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peterkay Posted on 04/04/2011 17:39
louis theroux america's most hated family

I attend church but this was beyond belief, a bunch of loons[V]

Lethal_Alvizzle Posted on 04/04/2011 17:40
louis theroux america's most hated family

they were some serious fruitloops

HarryVegas Posted on 04/04/2011 17:40
louis theroux america's most hated family

Mentalists [xx(]

B-MAN Posted on 04/04/2011 17:41
louis theroux america's most hated family

They do have some valid points though.

peterkay Posted on 04/04/2011 17:43
louis theroux america's most hated family

They do have some valid points though....please enlighten me with the ones I missed[sad]

zaphod Posted on 04/04/2011 17:45
louis theroux america's most hated family

I think they're more to be pitied than hated.

redlion Posted on 04/04/2011 17:45
louis theroux america's most hated family

Think Fred Phelps whose head of the "church" needs to come out the closet.[:D]

peterkay Posted on 04/04/2011 17:46
louis theroux america's most hated family

the scariest part was how the parents could just shut our their own kids for choosing a differnet way of life, that is very sad indeed.

B-MAN Posted on 04/04/2011 18:01
louis theroux america's most hated family

Don’t get me wrong, their behaviour, picketing funerals and getting kids involved is absoutely disgusting, awful. And for the record I’m not religious myself however in parts I do atleast understand their point, even if I completely disagree with how they try to put it across. For me, if you’re christian and therefore accept the bible as the word of god then what they say about homosexuals etc still stands. I personally cant falthom how if you believe that the bibe is the word of god and believe in it all, and consider yourself a follower why you would happily let the world we live in today shape your beliefs, surely the acceptance by society of things such as homosexuality should not be tolerated. A few quotes below, do you think if these are the words of God that he/she/it is now sat up in heaven thinking “you know what, I quite like those gays, I mean if you can write music like freddie mercury then theyre alright by me”…………
• Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"
• 1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

SidSnot Posted on 04/04/2011 18:06
louis theroux america's most hated family

If the bible is the word of God, then compared to his other acts (such as creating the universe), then he did a really poor job. It's riddled with contradictions.

B-MAN Posted on 04/04/2011 18:08
louis theroux america's most hated family

I've not read it all so difficult to comment but I still stand by the fact that if it is, if that's what you believe the essentially some of what they say is accurate

zaphod Posted on 04/04/2011 18:09
louis theroux america's most hated family

B-MAN, the point is that hatred is condemned by Jesus whatever a person's sin. If you won't love your brother despite his faults, then you really are not following Christ's teachings. It really amazes me when people preach hatred, but claim to be Christians. As our American cousins say, it doesn't compute.

BTW, Jesus said about the woman caught in adultery: "let him who is without sin cast the first stone", thereby cancelling the Mosaic punishment system.

Hemlington_Lad Posted on 04/04/2011 18:10
louis theroux america's most hated family

Bible? I've not read the book but I've seen the film.

HarryVegas Posted on 04/04/2011 18:10
louis theroux america's most hated family

B Man, oh dear where do I start? For a start they consider themselves Christians, in which case the Old Testament was superceded by the New, thus rendering the horrendous Leviticus et al redundant.

However the Bible is absolutely packed with contradictions and orders people to do stuff that they'd quite rightly get locked up for. The God of love wants us all to stone people to death for working on a Sunday does he?

They're ulta right wing nutjobs and worse than the extreme Muslims they profess to hate.

On the other hand, I know an ex Jehovah's Witness who remains cut off from his family because he left the sect (which is what it is). People are scary and given the right (wrong) conditions will believe and do anything.

B-MAN Posted on 04/04/2011 18:11
louis theroux america's most hated family

I'm not talking about Jesus though, I'm talking about God. Maybe Jesus himself was a victim of temptation

Obsolete_of_Charm Posted on 04/04/2011 18:12
louis theroux america's most hated family

• Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"

or....

Chubby Brown, vide 3, Dec 1999 - "One up the bum, no harm done!"

HarryVegas Posted on 04/04/2011 18:14
louis theroux america's most hated family

BM then you believe something different from them. They DO talk about Jesus as God to justify their actions.

B-MAN Posted on 04/04/2011 18:16
louis theroux america's most hated family

I'm not sure which part of the bit where I said I'm not religious, I don't believe it, I disagree with how they behave youve missed?
Ps 1 Corinthians is new testament

SidSnot Posted on 04/04/2011 18:16
louis theroux america's most hated family

I'm not talking about Jesus though, I'm talking about God. Maybe Jesus himself was a victim of temptation

Haven't you heard of the Holy Trinity - three different bodies, one nature and being. Obviously, you need to believe all the other stuff to believe this.

ABCD Posted on 04/04/2011 18:22
louis theroux america's most hated family

"It's riddled with contradictions. "

Apparently it's not but then I've not read it have you snot?

B-MAN Posted on 04/04/2011 18:23
louis theroux america's most hated family

Theyalso say that to give money to the catholic church is to give money to paedophile rapists which may or may not be correct, again, depending on what you believe

king_hellfire Posted on 04/04/2011 18:34
louis theroux america's most hated family

'"It's riddled with contradictions. "

Apparently it's not but then I've not read it have you snot?'




Here's a website for you to have a look at ABCD.



Link: Bible Contradictions

SidSnot Posted on 04/04/2011 18:42
louis theroux america's most hated family

Apparently it's not but then I've not read it have you snot?

Oh yes, too many times... catholic boarding school.

newyddion Posted on 04/04/2011 18:58
louis theroux america's most hated family

how much of it is lost in translation?

peterkay Posted on 04/04/2011 19:11
louis theroux america's most hated family

You cannot take the bible literal as it was written by a man, I actually go to church and believe in God but I do not accept the literal part of the bible as this cult do...how do they explain fossils and dinsoaurs if the earth is only 6, 000 years old?

HarryVegas Posted on 04/04/2011 19:15
louis theroux america's most hated family

Once asked a Jehovah's Witness that - apparently God put them there to test us [:D]

JonMc Posted on 04/04/2011 19:26
louis theroux america's most hated family

'B Man, oh dear where do I start? For a start they consider themselves Christians, in which case the Old Testament was superceded by the New, thus rendering the horrendous Leviticus et al redundant.'

I have to agree harry although the much maligned Leviticvus is merely an insight into how one group of people lived their lives a few thousand years ago. I would argue that Leviticus is no more horrendous than some of the shenanigans going on in ancient Greece.


Anyways, back on topic. Definately right to say that (if you're Christian) ten the message of Christ should be what you aim to live up to and from what I've read the man would have been rallying to the causes of the oppressed and that includes homosexuals. the following is from the sermon on the mount...Jesus's big gig - his Live Aid, if you will.

"‘You have heard that it was said, “An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. But I say to you, Do not resist an evildoer. But if anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also; and if anyone wants to sue you and take your coat, give your cloak as well; and if anyone forces you to go one mile, go also the second mile. Give to everyone who begs from you, and do not refuse anyone who wants to borrow from you.

You have heard that it was said, You shall love your neighbour and hate your enemy. But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you..."

The simple fact of the matter is that this fruit-loop family are all about control - that much was evident from the documentary

In fact they aren't Christians at all. Thay can't be.




tarquin_foxglove Posted on 04/04/2011 19:30
louis theroux america's most hated family

"It's riddled with contradictions... Here's a website for you to have a look at ABCD."

I quite enjoy the humorous take on the Old Testament contradictions done here in reply to the "homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22"


Link: Why Can't I Own a Canadian?

joshie Posted on 04/04/2011 19:40
louis theroux america's most hated family

'The simple fact of the matter is that this fruit-loop family are all about control'

The same could be said of all religions.


HarryVegas Posted on 04/04/2011 19:44
louis theroux america's most hated family

tf [:D] read that one last year - still makes me laugh now [^]

SplendidStuff Posted on 04/04/2011 19:46
louis theroux america's most hated family

missed this, will have to get it watched, sounds like something the missus would love to hear me moan about.

JonMc Posted on 04/04/2011 19:47
louis theroux america's most hated family

Probablys right Joshie. Organised religions anyway.

Jesus is one of the greatest (if not the greatest) antiestablishment figures in history. His message was that priests should be the servants of the masses rather than their yoke. In fact if He came back now He would find that not much had changed in 2000yrs.

Truth is that nobody listened.

HarryVegas Posted on 04/04/2011 19:48
louis theroux america's most hated family

"Blessed are the cheesemakers?!" [:D]

joshie Posted on 04/04/2011 19:53
louis theroux america's most hated family

'In fact they aren't Christians at all. Thay can't be.'

No more so than the holy roman catholic church can be then?

While i think this 'family' are cranks, they are insensitive to other peoples feelings, disgust me with the way they turn up at peoples funerals etc.

As far as i know they havent slaughtered thousands of people for not following their particular doctrine.


Clockweights Posted on 04/04/2011 19:53
louis theroux america's most hated family

I'd sodomise Shirley Phelps

JonMc Posted on 04/04/2011 20:00
louis theroux america's most hated family

Again agreed Joshie.

Being raised a catholic I'm certainly not anti-catholic - I do think they have a vauable role to play...but they still exhert control in the wrong way. The whole idea of Purgatory for example is based on the premise that Jesus failed in His mission. If He died for our sins then why do we need a waiting room while it's decided where our destination should be? Was Jesus's crucifiction not enough? Obviously not.

keelo Posted on 04/04/2011 20:03
louis theroux america's most hated family

Recorded it and just watched it......disturbing...should be a law against brainwashing children.

JonMc Posted on 04/04/2011 20:05
louis theroux america's most hated family

Aye Keelo - but then every kid in the country would grow up supporting ManU. [sad]

keelo Posted on 04/04/2011 20:06
louis theroux america's most hated family

[smi]

Clockweights Posted on 04/04/2011 20:06
louis theroux america's most hated family

I'm going to spitroast Shirley, who else wants a piece of the action.

I should mention that the backdoor is mine, but help yourself to the tender and loose (11 children) vagine

beattsmjk Posted on 04/04/2011 20:07
louis theroux america's most hated family

The Bible is about as believable as anything written by Hans Christian Anderson.

intheplasma Posted on 04/04/2011 20:20
louis theroux america's most hated family

B-MAN

If that list 1 Cor.6:9-10 quotes is Gospel, (pardon the pun)God is going to be a lonely guy when we all depart this life.
It looks pretty much like the vast majority will fail the entrance test,it just about covers everyone.

nathan007 Posted on 04/04/2011 20:24
louis theroux america's most hated family

Relgion where do you start? If it was not for Reg the world would be a more peaceful place. What kind of god inflicts such terrible things on the world he created if their is a god he is a XXXXXX!!!!

number9 Posted on 04/04/2011 21:08
louis theroux america's most hated family

Fundamental Christians are well nuts to be honest and as for

"Once asked a Jehovah's Witness"

No you didn't Harry and no they didn't.

"message of Christ should be what you aim to live up to and from what I've read the man would have been rallying to the causes of the oppressed and that includes homosexuals"

Jesus was a Jew not a christian, and hence would have obeyed the Law Covenant which he did to the letter the law covenant considered homosexuality as unnatural. The Law was a presursor to the Christ which he fullfiled and replaced but if people acctualy read the Bible and made a small atempt to understand it rather than decry it from a position of ignorance they would know that. Col 2:13-23

HarryVegas Posted on 04/04/2011 21:19
louis theroux america's most hated family

number9 - yes I did. I worked with him and his estranged son. I asked the father exactly that and that was his exact reply. In the same, long and detailed, conversation he added for good measure that AIDS was God's proof that they are right about blood transfusions. This took place in a 5 hour car journey and I didn't notice you in the back.

I'd thank you not to call me a liar.

number9 Posted on 04/04/2011 21:25
louis theroux america's most hated family

If he said what you say he said he was a very poorly informed JW. I have been a JW for over 27 years and have NEVER heard a JW spout such drivel. If he was a JW and you were stuck in a car with him for 5 hrs he would have had plenty of time to refute every so called contradiction, I certainly could.

And as for the AIDs thing and blood, another proof that he was and probably remains an ill informed idiot or not a JW at all. JW's not accepting blood has ZERO to do with any so called health benefits that might be gained past present or future.

peterkay Posted on 04/04/2011 21:31
louis theroux america's most hated family

Number 9 why has there been cases when pregnant JW women have refused blood transfusions and lost their lives

number9 Posted on 04/04/2011 21:34
louis theroux america's most hated family

peterkay what has that got to do with harry's post.


peterkay Posted on 04/04/2011 21:37
louis theroux america's most hated family

I am asking a separate question to harry, no issue just a question

number9 Posted on 04/04/2011 21:42
louis theroux america's most hated family

I know 2 people who died from lack of blood, the first was an RTA and considering he had a piece of the M40's crash barrier through his chest and ambulances don't carry blood I doubt that a transfusion would have helped. The second was due to medical negligence. I cannot comment on any other case as I do not know the details hence that would be foolish.


peterkay Posted on 04/04/2011 21:43
louis theroux america's most hated family

Ok

number9 Posted on 04/04/2011 21:44
louis theroux america's most hated family

happy to help.

HarryVegas Posted on 04/04/2011 21:47
louis theroux america's most hated family

n9 - my opinion of the guy in question can't be written here, but he is definitely a long standing JW and knocks doors every weekend. IMHO he needs the faith to prop him up.

boringblock_21 Posted on 04/04/2011 21:59
louis theroux america's most hated family

The 11 year old boy was a bit young to be talking about entering Jordan's pink cave though [:O][:D]

squarewheelbike Posted on 05/04/2011 12:32
louis theroux america's most hated family

Boring[^][:D]

She's got form mind, wasn't Gareth Gates a god fearing innocent young lad till she got her hands on him?

Nero Posted on 05/04/2011 12:46
louis theroux america's most hated family

A load of nut jobs.

How any religion believes "God" created this world is beyond me anyway. Science long ago proved religion to be a load of balls.

If God did exist and was such a high and mighty person then why worship him? He'd surely not insist on that.

The truth is, the bible is a man made fabrication dreamed up when the masses couldn't read and write. They needed a system to keep order and the bible was the perfect one.

All religions are as bad as each other.

Mojo Posted on 05/04/2011 12:53
louis theroux america's most hated family

"They're ulta right wing nutjobs and worse than the extreme Muslims they profess to hate."

Not sure what you mean exactly when you describe them as right wing.

Especially as Fred Phelps stood as a Democrat.

boroarmyret Posted on 05/04/2011 12:53
louis theroux america's most hated family

BMan,

I am a Christian, and has the name suggests I follow Christ. This does not mean I have to follow the Bible literally. Personally I cannot see your connection. There is many Christian denminations who have various points of view on the Bible.

The Phelps are following it literally and that is exactly the problem. Hope this helps you fathom it out a little.

zaphod Posted on 05/04/2011 12:59
louis theroux america's most hated family

The Phelps family are not following the Bible literally; they're following it highly selectively, choosing the bits they like & ignoring the bits that contradict their desired activities. You can reach almost any conclusion you want from the Bible by being similarly selective.

squarewheelbike Posted on 05/04/2011 13:04
louis theroux america's most hated family

The wierdest part for me was the young lad from San Francisco who wanted to join their church! I was shouting at the telly for him to run, run very fast!

TheSmogMonster Posted on 05/04/2011 13:35
louis theroux america's most hated family

"Especially as Fred Phelps stood as a Democrat."

The Democrats are to the right of the Tories, the whole American system is.

He used to be a civil rights lawyer too, doesn't mean he believes in anything like that now.

TheBoy007 Posted on 05/04/2011 13:43
louis theroux america's most hated family

The Phelps are just like any other cult (ie JW's). They draw a line in the sand and cement their position. They then come up with stock answers and counter arguments to back their position. For things their can't answer they used dogmatism and bigotry, like the 'god moves in mysterious ways' answer. They have a list of bible verses that suite their position and will quote them like a parrot upon request.



MawTheMerrier Posted on 05/04/2011 13:44
louis theroux america's most hated family

Anyone who believes that there is some sort of god out there, cannot call this family a 'nutjob' as they differ little in that respect.

Wierd when you look at the Hubble photos of all the billions of galaxies, that people think a bloke created it all. Brainwashed?

TheBoy007 Posted on 05/04/2011 13:46
louis theroux america's most hated family

Number9 what is the answer to Harry's question about Dinosaur bones then? If the universe is 6000 years old were did all these rocks that are millions of years old come from?

squarewheelbike Posted on 05/04/2011 13:47
louis theroux america's most hated family

Maw, not that I'm disagreeing, but why can't this imaginary person in the sky be a woman?

newyddion Posted on 05/04/2011 13:55
louis theroux america's most hated family

Why do they still live in america?

tarquin_foxglove Posted on 05/04/2011 14:04
louis theroux america's most hated family

"The wierdest part for me was the young lad from San Francisco who wanted to join their church! I was shouting at the telly for him to run, run very fast!"

Yeah but there did seem to be quite a few fit young ladies knocking around that weren't being allowed to socialise, let alone marry, outside of the church.

So if you joined, yep you would have to picket funerals and shout hateful untrue things at people but you would have a pretty free run at one of the ladies.

It's all swings & roundabouts...

benpoolie Posted on 05/04/2011 14:23
louis theroux america's most hated family

Interesting that JW's crop up in this discussion of crazy American cults.
As an ex JW I found the similarities between the two pretty scary, not the teachings [although both sects do have mental beliefs] just the behavior,- the expelling/disfellowshipping of memebers and the subsequent treatment thereof, the meetings [the actual halls are very similar in fact, no windows and slogans on the wall], the brainwashed children and emotionally stunted parents.

Add to this the JW's massive hypocrisy and you have a religion that you really want to steer clear from and I heartily recommend that anyone reading this and is in two minds about them takes heed.

benpoolie Posted on 05/04/2011 14:24
louis theroux america's most hated family

"weren't being allowed to socialise, let alone marry, outside of the church."

another thing the Witnesses do.

benpoolie Posted on 05/04/2011 14:32
louis theroux america's most hated family

"Number9 what is the answer to Harry's question about Dinosaur bones then? If the universe is 6000 years old were did all these rocks that are millions of years old come from?"


I've asked no.9 various unanswered questions over the years on this message board, and I find if you touch a nerve he/they will simply not answer your question or avoid it at all costs.

Free thinking is not allowed in that religion.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 05/04/2011 14:33
louis theroux america's most hated family

'God put them there to test us...'

[:D]

mickymacc Posted on 05/04/2011 15:04
louis theroux america's most hated family

I like religious extremists,but I also like religious moderates,but which one is best. . .fight!!.oh,they already do.
Jehovas witness's,as bizzare as the moonies.[8)]
"Religion is the opium of the masses"-K.Marx(I think he came after groucho.)

bear66 Posted on 05/04/2011 15:26
louis theroux america's most hated family

Did you see the anti-religious Tolstoy film The Last Station the other day? Non-religion can be more extreme than religion

peterkay Posted on 05/04/2011 15:44
louis theroux america's most hated family

Wierd when you look at the Hubble photos of all the billions of galaxies, that people think a bloke created it all. Brainwashed?....or is it one day the earth and the whole just turned up one day

TheBoy007 Posted on 05/04/2011 15:46
louis theroux america's most hated family

"Did you see the anti-religious Tolstoy film The Last Station the other day?"

How is it 'anti-religious'?

bear66 Posted on 05/04/2011 15:52
louis theroux america's most hated family

'It' wasn't but 'anti-religious Tolstoy' was - Chertkov was all for a new Tolstoy-religion though

joshie Posted on 05/04/2011 15:54
louis theroux america's most hated family

The 'brainwashing' of the children was no worse than what faith based schools did when I grew up.

Teaching creationism as fact still goes on today.

The catholic church, for example, is just a more successful cult than scientology and equally as plausible.

Although thousands of people have been slaughtered in the name of catholicism so maybe successful isnt the right word.

TheBoy007 Posted on 05/04/2011 16:05
louis theroux america's most hated family

"'It' wasn't but 'anti-religious Tolstoy' was"

He wasn't anti-religious he was an Anarchist Christian. He believed that people shouldn't look to a church or any form of authority for guidance but to their inner self. He believed that being a Christian went hand in hand with being a pacifist.

To be honest i haven't seen the film yet. What was 'extreme' about it

king_hellfire Posted on 05/04/2011 16:07
louis theroux america's most hated family

How do you choose which parts of the bible to believe and not to believe Peterkay?

The moderately religious people are just as hard to fathom as the extremists. They claim that some parts are meant to be taken literally and some aren't but who decides what's what? Is it only the really embarrassing stuff that's not meant to be taken literally? Things like Adam, eve and the talking snake, Moses parting the sea and the killing of all first born children etc?

peterkay Posted on 05/04/2011 16:21
louis theroux america's most hated family

I have my own thoughts on the bible but centrally I believe in a creator ie. God, you choose what you wish to believe in about life and this could be a belief in evolution, muslim, spiritlaists, etc whatever is your cup of tea I just have a different prospective than you about the origin of life[^]

TheBoy007 Posted on 05/04/2011 16:34
louis theroux america's most hated family

"I just have a different prospective than you about the origin of life[^]"

Whats your belief based on?

TheBoy007 Posted on 05/04/2011 16:38
louis theroux america's most hated family

"They claim that some parts are meant to be taken literally and some aren't but who decides what's what?"

Wouldn't you have thought that some sort of appendix would have been put in to tell you whats literal and whats not? To me it seems, as science closes the holes the church comes back with 'well of course its not meant to be taken literally, its a metaphor'. Seems like a cop out to me.

peterkay Posted on 05/04/2011 16:44
louis theroux america's most hated family

theboy - seen as though you asked...."Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that."[^]



intheplasma Posted on 05/04/2011 16:50
louis theroux america's most hated family

"I have been a JW for over 27yrs and have NEVER heard a JW spout such drivel"

All I can say is that you haven't been listening for 27yrs, because when they come to my door, drivel is all they spout.



paulmboro Posted on 05/04/2011 18:54
louis theroux america's most hated family

"All I can say is that you haven't been listening for 27yrs, because when they come to my door, drivel is all they spout." - LOL! [:D]

Just close the door on them.

I used to feel pity when some old dear and a young lass were stood on my door step in the cold trying to hand me leaflets, so I'd let them feel the warmth of my central heating for a moment or two.

Now I let them freeze. [^]

number9 Posted on 05/04/2011 19:05
louis theroux america's most hated family

benpoolie - no you haven't, by the way you punched anyone on the nose latley?

[rle]

HarryVegas Posted on 05/04/2011 19:08
louis theroux america's most hated family

So how ARE dinosaur bones there?

littlejimmy Posted on 05/04/2011 19:11
louis theroux america's most hated family

Number9, what is your take on the whole camel through the eye of the needle thing?


The_King_of_Norton Posted on 05/04/2011 20:02
louis theroux america's most hated family

dinosaur bones were put there by god to test our faith [:P]

HarryVegas Posted on 05/04/2011 20:03
louis theroux america's most hated family

That's what a JW told me [pa]

benpoolie Posted on 05/04/2011 20:04
louis theroux america's most hated family

Nice one no 9, I just won a bet with myself....is that all you can ever say to me? A mistake I made once upon a time which I deeply regret?..... Sheesh.

A mistake, incidentally, that the elders in my then congregation had me attend a meeting and get treat appalling once again... oh well, if it makes you feel better sat on your ivory tower casting judgements whilst simultaneously avoiding difficult questions then so be it.

You have failed to answer my questions on the witnesses hypocritical 10 year relationship with the UN, my question about the correct year of the destruction of Jerusalem, C T Russells allegded membership with the masons and now this gentlemans query about dinosaurs.

Feel free to answer at any time, hopefully without sly digs about my personal life.

benpoolie Posted on 05/04/2011 20:14
louis theroux america's most hated family

Anyways, so what if I punched someone?
On two separate occasions I have been threatened with physical violence by Jehovah's Witnesses (of all people) because A. They have no answer to my questions. And B. They feel threatened by someone who has left "the truth" and made a life for themselves in the "the world" (hmmm, isn't that what the crazies in Therouxs program called life outside of their mental world too? Why, yes, yes it is...another similarity.) something that the watchtower society say is impossible.



Gah! That bliddy religion....!!!

HarryVegas Posted on 05/04/2011 20:20
louis theroux america's most hated family

Ben the lad I whose father I mentioned earlier sounds very similar to you. He was indoctrinated from a very early age and didn't finally get away til his 30s. Went thru a lot of sh1t in the process but ok now. Lost his family though [V]

When he'd finally left it all came out about both his parents shagging around for years whilst still married, whilst preaching about others' shortcomings. A horrible, heartless, judgemental and cruel cult IMHO.

squarewheelbike Posted on 05/04/2011 20:29
louis theroux america's most hated family

Tarquin, re the lad from San Francisco, I don't think for one minute had had designs on any of those girls[:O]

benpoolie Posted on 05/04/2011 20:29
louis theroux america's most hated family

It's extremely cruel the way they treat people.
I'm not disfellowshipped as such, meaning my mams still allowed to talk to me, but I get treated very badly by others in that religion...other than the threats, simply being ignored in the street by one time mates can be pretty hurtful.

To be cut off as dead from your family must be very hard to take!

I hate that religion and what they do to people.

subbuteo_171 Posted on 05/04/2011 20:40
louis theroux america's most hated family

Anyone got any halibut?

TheBoy007 Posted on 05/04/2011 21:05
louis theroux america's most hated family

It seems there is no answer to the Dinosaur bones question, either that or the answer is so ridicules Number9 is afraid to say, or he's furiously working his way through the 'Watchtower' website to find the stock answer[^]

benpoolie Posted on 05/04/2011 21:15
louis theroux america's most hated family

......


Link: the flintstones

HarryVegas Posted on 05/04/2011 21:22
louis theroux america's most hated family

bp [:D][^]

king_hellfire Posted on 05/04/2011 21:29
louis theroux america's most hated family

God put dinosaur bones there to prove all scientific means of dating wrong. Carbon dating and other forms of dating put the bones at millions of years old whereas the bible says that Earth is only 6000 years old. Therefore science is obviously wrong.

mickymacc Posted on 05/04/2011 21:31
louis theroux america's most hated family

The dinosaurs were eaten by the cave men,I saw a film about it with Raquel Welsh.[FACT.][^]

benpoolie Posted on 06/04/2011 08:33
louis theroux america's most hated family

Shhhhhh

TheBoy007 Posted on 06/04/2011 08:36
louis theroux america's most hated family

Wiped out in the 'great flood'[rle]. Didn't somebody once claim they'd found the remains of the Ark?

To believe these things you'd have to walk round with your eyes and ears shut. Has anyone been watching The Bible's Buried Secrets? Quite interesting. The presenter, Francesca Stavrakopoulou, claims God's wife was edited out of the Bible among other things. She get it and all, the presenter that is, not God's wife[;)]

lwochamp Posted on 06/04/2011 08:58
louis theroux america's most hated family

if you are stupid enough to believe in Biblical Literalism, then yes you should hate gays. However, Christ was around for a time when men and women, or men with men, didn't really choose to have an affair. It was generally rape. The thing that gets met about the Westboro baptist Church is the language that they use around these children and they expect them to know the ramblings of an incoherent oxygen robber who doesn't appear to do anything other than profligate hate. And the best part of it is that he thinks he is the chosen one. Louis was right though when he said that the vitriol coming back at them made them stronger as a unit. If I may end with a quote from the prophet Marvin Gaye; 'only love can conquer hate'.

TheBoy007 Posted on 06/04/2011 09:57
louis theroux america's most hated family

But surely Jesus being all seeing, all creating ect ect would be able to see past his surroundings and the current 'norm' and being all forgiving ect ect, should have taught people to be tolerant of gays, as he taught people to be tolerant and forgiving of everyone else. But he didn't he went the opposite way and and declared that he followed the rules of Moses, saying - “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

Midosparmo Posted on 06/04/2011 10:33
louis theroux america's most hated family

To be fair the one that got away and was a nurse had good knockers [LOVE]

andybarca Posted on 06/04/2011 11:06
louis theroux america's most hated family

in response to the dinosaurs/god's test is from Bill Hicks


Link: not for work as it's bill hicks

zaphod Posted on 06/04/2011 12:13
louis theroux america's most hated family

The Bible doesn't teach us to hate homosexuals, any more than it teaches us to hate adulterers, liars, oppressors or any other of a long list of sinners. Christians are not supposed to hate anyone at all.

If you read about Jesus's encounters with the adulterous Samaritan woman and the woman caught committing adultery, you'll see that he was able to be sympathetic to them, even though he did not imply their behaviour was OK.

If Christians were supposed to hate all sinners, then we would have to hate everyone, including ourselves. Everybody sins in a variety of different ways. There is no implication in the Bible that sexual sins are particularly worse than others. The indications are in a number of places that what really upsets God is rejection of himself and mistreatment of the poor, weak & disadvantaged.

speckyget Posted on 06/04/2011 12:29
louis theroux america's most hated family

This all strikes me as an Old vs New Testament debate. The egregious Phelpses - in common with the majority of the Christian Conservative Right in America - tend to invoke the former more often than the latter, despite their noisy espousal of 'Cheeesuz' as their Lawd an' Sayvyah.

TheBoy007 Posted on 06/04/2011 15:08
louis theroux america's most hated family

"The Bible doesn't teach us to hate homosexuals, any more than it teaches us to hate adulterers, liars, oppressors or any other of a long list of sinners."

So Homosexuals are sinners on a par with oppressors?

benpoolie Posted on 06/04/2011 15:21
louis theroux america's most hated family

Doesn't look like no.9 has the answers either, now that's a shock!

Midosparmo Posted on 06/04/2011 15:23
louis theroux america's most hated family

Dont get your knickers in a twist about them lads they are nutters and harmless if you take no notice of them.
Get worked up by them and they win.

the_dude_abides Posted on 06/04/2011 15:24
louis theroux america's most hated family

the equation is simple

people who believe in jesus and the bible are actually mentally insane

if somebody belived in dragons and pixies and said so he would be locked up, but believe in a mysterious old man who lives in the cloud watching everymove you do and sending you to a hot place if you have a XXXXXX, then your perfectly sane and rational

religion and its utter absurdity is actual 'proof' of evolution and merely highlights how unevolved we actually are

zaphod Posted on 06/04/2011 15:53
louis theroux america's most hated family

A good attempt by the dude to prove that atheists can be nutjobs, too.

the_dude_abides Posted on 06/04/2011 16:08
louis theroux america's most hated family

really and why is that zaphod

if something is unexplainable, you need to examine it and deduce what it is by scientific and rational means

not just make up god and jesus to fill the gap ffs

what next, ufo's

zaphod Posted on 06/04/2011 16:20
louis theroux america's most hated family

"mentally insane", the dude?

One-third of the world's population is mentally insane? Presumably you'd include other religions, too, taking it up to 90% plus of the world's population being insane?

As insanity necessarily involves significant deviation from the psychological norm, that would suggest it's you tiny minority of atheists who are more likely to be insane.

Midosparmo Posted on 06/04/2011 16:24
louis theroux america's most hated family

Militant atheist's are just as wacko as relgious maniacs.

The rest of us just tend to think live and let live.

TheSmogMonster Posted on 06/04/2011 16:28
louis theroux america's most hated family

"o believe these things you'd have to walk round with your eyes and ears shut. Has anyone been watching The Bible's Buried Secrets? Quite interesting. The presenter, Francesca Stavrakopoulou, claims God's wife was edited out of the Bible among other things. She get it and all, the presenter that is, not God's wife"

It's an good program which really blows apart any claims to historical accuracy the bible was ever claimed to have.

And yes she would.

On a side note, why is the story about Jesus slaying the dragons as a kid get left out these days?

Midosparmo Posted on 06/04/2011 16:30
louis theroux america's most hated family

I heard Gods pet hamster "Mr Cuddles" was edited out of the bible too.

MawTheMerrier Posted on 06/04/2011 16:37
louis theroux america's most hated family

Great to live and let live Mido, but religious organisations dont do that do they? They rape and pilage the poor and not so poor. They use religion to get idiots to blow themselves up.

They are evil people, not live and let livers.

zaphod Posted on 06/04/2011 16:41
louis theroux america's most hated family

From what I've read of The Bible's Buried Secrets, it's just a rehash of various theologians' alternative theories. I don't understand why people seem so keen to believe these alternative inventions, which make less sense than the original stories.

the_dude_abides Posted on 06/04/2011 16:42
louis theroux america's most hated family

not really zaphod

Insanity is when somebody creates a reality other than the one that exists

what is your phychological norm?, dream up gods , dragons and pixies for things you cannot explain?

and to say 90% of the world are religious is yet more dreamt up waffle

the_dude_abides Posted on 06/04/2011 16:45
louis theroux america's most hated family

'people seem so keen to believe these alternative inventions, which make less sense than the original stories.'


what can possible make less sense than an old man with a beard who lives in the sky and a man called jesus who made tables but was also his son floating off into the clouds after he died for a couple of days etc blah blah

if you want a good bullXXXXXX story, religion is the ultimate and best one around

MawTheMerrier Posted on 06/04/2011 16:48
louis theroux america's most hated family

"america's most hated family"

Having been brought up in the Catholic faith I could see many similarities. I wasnt shocked by this family. The catholics are equally shocking to me and my senses have been numbed over the years.

e.g. the attitude to sex and women, sex being 'wrong' somehow. Having women as nuns where sex is banned. etc etc..

TheSmogMonster Posted on 06/04/2011 16:54
louis theroux america's most hated family

"From what I've read of The Bible's Buried Secrets, it's just a rehash of various theologians' alternative theories."

I don't think you've come across the same thing.

It's a look at the archeological evidence concerning events in the old testament.

As an example it found that while some things did match up with reality, the parts of the bible regarding King David's kingdom and empire are at odds with the evidence at hand and that another king was essentially airbrushed out the Bible to make way for him.

Midosparmo Posted on 06/04/2011 16:55
louis theroux america's most hated family

Catholics and Muslims have a lot in common.

zaphod Posted on 06/04/2011 16:58
louis theroux america's most hated family

the dude, who defines reality? What you consider to be reality is not the definition of reality. If God exists, he is part of reality, regardless of whether you believe in him or not.

The psychological norm is the average psychological make-up of the majority. If you stray too far from that normal range, you are abnormal.

the_dude_abides Posted on 06/04/2011 17:01
louis theroux america's most hated family

Zaphod, are you saying that people who believe in magic and superstition without any scientific proof or evidence in the history of the human race are infact sane and rational?

if 2/3rds of the population believe in something that has never had a single shred of evidence to support it since the dawn of time, and infact millions and millions of tonnes of scientific evidence apposed to it since the dawn of time, then i'm afraid that they are deluded and therefore have a degree of insanity

to suggest that atheists who perceieve the world by what they see, weight and measure are the insane ones

I don't think you have thought it out a lot have you

The problem you have zaphod, is your hard wired through years of indoctrination to let go

MawTheMerrier Posted on 06/04/2011 17:04
louis theroux america's most hated family

I dont think insanity is the issue here - its brainwashing.

Kids are brainwashed from birth, in order to continue the delusion and keep the cash rolling in.

gravyboat Posted on 06/04/2011 17:08
louis theroux america's most hated family

Zaphod,

Do you believe 'God', as decribed in the Bible, really exists, and is here (around us) to specifically spread the word of Christianity?

benpoolie Posted on 06/04/2011 17:13
louis theroux america's most hated family

And maw the merrier hits the nail on the head!

I don't know if its still the case, but at one point a few years ago the watchtower society was in the top 10 of Americas richest organizations. Now that's some dough for a voluntary organization.

zaphod Posted on 06/04/2011 17:19
louis theroux america's most hated family

the dude, of course I believe in God. I'm sure should have been able to work that out. It's completely untrue that there's no evidence of God's existence; it's not proof, but it's indicative. There has been no scientific proof that God doesn't exist. There are many Christian scientists, as there always have been.

Believing in magic & superstition doesn't make a person insane. It's possible to be wrong without being insane, just like you're wrong, but I don't think you're insane.

gravyboat Posted on 06/04/2011 17:28
louis theroux america's most hated family

Zaphod,

It was me who asked the question, but you haven't quite answered it all.

TheSmogMonster Posted on 06/04/2011 17:28
louis theroux america's most hated family

"It's completely untrue that there's no evidence of God's existence; it's not proof, but it's indicative."

What is?

zaphod Posted on 06/04/2011 17:30
louis theroux america's most hated family

gravy, God has delegated to his followers the spreading of the gospel, though he does intervene directly sometimes.

TheSmogMonster Posted on 06/04/2011 17:35
louis theroux america's most hated family

What evidence is there of Gods existence though?

zaphod Posted on 06/04/2011 17:38
louis theroux america's most hated family

Read the New Testament, especially the gospels. The evidence is in the historical events & the subsequent growth of the church. There are other things going on more recently, but that's a good start.

gravyboat Posted on 06/04/2011 17:39
louis theroux america's most hated family

Yes, but that doesn't matter. He can delegate all he likes, but Christianity, and everything it stands for ultimately comes from 'Him'.

I suppose what I'm getting at - and sorry if it was a bit of a loaded question to start with - is for a bloke who is clearly intelligent and objective with most subjects (from what I see on here anyway - no real left or right stance on politics/economics etc), I just cannot get my head around how you could believe a 'higher being' (something which I wouldn't be so bold as to rule out completely) is a 'god' specific to the religion of Christianity. It's simply irrational.

As I said on the other thread, who knows what the starting point was, but with the diversity of people and thoughts and philosophy's practised on this tiny insignificant rock alone, how can anybody think it was all (the entire universe, no less) created by God, the father of Jesus Christ? How can a well-read, self-aware intelligent human being think that is true?

TheBoy007 Posted on 06/04/2011 17:42
louis theroux america's most hated family

Sorry Zaphod you seem to be getting ganged up on a bit here (little unfair) but i was just wondering if you did indeed think Homosexuality was a sin and on what level (ie on a par with oppressors)?

TheSmogMonster Posted on 06/04/2011 17:48
louis theroux america's most hated family

"Read the New Testament, especially the gospels. The evidence is in the historical events & the subsequent growth of the church. There are other things going on more recently, but that's a good start."

I have read it, many times.

Two points jump out at me.

1) I don't accept the bible as a historical document.

2) The growth means nothing, it's just one event following another. Things don't need a divine influence to become popular.

Neither of them are proof sorry.

And yeah sorry for the gang up lol, thats what you get when you answer honestly I guess.

zaphod Posted on 06/04/2011 17:48
louis theroux america's most hated family

TheBoy, the Bible teaches that homosexual practices (as opposed to homosexual inclinations) are sinful. My personal opinion is that Jesus didn't get too worked up about sexual misdemeanors, based on his reaction to adulterous women. There is, however, no scale to sin. We are not supposed to do any of them.

the_dude_abides Posted on 06/04/2011 17:51
louis theroux america's most hated family

i don't have to prove god doesn't exists and neither does anybody else, no more so than i have to disprove dragons, pixies and faires exist

thats you and your belief that needs to prove it

you cannot simply say that because you cannot disprove something exists it becomes 50/50, the celestial teapot argument, you cannot disprove that either, how absurd is that

your hard wired for religion wether you like it or not, and simply making something up to fill in blank is a total delusion

do you believe in dragons zaphod, and if not, why not?

zaphod Posted on 06/04/2011 17:55
louis theroux america's most hated family

Smog, why don't you accept the gospels as historical documents? People got killed for saying they'd seen & heard those things. I can't see people being willing to die for something they made up.

It's entirely different from being killed for what you believe.

gravyboat Posted on 06/04/2011 17:55
louis theroux america's most hated family

I hope Zaphod doesn't think I'm 'ganging-up' on him.

I'm genuinely curious as to how intelligent people can believe in something so irrational.

TheSmogMonster Posted on 06/04/2011 18:11
louis theroux america's most hated family

"Smog, why don't you accept the gospels as historical documents? People got killed for saying they'd seen & heard those things. I can't see people being willing to die for something they made up."

Now this a bit cut short but, I don't accept them because they were probably pieced together from earlier documents by the roman Emperor Constantine when he converted to Christianity.

There's a whole study of the New Testament apocrypha such as the gnostic gospels in which you can see the evolution of older texts into what we have today. There's the search for the 'Q document'.

As for people dying, people die for all kinds of beliefs, look at the Muslim suicide bombers, I have very little doubt they believe in what they are doing, but it doesn't make me believe in their religion.

I also think that much like the Phelps's of the program many early Christian's thought that Salvation was just round the corner.

In short if you honestly believe then dying for your beliefs it makes a lot more sense then renouncing them.

I just don't think they knew any better.

TheBoy007 Posted on 06/04/2011 18:23
louis theroux america's most hated family

Zaphod do you take the 'missing' Gospels as a historical document? Like the Gospel of Thomas which chronicled Jesus' life as a child, turning mud into birds ect.

mickymacc Posted on 06/04/2011 18:34
louis theroux america's most hated family

Believing in fairies and elves= a nutter
Believing in a God=having faith.
Despite there being no empirical evidence to prove either. Can some one tell me the difference,other than one has a bigger publicity budget.[8)]

paulmboro Posted on 06/04/2011 19:01
louis theroux america's most hated family

number9 is obviously a coward. Probably someone insecure and uncomfortable with their faith

TheBoy007 Posted on 06/04/2011 19:33
louis theroux america's most hated family

Bit harsh paul.

paulmboro Posted on 06/04/2011 19:36
louis theroux america's most hated family

Mebbes but he was quick to do the disappearing act the very moment the probing questions arrived and its not like this hasnt happened before when hes been pushed.

HarryVegas Posted on 06/04/2011 19:52
louis theroux america's most hated family

The JW I knew used to try and sell it to me, but when my questions started to blow holes in his beliefs, he would always reply, "I don't want to talk about it anymore" and bluntly change the subject. [8)]

benpoolie Posted on 06/04/2011 23:37
louis theroux america's most hated family

Bob on.

benpoolie Posted on 06/04/2011 23:52
louis theroux america's most hated family

He was also quick to call harry and myself liars....

futureboy Posted on 07/04/2011 09:13
louis theroux america's most hated family

The young Oriental-looking bloke from San Francisco was quite obviously gay. It was also perfectly clear that they didn't want him there, possibly because they'd worked it out for themselves but didn't want to accuse him straightaway.

benpoolie Posted on 08/04/2011 16:25
louis theroux america's most hated family

.....


Link: :-)