permalink for this thread : http://search.catflaporama.com/post/browse/2253665
Boromart Posted on 09/11/2010 13:06
Boyd's days are numbered

Quote from Mogga: "I hope to be able to give him (Boyd) the right support so he can do that (score goals) here. But until we totally dominate football matches he has to be part of the team that works extremely hard.”

We are a million miles away from 'totally dominating games', Boyd is going to be benched for some time.

It took Mogga just 2 games to recognise this, that is a good sign!

Bandy Posted on 09/11/2010 13:26
Boyd's days are numbered

Kidology

sasboro1 Posted on 09/11/2010 13:29
Boyd's days are numbered

probably seen how much he is on and needs to offload a few players to bring in some of his own players. probably could bring in 3 decent loan signings if you get someone like boyd off the wage bill

gravyboat Posted on 09/11/2010 13:29
Boyd's days are numbered

Saw this, this-morning. Seems Mogga is in agreement with those of us who don't think we're in a position to accommodate a player who isnt prepared to graft for a struggling team.

Libbins Posted on 09/11/2010 13:30
Boyd's days are numbered

Top scorer. Add more creativity to the team so he gets chances every week and we will reap the rewards.

gravyboat Posted on 09/11/2010 13:31
Boyd's days are numbered

Bandy,

Why is he having to use kidology?

gravyboat Posted on 09/11/2010 13:31
Boyd's days are numbered

What about whilst we don't have the creativity?

fuchs Posted on 09/11/2010 13:33
Boyd's days are numbered

Lazy strikers don't work in the Championship.

Defenders are tougher and fitter than in the SPL and I totally agree with Mogga. If Boyd isn't prepared to put a shift in, he is no good to us.

Lita did more in his 1st 5 minutes than Boyd had done in the whole 1st half on Saturday.

We need another striker and I think Mogga will get one soon.

[^]

sasboro1 Posted on 09/11/2010 13:33
Boyd's days are numbered

"
Top scorer. Add more creativity to the team so he gets chances every week and we will reap the rewards."

yeah but the problem is we are probably skint and he needs to sell to get some creativity in. i reckon the wage bill wont be going up while we are in this league. he is goign to look at the top earners and see if we are getting value out of them.its upto boyd to put more effort in otherwise he could be one of theose going in january. the 2 halves against palace would have given mogga a lot to think about

Bandy Posted on 09/11/2010 13:34
Boyd's days are numbered

Cos no manager whould tell the general public what he thought of him. it's a gee up. if he starts tonight he will score

bear66 Posted on 09/11/2010 13:41
Boyd's days are numbered

Amazing it's only taken two games but it's obvious he's not a Championship type player. If the gee-up works great . . . if it doesn't and Boyd is sidelined then I guess those on here who staked their 'reputations' that the top scoring Scottish Premiership player is the beez kneez will be shouting for Mogga's head

sitheman Posted on 09/11/2010 13:43
Boyd's days are numbered

I really like Boyd and think without him we will not score as many, simples.

ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 09/11/2010 13:56
Boyd's days are numbered

If Boyd could put himself about a bit more, he'd be a much better player. Forwards like Drogba, Rooney, Shearer, and from when I was a lad, Rush and Keegan all had very good workrates asides from being top quality players.

If you could combine Lita's workrate with Boyd's poaching instinct and add to that Macdonald's quality and ability to link up play, you'd have one helluva player. It wouldn't surprise me if at least two of them were gone by next summer.

None of them are particularly great target men. Lita tries to be a target man and generally does well, but he's not the tallest of blokes. Boyd is 6 foot plus, but jumps 5'9". Just before half-time on Saturday, he watched a cross from the right sail past him when a better player would have made summat of it.

I'd like to see us try and get at least a couple of the following:

Jason Roberts
James Vaughan
Danny Graham
Matt Derbyshire
Ishmael Miller
Luke Moore
David Healy

Not sure how realistic those players are, but I'd like to think we could match their wages and guarantee them first team football. Add them to Franks, Williams, Emnes and one from Lita, Boyd and McDonald and we'd have some decent options up front.

Boromart Posted on 09/11/2010 13:56
Boyd's days are numbered

"Top scorer."
If he had scored 8 or 9 goals then you might have a point, he hasn't he has got 4.

Kink has a far better goals ratio for us, I would prefer to play him off a lone striker he would score more than that dire scottish lump and he would run around a bit and win freekicks and pull defenders out of position.

face it guys Boyd is a dud. We don't have the personnel to dominate games for him to score. So he will be a bench player, bar injuries.

If we play well he probably won't get back in, if we fail to go up (almost certain) then his wages will be an issue and we will look to move him on. I don't think he is Mogga type of player, Mogga likes footballers and a mobile target man up front.

Bandy Posted on 09/11/2010 14:09
Boyd's days are numbered

We will see then

Boromart Posted on 09/11/2010 14:14
Boyd's days are numbered

Bandy have you changed your opinion that 'Kink won't score more than 3 goals, he is too leightweight'?

bear66 Posted on 09/11/2010 14:16
Boyd's days are numbered

Was the last one an own-goal?

The_same_as_before Posted on 09/11/2010 14:18
Boyd's days are numbered

all our days are numbered.

Boromart Posted on 09/11/2010 14:20
Boyd's days are numbered

I would say so bear, but he will still score more than 3 even if he is mainly used as a sub. The ability to absolutely batter a ball should not be underestimated. He is a very limited player, but I reckon he can hit a shot as good as anyone in this league.

He reminds me Morten Gamst Pederson. A bit lightweight, can disappear from games, isn't the best crosser of a ball, but he will work hard, and always chip in with spectacular goals and win freekicks with quick feet

TheSmogMonster Posted on 09/11/2010 14:21
Boyd's days are numbered

I don't think Mogga is saying his days are numbered...

"I'm pretty sure he is looking for the team to create more for him and we will work hard to do that."

"It is hard to knock his confidence and belief because he has done it for years now. We just hope this is a spell that we look back on as a relatively slow start, the only way to do that is to stick with him and give him some confidence and belief. Keep going."

rob_fmttm Posted on 09/11/2010 14:27
Boyd's days are numbered

Nope he said that one day when we look back this may have been a blip and Kris Boyd has since gone on to score a lot of goals for us. He was in no way writing him off. I was at the press conference and that was in no way the impression he was gviving.

Bandy Posted on 09/11/2010 14:28
Boyd's days are numbered

Boromart: he is too lightweight. He'll be 9 stone wringing wet. The lad needs to beef up and he will be a better player. As for his goals record - so far so good and he is on course to prove me wrong - so lets hope he bags twenty goals.

Bandy Posted on 09/11/2010 14:29
Boyd's days are numbered

Dont worry rob, Boromart has his future under control

Boromart Posted on 09/11/2010 14:39
Boyd's days are numbered

11stone 7lbs

No one in this team will score 20 this season.


Link: Kink

Adi_Dem Posted on 09/11/2010 14:42
Boyd's days are numbered

It's all just bluster. Botoom line is simple. If Boyd scores goals he will play every week, if he doesn't he won't.

My view is that he will score goals and, more importantly, that we can't afford to have him on the bench.

sasboro1 Posted on 09/11/2010 14:47
Boyd's days are numbered

maybe we cant afford to have him at all if mowbray wants to bring in new players

joebonano Posted on 09/11/2010 14:47
Boyd's days are numbered

I agree with Mowbrays comments 100%.
I cant see Boyd changing his ways myself.He's got away with doing very little for years at Rangers and scored a lot of goals against absolute rubbish opposition.
This is a different ball game and I dont think he's got it in him to adapt.

Adi_Dem Posted on 09/11/2010 15:27
Boyd's days are numbered

Same ball game. Success is driven by goals and he is a goalscorer. It would be a mistake to drop him.

I'm not sure where the notion that he is on a huge salary and that we have to offload him comes from either.

rob_fmttm Posted on 09/11/2010 15:32
Boyd's days are numbered

Mowbray talked about Boyd having a goalscorer's mentality and total confidence in his own ability to score goals. He clearly believes Boyd needs to adjust but has the ability nd desire to do that.

I keep thinking about Elmander at Bolton - how many seasons did it take him to start scoring goals? A good deal longer than we had Alves here for, signed for a not dissimilar club record fee.

Bandy Posted on 09/11/2010 15:32
Boyd's days are numbered

Boyd and Lita up top tonight

Adi_Dem Posted on 09/11/2010 15:35
Boyd's days are numbered

That'd be my choice Bandy.

I also think that when he plays the diamond shape McDonald should be at the point of it i.e. where Williams has been playing.

Bandy Posted on 09/11/2010 15:36
Boyd's days are numbered

I'd go along with that, altho Macdonald serioulsy needs to give his head a shake at the moment. he is playing GASH

sasboro1 Posted on 09/11/2010 15:38
Boyd's days are numbered

problem with playing boyd is as he is a big tall lad and we have a tendency to use him as a target man. he cant hold or head the ball and so the ball gets pinged back to our defence and we sit deep defending more. we play better as a team with lita and mcdonald. mowbray will see this and i think mowbray is laying down the challenge to boyd to show he is worth keeping between now and january

Adi_Dem Posted on 09/11/2010 15:44
Boyd's days are numbered

It is a problem that sas but not to be used against him playing.

It always happens I think that when a tallplayer is up front it becomes too easy to just lump it forward.

The team, in particular Wheater, and the crowd needs to have the discipline and patience to keep the ball until there is an opening.

We tend to play a few good passes and then hoof it!

Agreed Bandy. For all the stick Boyd has been getting McDonald seems to be escaping. He is the counter argument to those that argue Boyd isn't doing enough. He works hard enough McDonald and he is trying but he is currently next to useless. Boyd may not work as hard but has 3 goals in his last 6 games. I know who I'd rather pick currently.

sasboro1 Posted on 09/11/2010 15:46
Boyd's days are numbered

he needs to be alongside a target man. so that means we need a target man and 1 or 2 players who can get quality crosses in. sounds a lot of work to get the best out of him.

Bandy Posted on 09/11/2010 15:49
Boyd's days are numbered

Strikers are judged on goals and Boyd is the most prolific

Boromart Posted on 09/11/2010 15:50
Boyd's days are numbered

"i think mowbray is laying down the challenge to boyd to show he is worth keeping between now and january" absolutely spot on...did I just agree with sas?

I also agree that we need a target man. If we have a targetman then Lita is the man I would consider playing off him, not Boyd. Lita was brilliant for 18 months at Reading playing of Kitson.

Adi_Dem Posted on 09/11/2010 15:51
Boyd's days are numbered

Couldn't disagree more Sas. He doesn't 'need' to play with anyone. He needs chances to be created. If that happens, and to make it happen there are fundamental flaws in the team that need addressing regardless of whether Boyd is on the pitch or not, then Boyd will score goals.

sasboro1 Posted on 09/11/2010 15:52
Boyd's days are numbered

problem with boyd he cant create his own goals and doesnt create anything for anyone else. so unless you build the team around him its going to be difficult for him. at rangers he probably got bucket fulls of chances against crap defenders

Adi_Dem Posted on 09/11/2010 15:54
Boyd's days are numbered

Sas, there aren't many strikers that do those things I'm afraid and certainly not ones that we can afford.

It seems that you want him to work hard, put pressure on defenders, win headers, beat people, create his own chances, create chances for others and be a prolific goalscorer in a team that's second bottom of the Championship!

Bandy Posted on 09/11/2010 15:55
Boyd's days are numbered

If Boyd left us tomorrow and went to Leeds he'd end up in the top 3 of the scoring charts this season

boroluke Posted on 09/11/2010 16:05
Boyd's days are numbered

tipical us we send a stricker on loan to swansea an he scores in his first game

gravyboat Posted on 09/11/2010 16:06
Boyd's days are numbered

I don't think his days are numbered, its just clear Mogga thinks, currently, he doesn't offer enough in a struggling team. As such, he needs to adapt his game slightly.

I think he's absolutely right.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 09/11/2010 16:30
Boyd's days are numbered

According to the press conference notes, he's here for the long term [^]

TheSmogMonster Posted on 09/11/2010 19:55
Boyd's days are numbered

*cough*

Muttley Posted on 09/11/2010 19:56
Boyd's days are numbered

#ahem# [;)]

KingOfTheTribes Posted on 09/11/2010 20:13
Boyd's days are numbered

Boromart [:o)]

The_same_as_before Posted on 09/11/2010 22:06
Boyd's days are numbered

I love these threads

Boromart Posted on 09/11/2010 22:33
Boyd's days are numbered

this thread title was partly tongue in cheek, as you will see by comment agreeing with Sas that Mogga was laying down a challenge to Boyd. He passed that challenge tonight but needs to consistently pass it.

He still has a long way to go to cement his future in the side though, one game and one goal doesn't a good striker make. Fair play to him tonight though, he played he scored, so well done.

He is the kind of player that MUST score every game, otherwise it's like playing with 10.

Maybe Mogga can get us creating the chances we hoped we would create this season and make Boyd an effective player. It's too early to tell yet, but the signs are better than when Strachan was here.

Libbins Posted on 09/11/2010 22:36
Boyd's days are numbered

"He is the kind of player that MUST score every game, otherwise it's like playing with 10. "

That's one of the most ridiculous thingsI've read on here in a long time. You could say that about any striker who goes a game without scoring or assisting!

TheSmogMonster Posted on 09/11/2010 22:39
Boyd's days are numbered

"He is the kind of player that MUST score every game, otherwise it's like playing with 10."

Name a striker who scores every game.

Libbins Posted on 09/11/2010 22:42
Boyd's days are numbered

"face it guys Boyd is a dud. We don't have the personnel to dominate games for him to score."
*belly laughs*

SplendidStuff Posted on 09/11/2010 22:52
Boyd's days are numbered

Will someone please take the spade off him[:D]

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 00:00
Boyd's days are numbered

what I mean by that Libbins is that he doesn't hold the ball up, he doesn't pull defenders out of position, he doesn't have an eye for a pass, he doesn't close players down. He wills core goals no doubt but he does almost nothing inbetween. Plenty of other players impact the game in many other ways without scoring that many goals.

I think you guys need to stop sucking his nob, 5 goals so far in 15 games, it's not exactly irrepressible scoring is it. He needs either a higher goal output or more impact in the game before becoming the real deal.


viv_andersons_nana Posted on 10/11/2010 00:36
Boyd's days are numbered

"5 goals so far in 15 games, it's not exactly irrepressible scoring is it"

Well, maybe it isn't but take into consideration that he's been in a team that's been sh*te for much of the season, all over the pitch, and has struggled for form and points. Remember he's playing in a league that's new to him.

1 in 3 doesn't strike me as being too shabby, especially when you factor in all that's happened with us this season.

1 in 3 is better than Lita, I presume? Yet people clamour for Lita over Boyd.

Boyd will score goals. It's that simple.

Pogatetz_Ate_My_Hamster Posted on 10/11/2010 00:37
Boyd's days are numbered

Sell our top goalscorer?
[:o)]

billdoor Posted on 10/11/2010 00:38
Boyd's days are numbered

IT's better than McDonald too who's just under 1 in 4.

SplendidStuff Posted on 10/11/2010 00:39
Boyd's days are numbered

Just admit you were wrong, its for the best.

robbso Posted on 10/11/2010 00:45
Boyd's days are numbered

Get Aliadiare back,he averaged 1 in 2008,1 in 2009,but oh could he run fast.[smi]

offside-again Posted on 10/11/2010 02:56
Boyd's days are numbered

Well It's up to the rest of the team to cover for Boyd's evident lack of 110% work-rate, he does his bit for me, never had a problem with him been in the side, and for me we are lucky to have him here.

Like others say if anyone is under pressure it is Mac, but then again he hit the net last night, but dropping Boyd would be ludicrous imo.

petedreadnought Posted on 10/11/2010 03:09
Boyd's days are numbered

Egg all over Boromart's face! [:o)]

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 06:50
Boyd's days are numbered

It's exactly like I have said, goals win games, he is a goalscorer and we can ill afford for him not to be in the team given the lack of goals elsewhere. Thankfully, Mowbray recognises that.

Boyd is a class act and will score goals with good service. That's a goal and an assist last night.

His current stats:


He has 5 goals in 1086 minutes of football or 12 games.

A goal every 2.41 games on those figures.

Over a season that equates to 19 goals.

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 07:58
Boyd's days are numbered

Robbso, playing as striker in this league Aliadiere got 1 in 3 for us, some as Boyd but he actually did something between the goals.

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 08:04
Boyd's days are numbered

Another interesting quote from Mogga after the game : "People can concentrate on the negatives with Kris and they're there in front of your face at times."
He agrees with me, that Boyd is a lazy fecker who contributes zilch between scoring. As did Walter Smith at Rangers who dropped him for the tougher games due to lack of contribution to the team.

"But his goal tally speaks for itself, it's invariably one in two, if not better." Can Boyd get up to a 1 in 2 ratio? That is a big ask in this league? I'm not convinced. If he doesn't reach that ratio he will likely be dropped.

I'm not surprised the usual [:o)]s are going OTT for Boyd after one goal. When I was clambering for Boyd to be dropped and Lita to play (clearly hte right decision at that time), Lita scored, but I kept schtum because he needed to do it CONSISTENTLY. Boyd hasn't reached that yet. Although I will happy if he does.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 10/11/2010 08:19
Boyd's days are numbered

"OTT for Boyd after one goal."

No, after FIVE goals.

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 08:26
Boyd's days are numbered

ok after 5 goals, I meant 1 goal since Mogga had verbally layed down a challenge to him.

Jay Bothroyd is a far better player with 10 goals so far AND he works hard, wins knockdown for others, has a good touch, closes people down etc. He is a thorn in the side even when he doesn't score. That is what a class act is, not someone who taps it in from 2 yards then spends the rest of the game making half-ashed waddles after the ball and standing with his hands on his hips gasping for air after 15 mins.

Bandy Posted on 10/11/2010 09:13
Boyd's days are numbered

Boromart, just admit mate you are talking dribble. I said so at the time and will say it again. Admit you got it wrong. It's far easier. Mogga was playing mind games. Rioch did it all the time with Slaven and guess what, he went out and scored. If Tony Mowbray doesnt think Boyd is the answer then he is a fool to himself

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 09:15
Boyd's days are numbered

Well that's not really an accurate description of Boyd either boromart. If you have a view there is no need to embellish it. Despite the wailing he does actually contribute.

Jay Boothroyd is not a better player in my view and I wouldn't swap Boyd for him. In fact, I wouldn't swap Boyd for many strikers at this level.

He is a 1 in 2 goalscorer. Over the season he will be our biggest threat and I'm sorry but it has never been the right choice to play Lita ahead of him. I've said before that it is typical of our fans that the longer a player is out of the side the better he becomes.

Lita is simply not good enough. He is great as a back up, as a player to come off the bench and change a game but he has consistently proven that he will not get enough goals for us.

Bandy Posted on 10/11/2010 09:21
Boyd's days are numbered

"Boyd is a lazy fecker who contributes zilch between scoring"

said Boromart

PRICELESS

The key word here being "scoring"

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 09:22
Boyd's days are numbered

Like I said earlier Bandy, it was slightly tongue in cheek this thread. He is a limited player, and comparing to Slaven, well he did always look dangerous, he wasn't just a goalscorer, as seen by his time on the left wing. Boyd couldn't play in any other position because other than poking it in the net he isn't a footballer.

"Jay Boothroyd is not a better player in my view and I wouldn't swap Boyd for him." -- Come on Adi, Bothroyd is probably the best targetman in this division, and quite possibly the best all round striker. I would have gone for him in the summer when Cardiff were looking financially flakey, but I doubt they would have sold for less than 4 or 5 mill.

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 09:23
Boyd's days are numbered

of course your striker scoring is important.....but the TEAM winning is more important. I remember Boro having a stsriker with 32 goals and only avoiding relegation on the last day.

It's a team game and it's the team winning ratio that counts not an individual. Lets face it he is the starman in a team that is in the bottom third.....hardly proof of him being a success so far.

Bandy Posted on 10/11/2010 09:24
Boyd's days are numbered

"other than poking it in the net he isn't a footballer"

jeez, when will you learn!!!![:D]

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 09:25
Boyd's days are numbered

Come on what? I stand by what I said. You think that Boyd isn't a footballer apart from scoring. I think that's a ridiculous statement to be honest.

I can't agree that Slaven contributed much on the left wing either!

Mowbray played a blinder and continues to do so by doing whatever he can to get the best out of Boyd.

buttermyarse Posted on 10/11/2010 09:26
Boyd's days are numbered

Get Aliadiare back,he averaged 1 in 2008,1 in 2009,but oh could he run fast.[:D][:D]

Bandy Posted on 10/11/2010 09:27
Boyd's days are numbered

Give it up Boromart and admit you were GUTTED last night when Boyd notched another tap in.

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 09:27
Boyd's days are numbered

We were in the bottom 3 not because of Boyd but because of the team of defenders and midfielders behind him. Fix that, create chances and he will do the hardest thing in the game, score a goal.

SplendidStuff Posted on 10/11/2010 09:28
Boyd's days are numbered

'It's a team game and it's the team winning ratio that counts not an individual. Lets face it he is the starman in a team that is in the bottom third.....hardly proof of him being a success so far.'

So is Boyd shyte or the starman?

You seem confused.

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 09:30
Boyd's days are numbered

let me rephrase allegedly the starman.

Have you seen Boyd run? He doesn't run like a professional athlete!

ok, Slaven wasn't that great left wing, but he was played there because he had other abilities than just poking it in the net

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 09:31
Boyd's days are numbered

What were they then?

gerd_muller Posted on 10/11/2010 09:32
Boyd's days are numbered

im gonna join in here

strikers are judged on goals, would you rather have a lump up front causing hassle but only getting 6 a season?

were gary lineker or ian rush great footballers?

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 09:34
Boyd's days are numbered

comparing Boyd to two of the greatest goalscorers of the last 50 years is a bit silly. Boyd isn't anywhere near the class of those two. Both were harder working than Boyd also, with a better touch and passing.

Bandy Posted on 10/11/2010 09:35
Boyd's days are numbered

Boromart: you are talking tripe again. Bernie was played left wing cos him and Lawrence came to blows nearly every game and Lennie tried to make a point and basically played him there til he got hacked off

gerd_muller Posted on 10/11/2010 09:36
Boyd's days are numbered

ian rush wasnt a workhorse.

what about john aldridge then?

you need players in the team who can stick the ball in the net, regardless of anything else or you dont win football matches

Bandy Posted on 10/11/2010 09:38
Boyd's days are numbered

Boromart. What planet are you on mate. YOu want strikers to run about and look busy like Lita and end up with a ratio of 1 in 7. Dear god. I'm glad you arent our chief scout

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 09:43
Boyd's days are numbered

Even Mogga realises he is a lazy fecker, as did Walter Smith and others. He will score goals I agree.....but will he do enough to make up for what he doesn't do.

If you don't defend from the front you will concede goals, if you don't hold the ball up your possession is lost and you concede more goals. He has been pretty awful in most games for us even when he has scored he has been poor. The majority of rangers fans could see it, hence 'pieman' jibes at him, and no complaints from the fans when he got dropped for big games.


Bandy Posted on 10/11/2010 09:45
Boyd's days are numbered

ROLMFAO!!!!

[:D][^]

You are a comedy genius. Time to give it up now tho

buttermyarse Posted on 10/11/2010 09:45
Boyd's days are numbered

"He will score goals I agree"


Isnt that the reason we bought him?[rle]

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 09:46
Boyd's days are numbered

How many games so far can you actually say, he has played well and been a thorn in the side of the opposition ? I would say zero.

Bandy Posted on 10/11/2010 09:47
Boyd's days are numbered

I really hope BOydy sees this thread - he will be laughing his cods off, probably eating a mars bar aswell

japsterboro Posted on 10/11/2010 09:49
Boyd's days are numbered

Aliadiere used to contribute to the team by running around quick and looking 'busy'. BUT, he was brought into score goals and he clearly couldn't do it, no matter how much Southgate played him.

Boyd, on the other hand is in the mould of previous strikers such as Viduka. Also classed as 'lazy' on here by many because he didn't chase lost causes ... I guess that the same people classing Boyd as lazy too, right?![rle]

gerd_muller Posted on 10/11/2010 09:50
Boyd's days are numbered

bloody hell!! aliadiere used to busy himself running all over but his ratio was about 1 in 15

would much rather have boyd in the team than not, i bet he gets over 20 goals this season

CrazyL Posted on 10/11/2010 09:50
Boyd's days are numbered

Not only do we have 'the spirit of 86' back but also 'the argument of 86' This reminds me of all of those conversations on the holgate end:

'What did Slaven do then? Go on tell me?'

'He scored the winner'

'Yeah. But apart from that. What exactly did he do?'


[:o)]

gerd_muller Posted on 10/11/2010 09:50
Boyd's days are numbered

japster - thinking the same[^]

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 09:52
Boyd's days are numbered

Japster.

Ali had 3 goals in 8 or 9 games as striker start of last season, same ratio as Boyd. As you pointed out, he actually contributed between scoring.

Viduka and Boyd were nothing alike. Viduka had a silky touch, quick feet and was the best targetman to wear a Boro shirt. Boyd is a sack of spuds in comparison. Viduka had a reputation for being lazy, which was unfounded as anyone could see by watching him. The only thing they had in common was that they were slow. Viduka was a better goalscorer also.

buttermyarse Posted on 10/11/2010 09:54
Boyd's days are numbered

I suspect this thread may be "hoofed" on more than one occasion over the coming season...[;)]

gerd_muller Posted on 10/11/2010 09:55
Boyd's days are numbered

hoof after boyd gets his 20th

Bandy Posted on 10/11/2010 09:55
Boyd's days are numbered

Boromart, going on BOyd's striking ratio you are going to be doing a lot of digging on here all season. I suggest you stop the slandering and watch the goals flow and actually admit you were wreckless in your assessment of him and actually give the lad some credit for doing what no XXXXXXa has done for yrs at the Boro

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 09:55
Boyd's days are numbered

if he scores 20 league goals and we actually win lots of games and reach the play-offs and win, then I will be more than happy to be proved wrong. But then the issues I have pointed out will be more visible in the prem.

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 09:57
Boyd's days are numbered

Bandy, I have given him credit for scoring, he rose to the challenge and scored last night. Although he was dragged off after an hour because he had become completely ineffective from 35 mins onwards.

superdog Posted on 10/11/2010 09:57
Boyd's days are numbered

boyd just seems to be in the right place at the right time, thats why he is top scorer
he just has that goalscores sixth sense, when the team progresses under mogga which it looks like we are, boyd will grab even more, i think he will finish with around about 16. why all the F****ng moaning about him the lad seems to keep finding the net and we are not even playing well, stick with him and his goal tally will just keep improving mark my words.

MarlonD Posted on 10/11/2010 09:58
Boyd's days are numbered

Boromart, i think we'll woryy about players being PL standard (when) if we get there.

Boyd is the best finisher at the club by a mile.

buttermyarse Posted on 10/11/2010 09:58
Boyd's days are numbered

But then the issues I have pointed out will be more visible in the prem.


So now he isnt good enough for the Prem[:D].No s hit Sherlock.**CLUTCHING AT STRAWS**

bear66 Posted on 10/11/2010 09:58
Boyd's days are numbered

Lita played well when he came on last night and showed what Boyd doesn't give. 11 players win a game and that was a good decision to take Boyd off. Last night, Hoyte, O'Neil, Bennett, Lita and Wheater looked more likely to get the third goal than Boyd. Boyd was OK in the first half but didn't help when we were under a sustained period of pressure. Lita came on and our game changed instantly.


Bandy Posted on 10/11/2010 09:58
Boyd's days are numbered

You still dont get it do you?

Admit you are WRONG about him. Nobody will pick on you or call you names. [:(]

Libbins Posted on 10/11/2010 09:59
Boyd's days are numbered

Just admit that you're talking out of your backside and know nothing about football. [:D]

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 10:04
Boyd's days are numbered

bear66 the voice of reason. Too many happyclappers on here, take the rose tinted speccies of lads. Due to his poor play and poor fitness the lad needs to score a phenomenal number of goals and be the leagues top scorer, otherwise it doesn't really make up for his deficiencies.

Libbins/Bandy I know plenty about what makes a decent footballer.....who is running away with our FMTTM fantasy premier league [:D]

Bandy Posted on 10/11/2010 10:06
Boyd's days are numbered

LOL!!!

buttermyarse Posted on 10/11/2010 10:08
Boyd's days are numbered

So if he isnt the leagues top scorer you are right and everyone else is wrong? [cr]

MarlonD Posted on 10/11/2010 10:08
Boyd's days are numbered

So let me get this straight, he scores goals for us but you want more out of him.

I can't remember teams getting awarded points for how much effort their players put in, can you ??

He knows where to stand, he knows how to finish, therefore he is our best striker at the club.

Boromart, we all know he carries a bit of weight and he will never spend the whole match running around like a headless chicken, leave that to the other striker but quite frankly i couldn't give a fcuk if he runs about with his knob hanging out as long as he scores those things that win matches.

GOALS.

Kilburn Posted on 10/11/2010 10:10
Boyd's days are numbered

I read this article the other day about another striker, Theo Gekas, who sounds like Boyd's long-lost twin.


Link: Gekas

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 10:11
Boyd's days are numbered

"I can't remember teams getting awarded points for how much effort their players put in, can you ??"

No you get awarded points for scoring more than the opposition. We have seen plenty of games so far this season, where Boyd has been the invisible man and our team have been over-run, partly due to his lack of holding the ball up or closing people down.

Lets face it, I am only repeating what many Rangers fans told us, and they watched him for 5 years and despite all the goals were still unconvinced by him!

bear66 Posted on 10/11/2010 10:11
Boyd's days are numbered

"I can't remember teams getting awarded points for how much effort their players put in, can you ??"

Every game I think . . .

In a 4-3-3 like last night the front man has to have some pace as an outlet (unless he's Viduka, which Boyd isn't.)

Even Emnes got more of a sing-sog last night than Boyd

gerd_muller Posted on 10/11/2010 10:12
Boyd's days are numbered

BUT HE SCORES GOALS

Libbins Posted on 10/11/2010 10:13
Boyd's days are numbered

Yesterday Boromart, you were telling us to "face it" and that he was a "dud".

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 10:14
Boyd's days are numbered

no one disputes that. Why did Rangers always drop him for games against Celtic or decent european opposition?

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 10:15
Boyd's days are numbered

He was taken off after 70 mins because the game had changed.

Boyd, the one going off, set us up for the win. To credit other players because they "looked more likely" to get the third and to say that Boud came off for being "ineffective" is just plain nonsense.

He started the game, won it for us and left the pitch, damage done.

But hey he doesn't run around like an idiot, beat players or drop deep to pick up the ball so he's no good!!

buttermyarse Posted on 10/11/2010 10:16
Boyd's days are numbered

Who gives a shoite what Rangers did with him? He was bought as a Championship player to score goals in the Championship. And thats what he is doing.[^]

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 10:21
Boyd's days are numbered

that's a bit naive to dismiss the opinions of fans who have watched him for 5 years. Or indeed the managers who wouldn't play him in those big games, why did they drop him?

The way some people are jizzing over him you would think he had 15 goals not 5.

Adi, it is over-egging it a bit to say he won it for us, it was a 2 yard tap in after a great cross from Bennett. It would be just as accurate, maybe more, to say he would have lost the game for us if he had stayed on for 90 mins.

MarlonD Posted on 10/11/2010 10:28
Boyd's days are numbered

"he would have lost the game for us if he had stayed on for 90 mins."

Youi are taking the pi$$ I assume.

If you're not, in the words of the Dragons, "I'm oot"

buttermyarse Posted on 10/11/2010 10:30
Boyd's days are numbered

It would be just as accurate, maybe more, to say he would have lost the game for us if he had stayed on for 90 mins.

How would he have done that then? You really are clueless...[rle]

gerd_muller Posted on 10/11/2010 10:30
Boyd's days are numbered

i read that latest comment about losing the game with boyd on with absolute incredulity

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 10:32
Boyd's days are numbered

the problem with Boyd is that it is literally like playing with 10 men after an hour.

buttermyarse Posted on 10/11/2010 10:37
Boyd's days are numbered

the problem with Boyd is that it is literally like playing with 10 men after an hour.

Yes but we were two up within 25 minutes. And he scored.Game over

bear66 Posted on 10/11/2010 10:37
Boyd's days are numbered

didn't feel like that till 10 minutes to go

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 10:40
Boyd's days are numbered

butters, you have been watching Boro long enough to know that 2-0 up within 25mins does not mean points in the bag. I remember being 3-0 up at Pride Park with 10 mins left and only getting a draw :( and 4-2 up at Carrow Road in injury time.....4-4 draw at the final whistle

billdoor Posted on 10/11/2010 10:41
Boyd's days are numbered

JEsus, this isn't a black and white issuse, you don't HAVE to be in one of two corners over Boyd.

He was brought in to score goals and so far he's doing that. We knew he wasn't an energetic team player when we signed him.

The key here is Mowbray. He picks Boyd when he thinks his style of play will be effective, he takes him off when he wants a different player i.e. Lita holding the ball player and being a general pain, in the team. Like he did last night. Started Boyd, he did his part, took him off after 69 minutes. Next match he might decide to start Lita with McDonald.

The point is that we have strikers with different attributes and Mowbray gets to pick who will be best against our opposition. It's something that should be a positive, not a case of trying to hammer down a player.

Bandy Posted on 10/11/2010 10:42
Boyd's days are numbered

I have a few Rangers supporting mates and the most qualified is a st holder who quoted "he's a lazy basta but if you need goals he'll get them"

Boromart. Dont let your hatred get in the way of a perfectly good goalscorer. You are embarassing yourself now. A bit like you did with Aliadamere

buttermyarse Posted on 10/11/2010 10:42
Boyd's days are numbered

Yes I remember those games.Its was all Boyds fault.Lazy Fecker.I give up.Keep fighting the good fight mate.[^]

Libbins Posted on 10/11/2010 10:45
Boyd's days are numbered

"no one disputes that"

Eh? So everyone is in agreement that our top scorer is a dud?

petedreadnought Posted on 10/11/2010 10:50
Boyd's days are numbered

I thought you might have wiped that egg off your face by now, Boromart.

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 10:51
Boyd's days are numbered

no one seems prepared to answer why Rangers dropped him for the big games.

If he is so good, and a record goalscorer, surely the big games are the ones you would absolutely want him on the field? So why wasn't he?

Bandy, I don't have a hatred of him. I reserve footballing hatred for Joey Barton, Marlon King, Ronaldo and Basil Bolle

Bandy Posted on 10/11/2010 10:51
Boyd's days are numbered

he cant - he has a shovel in both hands.

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 10:55
Boyd's days are numbered

Are you seriously saying that it would be more accurate to say that had Boyd stayed on the pitch for another 20 minutes we would have lost the game than it is to say that because he scored the opening goal after 6 minutes he won the game for us? Really?

What are these other attributes that you want from him? Laying in other players like he did for McDonald's goal?

What you're saying here is that you want him to chase the ball down up front. Well sorry, but I couldn't give a shiny XXXXXXe whether he chases anything down at all. If he scores a goal after 6 mins away from home and then sets up the second twenty minutes later then he has done his job. 2-0 up away from home, let's go home with the three points thank you very much.

petedreadnought Posted on 10/11/2010 10:56
Boyd's days are numbered

[:D] Bandy.

MawTheMerrier Posted on 10/11/2010 11:15
Boyd's days are numbered

"other than poking it in the net he isn't a footballer"

--------

[:D]

Boyd is so dangerous, that no oppo side would leave him free, so just by standing there doing nowt (as he is accused) he is still tying up defenders. [^]

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 11:16
Boyd's days are numbered

Adi, it's a bit OTT to say he setup the second. It wasn't a killer pass, or a clever lay off. It was a bog standard 2 yard tap to Scott. He wasn't under any pressure from a CB, there were no players making the lay off difficult. Scott then used quick feet to make a yard for himself and score. I could have done what he did there, if he couldn't make that pass he shouldn't be on the field.

There were similarities with the Bristol City game for me. Except against Bristol Boyd stayed on after an early goal and was completely anonymous as Bristol came back into it and we ended up defeated.

Last night we dropped him when we started to get overrun, and went back to playing with XI men and held out fairly comfortably in the end.

We have transformed as a team, differant ethos and tactics. So I think we need to see what the first 10 Mogga games bring. I would want 5 or 6 goals out of Boyd in that period and I would want 5 wins. I will re-asses then.

Bandy Posted on 10/11/2010 11:18
Boyd's days are numbered

Boromart: DId you used to wet your knickers with worry over Alen Boksiccos he was a right lazy charlie but bagged us important goals. If you want a striker who will socre lots of goals and has thw workrate then you should contact MOgga to see if he has heard of David Villa. I've heard he is ripping up La Liga

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 11:19
Boyd's days are numbered

no one prepared to answer this fact :

"no one seems prepared to answer why Rangers dropped him for the big games.

If he is so good, and a record goalscorer, surely the big games are the ones you would absolutely want him on the field? So why wasn't he?"


come on, one of you know-feck-alls must be prepared to put some daft positive spin on it.

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 11:23
Boyd's days are numbered

Bandy comparing Boyd to Boksic is embarrassing. Boksic was one of the greatest strikers in the world during the 90s. It is a daft comparison.

As well as being a goalscorer, Super Alen was also quick, skilful and strong. What else does Boyd bring to the table?

skiprat Posted on 10/11/2010 11:24
Boyd's days are numbered

"Lita played well when he came on last night and showed what Boyd doesn't give."

I must have mislaid my eyes last night because the Lita I saw had the ball bouncing off him and was over hitting passes all over the pitch when he came on.

Another big one to mention is that he didn't score either.

If only all of our players could do nothing else but score goals.

It's like fans expecting Downing to tackle like Boateng when he was here, it's not the way he plays and to suggest that we've lost games because Boyd isn't keeping hold of the ball upfront is absolute rubbish.

We've lost games because Wheater and McManus have been having a twice weekly nightmare. No other reason.

Pauluka Posted on 10/11/2010 11:24
Boyd's days are numbered

Boromart, stop talking nonsense. I know loads of Rangers fans and they were gutted when he left. Why? Maybe look at his Goalscoring record to see

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 11:26
Boyd's days are numbered

boromart - Boyd played 19 times in Europe for Rangers, missed only 5 cup games and played in many of the old firm games.

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 11:27
Boyd's days are numbered

Pauluka, Celtic fans were gutted when he left also. They were always happy to see him waddling on the pitch looking disinterested against them.

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 11:29
Boyd's days are numbered

You can't have it both ways boromart. You say he does nothing but score goals but he had his back to goal, showed for the ball, received it and laid it off to McDonald. He makes excellent, intelligent runs that move defenders. He doesn't charge around with pace, he is clever and makes clever runs.

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 11:31
Boyd's days are numbered

Adi, Boyd started 10 games out of 30 in europe for Rangers.

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 11:31
Boyd's days are numbered

Not according to the Rangers sites I read.

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 11:33
Boyd's days are numbered

I'm not having last night as a super assist.

He was static, back to goal, the ball was played straight to him and it was a 2 yard layoff, nothing flash, his layoff didn't open the defnse up, it was Scottys run that did that. It is the first time I can recall this season that he has had an assist to his name.

Bandy Posted on 10/11/2010 11:34
Boyd's days are numbered

Maybe if Rangers had decided to play with invention then they may have used him. I think Rangers play a 8 2 zero formation in Europe

Pauluka Posted on 10/11/2010 11:35
Boyd's days are numbered

Fooook off statto, its what he does for us. And he's currently scoring goals. But yeah let's play Lita instead who runs around a lot rather than score

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 11:36
Boyd's days are numbered

Who said it was a super assist? Do we have to assess every assist before it counts? Only if it is a piece of brilliance does it count?

You have said he doesn't offer anything else, you have said that he never holds the ball and lays it off to teammates. Last night was proof that that isn't true.

I think you're flogging a dead horse here and you need to accept you've got it wrong.

Starting with Boyd not on the pitch would be a monumental mistake. Thankfully, Mogga realises that.

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 11:37
Boyd's days are numbered

I'm just being a realist Paul, everyone is jizzing over Boyd like he is Marco van-XXXXXXin Basten. He isn't he is very limited and needs everyone else on top form to be effective.

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 11:39
Boyd's days are numbered

one swallow doesn't make a summer Adi. The fact that no one can figure out why Rangers dropped their record goalscorer for the big games tells me that you know the answer supports my theory about his limitations.

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 11:42
Boyd's days are numbered

Who is "jizzing" over him? You said his days were numbered and went on to explain that he did nothing except score goals. Those that disagree have pointed out that not only is that priceless, he also offers something else to the team with his clever running and threat.

As I've already said they didn't drop him for the big games. Those that he was left out of might have been for any number of reasons. Did he have a niggle? Did the team want to play in a different formation? Was he out of form? It's an utter nonsense and you're using it to prove an argument that he isn't good enough for us. But cling to that if you want to. It's a very small straw though.

Of course strikers need the team to function properly it's in the nature of what they're expected to do.

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 11:56
Boyd's days are numbered

Adi everyone knows that Boyd was dropped for big games, nothing to do with niggles or loss of form, that is just smoke and mirrors. He was the top goalscorer, and record SPL scorer, it's the big games you need those players. But clearly he is a flat track bully.

Swansea will be interesting, they are a very strong defensive side. He will always score goals, but he needs to increase from his current rate. He has 3 in 6, but we only won two of them, which at the end of the day is the only stat that matters and reflects his lack of impact on the team. But lets give Mogga ten games to settle down and see if he can create a team shape that lets Boyd do his thing, while others do the hard graft.

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 12:10
Boyd's days are numbered

Just because you keep repeating it doesn't make it true. Equally, you can't tell me the reason he missed some of the games, instead it's just that 'everybody knows'.

Now you're saying, and correct me if I'm not reading this correctly, that it is Kris Boyd's fault that some of those games he has scored in, we haven't gone on to win

His current rate, as I've said above, is close to 1 in 2. Not many strikers in world football have a better rate.

It seems that you want a player that chases around the place, holds up play and brings the midfield in, creates chances for others, creates his own chances and scores every game.

Sorry, they don't exist, particularly for a team like us in the division we are in.

UAUA Posted on 10/11/2010 12:11
Boyd's days are numbered

We need to sign Drogba, he does all that.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 10/11/2010 12:12
Boyd's days are numbered

Still the top scorer [^]

In fact, he's scored another since I posted that yesterday [^]

The goals go in, his confidence goes up, his contributuion elsewhere improves [^]

Seen it so many times in goalscorers.

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 12:26
Boyd's days are numbered

hope your right CTC

Adi, I will correct you. I'm saying that some of the blame for defeats is on his shoulders in games he plays badly, misses chances, or doesn't score and doesn't contribute in other ways.

"It seems that you want a player that chases around the place, holds up play and brings the midfield in, creates chances for others, creates his own chances and scores every game."
No you misunderstand.

If he has :
- a good goalscoring rate and holds up play [^]
- a good goalscoring rate and creates chances for others [^]
- a good goalscoring rate and pulls defenders out of position through pacey runs [^]
- a good goalscoring rate and creates chances out of nothing through a bit of brilliance [^]

But none of that fits Boyd. He either scores and contributes, or doesn't score and is a waste of skin. In 66%+ of games he has featured in for us, he has been in the later camp. He needs to find a way of adding value in those large number of games he doesn't score.

11 games so far he has been dud, 5 he has been good.

ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 10/11/2010 12:28
Boyd's days are numbered

Hopefully, Mogga can get Boyd to contribute more to the team and improve parts of his game that aren't so effective. Rioch did that with Slaven.

As for last night's assist, ok it wasn't a killer pass or owt, but he was involved and an assist is an assist, just as a goal is a goal, whether it be a two-yard tap-in or a 30-yard belter. As for the poster who said Ian Rush didn't have a great work-rate, I always remember him being acknowledged as Liverpool's first line of defence.

Going back to Boyd, he's proved that if he gets the service, he'll do his bit by getting in the right positions. 4 of his 5 goals this season have come from crosses, including two in the last three games.

I'd like to see him contribute more. It's just my opinion that in this day and age, forwards have to offer something more than just goalscoring, as per Boromart's last post.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 10/11/2010 12:33
Boyd's days are numbered

He doesn't need all of that at this level. We just need another Uwe Fuchs. He was shyte but he kept knocking them in, and in the end we were promoted.

We had a better all round squad back then, maybe that's where you should be looking for improvement.

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 12:33
Boyd's days are numbered

Well, put simply, you're wrong then.

He creates space through intelligent runs, why do they have to be pacey?

He held up play last night and set up a goal.

he takes a mean free kick.

He worries defenders.

Oh, and most importantly, HE SCORES GOALS.

I think at the start of the season by the way he was winning every header he went for so you can add that to the list as well.

I hope he continues to 'only' score for us because everything else you mention contributes nothing without a goal at the end of it.

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 12:35
Boyd's days are numbered

Mr Cat spot on again. As I have said, too many keep just looking at Boyd as the problem. He isn't. The team not functioning properly has been the problem and it's that that needs fixing.

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 12:46
Boyd's days are numbered

Good job Mogga knows his onions:

“You’re never going to take away his ability to get in those positions to score but every player needs a player who is going to put the ball in the back of the net.

“When things aren’t going to well for you Boyd’s goals can make all the difference.

“We know he likes to play in certain areas of the field but he more than makes up for what he sometimes doesn’t bring to the team.

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 12:56
Boyd's days are numbered

Adi you need to temper those Mogga comments with the negative ones he made about it the negative aspects of Kris Boyd being obvious.

"He creates space through intelligent runs, why do they have to be pacey?"
If you have pace then defenders don't know if they need to stay tight or not. He hasn't got pace, defenders know they can give him a yard more room (outside the six yard box) than other players.

"He held up play last night and set up a goal."
His hold up play is pants, last nights two yard tap to Scott doesn't change that. If he starts to hold hte ball up more, I would be more than happy with him.

"he takes a mean free kick."
Kink is much better

"he was winning every header"
Head like a 50 pence piece though.

I think the hold up play bit is what he needs to get to grips with. That is most suited to his, *ahem* frame. If he becomes even adequate at this then he is a different player, but the ball comes off him too easily. Something Mogga alluded to after the match, as a reason why he was subbed.

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 12:59
Boyd's days are numbered

I think you just need to get a grip boromart!

You're entrenched and just keep digging.

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 13:01
Boyd's days are numbered

Adi, not entrenched just not going OTT over a couple of goals. I think people need to calm down over him.

MawTheMerrier Posted on 10/11/2010 13:02
Boyd's days are numbered

this thread is gona get hoofed when Boyd knocks his 20th goal of the season in. [^]

woodymfc Posted on 10/11/2010 13:05
Boyd's days are numbered

aha Boyd's number one fan at it again [:D]

Although he scored last night, he could do an awful lot more in the game.

I can't remember him winning one header last night

billdoor Posted on 10/11/2010 13:07
Boyd's days are numbered

I don't like the word, but this thread has EPIC written all over it. Someone ask Rob to make it a sticky.


Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 13:11
Boyd's days are numbered

if it becomes epic due to Boyd doing the biz I will be more than happy to be wrong. We shall see.

billdoor Posted on 10/11/2010 13:13
Boyd's days are numbered

Will you agree to change your name to 'BoromartlovesBoyd' if he hits 20 goals?

Big_Shot Posted on 10/11/2010 13:13
Boyd's days are numbered

The few times I watched Rangers in Europe the season they got to the UEFA Cup final they used to play with 1 up front, and were not that adverturous going forward. Smith obviously felt others were better suited to that role. Although when I saw them I always thought Darcheville was poor and it seemed a bit silly to completely overlook their top scorer, Boyd. I remember commentators saying similar.

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 13:15
Boyd's days are numbered

15 goals in the next 30 games. Nae bother.

Who is going mad about him though boromart? I am perfectly calm. I'm not arguing he is the best in the world, I'm saying that he does what we need him to do, he's our best bet for goals and that our problems lie elsewhere in the team, not with him.

bear66 Posted on 10/11/2010 13:17
Boyd's days are numbered

what are the problems . . . . unless it's the risk that McManus comes back when he's fit

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 13:19
Boyd's days are numbered

The problems have been a lack of patience and decision making on the ball resulting in us hoofing it, a weak mentality allowing opposing teams to bully us out of games, a chronic lack of width, a lack of willingness to support attacks from midfield, a lack of pace, a lack of balance in the midfield, poor fullback, two similar centre halves playing as badly as each other.

That's just off the top of my head!

billdoor Posted on 10/11/2010 13:20
Boyd's days are numbered

It's what our problems have been more than what they are.

Mowbray's come in and played full backs at full back, tried different formations for the midfield, asked players to push up more, especially the full backs, kept his strikers up field more often including getting McDonald to stop floating back to midfield constantly and he's installed belief in the team. Round pegs, round holes and he seems to adapt to the game as it's being played.

We still have the problem of lacking players in certain positions but the problems we've had are more due to Strachan's time. So far Mowbray's doing a good job of fixing them.

superstu Posted on 10/11/2010 13:26
Boyd's days are numbered

I agree with Boromart, we're gonna be best off dropping him for the latter stages of the Champions League/Europa League.

bear66 Posted on 10/11/2010 13:26
Boyd's days are numbered

All valid points but sort some out and others stop being an issue. We had two long spells (two goals came from the first) where we played across the back until there was a forward ball and then played back rather than lose it. It was patient and didn't require too much pace and the chances came. Thomson and Arca were at their best in these spells.

Towards the end of the game when we needed to be more defensive as they came forward we used the long ball to Lita with O'Neil providing excellent support after some good holding up.

The players have the same limitations but our style was overcoming them

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 13:27
Boyd's days are numbered

Don't get me wrong, I agree with that bear. I was more referring to the games prior to Mowbray's appointment.

Mowbray has definitely changed something.

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 13:27
Boyd's days are numbered

billdoor we have 30 games left. If he is just gonna score goals then I want better than 1 in 2.

For a natural goalscorers that doesn't work outside the box then this shouldn't be asking too much.

- Ebanks-Blake 25 in 08-09 and 23 in 08-09
- James Beattie got 22 and only played 1/2 of a season in 09-09
- Jamie Cureton got 23 in this league with Colchester 3 seasons ago
- Andy Cole got 34 in 40 for the Skunks under Keegan at this level.

Plenty of precedence for him to score well over 1 goal in 2 in this league. If Jamie Cureton can do it then he should.

If he gets another 20 league goals, 25 in total I will change to BoromartLovesBoyd for one month.

If he gets a total of 30 league goals, I will change it to BoromartBumsBoyd for one month.

If he gets 35 league goals this season I will wear a T-shirt to a game with BoromartBumsBoyd written on it and wear a hat in the shape of a giant tit.

Are you happy with that?

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 13:29
Boyd's days are numbered

You want him to get better than 1 in 2?

You're off your rocker!

TheSmogMonster Posted on 10/11/2010 13:30
Boyd's days are numbered

Uwe Fuchs wasn't shyte, don't go ruining my childhood CTC, he was a god amongst men.

Boromart, I'm agree Boyd isn't a good all round footballer, but of the 2 things which are key to winning a football match, scoring and not conceding, he's extremely good at half of them.

Mogga seems to know how to get more out of him then WGS did and I think you'll see more from Boyd.

As for the Rangers games, wasn't it often because Walter Smith felt the need to play 4-5-1 in Europe and he didn't feel Boyd worked hard enough for that role?

sasboro1 Posted on 10/11/2010 13:31
Boyd's days are numbered

welcome to the dark side boromart[smi][}:)]

footyteam Posted on 10/11/2010 13:31
Boyd's days are numbered

hard work isnt about running around like a headless chicken. Boyd can be more effective defensively by taking up certain positions.

if williams is chasing down a full back, Boyd can move a few yards to block off a path.

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 13:32
Boyd's days are numbered

many other players have managed that Adi. If he is going to be just a goalscorer then that is the ratio he has to aim to beat. Ebanks-Blake did it for 2 seasons and won a ton of headers, and held the ball up.

James Beattie did it with a carp Sheff Utd team.

Andy Cole was closer to one goal per game.

if a decidedly average player like Jamie Cureton can beat 1 in 2, then why shouldn't Boyd?

If he is such a clever player in the six yard box then it is very achievable.

billdoor Posted on 10/11/2010 13:33
Boyd's days are numbered

Boromart - happy with your suggestions[:D]

I will say that if Boyd hits 20 goals in a season and gets slagged off, it's beyond harsh, especially considering he played 12 games in a woeful, woeful side.

Any striker who gets 20 in a season shouldn't be slated.

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 13:38
Boyd's days are numbered

"As for the Rangers games, wasn't it often because Walter Smith felt the need to play 4-5-1 in Europe and he didn't feel Boyd worked hard enough for that role?"
Exactly. Why did Smith feel that way? Because the quality of opposition in europe was greater than the SPL.......Swansea, Reading and Palace are a good deal better than Motherwell, Kilmarnock and St Mirren

"welcome to the dark side boromart"
I would say it' more grey than dark here.

"hard work isnt about running around like a headless chicken" - agreed, closing down at the appropriate time is important and is far better than not bothering to close down full-stop.

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 13:41
Boyd's days are numbered

Ebanks Blake got more than 20 goals once in 08/09 and was in a good side. He got slightly better than 1 in 2.

Beattie played 23 games in 08/09 and got a rate of 1 in 2.

Cureton had a strike rate of 1 in 2 that season.

Andy Cole is a European Cup winner and one of the best strikers to have played in England. He scored a goal in each of the 12 games he played at this level for Newcastle. That's 12 games, not over a 46 game season.

The point is it is ridiculous to expect Boyd to get a better rate than 1 in 2 when most of the world's best strikers don't achieve that and even when they do it is very short lived.

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 13:43
Boyd's days are numbered

Yep, closing down wins you matches and stops you conceding. That's where we're gong wrong!

Smith felt that way because he was playing a different system. Simple.

fatharrywhite Posted on 10/11/2010 13:43
Boyd's days are numbered

"James Beattie got 22 and only played 1/2 of a season in 09-09"

by 'half the season' you mean he got those in 39 games - which was 07/08 by the way

it was the season after he was out half a season and got 12 that year..

TheSmogMonster Posted on 10/11/2010 13:44
Boyd's days are numbered

"Exactly. Why did Smith feel that way? Because the quality of opposition in europe was greater than the SPL.......Swansea, Reading and Palace are a good deal better than Motherwell, Kilmarnock and St Mirren "

Boyd wouldn't be effective as a lone striker, his attributes are wrong for it. That is a tactical reason; it's not because he didn't rate Boyd he just thought he had players better suited to the task on the day.

Considering Rangers record in Europe, you can't even argue that it's a change that really paid off for them.

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 13:51
Boyd's days are numbered

Adi
07-08 Ebanks-Blake scored 25 in 49 for Plymouth and Wolves in the championship. Marginally better than 1 in 2

08-09 Beattie got 12 goals in 23 games, marginally more than 1 in 2.

both those players also were brilliant at hold up play.

Jamie Cureton in a poor team got 23 in 44.

Andy Cole was just a kid and got a goal a game ok only over 1/3rd of a season.

Nathan Ellington 24 in 45 for Watford 04-05
Andy Johnson 28 in 45 for Palace in 03-04

loads of examples of a better than 1 in 2 rate.

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 13:53
Boyd's days are numbered

Jeams Beattie 12 goals in 23 games 08-09 transferred to Stoke in January.


Link: search for Beattie and look at the season 08-09

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 13:54
Boyd's days are numbered

Sorry boromart but you're clutching again.

Aside from occasional, short lived scoring periods there just aren't many that significantly beat 1 in 2. It has and always will be the benchmark of a good striker.

I see you're now bringing in all of the other nonsense about working hard or holding the ball up to support these goalscoring legends.

The fact is that you should have just admitted to being wrong a long time ago.

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 13:56
Boyd's days are numbered

SmogMonster didn't they reach a UEFA cup final? and champs league group stage twice when Boyd was there?

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 13:56
Boyd's days are numbered

Exactly what I said boromart. A record of a goal every 1.92 games. So, basically, 1 in 2, just like almost everyone else you refer to.

If Boyd gets 1 in 2 for the season then I'm sorry he has been a roaring success and deserves to be praised to the hilt.

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 13:57
Boyd's days are numbered

Adi you said earlier 20 nah problem. that's nearly 1 in 2, so beating one in 2 shouldn't be that hard either.

I have just listed a bunch of strikers, some of them quite average players who have beaten 1 in 2 in this league and told you when. It is very possible for a 'goalscoring legend'.

hewielewie Posted on 10/11/2010 13:59
Boyd's days are numbered

Boromart, can't you just admit that with your quote
"Boyd is going to be benched for some time" you were wrong?

hewielewie Posted on 10/11/2010 14:00
Boyd's days are numbered

"that's nearly 1 in 2, so beating one in 2 shouldn't be that hard either"

What??? [?]

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 14:01
Boyd's days are numbered

Beating 1 in 2 shouldn't be that hard?

OK then, if you say so.

Yoo've listed a bunch of strikers who have hit around 1 in 2, some slightly and I do mean slightly, better. All penalty takers too.

So I'm sorry but I will just repeat what I said. If he gets 1 in 2 or close to 1 in 2 then he has been a roaring success.

However, if you'd be happy to accept 1 in 3 and a bit of closing down then that's up to you.

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 14:10
Boyd's days are numbered

adi why belittle my statements. I didn't say 'a bit of closing down'. I gave a number of other attributes which he could bring but hasn't. The fact that he keeps getting subbed and quite early in some games has to bring some question marks to his game. All those other strikers I listed who marginally broke 1 in 2 did do other things, like Ebanks-Blakes hold up play being a prime example.

hewie, I admit I was (probably) wrong with that.

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 14:18
Boyd's days are numbered

I am not belittling you I just can't see how you can justify what you are saying.

He is there to score goals. It's exactly what we bought him for. That's what he does. You seem to want him to do all these other things that have no relevance.

You say that all of those other players brought more attributes to the team but I don't see it. Boyd does more than just score goals by the way, his running is extremely intelligent even if he doesn't chase around like an idiot or have any pace.

You choose not to see that and that's fine but to argue that all of those other players brought more to the team than Boyd and that because of that Boyd has to beat 1 in 2 just sounds silly to me.

borolad259 Posted on 10/11/2010 14:27
Boyd's days are numbered

So good to have you back Adi. [:D]

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 14:29
Boyd's days are numbered

Are you being sarcastic Mr 259?????

borolad259 Posted on 10/11/2010 14:42
Boyd's days are numbered

Not at all mate.

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 14:43
Boyd's days are numbered

I was just kidding. Knew I should have used the winky smiley thing!!

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 10/11/2010 14:48
Boyd's days are numbered

5 goals already this season in a poor side [^]

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 14:50
Boyd's days are numbered

4 in his last 8.

Passenger.

bear66 Posted on 10/11/2010 15:07
Boyd's days are numbered

and how many wins when he scored?

billdoor Posted on 10/11/2010 15:09
Boyd's days are numbered

Striker's job is to score. If he does and we lose, why look to him to apportion blame?

Was Leeds his fault? Was Derby his fault?

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 15:11
Boyd's days are numbered

Apparently so. Had he worked a bit harder we'd have won those comfortably.

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 15:11
Boyd's days are numbered

billdoor that is an oversimplification. His job is play a part in the TEAM winning.


By that simplified black and white view that if he scores he has done his job, then in more than 66% of games this season Boyd has failed to do his job.

billdoor Posted on 10/11/2010 15:17
Boyd's days are numbered

Boromart, just responding to the question of how many we've won when Boyd scores, which is an irrelevance.

Look, prior to Mowbray we've been awful this season, as a unit. Not just Boyd, or McDonald, but throughout the entire club. If you want to judge him, judge him when we're actually playing as a team. If you want to go from Mowbray's start, do that. 2 goals in 3 games, we won two of them.

Pauluka Posted on 10/11/2010 15:20
Boyd's days are numbered

Clueless

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 15:21
Boyd's days are numbered

agreed that is sensible billdoor (although I doubt others will extend that same courtesy towards Bailey!)

He has scored 2, but has also been subbed at half time for being gash, we then went on to turn a 1-0 deficit into a win. So he hasn't been the unmitigated success some would claim, but the signs are that he is improving as the team improves.

billdoor Posted on 10/11/2010 15:25
Boyd's days are numbered

Boromart - well that's fair to me. Boyd will be the best threat a lot of the time, at other times he'd be best replaced with Lita. I trust Mowbray to make the right changes.

As for Bailey, he still has time to prove himself and hopefully the new manager will be able to get the best of him - hopefully![^]

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 15:30
Boyd's days are numbered

I go along with that entirely boromart. He ain't perfect, he's going to have stinkers and lean spells. What you just said though is not what has been disagreed with, your original post and subsequent replies is what has.

ovy1 Posted on 10/11/2010 15:31
Boyd's days are numbered

I Like Boromarts comment "There were similarities with the Bristol City game for me. Except against Bristol Boyd stayed on after an early goal and was completely anonymous as Bristol came back into it and we ended up defeated"

Who scored that early goal again!!??

hewielewie Posted on 10/11/2010 15:37
Boyd's days are numbered

I wager it is a lot harder to put the ball in a eight feet high and eight yards wide hole than it is to boot the aforementioned ball anywhere else but in the hole.

skiprat Posted on 10/11/2010 16:55
Boyd's days are numbered

I'd have ducked out of this thread a day or so ago Boromart.

Embarrassing TBH.

I think some people need to remember the kind of strikers we can "buy" these days.

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 17:10
Boyd's days are numbered

why would I duck out when it makes the day go quicker?

ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 10/11/2010 17:18
Boyd's days are numbered

In fairness to Boromart, Boyd isn't the most mobile of strikers, but just because he doesn't charge around like a headless chicken, doesn't mean that he's lazy. He could be more dynamic and could use his size/height better.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 10/11/2010 17:24
Boyd's days are numbered

I've just got in from work and can't believe this thread is still running. Boromart, give it up mate.

[:D]

You keep asking, Boromart, why Rangers left Boyd on the bench for games against Celtic and for European ties. I'd like to suggest that maybe it was because they usually changed formation/tactics for matches like that. They'll usually go 4-5-1 in Europe and settle for a draw, even settling for a draw at home before a ball is kicked sometimes. They knew their limitations and played a system to suit i.e. - someone with bags of running, who pestered the opposition. Kenny Miller perhaps. Boyd usually came on late in those games in the hope that, if things had gone to plan and Rangers were still in the game, they could fashion one chance and nick a winner or, if they were a goal down, snatch a draw.

They knew they'd see less of the ball and played the players to suit the type of game. At Boro, Mowbray will want us to keep the ball and dominate the opposition and create chances. That's where Boyd comes in.

Next season, if we manage to go up, we might see a similar thing when we play away to Man.United or Arsenal. McDonald up-front on his own and two or three there to support from midfield. Boyd ready to come on with 20-30 minutes in the hope we can create a chance for him.

Rangers were just utilising their squad, or rather Walter Smith was using the squad to the best of his vastly experienced ability.

Like I said earlier, Boyd will score goals. It's that simple.

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 17:25
Boyd's days are numbered

spot on, I'm not sure why people always affix 'headless chicken to charge/run around. Some players do run around in a controlled manner closing other players down and making them make mistakes through hurried passes. It is very effective for some players....Paul Dickov wouldn't have had a career but for it. It is knowing when to close down and when not to bother, that is the trick.

ProudToComeFromTeesside Posted on 10/11/2010 17:27
Boyd's days are numbered

When I was a kid, players like Millsy and Hodgy were good at putting defenders under pressure. Similarly at Liverpool, Keegan and a few years later, Ian Rush. I read somewhere (think it was Willie Maddren's book), how when John Hickton first played up front, he was a great goalscorer but didn't do much else. By the time he got to his late twenties, he could do a good job as a target man. I think in fairness, prior to that, we had Hughie McIlmoyle who was one of the best target men ever to play for the club. Maybe Boyd could take a leaf out of Hickton's book and do a bit more graft. It wouldn't stop him scoring goals. It'd just be a case of adding more to his game.

Boromart Posted on 10/11/2010 17:41
Boyd's days are numbered

"I'd like to suggest that maybe it was because they usually changed formation/tactics for matches like that."
Agreed, against better teams. I don't think we have the personnel to really dominate and create lots of chances in this league at the moment. Maybe Mogga can sort that, but it's way too early to tell.

There are teams even in this league, like Swansea and Cardiff away, that you wouldn't want Boyd up front on his own, the ball will just come off him.

Two weeks ago the majority of people were on Boyds back. Now after 2 goals in 3 games most fans are right behind him. They change like the wind. I want to see a run of 10 games where he is scoring and not getting dragged off at half time.

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/11/2010 17:42
Boyd's days are numbered

Then there are some of us that have been behind him throughout.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 10/11/2010 17:49
Boyd's days are numbered

I wasn't one of those on his back, i've maintained from the day he signed that he will score goals.

It's the 'usual suspects' who were on his back, the same ones who are never happy unless they're slagging off Bailey or McMahon or Hoyte or Tavares... anyone who misplaces a pass to be honest.

Swansea and Cardiff away will be difficult places to go, but we won't be going there with the same mentality, or fear, Rangers had when they were off to Porto or Real Madrid.

If we play well in some of the more difficult away games this league has to offer then we will create more chances for Boyd than he would have had in the Champions League. If we play to our maximum in those games then we will probably pick something up. If Rangers played to their maximum in their European games they could still be on the end of a right tw*tting.

Boyd WILL score goals.

SplendidStuff Posted on 10/11/2010 19:31
Boyd's days are numbered

'Two weeks ago the majority of people were on Boyds back. Now after 2 goals in 3 games most fans are right behind him. They change like the wind.'

And then theres the likes of you, who will stick to an opinion, no matter how ridiculous it is.

skiprat Posted on 11/11/2010 01:07
Boyd's days are numbered

What's the difference between them leaving Boyd on the bench for European games and us doing it with Yakubu?

Boromart Posted on 11/11/2010 08:16
Boyd's days are numbered

SplendidStuff, you clearly haven't been reading my posts. IF I see a marked improvement over a decent run of games then I will change my mind. The first 10 games he was absolutely awful for us. He hasn't shown enough in the last 3 games to change that yet.

Why did we not play Yakubu in Europe? Totally different scenario we had THREE equally brilliant strikers in Yak, Vid and Jimmy. We couldn't accommodate them all at the same time. That is totally diff to Rangers dropping the guy that was by far their highest goalscorer.

ray192 Posted on 11/11/2010 08:48
Boyd's days are numbered

V_A_N

[^]

Adi_Dem Posted on 11/11/2010 10:49
Boyd's days are numbered

It's not that different acutally boromart.

Also, he wasn't absolutely awful in the first 10 games.