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PinkPonce Posted on 14/08/2011 11:48
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

For those who have expressed an interest on here with regards to what happened yesterday here it is.

Bare with me because this could be a long one ... I, along with 3 friends and many others got on the 9:50 Middlesbrough train which arrived in Leeds at about 11:20. British Transport Police boarded the train at York, no problems whatsoever but told us that they believed that WYP would be guiding us into Yates next to the station.

We managed to nip off into the Bookies next door, but were seconded into the pub by the waiting police outside. The pub had a healthy following of Boro fans in, and there it was quite friendly and we were actually having good laugh with a couple of officers who were spot on outside,

We stayed in there drinking £3.80 pints or £4.40 bottles (Allegedly marked up specially for MFC fans according to a Leeds fan).

At around 12:30 we went outside and tried to move onto to meet some friends, go to cash point, grab some food as well as have a drink and also because we wanted to be nearer the ground given how far it is to walk. We were told by 4 officers outside that we couldn't leave - the police had then lined up in about a 10m square around the door of the pub.

There was no confrontation, despite being annoyed that I wasn't allowed to move on, and whilst waiting for a phone call from mates outside, I had a bit of a laugh with one of the female officers and told her that I needed to go and get something from the Vivienne Westwood shop and that I don't even like football, it was all good fun, and they genuinely sympathised with us as they were being directed from above.

I was told that at 1:30 we'd be on our way to the ground with the police leading us. I have no problem at all with that, and said as much to them. I accept and understand that they have to do this and it's primarily for our safety as well. I was just gutted they stuck us in the McDonalds of the beer world!

As i was about to go back inside and was finishing the conversation with the officers outside, another officer from WYP came over and stuck a camera in my face and started taking photographs.

I asked the female who i was talking to whyh he was doing that as the atmosphere was friendly and she said 'you'll have to ask him' and pointed to an officer in a flat cap without numbers on his shoulders.

He came over and asked me to go inside the pub (because I wasn't smoking) I told him I was just getting some fresh air, waiting for a return call, and I would do immediately, and politely asked if there was any reason why I'd just had my photo taken and he was now in the pub taking photos of people when there hadn't been a single instance or trouble, or even loutish behaviour. It was simply just a group of people having a drink in a pub - regardless of them being football fans or not. In fact, if you walked in you'd never know there was a football match going on.

He refused to answer and told me in no uncertain terms to go back in the pub. I didn't say anything, I didn't realise being outside of a pub was an offence and as I walked back in one of the male officers raised his eyes at me and offered a smirk at the way the main guy had spoken.

At this point it is important to state that outside of pub were a group of young lads who'd been on trains and kept with the police. They were perhaps 14-17 years old and not allowed in the pub. I don't know who these were, I just know that from 11:30 they've been kept outside the pub, because Yates wouldn't let them in, and if they needed the toilet, the police sent two officers in with them and escorted them back out.

So, time ticks on and at half past one we make our way back outside in order to walk to the ground. we're told that we're now not walking but there will be some buses laid on for us to go to the ground. The outside of the pub is packed and there's police horses and officers all over.

At this point again we were chatting to officers, being very friendly they were asking us how they thought we'd get on etc. All very friendly, not an ounce of bother whatsoever.

30 minutes later, we're still stood outside this pub wondering what is going on. At this point the police went in and got all the Boro fans out of the pub onto the pavement to move on. I was talking to one of the young kids, he was perhaps 15 and they've now been stood outside this pub since 11:30 - nigh on 3 hours, no food, no drinks, all he wants to do was get to the ground, buy a programme, a coke and a mars bar or something and see his other friends.

At 2:00 we started getting marched to where these police provided buses are. We get there and there's no buses. We're just stood at the side of the road surrounded by police. There's probably 200-250 of us.

At 2:30 the first bus arrives. The police have us all lined up the doors open and they tell everyone to have £2.50 ready for the bus.

Now I know it's only £2.50 but I'm sorry but how are they able to determine by what means I or anyone else gets to the ground but then make ME pay for it.

At 2.40 I was still stood there waiting and I asked the officer if we were able to now walk because of the time and I didn't want to miss kick off.

The 2nd bus duly arrived however his ticket Machine was broke so he had to pull away and we had to wait for another.

At 2.50 I asked an officer at the back of the remaining 30 or so supporters who weren't yet on a bus If I could please organise a taxi for the people I was with as we didn't want to miss the start.

He pulled me aside at the back of the group and I explained my situation about wanting to leave to meet friends, cash point, food, etc and that I was now alone as all my friends were at the ground. There was another police officer on a horse stood next to us listening.

The officer on the horse appeared very understanding of my question and nodded when I suggested getting a taxi, because I was going to miss the start of the match.

By this time I was royally fùcked off because i wanted to walk to the ground an hour ago.

So I asked him if i could make a few points.

I asked whether WYP would refund the cost of the tickets for us still hear who'd now miss the kick off.

I asked why, if the police are providing these buses, are you expecting young kids who've probably only got a fiver on them for a programme and a burger to pay half of this money out in order to get to the ground when wen all would have walked at 1:30.

I accepted that they had to do something like this, but it's now 2:55 and the bus just arrived.

The bloke on the horse was nodding in agreement and said he understands my frustrations, which is why I asked him if we could get a taxi to the ground (he appeared to be supporting what I was saying). Then the guy on the horse said 'Do you know of this lad, Tim' to which PC Swales asked my name and then said no, I don't think 'we' do do we.

I said no, you'll have nothing at all on me Tim.

In my opinion, he was asking whether I was known, on the basis of allowing me to get a taxi if I wasn't known by CP.

PC Swales said that I see why you're aggrieved but unfortunately there's nothing that can happen to help it now, but he did sympathise with the situation.

I told him I understood and it's just a joke that we've got 5 minutes now to get 50 people to pay on a bus and get to the ground but if thats the situation then it's too late to change it.

At that I heard 'you've got less than 5 minutes - you've got 15 minutes to leave Leeds or else you're nicked' from the WYPO.

I know for an absolute fact that PC Swales, The bloke on the horse and the 2 or 3 officers I had been talking to were in disbelief.

Few questions about why etc and PC Swales said unfortunately there's nothing he can do about if because it's a different force. The only thing he did do was take all of my details for Cleveland Polices records.

The bus then left at 3:05 and I was given this yellow piece of paper. I was given no explanation what it was, what it meant, what my 'rights' were or what I had to do - only that I had 15 minutes to leave Leeds.

I stood on my own whilst the police dispensed and i read the notes on the back of the form to try and understand what it meant. I literally had no clue what a section 27 was or what implications this may have had for me in the future. I don't know whether that should have been explained to me.

Whilst I was reading it, the officer who issued it came over, I was pushed and i believed provoked to make a reaction - which obviously I didn't although others may have in that situation. I was forcebly pushed and provoked. I had done nothing wrong.


I was told if i don't move i have 5 minutes not 15. I asked where the station was and was pushed in the direction and started walking away.

I then went to The Station, went in the Boozer and accidentally missed my train, and nervously checked twitter for updates.

UTB.

PP ... x

*Update: 15/08/2011

Letter sent to West Yorkshire Police copied to Cleveland Police, My MP Tom Blenkinson, Football Supporters Federation. Main body details all the events of the day, highlights various questions regarding police behaviour, and in particular flags up inadequacies in the S27 issued, it's reasoning, and the HoC guidelines of issuing an S27. Also requests confirmation from Cleveland Police that they have destroyed the details taken on the day, given the fact that no crime was comitted.

*Update: 07/09/2011

Letter received from Tom Blenkinsop, sent to West Yorkshire Police requested a full investigation into the complain and the police behaviour in this instance.

*Update: 09/09/2011

Letter 1 received from West Yorkshire Police

*Update: 12/09/2011

Letter 2 received from West Yorkshire Police

*Update 14/09/2011

Letter 3 Received from West Yorkshire Police

*Update 15/09/2011

Letter 4 Received from West Yorkshire Police

*Update 21/09/2011

Letter 1 Received from Cleveland Police FIO stating that details have been kept for a policing purpose.

*Update 28/09/2011

Letter sent to Cleveland Police asking a series of questions relating to the events of the 13th August, some contradictions, and requesting clarification of why details are being retained and for what purpose. Also requesting a copy of the Information Sharing Agreement between CP and MFC.

*Update 29/09/2011.

On advice from the IPCC and FSF, it has today escalated to the IPCC as an official complaint, due to the fact that West Yorkshire Police have not reported it, and are dealing with it as a central issue.

*Update 11/10/2011.

Letter received from the IPCC, acknowledging receipt of all correspondence.

Email received from Tom Blenkinsop regarding an update on information and progress etc.

*Update 21/10/2011.

Further letter to WYP in response to their 4th letter

UTP.

*Update 28/10/2011.

PC Tim Swales has finally admitted in writing that despite him not being able to assist in Leeds when the section 27 was issued because it was 'outside of his jurisdiction' that he has used the information he obtained from me for football intelligence purposes, and it is now stored on their intelligence system.

Yes, that's correct - I am now highlighted as a 'Risk Supporter' for politely requesting that I use alternative transport to a football game, after having my rights under Article 11 of the Human Rights act breached

*Update 10/11/2011.

Following my previous update as follows:

"*Update 29/09/2011.

On advice from the IPCC and FSF, it has today escalated to the IPCC as an official complaint, due to the fact that West Yorkshire Police have not reported it, and are dealing with it as a central issue"

I received a letter from WYP advising that the matter was being dealt with as a internal central force issue, and had not been recorded with the IPCC. I had 28 days only to appeal that decision, and as my complaint focussed on various points, and not just a 'Quality of Service' issue which WYP had catagorised it, I did appeal this decision.

After receiving confirmation from the IPCC that they had received my appeal and all necessary documentation, I have now, this week, received a further letter from the IPCC advising that my appeal has been 'Upheld' which is great news.

There are certain aspects of my complaint that should NOT be recorded as a formal complaint with the IPCC, and are simply internal WYP issues, but they still require a comprehensive answer.

I have also now received an additional letter from WYP and an email confirming all of the above, and that it's been reallocated internally for a comprehensive answer.

Great news And to all those that politely told me I wouldn't get anywhere, let this be proof that you can ...

*Update 14/11/2011:

Email received from WYP confirming that the investigation will now be moved on via a Formal Investigation.

Correspondence with Amanda from the FSF following her meeting with their Solicitor stating that we are to wait the conclusion of the formal investigation before dealing with both any issues that arise in that, and the issue of Cleveland retaining my details on their intelligence database.

*Update 24/01/2012

Email exchange between myself and the Professional Standards Department (PSD) Detective Inspector for West Yorkshire Police (WYP).

PSD WYP to PP 19/12/11:

The investigation is contiuning.
PSD have the CCTV footage to review.
PSD are awaiting the account from PC Swales.
PSD will be requesting the other officers accounts in the near future.

PSD WYP to PP 13/01/12:

The investigation is continuing.
PSD have encountered a problem with the video footage and have, to date, been unable to review, but are seeking a solution.
At such time they request a description of myself, and what I was wearing along with a Photograph.
PSD have received PC Swales account of his knowledge and involvement.
PSD are awaiting the responses from the other officers.

PP to PSD WYP 24/01/12:

Have the PSD sought a solution to the problematic CCTV footage.
At such point I will be happy to provide the requested information.
I would like a copy of the footage.
I can provide a map of where the direction to leave was issued.
I would like a copy of PC Swales statement.

*Update 25/01/12

WYP PSD to PP 24/01/12:

In reply to the correspondence indicated yesterday:

The PSD are still working on a solution and have not yet been able to view the CCTV footage.
There will be reference to PC Swales' report within the investigation report thereby providing me with his version of events.
If/When relevant CCTV footage becomes available, normal procedure does not extend to providing copies/

PP to WYP PSD 24/01/12:

Can you possibly advise why normal procedure does not allow me to witness the content of the CCTV footage, should it be recoverable?

WYP PSD to PP 24/01/12:

In relation to the CCTV, I think we should wait and see whether there is any relevant footage available, prior to discussing whether it can be viewed/copied.



I'm fully entitled to view any CCTV footage or information in relation to this event. If the PSD try and state the reason is for privacy, then as the footage is from a public place, the other people involved have no reasonable right to privacy.

*Update 20/02/12

WYP PSD to PP 10/02/12:

Dear PP

Just to update you; A solution to the video/film footage has still not been found - a colleague from the Public Order Training Dept is working on this matter and seeking guidance from WYP IT. I am hopeful I will have the answer when I return from leave on 20.02.12.

PP to WYP PSD 20/02/12:

Dear WYP PSD,

Many thanks for your most recent update on the 10th February 2012.

I am hopeful that, in your absence on leave, your colleagues have now had some success in finding a solution to the unlikely issues surrounding the CCTV footage?

If not, and given that we're now entering the 7th week since these issues were first identified, and the 16th week of this formal investigation, have you or WYP set a deadline when at which point you will cease seeking a solution to the aforementioned issues?

Further, have you been successful in obtaining the requested statements from all relevant parties involved in my complaint yet, or do these remain outstanding?

It would be appreciated if you could provide an update, along with an indicative date for your first official response to my complaint.

Yours Sincerely,

PP ... x

mikeyyyy Posted on 14/08/2011 11:50
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

i'll wait until some picks out good bits[B)]


EDIT: and actually sympathise with you for the first time ever, i know a lot of people who would of put than man on the ground, man of the law or not

you should get in touch with swales and get a complaint put in and take it all the way because that is bang out and innacceptable treatment

Lisbonlegend Posted on 14/08/2011 11:55
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Hooligan gobshyte.[rle]

shaunb86 Posted on 14/08/2011 11:56
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

A.C.A.B

This kind of situation has happened to me and my friends on number of away games. they couldn't manage a XXXXXX up in a brewery.

You should of taken his number and follow this up and get refunded for your ticket at the very least.

PinkPonce Posted on 14/08/2011 11:58
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

I have done Shaun. And the bloke in charge without the number on his shoulder.

Lisbon, XXXXXX off you boringXXXXXX...

PP ... x

Angelos_Epithemiou Posted on 14/08/2011 12:00
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Yob [rle]

Exiled_in_Herford Posted on 14/08/2011 12:01
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Well put together, just hope you have people to back you up if you are going to make a complaint. If not, you shouldn't even bother. It does seem that you have been harshly dealt with like.

shaunb86 Posted on 14/08/2011 12:02
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

the police view every football fan as a yob fact. when it is a very very small minority.

Poorarca Posted on 14/08/2011 12:03
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

between this and over the top stewarding at the riverside, its becoming nearly impossible to go to a match and be treated like a normal citizen. absolute joke imo.

steelred Posted on 14/08/2011 12:07
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Sounds like they got the hump because you were talking sense and pointing out how ridiculous the whole situation was. Its like trying to XXXXXX in the wind when your dealing with people like that. I feel fo you there ponce.

Benny_Blanco Posted on 14/08/2011 12:07
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Were you the daft fat lad with the beard wearing no socks?

few lads were laughing at you.

What the f*ck were you wearing, soft lad


manhead Posted on 14/08/2011 12:08
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

...thats totally out of order. Jumped up little fkers like that give decent coppers a bad name. The provoke far more trouble than they resolve [V][V][DFS]

Angelos_Epithemiou Posted on 14/08/2011 12:09
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

[:D]


Link: spotted

IsaacHunt Posted on 14/08/2011 12:12
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

You should pass this on to the Football Supporters Federation (FSF) who will take up your case.

dooderooni Posted on 14/08/2011 12:12
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

I hope no-one is daft enough or spiteful enough to point PP's last statement.

And no, this post is not designed to give people ideas.

MKredleaderOne Posted on 14/08/2011 12:12
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

"I then went to The Station, went in the Boozer and accidentally overstayed my welcome by some 3 hours 52 minutes."

Thereby breaching the notice and boasting about the fact.

What's the penalty for that?

About the same as that for rioting



coluka Posted on 14/08/2011 12:12
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Disgraceful behaviour (by West Yorkshires finest). Its no wonder people get fed up when treated like cattle.

Bottom line is they expect you to be silent, never have a personality and put up with any old shoite.How did they know you were going to the game, you could have been going shopping in Leeds ffs.

I would have insisted on leaving and going shopping, If detained, I would have let them do whatever then sued the arse off them for wrongful arrest [|)]

Its a shame that because one or 2 idiots have caused trouble in the past decent people like you PP are made out to be hooligans. This country really is going to the dogs

(woof woof)
xx

100Rod100 Posted on 14/08/2011 12:12
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

"soft lad"

[|)]

gravyboat Posted on 14/08/2011 12:14
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

I was in Yates' from just after 11 waiting for a mate arriving on a train about midday. I could see the coppers gathering outside, so at just before 12, we left, as I knew they were about to keep us in there.

Sounds like they've been over the top. This is just what it's like now. They take massive steps to segregate everyone and it creates a mob mentality because people get frustrated, bored and uncomfortable. There is enough of a police presence at games like this to deal with trouble if it happens, rather than making the entire experience less enjoyable 'just in case'.

borolad259 Posted on 14/08/2011 12:14
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

You should definitely pursue the case. The first stop should be to make sure that the Section 27 was reported and written up by the officer concerned.
Get help though. Liberty, FSF etc

r00fie Posted on 14/08/2011 12:14
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Isaac - was going to post the same thing myself. It gives Police the right to negate a persons freedom and civil liberties for whatever reason they chose. The FSF will fight PPs corner - but the coppers get away with this all the time.

neworder Posted on 14/08/2011 12:16
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

all joking aside thats a shocking story PP.Seriously i hope you get some support from other people who were there, its just plain wrong to be treat like shhtt.
I dont wish to be trivial but as an aside imagine that this sort of intimidation happens on a regular basis not because your colour is red in a white area but because you are brown in a white country it would make you seriously hacked off.
good luck mate.

rufus4 Posted on 14/08/2011 12:18
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

I sympathise with you PinkPonce.I think that football supporters get treated badly by the police.They weren't allowed to kettle the rioters but they can legally kettle us.How come they can do this[V][:(!]

borolad259 Posted on 14/08/2011 12:18
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Ponce...campaign linked below


Link: do it

north_east_invader Posted on 14/08/2011 12:19
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

I had no idea they even had the power to do this ... if I have broken a law, arrest me and prosecute, if not XXXXXX the XXXXXX off. [}:)]

PinkPonce Posted on 14/08/2011 12:19
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Regarding me staying in the station - a Transport Officer told me that they are supposed to provide a map with exclusion zones marked on. They didn't. He also told me that if I stayed put in here I'd be Ok, but if I wanted to go shopping, just tell them I was lost looking for the station as I had no map [:D] ...

So I just stayed there nervously checking twitter for updates. And getting drunk.

PP ... x

Sea_Harrier Posted on 14/08/2011 12:19
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

"Get help though. Liberty, FSA etc"

No, my advice would be to just "let it go". The police have an identity crisis at the moment taking flak from the public, government, civil rights groups et al. Consequently they don't know whether to be Harry the Bástárd or Mary Poppins and the general public have been calling for a tougher police presence on our streets culminating in the sentences currently being administered by the courts. Organisations like Liberty have made the UK a haven for the criminal minority.

PinkPonce Posted on 14/08/2011 12:22
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

SH I couldn't give a fùck how much of a crisis they are going through - they've cost me money on ticket and travel for doing nothing whatsoever mate.

I'll let it go when they've refunded my costs.

PP ... x

Sea_Harrier Posted on 14/08/2011 12:23
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

PP, you have two chances of succeeding,

a) little

b) none

Nice_Haas Posted on 14/08/2011 12:25
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Contact these....

Also do you think PC Swales would be willing to provide a statement on the matter as evidence?


Link: link

PinkPonce Posted on 14/08/2011 12:25
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Oh, and Benny_Blanco - if you had an issue with what I was wearing then why didn't you come and bring it up in the boozer instead of from behind your keyboard?

PP ... x

north_east_invader Posted on 14/08/2011 12:26
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

right, sit back and just allow asshat police to get away with whatever they like without question or challenge ? Can I have another beating sir ? and another ?

[:o)]

dooderooni Posted on 14/08/2011 12:27
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Someone has missed the most obvious question here.

PP, the lady police officer, backdoors etc?

100Rod100 Posted on 14/08/2011 12:28
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

"soft lad"

[|)][cr]

ThePrisoner Posted on 14/08/2011 12:29
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

The solution is simple. Don't gather in a pub, gather in a Starbucks. No alcohol so they couldn't do a section 27. Lattetastic[^]

Anybody going to an away match knows you are likely to be treated like sh!t. That's just the way things are.

Voltaire Posted on 14/08/2011 12:31
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

I just think this entire situation is disgraceful. Good on you PinkPonce if you decide to contest it and I'm sure you'll have the backing of the decent people on here (ignore the idiots).

Sea_Harrier Posted on 14/08/2011 12:33
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

n_e_i,

I'm not condoning what happened to PP by any stretch of the imagination, far from it.

My point is that the law is on the side of the administrators, there will be police collusion and after months of groundwork by the "victim" the case will be kicked into the long grass. To the police PP is just another member of the public and "He looked like he was the sort to cause trouble, yer 'onour" Subjective I know, but that's the truth of the matter, how it is and the system will err on the side of the law.

I'm just offering advice to save PP time, expense and bother.

neworder Posted on 14/08/2011 12:33
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

sea harrier you are plain wrong mate. the police are a mix` of all types but to let a bully get away with this type of behaviour is wrong. it causes resentment against the rank and file coppers who depend on our support. this copper should be hauled in and apologise to PP and the rest of the boro fans. bullies arent appeased.

LeeMiller Posted on 14/08/2011 12:34
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

What would you do next time? Keep stchum and follow orders?

dooderooni Posted on 14/08/2011 12:34
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

I think it was Buddy yesterday who first talked about the risks of this happening increasing because you were in a pub.

It's just common sense really but it does not excuse it.

Some of the treatment we got in the 70's and 80's was criminal and you'd think policing would have moved on but while there are dickheads going to the match to get drunk and possibly have a barny then the police will have to apply some sort of control to the majority.

Best idea is to not do what the majority do and make your own plans.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 14/08/2011 12:34
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Maybe you'll keep your trap shut next time, moaning about £2.50 bus fare.[cr]

hoolio Posted on 14/08/2011 12:34
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

No place at football for efeminate types,well done West Yorkshire constabulary [^]

billy_bigsworth Posted on 14/08/2011 12:35
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

the worst thing ever to do with police is... attempt to reason with them. They simply can't handle it.

They're one step up from club bouncers...

well some are anyway, I've come across some decent coppers in the past but not at football matchs.

hope you get some kind of apology, I'd certainly take it further.



gravyboat Posted on 14/08/2011 12:37
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Sorry S_H, but that is an incredibly depressing outlook.

Even if the chances of something being done are slim, to just not bother is exactly how they want you to behave.

hoolio Posted on 14/08/2011 12:40
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

The worrying thing is this happens to dozens of innocent individuals every weekend of the football season.

GaZBoro Posted on 14/08/2011 12:46
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

"No, my advice would be to just "let it go""


And thats why they get away with it all the time.

People just give in and acquiesce to authority even when they know that authority is acting unlawfully or not doing the job they're paid for. I don't agree with the riots but I can fully understand why its all kicked off. People are angry at authority in all its forms and guises, and PP's experience is probably just one of thousands of injustices that happen every week, if not every day now. Those in authority only continue to get away with it because we let them.

outmac Posted on 14/08/2011 12:49
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

If what you say is true then take it further.
The Football supporters fedreration might
be interested as well.
Ridiculous situation treating folk like plebs. No wonder there's bother treating
people like that.

joshie Posted on 14/08/2011 12:58
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Police in thuggish behaviour shocker!

Jon77 Posted on 14/08/2011 12:58
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

I started going to away games from 1988 and have arrived in towns / cities up and down England via train and have NEVER been locked down by the police.

I have walked past a few pubs with Boro supporters in there who are rounded up. Always on the other side of the line though.

When you go places like Leeds or Hull you know what is going to happen if you arrive at a certain time at the train station, bit of forward planning [^]

Sympathise with you, but it is an avoidable situation.

Space_Face Posted on 14/08/2011 13:02
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

How many others from the pub got sent packing?

Sea_Harrier Posted on 14/08/2011 13:02
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

OK I know what you mean about "rights" but the establishment sees:-

a) football fans - they must be looking for trouble. A legacy from the 70s and Frontline philosophy.

b) they had been drinking - the stereotype that everyone who has a couple of pints, especially at a football match, will cause bother. The public must be protected.

c) although the isolated victim does have rights the officers will be aware that there were a hundred of more in the pub and it only takes one to kick off and cause a riot which has been evident of late. The officers, due to recent events, will have had nerves tensioned like piano wires.

d) the establishment, especially the police, will in the vast majority of cases be exonerated and supported by the system.

However please pursue the event and hopefully you will get an explanation and apology, but don't hold your breath.

Capybara Posted on 14/08/2011 13:06
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Yes it's avoidable as Jon77 says, but you shouldn't have to. As gravyboat says, you should contest it.

Steel-City_Smoggy Posted on 14/08/2011 13:09
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You got to Leeds too late for a start. Once you open your mouth to the police then you are fighting a losing battle even if they have been out of order.

Buddy Posted on 14/08/2011 13:11
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I'm glad others have given the same response to Sea_Harrier that I was going to. The only way this sort of thing will stop happening is if there is a court judgement or legislation change which tells them they're not alowed to do it, and that will only happen if peoplle challenge it.

If things happened exactly as described then I'd have been in exactly the same position. My most recent experience was at Mansfield a few years ago where I was filmed and threatened with arrest for asking directions (no exaggeration). Fortunately there was a sensible senior officer at hand that time.

Kevlar Posted on 14/08/2011 13:14
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Billy Bigsworth makes a good point.

Reason to the coppers is like a red rag to a bull.

Don't make the excuse that a few rotten apples spoil an otherwise fine harvest. If the other coppers were so good and did their job, there would be no bent coppers.

Sea Harrier, it's that kind of mentality that has led us to these times, where you can be excluded from a city, for committing no offence!

The police are only going to get more and more powers after the recent riots. How long until they can lock you up overnight because they don't like the look of you? Easily jutifiable if they thought you were going to incite a riot, or were likely to get drunk and misbehave.

Times are changing and the noose will get tighter, unless people band together and make enough noise about this craziness. I just wish it wasn't going to be a camp looking, sockless wonder leading the way.[:P]

It's a pity there are no rich people or MPs that like football. Then maybe these questions would be brought up for real, national debate.

Sea_Harrier Posted on 14/08/2011 13:18
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"I'm glad others have given the same response to Sea_Harrier that I was going to."


Buddy, what on earth are you writing? Read all my words. Nowhere do I condone the police actions and merely giving a realistic scenario to the outcome.

Why do you always assume that it is your last word that must be made gospel? You really do have a very high opinion of yourself.

Muttley Posted on 14/08/2011 13:19
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I absolutely think you should challenge it. You may find it does indeed get brushed under the carpet however if you don't contest it they have just got away with it. Raising a complaint will at the very least make sure they have to go through the motions of dealing with it. It will generate paper work. I would certainly talk to the Football Supporters Federation, I would write to the club, the West Yorkshire Police and your M.P. Amass as much evidence as you can, if possible see if the manager from the pub could support your version of the behaviour of the supporters he had foisted upon him. Even if you do not get an apology the paper work generated if everyone were to do this would moderate their actions.

I'd also want to know why an officer did not display his number, I thought this was mandatory?

north_east_invader Posted on 14/08/2011 13:21
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Sea_Harrier, your advice is not to bother and basically just accept it. That advice is ridiculous.

Condone or not, its that kind of attitude that allows this kind of thing to keep on happening. Just keep your head down and your mouth shut, its insanity. It should be challenged every time it happens.

gravyboat Posted on 14/08/2011 13:26
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We actually used the buses that were laid on to get to the ground, as we were drinking with Leeds fans before the game, and they were getting on them. We then queued to get the bus back as well, seen as out tickets were 'return', rather than walk or pay for a cab.

The queue was massive however, and when a double-decker pulled in and went straight to a group of Boro fans that had kept back from the main queue, we jumped on that one. It took us into the city (after a very long wait) and straight to a side entrance of the station, which was surrounded on both sides by the police, and we were forced directly onto the platform where the Middlesbrough train was waiting. Well, I wasn't going back to Middlesbrough because I don't live there, which I told a policeman. Another couple of lads had actually driven and parked in the city, which one of them pointed out to the police. Both of us were shoved into the station and told we would spent the night locked-up if we didn't get on the train. It was only when I got on the platform and spoke to another policeman that we were allowed outside of the police line.

09_dave_09 Posted on 14/08/2011 13:32
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PP I think you should make an official complaint, seems good grounds. Best case you will get an apology but I would be satisfied with an apology. I understand they have a difficult job to do but they seem to recruit in general a similar mind set of person. Lads who wernt that popular growing up and want to show their authority in every situation possible. Im not making uneducated opinions there I would say I know over 15 coppers and 11 fall into that catagory.

leroy Posted on 14/08/2011 13:36
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That swales is a right fanny, similar thing has happened to me loads of times, hes there on behalf of cleveland police but does nowt,waste of time him being there

Buddy Posted on 14/08/2011 13:38
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gravy - that happened to me in Manchester over 15 years ago. Ridiculous it still goes on.

Harrier - what nei ssid, although you might want to slso consider how ridiculous it is to criticise someone for having a high opinion of themself.

slipshod Posted on 14/08/2011 13:39
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PP, genuinly feel for you, an official complaint would get you nowhere. I had a similar problem at Man U a few years back and Swales rattled off the same response. Coppers at footy matches can be absolute tools.

gravyboat Posted on 14/08/2011 13:47
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Same happened in Sunderland last time we played them. Forced directly to the ground 3 HOURS before kick-off. The turn-styles weren't even open when we got there! I was pushed around that day as well, simply for asking - in a perfectly reasonable manner - if I could leave to meet friends who had my ticket.

subbuteo_171 Posted on 14/08/2011 13:48
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Utterly appalling.

The treatment of football fans by the authorities is an absolute disgrace.




Link: Make a complaint here....

PokerStar Posted on 14/08/2011 13:50
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When u go to football matches the police and the laws change, if we were rioting they would of sat back and done nothing,i`ve been to Leeds many times and when i`ve gone on the train its been the same herded up and put in a pub and then bussed to the ground (except last season cos the council would`nt pay the o/t on new years day) and had to pay, and for nothing happening in Yates u must of had yer eyes closed and have no feeling in your feet, their was a bit of bother in their, 3 Leeds fans got swilled and had bottles and glasses flung at them, never try reasoning with the police at a football match u will never win

Sea_Harrier Posted on 14/08/2011 13:55
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Buddy,

"you might want to slso consider how ridiculous it is to criticise someone for having a high opinion of themself."



Yes I normally wouldn't criticise, but I'll make an exception in your case.

oldsmoggie Posted on 14/08/2011 14:05
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PP go for it and Sea Harrier you would do well to remember Edmund Burkes quotation
"Evil flourishes when good men do nothing."?


borobadge Posted on 14/08/2011 14:05
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cops abuse position and power when 'serving' the public...shocker....

he was probably pi$$£d off that he wasnt selected for 3 weeks of continous overtime in london, and this ws his way of showing the 'team manager' that he was 'up for it' at the next london away team fixtures

Put a complaint in and they will 'have yer', theyre a bit narrow like that....


your not black either, PP !..[8D]


woodymfc Posted on 14/08/2011 14:10
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Tough luck there Poncey fella

Next time shhhhhhhhhhh

TWoS Posted on 14/08/2011 14:18
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My blood's boiling here! I hope you don't take the cowardly advice of Sea Harrier (that's a warplane mate, maybe you should be called Two Seater Cessna) and you take this as far as you can. Absolute disgrace.

TWoS Posted on 14/08/2011 14:23
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Just wanted to add that this is a great example of why it's best to travel by car if you can, without colours, and stay away from 'designated' pubs and generally from anything that's laid on especially for football fans apart from the match itself. Once you're at the ground of course they've got you so the way out can be more of a problem. But at least you've got to the game.

slavens_holgate_fence Posted on 14/08/2011 14:31
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if you HAD kept your trap shut you would have seen the game though! In a situation like that where you could probably sense the police being over the top, use your brain before gobbing off

woodymfc Posted on 14/08/2011 14:34
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My blood's boiling here! I hope you don't take the cowardly advice of Sea Harrier (that's a warplane mate, maybe you should be called Two Seater Cessna) and you take this as far as you can. Absolute disgrace. [:D][:o)]

gravyboat Posted on 14/08/2011 14:35
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Whilst that is true, the issue is that it shouldn't be acceptable.

If you want to make your own way to the ground, you should have every right to. And you should have every right to question why you're not being allowed to, without fear of being arrested or being forced to leave the city.

Bandy Posted on 14/08/2011 14:36
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This sort of nazi control happens all the time at leeds. Shocking really. Our train from harrogate got in just after the Boro train so a lucky escape. Didnt see one copper in the station!

Towell Posted on 14/08/2011 14:36
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Shyte the way fans are treated by plod.

Take it as far as you can, I reckon a long winded, rambling letter like that one you wrote to British Airways would do the trick.

woodymfc Posted on 14/08/2011 14:42
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Take it as far as you can, I reckon a long winded, rambling letter like that one you wrote to British Airways would do the trick.

A total waste of time and should not have been so naive in continually challenging the plod [:o)]

Sparticus Posted on 14/08/2011 14:59
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PP
I have contact with national FSF reps, who would be very happy to advise and possibly support you through the legal process if you did want to clear your name and have this incident removed from any records. This would also include compensation for missing the game.
They have successfully taken action against local police forces, most notably Greater Manchester Police when they refused Stoke City fans, who had stopped at an pub outside of Manchester, access to Manchester and he whole bus was forced to return to Stoke.
At the very least would be happy to document your experience to demonstrate a pattern of behaviour, as it is unlikely they will only treat Boro fans in this way.
I have also dealt with PC Swales in the past and found him to very reasonable and supportive of fans.

gravyboat Posted on 14/08/2011 15:03
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'A total waste of time and should not have been so naive in continually challenging the plod'

Oh dear. Another 'yes sir, no sir' conformist.

Rapid-Viagra Posted on 14/08/2011 15:12
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Section 27 of the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006

Section 27 of the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 is designed to prevent potential 'alcohol-related disorder' and gives the police powers to move individuals on from a specified area for up 48 hours. The police serving the order need to have good reason and evidence to support their assertion that you are likely to cause alcohol-related crime or disorder (just being in a pub is not just cause).

If you're are told to move on from the locality, the police can specify the means and route, although the law fails to define 'locality,' so they could force you to travel a considerable distance.

Note: The police have no powers to make you sign anything. If you feel you've been unfairly dealt with under S27, get the details of the officer concerned and - ideally - get it all on camera, along with the names of any witnesses.

If you want to argue the toss, ask to speak to a senior officer and put your case forward peacefully while complying with the order (i.e. walking away). If you stand your ground you're likely to be arrested and/or fined by the courts.

woodymfc Posted on 14/08/2011 15:16
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Not at all Gravy

I would'nt waste my time with the issue, the Police will win hands down.

Sorry PP, you were really unlucky mate

Move on like a good QS does and don't waste your time XXXXXXing against the wind [^]

Angelmatty Posted on 14/08/2011 15:17
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AS much as i think your a cock
i do even feel sorry for you with this if it is true

paulmboro Posted on 14/08/2011 15:18
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Ponce you should ignore sea_harrier's moronic suggestion and pursue a complaint.

Don't let these pigs get you down mate. [^]


centralscrutinizer Posted on 14/08/2011 15:35
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One thing that stands out as ludicrous is that the police are actually forcing people to go to the pub before the match.

oldsmoggie Posted on 14/08/2011 15:36
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what if you were a muslim?

woodymfc Posted on 14/08/2011 15:37
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One thing that stands out as ludicrous is that the police are actually forcing people to go to the pub before the match.


[:D][^]

Benny_Blanco Posted on 14/08/2011 15:42
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Who gives a fcuk?

The lad is a fat, fanny who dresses like a clown, easy target for the Police, particularly if he's set his lip up.

Putty in the hands of the Police...


HUMBERRED Posted on 14/08/2011 15:43
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Me and my mate got to Leeds early and just blended in and did our own thing.We saw the army of police guarding Yates's.There were six mounted officers in the vicinity to.

gravyboat Posted on 14/08/2011 15:44
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I take it you called him a fat fanny to his face when you saw him yesterday?

Benny_Blanco Posted on 14/08/2011 15:46
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Didn't know who he was until I read this ridiculous post earlier.

Few of the lads were just laughing at him.

Fattimo_Maccarone82 Posted on 14/08/2011 15:46
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end of the day u should know how the police are at Leeds they have been like this for years !!

PP next time just go to the match I'd doubt u would of got picked up

HolgateCorner Posted on 14/08/2011 15:54
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The cops get nervous when the Frontline is mentioned on Boro message boards.

A mate of mine works for derbyshire police and he tells me that some of our hooligans have a very poor reputation.

Bitchhunter Posted on 14/08/2011 16:11
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I was in Yates and at somepoint between 2 and 2.30 some nobheads threw drinks and by the sound of it glasses(I cant confirm the last bit, its just my suspicions) at some Leeds fans leaving the pub.
At that point all boro fans were asked to leave the pub.

Since-72 Posted on 14/08/2011 16:42
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PP....... Lessons Learnt?.......try this one....dont speak or give the OB the time of the day, keep ye head down avoid and blank them at all times.....seems to me like you played your part....... loose lips an all that..... UTB

BoroPhil Posted on 14/08/2011 16:47
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it's mental really, I was on the same train but was meeting up with a mate in Leeds, we then actually went to Yates's voluntarily and we left through the police cordon with no problems but then I didn't have any colours on

Voltaire Posted on 14/08/2011 16:52
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There's probably a conclusion to be drawn that trying to get 'matey' with the police, however well-intentioned, does nothing more than mark you out. PP made the mistake of acting decently but assertively if politely. If he'd have sullenly and wordlessly complied with every instruction he'd have been at the match. Talk, ask questions, 'banter', section 27. Policemen are often 'sound' enough individually but when you put them together they're a really bad influence on each other.

oooooo Posted on 14/08/2011 16:59
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I don't think he deserved anything for speaking to them so let me make this clear, I do not think you should take any blame in this pp.

One thing this has reinforced in me though, especially given the excellent advice about not reasoning with them is that I will never ever under any circumstances, arrested or not, speak to the police. Their willingness to listen to you goes as far as it takes for them to get some tiny excuse to abuse a law to move you on.

We live in a police state and the day that the police served the public are over.

Pursue this as far as you can pp, and good luck.

Voltaire Posted on 14/08/2011 17:08
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People might jump on for using 'police state' as we don't have jackbooted Gestapo marching down our streets. But to me, the principles of the police state lie in arbitrary police power. This, and hundreds of cases like it, are perfect examples of the arbitrariness of the law as executed by the police. They do not have to prove an offence has been committed, but that there's a possibility of an offence being committed. And they don't really have to prove it. And why is it 'arbitrary' as opposed to just 'power'? As there's no recourse.

TWoS Posted on 14/08/2011 17:11
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I would'nt waste my time with the issue, the Police will win hands down.

Sorry PP, you were really unlucky mate

Move on like a good QS does and don't waste your time XXXXXXing against the wind [:D][:o)]

"Certainly Sir - and may I presume to ask if I might lick it clean afterwards?"

ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 14/08/2011 17:13
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"dont speak or give the OB the time of the day, keep ye head down avoid and blank them at all times.....seems to me like you played your part....... loose lips an all that."

Without wanting to sound like I'm putting the boot in ('cos I'm not), that's probably the best advice to away fans in this situation - i.e. don't let the b****rds have an excuse for treating you like XXXXXX. It's wrong that you can't actually question the police. As someone pointed out, when you try to reason with them, they don't like it. Probably because they then think you're a smartarse and they don't like it when someone smarter than them shows them up for the idiots that they are. It seems that some coppers sympathised with you predicament. Did they not try and reason with the idiot on a power-trip?

PP, good luck with any complaint you put in and I hope you get compensated.

atkingson Posted on 14/08/2011 17:15
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Sounds like you had a tough time yesterday , pp.

the police can be bad to you sometimes but don't worry you'll get your license back mate

OPEO Posted on 14/08/2011 17:24
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I pray that the copper involved gets eternal trots and visits the bog three times an hour for the rest of his natural. And has to ue IZAL bogpaper.[:D][:D][:D]

Fletch Posted on 14/08/2011 17:41
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The FSF have taken on SECTION 27 numerous times in the past and lost (Derby fans for one) unfortunately mate there is nowt you can do against this unjust and ridiculous police order, unlucky pal...

Blame it on the elected bent MP's who vote these laws in...

SKEELO Posted on 14/08/2011 18:41
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27 Directions to individuals who represent a risk of disorderE+W.This section has no associated Explanatory Notes
(1)If the test in subsection (2) is satisfied in the case of an individual aged 16 or over who is in a public place, a constable in uniform may give a direction to that individual—.
(a)requiring him to leave the locality of that place; and.
(b)prohibiting the individual from returning to that locality for such period (not exceeding 48 hours) from the giving of the direction as the constable may specify..
(2)That test is—.
(a)that the presence of the individual in that locality is likely, in all the circumstances, to cause or to contribute to the occurrence of alcohol-related crime or disorder in that locality, or to cause or to contribute to a repetition or continuance there of such crime or disorder; and.
(b)that the giving of a direction under this section to that individual is necessary for the purpose of removing or reducing the likelihood of there being such crime or disorder in that locality during the period for which the direction has effect or of there being a repetition or continuance in that locality during that period of such crime or disorder..
(3)A direction under this section—.
(a)must be given in writing;.
(b)may require the individual to whom it is given to leave the locality in question either immediately or by such time as the constable giving the direction may specify;.
(c)must clearly identify the locality to which it relates;.
(d)must specify the period for which the individual is prohibited from returning to that locality;.
(e)may impose requirements as to the manner in which that individual leaves the locality, including his route; and.
(f)may be withdrawn or varied (but not extended so as to apply for a period of more than 48 hours) by a constable..
(4)A constable may not give a direction under this section that prevents the individual to whom it is given—.
(a)from having access to a place where he resides;.
(b)from attending at any place which he is required to attend for the purposes of any employment of his or of any contract of services to which he is a party;.
(c)from attending at any place which he is expected to attend during the period to which the direction applies for the purposes of education or training or for the purpose of receiving medical treatment; or.
(d)from attending at any place which he is required to attend by any obligation imposed on him by or under an enactment or by the order of a court or tribunal..
(5)A constable who gives a direction under this section must make a record of—.
(a)the terms of the direction and the locality to which it relates;.
(b)the individual to whom it is given;.
(c)the time at which it is given;.
(d)the period during which that individual is required not to return to the locality..
(6)A person who fails to comply with a direction under this section is guilty of an offence and shall be liable, on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale..
(7)In section 64A of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (c. 60) (power to photograph suspects), in subsection (1B), after paragraph (c) insert—.
“(ca)given a direction by a constable under section 27 of the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006;”..
(8)In this section “public place” means—.
(a)a highway; or.
(b)any place to which at the material time the public or any section of the public has access, on payment or otherwise, as of right or by virtue of express or implied permission;.
and for this purpose “place” includes a place on a means of transport.
.

Space_Face Posted on 14/08/2011 18:42
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Got the ton he said,on Twitter, it would.

oooooo Posted on 14/08/2011 18:45
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Yoda?

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 14/08/2011 18:52
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I wonder what sort of kickback the manager of Yates has to pay?

glosboro Posted on 14/08/2011 18:53
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I got into Leeds bang on 1pm and went to Yates, as every other pub along the way had bouncers that looked like extras from Universal Soldier and were checking match tickets for any of those they didn't recognise.

There were mix of Boro and Leeds fans in there with a bit of banter, the only moans being the price of the beer and the barmaids that I could only guess were seemingly drafted in from the local chippy they were that dis-interested in serving.

In terms of trouble, 1 Leeds fans got a bit of beer chucked over and his response was to chuck his whole pint back. Which obviously ended with a few other objects flying about and everyone told to get out minutes later.We were then kept waiting for 30 minutes or so outside Yates, then marched off half a mile or so down the road to wait for the buses.

What PP says about the bus situation is 100% correct, at least 2 other totally empty double decker buses passed us as we were waiting. For the first 15 minutes or so of the 1st bus arriving there must have been less than 20 fans onboard as the police dithered about what they were going to do. Total joke, and obviously as time ticked on and the situation didn't seem to be resolved people started getting agitated.

A lad next to me who complained to a copper about potentially missing the match because of this got pulled out and told to do a video interview into the police camera. He was allowed to get on however. During this PP got taken out and was being spoken to by a group of coppers, I could hear him speaking to a officer by the bus door about being allowed to get a taxi previous to this.

The 1st bus then eventually left, there were 2 other buses literally down the bottom of the road totally empty that had been there for most of the time but the police weren't having any of it. We'd been waiting for the best part of an hour by then. A lot of people needed the toilet and eventually they let people go, 2 at a time with police in tow, to go for a XXXXXX. Had absolutely no choice but to pay £2.50 on finally getting on a double decker and then got to the ground a few minutes before kick off.

After the game I went into the queue to catch a shuttle bus back and like another poster got put on a separate bus with a load of other Boro fans, a lot of which appeared to be 14 and 15 year old kiddies who were remonstrating with the police that they actually came on a coach and what was the point in taking them to the train station when they'd had to go back to the ground. The police were having none of it and basically told them to shut it. Interestingly, we didn't have to pay for the use of this 1.

Got to the station about 10 to 6 and a door straight to the platform for the train back to Middlesbrough had been left open for everyone with a police line around the bus.

I got off, amongst others, and told them I'm going south not back to Middlesbrough but was told tough you cant get out of the escort and told to go to the platform through the corridor, being filmed by a copper with a video camera to boot. Obviously I didn't get on the train and instead walked along the platform to the steps as I had to catch a train just after 6 to get to Sheffield for my connection back to Gloucester. I was stopped twice doing this, both times having to go through the rigmarole of explaining myself and having to get my train ticket out to let me through. The platform isn't that long.

As I got through, a group of about 15 kids were allowed to walk to the ticket gates in the station and as I passed could hear a different copper on his radio saying "they've all been taken back to the station by mistake, we're gonna have to go back to the ground as that's where their bus is"

Just made it in time for the train. Total farce basically.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 14/08/2011 18:55
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PP - I've not read the whole thread yet(I will after I've posted this though) but I would just say copy and paste your OP into an email and send it straight to the Football Supporters' Federation.

A bit from their website: "Watching football is not a crime! has been launched as a direct reaction to recent instances of police officers using Section 27 of the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 as a way of stopping football supporters, usually in pubs, from attending matches. We have teamed up with the civil rights organisation Liberty and are fully committed to taking this issue to court in order to prevent police using Section 27 on innocent football supporters."

They'll be very interested in your experience.


Link: FSF

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 14/08/2011 18:56
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Oh, and anyone else off here who experienced something similar to what PP did yesterday, you should also note down exactly what happened and send it to the FSF.

bear66 Posted on 14/08/2011 19:05
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None of this surprises me . . . . which is worrying. Good luck P_P with your quest for 'justice'

Lisbonlegend Posted on 14/08/2011 19:08
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Bloody sympathisers, Ponce is a trouble causer and deserved his punishment, why did no one else receive this notice.[rle]

mikeyyyy Posted on 14/08/2011 19:10
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lisbon, seriously what the fukc are you doing?

there's a time to fish for bites and this is not it

jog on

Lisbonlegend Posted on 14/08/2011 19:16
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Poor mikeyyyy[sad]

mikeyyyy Posted on 14/08/2011 19:17
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sorry, what does that even mean?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 14/08/2011 19:18
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[sad]

mikeyyyy Posted on 14/08/2011 19:18
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come on lisbon, i'm calling your bluff, what does it mean?

slipshod Posted on 14/08/2011 19:19
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Lisbon you are making yourself look like a tool[:D]

ToTheMoon Posted on 14/08/2011 19:24
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I'm losing all respect for you lisbon used to enjoy reading your threads but your showing yourself up now. It's embarrassing

north_east_invader Posted on 14/08/2011 19:28
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Lisbon, the only person you are showing up here is yourself mate [rle]

backofthenet Posted on 14/08/2011 19:29
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Totally our of order this tbh. The majority of lads in that situation would have had a good sup and been well up for the game only to have it dashed by some prick that doesn't know, by the sounds of it, the full details of the situation.

Leeds scum.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 14/08/2011 19:32
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Jesus Christ, what's wrong with the lot of you, do you really care that much.[:D]

oooooo Posted on 14/08/2011 19:32
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Let's not presume that our own corrupt police force would do any different. I'd be interested to see the views of other fans who visit the riverside on how our police compare.

mikeyyyy Posted on 14/08/2011 19:33
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Care about what?

Lisbon, what do you mean by 'poor mikey'?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 14/08/2011 19:34
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[sad]

mikeyyyy Posted on 14/08/2011 19:36
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wow, mans out of ideas so he's sticking with his 'sadface' tactic

embarassing that like.[|)]

Buddy Posted on 14/08/2011 19:41
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Yes Lisbon, we do, because it could have been any of us.

gravyboat Posted on 14/08/2011 19:48
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What Buddy said.

Who it happened to is totally irrelevant. If he's being genuine with this account of what happened, it's completely out of order. Another half-an-hour, and I'd have been stuck in Yates' as well, and if I'd have had to spend the next hour waiting around for a bus that wasn't turning up, I'd have had something to say as well. It was bad enough almost being marched onto a train I didn't want to get on.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 14/08/2011 19:49
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[sad]

Voltaire Posted on 14/08/2011 19:53
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Yep. Lisbon - time and a place, mate. Time and a place. [V]

Glosboro - that sounds just dreadful. Looks like you got out of it okay but those people made to go to the station when they were on the coach. Complete and utter abuse of power, which should not be tolerated.

flaps Posted on 14/08/2011 19:53
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You need to stop posting LisbonLegend you're embarrassing yourself kidda.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 14/08/2011 19:55
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[8)]

joshie Posted on 14/08/2011 20:01
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Sanctimonious isnt in it.

I would be very surprised if this sort of thing doesnt happen every week. All of us know the police treat football fans like criminals.

I sympathise with anyone who has to endure the police's thuggish, heavy handed behaviour but LL is having a bit of crack and for people from Boro telling other Boro people there is the time and place for crack is possibly the saddest part of this thread.

toshoffathebillstash Posted on 14/08/2011 20:02
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Maybe with the new e-petitions scheme, we can get this discussed in Parliament. Only need 99,999 more supporters and finally PP will get a step closer to the justice he deserves.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 14/08/2011 20:06
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Spot on joshie, you'd think someone had died the way these sad sacks are whining.[^] I expect it from flaps mind.[rle]

You know what will happen if you keep gobbling off to Police at a football match, especially Yorkshire Police. If Ponce had of shut up he'd have made the match, albeit later than he would have liked. It's not right but as a previous poster alluded to, keep your head down and get on with it.

gravyboat Posted on 14/08/2011 20:08
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'keep your head down and get on with it'

They've turned us into a nation of sheep. How sad.

HUMBERRED Posted on 14/08/2011 20:08
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In a week where the police's powers have been debated, it's ironic how footy fans are treat when some civil disorder has seemingly been let to calm itself down.

ts8boro Posted on 14/08/2011 20:09
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PP sounds like a good bloke to me and didnt deserve what happened .. hope it gets sorted out mate

Lisbonlegend Posted on 14/08/2011 20:10
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Gravy boat, it's all about self preservation and there's two sides to every story.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 14/08/2011 20:10
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I don't think asking a police officer why he's doing what he's doing in the lead up to a game of football, when no offence has been committed, constitutes 'gobbing off' to be quite honest.

Good on PP for what he did(which, by the way, seems to be 'asking a police officer something before a football match').

Lisbonlegend Posted on 14/08/2011 20:11
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PP was upset about his £2.50, I know, I've met the bloke and it was an accident waiting to happen.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 14/08/2011 20:12
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Viv, how come everyone else managed to get in ok?

Gillandi Posted on 14/08/2011 20:13
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Ashamed to be a Boro fan. The place should have been trashed the moment you saw the beer prices.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 14/08/2011 20:16
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Not sure. Do you think it is wrong to ask a police officer why they are taking your photograph when you haven't committed an offence? Do you think it's ok for the police to keep you in one place for a few hours just because you're going to a game of football? Do you think it's ok for fans to spend a fortune on match-tickets and end up missing chunks of the game(if not all of it) because the police have decided to throw their weight around?


*edit - Do you also not mind police officers being on duty at football games with their numbers covered up? Do you think it's fine that the police are able to film or take a photograph of whoever they like, but you're not allowed to do the same to them and can be arrested for it?

Capybara Posted on 14/08/2011 20:22
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oooooo, as someone who travels from a distance to home games I have on more than one occasion had to 'prove' that I was not a follower of the away team on arriving at Middlesbrough railway station to avoid being marched straight to the ground.

mikeyyyy Posted on 14/08/2011 20:25
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they should have their numbers showing for certian but ACTUALLY they are allowed to film anyone they like, even 'covertly', AS LONG as it is a public place where you WOULD USUALLY expect to being watched on cctv anyway

BUT, i still think what happened is disgraceful and anyone backing or defending this police officer for giving someone a basic lack of human rights is quite frankly PATHETIC.

what if those 15 year old boys didn't make it back to their bus?
imaging the worry of their parents and the worry of the children stranded in the middle of leeds, no money, no way home and a lck of basic knowledge about where they are?

EDIT: it is not just the right of the police to film, it's anyone right so long as it is a public place where you'd expect cctv

Voltaire Posted on 14/08/2011 20:37
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"but LL is having a bit of crack and for people from Boro telling other Boro people there is the time and place for crack is possibly the saddest part of this thread."

I've never been entirely sure what 'crack' means in this context, but I did think it had to have an element of wit and humour to it, rather than simply being obnoxious.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 14/08/2011 20:38
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Course not Viv but I know it's the law so I keep my head down.

zzzzz Posted on 14/08/2011 20:39
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And if the police hadn't been in control on Saturday and it had all kicked off you lot would have been jumping squealing like stuck pigs.

Any neutral reading this thread would think you're all a bunch of liberal vvankers bleating on about how you've been treated by the big bad plod, a reasonable opinion especially taking into account what's just happened these last few days.

Someone, likely someone the police saw as a gobshyte, missed the game.

Big fckin deal.


Lisbonlegend Posted on 14/08/2011 20:40
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Voltaire.[:X]

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 14/08/2011 20:45
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mikeyyy - I've read a few reports of people being arrested/having their cameras or video recorders confiscated for filming the police. They apply the law as and when it suits them, it seems. That's certainly the impression I get from them.



Link: One example

Red_Matter Posted on 14/08/2011 21:07
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Is Lisbon's comments objective or personal? Definitely the latter for me. He's jealous and can't stand it when PP gets all the attention. Sad. [:o)]

mikeyyyy Posted on 14/08/2011 21:12
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VIV-
yeah i know alot has been said about police being corrupt in the last couple of weeks but
it really is getting out of hand and have totally lost all faith in them after hearing about the boys on the bus an PP.

i wasn't aware there was a law meaning photography is made illegal if helpful to terrorists, if that's true facebook would of been banned ages ago due to ANY picture being helpful to a terrorist whatever the context

disgraceful

zzzzz Posted on 14/08/2011 21:16
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mikeyyyyyyyyy

You've totally lost faith in the police after what happened to Ponce?

FFS. [:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

mikeyyyy Posted on 14/08/2011 21:18
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i'm sorry were you totally unaware of the other reasons i'd stated or did you see 'PP' and jizzed and your eyes glazed over?

also added to the reasons, have you seen that link VIV posted?

Capybara Posted on 14/08/2011 21:21
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mikeyyyy, the legislation has been used against railway enthusiasts photographing trains, would you believe.

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 14/08/2011 21:23
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"They apply the law as and when it suits them, it seems"

One or two cases isn't representative of the 150,000 police across the country though viv is it?

zzzzz Posted on 14/08/2011 21:23
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I can see you all getting damp pants over what TBH is trivia compared to the big issues the police have had to deal with these last few days.

To keep the bogie men away occasionally a saint has to be sacrificed. PP was that soldier. [:D]

joshie Posted on 14/08/2011 21:23
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'I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.'

Unless I am being serious about something and then I will tell you there is a time and a place..

Lisbonlegend Posted on 14/08/2011 21:24
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For once I agree with you zzzzz.[^]

mikeyyyy Posted on 14/08/2011 21:26
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do you know what capy

i'd only just heard of that legislation
as far as i'd of been aware- some unmarked policemen comes up to me asking for my phone, what more would they expect than for me to defend myself if they don't reveal themself as an officer?

my self defence would later end up as assault on a police officer which is a greater charge.
thing i can't understand is why you get longer for attacking police or hurling verbal abuse at them?
we're all the same species with the same human rights aren't we

few years ago i remember this story about a man arrested for calling a police horse 'gay'



Link: crime of the century

mikeyyyy Posted on 14/08/2011 21:29
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as for lisbon (to55er for the day)
don't come on here whining to us when this inevitably does happen to you, as a man who prides himself on away games and supporter of the year *COUGH*m and likes his ale, because it will and...

nobody will be there to fight your corner and will be laughed at all the way home.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 14/08/2011 21:31
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It won't and if it did, I wouldn't cry about it.

oooooo Posted on 14/08/2011 21:32
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Even more so ludicrous when you consider that magnificently presented stallion was single-hoofedly corralling the fans with a delicate bit of dressage.

Capy, it's all coming back to me. Did you clear your throat and give them a quick 'yerjokingarnya'?

mikeyyyy Posted on 14/08/2011 21:34
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LMFAO The second biggest attention seeker of the bored wouldn't whinge about it?
there's not one person on this board who would agree with you on that,

you're a fukc!ing teapot today you lad
it's like a mug but larger and holds more tea
[:o)]

Theodore_Bear Posted on 14/08/2011 21:34
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While not without sympathy for a Boro fan not getting the game the Bear is a bit stumped here.

1. There were many threads on here last week saying exactly what would happen to Boro fans arriving in Leeds by train - coralled into Yates.

2. Ponce had been drinking.

3. Ponce repeatedly went up to several officers in effect pleading he was a "special case" and should be allowed to wander off to a different pub, get a taxi or walk to the stadium in an unfamiliar city. BTW it's a very long walk from the station and even setting off at 20 to you would have missed kick off never mind 10 to 3. At best this sounds a little bit annoying.

4. Again as described on threads on here last week Boro fans were then coralled to the bus stops. This happens every Leeds home game and the these police were working to a plan that has no doubt worked hundreds of times before.

5. You won't realise this but there were roadworks closing a section of the inner ring road (major east/west dual carriageway route that runs down to the M621 and Elland Road). As a consequence many other routes were chocker and this may have delayed the buses getting from/to the stadium and then back again for more pick ups. The police have no control over traffic once it is jamming up, they can't make more buses magically appear.

It's not great that Ponce got the order but the alternative was probably them arresting him for being an annoyance (on the pretence he was drunk & disorderly) while they were trying to watch over a couple of hundred Boro fans.

So the next question, will Ponce be at Barnsley on Tuesday night?

atkingson Posted on 14/08/2011 21:35
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I think this is an important lesson for anyone who thinks it's big and clever to drink before a game.

TWoS Posted on 14/08/2011 21:38
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"I know it's the law so I keep my head down."

Just sad.
And what law? The one that says you have to do whatever a police officer says, go wherever they decide you should go, even though you have no wish to go there and that if you so much as question any part of those impositions they can do to you pretty much what they feel like and that's your fault? A lot of police are bullying scum and "keeping your head down" enables that bullying.

OPEO Posted on 14/08/2011 21:51
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I was taking photos of a bird and had my camera confiscated. Don't know what the world's coming too. She didn't have any clothes on mind.[8)][:D]

north_east_invader Posted on 14/08/2011 21:52
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"but LL is having a bit of crack and for people from Boro telling other Boro people there is the time and place for crack is possibly the saddest part of this thread"

That's not crack, that's just being an asshole. Massive difference.

I don't know PP from adam, but I sympathise with this story and, especially not having known about this particular legislation could have acted very similarly. I appreciate there are 2 sides to the story, but from what others have posted it sounds scarily common, and if so needs contesting.

zzzzz Posted on 14/08/2011 21:55
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15 minutes to get outta town [:D]
Put yourself in the WPC's shoes who was subject to PP's craic for a couple of hours...

"I built T5"
"I have two houses, one in London"
"Look at this pic of my new car"
"The doc says the spots will clear up soon"
"I'm the Pink Ponce"

FFS [:I]

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 14/08/2011 21:55
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"One or two cases isn't representative of the 150,000 police across the country though viv is it?"

It's more than just one or two cases though isn't it. Get in touch with the FSF and ask them how many instances of this nature they're aware of.

Vasily_Rats Posted on 14/08/2011 22:05
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Doyle Police finally get their man.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 14/08/2011 22:08
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Northeastinvader, I do know Ponce from Adam and he's the tightest man alive. The £2.50 bus fare they wanted would have been like sticking hot pokers in his eyes. He'll have been whining like a split arse, even worse that he was drunk. No wonder they kicked him out of Leeds.[^]

Capybara Posted on 14/08/2011 22:17
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oooooo, I guess I would have been fine if I hadn't been a single male, obviously travelling (a bag) and without a discernible Teesside accent. On one occasion we were playing Everton. scuzzmonster wouldn't have stood a chance.

glover_elbow Posted on 14/08/2011 22:18
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what I really object to is the filming of individuals who have committed
no offence. What happens to this film how long can it be kept by the police. surely the data protection act should provide some protection for individuals

6876 Posted on 14/08/2011 22:23
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As long as it doesn't prevent the police from carrying out their duties, they can't stop you filming in a public place in the uk.

You all have mobiles with cameras, everyone should do it.

Stop acting like sheep. Refuse to go in a pub. Refuse to pay on the bus.

Know your rights, don't break the law, video them and ask why your been denied your rights.

Barnsy Posted on 14/08/2011 22:23
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LL -

What is the matter with you?

Do you think you are being ignored?

Either contribute something useful or back off.

the_dude_abides Posted on 14/08/2011 22:25
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have you just figured out the police force is full of XXXXXXhouses

i said last week they are all bent and corrupt to XXXXXX and was shot down in flames for it

no wonder they get no respect

ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 14/08/2011 22:42
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If they tried to film or photograph me, I'd put on a big, daft, silly smile for 'em.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 14/08/2011 22:44
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Barnsy, what's up with you, I don't see you moaning at zzzz when he has the same viewpoint as myself. Dear me, there's some right whining gets on here nowadays.[rle]

Space_Face Posted on 14/08/2011 22:47
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Keeping your mouth shut doesn't make you a sheep, it's doing the sensible thing to make sure you get to see the game.

mikeyyyy Posted on 14/08/2011 22:47
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i think LL it's because he really has that opinion but you're just being a bellend thinking it's a royal joke
which it isn't.
i think you've p!ssed of a fair few people on this thread tbh

skiprat Posted on 14/08/2011 22:47
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It's pathetic that posters on here are just saying he should ignore it.

Why on Earth should any of us be stopped going about our business, or doing anything, just because we want to watch a football match. Why should we be herded into pubs, herded onto trains taking us in the opposite direction of where we want to go or anything similar?

I saw the Police in Sunderland make 2 lads pi55 themselves because they wouldn't let them leave their cordon, about 90 minutes AFTER our game there a few seasons back. How on Earth is that an acceptable way to be treat, simply for watching a game of sport?

Good luck in chasing them down Ponce, will be impossible to ID the bloke without his numbers up but you should be able to get your match ticket costs back after contact from the FSF.

Boro1997 Posted on 14/08/2011 22:48
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If the police film individuals who have committed no offence then surely thats proof they've done nothing wrong. So, they shouldn't have anything to worry about should they?!

I think the police film to protect aswell, its not all bad.


Lisbonlegend Posted on 14/08/2011 22:52
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Poor mikeyyyy[sad]

gravyboat Posted on 14/08/2011 22:55
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'Keeping your mouth shut doesn't make you a sheep, it's doing the sensible thing to make sure you get to see the game.'

Absolute rubbish.

'Don't question us, or you're not going to the match you've paid 30 quid to see'

Pathetic that people accept it so readily.

mikeyyyy Posted on 14/08/2011 22:55
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what is saying poor mikeyyy is trying to achieve? seriously i'm baffled at your use of this 'phrase'

I've asked you what it means, and thus far haven't given an answer. maybe you can answer the above question this time without making yourself like a bigger tool than you already are?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 14/08/2011 22:56
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[sad]

ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 14/08/2011 22:58
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Well, at least PP's the main talking point on here and is well on his way to a double-ton. Surely, that more than makes up for a bit of minor ill-treatment by West Yorkshire's finest.

COULBYBORO Posted on 14/08/2011 22:59
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Boro1997,are you a policeman.[:D]
Lisbon trying to point score over PP and failing badly.[:o)]

mikeyyyy Posted on 14/08/2011 23:01
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I think PP will come on here, see LLs attempt and be completely ashamed of how low LL has stooped and embarrassed himself.

Jealousy at it's worsed i'm afraid.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 14/08/2011 23:02
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I'm not failing at all, it's just interesting to see you lot slobbering over him. He was moaning about £2.50 bus fare, I'm surprised they let him off with a section 27.[:o)]

Lisbonlegend Posted on 14/08/2011 23:03
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Are you his boyfriend mikeyyyy.[:D]

ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 14/08/2011 23:05
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By whingeing about the £2.50 bus fare, he was probably just trying to fit in with the locals by being a tight-arse.

Space_Face Posted on 14/08/2011 23:05
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I doubt Ponce will be bothered considering they are mates.

mikeyyyy Posted on 14/08/2011 23:05
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Would it make you jealous if i was?[:X]

Lisbonlegend Posted on 14/08/2011 23:08
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There's your 200 Poncey.[^]

Barnsy Posted on 14/08/2011 23:16
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LL - Equal opportunities:

The right to reply.

skiprat Posted on 15/08/2011 00:03
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Although it's only £2.50, it's a bit of a pi55take forcing you onto a bus and then wanting money off you for it as well.

mikeyyyy Posted on 15/08/2011 00:48
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it doesn't make sense though

ponce obviously didn't care about the £2,50 that much as he previously asked to get a taxi, costing considerably more

degsyspesh Posted on 15/08/2011 00:59
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OK, I haven't read all of the above but I have read PP's description of what happened and to summarise:

250 boro fans were told to get on some buses.

249 did so and saw us win

1 didn't

OK, the Police are chunts to away fans - is anyone that surprised? You don't have to accept it but if you want to make sure you see the game you keep your mouth shut and go along with it. If you don't keep your mouth shut then this happens.

I'm not saying it's right - it clearly isn't but I just don't get all of this faux shock and surprise.

If he'd kept his mouth shut then he'd have seen the game just like the other 249 people did - wtf do you think is going to happen if you start arguing with coppers at an away game, especially at Leeds?

You have to make a choice - if you want to see the game you go along with the bullshoite, if you want to argue with police then be prepared to miss the match.

joeybudden Posted on 15/08/2011 01:08
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This reminds me of my coaching days at Sunderland, I was given a section 27 and wasn't allowed back in Middlesbrough - i ws in the wrong place but at the right time 4 the boro police who were amused at my order.

Red_Matter Posted on 15/08/2011 01:39
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I would pay to see LL smash PP's back door's in. That would be a sight for sore eyes but to them, it would be normal. [;)]

br14 Posted on 15/08/2011 01:58
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I'd have thought after a week of rioting, it might have been the course of wisdom to keep a low profile when faced with PC Plod.

All that pent up frustration in West Yorkshire that they had no rioters to deal with, and along you come and are the next best thing.

That's the problem when you hand people power. They're always itching to use it.

And what sort of a government would introduce such an order anyway?


Link: Section 27

Bri_Marwood Posted on 15/08/2011 04:39
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I had a similar experience with the law in Leeds a few years back but it ended up much, much worse all round. I ended up with a Section 47, a night in cells, nearly went to prison and banned from Euro 2004. I was attacked by two stewards when I was trying to act as a peacemaker for a friend so I knocked one of them out and the other one legged it, all under the noses of 6 police officers who arrested me, handcuffed me, led me away and kicked the crap out of me before taking me to Otley nick.

Kevlar Posted on 15/08/2011 06:45
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Bri - Some peace keeper! [smi]

glosboro Posted on 15/08/2011 07:10
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Did you used to work for the UN Bri? [:D]

jimmy_james Posted on 15/08/2011 07:35
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It sounds like PP annoyed the peelers by trying to chat up one of the female PCs!

PP then tried to show the peelers up for being incompetent.

The peelers saw their chance sent and PP packing.

The moral of the story is if loud drunk is trying to chat up your girlfriend use your power and ruin his day!

It is not good, not clever, but effective!

rivals_oldschool Posted on 15/08/2011 08:01
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Degsy is spot on.

You we're singled out probably because you spent the whole afternoon trying to be billy big bollox with the coppers.

They're not your mates, they're not there to be 'spot on' with or discuss morals with, or argue the toss with about going back inside a pub, no matter how 'sympathetic' they may appear to be.

None of them would have cared when you got sent packing.

You only talk to them when you absolutely have to.

jimmy_james Posted on 15/08/2011 08:28
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It is strange that many of the people who are indignant about a loud person, who has been drinking, amongst a crowd of 250 who have committed mild public order offences, being sent away from a football match are sympathetic to soldiers in Afghanistan wanting to shoot dead anyone who leaves their mud hut for a cr4p in the middle of the night!

TWoS Posted on 15/08/2011 09:29
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"I would pay to see LL smash PP's back door's in."

Why? There's quite a lot of this sort of thing available for free on the Interweb.

So I'm told like.

gravyboat Posted on 15/08/2011 09:32
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Load of shyte talked on here from the usual suspects.

Nobody is showing 'faux outrage'. The issue is that it is no surprise at all. Nobody is suggesting Ponce is a special case (well, he might be, but not in this instance), and in-fact, nobody is even arguing that if you fail to keep your mouth shut, this is likely to happen.

The issue is that we've arrived at a stage where this has become such the norm, that people just accept it with a shrug of the shoulders and a 'well, if you want to get to the match, this is what you have to do'. Bollox. Utter, utter bollox.

We should not be in a position, as football supporters, whereby we are told what our exact movements have to be at any given time, and if you question this, you're threatened with being locked-up, and a possible ban from football.

It's wrong. And when it happens to somebody 'we know', we should, as fellow supporters, make it apparent this is how we feel. It's a shame that because of who it is, it, completely unsurprisingly, gets turned into yet another oneupmanship episode, but that shouldn't let the real issue be pushed to one side.


Buddy Posted on 15/08/2011 09:39
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Often when I'm a bit busy I elect somebody to be my spokesman on this messageboard because their views fit exactly with mine. Today that person is gravyboat. [^]

Dibzzz Posted on 15/08/2011 09:45
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It's just pathetic.

Mind you, it's nowt to what I had to put up with when I went to Barnsley away in the 80's.

Coppers weren't frightened of a bit of dishing out a slap, punch, knee in the knackers or a headbut.

degsyspesh Posted on 15/08/2011 09:47
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Gravy - I didn't say that you should just accept it, what I said was if you don't accept it in a situation like that then be prepared to miss the match. Everyone has the choice.

If you're going to kick off you're better doing it after the event and complaining to the various authorities about the arrangements for the day. All the coppers want to do is get through the day with as little aggro as possible - it you argue with them at that time there is only going to be one outcome. They obviously had a strategy worked out as to how to deal with away fans and they're not going to change it on the day just because someone is moaning at them. The key point should be to get them to change their strategy for the future.

gravyboat Posted on 15/08/2011 10:01
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degsy,

Whilst I accept that 'pushing it' during the actual event is likely to only end one way, if, when it has happened, we don't make it apparent we think it is wrong, nothing will ever get done about it. Actual instances of unjustified heavy-handed policing are the basis of the wider argument.

When the police take the decision to segregate fans in an extreme manner, they put themselves in a position whereby any dissenting voice is considered some major threat to their 'operation'. It doesn't need to be like this. We know the history of trouble at football, and fans need to accept that past behavior is held against them, but times have moved on. The police are far slicker at monitoring known trouble makers now (most of them are banned now anyway), and they have enough of a presence to be able to deal with any potential trouble as it happens.

The policy of locking everyone down 'just in-case', is backward, and I would argue, counter-productive, because it winds-up normal fans who wouldn't usually even bother interacting with the police. The last thing I am interested in when travelling away is being involved in trouble. I just want to be able to have a good scoop, get to the match, and have a good sing-song. But on more than one occasion now, I've ended up being pushed around by a policeman (including on Saturday), simply because I've asked to be able to go where they don't want me to. It's barmy.


Buddy Posted on 15/08/2011 10:06
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"counter-productive, because it winds-up normal fans who wouldn't usually even bother interacting with the police"

As I believe the young people on the interweb say, THIS.

degsyspesh Posted on 15/08/2011 10:09
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gravy - I completely agree with all of that. I wasn't being critical of PP for what happened - just making the point that kicking off in those circumstances is only ever going to have one outcome.

One person getting a S27 won't make the slightest difference to WYP's matchday policy. If on the other hand all 250 fans involved wrote to the club, cleveland Police, WYP, the Gazeeet etc etc after the event then there is a far better chance that people's grievances can be addressed.

PinkPonce Posted on 15/08/2011 10:43
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There is so much to respond to that I'll never be able to do it but I just want to make a few points:

Firstly I wasn't mouthing off, gobbling off or whatever else has been stated. I merely asked a couple of questions in a polite and respectful manner as I know very well what the police can be like with football fans.

Am I not allowed to ask a question after being held for hours about whether I can get a taxi to the ground to avoid missing kick off?

Other points to note, that I didn't put in my first post yesterday was that, when we tried to move on from Yates we were stopped, we didn't tell the police we were moving on from the pub to the cross keys, we told them that we were going go a cash point and 'for a bite to eat and a cuppa'. We were told that we couldn't leave. We were basically forced into a pub, and told to stay there for 3 hours.

I don't understand how that can possibly be allowed, and at that point we didn't make any fuss whatsoever. There were other people issued with section 27s - there was 2 others on our train home in fact.

I know people are saying that you keep your head down and don't talk - perhaps there was a little naivety on my part there - however when we were stood outside of Yates and WYPO are telling us that they think it's a farce and engaging in general conversation whilst friends were having a fag etc, you can't help buy just chat back. There was no reason for me to be obnoxious to them, or to ignore them when they're talking - if anything that would have potentially created more of an atmosphere.

One of my main gripes here is the photographs. I have had friends banned through 'association' and I have seen a friends file from PC Walmsly and PC Swales.

In a lot of instances I believe that the power of suggestion is used. I.E the photo of me politely asking if I could go to a cash point or jokingly suggesting that I had to go and buy something for the Mrs from Vivienne Westwood will no doubt end up in my very own file with a statement no doubt along the lines of "Here is Mr Ponce confronting a police officer in a very aggressive manner" ... On the next page there will be pictures of scuffles which may have broken out across Leeds that I wasn't anywhere near. I have seen this before and I know if happens.

PC Swales was asked if he knows me. He said no. I said he'd have no reason to. He now has all of my details, and no doubt the file is being created this morning and he certainly will know me, all because of the fact that I politely requested at 2 seperate points whether I could use alternative means of transportation to the ground, on my own accord.

I was issued with the notice which wasn't correctly filled out, OR explained to me and I started to read it to find out what was going on. I had 15 minutes. It didn't state that I had to walk immediately without stopping. I waited to understand what had actually happened.

If I wanted to stand on one leg reciting verses from the bible for 14 minutes I am allowed to. I was then pushed persistently be the officer and threatened with arrest, for reading the notes on the piece of paper he'd just given me.

Once again, if there is CCTV footage if this instance it will be manipulated to "Here is Mr Ponce intimidation an officer and showing reistance to beig moved from a location".

It's ridiculous.

If you recall in my opening post, I said that we happily stayed in the pub in light of the fact that buses would be provided at 2pm.

Had this actually happened, there wouldn't have been any issue whatsoever. The fact is, the may have done this operation a million times and got it right, but they didn't get it right on Saturday hence my frustration.

Because if the fact that they'd got it wrong, and I was going to miss the start of an event that I'd paid for, are you honestly saying that I can't ask a question in a polite manner?

Had they got it correct, this wouldn't have happened because I wouldn't have had to stand waiting about for an hour because of imcompetancies.

The section 27 is an absolute cop out. If I'd have done something wrong, or sworn at the police I'd have been locked up. Simple as that. If I'd have been aggressive I'd have been asked to relay my details into a video camera but I wasn't. If I'd have been drunk, the same applies.

Unfortunately it appears that you now can't even ask a question to a police officer without fear of being asked to leave a city for no reason. I did nothing wrong, never one spoken out of turn and was polite.

As has been said by others, this could quite easily happen to you in the future if you simply asked a question. If I wasn't even going to the match I'd have been kept in Yates had they suspected that I was.

PP ... x

speckyget Posted on 15/08/2011 10:47
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That's all fair enough PP, but there's an elephant in the room you've yet to address.

*cough* socks *cough*

skiprat Posted on 15/08/2011 10:48
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Why are people acting like PP was the only fan this happened to? There's plenty of others above that have said they were stood abou waiting for non-existent buses which made them late for the game. Buses which they'd been stood waiting 1 HOUR for.

PinkPonce Posted on 15/08/2011 10:57
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Specky [:D] I did in fact go sockless. I had a nice little pair of All Saints shoes on which really limit the addition of socks, along with a pair of chinos which were an inch too short [^] ...

It was the 'Football hooligan Chic' look ...

PP ... x

speckyget Posted on 15/08/2011 11:01
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Suspect the reason for the lack of i/d numbers was that they were Fashion Police.

glosboro Posted on 15/08/2011 11:14
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I'd say it was more David Essex circa 1983 meets Tamer Hassan [:D]

tryasize10 Posted on 15/08/2011 11:23
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While I do have some sympathy for you Poncey lad, from reading your statement of events, it seems to me that you were give plently of oportunities to stop harassing them.

At the end of the day, rightly or wrongly, they are there to police the situation, not make sure you get to the match on time. Do you think they want to stand debating with you, or watching what is actually going on?

These situations are almost always created by the police and I imagine they can be very stressful for the bobbies. However, you sound like you were just pushing your luck and eventually he has got annoyed enough to send you packing.

What will you do next time? Put up and shut up? Not saying that it is right, but you have to just bite your tounge sometimes.

Boro1997 Posted on 15/08/2011 11:54
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So are you going to make an official complaint to Cleveland police Pink Ponce?


PinkPonce Posted on 15/08/2011 12:14
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Yes, I'll be making a complaint to West Yorkshire Police, the IPCC, FSF and copying Cleveland Police, because of the fact that PC Swales took my details down ...

Trya ... I was hardly harrassing them though, that's the thing ... I asked on a couple of occasions if I could make my own way to the ground, after previously trying to leave the pub where we were also told we couldn't leave.

Are you telling me that at 12 Noon, I can't walk somewhere to use a cash point, get some food, do a bit of shopping or whatever else it is I want to do?

They told us we couldn't go, we didn't contest it, we just went back.

I'm sorry, but if I'd have done something wrong, harrassed, swore etc etc then I'd hold my hands up and say I deserved it, but the fact is I simply did nothing at all wrong.

It's the acceptance that this is what happens, and I should have known that's annoying. Because it shouldn't be allowed to happen.

On what basis did they keep me in that pub for over 3 hours. And if alcohol is a problem, then why didn't take us straight to the ground, or to the local library so we could have a read for 3 hours.

It doesn't make sense.

PP ... x

zzzzz Posted on 15/08/2011 12:42
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And if you were allowed to wander off and go to the cash point, buy veet, get a taxi etc why wouldn't the other 250 be allowed to do the same thing?

gravyboat Posted on 15/08/2011 12:44
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Well, that's exactly the point, isn't it?

They should be allowed to.

skiprat Posted on 15/08/2011 12:44
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The other 250 should have been allowed. I think that's the point.

Why should we be holed up somewhere we don't want to be, just for going and watching a football match?

PinkPonce Posted on 15/08/2011 12:45
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Well yes, why wouldn't they? For some reason zzzzz, you're trying to make it out as though this was just me, when it wasn't ...

But why shouldn't anyone who was in Leeds be able to go and do what ever they want, at whatever time ...

If people wanted to walk to the match, why shouldn't they be allowed to walk at a certain time within a police cordon ...

If people want to use the buses, then they should be allowed to make that choice ...

If the police are controlling every aspect of peoples day like this, then they have a duty to get it right, and not ensure that there's a large group of people still waiting for a bus at 2:50, when 1 hour earlier people wanted to walk ...

PP ... x

Miklaadt Posted on 15/08/2011 12:50
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This sounds like a terrific way to get free train travel on a Saturday evening.


Voltaire Posted on 15/08/2011 12:53
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I've been on demos where the police are trying to separate rival groups and its been handled much better than this.

At Luton the police cordened off the town centre, so you could spread yourself out, do a bit of shopping, and then in ones and twos you could leave if you weren't wearing anything provocative and could go your own way. Result? Public safety secured, civil liberties only infringed in a minor way, people are comfortable and have a good day. But that was a different police force, obviously one that is a bit more flexible and forward thinking than WYP.

Barricading people in a single pub and not letting people out is an infringement on civil liberties whichever way you look at it. It has to be fought. Now this government had as its main priority a Civil Liberties agenda, and a 'Great Repeal Act'. Perhaps it is worth writing to a member of the coalition to flag-up Section 27 as a damning example of arbitrary state power, and let's see if we can add to the clamour to get the Violent Crime Act amended or repealed. As Joe Hill said, 'Don't mourn, organise!' [^]

Bobby_Braithwaite Posted on 15/08/2011 13:22
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I was in Leeds for 4 hours before the game. No problems at all but I didn't bother licking the plods rears.

I got to the game on time via a taxi and got away no problem.

But that's the way it is, keep clear of the plods, don't wear colours to places like Leeds and you don't have a problem.

But as we all know PP knows best on all matters.

He'll have to learn there are consequences sometimes of doing certain things (just like there appears to have been on Saturday).

If you believe his version of events (now that's another matter), we all know how his version of things can differ from reality.

Is this just another one of his attention seeking posts hoping to set a record.

PinkPonce Posted on 15/08/2011 13:25
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There's a bloke on here [Glosboro] who I don't know from adam, but who knows me or my face and who has validated the events as I've posted.

At the risk of repeating myself, IF i had done something wrong, they'd have arrested me.

I wasn't wearing colours - Unless Boro turned out without socks as well?

PP ... x

John67 Posted on 15/08/2011 13:45
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It's a wonder they didn't arrest you for boring them to death ya dull chunt. [:D]

PinkPonce Posted on 15/08/2011 13:55
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[:D]

PP ... x

ccole Posted on 15/08/2011 13:56
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“They are there to police the situation, not make sure you get to the match on time”[ref]


Incorrect. They are there to protect and ensure our rights as UK citizens.

Many people in that group were detained against their wishes, without breaking a law. If there were threats of violence from another party, why weren’t they detained?


The police are there to uphold the law, not enforce it.


The more people let them get away with this type of behaviour, the longer and worse they will treat football fans.[ref]


Too many sheep. As Gillandi said, in years gone by Boro fans would not have tolerated such bo11oks. If everyone had stuck together, been polite, but insisted they weren’t going to be kept in a pub, video questions been asked of officers and officers behaviour, they would have to have been more tolerant towards you, AND ACTED WITHIN THERE GIVEN AUTHORITY.

ste_north_stand Posted on 15/08/2011 14:04
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While it's annoying as XXXXXX when the coppers act like that it really is pointless arguing the toss with them. Has anyone ever known a copper turn around and say "actually, yeah you are right"? It'll never happen. While some of the things they do can boil your XXXXXX and be totally out of the order, at the end of the day if you wanna see the match (which is the main thing i would imagine) then you may aswell bite your tongue, as hard as that may be and get on with it. The points you made to the coppers sound spot on but at the end of the day it didn't changed anything and never will and you ended up missing the game and a cracking result.

PinkPonce Posted on 15/08/2011 14:11
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I still don't see what is wrong with me asking at 2:50pm if I can get a taxi to the ground because they were making me miss the game.

I wasn't arguing any point with them, I was asking a polite question. If I had been chewy and arguing with them, I'd have got locked up.

I think some people are assuming that I was being an obnoxious doyle arguing and things. I wasn't. I asked a question in a polite manner. I talked to PC Swales about it in a polite manner and he completely understood.

PP ... x

sasboro1 Posted on 15/08/2011 14:32
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you should go with bandy to away games. he gets away with chucking a beach ball at a policeman's head a couple of times[^]

Boro1997 Posted on 15/08/2011 18:37
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Is there some law that says if you get off a train with the intention of attending a football match you have to be taken to the nearest pub and kept there? I'm no expert on law but I would have said this was a breach of your human rights surely? I would definately complain about your treatment and like I said earlier whether they took cctv or not they do that to protect aswell and the camera never lies. So, if you did nothing wrong you got nothing to worry about!!

BoroPhil Posted on 15/08/2011 21:23
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If you weren't wearing colours how did you get collared in the first place? I was on the same train and just walked out of the train station.

Bill_Leather Posted on 15/08/2011 22:10
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PP - a couple of points:

1. Before you make amy complaint to the IPCC or WYP (and do one or the other, they both will go the Professional Standards Dept of WYP in Wakefield) you should identify what the basis of the complaint is eg misuse of the power - but if so in what way was the power misused - eg substantive or procedural?

2. You might want to invest a bit of time looking at the Stoke supporters case mentioned above. It shouldn't take you long to find the basis of their successful complaint, see for starters the link below. Nice payout, too!!

3. It is striking if not perverse that the police herd people to a pub, forcing them to stay there and then use a power against them that is linked directly to the circumstances they wish to impose - 'alcohol related disorder was likely me' Lord since Poncey here had been stood in a pub for four hours'). Not entrapment, but not too far away from it in spirit, some might argue.

4. Citizen's Advice Bureau will help you put the complaint together and submit it for you if you want some assistance.

Go out and get'em boy!

Bill_Leather Posted on 15/08/2011 22:12
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Sos, mate. Here's the link.


Link: Stoke case

degsyspesh Posted on 15/08/2011 22:21
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For me, if you are going to complain then it should focus on the way that all 250 people were treated rather than receiving a S27 which the police will just defend (rightly or wrongly) by saying that you were being a mouthy cnut.

It would be far more effective if you could get some of the other 249 people to also complain about their treatment on the day. Petition needed!!![^]

coluka Posted on 15/08/2011 22:24
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I hear Lisbon returned a Policeman's outfit to the fancy dress shop earlier today

zzzzz Posted on 16/08/2011 07:26
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skiprat and ponce.

Can't you see that controlling large groups of supporters is the primary way to reduce the scourge of the thugs on matchday?

If you went to a rugby game you wouldn't have the same chew.

It happens every Saturday, the supporters freedom to conduct himself in a normal way is denied by legislation introduced to reduce the possibility of the madness of the late 70's and 80's.

Unfortunately all part and parcel of being a supporter.

That's why you were kept in one place, and will be again if you travel in large groups.

Don't waste your time on another monstrous letter. Not only will it continue to congeal this board up with more Ponce sewage it'll also end up in the bin. [^]

PinkPonce Posted on 16/08/2011 09:54
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Bill Leather - Thanks so much for your help there - Really appreciate it ...

zzzzz - I think that's the point people are trying to make, and the point that you're continuinely missing because you just want to maintain the stance against me, that you've made for the past 5 years on here when you posted as The Throcking Man ...

Everyone knows it happens all of the time, but it shouldn't be allowed ...

Even more so, it shouldn't be allowed to fail as it did on Saturday in that there was 100 fans waiting around at 2:50 for buses which were supposed to come an age earlier ...

Regardless of whether it happens all of the time, why should we be afraid that asking a question in a respectable manner could lead to you being asked to leave a city within 15 minutes notice?

I'll put my life on the fact that had this happened to you, or someone you know, and not me, you'd be on here claiming how ridiculous it was.

PP ... x

gravyboat Posted on 16/08/2011 10:03
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zzzzz,

Absolute load of nonsense.


sasboro1 Posted on 16/08/2011 10:05
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went to preston a couple of seasons ago. got rounded up at the station. well they said it was up to us but they had free buses lined up and said they had a big pub sorted for the boro fans. had a chat with the police and it was all in good humour. no tension in the air. then they bused us to the ground and then back to the station after.

the police must have been expecting trouble on saturday and on edge. our nearest away game and the old nutters have been coming out for these sort of games over the last few seasons. seems they had a no nonsense approach to this game. looked plenty of police on duty for 25,000

zzzzz Posted on 16/08/2011 11:02
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"The Throcking Man" eh? Impossible I know but get over yourself. I'm not 'against you'. I just find the way you conduct yourself on here mostly to be childish.

I'm not missing any point.... I'm just explaining to you that you have fk all to complain about or be surprised about other than the fact that the buses were late. Planes are late, trains are late etc etc big deal.

Because it's you you think you should be treated differently from the norm. I suggest that in this case because it's you you were given your marching orders.

Look, you have a straight choice. Don't travel with the numbers and you'll have the freedom to go where you want. I'm not necessarily saying that this is right but that's just the way it is.

Carry on making a spectacle of yourself in front of an audience and you'll be made a special case which is exactly what happened.

A real shame coz as a genuine football supporter, which is what you are, your name will now flash up in lights whenever you try and buy a ticket and you'll now be on the database.


zzzzz Posted on 16/08/2011 11:05
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What don't you agree with gravyboat?

PinkPonce Posted on 16/08/2011 11:26
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'A real shame coz as a genuine football supporter, which is what you are, your name will now flash up in lights whenever you try and buy a ticket and you'll now be on the database'

[:D]

PP ... x

gravyboat Posted on 16/08/2011 11:39
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'Unfortunately all part and parcel of being a supporter.'

The blind acceptance of this.

It's not the 70's and 80's anymore.

PinkPonce Posted on 16/08/2011 11:45
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The amount of people who seem to just want to accept that you can't go and do what you want because you're a football fan has shocked me ... As Gravy says - The Blind Acceptance ...

You seem to have got it into your head that I was being mouthy, and aggressive and making a show in front of people or whatever it is you posted - This is not true ... I asked a polite question. I showed no aggression, I wasn't mouthy and so on and so forth ...

This is what you have to understand - If I HAD been like that, I WOULD have been arrested and I WOULD have had to talk into the Video Camera to state my details ...

Why should this just be accepted because 'it happens'?

Instead of having 50 police officers, countless horses and people filming innocent fans standing outside a pub, why not spread these along the route to the ground, keeping an eye on proceedings so that people can make their own way to the ground as and when they want?

PP ... x

gerd_muller Posted on 16/08/2011 11:46
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has this been done to death now?

PinkPonce Posted on 16/08/2011 11:49
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For someone who doesn't appear to like me, Gerd, you still seem to take a keen interest in anything I've posted? ...

I've contributed a handful of times to a thread with over 200 replies ... Perhaps if you read it, you might actually have something meaningful to add to the debate and see that it's not the usual self indulgent arse gravy that I normally post ... Then again, you might be better of starting a thread more on your level - perhaps about Cbeebies, or Rosie and Jim.

PP ... x

gerd_muller Posted on 16/08/2011 11:50
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im just sick of hearing about it, as if its the only thing going on in the world

zzzzz Posted on 16/08/2011 11:51
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Because it never worked then Ponce and it wouldn't work now. The police use containment of large numbers now.

gravy, OK what have YOU done about it?

And Ponce....


Link: You'll be on the list

PinkPonce Posted on 16/08/2011 11:53
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'im just sick of hearing about it, as if its the only thing going on in the world'

It's one phucking thread in amongst pages and pages of arse gravy. You do no thave to open it.

I can't contemplate how someone can get so wound up by seeing a username or a thread on a messageboard.

Start your own thread, and engage with people if it means so much to you, rather than wasting your time getting emotional over something which shouldn't even register in your mind.

PP ... x

gerd_muller Posted on 16/08/2011 11:56
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emotional? i dont think so, no

PinkPonce Posted on 16/08/2011 11:57
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Why are you still even clicking on the thread if you're sick of seeing it?

PP ... x

gravyboat Posted on 16/08/2011 11:59
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zzzzz,

I haven't experienced anything like an S27. I have, however, been forced by the police into an area and kept there against my will, and been pushed around for the privilege. Perhaps, in hindsight, I should have taken that further.

However, if I had experienced what Ponce did on Saturday, I would undoubtedly be taking it further. Your response of 'tough, that's just the way it is' will ensure nothing ever changes.

gerd_muller Posted on 16/08/2011 12:00
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i appreciate the irony of my own replies keeping it at the top

however, it seems every time i open fmttm this or something else involving you is prevalent in about 10 titles.

not having a go personally as i dont know you but some of these threads go on and on

PinkPonce Posted on 16/08/2011 12:09
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Gerd, it seems you are having a go though ... I can't help it if people post threads for my attention can I ...

I also can't help it if I post something which people find interesting enough to discuss in detail until it has over 200 replies ...

This is not about veeting my arse crack, or getting my eyebrows waxed - It's people debating something which they obviously feel aggrieved about in the main ...

Again, I can't help people starting threads about me can I, but you really don't have to open them ...

PP ... x

MightyDuck Posted on 16/08/2011 12:12
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PP stick to your guns. if enough people put cases against the Police, they'll have to rethink the way they police football.

happened to me a few years ago at Sunderland. one of my best mates has a season ticket there and we arranged to meet up before the game. the trains from teesside to sunderland were all under police escort and everyone was to be taken straight to the ground. had to get the train to Durham where my mate picked me up. When we came out of the ground, we werent allowed to leave a police escort direct to the train station and we were shoved on the train. i'd wanted to meet up with my mate, go to sunderland then onto durham for the evening.

its an absolute sham

woodymfc Posted on 16/08/2011 12:18
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I hear Lisbon returned a Policeman's outfit to the fancy dress shop earlier today [:D]

This whole post has now become a joke and if you do persue this with the Police Ponce, don't expect anything more than a lecture in a way of a reply - If you get one ?

sasboro1 Posted on 16/08/2011 12:20
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who's the the police ponce? a relative of pink ponce?

woodymfc Posted on 16/08/2011 12:23
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Poncey Police sas

All the XXXXXXin same to me those boys in blue apart from our very own Tim Swales [^]

ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 16/08/2011 12:27
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It's wrong that you can't ask a policeman a polite question. It's not right that football fans are treated in this way, but unfortunately, it's probably due to the minority spoiling it for the minority. If it's the only way the police can prevent trouble at matches, the temporary loss of a few liberties is the price that we have to pay. It's not right, but do people have any better suggestions?

It does seem that the running of the buses to the ground could have been a lot better organised. It seems to me, the disorganisation didn't help the situation and could have been a recipe for trouble.

Maybe the lesson is to begrudgingly accept it at the time (as difficult as that may seem) but to take things up with the powers that be afterwards.

Brick_Tamland Posted on 16/08/2011 12:30
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Theresa May has made an official statement on the matter.


Link: link

COULBYBORO Posted on 16/08/2011 12:42
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It woudn't have happened if me and me crew had been there,[FACT].[B)]

Voltaire Posted on 16/08/2011 12:46
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"If it's the only way the police can prevent trouble at matches, the temporary loss of a few liberties is the price that we have to pay."

But that's the point - it isn't. As I said further up, I've been on political protests where the danger of groups coming together was much more lethal and would have caused much more violence, due to the nature of one of the groups in question. Yet a different police force managed to ensure that both sets of protestors were comfortable, could leave when they wanted, could buy food/drink, whatever. After seeing that, WYP's 'lock 'em in Yates's' tactics seem primitive and from a different era. They don't have to do it - they choose to.

Maybe its because the protest involved MPs, councillors and other important, middle class people that the police didn't think they could treat them like animals and get away with it?

ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 16/08/2011 13:01
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As I said, I don't agree necessarily agree with it. If supporters like PP tell the FSF, maybe they can put pressure on the powers that be to find a more acceptable solution to policing games. This sort of thing only seems to have come into being in recent years. During the 90s, I can remember thinking that police seemed to have things down to a fine art when it came to football matches, i.e. where to be, who to look out for, what to look out for etc, and I don't recall my basic civil liberties being infringed.

PinkPonce Posted on 16/08/2011 15:33
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I've just had a really good conversation with Amanda from the FSF about this. If anyone else (i.e Gravyboat) would like to get in touch with her regarding the heavy handed treatment of the fans on the way to the station etc then she'd love to here from you.

PP ... x

Robsons_left_boot Posted on 16/08/2011 15:54
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why go to local pubs in leeds and expect anything else?

PinkPonce Posted on 16/08/2011 16:46
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Possibly because the match was in Leeds, Robsons?

PP ... x

mikeyyyy Posted on 16/08/2011 16:50
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can we just clarify who on this thread accepts this treatment and who is against-

i'm interested to see where the majority lies

Kevlar Posted on 16/08/2011 17:00
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Police mistreatment, Against.

Lads going sockless, Against.

The_FSF Posted on 16/08/2011 17:02
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A very interesting thread that I've just read through.

Firstly, thanks to all those who recommended that Pink Ponce get in touch with the FSF. Great to see our name out there and metioned. If you're not already a member, please do join up! www.fsf.org.uk

Secondly, it is ALWAYS worth challenging police treatment that you're not happy with or if you suspect isn't lawful. One poster said we'd lost loads of cases. That simply isn't true!

I work full time for the FSF and am more than happy to explain the complaints procedure, help with drafting letters that I get checked by a solicitor who specialises in complaints against the police.

If anybody has any concerns about policing in Leeds or at any other fixture please do get in touch.

amanda.jacks@fsf.org.uk

Emmersons_BrazillianDong Posted on 16/08/2011 17:17
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Hi Amanda,

Before you do go ahead with the case it might be worth checking the legislation again to ensure there is nothing that may exonerate the police because of the 'Sockless' situation.

I'd hate for the police to get away with this injustice on a technicality.

PinkPonce Posted on 16/08/2011 17:20
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[:D] I did forget to mention that I wasn't wearing any socks - I'll put it in my letter though [^]

PP ... x

The_FSF Posted on 16/08/2011 17:30
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Thanks for the advice and the less I know about the missing socks and why they may be missing the better!!

gravyboat Posted on 16/08/2011 17:32
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Not so much 'missing', rather 'surplus to requirements'.

In Ponce's head, anyway.

I'll try and drop you a mail tonight, Amanda.


bblf Posted on 16/08/2011 17:36
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Ive been going to away games for over 40 yrs. Never spoke to a Policeman. Never been coralled in a pub. Just go to the place , go to whatever pub you want and go to the match. Its easy.
Why you would enter into a debate with the Police is beyond me. You can't win. Ive seen many a person with a few beers in them think they can sort situations out. They won't listen and will do whatever they have been ordered to do.

Emmersons_BrazillianDong Posted on 16/08/2011 17:44
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The devil is in the detail Ponce [^]

PinkPonce Posted on 07/09/2011 16:04
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Just had an email from my local MP (Tom Blenkinsop) who was copied into the letter prepared by myself and Amanda [^] ...

He attached his own letter written to the Chief Constable of WYP requesting a full investigation and response to my letter [ref]

PP ... x

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 07/09/2011 17:19
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Well done PP, Tom Blenkinsop and the FSF.

If the police can't responsibly use the powers granted to them, those powers should be removed.

birkbeck_dj Posted on 07/09/2011 17:23
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"Just had an email from my local MP (Tom Blenkinsop)"

Thank God your MP isn't Bell.

PinkPonce Posted on 07/09/2011 17:30
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Cheers Corcaigh [^]

PP ... x

Pauluka Posted on 07/09/2011 18:02
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Ponce, copy and paste the letter up. Would be interested to read it

Emmersons_BrazillianDong Posted on 07/09/2011 18:12
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Best of luck with this Ponce. Hate it when people just take shyte because it's a hassle to do something.

Fair play on the FSF. Like Paul said it would be interesting to see the content.

PinkPonce Posted on 07/09/2011 18:39
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Dear Sir Norman,

Constituent: Name and Address

I have been contacted by Poncey regarding a complaint he has made to you in writing (and which he has copied to me) regarding incidents which affected him as a travelling away supporter of Middlesbrough Football Club at the match with Leeds United on Saturday 13 August 2011.

I note the specific points he made about police behaviour and tactics on that day and would hope that his complaint and comments will be fully investigated by your force and, if needed, by your professional standards unit.

With all best wishes.

Yours sincerely,

Tom Blenkinsop MP

[^]

Nice to have a little bit of backing.

PP ... x

Pauluka Posted on 07/09/2011 18:49
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No, your letter

PinkPonce Posted on 07/09/2011 18:51
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Oh, I'll try and dig it out from the email back from Amanda at the FSF ...

PP ... x

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 07/09/2011 19:14
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"Nice to have a little bit of backing"

Dont get too excited, MP's give their 'support' to just about every complaint they receive.

slipshod Posted on 07/09/2011 19:19
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To Mr Blenkinsop MP

Regarding your letter, could you please tell your sockless constituent to XXXXXX off and if he ever sets foot in Leeds again i will personally flog the chunt.

Yours Sir Norman

PinkPonce Posted on 07/09/2011 19:26
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Slips [:D]

PP ... x

jimmy_james Posted on 07/09/2011 20:14
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If you did not wear socks in Leeds you only have yourself to blame, especially when one brings attention to ones self by being controversial with the peelers.

I say flog him, I was caned many times for doing far less in the provinces!

BillBones Posted on 07/09/2011 20:36
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He's a good lad is Blenkinsop. A Boro season ticket holder too.

COULBYBORO Posted on 07/09/2011 20:47
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Keep this goig PP,I'd like to see the outcome.shame on those who say you should put up and shut up.[V]
If you need any back up from me and me crew,do a F.A.O.[^]

PinkPonce Posted on 08/09/2011 09:58
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Cheers Coulby [^]

Probably give the police another 2 weeks or so to reply, before we might have to chase it up ...

PP ... x

ollydog Posted on 08/09/2011 11:11
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would like to say shocking behavior,but not shocked at all.hope yourself,fsf and all involved get letters off to sky FA PREM championship and sponsors.all this money in football comes from the fact you can sell stuff off the back of it.once that poncey image of driving off in a ford with two tickets is threatened things might change.the golden rule those with the gold make the rules.enough letters and some tele journo will have a scandal story.sponsors dont like that kind of thing

zzzzz Posted on 08/09/2011 12:38
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No doubt the letter will be filed in the 'fruitcake' in tray with the missing cats and UFO sightings.

As if they don't have enough real policing to do FFS. [rle]

PinkPonce Posted on 08/09/2011 12:51
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Poor ZZZZZ [sad]

PP ... x

PinkPonce Posted on 15/09/2011 08:30
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'No doubt the letter will be filed in the 'fruitcake' in tray with the missing cats and UFO sightings'

Just had the first response from West Yorkshire Police:

Letter 1 Dated 9th September:

A member of the Chief Constables office will be in touch at the earliest opportunity, and they have forwarded the letter to the professional standards department.

[^]

PP ... x

PinkPonce Posted on 15/09/2011 16:35
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2nd Letter from West Yorkshire Police received:


Letter 2 Dated 12th September:

The letter has now also been forwarded to the Divisional Commander who has overall responsibility for the operational policing at Elland Road in order to ensure an informed response regarding some of the queries raised in my letter.

[^]

PP ... x

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 15/09/2011 18:04
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Don't get too excited, I'm guessing that's the standard response to a complaint that will eventually be placed in the file marked B1N

zzzzz Posted on 15/09/2011 20:13
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Standard reply PP.

It usually satisfies most of the fruitcakes if they think their silly letter has been elevated.

Looks like it's worked again. [^]

atkingson Posted on 15/09/2011 20:17
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313 replies to this horse manure [cr]







BillBones Posted on 15/09/2011 20:20
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312 replies. The original post isn't a 'reply', you buffoon.

313 now...

MKredleaderOne Posted on 15/09/2011 20:21
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atkingson finally makes a sensible comment

PinkPonce Posted on 28/09/2011 09:59
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Hope you're all well ...

4th Letter from West Yorkshire Police Received and now 1st letter from Cleveland Police received in response to my initial letter which I have today responded to on advice from the FSF.

Interestingly, Amanda Jacks from the Football Supporters Federation has stated that 'This is the fastest EVER reply from any police force to any supporter' they've ever dealt with which suggests that they're panicking a little.

There's also a nice little bit of contradictory info flying around, which is all going up the sleeve at the moment.

Will keep anyone who's interested updated. If you're not, I'll expect you to still comment anyway because you can't resist.

All the best.

PP ... x

oooooo Posted on 28/09/2011 10:15
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"which suggests that they're panicking a little"

Totally [;)]

ccole Posted on 28/09/2011 10:30
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Good luck and keep us informed Ponce.



boro-is-in-my-blood Posted on 28/09/2011 10:46
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Good luck pp,if more people were like you football fans would not get treated like scum.

PinkPonce Posted on 28/09/2011 10:56
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Thanks folks [^]

PP ... x

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 28/09/2011 11:15
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"Will keep anyone who's interested updated. If you're not, I'll expect you to still comment anyway because you can't resist."

[:D]

PinkPonce Posted on 28/09/2011 12:14
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[:D][^]

PP ... x

speckyget Posted on 28/09/2011 12:16
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Whose heart could be so stony as to be indifferent to 'the fastest EVER reply from any police force to any supporter'?

That ranks alongside 'the loudest run out in Football' in the pantheon of Boro achievements.

PinkPonce Posted on 28/09/2011 12:18
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Wind your neck in Specky, you boring chunt [^]

PP ... x

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 28/09/2011 12:19
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specky - [:D]

speckyget Posted on 28/09/2011 12:21
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Well, charming. Go and put some socks on you nut and bolt counting bogan.

PinkPonce Posted on 28/09/2011 12:25
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I'll put some socks on the day you actually have an opinion on a subject on this messageboard, rather than a quip ...

PP ... x

speckyget Posted on 28/09/2011 12:53
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No you won't Pinkers. Once you get the feel of sunshine on a bony white ankle, there's no going back.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 28/09/2011 13:01
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"Once you get the feel of sunshine on a bony white ankle, there's no going back."

[:D]

PinkPonce Posted on 28/09/2011 13:11
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Don't worry about my boney white ankles specky - you just keep making note of the amount of [:D]'s you can get each day ...

PP ... x

ToTheMoon Posted on 28/09/2011 13:26
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Good luck ponce im sure most fans are with you. Changes need to be made

zzzzz Posted on 28/09/2011 13:31
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'the fastest EVER reply from any police force to any supporter'

Brilliant. [:D][:D][:D]

Ponce, they're ripping the p1ss out of yer.

[^]

Anybody4abeer Posted on 28/09/2011 13:35
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What did the replys say?

PinkPonce Posted on 28/09/2011 13:36
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Course they are zzzzz ... The amount of letters I've had would suggest otherwise ...

You said I'd not get a reply earlier in the thread [:D] I've had 5 so far ...

That statement is to the FSF Solicitor BTW, not to me - I was just privy to the email [^]

PP ... x

PinkPonce Posted on 28/09/2011 13:37
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AB4AB - I'll post them all once this is resolved ...

The next one to Cleveland is particularly interesting [^]

PP ... x

oooooo Posted on 28/09/2011 13:54
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You don't half let SpeckyG wind you up.

Capybara Posted on 28/09/2011 13:56
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[:D]

The_same_as_before Posted on 28/09/2011 14:04
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It was a lot easier and more cost effective when the bobby gave you a slap and that was it.

You need to grow a pair.

Cleveleyssmoggie Posted on 28/09/2011 15:23
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Link


Link: LInk

PinkPonce Posted on 28/09/2011 15:43
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TSAB - Are you just suggesting that I don't complain about my ill treatment, and just let this behaviour continue every week at football grounds across the country?

PP ... x

PinkPonce Posted on 29/09/2011 10:21
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*Update 28/09/2011.

Letter sent to Cleveland Police asking a series of questions relating to the events of the 13th August, some contradictions, and requesting clarification of why details are being retained and for what purpose. Also requesting a copy of the Information Sharing Agreement between CP and MFC.

PP ... x

The_same_as_before Posted on 29/09/2011 11:25
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This must now of cost £thousands and wasted a lot of time.

Just take it on the chin, we all have bad days.

If this is as bad as it gets for you, your a very lucky lad.

PinkPonce Posted on 29/09/2011 12:01
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What a depressing attitude blot.

I couldn't care less how many thousands it's currently cost the police, hopefully the more it costs, the less instances like this will happen and potentially spare you and other normal fans at future games.

It's not wasted my time that's for sure. In fact, its wire nice to polish up my letter writing skills - especially the one that's landing on Clevelad Polices this week.

It's got weeks to run yet.

PP ... x

The_same_as_before Posted on 29/09/2011 12:10
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OK, I just could not be bothered. Seems a very petty issue to get so wound up over.

PinkPonce Posted on 29/09/2011 12:19
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Petty?

Well I'm hardly wound up about it now. I'm enjoying all the too-ing and frow-ing that both constabularys are having to do ...

I don't think it's a petty issue in the slightest ... And I'd hazard a guess that had it happened to you, you'd be thinking the same ...

I appreciate that people on here think I'm a daft chunt, and don't particularly like me, however, had it happened to someone like you, specky, buddy etc there'd be demonstrations outside the town hall and online petitions galore ...

As I said earlier, even if you're not interested in this, you'll still comment cos you can't resist ... There's plenty who are though, and who want to be kept updated on what's going on, which is the reason why I'll keep this going with updates ...

PP ... x

PinkPonce Posted on 29/09/2011 13:08
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*Update 29/09/2011.

On advice from the IPCC and FSF, it has today escalated to the IPCC as an official complaint, due to the fact that West Yorkshire Police have not reported it, and are dealing with it as a central issue.

PP ... x

Bobby_Braithwaite Posted on 29/09/2011 13:23
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What's the betting that the Poncemobile will be getting tugged on a regular basis from now on?

PinkPonce Posted on 29/09/2011 13:25
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[:D]

Swales will have my cards marked that's for sure ... Hence why this particular chain of letters between the two of us is so interesting ...

I'll post the letters once all of this is resolved - although that may take some time ...

PP ... x

The_same_as_before Posted on 29/09/2011 13:29
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Why on earth should I have an opinion on you good or bad? I simply do not understand why you want to waste everyones time. As for not going through that sort of thing, ask the blokes on here over 40 what carp we went through at every away game. We put up with it and got on.

Good luck with it.

PinkPonce Posted on 29/09/2011 13:38
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Why is it a waste of time? If you'd read the thread you'd understand why I was persuing it?

I understand what you went through years ago. You went to the pub, got pished, walked to the ground, and got a bat or either an away fan or a bobby if you set your lip up.

I should have been afforded the same opportunity without fear of being told to leave a city for doing nothing at all wrong.

That said, thanks for your good luck wish.

PP ... x

Emmersons_BrazillianDong Posted on 29/09/2011 14:20
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God luck with it ponce [^]

oooooo Posted on 29/09/2011 14:35
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"On advice from the IPCC and FSF, it has today escalated to the IPCC as an official complaint, due to the fact that West Yorkshire Police have not reported it, and are dealing with it as a central issue."

Can you tell me a bit about this? What exactly has not been reported? Your complaint to WYP or the actual sec. 27?

Is your complaint with Cleveland Police also? Or is it more a case of copying them in?

I'm glad you are following it up. They know there is *XXXXXX* all you can do at the time, in the pub, so abuse that by just XXXXXXing people off. They hope you won't follow it up, that's exactly what they want you to do.

ccole Posted on 29/09/2011 14:46
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Spot on Poncey and Keep it going. Not enough football fans object to the treatment we get from the Police.[ref] Some people deserve it, but I don’t think you’re noted for been Frontline member.


Cleveland Police knew that. They had four offices there at £90 p/h each to the public purse who are supposed to know who the trouble makers are.[:o)] The reason why the done you was probably because you were asking questions around your freedom and rights that they had no answers too because they act ABOVE the law.


I can’t wait to read the letters from all those involved.


BTW - Can you start a new thread on the issue because it’s a pain in the backside to open this on my phone?


vuvuzelas Posted on 29/09/2011 14:50
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I'm a Police Firearms Officer and have been for a good few years now. I dont work for Cleveland Police (or WYP) but live in this area. I'm very proud of what I do for a living and know that the vast majority of the lads and lasses I work with are decent people who do what they do and put up with the **** for the right reasons.

There's obviously two sides to every story but if your story bares ant resemblances of what happened that day then I feel very sorry for you and the way that you where treated that day pp.

tryasize10 Posted on 29/09/2011 14:50
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To be fair PP well done on your persistence on this. It is good to know that the FSF is right behind you.

Out of interest, have you been charged with anything, have you now got a criminal record and what are you aiming to achieve?

mikeyyyy Posted on 29/09/2011 14:53
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jeez this thread still running.

PinkPonce Posted on 29/09/2011 15:25
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Hello ...

Firstly to oooooo:

'Can you tell me a bit about this? What exactly has not been reported? Your complaint to WYP or the actual sec. 27?'

Basically, WYP have not escalated this case in line with the Police Reform Act 2002 - They are trying to only deal with it as an internal WYP issue, recording it centrally through WYP headquarters. It is not yet known whether the S27 has been fully reported yet, and this was part of my first letter, due to discrepancies on the form compared to the guidelines presented by the home office. It's part of the reason that so far there's been 4 letters back and forth from WYP.

They also initially tried to claim it as a 'Quality of Service' issue (because they don't have to report these to the IPCC) hence, the escalation to the IPCC specifies that this is a bigger issue and is mainly regarding Police Actions, and my specific treatment on that day.

'Is your complaint with Cleveland Police also? Or is it more a case of copying them in?'

Initially I copied Cleveland in on the letter, because their Football Intelligence officer was in attendance - as mentioned in the opening thread, and he took my details down. By copying him the letter I requested confirmation that all details had been deleted from his records due to the fact that no crime had been comitted. His first response is completely unsatisfactory, claiming that my details are retained for a 'policing purpose'. My follow up letter requests further clarification on the following:

What 'Policing Pupose' for Cleveland Police, given that it was claimed to be (a) outside of his jurisdiction and (b) no crime was comitted.

What policing purpose does the retaining of my information serve, if they have been moved from his personal issue notebook into any electronic storage or other storage facilty for football intellegence OR any other matter and finally if they have been shared with Middlesbrough football club (as is normal procedure). If yes to the latter I want a copy of the sharing agreement between CP and MFC.

If I get a less than satisfactory response to this letter, then this also will be escalated to the IPCC who have been more than helpful.

My reasons for following this up with CP also is because I want definitive answers on what they need to use my information for. Having seen previous Banning Order files, I am aware that the most innocent photo of a football fan can be used to insinuate a confrontation, or aggression etc. By following this up with CP as well as WYP means that, once this is resolved once and for all, the events at Leeds won't be able to be used against me in future in relation to football banning orders etc etc.

Thanks for that anyway ooooo [^]

Tyra - I haven't been charged with anything no, and the S27 doesn't leave you with a criminal record as such. But any security checks in future and this will likely show on my records, despite the fact that I've done nothing wrong. This will possibly cause me problems, and form filling in day to day life for things like my job etc.

The whole purpose of this has gone from just wanting to have my name cleared etc and the paragraph above regarding banning orders etc, to simply starting to enjoy seeing people have to respond and put time and effort into this. Letters dropping through my door left right and centre, and people having to respond to various arguments about civil rights etc means that, if I stops them giving another innocent fan a S27 in the future because they think twice on the basis that they too might cause them to produce a shed load of paperwork, then it's all worth it.

I've had considerable support from Tom Blenkinsop (My MP) and Amanda at the FSF has been unbelievable in her support and advice and we are hopefully getting somewhere now.

As mentioned earlier in the thread (to the amusement of others) they have stated between an email between the FSF and their Solicitor that this is the fastest a police force has ever responded to a supporter they've dealt with. That gives me some encouragement that it's worthwhile, and also that the initial 5 page letter has hopefully ruffled a few feathers.

Thanks again [^]

jimmy_james Posted on 29/09/2011 16:13
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

"There is a medieval menace about the birch.

Certainly its use today seems wrong, a relic from the brutal days of violent flogging.

But do young thugs who attack people with bottles and kick them when they fall to the ground, deserve anything better?

The four 19-year-old Glasgow youths who were given nine strokes of the birch on the Isle of Man are revealed as babbling cowards.

Miserable little bullies who profess themselves shocked at being birched -- although one of their victims had his jaw broken.

Revealing
As they stood in the police cell with their trousers off I wonder if they thought about violence, of how frightened innocent holidaymakers were when they started their brutal little battle?

What I find particularly revealing is the shrill, whining and completely nauseating remarks they made after being birched.

James McKell, of 46 Cathay Street, Milton, was quoted as saying he could hardly believe he was in the 20th century!

"The pain was fantastic -- I kept screaming for my parents."

What a punk! Ready to dish out trouble as part of a gang but unable to take a caning.

Joseph McKay, 79 Grove Street, Cowcaddens, shook like a leaf. His quote: "I just screamed and screamed."

What a bold, swaggering hero. Perhaps he really does believe that kicking people is more civilised than birching.

Unbelieving
William Keenan, 6 Burnside Street, Cowcaddens, was petrified. He could hardly believe it was happening to him.

How pleasant that it was. How sweet that an innocent holidaymaker was not suffering.

Then there is William Connelly, 135 West Graham Street, Garnethill, who protested: "I'm on holiday. I'm not a criminal."

It was in 1960 that the birching law on the Isle of Man was changed. Up till then it could only be used for people up to the age of 15.

The promoter of the extended birch law, war-blinded barrister Mr Howard Simcocks, says:

"The root of the trouble is that teenagers from big cities like Glasgow have too much money to spend and too little discipline within themselves."

In Glasgow last year the number of serious assaults rose to 587 -- 116 more than in 1963.

Bailie Maurice Shinwell, senior magistrate in Glasgow, told me:

"There are times when cases of this kind make you so angry one almost feels tempted to teach them a lesson by giving them a good spanking.

What annoys me is that more consideration is not given to the people hounded and hurt by hooligans.

Of course, birching in this country has long been banned and their is little likelihood of it coming back.

But imposing fines does not seem to be a deterrent. [...]

In Glasgow we have more than our share of these hooligans. There should be must less pandering to them. [...] Anyway, if they go to other places they must respect the law -- and be prepared for its use.

If they had behaved like decent citizens they would not have been birched."

That, of course, is the point -- "behaving like decent citizens.""[Sic]


PinkPonce Posted on 29/09/2011 16:37
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

[rle]

PP ... x

ccole Posted on 29/09/2011 16:44
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Jimmy,


To suggest that Police officers who missuse the tools that are given to them (namely the Law) to protect innocent people going about their day to day business should be birched seems a little harsh to me.


MightyDuck Posted on 29/09/2011 17:00
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

good luck with this. the way we were treated at sunlun a few years ago was a disgrace and hopefully this will help

jimmy_james Posted on 29/09/2011 17:04
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

But this is two upright police forces who would seem to think that he is a trouble maker.

Issue Estoppel

"The inherent power which any court of justice must possess to prevent misuse of its procedure in a way which, although not inconsistent with the literal application of its procedural rules, would nevertheless be manifestly unfair to a party to litigation before it, or would otherwise bring the administration of justice into disrepute among right-thinking people" [Sic]






Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 29/09/2011 17:31
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Fair play with your persistence PP (you've obviously got more spare time than I have), but I'm not sure what you want to scheme from this and whatever it is I think you are going to be disappointed?

PinkPonce Posted on 29/09/2011 17:33
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

'But this is two upright police forces who would seem to think that he is a trouble maker'

Have you actually read any of this thread to understand exactly what happened?

They don't think I'm a trouble maker. That's the point here.

Fücks sake. I'm dealing with dïckheads every way I turn on here ...

PP ... x

Jeremy_Clarkson Posted on 29/09/2011 17:36
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Yawns....[rle]

Me me me me me me me me me me me [V]

PP Shiite patter Oooooh mememememememememememe look at memememememememememememmememe

Regards
JC [:X]

Muttley Posted on 29/09/2011 17:40
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Not like me to encourage you Poncey (but I'm about to). As for what he can hope to achieve by this he has ALREADY achieved, he has made the Police answer for their actions. If enough people took the time to call them to account when draconian measures are visited upon someone for simply having the temerity to attend a football match we might just see fairer treatment.

They're not going to suddenly announce "sorry Ponce Lad, here's a ticket to Elland Road and free travel for next year with our compliments" and nor are they likely to be forthcoming with compensation. But making them jump through the hoops costs them money. Money that should be spent on crime.

Real crime not some dandy in flip flops. [;)]

GOPPL.

PinkPonce Posted on 29/09/2011 17:41
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Jonny - I've posted in the earlier, larger post exactly what I'm trying to gain from it, and honest, after the first few weeks of dealing with this, the FSF, and the letters I genuinely don't think I'll be disappointed. There's too much going on. I know that will be hard to understand without knowing all of the facts but the letters, the quickness of their response, the fact that my MP is in regular contact with me among other stuff really fills me with a good feeling. It could well be a long drawn out battle, l but I'm excited about it, and actually enjoying doing this. The letters ask serious questions on a number of issues, and do not allow for it to be brushed under the carpet. For that I have to thank Amanda at the FSF for her assistance in adding in notes about breaching of this act, and all of that kind of stuff. I have no doubt that the first full reply from WYP will be less than satisfactory but we're prepared for that (as it happens every time). It's the period following that's gonna get interesting.

As for the time, it helps pass those nights in London. It takes nothing to write a letter really, it's just being bothered to do something in the first place.

[^]

PP ... x

PinkPonce Posted on 29/09/2011 17:51
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Jeremy - wind your neck in you silly little ugly chunt ... Stop clinging onto my coattails to try and get noticed on hear ... If your contribution to the board consisted of more than posting 500 [:D] a day laughing at your own shïte threads you might be able to let go of me ... Stick to licking Bananaramas arses on twitter you deluded clown ...

Mutely, exactly right ... In a sense I feel quite good at the fact that so many letters have already flooded in from them ... To date I have sent only one, with a further one to Cleveland Police tonight / tomorrow and likewise a copy of previous correspondence to the IPCC.

They are having to jump through hoops, and they are having to reply. As I have stated earlier, I'm just getting the feeling that *eventually* I'll get the outcome that I deserve, but understand that there may be plenty more letters, phonecalls etc before I get to that time.

I genuinely am enjoying it. And I know I'll not be disappointed in the end. The fact that I now know so much more about S27 helps now but I just wish I could speed the whole process up ...

PP ... x

outmac Posted on 29/09/2011 17:53
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

you're obviously seeing it through. Good on
yer.

Red_Matter Posted on 29/09/2011 18:13
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

When it's all done and dusted PP, you should write an article for FMTTM and also send press releases to the media, particularly the specialist sports mags. [^]

Title: Revenge OF THE Pink Ponce.

PinkPonce Posted on 29/09/2011 18:38
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Outmac [^]

Red - it'd need to be the FMTTM Christmas Annual [:D] but I do think that it could end up in the press at some point because other cases that the FSF have been involved with have ... It all depends on how far it goes and how much of a battle it becomes before I inevitably win [^]

PP ... x

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 29/09/2011 18:48
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

PP, so what would be a satisfactory resolution for you?

zzzzz Posted on 29/09/2011 19:07
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Because you didn't keep your gob shut in the first place and acted the billy big bollox we now find "They are having to jump through hoops" coz you've been bleating to your MP.

As if the police don't have more important things to do. [sad]

PinkPonce Posted on 29/09/2011 19:11
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Difficult to say at this stage because this one case won't change the world but they shouldn't be able to use S27 against football fans which is ultimately what the FSF are fighting for ...

But for me personally, confirmation from both forces that all traces and details of this non event are removed from all records, details / photos destroyed, confirmation that there's no details in relation to football intelligence confirmed by CP, an admission that it was unjustly served and hence an apology from WYP. It would be funished off nicely if a refund of my ticket and travel costs however, I've not even spoke to the FSF regarding any possible resolutions really so I dunno - we've only discussed as far as (expecting) a substandard full response from WYP ...

Ultimately, some guideline on it's use to control football fans, but I'll not do that myself obviously ...

PP ... x

PinkPonce Posted on 29/09/2011 19:15
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

What's the matter zzzzz, were you too small to become a bobby [cr][:D]

Suck my balls you odious cretin ...

PP ... x

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 29/09/2011 19:17
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Think you might have to set your sights considerably lower than that PP, complaints like yours will be ten-a-penny, but good luck regardless.

zzzzz Posted on 29/09/2011 19:25
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

That's a pretty pathetic response PP and not like you at all. Shame really [sad]

PinkPonce Posted on 29/09/2011 19:29
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Jonny - genuinely, that's a pretty low expectation IMO considering the feedback I've had so far and how I feel about the whole thing. especially when you look at other cases which have been successful! but thanks all the same, I appreciate it [^]

zzzzz, it's not as pathetic as the way you've sat and sniped from this threads inception ... You can't help but read though can you - you need a little bit of ponceshine, and you can't resist clicking that mouse and opening this thread. Can you.

PP ... x

zzzzz Posted on 29/09/2011 19:43
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Of course I'm reading it, unlike the majority of incessant drivel you post it's an interesting subject.

And if you're honest you'll admit that I very rarely contribute to any of your threads or comment on any of your posts. "Ponceshire" [:D]

And also if you're honest you'd admit that this is just another look at me episode. Funny coloured hair. flips flops to the match, no socks etc etc.

I don't have a problem with that at all, just a bit surprised that more people on here can't see through it.

No doubt this will run and run, you'll milk it for all the attention you can get but on this occasion it irks me because you're diverting the police away from more important jobs.

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 29/09/2011 19:49
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

"but on this occasion it irks me because you're diverting the police away from more important jobs"

I don't think they will be that much time spent on this tbh [:D]

Bill_Leather Posted on 29/09/2011 19:50
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zzzzzz - it irks me because you're diverting the police away from more important jobs.

Surely not. You must be easily irked. Worraya think the cops got Professional Standards Departments for?

Let him get on with it, fock all to do with you.

zzzzz Posted on 29/09/2011 19:51
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Oh there's been 5 letters you know and the quickest response to a football letter *EVER*

PinkPonce Posted on 29/09/2011 19:59
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

[:D] FFS ...

A couple of points:

1) Are you suggesting that I went out my way as an innocent person to get an S27 so I could post this to seek attention on a messageboard?

2) Are you actually suggesting that I wore flip flops to the match for attention? And ignoring the fact that before I even started posting on here, people were talking about me, unbeknown to me?

People can't see though it because there's. Nothing to see through. My hair isn't coloured, I wear flip flops now and again, and sometimes I choose to not wear socks with certain footwear - what the fück is there to see through? I don't get ready on a morning and think, I know, I'll stik my flip flops on today, that'll get em talking! [:D]

Have you honestly heard yourself?

As for diverting the police away from their proper more important jobs, if they'd concentrated on doing their proper jos on 13th August and dealing with important issues they'd not have to deal with these consequences which they've inevitably brought upon themselves.

Trust me, this one will run and run and run, and I don't care either - it might make them think about things, and realise what they're doing is unjust the next time someone wants to use there freedoms of association and assembly under article 11 of the human rights act [^]

PP ... x

Emmersons_BrazillianDong Posted on 29/09/2011 20:35
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

If he did something wrong they should have arrested Ponce for a public order offence. They didn't because he didn't and they just thought they were clever.

What they didn't expect was someone to challenge them formally and now the chunts have to justify their decision, which was bollox in the first place.

The laws of the land are indeed applicable to those that enforce the laws of this country. AS I work with the police I know that they forget this on a more frequent basis than you might think.

Keep it up Ponce [^]

aytonboro Posted on 29/09/2011 20:55
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

this thread is too long and too much XXXXXX and sniping on it. can you just post a new thread with the latest developments on?
[^]

glover_elbow Posted on 29/09/2011 21:28
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

I think the ultimate result would be for the police, officers involved to be reprimanded or at worst made to think they can't act in the same manner again good on you ponce. Wouldn't worry about swales he must be ready for his big fat police pension

marsked_magician Posted on 29/09/2011 21:32
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

"I had a bit of a laugh with one of the female officers and told her that I needed to go and get something from the Vivienne Westwood shop and that I don't even like football, it was all good fun"

Your craic is awful mate. I cringed when I read that [:D]

degsyspesh Posted on 29/09/2011 21:37
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

"I think the ultimate result would be for the police, officers involved to be reprimanded or at worst made to think they can't act in the same manner again........."

It might be the ultimate result, but I would be pretty certain that it won't be what happens.

If everyone who was affected complained then there might be a chance as it is much harder to dismiss the voices of several hundred fans all saying the same thing than a lone individual who will rightly or wrongly just be dismissed as an antagonist.

Voltaire Posted on 29/09/2011 21:47
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

PinkPonce - you're a hero mate, I hope you realise that. This is exactly what we should all be doing. Hats off. [^]

Free_Subbuteo_171 Posted on 29/09/2011 21:56
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Do the police have to comply with DSARs?


PinkPonce Posted on 29/09/2011 22:31
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

EBD - Absolutely spot on. Unfortunately you won't get through to the likes of zzzzz, as his opinion of me and anything involving me is blinkered because of who I am and the fact that I wear flip flops on occasion ...

Volitaire [:I] Cheers mate ...

PP ... x

Emmersons_BrazillianDong Posted on 29/09/2011 22:39
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Flip flops FFS [:D]

Bill_Leather Posted on 29/09/2011 23:47
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

"I think the ultimate result would be for the police, officers involved to be reprimanded or at worst made to think they can't act in the same manner again........."

The problem here (ie unfair use of s.27 on our poncy or any other poor soul) is not really about what the individual officers do or indeed did, since the remedy lies at the level of force policy which informs the use of the power.

Hence Liberty and FSF going for judicial review of the power - if they ever get the necessary funds together.

skymasterson Posted on 30/09/2011 02:14
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Ignore the haters PP. You might have acted a bit daft and probably were a bit too mouthy but that is absolutely zero reason for the police to do anything other than ask you to stop being daft and their actual reaction was hugley disproportionate. Police contonue to discriminate against people for wanting to watch a game of football and the more action taken against these forces the better. Good luck with this.

PinkPonce Posted on 30/09/2011 09:24
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Bill Leather - Exactly right ... The more people who challenge things like this, and ultimately succeed, then the more chance Liberty and the FSF have got when it comes to taking this case (Section 27 overall, not mine) to the highest level for review ...

Skymasterson - Thanks, and don't worry, I do ... I take the negative comments with a pinch of salt, because I know they're just based on the fact that it's me it's happened to, rather than them or someone they know, and the fact that they know that they'll never ever look as good as me [^]

PP ... x

skiprat Posted on 30/09/2011 09:27
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

"As if the police don't have more important things to do"

Such as stopping people that just want to go and watch football, watching football?

Idiot.

PinkPonce Posted on 30/09/2011 09:30
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

[:D]

As I've said already Skiprat - His opinion is clouded because he doesn't like ME. They should have had more important things to do on the day of the match, and then they'd still have the time to do their 'important' stuff now instead of answering to old Poncey [^]

PP ... x

gravyboat Posted on 30/09/2011 09:33
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'because on occasion I wear flip-flops'

Yer daft get [:D]

Keep it up lad. You're doing the right thing. [^]

jono_feds Posted on 30/09/2011 09:56
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PP, must be incredibly frustrating to try and articulate your points when people are trying to wind you up left right and centre primarily because of a preconception based on tongue-in-cheek posts about veeting your balls.

Despite what half the things have been said, I find it hard to believe that anyone really thinks you've done much wrong here and that you've been dealt an injustice by being forced to miss a football match at your own time and expense because of the abuse of a police order designed for use in a completely different purpose.

To be honest, even if you were 'a bit mouthy' as some have implied, this doesn't deserve an arrest or being forced to miss the match.

Perhaps when you have finished all of this, you could set up a little website giving advice on what to do if this happens to you. Then maybe this could be sent out to other fanzines so they can see what to do from a fans perspective. As you say, if enough people cause a fuss then these section 27's won't be dished out so easily.

ccole Posted on 30/09/2011 10:12
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

"Keep it up lad. You're doing the right thing"[:O]


Wearing of flip flops for an away game at Dirty Leeds isnt the "right thing"[ref]

gravyboat Posted on 30/09/2011 10:14
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

[:D]

Tbf, I think he was just sock-less at Leeds. Though not sure why I'm being fair about that, the massive tart.

PinkPonce Posted on 30/09/2011 10:15
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Jono [^]

To be honest, I'm pretty much used to it now. I understand that I've created a bit of a monster with the light-hearted arse gravy that I post on here, but thankfully the majority are intellegent enough to view each individual post subjectively, and maturely and not allow their preconception of me cloud their judgement ...

The simple fact of the matter is, that this could have and might continue to happen to any one of you on here, unless it is challenged more often ...

As I've posted earlier, I'm quite enjoying the challenge, and the too-ing and frow-ing. It's interesting, albeit annoying knowing what I know now, compared to how oblivious I was to S27 6 weeks ago ...

As you and EBD have correctly stated, even being mouthy to an officer doesn't warrant an arrest. The officer in question has took a cowards way out ... He has used excessive force (If I had done to him what he had done to me, I would have been arrested and charged with assaulting a police officer) and he has completely and utterly abused a power which is and was never designed for use at a football match.

Hopefully, as time progresses and it comes to the end, I will document every piece of correspondence I've had including the emails from the FSF and Tom Blenkinsop as well as the police letters, because as you quite rightly state, knowledge of this and more challenges will stop other innocent people being punished for no reason, and hence save the police the time and expense from having to answer to persistant little phuckers like me.

Thanks for your post It's really appreciated [^]

PP ... x

jono_feds Posted on 30/09/2011 10:26
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

To be fair, when my two year old is mouthy to me she doesn't even go on the naughty step let alone miss a football match. Maybe I'm too lenient!

PinkPonce Posted on 30/09/2011 10:29
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Depends if she's wearing flip flops or no socks, obviously ...

PP ... x

oooooo Posted on 30/09/2011 10:36
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"light-hearted arse gravy"

Aaaah, Bisto!

PinkPonce Posted on 30/09/2011 10:59
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[:D][^]

PP ... x

deganya Posted on 30/09/2011 11:29
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Hang on in there Poncey, you know you are right, and the majority on here know it too !

[^]

PinkPonce Posted on 30/09/2011 12:55
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Cheers Deganya, I will do ...

Justice for the Ponce [:D]

PP ... x

Bobby_Braithwaite Posted on 30/09/2011 12:56
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“I take the negative comments with a pinch of salt, because I know they're just based on the fact that it's me it's happened to” – but there again the majority wouldn’t get into the position in the first place


“As I've posted earlier, I'm quite enjoying the challenge, and the too-ing and frow-ing” – I have nothing better to do with my time and whilst I have plods responding to my complaint I’m quite happy for criminals to get away with the crimes they commit.

I hope you're not wasting your employers time and doing all this in your time when you're not getting paid.

Some people in the private sector have it far too easy.

PinkPonce Posted on 30/09/2011 13:02
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'but there again the majority wouldn’t get into the position in the first place'

There were 2,000 people in the same position as me at Leeds. That position being 'going to a football match'.

'I have nothing better to do with my time and whilst I have plods responding to my complaint I’m quite happy for criminals to get away with the crimes they commit'

If the police were intent on dealing with criminals in the first place, rather than using powers handed to them for entirely different reasons on football fans, then they wouldn't have to spend the additional time now trying to justify their actions.

'I hope you're not wasting your employers time and doing all this in your time when you're not getting paid'

From an earlier post to Jonny:

'As for the time, it helps pass those nights in London. It takes nothing to write a letter really, it's just being bothered to do something in the first place'

Thank you, come again ...

PP ... x

PinkPonce Posted on 30/09/2011 13:42
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'I was in Leeds for 4 hours before the game. No problems at all but I didn't bother licking the plods rears.

I got to the game on time via a taxi and got away no problem.

But that's the way it is, keep clear of the plods, don't wear colours to places like Leeds and you don't have a problem.

But as we all know PP knows best on all matters.

He'll have to learn there are consequences sometimes of doing certain things (just like there appears to have been on Saturday).

If you believe his version of events (now that's another matter), we all know how his version of things can differ from reality.

Is this just another one of his attention seeking posts hoping to set a record.'

Poor BOBBY [:D][cr][sad]

PP ... x

COULBYBORO Posted on 30/09/2011 13:42
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"I hope you're not wasting your employers time and doing all this in your time when you're not getting paid.",-what about you bobby,(I'm at home waiting to go on nights.)especially if your'e in the public sector.

PinkPonce Posted on 30/09/2011 13:51
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

[:D][^]

PP ... x

oooooo Posted on 30/09/2011 14:06
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What criminals are escaping because he has written one or two letters? [:D]

Are the bobbies distracted reading these letters in the office while some bloke with a swag bag carts off the plasma display form behind him?

Because, as we all know, when the desk-jockey's in-tray gets empty, he sprints from the building immediately to hunt down crims.

PinkPonce Posted on 30/09/2011 14:12
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

[:D] Trod ...

Phucking brilliant isn't it [cr]

PP ... x

zzzzz Posted on 30/09/2011 20:04
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"His opinion is clouded because he doesn't like ME." Eh? [:D]

How can I dislike you when I've never met you? I don't have an opinion on you either way.

People whose opinion I respect on here (as much as you can from a MB) say that you're a decent bloke in the flesh so I take that on board.

I think you're an obsessive attention seeker and a bit immature but doesn't mean I either like or dislike you.

Get a grip FFS.

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 30/09/2011 20:08
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

"If the police were intent on dealing with criminals in the first place, rather than using powers handed to them for entirely different reasons on football fans, then they wouldn't have to spend the additional time now trying to justify their actions."

Bit of an arrogant statement that one.

6876 Posted on 30/09/2011 23:02
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If your are advised on what action you should take next time the police attempt to give you one, post it up[^]

ron_manager Posted on 30/09/2011 23:08
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Right behind you PP...to me you are this man[:D]


Link: Free PP Grant

PinkPonce Posted on 02/10/2011 12:45
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6876, unfortunately there's nothing you can do if the police issue a S27, if you question it, or don't comply with the 15 minutes to leave you will be arrested and then have a criminal record and likely a Football Banning Order! This is has so ridiculous about it.

I will post up however things that could help you, such as if you haven't had an alcoholic drink etc.

PP ... x

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 02/10/2011 15:20
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like writing letters don't you. [:D]

PinkPonce Posted on 11/10/2011 10:34
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*Update 11/10/2011.

Letter received from the IPCC, acknowledging receipt of all correspondence.

Email received from Tom Blenkinsop regarding an update on information and progress etc.

UTP [:D]

PP ... x

PinkPonce Posted on 21/10/2011 14:37
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*Update 21/10/2011.

Further letter to WYP in response to their 4th letter [^]

UTP.

PP ... x

PinkPonce Posted on 28/10/2011 09:28
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*Update 28/10/2011.

PC Tim Swales has finally admitted in writing that despite him not being able to assist in Leeds when the section 27 was issued because it was 'outside of his jurisdiction' that he has used the information he obtained from me for football intelligence purposes, and it is now stored on their intelligence system.

Yes, that's correct - I am now highlighted as a 'Risk Supporter' for politely requesting that I use alternative transport to a football game, after having my rights under Article 11 of the Human Rights act breached

NOW this whole thing has just gotten even more interesting.

Hope you're all prepared for this - Cos I've not even got started yet

PP ... x

Lisbonlegend Posted on 28/10/2011 09:30
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GOPL![ref]

COULBYBORO Posted on 28/10/2011 10:41
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Keep at them PP.[^]

bear66 Posted on 28/10/2011 10:43
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Unfortunately there are far greater instances of misuse of power than this that haven't been corrected so you're unlikely to 'succeed'

deganya Posted on 28/10/2011 11:01
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Doesn't matter if its likely to succeed or not,the fact he is trying to change things for the better and the more people get behind him the more likely is his success.

Someone has to make a stand and if successful it will hopefully set a precedent that other football supporters can follow in the future.

PinkPonce Posted on 28/10/2011 11:05
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[^]

PP ... x

JimmyFloydPiggybank Posted on 28/10/2011 23:18
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Just found some CCTV footage of that incident in Leeds, Yates FFS


Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gyt-71DkVM4&feature

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 29/10/2011 09:42
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"Hope you're all prepared for this - Cos I've not even got started yet"

FFS

PinkPonce Posted on 10/11/2011 09:05
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Following my previous update as follows:

"*Update 29/09/2011.

On advice from the IPCC and FSF, it has today escalated to the IPCC as an official complaint, due to the fact that West Yorkshire Police have not reported it, and are dealing with it as a central issue"

I received a letter from WYP advising that the matter was being dealt with as a internal central force issue, and had not been recorded with the IPCC. I had 28 days only to appeal that decision, and as my complaint focussed on various points, and not just a 'Quality of Service' issue which WYP had catagorised it, I did appeal this decision.

After receiving confirmation from the IPCC that they had received my appeal and all necessary documentation, I have now, this week, received a further letter from the IPCC advising that my appeal has been 'Upheld' which is great news.

There are certain aspects of my complaint that should NOT be recorded as a formal complaint with the IPCC, and are simply internal WYP issues, but they still require a comprehensive answer.

I have also now received an additional letter from WYP and an email confirming all of the above, and that it's been reallocated internally for a comprehensive answer.

Great news [^] And to all those that politely told me I wouldn't get anywhere, let this be proof that you can ...

UTB.

PP ... x

deganya Posted on 10/11/2011 09:13
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well done Ponce. Will you be getting an apology off them, and is your name taken off the 'dodgy football supporter' register?

PinkPonce Posted on 10/11/2011 09:21
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Thanks Deganya. First and foremost there needs to be an official full response from WYP - There's been correspondence between us but not yet a full reply to my initial letter of 15th August ...

Until I know what they say in response to the 10 or so main points, I don't know what the next step will be ...

The next step after that will be with both WYP and Cleveland Police to try and get my name cleared, because as confirmed by PC Swales, who has been helpful with his replies, my name is now on the intelligence system because I asked to get a taxi to the ground at 2:50pm ...

PP ... x

PinkPonce Posted on 10/11/2011 12:23
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Received an email from Amanda from the FSF advising that she's having a meeting now with their solicitor and are discussing my case and the next step with regards to both these 2 letters, and Clevelands response last week [^]

PP ... x

COULBYBORO Posted on 10/11/2011 17:08
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Keep at them PP.[^]

PinkPonce Posted on 10/11/2011 23:42
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Cheers Coulby - hopefully have some news from the FSF tomorrow so I can respond to this email from WYP.

PP ... x

PinkPonce Posted on 11/11/2011 12:06
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Replied to WYP's email requesting how I would like the investigation to now proceed following the IPCC's decision to uphold my appeal and complaint - Chosen a 'formal investigation', in lieu of 'Local Resolution' or 'Informal route' [^]

UTB.

PP ... x

Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants Posted on 11/11/2011 12:38
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I would like to think your name would be taken off any watch list. It will be interesting on the final say from the investigation.

degsyspesh Posted on 11/11/2011 12:52
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I wonder if WYP will be keeping an eye out for a cat-sick yellow M3 on the A1/M1 link? You might just find yourself carrying a bag of class A's that you never knew you had.......

PinkPonce Posted on 11/11/2011 12:59
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What an extremely strange statement. Are you suggesting that WYP would pull me over and pretend to find class A in my car, or worse still planting it there and 'finding' it.

Very strange indeed.

PP ... x

degsyspesh Posted on 11/11/2011 13:03
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Absolutely not, I would never suggest such a thing, must have been a typo......

PinkPonce Posted on 11/11/2011 13:46
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How very strange ... You've lost me.

PP ... x

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 11/11/2011 14:44
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"Great news And to all those that politely told me I wouldn't get anywhere, let this be proof that you can ..."

Dont wet your knickers just yet, formal complaints against the police are ten-a-penny.

I have no idea what you think you are going to achieve in your 'crusade', other than wasting a load of time for a load of people, including your own.

PinkPonce Posted on 11/11/2011 14:47
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'I have no idea what you think you are going to achieve in your 'crusade', other than wasting a load of time for a load of people, including your own'

They shouldn't have wasted my time by giving me an unjust direction to leave if they didn't want to deal with the consequences ...

And as for what I want to achieve, well getting my name of the football intelligence database, because I had the temerity to ask to get a taxi to a football ground would be nice - unless you want me to just sit back and watch as a potential banning order comes my way?

'Time you enjoy wasting, is not wasted time.'

PP ... x

colin21 Posted on 11/11/2011 14:51
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stick to your guns Pink person, you are right to complain, more people should it might teach them a lesson.

PinkPonce Posted on 11/11/2011 14:54
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What a terribly depressing outlook you have Jonny ... To think that things like this should just be accepted and not challenged ...

You're the exact kind of person which makes incidents like this 'acceptable' today because the police think that they themselves will have no repercussions from doing it ...

I'm glad that I'm wasting peoples time, and I'm glad that the behaviour of 2 specific officers is now in question, and I'm also hopeful that the officer who gave me the Direction to Leave might not do it to another football fan in future, because of my persistance.

PP ... x

PinkPonce Posted on 11/11/2011 14:55
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Thanks Colin [^]

PP ... x

degsyspesh Posted on 11/11/2011 15:00
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" if they didn't want to deal with the consequences ..."

PMSL[:D][:D][:D]

I very much doubt that any of them are "touching cloth".

I don't blame you wanting to clear your name from the register - and you may well succeed. The police may well have been in the wrong - but at the end of the day several hundred people were in the same situation as you and there was only you who got done. I wasn't there but a pound to a penny you were being a mouthy cnut. I'm not saying you deserved what happened but equally I would guess that your version that you anly asked if you could get a taxi is a little dissengenuous.

I wish you all the best with your claim but would prefer it if you stopped trying to milk it.....


PinkPonce Posted on 11/11/2011 15:07
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The consequences being having to deal with a constant flow of correspondence in both directions. And the behaviour of 2 offers in particular having been recorded as a formal complaint. I never said they'd be 'touching cloth' I've said all along that they have to answer for what happened, and the fact of the matter is, because they are having to do so, they may think twice about doing it to another innocent fan in future.

Don't think for a second that because of the way I act on here, that i'm a 'mouthy cnut' in real life Degsy.

Had I have done something wrong I would have been arrested quite clearly. I was not the only person to be issued with a direction to leave, there were a couple of others on the train home. Whether they are complaining, I don't know.

I'm not milking anything. I'm posting updates for the people who've expressed an interest in what happened, and who are keen to see how it progresses / concludes.

I'm not interested in Emmerdale or Eastenders, however I don't sit watching it every night and slagging it off. If you are not interested in this, then you really do not have to read it, nor respond to it to tell us all how disinterested you are.

I hope for your sake that you don't end up in a similar situation. Had it happened to you, or to a family member you would have a completely different outlook - Unfortunately I've probably dug my own grave in terms of this board as you're judging it purely on the username who it happened to, and not the fact that away from here, I'm just a normal lad who likes to go and watch a game of football and who has never had any trouble or dealings with the police in any of the other hundreds of games I've been to, or any other non football related issue.

PP ... x

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 11/11/2011 15:11
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i'm sure, like on here, you had an attitude about yourself, and a reaction happened.

Just get over it and move on now.

oooooo Posted on 11/11/2011 15:12
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Typical Teesside attitude towards someone wanting to do something for themselves. XXXXXX em all, poncey - I can play you in the movie once it's all calmed down.

fatharrywhite Posted on 11/11/2011 15:21
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"I'm posting updates for the people who've expressed an interest in what happened"

why dont you get their email addresses and update them that way rather than using it as an excuse to hoof it.

oooooo Posted on 11/11/2011 15:25
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Just don't click on the link, it's not as if your computer reads the thread out when you visit the site automatically.

PinkPonce Posted on 11/11/2011 15:35
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oooooo [^]

You better lose the socks if you want the leading role mind [:D] ...

Fatharry - As I've already stated above, you're not forced to read it, and even worse, comment on how not bothered you are by it all ...

The fact of the matter is, you can't help yourself. You just HAVE to click the link because you don't like a username that posts things on a public forum ... As I said to degsy, if it happened to you or to someone you know, you'd be outraged and chaining yourself to the transporter bridge for justice ...

PP ... x

gravyboat Posted on 11/11/2011 15:37
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'I'm sick of this ponce thread, it's really boring me, so I'm going to make a point of clicking on it, read the latest posts, and make another contribution to it'.


PinkPonce Posted on 11/11/2011 15:38
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Gravy [:D][^] It's unbelievable isn't it ...

If I don't like a thread subject I don't read it FFS ...

PP ... x

EnglandOnTour Posted on 11/11/2011 15:47
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Zzzzzz. [|)]

PinkPonce Posted on 11/11/2011 15:49
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[:D] Nice to see a new username make such a telling contribution ...

PP ... x

EnglandOnTour Posted on 11/11/2011 15:52
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[|)]

PinkPonce Posted on 11/11/2011 15:58
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Have you got anything at all to contribute, or do you only have that smiley in your repetoire?

PP ... x

EnglandOnTour Posted on 11/11/2011 16:02
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Just get over it.


It's only £2.50 ffs!

PinkPonce Posted on 11/11/2011 16:04
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FFS.

PP ... x

EnglandOnTour Posted on 11/11/2011 16:07
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Think you need chill pill and go to bed Poncey.

[ref]

PinkPonce Posted on 11/11/2011 16:09
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Think you need to grow some balls instead of hiding behind a new username!

PP ... x

EnglandOnTour Posted on 11/11/2011 16:36
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I don't hide at all. Think you got wrong person on here PP!


Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 11/11/2011 16:42
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"You're the exact kind of person which makes incidents like this 'acceptable' today because the police think that they themselves will have no repercussions from doing it ..."

Really?

I sympathise with what happened to you, but if your attitude then was similar to how you appear to be on here, then I suspect there's more to this than meets the eye. Maybe thats unfair though, I'm sure you'll assert it is.

But your whole approach in your reaction to this comes across as self absorbed and self important.

I've no idea what you intend to achieve by this (I actually dont think you really know yourself), but I'll guarantee you'll most likely be be disappointed.

EnglandOnTour Posted on 11/11/2011 16:46
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Jonny Ingbar good post.

oooooo Posted on 11/11/2011 17:02
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Because in real life, people are exactly like they are on here. [rle]


EnglandOnTour Posted on 11/11/2011 17:05
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Excalty.

LoinerSmoggies Posted on 11/11/2011 17:05
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In my opionion I would put pp in the same description of red faction.That is they all do wrong and then bleat like little kids when things don't go their way.FFS it's easy just. Shave yourself when you go to football and the police will leave you alone.Its not rocket science is it.

Barnsy Posted on 11/11/2011 17:16
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I agree with PP that it is only right and proper to make a stand on this if he feels strongly about it.

There are those amongst us who may shrug our shoulders and accept the situation, that is their right.

Once again we see that we are expected to leave all our human rights behind simply because we are football fans.

How would the police have reacted if the situation involved, for example, travellers?

They certainly wouldn't have charged them £2.50 to get on a bus that they didn't want to be on!

r00fie Posted on 11/11/2011 17:48
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You dont sacrifice liberty to protect security.

Give up human rights, fairness and dignity and all you have left is tyranny and barbarism.

zzzzz Posted on 11/11/2011 18:17
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"I wasn't there but a pound to a penny you were being a mouthy cnut."

Pretty much admitted that himself. He had loads of "friendly banter" with the plod including slavering over a WPC.




Senor_Chester Posted on 11/11/2011 19:15
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"I wasn't there but a pound to a penny you were being a mouthy cnut."


Like most who attend football matches we all know what the coppers can be like [:(!]

However, I can't help thinking the above will be partly true.

COULBYBORO Posted on 11/11/2011 19:21
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When was being friendly an offence?,and as for slavering over the WPC,were you there?.
Anyone who's been herded around at a football match should support PP.

Jeremy_Clarkson Posted on 11/11/2011 19:28
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SO TO SUM THIS UP


































Barry George was recognised whilst on Parole and didnt like it so he moaned and whinged and grew a beard and became David gest and bought a shiity yellow BMW and he continues to bleat like a lamb with its knackers hanging off[:D]

Poor Porky David/Barry Ponce [sad]

outmac Posted on 11/11/2011 19:38
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someone earlier up the thread mentione pp
being a 'mouthy c..t' on the day . Well
surely if he had been he would have taken
his medicine and not gone this far .
Mind you he does'nt seem that type of lad ,
i.e. 'a mouthy c..t'
Hope you get over the finishing line with
a result.[^]

offside-again Posted on 11/11/2011 22:18
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Either way he's done well to get 480 or thereabouts(and counting) replies to a thread about a minor arrest or is not even an arrest, lol I dunno, I'll call it a police matter thingy. [:D]

Well done PP, you ought to frame the f cuker. [:P]

Barnsy Posted on 11/11/2011 22:32
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Fans who travel to away games often get a rough deal from the local constabulary.

Often the police will show a bit of common sense, sadly often this component is lacking.

I do wonder (maybe unfairly)that those people on here who think that PP should accept and ignore the situation that occured at Leeds haven't actually travelled to watch their team play away and been confronted with similar situations.

Yes, perhaps it is easier to shut up and get on with it.

But well done PP for standing up to 'unfairness'.

offside-again Posted on 11/11/2011 22:45
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I eagerly await 'The truth about the I just got a speeding ticket for going 33mph' thread. [;)] [ref]

PinkPonce Posted on 14/11/2011 10:35
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Jonny - I've already explained to you a couple of posts earlier what I'm trying to achieve by persuing this - Would you like me to explain it again, or are you going to take it on board from the previous post on Friday?

Your 'guarantee' that I'll be disappointed doesn't mean I'll just give up. I was told at the beginning of the thread that I'd pretty much not even get a response - That fact that there's been numerous replies, and at this present moment in time the IPCC are involved means that I don't think I will be disappointed.

As for the rest of you who have said along with Jonny Ingbar that there'll likely be a lot more to it, and that I was mouthing off to the police etc - If that was the case, I would have been arrested. It is as simple as that.

And as Outmac said, do you think I would go through with all of this if that was the case?

I was not arrested. The simple reason for that statement is that there were no grounds for arrest. If there had have been, you can guarantee that the police - Especially with an opposing teams football fan - would have used any sort of power they had to ensure I was arrested and detained throughout the football game.

If that had been the case, then I'd have no doubt done something wrong, and would have had to accept the situation. I wasn't arrested because I hadn't done anything wrong. If I had swore, I'd have been arrested. If I'd have been confrontational I would have been arrested. If I'd have been abusive I'd have been arrested.

I was none of the above, and that's why I didn't get arrested. And that's why the IPCC have upheld my complaint regarding the conduct of 2 officers, and my overall complaint to WYP.

To have PC Swales, and another officer tell you that there's nothing they can do about it, despite admitting that it was unfair, only emphasises the point that it was unjust.

You will all come on here and state that I deserved it because I was mouthing off etc, when you don't know that for fact - But I know 100% and can guarantee that had it happened to you, or someone you know you'd be on here waxing lyrical about how disgraceful it was ...

Once this is all finished, I'll physically type out every single letter that has gone backwards and forewards between both myself, WY and Cleveland Police Forces, the IPCC, The House of Commons to WYP and between myself and Tom Blenkinsop.

You can then make your own mind up as to whether you believe West Yorkshire Police's handling of both the situation and my treatment that day was fair and reasonable and that I deserve to be classed as a Risk Supporter and a potential football hooligan, simply for requesting to get a taxi to a football match, whilst otherwise abiding with everything the police asked of me in a polite and nomn-provocative manner.

UTB [^]

PP ... x

oooooo Posted on 14/11/2011 10:57
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Don't type them up into here, probably better to scan and host elsewhere as stuff gets deleted on here.

MightyDuck Posted on 14/11/2011 11:17
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stick to your guns PP. hopefully cases like this will be the first step to football fans being treat like members of the public on a day out.

imagine the uproar if you'd went there shopping and got turned away by the police.

PinkPonce Posted on 14/11/2011 13:26
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oooooo - I will do, I'll set up a blog site or something and upload them all ...

They'll help pass a day or three [:D] ...

Cheers Mighty Duck - I will don't worry ... I just find it ludicrous that people think I should just roll over, get my belly tickled and be branded a football hooligan for having the temerity to try and leave a pub, then obide by everything the police asked of me for 3 hours, only to be on the receiving end of this treatment 5 minutes before kick off when I was still 15 minutes away from the ground!

PP ... x

Emmersons_BrazillianDong Posted on 14/11/2011 13:40
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"Once this is all finished, I'll physically type out every single letter that has gone backwards and forewards between both myself, WY and Cleveland Police Forces, the IPCC, The House of Commons to WYP and between myself and Tom Blenkinsop.

You can then make your own mind up as to whether you believe West Yorkshire Police's handling of both the situation and my treatment that day was fair and reasonable and that I deserve to be classed as a Risk Supporter and a potential football hooligan, simply for requesting to get a taxi to a football match, whilst otherwise abiding with everything the police asked of me in a polite and nomn-provocative manner."

That's a good idea actually mate. Perhaps a blog would raise more awareness of these kinds of incidents though.


flaps Posted on 14/11/2011 13:41
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I used to know Tom Blenkinsop. He's a great lad [^]

PinkPonce Posted on 14/11/2011 14:00
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Yeah a Blog isn't a bad idea to be honest ...

Flaps, He's been so helpful and supportive since I initially copied him into the first piece of correspondence. He's even emailing me asking for updates, and if I need him to chase anybody up [:D][^]

PP ... x

PinkPonce Posted on 15/11/2011 12:40
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*Update 14/11/2011:

Email received from WYP confirming that the investigation will now be moved on via a Formal Investigation.

Correspondence with Amanda from the FSF following her meeting with their Solicitor stating that we are to wait the conclusion of the formal investigation before dealing with both any issues that arise in that, and the issue of Cleveland retaining my details on their intelligence database.

[^]

PP ... x

Emmersons_BrazillianDong Posted on 15/11/2011 12:54
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Are you doing this through letter/email or both?

cos_mic Posted on 15/11/2011 13:01
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I'd just like to say good luck and well done so far PP. I know that if this had happened to me (and I've probably been lucky it hasn't), I would be fugging annoyed but would have probably rolled over and had my belly tickled because I'm a lazy sod. I have respect for anyone who stands up for their rights as you're doing and anyone who who doesn't needs to put themselves in your position and think how they'd feel. That is all.

PinkPonce Posted on 15/11/2011 13:26
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Thank you very much, Cos Mic [^] ...

EBD - It's predominantly by letter, however, I received a letter from West Yorkshire police last week advising that the IPCC had informed them that they had upheld my complaint and that they'd be in further contact with me to advise who will now investigate my complaint ... That contact came via email, which I'd included within the official IPCC forms, so I've responded, via email, however with an official letter stating it was sent by email.

I presume they've contacted me via email in this instance, as they only have some many days to make contact following the IPCC's decision.

PP ... x

PinkPonce Posted on 16/11/2011 14:09
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Thanks LoinerSmoggies for pointing out the following article of other problems with away fans at Elland Road - This time Portsmouth FC.

"On the 1st of October, Portsmouth supporters travelled to Elland Road for a Championship fixture. They were the first visiting fans to use the re-sited away section; taking just 554 fans (possibly due in part to the increased price of £36) to an area that holds approximately 1100 fans.

Whilst the game was in progress, the Pompey Supporters' Trust helpline started to get calls from concerned fans that were at the game. Complaints were straightforward; over-zealous stewarding and excessive ‘in-your-face’ videoing by the police. After the game, the Football Supporters’ Federation and the Trust received more complaints by phone and email and so Ken Malley, PST Board Member and FSF National Council member contacted the Portsmouth police for their take on the affair. Paul Foley, the Portsmouth Intelligence Officer and Supt Rick Burrows, the Silver Commander in charge of policing football in Hampshire, were both quick to reply assuring Ken that although the policing at Leeds was the responsibility of the West Yorkshire police and that they were only there as observers, they would ask WYP for an explanation.

Rick Burrows followed this up with a precis of when and why Hampshire Constabulary would use filming. The complete statement is below but the paragraph that should be crucial before any filming takes place reads “the use of video / stills must have a legitimate need and should not be used in such a way that is unnecessary, disproportionate or affects the enjoyment of the vast majority of peaceful fans who want to watch the football.”

Mr Burrows did approach WYP and eventually succeeded in getting a statement from them (also below) that sadly seems to suggest that filming is a regular occurrence and was only made obvious because Pompey took so few fans. They did say that “on the ground deployments will be reviewed and refined if necessary for future fixtures”. When Cardiff City fans, visited Elland Road 4 weeks later, taking less fans than Portsmouth, they suffered in the same way. About one hundred of their supporters left the stadium in protest and held a peaceful demonstration in the car park.

It is obvious that there are different approaches to the use of video cameras amongst the 43 police forces in this country. Therefore the Football Supporters' Federation will be discussing filming with ACPO, the Association of Chief Police Officers, with the request that the use of cameras should be standardised and that it should be recognised that it is objectionable to the average law-abiding fan and should only be used when it serves a worthwhile purpose.

It is worth remembering that for the cost of £10 anyone may request a copy of all information relating to them that is held by the police; this includes a copy of any video surveillance.

If you need further details on this contact the FSF at www.fsf.org.uk/contact-us.php

Meanwhile PIO Paul Foley has declared that for all future away fixtures his pre-match report to the host force will include the paragraph “There have been recent issues around the overt use of police filming of Portsmouth supporters in seated areas of the stadium. It has been perceived by certain sections as not being proportionate and intrusive. Formal complaint has been raised to police via the FSF (Football Supporters Federation).” So at least the host police know that Pompey fans have some knowledge of their rights and will no longer suffer in silence.

If you have concerns over the way you are treated at games contact the FSF or the Pompey Supporters’ Trust helpline:

07980 843600.

As Pompey fan Sue Maskell said in a recent ‘Twohundredpercent’ article “Time to treat fans like citizens, not ‘anti-social entities.’”


Statement from Hampshire police"

PP ... x

MightyDuck Posted on 16/11/2011 14:18
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Hampshire police took a 45 minute video of me at Southampton a few years ago.

i thought they just fancied me [:X]

PinkPonce Posted on 16/11/2011 14:25
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

The thing is, Mighty Duck, whilst you might think it's innocent and you weren't doing anything untoward, the way the images of you are presented could be completely different ...

Pictures of you talking to an officer can be used to portray you being confrontational or aggressive, when you might have been talking about the weather ...

Pictures of you singing in the stands at a ground can be used to show you enticing opposition fans ...

I've seen it with my own eyes before, so I know it happens ...

PP ... x

Humpty Posted on 16/11/2011 14:27
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what did i tell you loire!!

PinkPonce Posted on 16/11/2011 14:30
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Poor HUMPTY [sad]

That automatic thread openerupperer is a nightmare isn't it ... Makes avoiding threads impossible ...

PP ... x

LoinerSmoggies Posted on 16/11/2011 14:33
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In some respects it was inevitable that a group of fans would collectively reach a breaking point, and take a stand at the way supporters are treated by many professional clubs. However the fact that it happened at Elland Road yesterday, and the Cardiff City fans concerned ended up boycotting the end of a game where they had already paid was still a surprise.

Cardiff City fans don’t have the greatest of reputations, most notably due to the actions of the Soul Crew – one of the most notorious of the hooligan firms of the 70s, 80s and 90s – and matches between the Bluebirds and Leeds United have had flashpoints in the past (most notably the FA Cup Third Round game between the two in 2002. However, while I would never defend nor condone hooliganism, not every Cardiff City fan is a hooligan. In fact the vast majority of Bluebirds fans are law abiding citizens, and most of their away following just want to follow their team round the country, like fans of most teams. In fact, the club has brought in so many effective measures designed to reduce hooliganism at Cardiff games, that they are the current holders of the title “Football League Family Club of the Year”

However, unlike fans from most other teams, Cardiff City fans have to jump through the more than the occasional hoop when travelling away from home. In recent seasons Wolverhampton Wanderers banned all Cardiff fans from attending, and the Police have a stronger presence at games where flashpoints have occurred in similar fixtures in the past. And while there are good reasons for certain actions taken by the authorities, because the decisions have been taken with the general public’s safety in mind, but sometimes decisions made by police, stewards and/or the clubs themselves go too far. And yesterday’s treatment of Cardiff City fans at Elland Road was one of those occasions.

First of all, the game kicked off at 1.15pm. Not the ideal time and day for weekend football, but the “heated rivalry” aspect was one of the reasons why the game was selected for live screening by Sky. One might expect that such a game with a heated rivalry might usually be moved to a Sunday by the police (as happens with local derbies up and down the country), with an early kickoff as a matter of course. Not so. Cardiff have only played at Elland Road in the League four times in the last seventeen years – and all of these have taken place since 2005. Apart from the meeting between the two in October 2010 (which was also switched to a Monday night for television coverage), all of the other meetings between the two have taken place at the traditional time of 3pm on a Saturday.

As well as the time, there come the excessive prices at Elland Road. These apply to all fans at all clubs, and Leeds fans bear the brunt of one of the most expensive ticket schemes outside the Premier League. Adult tickets were £36, with the “concessions” being a bargain £29 and £25 for seniors and children respectively, for a seat at the southern end of in the West Stand Upper (an area that Leeds have struggled to sell tickets to home fans in the past, mainly because it offers the worst view of Elland Road, with the far goal obscured). However, Cardiff fans were not able to get these tickets from the ticket office in Cardiff – they had to collect them from Woolley Edge service station on the M1, eleven miles away from Elland Road – between 10.45am and 11.30am – before being escorted to the ground. This meant that you either had to drive (an option presumably only allowed for non-Cardiff based fans), or take the coaches laid on by the club, and even then you either had to be a season ticket holder and be an away member with photo membership card to get a ticket in the first place. This membership scheme one of the many successful measures that Cardiff have brought in to try and curb their hooligan element.

Once in the ground, the treatment of the fans did not improve. As well as being filmed and photographed from the front of the stand by a handful of police officers, the stewards started ejecting large numbers of fans for persistent standing (something that also recently happened when Portsmouth visited Elland Road, and is becoming a common occurrence at grounds). Now, contrary to popular belief, standing up at a Premier League or Championship ground is not illegal. The Football Spectators Act states that clubs in the top two tiers have to provide all-seater stadia, not that fans have to use the seats. This was confirmed by a letter from the Department for Culture, Media and Sport to the Football Supporter’s Federation in 2008 stated ‘At no point has it been argued that the individual spectator commits a criminal offence by standing in a seated area. ‘Persistent standing; however is against Leeds United’s ground regulations – but this is the case for almost all Premier League and Championship clubs, and the standard ground regulations that the Football League pass on to their member clubs state: ‘Nobody may stand in any seating area whilst play is in progress. Persistent standing in seated areas whilst play is in progress is
strictly forbidden and may result in ejection from the ground’. However, in reality most clubs try and adopt a relaxed attitude towards fans standing in seated areas (Richard Scudamore is quoted as saying that ‘a measure of persistent standing should be tolerated’ at a meeting of the Football Licensing Authory in 2006) and surely, if the game was being treated as such a potential flashpoint in the build up by the police, that surely the stewards should have taken an approach to turn a blind eye, rather than risk inflaming what the local police had otherwise considered such a delicate situation.

However, the action that approximately 100 of the Cardiff City contingent took, was not to respond to such heavy-handed tactics in kind. Instead, they walked out in solidarity, and began demonstrating outside the ground, in protest at the ejection of their fellow supporters. The demonstration was subsequently filmed by the police and a representative of the Football Supporters Federation – the Leeds stewards attempted to stop the FSF representative filming, and demanded his footage, but this was refused (as stewards have no legal right to do this). As a one-off protest, what will this mean? So far, it has hardly been reported in the media, and Ken Bates will hardly be bothered, as the boycotting fans will already have handed over their money to him – but yesterday’s events were clearly the final straw for a number of fans, many of whom will decide to visit fewer away games (and maybe even home games too) in future, and if one group of fans decide to boycott a game while they are leading, what is to stop other fans making similar points, by going through the type of rigmarole that the Cardiff fans were subjected to yesterday, but stopping short of paying to get into the game?

In a year where the FA Premier League have threatened to withhold funding from Supporters Direct and the Football League clubs, and at a time when clubs are continue to increase the cost of watching the game, individual fans have been making decisions to stop funding football – in part, in total, or just at certain levels of the game, but most of these decisions have been made individually, with no real message sent to the authorities that when it comes to handing over money, most professional clubs now view fans as customers, yet fans are increasingly finding that they are no longer treated as customers once they have paid the entrance fee. However, this type of instantaneous protest sits alongside a number of protests being arranged to show the clubs, authorities and television channels exactly just how important supporters are to the game, and who actually funds the game in the first place. And if clubs want to continue accepting the custom of fans, they may have to start treating them as customers, otherwise fans might start acting like customers, and like the Cardiff fans yesterday, vote with their feet.


LoinerSmoggies Posted on 16/11/2011 14:55
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Sorry I missed the statements from the respective police forces.





PinkPonce Posted on 16/11/2011 15:40
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[^]

PP ... x

fridaynighttipple Posted on 16/11/2011 15:42
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some shameless hoofing there for the 500 up congrats on such a milestone[^]

PinkPonce Posted on 16/11/2011 15:53
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Hopefully in another 500 posts time there'll be a bit of Justice and all the doubters will eat their words [^]

PP ... x

LoinerSmoggies Posted on 16/11/2011 16:06
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Sorry I missed the statements from the respective police forces.




"The use of video / photography has been used for many years now at Football and indeed across a whole range of Public Order / Public safety events ie protests etc. The use of the camera has been a significantly successful tool in reducing the levels of football related disorder by deterring disorder or capturing evidence of disorder for any post event investigation. It has also been used to great effect in building up intelligence profiles about that small minority who are intent on generating or taking part in football related violence.

That said, the use of video / stills must have a legitimate need and should not be used in such a way that is unnecessary, disproportionate or affects the enjoyment of the vast majority of peaceful fans who want to watch the football.

In Hampshire, we have a clear deployment strategy that sets out when and how video / stills will be used. Essentially this is;



1) To deter disorder by targeted overt filming IE where individual’s or groups’ behaviour is such as to cause concern that this might generate disorder or compromise safety of other fans. The presence of an overt video is usually sufficient to stop even those affected by drink or intent on causing issues.



2) To capture evidence of disorder or behaviour that is beyond the norms of acceptability (for post event or for Sect 14 B orders)



3) To gather intelligence : again this must be targeted at individuals or groups who are legitimately assessed as providing a risk to disorder based on their behaviour / recent history etc



There should be no overt blanket filming as it doesn't deliver anything of value. There is always full CCTV coverage in the stadium which can be used (though the quality varies greatly).



Whilst we continue to use overt Video at Football it will only be done to achieve any of these 3 outcomes. It is right that we should periodically remind our operators of these restrictions although they are simple common sense. I hope that this may re-assure some of your supporters that it is about a targeted deterrent or evidence / intelligence gathering.


Statement from West Yorkshire police

“This was the first fixture where the new away seating arrangements were in place at Elland Road. The movement of away fans from the south east corner to the west stand has increased the away capacity by nearly 50%, and was a decision taken by LUFC. Therefore, when an away team’s support only takes up a small part of that section of stand it will make the Evidence Gatherers operating in that area more obvious to the fans.
I can assure those making this enquiry that the policing style or police deployment has not changed in anyway but may be more obvious than before due the extra space now provided by the West Stand. The deployment of Evidence Gathering teams is an essential part of policing; however the actual on the ground deployments will be reviewed and refined if necessary for future fixtures."

LoinerSmoggies Posted on 16/11/2011 16:19
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I'm going to be honest here and say I wasn't one of pink ponces greatest fans early on when the incident happened and possibly a few weeks after.I will admit I maybe had the wrong impression of him rightly or wrongly reached from other peoples opinions of him but over the passage of time I have changed that opionion and I really feel people should support him in his fight against wyp especially when you read what has happened to Cardiff and Portsmouth fans at Elland Road.As a football fan who travels all over the world following my club and country it is evident that all football fans are treated as criminals and that is wrong.We as football fans have no human rights and that is all wrong.So I say good luck pp

degsyspesh Posted on 16/11/2011 16:48
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There is a big difference between the cases of Cardiff, Pompey and Boro. In the first two cases it was a group of fans that all complained about their treatment. In Boros case it is just one. Whether what PP says is the whole truth or not it is always going to be very difficult to get anywhere as a single voice against a police force. As far as I am aware, of all if the fans that went to Elland Road only one has had an issue with the police. When you haven't even got anyone standing by your side to back up your story it is always going to be an uphill struggle.

At worst this seems to be an issue with an individual officers action of the day rather than a general issue with wyp's policing of the match.

PinkPonce Posted on 16/11/2011 17:16
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Appreciate what you're saying Degsy, however the more INDIVIDUAL supporters who challenge the use of Section 27 at football games the better, and the more chance the FSF and Liberty have of getting it's use at football games restricted.

PP ... x

sonofaBOROMAN28 Posted on 16/11/2011 17:18
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PP go to the match,dont be a coc ky pri ck,or smartar se its not worth it.
welcome to Britain 2011 the year of the police state

Bill_Leather Posted on 16/11/2011 18:41
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'At worst this seems to be an issue with an individual officers action of the day rather than a general issue with wyp's policing of the match.'

Possibly, but not necessarily. It's (perhaps too) easy to blame individual officers but they may be - to a greater or lesser extent -merely enacting policy set by the institution. So, for example, those who complain about being kettled (as a policy of public order containment) probably wouldn't point the finger of blame at the individual officers doing the kettling. Potentially, what happened to Big Pince Ponce, well, is the same (albeit of course a different power has been being invoked).

degsyspesh Posted on 16/11/2011 19:21
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All I'm saying is that (as far as I know) nobody else has complained (or even moaned on here that I can recall). You are always going to be dismissed as a troublemaker if you are a lone voice in such circumstances. While I may take the pi55, I genuinely do hope that you get your name cleared as I very much doubt that whatever happened warrated you being placed on some register.

PinkPonce Posted on 17/11/2011 08:36
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

SonofaBOROMAN ... I wasn't going to the match to be one of them - I was going to simply watch the match, socialise with friends, have a drink, some food, then go out in Middlesbrough on the night ...

I was stopped from evening leaving to go to a cash point or to a shop for some chewing gum ... I didn't kick up a fuss, or act anything but politely when I was told I couldn't leave the pub ...

Degsy ... How do you know no one else complained? I wasn't the only person to get a section 27 - But more importantly, just because no one else complains, doesn't mean that I should sit back and accept what happened ...

I wasn't a lone voice at the time, but I did nothing out of turn - Other people posted earlier in the thread that they seen people being talked to on Camera etc - Now I'm not sure what they had done or whether it was grounds for what happened but for me, asking a polite question to a police officer is not a criminal offence and had I been a tourist etc I'd have received a polite answer ...

I was treated that way because I was a football fan and we are wrongly assumed to be criminals etc ...

I know for a fact that the officer from WYP who issued me with the S27, and who aggressively pushed me and used unreasonable force after I complied with all his requests, and the direction to leave has done so unjustly.

(Just for the record, we're of the belief that he did this to provoke a reaction from me, so he could arrest me and hence justify his decision to give me the S27).

More so, this officer will never ever have expected any repercussions from this - not least me following it up so persistantly.

He's now got to go through a load of rubbish so that WYP can reply, and they've already sent countless letters regarding this case to both me, my MP and the IPCC. What's more is that there failure to record the complaint under the Police Reform Act is quite an embarassment for them, because I appealed and they lost.

Being a lone voice in *this* scenario is quite acceptable for me, because the next time WYP and in particular that officer is on duty in Leeds and dealing with some normal football fans like me, he might think twice for doing what he's doing on the basis that he might give a S27 to another persistant little phucker who's going not just going to accept it.

PP ... x

degsyspesh Posted on 17/11/2011 09:03
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

FFS - Get over yourself.

I don't know that nobody else complained - hence my use of the expression "as far as I know". Sorry if that was confusing.

Equally I didn't say that you shouldn't have complained - just that it much harder to get anywhere complaining as a lone voice as opposed to if you were backed up by others making similar complaints or at least corroborating your version of events.

As far as "repercussions" for the officer go - this isn't another Rodney King video. Do you think the officer in question really gives a f'ck? At most it will mean some paperwork for him, but that is what he would have been doing anyway. He will undoubtedly be backed up by his WYP colleagues and it his his/their word against yours. The simple truth is that even if your complaint is upheld (and I repeat that I hope it is) it is not going to result in any disciplinary action for the officer.

goanmad Posted on 17/11/2011 09:41
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good luck PP Jonny I YOUR A FIRST CLASS DICK

zzzzz Posted on 17/11/2011 09:49
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"As far as "repercussions" for the officer go - this isn't another Rodney King video." [:D]

jimmy_james Posted on 17/11/2011 10:02
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Do you think you will give the West Yorks away events a wide berth from now on?

PinkPonce Posted on 17/11/2011 11:51
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Yes, I do think the officer in question will give a phuck Degsy - Simply because he has not followed guidelines for the issue of a S27 and this has been pointed out in our first letter ...

The IPCC's response also highlights it's misuse in regards to the timescale for exclusion from Leeds ...

So whilst on one hand I appreciate what you're saying, on the other, I do understand that there's potential ramifications for him / WYP as a force over issuing S27's like this ...

That's why I'm saying that as a lone voice I believe I will get somewhere, in terms of my case, AND in terms of other people ...

I'll never ever know whether the effects of this case will stop that officer from issuing another S27 to someone for no reason, but I'd like to think it would - hence it's been a success ...

I don't believe he will be disciplined - That's not what my aim is here. But I do believe that by persuing this, it'll happen a lot less in future ...

I might be a 'lone voice' as far as this case is concerned, but not overall with the amount of success the FSF has and is having on other cases ...

PP ... x

PinkPonce Posted on 17/11/2011 11:53
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

PS: Thank you goanmad, and jimmy no of course not ...

PP ... x

Bobby_Braithwaite Posted on 17/11/2011 13:07
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"I'll never ever know whether the effects of this case will stop that officer from issuing another S27 to someone for no reason, but I'd like to think it would - hence it's been a success ..."

1. It'll probably encourage him to arrest people instead.

2.How can you desribe it as a success until you know what has happened or what the outcome is?


PinkPonce Posted on 17/11/2011 13:11
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1) How can you arrest someone when they haven't done anything - He would leave himself open to more vigarous complaints.

2) Well it's already had some success given that the IPCC have upheld my complaint. But granted, once all this is sorted, I'd HOPE that it's been a success.

PP ... x

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 17/11/2011 13:12
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PP....keep it going [^]

PinkPonce Posted on 17/11/2011 13:14
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Will do Corcaigh [^]

PP ... x

PinkPonce Posted on 28/11/2011 09:29
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Email expected hopefully this week confirming when the formal investigation should hopefully be complete.

Have also received some interesting information from somebody close to a witness, who is in a position of influence, who stated that the S27 was 'ridiculous'. Can't say too much on this one at the moment though.

PP ... x

PinkPonce Posted on 30/11/2011 16:45
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I'm only hoofing this so it avoids the cull, as they're trying to fix the server issues ...

The threads used to go back a year, now they only go back a few weeks [:D]

Stay tuned [^]

PP ... x

PinkPonce Posted on 06/12/2011 15:52
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Nothing to report as yet [8)]

PP ... x

Torino Posted on 06/12/2011 15:57
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Keep us updated[8D]

PinkPonce Posted on 06/12/2011 16:01
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Will do Torino - Just don't want it to get deleted by Rob [:D]

PP ... x

jimmy_james Posted on 09/12/2011 09:47
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"Email expected hopefully this week confirming when the formal investigation should hopefully be complete."[Sic]

Have you been approached by men in dark suits with an Official Secrets Act notice!


xxlshirts_fit_all Posted on 21/12/2011 23:58
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Has he been locked up[?]

PinkPonce Posted on 23/01/2012 18:54
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May have some news soon. Best behaviour on Sunday lads [:D] ...

PP ... x

fridaynighttipple Posted on 23/01/2012 19:15
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you not going poncey?

PinkPonce Posted on 23/01/2012 19:23
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Yeah [^]

Getting the 11:30 I think - might see you in Isaacs about 10:30 ...

PP ... x

fridaynighttipple Posted on 23/01/2012 19:24
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you sure will[^]

PinkPonce Posted on 23/01/2012 19:27
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Point yourself out this time or I'll set the midget crew loose [:D]

PP ... x

fridaynighttipple Posted on 23/01/2012 19:54
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Ha ha are they in full attendence or are most of them still on a ban.

PinkPonce Posted on 23/01/2012 20:03
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Fair few on a ban still - we've got some newcomers taking their place [:D]

Got a big crew of midgets out for this one [:D]

PP ... x

PinkPonce Posted on 24/01/2012 11:41
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*Update 24/01/2012

Email exchange between myself and the Professional Standards Department (PSD) Detective Inspector for West Yorkshire Police (WYP).

PSD WYP to PP 19/12/11:

The investigation is contiuning.
PSD have the CCTV footage to review.
PSD are awaiting the account from PC Swales.
PSD will be requesting the other officers accounts in the near future.

PSD WYP to PP 13/01/12:

The investigation is continuing.
PSD have encountered a problem with the video footage and have, to date, been unable to review, but are seeking a solution.
At such time they request a description of myself, and what I was wearing along with a Photograph.
PSD have received PC Swales account of his knowledge and involvement.
PSD are awaiting the responses from the other officers.

PP to PSD WYP 24/01/12:

Have the PSD sought a solution to the problematic CCTV footage.
At such point I will be happy to provide the requested information.
I would like a copy of the footage.
I can provide a map of where the direction to leave was issued.
I would like a copy of PC Swales statement.

[^]

PP ... x

fatharrywhite Posted on 24/01/2012 11:52
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do you not realise that no one gives a XXXXXX?

PinkPonce Posted on 24/01/2012 11:55
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I think people do though, Harry and that's the difference [^]

You obviously care enough to respond, telling us how much you don't ...

If I see a thread on the front page on trains, religion, or anything started by you which I don't care about, it remains unopened ...

PP ... x

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 24/01/2012 11:59
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Good luck PP.

KingOfTheTribes Posted on 24/01/2012 12:00
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I'm very interested Ponce. Its about time the police were taken to task on this issue!

COULBYBORO Posted on 24/01/2012 12:01
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Keep it going PP,feck the w@nkers on here.[^]
Watch yourself on Sunday,they all stick together.

PinkPonce Posted on 24/01/2012 12:03
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Cheers lads - Don't worry I will ... I'll be on soft drinks [8)] so they can't issue an Section 27 unless I've had a drink [:D][^]

PP ... x

lee1986 Posted on 24/01/2012 12:06
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Full credit to you PP..... Mr Swales won't be liking this as theres already investigations going on in relation to him and his department! [^]

red_shamrock Posted on 24/01/2012 12:07
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Picked on the wrong bloke this time GOPL.

MarlonD Posted on 24/01/2012 12:09
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Now there's a surprise, a problem with the cctv footage.

[cr]

deganya Posted on 24/01/2012 12:09
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I think the majority of football supporters do support you PP. Keep it going!!

skiprat Posted on 24/01/2012 12:11
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"do you not realise that no one gives a XXXXXX?"

I love these type of responses, from someone who obviously doesn't give that much of a XXXXXX that they not only read the update but also respond.

[:D]

PinkPonce Posted on 24/01/2012 12:14
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Marlon [:D]

Thanks again. To be honest, with PC Swales, on the day I didn't have one problem with him whatsoever and he was fully behind me, and in agreement that what had happened was not right - except he couldn't assist because it was 'outside of his jurisdiction' and therefore at the call of the WYP Officer in charge of the operation.

My later dealings with him via letter have not been exactly enjoyable, but that again is not down to him individually, but down to the fact that after a few nothing letters he finally advised that they HAD stored my details on the Football Intelligence Database.

That means that my 'file' has probably been distributed to Northumbria Police in anticipation of this weekends game, because I'm a potential 'Risk Supporter'.

I'm hopeful however that his statement to West Yorkshire Police represent his actual feelings on the situation, and those that he told me verbally in the minutes after the Section 27, and those that he has told other people since.

PP ... x

nor_mate Posted on 24/01/2012 12:29
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a problem with the CCTV footage ffs, good one.

keep it going Poncey lad. [^]

skiprat Posted on 24/01/2012 12:38
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The problem being it not showing any incriminating evidence.

The_same_as_before Posted on 24/01/2012 12:50
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I forgot who started this thread, but how anyone can waste 4 minutes of thier life on this is beyond me.

Do something better with your time and watch Dave.

ccole Posted on 24/01/2012 12:54
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"Mr Swales won't be liking this as theres already investigations going on in relation to him and his department"


Whats the story with that?[?]


Keep going PP[^]

ron_manager Posted on 24/01/2012 12:55
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Go on PP, give 'em it[^]

PinkPonce Posted on 24/01/2012 12:56
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TSAB - I'm assuming you meant 4 months of my life, rather than minutes ...

For the record, how much time do you actually think I've spent on this, or do you believe that it's been something I've been involved with on a daily basis since my initial complaint?

PP ... x

The_same_as_before Posted on 24/01/2012 12:58
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no I meant 4 minutes.


PinkPonce Posted on 24/01/2012 13:05
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[:D] So you're posting on a thread about people wasting time reading it ...

PP ... x

The_same_as_before Posted on 24/01/2012 13:09
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True, I quite like the thread.

I have spent over well ove 40 years watching MFC all over the country, and have seen utter mayhem, police knocking three sheets of shoite out of lads and visa versa, I cannot remember one lad from the 70's 80's and 90's who gave a shoite and cried like a baby.

I blame Sky and CTTV.

jimmy_james Posted on 24/01/2012 13:11
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I still think you are a crim!

The police have you on record!

They will have your picture in a montage of KNOWN section 27 trouble makers.

If you were innocent the police would not do this.

PinkPonce Posted on 24/01/2012 13:13
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It was because they didn't stand up to what happened to them (justified or not) that has lead to this kind of thing being allowed to happen ...

If you went to Leeds on that day, spent upwards of say £60 just on ticket and travel, and we're told to leave the city for no reason whatsoever, forced to miss the game, and subsequently be classed as a risk supporter with the potential of a football banning order hanging over you IF this goes unchallenged, would you take issue with it or give it a shrug of the shoulders?

PP ... x

The_same_as_before Posted on 24/01/2012 13:15
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nope, i would have got the train home, thought it was a bad day nad gone to the pub.

PinkPonce Posted on 24/01/2012 13:21
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

But what happens when you're hauled in front of the CPS and issued with a 3 year football banning order, based on fabricated nonsence including statements that you were intent on causing trouble at the Leeds v Middlesbrough game and hence received a S27 Direction to Leave?

Would you plead innocence, or would you just accept the banning order?

PP ... x

The_same_as_before Posted on 24/01/2012 13:22
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Having watched Forest and Coventry away and the last 4 home games; relieved.

PinkPonce Posted on 24/01/2012 13:23
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Any chance of a proper answer or are you playing Speckyget for the afternoon?

PP ... x

The_same_as_before Posted on 24/01/2012 13:29
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

On the record, i would have waited for the court case, asked for their evidence then and waited for the judge to tell them not to be daft.

I propably got to court for various reason three times a year, the CPS would have been laughed out of court.

But, it would have not got that far, I would have went home.

MightyDuck Posted on 24/01/2012 13:34
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

stick to your guns PP.

if it had happened to me, i hope id have the balls to do what you're doing.

lee1986 Posted on 24/01/2012 13:42
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

ccole- From what i am lead to believe there is a big investigation into the way supporters having been getting banned, especially with regard to the ban been due to "association"......

They had been storing up lots of little video clips of individuals, and then when bringing them in showing them the clips and illustrating how they had been present at numerous events of trouble whether participating or not....

The big problem is that apparently by law they are not allowed to keep the footage, unless it is acted on at the time ie. pulling the individuals in and questioning them about the events (on the day or in the near future, and not when they've collected numerous clips of video), if not done then the clips were meant to be deleted/disregarded, but this was not done!

Hope that all makes sense....

PinkPonce Posted on 24/01/2012 13:45
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

'On the record, i would have waited for the court case, asked for their evidence then and waited for the judge to tell them not to be daft.

I propably got to court for various reason three times a year, the CPS would have been laughed out of court.'

You're SO naive Blot, it's frightening ...

You do NOT have to have committed any kind of offence to receive a football banning order. There are countless cases that have not been 'laughed out of court' ...

There will be photographs of you talking to a police officer, and in your file it will be detailed that you were acting aggressively and being confrontational. These photos possibly go back to various away games where you attended where there was trouble (regardless of your involvement).

There will be photo's of you with someone possibly who has already been subject of a banning order and you will be banned through 'association' with the photos and in my case, the Section 27 just used to emphasise the fact that you're a risk supporter.

To give you an example of being banned by association - a lad I know was banned on the basis that he was captured drinking in Isaac Wilsons with someone who was banned. He was subsequently issued a banning order by association.

Another example is a friend of mine from the same circle who has been banned despite there being no evidence in his 'file' (which I've read) which states that he's actually been caught fighting.

There was footage of him before the Leeds home game last season in the town centre, drinking. Then on the next page, there was a high CCTV shot of the trouble in the town after the match, of which it didn't actually state that he was present. Finally, there was a picture of a Leeds fan who suffered head injuries, all intent on suggesting that because this person was in the town before the match and he is known to others who have been banned, he must have been involved in the trouble - despite there being no photo or anything, and depsite the fact that he was not involved in it. This wasn't laughed out of court - He's banned.

The fact that you think you're untouchable in terribly naive.

The whole reason for me challenging this is to stop anything to do with this S27 being used at any point in the future with regards to my attendance at football games.

I am not a football hooligan, I am just a young(ish) professional with a penchant for a complaints letter, and a decent understanding (now) of the rules relating to a direction to leave who happens to like attending a football match.

If my actions, and the subsequent IPCC decision on upholding my complaint, stops the two officers from WYP doing what they did to me to another fan who visits Leeds (whatever the team they support) then it'll be worthwhile.

In the meantime, the amount of documentation, correspondence and hopefully successful conclusion of this investigation will stop this issue ever becoming more serious by means of a banning order.

PP ... x

ollydog Posted on 24/01/2012 13:45
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Difference between 70s,80s ,90s and now is CCTV footage and database.PP is having now to prove his innocence rather than police proving his guilt.do you want judge Dredd policing your streets cos this is the thin end of a ...kin huge wedge

The_same_as_before Posted on 24/01/2012 13:55
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Total attendance in excess of 37 million at regulated football matches. The total number of arrests represents less than 0.01% of all spectators, or 1 arrest for every 12,249 spectators.


Are you sure you are telling us the truth about your banning order?

PinkPonce Posted on 24/01/2012 13:57
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Are you just ignoring the facts in my post above.

Regardless, You don't need to have ever been arrested to receive a Football Banning Order.

Possiblity of a response now?

PP ... x

The_same_as_before Posted on 24/01/2012 14:06
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Pinky, I think I did respond to you. You called me niave and something else I cannot be bothered to reread.

I have a feeling that you over value yourself, I have no idea why you got in the position you did, but I was XXXXXXed on Saturday as were most i went with, no-one that i saw was bothered by the police.


Sometimes in life you shut up, for some reason as a young professional person you have not learnt that.

skiprat Posted on 24/01/2012 14:13
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

I don't know what's worse, the fact that you've spent more than 4 minutes on this "waste of a life" thread or your ridiculous responses.

If HE wants to clear HIS name then why should anyone else be bothered? As I said about 200 posts up, if this was anyone else on the board then he'd be getting credit, but because it's Ponce he gets grief for being told to leave a city and not go to a match for doing nothing wrong.

Just because you'd be a lazy chunt and just shrug it off doesn't mean that's the right response, why should we as fans be treat like criminals for wanting to go and watch football FFS.

oooooo Posted on 24/01/2012 14:16
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

"You called me niave and something else I cannot be bothered to reread."

Ignorant is the word.

Blot, no-one is ever going to seriously engage you in debate if you simply say "too long; didn't read". It just makes you look like a buffoon.

PinkPonce Posted on 24/01/2012 14:28
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Is it that you conveniently can't be bothered to reread it on the basis that you've got nothing to come back with?

As for Saturday, I suggest that there was no bother between you and the police because it was Coventry City rather than Leeds United, and you weren't baracaded within a public house and allowed to roam freely to the match as you please ...

No shame in admitting you've made a foolish comment, I'd respect you more if you actually accepted you were wrong rather than playing the 'I don't actually care' card!

PP ... x

markw_21 Posted on 24/01/2012 14:34
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

"That means that my 'file' has probably been distributed to Northumbria Police in anticipation of this weekends game, because I'm a potential 'Risk Supporter'."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd assume they'll have bigger problems than you PP; lets be honest, they will have seen footage of you in Leeds. Knowing you are innocent, beware not to set your lip up to any of Northumbrias' finest!!

oooooo Posted on 24/01/2012 14:34
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Are you going to be at Sunderland, pp? There'll be about 50 XXXXXXing laser dots roaming all over your head ffs [:D]

PinkPonce Posted on 24/01/2012 14:36
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Yes, I'm going Trod [:D] ...

PP ... x

The_same_as_before Posted on 24/01/2012 14:47
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Foolishness is an opinion not a FACT. As for being locked into a pub as all hell breaks loose, you have no idea.

But it seems the youth of today are litigious, sobeit. I am from a different era.

Incidentally beware you have Skiprat on your side.

jimmy_james Posted on 24/01/2012 14:52
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Did the mounted section of WYP provide cover the last time we went to the SOL?

Will any WYP helpers be there?

If so they might be out to get more evidence on you after the complaint!

skiprat Posted on 24/01/2012 15:01
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

"Incidentally beware you have Skiprat on your side."

hahahahaha

[:X][:X][:X][:X]

PinkPonce Posted on 24/01/2012 15:35
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

'Foolishness is an opinion not a FACT'

Foolishness? I've posted facts. You started going on about arrests, I corrected you on that, and now you're trying to worm out of it ...

PP ... x

xxlshirts_fit_all Posted on 24/01/2012 15:45
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

i wonder how many more minutes it took to write your responses to a thread in which you wouldnt waste 4mins?[rle]

fatharry kept quiet too!

Keep up the good work pink[^]


PinkPonce Posted on 24/01/2012 15:50
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

[:D]

I'd like to say another hello to FatHarry - Coooey, we know you're watching [^]

PP ... x

EpifannyProudfoot Posted on 24/01/2012 16:01
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Haveing taken the time to read through this thread I wish I hadn't bothered. Gilty fool.

PinkPonce Posted on 24/01/2012 16:46
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

[8)]

PP ... x

Starbuck Posted on 24/01/2012 18:34
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"I am just a young(ish) professional "

I had some sympathy for you until I read that part. Another QS with delusions of grandeur over their role in life.

Anyway, good luck with trying to take on a Police Force.

Jeremy_Clarkson Posted on 24/01/2012 19:11
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Barry George FFS havent you been locked up yet?????[8D]

I thought West Yorkshire's finest had spotted you and not let you in? For the love of God leave it you attention seeking fanny [:D]

Pauluka Posted on 24/01/2012 19:24
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Bless the retarded Clarkson

PinkPonce Posted on 24/01/2012 19:31
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

What delusions of grandeur, Starbuck?

Jeremy, your crack is absolutely abysmal.

PP ... x

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 24/01/2012 19:39
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Fair play if you can be arsed to spend so much time on your crusade PP, you have far more free time than me, but I'm pretty sure that you'll be left disappointed by the resolution to all this.

PinkPonce Posted on 24/01/2012 19:47
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Jonny, we've conversed on this thread before, but seriously, how much time do you actually think I've spent on this?

I also don't understand why you maintain that I'll be disappointed. I can't lose overall.

WYP either admit they were wrong OR if worst comes to worse and they don't then I've potentially stopped this case being used against me in a football banning order due to the correspondence etc.

That said, I think the fact that the IPCC upheld it means that I am hopeful for a satisfactory conclusion.

PP ... x

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 24/01/2012 19:53
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

The IPPC haven't upheld anything, the complaint hasn't been resolved yet.

If you don't get your own way have you thought of going on hunger strike?

ClaireSmith Posted on 24/01/2012 20:02
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Or a vow of silence ?

PinkPonce Posted on 24/01/2012 20:06
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

The IPCC have upheld my original complaint as WYP should have recorded it but decided not to. There's a reason they didn't. I have the letter from the IPCC and the email from WYP stating this as well.

This isn't about getting my own way. What happened was wrong, and it could have quite easily been you.

Or you too Claire - If you actually went to games instead of pretending to be a woman on the Internet.

PP ... x

ClaireSmith Posted on 24/01/2012 20:08
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Zzzzz....

You were done for being a boring t*t end. You should be happy they didn't add 250 counts of being a big girls blouse to the charge sheet.


PinkPonce Posted on 24/01/2012 20:10
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Stick to goading buddy and Anthony Walker, cos you're out of your depth 'pet' ...

PP ... x

xxlshirts_fit_all Posted on 24/01/2012 20:12
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theres nothing more boring than reading a post on a thread that whinges about how boring that thread or its poster is![rle]

if those that were bored of this thread or didnt see the point of it or just posted to comment on PPs attention seeking traits didnt actually post on this thread it would be a lot more interesting, and probably a 5th of the size[ref]

ClaireSmith Posted on 24/01/2012 20:15
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

"Pet" [:D]

You'll be adding "jog on" next - now you're all hard and that.

Pet me you useless tw*t and WYP will be the least of your problems fat lad !

Pauluka Posted on 24/01/2012 20:19
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

There was a time when I wanted to rattle you Claire. Think you are too rough for me now

Shame

PinkPonce Posted on 24/01/2012 20:20
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Quaking in my boots here pet. Let's hope you don't do something too drastic, like posting Anthony's mobile number or logging in as Clive [sad]

Fùcking díckhead.

PP ... x

Jeremy_Clarkson Posted on 24/01/2012 20:27
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

"You were done for being a boring t*t end. You should be happy they didn't add 250 counts of being a big girls blouse to the charge sheet."[:D][:D][:D]

Ponce is riled funny as fcuk Nob head [^]

Craic restored [:D]

PinkPonce Posted on 24/01/2012 20:29
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

How on earth can you deduce that I'm riled [:D]

Abysmal. Absolutely Abysmal.

PP ... x

EpifannyProudfoot Posted on 24/01/2012 20:31
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Come away PP, that girl is common, has several tattoos and her bush probly smells of wee and tuna.

Jeremy_Clarkson Posted on 24/01/2012 20:38
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"Bless the retarded Clarkson"
Bites...
"6 0 levels A"
"8 A levels A"
BA Honors degree (First class)

I am retarded of course [;)]

Oh Poncey BTW is that the only comeback you have? What an utter tit you are...

I love you though x

JC x

Pauluka Posted on 24/01/2012 20:40
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Yes, yes you are

Jeremy_Clarkson Posted on 24/01/2012 20:55
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Fair enough [:D][^]

PinkPonce Posted on 24/01/2012 20:59
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Jeremy, don't take this personally but can you fùck off to the CBeebies or CITV board and let the grown ups talk, you tedious doyle ...

PP ... x

fridaynighttipple Posted on 24/01/2012 21:07
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Its like he's never been away[:D]

Pauluka Posted on 24/01/2012 21:09
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Wish he had stayed away

PinkPonce Posted on 24/01/2012 21:10
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

[:D]

PP ... x

Jeremy_Clarkson Posted on 24/01/2012 21:17
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fannies [^]

PP Closet homo

Pauluka Bumchum

Go and have a bot boys [8D]

Pauluka Posted on 24/01/2012 21:25
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Jeremy, I really wish you were not quite as dull, I really do. Trust me I don't enjoy engaging with such a boring cooont like yourself

There is always hope though, what with your improving wit [sad]

zzzzz Posted on 24/01/2012 21:56
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

"Zzzzz....

You were done for being a boring t*t end. You should be happy they didn't add 250 counts of being a big girls blouse to the charge sheet."

You can fk right off as well. [^]

PinkPonce Posted on 25/01/2012 10:17
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

*Update 25/01/12

WYP PSD to PP 24/01/12:

In reply to the correspondence indicated yesterday:

The PSD are still working on a solution and have not yet been able to view the CCTV footage.
There will be reference to PC Swales' report within the investigation report thereby providing me with his version of events.
If/When relevant CCTV footage becomes available, normal procedure does not extend to providing copies/

PP to WYP PSD 24/01/12:

Can you possibly advise why normal procedure does not allow me to witness the content of the CCTV footage, should it be recoverable?

WYP PSD to PP 24/01/12:

In relation to the CCTV, I think we should wait and see whether there is any relevant footage available, prior to discussing whether it can be viewed/copied.

[:D][^]

I'm fully entitled to view any CCTV footage or information in relation to this event. If the PSD try and state the reason is for privacy, then as the footage is from a public place, the other people involved have no reasonable right to privacy.

PP ... x

Jeremy_Clarkson Posted on 25/01/2012 11:24
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Boring [rle]

ccole Posted on 25/01/2012 11:30
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

I could be wrong, but as the CCTV footage that you are on is digital data, I think you would be entitled to view that under the freedom of information act, as long as it doesn’t impact on a pending investigation.

Could be corrected though.

Good luck.



PinkPonce Posted on 25/01/2012 11:38
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

[^]

We'll get there eventually ccole - You're allowed to request any information whatsoever they have on you, be it videos, photos etc, I am led to believe ...

PP ... x

oooooo Posted on 25/01/2012 11:49
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Bit of a grey area RE cctv. Yes, it was in a public area but you don't own the footage. You have to request it under Data protection but they aren't going to just give you access to the raw feed, all you'll get is a few stills with anything but you probably blurred out.

You may only see the footage if you are in it but you aren't entitled to see other people in it and they will edit that out.

This is why they appear to be stalling. They need to see if you are on it first, and then someone has to go through the whole lot and make a best of PP showreel.

PinkPonce Posted on 25/01/2012 11:57
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Thanks Trod ...

I've had to provide a description, photographs of myself and today have just sent him some marked up maps of the street the incident occured on in Leeds, with some streetview shots of exactly where I was stood etc ...

They must hate me to be fair though [:D]

PP ... x

zzzzz Posted on 25/01/2012 12:32
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

The tragedy here is not that a lippy juvenile is dragging out another attention seeking episode it's that many many police hours have been and continue to be wasted on a trivial event.

SO now somebody has to sit and trawl through hours of CCTV when they could be out catching villans. FFS and FFS. [sad]

MaggieThatcherRules Posted on 25/01/2012 12:35
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Well Done PP.

Keep it up. You will win this one in the end.

Without fuelling the fire,

"The_same_as_before" comes across as a damaged individual who was picked on at school.

Anyone else get this feel?

On a serious note, The_same_as_before. There's people you can speak to about these kind of issues. There's help out there.

MaggieThatcherRules Posted on 25/01/2012 12:40
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Police out Catching Villans?

[rle]

PinkPonce Posted on 25/01/2012 12:59
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

[:D] Deary me zzzzz ... You don't half spout a load on nonsense don't you ...

If they didn't want to deal with the consequences of things like this, then they shouldn't have given me a S27 in the first instance.

It also might make them think twice next time they go to issue another one unjustly!

PP ... x

Vasily_Rats Posted on 25/01/2012 13:11
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order


"pretending to be a woman on the Internet"

PP in calling someone out for having an Internet "persona" shocker!


Where you been PP?
Mans have been worried about you.
Has Liddle given you permission to post again with certain conditions?

PinkPonce Posted on 25/01/2012 13:16
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Been a busy boy, Vasily and you know me - I'm not one to boast on where I've been etc either ...

Well yeah, after liddle allegedly (didn't) give my mam a warning about me posting, he's finally said I'm allowed again. The Doyle [:D][8)]

PP ... x

Vasily_Rats Posted on 25/01/2012 13:22
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order


[B)] [^] [:D] [pa] [;)]

PinkPonce Posted on 25/01/2012 16:44
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

[:D]

As if he's actually been telling them that he had words with me ma [cr] ...

PP ... x

PinkPonce Posted on 01/02/2012 13:46
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[^] Some info in here about the pub / bus situation ...

PP ... x

PinkPonce Posted on 16/02/2012 11:37
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

*Update 16/02/12

WYP PSD to PP 10/02/12:

Dear PP

Just to update you; A solution to the video/film footage has still not been found - a colleague from the Public Order Training Dept is working on this matter and seeking guidance from WYP IT. I am hopeful I will have the answer when I return from leave on 20.02.12.

This was an update in response to my request to review the footage and his initial response claiming that normal procedure does not extend to providing copies.

My response was to ask why it was not normal procedure, to which WYP didn't answer, only stating 'I think we should wait and see whether there is any relevant footage available, prior to discussing whether it can be reviewed/copied'.

My response to this was that 'I will happily await the conclusion of your colleagues investigation into a solution, and at that point would welcome a discussion on it's visability and your procedures'.

More to come [^]

PP ... x

BillBones Posted on 16/02/2012 13:17
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

I hope you took the apostrophe out of 'it's', where it wasn't needed, and put it in 'colleagues', where it was.

PinkPonce Posted on 16/02/2012 13:32
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

I've just typed that out quickly on here [8)]

PP ... x

BillBones Posted on 16/02/2012 13:37
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

[:D]

Seriously though, fully behind you. To everyone saying 'don't waste police time'. If I'd been made to miss a match unjustly, would I want to inconvenience the police? XXXXXXing damn right.

Emmersons_BrazillianDong Posted on 16/02/2012 13:37
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

zzzz said "SO now somebody has to sit and trawl through hours of CCTV when they could be out catching villans."

No they don't. They have the time, location and description of the individual. From there it will take seconds to locate.

Also do you really think that ordinary police officers are the people who are getting the cctv and that in doing so are being taken away from street policing? if so you are deluded.

I'm no wet liberal but authorities MUST be accountable for their actions. They should be able to provide justification for any enforcement action they take, whether that be via a complaint or by justifying to their senior management if a complaint arises. I beleive that's what does (or should) set a democracy apart from a dictatorship.

Oh and by the way [:o)][:o)][:o)][^]

oooooo Posted on 16/02/2012 13:45
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

I don't really have anything to add but the knowledge that the very existence of this thread winds people up, compels me to pour petrol on those flames. [:D]

BillBones Posted on 16/02/2012 13:47
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

They way some people think this works is unbelievable.

999 - 'Sorry we can't send any officers out to you. They're all dealing with Ponce's S27'.

PinkPonce Posted on 16/02/2012 13:49
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oooooo [:D][^]

PP ... x

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 16/02/2012 13:50
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I'm in agreement with oooooo. [^]

PinkPonce Posted on 16/02/2012 13:55
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EBD, Bill and Viv - Thank you for your continued support [:D]

PP ... x

king_hellfire Posted on 16/02/2012 13:56
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oooooooo. [V]

Unless you're 12

Then [^]

oooooo Posted on 16/02/2012 13:58
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You must have a heart of stone, ffs.

xxlshirts_fit_all Posted on 16/02/2012 14:26
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what you need to do is copy and paste this whole thread over to the CoB site, they willl be interested [:D]

PinkPonce Posted on 16/02/2012 15:00
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[:D] I wish I could, but sadly I'm banned thanks to Ricks index finger [V]

PP ... x

PinkPonce Posted on 17/02/2012 10:31
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Hoof for Rocky10.

No update as yet today [^]

PP ... x

PinkPonce Posted on 20/02/2012 14:36
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

*Update 20/02/12

WYP PSD to PP 10/02/12:

Dear PP

Just to update you; A solution to the video/film footage has still not been found - a colleague from the Public Order Training Dept is working on this matter and seeking guidance from WYP IT. I am hopeful I will have the answer when I return from leave on 20.02.12.

PP to WYP PSD 20/02/12:

Dear WYP PSD,

Many thanks for your most recent update on the 10th February 2012.

I am hopeful that, in your absence on leave, your colleagues have now had some success in finding a solution to the unlikely issues surrounding the CCTV footage?

If not, and given that we're now entering the 7th week since these issues were first identified, and the 16th week of this formal investigation, have you or WYP set a deadline when at which point you will cease seeking a solution to the aforementioned issues?

Further, have you been successful in obtaining the requested statements from all relevant parties involved in my complaint yet, or do these remain outstanding?

It would be appreciated if you could provide an update, along with an indicative date for your first official response to my complaint.

Yours Sincerely,

[^]

PP ... x

Sh0rny Posted on 20/02/2012 15:06
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Surely no one cares sad cnut [:(]

oooooo Posted on 20/02/2012 15:09
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Allow me, PP.

"You cared enough to open this thread and post to it!"

xxlshirts_fit_all Posted on 20/02/2012 15:10
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says the guy who responded to a thread 640 odd posts long! (to say he doesnt care) sadder chunt!![:D]

PinkPonce Posted on 20/02/2012 15:10
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Thanks, agent oooooo [^]

PP ... x

bear66 Posted on 20/02/2012 15:11
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Can someone summarise what's going on?

oooooo Posted on 20/02/2012 15:13
OK. The TRUTH ABOUT the SECTION 27 Order

Ponce could do with updating his OP with that timeline bit he did at the bottom of it!

PinkPonce Posted on 20/02/2012 15:14
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Leave it with me [^]

PP ... x

oooooo Posted on 20/02/2012 15:18
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This thread is now over 1 megabyte long.

Sorry if that silly fact annoys anyone as the thread moves up the top again.

Sh0rny Posted on 20/02/2012 15:18
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It was amusing when it happened 6 months ago but why the thread resurfaces every week is beyond me

PinkPonce Posted on 20/02/2012 15:25
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Updated the first thread now [^] ...

What exactly was amusing about it Shorny, and would I be right in thinking that the reason you found it amusing is now the reason you don't like seeing it - i.e Cos it was me?

oooooo [^] More useless facts would be welcomed.

PP ... x

TMG501 Posted on 20/02/2012 15:28
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Oh for one of those "New Post" buttons that modern forum sites have

Sh0rny Posted on 20/02/2012 15:30
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Ponce I don't know you,I don't want to know you, my point is thread has been done to death

PinkPonce Posted on 20/02/2012 15:32
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How has it been done to death when I hoof it with new information for the people who are actually interested in it.

If something doesn't interest me on the front page then I don't open it - It really is that simple.

PP ... x

tricky1992000 Posted on 20/02/2012 15:39
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can't be arsed reading all that.

onthemap Posted on 20/02/2012 15:44
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For what it's worth Pink, and I know we disagree on most things, I think you should pursue this as far as you possibly can.

If more people stood up for their rights, this bunch of scum we have posing as the upholders of law and order would think twice before screwing peoples lives up.

Look at the guy posting on here last week who had his front door kicked in and has to repair it himself because the police "believed a felon was inside", disgraceful yet it happens everyday.

The police need to be accountable for their actions just like the rest of us.

Keep it up Pinky [^]

PinkPonce Posted on 20/02/2012 15:45
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Exactly! Cheers Mappy I appreciate that mate [^]

PP ... x

oooooo Posted on 20/02/2012 16:01
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I can understand sh0rny not knowing you - hey, I get it. But not *wanting* to know you?

That doesn't sit right with me.

PinkPonce Posted on 20/02/2012 16:02
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One of those statements HAS to be a lie [:D]

PP ... x

halcyon Posted on 20/02/2012 16:03
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4 more posts after this one. [xx(]

PinkPonce Posted on 20/02/2012 16:06
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Update from Amanda at the FSF.

'They're procrastinating' ... 'I've just checked and the original complaint letter was written in August, 6 whole months ago'

Part of the ploy to stop people complaining and simply accept things [V]

PP ... x

oooooo Posted on 20/02/2012 16:52
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Yeah, they are trying to sicken you off.

Is the request for footage etc based under a DPA claim or Freedom of Information. I presume the former?

Something makes me think they will eventually deny it based on cost although I have to hold my hand up and say I've only ever seen this done with FOI.

PinkPonce Posted on 20/02/2012 17:00
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At the moment, we haven't had any further conversations about the footage, UNTIL such a time that they find a solution.

I'm not 100% sure which it is based upon though to be honest. You're allowed to request copies of all information held about you (FoI?) but also because this is part of an overall complaint I have been advised that I am able to review it. WYP have told me initially that it's 'not normal procedure' but when I replied asking why, and why they won't provide a copy, he replied saying we will discuss if we can get an solution to the problematic CCTV.

[^]

PP ... x

newyddion Posted on 20/02/2012 18:32
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a solution for what?

PinkPonce Posted on 20/02/2012 18:37
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They are trying to find a solution to the fact that the CCTV footage they have isn't viewable at the moment.

PP ... x

Nous_serons Posted on 20/02/2012 18:43
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To paraphrase Sh0rny....

Ponce - I don't know you, I don't (necessarily) want to know you (though it might be entertaining [8D]) but I'm definitely interested in seeing how this ends up [^]

If the chunts are bored, best bet is for them not to open the thread I reckon, never mind starting another one

newyddion Posted on 20/02/2012 19:01
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Could I have some clarification on the issues surrounding the CCTV footage?

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 20/02/2012 19:06
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Got to agree with onthemap here, keep it going Pinkerton. Good luck.

PinkPonce Posted on 20/02/2012 19:12
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Thanks Corcaigh and Nous [^]

Newyddion - as yet I don't know what the issues are with the CCTV - only that they've been unable to view it. All detail is in my opening post updates.

PP ... x

skiprat Posted on 20/02/2012 19:13
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Clarification on the CCTV is probably that there is XXXXXX all on it showing PP in a bad light so it's mysteriously disappeared.

PinkPonce Posted on 20/02/2012 19:19
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You can bet your bottom dollar that had I pushed the officer back when he assaulted me, that it'd be in 1080p HD 3D [^]

PP ... x

newyddion Posted on 20/02/2012 19:28
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what conclusion are you hoping to bring to this matter?

PinkPonce Posted on 20/02/2012 19:39
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All questions can be answered by reading the thread [^]

PP ... x

newyddion Posted on 20/02/2012 19:46
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interesting [rle]

PinkPonce Posted on 20/02/2012 19:49
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Some think so [^]

PP ... x

newyddion Posted on 20/02/2012 19:50
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seems like the police have shot themselves in the foot with this one [:o)]

degsyspesh Posted on 20/02/2012 20:03
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PP - I genuinely do hope that you succeed with this - my fear is though that they will just continue to block you with bull5hit in the hope that you'll get bored and go away - and even if you don't I think that they'll eventually turn round and say that they can find no evidence to withdraw the order and try to leave you with nowhere to go.

Oh, and start another thread ffs as it is tedious as f'ck scrolling through 600 messages on a phone to find the latest installment of none progress. But then you know that....![:D]

Good luck [^]

PinkPonce Posted on 20/02/2012 20:05
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Haha cheers Degsy [:D][^]

PP ... x

oooooo Posted on 20/02/2012 20:30
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"You can bet your bottom dollar that had I pushed the officer back when he assaulted me, that it'd be in 1080p HD 3D"

And there'd be a hi-res paparazzi shot of you holding a tripod over your head.

oooooo Posted on 21/02/2012 16:19
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I am *sick* of seeing this at the top of the board. [8)]

PinkPonce Posted on 21/02/2012 16:35
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Can't believe I didn't see your comment last night, and with it the chance to hoof it! [:D]

PP ... x

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 21/02/2012 18:48
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"my fear is though that they will just continue to block you with bull5hit in the hope that you'll get bored"

Why? What have they got to gain by doing this? It's not as if anyone is going to get sacked or PP rewarded a load of compo is it?

I guess the worst case scenario for them is they will apologise.

newyddion Posted on 21/02/2012 18:55
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It seems to be more complex than that

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 21/02/2012 18:56
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In what way?

PinkPonce Posted on 23/02/2012 13:39
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There is a Seminar held by the Football Supporters Federation called 'Watching Football Is Not A Crime' if anyone is interested. I'm thinking of attending.

It's next Thursday evening at 7:00pm at the Etihad Stadium in Manchester.

Amanda has invited me today, and I'm thinking about driving across as I'll be on Teesside on Thursday.

"The event gives fans the chance to question a panel of experts on football-related policing and stewarding issues.

The Panel:

Chair: John Sinnott - BBC Sports Journalist.
Peter Fletcher - Head of Safety at MCFC.
Dr Geoff Pearson - Lecturer in Law at the University of Liverpool.
Chief Supt Mark Roberts, Greater Manchester Police (GMP).
Keiron Walshm - Tuckers Solicitors; Successful in the Section 27 case acting for 58 Stoke City fans.

Questions raised at previous meetings:

Do you think football fans are discriminated against.
Have you experienced 'bubble' matches or been herded in police escorts.
Why are early kick offs thrust upon fans by Police.
Has standing at games caused tension wityh Stewards.
Do you think the use of Section 27 and Football Banning orders is OTT.

The event starts at 7:30pm, two 1 hour sessions with a 15 minute refreshment break in the middle and it should be finished by around 10pm ish.

You have to register before the event - You can do this via email to register@fsf.org.uk

I think I'm gonna go across, not least because of the issues I've had personally, but I think it could be quite interesting. Think it would be particularly interesting for the Red Faction lads.

PP ... x

PinkPonce Posted on 09/03/2012 20:21
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Tonight, on the weekend of the Leeds match, I've just received an email from West Yorkshire Police advising that their investigation into the Section 27 I received AT Leeds in August has now been completed! 7 months of correspondence between WYP, PC Swales, The IPCC, my MP and The FSF and it's done. I can't wait to read it! x

Have a good weekend!

PP ... x