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Pogatetz_Ate_My_Hamster Posted on 21/12/2007 15:29
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

Why on earth are we sending a private jet to fly these people back to this country? For starters they're not British, they are only british residents. The US have said that these 3 are 'very dangerous' to national security, so why on earth are we bringing them back here?

Where was the private jet and the Government intervention when the teddy teacher was slumming it in a Sudan prison? Why is it also that we can afford to send private jets to pick up these people? Why do we pay £4,000 each to foreigners (£36 million in total) to sod of home yet we can't give cancer sufferes potentially life saving drugs and pensioners are given pittance to heat they're homes?

This Government are completly and utterly, USELESS

bblf Posted on 21/12/2007 15:36
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

Our government is more interested in helping those who wish us harm than the people who vote them in.
In every election since I was 18 I have voted for Labour (and thats a lot of elections local /national/european etc) No more ,they have not got a clue who is in this country and don't seem bothered. they have decided against deporting criminals who are not residents on release from prison now. I dont feel they can protect my family or me.

Peppery_John Posted on 21/12/2007 15:38
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

Where's the link to this subject?

Pogatetz_Ate_My_Hamster Posted on 21/12/2007 15:39
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

Totally agree with you bblf. Looking at the options in which to vote for there isn't many. UKIP would be a wasted vote as they won't get in and the Lib Dems are as useless as this lot.

So therefore I have decided to vote for Cameron. Is he the best thing since sliced bread? Obviously lot. But there is no way he can do a worse job than this punch of self-serving b@stards

Pogatetz_Ate_My_Hamster Posted on 21/12/2007 15:42
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

Here is a link I found.

I found this bit interesting:
The Home Office said the "immigration status" of the three men would be reviewed on their return. Their arrival in the UK did not mean that the three men would be staying in Britain indefinitely, a spokesman said.

Then in that case. 1) Why have we brought them back here? 2)Why have they used our money to fly over and collect them? 3) Do they honestly expect us to belive these people will be deported?


Link: Disgrace

bblf Posted on 21/12/2007 15:43
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

Pogi I never thought I would see the day I would vote for the Tories , like you I feel there does not seem to be an option at the moment which is a crying shame.

zzzzz Posted on 21/12/2007 15:47
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

Shocking aint it.
3 people who have never been tried are suddenly freed from a Concentration Camp and we've ended up with them.
Wave you Daily Mails in protest fellas.

Pogatetz_Ate_My_Hamster Posted on 21/12/2007 15:53
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

Why is it our responsibility? Why pussy foot around when one of our own is held in a foreign country yet when it's people who don't even belong here suddenly we perk up. What about Gillian Gibbons? Where was her private jet? What about Michael Shields? Another man has confessed to the crime yet he's been held in jail and is facing another 12 years in prison. We're not demanding Turkey releases him.

These 3 are not our responisbility. I agree they shouldn't be held for years without charge but they should then be sent back to their homeland.

SplendidStuff Posted on 21/12/2007 15:54
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

According to that report a british man was released also after about 6 years of torture without charge, was questioned and then released without any charges to live his life.


borobadge Posted on 21/12/2007 15:55
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

pogo....

the americans have to say theyre dangerous...theyve captured them and locked them up for the past 3 years.

the british government via the spooks will want to interview the 3 blokes, the safest way to ensure that 'we' still have control of them is to bring them back under our control, hence the jets.

1 of them 'Omar' lives not too far away from me, his brother lives here as well and has been leading a local campaign to bring home his innocent brother...again as with the americans he has to say that, what else can he do.

i dont know if his innocent or not, but i do know that if the americans had evidence of terrorism and covert military action against him, they would have trumpeted it all over the press and had their day in their own court, with their own judge and their own jury..........but they didnt.

zzzzz Posted on 21/12/2007 15:56
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

Thats the spirit "SEND EM BACK"!!!!
Fk the lorra em. Shut the borders. Its got nowt to do with us. Close the tunnel. As long as we're OK.

Senor_Chester Posted on 21/12/2007 15:56
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

Michael Shields lol!

Pogatetz_Ate_My_Hamster Posted on 21/12/2007 15:57
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

I don't trust the americans though I don't trust our own intelligence either after the WMD claims before the Iraq war

SplendidStuff Posted on 21/12/2007 15:59
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

Hamster, if you dont trust the Americans then why do you believe that these men are guilty of anything.

Sorry when i say guilty i mean not charged with anything but suspected for 6 years without evidence.

Pogatetz_Ate_My_Hamster Posted on 21/12/2007 16:04
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

So zzzzz I assume your happy with all this then. Aswell as the £36 million we have paid to foreigns to go home and set up buisnesses. It's all related. Why do we treat people who arn't British better than those who are?

What makes the government think that giving foreign nationals £4,000 to go home is justified when they are denying cancer patients drugs which could cure them or prolong their life? Then to make it worse some people actually comeback here to get more money out of us!

We're bending over backwards for people who don't belong here and it costing us a fortune. Yet we can't even give our police a pay rise! We're a laughing stock but as usual the 'I vote Labour because my dad did' and the 'I hate Maggie Thatcher' brigade are allowing this lousy government to get away with it

Pogatetz_Ate_My_Hamster Posted on 21/12/2007 16:05
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

I'm not saying they are guilty. I'm asking the question why is it always our responsibilty to take these people in?

SplendidStuff Posted on 21/12/2007 16:06
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

For starters that figure is speculation and the

" paid to foreigns to go home and set up buisnesses." well thats just fooking made up.

moxzin Posted on 21/12/2007 16:07
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

"3 people who have never been tried are suddenly freed from a Concentration Camp"

You'll be calling it a Gulag next. Guantanamo Bay is a serious issue, I think Thomas Friedman put it best when he described it as the 'Anti-Statue of Liberty', in terms of symbolism around the world. But a concentration camp? I don't think you know what one is. 775 people have passed through Gitmo's doors, of many nationalities and ethnicities - a concentration camp is where you want to 'concentrate' a population so either its easy to control (British in Boer War) or easy to put to work/death (the Nazis/Soviets). Neither is in operation for Guantanamo. Its just a prison for people of dubious status. Personally I think they're POW's and should be treated to the standards of the Geneva Convention.

zzzzz Posted on 21/12/2007 16:08
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

"So zzzzz I assume your happy with all this then. Aswell as the £36 million we have paid to foreigns to go home and set up buisnesses. It's all related." [:D]

About as related as you are to your hero Pogatetz, another fkin immigrant [:)] and we're paying him a fortune as well.

Pogatetz_Ate_My_Hamster Posted on 21/12/2007 16:08
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

No it isn't made up, the government have admitted it


Link: True

SplendidStuff Posted on 21/12/2007 16:10
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

So are you talking about suspected terrorists or asylum seekers??

Seems like you have them lumped together but you are seriously confusing the two.

Those figures you stated are related to the story on sending failed asylum seekers back home. You have blatantly used them figures and quoted them in relation to the guantanamo story!!

borobadge Posted on 21/12/2007 16:12
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

is it perhaps because we are civilised, have a sense of justice and fair play, with a fine tradition of looking after others who are under threat.(as a country/nation i think theyre fine attributes, now if only we could spread it to the people on a day to day lifestyleee) )


the 3 who have been released all live here.

Pogatetz_Ate_My_Hamster Posted on 21/12/2007 16:15
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

Both, nice to see you didn't admit you were wrong on that one though.

The overall question I'm asking is why does this government treat other people far better than it treats its own? The government didn't care when the Teddy Teacher was banged up, all they came out with was "Its disapointing". They've been fighting for years to get these 3 released.

When will these politicians see that they are PUBLIC servants here to serve the people of this country? We're not a world wide charity case, charity starts at home. We've got enough problems as it is without trying to solve the world's.

SplendidStuff Posted on 21/12/2007 16:18
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

If you want to stir up the issue try and get the facts right and not mislead people by taking figures from one issue and merging with a totally unrelated issue ffs.

The asylum seeker issue is a whole other debate, try realizing the difference.

zzzzz Posted on 21/12/2007 16:18
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

"I dont think you know what one is"
Please dont patronise me. I know what a concentration camp is. Because of your affinity to what happened to the Jews does not give you a monopoly on the past moxy.

"a concentration camp is where you want to 'concentrate' a population so either its easy to control" Thats exactly what it is. Those that have towed the line have been freed early, those that havent have been kept locked up.

I also know what POW's are and these men are not POW's. They have had no rights, no legal representation and no trial.

"Just" a prison for people of dubious state. Is that 'just' as in justice or 'just' as in inconsequential. Is it a crime to be of dubious state?

moxzin Posted on 21/12/2007 16:29
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

There's 355 people in it. I agree its wrong the way the inmates have been treated, and that they haven't been charged or tried. But to call it a concentration camp not only cheapens the term, but I'll repeat its wrong by definition. If America had built a large camp in Afghanistan and herded thousands of people forcibly and indiscriminately in there to live so they could be monitored and controlled - thats a concentration camp. Flying a few hundred suspected combatants half-way around the world to a military base isn't - not on scale, not on purpose and not on principle.

"Because of your affinity to what happened to the Jews does not give you a monopoly on the past moxy."

I think thats a bizarre statement. Don't we all have 'affinity' to the Holocaust? What does 'affinity' mean in this context anyway? I'm not trying to monopolise the past but just trying to point out that sometimes people throw things like 'concentration camp' around too lightly these days, and I don't think its accidental either.

Pogatetz_Ate_My_Hamster Posted on 21/12/2007 16:33
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

SplendidStuff I never gave wrong facts are mixed up the issues, if you don't have the brain capacity to understand that I am using the 2 separate incidents as an example than thatís your problem. The issues are somewhat related.

The facts about the £36 million paid to FAILED asylum seekers are 100% correct. The information came from the International Organisation for Migration (IOM). They administrate the scheme on behalf of Britain. Why would they lie? The government have come out and said that its true because they belive its cheaper than deporting them. So on that one you are WRONG

There is a difference yes, but there is a similarity aswell. They're terror suspects, they're not from this country. It's not our job to look after them.

I'll ask the question again, why does this government look after foreigners, criminals and those who wish us harm better than the law abiding man in the street? I'll leave you to ponder that one, have a good evening...

borobadge Posted on 21/12/2007 16:37
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

where and when did you ask this question, last time ?

zzzzz Posted on 21/12/2007 16:42
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

Of course its not on the scale of the atrocities carried out by the Nazis. But in the context that you placed it, "where you want to 'concentrate' a population so either its easy to control" it fits the bill.

I also think its not "just a prison for people of dubious state". I find that a bizarre statement.

I dont want to see anyone imprisoned without trial, whether it be Gilad Shalit or Jamiel el Banna.

What would I have done with the Guantanamo prisoners? Fk knows. What would you have done with them Moxy?

moxzin Posted on 21/12/2007 16:49
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

I've already said. Give them Prisoner of War status and treat them up to the standards of the Geneva Convention, except in cases where they are thought to be terrorists and likely to commit future terrorist offences. But in those cases there must be proof, a charge and a trial. Looks like America has tried to avoid both the Geneva Convention and Habeas Corpus and yes its sickening, and very very disappointing. In this War or any war, symbolism is important, and Guantanamo has achieved extremely little but earned maximum opprobrium. A huge error; and a tragedy for those involved.

SplendidStuff Posted on 21/12/2007 16:51
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

hamster , you have an issue with asylum seekers and Guantanamo detainees. The two are separate and dont relate to each other.

If someone has asylum in this country and then gets bange dup in Guantanamo without prrof or charge for a large number of years, why do they not deserve to be brought back here?

They have in many cases done absolutley nothing wrong, have normal lives and in gainful employment.

Why should they not be allowed back to try and get over the ordeal with family and friends?

zzzzz Posted on 21/12/2007 16:56
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

Two of the three have been arrested by UK plod on suspision of terrorist offences. Why couldnt that have been done years ago? If they are guilty, lock them up then deport them the same as any other criminal.

The third, why hasnt he been arrested? Does that mean he's innocent?

I agree that its one of the biggest bollox of US foreign policy in their history and will fuel the fire of extremism for years to come.

Anyway, there are more pressing matters within International Relations.




Link: Stimulation

junkyard_angel Posted on 21/12/2007 17:54
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

I think a place where you can be locked up for six years without legal representation, are blindfolded and shackled, are tortured on a regular basis and are never charged with anything, can safely be called a concentration camp.

SplendidStuff Posted on 21/12/2007 18:01
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

I would go further and say its probably more like hell.

At least POW knew why they were being detained and knew it was a potential scenario, albeit an unfortunate one.

Knowing that you have done nothing wrong and detained and tortured for so long, without family contact, without representation, must F*** you up for life.

moxzin Posted on 21/12/2007 18:05
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

Well, most were foreign fighters in Afghanistan so I doubt they were 'all there' to start with.

SplendidStuff Posted on 21/12/2007 18:08
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

Well, most were foreign fighters in Afghanistan so I doubt they were 'all there' to start with.

Please explain what you mean, i dont get you.

TeessideCleveland Posted on 21/12/2007 18:15
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

Pogatetz_Ate_My_Hamster
'So therefore I have decided to vote for Cameron'


Without meaning to have a go that's hardly a revelation is it?

axel1974 Posted on 21/12/2007 18:17
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

i cant believe bush and blair both managed to get back in for another term anyway after the iraq shambles

TeessideCleveland Posted on 21/12/2007 18:21
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

Failed asylum seekers should be kicked out on the next plane - the same with illegal immigrants
The Gazette said how hard it was for failed asylum seekers to live on a fiver a week
That's a fiver too much - they shouldn't get a penny
I also don't care whether it costs more or less to deport them - they shouldn't be here
However I do not have a problem with asylum seekers and feel there should be no limits set
If failed asylum seekers and illegal immigrants are kicked out NOW there wouldn't be a problem and the racists such as the B N P would have less to feed on

TeessideCleveland Posted on 21/12/2007 18:22
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

'i cant believe bush and blair both managed to get back in for another term anyway after the iraq shambles'
But that's not the only issue taken into consideration when people vote

red_rebel Posted on 21/12/2007 20:08
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

It is part internment camp, part 'enhanced interrogation' centre and part transit camp, a stopping off point for people being shuttled about the globe via 'extraordinary rendition' to countries that have more efficent torturers to be brutalised beyond a point that even the CIA can't justify.

It is impossible to square Gitmo with any political, legal or moral norms and bizarre to try to see it as upholding democracy.

What kind of system is that can condemn torture in other states when it suits them yet outsource their own barbarism with such a brass neck.

Peppery_John Posted on 21/12/2007 20:12
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

Not a lot of Christmas spirit about, judging by some of the replies.

Lots of trolling though :D

elnino1 Posted on 21/12/2007 20:46
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

zzzz..

"Two of the three have been arrested by UK plod on suspision of terrorist offences. Why couldnt that have been done years ago? If they are guilty, lock them up then deport them the same as any other criminal"



But we don't deport all criminals.

The point now being asked is, is this country a soft touch?

Yes it fooking is. £4000 paid to get people to leave is a joke. Some of the posts on here are laughable, how soft and liberal some of you are. Thankfully you're in the minority, but unfortunately the minority's voices are for some reason the loudest.

Whether anyone choses to admit it or not, this country IS a soft touch. Ferrel youth are out of control, real criminals like pedos are walking away from court without sentences. Criminals are not treat like they should be. Europe are bending us over.

This government should be tried for treason.

SplendidStuff Posted on 21/12/2007 20:48
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

Yeah and its all the asylum seekers fault, burn them burn them.

elnino1 Posted on 21/12/2007 20:53
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

Good point splendid.

So you explain to me why a failed asylum seeker should be paid to leave. Go on, justify it? I bet you can't.

Also, if someone comes here for and is granted temporary asylum, why should they be given housing etc. I could go to London now and spot homeless folk. Why aren't they given a house?

Answers?

SplendidStuff Posted on 21/12/2007 20:56
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

Homeless who are refused housing usually have criminal records and drug offenses, you know, the people you wouldnt want to live next to.

My argumnent is not that asylum (failed) seekers should be paid to leave, read the 1st post, should bring you upto speed.

elnino1 Posted on 21/12/2007 21:00
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

I've moved on from the first post.

However, the point is spot on in the first post.

Answer this - why were these men in Afghanistan during a very public conflict? That alone means they are guilty of something in my opinion. Why else would they be there?

SplendidStuff Posted on 21/12/2007 21:03
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

I like to base my discussions on the original issues, so move along son, thats a good lad.

Also nowhere does it state any of these men where in Afghanistan.

elnino1 Posted on 21/12/2007 21:06
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

HAHA nicely avoided you bleeding hearted soft liberal fool.


SplendidStuff Posted on 21/12/2007 21:07
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

Where does it state in the article that the men where captured in Afghanistan?

elnino1 Posted on 21/12/2007 21:10
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

Just because it's not in that article doesn't make it false.

It is common knowledge they were in Afghanistan when the yanks picked them up.

SplendidStuff Posted on 21/12/2007 21:11
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

haha , yes your honour, the information is infact


BULL S***.

I rest my case.


elnino1 Posted on 21/12/2007 21:14
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

You have wonderfully failed to answer any question I posed.

That's bullS***.

*waits to be accused of being a Daily Mail reader...*

Revol_Tees Posted on 21/12/2007 21:16
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

It's like reading a case study of how racist propaganda works: whipping people up into such a frenzy that they end up advocating solutions that are almost Nazi-like when you follow them to their logical conclusions. You just know that TeessideCleveland and elnino1 would be taking Goebbels' words as gospel if they'd been around in 1930s Germany.

SplendidStuff Posted on 21/12/2007 21:16
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

your question is why where these men in afghanistan.

I asked you where it stated they were.

You then said its common knowledge they were.


Sorry mate try again.

elnino1 Posted on 21/12/2007 21:18
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

Revol_Tees.

If that's your judgement then fair crack, but it's just another example of someone who is happy to let this country continue to be sold down the river.

I'm not asking for radical solutions, just some backbone and a little independance would be nice.

Is that OK, or does that make me racist? Take off your liberal blinkers and wake up.

Hand_In_Glove Posted on 21/12/2007 21:20
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

My God elnino1 you post more S*** than me!!!

elnino1 Posted on 21/12/2007 21:22
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

hand_in_glove - pipe down gaylord.

splendid - see below link. Either Pakistan or Afghanistan was where they were arrested. Very suspicious.

No dount you'll have some whitty rhetort, rather than having any sort of serious debate.



Link: 4 of the 5

SplendidStuff Posted on 21/12/2007 21:28
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

One got married and had a kid, one taken in gambia, one gave a confession after being shot in the leg, one was a charity worker(they do exist in warzones) and one travelled to afghanistan.

No witt or anything.

I take this issue seriously, and dont believe that just because you are in a country you are an accomplice to terrorism.


Hand_In_Glove Posted on 21/12/2007 21:29
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

What the F*** does "whitty" mean, elnino1?

So I'm guessing that everyone in Pakistan or Afghanistan should be arrested and detained on suspicions of being a terrorist then?

elnino1 Posted on 21/12/2007 21:34
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

OMAR DEGHAYES

A Chechen terrorist training video purports to show him but Mr Stafford Smith said the man in question was actually Abu Walid, a Saudi who is now dead.

Very convinient.


--------------------------------

JAMIL EL-BANNA

He was also questioned about his links to imprisoned radical Muslim cleric Abu Qatada, but insisted he only met him once in the UK. It was feared he would face torture if returned to Jordan.


Links?? So he knew him then. Suspicious.

-----------------------------

ABDENOUR SAMEUR

He was arrested in the mountains between Pakistan and Afghanistan while in the company of a group of Arabs. He was shot in the leg.

Mr Sameur admitted having prior knowledge of the September 11 attacks although he later said this confession was forced out of him by his US captors who said they would not treat his leg wound. He said he feared that if he did not confess his leg would have to be amputated.


You seriously saying that this guy isn't suspicious?

--------------------------------

SHAKER ABDUR-RAHEEM AAMER

He is reported to have travelled to Afghanistan in August 2001 to carry out voluntary charity work.


Good excuse

-----------------------------


BINYAM MOHAMMED AL HABASHI

After seven years in the UK he converted to Islam. He travelled to Pakistan and Afghanistan and allegedly got firearms and explosives training alongside shoe bomber Richard Reid.


Yeah, let's let him run free.


FFS.


elnino1 Posted on 21/12/2007 21:35
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

Hand_In_Glove, I'll not entertain you in any sort of discussion, I've seen so much bollox posted from you, you're not even entertaining either like some trolls.

Jog on sport.

SplendidStuff Posted on 21/12/2007 21:37
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

Fook me your class detective elnoF***all.

Weird how it took the american government 6 years ti realize they had nothing on these blokes and let most free.

Should have got you on the case, job done and home for tea.[:D]

elnino1 Posted on 21/12/2007 21:39
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

Alternatively we could have people like you sort it, splendidshoite.

Society would break down as every dangerous F***** would be running free, you'd be too scared to upset anyone by locking them up.

Soft arse.

Hand_In_Glove Posted on 21/12/2007 21:40
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

I guess you just don't want to answer the question elnino1, you chicken S***.

elnino1 Posted on 21/12/2007 21:41
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

What's the question soft co.ck?

elnino1 Posted on 21/12/2007 21:42
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

"So I'm guessing that everyone in Pakistan or Afghanistan should be arrested and detained on suspicions of being a terrorist then?"


Better than arresting no one, you soft yellow bellied vvanker.

Good job people like you weren't in charge when the Nazi's were about.

Revol_Tees Posted on 21/12/2007 21:43
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

Re. the UK asylum process, it's anything BUT a soft touch. For a start, it's rigged so that 80% of applications are refused by H.O. caseworkers on the flimsiest of grounds; destitution is then used as a tool of policy to starve people out of the country; this in turn is counterproductive because it forces people to drop off the radar completely and drift into the black economy, where they're exploited and marginalised completely. If they really were "bogus", it'd be far easier for them to go back to wherever they came, but most don't because they're desperate. Furthermore, many of those who are actually removed from the UK once their applications are refused are being beaten and brutalised on their way out. Yet somehow the UK is seen as a "soft touch" -- a spectacular achievement for the propagandists who work in the popular media.

SplendidStuff Posted on 21/12/2007 21:43
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

haha too soft.

I would lock ignorant F*****s like you up, more of a hinderance on society.

Would probably turn you into cat food.

elnino1 Posted on 21/12/2007 21:44
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

Revol_Tees, so why do so many cross an entire continent to get here then?

That is bollox. Our benefit system looks after these people, and you know it.

HolgateEnd Posted on 21/12/2007 21:45
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

These F*****s should not be allowed entry to this country again - just incase they pose a threat.

And as for paying a load of illegal immigrants to go back, I'd love to know how they work out that it's cheaper to pay them £4k instead of finding them, arresting them, taking them to Gatwick and putting them on the next flight out of England, with a ban from ever returning. No need for detention centres etc, just put the B*****s on a plane and get them out of our country.

An even easier solution would just be for the government to come out and say "if you werent born here, you dont qualify for ANY benefits whatsoever". If they did that, these immigrants wouldnt see Britain as the 'promised land' and wouldnt come here. So, with such a simple solution, we would reduce government spending and the number of illegal immigrants.

Now why cant the prime minister who earns £120k a year work that out????

Hand_In_Glove Posted on 21/12/2007 21:45
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

I agree with you Splendid, this elnino1 is an absolute dickwad. I bet he thinks every single Muslim is a terrorist.

SplendidStuff Posted on 21/12/2007 21:46
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leaking out now, the bile and hatred for foreign people.

Why did we fight against the nazis in the first place?

elnino1 Posted on 21/12/2007 21:49
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

You need some backbone son.

SplendidStuff Posted on 21/12/2007 21:50
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

You need to shake your head missus.

Must be a terrible thing living in ingorance and fear.

elnino1 Posted on 21/12/2007 21:52
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

I don't hate foreign people.

I just don't understand why we have to pay to have so many of them here.

I pay a damn lot of tax son, I want it used in the interests of this country and its people, not people from other countries.

Is that clear enough for you?

Hand_In_Glove Posted on 21/12/2007 21:52
These three released from Guantanamo Bay

Backbone? Says the spineless cretin who's ignorant as F***?The wimpish little dribble of S*** thats happy to tar entire nations of people with the same brush.

elnino1, do you think that every Irishman is a terrorist too?

elnino1 Posted on 21/12/2007 21:53
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The only thing that scares me splendid my dear is soft arses like you ruining this country, too scared to stand up for what we once believed in.

SUppose you're one of the ones who thinks blackboards are racist.

Jessie.

elnino1 Posted on 21/12/2007 21:54
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"elnino1, do you think that every Irishman is a terrorist too"

Not really no. My family originate from Northern Ireland. And where did I say Muslims were terrorists? Ignorant C***.

Hand_In_Glove Posted on 21/12/2007 21:54
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And what did we once believe in dickhead, discriminating against everyone who's different, you racist F***ing idiot?

SplendidStuff Posted on 21/12/2007 21:55
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You dont even know what your standing upto, thats the worrying thing..


Sheep.

elnino1 Posted on 21/12/2007 21:56
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No, having an independant country that believed in looking after the interests of it's own people first, you thick F***.

Do you despise English people that much, you wet turd?

elnino1 Posted on 21/12/2007 21:57
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"You dont even know what your standing upto, thats the worrying thing"


But I do my dear, I do.

Backbone love, get some.

pat_the_cat Posted on 21/12/2007 21:58
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For Guantanamo read Long Kesh (H-Block, call it what you may). The British were locking people up for no reason years ago. Just in case.
Create an enemy, create fear.

Hand_In_Glove Posted on 21/12/2007 21:59
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What are you talking about you window licker? Taking care of our interests? Since when did that include arresting and detaining everyone who happens to live in a different country, you uneducated ponce?

I wish they'd bring back capital punishment and rid the world of thick ignorant S***bags like you.

elnino1 Posted on 21/12/2007 22:00
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Dear me now you have revealed yourself.

Since when have we arrested an entire nation? You've JUST said we've arrested EVERYONE who lives in another country.

You cretin. Uneducated? Your comment above was very educated wasn't it, ballbag.

Revol_Tees Posted on 21/12/2007 22:00
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elnino1: it's not bollox mate. It's all been corroborated by endless charity reports, human rights studies, Parliamentary investigations (etc.) and I've seen it with my own eyes having been involved in this line of work.

The system only looks after asylum seekers whose cases are pending or those failed asylum seekers who sign up for "voluntary return", but it still holds them under the official poverty line (and well under the minimum welfare benefits to which your average UK citizen is entitled). The rest get nothing from the state. On Teesside, they may get £5 a week (if they're lucky) but that's dependent upon the good will of local charities. The other option is to work for a quid an hour in a pizza shop or wherever. This whole policy is based on the false assumption that most asylum seekers are "bogus" and will therefore volunteer to go back when they realise they're being made destitute. But they're not, so they don't.

And most asylum seekers have little or no knowledge of the benefits system before they arrive. They travel across a continent usually at the behest of an "agent" who they pay to get them out of their country of origin at almost any cost, such is their desperation.

Hand_In_Glove Posted on 21/12/2007 22:02
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I didn't say we had you F***ing moron!

elnino1 Posted on 21/12/2007 22:03
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Really?

"What are you talking about you window licker? Taking care of our interests? Since when did that include arresting and detaining everyone who happens to live in a different country, you uneducated ponce?"

Read it you bin digger.


Hand_In_Glove Posted on 21/12/2007 22:04
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You're not very bright are you, either that or you don't read the posts that you're responding to. F***ing spacker!

elnino1 Posted on 21/12/2007 22:07
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HAHA you're funny all of a sudden.

"Since when did that include arresting and detaining everyone who happens to live in a different country"

Take a deep breath and read it again. I also find it funny that you're calling me a racist (despite nothing racist being said), when you're offending handicapped people, on a board where members of the MDSA frequent.

Priceless. Total cu.nt

Hand_In_Glove Posted on 21/12/2007 22:12
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You've obviously misunderstood the question and attempted to worm out of it like the sly racist C*** you are.

I previously asked you; "So I'm guessing that everyone in Pakistan or Afghanistan should be arrested and detained on suspicions of being a terrorist then?", you answered; "Better than arresting no one, you soft yellow bellied vvanker."

Firstly you do understand that Afghanistan and Pakistan are countries?

You're a thick idiot who either can't read (probably) or doesn't bother. I never said that we have arrested entire nations, read the F***ing thread again, racist.

HolgateEnd Posted on 21/12/2007 22:14
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Revol, the point is that the B*****s shouldnt be here in the first place (not just these 3, but all illegal immigrants), and so have no right to any money from our government. So they should get less than the average UK citizen is entitled to - they should get NOWT.

And as for not having any knowledge of the benefits system before getting here, that is absolute shyte. Why choose England then, if not for the benefits? Of all the countries in the world, and different towns/cities in their own country, why would they decide to come here if it wasnt for the money.

And, what most people dont know about seeking asylum, is that an individual is only actually allowed to seek asylum in the first safe country that they come to. So the only asylum seekers we get should be from Scotland, Wales, Ireland, France and Holland. Nowhere else.

They know exactly where they're coming and what they'll get before they get anywhere near an 'agent'.

elnino1 Posted on 21/12/2007 22:14
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I don't need too. You've proven to be an offensive uneducated tool.

Nothing I've said is Racist. You've used the words "spactis" and "window licker".

Both very deragotory to disabled people, like I said some of the MDSA frequent this board.

I'll be leaving you alone now. You are an idiot. Go to bed now son.

Hand_In_Glove Posted on 21/12/2007 22:20
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Do civilisation favour and throw yourself into the Tees will you? Good lad.

elnino1 Posted on 21/12/2007 22:20
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Are you still here?

Hand_In_Glove Posted on 21/12/2007 22:25
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HolgateEnd you do understand that not all immigrants come to Britain don't you? You do understand that France, Spain, Italy, Greece and Germany get just as many if not more illegal immigrants/asylum seekers than Britain. Does. Clearly you know nothing about seeking asylum or immigration whilst it's advised they should seek asylum in the nearest safe nation they choose other countries for more reasons than the benefits they receive. Oh by the way what benefits do illegal immigrants and asylums seekers receive seeing as you obviously know so much about it.

Revol_Tees Posted on 21/12/2007 22:27
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HolgateEnd: have you actually read anything that I've written above? From where does your "knowledge" of the asylum system actually derive? Have you actually looked at any of the aforementioned studies, reports, policies (etc)? Or is ill-informed hearsay and intuition good enough for you on this one?

I guess that if someone told you the world was round, you'd carry on arguing that it was a square. If it suited your agenda to do so.


SplendidStuff Posted on 21/12/2007 22:53
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Revol, finally some bloody common sense.

Like living in the dark ages usually.

HolgateEnd Posted on 21/12/2007 23:06
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I havent got the time or the energy to list the benefits they get.

Of course I know that all immigrants dont come to england you doyle. But there's a damn good proportion who do, and none of them should because they pass through other 'safe' countries to get here.

Granted, i have not sat and read through pages and pages of policies and reports, I'm not that sad. However, I have seen enough facts and figures from various sources and had enough conversations with my Auntie who works for NATO to have half a clue.

The simple fact, going back to the original post, is that people who have no right to be here are being paid £4000 by our government to go back to wherever they came from. Now, the government has never given me £4k, despite me being born here, resident here and working to pay my tax and NI. So why the fook should some foreigner be entitled to it.

And, I dont have any agenda. I have an opinion.

SplendidStuff Posted on 21/12/2007 23:13
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You know F*** all and you type a large repsonse even tho you don't have the time or the energy. haha

And you base your opinions on pieces of information becasue to read into the topic indepth and get a balanced idea is 'sad'


grunt F***ing grunt you dozy C***.

SplendidStuff Posted on 21/12/2007 23:15
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and the title is reffering to suspected terrorists in guantanamo, not asylum seekers.

That got mixed in by the ever enlightened hamster, and you are now runnign with it.

Do yourself a favour and read some more.

littlejimmy Posted on 21/12/2007 23:24
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"Granted, i have not sat and read through pages and pages of policies and reports, I'm not that sad."

S***, that's got me convinced.

Can you tell us the difference between an illegal immigrant and an asylum seeker, HE? I imagine it doesn't really matter to you.

HolgateEnd Posted on 21/12/2007 23:24
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Yes, the title refers to terrorists, but the post was on about the gvt giving £36m to people who shouldnt have been here anyway to get them to go home.


So maybe it is you, you self-righteous tosspot, who should read the threads in more depth rather than researching policies which shouldnt need to exist in the first place because the F*****s shouldnt be here. And I include the three (alleged) terrorists in that too.

grunt F***ing grunt you dozy C***.

SplendidStuff Posted on 21/12/2007 23:25
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Go and ask your aunty what she thinks, after all shes NATO.

My aunties in the power rangers.

HolgateEnd Posted on 21/12/2007 23:36
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Jimmy, there is no difference - they are all after the benefits and none of them should be here. That's obvious enough for the illegals, but as the asylum seekers should have sought asylum in the first safe country that they came to, they shouldnt be here either.

You're just being silly now Splendid. You see, my auntie is real and really does work for Nato. The Power Rangers is a made up tv programme so I can only conclude that you are completely full of S***, and so I should completely ignore your posts.

SplendidStuff Posted on 21/12/2007 23:36
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And to conclude todays class we learned that asylum seekers are 'F***ers' and they should not be here.


HolgateEnd Posted on 21/12/2007 23:39
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Correct SplendidStuff, you can have an A for working that out. Although you must pay a bit more attention to the original thread before dishing out written abuse like that.


SplendidStuff Posted on 21/12/2007 23:41
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Rich coming from you, who comes to conclusions based on incomplete information and what his aunty said.

HolgateEnd Posted on 21/12/2007 23:45
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'incomplete information'... just because I cant be arsed to research the ins and outs of a policy which we shouldnt need in the first place, and instead go by facts and figures quoted in various media publications doesnt make my information incomplete.

Its a bit hard to have an incomplete fact you muppet.

SplendidStuff Posted on 21/12/2007 23:50
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How do you know its a fact if you dont know all the evidence.

Come on lad , pull yer finger out.

You have provided nothing than exhibit aunty thats suggest you know anything of what you you are talking about. Infact the comment that asylum seekers are F***ers shows what you know.

Aunty wouldnt be pleased.

Posted on 21/12/2007 23:50
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His Auntie at NATO [:D] Classic. It's usually the bloke down the pub, or the plumber, but this one takes the biscuit. Definitely worth remembering for posterity.

You keep saying people who have "no right to be here." In fact, the right to seek asylum is enshrined in international laws to which the UK and every other basically civilised country is signed up. (Ask your Auntie about it.)

As for the £4000, it's part of the Voluntary Assisted Return and Reintegration Programme, run by the International Organisation for Migration (IOM) -- a global operation funded jointly by the UK and the EU. When it works, the VARRP is a rare, small-scale example of sustainable development in action, even though many of the small minority of asylum seekers who apply for it end up not seeing any of it anyway. Even when they do, don't get it in cash: it goes towards the expense of setting up their own business back home.

Think of it this way: at its best, it's a form of redistribution which goes some way towards making up for the billions of pounds worth of resources the UK government/multinationals steal from "Third World" countries all the time. And as far as The Taxpayer goes, I'd personally rather my taxes go towards helping refugees re-build their lives than fat cats, Trident, arms dealers and the Royal Family.

red_rebel Posted on 22/12/2007 00:05
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I think it should be pointed out that the evidence against these blokes (the Gitmo victims, not the double oppressed asylum seekers or economic migrants fooled lured by the capitalist dream) is almost entirely derived from torture.

I would shop each and every one of you for every crime under the sun after a few minutes of waterboarding and the old electrodes on the gonads treatment. Then what I said would be taken as FACT and turned into a Daily Mail expose of all you terrorist scum.

SplendidStuff Posted on 22/12/2007 00:07
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Holgates Aunty never told him about that.

HolgateEnd Posted on 22/12/2007 00:08
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And this from someone with no user-name???

1) To be honest, I couldnt give two S***s whether you believe that my auntie works at nato or not. I know that she does work there, and I know what she has told me about various issues and I am seriously worried about the state of our country, as are nato.

2) I would rather the government paid them nowt, and lowered the tax taken off my wage.

3) "In fact, the right to seek asylum is enshrined in international laws to which the UK and every other basically civilised country is signed up."......which is not exactly true, as they should only try to seek asylum in the first safe country they get to, which would have been long before they got to the UK.

4) And finally, the money is not "helping refugees to rebuild their lives" as you put it, as it is given to failed asylum seekers. You know, the ones that the government have decided have no right to be here.

borolad259 Posted on 22/12/2007 00:08
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Ideas for consideration.

Guantanamo is illegal under international law, full stop. If it weren't the tool of the most powerful nation on earth, the illegality would have been prosecuted.

A good friend of mine, who is a British pakistani, spends a good deal of time in the mountains betwen Pakistan and Afghanistan. He is a Muslim, and proud. He comes from a community where Ilive that has been shown to include people sympathetic to anti-west "terrorist" activities. He could easily be regarded as supicious. But the reason he is out there is his involvement with earthquake relief. Youmight recall a huge natural disaster out there last year.

Those obsessed with the cost of providing support to non Uk nationals might want to consider the millions of UK citizens, workers and emigres throughout the world. Should the Spanish government be denying health service and social security support to the many Brit ex-pats on the Costa?
On the balance sheet of what we have taken from the Indian sub-continent and Africa inour colonial past, both culturally and economically, we owe them S*** loads.

Finally, there's a good maxim to live by, which is a stretch for a lot of people, but it goes "From each according to their ability to each according to their needs".

HolgateEnd Posted on 22/12/2007 00:10
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red_rebel, who/what are you on about and calling terrorist scum???

TeessideCleveland Posted on 22/12/2007 00:10
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Revol_Tees seen as you think the likes of Goebbels would 'take me in' let me quote my post
'I do not have a problem with asylum seekers and feel there should be no limits set
If failed asylum seekers and illegal immigrants are kicked out NOW there wouldn't be a problem and the racists such as the B N P would have less to feed on'
I am appalled that you think I would in any way be swayed by monsters such as racists and fascists

SplendidStuff Posted on 22/12/2007 00:10
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Oh dear holgate.

Why would NATO be worried about England?

HolgateEnd Posted on 22/12/2007 00:15
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oh dear what???

Bukowski Posted on 22/12/2007 00:16
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"A good friend of mine, who is a British pakistani, spends a good deal of time in the mountains betwen Pakistan and Afghanistan. He is a Muslim, and proud. He comes from a community where Ilive that has been shown to include people sympathetic to anti-west "terrorist" activities. He could easily be regarded as supicious. But the reason he is out there is his involvement with earthquake relief. Youmight recall a huge natural disaster out there last year."

You don't actually know the real reason for him being out there though do you. He's hardly going to tell you if he's going over there to join a terrorist training camp or fight for the Taliban.

SplendidStuff Posted on 22/12/2007 00:16
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Oh dear, red rebel went righ tover your head, and you thought he was accusing you/us of being terrorist scum.

I dont have the time or energy to explain.

HolgateEnd Posted on 22/12/2007 00:19
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It did go right over my head, but I didnt think he was calling me or anyone on here a terrorist. I more meant to ask which thread in particular he was referring to.

borolad259 Posted on 22/12/2007 00:19
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Er, Bukowski, yes I do.

whoyadoin Posted on 22/12/2007 00:20
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Bring back the British Empire!

SplendidStuff Posted on 22/12/2007 00:41
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Lets enslave the imigrants, bring back the slave trade.

Revol_Tees Posted on 22/12/2007 01:38
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TeessideCleveland: apologies for lumping you in with Goebbels and the Nazis earlier on. My point was that the media deceive and manipulate people by creating the impression that failed asylum seekers are automatically "bogus". That's not the case at all. The vast majority of failed asylum applications I've seen or heard have been rejected by H.O. caseworkers and AIT judges who've been persuaded by H.O. solicitors that the slightest inconsistency or "improbability" in a story is reasonable grounds for throwing the whole thing out. The asylum seekers, with little or no legal aid to fight back, and sometimes without even a competent interpreter to communicate their version of events, don't stand a chance.

Grumpy_Paul Posted on 22/12/2007 02:03
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Regardless of your political or moral views on this matter,
Regardless of politics, civil rights etc.
let's keep it simple and ask one question,

What were they doing in the circumstances in which they were aprehended?
They could give no satisfactory answer, so given the current terrorism situation I reckon the yanks have a fair case, maybe not in the literal sense of law but hey the politicians are supposed to protect the general public.

They would be one hell of an outcry if one was released only to cause mayhem.
It's a very difficult situation where normal practice of law would always favour the terrorist.

Edit.

If you don't understand that you need to get off your high horses and understand where your interests and loyalties lie.
Unless of course you don't mind your wives and daughters being enshrouded in Berkahs

SplendidStuff Posted on 22/12/2007 02:35
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What a Berk-ah

Bukowski Posted on 22/12/2007 02:46
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Didn't you know? These people are from ethnic minorities. Therefore they are being oppressed.

Nevermind the fact that they are very probably dangerous Islamic fundamentalist fascists.

Grumpy_Paul Posted on 22/12/2007 02:53
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Opressed??
It depends on your perception and just how successful the brainwashing is.

I know where my bread is buttered

Bukowski Posted on 22/12/2007 03:10
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I see your sarcasm detector is well and truly switched off Grumpy_Paul. Read my post again.

onthemap Posted on 22/12/2007 04:01
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Some of the views on this thread are truly sickening. What will it take for us to treat fellow human beings with some respect.
It's sad it really is.

red_rebel Posted on 22/12/2007 09:25
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Let's keep it simple and ask these questions....

Is it right to detain people without charge, without legal representation, without contact with the outside world and torture them systematically for years on end?

Is it right to ship people across the globe to be tortured in secret camps maintained by shady military dicatorships of the type we have condemned for years for their barbarism?

Is it possible to square the use of evidence derived from torture with the idea that the war on terror is to defend a civilisation based on the rule of law?

If you can square it, if the case for Gitmo as a neccessary and defencible part of overall stategy to defend our apple pie way of life is so compelling then why do the US feel the need to place the camp in a a jurisdiction limbo beyond legal, political and constitutional accountability?


HolgateEnd Posted on 22/12/2007 09:58
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Red_Rebel, the very, very simple answer is that if they do (or may) pose a terrorist threat to this country, then the answer to all of your questions is 'yes'.

And if you think any different, just ask the people who were maimed or who lost loved ones in the 7/7 bombings.

If the Yanks keeping some potential terrorists in a camp in the middle of nowhere protects the people of this country, then I agree with what they doing.

Lets not forget, that if terrorists didnt exist, neither would Gitmo.

gravyboat Posted on 22/12/2007 10:39
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Holgate,

I am absolutely staggered by your last post. How have we got to the point whereby British citizens, enveloped in democracy for hundreds of years, a time which has including fighting 2 world wars to ensure this method of governance is not only upheld but spread across the world as the only correct method, is happy to answer yes to all those questions?

The point is that those people who are affected by the issues we are discussing are so far off your radar, that they may as well not be people.

Imagine a world turned upside down, in which Muslim states are the superpowers, and the poor, white majority who are seen as nothing other than 'potential terrorists', and are therefore fair game to be dealt with via methods outside any of international law.

Your opinion on the matter would be somewhat different I imagine.

Your comments regarding Gitmo, and Asylum are that of the typically insular, selfish white man.

"I'm alright me, and I don't want any of these darkies spoiling it for me"

The issues surrounding why they need to seek Asylum, for example, don't even enter your head. Which is the real problem we face, isn't it?


zzzzz Posted on 22/12/2007 10:48
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I believe in St George and Queen and Country.
I'm proud to be an Englishman and British and if I had to I'd fight what that stands for.

I support every man and women out there defending the flag in our name, wherever they are.

I'm also proud of our democracy which far from being perfect, is still the envy of the world. Our justice system is second to none and has and still is the model the world over.

I'm also proud of our tolerance and the support we give to oppressed and those in most need of it. IMO thats also also part of being British.

Guantanmo Bay has nothing to do with any of the above. Locking people up for years without trial has nothing to do with the above and any decent person should be ashamed of it.

Hand_In_Glove Posted on 22/12/2007 12:23
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HolgatesEnd is the reason why you wont list the benefits that asylum seekers receive simply because you don't actually know what benefits they actually receive?

Perhaps you should actually go and read up about seeking asylum, the factors behind it, the choices and decisions, what happens to them and so on before mouthing off like you actually do, ok?

Grumpy_Paul Posted on 22/12/2007 13:37
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Quote
"I am absolutely staggered by your last post. How have we got to the point whereby British citizens, enveloped in democracy for hundreds of years, a time which has including fighting 2 world wars to ensure this method of governance is not only upheld but spread across the world as the only correct method, is happy to answer yes to all those questions?"
Unquote

And the two world wars were 'clean'??
Different rules applied during those wars as is now the case.
Put simply I am more concerned about the safety and security of my family than I am about the civil rights of (probable) terrorists.
It's not as though they were just lifted from their homes, they were found in locations and circumstances for which they could not or would not offer a satisfactory explanation.

littlejimmy Posted on 22/12/2007 13:47
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GP, the fact is that your family is at more risk from a car accident than terrorism. Climate change is also a much bigger risk to our way of life than terrorism. The perception of risk has become skewed here, mainly through media scare stories. Despite what the powers that be want you to believe, the fact is that we are not at war. Ask yourself why these things are happening and why the government seem determined to destroy centuries-old civil liberties that weren't even rescinded during the 2 world wars. There are much bigger threats around to our way of life, and this fear of our women being forced to wear burkhas is frankly ludicrous.

The crux of all this is that these guys were never charged with anything. Why is that? No charges. No trials. Nothing. Keeping them locked up in such a place and torturing them has achieved what exactly? I'll tell you what it may have achieved - it has made more people angry and marginalised. Is that what we call winning hearts and minds? This black and white way of dealing with things - good v evil, etc. - just doesn't work, and ultimately aren't WE supposed to be the civilised ones? If we sink to these levels we are losing any argument we may have with fundamentalist extremists.

moxzin Posted on 22/12/2007 14:04
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"The perception of risk has become skewed here, mainly through media scare stories."

This is the Adam Curtis line from hell. The 'perception' of the risk doesn't need any help from the media, when there are real people trying to blow real things up in the name of a real ideology. Even if we just take the UK (which we shouldn't), there's been 8 attempted suicide bombings (4 successful, 4 not), a Transatlantic Bomb plot, and three car bombs - in the last two years. I don't need the media to spin that one for me.

"we are not at war"

Don't know where to start with that. If we're talking in the context of Guantanamo than yes "we" (the US, though) were very much at war in Afghanistan. That war, and the war in Iraq, is still on-going. There are constant threats to the UK. Not at war?

"this fear of our women being forced to wear burkhas is frankly ludicrous."

I thought you were liberal - isn't there supposed to be an atheist and feminist component to that? Or has post-modernism thrown it all out with the bathwater?

"Climate change is also a much bigger risk to our way of life than terrorism"

Ah. The real agenda, here. Well I don't think Al-Qaeda's attacks are carbon-neutral you know.

littlejimmy Posted on 22/12/2007 14:18
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Trust you, moxy.

I'm not denying (as you well know) that there are people out there who want to blow us up, but I do think that the risk to individuals and the risk to our much-vaunted way of life is over-stated. But as we know, FEAR is a great controller. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are actually occupations with insurgency and counter insurgency. But let's not get into semantics...oh sorry, that's your modus operandi.

Your last two "points" are nothing more than sophistry laden with needless sarcasm that don't actually make any point. As per bloody usual. I wasn't arguing about the rights and wrongs of wearing burkhas, I was arguing about something quite different. But you knew that already.

Merry Christmas.

moxzin Posted on 22/12/2007 14:28
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Same to you and your family [:)]

Grumpy_Paul Posted on 22/12/2007 14:36
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Jimmy

re - your 1347hrs post

Try telling that to the families of the victims of 7/7.



A genuine Merry Christmas to you and your family

trugggg Posted on 22/12/2007 14:44
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I agree.
Voted labour all my life because i believe in their policies- not so sure now. I cannot bring myself to vote tory because they have less interest in me than Labour- they look after their own and judging by their record in the employment stakes, they don't care who they hurt to do it.

I might try Lib Dems- seem to be the only choice left.

littlejimmy Posted on 22/12/2007 14:56
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GP,

Such emotive arguments don't make anything you say more valid. For me it's like hating all Japanese and German people for what some of their ancestors did in WW2.

But there we are. We never see eye to eye on these things. If we did, there wouldn't be interesting threads like this!

Anyway, same to you mate. All the best for the festive season.

[:)]

king_hellfire Posted on 22/12/2007 15:17
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The head of MI5 says that terrorism poses a threat to every single person in the Country.That doesn't worry me though.I got married last week.