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Lisbonlegend Posted on 30/01/2011 10:03
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The long term signings of our young players (Smallwood, Park, Steele, Hines, etc.) and the sale of Wheater and O'Neill suggests a long term strategy is being put in place by Gibson and Mowbray. It could turn out to be a risky strategy given our current precarious position, especially as we only have until tomorrow to get players in although it appears our finances dictated it be a necessity. Haas and the Hibs fella are unknowns but would at least increase squad depth, especially important at centre back where we are painfully short. Let's hope Hines stays injury free and shows some real potential cos if he doesn't were stuffed. Fingers crossed.

So in brief, our crap start, high wages mean we strip the squad again and look to our young uns to carry the club forward in the future. In the meantime trying to plug some holes with stop gap players. I've been impressed with the way we've played under Mowbray but we've failed to kill games off we should have won. With no new strikers in it's looking like more of the same this season. Unless some rabbits are pulled out in the next day.

Palace and Scunthorpe are must wins. Be Lucky. I really hope we are.

Sea_Harrier Posted on 30/01/2011 10:07
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Lisbon.[^]

PENECTOMY Posted on 30/01/2011 10:08
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not bothered

Billy69_uk Posted on 30/01/2011 10:13
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I have come to the conclusion that although I miss top flight football, I dont miss all the shyte that goes with playing the Man utds and Chelseas every week.

Watching Nani throwing himself to the ground every time a Southampton player went anywhere near him and the ref buy it every single time made me sick.

If that is the way top flight football has to be played to make a go of it in the prem, then they are welcome to it. I hope the Wigans, Boltons, et al are all happy mortgaging the future of their very existence on the hope that they too will make it big in the top flight.

Northwestboro Posted on 30/01/2011 10:14
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As long as we stay in this division, then Mowbray has done a good job already in my book.

If the fans turned out and helped the club by getting 19-20k at home, we could have sustained one of the big earners. However fans aren't gonna rush out to watch us just survive in the championship, but that us where we are at the minute.

I will renew next season and support my team as and when I can get through to Boro.

Why ? Because despite us being a real poor team

It's my club my team !! my town who I am
Proud to be from

UTB ! [^]

U

Lisbonlegend Posted on 30/01/2011 10:18
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I do miss top flight football, the atmosphere and pitting our wits against the best but I understand your sentiments and the greed and cheating that has damaged the game. Were no longer a Premiership team playing in the Championship, were now a Championship team playing in the Championship and it's a long road back. I still believe Mowbray is the man to lead us back to that goal but we need to get through this season in one piece first.

Billy69_uk Posted on 30/01/2011 10:21
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starting a game with 6 home grown players has to count for something in my book.

I would rather see that, than a team half full of overpaid overseas players who will whack in a transfer request the minute things get sticky during another prem league struggle

Lisbonlegend Posted on 30/01/2011 10:21
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Northwestboro, I agree and if he keeps us financially afloat, keeps us up, secures our young talent to provide the springboard for next season whilst playing good football then you can't ask for much more. We were left in a mess with a ridiculously unbalanced squad bereft of any confidence or goals.

HolgateCorner Posted on 30/01/2011 10:24
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I'm much more optimistic than I was a few months back.

We have some superb young players being given the chance to establish themselves in the team at present, they could form the backbone of our side for years to come.They are better than the type of players we can now afford to bring in.

We could be looking back on this period in afew years time as the start of a bright new era.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 30/01/2011 10:24
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Billy, I sort of agree but as long as were winning. Juninho wasn't from Teesside but he lifted the whole area, we need winners, not just local lads. But if it's a choice of the same ability then I'd prefer local over Scottish. Although I'd probably prefer 6 Brazilians over 6 Stockton lads.

Sitrep Posted on 30/01/2011 10:27
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what Northwestboro said,[^]

Lisbonlegend Posted on 30/01/2011 10:27
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HC, the greatest change Mogga made was to bring back the likes of Bennett, Bates, McMahon, Etc. Although I'm still astounded how he turned Bailey from the worst midfielder I'd ever see in in Boro colours into one of our best players.[?]

Billy69_uk Posted on 30/01/2011 10:31
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couldnt agree more Lisbon, but I honestly think the days of those big "trophy" signings are long gone to most, apart form those clubs who are being bankrolled by sugar daddies (or sugar sheiks) or clubs who are willing to risk it all for the sake of another season in the prem.

I think that like it or not the only sustainable plan for a "normal" club is to look at WBA or Blackpool who wont risk everything, and just get progressively better etc

oldsmoggie Posted on 30/01/2011 10:35
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As i've said before I'll hold judgement on Blackpool as I fear the Oyston family will use the Premier money to the advantage of the Oystons rather than Blackpool F.C.

Humpty Posted on 30/01/2011 10:35
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Of course it would be nice to see 11 local boys lifting us into the top six of the prem but it's not going to happen. I couldn't care less where our players are from as long as we're winning.

I don't think Hines is the be all and end all. We've still got big Mick to come back yet, although it will take him half a dozen games to get back in the swing of things. Rhys Williams is another who could fill that hole at the back and that Haas has just come in too.

bryan_munich Posted on 30/01/2011 10:39
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It would be folly to increase the wage bill now when we don't know what div will be in next season.

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 30/01/2011 10:46
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Football is damaged at the moment, so much so that many fans have turned their back on it.

Ironically though I'm almost pleased the club has turned a full circle, back to the days of relying on home grown talent and developing modest signings in the hope of making a profit.

We've seen the other side of it - man city are the worst possible example of it - and I'm not sure I like it.

Humpty Posted on 30/01/2011 10:48
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i'd also say that anyone who doesn't miss the prem is a liar.

ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 30/01/2011 10:51
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I work with a Pompey fan and although he love his club, he's totally disillusioned with football. He thinks too many of their players don't give a stuff and because of that, he said he could so easily just turn his back on football.

Sitrep Posted on 30/01/2011 10:51
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I donít miss the Prem, I do miss watching decent football.

Humpty Posted on 30/01/2011 10:58
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Do you not think the two are inextricably linked?

[:D]

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 30/01/2011 11:06
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I don't miss the Premier League.

Setting up for a draw against Blackburn and Wigan is something I grew to hate. Then there's the diving, the cheating, the cynical behaviour of a lot of the players in general, the constant focus on the 'Sky Four', the general sense of bias in the media/press, the money, the abuse of referees, the lack of atmosphere at most grounds, the feeling that you won't win a game before said game has even kicked-off, the mercenaries, the sycophancy, the failure to treat all clubs equally, the greed, the fact so many games are moved from a Saturday at 3pm and put on telly to satisfy the loyal supporters in places like Thailand and Indonesia, the lack of sportsmanship, the lack of excitement, the predictability of it all, the feeling that even though your team is there you don't really count for anything.

If we go up, then great. At least this time we know we have a man in charge who will try and get us playing football, a manager who isn't afraid to go and try to win the game.

If we don't go up, well, it's no big deal. There's always next season, or the season after.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 30/01/2011 11:07
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Humpty, I've not been impressed with big Mick if I'm honest and I can't see him playing much at all this season.

Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants Posted on 30/01/2011 11:17
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I wrote this season off when Strachan was appointed last season.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 30/01/2011 11:19
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Viv, I know what your saying but wouldn't it be amazing if little old Boro were there mixing it up with the 'big boys' in the top flight but doing it with credibility?

Humpty Posted on 30/01/2011 11:23
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tbh neither have i Lisbon. He didn't start the season well, but i saw enough in his first six months here to suggest there's a very good centre half there. I don't expect him to play a major role in the rest of the season mind.

Viv, you've confused me. Do you want to go up or not because your post contradicts itself [?]

sasboro1 Posted on 30/01/2011 11:24
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with viv_andersons_nana's attitude, makes you wonder why we bother if people arnt arsed about promotion.

must admit I thought after relegation we would be better to watch with more goals. but strachan messed that up. the premier league is the place to be. rather watch the likes of tevez than some crap championship striker. plus you get more away fans which makes a big difference

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 30/01/2011 11:24
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If Mogga takes us up and stays true to his philosophy, which i'm sure he would, then i'd be happy. It'd be a pleasure to see us go out and try and win games in the Premier League.

If we went up with the mentality of just not getting beat, like most of the teams outside the select few, then it's a pointless exercise.

Let's have a go at it is my feeling.


*edit - How does my post contradict itself?

billdoor Posted on 30/01/2011 11:25
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I think McManus may well be sold on the cheap in the summer tbh, and I agree wih Lisbon that he's not been up to much this season anyway.

Also agree that, atm, we need to do something about the end product, be it a change of striker or an attacking player to make us more potent, our problem for the last couple of months has been failure to kill games off that we should be winning comfortably.

sasboro1 Posted on 30/01/2011 11:27
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the local lads wont be good enough to get us promoted. maybe mid table. we still need to buy half a team atleast

Humpty Posted on 30/01/2011 11:32
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Viv:

"I don't miss the Premier League."

"If we go up great"

Personally, I'm in it for the glory of my home team. I want to see us competing at the highest level, i don't see the point otherwise. I always thought that was the purpose of sport, i'm just old fashioned i suppose.

zzzzz Posted on 30/01/2011 11:33
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What's that sas? "You'll win nowt with kids"?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 30/01/2011 11:39
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The game is at it's most enjoyable when you are winning. I'd sooner be in Stokes shoes than ours. The tricky bit is getting a winning team without throwing money at it, that's what Mowbray has to try and do.

billdoor Posted on 30/01/2011 11:40
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I understand what Viv is saying, the PL has a lot of negatives around it. But at the same time, seeing your team play top-flight football is a natural thing and is why we aim to get out of this division.

Sitrep Posted on 30/01/2011 11:42
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"Do you not think the two are inextricably linked?"

Only a person whoís football evolves round the Sky/Premiership would say that, Iím off in a minute to watch a under 9s game and yes there will be some decent football played, for their age group.

Is there no decent games played in the championship? Or is it only the Prem you can watch decent football. Once Mowbray gets the team he wants, we will be playing decent football, and I donít care if itís in the championship. Iím oldschool, I donít worship in the church of Sky

FrozenHorse Posted on 30/01/2011 11:45
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Sports fans are, by nature, competative so of course we want to play at the highest level possible and that is the Premiership.


That said, there is alot to despise about the Premiership, not least the grotesque amounts of money that pour through it.

I wouldn't say I'm enjoying our current plight, but suddenly the club feels far more like the one I fell in love with (23 years ago today in fact!). I never liked "big spending Boro" quite so much as the battling underdogs we were under Rioch.

zzzzz Posted on 30/01/2011 11:46
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Sitrep [^]

For periods in the second half against Preston we played Prem standard attacking football. Some of the flowing moves were were class.

As is normally the case though at this level, the finishers make the difference.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 30/01/2011 11:50
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Sitrep, the best players capable of the most amazing things are generally paid the most money and end up in the Premiership. This means that you can watch things happen that you couldn't possibly see in an under 9 game which is why people pay money to watch it.

However, these top players can also nullify one another and produce dross. That is the beauty of football, whether you are in a kids league or a top international, it's all about the sum of the parts, from keepers to strikers to referees to supporters. The whole thing is responsible for the entertainment, get yourself down to watch MSS on Sunday afternoons.[;)]

Humpty Posted on 30/01/2011 11:53
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What a childish reaction sitrep.

Competing at the highest level is the purpose of football. Do you really think Gibson is happy watching us play nice tippy tappy football in the championship without getting anywhere? I believe "Sporting Glory" is the term he coined...but what would he know. Try throwing the "sky sports generation" comment at him.

oldsmoggie Posted on 30/01/2011 11:54
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Problem is that if we ever did get promoted the idiots on here although at the moment are saying we went about it the wrong way ans we should have been prudent like Stoke, Blackpool or WBA would be the first ones screaming for us to be ambitious and pay ridiculous fees and wages to get foriegn mercenaries.

grantus Posted on 30/01/2011 11:54
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Perhaps we are cashing in whilst we can on some, I have a feeling O'Neil might have gone for good money considering West Ham's plight and desperation.

Perhaps we are looking at the rest of the season to blood some players and see if they are capable for the fight.

In many ways prudence in the market is a wise move, it gives us that chance to throw in some of the young players and really evaluate what we need to move forward.

Come the summer, there will obviously be some signings.

Maybe we've learned from last year that a lot of new blood in January is not the ideal way to rebuild a side.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 30/01/2011 11:57
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FrozenHorse, I think I feel the same way, there's something great about having Mogga in charge. Were playing good football, if only the results we deserve will follow. I think that's my big concern, that were not winning the games we should be when were playing well. It erodes confidence and if you then sell you're best players it could all collapse. I think the way we are outplaying our opponents though is very positive and you hope the results will come eventually.

Benny_Blanco Posted on 30/01/2011 11:58
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As sas has already stated...

The local lads are simply not good enough.

If we have any aspirations of getting promoted, then will not do it with 5hite like McMahon, Bates etc. in the team, they are not good enough.

FrozenHorse Posted on 30/01/2011 12:00
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and i think having a strong core of local players in the team helps too.

Sure, I didn't complain when we won the cup with TLF, Mendi, Zenden, Skippy, George & Doriva in the team, but sucess with local players is doubley sweet.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 30/01/2011 12:00
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Oldsmoggie, that's a very good point. Matching prudence with ambition to create success is the magic formula. Our ambition but lack of value for money in difficult times is what has led to our fall from grace. The positive thing to come out of it is that we now have that experience and can learn from it.

Humpty Posted on 30/01/2011 12:01
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They're not good enough on their own Benny, i don't think anyone would disagree with that.

Humpty Posted on 30/01/2011 12:03
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good point Lisbon. I'd also say that we're putting our house in order at just about the right time too.

Benny_Blanco Posted on 30/01/2011 12:03
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They are not good enough full stop.

McMahon - pub player.

Bates - not much better.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 30/01/2011 12:06
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Wed love to have 11 local superstars that take us to glory but it's not going to happen. The purpose of the academy is to supplement the team, save money and generate income not to create a whole team. You get a small crop of young players each year who develop at different rates, it's asking the impossible to have so many that you create a fantastic team. Equally as important to the club as the academy is our scouting system which has been our Achilles heel for many years. That is the key area Mogga needs to focus on, we can't afford anymore expensive mistakes.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 30/01/2011 12:09
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McMahon and Bates are solid Championship players, not world class but not useless either. Calling them sh!t is a bit silly.

Benny_Blanco Posted on 30/01/2011 12:11
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Bottom end championship players...

FrozenHorse Posted on 30/01/2011 12:12
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"Wed love to have 11 local superstars that take us to glory but it's not going to happen"

Agreed; i'd hope the academy can provide a core off 5 or 6 first team players.

"the purpose of the academy is to supplement the team, save money and generate income not to create a whole team."

It generates a lot of pride too; I'm still proud to see our graduate thrive at other clubs. I'd rather they were still at Boro of course...

Humpty Posted on 30/01/2011 12:14
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horsey [^]

Lisbonlegend Posted on 30/01/2011 12:17
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Benny, well agree to disagree.

It does generate pride but also some bitterness at times aswell unfortunately. The academy also helps local youngsters develop but can also ruin kids dreams. The Academy should continue to play a big part in our future and ensure we don't keep falling down the leagues. Let's hope we produce more players like Johnson and Downing on longer term contracts and ensure we secure the value for them that we lost with Wheater.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 30/01/2011 12:41
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My original post was just giving the reasons as to why I don't miss the Premier League.

"If we go up, then great"

That's simply because we have a manager who plays football and tries to win games, rather than just lying down and trying not to get beat. If Mogga takes us up then at least we'd see some football. I can't see us going to somewhere like Wigan, say, and settling for a point before a ball has even been kicked.

That's why I said 'great' if we do go up, because we have a manager in place who will approach games in the Premier League differently.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 30/01/2011 13:11
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The only problem is that Wigan are currently light years ahead of us.[B)]

FrozenHorse Posted on 30/01/2011 13:27
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"Wigan are currently light years ahead of us"

or possibly a year behind us?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 30/01/2011 13:32
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Maybe, maybe not.[8)]

redwurzel Posted on 30/01/2011 13:48
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I think a lot of fans have become downbeat, because of the lack of ambition shown by the club and some poor decisions when they have spent in the last 18 months. There has been a tremendous amount of selling.

We must get out of this - our natural position is at least near the top of the Championship based on our infrastructure and crowd potential. I want players who are good and I don't care where they come from. The academy is a very useful source, but they must be good enough.

Wigan have survived in the Premiership on mainly foreign players and without any academy players.

I think we as fans need to put more pressure on the club to raise its ambitions - we will come more if you invest.

At the minute it feels like 1984 when anything that could be sold was sold - it ended in tears. We sold Darren Wood for cash and bought a very old Tony McAndrew, sold Mick Kennedy for cash and bought an inferior Mick Buckley on a free. It was the wrong strategy. Crowds dropped 40% and we ended off worse off!

Lisbonlegend Posted on 30/01/2011 13:53
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"I think we as fans need to put more pressure on the club to raise its ambitions - we will come more if you invest."

The club did invest though, don't you remember Alves, Mido, Emnes and Digard? Nearly £30m worth of 'talent' there that didn't get the fans flooding in. It's not the investment, it's the value for money that we need. We can#t afford to fritter away money on marquee signings that don't deliver.


joebonano Posted on 30/01/2011 14:10
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The bottom line though wurzel is that we have far too many players on big money by this leagues standards who are not value for money.Until we weed them out and move them on there is a massive problem .More is going out in wages than is coming in.
Boyd on his reputed 25k a week is a case in point.He's not doing it on the pitch and we cant move him on because nobody else will pay him that ridiculous salary.

HolgateCorner Posted on 30/01/2011 14:22
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I think its too easy to write off young players as not good enough and then import some foreigner in their mid twenties who has been allowed to fully develop their playing abilities at the critical time without the critical scrutiny of the fmttm experts watching their every move.

I think over the years we've failed to fully develop the talent of some great young players because we didn't have the time or patience to let them come through properly.

People forget it took years and years for the likes of Downing and Johnson to come through and they would never have come through at many other clubs.Look how hard it was to stick with them at times and yet they are England internationals.

I'm not talking about brining players like juninho or ravanelli here I'm talking about the Tarmo Kinks, the Digards, the Okons, the avaerage signings who restrict the places for our academy players.

Some of our fans need a better attitude towards the academy.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 30/01/2011 14:40
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HC, some good points made. That is the key, these young players are DEVELOPING which is the main reason why you will never win anything with a team of kids. You need to allow them to make mistakes with the comfort blanket of more experienced professionals behind them. I think Adam Johnson had probably shown us in the half a season he really played for us that he was actually far too good for the Championship. It would have been a travesty for the lad to be stuck in our team as it is now.

I agree, some fans are a bit dimwitted when it comes to criticising our young players. players don't normally hit their peak until between 26-28 years old and so that is why relying too much on our academy is probably a flawed plan. It will also be difficult to fully develop our really good young players playing in the Championship.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 30/01/2011 17:56
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Spot on Joe, looks like Boyd maybe staying now after all now Rangers signed David Healy.

Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants Posted on 30/01/2011 19:05
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I'd rather watch our local lads than the imports who are no better and are on higher wages (probably)

Lisbonlegend Posted on 30/01/2011 19:06
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Even if the imports were Brazilian?

billdoor Posted on 30/01/2011 19:26
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The thing about a lot of the people, especially the older fans that have stopped going, is that they haven't become disillusioned just since we went down, they've been uncomfortable with the modern game for a few years. Not sure how you remedy that tbh, but local players will do no harm.

I'd also mention that whereas Sas says we won't get anywhere with young lads, bear in mind that only two youngsters are regulars - Steele and Bennett. Others are local but not youngsters.

As people have said above, bringing players through to compliment the team is a good way forward and hopefully we'll be able to keep the better ones this time.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 30/01/2011 19:28
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Good post Billdoor, McMahon and Bates are no longer youngsters but they have a good rapport with the other local lads which can only be a good thing.[^]

Lisbonlegend Posted on 31/01/2011 09:24
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Only 12 and a half hours left to show some intent for the season, it'll be interesting to see what, if anything, Mogga can do. Very odd signing another player from Jockland, especially one no one has heard of.

MarlonD Posted on 31/01/2011 10:12
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I declared yesterday funnily enough, that I would be renewing next season no matter what.

Now I'm not saying i wasn't going to, but Mowbray has put the pride back into the team and I for one am 100% behind him, which tbh I can't say I've been since the early Bryan Robson days.

Its lifted my spirits to see the club tying down the young talent over the last week or so and persuading the likes of Taylor to stay. I know we sold Wheater but thyat was always inevitable and at least Mowbray didn't fill us with sh1t and was totally honest about the situation.

I'm realistic as to what level the club are now currently at and tbh, yes I would like to see us back in the PL, I'm comfortable with it.

On a personal level, i enjoy my away days out and since the arrival of Mowbray the atmosphere of the away following has been fantastic and you can tell the fans are on the whole united behind Mowbray and understand the financial prepicament that Mowbray and the club are in at present.


Bandy Posted on 31/01/2011 10:16
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Only a month agao Lisbon you were telling me we would stay up easy. Now it looks like you are having doubts. it all depends on if we score enough goals and i dont see any goalscorers coming in which is a major concern

Lisbonlegend Posted on 31/01/2011 10:17
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I agree with all of that Marlon, I felt at the time that Mowbray was the only person that could manage us out of this mess and my feelings are still the same. It's frustrating though that we haven't got the points which our football has deserved over the last 10 games though. As long as we avoid relegation though then we will have appointed the right person. Do you think it's just the oldies that feel this way, do you reckon the young lads get the same warm feeling?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 31/01/2011 10:20
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Bandy, the signs have been very good in terms of football played but the more of your better players you sell then obviously the situation completely changes. We should have won our last 10 games, we are better than the bottom 3 teams but we need to be more clinical. I will have a better feeling at 11pm tonight as to whether I think we will stay up or not.

Capybara Posted on 31/01/2011 10:23
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Spot on Marlon.

Bandy Posted on 31/01/2011 10:26
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Lisbon - tonight will tell us nowt. Just one or two more players that will plug gaps and thats about it. We are where we are and we will be down there til the end. it's enjoyable tho and the football is much better which is what i expected under Mowbray. I am still amazed at how many wins we have got under mogga with the utter schite he has had to manouvere

MarlonD Posted on 31/01/2011 10:27
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I'll probably get shot down for the following but the fact that as a team we are actually getting into the position to throw away points is a massive step forward from not even having a sniff of the points under Strachan.

You can visibly see the frustration from mowbray when we throw away leads late on and he isn't coming out afterwards and filling the fans with rhetoric bullsh1t.

We're on the up imo and I fully expect us to survive realtively easily this season and be a Watford/Coventry type of team next season i.e. with a half decent chance of squeezing into the play offs.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 31/01/2011 10:27
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It will tell us which strikers we have on our books, whether it will be Boyd, Lita, Emnes or Lex Immers. This will be key to our season. I don't think the players are generally that rubbish, just that the squad is completely unbalanced. Mowbray sorted it out by removing wingers and putting in attacking fullbacks, bizarrely, exactly what Strachan based a lot of his career on.

Razmond_HWDR Posted on 31/01/2011 10:28
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tying these players down is encouraging by some people seem to forget that we have not long sold Wheater, Johnson, Downing and the rest.

The worry is that we keeps players until they prove to be decent and then sell them for a tidy profit.

Humpty Posted on 31/01/2011 10:28
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I won't be renewing next season [:O]

Lisbonlegend Posted on 31/01/2011 10:29
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Why not, are you emigrating?

Humpty Posted on 31/01/2011 10:42
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where did you hear that [:O]

Lisbonlegend Posted on 31/01/2011 10:48
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Dunno, just made it up.[8)]

Bandy Posted on 31/01/2011 10:50
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I'm renewing. Pass me the form

Lisbonlegend Posted on 31/01/2011 10:51
Writing This Season Off...

Are you looking forward to next seasons renewal letter Bandy.[8)]

Bandy Posted on 31/01/2011 10:54
Writing This Season Off...

I dont even read them. I just fill it in where i have to.

Humpty Posted on 31/01/2011 10:58
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Good guess, maybe [8)]

Lisbonlegend Posted on 31/01/2011 11:02
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Where to? Oz?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 31/01/2011 11:03
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Marlon, when you end up leaving at half time during a Boro match like at QPR you know there is something wrong. Mowbray seems to have made us tough to beat, even if we can't quite kill teams off yet. It's good to watch at least.

Bandy Posted on 31/01/2011 11:05
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"It's good to watch at least"

bearable. It's not good watching us pass when we should shoot and shoot when we should pass or miss sitters or hit the first man with our corners or crosses

Humpty Posted on 31/01/2011 11:06
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its just an option at the minute. i may be guilty of sensationalising my non-renewal statement [V]

I will probably renew and then give my ticket away if i move [^]

Lisbonlegend Posted on 31/01/2011 11:07
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It's progressive passing football rather than gung ho under Brucey. I think Mowbrays philosophy being they can't score whilst we have possession and it will tire tham out, patient and wait for your openings. Strangely the opposite seems to happen and we capitulate in the last 5 minutes.

bear66 Posted on 31/01/2011 11:07
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"It's good to watch at least."

Football is entertainment as well as a local tribal thing to do. I remember watching Sheff U in their long ball era and thinking "who would go and watch this rubbish every week even if it plays to their strengths?"

Home and away I'm enjoying the football now.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 31/01/2011 11:08
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bear, how do you think your mate Emnes has done since he returned? Are you happy with his goals output?

Bandy Posted on 31/01/2011 11:11
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at the moment I am enjoying watching Joe Bennett, Matty Bates and Nicky Bailey who are all performing to their maximum ability

bear66 Posted on 31/01/2011 11:14
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@lisbon

No, he's missed a few! But he has been part of the transformation of the team from plodders to (potential) winners . . . . shame he doesn't play in defence to give them a boost (in the last 10 minutes) as well

Lisbonlegend Posted on 31/01/2011 11:18
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I agree, he makes us a bit more exciting to watch, I just wish he could put the ball in the back of the net aswell. Looks stronger and more focused than he did previously, just needs to push on a bit now.

Spot on Bandy, Bailey and Bennett have been recent highlights for me. I'm still nowhere near convinced by Bates but he is better than McManus.

Bandy Posted on 31/01/2011 11:22
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Bates is a very good player. he could play in the premiership no problem. We are lucky that we have him here as captain

Lisbonlegend Posted on 31/01/2011 11:27
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Bates is a decent player but his concentration levels are suspect. He's given away goals at Watford, Coventry, turned his back at Leeds. At home he has got away with it as the mistakes he has made haven't been punished. Against Millwall in the first minute when he stupidly kicked the ball straight out for a corner and when he dived in the second half and against Norwich where he again inexplicably kicked the ball straight out. These are just the mistakes I can remember off the top of my head.

skiprat Posted on 31/01/2011 11:53
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Lisbon I could label exact moments like that against Wheater, yet he was our best defender apparently.

Humpty Posted on 31/01/2011 11:53
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"Bates is a very good player. he could play in the premiership no problem. We are lucky that we have him here as captain"

I don't agree. Do you not wonder why there's been no speculation surrounding him? Especially as all our players are being cherry picked at the minute.

Humpty Posted on 31/01/2011 11:55
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"Lisbon I could label exact moments like that against Wheater, yet he was our best defender apparently."

one's playing premier league football the other isn't. I think that speaks for itself.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 31/01/2011 11:56
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Other than the Watford backpass I rarely remember Wheater making a mistake despite him playing the most games for us.

MarlonD Posted on 31/01/2011 12:27
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"Bates is a very good player. he could play in the premiership no problem. We are lucky that we have him here as captain"

Agreed.

Humpty Posted on 31/01/2011 12:45
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So why isn't he playing in the premier league?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 31/01/2011 12:47
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He's not our worst player by any stretch of the imagination but think you are going overboard saying we are lucky to have him.

MarlonD Posted on 31/01/2011 12:51
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I would imagine his serious injuries might put people off tbh and I think the lad realises he owes a certain level of loyalty after we stood by him during these periods.

Who knows whether their has been enquiries behind closed doors and we've just thrown them out ? Also he has a fair bit of his contract left so going back to the first point, clubs might not want to risk x amount on him.

And iirc before he signed his last contract West Ham and Everton were sniffing around.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 31/01/2011 12:53
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Fair enough, he's a decent footballer, still not convinced he is strong enough without someone like Wheater next to him. Nor by his concentration levels although hopefully these will improve with time.

MarlonD Posted on 31/01/2011 12:56
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Imo, Bates improved Wheaters performances, not vice versa.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 31/01/2011 13:01
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Haha, what a load of tosh.[:D]

Bandy Posted on 31/01/2011 13:07
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I think Wheater is more prone to lapses of concentration

MarlonD Posted on 31/01/2011 13:09
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Load of tosh ?!?!

So have you been there when Wheater let the ball sail over his head against Barnsley away which resulted in a goal ? He also did exactly the same against Doncaster away.


Humpty Posted on 31/01/2011 13:21
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give over Marlon [:(]

He signed a new contract only a year or so back. If West Ham/Everton were interested he would've been off like a shot.

MarlonD Posted on 31/01/2011 13:28
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Seems your memory is as short as your gammy leg


Link: gimp

skiprat Posted on 31/01/2011 13:31
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"Other than the Watford backpass I rarely remember Wheater making a mistake despite him playing the most games for us."

First game against Ipswich.

Watford's third goal when he sauntered over allowing them to cross and score.

Leeds at home, exactly the same.

Preston last year when he and Brad Jones were having a heart to heart while the ball sailed over them into the back of the net.

I could go on.

There are a lot of poor players in Premier League squads.

Humpty Posted on 31/01/2011 13:59
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So he chose to sign a new contract with championship Middlesbrough rather than premier league West Ham? Dream on dingle [V][:o)]

Skiprat there aren't too many poor players playing in the top half of the premier league. That's quite a weak arguement in all honesty.

MarlonD Posted on 31/01/2011 14:02
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Their was a big hoo-ha about it ffs. Southgate trumepeted the contract signing as like a new signing etc.

Go and google 'Matthew Bates Everton West Ham' and see how many articles their is about this story.




Humpty Posted on 31/01/2011 14:04
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I don't need too. If an offer was on the table from a premier league club he would not be here right now. Surely you're not naive enough to believe he'd turn down a premier league club becuase he owed us something?

MarlonD Posted on 31/01/2011 14:05
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in fact here is the official MFC article


Link: gimp

MarlonD Posted on 31/01/2011 14:11
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How many articles about his future can be 100% wrong though, no matter which website or paper they were in ?

The simple fact is that the football 'world' were stating that PL clubs were after Bates due tio him being out of contract.

If their were no articles I would tend to agree with you but the sheer volume at the time of 'gossip' suggested that their were PL clubs interested.


Link: another one

Humpty Posted on 31/01/2011 14:15
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"a number of premier league suitors were said to be interested"

[:D] they'd know if 'suitors' were interested as there'd be offers on the table for him.

The club would also have revealed that he turned premier league clubs down, as it would be better PR for MFC

MarlonD Posted on 31/01/2011 14:24
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Why would we have offers on the table for him, he was out of contract.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 31/01/2011 14:31
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Humpty, It's pointless arguing with Marlon, he's clueless. Wheater has been carrying our defence all season, he must have the naked Bates poster blu tacd to his ceiling.

PinkPonce Posted on 31/01/2011 14:38
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I agree with Marlon ... Wheaters performances definately improved with Bates alongside him ...

PP ... x

Humpty Posted on 31/01/2011 14:39
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No, but we'd have known about any offers that were on the table because Bates would've used to them to barter for a better wage.

P.s. The ball into the box that Preston scored from would've been cleared by Wheater

Lisbonlegend Posted on 31/01/2011 14:39
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Or maybe Bates was just better than McManus.

MarlonD Posted on 31/01/2011 14:40
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Lisbon, when you've been laid up with bird flu/becoming the only 30-something asthmatic/ski-ing/playing soccer with your London chums/drinking shandy with pauluka/trying, without success, to lose the man t1ts*, some of us have been attending most of the games. Wheater has been woeful at times this season, Bates has been better than him on most occasions.



*delete as whichever excuse is appropiate

Humpty Posted on 31/01/2011 14:41
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or, shock horror, Wheater plays better when he has centre half partner settled alongside him.

Humpty Posted on 31/01/2011 14:47
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wrong again Marlon and numerous media outlets will tell you as such in their season match ratings.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 31/01/2011 14:49
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Marlon, you mean you and the munch bunch have been watching 45 minutes and then heading off to the pub.

MarlonD Posted on 31/01/2011 14:57
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So let me get this right humpty, you're willing to agree with the media with their match ratings but fob it off as rubbish when they all run the same story about Bates maybe going to West Ham etc.

You know what I think I'll leave you and Chi-Chi to it.


Humpty Posted on 31/01/2011 14:59
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yes, one is speculation the other is opinion.

skiprat Posted on 31/01/2011 15:14
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Skiprat there aren't too many poor players playing in the top half of the premier league. That's quite a weak arguement in all honesty.

Sam Ricketts
Tamir Cohen
Sean Davis

There's three just from Bolton's squad.

Humpty Posted on 31/01/2011 15:25
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I must've missed them playing for bolton this season [:o)]

skiprat Posted on 31/01/2011 15:29
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Nothing was said about them playing, the inference was that if they're in a Premier League squad then they are good players only by that basis.

Humpty Posted on 31/01/2011 16:24
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"Skiprat there aren't too many poor players playing in the top half of the premier league."