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r00fie Posted on 21/11/2010 08:23
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

His piece in the Sunday Sun sums up yesterday perfectly and Middlesbrough Heavy Handed Club spot on. For once hes highlighted the "soft - centred" team that couldnt hit a cows arse with a banjo. A spineless bunch of donkeys who "are not good enough". I agree when he points out that the club are "heavy handed" on the dedicated fans in the South East Corner. The club gobs off about "vandalism" and wades in on young kids instead of looking at where senior management have guided the club in the last four years. The club is acting like a bully who suddenly realises hes lost his mates.


Empty corporate boxes, rows and rows of empty brittle plastic "seats", more empty space than Hackney Marshes and bigger holes in the team than in the galaxy. Sales down on match days, burger flippers twiddling their thumbs, sales of fizzy carlsberg dwindling and people saying "stuff this".


Tony Mowbrays arrival may have upped our expectations temporarily, but just like the royal wedding is a political move to cheer up the nation, people are still losing benefits, their homes and their jobs. No amount of papering over the cracks is hiding the dire straights the business finds itself in.


Bullying kids, using "rules" like some dictatorship, are not the way to encourage anyone to take part in the pantomime. Neil Bausor, Keith Lamb and Dave Alan are all part of this process and have to be made accountable. Empty seats, empty boxes and a frighteningly rapid decline suggests to any rational person that they arent doing their jobs properly.


If they dont agree with whats being said then come out and defend your actions. Its not unreasonable to ask questions of them. They are not fireproof nor indispencible or irreplacable. Perhaps they have been too long in a job, along with other suites, and we need to sweep clean with a new broom, on and off the pitch.


If MFC was a bank, they would have been bailed out on grounds of being crucial to the economy. Unfortunately for those behind the tinted glass of the Riverside Stadium the folk of Teesside are not going to pay to see the business decline. With christmas on its way, winter fuel bills and jobs being scarce, high ticket prices and arrogance seeping out from the front door, dont be surprised at even lower gates. Previous achievements are soon forgotten. Sentiment never fueled any business success. Time to wake up and prune the weeds.Take responsibility for whats happened.


thank god for RedFaction, they are the only good news next to Smiths Dock at the moment.

Sea_Harrier Posted on 21/11/2010 08:26
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

I stopped reading after, "His piece in the Sunday Sun".

r00fie Posted on 21/11/2010 08:27
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Morning SeaHarrier. Read the rest and you might agree some home truths.

CornwallBORO Posted on 21/11/2010 08:28
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Agree 100% the blame sticks with the topman, Steve gibson had made a right mess of this club over the last 4 years

r00fie Posted on 21/11/2010 08:32
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

No doubt people with slag us off, but so what. Name names! If anyone else can rationally explain then I for one are willing to listen. If senior managers at the club cant take criticism, then its time to move on. Winston churchill may have lead a nation to "victory", but after that the nation said "GO". Time for change, like it or not.

sasboro1 Posted on 21/11/2010 08:36
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

if we were playing good football, winning games and up near the top no one would be whinging about off field stuff. people want to take their frustrations out on other things because it is taboo to point the finger at gibson.

there would be about another 5,000+ at the game if we were playing well. thats how football works in cycles. everyone is happy and crowds full when a team is winning loads. empty, depressing and lots of whinging when near the bottom of the league.

the mogga effect didnt last long did it?

as for red faction, they are starting to do my head in because they have an agenda and trying to force a wedge between the club and fans. its times like these we should be getting behind the club. i've been going for 25 years and never had any issues with the stewards or club. people should support their club and stop trying to force a problem between fans and clubs.

we got spoilt from when bryan robson arrived to when the club got relegated and the banks started calling in the debts. you have to take the rough with the smooth. our supporters are poor at times, people just want excuses to stop going

i think people need to rememebr how bad it was at ayresome park. these red factions kids are too young to remember

also hasnt gibson given in and chosen the fans choice in mowbray? so now after 2 home defeats under mogga fans are complaining again.

keelo Posted on 21/11/2010 08:38
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Have to agree. Gibson has made a pigs ear out of running the club over the last 4 years...I know he's spent money but if Bulkhaul was run same as the club has been handled,there would be no Bulkhaul now. It started with the appointment of Southgate I'm afraid.A massive mistake....would he have asked one of his drivers to take charge of running his haulage company...barmy!!! Then another bad appointment in Strachan who has overloaded the club with dross....Mowbray is on a hiding to nothing too. The fans are leaving in droves having had enough of watching garbage. Couple 3 seats on from me went at half time yesterday muttering they are sick of watching rubbish on the pitch and were heading for a warm pub.......worrying times indeed

joseph99 Posted on 21/11/2010 08:46
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Remember MFC is very much a closed shop. The upper echelon strategists at the top of the organisational tree are too busy maintaining a mutual back-slapping society to recognise the obvious failings within the club. Incompetence has been allowed to flourish on and off the pitch and any anger within the club seems to vented at a bunch of kids in the SEC. Far too much sycophantic dick-swinging for Stevie-Baby's benefit is going on. Massaging Gibson's ego is not going to work or make things better - if anything it will make things worse. Meanwhile Gibson has either lost focus, enjoys all the dick-swinging or forgotten his roots, perhaps all three.

sasboro1 Posted on 21/11/2010 08:50
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

all that has happened is we borrowed to the hilt at our peak in the chase of the cups and uefa cup final. living the dream. the fans were living the dream. then the banks started to call in the debts so we had to start paying off the debt. wasnt too long ago that everyone was saying have faith in gibson, he knows what he is doing, in safe handsm best chairman in the country..etc

r00fie Posted on 21/11/2010 08:56
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

All this "get behind the club" is bollix. Thousands have voted with their feet and kept their money in their pockets. Blindly following an ailing business isnt common sense.If you were a shareholder (which is what fans briefly become when renting brittle plastic seats for 90 minutes)you would seriously question whats going on. Would you your invest money now into MFC? Which individual saved Boro is history. George Stephenson designed The Rocket and Dorman and Long brought steel to Teesside.But now we have no steel works and a sewer for a train service. Things dont get better by hanging onto the past. Romantic notions and sentiment dont build yeams that score goals.


Tony is a genuine experienced man with his heart in the right place. Hes been left with a rump of players, some of whom have desire to win. A group of young North east kids who are getting frustrated and look to the older professionals for leadership. The prima donas we bought in the last year are collecting their inflated wages and driving away in their glittering status symbols. (I for one admit to expecting promotion when some of them arrived).I was wrong.As the bloke in the Sunday Mirror sumises, tony is in for a long run with a "lop sided" team of individuals. No "team" there.

joseph99 Posted on 21/11/2010 09:02
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

One of the fundamental flaws with Gibson is that he tends to allow the strength of relationships dominate his major decision making processes and strategies. Southgate was his mate as was Strachan - both squandered his money and flopped. McClaren was not liked by the upper echelons but he did get the strategy right. Anyone else see the correlation?

r00fie Posted on 21/11/2010 09:10
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Agreed. Once the business relationship becomes clouded then decisions are made on the basis of not upsetting individuals. no matter who or what, sometimes a fresh wind needs to clear away the cobwebs.As for all the flap about "who will take over", wait and see. Steves a good bloke, but he and his entourage have made some of the worst decisions on team management since Mac left, than many top clubs in their history. witness where we are now.The only way is up, but looking at what we are now is a tired old car. Repairing it is costing more than buying a new one. Sell the old banger for spares. Time to rethink.

sasboro1 Posted on 21/11/2010 09:12
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

so do you think by appointing another mate in mogga he is destined to fail?

r00fie Posted on 21/11/2010 09:13
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Think.

sasboro1 Posted on 21/11/2010 09:13
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

you have just given yourself some sound advice there

r00fie Posted on 21/11/2010 09:15
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Rhetoric is not the answer. MFC are dying on their feet. Silly comments about Mogga being his "mate2 misses the issue entirely. Dont run a business son, because your attitude wouldnt make a success of a burger van.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 21/11/2010 09:15
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

For once I agree with a lot of what sas says except for the bit about the Red Faction, they're fantastic.

Buddy Posted on 21/11/2010 09:15
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Only thing I'm slightly struggling with is picking out any suggestions for improvement, other than "let supporters do what they want in the ground", which is at least debatable.

r00fie Posted on 21/11/2010 09:17
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Lets have some solutions then Lisbon. Start with the missing 16000 + missing fans, a year of the worst manger in living memory, relegation and a rump of has - beens and missfits. where do MFC go from here?

r00fie Posted on 21/11/2010 09:19
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Let me add. Who has guided the club into this predicament and which of them has had the balls to stand up, hold up their hand and said "Its partly my fault"? and taken responsibility?

HarryVegas Posted on 21/11/2010 09:20
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Gibbo's already said that Roofie.

sasboro1 Posted on 21/11/2010 09:21
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

"Rhetoric is not the answer. MFC are dying on their feet. Silly comments about Mogga being his "mate2 misses the issue entirely. Dont run a business son, because your attitude wouldnt make a success of a burger van"

roofie, i bet i would make a better go at running a business than you. i know how to make my money work for me, can you say the same? i would say you lack business sense because you think money grows on trees. we were borrowing more and more money in search of success. eventually it had to stop. then the credit crunch hit us. remember those quotes from lamb saying we will get the club we can afford? well this is what we can afford now.

and why are my comments about mogga silly, someone said gibson employs his mates and fails, isnt mogga a mate too? so will he fail?

r00fie Posted on 21/11/2010 09:21
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

And the Chief Operations Officer and Chief Executive Officer and "shut up" Watson and some of the others.

sasboro1 Posted on 21/11/2010 09:23
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

roofie, what experience do you have of running a football club?

MawTheMerrier Posted on 21/11/2010 09:23
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

I agree the club has made terrible PR decisions which are down to the ineptitude of the club management. Gibson I think, leaves them to get on with it, so perhaps he should change out the old guard. Get new club management in.

As for the playing side, I think Gibson got it spot on with Mowbray. He will build a side worth watching and that will get promotion. But it will take time. Dont panic and have some patience.

r00fie Posted on 21/11/2010 09:25
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Mr Sas. Like I pointed out to you before and to Lisbon. Lets hear your suggestions about the missing 16000+ and the fact we have had the worse manager in living memory, bottom of the old second division and a group of individuals who cant hit a barn house door? Who has "manged" the business into this predicament? Which individual businessmen have been a common denominator through three managers on the pitch since Mac left? Theres a clue there somewhere.

Buddy Posted on 21/11/2010 09:28
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

roofie - can you do a bit of research for me please? I want to know where our average attendance trend stands in relation to similar clubs over the last ten years or so. It's difficult to make any suggestions without knowing how much of it is part of a national trend.

r00fie Posted on 21/11/2010 09:31
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Do it yourself. Im not interested in "national trend(s)" Im interested to know why the whole east stand looked completely empty at the Portsmouth match, why stewards were bullying kids who were the only ones making a noise and why a proud club is like a motuary with nothing to suggest any change pretty soon. I love middlesbrough and Tony Mowbray, but heaven help us if we carry on like this.

sasboro1 Posted on 21/11/2010 09:31
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

missing 16,000? well they only came for the novelty of the riverside and the brazilan players. back under the good old days of rioch we got he crowds we get now.

strachan was a disaster for sure, gibson backed him with £8m. i bet you were one of those fans who thought strachan was a great appointment when he arrived,and very impressed with signing these players from scotland

think you need to get yourself out, maybe a nice brisk walk in teh country air or a session down the gym to settle down

i dont think you have got to grips with the idea that football is all ups and downs. strachan was a mistake,gibson knows that. do oyu realise that once you get relegated from the prem it has massive financial implications? no one complained when gibson was paying top wages in the prem for all these stars. now we complain about it. this is the danger when you pay top starsin the prem and end up going down. it cripples you financially. anotehr chairman might have let us go into administration.

joseph99 Posted on 21/11/2010 09:34
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

So Southgate was not a flop mmmmmmmm [rle]

Lisbonlegend Posted on 21/11/2010 09:35
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

It's obviously the responsibility of all concerned at the top. We reached the UEFA cup final by spending big and it made us no money. McClaren left so we looked at our options, Martin ONeill and Southgate. Gibson looked at the financial side of things and thought he saw something special in Southgate. It didn't work because Southgate made the decision to get rid of his mates like Schwarzer and Boateng to make a point plus people he couldn't control like Cattermole. He topped that off with some shocking signings like Alves, mido and tuncay. Strachan was brought in to add steel to a flimsy squad that had been beaten 5-0 at home by West Brom. He cocked it up by signing loads of players from a crap league.

So Gibson, Lamb, McClaren, Southgate and Strachan have to take the blame. The recession has also played a massive part in our decline as the bank has pulled the rug from under us, fans can't afford to go anymore and the whole frustration of our decline is too difficult for people to understand. People want a scapegoat and that's only natural. I don't believe a millionaire investor, if there was actually one around would be a long term benefit to the club. Short term yes, long term no.

The only way out is by winning football matches and that is difficult with the current lopsided squad. We need to sell ONeill to raise money but I would keep Wheater. We need width and creativity so Mowbray needs to pull some rabbits out of hats, forget this spirit of 86 nonsense, we need players who are good enough not local lads who are inexperienced. We need to beat Hull at home and he needs to stop changing his team every game.

boro74 Posted on 21/11/2010 09:36
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

The fatal error that got us where we are now was sacking Southgate and replacing him with Strachan.

The parachute payments finish this year and we still have a few players on Prem wages that we have to offload.

All we can hope for now is that Mowbray keeps us up and then, with time, builds a team that can compete in the top half of this division.

r00fie Posted on 21/11/2010 09:37
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Keep the personal comments in your pipe.I thought strachan was going to be great for the club and I hold up my hands. Ive done so elsewhere.I was wrong. I admit to being slightly bemused because Strachan didnt seem to fit the bill to manage Boro. Same as Gareth Southgate. Hindsight is wonderful, but in this environment a rookie manager managing a Premiership club, followed by a bloke who did nothing at southampton or coventry in the English league were decisions taken by Steve Gibson and Keith Lamb that could and should have been rectified earlier. The solution, I suggest, is to sweep clean the backroom and strip the team to the bare bones and start again. What weve got, front of house and in the back kitchen arent good enough. Look no further than where we are in the table. The only bloke worth his money at the moment is Tony Mowbray.

sasboro1 Posted on 21/11/2010 09:38
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

"So Southgate was not a flop mmmmmmmm [rle]"

well in his first 2 seasons we finished higher than we did in smac's last season. yes we got relegated but in 25 years i can think of 3 other boro managers that have experienced relegation. the club our size it will happen quite often. just like WBA,west ham,sunderland..etc

Buddy Posted on 21/11/2010 09:38
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

That's why nobody takes you seriously roofie. I WILL do it myself, because I'm interested, but you are behaving like a six-year-old if you won't consider any other factors than what's in front of your nose.

What Lisbon said, with the exception of some of the criticisms of Southgate's transfer activity.

sasboro1 Posted on 21/11/2010 09:39
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

sweep clean the backroom?

like who?

joseph99 Posted on 21/11/2010 09:40
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

The fatal errors that got us where we are now was appointing Southgate, at a time when the financials of the club had to be radically adjusted. Buying duds like Hoyte to replace Luke Young was one of the first cracks to appear in the Southgate reign.

Buddy Posted on 21/11/2010 09:41
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

"The parachute payments finish this year "

No they don't, there's another £16m coming over two years under the new deal.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 21/11/2010 09:41
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Southgate wasn't a flop, he was a disaster.

Go on Buddy, why the exception with the transfer activity?

boro74 Posted on 21/11/2010 09:42
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Southgate didn't get us where we are now.

Buddy Posted on 21/11/2010 09:44
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

I don't believe that the disposals were down to them being his mates, I believe they were down to their wages.

I don't agree that Tuncay was a shocking signing, and while Alves manifestly didn't work out nobody really could have seen that coming when he signed, so again putting him down as a "shocking signing" is harsh. The only one I'll agree with you on is Mido because everyone and his wife knew what he was likr.

joseph99 Posted on 21/11/2010 09:44
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

So Southgate was a success mmmmmmmmm !! As soon as HIS team took the field it failed catastrophically.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 21/11/2010 09:46
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

If it wasn't for Southgate we wouldn't be where we are now, he was one of the main catalysts of our downfall.

r00fie Posted on 21/11/2010 09:47
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

We all love our club and thats obvious, but our frustration is because we dont want to see the patient moved from an assessment ward to critical care.Its because of that such passion is raised on this board and in other places. I for one will not bury my head if I think the current CEO, COO and chairman have chuffed up. Those that fear change are the pegs that are not understanding what they are looking at and dragging us back.Like many on here Ive followed this club for well over 30 years, but I wont pay for dross nor take any pleasure in saying so. Football is no longer the working class game like it was when I was a kid and went in the bob end for a less than "ten bob".smart arsed comments wont alter the fact the club is in the crap.


Lisbon, I agree with you entirely about the economy and its particularly harsh impact on Teesside, but that cant be used as the cause entirely to explain our dire situation.

Buddy Posted on 21/11/2010 09:48
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Lots and lots of rhetoric, but few facts and even fewer suggestions.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 21/11/2010 09:50
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Buddy, I agree that wages were a main reason why but it was also their age and the fact he found it difficult to manage them. Tuncay was maybe not a shocking signing but a poor signing as we didn't have a clue where to play him. Add to that list Digard, Emnes, Dong Gook Lee, Hoyte, etc. Alves was £13m and was a complete flop.

sasboro1 Posted on 21/11/2010 09:52
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

"So Southgate was a success mmmmmmmmm !! As soon as HIS team took the field it failed catastrophically. "

well like i said he did BETTER in his first 2 league seasons than smac did in his last league season. then when we looked within a chance of going up he was was sacked

then we started cutting costs. lamb said we would get the team we could afford so it was starting. i dont think fans realise the finacial state we were in after the uefa cup final season. southgate said at wone point we were £85m in debt..it couldnt carry on as it was. where do people think the momey cam from to finance things under smac and bryan robson?

strachan failed catastrophically.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 21/11/2010 09:55
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Roofie, I wasn't blaming the recession entirely, I was blaming poor appointments and poor management in a cost cutting climate for both the club and fans. Only results on the pitch can halt the slide and so Tony Mowbray has the future of MFC in his hands.

sasboro1 Posted on 21/11/2010 09:55
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

tuncay was a good signing..we made £6m on him[^]

boro_tyke Posted on 21/11/2010 09:55
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

sasboro:

From reading a number of your posts on various threads, itís clear you have a very jaundiced opinion of a group you seem to understand little about.

Firstly, the group are not Ďkidsí Ė I myself appear to have been supporting the team longer than you have. Whilst I donít make any claim to be a better fan than you or the next man, what I would like to do is meet you and expalin in person exactly what Red Faction stand for and are about.

Perhaps then you may have a more balanced and informed opinion on the group and speak from a position of knowledge. The offer is open indefinitely. Simply email Rob with your number or email address and Iíll be more than happy to get in touch and arrange to meet with you.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 21/11/2010 09:59
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

That's funny because I don't remember Southgate taking us in to Europe or any cup finals. All I remember is blowing our best chance ever of winning the FA cup by capitulating at home to Cardiff, getting relegated and taking the spine out of the team, culminating in a demoralising 5-0 home defeat. Sometimes sas, you speak absolute rubbish, sorry, most of the time.

joseph99 Posted on 21/11/2010 09:59
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

So with that approach we can blame 100% Mogga for the current performnaces even though he innherited dogturd? Surely it works both ways!

Lisbonlegend Posted on 21/11/2010 10:00
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Tuncay made us £6m, haha.[:D]

sasboro1 Posted on 21/11/2010 10:01
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

just stop stiring up shyte with the club and getting fans to turn against the club. we need to be as one in these hard times. take a leaf out of the 12th man on how to work with the club.

you can explain on here what red faction is about if you want.

i've never had a problem with stewards in 25 years so why cant everyone else be the same?

r00fie Posted on 21/11/2010 10:02
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Lisbon. OK. Its hard enough dragging myself away from work b4 xmas and getting up from the East Midlands, let alone London (!!!). A few more Scunthorpe atmospheres ad grit from the team might change things. At the minute we just cant cut the mustard and its feeling eerily like 82 - 86 when we fell like a stone into the mire.I agree there is no easy answer, but it doesnt make the heartache any easier to take[sad]



Lisbonlegend Posted on 21/11/2010 10:02
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

What approach Joseph?

sasboro1 Posted on 21/11/2010 10:03
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

"All I remember is blowing our best chance ever of winning the FA cup by capitulating at home to Cardiff"

didnt we play chelsea in the final once? surely thats our best chance of winning it?

TenPints Posted on 21/11/2010 10:06
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

You'll get no response from Rob today . The blokes sat at home with a bottle of Vodka . Thinking how can i put some spin in my match report on that XXXXXXe served up yesterday , without upsetting Uncle Keith .

Go on rob grow some fella [:D] . It was pure XXXXXXe . As one poster has already pointed out the whole match-day experience was awful .

Lisbonlegend Posted on 21/11/2010 10:06
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

I know roof, I was sickened after yesterdays game as I never thought we would lose to them. We don't have the players to play his diamond formation so I hope he realises sooner rather than later. Everyone is demoralised and we just want to take our anger out on someone. A win against Hull will lift the gloom so we have to keep the faith and hope Mowbray has the answers.

Lisbonlegend Posted on 21/11/2010 10:08
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Well done on dodging the post sas. Clueless.[^]

r00fie Posted on 21/11/2010 10:09
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Up The Boro[^][:D] My last word on this today. I promise, but point made.[fb]

gravyboat Posted on 21/11/2010 10:09
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Your drum is waking him up, b_t.

Lisbon sums it up nicely, including Southgates bad signings.

Yesterday was depressing. Two bad teams at the wrong end of the second division, with almost no quality. Unfortunately we're going to have put up with a lot more of this, hope we survive, and look forward to next season.

We'll be back.

jgreggs Posted on 21/11/2010 10:10
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Thank god for Anthony Vickers. Fantastic piece.

sasboro1 Posted on 21/11/2010 10:11
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

dodging which post? the red faction one? i'm in doc browns before the game so they are welcome to come and find me in there.

so whats the red faction mission statement then?

boro74 Posted on 21/11/2010 10:12
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

You cannot blame Southgate for the mess we are in now. He left us with a team that had a reasonable chance of making the play offs. We are miles away from that now.

When Southgate was manager in the premiership we were paying bottom four wages. We finished 12th 13th and 19th.

In the championship we are paying top wages. When Southgate left we were near the top.

Strachan got us where we are now. It was also partly Gibson's fault for sacking Southgate and replacing him with Strachan.

gravyboat Posted on 21/11/2010 10:15
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

How do you know we were paying bottom 4 wages when we finished 12th and 14th?

Lisbonlegend Posted on 21/11/2010 10:15
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Haha, of course you can blame Southgate, he put us in this sh_yte division in the first place! Jesus H Christ![:o)]

Lisbonlegend Posted on 21/11/2010 10:19
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Southgate blew his entire transfer budget in our relegation season on Emnes, Digard, Mido, Tuncay and not forgetting Alves at the end of the previous season. That's about £30m wasted, which was over half our debt. Let's not blame him though cos he's a nice man.

jgreggs Posted on 21/11/2010 10:22
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Come on Rob, Fischer, Shakerooni, Atomic Loonybin, Uncle Albert and the other bum lickers of lamb and gibson. What do you think of the article?


gravyboat Posted on 21/11/2010 10:29
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

I don't think Fischer posts anymore, mate. Perhaps you should ring his show, if you're that bothered?


Joe_Laidlaw Posted on 21/11/2010 10:50
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

I fully agree with what Vickers wrote.

How many times have we on here talked about the prices and that they should be reduced to try and bring in more fans. The more fans through th door the more money these fans will spend.

Lamb and co have made gaff after gaff and are still in a job. We could start at the three points and work down a long list to the town getting the team it deserves.


sasboro1 Posted on 21/11/2010 10:55
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

they have reduced prices in the past but had limited impact. they probably did the sums and realised they made less money from it so reluctant to do it again. i think theyhave realised that the only way to get fans back is to have a good team winnign and playing good football. all the other side issues people complain about with suddenly becoem irrelevant and forgotten.

but we cant have it both ways :-cheap tickets and splashign otu on players to ge us out of this league. strachan spent a lot and wages are still high. then we lose the parachute payments too. i just think the club cant afford to drop prices.

gravyboat Posted on 21/11/2010 10:55
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Joe,

As you're one of those people who choose to continue to mis-quote Lamb, you're not really worth listening to.

gravyboat Posted on 21/11/2010 10:56
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Exactly Sas.

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 21/11/2010 11:02
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Its a vicious circle - a club like ours relies upon gate receipts (even more at this level and even more when you are near the bottom of the table) and our current gates will almost certainly mean we are operating at a loss week to week.

But then many of those who dont go criticise the club for not being 'ambitious' enough - I'm not blaming people for not going (thats their decision), but dont expect any great change soon whilst the poor gates continue.

sasboro1 Posted on 21/11/2010 11:03
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

what happens if they drop prices by 20% next season and only get another 1000-2000 extra fans at games? they make less money.

mogga became manager and after 1 game the crowds are back to about 15,000. same thing would happen with the ticket prices

woodymfc Posted on 21/11/2010 11:39
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Morning all

Look at how times have changed with continuous arguments across the board.

First up, Steve Gibson has openly admitted he dropped a few XXXXXX and will work hard to put it right, fair play to him for doing so. What more do you want hear ?
I'm not buying into Vickers nonsence in running down the club or anyone else quoting garbage about finances etc which they know nothing about. What is done is done in the past, today things may seem clouded but we do have a future with a brilliant leader in Tony Mowbray to sort it out on the field. All he needs from us is patience and support [^]

rob_fmttm Posted on 21/11/2010 11:59
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

It is obvious that loads of things have gone wrong. But Anthony Vickers gave an incredibly negative review of last week's game at Swansea. He must have seen a different game to everyone I have talked to or has been in touch with me since the game. That didn't help set the mood this week. The Gazette running the Red Faction story on the front page on a Friday was also a disaster.

But surely we have to come together now. You kick a wounded animal when it is down and risk killing it off. The stakes are too high now for in-fighting. We have to build bridges again not all point fingers.

thunderbird Posted on 21/11/2010 12:02
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Its very easy to have a go behind a keyboard and not worry that its not your money on the line.

If hes that critical Lets see the milky bar kid get some money to buy out Gibbo or become the next manager when it come around.

I would guess Vickers biggest decision in his life is to whether to have fries or not.

Journalist, I wouldnt XXXXXX on them if they where on fire.


sasboro1 Posted on 21/11/2010 12:12
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

rob, the relationship between the gazette and mfc must have take a battering under strachan. i can see quite a few people at the gazette being cheesed off from those times. wonder how long the gazette were sitting on that broken seats story? i mean they must have taken the photo and those seats would have been fixed not long after the last home game. did the gaztte time it for the even of a home game?

Holgateoldskool Posted on 21/11/2010 13:38
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Rob -you say about building bridges ? Think that should be directed to the owners and management of the club.

More and more fans are realising the inept clueless management have contributed in a large scale to our demise.

PAULIEJ Posted on 21/11/2010 14:00
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

I agree 100% with everything Vickers says.The club is dying on its feet and its times like these that you need leadership and togetherness, two things that the club is totally lacking. Gibson has made some shocking decisions lately but seems untouchable because "he saved the club". What a load of bollox, Gibson was part of a consortium that saved the club and yes he did the hard work and led us to better things but a lot of money came from elsewhere. We need to stop living in the past and start thinking that he should be held accountable for the mess that the club is in now.At any other club in any other league he would have been hounded out years ago.
As for the fans,empty seats etc, why not at least start by giving season ticket holders the chance to buy cheaper tickets for family and friends?? That way we get more fans in but do not run the risk of upsetting the season ticket holders too much. As a season ticket holder myself I couldn,t give two XXXXXXs if tickets are offered cheaper. If it gets more backsides on seats then great.Times are hard on Teesside I can afford a season ticket but lots cannot,lets offer cheaper tickets and see what happens. It aint rocket science and we really need to start looking at ways to turn things round on and off the pitch.

rob_fmttm Posted on 21/11/2010 14:03
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

The problems started in the McClaren period or even before. The club didn't move with the times, there was stagnation, arogance even and that crossed over to supporters who took too much for granted. It is quite unreal now to look back at the season we got to a European final and recall people arguing on here that we should have been charging only a fiver for UEFA Cup games because who wants to see a team from Bulgaria.

But I think you should only dredge up the past when you want to learn from it. There is no point at all in saying it was all Southgate's point, the damage was done then etc.

In my opinion Middlesbrough got it right in appointing Neil Bausor to drive the commercial arm forward in appointing Anthony Emmerson, the first ever supporters officer etc. These are forward decisions learned from past mistakes.

Quite how any foreign investor could come in now and turn things round is beyond me. What it needs maybe is a big "think in" by supporters from all factions and fractions with the football club in how we learn and change and go forward together.

Take the two shops they have listened to their customers and have more replica shirts than ever before using a chest band design the public wanted. The t-shirts and other stuff for sale is better quality and better designs. The replica stuff is a direct response to public demand also. Yet they need fans to support them and spend money there.

It is hard times for everyone but we have to rally round and support our own club. A local chairman, manager and many local teams. A club that supports the community, charities etc and tries to give everyone a helping hand through its various community projects. The club desperately needs that communities support.

What we could do with is lots of ideas on here of how to improve things. Time for constructive and reasoned thought. No point in just blaming. Between us we come up with so many great ideas, from banners to ticket giveaway schemes. Lets all get our thinking caps on and find ways in which we can improve the Middlesbrough experience and ways in which we can go forwards and not backwards again.


oooooo Posted on 21/11/2010 14:04
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

rob_fmttm clearly thinks that Vickers should sweeten things up a little to give the club a break, eh? Honestly, stuff like that makes it very difficult to defend you when people claim you are a puppet of the club, rob.

Stabilo_Boss Posted on 21/11/2010 14:13
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

"if we were playing good football, winning games and up near the top no one would be whinging about off field stuff"

This comment, 3 posts in, is telling. The fact is, the tactless off-field stuff has been going on for years but, as SAS said, no one minded when times were better. Now we're rubbish, it's having a disproportionate impact.

The marketing / PR at the club is very poor, bordering on amateurish, and has been for a long time. They have no idea how to communicate with fans, there's been little or no attempt to incentivise a new generation of fans or address the concerns of the more established supporters. Like it or not, clubs these days are brands and apparently no one at Boro has a clue how to build a successful one.

Buddy Posted on 21/11/2010 14:13
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

You can't argue with much of Rob's last post though oooooo. And the only difference between Vickers and the rest of us is that his immediate thoughts get printed for everyone to read, so "repenting at leisure" has a less wide audience.


Link: Better today

PAULIEJ Posted on 21/11/2010 14:14
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Rob all very commendable but it seems to me and lots of others that the club will only listen to ideas they like and will bring good PR to the club.Its no good coming up with ideas if the club don,t go along with them.

boro74 Posted on 21/11/2010 14:15
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

"Quite how any foreign investor could come in now and turn things round is beyond me"

How true. We couldn't even find anyone to be sponsors on the shirt and had to sell it month by month.

There is no alternative to Steve Gibson.

r00fie Posted on 21/11/2010 14:19
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

I started the thread and I strongly condemn being personal about Rob even if you disagree with him.I disagree with Rob about Bausor and Emerton. Look at the empty boxes, empty seats and falling sales at the ground. Theres the proof there that they are failing and it can be seen by our own eyes.

Anthony vickers isnt always my favourite man and he sometimes gets up himself, but this time he has hit the nail on the head.

woodymfc Posted on 21/11/2010 14:23
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Rob all very commendable but it seems to me and lots of others that the club will only listen to ideas they like and will bring good PR to the club.Its no good coming up with ideas if the club don,t go along with them.

PualieJ

If you don't ask, you don't get fella, and it's far better to be positive in having idea's to be considered rather than sit on the armchair pointing fingers at the people who are trying

PAULIEJ Posted on 21/11/2010 14:26
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Woody totally agree mate and my idea about cheaper tickets is my input.I still believe that the club do not listen enough.That is not sitting in my armchair mate its my opinion.

woodymfc Posted on 21/11/2010 14:34
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

mmmmmm well the armchair one forget in your case as you travel far and wide watching the team [^]

Have the club been approached about ticket price cuts ? Could the club afford to risk the move considering the debts they already have ? And ontop of that we need some new playing staff for sure, where will that money come from ?

PAULIEJ Posted on 21/11/2010 14:41
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Woody, the way the club is now then anything has to be worth a try.
I have said on another post that if you let a kid in for a quid and they then spend a fiver or tenner on other things then surely that has to be better than an empty seat? It maybe me being simplistic and others may put me right but we have to start trying something.

woodymfc Posted on 21/11/2010 14:54
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Thats the spirit [^]

grantus Posted on 21/11/2010 14:55
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

sasboro quote "i've never had a problem with stewards in 25 years so why cant everyone else be the same?"

FFS Sas, the atmosphere is bad enough as it is, we certainly don't need any more of you than one in the stadium.

*Imagines a stadium full of Sasborolike support* Shudder!

captain5 Posted on 21/11/2010 15:01
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

You're not genuinely questioning someone else's support are you?? [:D]

grantus Posted on 21/11/2010 15:30
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

You're not genuinely a bit thick are you? [:D]

rob_fmttm Posted on 21/11/2010 16:01
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Have just read back my comments a few hours on and I should say I'm not blaming the Gazette. The story was put to them and they think it a front page story. Their job is to sell papers. Also, Vic saw the game differently and that is what he is paid to do. We need him to be independent. Just I'm saying that one influential impression of one game can have a big effect. And a front page of the local paper on a Friday is also going to get people talking.

I think we have to pull together now as fans and think about how we can support and feel apart of Middlesbrough Football Club. What we expect from the club, the team and what we expect from ourselves.

It is all so easy to make scapegoats and take comfort in blaming past decisions. But it is a lot more difficult to think of how we can all help to get us out of our current state. I use the words "us" and "we" cos when I tell others I am proud to support Middlesbrough Football Club I do feel part of that club as a supporter. Maybe you don't right now but how do we build those bridges? How do start again?

juninhosdivingheader Posted on 21/11/2010 16:32
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Vickers' thoughts are irrelevant. He supports Newcastle United. Always has done.

Everyone can see Mowbray has a massive task. He said so from day one too.

As for it being bad timing to attack Red Faction - well, first of all the club haven't done that. They have pointed out that violence and stadium damage is emanating from the south-east corner and called on ALL fans to help bring it to an end for the good of the club and supporters. The fact that Red Faction are so deeply entrenched in everything to do with the South East corner is telling - as is their own former member saying that they want to be ultras

So what does Vickers want the club to do. Sit back and think of England while these so called fans take us back to 70s style violence?

newyddion Posted on 21/11/2010 16:35
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Anthony Vickers is a complete Bell end [:(!]

joseph99 Posted on 21/11/2010 17:19
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Rob, you fail to accept that in the real world of PLc's, if a business is failing catastrophically like MFC, there are normally heads rolling in senior positions of accountability: this is correct and wise action. As Gibson is the owner he needs to wield the axe in the "boardroon" to kill the effects of deadwood.

Moreover, in the real world, the client base is not obliged to blindly pay good money for an awful product. If product quality is repeatedly bad, there is something patently wrong at the core of the supplier and changes are needed. If the supplier arrogantly fails to acknowledge its shortcomings via its clients then the supplier will eventually go out of business. Even though many clients are no longer using the MFC supplier, still it fails to take on board the real issues of its long-standing faithful clients. PRIDE COMES BEFORE A FALL.

jgreggs Posted on 21/11/2010 18:00
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

joseph[^]

juninhosdivingheader Posted on 21/11/2010 18:06
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

what I find it difficult to understand is how the club can be accused of being "heavy handed". If they had banned the Red Faction, that would be heavy handed.

As it is, they haven't even blamed the Red Faction - despite much evidence to suggest that they maybe could - and have actually just appealed to whoever is causing the damage and getting involved in violence to stop.

Instead of feeling annoyed, Red Faction should be agreeing with the club and distancing themselves from the violence/damage - and condemning it.

foggysfplandiet Posted on 21/11/2010 21:59
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

"Vickers' thoughts are irrelevant. He supports Newcastle United. Always has done."

Eh? Not from what he's written about the swine in the past!


redhead1 Posted on 21/11/2010 22:06
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

'all that has happened is we borrowed to the hilt at our peak in the chase of the cups and uefa cup final. living the dream. the fans were living the dream. then the banks started......'

Not all fans bothered to chase the dreams, look at the abysmal attendances for the Euro games.

Those fans who have deserted the club were not there at Ayresome Park that is for certain. We had a new breed who all the true fans knew would not be with us when times got hard.

Back to the comments of ' Shopping with the missus' etc.

foggysfplandiet Posted on 21/11/2010 22:19
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

I could not believe the lousy attendances we got for some of the UEFA Cup games. I could not believe people did not come. What the hell did they want?

r00fie Posted on 21/11/2010 23:11
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

The point is that the Club is where its at and we as fans have no say so in themangement of the club or its actions. No matter what we think,until we have ownership in our club, we have no say and are treated like schit.

captain5 Posted on 21/11/2010 23:15
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

I think that's where it all changed.

The powers that be (Gibson) realised we wouldn't go back like when we had Juninho there.

You get all the way through to the latter stages of a European competition and the crowd is lower than any home league game that season.

redpaul Posted on 21/11/2010 23:17
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Roofie - "until we have ownership in our club, we have no say and are treated like schit."

Why, or how on earth, would you possibly think that you should have any part in the ownership of our club[rle]

It don't make sense

r00fie Posted on 21/11/2010 23:26
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

On the contrary, "ownership" means decision making and empowerment. If you leave it to a self appointed elite, we have to accept whats given. At the moment and since 2004 thats crap. There are other options, but thats up to other people.

HolgateCorner Posted on 21/11/2010 23:26
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Anthony Vickers is just an opportunist local reporter who is probably delighted that by putting the boot in on the club he's got over a hundred posts on here.

I think his fanzine style of writing became boring some time back and I've stopped reading him. I think the Gazette is even struggling to compete with this board at times in providing information to the fans.

When Mowbray came there were a few on here who warned that we were in for a long hard winter, even Mowbray himself said it would be a long job.

We've been here before, albeit before a lot of the X Factor generation of fans were born, and we have to just keep plugging away.

If the team gets it right on the pitch, the ground will fill again, we all know that. It's nothing to do with club/fan relationship or prices for that matter, even if it were free a lot of fans would only go if the team were performing better.

We had a good run from 1995 to 2009, we're now in a slump and as fans, unless you can afford to buy the club, we just have to hope it improves, because there is nothing you can do about it.

woodymfc Posted on 21/11/2010 23:30
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

rOOfie, unless you have millions in your pocket to take to the table, the only ownership you and the rest of us will have is by being loyal fans.

Being a fan requires ownership, even morso in these difficult days...........

KTF

r00fie Posted on 21/11/2010 23:33
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Ok woody. Where do they go from here? All we do is sit and watch...............like the officers in echelon[;)]

woodymfc Posted on 21/11/2010 23:41
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

I think Holgate explains it perfectly [^]

gravyboat Posted on 21/11/2010 23:45
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Yes.

You keep banging on about all these 'lost' 16000 fans, but the vast majority of them weren't real fans. As soon as the novelty wore off, they got bored and went back to doing whatever it was they did before.

The more perceptive on here have known for two years we would be around the 15k mark if we didn't go straight back up because that's the hardcore.

You're just pi55ing in the wind with all these incentives and deals and whatnot. We've got no money, and what little money we did have has been wasted. This is it mate, get used to it.


r00fie Posted on 21/11/2010 23:47
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Thank god you never served otherwise we would never have won a war[cr]

gravyboat Posted on 21/11/2010 23:50
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

You live in a fantasy world.

rob_fmttm Posted on 22/11/2010 00:28
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Anthony Vickers is not a Newcastle United fan.

VonBrock Posted on 22/11/2010 00:33
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Middlesbrough look like the team i grew up with..average normally with the odd day as a dog. you guys cant expect much more with a 15k average crowd

CornwallBORO Posted on 22/11/2010 07:39
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

The Euro attendences were awful becaue of overkill. Too many games, mini league, the football heads are filthy rich, while we get saturation. Football is fcuked, it died, get over it.

joseph99 Posted on 22/11/2010 07:48
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

When you look at the likes of Leeds, Man City, a nadir coinicided with a complete change at the top of the organisation. This unaccountable clique of grey suits are not stale, they have mould on them. It's all in the hands of Gibson, not the fans. Fans only witness the effects of the causes.

juninhosdivingheader Posted on 22/11/2010 15:07
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Vickers IS a Newcastle fan. He may support Boro to some extent too, perhaps through his job, but he is a Newcastle fan brought up in Middlesbrough.

piquett Posted on 22/11/2010 15:23
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

"dire straights "? Dear me!

juninhosdivingheader Posted on 22/11/2010 15:39
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

awful band. And they were Geordies too!

The_263 Posted on 22/11/2010 15:40
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Vickers is spot on! The truth is hurting many people on this thread, for various reasons it seems.

As for cheaply picking up on spelling mistakes, dreary me - Vickers' punctuation is 100% on the button.

juninhosdivingheader Posted on 22/11/2010 15:48
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

No. Vickers is trying to defend the indefencible - violence and damage to our stadium. What's wrong with you that you think that's OK?

piquett Posted on 22/11/2010 15:56
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

It's not a spelling mistake, just would have expected a little more from a professional journalist. As for his article I agree wholeheartedly.

The_263 Posted on 22/11/2010 16:12
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

juninhosdivingheader I have just googled Red Faction, MFC thugs, vandals and I recieved no hits .. are you exagerrating a point? I am pds Vickers would not condone such behaviour!

superstu Posted on 22/11/2010 16:39
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

"as for red faction, they are starting to do my head in because..."

"...its times like these we should be getting behind the club."

Say what you like about the politics of it all but Red Faction certainly get behind the club during matches. Admired them from the East stand on saturday and I know where I'll sit next time I'm back in Middlesbrough. It actually looked like they might be enjoying themselves. A far out concept, I know.

r00fie Posted on 22/11/2010 16:54
Middlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

Round and round in circles.Check our PaulieJ thread about where we go from here. Its got some good and very workable ideas. The club will have to give on some things, even if it loses some money in the short term. Any doubts about cost? Ask why 16000 plastics have no bums on them and where have people taken their money? There are no easy answers, but being arrogant hasnt helped the club in the last 12 months. Believe it, the CEO, COM and Chair are only human and can and do and have made mistakes. Heresy belongs to the church in the middle ages. Like any other fan I want to see us up there in the Premiership....but all this blind faith is simply that and wont get 16000 back or fill empty posh executive boxes will it?

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 22/11/2010 16:57
Moddlesbrough - The club have got it wrong - Anthony Vickers

'You keep banging on about all these 'lost' 16000 fans, but the vast majority of them weren't real fans.'

Always amuses me does that one.