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smifter Posted on 19/11/2010 11:37
The end of the Red Faction?

Yet again...The Club have responsible for pointing the finger at The Red Faction for trouble, I am so angry that the club again seems so intent in making the gap bigger between "us" and "them"

Can anyone from Red Faction clear up this seat breaking issue? I sit in the SE corner (Block 52) nearly every game and never seen any vandalism in the stadium, all I see is stewards constantly harrassing our fans. Last game when trouble kicked off outside the stadium as the picture shows, Red Faction were still mainly in the stadium!!

Looks like you are all going to be split up soon to get the real school experience!


Link: Unbelievable

mattrich Posted on 19/11/2010 11:45
The end of the Red Faction?

Are you suggesting the club have created the damage themselves? Maybe they hired some militants to sit amongst RF to stir up trouble?

WorkingClassHero Posted on 19/11/2010 11:48
The end of the Red Faction?

Dont b silly. Them young kids took the p1ss last week, all in the name of Redfaction. Big XXXXXX off banners being run around the stewards. That is something redfaction lot are doing.

Why cause conflict. Sit back and support your club.

ovy1 Posted on 19/11/2010 11:49
The end of the Red Faction?

There is one chap on the second picture I can confirm is not red faction. He has an official middlesbrough shirt on!

smifter Posted on 19/11/2010 11:49
The end of the Red Faction?

Absolutely not, clearly someone has done the damage, but for so many to be broken, I am surprised as someone who sits in that area to never see any. Just wondering about people who sit further up than me, whether they have had certain people one game who did it who don't normally sit with them etc?

The lads/lasses who come on here from RF always maintain that they are there for nothing more than an atmosphere, so I am suggesting if this has happened, it is not people from the RF

flyermetothemoon Posted on 19/11/2010 11:49
The end of the Red Faction?

Are you naive enough to think the club does'nt have a vendetta against these fans.

piquett Posted on 19/11/2010 11:50
The end of the Red Faction?

Are you naive enough to think they do?

Muttley Posted on 19/11/2010 11:53
The end of the Red Faction?

I think it's naive to suggest that the club have a "vendetta" against the RF.

Come on, there's broken seats there. It's probably not RF that have done it. But with their stance and the activities of some fans on the fringes it wouldn't be surprising if the club closed the SE corner.

Time for the RF to grow up and talk to the club I think.

WorkingClassHero Posted on 19/11/2010 11:55
The end of the Red Faction?

flyermetothemoon and mattrich = same person me thinks

ThePrisoner Posted on 19/11/2010 11:56
The end of the Red Faction?

I think RF having pictures on their web-site with their members wearing scarves over their faces set off alarm bells from day one. Did with me.

EmnesDread Posted on 19/11/2010 11:58
The end of the Red Faction?

I can completely verify that the breaking of seats in our stadium, and the trouble outside last week had absolutely nothing to do with Red Faction.

We were still singing in the stadium 20 minutes after the game, during when the trouble happened.

This article is a blatent dig at RF, littered with incorrect quotes and accusations linking us with trouble and hooliganism, at the same time making reference to good old 12th Man and the Official Supporters group...real bad form[V]

I have never seen any violence in the South East Corner, just the best support for the Boro I have ever witnessed at the Riverside. Anyone can see RF are just trying to get behind their team.

Up the Boro

billdoor Posted on 19/11/2010 11:59
The end of the Red Faction?

Doesn't look black and white to me. If 34 seats have been damaged plus the 'trouble' after the Palace game, including a steward being injured, the bottom line is that some people have been d1cks. They may or may not be involved in RF, they might just be people who sit in the S/E corner.

Either way, criticising the club for asking people to calm the XXXXXX down is off the mark. They're the ones having to repair the seats and provide for the potential for trouble.

offthemap Posted on 19/11/2010 12:00
The end of the Red Faction?

so these tosspots break the seats IN THE SECTION WHERE THEY SIT and it's somehow the club ganging up on them?

They've been a bunch of hooligan wannabees from the first minute and cant wait for the club to get shot of them

WorkingClassHero Posted on 19/11/2010 12:02
The end of the Red Faction?

Why do you want to be ultras? Why do you take the p1ss out of stewards.

Answers please. Your not whiter than white. One of the pictures on gazette site definitely has a RF lad or 6 in.

Its about the team, not you

nor_mate Posted on 19/11/2010 12:02
The end of the Red Faction?

John 'rent a quote' Donovan getting in there I see [^]

sasboro1 Posted on 19/11/2010 12:04
The end of the Red Faction?

they were all kids stood by the fence goading the palace fans. clearly they were from that corner. but not sure if they are the red faction ones but they were the one in that corner.

i was surprised there was no police presence outside afte teh game. on another days those kids will end up messing with the wrong fans and get a good hiding

i think its not the red faction but idiots goign in there. they will spoil it for the rest and end up closing that area

smifter Posted on 19/11/2010 12:05
The end of the Red Faction?

off the map on complete wind up

Emnes completely agree, complete bad form from the gazette. I have never seen any violence whatsoever whilst sitting up there, I find it a positive area of the stadium to sit in. Me, my partner and Dad enjoying sitting up that end of the stadium (apart from the stewards) due to positive support and buzz up there. I find other areas have the stadium (not all) much more "negative" to sit amongst

HomeAndAway Posted on 19/11/2010 12:06
The end of the Red Faction?

how do they know that people walking round from the north stand are causing this trouble, people walk that way to get to there cars, this is just another of many obsticals the club are putting infront of us to stop the group progressing.

MarlonD Posted on 19/11/2010 12:07
The end of the Red Faction?

It was always going to attract Danny Dyer wannabees with it being located adjacent to the away fans.

Simple fact is, is that the RF will still exist but they may have to consider relocating to another part of the stadium.

I stood next to about a dozen of them at Norwich away and they were decent lads & lasses who like the vast majority of fans, just want to get behind their team.

However calling themselves ultras was always going to attract idiots and as the SE corner is now known pretty much as the RF corner they have to realise that incidents like agaianst Leeds & Palace will blacken their name.

WorkingClassHero Posted on 19/11/2010 12:08
The end of the Red Faction?

Can't believe there's a redfaction whistle blower. magic. The young uns will b most upset & the middle aged puppeteer who tells them what to wear.

the truth is out there. reclaim the corner I say. Mite get a ticket over there tomorrow. Wait on, think redfaction have spoiled that,,, police ban in place.

Is this the end of the drum then? Phil Collins he WASNT

WorkingClassHero Posted on 19/11/2010 12:11
The end of the Red Faction?

However calling themselves ultras was always going to attract idiots and as the SE corner is now known pretty much as the RF corner they have to realise that incidents like agaianst Leeds & Palace will blacken their name.[^][^]

Sums it up

oooooo Posted on 19/11/2010 12:12
The end of the Red Faction?

It's a group that bangs on about being against standing and the seats have been smashed - you can't really blame the club for connecting the dots.

Big_Shot Posted on 19/11/2010 12:13
The end of the Red Faction?

Didn't they once claim it to be 'their' area?

billdoor Posted on 19/11/2010 12:16
The end of the Red Faction?

"how do they know that people walking round from the north stand are causing this trouble, people walk that way to get to there cars, this is just another of many obsticals the club are putting infront of us to stop the group progressing."

There's CCTV all around the ground. They'll know exactly which part of the ground the people came from.

oooooo Posted on 19/11/2010 12:17
The end of the Red Faction?

One former member told the Gazette today: “The original reason the group was set up was passionate fans - fans, not hooligans - wanting to re-energise the stadium.

“But it now seems to be moving away from that - more Red Friction than Red Faction.

“It’s fans who’ll have to pay for the seats, plus the extra stewarding and policing bills.”

He said the group now contained lots of youngsters “who were being manipulated into breaking rule after rule by individuals who wanted to have no interface with Boro.”

He added: “We were being encouraged to avoid speaking to the club and create havoc like foreign ‘Ultra’ fans do.”

**********

The idea is good, the implementation is broken. Everyone wants a better atmosphere but smashing the stadium up and introducing violence again isn't a price worth paying.

abcdefg Posted on 19/11/2010 12:17
The end of the Red Faction?

Who's to say the Gazette/Club haven't put 2 and 2 together and came up with 3.

If I go sit in the SE corner am I suddenly part of 'Red Faction'? Of course not, just because something bad happens in that corner doesn't mean it is them to blame. It could of been them though, but it might not of been. The club don't know for sure but seem to want to make an example of that certain set of fans.

juninhosdivingheader Posted on 19/11/2010 12:17
The end of the Red Faction?

Interesting quotes from the former Red Faction member. They speak loudest. Very revealing.

Surely no fan can defend Boro supporters damaging the Riverside and reverting to 70s style hooliganism?

oooooo Posted on 19/11/2010 12:21
The end of the Red Faction?

abc, I don't think anyone can say it is definitely 'members' or not but they attract people and set the agenda that others follow. They have to take some responsibility for the hostile situation.

junouk Posted on 19/11/2010 12:22
The end of the Red Faction?

I sit close to the RF and I have to admit they are the best fans in the club for the vocal support. It is as close as I can remember the days when I was young and stand in the hogate. The days that made me a Boro fan for life.

My son is 16 and we have moved over to that corner from the West just so he can experiance the atmosphere of what I would call football. If you want to sit in silence to watch a game got o the pub.... Oh yes most people have.

having said that in defence of the club. If you do not stick to the club rules the club has an obligation to everyone that you obey the rules or DO NOT go to the game.

RF or people in the corner make it far to easy for the club. banners they know should not be in the stadium, people smashing seats (according to the pictures) and the opening the doors between Leeds fans. Get a grip. Add that to the sort of things mentioned on here like dont wear boror shirts to the game etc.

Forces the issue to an us and them. RF will not win. Club will shut the SE corner and move you all.

Its sad but if you give the club and the Bar stewards enough ammunition they will shut you down. lets not forget the £5 an hour hitler youth just laugh at you and your antics that get reported straight back to the club. RF cause us more problems than any other area of the ground....

Work with the club you support not against them.


nor_mate Posted on 19/11/2010 12:24
The end of the Red Faction?

them quotes will simply be made up as well.

juninhosdivingheader Posted on 19/11/2010 12:27
The end of the Red Faction?

nor_mate, which quotes?

Keith Lamb's, Red Faction's or john donovan's?

MarlonD Posted on 19/11/2010 12:36
The end of the Red Faction?

It doesn't help when they have pictures of the ultimate chav dog on their webpage header.




Link: Wuff

Midosparmo Posted on 19/11/2010 12:37
The end of the Red Faction?

Chav Faction.

djlocky9999 Posted on 19/11/2010 12:38
The end of the Red Faction?

its obviously the clubs fault for putting the away coaches on the back of the south stand and fencing the car park off.

p.s all this RF/12th Man slagging is gay. [:X]

boro-is-in-my-blood Posted on 19/11/2010 12:39
The end of the Red Faction?

One minute there 12year old kids the next minute fully fledged hooligans? Have a word.

Bobby_Braithwaite Posted on 19/11/2010 12:41
The end of the Red Faction?

If it isn't Red Fraction people doing this why don't Red Fraction go to the club and point the finger at those responsible?

Maybe it would be seen by the club that they really do only want to support the club and then they may get some favourable response from the club to their requests.

junouk Posted on 19/11/2010 12:49
The end of the Red Faction?

lol.. got to laugh at the 12th man.

Donavan said,
“We have always found the club to be willing to enter into dialogue and offer help to resolve any problems.”

I am sure when he said that he said "Nhah nah nanannah [;)]" after the sentance.

Why would he not say, We have no comment about other fans of this fantastic club. Or would that not have got his name in the papaer?

FFS we are fans of a club that has lost 15,000 supporters over 3 years. Stick together support each other and the team. It can never be us, them and them. As I am not a mamber of any group where does that leave me.


sasboro1 Posted on 19/11/2010 12:55
The end of the Red Faction?

hopefully the red faction red hand gang will makie a statement distancing themselves from these idiots and say they will help the club to rid them

gravyboat Posted on 19/11/2010 12:56
The end of the Red Faction?

For all his attributes, I'm not sure Heston Blumenthal is the right man to be assessing seat damage.

captain5 Posted on 19/11/2010 12:57
The end of the Red Faction?

To be fair, junouk.......

You don't know whether he did say anthing else.

Anyone who's dealt with journalists know that they often don't report everything someone has said.

grantus Posted on 19/11/2010 12:59
The end of the Red Faction?

The Red Faction could do everyone a favour and smash up all the seats, they are XXXXXXe anyway, worse than 2 bob school seats.

The cheapest seats that the club could find?

Tell everyone to sit down and give them the worst seats in Teesside to sit in. [rle]

boro8686 Posted on 19/11/2010 13:00
The end of the Red Faction?

i sat very close to the RF on saturday and all i saw was the stewards persistently harrassing the lads for no good reason.
As for the incident outside the RF have already stated they were still inside the ground at the time.
Any seats that were broken surely they can go over the cctv footage and pinpoint the individuals involved who were sat there? seems a little harsh to label all of them the same.
smacks of the 80's when the tory government labelled anyone who attended a football match as a hooligan.

smifter Posted on 19/11/2010 13:01
The end of the Red Faction?

34 seats have been broken, I am accussing anyone of lying here, has anyone on here seen anyone breaking any seats?

Any bother at the game is always on here within an hour, I am just surprised thats all that all these seats would be broken, yet no one has said "yes I saw those ....... breaking them etc" It doesn't state whether all these seats are in that corner.

piquett Posted on 19/11/2010 13:01
The end of the Red Faction?

"Stick together support each other"
I still can't fathom why they moved from the North Stand to the SE corner, all they are doing is fractioning the vocal support, fair enough if you are in the SE corner it sounds great, but from the NS you can hear nothing, as I presume you can't hear the NS from the SE corner, wouldn't it be better if the the vocal support was congregated all in one stand opposite the away fans as it traditionally was at Ayresome Park, and as far as I'm aware at every other ground in the country (Derby excepted)?

ChrisPeaCock Posted on 19/11/2010 13:03
The end of the Red Faction?

Why don't the RF just sit down and clap very politely, whilst keeping warm with patchwork blankets and a hot Bovril. The place would be a bloody morgue without them giving their all for 90 plus minutes. If any of them are are causing damage or fights that's a different matter, but I think the Stewards have a lot to answer too in their behaviour and attitude towards them. When the hell has a banner or a beach ball caused any safety problems. Oh hang on...


Link: Ooooopppsss...

sasboro1 Posted on 19/11/2010 13:05
The end of the Red Faction?

"34 seats have been broken, I am accussing anyone of lying here, has anyone on here seen anyone breaking any seats?"

do you think the club have done it themselves to get rid of RF?

smifter Posted on 19/11/2010 13:07
The end of the Red Faction?

No Sas, as I said I am just surprised no one has seen this, that is a lot of damage for no one to have seen.
Is there anyone on here who can point out individuals responsible rather than we all label Red Faction the big hoolies that have caused all the damage

gravyboat Posted on 19/11/2010 13:08
The end of the Red Faction?

I agree with the sentiments of that Piquett. I'd much rather they were in with us in block 21 in the north, because, as you say, you can't really hear them anyway.

But perhaps it was difficult for them to all get seats together? Plus, its more expensive.

rob_fmttm Posted on 19/11/2010 13:15
The end of the Red Faction?

smifter they have all the evidence they need that these things have happened in the last 3 games. People are obviously jumping on the back of Red Faction. I'm sure knowing some of the people involved in Red Faction they would not want anything to do with trouble. I guess as said above they probably need to distance themselves from those that are destroying their good name.

junouk Posted on 19/11/2010 13:15
The end of the Red Faction?

In the Holgate fans who wanted to sing moved to the area that was singing.

In an all seater stadium you dont have that option. The SE corner was amost empty so they had no restrictions and they could all stand/sit/sing together. In a group.

Sue Watson summed up the clubs stance with that stupid letter. The phuqued up, an empty stand means more and more people can join them and now they have attracted some young hooligan element. Not part of the group but associates of them.

Remember West Brom last year was it 2 or 3 lads running at the Baggies PML. all from the RF corner. Made themselves look like idiots and also brought the corner to everyones attention.

Libbins Posted on 19/11/2010 13:19
The end of the Red Faction?

Heston Blumenthal in the pic

Rufus_vel_Mortuus Posted on 19/11/2010 13:21
The end of the Red Faction?

It was the club's idea to situate RF in Block 53.

captain5 Posted on 19/11/2010 13:22
The end of the Red Faction?

It's just a shame we can't have one 'home end' where everyone sings whether that be the North, South East or wherever.

I'm usually standing in the South West Lower at the moment and you don't really get anything other than the odd song from either end.

smifter Posted on 19/11/2010 13:23
The end of the Red Faction?

Rob, clearly broken seats are evidence, you know what I am saying here though, this site is full of gossip about trouble after a game, I am surprised it hasn't been on here. Plenty of people on here sit in that corner.

joebonano Posted on 19/11/2010 13:24
The end of the Red Faction?

See that daft get Lamb has opened his big mouth again threatening to close a part of the ground.Wont the club be doing that themselves next year to cut costs.Theyve already cut the number of bars open.
Why doesnt Lamb disappear under a stone somewhere?

Midosparmo Posted on 19/11/2010 13:25
The end of the Red Faction?

Aparently the red faction have been sticking their buble gum on the seats. Its a bugger to get off.[V]

oooooo Posted on 19/11/2010 13:26
The end of the Red Faction?

You know, getting bigger crowds is important but when they are causing loads of trouble and smashing their own stadium up, you've got to ask if it is really worth it.

joebonano Posted on 19/11/2010 13:28
The end of the Red Faction?

Bigger crowds????.Are you taking the mickey?

ccole Posted on 19/11/2010 13:28
The end of the Red Faction?

"Sit back and support your club"

I would rather people stood up, shouted, added to colour and noise whilst supporting their club.

Norton_Boro86 Posted on 19/11/2010 13:31
The end of the Red Faction?

I know that a small number of original red faction 'members' have received or are in the process of receiving Bans from the stadium.

uberweiss Posted on 19/11/2010 13:34
The end of the Red Faction?

How childish

WorkingClassHero Posted on 19/11/2010 13:41
The end of the Red Faction?

Flags, noise and color is great.

The staffy on their site, smoke canisters, face scarves and calling themselves ultras is why redfaction havent won me over yet.

billdoor Posted on 19/11/2010 13:43
The end of the Red Faction?

It's also on the MFC website, including more quotes.

borobabe_dawn Posted on 19/11/2010 13:44
The end of the Red Faction?

The article says 34 seats damaged, it doesn't say in which area they are, it is implied they are in Block 53, but it doesn't actually state that. I sit in Block 53, and have never seen anyone breaking seats. Not everyone who sits in Block 53, is Red Faction. The trouble after the Palace match, Rf were still in the stadium singing, as several people have stated on this board in previous threads.

milf_hunter Posted on 19/11/2010 13:44
The end of the Red Faction?

"Flags, noise and color is great.

The staffy on their site, smoke canisters, face scarves and calling themselves ultras is why redfaction havent won me over yet."

I doubt they'll lose any sleep over you

STEEL_CITY_SMOGGY Posted on 19/11/2010 13:45
The end of the Red Faction?

That is a cracking photo on the red faction site. I must admit I did laugh at the Gazette's "red friction" comment.

The Gazette have made a big deal over nothing really, what violence has happened has been very minor. Small events happen like this at every club yet grouping a few minor events together gives the Gazette "story" to write about. The red faction seem to get tagged with an trouble that goes on, yet I think it is a mindless few that just go to the odd match and sit in the SE corner and use red faction as an excuse to start any trouble. It is too easy for everyone to just blame the red faction as one collective unit.

We are lucky that red faction are present at matches really otherwise there would be no chants from the home section at matches. It will be a shame if they close the SE corner but I am sure they can just all move to the NE no problem.

billdoor Posted on 19/11/2010 13:47
The end of the Red Faction?

It does suggest that the 34 seats are around the ground, not just in the S/E corner. Also seems to suggest that it's possible sanctions could be placed on the club rather than the club deciding to shut down part of the ground themselves.

WorkingClassHero Posted on 19/11/2010 13:47
The end of the Red Faction?

Not asking them to milf. Just where i think the support hasnt been 100% well received. Is it your staffy like?

MawTheMerrier Posted on 19/11/2010 13:48
The end of the Red Faction?

Club is run by control freaks who dont like RF because they dont comply with their Fascist-like orders.

As for Lamb, there are those on here who says he is only responsible for players contracts. How come he is "threatening" to shut part of the ground? Proves my point that as CEO he has overall control of everything.

I dont condone breaking seats, either.

skiprat Posted on 19/11/2010 13:50
The end of the Red Faction?

"As for Lamb, there are those on here who says he is only responsible for players contract"

I've never once read that on here.

MawTheMerrier Posted on 19/11/2010 13:52
The end of the Red Faction?

Skip everytime Lamb get earache for ticket prices for example, some joker comes on and says he just does contracts.

sasboro1 Posted on 19/11/2010 13:54
The end of the Red Faction?

"Club is run by control freaks who dont like RF because they dont comply with their Fascist-like orders."

you mean steve gibson?

Midosparmo Posted on 19/11/2010 13:55
The end of the Red Faction?

A lot of the current trouble with Boro stems from Lamb being made CEO when Gibbo got bored.
Before that, in essence, he was just a book keeper.

redpaul Posted on 19/11/2010 13:55
The end of the Red Faction?

"Flags, noise and color is great.

The staffy on their site, smoke canisters, face scarves and calling themselves ultras is why red faction havent won me over yet."

I would echo that totally [^]

WorkingClassHero Posted on 19/11/2010 13:56
The end of the Red Faction?

OK. It might not all be redfaction. The gazette source seemed pretty sure there's a bit of mischief they get up to tho.

The f@nnying about in seats before breaking them and encouraging ruckus with the club officials, by whoever, will cost the club coin. In extra cover and new seats. FACT.

Whichever fan or fans are doing that are not adding any benefit to my club.

smifter Posted on 19/11/2010 14:01
The end of the Red Faction?

I take some of this back, it is not just the gazette but also the club on bad form cos all the XXXXXXe is now spouted on their own website.
Apparently "the RF seem intent in defying the club in anyway they can" according to MFC website, what like making some noise! they want the RF when it suits them (for paying to get in and making noise when we score only)

Rob do they have proof this is the Red Faction? By this I mean the main founder members?

ThePrisoner Posted on 19/11/2010 14:03
The end of the Red Faction?

""Flags, noise and color is great.

The staffy on their site, smoke canisters, face scarves and calling themselves ultras is why red faction havent won me over yet."

I would echo that totally [^]"

I would echo that echo[:D]

RF site home page looks like something the EDL would come up with.

oooooo Posted on 19/11/2010 14:05
The end of the Red Faction?

"the RF seem intent in defying the club in anyway they can"

Er...they've openly stated their opposition to things such as standing which puts the club in a terrible position as it is not something they can even allow if they wanted to. They've said they do not want to buy club merchandise and encouraged others to do the same.

Can we stop this "they only want to sing" cr@p because there is clearly other issues that the club have with them.

levendale Posted on 19/11/2010 14:05
The end of the Red Faction?

So i take it we will be back to the ground being like a morgue tomorrow ?

flyermetothemoon Posted on 19/11/2010 14:05
The end of the Red Faction?

The club are doing everything in their power to create an atmosphere not seen in this world.

Its called space.

piquett Posted on 19/11/2010 14:10
The end of the Red Faction?

"So i take it we will be back to the ground being like a morgue tomorrow ?"

What do you mean 'back' it's been like it for a while, and other than success on the pitch RF will, and have not made a difference, unless you are stood/sat in the SE corner.

Billy_Ashcrofts_afro Posted on 19/11/2010 14:10
The end of the Red Faction?

I have personally witnessed members of the Red Faction tell Mowbray who to play next game - drop so and so they are XXXXXX, further effing and blinding, blah, blah.

They act like Lazio/Roma Ultras - what next storm Rockcliffe and threaten the players?

A decent percentage think they are innovative and clever, but they are just chavs who have jumped on a bandwagon that they think they can manipulate.

It is a shame that the superb vocal support shown by RF is being XXXXXXed away because they feel they are bigger than the club.


MawTheMerrier Posted on 19/11/2010 14:11
The end of the Red Faction?

Sas - dont be so silly. Not worthy of an answer - you know what i mean.

Fly- true the club is harrassing fans in an ugly manner at a time when they need all the fans they can get, especially noisey ones.


Just leave em alone FFS. They are only kids.

sasboro1 Posted on 19/11/2010 14:12
The end of the Red Faction?

sounds to me the red faction want to become the version of roma ultras but not the extreme stuff

Emmersons_BrazillianDong Posted on 19/11/2010 14:15
The end of the Red Faction?

"I dont condone breaking seats, either."

Glad you cleared that up Maw [:D][^]

juninhosdivingheader Posted on 19/11/2010 14:16
The end of the Red Faction?

from what I've read, Lamb isn't threatening to close down the south-east corner - he's saying it will be taken out of the club's control by the safety group etc.

Ultimately, I'd like to know what the Red Faction's stance is on damage and violence?

spider_man Posted on 19/11/2010 14:19
The end of the Red Faction?

Whether it was Red Faction or not isn't really the point. The club are asking for it to stop.
Now for me the reason Red Faction get so much stick is because they refuse to follow the safety rules of the stadium. They constantly stand up and they constantly bring in banners that they know are not permitted. Now it's all well and good having a go at the clubs stewards (and I'm sure it's got to such a battle now that the stewards are going over the top) but at the end of the day what should be clear is that the club is bound by the rules set by the council as per the license to operate the stadium. If these rules are constantly broken then the club can lose the license and so the club have a duty to uphold those rules.

Now regardless of that, if, for whatever reason a bad reputation follows you around then surely you keep your nose clean and ensure there is nothing to pick up on rather than insisting on antagonising the situation every game?

ThePrisoner Posted on 19/11/2010 14:22
The end of the Red Faction?

Check out RF founder's response on CoB.

Apparently it's class warfare[:D]

The comment about free speech holds no water I'm afraid. When on provate property you abide by the owner's rules or leave.


Link: RF response

WorkingClassHero Posted on 19/11/2010 14:28
The end of the Red Faction?


Whether it was Red Faction or not isn't really the point. The club are asking for it to stop.
Now for me the reason Red Faction get so much stick is because they refuse to follow the safety rules of the stadium. They constantly stand up and they constantly bring in banners that they know are not permitted. Now it's all well and good having a go at the clubs stewards (and I'm sure it's got to such a battle now that the stewards are going over the top) but at the end of the day what should be clear is that the club is bound by the rules set by the council as per the license to operate the stadium. If these rules are constantly broken then the club can lose the license and so the club have a duty to uphold those rules.

Now regardless of that, if, for whatever reason a bad reputation follows you around then surely you keep your nose clean and ensure there is nothing to pick up on rather than insisting on antagonising the situation every game? [^][^][^][^]

Bravo - THE END

levendale Posted on 19/11/2010 14:28
The end of the Red Faction?

Trouble and damage inside ground down to people in se corner end of , but do find it strange club are equating violence and arrests outside to the same people .
These quotes from un-named sources do seem to be scraping the barrel .

MightyDuck Posted on 19/11/2010 14:30
The end of the Red Faction?

would the club prefer:

a. 15k supporters and a great atmosphere.
b. 20k in complete silence?

you all know the answer which also leads into how much they care about having 'fans groups' and 'dialogue' with them.

they couldnt give 2 sh1ts about the 12th man or the RF

The_same_as_before Posted on 19/11/2010 14:32
The end of the Red Faction?

To make the ground really nice and tidy i think the RF should wear formal uniform and black shoes only, checked at the gate by the MFC SS for quality of black polish.


And of course no ties, H&S regulation 2.34 2010/11 section 5

Muttley Posted on 19/11/2010 14:33
The end of the Red Faction?

"but do find it strange club are equating violence and arrests outside to the same people"

Not really, I saw the build up to the trouble with Palace as I walked round the SE corner to head back towards St. Hildas. There were quite a few scrawny little fukkers hanging around with their scarves pulled up over their faces in much the same style as RF have on their website. As stated above I'm sure that most of the RF were still inside, but were they all? Was it just little dicks hanging off the coat-tails of the RF pseudo-rebellion?

I don't know, but I can see how the club looking at video evidence might make a putative link.

smifter Posted on 19/11/2010 14:34
The end of the Red Faction?

"Whether it was Red Faction or not isn't really the point"

Well actually that is where I think you are wrong. Is anyone on here agreeing with violent/with seat breaking? We are agree that those who are doing this should stop.
The point is the club via their own website/gazette have attacked the Red Faction by naming some of their members responsible. No one on here despite a large number of people who sit in that area have seen red faction do this, yet the club is saying it is their members. If they have the proof it is them, they must know who it is, then why not deal with those individuals rather than attack a certain fans group because of the ongoing RF v stewards in this corner at present

MightyDuck Posted on 19/11/2010 14:36
The end of the Red Faction?

do the RF actually have membership or any control of who sits in the SE corner?

No they dont, so anyone can sit there and cause trouble and the RF get the blame.

sasboro1 Posted on 19/11/2010 14:38
The end of the Red Faction?

i think a lot of people are missing some of the point of it all. any problems in that area then they safety committee get involved and can close the area down. the safety committee have no link in the club. so if it gets carried on it will get shut and everyone will blame the club. maybe the club are putting this in the paper so they can distance themselves from it all and be seen makign an effort to stop it. maybe the ref faction gang should do the same. they should contact the gazette

Fletcherr Posted on 19/11/2010 14:43
The end of the Red Faction?

just the press twisting, and for the club to say 7 of the 11 founding members have left is a lie because only 5 did. Think what you lot like but RF are not to blame for this hooliganism!

MawTheMerrier Posted on 19/11/2010 14:43
The end of the Red Faction?

their scarves pulled up over their faces
---------
More to this than it looks: if you innocently walk by this incident or stand looking at it the cops can photo you and ban you for "being in the vacinity of trouble". I know a guy who was banned like this.

Hence lads cover their faces when in the vicinity.

Or it could be to cover their spots [:D]

MawTheMerrier Posted on 19/11/2010 14:44
The end of the Red Faction?

Emmerson [:D]

I'm a peace loving guy.

piquett Posted on 19/11/2010 14:45
The end of the Red Faction?

100

ThePrisoner Posted on 19/11/2010 14:46
The end of the Red Faction?

"for the club to say 7 of the 11 founding members have left is a lie because only 5 did."

Still a lot though isn't it? Does suggest that RF has been hi-jacked and a more sinister agenda is being followed.

reckre Posted on 19/11/2010 14:50
The end of the Red Faction?

Red Faction [^][^][^][^][^]


Emmersons_BrazillianDong Posted on 19/11/2010 14:52
The end of the Red Faction?

[:D]

For the record Maw - I also do not condone the breaking of seats [^]

djlocky9999 Posted on 19/11/2010 15:00
The end of the Red Faction?

the club continually shoot themselves in the foot regarding the RF. idiots are running this club and should be held account.

juninhosdivingheader Posted on 19/11/2010 15:07
The end of the Red Faction?

djlockey, can you explain that comment?

are you happy with the violence and damage to the stadium?

are you happy for the RF to refuse to work with the club?

The RF bring a good atmosphere to games - but it seems to be they are the ones who keep shooting themselves, and the club, in the foot.

sasboro1 Posted on 19/11/2010 15:08
The end of the Red Faction?

"the club continually shoot themselves in the foot regarding the RF. idiots are running this club and should be held account."

[:o)]

oooooo Posted on 19/11/2010 15:10
The end of the Red Faction?

We got the same sort of moronic comment when people were getting in on kids tickets. Apparently that was the club's fault too.

djlocky9999 Posted on 19/11/2010 15:11
The end of the Red Faction?

violence? handbads after palace and a small bit of chew against leeds.

damage to stadium. looks like 2 seats in the photos. these seats have been there for 14 years. would general wear and tear have contributed to them breaking also.

RF refuse to work with the club. do they? do you know for certain. looks from the outside that the club are trying to harass them into quiting through letters and over the top stewarding.

[^]

Bandy Posted on 19/11/2010 15:17
The end of the Red Faction?

MFC ARE XXXXXX CLUELESS

spider_man Posted on 19/11/2010 15:17
The end of the Red Faction?

Interestingly I don't think the club are specifically pointing at Red Faction here. Nowhere does Keith Lamb himself actually say it is Red Faction and in fact he says
"However, we do hold out hope that we can work with supporter groups like Red Faction as we have done with other groups for the benefit of the club and all fans."

Now the articles do include quotes from people who have left Red Faction (and you can take their quotes either way) but from my perspective, I don't see the club saying it is RF at all. I just seen comments from other people insinuating this and as I stated before, RF are a very easy target because of the hassle they cause by not following the rules that the club are obliged to adhere to.

Nowhere do the club name any RF members as responsible, but with everything that happens at each home game (plus pics on the RF website etc) how can anybody NOT put the two of them together? That was my point - whether guilty or not, it is very easy to link RF to the trouble purely because of this.

What I will say though is that there is a slight difference between the article on the MFC website and the article in the Gazette - anyone else feel like the Gazette has spiced it up a touch to include more on Red Faction?

joebonano Posted on 19/11/2010 15:26
The end of the Red Faction?

I dont sit in that area but what really gets me is that for the first time in ages in the last home game there was a really good atmosphere in the stadium created by 15k fans.Mowbray had potentially brought back the club to the fans.The non stop singing from the SE corner was noticeable.
The timing of this is Fcuking atrocious as far as I'm concerned but why does it surprise you where Lamb is concerned.Any niff of positivity and he finds a way to put it out.

sasboro1 Posted on 19/11/2010 15:28
The end of the Red Faction?

why are you blaming lamb. did he rip the seats out or is the editor for the gazette and decides when to run a story?maybe on the eve of a game its to remind fans not to rip the seats out

smifter Posted on 19/11/2010 15:29
The end of the Red Faction?

Geoff Thomas from RF I feel has represented himself well in his comments in reponse to the club today. I didn't realise Geoff was a founder member of the RF and thought he was still doing the 12th man!
Geoff, if you are still a member on here, I know you have tried to relocate your area, have you tried contacting the club today yourselves? I do not know what your username is!

oooooo Posted on 19/11/2010 15:29
The end of the Red Faction?

"violence? handbads after palace and a small bit of chew against leeds."

And that's why I said creeping back in.

"damage to stadium. looks like 2 seats in the photos. these seats have been there for 14 years. would general wear and tear have contributed to them breaking also."

Ha ha, yeah cos seats just randomly detonate into loads of pieces on their own.

"RF refuse to work with the club. do they? do you know for certain."

When they take in banners after being asked to get the flame-proofed they aren't just being forgetful.

joebonano Posted on 19/11/2010 15:32
The end of the Red Faction?

The seasts are made of cheap,very cheap plastic.It's not impossible they broke rather than being ripped out.Pure over the top sensationalism by the Gazette about f*** all because Lamb is a bloody control freak that wont be happy until until he's emptied the ground altogether .

Muttley Posted on 19/11/2010 15:34
The end of the Red Faction?

"Lamb is a bloody control freak that wont be happy until until he's emptied the ground altogether ."

Oh dear.

I had forgotten, it's ALL Keith Lamb's fault...

Silly me...

MarlonD Posted on 19/11/2010 15:36
The end of the Red Faction?

Isn't Geoff Thomas the one who has been the instigator of the anti-club/commercialism stance of the RF and posted the 'ethos' of RF on here stating that fans shoulkd not wear replica tops ?


smifter Posted on 19/11/2010 15:37
The end of the Red Faction?

Not sure Marlon, I have seen Geoff Thomas wearing a replica sheet previously if it is who I think it is. Didn't he create the 12th man card displays?

joebonano Posted on 19/11/2010 15:38
The end of the Red Faction?

Hlaf a dozen meat heads act like idiots and look to pick a fight at the end of the game.Sounds like going into town on a Friday/Saturday night.Find the culprits and ban them but for goodness sake dont exaggerate the problem and suggest it's something more.
In any case the whole ground is covered by CCTV.If somebody was vandalising the ground wouldnt they be spotted?

fatharrywhite Posted on 19/11/2010 15:38
The end of the Red Faction?

"The seasts are made of cheap,very cheap plastic.It's not impossible they broke rather than being ripped out"

do you honestly believe that.....They must be unlucky that 34 just happened to have 'broke' in the past 3 games from wear and tear. I'd better be careful when i sit down on saturday just in case something happens to mine

MarlonD Posted on 19/11/2010 15:40
The end of the Red Faction?

I'm sure he posts as Boro_Tyke.

The club are stuck between a safety comittee and a few idiots who want to cause trouble.

There are no winners.

shaunb86 Posted on 19/11/2010 15:42
The end of the Red Faction?

can i just add a bit of balance to this debate. firstly, it doesnt state that all the seats broke are in the SEC. also the seats are bought in bulks of 6 or 8 (i cant remember which) so if 1 is damaged they must buy the full set to replace them. i can't see the point in smashing a seat and anyone who does so should be individually charged for its repair. the club should know who sits on that seat as they practically ask for a blood sample when you buy a ticket.

joescott25 Posted on 19/11/2010 15:45
The end of the Red Faction?

Millwall will kill them if they start anything tomorrow! See what the "ultras" are made of!

piquett Posted on 19/11/2010 15:46
The end of the Red Faction?

The original seats, or rather the injection moulding part of them, were produced by a company in Eaglescliffe, at the time they were also producing seats for the Ajax stadium, and few others in this country and Europe.

ThePrisoner Posted on 19/11/2010 15:47
The end of the Red Faction?

"i can't see the point in smashing a seat and anyone who does so should be individually charged for its repair. the club should know who sits on that seat as they practically ask for a blood sample when you buy a ticket."

Oh no. Now you've done it. There'll be a clause in next season's stadium conditions saying the person bearing the ticket for a seat is responsible for any damage incurred upon it.

MawTheMerrier Posted on 19/11/2010 15:47
The end of the Red Faction?

should be individually charged for its repair
---------
that'll be 50p then [smi]

shaunb86 Posted on 19/11/2010 15:58
The end of the Red Faction?

I think thats only fair. if your seat is damaged then that's your responsibility. don't then produce a front page article and use it as a stick to hit a group who have done nothing but improve the atmosphere since they started. as for this 12th man john geezer....bloodyhell he is so up the clubs backside it is untrue. talk about rent a quote. he and his mates are in the clubs back pocket so much it has hampered any progress they made in the first couple of years of the group.

RedcarTS10 Posted on 19/11/2010 16:00
The end of the Red Faction?

John Donovan = Judas.

piquett Posted on 19/11/2010 16:02
The end of the Red Faction?

Hats off to anyone slagging John Donovan who follows and supports MFC as much as he does.

juninhosdivingheader Posted on 19/11/2010 16:07
The end of the Red Faction?

Redcar - I would put it to you that YOU are the Judas, along with those who are destroying our spiritual home.

If you're not involved, then you are just as bad for defending hooliganism.

shaunb86 Posted on 19/11/2010 16:08
The end of the Red Faction?

there are plenty of lads who follow boro home and away just the way he does and i commend all of them for that. i would be doing the same if i had the finances. however, the way he is always there with a big cheesy qoute to back the club up gets right on my tits. you can follow boro and be an avid fan without having to brown nose keith lamb and co.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 19/11/2010 16:10
The end of the Red Faction?

How come Lamby always gets a mention but Gibbo doesn't?

Are you a brown noser?

shaunb86 Posted on 19/11/2010 16:13
The end of the Red Faction?

i think it is common knowledge that gibson doesn't have a say in the day to day running of the club. he probably doesn;t have a club who red faction, 12thman or john davidson or whatever he is called are. he will have much more important business matters to deal with.

dorivasmiddlefinger Posted on 19/11/2010 16:15
The end of the Red Faction?

John Donovan- a man who sings for 90 miniutes, Goes to nearly every boro game, owns a range of banners.

Bitter and twisted some folk on here.[V]

smifter Posted on 19/11/2010 16:16
The end of the Red Faction?

134 posts in and still no one is claiming to see anyone breaking any of the 34 seats, I just cannot get my head around it. The stewards are watching that area like hawks, I am wondering on which game these have been broken on?

djlocky9999 Posted on 19/11/2010 16:20
The end of the Red Faction?

if it was over 3 games then surely it would have been noticed when the stewards do the walkround after the match (i assume this still happens) or when little pickers are deployed along the rows.

RedcarTS10 Posted on 19/11/2010 16:20
The end of the Red Faction?

@ Juninho.

Show me where I am defending hooliganism.

I don`t condone it and am fully in support to banning said people who have caused trouble at Leeds and Palace and also those who damaged the seats.

Probably harsh on the Judas comment but I`ll put that down to a rush of anger at reading his quotes.

levendale Posted on 19/11/2010 16:21
The end of the Red Faction?

This could be a case for mulder and scully .

crouchy Posted on 19/11/2010 16:21
The end of the Red Faction?

joe scott read up about red faction before you make assumptions that we are hooligans, its not ****ing green street you know, as has been said a million times above all Red Faction members were inside singing for 20 minutes after the end of the match then.. we took the flags and banners down, when we came downstairs a bloke came by with a bloody nose, (he came from the palace end) through the boro bar doors.

Don't assume all ultras are mad skinheads after a fight yes some foreign ultras give it a bad name but none of the UK groups including Red Faction want anything to do with violence and are would like to get rid of all the tag alongs who give the group a bad name.

Also were all boro fans stop the petty arguments if you took the time to get to know us you would realise we all want the same thing.

Up the boro!

RedcarTS10 Posted on 19/11/2010 16:23
The end of the Red Faction?

RedcarTS10..a man who sings 90 minutes and travels 700 miles to see the boro play.

Bitter and twisted?......you bet.

otto62 Posted on 19/11/2010 16:24
The end of the Red Faction?

re: smifter wanting someone from RF to say 'Yeah I saw my mate do it'. Don't hold your breath.

sasboro1 Posted on 19/11/2010 16:30
The end of the Red Faction?

"
134 posts in and still no one is claiming to see anyone breaking any of the 34 seats, I just cannot get my head around it. The stewards are watching that area like hawks, I am wondering on which game these have been broken on?"

so how do you think it happened if no one saw it. when every one stands up its hard to see people breaking seat.


RedcarBlock53 Posted on 19/11/2010 16:33
The end of the Red Faction?

[rle] whats happening here then? Never seen any violence involving RF lads/lasses but hey ho I've only been going to the games with em for 3years, they all must be hooligans if the gazette says so.

smifter Posted on 19/11/2010 16:35
The end of the Red Faction?

Well there is plenty of people who sit there who are not red faction and I would imagine If 34 seats were broken during a game other fans would see this, stewards are regularly stood amongst them and police cameras were on that section all of the leeds games. Fair enough I can see maybe 1-8 seats getting broken without witnesses but 34!

Big_Shot Posted on 19/11/2010 16:38
The end of the Red Faction?

I don't think people can quite get their head around the fact that the vast majority of Boro fans DON'T use this messageboard. So just because nobody ON HERE has so far claimed to have witnessed the seats being broken it doesn't mean it never happened. There's pictures of broken seats and the club claim 34 were damaged, which is good enough for most people.

A steward I know was punched and spat on by Boro fans in that section in the last home game. I believe him despite not seeing the spit because he had wiped it off.

crouchy Posted on 19/11/2010 16:42
The end of the Red Faction?

Quote from the mfc site smifter :)

"Already this season club coffers have been hit by large repair bills after home fans turned on their own stadium, with vandalism accounting for 34 seats in home stands and damage done in concourse are."

34 seats in HOME STANDS not just South east corner if they were all in the SEC it would say so theres obviously more seats broke elsewhere, against Leeds there was loads of leeds fans in the home end could have been them because I saw loads of leeds lads get shot out after a scuffle with boro fans.

UTB!

r00fie Posted on 19/11/2010 16:46
The end of the Red Faction?

Who is "Dave Robson" - reporter for the Evening Gazette. Anyone got in touch with him. In his first few lines he nails Red Faction as vandals. Who is he?Has he contacted RedcarBlock53 or anyone else?

oooooo Posted on 19/11/2010 16:47
The end of the Red Faction?

"I don't think people can quite get their head around the fact that the vast majority of Boro fans DON'T use this messageboard."

That should be in big letters on every single page/thread. Very good shout.

r00fie Posted on 19/11/2010 16:49
The end of the Red Faction?

Take a tip:

Move.

Afonso Posted on 19/11/2010 16:53
The end of the Red Faction?

As HArry Hill would say "FIGHT"

oooooo Posted on 19/11/2010 16:55
The end of the Red Faction?

Roofie, I think you need to go back and read what he actually said:

"BORO today issued a plea to some fans to behave after revealing a rise in trouble and vandalism at the Riverside.

With the appeal comes shocking evidence of how some supporters are putting the boot into their own club by vandalising the stadium and trying to attack opposing fans.

And the club warns that if things don’t improve, it may have to close the south-east corner - base of the Red Faction fans’ group and where much of the trouble seems to stem from."

Bobby_Braithwaite Posted on 19/11/2010 16:56
The end of the Red Faction?

RF ""The club do not seem to be interested in managing the supporters".

Err, isn't the usual complaint from RF that they don't want to be managed?

BurneoFunction Posted on 19/11/2010 16:56
The end of the Red Faction?

Heres hoping RF bite off more than they can chew tomorrow and get a good slap around from the away fans. If there was a documentary made about teesside id want to make sure all of RF are kept locked away =P

This 'we didnt do anything' is childish too, there was no problems in that corner before RF moved there so its just a coincidence that when you shove all the runts together that people get hurt and vandalism occurs.

Im all for the atmosphere but its clear some of RF are there to trouble cause and ruin other fans experience of match days. I'd be all for MFC removing people from that block until things quiten over and the 'leader' of RF (bless him) can sit down and make some promises. Someone has to be held responsible so why not start there =]

Rant over

Fletcherr Posted on 19/11/2010 16:58
The end of the Red Faction?

has there been trouble in the past 3 years we have been there?

redpaul Posted on 19/11/2010 17:04
The end of the Red Faction?

No you have all sat down like good little angels, and behaved impeccably [:D]

r00fie Posted on 19/11/2010 17:06
The end of the Red Faction?

What is vandalism - spending thousands a week on yellow high vis jackets whilst charging fans over - inflated prices,and having to repair a few plastic seats.

crouchy Posted on 19/11/2010 17:10
The end of the Red Faction?

Red Faction WERE NOT INVOLVED.

People get the wrong idea about us we are a no violence ultras group. If we attract a little danny dyer wannabes to the SEC we cant help that, we should not be punished by some little scroats damaging our reputation, I also hope those causing the trouble get what they deserve they are not part of RF never have been and never will be.

Fans not hooligans

Red_Matter Posted on 19/11/2010 18:29
The end of the Red Faction?

"34 seats in HOME STANDS not just South east corner if they were all in the SEC it would say so theres obviously more seats broke elsewhere, against Leeds there was loads of leeds fans in the home end could have been them because I saw loads of leeds lads get shot out after a scuffle with boro fans."

At last, the penny has dropped! Leeds fans were scattered throughout the Riverside and I would stake my life on it that most of the damage to these seats were caused by so-called fans from Leeds hell bent on destruction.

It is an absolute disgrace and very ironic that through MFC's incompetence in ensuring tickets were NOT made available to these thugs and by NOT stewarding them more robustly that the club have chosen instead to blame its own supporters in order to stave off this serious breach of safety and criminal damage.

A lot of folks were saying at the time that there would be a backlash with the Leeds game and this is how it has manifested itself. Middlesbrough Football Club is in denial and is looking for scapegoats to deflect criticism. Simply appalling.

CaramelHobNob Posted on 19/11/2010 18:30
The end of the Red Faction?

Ultra's Red Faction Will Never Be Defeated.

Emmersons_BrazillianDong Posted on 19/11/2010 18:41
The end of the Red Faction?

Crouchy - Are you a painter & decorator?

smifter Posted on 19/11/2010 18:47
The end of the Red Faction?

Ok I take on board peoples comments that they don't feel this board covers enough proportion of people for my argument to stand.

However:
What I have established is:
34 seats have been broken throughout the whole home end (some of people on here have mentioned Leeds fans, maybe?)
A door that wasnt supervised (the only door separating 2 sets of fans) at the Leeds game was kicked open and things thrown. My opinion is that it was XXXXXX all to do with RF and more to do with anyone who fancied it walking up to the door separating which happens to be the SE corner and kicking it open.
Also an incident of what no more than 10 people have a small scrap at the last game? Again no proof of RF being involved, many belief they were still in the stadium at a game that wasn't policed.

They have used some incidents of vandalism and hooliganism in the same article as covering the issues they have with RF, which is not right and fair on RF

For the person whos mate was assaulted and spat on, I hope they are ok, hopefully the person responsible will be banned, they surely know who is responsible for that.


rob_fmttm Posted on 19/11/2010 18:48
The end of the Red Faction?

In my opinion today's news is a big dose of reality and has to bring everyone to their senses here. If this was Ayresome Park and there had been trouble every week in the Clive Road end the police would have closed it down. And if there had been a Red Faction in those days the football club would have probably banned them without trial if they thought they might in anyway be implicated.

Times have moved on thankfully and this dose of reality has to be used as an opportunity for everyone to get round a table and start working together. No set of supporters are better or more deserving than others, not if they shout more, stand more, or go to more games. We are all in this together and we need to pull together. At Ayresome Park or even in the early days of the Riverside this Gazette front page would have meant a massive rift between some supporters and club. Notice Neil Bausor on BBC Tees today being very careful not blame RF he wanted to separate out those that smash up the ground and attack other fans. They are not any Boro faction except thugs and need to grow up or go away from Riverside for good.

It's time for peace to break out. We are potentially at the start of something great here, the Mowbray era and for these thugs to hijack that and steal the front page of the Gazette is appalling. Red Faction has to immediately distance themselves from these non-fans and pull together with the rest of us to support Mogga's revival.

The alternative is we unravel and completely fail in our mission.

TenPints Posted on 19/11/2010 18:56
The end of the Red Faction?

Stick to your guns Red Faction , i remember many moons ago at Ayresome . People questioned the loyalty of the 'Young Joeys 'in the Clive Road upper ...... the rest is history .

You'll get no support of this board . It's full of middle aged men , who like to watch the match in silence so they can answer the phone should her in doors call them for a lift home from the town .

I see Nelsons back on the scene . Hows the other half doing ?

Good Luck RF , Don't let the bar-stewards grind you down in your attempt to wake the Riverside Up .

twoshots Posted on 19/11/2010 18:59
The end of the Red Faction?



Just a thought.

The photo of the broken seats linked on the OP doesn't seem right to me. The implication is this is the SEC but you can see the corner behind the bloke - this long line of seats is more likely the South Stand and this would then be damage caused by visiting fans.

rob_fmttm Posted on 19/11/2010 19:03
The end of the Red Faction?

I have been told categorically that the broken seats were in the south east corner. There was also damage to the back of the stand.

To the poster before - many of us middle aged blokes go home and away and sing and chant every game.

It isn't a stitch up it is a wake up call. We all want a full and bouncing stadium. No set of fans are worth more than others. Lets work together. Come on Boro.


Big_Shot Posted on 19/11/2010 19:05
The end of the Red Faction?

Why would he know who is responsible? What he said was he was punched in the back of the head and when he took his coat off there was spit all down the back of it. It was done by Boro fan(s) in the SE corner against Palace.

The point I was getting at, was just because nobody has posted on here claiming to have witnessed it, it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Much like the seats getting vandalised. Which you seemed to not accept as truthful because nobody posted about it on here.

JimmyFloydPiggybank Posted on 19/11/2010 19:06
The end of the Red Faction?

Disagree, think the rf make the match day experience better constant chanting, colour support, the club should be paying them I say.

CCYV should be able to pick out vandals.

Keith Lamb what a joke, the Gazette, Dave Robson who done the article for the Gazette a yes man.

Without the rf we would be done to 10k.


Ayresome_angel85 Posted on 19/11/2010 19:16
The end of the Red Faction?

To be fair, I think red faction started off as supporters trying to bring some atmosphere back to the riverside, however this support had maybe attracted a minority who want to be a part of the atmosphere but are also up to causing trouble, therefore tarring the red faction group with the same brush. I think theres nothing wrong with the club asking the fans to calm it a bit. There are not asking them to not sing but theres no place for violence and breaking of rules at football games. Come on, people have a job to do in maintaining crowd safety, they are not gonna stand by and let it happen without a mention.

changingman Posted on 19/11/2010 19:23
The end of the Red Faction?

Not been to many this season but what alarmed me last season was the amount of "police free" games or games where there were not many coppers present.

I believe this has led to the current spot of bother. If people start to realize that, there will inevitably be trouble. 15,000 and not one person wants kick off? Unlikely.

Smogariffic_MFC Posted on 19/11/2010 20:57
The end of the Red Faction?

without the RF we would be down to 10,000?? yeh because theres 5000+ RF in the SE corner isnt there?!?!?!

comejoiners Posted on 19/11/2010 21:37
The end of the Red Faction?

I was stood having a pint at the Leeds match at half time and as soon asit kicked off in the concourse both sets of steps leading to where RF sit where full of people running down to the concourse and towards the doors that were kicked in
i amnot saying these peoplr are RF but from a clubs point of view they came from that corner
the same happened just before half time against palace cos of the banner
again the people were from that corner
so who can the club blame?

could_it_be Posted on 19/11/2010 21:45
The end of the Red Faction?

muttley

is it not time for the club to get a grip and talk to red faction and re-engage with the fans in a broader sense

i really think the club needs the fans rather than vice versa at the moment

i don't normally slag lmab off and tbh i haven't really read the full story but if KL is singling out Rf without any proper evidence then he should just F.O

redpaul Posted on 19/11/2010 21:51
The end of the Red Faction?

Could_it_be - Go and read the report and the piece on Boro's website

Then you might want to edit your comment [^]

Muttley Posted on 19/11/2010 21:54
The end of the Red Faction?

Thank you RP.

CIB, you may not automatically slam the Lamb but there are plenty on here who do. Odd thing is when they are challenged the best they do is mutter about three points and perhaps Ziege's contract! Not much really in fifteen-ish years is it?

RedcarTS10 Posted on 19/11/2010 21:55
The end of the Red Faction?

It amazes me that a week ago RF where hailed as great for creating the banner that remembered our war dead and now they are all hooligans that trash their own stadium.

And in answer to the topic question.........NO.

PRIORYMAN Posted on 19/11/2010 23:48
The end of the Red Faction?

The RF have brought genuine support, colour and passion to The Riverside and away matches and long may it continue.

If there is EVIDENCE to identify anyone who is guilty of criminal damage or affray then this will doubtless be dealt with through the normal judicial process. Until that happens it is both unfair and misleading to point the finger at anyone ...... if it happens at all.


mowbrays_number_4 Posted on 19/11/2010 23:55
The end of the Red Faction?

Hello, Judas rent a quote Davison here.

i just thought i'd give some people a bit of background information. Before the Twe12th Man was formed i had many dealings with the club regarding fan issues. During this time i built up a working relationship based on trust. A lot of time was spent getting the surfer agreed to, its use and its storage. Compromise from both the club and fans had to be reached which it eventually was and its use became a regular focal point on matchdays.
So much so that when i asked the club to sort out if it could be used at Eindhoven they did all the work with UEFA and the venue and then offered to transport it to and from Holland free of charge so that it could be used at the final. They didn't have to do this, they could have simply said 'here's a contact go sort it out' and left everything to the fans to do.
The same level of co-operation has existed between the club and the Twe12th Man since it started. I don't think that everything that the club does is correct and i let them know regularly.
If having trust and being able to negotiate and compromise equals being in the clubs pocket, as some people regularly claim, then i suppose we are guilty as charged.

joescott25 Posted on 20/11/2010 00:07
The end of the Red Faction?

someone from red faction came on and gave us the facts. He said they only have like 12 "core" members, and another 20 odd "sheep" members.
I reckon they should all wear special shiny badges like the school kids so they don't get tarred with the same brush as all the "hooligans". They are just misunderstood Italian ultras!

RedcarBlock53 Posted on 20/11/2010 00:13
The end of the Red Faction?

There's enough CCTV at the riverside to find those resposible for vandalism or starting chew. The club clearly has an agenda against the RF. Anyone think (and this isn't a dig) that the club would blame the twe12th man if there was damage caused by people in the north stand? Would they b0ll0cks. I go to the games to support my team not cause aggro nor should I be expected to police the corner I sit in from young chavvy kids, that's what the club pay those luminous fellas to do.

Boro_Dave91 Posted on 20/11/2010 00:16
The end of the Red Faction?

They wouldn't blame the 12th man because they work with the club, the complete opposite of what RF do, so making a comment like that just makes you a [:o)]

RedcarBlock53 Posted on 20/11/2010 00:27
The end of the Red Faction?

It was merely an example boy. Just because the RF doesn't want to hold hands with MFC doesn't instantly make us hooligans or vandals. We'll carry on supporting our team regardless.

Up The Boro

Boro_Dave91 Posted on 20/11/2010 00:30
The end of the Red Faction?

It's what attracts the hooligans though, which is why RF are blamed.

DeepInMyHeart Posted on 20/11/2010 00:33
The end of the Red Faction?

Let's stop squabbling between ourselves and stick together. There's only one story here... Keith Lamb is a control freak.

We are not customers, we are FANS. It's not his club, it's ours.

First we get letters saying we're too noisy. Then we have to sit down (though no one is behind us). Now we can only have banners if he personally approves them.

Do you think he'll approve the "KEITH LAMB OUT" banner I'm currently making? It's fireproof, honest. Certificate and everything.

otto62 Posted on 20/11/2010 00:36
The end of the Red Faction?

Read carefully. The club are not blaming RF. They are just saying there are some idiots in the SE corner (where RF are located) who are spoiling it for everyone else.

The leaders of RF should be on here distancing themselves from all the trouble. They should also be sitting down with the club right now and asking how they can help get rid of the idiots.

RedcarBlock53 Posted on 20/11/2010 00:38
The end of the Red Faction?

I'm not certain the frontline are attracted by flags, banners and drums but it's an amusing theory. I reckon where we are situated doesn't help but as far as I'm aware the club were all for the idea. The whole club agenda against the RF seems to be them trying to control fans free speech rather than any major safety concern. Implying that a few dozen damaged seats is gonna effect the transfer kitty is laughable.

Boro_Dave91 Posted on 20/11/2010 00:38
The end of the Red Faction?

Keith Lamb is a control freak for having to close the SE corner if these things keep happening? Righto...

oooooo Posted on 20/11/2010 00:47
The end of the Red Faction?

"Hello, Judas rent a quote Davison here.

i just thought i'd give some people a bit of background information. Before the Twe12th Man was formed i had many dealings with the club regarding fan issues. During this time i built up a working relationship based on trust. A lot of time was spent getting the surfer agreed to, its use and its storage. Compromise from both the club and fans had to be reached which it eventually was and its use became a regular focal point on matchdays.
So much so that when i asked the club to sort out if it could be used at Eindhoven they did all the work with UEFA and the venue and then offered to transport it to and from Holland free of charge so that it could be used at the final. They didn't have to do this, they could have simply said 'here's a contact go sort it out' and left everything to the fans to do.
The same level of co-operation has existed between the club and the Twe12th Man since it started. I don't think that everything that the club does is correct and i let them know regularly.
If having trust and being able to negotiate and compromise equals being in the clubs pocket, as some people regularly claim, then i suppose we are guilty as charged."

Well said, John. Ignore the tosh on here, most people don't post here at all.

BerwickHillsBopper Posted on 20/11/2010 01:01
The end of the Red Faction?

2 Things-

I have to question the amount of alleged broken and smashed up seats. I have been at matches were seats have been broken/snapped and it takes quite a bit of effort to do so to a modern plastic stadium seat. The noise is also very loud, even in the midst of crowd noise, the snap and cracks can be heard above most if not all. Anybody who was at the 8-1 Man City game will agree. So i question as to why MFC claim this sort of damage has taken place, i heard no noise that sounded like seats breaking nor did i see any influx of stewards despatched to prevent damage which im sure they would of been if such events were taking place during the match.

2) I question why Keith lamb/MFc took it upon themsleves to use their connections with the local media ie the gazette to slap the story on the FRONT PAGE? If Lamb/MFc has no issue with the RF/fans then seems an extrodinary length to go to in order to comunicate with the alleged trouble causers?

Sit down. Shut up. Give us your money. Your consumers, not fans. Is the message im taking. And the no1 targets are of course the RF.

Not that im totally in support of the RF, at away games they seem intent on creating their own atmosphere away from the rest of us, which is fair enough when its quiet but when the place is chanting together, they persist in singing their own songs, which isolates them from us i suppose. Point is if you dont think MFC are against them and like minded fans then give your head a shake.

Oh and shock of all shocks - "voice of the fans" Rob Nicholls in "toe the offical club line" shocker.....

newyddion Posted on 20/11/2010 01:11
The end of the Red Faction?

Didn't any stewards notice two seats being destroyed?

SplendidStuff Posted on 20/11/2010 01:19
The end of the Red Faction?

' Oh and shock of all shocks - "voice of the fans" Rob Nicholls in "toe the offical club line" shocker..... '

Tow the line you dozy fcukingXXXXXX smoker.

BerwickHillsBopper Posted on 20/11/2010 01:34
The end of the Red Faction?

Actually its TOE the line you slack jawed, 12 fingered, sock tucking mutant.

Thanks for the contribution.

Life 1-0 You.

degsyspesh Posted on 20/11/2010 01:36
The end of the Red Faction?

"They wouldn't blame the 12th man because they work with the club, the complete opposite of what RF do...."

And that is the root of the problem.

If RF want to work against the club what does it expect the club to do? Like has been said, if those at the top of RF had their brains in gear they would have distanced themselves from the trouble etc and would work with the club to stop such things happening again.

That said, I find the whole smashed chair thing hard to believe for many reasons - firstly they would have it all on CCTV, second I haven't heard a single fan say that they have even seen one seat get broken - and people nearby would know if that happened. Thirdly, given the number of stewards in that area I can't see how it would ever of happened without it turning into a major incident.

Personally, I like what RF started out trying to do - the riverside had turned into an insipid morgue but the whole "Ultra" thing seems to have either by accident of design attracted the hoolie element and unless RF work with the club to sort things out there is only going to be one winner


VonBrock Posted on 20/11/2010 01:46
The end of the Red Faction?

[^][^][^] support for red faction. dont let the boring XXXXXXs grind you down.[^]

Boro_Dave91 Posted on 20/11/2010 02:06
The end of the Red Faction?

"I question why Keith lamb/MFc took it upon themsleves to use their connections with the local media ie the gazette to slap the story on the FRONT PAGE? If Lamb/MFc has no issue with the RF/fans then seems an extrodinary length to go to in order to comunicate with the alleged trouble causers?"

It was on the front page so as many people as possible would see it, I thought that would of been obvious to everyone. It has nothing to do with having an issue with RF but has everything to do with telling everybody that if the things that have happened against Leeds and Crystal Palace continue then the corner will be closed and the club will most likely have no say in that.

Emmersons_BrazillianDong Posted on 20/11/2010 02:16
The end of the Red Faction?

[:D][:D][:D]

Thouroughly enjoyed reading this so far. Grown men crying at each other FFS

borobabe_dawn Posted on 20/11/2010 04:41
The end of the Red Faction?

spot the deliberate mistake. I thought rent-a-quote judas was called John Donovan,so why is he calling himself John Davison,just a thought. Odd!

mowbrays_number_4 Posted on 20/11/2010 07:04
The end of the Red Faction?

Maybe because shaunb used that name earlier.

a bit of humour on my part.

Whoosh.....

ray192 Posted on 20/11/2010 07:05
The end of the Red Faction?

[:D]

Morning mate,hows things ? [^]

sixtyniner69 Posted on 20/11/2010 08:28
The end of the Red Faction?

they need to use masked members of 12th man to point out the RF trouble makers in an anti mau-mau style operation

RedcarBlock53 Posted on 20/11/2010 08:31
The end of the Red Faction?

The 'ex-member' has already given the club details on 'ringleaders'. Dunno what im gonna do with me Saturday afternoons once im banned!?

sixtyniner69 Posted on 20/11/2010 08:42
The end of the Red Faction?

were you a trouble maker

would maske ufc not allow you in their terrace

RedcarBlock53 Posted on 20/11/2010 08:44
The end of the Red Faction?

I start the odd chant if thats what you mean. Synners and Boro Futsal have both offered to accomodate us but were Boro fans, why should we have to go support another team? It wouldnt be right.

Jerry_Brown Posted on 20/11/2010 08:55
The end of the Red Faction?

If you are going to blame anyone, blame Liverpool, they started this whole H&S thing.

ray192 Posted on 20/11/2010 08:58
The end of the Red Faction?

Either start talking to the club or stop being drama queens FFS [^].

This is not having a go at all !! put your case forward to the club and distance yourselfs from what appears to be a few mindless trouble makers [B)].

BTW against Palace i thought you were great plenty of noise and very colourful [ref] keep up the good work [^].

North Stand S/C holder [^]
Ray

Derbyshire Reds

UTB [^][ref]

Stubbsy Posted on 20/11/2010 10:33
The end of the Red Faction?

smifter Posted on 19/11/2010 12:05
The end of the Red Faction? Edited On: 19/11/2010 12:05
Email Message To A Friend | Reply To Message

off the map on complete wind up

Emnes completely agree, complete bad form from the gazette. I have never seen any violence whatsoever whilst sitting up there, I find it a positive area of the stadium to sit in. Me, my partner and Dad enjoying sitting up that end of the stadium (apart from the stewards) due to positive support and buzz up there. I find other areas have the stadium (not all) much more "negative" to sit amongst.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
From a bloke who's never seen any trouble in his own village, even after a murder in a pub car park, several riots in the same pub and even last week, somebody pulling a gun on somebody in he same pub.

Do you walk around with your eyes closed?


rumrunner Posted on 20/11/2010 10:42
The end of the Red Faction?

Smifter aint a bloke [:D]

Stubbsy Posted on 20/11/2010 10:43
The end of the Red Faction?

oh right, looks like i have the wrong person......apologies smifter.

smifter Posted on 20/11/2010 10:48
The end of the Red Faction?

First of all I'm not a bloke and of course I've seen trouble where I live I've said it lots of times, it's mindless to single out single places, when similar things happen everywhere!

So all 34 seats were broken in one area and no stewards intervened or witnessed this despite their job watching the fans, if I was the club if be wondering why I paid their wages

smifter Posted on 20/11/2010 10:50
The end of the Red Faction?

No right person, just clearly aren't as observant as they think they are

MawTheMerrier Posted on 20/11/2010 11:03
The end of the Red Faction?

Any thought been given to these seat being unintentionally broken?

These are plastic seats, 15 years old and have been exposed to frost. Plastic does get brittle when exposed to sub zero temperatures.

Then some young lads climbs on them to get out at half time and bang, they snap.

Just a theory.

r00fie Posted on 20/11/2010 11:12
The end of the Red Faction?

Watch the prats in Yellow jackets wade in today.Theres other ways of skinning a cat[;)]

Big_Shot Posted on 20/11/2010 11:28
The end of the Red Faction?

A few times I've saw Boro fans breaking multiple seats at away games, normally at the end of the game. Nothing happened to them. So just because stewards are there it doesn't mean that they can see everything that goes on, especially not at the end of the game when crowds of people are leaving.

The steward I know who was punched and spat on by Boro fans the other week didn't see who did it despite them being that close. It doesn't mean it didn't happen.

lockey Posted on 20/11/2010 11:32
The end of the Red Faction?

First time i had heard about that,Punched and spat at, were abouts?

Big_Shot Posted on 20/11/2010 11:38
The end of the Red Faction?

SE corner. I know the steward who it happened to but never felt the need to bring it up. I don't see it as that big a deal really, you always get one or two idiots. But I just found it odd how naive some people can be when reading this thread yesterday.

MawTheMerrier Posted on 20/11/2010 11:49
The end of the Red Faction?

You have to ask what was the steward doing in there anyway? If they left those lads alone there wouldnt be any trouble.

I sit thereabouts and rarely seen anything which would warrant security personnel wading into fans. Stewards / police provke trouble imo.

I do not condone violence though, nor the breaking of any innocent plastic seats. [:D]

Big_Shot Posted on 20/11/2010 11:51
The end of the Red Faction?

What steward? Where?

r00fie Posted on 20/11/2010 11:55
The end of the Red Faction?

Ive got some piccis of the Supervisor of block 53 at the Portsmouth game. Despite the small "crowd" in the corner, he sent a 50 year old steward to stand amongst a group of teenagers, who were no trouble to nobody.Its like the coppers frisking everybody and getting you to empty your pockets as you go into ASDA. It looked deliberate harrasment to me and a few others around me. I wish the parents of those teenage kids would turn up alongside those sons and daughters and see what response they get then.

MawTheMerrier Posted on 20/11/2010 13:08
The end of the Red Faction?

Any psychology students on here? I am sure there is some sort of 'Control Psychosis' going on here. Jobsworths who get off telling people what to do and when to do it.

The stewards carry out the orders of those control freaks higher up the food chain.

Do this - dont do that. VVankers.

Even the music is used to control fans. Pig bag comes on and the North Korean like fans respond to their masters tune. When we score the control freaks play music which "approves" the fans to make a noise. After this Security Personnel tell everyone to sit down and shut up again.

Its all about control.

smifter Posted on 20/11/2010 18:08
The end of the Red Faction?

Roofie agreed, there is a female supervisor in the SE corner who just harrasses the younger fans, never bothers with anyone over 18 as that would be difficult for her, just sticks to the young kids who are doing nothing wrong at all!! These are our fans of the future, we need to ensure they are having a good time!

sasboro1 Posted on 20/11/2010 19:16
The end of the Red Faction?

if smashing up seats is classed as a good time then they arnt welcome.

RedcarBlock53 Posted on 20/11/2010 19:20
The end of the Red Faction?

They weren't smashing seats you zombie.

Fletch Posted on 21/11/2010 11:10
The end of the Red Faction?

That MN4 is a Judas, he waited until I was asleep (I'd just finished a night shift before over 5 hours of coach travel) in a restaurant in Norwich and then he posed for photographs with me... [:(!]

As for the trouble connected with the RF I blame one of the rouge break away elements, chief antagonists and one of RF's founder members, this Lockey character... [B)]

Bobby_Braithwaite Posted on 22/11/2010 13:26
The end of the Red Faction?

"Let's stop squabbling between ourselves and stick together."

Isn't it Red Fraction that broke away from the majority?

Did they have a friendly chat with the boys from Millwall after the game?