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Ian_Bairds_Ears Posted on 05/08/2011 18:12
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

[^]Yes



Child Murderers must be terminated.

Murders of on duty police officers

Any Murder where victim was vulnerable i,e elderly,physically impaired,mentally impaired and was targetted for that reason.

Nothing less than Muder though..All other offences such as Wounding,Rape Robbery should be dealt with by the courts with their "harsh" sentencing powers.

[|)]

HarryVegas Posted on 05/08/2011 18:14
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

No [V]

borobuddah Posted on 05/08/2011 18:14
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Neither in principle nor practice. No.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 05/08/2011 18:15
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

No it's barbaric.

We grew out of this type of thing in the 60's. The nation is now so corrupt that some want to step back 50 years.

Grow up and look at the real cause of society's ills.

ThumbSprain Posted on 05/08/2011 18:15
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

A thousand times no. [V]
Hell, death row in the US costs a fortune and has an average waiting time of over 10 years due to appeals. Appalling waste of money.
Is one innocent person wrongly convicted worth a hundred dead murderers?
Etc.

Emmersons_BrazillianDong Posted on 05/08/2011 18:17
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

No, no, no.

If it's my family though, I'll do it myself.

Ian_Bairds_Ears Posted on 05/08/2011 18:19
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Thumb sprain and others...i clearly take your point about a wrongly convicted person...but....we need to balance that against the deterrent factor and lives potentially saved by the sentence of Death being a possibility.?

Therfore people deciding thats its not worth dying for and deciding to do something a little less fatal.

Just a thought and i realise this polarises opinion massively but its time we debated the topic fully on here...

[^]

FrozenHorse Posted on 05/08/2011 18:19
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

No.

SocraTees3 Posted on 05/08/2011 18:19
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

[V] No

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 05/08/2011 18:20
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

'we need to balance that against the deterrent factor'

There isn't a deterrent factor.

Ian_Bairds_Ears Posted on 05/08/2011 18:21
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

7 against and one for pretty quickly which seems to buck the perceived national trend/online petition.


Ian_Bairds_Ears Posted on 05/08/2011 18:22
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

"There isn't a deterrent factor"

Corcaigh..why do you say that...how can we know until its actively passed as a genuine sentencing option.

ExiledInBolton Posted on 05/08/2011 18:32
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

No.

If it was a deterrent, no-one would ever have been hung.

Ian_Bairds_Ears Posted on 05/08/2011 18:36
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

a deterrent wont ever stop totally those committed/not caring for their actions...

But it may do as the word suggests..deter...a few..maybe more than a few.

littlejimmy Posted on 05/08/2011 18:37
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

It patently doesn't have a deterrent effect, as demonstrated in the US.

Resounding no.

Emmersons_BrazillianDong Posted on 05/08/2011 18:39
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

I'm always surprised to see people's genuine response to a matter rather than the assumed thought of the public at large.

Having said that I think it's fair to say that the general public are thick as fcuk [^]

SocraTees3 Posted on 05/08/2011 18:41
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

How do you measure if X number of executions deterred y number of potential murders?? Difficult one. I think as CTC said its barbaric

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 05/08/2011 18:42
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

'Corcaigh..why do you say that'

I'm working in the State that executes the most people yet they have a murder almost every day in the city. Not a deterrent.

Bill_Leather Posted on 05/08/2011 18:57
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

'7 against and one for pretty quickly which seems to buck the perceived national trend/online petition.'

The online petition is not a measurement of anything in terms of comparing for/against. So it/s a load of ballcocks for you to imply otherwise.

The perceived national trend - which one is that, the one identified by the Mail, the Standard? There is no research to cite here.

But we do know that if you ask people questions about sentencing in more concrete, less abstract terms (e.g. relate the question to someone they know such as a neighbour) they are a lot less harsh in their views of what should be done with offenders then is generally reported by the press.




bblf Posted on 05/08/2011 18:58
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

A reounding YES from me.

Dave_ Posted on 05/08/2011 19:00
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

"the deterrent factor"

How's that working out in America?

Sea_Harrier Posted on 05/08/2011 19:02
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

A great big YES for me.

Providing that the process can be reversed if it's found that the accused is innocent after all.

There has been far too many mistakes, throughout history.

TeessideCleveland Posted on 05/08/2011 19:02
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

No

I don't think it's a deterrant
I think it satisfies a lust for vengeace

The Kiszcko case shows why it should never be brpught back
The real killer - Castree - would never have been caught and an innocent man hanged if we'd had it in 1975

ThumbSprain Posted on 05/08/2011 19:17
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

I think we should freeze the worst criminals, and one good cop, who does'nt play by the rules in case they get out.....

paulmboro Posted on 05/08/2011 19:21
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

"I think we should freeze the worst criminals, and one good cop, who does'nt play by the rules in case they get out....." [:D][^]

Buddy Posted on 05/08/2011 19:24
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

No.

Schizoid_Man Posted on 05/08/2011 19:30
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Capital punishment is horrific. It is no different from the original crime.

redisameancolour Posted on 05/08/2011 19:31
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Bill-Leather very good point mate [^]

Buddy Posted on 05/08/2011 19:31
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

It's probably worse, actually.

LA_Boro Posted on 05/08/2011 19:37
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

not a deterrent for what ?

I'm sure if Rob could implement the death penalty for being a board gobshyte instead of asking pretty please can we just all be nice to each other he would have had a completely different reaction from Gay and Gayer


Schizoid_Man Posted on 05/08/2011 19:39
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

If you believe in capital punishment drag your arse off to Texas. They have a governor who who is looking at the Republican nomination next year who believes that homosexuals are in the same boat as murderers. A man who has been flagged up by the UN because of this. Capital punishment is murder.

flaps Posted on 05/08/2011 19:42
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Don't be daft.

No.

BoroPhil Posted on 05/08/2011 19:43
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

who do you ask to do the killing?

garydee Posted on 05/08/2011 19:43
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

what gives one human being the right to take the life of another hunman being,then walk free from prison after X ammount of years.if someone killed one of my family, i would be prepared to pull the lever or flick the switch.whether or not it's a deterrent is immaterial,if they were dead the wouldn't have the capacity to do it again.just my opinion.

flaps Posted on 05/08/2011 19:44
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

"7 against and one for pretty quickly which seems to buck the perceived national trend/online petition."

So if enough people petitioned online for Sharia Law to be implemented in the UK presumably you'd consider that a 'national trend' too?

Old_Gregg Posted on 05/08/2011 19:47
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Definitely not. It's good to see the prevailing attitude seems to be against this barbarism, despite the Mail/Sun trying to mould public opinion to the lowest common denominator.

ThumbSprain Posted on 05/08/2011 19:51
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

I think a couple of people need to look up the word Rehabilitation. And read a review of the Norwegian prison system and its rates of recidivism. Big words I know guys, but stick with it rather than knee jerking back to the death penalty.

BoroPhil Posted on 05/08/2011 19:59
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

I love the 'well if they killed my wife/sister/dog I'd want them dead' argument, well I probably would as well which is why the families of victims don't decide on the punishment.

Muttley Posted on 05/08/2011 20:00
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Not in my name. No.

redisameancolour Posted on 05/08/2011 20:02
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Rehabilitation ? Laughable [V]

Vena Posted on 05/08/2011 20:26
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Many people deserve to be executed. Many many more can be rehabilitated or will be wrongly convicted.

The system can sort simple problems never mind trusting it with peoples lives.

NO

ThumbSprain Posted on 05/08/2011 20:33
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Missing a 't ? [8)]

aytonboro Posted on 05/08/2011 20:37
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

yes but only for serial killers, mass murderers and child killers.
does anyone think this norwegian bloke deserves to be looked after for the rest of his life after deliberately taking the lives of 70+ young people.

joshie Posted on 05/08/2011 20:45
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Genuinely interested in what people think should happen to people such as huntley,brady and other evil child murderers, if you think the death penalty is not an option.

Do we stick with the current solution of jailing them for the rest of their life at huge cost and keep them in relative comfort?

Is there another alternative?




ThePrisoner Posted on 05/08/2011 20:48
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

"does anyone think this norwegian bloke deserves to be looked after for the rest of his life after deliberately taking the lives of 70+ young people."

He is clearly insane. The death penalty wouldn't have deterred him from doing what he did. Killing him now will achieve what exactly?

Way_Out_West Posted on 05/08/2011 20:52
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

"what gives one human being the right to take the life of another hunman being,then walk free from prison after X ammount of years.if someone killed one of my family, i would be prepared to pull the lever or flick the switch.whether or not it's a deterrent is immaterial,if they were dead the wouldn't have the capacity to do it again.just my opinion."

Defeating your own argument with your first line. Well done.

And of course, no.

Johnson Posted on 05/08/2011 20:59
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

No from me. It just brings the rest of society down to their level. Murder is murder

Anyway decades of prison, for a pedo, rapist or child murderer is going to be a hell of a lot worse than instant death

littlejimmy Posted on 05/08/2011 21:06
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Huntley has attempted suicide, has he not? I doubt he's having a comfortable time in prison somehow. Death would be an easy way out for the likes of him.

istinitboro Posted on 05/08/2011 21:20
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

No'I agree with Johnson.No more Pierreponts, who on a human level was no better than those he sent to their death.

redisameancolour Posted on 05/08/2011 21:22
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Decades in prison be a hell of alot worse than instant death ? You obviously have no idea on the prison system at all

joshie Posted on 05/08/2011 21:23
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Attention seeking suicide attempt that other people have to clean up after.

3 meals a day, warm clean room and bed, use of facilities for learning, exercise, television, radio, newspapers, books etc etc.

I would call that comfortable.




king_hellfire Posted on 05/08/2011 21:30
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Littlejimmy. [^]

That's the point I was gonna raise, mate.

If prison was so cushty why would Fred West, Harold Shipman et al. commit suicide and Ian Huntley, Peter Sutcliffe et al. attempt to commit suicide?

Their freedom has been taken away from them...for life, that, I believe, is the worst punishment for any person.





"Thumb sprain and others...i clearly take your point about a wrongly convicted person...but....we need to balance that against the deterrent factor and lives potentially saved by the sentence of Death being a possibility.?"


Would you be ok for a close relative of yours to be wrongly executed if it meant that lives had potentially been saved thanks to their execution?


Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 05/08/2011 21:32
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

'3 meals a day, warm clean room and bed, use of facilities for learning, exercise, television, radio, newspapers, books etc etc.

I would call that comfortable.'

I'd call it being humane. I have no intention of acting or thinking like a barbarian.

I'll leave that to the usual suspects.




joshie Posted on 05/08/2011 21:34
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Comfortable as well as humane?

CtC do you think the likes of huntleys sole punishment should be the loss of his liberty in your humane society?


Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 05/08/2011 21:42
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

There should be no greater loss.

1finny Posted on 05/08/2011 21:43
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

This is simple - its a no.
It is not a deterrent (read the evidence... people do not believe they will be caught).
You can ge the wrong person (even today).
It is in humane
It satisfies nothing other than revenge.
Apart from that...........

redisameancolour Posted on 05/08/2011 21:44
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Why not give them a few beers on a weekend too to make it slightly more humane.........


FFS

king_hellfire Posted on 05/08/2011 21:44
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Comfortable or not, they will never have their freedom again.

They will have to live the rest of their lives guided by strict rules and the books and tv can be taken from them if they step out of line.



"3 meals a day, warm clean room and bed, use of facilities for learning, exercise, television, radio, newspapers, books etc etc."


I'd rather have my freedom thanks.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 05/08/2011 21:45
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

You're barbaric then?

HarryVegas Posted on 05/08/2011 21:48
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

To those using the terrible Norwegian events as an example of pro death penalty views, maybe you should think of following the example of the Norwegian people themselves and their prime minister, who are dead against it and reacted with great dignity. [|)][^]

EpiphanyProudfoot Posted on 05/08/2011 21:52
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

The 'diminished responsibility' argument can get quite messy.

One or two mistakes were made in the past also.

On the other hand forensic evidence is 100 times better than the days of old....but is it?? Colin Stagg would have been wrongfully executed!

Oooo Posted on 05/08/2011 21:52
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

no NO NO

Angelmatty Posted on 05/08/2011 21:58
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

NO

But we should have standard sentancing such as

Murder - 25yrs
rape - 25yrs
kid stuff - 25yrs
armed robbery - 20yrs

and so forth

Space_Face Posted on 05/08/2011 22:00
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

No

king_hellfire Posted on 05/08/2011 22:05
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

"Murder - 25yrs
rape - 25yrs
kid stuff - 25yrs
armed robbery - 20yrs"


Who would set the standards though?

Going by your sentencing a rapist would be better off hedging his bets and killing his victim. That way she can't report and identify him and if he ever is captured the punishment will be the same anyway.

McGonagall Posted on 05/08/2011 22:08
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

What a relief after weeks of unmitigated bullXXXXXX between two of the board's 'personalities' to read such a civilised and informed debate. This is what makes FMTTM unique.

Angelmatty Posted on 05/08/2011 22:08
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

agree its not perfect but neither is killing someone either then maybe finding out there innocent

king_hellfire Posted on 05/08/2011 22:12
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

I totally agree, mate.


In general, prison sentences need to be harsher.

redisameancolour Posted on 05/08/2011 22:17
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Prisons need to be harsher also..... All this human rights bollix.... FFS... For me they lost thier human rights when they took someones life ..... End of

rufus4 Posted on 05/08/2011 22:28
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

A YES from me for the death penalty.Bring on the do gooders who tell me it's uncivilised and barbaric.Well so is rape and murder especially of defenceless children

robbso Posted on 05/08/2011 22:32
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Hard labour would be an option i would look at,it would kill half the feckers anyway within a year.

boro74 Posted on 05/08/2011 22:32
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

no

BoroPhil Posted on 05/08/2011 22:32
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

who do you ask to do the killing?

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 05/08/2011 22:35
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

"All this human rights bollix"

Jesus wept.


*edit - Oh, and it's 'NO' from me.

Angelmatty Posted on 05/08/2011 22:37
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Look at the prisons in france and italy and learn something by them

redisameancolour Posted on 05/08/2011 22:37
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

What do you want to do with them Viv then ????

gravyboat Posted on 05/08/2011 22:42
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

No.

MKBORO Posted on 05/08/2011 22:43
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes and that is a Yes from me. Oh and in case you think l may be dithering it is a resounding Yes from me.
Not saying it is a deterrent but it will sure prevent some sick fcukers from re offending.
So to sum up from me its a resounding Yes.

redisameancolour Posted on 05/08/2011 22:44
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

So your saying Yes ???

lufbra_boro Posted on 05/08/2011 22:55
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

First of all....it has to be noted all systems are imperfect, so there is no clinical solution within systems were arguments are so subjective.

But......it has to be understood that the primary focus of the criminal justice system is 'public protection'.......so the sentencing for crimes - such as child murderers should be reflective of the need to protect the public in the context of 'justice.......I agree sentencing at times is light.

So here we go.......fundamentally the death penalty will not increase public protection and here is why....

The threshold for conviction is....'beyond reasonable doubt'......

Now as we are all experts......sitting on a jury isn't a role to take lightly and the judicial system is adversarial....so outcomes are dependent on many factors but ultimately on the skills of barristers.

So.....the dcision for jurors isn't always straightforward.....if the decision of guilty would mean a lengthy custodial stretch then it is more likely to get a conviction. If the guilty verdict means death.....that's a difficult decision especially if there are doubts....

So there is a strong argument that the death penalty will lead to acquittals.

As it stands it is difficult to prove beyond reasonable doubt.....the death penalty WILL raise that threshold and lead to less convictions....

There is a fundamental difference between committing a crime a being found guilty for that crime.....the death penalty will mean that more people who have committed a crime will be found not guilty because the death penalty will raise the threshold for being 'guilty'

......this does not protect the public....it might satisfy the moral outrage held against child killers etc....but it doesn't safeguard society from the killers were evidence isn't conclusive and they WILL walk free

At present the acquittal rate for serious crimes lies between. 60-70% in most rates......the death penalty will increase this.....and being acquitted may in the eyes of the law mean 'not guilty....it doesn't always mean the accused didn't commit the crime.

So.....it's a NO from me because the death penalty does not work......

Or and before anyone says.....what about when evidence is conclusive.....there have been many miscarriages of justice where when the accused have looked 'guilty as sin when found guilty only for it to be overturned later!

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 05/08/2011 22:57
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

I want to live in a civilised society that holds civilised values. I want my children and grand-children to grow-up in a civilised society that holds civilised values.

You don't achieve a civilised society by killing people. You have to show you're better than that, educate people properly and move civilisation as far away from barbarianism as possible.

Capital punishment doesn't work. It isn't a deterrent. It's hypocritical. It's barbaric. It belongs in the dark ages.

There is no place for such acts in the modern world.

Johnson Posted on 05/08/2011 23:00
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Why all the ......? Sounds like you've not convinced ..... yourself..... yet.........? [:D]

mickgaz Posted on 05/08/2011 23:00
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

what about a death penalty for those already convicted and proven sutcliffe, huntley ,bellfield they deserve it no question

Johnson Posted on 05/08/2011 23:02
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

'You don't achieve a civilised society by killing people.'

Indeed, but see also Afghanistan, Iran, Libya, etc, etc

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 05/08/2011 23:03
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Exactly Johnson. How low has this country stooped.

BoroPhil Posted on 05/08/2011 23:05
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

I'm assuming everyone screaming for state killings has heard of Derek Bentley?


Link: Definitely GUILTY

lufbra_boro Posted on 05/08/2011 23:11
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

That's exactly my point mickgaz....everyone when found guilty appears to be guilty.....but actually some are innocent....therefore it just isn't possible to distinguish the difference for obvious reasons.

So....the threshold for 'beyond reasonable doubt WILL rise and this is to satisfy the burning desire to kill evil people and to kill the few will potentially lead to guilty people being free because evidence is less conclusive. Then potentially they will commit more crimes!

Johnson Posted on 05/08/2011 23:12
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

I would think so, tbf (EDIT: Borophil)

If you don't know the Bentley story, watch this. Never has one short sentance meant so much




Link: Let him have it

slipshod Posted on 05/08/2011 23:12
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

i think its fair to say that not many on this thread are daily mail readers[ref]

Bill_Leather Posted on 05/08/2011 23:19
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Viv - 'you took the words right out of my mouth' (won't recite the next line) [^]

Luf - 'the primary focus of the criminal justice system is 'public protection'

No it's not. Else it would be called the 'public protection system'. Its primary 'focus' (by which i take you to mean purpose) is supposed to be to ensure justice (whatever that might be) is dished out. Having said that, i agree with you broadly, but better - in my mind - to oppose the death penalty on principal grounds rather than on grounds of effectiveness (to reduce serious crimes).

squarewheelbike Posted on 05/08/2011 23:22
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Another big no here. Bentley and Evans are good examples from the days of such barbarity. Had we kept it names like Kiscko, George, Birmingham 6, Guildford 4 would have been added to it.

redwurzel Posted on 05/08/2011 23:41
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

State killings give a message that its ok morally to kill.

As said states like Texas kill lots of convicted murders but its does not stop the high rate of murders in the state.

The UK murder rate was highest in ww2, probably because people with psychopathic tendencies had a very high chance of getting away with it. We had the death penalty.

Hindley contributed to horrendous acts, but she didn't physically kill the children I believe it was Brady (a pychopath).

Johnson Posted on 05/08/2011 23:45
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

To Bill_Leather: I always thought rehabilitation was the most important thing, while ensuring justice. I don't think we get it anywhere near right, but probably better than most countries

joshie Posted on 06/08/2011 00:13
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

What about Graham Norton and Michael Mcintyre, surely even the most 'unbarbaric' draw the line somewhere.

TeessideCleveland Posted on 06/08/2011 00:16
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

'what about a death penalty for those already convicted '

Unfortunately Kiszcko is already dead

At least we could have had a pint in celebration with Castree if Kiszcko had hanged though...

king_hellfire Posted on 06/08/2011 00:53
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

'Not saying it is a deterrent but it will sure prevent some sick fcukers from re offending.'


As will spending the rest of their life in prison.

br14 Posted on 06/08/2011 00:53
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

No.

Don't think it's necessarily barabaric. It can be done humanely.

Just my personal opinion, but I think I'd rather be put to death painlessly than live in a cell with some abusing XXXXXX for the rest of my life. Unless I was the abusing XXXXXX of course.

Imprisoning creatures who appreciate freedom is just as barbaric, which is why there are fewer zoos these days.

Also, there's almost certainly some deterrent effect. Just that some parts of the US are so violent they have loads of murders. And whether the deterrent is more effective than life imprisonment I'm not sure.

Check the stats and you'll find both the highest and lowest murder rates are in states with the death penalty.

There's less likelihood of murder in states that are more affluent.

The reason the death penalty is not a good idea is because the criminal justice systems are simply not efficient enough at finding the truth. The courts are not interested in the truth, they're interested in gaining a conviction - especially if it looks good in the media.


Link: US Murder Stats

MKredleaderOne Posted on 06/08/2011 00:56
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Too many iffy decisions so no.

Old_Gregg Posted on 06/08/2011 01:01
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

I must say it genuinely makes me proud that at a rough guess over 90% of people on here are rightly unwilling to sink to a disgusting and outdated practice.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 06/08/2011 01:03
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

So that's it, a resounding 'no'.

Now can we get on to something more important.

Are there any bones in belly pork?

king_hellfire Posted on 06/08/2011 01:04
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

'Don't think it's necessarily barabaric. It can be done humanely'



From the article in the link...



'It took Angel Nieves Diaz 34 minutes to die from the time the two executioners inserted the IV tubes into each arm and began pumping the chemicals into his body. His eyes widened. His head rolled. He appeared to speak. "It was my observation that he was in pain," Neal Dupree, a lawyer for Diaz and a witness to the execution, wrote in an affidavit. The faint signs of movement from the body strapped to the trolley continued for 24 minutes. "His face was contorted, and he grimaced on several occasions. His Adam's apple bobbed up and down continually, and his jaw was clenched."
Diaz's execution in Florida on December 13 for the murder of the manager of a topless bar was the last in the state for some months to come. Almost immediately after his body was removed from the execution chamber, it became clear that the execution had gone wrong.'


Link: botched lethal injection of killer.

Johnson Posted on 06/08/2011 01:07
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

'Are there any bones in belly pork?'

Is there any meat?

ThumbSprain Posted on 06/08/2011 01:10
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

I'm gonna take the anti Godwin award for - An eye for an eye makes the world blind. Ghandi. And king, sorry, was at work so late to reply, but how do you think I would feel about a family member being wrongly killed by the state when I clearly abhor anyone being killed by the state?

king_hellfire Posted on 06/08/2011 01:14
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

'Thumb sprain and others...i clearly take your point about a wrongly convicted person...but....we need to balance that against the deterrent factor and lives potentially saved by the sentence of Death being a possibility.?'



Do you mean this?

It was a quote from Ian_Baird, I was replying to him.

Aycliffe_Boro Posted on 06/08/2011 01:15
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

typed a hell of a long reply but it disappeared, so to summarise in the words of JRR Tolkein
"many that live deserve death, and many that die deserve life, do you have the power to give it to them.... do not be too quick to deal out death and justice, even the very wise can not see all ends." word wizard mutha fukka

HolgateCorner Posted on 06/08/2011 01:16
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

no, death is too good for them, let them ponder on their guilt every day of their miserable lives.

I'm happy to fund it too.

ThumbSprain Posted on 06/08/2011 01:22
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

And as I said right at the start, death row costs more for the duration than life prisoners, due to appeals and conditions. Read before spouting. And simply, if the death penalty worked so well, why did we give it up? Maybe we grew up, as a people.

king_hellfire Posted on 06/08/2011 01:25
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

'Read before spouting'


You could apply that to yourself judging by your previous post. [:D]

petedreadnought Posted on 06/08/2011 02:13
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

joshie, what is of more concern to you: how prisoners are treated incarcerated, or protecting society from them?

ThumbSprain Posted on 06/08/2011 02:29
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Pick wee bits without answering the questions. Fail mate. [|)]

king_hellfire Posted on 06/08/2011 04:57
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Thumbsprain.

You're confusing me. Were your last two posts aimed at me?

joshie Posted on 06/08/2011 06:02
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Society being protected first obviously.

Sea_Harrier Posted on 06/08/2011 07:04
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Ruth Ellis was the last female to be hanged in the UK for murder. She would not have suffered that fate in modern times as it would have been viewed more as a crime of passion as she was constantly abused by Blakeley.

The incriminating words, “It was obvious that when I shot him I intended to kill him”, were her downfall.

The death penalty sentence is unsound in many cases, irreversible and should never be brought back to statute.


Link: Ruth Ellis Story

Ian_Bairds_Ears Posted on 06/08/2011 21:34
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

Just spent some time reading these replies.

Thought provoking..

Im genuinely surprised that there are so many people who feel its not the way forward.

It is genuinely food for thought with some great quotes etc..Enjoyed the read.

However i still would vote Yes...There are some people who forefit their right to occupy the planet by horrifically depriving another of that same right.

Particularly child killers...

The soham girls is a prime example.

Imagine the terrifying last moments of those 2 little girls done to them by a twisted piece of humanity if you can call him that.

He deserves to die...Snuffed out...never again to taint the face of our planet...

It is simply unbelievable that society will pay something like 500 to 600 thousand pounds to keep Huntley caged for a long time...with his playstation..papers...nice meals..tv etc..makes my stomach turn...


I am happy to refine my original thoughts though... and narrow it down to purely child murderers.

On refelction i think that seems right but great debate none the less.

[smi]

Liamo Posted on 07/08/2011 00:04
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

No

diggerman Posted on 07/08/2011 00:09
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

NO !
It's totally barbaric , and makes "the state" just as bad as the person they kill.

Then , there's the question of people being wrongly convicted...............even one is too many , and therefore wrong.

borobadge Posted on 07/08/2011 00:11
...death penalty yes or no.?

no...of course not.

the_dude_abides Posted on 07/08/2011 00:15
...death penalty yes or no.?

death penalty for what kind of murder

for instance is it alright for a pilot to drop a bomb on an afghan school, but it isnt alrighgt for somebody to kill a smack head burglar whos trying to kill him with a knife

the problem with the death penality is we are all brainwashed into thinking was kind of murder ir alright and what isnt, based around religion and class rules

killing kids because we want oil is ok
killing kids because we are mad isnt

there are many reasons for the death of a human being, and its isnt as black and white as well alll like to think

redwurzel Posted on 07/08/2011 00:26
...death penalty yes or no.?

The UK government legally killed people with the mental age of children in the 1950s.

I think the death penalty can still be used for acts of treason.

plazmuh Posted on 07/08/2011 00:30
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

A big fcuk off from me as well..
NO NO NO Never..
Have we learnt nothing in our lifetimes..
We can never take human life..
And bring our Fcuking soldiers home FFS..
Regards
Plazmuh
[V][V][V]

UAUA Posted on 07/08/2011 09:10
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

"The threshold for conviction is....'beyond reasonable doubt'......"

No it isnt.


keelo Posted on 07/08/2011 09:51
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

He is clearly insane. The death penalty wouldn't have deterred him from doing what he did. Killing him now will achieve what exactly?

well it would save probably 14,000 bowls of breakfast Muesli.

littlejimmy Posted on 07/08/2011 09:58
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

It's a strange argument to point out that prisoners get access to things like TVs and games consoles whilst completely ignoring the fact that first of all they are locked in one place for most of their lives and secondly (especially in the case of the likes of Huntley) their life is made complete hell by other inmates and they live in constant fear.

FartingGnome Posted on 07/08/2011 11:12
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

"Are there any bones in belly pork?"

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

Get Corcaigh to explain the background to that. One of the funniest stories I ever heard.

Oh, and No.


gravyboat Posted on 07/08/2011 13:24
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

It's a punishment only advocated by simpletons.

mooghead Posted on 07/08/2011 13:31
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

What if it was your daughter Huntley murdered?

gravyboat Posted on 07/08/2011 13:36
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

I thought we'd already gone beyond talking about this from an emotive stand-point.

flaps Posted on 07/08/2011 13:37
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

"What if it was your daughter Huntley murdered?"

What has this got to do with anything?

This is often brought up as if it's a meaningful statement. Of course people who suffer personal loss would have an extreme reaction. That doesn't make their reaction right or the basis for the law of the country.


Old_Gregg Posted on 07/08/2011 13:47
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

"This is often brought up as if it's a meaningful statement. Of course people who suffer personal loss would have an extreme reaction. That doesn't make their reaction right or the basis for the law of the country."

Absolutely true. I have no doubt that if (god forbid) a member of someone's family was raped, the reaction would be wanting to kill the perpetrator. Does this mean rape should carry a death sentence?

oooooo Posted on 07/08/2011 14:22
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

As if I'd give the government the power to kill in cold blood. I won't even trust them with a memory stick ffs.

No.

junkyard_angel Posted on 07/08/2011 14:39
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

A no from me also. The argument has been well made above.

ABCD Posted on 07/08/2011 20:45
In principle...death penalty yes or no.?

err
"the crime of intentionally killing a person"

yes for murder, in the literal premeditated sense.

In the oops sense no.