permalink for this thread : http://search.catflaporama.com/post/browse/2533466
oooooo Posted on 21/03/2011 12:01
"Two-thirds of Britons not religious"

"Among respondents who identified themselves as Christian, fewer than half said they believed Jesus Christ was a real person who died, came back to life and was the son of God."

Why would you say you were Christian if you didn't believe that? Isn't it pretty much the definition of being Christian?


Link: link

speckyget Posted on 21/03/2011 12:04
.

Conjuring trick with bones perhaps?

could_it_be Posted on 21/03/2011 12:20
.100% of athiests

100% of athiests on this board obsessed with religion

dont understand why, if you were so utterly sure of the absence of any higher being, you would be so obsessed with it

Steer Posted on 21/03/2011 12:26
.100% of athiests

It's because a lot of people consider them selves British, and consider Britian a Christian Country.

So, no, many people are not true Christians.

What I dont get is why the Athiests go so far as running poster compaigns just to get people to tick none for religion on the census.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 21/03/2011 12:31
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

dont trust the British Humanist Association (BHA) basically.

was 'they believed Jesus Christ was a real person who died, came back to life and was the son of God. ' that a direct question?

I am sure some christians dont believe in adam and eve ffs

Buddy Posted on 21/03/2011 12:34
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

Allow me to help you out RAZ, as I'm in an "exceptions" kind of mood.

If you don't sign up to the Apostles' Creed then you really ARE picking and choosing. It's like saying you're a footballer but that you think the goals are marked by a flag at each corner.


Link: Rules

peterkay Posted on 21/03/2011 12:35
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

The British Humanist Association (BHA), which commissioned the poll, basically a poll produced by a bunch of athesists[V]

Manfriday Posted on 21/03/2011 12:36
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

do we get a choice to pick and choose what parts of a religion you think are true and which parts are made up?

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 21/03/2011 12:38
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

Buddy you do talki such utter shyte sometimes [^]

oooooo Posted on 21/03/2011 12:46
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

Do you reckon they made it up, Peter?

Personally, I'm obsessed with science but I'd have to agree I'm pretty interested in people saying they are religious when it turns out that they aren't. That's pretty weird. Anyway that was discussed in length previously on another thread but thought you might want to see this survey.

Buddy, I thought Apostle's Creed was played by Carl Weathers in Rocky. [B)]

Boromart Posted on 21/03/2011 12:53
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

spot on Buddy. You either believe the bible or you don't. It is either all sacred scripture or it is all fiction. I'm fed up with science proving parts of hte bible to be bollox then organised religion moving the goalposts and claiming that certain parts of the bible were 'not meant literally'.

It's about time this country reformed. Why on earth should the church of England have seats in the House of Lords. The people want a secular state.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 21/03/2011 12:54
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

'thought you might want to see this survey.'

yes i would like to see it. where is it?

British Humanist Association (BHA) have a job and to do that job they need to direct such surveys to people to get the answers they want. I was interested to know how they worded their own questions.

i.e. 'Do You Think Jesus Christ Was Born On 25th December?

answer 'No'

conclusion: this person must not be a christian then!

ffs!

Buddy Posted on 21/03/2011 12:57
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

"It is either all sacred scripture or it is all fiction."

I'm not entirely sure I fully agree with that. I can quite accept "delusional rabble rouser murdered by oppressive occupying force after pointless show trial" - plus ca change, and all that - but I don't see any need to put a spiritual interpretation on it.

TheSmogMonster Posted on 21/03/2011 12:57
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

I find this stuff interesting to be honest.

You only have to look as far as Raz in this thread to see that people who consider themselves Christian know XXXXXX all about it.

Muttley Posted on 21/03/2011 12:59
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

"Personally, I'm obsessed with science"

Really? What science do you do? Do you have a shed? Or do you just mean I watch Prof. Brian Cox on the telly and take a couple of paracetamol afterwards?

Why are atheists obsessed with what other people believe? Do they not believe in tolerance? Why campaign for people to "join them", they are becoming a tad evangelical, wouldn't you say?

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 21/03/2011 13:02
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

TheSmogMonster - How presumptuous [V]

TheSmogMonster Posted on 21/03/2011 13:03
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

"Why are atheists obsessed with what other people believe? Do they not believe in tolerance? Why campaign for people to "join them", they are becoming a tad evangelical, wouldn't you say?"

Is that the pot calling the kettle black?7

Sorry Raz, it's not presumptuous when you don't even understand the relation of the creed(s) to faith.

I know you believe Dark Matter or whatever to be God, it's just I know you'd put Christian down on the census form even though you don't believe in a literal Jesus.

Buddy Posted on 21/03/2011 13:04
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

Nothing wrong with being evangelical provided you're not hurting anybody. And anyway, you only need to replace "atheists" with the name of any religion you care to mention and the sentiment is exactly the same.

Some of us are slightly confused, in a low-level sort of way, that as a species we've managed to get to a point where we can actually leave the planet we evolved on and out of, and yet still have a vast majority (probably, I haven't counted) who believe any old woo from the person who shouts loudest.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 21/03/2011 13:07
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

''What is your religion?''

at least the question above does not tell people how they should answer and the fact it is optional suggests it will not be used on any heavy policy decisions.

British Humanist Association (BHA) should take not and allow people to answer how they want

the_dude_abides Posted on 21/03/2011 13:09
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

incorrect buddy, atheism isn't a religion of any form so how can you substitute it with another


Razmond_HWDR Posted on 21/03/2011 13:10
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

buddy is correct atheists are just as bad as they have a belief too, they believe in no good. You question that and they'll shoot you down. fact

Buddy Posted on 21/03/2011 13:11
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

I meant in the paragraph wot Mutters wrote Mr de_abides.

oooooo Posted on 21/03/2011 13:13
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

Raz, the questions follow:

"The England and Wales poll asked four questions: ‘What is your religion? (This question is optional)’; ‘Are you religious?’; those that answered ‘Christian’ in the first question were asked ‘Do you believe that Jesus Christ was a real person who died and came back to life, and was the son of God?’; and ‘Other than ceremonies involving family and friends, to which you were invited (e.g. weddings, baptisms, etc.), approximately when did you last attend a place of worship for religious reasons?’."

...and the link is to the survey results conducted by YouGov so I think your claims that they are fake are your usual rubbish.

Muttley,

"Really? What science do you do? Do you have a shed? Or do you just mean I watch Prof. Brian Cox on the telly and take a couple of paracetamol afterwards?"

I read a lot of books on science, hence my obsession with it. I think you are allowed to have an interest in something without having to be a professional. Or do you turn up to the boro match in full kit and boots hoping to get a game?

"Why are atheists obsessed with what other people believe?"

I'm not. It's people who say they believe in something but don't really. I mean, why fake your belief in something which you think is fake?


Link: link to results further down page

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 21/03/2011 13:14
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

TheSmogMonster i have never stated to be a christian, to be fair.

I said dark matter could be deemed to be god like, as we are unable to prove its existance but we know it is all around us (without the proof)

TheSmogMonster Posted on 21/03/2011 13:15
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

Atheism is the absence of belief.

You don't argue that nothing is something because it can be defined in terms as 'not something'.

I know you think your at the cutting edge of thought Raz, but people got way past that level of argument 100s of years ago.

"TheSmogMonster i have never stated to be a christian, to be fair"

You are not a Christian, but you'll put it on your census form.

borobuddah Posted on 21/03/2011 13:18
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

God botherers accusing atheists of being intolerant and evangelical?

I had to smile at that.

the_dude_abides Posted on 21/03/2011 13:18
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

[rle]raz


'atheism is a belief'

ffs, neanderthal level of rationale

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 21/03/2011 13:20
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

i NEVER said it was fake, i said it was targeted. wasnt it conducted by 1,900 people? thats a targeted audience for a start.

Muttley Posted on 21/03/2011 13:21
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

The point I am trying to make is that (as Buddy alluded to) Atheists behaving like the adherents of any other religion.

"The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which." George Orwell, Animal Farm.

TheSmogMonster Posted on 21/03/2011 13:22
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

So we're adding sampling to the list of things you don't understand in this thread Raz?

Muttley; then you shouldn't have a problem with it.

oooooo Posted on 21/03/2011 13:24
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

Raz, I seem to remember you 'not understanding surveys' from a previous thread.

You said they targeted their questions at people who would answer in a certain way. That would be a fake survey then, as it wouldn't be a true one?

Why do you think YouGov decided to throw their entire professional reputation away and destroy the integrity of every survey they have ever been commissioned to do? Why would they choose to do that?

The answer is that you don't understand surveys. [:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

oooooo Posted on 21/03/2011 13:29
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

Hey Muttley, atheism has as much in common with religion as being a football fan does.

Wouldn't want to put someone to death for not believing in atheism.

Wouldn't throw them in jail either (blasphemy laws, anyone?)

Wouldn't get a position in power in the government for being an atheist.

Wouldn't get any tax breaks for being an atheist.

But yeah, *identical*, as you say.

Muttley Posted on 21/03/2011 13:31
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

I don't "have a problem with it (Atheists behaving like religious zealots)", I find it amusing.

LeitrimBoro Posted on 21/03/2011 13:36
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

The Atheism Inquisition Strikes again.


the_dude_abides Posted on 21/03/2011 13:42
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

[rle]shame 'atheism' wasn't the dominant 'belief' system going around for the last 1000 years, just think, with nothing to fight over we might have advanced as a civilization a lot more than we have

luckily for us, almost every country has its very own individual deity to cause wars, intolerance, hatred and bigotry

oooooo Posted on 21/03/2011 13:47
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

LeitrimBoro, perhaps you are being slightly over-dramatic there. [:D]

TheSmogMonster Posted on 21/03/2011 13:50
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

"The Atheism Inquisition Strikes again."

Still got a lot of catching up to do in the bodycount stakes though haven't they?

Muttley, I find it funny that anyone would try to prove a proposition based on faith with logic.

Boromart Posted on 21/03/2011 13:51
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

fair point buddy, there are some historically accurate statements in the bible. With a big sprinkling of magic on top that JK Rowling would have been happy to think up.

Boromart Posted on 21/03/2011 13:53
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

Muttley, evangelicalism is about spreading a belief system. Science (and the associated atheism) is the opposite of a belief system.

superstu Posted on 21/03/2011 13:54
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

"The Atheism Inquisition Strikes again."

Shamefully misleading use of language that.

Can't believe people who do have a religion or a faith are so threatened by it being questioned that they have to liken the actions of any atheist asking questions to forced conversions, 1000s being tortured and 100s being burnt alive in the middle ages.

It only adds to the hypocrisy that those conversions, tortures and murders were carried out in the name of the religion these atheists are questioning.

Muttley Posted on 21/03/2011 13:54
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

"shame 'atheism' wasn't the dominant 'belief' system going around for the last 1000 years, just think, with nothing to fight over we might have advanced as a civilization a lot more than we have"

Ah one of my favourite untruths that gets trotted out by "the scientific lobby" [^][:D][^]

Look up the top ten wars in order of number of fatalities and then come back and tell me how many were "religious wars".

I'll give you a clue. It's not very many.

LeitrimBoro Posted on 21/03/2011 13:56
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

The usual suspects in the Inquisition Squad I see.


superstu Posted on 21/03/2011 13:58
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

If it makes you feel better to pretend you're being persecuted then carry on.

Thank goodness we live in a country where you're free to believe whatever you want and I'm free to ask any question I want without fear of being imprisoned/tortured/killed.

LeitrimBoro Posted on 21/03/2011 14:00
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

Don't oppress me. You bully you.

Buddy Posted on 21/03/2011 14:01
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

I think that was sarcasm from the_dude Mutters. He's on your side of the communion rail.

Boromart Posted on 21/03/2011 14:01
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

"
Look up the top ten wars in order of number of fatalities and then come back and tell me how many were "religious wars".

I'll give you a clue. It's not very many."


Soooooo, to put it another way, SOME of the 10 bloodiest wars ever have been in the name of one religion or another! You see this is an affirmation of the good that religion brings???? How many wars have been fought in the name of Atheism?

Fearless_Fish Posted on 21/03/2011 14:03
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

Harking back to the original point somewhat...

When my girlfriend was filling in her part of the census she asked why I'd chosen "No religion". I said it's because I don't believe in God. She then said "Yeah but you were christened". I'd noticed that she'd ticked Christianity so I asked her if she believed in God: "Dunno".

oooooo Posted on 21/03/2011 14:10
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

Fearless, that's exactly what this whole census campaign is trying to get at.

Dibzzz Posted on 21/03/2011 14:18
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

This is what religion can do to people.[:D]


Link: pmsl ;o)

zaphod Posted on 21/03/2011 16:04
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

Evangelical means belief in the truth of the Bible.
Evangelistic means trying to convert people.
Please use the words correctly.

Atheism means you believe there is no God (as opposed to agnosticism). It's as clear a belief system as any religion.

Steel-City_Smoggy Posted on 21/03/2011 16:08
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

So two thirds of the country don't celebrate christmas and easter then!! Absolute bull

Atticus Posted on 21/03/2011 16:09
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

"What I dont get is why the Athiests go so far as running poster compaigns just to get people to tick none for religion on the census"

Really? You don't get that? Well what if some people who lived in London just decided to put Glasgow as their address? What if 10% of men decided to put themselves down as being women? What if a load of teenagers decided they felt a bit older so put themselves down as 30 year olds?

The point of the census is to get an ACCURATE picture of the country as it is today. It is used to build services and direct spending around the country. If you cannot understand why it is necessary to be honest and precise then you should really ask your carer to fill in your census for you.

Dibzzz Posted on 21/03/2011 16:09
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

Zaphod

Not really as atheism doesn't have a lead figure or scripture to follow or dogma. So not a belief in the context you put it.

oooooo Posted on 21/03/2011 16:13
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

Why do people insist on trying to pretend that atheism is a 'belief' system?

"I don't believe in god" is NOT the same as "I believe there is no God"

Absence of belief in a god does not mean my atheism is a matter of faith. And a good job too.

Dibzzz Posted on 21/03/2011 16:13
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

[^]

the_dude_abides Posted on 21/03/2011 16:14
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

celebrating christmas has almost nothing to do with religion, its more about celebrating life and a family get together

yes, christmas started off that way, but it no way now do people think of baby jesus when opening xmas boxes and eating xmas grub

no more than kids dont give a toss about jesus dying in some cave at easter, its all about buying chocolate eggs

oooooo Posted on 21/03/2011 16:15
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

"So two thirds of the country don't celebrate christmas and easter then!! Absolute bull"

There were four questions. One asked if you believed in Jesus as the son of god. Now if you say no, it doesn't matter how many Boots 3 for 2 offers you stock up on for relatives prior to December 25th, you ain't a Christian.

Dibzzz Posted on 21/03/2011 16:16
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

I love Christmas, like many other atheists.[^]

zaphod Posted on 21/03/2011 16:21
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

A belief system doesn't need to have a leader or a Supreme Being. I don't think Buddhism requires belief in God (IIRC) & certainly Confucianism doesn't.

Dibzzz Posted on 21/03/2011 16:23
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

Christianity;

The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

Buddy Posted on 21/03/2011 16:25
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

evangelical

Pronunciation:/iːvanˈdʒɛlɪk(ə)l, ɛv-/
adjective

- of or according to the teaching of the gospel or the Christian religion.
- of or denoting a tradition within Protestant Christianity emphasizing the authority of the Bible, personal conversion, and the doctrine of salvation by faith in the Atonement.
- zealous in advocating or supporting a particular cause:
she was evangelical about organic farming

Carry on.

Buddy Posted on 21/03/2011 16:28
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

Oooh no, as we've mentioned atheists liking Christmas, don't carry on for a minute, until you've listened to this (if you haven't already heard it, obviously. Otherwise carry on anyway.).


Link: I really like Christmas

Buddy Posted on 21/03/2011 16:32
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

(talk amongst yourselves, it's six and a half minutes, they'll be back in a minute)

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 21/03/2011 16:45
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

'So two thirds of the country don't celebrate christmas and easter then!! Absolute bull'

Religion's best kept out of Christmas, in fact, I thought it already had been. Midnight mass has disappeared in all but a few churches, nativities have been replaced by fancy flashing lights, the poor are largely ignored, the unemployed criticised, the old kept away from the festivities.

How many Christians do we have on here who have absolutely nothing to do with the so called teachings of Christ?

You may claim to be Christian, but like so many on here, you choose to ignore the Christian way of life taught to me as a child, before I rejected the nonsense.



uglyrumour Posted on 21/03/2011 17:16
yougov survey

A brief look at Wikipedia shows there are plenty of subtly different ways of defining agnosticism, including, intriguingly, agnostic atheism.

My personal position is one of atheism. I don't know of any convincing direct or indirect evidence for the supernatural. I don't believe in anything for which there is not or there cannot be any evidence. I think that's roughly the position taken by Pierre-Simon Laplace in the 18th Century.

I find Agnosticism as it is commonly understood seems to be a bit of a cop out. If you reject hypotheses for which there is no evidence, why make a special exception for the supernatural?

As a lapsed Physicist, the idea of dark matter that was alluded to earlier makes me very uncomfortable. The idea of inventing an undetectable substance to make observations of motions consistent with current theories of gravity seems a step too far. I wonder whether it will go the same way as the 19th Century concept of the Ether? I suspect the observed anomolies might mean we are on the verge of another scientific revolution. Horizon's "Is Everything We Know About The Universe Wrong?" discussed this rather well. Sooner our later, there will be some experimental or observation evidence to sort the question of Dark Matter one way or another.

Anyway, some good football played on Saturday, I think Mogga will succeed in turning things around ready for a promotion push next season.






Link: types of agnosticism

zaphod Posted on 21/03/2011 17:30
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

The Concise Oxford only contains the first 2 definitions. Did you make up the third?

north_east_invader Posted on 21/03/2011 17:34
yougov survey

If you don't understand what the BHA is getting at, you don't get the purpose of the BHA. In general they don't care and would completely not care a jot any more the second that religion is no longer given exception, or special privilege or has any influence over the state.

It campaigns for a secular society and I for one completely agree with that. Outside of that I do not care a jot what other people believe, it is their right to do so. Just as its my right to believe completely wholeheartedly with every cell of my body that there is almost certainly no god.

oooooo Posted on 21/03/2011 17:36
yougov survey

Dark matter reminds me a little of Ptolemy's Epicycles, used to fudge the earth-centric theory of the universe/solar system.

uglyrumour Posted on 21/03/2011 17:46
yougov survey

spot on ooooo [^]

There seem to be 3 main theistic positions:

"the god of the gaps": a shrinking field I am afraid

"god lit the blue touch paper and retired to a safe distance": a variant of god of the gaps I am afraid

"the received truth of scripture": unless you accept the whole thing literally, you are back to picking and choosing what is allegorical and what is true. That seems to be a very difficult balancing act, but there are a lot of very fine scientists who seem to be able to carry it off.

Boromart Posted on 21/03/2011 18:19
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

"Atheism means you believe there is no God (as opposed to agnosticism). It's as clear a belief system as any religion." - It's a bollox argument though. To claim there are just 3 camps :
- Theists - Those who truly believe in God
- Agnostics - Those who don't know
- Atheists - those who truly believe in god.

It is more a sliding scale. If 1 are the people that belief ever word of the scripture tehy read, and 10 are those people who hand on heart believe there is absolutely no possibility of a god, then I suggest there are very few 10s and millions of 1s. Most Atheists reside on the scale at 9.99999. We are scientifically minded people and accept that you cannot entirely rule out the concept of a god until you prove otherwise. You can never prove a negative so you should never be a 10.

That doesn't however make us Agnostic, and it doesn't make our reasoning a 'belief' system for it is founded in science and fact, not on hocus pocus and stories. If anything it is a dis-belief system...disbelief in how people can still believe that supernatural bollox

Buddy Posted on 21/03/2011 18:24
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

*sigh*


Link: Oxford

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 22/03/2011 07:48
yougov survey

'It campaigns for a secular society and I for one completely agree with that. Outside of that I do not care a jot what other people believe,'

so you completely agree with campaigning for a non-religious society but outside that you don’t care what other people believe.

Right well its ok to campaign then without preaching to people that if they are not a fully committed person in a certain religion then they must say that they are not religious.

just try not to be patronising, your silly little survey is only a snapshot of the views of the British isles and could easily be misrepresentation what people really think.

north_east_invader Posted on 22/03/2011 08:20
yougov survey

my survey ? I didn't conduct any survey Raz. I've not even read the survey.

I'll admit maybe my choice of word was wrong, lets substitute "society" for "state".

Keep religion out of the state and I'll keep out of religion - lets get a restraining order, the state is not allowed within 500 yards of religion at any time. [:D]

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 22/03/2011 08:27
yougov survey

should the state pay for the funding for the BHA?

north_east_invader Posted on 22/03/2011 08:33
yougov survey

"should the state pay for the funding for the BHA?"

Absolutely not - why should it ?

Atticus Posted on 22/03/2011 08:35
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

"You can never prove a negative so you should never be a 10."

You don't have to prove a negative. The onus is not on me to prove there is not a god, it is on the believers to prove there is.

I've never seen a human fly and I'm not about to prove that none of us can, but if there is someone out there with the evidence to the contrary I'm all ears.

I'm a 10. Unwaveringly.

north_east_invader Posted on 22/03/2011 08:36
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

Atticus [^]

All hail Russel's teapot.


Link: Russell's teapot

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 22/03/2011 08:39
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

'You don't have to prove a negative. The onus is not on me to prove there is not a god, it is on the believers to prove there is.'

religion is about faith, which means they do not need to prove anything to anyone, or do you not understand faith?

north_east_invader Posted on 22/03/2011 08:40
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

"do you not understand faith?"

Yes, but do you not understand that science DOES NOT NEED to disprove the existence of God.

And here for the newcomers to this board is where the circle of Raz begins........

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 22/03/2011 08:43
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

i have never said science requires a need to disprove god.


north_east_invader Posted on 22/03/2011 08:47
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

"i have never said science requires a need to disprove god"

Fair enough then. I retract my question [:D]

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 22/03/2011 08:50
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

maybe you just need to understand that the onus isnt on people with faith to prove anything.


i have faith that middlesbrough will win the premier league one day... is the onus really on me to prove that that will happen... hmmmm.

north_east_invader Posted on 22/03/2011 08:52
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

"maybe you just need to understand that the onus isnt on people with faith to prove anything."

I don't care what they prove or not. I only care when their superstitious beliefs are used to justify policy or integrated with the state in any way. That's it, nothing more than that.

It is clear to me which conclusion any logical scientific approach leads to unquestioningly ... ... face facts man, boro are NEVER going to win the premier league [:D][:D]

Boromart Posted on 22/03/2011 08:55
yougov survey

"just try not to be patronising, your silly little survey" - erm, isn't calling ir 'your little survey' just a tad patronising?

"...is only a snapshot of the views of the British isles and could easily be misrepresentation what people really think." - whereas peoples misunderstanding of what being religious is has misrepresented this populous for a long time. Maybe this will add a bit of balance and get a more accurate view. People put christian because that is what they think they are supposed to be, because their parents christened them. But they don't even know if their is a god, never go to church, never pray and never read the bible.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 22/03/2011 09:01
yougov survey

'it is on the believers to prove there is. '

you agreed with that point.

which is what i have been referring to

people with faith dont have to prove anything.

north_east_invader Posted on 22/03/2011 09:03
yougov survey

"you agreed with that point."

Technically I was agreeing with the point that science does not have to disprove the existence of God, but I see where the confusion lies.

zaphod Posted on 22/03/2011 09:04
yougov survey

Everyone knows with surveys that you can tailor the questions to get the result you want.

Rayman Posted on 22/03/2011 09:04
yougov survey

I'm surprised at the high figure of 33% believers.
I suppose that a Marxist would say that rejection of religion is all part of the modernisation process, after all we do tend to regard religious countries as being backward.
However the part which interests me is whether people need to believe in something. I'm concerned when people reject a faith and then start believing in even more ridiculous icons, Lady GaGa, Dawkins, and so on.

Boromart Posted on 22/03/2011 09:05
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

I like your analogy with Middlesbrough wining the prem league.

It is like saying I Really, really wish Boro could win the prem some day, it is unbelievably unlikey and all evidence points towards it not happenning but it would be really nice and give me a warm glow in my tummy.

Or to put it in god-terms...

I Really, really wish that there is a god, who would protect me and hold my hand through life, and in death let me go to this cool place to play for eternity. it is unbelievably unlikey and all evidence points towards it not being true but it would be really nice and give me a warm glow in my tummy.

north_east_invader Posted on 22/03/2011 09:06
yougov survey

Dawkins put in the same bracket as Lady GaGa ... now I have seen it all I think [:D]

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 22/03/2011 09:07
yougov survey

aye the confusion arose when you put a thumbs up to the whole comment made, and i was referring to part of it, which was clearly wrong... something you failed to point out.

north_east_invader Posted on 22/03/2011 09:08
yougov survey

"something you failed to point out"

Yes Raz. And something I have NO issue in correcting.

Buddy Posted on 22/03/2011 09:08
yougov survey

Just on the subject of proof versus faith, it may be worth quoting Douglas Adams:


Link: Puff of logic

zaphod Posted on 22/03/2011 09:09
yougov survey

"a Marxist would say that rejection of religion is all part of the modernisation process".

Alternatively, everyone else would say that rejection of Marxism is all part of the modernisation process.[:P]

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 22/03/2011 09:11
yougov survey

Douglas Adams. Why?

Atticus Posted on 22/03/2011 09:13
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

"I Really, really wish that there is a god, who would protect me and hold my hand through life, and in death let me go to this cool place to play for eternity. it is unbelievably unlikey and all evidence points towards it not being true but it would be really nice and give me a warm glow in my tummy."

This isn't religion. This isn't the same as believing the teachings of a religion, reading the scriptures, studying the history and leading your life according to what the prophets of that religion says.

If you want to believe in a Flying Spaghetti Monster it makes no difference to me. It is when people use that Monster to start infringing the rights of others and saying who can do what with their lives that I have a problem.

Incidentally if you don't read the scriptures and follow the teachings, and just want a warm glow when you sleep at night, you are no more a Christian than you are a Jedi, and you're only fooling yourself if you write it on the census.

SmogOnTheRhine Posted on 22/03/2011 09:13
yougov survey

Zaphod, I think you'll find that anyone that had actually read Marx would say that he was an extremely prescient person who has much more to say about modern society than any religion ever could.

On the other hand, those that haven't read any Marx can just dismiss him as a crank.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 22/03/2011 09:15
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

'don't read the scriptures and follow the teachings'

if you dont then you will never need to be forgiven.

I dont think you fully understand religion and what it asks of people to follow it.

but do carry on [^]

Atticus Posted on 22/03/2011 09:18
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

The very fact is asks anything of people to follow it is a massive red warning light to me.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 22/03/2011 09:23
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

it asks it doesnt tell, it asks very little, and people can take from it what they will.

big difference.




north_east_invader Posted on 22/03/2011 09:25
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

"it asks it doesnt tell"

Yet the number of times it has been used as a justification of things ... "because it says so in the bible", "because god told me to"


Link: stoned to death

Atticus Posted on 22/03/2011 09:28
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

If it asks so little why are you using that as a point of information as to why I don't understand religion? If it is so insignificant then my understanding is hardly hindered, is it?

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 22/03/2011 09:31
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

Atticus it is simple as christianity is about forgiveness, if all chrisitans followed scripture and are only classed as christians if they followed them then forgiveness would never be an issue.

you are too isolate in your understanding of what religion means.

but do carry on [^]

Atticus Posted on 22/03/2011 09:33
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

What on earth is up with you and the thumbs?

I am too isolate?!

BUT DO CARRY ON [^]

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 22/03/2011 10:03
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

stoned to death ... nice one lets bring out the extremists

superstu Posted on 22/03/2011 10:04
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

"it asks it doesnt tell, it asks very little, and people can take from it what they will.

big difference."

Aye, remember when Moses came down Mount Sinai with his ten requests? "Guys we should totally follow these or not, whatever, your choice."

Rayman Posted on 22/03/2011 10:17
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

"Alternatively, everyone else would say that rejection of Marxism is all part of the modernisation process"

(I have to keep popping out, as it were)
I'm not sure that they have had any Marxism to reject! From my earliest days I was force fed a ridiculous set of stories and parables at school, sunder school, and church, by a laughable bunch of four walled christians, who when they weren't trying to instill the fear of God in you were busy "knowing" each other's wives and making dodgy business deals. I'm sure that Catholics had it even worse and respect to those of you who escaped.
I much admire the basic Christian idea of love and co-operate with your fellow man. But the rest of it made no sense even from the age of five.
As for Karlo's ideas, well they remained a secret until adulthood. Too dangerous for our kids though, since they may reject the recently collapsed market economy theory.

Fearless_Fish Posted on 22/03/2011 10:22
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

Raz - do you agree that policy should be partially dictated by Christian belief?

zaphod Posted on 22/03/2011 10:27
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

Rayman, religion is clearly not becoming extinct, but Marxism is definitely on its last legs, as you would expect of a philosophy based on 19th Century industrial developments & a flawed "solution" to its problems, combined with the laughable dialectical materialism.

Rayman Posted on 22/03/2011 10:35
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

I don't think I said religion is on it's last legs, in fact there is a definite parallell with smoking. As we reject them both the markets expand elsewhere in poorer countries.
Neither is Karlo's philosophy on it's last legs. It remains there, to be misunderstood, abused, or whatever.
However I'm not sure about the idea of writing it off as a suspect, old fashioned, philosophy. Pre Roman Levantshire was hardly a sophisticated by our own standards.

zaphod Posted on 22/03/2011 10:39
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

Fearless, which policies are being dictated even partially by religious belief?

Rayman Posted on 22/03/2011 10:44
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

If I may come in here, Education.

zaphod Posted on 22/03/2011 10:45
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

Please be more specific.

Rayman Posted on 22/03/2011 10:46
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

Specifically, Education policies are partially influenced by religion.

zaphod Posted on 22/03/2011 10:49
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

Which policies? Religious assemblies are optional, if parents choose to opt their kids out.

Fearless_Fish Posted on 22/03/2011 10:51
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

I don't know. But from the article:

"The humanists say data which might indicate a greater amount of religious belief than actually exists, is being used to justify faith schools, and the continuing presence of Anglican bishops in the House of Lords."

I don't know because I don't quite care enough to research it, but what qualifies Anglican bishops to be in the House of Lords? Is it their prominent position in religion that allows them in?

Rayman Posted on 22/03/2011 10:52
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

Whilst I try to import some files from my old PC to this one, can I just say that this area is festooned with religious schools. I accept tht some have a open door policy, but the religious schools remain.

zaphod Posted on 22/03/2011 10:57
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

Faith schools are there because parents want them. They are usually over-subscribed. Is the BHA opposed to giving parents what they want? There's nothing to prevent the BHA setting up humanist schools. There are actually 2 masonic schools (which I know is not the same).

The bishops in the House of Lords are an anachronism, but then so is the HoL itself. They have no influence on policy & will presumably go in the next constitutional reform.

Rayman Posted on 22/03/2011 11:01
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

I can't speak for the BHA, I don't believe in them either.
This is where we come to the rub. Faith schools aren't there because parents want them, yet faith schools seem to, in general, be more successful, thus parents want to send their children there!

superstu Posted on 22/03/2011 11:02
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

The house of lords has no influence on policy? Think you might be exagerating a bit there.

Homosexuals rights. You asked if the BHA was opposed to giving parents what they want. Would you be opposed to letting homosexuals do what they want? A lot of same sex couples want to get married. At the moment, because of the law of the land, even more modern and liberal churches that would like to include gay members of the community and allow them to marry aren't able to do so.

zaphod Posted on 22/03/2011 11:07
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

Rayman, faith schools are indeed there because parents choose to send their kids there. If parents didn't want them, they'd be forced to close. There is lots of choice in most areas.


Rayman Posted on 22/03/2011 11:12
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

I'll stick with my opinion that education policies are partially influenced by religion then.

(Do the British Humanist Association know anything useful like how to convert XP outlook express messages on one PC into Outlook W7 on another machine?)

TheSmogMonster Posted on 22/03/2011 11:18
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

I love how Raz gets involved again completely ignoring the questions asked in his first stint.

As for faith schools, isn't there a perception that they are better schools, that the kids benefit from the extra funding that comes with it?

north_east_invader Posted on 22/03/2011 11:23
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

"Rayman, faith schools are indeed there because parents choose to send their kids there. If parents didn't want them, they'd be forced to close. There is lots of choice in most areas."

Thats a massive leap zaphod, and I think its becoming less true. A lot of religious schools are coming into being so they can indoctrinate the kids - they are "investing" in their own future - paying for and getting the resources and teachers in to deliver results in order to make them more attractive is in their interest.

Any system that allows ANYONE (religious or otherwise) with enough cash to set up a school to mould kids in their own image is one of the most abhorrent things that exists in this country today if you ask me.

I'm looking straight at you Mr Vardy.

Boromart Posted on 22/03/2011 11:26
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

the church of england has a number of seats in the house of Lords so all of our laws are being meddled with by religion.

Boromart Posted on 22/03/2011 11:31
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

religion has unfortunately been historically intertwined with schooling. It is a difficult cycle to break. They have extra funding and a longer history which gives them an advantage.

Eventually however, as our nation begins to fully accept and adopt the truth of atheism I foresee a time when these faith schools will be in the minority. It may take another 50 years but I believe it will happen.

Rayman Posted on 22/03/2011 11:32
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

Is Vardy still on the go? I remember him specifically being mentioned in a book by a Grauniad journalist. Links to cash, academies, Tony Blur, and so on. Haven't heard anything since.

north_east_invader Posted on 22/03/2011 11:35
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

Is Vardy still on the go ?


Link: *shudder*

Rayman Posted on 22/03/2011 11:57
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

I'm obliged Mr Invader! thanks!
Blimey!

zaphod Posted on 22/03/2011 12:01
British Humanist Association (BHA) ffs

Boromart, faith schools are already in the minority, especially at secondary level.

uglyrumour Posted on 22/03/2011 12:01
convert XP outlook express messages on one PC into Outlook

I am agnostic as to whether the BHA knows but microsoft seems to.




Link: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook-help/imp

Boromart Posted on 22/03/2011 13:18
convert XP outlook express messages on one PC into Outlook

zaphod. Religions want to indoctrinate early. They put the effort into faith schools at a primary school level.....where it can do the most 'damage'.

Bernie_is_banned Posted on 22/03/2011 13:32
.100% of athiests

"100% of athiests on this board obsessed with religion"

Get it right. It's Christian religion they are obsessed with. You'll wait a long time for one of them to come on here and start saying vile things about the prophet Mohammed (Peace be upon him).


Razmond_HWDR Posted on 22/03/2011 13:33
convert XP outlook express messages on one PC into Outlook

nothing wrong with having a bit of religion at primary school level as long as it is balanced out with some science, which it is.

let the kids decided, dont dictate to them whats right and whats wrong

superstu Posted on 22/03/2011 13:34
.100% of athiests

Yawn. Islam is tosh as well Bernie, don't worry.

north_east_invader Posted on 22/03/2011 13:36
.100% of athiests

"Get it right. It's Christian religion they are obsessed with"

Nope, my feelings about religion cover ALL of them, I do not discriminate.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 22/03/2011 13:36
.100% of athiests

bernie has a point, this seems to be more about peoples personal experiences rather than them saying all religions are false, because the one they always come back to is christianity and its many side projects.

TheSmogMonster Posted on 22/03/2011 13:36
.100% of athiests

"You'll wait a long time for one of them to come on here and start saying vile things about the prophet Mohammed"

What vile thing has been said about Jesus like?

It's all a load of rubbish, it's only your paranoia that makes you think it's all about Christianity.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 22/03/2011 13:40
.100% of athiests

north_east_invader what are your feelings on Hinduism then?

you dont like its values either?

superstu Posted on 22/03/2011 13:50
.100% of athiests

Hinduism's another one I think is a load of rubbish. Karma? Reincarnation? Again a notion of a God/multiple Gods? Utter, utter XXXXXX.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 22/03/2011 13:51
.100% of athiests

is it wrong to use elements of hinduism within theories of science?

Atticus Posted on 22/03/2011 13:52
.100% of athiests

Hindiusm isn't a religion in the same sense as other world faiths.

superstu Posted on 22/03/2011 13:54
.100% of athiests

Pardon me? Have you been on the sauce? I don't know. Or care, Raz. Why don't you tell us? Is it wrong to use elements of Hinduism within theories of science? Is it wrong to ever not use elements of Hinduism in science? Does any of this have anything to do with the rest of the thread? Are you asking a pointless inane question because you've forgotten what point you were trying to make in the first place?

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 22/03/2011 13:57
.100% of athiests

'Hindiusm isn't a religion in the same sense as other world faiths.'

does that mean that you have issues with its values or you do not?

superstu Posted on 22/03/2011 13:58
.100% of athiests

Raz just make up answers to your questions and get yourself to whatever point you're trying to make.

north_east_invader Posted on 22/03/2011 14:01
100% of athiests

Raz, I'll try to make it as plain as possible for you: I do not believe in making any decision or living a life based on superstition. I am certainly against the state doing so.

I believe judgements for the people should only be based on logic, reason and rationality. What sky fairy people prostrate to in the privacy of their own homes is their own business, just keep it out of things that affect the rest of us.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 22/03/2011 14:08
100% of athiests

north_east_invader i will try and make this as simple as possible for you. If science based a scientific theory loosely on the beliefs of a religion do you think that is wrong?

superstu Posted on 22/03/2011 14:10
100% of athiests

What are you on Raz?

north_east_invader Posted on 22/03/2011 14:12
100% of athiests

Raz, I would (as anyone rational would) require the demonstrable evidence to support the theory before basing anything substantive on it.


Link: This may assist you Raz by the way

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 22/03/2011 14:15
100% of athiests

it was a simple question, i did hope i would not need to give you the exact example because anything to do with religion you have not agreed with, but for science to base something on a religion you would need to see the detail first before commenting.

[^]

TheSmogMonster Posted on 22/03/2011 14:17
100% of athiests

Science is based on observations not speculations by religions.

I think Raz is trying to get at a belief that Bang bang theory and the Hindu creation myth have a few common factors, but ignores the ways they vary.

Am I barking up the wrong tree?

north_east_invader Posted on 22/03/2011 14:19
100% of athiests

Raz, I am happy to admit I have NO idea where you are going with this, but that isn't abnormal. I am not off the top of my head aware of any such theory - but am always happy to be educated.

I stand by my statement, I would require actual evidence that is repeatedly demonstrable to support whatever theory. It is one thing to get an idea for a theory from somewhere, it is something entirely different to then be able to prove it.

Atticus Posted on 22/03/2011 14:21
.100% of athiests

It doesn't have values alone, other than freedom of belief and worship.

As with most other areas of life, I support anything until it begins to cause harm or infringe on the rights of others.

SmogOnTheRhine Posted on 22/03/2011 14:24
.100% of athiests

Raz is clearly going for number 73 in the list....



ARGUMENT FROM EXHAUSTION (abridged)
(1) Do you agree with the utterly trivial proposition X?
(2) Atheist: of course.
(3) How about the slightly modified proposition X'?
(4) Atheist: Um, no, not really.
(5) Good. Since we agree, how about Y? Is that true?
(6) Atheist: No! And I didn't agree with X'!
(7) With the truths of these clearly established, surely you agree that Z is true as well?
(8) Atheist: No. So far I have only agreed with X! Where is this going, anyway?
(9) I'm glad we all agree.....
....
(37) So now we have used propositions X, X', Y, Y', Z, Z', P, P', Q and Q' to arrive at the obviously valid point R. Agreed?
(38) Atheist: Like I said, so far I've only agreed with X. Where is this going?
....
(81) So we now conclude from this that propositions L'', L''' and J'' are true. Agreed?
(82) I HAVEN'T AGREED WITH ANYTHING YOU'VE SAID SINCE X! WHERE IS THIS GOING?
....
(177) ...and it follows that proposition HRV, SHQ'' and BTU' are all obviously valid. Agreed?
(178) [Atheist either faints from overwork or leaves in disgust.]
(179) Therefore, God exists.




Link: Proof of Gods existence

Boromart Posted on 22/03/2011 15:01
convert XP outlook express messages on one PC into Outlook

"nothing wrong with having a bit of religion at primary school level as long as it is balanced out with some science, which it is." -- why does Science need "balancing out", there is absolutely no hope for you!

superstu Posted on 22/03/2011 15:02
.100% of athiests

I think Raz is trying to make a point that we'd believe something if a scientist proved it, but not believe the same thing if a religious person had a guess at it and assured us that they believed it?

For example a Hindu could have conceived the theory of evolution based around their religious beliefs. They could look at the changing colour of peppered moths and say "when the brightly coloured peppered moths are killed, they realise their mistake in making themselves so noticable to predators, and when they reincarnate, they come back as a darker colour so as to survive". Whereas a scientist would explain the same change as being due to darker, bark coloured moths being more able to breed than their bright counterparts due to not being killed as quickly.

Boromart Posted on 22/03/2011 15:03
convert XP outlook express messages on one PC into Outlook

"bernie has a point, this seems to be more about peoples personal experiences rather than them saying all religions are false, because the one they always come back to is christianity and its many side projects."

Nope they are all a load old bolax. It's just Christianity is the one that is discussed the most because the majority of theists on here are christian, and the majority of attempts to indoctrinate us through our lives have been by christians.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 22/03/2011 15:06
.100% of athiests

oh ffs multi verses are one example of a scientific theory that has been based around beliefs formed from Hinduism values.

please look up the links between Hinduism and science for more examples.

It was a simple question, if a scientific theory had been formed using religious beliefs would you take issue with that?

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 22/03/2011 15:07
convert XP outlook express messages on one PC into Outlook

'and the majority of attempts to indoctrinate us through our lives have been by christians.'

so it is to do with personal experiences then [^]

Atticus Posted on 22/03/2011 15:08
.100% of athiests

If it was scientific one assumes it would have been proven. Using science.
The basis for the hypothesis would be irrelevant, but yes, if water was literally turned into wine and I saw it happen and the science was explained, I would believe it happened and accept it.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 22/03/2011 15:10
.100% of athiests

Atticus are you stating that the scientific theory of multi verses hase been proven?

Atticus Posted on 22/03/2011 15:12
.100% of athiests

I will go so far as to state that I'm not sure I understand the question, but other than that, no.

Rayman Posted on 22/03/2011 15:13
.100% of athiests

"bernie has a point, this seems to be more about peoples personal experiences rather than them saying all religions are false, because the one they always come back to is christianity and its many side projects."


Mebbes it's because rather than being brought up in a quasi religious country, we've been brought up in a democratic country where we were encouraged to question everything. Like the others I have an equal distaste/scepticism for all the religions, belief systems etc.

gravyboat Posted on 22/03/2011 15:14
convert XP outlook express messages on one PC into Outlook

If everyone on this forum had used the accumulative hours they've spent going around in circles with Raz actually doing what they were supposed to be doing rather than responding to his default contrary opinions and answering his non-stop questions, I think we may have dragged ourselves out of recession a bit quicker.


Boromart Posted on 22/03/2011 15:15
convert XP outlook express messages on one PC into Outlook

no Raz, you removed half of my sentence to suit your preconceived notion. It is partially because we have more experience of Christian attempts to indoctrinate. It is more importantly because the majority of theists on here are in fact most familiar or only familiar with their own brand of fiction. So for both sides it is the most comfortable and knowledgeable area for discussion, FFS. Why can't we have a smiley for banging your head against a brick wall?

superstu Posted on 22/03/2011 15:15
.100% of athiests

Raz, again, what are you on? If you want to talk about links between Hinduism and Multiverse theory then just do it. Don't ask 50 dogXXXXXX questions to amble your way there over 2 hours.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 22/03/2011 15:19
convert XP outlook express messages on one PC into Outlook

Boromart you dont know the details of the other religions so you cant comment enough, you just know they are wrong.

I have tried to show the comparison with hinduism and science at the most basic form on here but people are unable to grasp it.

Not sure in your world you should pidgeon hole all beliefs together.

I dont know how many christians come on this board.

superstu Posted on 22/03/2011 15:19
.100% of athiests

By the by, multiverse theory is certainly not an example of "a scientific theory that has been based around beliefs formed from Hinduism values".

Boromart Posted on 22/03/2011 15:20
.100% of athiests

superstu, it is his way of trying to prove he is somehow more knowledgeable on the subject than us....personally I think he is just more lost [;)]

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 22/03/2011 15:20
.100% of athiests

superstu why not?

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 22/03/2011 15:23
.100% of athiests

i am not more knowledgeable than anyone on all religions, my feeling is that i could not go around slagging off all religions, and putting them all together and classing them the same.

i am not that clever and knowledgeable.

superstu Posted on 22/03/2011 15:28
.100% of athiests

Why not? Because Raz, someone writing in a book a load of guff such as:

"The countless universes, each enveloped in its shell, are compelled by the wheel of time to wander within You, like particles of dust blowing about in the sky."

...doesn't really class as a scientific theory to my mind.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 22/03/2011 15:29
.100% of athiests

thats not what i read on the multi verse and the influence hinduism had on the theory.

so again why not?

you must have a direct reason.

superstu Posted on 22/03/2011 15:31
.100% of athiests

Why not what?

TheSmogMonster Posted on 22/03/2011 15:31
.100% of athiests

"thats not what i read on the multi verse and the influence hinduism had on the theory."

Whats your source?

Atticus Posted on 22/03/2011 15:50
.100% of athiests

Okay, just googled 'multiverse' and had a little read.

Are you joking asking if this is something I believe has been proven? I'm going to say NO I AM NOT STATING THAT THE SCIENTIFIC THEORY OF MULTI VERSES HAS BEEN PROVEN.

SmogOnTheRhine Posted on 22/03/2011 15:52
.100% of athiests

We're up to 178, nearly there....

(177) ...and it follows that proposition HRV, SHQ'' and BTU' are all obviously valid. Agreed?
(178) [Atheist either faints from overwork or leaves in disgust.]
(179) Therefore, God exists.

superstu Posted on 22/03/2011 15:58
.100% of athiests

This is disgusting. I'm off. [;)]