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Bandy Posted on 07/02/2011 16:38
Stevie mac sacked

[V]

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 07/02/2011 16:39
Stevie mac sacked

true colours

MightyDuck Posted on 07/02/2011 16:39
Stevie mac sacked

if only he's signed taylor [:D]

sasboro1 Posted on 07/02/2011 16:40
Stevie mac sacked

will now be off to WBA i reckon

Lee_Miller_Fan_Club Posted on 07/02/2011 16:41
Stevie mac sacked

Good shout Sas.

Bandy Posted on 07/02/2011 16:41
Stevie mac sacked

very good shout sas

ovy1 Posted on 07/02/2011 16:44
Stevie mac sacked

Weckon Woy Hodgeson will get the Job!

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 07/02/2011 16:44
Stevie mac sacked

and soon be in the championship

NedKat Posted on 07/02/2011 16:46
Stevie mac sacked

Shteve had better get his Brummie accent down asap ...

roond un roond de roondabaat ..

sasboro1 Posted on 07/02/2011 16:46
Stevie mac sacked

roy hodgson will have got a good pay off and wont feel in a hurry to go straight into management

funny if they went for strachan

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 07/02/2011 16:47
Stevie mac sacked

he has become a joke

tjf81 Posted on 07/02/2011 16:49
Stevie mac sacked


Shteve had better get his Brummie accent down asap ...

roond un roond de roondabaat ..

[^][:D]

Nero Posted on 07/02/2011 16:50
Stevie mac sacked

Never mind SMAC.

Obviously, the Bundesliga was a step too far for him.

Midosparmo Posted on 07/02/2011 16:50
Stevie mac sacked

Roy Hodgson is 63, so hardly has time to sit around if wants to go back in management.

Perhaps he wont bother.

sitheman Posted on 07/02/2011 16:52
Stevie mac sacked

I think he would have turned them into a success. No doubt this will be used as a stick to beat Stevo Mc with for the rest of his career.

NedKat Posted on 07/02/2011 16:53
Stevie mac sacked

Another stick ..

Bandy Posted on 07/02/2011 16:54
Stevie mac sacked

Did the biz for us[^]

newyddion Posted on 07/02/2011 16:55
Stevie mac sacked

Poor Tuncay [|)]

colinmilk Posted on 07/02/2011 16:55
Stevie mac sacked

got us a lot of success but at times the football was uninspiring.

r00fie Posted on 07/02/2011 16:56
Stevie mac sacked

Ssssscchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhteeeve[:X][^]

Midosparmo Posted on 07/02/2011 16:58
Stevie mac sacked

Did the biz for us. But we were XXXXXXing awful in his last season bar a couple of lucky escapes in the UEFA cup.
He had took his eye of the ball at the Boro by then though and his mind was onto fininding his next job.

Bandy Posted on 07/02/2011 16:59
Stevie mac sacked

"in the UEFA cup"

[:D][^][rle]

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 07/02/2011 17:03
Stevie mac sacked

'I think he would have turned them into a success.'

I didn't at the time, and it's proved the case. They'd had their moment of glory in a tough league with a top manager.




chesterdrawers Posted on 07/02/2011 17:13
Stevie mac sacked

yeshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh[^]he`s shhhhhacked

foggysfplandiet Posted on 07/02/2011 17:34
Stevie mac sacked

"No doubt this will be used as a stick to beat Stevo Mc with "

No, a ssschtick.

I would happily accept his "uninspiring football" today, I'll tell yer. Be careful what you wish for.


Chisel Posted on 07/02/2011 17:38
Stevie mac sacked

he looks paggered


Link: uh

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 07/02/2011 17:38
Stevie mac sacked

He saved me a few bob [^]

sasboro1 Posted on 07/02/2011 17:39
Stevie mac sacked

think smac was lucky to work with our biggest ever wage bill and top strikers. would he do any better than mowbray at the moment? i'm not so sure. willbe interesting where he goes next. back to england to a club not quite as much money as boro had back then or will he try to remain in europe? back to holland perhaps?

_hachinger_jungs Posted on 07/02/2011 17:47
Stevie mac sacked

He was a dead man walking the day Dzeko was sold, just as I predicted on here a few weeks back.

boro74 Posted on 07/02/2011 18:16
Stevie mac sacked

He was extremely unlucky with Wolfsburg this season. Lot of last minute defeats, atrocius refereeing decisions, best players sold etc.
The final straw was on Saturday, when Diego insisted on taking a penalty against the explicit orders of McClaren, in the 80th minute, and missed it. Wolfsburg lost 1-0.

Bandy Posted on 07/02/2011 18:19
Stevie mac sacked

he looks like a yorkshire pudding on that picture

joseph99 Posted on 07/02/2011 18:38
Stevie mac sacked

sas, nail on head.

It seems also that his luck has run out!

Still waiting for him to become a top PL manager - after all these years.

corabora Posted on 07/02/2011 19:05
Stevie mac sacked

Joke Raz? Won the league with Twente E
didn't he?

Chappy112 Posted on 07/02/2011 19:25
Stevie mac sacked

Look where we are now and where we were when McClaren was here and people are still criticising the man.

I'll never understand Boro fans.

bryan_munich Posted on 07/02/2011 19:26
Stevie mac sacked

got us a lot of success but at times the football was uninspiring.
_________________________
Yes but then it is with all the other managers as we're not Barcelona and without Smac we'd still be potless and Eurovirgins.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 07/02/2011 19:27
Stevie mac sacked

'Look where we are now and where we were when McClaren was here'

So you think he'd have the same budget if he'd stayed?

Nailed on relegation with him and a reduced budget.


Chappy112 Posted on 07/02/2011 19:30
Stevie mac sacked

This has absolutely nothing to do with him staying or going. It's to do with Boro fans lack of appreciation for McClaren.

If people expect us to do better than McClaren did for us then they need to change their team because they will never be satisfied.

joseph99 Posted on 07/02/2011 19:34
Stevie mac sacked

It was the Chief Executive of Middlesbrough FC that described his tenure as financially reckless. I think he is more than qualified to comment, don't you think?

Chappy112 Posted on 07/02/2011 19:35
Stevie mac sacked

The same Chief Executive who gets slaughtered on here on a daily basis!?

joseph99 Posted on 07/02/2011 19:36
Stevie mac sacked

It's the fans fault for everything?

bryan_munich Posted on 07/02/2011 20:09
Stevie mac sacked

It was the Chief Executive of Middlesbrough FC that described his tenure as financially reckless
___________________
That must make the last two failures clinicaly insane.

100Rod100 Posted on 07/02/2011 20:24
Stevie mac sacked

"I think he would have turned them into a success. No doubt this will be used as a stick to beat Stevo Mc with for the rest of his career"

dont you mean scchhtick [:D]




**note to self - check the full thread before you post [8)]

arnold_judas_rimmer Posted on 07/02/2011 20:30
Stevie mac sacked

I'm surprised McLaren had free reign with the Clubs money. I thought the CEO or Chairman would have had to sanction large financial commitments.




swindonred Posted on 07/02/2011 20:40
Stevie mac sacked

I don't think that he would have taken us down if he had the same circumstances that Southgate had ie cutting wages etc.

The best manager we have had.

foggysfplandiet Posted on 07/02/2011 20:43
Stevie mac sacked

"It's the fans fault for everything?"

I thought it was Keith Lamb's fault for everything? According to some on here anyway

attonBORO Posted on 07/02/2011 20:46
Stevie mac sacked

agree with Foggys...

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 07/02/2011 20:48
Stevie mac sacked

'If people expect us to do better than McClaren did for us then they need to change their team'

He should have done a lot better with what he had at his disposal. He was criminally inept with that squad of players. Reid did as well with donkeys, Allardyce far better.

To have the quality of Schwarzer, Boateng, Southgate, Downing, Viduka, Hasselbaink, Yakubu etc. at your disposal and finish 14th would have meant a sacking by Christmas at any other club.

The previous year he managed 7th with Zenden and Reizeger added. Big deal.

He was an under achiever with what he spent.


Voltaire Posted on 07/02/2011 20:49
Stevie mac sacked

If subsequent history has ever, ever vindicated a man - it is Steve McClaren.

redwurzel Posted on 07/02/2011 20:53
Stevie mac sacked


"But we were XXXXXXing awful in his last season bar a couple of lucky escapes in the UEFA cup" - Midosparmo

Sorry, but this is just untrue or a complete wind up

Chelsea at home 3-0 (unbeaten up to February)
Man United 4-1 and there were lucky to get 1.
Arsenal 2-1.

There were some low points but quite a number of high points too.

NedKat Posted on 07/02/2011 20:54
Stevie mac sacked

I'm with Corcaigh_the_Cat on this, still don't think he was all he was made out to be, and he's been caught out yet again ...

Subsequent history saw him fail miserably as the England manager, and once again fail miserably at Wolfsburg ...

arnold_judas_rimmer Posted on 07/02/2011 20:59
Stevie mac sacked

"He should have done a lot better with what he had at his disposal. He was criminally inept with that squad of players. Reid did as well with donkeys, Allardyce far better."

He didn't have a massive squad and how many games did we play in the season? Wasn't it Qtrs of League Cup, Semi of FA, Final of UEFA and all the League games.

No clue some people.


Chappy112 Posted on 07/02/2011 21:11
Stevie mac sacked

Corcaigh_the_Cat

Behave yourself

lambethred Posted on 07/02/2011 21:18
Stevie mac sacked

the glass is always half empty with some folk. he was a half decent manager who gave us a great and memorable roller coaster ride. oh for some of that now in these grim and austere times. good luck to the geezer.

Chappy112 Posted on 07/02/2011 21:20
Stevie mac sacked

We played 64 games that season.


sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 07/02/2011 21:28
Stevie mac sacked

There really needs to be a banging head against wall smiley.

The_Duke Posted on 07/02/2011 22:52
Stevie mac sacked

Emmanuel Pogatetz was in the opposing team for Shhhteve McClaren's last game in charge at Wolfsburg, Fact!

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 07/02/2011 22:57
Stevie mac sacked

and they still lost

[:D]

DowningAlbion Posted on 07/02/2011 23:03
Stevie mac sacked

Ned, how has he been caught out, taking over at a club with problems, it just didn't work out this time

He won the Dutch league with Twente less than a year ago - most succesful manager in their history, first English manager to win a major overseas league title since Bobby Robson.

He gambled on a bigger job at Wolfsburg and it didn't work out. He'll dust himself down, learn from his mistakes and emerge with tremendous character [:D]

Most succesful manager in our history [^]

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 07/02/2011 23:09
Stevie mac sacked

'Most succesful manager in our history'

Only as far as the cup goes. It was the League Cup, so that puts him behind the likes of Bob Stokoe and Lawrie McMenemy as a cup manager.

Not up to Jack Charlton's level as a Boro manager, his team missed the Championship by 5 points.

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 07/02/2011 23:27
Stevie mac sacked

Why do so many of you hate the bloke who brought our first taste of sucess to the club ever.
What's wrong with you? [sad]
When Charlton was around I bet there was a bunch of miserable old sods banging on about how he was nowhere near as good as raich carter or Stanley fletcher or whoever had us 3rd before Hitler invaded Europe?

Golden age it was under Mcclaren. If you didn't enjoy it why do you go to football? I really don't understand it.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 07/02/2011 23:32
Stevie mac sacked

Hate him? I don't hate him. I haven't met the bloke.

Raich Carter wasn't as good as McLaren. He was on a par with Southgate and Strachan.

We have had better managers than both Charlton and McLaren. Have a look at our history.

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 07/02/2011 23:43
Stevie mac sacked

I know our history. It's one of abject failure. Apart from a brief period in the early 2000s when we won a cup and had a couple of swashbuckling runs in Europe.

Whether he was our greatest ever manager is pretty irrelevant as far as I see it. The game is completely different now to how it was in the 70s or the 40s or whatever.

It just XXXXXXes me off that so many of our fans, at every opportunity stick the knife in. It's small time. It's a miserable depressing attitude.

And to call his football boring after the last three or four years. [?]

Legend to me and always will be.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 07/02/2011 23:44
Stevie mac sacked

[:D]

sheriff_john_bunnell Posted on 07/02/2011 23:47
Stevie mac sacked

Bit of a cheap comeback isn't it?
Why not just do a [rle] and be done with it?

Chappy112 Posted on 07/02/2011 23:47
Stevie mac sacked

Highest league finish for god knows how long, first trophy, first time in europe, first european final, 2 fa cup semi finals. All that in his first 5 years in management.

But nah you're right he was average.

arnold_judas_rimmer Posted on 07/02/2011 23:50
Stevie mac sacked

"Not up to Jack Charlton's level as a Boro manager, his team missed the Championship by 5 points."

Different game these days son. No-one will ever take a club like Boro that close unless they have unlimited funds.

He got us within two wins of a Champions League place. Which is about as close a comparison you could get to J Charlton's league acheivements.

Not bad considering he "underacheived" in the league.

degsyspesh Posted on 08/02/2011 00:31
Stevie mac sacked

"got us a lot of success but at times the football was uninspiring."

If it was uninspiring back then (and I totally agree that it was), on the same scale how would describe the current offerings???

Hindsight is a marvelous thing.....[:D]

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 08/02/2011 00:35
Stevie mac sacked

Well, people can go on all they want on here about his tenure.

What they can't change is the fact he lead us to a League Cup triumph and the UEFA Cup Final.

For that, he will always have my respect.

grantus Posted on 08/02/2011 01:00
Stevie mac sacked

I'm just thankful he was that inept that we experienced two of the most amazing comebacks (all be it against garbage opposition), that any club would ever see.

In spite of him.

Thanks for the memories and almost bankrupting the club.

Perhaps time to move on eh?

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 08/02/2011 02:40
Stevie mac sacked

He was recent so he was brilliant [^]

By the way, Big Jack did it on the world stage too, with a squad with few options.

expat_smoggie Posted on 08/02/2011 04:51
Stevie mac sacked

Round peg in a square hole as he would say. in truth he got greedy -- just like he did with the England job. Hope he relises now that he'll never be a big time manager-- he'll end up coaching another mediocre team and probably be a success with them

20_Briggsy Posted on 08/02/2011 05:13
Stevie mac sacked

Nice to see thing doesn't change much round these parts. I'd have thought since our sudden fall from grace of late people would have actually appreciated more what mac achieved with us, I guess not. Still as deluded as ever.

What I'd give now for premiership football season on season, eufa cup football and the odd cup win. :-) never mind Doncaster away will do eh?

Ilsan_Boro Posted on 08/02/2011 07:05
Stevie mac sacked

I have mixed feelings about Maclaren. It's fair to point out that he had significant financial backing for the success he achieved with us and to wonder (or even doubt) how well he would have managed us if he'd had to also deal with the consequences of the overspending on relatively older players that his success was as a result of.

But at the same time he did win us our first trophy, oversee two pretty good European campaigns and kept us stable, if uninspiring, league-wise. On the other hand, Bryan Robson had had, relative to the competition, even greater financial backing than Maclaren and got us relegated once - would've been twice but for Tel saving the day. Of Robson v Maclaren, I'd say there was little doubt that Maclaren was the better manager.

Not that I'm saying Maclaren is our best ever manager though, nor even the best I can remember. I just don't think comparisons of different eras and utterly different circumstances are very meaningful. I too am old enough to have pretty good memories of Jack Charlton's days and remember how much we annihilated the rest of the 2nd division by and how close he was to winning the league with us the following season. However, you'd also have to say that those were the days when it was actually possible for quite a large number of teams be in with a shout of coming close to winning the league.

Back on topic, I, like boro74 above, follow German football quite closely having once lived there and I'd agree with him that Maclaren's been a bit unlucky with Wolfsburg. They've had the kind of season where, if luck had been only very slightly different, they could easily have been 10+ points better off. As well as that, he inherited a slightly past its sell by date kind of team, which was always going to require a reasonable amount of time to overhaul. Unfortunately for him in Germany you (a) tend not to often get the amount of time and patience to give such a team overhaul much of a chance to work and (b) particularly working for someone like Dieter Hoeness, don't get much of a say in what players you have to work with. If there's anything I'd criticise him for at Wolfsburg, it'd be not being aware of those 2 risks when working in Germany.

Although, perhaps he was and thought it worth those risks. As I and boro74 said, he wasn't actually THAT far off making things work at Wolfsburg.

Not sure what he'll do now but I'd be surprised if it was West Brom. In fact, I'm not sure he'd come back to England at all just yet.


Abel_Tasman Posted on 08/02/2011 07:10
Stevie mac sacked

On that last sentence not getting time applies to all football where big money is involved. Ask Hughton and Di Mateo.

Ilsan_Boro Posted on 08/02/2011 07:21
Stevie mac sacked

Abel, yes of course it does.

But there are a lot of things that make it a little different in Germany and why it's been so for quite a long time there. You're not a "manager" there like you would be in England and you're often not able to have much of an influence on player ins and outs.

As well as that, the Bundesliga is much more of a managerial merry go round, particularly amongst the established German coaches. Anyone who follows both the Bundesliga and English football closely will knwo what I mean about even less patience being shown there.

joseph99 Posted on 08/02/2011 07:52
Stevie mac sacked

Surely any modern successful manager is measured by the ability to form relationships and rapport with his team of staff, peers and senior staff whilst producing a quality, consistent prodct.

McClaren was detested at senior levels of the club.

He didn't talk to the players and the players didn't like him or respect him

He overspent

Imagine how successful MFC would have been had he been able to get on with people / players.

skiprat Posted on 08/02/2011 09:40
Stevie mac sacked

I find it amusing the posters saying that he bankrupted the club.

Is this the same Boro that went on to spend 12 million pound on ONE player after McClaren was well gone? Really on our arse financially weren't we?

bear66 Posted on 08/02/2011 09:42
Stevie mac sacked

Yes, to the tune of 80m . . . . . or was that 95m

The_263 Posted on 08/02/2011 09:54
Stevie mac sacked

I don't recall any bankruptcy, unless I am wrong, in recent years since McClaren departed. It is a little unfair to suggest that he is fully culpable for our current financial predicament and if fingers are being pointed in this respect you would need a couple of hands I feel. He didn't leave much in the way of solid foundations on the field - his strategy was to overpay for "success" for today rather than develop it for tomorrow. This strategy dovetailed with his own personal ambitions and these were way beyond poor little Middlesbrough. He left plenty of overpaid underperforming ageing superstar players and a squad that required a decent level of surgery - that's when Southgate/Gibson/Lamb screwed up!

Midosparmo Posted on 08/02/2011 10:03
Stevie mac sacked

Nostagalia is a funny thing. We recall the about 5 good games in Smacs last season, yet seem to forget the about 50 bad games.
Think back and remember a bloke slinging his season ticket at Smac and 25000 cheering him.

Bandy Posted on 08/02/2011 10:30
Stevie mac sacked

"25000 cheering him"

Are you certain of that?

Midosparmo Posted on 08/02/2011 10:31
Stevie mac sacked

Cheering the ticket tosser [^]

otto62 Posted on 08/02/2011 12:44
Stevie mac sacked

I don't even have to think of 5 games .... there's just the one match that I think of, and a smile comes to my face, and I lean back and remember the players & the management & Gibson & the crowd going beserk as they held up that trophy ....
aaaaahhhhhhh Schteeeve [smi]

Midosparmo Posted on 08/02/2011 12:47
Stevie mac sacked

"I don't even have to think of 5 games .... there's just the one match that I think of, and a smile comes to my face, and I lean back and remember the players & the management & Gibson & the crowd going beserk as they held up that trophy ....
aaaaahhhhhhh Schteeeve "


Agreed best football day ever [^][smi]

Big_Shot Posted on 08/02/2011 12:52
Stevie mac sacked

5 good games? I could probably name 15 off the top of my head.


Midosparmo Posted on 08/02/2011 12:54
Stevie mac sacked

5 good games in has last season for the Boro.

Big_Shot Posted on 08/02/2011 12:56
Stevie mac sacked

I wouldn't.

Man City 0 Middlesbrough 1 - best performance of the season
Stuttgart 1 Middlesbrough 2
Villa 2 Middlesbrough3
Middlesbrough 4 Bolton 3
Middlesbrough 3 Fulham 2
Sunderland 0 Middlesbrough 3
Birmingham 0 Middlesbrough 3

There's 7 for starters

Midosparmo Posted on 08/02/2011 12:57
Stevie mac sacked

Ok so my 5 is nearer then your 15 [^]

Big_Shot Posted on 08/02/2011 12:59
Stevie mac sacked

Thats not including the 3 wins against Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea, and the 2 comebacks in the UEFA Cup. So there's 12.

Midosparmo Posted on 08/02/2011 13:02
Stevie mac sacked

Ok I concede on the 5. [|)]

But 12 out of 60 odd is not a good ratio.

Big_Shot Posted on 08/02/2011 13:03
Stevie mac sacked

Middlesbrough 1 Roma 0
Middlesbrough 4 Charlton 2
Middlesbrough 3 Tottenham 3

There were plenty of good games and performances in his final season. But there were also plenty of disappointing results and dropped point, and we definitely should have been capable of finishing considerably higher in the table. But it was a great season.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 08/02/2011 13:08
Stevie mac sacked

'I have mixed feelings about Maclaren.'

[^]

Midosparmo Posted on 08/02/2011 13:08
Stevie mac sacked

It was his determination to leave the Boro perhaps that made me dislike him that season.
The sevnth place season I was disapointed in that it was a poor division and given a bit more in the team Champions league was there for the taking, but in the end 7th was ok.
Before then though [^]

myboro Posted on 08/02/2011 13:20
Stevie mac sacked

Islan - I think you need to look at net spwnding of McClaren before saying robson was backed more.

Net spend under McClaren was more than Robson and Southgate put together. Considering Robson was here 2 years longer we start to see where our current demise started.

That said McClaren cannot shoulder the full blame it is actually Lambs job to watch the finances so he is also cullpable.

Always a limited manager who seemed a decent individual coach. No doubt be back soon in england though and the debate can continue.

Midosparmo Posted on 08/02/2011 13:23
Stevie mac sacked

Under Robbo we would have maybe three or four superstars and a lot of journeymen.

But SMac had a team full of proven top flight players so the wage bill must have been through the roof compared to Robbos.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 08/02/2011 13:27
Stevie mac sacked

Spot on.

Hercules Posted on 08/02/2011 13:30
Stevie mac sacked

He achieved what was expected of him given the finances available to him as Boro manager.

He failed miserably with England.

He appears to have done a very good job at Twente and a pretty poor job at Wolfsburg but I haven't paid much attention to him since he left England.

Those willing to bear his children because he worked for the club during our most successful period are over-estimating the influence a manager has.

Also, as a person, he is a massive XXXXXX.

Ilsan_Boro Posted on 08/02/2011 14:11
Stevie mac sacked

myboro, I wouldn't dispute at all that net spending was greater under Maclaren. But it would be greater at many other clubs in those respective time frames too. The key point is "relative to the competition" and that, of the two of them, Robson was better armed financially against the kind of teams we were competing against than Maclaren was. Not that I was ever saying that Maclaren wasn't well backed financially - quite the opposite, as he was very much so.

I'd agree that our current financial plight stems from overstretching ourselves during Maclaren's time. (Although people shouldn't ever forget that without that overstretching we probably would still be trophy-less and wouldn't have had one, let alone two European campaigns.) And I'd also add that I don't think Maclaren was at all astute in the transfer market.

However, I agree with you that you can't really just, or even mostly, blame Maclaren for our finances now. Lamb & Gibson are in charge of MFC's money and it's their job to tighten or loosen the purse strings as they see fit. And they were clearly HAPPY to overspend during Macs reign so as to achieve the success we did.

skiprat Posted on 08/02/2011 14:43
Stevie mac sacked

"But 12 out of 60 odd is not a good ratio."

That is a dreadful way to look at games under any manager, even Man U fans won't have that high a ratio because football isn't really that exciting taking it on a game by game basis and certainly not massively memorable except for the odd game.

Would Chelsea fans remember much about their 1-0 wins over the Mourinho years? Why should we.

Jeremy_Clarkson Posted on 08/02/2011 14:48
Stevie mac sacked

Scccchhhhhttteeevvvveeee shays have a ton [^]

bryan_munich Posted on 08/02/2011 14:58
Stevie mac sacked

He achieved what was expected of him given the finances available to him as Boro manager.
_____________________________
He overachieved given the resources enjoyed by other clubs eg Newcastle United.


Midosparmo Posted on 08/02/2011 15:02
Stevie mac sacked

Its unusual for any team outside the top 4 to win a cup so Smac has to be given credit for that.
The Uefa cup final not as much as the league cup as it is an easier competition (see Fulham) still good though.

captain5 Posted on 08/02/2011 15:12
Stevie mac sacked

He may be off to....


Link: West Brom??

Hercules Posted on 08/02/2011 15:24
Stevie mac sacked

He overachieved given the resources enjoyed by other clubs eg Newcastle United.

Compare the wage table with the actual table and we were higher in the wage table than the actual table more often than not under McClaren.

But like I said, people are over-estimating the influence of a manager.

Mourinho and Ferguson are fantastic managers but Chelsea, Inter and Man Utd would have had enjoyed similar successes without them.

Likewise with poorer managers and their clubs failures.

Ilsan_Boro Posted on 09/02/2011 01:06
Stevie mac sacked

He failed miserably with England?

I never thought he was a particularly good choice as England manager and the circumstances in which he was appointed made it an even less sensible appointment.

But all you can say about his spell as England manager is that we missed out in the one major tournament qualification stage that he was in charge for. And we missed out pretty narrowly. Just one of several bizarre bits of luck - the kind that his predecessor tended to get - going the other way could have seen us in the play-off spot at least.

Bobby Robson also failed to get us to Euro84 in his first tournament qualifiers. Venables never took England through any qualifiers. Graham Taylor didn't make the world cup and Keegan wouldn't have either in 2002 if he'd seen the qualifying campaign out to the end. And we only just scraped through by the narrowest of margins under Hoddle/Keegan for Euro 2000.

As I said, I never thought he was the right person for the England job at the time, but I don't think his period in charge tells us much at all. Failing miserably would suggest being 10 points off qualification and being out of the picture before the last couple of games, which didn't happen. What did happen wasn't that unusual for an England qualifying campaign.

UAUA Posted on 09/02/2011 07:44
Stevie mac sacked

Jack Charlton acheived on the big stage.....?

He won one single match at a world cup with a very good set of players.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 09/02/2011 07:49
Stevie mac sacked

no 'Failing miserably' suggests he was unable to get a so called decent England team to qualify out of a very average group.

Sven did it with similar players.

The fiasco surrounding beckham being dropped did not help.

He was a bad choice for England manager and he went on to prove that.

He did well for Middlesbrough by being able to throw money at the situation, something that no other Middlesbrough manager was able to do, not even Robson to that same level of spending and wages.

The_same_as_before Posted on 09/02/2011 08:44
Stevie mac sacked

With over 40 years of watching MFC, he gave me the best two years.

He bought the best player I have ever seen in Middlesbrough shirt.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 09/02/2011 08:54
Stevie mac sacked

he wasted the most money and now we are paying the price for that

The_same_as_before Posted on 09/02/2011 08:58
Stevie mac sacked

I am not denying that, and not my money he didn't.


If we went bust tommorrow it was still worth it. Starting as an Aldershot or Wimbledon seems great fun to me, better than the weekly dross of the championship and the hope that you don't go down from the Skypremiership.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 09/02/2011 09:20
Stevie mac sacked

'If we went bust tommorrow it was still worth it.'

o...k

Ilsan_Boro Posted on 09/02/2011 11:52
Stevie mac sacked

"no 'Failing miserably' suggests he was unable to get a so called decent England team to qualify out of a very average group.

Sven did it with similar players."

Sven managing to qualify with similar players would indeed support an argument of him being a better England manager. But that wasn't the issue nor does it support a claim of Maclaren failing miserably.

A very average group? Bollox, certainly compared to the ones Sven qualified from anyway. For both the Euro2004 and World Cup 2006 groups, there was only one other team that had any record of regular tournament qualification - Turkey 2004 and Poland 2006. Whereas for Euro 2008 we were up against two teams with decent qualifying records in Croatia and Russia.

Eriksson obviously deserved credit for getting us through in 2002, given the poor start to that campaign under Keegan. But he did get a big slice of luck in the end with the dodgy free kick to grab a point v Greece in the last game. For Euro 2008, England's luck often went the other way. That campaign had not one, but two bizarre goalkeeping howlers of the kind that no manager can really legislate for. If just one of those hadn't happened, we'd have been in the play-offs and if neither had happened we'd have very probably won the group.

Hence my saying earlier that the Euro 2008 qualifiers weren't very different from many other England qualifying campaigns of the previous 20 odd years. Sometimes we just scraped through, that time we were just squeezed out. It wasn't very good, but it wasn't "miserable failure" and anyone who thinks it was is either not speaking the same language or hasn't much experience of supporting England.

Again, I stress I'm not arguing that Maclaren was a good choice for England manager. He wasn't at all. But he wasn't in the job long and he only failed to succeed in a way that the majority of his recent predecessors hadn't succeeded in either.


Razmond_HWDR Posted on 09/02/2011 11:53
Stevie mac sacked

Croatia beat us last game under SMAC...

... months later we thumped Croatia under Fabio.


viv_andersons_nana Posted on 09/02/2011 11:57
Stevie mac sacked

A divot in Croatia away from...

One of the biggest things about McClaren's spell as England boss was his dealings with the press. He didn't know how to handle it(not many do, to be fair).

They demanded he drop Beckham when he got the job, like a lot of fans were at the time, so he promptly dropped him to try and 'freshen it up a bit' only for the press to take a pop at him for doing what they demanded in the first place.

Most England manager's will 'fail' in the eyes of the press because they set an unobtainable standard, or demand an unobtainable standard. We shouldn't lose to anyone, we should be the best team in the world according to them. Anything else just doesn't satisfy them.

In the eyes of the English press only one man has ever succeeded - Alf Ramsey.

The England job is nigh-on impossible to succeed in.

Big_Shot Posted on 09/02/2011 12:03
Stevie mac sacked

I'm not sure what the relevance of the 'divot in Croataia' is?

Over the 2 games against Croatia under McClaren we were very much 2nd best, which McClaren must take a big share of the blame for with his strange team selections in both games.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 09/02/2011 12:09
Stevie mac sacked

The ball bounced-up off a divot and over Robinson's foot. There was absolutely nothing anybody could've done about it yet McClaren was lambasted over it.

A draw in Croatia would've made things very different. International football is such a fine line.

Big_Shot Posted on 09/02/2011 12:12
Stevie mac sacked

But we were already losing when that goal went in though. It not happening wouldn't have made any difference. We certainly didn't have an equaliser in us.

There was an easy miss from Steven Gerrard in Russia at the start of the 2nd half which would have put us 2-0 up. He was free at the back post only a few yards out and put it wide. Shocking miss. That would have made a the difference.


viv_andersons_nana Posted on 09/02/2011 12:14
Stevie mac sacked

Fair point, Big_Shot. Though I remembered that 'divot thing' as being the goal that gave the Croatian's the lead.

Mistake on my part.

Ilsan_Boro Posted on 09/02/2011 12:15
Stevie mac sacked

Raz, so what? Maclaren got slated when we only beat Andorra 3-0 away. Capello's team only beat them 2-0.

And anyway, whether Capello was a better England manager wasn't at issue. I wouldn't dispute that Eriksson and Capello (just) were better choices than Maclaren.

Big_Shot Posted on 09/02/2011 12:16
Stevie mac sacked

No, a looping header from Eduardo put them ahead about 5 minutes eariler. Robinson should have done better with that as well. But England were awful that night. McClaren went with wing backs and 3 centre halves and it went a disasterous selection, so a big share of the blame must go with him.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 09/02/2011 12:20
Stevie mac sacked

so what???

it is a simple point that shows that he wasnt up to the job.

only months afterwards did England hammer Croatia.

He then moved to an easy league and did ok.

He belongs at a club like West Brom... mind again i think without lots of money he will be shown up.

Ilsan_Boro Posted on 09/02/2011 12:27
Stevie mac sacked

So whether or not a manager is up to the job depends on the result against one particular team?

Under Strachan, we thumped Doncaster away 4-1. "Months later", under Mogga we lost the same fixture 2-1. Now that proves Mogga is not up to the job. Yeah, right[rle]

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 09/02/2011 12:31
Stevie mac sacked

no i used one example.

another i used was his handling of beckham. We dont need you, we might need you, we need you etc.

The fact that he had never had real experience managing big name players. Coaching maybe, but not as a manager.

Dealing with the worlds media, comes across well to england fans.

general footballing experience.

Compare him to Sven for footballing experience, and then compare him to Fabio.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 09/02/2011 12:33
Stevie mac sacked

Raz - Can you name one England manager who has dealt with the English media well?

As for the 'easy league' comment, well he was with Twente, not Ajax, PSV or Feyenoord so his achievement in winning the Eredivisie is a very good one.

Ilsan_Boro Posted on 09/02/2011 12:38
Stevie mac sacked

Comparing him to Eriksson or Capello, I'd agree. And as I've said several times, I don't think he was a good choice at all for England manager.

I'd agree with you mate, that he was crap with the media. (Although, most England managers have struggled there as the media itself doesn't help.) But he still only just missed out on qualifying in his one and only campaign. That's not 'miserable failure' unless you have a very limited vocabulary.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 09/02/2011 12:40
Stevie mac sacked

Sven, Fabio, Bobby Robson, Venables... it comes with experience i guess.

i dont know what state PSV or Feyenoord were in.

I know Ajax where no longer the great team they used to be.

He took over a Twente team doing well with international players in it.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 09/02/2011 12:47
Stevie mac sacked

Sven hated the English press and they made him look stupid, splashing his private life all over the show and the fact he was the first foreigner to coach England meant he was never going to be well-received by the press-pack.

Fabio is loathed by journalists and openly hammered, despite being one of the greatest football coaches of all-time.

Bobby Robson was on the receiving end, too, and the press wanted him sacked before Italia '90 came along... we were pretty awful in that tournament too don't forget, and scraped past Belgium and Cameroon. One good performance against West Germany distorts his spell as England boss really. Perhaps the difference with Bobby was that he knew the press were after him yet he remained as charming and approachable as ever.

Venables, yeah you can have that one. I don't really remember too much flak dished out to him, but the press did loathe his 3-5-2 formation and the fact he wouldn't drop Shearer.

As for McClaren, well winning the Dutch title with a club other than Ajax, Feyenoord or PSV is quite an achievement.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 09/02/2011 12:54
Stevie mac sacked

I was talking about SMACs handling of affairs (thats England footballing affairs) and part of that was the media.

Svens handling of the media was always professional and at a distance, Fabio even more so using Stuart Pearce at times.

I was not talking aboyt how the media handled or treated them, as they cannot do much about that.

ffs.

Why? Ajax were a cash strapped team going through a transitional period then. You dismiss how good Twente were when SMAC took over compared to these other teams.

Ilsan_Boro Posted on 09/02/2011 12:59
Stevie mac sacked

All good points by VAN.

I'd just add that it's worth remembering Bobby Robson's first campaign for England was also a failure to qualify for the Euros.

Venables does indeed come across as one of the better England managers, I'd agree. But he was never really tested. He never had to deal with a qualifying campaign and if you were really harsh you could say he ballsed up the best chance of a major title that England are likely to have for a long time - home advantage and probably the weakest German side we'd played for years.

Chappy112 Posted on 09/02/2011 13:00
Stevie mac sacked

Twente had finished 4th 4th 9th and 6th in the previous 4 years before McClaren. So 2nd and 1st when they have only been runner up in their history once is pretty good going.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 09/02/2011 13:14
Stevie mac sacked

Raz - My point is that it doesn't really matter how an England manager deals with the press because they will always crucify him. They may start off being open and approachable but by the end of it they've changed tact completely.

One constant through all of these managers, though, is the fact that England's players just aren't good enough to win tournaments. That is something the press acknowledge in the immediate aftermath of a World Cup or European Championship exit, but quickly forgotten about once the next qualifying process begins.

As for Twente, well they're a small club who had never won the Eredivisie. It's akin to Hearts winning the Scottish Premier League. Ajax, Feyenoord and PSV have all the power in Holland and McClaren managed to stem the tide. Yes, those clubs were going through 'transitional' periods and weren't/aren't the clubs they once were but they still have far more clout than Twente.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 09/02/2011 13:21
Stevie mac sacked

my point was simple, it was how he handled the world media, not how the world media handled him.

England players have been good enough to win european cups throughout the years, yet not good enough to win a cup competiton of a handful of games. With SMAC in charge we will never know.

I guess when we win things in europe it is with a better manager than him in charge.

If you rate the SPL alongside the dutch league then maybe you also dont rate the league so highly either.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 09/02/2011 13:27
Stevie mac sacked

My point is also simple. It doesn't matter how McClaren attempted to deal with the press because they would have hammered him anyway. They didn't want him in the job and he was fighting a losing battle from the start. He knew it, we all knew it. Isn't there a clip of him almost breaking down in tears after a game because of how he'd been treated?

I never said I rate the SPL alongside the Eredivisie. I merely said that Twente winning the Dutch league is similar to Hearts winning the Scottish league. That is because both clubs aren't part of the footballing 'elite' in their respective championships.

It's like when Boavista won the Portuguese title ahead of Porto, Benfica and Sporting.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 09/02/2011 13:36
Stevie mac sacked

So you think ALL England managers manage the press badly simply because of how the press manage them?

I think Fabio does a good job with how he presents England and himself with the worlds press you on the other hand seem to differ.

no you are saying that they are not great leagues because each season only 2 or 3 teams are good enough to win the league the rest arent that great, so a team from the rest of the group to go on and win it must be a great achievement, and nothing to do with those other teams under achieving due to lack of funds amongst other things.

You was the great manager of Boavista?

Hercules Posted on 09/02/2011 13:58
Stevie mac sacked

England had the best group of players in that qualifying group.

Coming third in a group of 6/7 is akin to Barcelona finishing 6th or 7th out of 20 in La Liga.

Either is miserable failure.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 09/02/2011 13:59
Stevie mac sacked

Raz, what are you on about? I'm saying it doesn't matter how an England manager deals with the press. He can be open, honest and friendly and still be lambasted. He can be a bit more ruthless and be received and written about in the same way as he would if he were more friendly. McClaren and Capello are prime examples of this. The press, and media as a whole, play a big part in how the England manager is perceived by the public. The manager himself has very little control over this.

Capello's dealings with the press are fine, but he is constantly criticised over his English skills and for repeating himself.

Jaime Pacheco managed Boavista and then went to Spain. Perhaps Mallorca noted how good an achievement it was to win the Portuguese league with a team outside the 'big three'?

You can argue all you want about the state of the other teams in Holland, Scotland, Portugal, Belgium etc, Raz, it still doesn't make McClaren lifting the Dutch title, for the first time in the history of FC Twente, any less of an achievement.

Do you think Twente had a bigger budget than Ajax, Feyenoord and PSV at the time? Do you think Twente had more international footballers in their ranks than those three clubs? Do you think Twente had a bigger squad than their counterparts? If you do, then, with respect, I think you perhaps need to reconsider your viewpoint.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 09/02/2011 14:19
Stevie mac sacked

ffs lets put it another way, if he had won the SPL with Hearts that would be a great acheivement, but it would not make him a great manager, as that league isnt the best in the world.

Same as if he won League 1 with wycombe.

Well done to what he did in his time, but it wasnt a great achievement in world football terms.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 09/02/2011 14:24
Stevie mac sacked

Where did I say he was a 'great' manager?

How is winning the SPL with Hearts any more of an achievement than winning the Eredivisie with FC Twente?

In 'world football terms' very few managers ever achieve 'greatness', or indeed lead their team to what many would consider to be a 'great achievement'.