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StLewi Posted on 02/09/2011 14:08
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

I know this has probably been done to death but it's that time of year again and all the programmes are on telly etc.

What does everyone reckon?

I honestly don't know, if you watch these conspiracy videos on YouTube the evidence of an inside job is astounding.

darlonorth Posted on 02/09/2011 14:11
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

Terrorist Attack.

Midosparmo Posted on 02/09/2011 14:12
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

If it was it was too clever to have been dreamed up by George Bush. Unless him appearing thick was all part of the plot [xx(]

atkingson Posted on 02/09/2011 14:12
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

Inside job mate.

The world trade centre was specifically designed to withstand collision with aircrafts and yet one plane fly's into it and it's destroyed? Rubbish.

I reckon the buldings were rigged with explosives from top to bottom - I think both Al Queda and the Us Government were in on it.

The way to control the masses is to put fear into them and what better way to do that than to use terrorism?

I imagine Bin Laden and the US government had an agreement on what would happen and how - I think Usama sent his own men in in planes and the planes were just decoys to avert peoples attention away from the exploding bombs from inside the building.

EpiphanyProudfoot Posted on 02/09/2011 14:13
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

Idiot.

flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 14:15
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

"The world trade centre was specifically designed to withstand collision with aircrafts"

No.

"I reckon the buldings were rigged with explosives from top to bottom "

Ridiculous

" I think Usama sent his own men in in planes and the planes were just decoys to avert peoples attention away from the exploding bombs from inside the building."

idiocy

EpiphanyProudfoot Posted on 02/09/2011 14:16
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

Atkingson......You are a disaster.

atkingson Posted on 02/09/2011 14:16
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

explain then flaps.

Because according to people who witnessed the buildings demise up close stated they heard explosions.

I'm not the only one to come up with this theory about the buildings being rigged with explosives.

Torino Posted on 02/09/2011 14:17
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

The world trade centre was specifically designed to withstand collision with aircrafts and yet one plane fly's into it and it's destroyed?
----

It did withstand the collision you baboon, the initial collision was not the thing which brought the towers down

MarlonD Posted on 02/09/2011 14:17
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

If they flew a plane into atkingsons head it would just pop.

flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 14:17
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

I've never seen a convincing 'conspiracy theory' about the events of the day. Yet all these nutjobs focus on space laesers, HAARP, 'pods' and missiles - all to prove that US agencies were involved in the events of 911.

When, to me, it's entirely the wrong way of doing it. I'm entirely prepared to be convinced that Osama Bin Laden was paid by a shady branch of the US government with its own agenda to carry out a terrorist attack, because that's plausible.

I guess it's just not interesting enough for these people.

atkingson Posted on 02/09/2011 14:18
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

'the initial collision was not the thing which brought the towers down'

Exactly, that's were the explosives come into it.

flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 14:18
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

"explain then flaps."


Atkingson, we've done this argument to death, and far brighter people than you have failed to argue any of this convincingly. Please don't even try.

atkingson Posted on 02/09/2011 14:19
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

I'm not looking for an argument I'm just waiting for you to explain why I'm wrong.

swordtrombonefish Posted on 02/09/2011 14:20
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

Neither twas aliens - ask Plaz.

flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 14:21
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

I know you're not looking for an argument. Arguing a point and 'having an argument' aren't the same thing.

The fact that you don't understand this is just another reason why it would be a bad idea to discuss the events of 911 any further. Sorry.

atkingson Posted on 02/09/2011 14:22
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

So you understand it and I don't? Is that what you're saying?

Surely I'm in the darkness on 911 just as much as anyone else is?

heaton_mersey_boro Posted on 02/09/2011 14:23
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

Okay -

1. The Twin Towers were designed to withstand the impact of a 727 - not a fully laden 767 which was miles bigger and heavier and faster.

The damage therefore (factors of safety required) could never have been incorporated into the initial structural designs.


Boromart Posted on 02/09/2011 14:23
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

the fact that Extra G thinks it was a US government plot tells you that it was absolutely a terrorist plot.

You would have to be a complete imbecile to think that this was a government ploy, it would take collusion by thousands of people - FBI, CIA, politicians, engineers, armed forces, airline staff, Aviation Authority....then all the investigators etc.

It is absolutely 100% not possible for this to be a government plan that has been covered up.

flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 14:24
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

"Surely I'm in the darkness on 911 just as much as anyone else is?"

No. Nobody is in the dark. If you want to know what happened that day read the link below.


Link: 911 Commission Report

Torino Posted on 02/09/2011 14:24
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

Exactly, that's were the explosives come into it
----

No, its were gravity and heat comes into it

ItalianJob Posted on 02/09/2011 14:24
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

Of course the thousands of gallons of burning aviation fuel pouring down the inside of the towers had nothing to do with it!

The explosion sounds where not explosions, just the sound of the windows blowing out under the pressure of the collapse.

It's all quite obvious.

MFC_Riverside Posted on 02/09/2011 14:26
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

"buildings demise up close stated they heard explosions."

When you put thousands of gallons of fuel and extreme heat in a small area, explosions happen.

You not been paying attention in your science class again?

atkingson Posted on 02/09/2011 14:27
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

Okay then so I take it you are all fully in the notion that the buildings were destroyed by terrorists then?

Boromart Posted on 02/09/2011 14:27
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

Extra G, how much explosive do you think you would need to bring that building down?

Explain to me how you could source it (without raising suspicion), transport it (without it being noticed), deliver it (in hte middle of a city that never sleeps), rig it in a building with thousands of people and many security and CCTV cameras and detonate it, leaving ZERO trace of the explosives so that the independent investigators didn't find the residue?

You really haven't thought this through have you!

boroinsurrey Posted on 02/09/2011 14:28
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

Anyone who thinks 9/11 was some sort of cover up and 'inside job' needs locking up.

John67 Posted on 02/09/2011 14:28
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

For me it was fairly obvious that the building were actually designed to come down like that. Such buildings are not going to last for ever and there must be a way to bring them down evewntually although I doubt anyone envisaged the force of a plane hitting at 500 mile an hour doing it. Anyone that thinks it was done with US governments go ahaed is an idiot

squarewheelbike Posted on 02/09/2011 14:28
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

There was a very good documentry on Beeb 2 the other night be-bunking all the conspirisy myths. Anyone who believes the myths have a screw loose, everyone on the programme who did certainly have.

Perhaps the most telling testimony was from the rescue teams, picking up what was left of bodies!

flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 14:28
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

"Okay then so I take it you are all fully in the notion that the buildings were destroyed by terrorists then?"

Of course. That's what happened.

StLewi Posted on 02/09/2011 14:28
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

Why did WT7 collapse when it wasn't hit?

flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 14:29
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

What you've got to remember about these conspiracy theories - about 911 and including the stuff plaz comes out with - is that, at the heart of it, somebody is making money from gullible people.

Books, lecture tours, donations. It's all about making money.

flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 14:29
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

"Why did WT7 collapse when it wasn't hit?"

Have you read the commission report? It's all in there.

StLewi Posted on 02/09/2011 14:30
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

I haven't, I'll give it a blast. Cheers.

atkingson Posted on 02/09/2011 14:31
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

'Explain to me how you could source it (without raising suspicion), transport it (without it being noticed), deliver it (in hte middle of a city that never sleeps), rig it in a building with thousands of people and many security and CCTV cameras and detonate it, leaving ZERO trace of the explosives so that the independent investigators didn't find the residue? '


Some people suggest there was a van entering the bottom floor of the building - maybe that had something to do with it? I suppose the way to bring such a huge building down is to start from the bottom.


Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 02/09/2011 14:31
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

'If it was it was too clever to have been dreamed up by George Bush'

You're not so clever if you think Bush implemented anything.

flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 14:31
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

"I suppose the way to bring such a huge building down is to start from the bottom."

Have you even watched any of the footage of the twin towers collapsing?

PinkPonce Posted on 02/09/2011 14:32
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

Can I just pop in and give a huge [:D] to EP for this piece of dynamite:

'Atkingson......You are a disaster'

[:D][^] ...

Oh, and whilst I'm here - It was a terrorist attack, which was probably expected but not at a level of that Magnitutude ...

The only cover ups in my opinion are with regards to Flight 93 being shot down by an F-15. I don't understand why Americans have to look like heros all of the time, so they state that the passengers heroics saved the day ...

PP ... x

Midosparmo Posted on 02/09/2011 14:32
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

Thats what I said CTC [:o)]

flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 14:33
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

"I don't understand why Americans have to look like heros all of the time, so they state that the passengers heroics saved the day ..."

The recordings of calls made from the aeroplane are evidence that the passengers were planning to try to 'take' the plane.

Vince_Noir Posted on 02/09/2011 14:33
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

"Some people suggest there was a van entering the bottom floor of the building "

How big was this Van? It would take more than a transit full of explosives to bring the building down.

You also didn't answer any of the other points, just how it was delivered in a little van....

atkingson Posted on 02/09/2011 14:33
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

I watched the the building exploding on impact with the aircraft but does that really explain why thw hole building eventually burned down to rubble?

Midosparmo Posted on 02/09/2011 14:34
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

"The only cover ups in my opinion are with regards to Flight 93 being shot down by an F-15. I don't understand why Americans have to look like heros all of the time, so they state that the passengers heroics saved the day ..."

That one wouldnt surprise me.


flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 14:34
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

"I watched the the building exploding on impact with the aircraft but does that really explain why thw hole building eventually burned down to rubble?"

The buildings didn't 'burn down to rubble'.

MFC_Riverside Posted on 02/09/2011 14:34
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

Haha, enough explosives in the back of a van to bring the WTC down in the way they come down.

[:D][^][:o)]

GaZBoro Posted on 02/09/2011 14:35
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

It was a conspiracy whichever way you look at it.

Either a rogue element within the US government conspired to bring it about.
Or a handful of muslims living in Afghan caves conspired to bring it about.

More than likely though, it was probably an element of both. The former allowing incompetance and deliberate inactivity to allow the latter to "get the job done". A win win scenario for both parties and the agendas they wanted to push.

Saying Bush did it, or it'd take 1000s on the inside to pull it off, is naiveity in the extreme. As is saying a handful of muslims taking on the most powerful nation on earth and striking at its heart unopposed is.

I do wonder how many people who take part in these endless debates have ever read the official 9-11 commission report though. Because its seems very very few have and only take the word of whatever the main stream media saturate them with, regurgitating it on messageboards, or what some crackpot conspiracy sites would have them believe and doing likewise. How about doing your own research? The official 9-11 commission report is an excellent place to start, and take it from there.

Midosparmo Posted on 02/09/2011 14:36
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

"The recordings of calls made from the aeroplane are evidence that the passengers were planning to try to 'take' the plane. "

But why would they crash it. If they took it over they could have got air control to help them control it to land in the seas for example.

Or have I watched too much Airplane? There was a nun on borad right?


atkingson Posted on 02/09/2011 14:36
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

'Haha, enough explosives in the back of a van to bring the WTC down in the way they come down'

that's not what I said.

flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 14:37
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

Which 'anti-conspiracy' posts in this thread do you think are wrong, GaZBoro?

atkingson Posted on 02/09/2011 14:37
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

'The buildings didn't 'burn down to rubble'.'

They were completely destroyed either way.

flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 14:38
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

"But why would they crash it. If they took it over they could have got air control to help them control it to land in the seas for example."

Because they didn't take it over. Nobody knows exactly what happened, but whatever they did, the passengers didn't end up in a position to fly the aeroplane.

flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 14:39
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

"They were completely destroyed either way."

That's right, they were. But when you're speculating about how they were destroyed it's important to make the distinction. Do you understand?

MFC_Riverside Posted on 02/09/2011 14:39
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

"Some people suggest there was a van entering the bottom floor of the building"

You posting that, in support of your point of view, indicates that you believe it.

[:D]

captain5 Posted on 02/09/2011 14:40
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

I'm not sure what the conspiracy regarding Flight 93 is supposed to be as it's completely public that the US government gave the go ahead for fighters to shoot down aircraft.

plazmuh Posted on 02/09/2011 14:40
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

This is Earth buisiness and i have no interest in it at all..
Could not give a flying fcuk who did what to whom.
Those that believe will never stop believing and those that were scared are still scared..
A tragic event for sure and a lot of people are still affected to this day..
As its been classified under the 30 yr rule we will all be long gone by the time we find out anyway so its going nowhere fast..
Regards
Plazmuh
[:D][:D][^]

atkingson Posted on 02/09/2011 14:41
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

Yes but I didn't say the driver of van singe-handedly took the whole building down.

Julios_Hairband Posted on 02/09/2011 14:41
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

I could accept the possibility that the US government may have missed opportunities to prevent the attacks, but manufactured them? No chance.

flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 14:42
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

"I'm not sure what the conspiracy regarding Flight 93 is supposed to be as it's completely public that the US government gave the go ahead for fighters to shoot down aircraft."

That's interesting - do you have a source for this? I'd like to read it.

Boromart Posted on 02/09/2011 14:42
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

Some of the smaller WTC buildings where damaged by falling material from WTC1 and WTC2 and the planes.

You can clearly see from photos form WTC6 where big chunks of WC1 had fallen into it and flatten much of it.

This damaged ruptured gas pipes and electricity cables etc. causing explosions.

When the two big buildings fell a lot of debris got deposited on the smaller WTC buildings totalling them.


MFC_Riverside Posted on 02/09/2011 14:42
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

I didn't say you did. [:D][^]

genuinely stupid. [:o)]

Boromart Posted on 02/09/2011 14:43
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

"Some people suggest there was a van entering the bottom floor of the building - maybe that had something to do with it? I suppose the way to bring such a huge building down is to start from the bottom."


err video footage clearly shows it collapsed from near the top. Are you saying that the TV networks edited the footage (real-time) to make it look like it collapsed from about the 100th floor when in fact a transit van with explosives at teh bottom made it come down? FFS?

atkingson Posted on 02/09/2011 14:44
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

'enough explosives in the back of a van to bring the WTC down '

err, yes you did.

Bandy Posted on 02/09/2011 14:45
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

Some serious XXXXXX idiots on here. Ask the families of the ones that jumped from 110 storeys if it was rigged. Nobheads

flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 14:45
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

" Are you saying that the TV networks edited the footage (real-time) to make it look like it collapsed from about the 100th floor when in fact a transit van with explosives at teh bottom made it come down? FFS?"

Some people do actually believe this sort of thing. There are some people who insist that there were no jumbo jets, that people who say they saw them are either imagining it, suffering from mass hallucination or are government agents, and that all video footage has been doctored.

Angelmatty Posted on 02/09/2011 14:47
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

A lot of things dont add up that is for sure

squarewheelbike Posted on 02/09/2011 14:47
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

The hijackers had dropped Flight 93 to low level, the autopilot was off, a fight in the cockpit with people trying to wrest contol of the plane would give them only seconds before they hit the deck.

Bororeturn1 Posted on 02/09/2011 14:48
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

I dont think there was a cover up at all..........however agree with a comment further up regarding flight 93.......I was glued to the t.v. news channel that day didnt even switch over & I remember a news channel NBC (i think) saying there was a flight heading towards Washington that shouldnt be & that 2 fighter jets were hovering....updates will follow.......they never did, always sticks in my mind......I reckon that this flight was shot down & the best way to cover this up........make everyone on board heroes !!!!!!!

MFC_Riverside Posted on 02/09/2011 14:48
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

"Yes but I didn't say the driver of van singe-handedly took the whole building down."

Neither did I. You said that a van took explosives into the building. I said a van wouldn't have enough explosives in it to do what happened to the towers. You said the driver didn't take the building down.

So, back to the point. A building designed to withstand hurricanes and some explosions got brought down by a van load of explosives?

As I said, impossible. You would need lots of these vans making lots of delieveries. Lots of men to install these bombs and lots of people to know about this. [:o)]

Boromart Posted on 02/09/2011 14:49
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

spot on squarewheel.

Angelmatty, like what exactly. It all adds up.

atkingson Posted on 02/09/2011 14:50
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

I don't know this is what I heard on a documentary.

re Boromart etc - Instead of ridiculing conspiracy theories why don't you start explainging what happened to the wtc yourselves?

Midosparmo Posted on 02/09/2011 14:51
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

Wasnt the planes going into the buildingd good enough to start a war?

Why would the US Government think sticking some explosive in to collapse the towers was needed as well?

Its just XXXXXXing mental to think they would do that and why would they?

FartingGnome Posted on 02/09/2011 14:52
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

" "I'm not sure what the conspiracy regarding Flight 93 is supposed to be as it's completely public that the US government gave the go ahead for fighters to shoot down aircraft."

That's interesting - do you have a source for this? I'd like to read it. "

There was a programme on the telly last night and lots and lots of the top people who were involved on that day were interviewed, including Rumsfeld and Cheyney. One of the interviewees was one of the top Air Force people who said exactly that. They also interviewed a fighter pilot who was one of those authorised to shoot down passenger planes. They didn't say that they'd shot anything down, although they did say that one plane came very near to being shot down because its communications system had developed a fault and the aircrew didn't get the message to get out of the sky.

The pilot said that at the time the thought of shooting down a civilian aircraft full of American citizens was pretty, well, unthinkable, but he said that he'd reconciled himself to doing it if he had to and worrying about it for the rest of his life.

atkingson Posted on 02/09/2011 14:53
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

'Why would the US Government think sticking some explosive in to collapse the towers was needed as well?'

because a plane couldn't do the job.

The US government want control over the masses so blowing up the wtc was a good idea for them.

Boromart Posted on 02/09/2011 14:53
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

MFC_Riverside, you would also need lots of time to lug that explosive up to the 100th floor and then rig it out. You would have one shot to do it, one night from when the last people left to the next morning. Workers started to arrive at 7ish any wires would need to be hidden in walls etc. so tehy didnt notice.

you would also need complicit security staff, complicit companies that managed the CCTV footage, complicit suppliers of explosives.

Does anyone really believe this nonsense? Really?

flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 14:53
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

"re Boromart etc - Instead of ridiculing conspiracy theories why don't you start explainging what happened to the wtc yourselves?"

No. It's your job to adequately explain and evidence your contrary point of view.

flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 14:54
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

"There was a programme on the telly last night and lots and lots of the top people who were involved on that day were interviewed, including Rumsfeld and Cheyney. One of the interviewees was one of the top Air Force people who said exactly that."

What channel was it on?

Boromart Posted on 02/09/2011 14:54
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

"re Boromart etc - Instead of ridiculing conspiracy theories why don't you start explainging what happened to the wtc yourselves?"

I don't need to it is all officially documented and corroborated. If you spout carp on a public forum then I will rip it to bits, because that is what daft theories like this deserve.

Midosparmo Posted on 02/09/2011 14:55
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

"because a plane couldn't do the job."

The point is a plane crashing into the towers would be good enough for a war wether the towers came down or not.

So why run a stupid risk to add some explosive in there as well?

Bonkers.

Boromart Posted on 02/09/2011 14:56
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

"because a plane couldn't do the job" - no, but 1,000s gallons of ignited aviation fuel could, and you know what DID bring the towers down.

atkingson Posted on 02/09/2011 14:56
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

The reason I brought up explosives was because I really don't believe a plane(no matter what size) could bring down such buildings as the wtc.

Okay then so lets drop the explosives thing: tell me how a plane could possibly destroy a building so big and resilliant? You seem to be in the know Boromart

flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 14:57
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

"The reason I brought up explosives was because I really don't believe a plane(no matter what size) could bring down such buildings as the wtc."

And yet they did so it looks like your beliefs need reassessing.

FartingGnome Posted on 02/09/2011 14:57
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

"What channel was it on?"

ITV 1, 9:00, not exactly hidden away in the schedules [:D]


Link: The Day That Changed The World

Bandy Posted on 02/09/2011 14:58
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

Is this thread for real????

icarus1965 Posted on 02/09/2011 14:58
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufacturered by US Goverment?

they,s a few COMPLETE WHOPPERS ON HERE...

and candidates for whopper for year...



over 200 jumped.. (and the footage was shocking)

spare a thought for them and families...

atkingson Posted on 02/09/2011 14:59
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

'And yet they did'

So you're fully convinced a plane took both buildings down? Explain how.

flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 14:59
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

"So you're fully convinced a plane took both buildings down? Explain how."

No. It's in the report I linked earlier. Read it.

Boromart Posted on 02/09/2011 15:01
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

I've just told you on the previous post. But to enlighten you further. Heat generated by the lit aviation fuel buckles the metal structure. Joints fail causing floors to drop. the weight of that floor dropping puts further strain on the next set of joints. Those joints fail quicker because they are taking more strain than they were designed (2 floors worth of weight). Once 3 or 4 floor floors collapsed then the weight will break remaining joints instantly and the whole tower will collapsed in on itself vertically.

"The reason I brought up explosives was because I really don't believe a plane(no matter what size) could bring down such buildings as the wtc." - explain why you dont think crashing a plane and igniting a raging inferno would not cause a building to collapse. What reference point do you have to make that conclusion?

captain5 Posted on 02/09/2011 15:01
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

Flaps, Dick Cheney gave the green light to shoot down aircraft; it was when they thought 93 was heading for the White House.

It was on that show last night linked above.

atkingson Posted on 02/09/2011 15:04
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

So if planes definitely took the buldings down then why are so many americans suggesting otherwise? I don't understand that if an explantion of 911 was so clear(as you suggest) people would argue against it - is it because people are lunatics?

flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 15:04
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

"So if planes definitely took the buldings down then why are so many americans suggesting otherwise?"

For the same reason that you are. Because they're thick and/or unhinged.

MFC_Riverside Posted on 02/09/2011 15:06
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

Boromart [^].

AtkinGson [:o)][:D][:D].

atkingson Posted on 02/09/2011 15:06
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

'Because they're thick and/or unhinged.'

That's an insensitive view on the families of people who lost relatives in the wtc.


Boromart Posted on 02/09/2011 15:07
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

I would suggest that more than 99.99% of Americans believe that terrorists flying planes brought the towers down. I have never met one that thought otherwise.


FartingGnome Posted on 02/09/2011 15:08
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

"Flaps, Dick Cheney gave the green light to shoot down aircraft;"

Yes, I stand corrected, that was Dick Cheney, not an Air Force wallah. By the time the documentary got to that bit the Laphraoig was in the ascendancy [^].

Very interesting programme.

atkingson Posted on 02/09/2011 15:08
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

I've watched documentaries were families of the victims, talk show hosts etc have clearly stated they think there was an inside job - so are they all just conspiracist lunatics then?

captain5 Posted on 02/09/2011 15:08
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

"is it because people are lunatics?"

Erm, quite.

flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 15:10
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

"That's an insensitive view on the families of people who lost relatives in the wtc."

You asked me about people who believe conspiracy theories, not the families of people who lost relatives.

PinkPonce Posted on 02/09/2011 15:10
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

'"I'm not sure what the conspiracy regarding Flight 93 is supposed to be as it's completely public that the US government gave the go ahead for fighters to shoot down aircraft."

That's interesting - do you have a source for this? I'd like to read it.'

Flaps, it was on ITV last night. Dick Cheney said that during a telephone call between himself and President Bush, they made the decision that any civilian aircraft not responding and who had failed to land after all planes were ordered out of the sky, would be shot down by F-15's which had been scrambled.

The reason I believe Flight 93 to have been shot down is because the F-15's were scrambled to it when it's direction changed towards Washington and it had 15 minutes before it would arrive at the White House.

They were getting reports that it was getting closer minute by minute, but then with 9 minutes to go it mysteriously disappeared off the radar.

If you can watch it on ITV Player I really recommend it. It was so strange seeing so much detail from the Vice President and President in how the events unfolded that day.

PP ... x

FartingGnome Posted on 02/09/2011 15:11
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

"That's an insensitive view on the families of people who lost relatives in the wtc."

On what basis are you suggesting that families of people who lost relatives believe for one second that it was anything other than a terrorist attack with aeroplanes?

I can't make my mind up about extra G. Is he on a windup? Nobody, surely, could exist in the real world and be as daft as he is on here.

flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 15:11
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

" so are they all just conspiracist lunatics then?"

Yes. Or are making money off pretending to be.

atkingson Posted on 02/09/2011 15:11
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

Your explanation of what happened when the planes hit was sufficient enough to have me believe that it wasn't explosives but then I don't understand why Americans still have disbelief that terrorists caused wtc to collapse.

Why would people even start think it was a government inside job? There must be something going on behind the scenes.

captain5 Posted on 02/09/2011 15:12
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

You do realise that the people who don't believe the government are just part of a bigger conspiracy don't you, Ako??

Midosparmo Posted on 02/09/2011 15:13
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

They would have been quite right to shoot it down. But saying the passengers did it makes a "nicer" story. Good propaganda about the American spirit.
Does it matter really though? The end result is the same.

MFC_Riverside Posted on 02/09/2011 15:13
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

Because they like to be different. If I showed someone 100 videos supporting an inside job then I can see why an opinion could be altered but when you have access to both sides of the story it is clear what happened.

Boromart Posted on 02/09/2011 15:13
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

Here is some homework for you Extra G.

Step 1: Get a metal fork (you are probably not allowed to play with knives). Try to bend it, its quite hard isn't it?

Step 2: Switch the gas hob on (you may need adult supervision), put it on full heat. Hold the fork over the flame for several minutes. Now try to bend the fork (please wear gloves), it's easier isn't it? The metal has been structurally weekend.

Step 3: Turn off the gas hob. Now turn the gas on the cooker (don't light it), and put your head inside.

It really isn't rocket science why the towers collapsed, you have to be very special not to get it.

flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 15:14
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

"Why would people even start think it was a government inside job? There must be something going on behind the scenes."

It seems that most people in this forum believe you to be a massive moron. Do you think they're right?

atkingson Posted on 02/09/2011 15:16
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

Most people on this forum are morons flaps.

flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 15:17
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

Did you mean morong?

PinkPonce Posted on 02/09/2011 15:17
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

'Why would people even start think it was a government inside job?'

Atkingson, people speculate that it was an inside job because of various things:

Things such as:

1) The way the towers collapsed (i.e reminiscent of a controlled demolition)

2) The speed in which they collapsed

3) The fact that at the crash zone of Flight 93, there appeared to be very little remnants on an aircraft within a rather small crater considering a plane had supposedly hit the ground at 550mph

4) The fact that on a news report, it was reported that World Trade Centre 7 had collapsed, when it was actually still standing behind the person reporting. This building later did collapsed after the North and South towers.

5) The fact that The Pentagon (one of the most secure buildings in the world) was hit by an aircraft, however the only footage is some grainy CCTV footage where you can't make out whether it's a plane or not. The Pentagon is surrounded by loads of CCTV cameras.

6) Because they believe the government needed a reason to attack Afganistan and Iraq.

PP ... x

wilkos_perm Posted on 02/09/2011 15:18
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

When people talk about conspiracies and discuss things like "The US Government" they present it as a faceless institution, totally overlooking he human element. What you are actually suggesting is that a goup of human beings from the US collectively decided it would be a good idea to arrange one of the biggest atrocities of recent times. It's ridiculous.

Bandy Posted on 02/09/2011 15:18
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

Very good programme last night - compelling viewing. Some of the footage of the planes hitting was shocking

atkingson Posted on 02/09/2011 15:19
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

'Did you mean morong?'

no, I mean you're a moron.

PinkPonce Posted on 02/09/2011 15:20
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

Wilkos [^] ...

Anyone who sits and watches the footage of the event, and in particular last nights programme would never in a million years believe it to be a consiracy!

It's just ludicrous!

PP ... x

flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 15:20
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

"no, I mean you're a moron."

Why do you think I'm a moron?

flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 15:21
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

"Atkingson, people speculate that it was an inside job because of various things:

Things such as:"

It's unfortunate that the people who have these questions don't bother to find out the answers.

atkingson Posted on 02/09/2011 15:21
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

Flaps, I think anyone who sits on a football messaging board in the middle of the day is a moron(including me)

flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 15:22
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

Why?

PinkPonce Posted on 02/09/2011 15:22
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

Flaps - I agree with you ... I'm just trying to educate him ... Everyone else seems to knows the reasons why these Conspiricy theories exist ...

PP ... x

atkingson Posted on 02/09/2011 15:25
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

So conspiracy theories are made up to make money and they are mostly bollox? I'm not so sure about that, some conspiracy theories have a lot of truth in them.

MFC_Riverside Posted on 02/09/2011 15:26
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

It gets funnier and funnier with each reply. [:D][^]

FartingGnome Posted on 02/09/2011 15:27
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

One of the things that struck me from that documentary was the fact that they all admitted they hadn't got (a) the first idea what was happening and (b) the first idea what to do about it. There was no plan they could take off the shelf. One of the interviewees said that the only contingencies they had for being attacked by jet aircraft presumed action by a hostile nation state, not a few blokes armed with box cutters.

flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 15:28
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

"some conspiracy theories have a lot of truth in them."

Which ones? Why do you think this?

Bandy Posted on 02/09/2011 15:28
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

You cant plan for sh it like that. It was a perfectly executed plan which caught the US by suprise. Shocking and harrowing all the same.

atkingson Posted on 02/09/2011 15:30
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

Like the theory about the music industry dictatating an artists image etc. I've even heard Tupac talk about how record labels try and take control over an artist - on his album 'killuminati'.

Also DMX and Eminem have both written songs about the music industry and how messed up it is.

squarewheelbike Posted on 02/09/2011 15:31
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

The twin towers were steel framed, the burning jet fuel along with fixtures and fittings produced produced temperatures of 1,000c +. At 500c, steel loses more than half of it's strength and weakens incrementally as the temperature rises, meaning it loses its ability to support the structure above it. That's why the second tower hit fell first, it was hit at a lower level. It ain't rocket surgery!

PinkPonce Posted on 02/09/2011 15:32
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

'Like the theory about the music industry dictatating an artists image etc. I've even heard Tupac talk about how record labels try and take control over an artist on his album 'killuminati'.

Also DMX and Eminems have both written songs about the music industry and how messed up it is'

[:D][:D][:D]

PP ... x

atkingson Posted on 02/09/2011 15:33
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

The link should explain further what I mean.


Link: ...

flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 15:34
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

"Like the theory about the music industry dictatating an artists image etc. I've even heard Tupac talk about how record labels try and take control over an artist - on his album 'killuminati'.

Also DMX and Eminem have both written songs about the music industry and how messed up it is."

LOL you're just a brilliant observed windup aren't you. You have to be.

atkingson Posted on 02/09/2011 15:36
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

The link I've posted is, seriously ,very interesting - watch it.

block_4_Eastender Posted on 02/09/2011 15:49
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

I have a few points

Flight 93

Last night a documentary stated and the fighter pilot confirmed he had authority to shoot down a commercial airliner.
It could have been shot down and they could have made the hero thing up to detract attention from the fighter pilot that pulled the trigger.

Van in the basement

1 Van?
2 Buildings? or 3 if you count WTC7

Last point.

A civil engineer at work told me either that day or the 12th I can't remember that the buildings collapsed due to controlled explosions. This was years before I'd heard of any conspiracy.
He added that a building that size in a heavily built up area would have been constructed with the explosives in place, the reason being that if it sustained damage and became unstable then a sideways collapse would cause more loss of life than a controlled vertical collapse.
I asked who would make the call to push the button? He said no one sensors would detect too much stress that would result in a sideways collapse and auto trigger the controlled demolition.
Once again the question is why they didn't they just admit this and the answer is similar to flight 93 to detract away from the guy who designed this.
A plausible explanation I thought though one I've never heard repeated.

Red_Matter Posted on 02/09/2011 15:55
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

Boromart, there are some very funny alternatives to that experiment but I think it would be a bridge too far concocting alternatives just so that conspiracy theorists could have a stab at drawing the wrong conclusions. [:D]

spider_man Posted on 02/09/2011 16:13
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

"A civil engineer at work told me either that day or the 12th I can't remember that the buildings collapsed due to controlled explosions. This was years before I'd heard of any conspiracy.
He added that a building that size in a heavily built up area would have been constructed with the explosives in place, the reason being that if it sustained damage and became unstable then a sideways collapse would cause more loss of life than a controlled vertical collapse.
I asked who would make the call to push the button? He said no one sensors would detect too much stress that would result in a sideways collapse and auto trigger the controlled demolition.
Once again the question is why they didn't they just admit this and the answer is similar to flight 93 to detract away from the guy who designed this.
A plausible explanation I thought though one I've never heard repeated."

As most will tell you a controlled demolition is always done from bottom upwards, whereas the towers collapsed from the top downwards. Of course if you're a conspiracy theorist then you just say that the explosives were rigged to do that so it wouldn't be considered a controlled demolition.

Either way, this is one that has been argued time and time again.

btw is atkingson for real? Who is the true owner of this wind up account?

block_4_Eastender Posted on 02/09/2011 16:25
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

Spider Man

I'll take your word for it, just I'd not heard it on TV

oooooo Posted on 02/09/2011 16:26
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

What buildings have charges already installed to make it easier to demolish? Wouldn't that be an issue when they deteriorate and become unstable?

Everyone says "it looked like a controlled explosion" but it looks nothing like a single one I have ever seen.

ron_manager Posted on 02/09/2011 16:29
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

Away for a week and the conspiracists are running wild[V]

block_4_Eastender Posted on 02/09/2011 16:30
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

I suppose it depends on the type of explosive.

Do they all deteriorate and become unstable?

flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 16:37
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

The idea that buildings - that people live and work in - have explosives built in to them is just insane.

BigCasino Posted on 02/09/2011 16:40
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

Fcukin'ell must be a full moon on a fryda night....worra loada liquid sheeeite!

block_4_Eastender Posted on 02/09/2011 16:47
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

"The idea that buildings - that people live and work in - have explosives built in to them is just insane."

I wouldn't know I'm not an explosives expert.

I am merely repeating what I was told and I have an open mind on the subject as I do not have the expert to knowledge to either believe or disbelieve it.

Big_Shot Posted on 02/09/2011 16:55
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

On a documentary the other year it was pointed out by a demolition expert than explosives have a shelf life of 2-3 years so no building would ever be built with explosives inside. That theory doesn't seem to get mentioned anymore, well not until this afternoon.

block_4_Eastender Posted on 02/09/2011 17:02
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

I'd still like to keep an open mind


Link: Please

flaps Posted on 02/09/2011 17:04
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

"I wouldn't know I'm not an explosives expert."

It doesn't take an 'explosives expert' to realise what a lunatic idea that is.

I'm not a tiger expert but I wouldn't let one loose in a school playground.

Keeping an open mind is one thing; divorcing yourself from critical thinking and common sense is something else entirely.

no_user_name Posted on 02/09/2011 17:17
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

I dont understand why people want to believe that 9-11 was anything but a terrorist attack, despite the massive amount of scientific evidence that proves it was.

block_4_Eastender Posted on 02/09/2011 17:17
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

Don't think I'd let a tiger loose in a school playground either unless it had no teeth.

[:D][:D]

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 02/09/2011 17:25
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

You have to question the intelligence of anyone who seriously believes that 9/11 was anything other than a spectacular terrorist plot.

That aside, I think there is some genuine debate to be had around whether Mossad knew about the attack before it happened, but chose to let it go ahead and benefit from the consequences caused in the middle-east.

mwelolo Posted on 02/09/2011 19:20
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

It's embarassing that people still come out with this conspiracy nonsense.

THEBOROBOSS Posted on 02/09/2011 19:39
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

Why haven't the Conspiracy theorists mention The Pentagon?Camera's shut off, a missile not a plane hitting the building.[:O]


ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 03/09/2011 00:13
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

Haven't read the whole thread, but for it to have been a conspiracy, then the Arabs who hijacked the planes will have had to have been on the payroll of the CIA/US government. Can you imagine these people flying the planes into buildings, killing themselves amongst several hundred others just so that the US could start a war in Afghanistan?

offside-again Posted on 03/09/2011 00:54
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

zzz/ Whenever something incredible happens people always look for reasons that are not the obvious ones.

ie: Moon landings. Oh that can't have happened, must be faked.

Princess Di. Oh she could never die, must have been a set-up.

9/11. Oh America could never be attacked, must have been a set-up.


No. The most obvious answer 99% of the time is the answer.

Game set match. [^]

OneEye Posted on 03/09/2011 02:18
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

Idiots,

It was a terrorist attack, simple as. Why are you looking for other answers when the answer is there in front of you. It was a terrorist attack. Stop looking for excuses... [sad]

EpiphanyProudfoot Posted on 03/09/2011 06:03
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

If Atkingson's theary has one crumb of comfort, then yes the Pentagon footage is a tad inconclusive.

Not one camera got it (even in the buildings/persons in the surrounding areas)


offside-again Posted on 03/09/2011 06:10
9/11- Terrorist attack or manufactured by US Goverment?

Off topic, but BTW EP, you seem a decent chap these days.

That is all. [^]