terms. We' are simply asking that they stand by their word.

chorleyphil Posted on 03/11/2011 14:27
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

When you talk 'private sector' are you also refering to contractors?

Because if anyone wanted to downgrade my terms, I'd be off like a shot.

Stick to your guns Public sector [^]

No pun intended Vuvuzelas ! [smi]

Holgate69 Posted on 03/11/2011 14:44
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Channel4, what an absolute fool.
JuninhosMagicHat 9-5 your joking as a public servant for almost 33 years, in all my career I have worked 9-5 for a total of 3 years.
I work in Mental Health and most of my staff and accross the NHS earn nder 18k a year.

In fact lots of the patients I care (in 24 hour care) receive get more in benefits per month than the Health Care staff who look after them.

This myth of gold plated pensions is simply not true

Holgate69 Posted on 03/11/2011 14:55
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

JuninhosMagicHat
"who will pay for the pensions" " the taxpayer"
The NHS an organisation I have been proud to work for is the biggest employer in Europe, all of its emplyees PAY TAX, as do all public servants. We are expected as everyone else to work longer beacuse we are living longer, therfore pay more tax to get the same benfits.

B-MAN Posted on 03/11/2011 15:04
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

I work in the public sector and got my pension prediction/options book the other week. If I make it to 65 I'm going to have a comfortable retirement, maybe we should all pay a bit more, or work a few years more etc I could stomach that but the proposals, I think, are a bit to dramatic. No more final salary pension, work an extra 3 years, pay more.....one of those I could take, but not all 3.
And protecting people set to retire in 10 years or less, I think thats unfair. Classic divide and conquer from the Government, whatever they decide on or the unions agree on should be accross the board.

vuvuzelas Posted on 03/11/2011 15:05
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

chorley [smi]

The trouble is though chorley is once you have worked in a public sector industry for any length of time you can't realistically leave. This is the problem that alot of people in the public sector have now and the government are exploiting it. This is why I used the terminology 'dedicating your working career' earlier in the thread.

As a public sector worker I have gained certain qualifications or a certain skill set that is almost unique to my role and my career. These qualifications are almost completely useless and irrelevant to any other employer.

hewielewie Posted on 03/11/2011 15:22
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

"As a public sector worker I have gained certain qualifications or a certain skill set that is almost unique to my role and my career. These qualifications are almost completely useless and irrelevant to any other employer."

As a firearms officer I would hope your skill set is useless and irrelevant to 99% of other professions [:O]

spurticus Posted on 03/11/2011 15:57
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Why arent all these private sector workers[cr][:(] rushing for public sector[:D][:P] work if it's so fkn cushty......

Private sector workers should consider trying to improve their T & C's, rather than attack other peoples....we all pay tax ffs...

This pensions bollox is a distraction from the reality that the kvnts in charge have spunnked all our taxes, and now theyre dippin the pensions...bit of divide and conquer mentality with the working public, race to the bottom....mental [sad]

vuvuzelas Posted on 03/11/2011 15:57
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

The point I was trying to make mate is if I worked for a company in the private sector, say IT for example. There would be maybe 10 or 20 different companies where the qualifications I have gained would be useful to. Working in the public sector this option is not available to us and the government is exploiting it. Its also illegal for Police Officers to take industrial action so we barely have a voice.
Quite simply the government is taking the michael out of us.

John67 Posted on 03/11/2011 16:08
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Me and you were in accord until you posted,"illegal for Police Officers to take industrial action so we barely have a voice.
Quite simply the government is taking the michael out of us " You have the strongest union in the UK in the police federation and comparatively police pay and conditions have massively out stripped any other public sector job apart from MP's since the 1980's.

John67 Posted on 03/11/2011 16:11
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Forgot to add, that I have a great deal of respect for the job you do and I wouldn't do it.

blindschool Posted on 03/11/2011 16:16
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

'Why arent all these private sector workers[cr][:(] rushing for public sector[:D][:P] work if it's so fkn cushty.....'

Maybe it's because people who work in the public sector like doing jobs that help others in society. Maybe they find satisfaction in contributing to society rather than just thinking about themselves and their own needs.

vuvuzelas Posted on 03/11/2011 16:21
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Thats depends on which other public sector you are comparing us to John.

Alot of public sector workers dont work shifts. In the private sector shift allowance is valued at around 8-10k. We dont receive a penny extra for working shifts (and Im guessing neither do anyother public sector worker). If you take that 8-10k off your wage, its a pretty poor basic wage. Then add to that, 11% of our wage is paid into our pension, far more than anyother public sector worker.

Our union like every other union are poor in these circumstances, John. The Federation are really only any use to us officers when we are facing complaints. They have a voice in such circumstances which is inevitably ignored by the powers that be.

vambo Posted on 03/11/2011 16:24
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

the thing is most working men die before they get there fair share of a pension i mean manual workers

vuvuzelas Posted on 03/11/2011 16:25
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Thats very true vambo.

Ive had a right whinge on here today [cr]

John67 Posted on 03/11/2011 16:27
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Vuv I am full of flu and therfore have just had a couple of large brandy's so best ignore my last post....you seem like a half decent bloke and I shouldn't let my own predjudices get in the way of the bigger picture. Sorry about that [^]

spurticus Posted on 03/11/2011 16:32
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Maybe it's because people who work in the public sector like doing jobs that help others in society. Maybe they find satisfaction in contributing to society rather than just thinking about themselves and their own needs

I agree totally..Big Dave and probably all the labour doyles come to think of it, have a plan for volunteers to take up a lot of the slack[;)]

Ultimately who is it that owns all these private companies that are dishing out $hitty pensions? Serious question.

vuvuzelas Posted on 03/11/2011 16:44
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

No probs john [^]

redwurzel Posted on 03/11/2011 18:00
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

I work in a College and I am part of the teachers pension scheme.

I am expected to retire at 67 and will pay 9.5% of my salary into my pension (currently 6.5%) my employer puts in 8%. Central Government puts in nothing.


If Iput in for 20 years I will get 25% of my final salary plus 75% lump sum payment.

When in the private sector my pension was more generous and I was paid more and worked less. I worked to the factory hooter.

bblf Posted on 03/11/2011 18:54
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

This new offer was made hours before the Unison vote was closed. As it was a postal vote we all voted on the previous information. What a clever governmnet move.
Oh by the way Im a senior Nurse . I have just had a prediction on my pension sent to me from my employers after I requested it.
It was exactly half what the Government were saying a senior nurse would get on TV yesterday.

Chris_From_Pitchside Posted on 03/11/2011 19:32
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

I'm a public sector worker and I'll be striking.

The government is looking to take the measures to save 3.2bn. In the last financial year the bankers paid themselves 14bn in bonuses alone. I would think these bankers will most probably be on a far higher basic wage than my frozen 25,000 a year.

The Government is trying to squeeze the lower middle / working classes and play the Public Sector off against the Private Sector whilst the people at the top continue to do what the XXXXXX they like.

I'm not sure where the government are getting that an average teacher will get a pension of 25,000 a year either?

I've put my predicted earnings into the calculator (with a few deserved promotions in there to boost my wage) and mine is under half this figure.

vuvuzelas Posted on 03/11/2011 19:46
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Hit the nail squarely on the head there CFP [^]

outmac Posted on 03/11/2011 19:47
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

the 'don't work shifts' comment , 35 years
as a nurse , not only shifts but Bank holidays , Christmas , New Years , etc.
My pension is'nt anywhere near that figure
quoted ,the one for teachers that is .
Chris. , your right playing us off v Private
sector.
They had the choice .

09_dave_09 Posted on 03/11/2011 19:52
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

To the police officer your not the only public servants who pay 11% or more speak to the firefighters. The police were not overly sympathetic to the students when they protested over government cuts. Charging them with horses if I remember. Now yous are been cut you play the we can't strike card. Your a tory army when needed proven by the past.

rivals_oldschool Posted on 03/11/2011 19:58
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Must say, I lost interest when people started equating public service as being next to godliness. [rle]

Work for free then if your that noble.


superstu Posted on 03/11/2011 20:01
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Ahahaha, what a bunch of morons Rivals, Pringle and JMH have been here. If you're public sector your taxes don't count as taxes, unless you're a soldier! Anyone who has ever worked using a pen doesn't know about the REAL WORLD! You're all a bunch of "I'm alright Jack" Communists somehow! What's the country need teachers for anyway!?

09_dave_09 Posted on 03/11/2011 20:19
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Anyone who has pushed a pen doesn't know the real world.........That if it is a serious comment is the most stupid thing I have ever heard. Them doctors don't know it, scientists devolping anti cancer drugs, pensions are created by people using pens, cars designed and sewerage systems also. If people were not sat behind desks we would still be in the dark ages.

vuvuzelas Posted on 03/11/2011 20:48
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Dave

"To the police officer your not the only public servants who pay 11% or more speak to the firefighters. The police were not overly sympathetic to the students when they protested over government cuts. Charging them with horses if I remember. Now yous are been cut you play the we can't strike card. Your a tory army when needed proven by the past."

I dont really know where to start with a comment like that.

"The police were not overly sympathetic to the students when they protested over government cuts."
How do you know that? Did you do a secret poll of police officers when you came to that conclusion or is it just a sweeping statement you've made with no foundation because it suits your arguement?

"Charging them with horses if I remember."
Is that because the students involved had a certain opinion or because they were breaking the law? Plenty of buildings were smashed up and officers attacked in those disturbances.
The police dealing with people engaged in criminal activity! Whatever next?

"Now yous are been cut you play the we can't strike card."
It is a fact that the police are one of very few services who cannot strike. It is a right that has been taken away from us and makes us an easy target for the government.

"Your a tory army when needed proven by the past."
The mere fact that you have made that statement on this thread is hilarious.
The police uphold the laws of the land no matter which party is in power.

It must be great to be as ignorant as you are Dave. The world must be such a simple place to live.
[:D]

09_dave_09 Posted on 03/11/2011 20:54
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Like the 8 striking miners who died at the hands of the police the last time the blue party made you up hold their laws. I do understand the job you do as I have worked along side yous hundreds of times. But can't you see the way you treat protesters is abit rich when you are fighting the same battles. I was been over the top to make a point. I wouldn't want your job as it is one of the hardest mentally in my opinion and changes you as a person, also the hypocrasy involved in being in the police force would kill me.

rivals_oldschool Posted on 03/11/2011 22:08
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

I still don't quite get the difficulty in the 'you don't pay tax' acceptance.

Your salary only comes from two places:

1) what has already been taxed

2) the money markets when the Government has to borrow for it.

The second option is far worse since we only then have to pay back this money at a premium.

So really the rest of us get clobbered twice just so you guys get paid. The mere fact you then give a little bit back at the end of the month is meaningless.

We borrow more than what you give back. You contribute nowt!

outoftowned Posted on 03/11/2011 22:11
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

so where does the sparky, who does work for the nurse, get the money from?

two_banks_of_four Posted on 03/11/2011 22:20
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

essentially from himself, well him and every other privately employed tax payer.

Conceptually it is right to say that public sector workers pay no tax, but as a fair number of public sector employees do jobs that are pretty essential it is not really much of a point.

rivals_oldschool Posted on 03/11/2011 22:23
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

The productive side of the economy.

The public sector is only a 'service'. You consume, you don't manufacture or sell.

outoftowned Posted on 03/11/2011 22:36
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

T-B-O-F .. I get it

Arthur_Pringle Posted on 03/11/2011 22:41
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Just get on with it you lazy greedy pen pushers.Welcome to the real world[:D][;)][^]

oooooo Posted on 03/11/2011 22:41
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Doctors, nurses, soldiers, policemen, firemen, teachers...

Yeah, those bloody evil public sector workers!

Of course, private sector workers are happy to have pressure put on their wages so the man at the top can get a bigger profit from your industry. Sorry, profit comes first and you come second. Your government needs your help to inflict to same fate on public sector workers because they won't bend over and accept it like you did.

And that's from someone who works in the private sector.

09_dave_09 Posted on 03/11/2011 22:45
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Don't contribute? Imagine a country with absolutely no public sector. The tax point only works to a certain level, as essentially all the money has originated from government so at some level your tax is paying for your self public or private. The two are so intangled that there isn't a clear line as to who is contributing more. Look at how the contsruction trade (private) has been damaged by the public sector not investing in new schools and hospitals etc. So are them contruction workers not paying tax as all there income for the next ten years would have been from the public sector?

boromike85 Posted on 03/11/2011 23:10
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

It all just sounds like jealousy to be honest. Private sector workers crying because they don't get the things they should so instead of standing up and fighting for them they want everyone else to lose out as well. Who wins in this situation? The people at the top of course, who they should be fighting against. They have managed to get the private sector workers to fight the fight for them.

Some people really are clueless. As if public sector employees don't pay tax. Private sector is much more of a drain on the economy than the public sector. Public sector operates without taking a profit. All proceeds go towards essential services and they also pay the wages of people who then put their money back into the economy. The private sector however has someone at the top taking money out of the system and keeping it for themselves.


petrio Posted on 04/11/2011 00:03
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Some real rubbish spouted on here. Firstly, public sector workers DO pay tax. In fact, a hell of a lot. Unless that 400 odd that I saw on my last wage slip was imagined...
Secondly, we, as public sector workers, signed up to one thing and now that's too good for us so it'll be taken away. That can't be right.
More importantly though, I'm 33 and I teach junior school children. I am stressed like you wouldn't believe by the pressures put on by government, senior management, parents, middle management, etc, etc... Then you want me, and my colleagues to work in a classroom with 30 children until we are 68... Really???

I wouldn't want a 68 year old with my kids all day, every day. That is pure madness.

I don't mind paying a bit more, or even getting a little bit less, but working with a class of 30 children into my 60's?

degsyspesh Posted on 04/11/2011 00:17
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

There is a simple equation going on here. A pension fund is like a big pot, people pay money into it while they work and take it out when they retire until they die.

The current system was set up when life expectancy beyond retirement averaged about 5 years, Now it averages in excess of 20. So basically people are taking over 4 times as much out of the pension pot than it was originally designed for - but are they putting 4 times as much in to compensate??? Are they f'ck.

This isn't just a private sector problem or a public sector problem - it is an issue with society that we are all living longer and as such need to pay drastically more into our pension funds if we want to be paid the same rate of pension for a vastly expended period of time.

The private sector has pretty much sorted itself out over this issue and now its the public sectors turn. I don't think that the private sector are jealous as such as they can all see very clearly that final salary schemes will stop and it is just a matter of when not if. Those people who are lucky enough to hang onto their final salary schemes will, on average, withdraw far more money than they paid in - however this will be wholly at the expense of younger people in the scheme who will have to make up the shortfall.

If I was in the public sector I too would be fighting very hard to keep the current situation in place as it is very lucrative and far far better than what the alternative will be. I don't blame anyone for standing up to this - but it is a sad fact that ultimately you will lose. You have to, there is no alternative.

Also, I have to say that this is one of the most clueless things I've ever read on here....:

"Private sector is much more of a drain on the economy than the public sector."


PMSL. [:D][:D][:D]

outoftowned Posted on 04/11/2011 00:23
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

the twisted thing about it all is, the "problem" is sold as people are living longer.

Wonder who helps this happen?[cr]

oooooo Posted on 04/11/2011 00:24
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

You're conveniently forgetting the private banking sector and the bailouts.

Emmersons_BrazillianDong Posted on 04/11/2011 00:25
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Perhaps a tad off topic but I was always under the impression the police and fire brigade didn't get on because the police always covered for fire fighters when they decided to go on strike?

outoftowned Posted on 04/11/2011 00:29
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

nope .. its cos women prefer them, they got four on/four off and a 2nd job[:D]

oooooo Posted on 04/11/2011 00:31
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

The police don't have the right to strike. Nor do the army who are normally the ones doing the covering, surely?

degsyspesh Posted on 04/11/2011 00:34
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

"You're conveniently forgetting the private banking sector and the bailouts."

The true cost of bailing out the banking sector to date stands at 124Bn. BUT, that is in the form of share purchases and loans - the vast majority of which should (eventually) be returned. All the figures quoted above that number are promises to underwrite the banks if needed. So far they haven't been and there is no sign that they will be.

The financial services sector generates tax revenues of around 70Bn a year - and as such has happily generated huge surpluses of money for the country to enjoy over the past decades. The cost of the bailout is relative peanuts compared to the revenue that has been generated over time.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 04/11/2011 00:37
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

"The financial services sector generates tax revenues of around 70Bn a year"

What about the money they DON'T pay in tax that they SHOULD be paying?

degsyspesh Posted on 04/11/2011 00:43
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

... indeed. Close the loopholes, but then the banks will just move somewhere else and we'll lose the revenue.

As unpalatable as much of the banking industry is right now, the fact remains that is one of the few strengths that we have as a country. I agree that the regulation of the banks over the last decade has been shambolic and needs tightening up - but we need to be very very careful.

outoftowned Posted on 04/11/2011 00:50
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

thats why the public sector is justified and there is no shame

degsyspesh Posted on 04/11/2011 00:52
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

is there no shame or is it just pragmatism?

The bankers pay for getting on for three-quarters of the NHS.......

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 04/11/2011 00:55
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Perhaps the most frustrating thing is that right now we have a great opportunity to make real progress with regards to financial policy. It's the fact nobody in politics is being honest that is driving people up the wall, and that's why these protests are springing up all over the world. We need to move away from the ridiculous over-reliance we have on the banking sector, a reliance that's been growing and growing for thirty-odd years, and begin to put the wealth into the hands of the people if we really want to move forward.

The problem is that the current system is so corrupt, so under-hand, disingenuous, so powerful and wealthy that it feels practically impossible to actually do anything about it.

Sorry, I know that's a very simplistic viewpoint, and not exactly 'on topic' with regards to the rest of thread, but I had to get it off my chest.

degsyspesh Posted on 04/11/2011 01:03
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

VAN - totally agree.

I firmly believe that pretty much everything in life goes in cycles. Starting with Thatcher coming into power in 1979 the true power has been transfered from the government to the market.

I'm a firm believer in a largely open and free market that lives and dies as the market dictates. BUT, I am also a firm believer that controls and regulation needs to be in place to safeguard the nations interests and it is this that has been perpetually eroded over the last decade. The market has become too powerful and to divorced from any control.

br14 Posted on 04/11/2011 02:08
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

The people wanted bigger and bigger mortgages and the bankers gave them the money.

The people wanted better and better social benefits and Labour gave them the money.

The result is Britain has massive private and public sector debt and no one has any spare cash to kick start the economy.

And everyone blames the bankers. Because no one wants to accept responsibility when in fact just about everyone is at fault. (And you can apply the same rules to Greece etc).

Bankers may be evil greedy XXXXXXs, but they need a fertile public of similarly evil greedy XXXXXXs to make money.

Public sector pensions are indexed linked. Not too many private sector pensions as good - whatever the start point.

The problem for Western economies is that they've become completely dependent on imported cheap asian manufactured goods (and outsourced services), and no longer generate the wealth needed to pay for them.

Europeans and North Americans need to get used to being worse off because China and India aren't going to need us for much longer. Within a decade or so when their domestic economies are big enough they'll stop lending us the money to buy their products.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 04/11/2011 07:19
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

The public sector is only a 'service'. You consume, you don't manufacture or sell.

Selling is only a service too, the majority of the private sector don't produce. We moved away, as part of a political philosophy, from being a nation that produced some time ago....though I'm not surprised that you missed that important turning point in the nation's economic history...it doesn't suit your argument one bit.

MKredleaderOne Posted on 04/11/2011 09:23
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

What no one seems to be telling you is that these people pay income tax on their pension and also probably don't get any benefits from the Government.

Is anyone taking this into account when doing their sums?

BigCasino Posted on 04/11/2011 09:29
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Ha! told yer this was a 150 minimum.

TartanSmogmonster Posted on 04/11/2011 10:55
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

FAO 09 Dave 09

"Like the 8 striking miners who died at the hands of the police the last time the blue party made you up hold their laws. I do understand the job you do as I have worked along side yous hundreds of times. But can't you see the way you treat protesters is abit rich when you are fighting the same battles. I was been over the top to make a point. I wouldn't want your job as it is one of the hardest mentally in my opinion and changes you as a person, also the hypocrasy involved in being in the police force would kill me."

Are you for real or are you just looking for a bite?

This country is the softest in the world in the way in which the Police deal with riots. It's only a few short months since the Police were roundly criticised for being too soft on rioters. Or would you like to see them become even softer?

If somebody threw a fire extinguisher from a high rise onto the head of a family member of your's, how would you like the police to react, chase them down the street with a feather duster?

As for the 8 striking miners killed by the police, get a grip. Better still, give the world some evidence. You cannot accuse people of the ultimate crime without evidence or justification. Post the names of those killed and alongside print your evidence or go away. Alternatively we could use this forum to accuse you of being a child sex offernder, but there again that would never happen because a) there is no evidence, and b) folk wouldn't lower themselves to your level [:o)]

09_dave_09 Posted on 04/11/2011 11:23
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Treating the rioters softly yes but your getting protesting and rioting totally mixed up but why would I expect anything different. What I was saying is if the police disagreed with the cuts so much then maybe they wouldnt kettle peaceful protesters or charge them with horses. So are you saying the police didnt over act with the miners in the 80s??? By evidence do you mean what police are supposed to collect? As it would incriminate one of your own it rarely happens.


br14 Posted on 04/11/2011 12:41
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

" We moved away, as part of a political philosophy, from being a nation that produced some time ago"

Not strictly true. Though most heavy manufacturing has gone. Check out the UK National Statistics office site for the facts.

UK manufacturing represents around 12pc of GDP. Financial services only 9pc.

Having said that the use of robots mean there's nowhere near the number of jobs there used to be.

vuvuzelas Posted on 04/11/2011 14:56
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Dave your arguements are based purely on your prejudices. You have not countered the orginal arguement at all as to why public service workers should just allow the government to change the terms and conditions of the contracts they agreed to.

Quotes like
"So are you saying the police didnt over act with the miners in the 80s???"
are ridiculous. How many serving police officers today where involved in an incident almost 30 years ago?
Should I not be due the pension I was promised when I signed up to the job because of something the police dealt with when I was 5 years old, 15 years before I joined the service. If thats the case how far back do you go? Should squaddies be accountable for our historical invasions?

This whole debate is far bigger than the police. Its about a collective group of people such as nurses, teachers, doctors, firefighters, military personnel ect. That is the reason why I didnt want to say what I did for a living when Arthur asked me. This thread has completely lost course and should focus on why a government should be allowed to lie to its workers and be allowed to renege on deals they've made.

jam69 Posted on 04/11/2011 15:28
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

if all those self employed tradesmen/women in the private sector paid their taxes instead of saying "well its 100,but tell you what give me cash in hand and we will call it 85" the country might not be in so much trouble

carlosfandango Posted on 04/11/2011 16:59
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Sorry to say that the days of the final salary pension have passed. Get over it, you live longer you have to work longer or pay more.

If you think you can do better with your 3% - 6% or even in the case of the fire/police 11%,be my guest. Public sector pensions will still be better than the majority private sector pensions.

If you think its fair for someone to subsidise council workers pension funds with council tax your pxxxed.

Chris_From_Pitchside Posted on 04/11/2011 17:44
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

"Sorry to say that the days of the final salary pension have passed. Get over it, you live longer you have to work longer or pay more.

If you think you can do better with your 3% - 6% or even in the case of the fire/police 11%,be my guest. Public sector pensions will still be better than the majority private sector pensions.

If you think its fair for someone to subsidise council workers pension funds with council tax your pxxxed."

The Teachers' Pension Scheme was running at a surplus until Gordon Brown raided it and spent the money elsewhere. The terms of the pensions were also adapted in 2007 to ensure they continued to be sustainable.

Now the economy has gone tits up we're the ones footing the bill while Davey C's private school mates sit in their Kent Mansions having wild drug fuelled orgies with expensive hookers whilst setting fire to 50 notes.

MKredleaderOne Posted on 04/11/2011 17:55
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

It was the Tories in th 80's who encouraged councils not to contribute their share to pension funds as they had such vast amounts in surplus instead of paying out more. Did those who paid less Poll Tax as a consequence object?

Now it has gone the other way why do they think they should be allowed to cut the benefits staff signed up for?


vuvuzelas Posted on 04/11/2011 17:56
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

"Sorry to say that the days of the final salary pension have passed. Get over it, you live longer you have to work longer or pay more.

If you think you can do better with your 3% - 6% or even in the case of the fire/police 11%,be my guest. Public sector pensions will still be better than the majority private sector pensions.

If you think its fair for someone to subsidise council workers pension funds with council tax your pxxxed."

Its fair that the government adhear to the the contracts they agreed to.

If they no longer wnat to hand such contracts out then they hand new public service employees reviewed contracts. Then they have the option to choose to accept them or take another career path.

09_dave_09 Posted on 04/11/2011 19:18
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

I support your argument to keep the conditions you signed for like I said I used to be in the fire service and they have the same battles ahead I fear. In fact I used to be a union rep and when you had your issues over money owed 2 years ago the fire brigades union supported you. It just annoys me some times when the police treat people with similar issues as criminals. I hope you keep your conditions as I have a few friends in the police service and feel for you lot.

The argument saying these pensions arent affordable is not true dont believe everything you read. The fire brigade pension was profitable until the labour government used the capital in it to pay for road and rail repairs. Now when there is nothing left its unaffordable.

flaps Posted on 04/11/2011 19:41
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Has anyone pointed out yet that this attack on public sector pensions is idealogical rather than based on a financial need and that rags like the Daily Mail are for simpletons, begging to be brainwashed?

br14 Posted on 04/11/2011 20:24
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

"this attack on public sector pensions is idealogical rather than based on a financial need"

You're suggesting that public sector pensions are actually fully funded and will not be a burden on the tax payer in future?

I was under the impression public sector pensions are in general based on final salaries, which makes them immune from the vagaries of the market - unlike private sector pensions which are now largely based on fund performance.

In addition many of the public sector pension commitments are paid from current tax revenues, which means your kids will pay the burden of your public sector pension. Kids that are part of an ever decreasing tax paying population.

If the public sector does not agree to some moderate reassessment of their pensions, what will actually happen is that our children will refuse to pay. Largely because they won't be able to afford to pay. Just when you need your pension the most, it will disappear.

I'd have thought the current madness in Europe would have educated people that you really cannot have what you cannot afford. And that there is a finite limit to how much of your childrens future you can borrow against. But evidently there are still people who believe otherwise and are willing to destroy their own futures and those of future generations to win an argument.

flaps Posted on 04/11/2011 23:26
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Last time I looked the local government pension fund was cash rich to the tune of around 180 billion pounds.

Even before any 'reforms' the current scheme represents a low proportion of GDP now, and into the future.

Public sector pensions are affordable.

You talk about education? Swallowing Daily Mail dogma is not an education.


Link: Education, courtesy of the OECD.

100Rod100 Posted on 04/11/2011 23:34
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

"If they no longer wnat to hand such contracts out then they hand new public service employees reviewed contracts. Then they have the option to choose to accept them or take another career path"

jesus wept.

MKredleaderOne Posted on 04/11/2011 23:41
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

br14

You obviously have no idea how public sector pension work, before making rash statements get to know and understand the facts.

redwurzel Posted on 05/11/2011 01:16
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

I bring money into this country by teaching overseas students.

While many private sector workers do not bring any overseas earnings.

Too many people in the media and on here assume people in the private sector work harder, for less and earn export money - just like Freddie Goodwin did [:(]

BoroInLondon Posted on 05/11/2011 09:28
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

I'm a public sector worker (having turned my nose up at a higher paid job in the private sector) and I'll be going on strike. I'm only 28 and haven't paid into my pension for that long, so I'm not massively affected by what is going on.

But I'm going to strike for the woman in my school who has worked for 30 odd years, given her life to teaching and is now being told she can't retire until she's 68, with a reduced pension and higher contributions. She isn't the only one and it's absolutely scandalous.

We work in an inner London school which is demanding - so demanding that elderly people should not have to work in them. It's not a desk job, it's a 50 hour a week, physically demanding job.

If we allow this government to walk all over us, this will only be the beginning. Do you think if they get their way with pensions that will be the end of it?

No one takes these decisions lightly. Teachers aren't millionaires and they're not paid when they go on strike, at a time when we are being squeezed from every angle.

Believe it or not, I didn't get into teaching for the financial rewards and money most definitely isn't my first priority, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't fight for what we're entitled to. We have to honour our contracts, just as employers should.

ron_manager Posted on 05/11/2011 09:34
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

BoroInLondon[^]

joseph99 Posted on 05/11/2011 09:48
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

I am private sector and have mainly interacted with other businesses in the private sector.

Without going into details I have been doing business with one massive organisation in the public sector over the last 2 years, and I have to say I have never come across such a bunch of bureaucratic, slow, incomptenent, unproductive, politically-driven, lazy, risk averse tossers in all my working life. Not suggesting every organisation in the public sector is the same but dealing with one massive organisation doesn't leave a particularly pleasant taste in my mouth.

The number of hits on this thread during office hours doesn't exactly fly in the face of my point.

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 05/11/2011 09:54
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

There's a lot of disinformation appearing on this thread, most of which is peddled by the government, which is outrageous in itself.

PS pensions didn't create the current financial crisis, in fact they didn't even contribute to it - they have always been sustainable, like teachers pensions for example.

The cuts to the pensions are purely to bail the country out, but when we begin to see growth again you can be sure that the terms and conditions won't be restored.

It's scandalous and what's the most disappointing is that many people seem to support he government. I'm sure they wouldn't if the private sector had to make like-for-like cuts.

ABCD Posted on 05/11/2011 10:01
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

"The cuts to the pensions are purely to bail the country out"

PMSL [cr]

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 05/11/2011 10:07
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

"PMSL"

It's hard to argue with such a compelling arguement [:o)]

BoroPhil Posted on 05/11/2011 10:37
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

"Not suggesting every organisation in the public sector is the same"

your 'point' is pointless and just a non-amusing anecdote then, as you say yourself your experience with one organisation doesn't really allow you to tar the whole of the public sector with the same brush.

It's unbelievable how the Tories are trying (and seemingly succeeding) to set the people of this country against one another. How can people morally argue that teachers, nurses, low paid council workers should be forced to scrap their agreed pensions and get a much worse deal in return? The whole country should be fighting against this. It's really sad.


jam69 Posted on 05/11/2011 10:53
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

i work in the private sector,but i back the public sector workers who are being shat on to pay for the mistakes of others who either get off scot free or even rewarded with a bonus.
its time for people to stand up to this unfair govenment.close the tax loop holes,keep inheritance tax and hit the banks who put us in this mess instead of attacking the working classes to look after your chums in the city

ron_manager Posted on 05/11/2011 10:57
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

200 back of the net.[:P]

joseph99 Posted on 05/11/2011 11:10
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

If I'm having a pop Phil it's at the institutionalised mentality in the massive body I've been dealing with, and that pop is at those who embrace that kind of business culture.

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 05/11/2011 11:21
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

"The number of hits on this thread during office hours doesn't exactly fly in the face of my point"

What a very insulting comment, one based on very limited evidence I think you accept.

I work in the public sector, I work most of my weekend at home last week, 12 hour days this week (as well as some work at home on an evening) and I've had to bring work hom this weekend as well.

I also have the benefit of working with private sector organisations and in my experience there is good and bad in both regards, albeit the private sector seem to be paid much better for what they do.

ZippytheHippy Posted on 05/11/2011 12:49
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

For someone in the private sector to get the same pension as a public sector worker they would need to contribut almost 40% not 3%.

i guess whaen cameron said "were all in this together" he did not mean MP's and public sector workers.

outoftowned Posted on 05/11/2011 16:13
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

"For someone in the private sector to get the same pension as a public sector worker they would need to contribute almost 40% not 3%."

absolute nonsense..... unless you believe the daily mail

planetburgerland2 Posted on 05/11/2011 16:42
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Im a public sector worker, these are the reasons i am striking...

1) An increase of 3% in your contributions phased over 3 years starting April 2012. This to be 1% increase per year.

2) A reduction of the Employers contribution of 0.2% to bring it down to a 14% cap.
A point of information here. The Hutton report showed that the current contributions which the Treasury collects per annum is 2 Billion more than it is currently paying out.

3) The Superannuation retirement age to come in line with the increase in State retirement age. Currently I believe this to be age 66 by 2020 and age 67 by 2036.

4) The amount of pension to be calculated by a career average calculation instead of currently the best of your last 3 or 10 years (Depending if you have remained in the 1995 scheme or transferred to the 2008 scheme). For most people this will be a significant reduction in your pension.

5) On receiving your pension at present it increases along with the RPI (Retail Price Index). The proposed change is to link annual increases with the CPI (Consumer Price Index). As the RPI has always shown a greater annual increase than the CPI increase this will in effect mean that your pension will devalue year on year.

ZippytheHippy Posted on 05/11/2011 17:31
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

On average public sector staff to get a pension worth two thirds of their average salary despite most contributing less than 10 per cent of their pay towards it.

Most civil servants contribute around 1.5% with the government contributing around 19%. The average for a private sector is 3% with an employer contribution of around 6.9%.

so says the Hutton report.

"The release of Lord Hutton's report into public sector pension schemes perfectly illustrates how an explosion in the number of public-sector workers in the UK has contributed to an ever-growing liability for UK taxpayers. The vast majority of public-sector pension arrangements are based on an employee's final salary which can often bear little or no resemblance to the potential investment return on the pension funds in question. The truth is that the public sector is guaranteed by the UK taxpayer and boom and bust periods in the UK economy have no impact upon funding arrangements. However, boom and bust scenarios have a major impact upon private companies which can in many cases lead to pension fund deficits and cash flow problems. When you also take into account the fact that private pension funds are invested in the stock market in the UK and worldwide assets for the future, thereby exposing them to the varying rates of return, this can and does have a major impact upon the final funding available to each and every pension scheme member.

Final salary pension schemes are few and far between in the private sector today despite the fact they are commonplace in the public sector. The UK government needs to reduce the difference between public sector pension payments and private sector pension payments otherwise more and more UK taxpayers will be funding public sector arrangements while they struggle to arrange their own funding for the future. "

I hope that you all go on strike on the 30th, you will then realise how little support the rest of the country outside of teesside has for you. The public sector in this country is bloated beyond sustainability.

100Rod100 Posted on 05/11/2011 20:34
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

"On average public sector staff to get a pension worth two thirds of their average salary despite most contributing less than 10 per cent of their pay towards it"

well that sounds bollox as i was told mine would equate to what what was in my pension fund....

ExFootyLegs Posted on 05/11/2011 21:35
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

channel 4 represents the way in which the right wing controls this country - government, press...vvankers and the right wing are what is bringing this country to its knees through greed nd keeping normal folk down...

ZippytheHippy Posted on 05/11/2011 21:43
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

ExFootyLegs

Simpleton

"well that sounds bollox as i was told mine would equate to what what was in my pension fund."

Well I guess the ex LABOUR MP?MINISTER AND LABOUR LORD HUTTON is wrong then.

br14 Posted on 06/11/2011 03:24
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

Link below is from that renowned right wing organisation the BBC.

"Most public servants, with the exception of local government staff and university lecturers, are members of unfunded pension schemes in which the pensions are paid for out of general taxation"



Link: Public sector pension liabilities top 1 trillion

vuvuzelas Posted on 06/11/2011 21:10
the greed of the public sector worker.........shame on you

""If they no longer wnat to hand such contracts out then they hand new public service employees reviewed contracts. Then they have the option to choose to accept them or take another career path"

jesus wept."

Explain???????