permalink for this thread : http://search.catflaporama.com/post/browse/2248506
MawTheMerrier Posted on 07/11/2010 09:55
Working for Benefits

I have always thought it was a huge waste of manpower to have people sat about doing nowt when they could be mobilised to do community work - say 4 hours a day. Would be good for their morale to be usefull to society.

Having been out of work myself many times, I know what its like and I believe this is a good idea.

What do the socialists on here think? Intelligent responses welcome.

deganya Posted on 07/11/2010 09:56
Working for Benefits

The socialists on here think your a dick !!

red_shamrock Posted on 07/11/2010 09:58
Working for Benefits

Did you do some community work when you were on the number 1,what did you do?

MawTheMerrier Posted on 07/11/2010 09:59
Working for Benefits

ganya - didnt you read the last bit of my post

I asked for intelligent repsonses only.

RedcarBlock53 Posted on 07/11/2010 09:59
Working for Benefits

Would probably help their self-asteem if it was worthwhile work.

MawTheMerrier Posted on 07/11/2010 10:00
Working for Benefits

Red I did some work in a school and it lifted my spirits.

Rodney1 Posted on 07/11/2010 10:02
Working for Benefits

I like the idea. Helping the elderly and infirm [^]

MawTheMerrier Posted on 07/11/2010 10:02
Working for Benefits

did some litter clean ups and planted trees

Helps your self worth.

Socialists arent really interested in helping people though, as I think they are really only interested in the class war and want to keep people down, so they can keep up the fight.

upthechels Posted on 07/11/2010 10:03
Working for Benefits

Depends what people are forced to do.

For example, If I were unemployed and had to decorate someones house because they were less fortunate than me then that would be fine. If I had to pick up other peoples litter then I'd be livid.

The principle is fine by me.

red_shamrock Posted on 07/11/2010 10:03
Working for Benefits

Wasnt spelling was it[:D].

What was it then and how many hours did you do?, plus I think you will find the said volunteers need to be insured and there work needs to be up to scratch and to a standard.

MawTheMerrier Posted on 07/11/2010 10:06
Working for Benefits

spent one afternoon a week teaching / helping kids do woodwork

I enjoyed it.

I didnt get paid, but thought at the time that maybe the govt should pay for such work rather than free hand outs.

r00fie Posted on 07/11/2010 10:09
Working for Benefits

Rodney the rodder..............elderly and infirm. YOU QUALIFY[cr][^][:X]

deganya Posted on 07/11/2010 10:11
Working for Benefits

"Socialists arent really interested in helping people though, as I think they are really only interested in the class war and want to keep people down, so they can keep up the fight."

You ask for intelligent comments yet spout drivel like that..... like I said, Socialists think your a dick and that is an intelligent reponse.

And for the record, I have done more volunteer work than you will ever do !


red_shamrock Posted on 07/11/2010 10:11
Working for Benefits

So you are a trained Joiner and Teacher,and if a kid slices his hand with a saw you were insured and fully responsible?

Rodney1 Posted on 07/11/2010 10:12
Working for Benefits

"I think you will find the said volunteers need to be insured and there work needs to be up to scratch and to a standard."

Don't think finding supervisors would be too difficult

BoroPhil Posted on 07/11/2010 10:14
Working for Benefits

the idea is fair enough, but why not pay them a wage instead of using them as slave labour?

MawTheMerrier Posted on 07/11/2010 10:14
Working for Benefits

Any working scheme would have to have the usual work related H&S in keeping with the law, I would expect.




Rodney1 Posted on 07/11/2010 10:15
Working for Benefits

"And for the record, I have done more volunteer work than you will ever do "

is there anything worse than someone who brags about the charity work they have done. [rle]

The work would obviously be unskilled labour, why people try and twist it any other way is ridiculous

red_shamrock Posted on 07/11/2010 10:17
Working for Benefits

Got to be up to scratch Rodney, a good Joiner would be to busy with guvvies if he was out of work. Only useless old gits who were no good on the tools would have a Teaching ticket and have that sort of inclination....supervise a lot of kids for nothing[:D].

Chisel Posted on 07/11/2010 10:17
Working for Benefits

good idea to get people out of the cycle of sitting at home scratching their heads when on dole, may help with self esteem interacting with others etc.
i would've done it when I was on the dole.
depends on what needs volounteer work it is.
can't please all of the people all of the time

Rodney1 Posted on 07/11/2010 10:20
Working for Benefits

They are getting a wage, their benefits.

Clearing out guttering, cutting grass (seasonl), sorting recycling, going to the shops, clearing snow (seasonal), weeding, litter picking, clearing graffiti, picking up dog poo, clearing beaches.

red_shamrock Posted on 07/11/2010 10:23
Working for Benefits

You need a ticket now just to use a ladder ffs ..you know very well in your game you need a ticket for everything, and how many would have slight accidents and put a claim in[:D].
Be awash with claims.

MawTheMerrier Posted on 07/11/2010 10:25
Working for Benefits

Red, I'm not a joiner just a 'master of no trades' handyman who was asked to help.[smi]

You make a good point about a guy with a trade is seldom without work. This is why I think its crucial to get young lads a skill, even when still at school. Same goes for prisoners. They spend a lot of time in gaol, so give em a trade in time for thier release.




Rodney1 Posted on 07/11/2010 10:25
Working for Benefits

A ticket for a ladder? Really? To erect a tower scaffold, yes, but not using a ladder.

BoroPhil Posted on 07/11/2010 10:25
Working for Benefits

"They are getting a wage, their benefits."

you think £50 for 30 hours work is reasonable?

red_shamrock Posted on 07/11/2010 10:28
Working for Benefits

Safe use of Ladders,I had to get that ticket to do some work in the Newcastle Chronical 2 months ago. Got more tickets than you can shake a stick at[:D]


Link: H&S

Ripley_11 Posted on 07/11/2010 10:29
Working for Benefits

So we would have a huge pool of people doing unskilled manual labour for less than the minimum wage. This would inevitably lead to less paid jobs and more people out of work. The type of work they could do without clearances would be incredibly limited. Charities working with the public, working in a school or care setting all need CRB clearance at £75 a pop!

Now if there is work out there available which wouldn't have a knock on effect of reducing jobs for unskilled people who really do want to work, great. Pay them the minimum wage for a 2-4 week placement.

Rodney1 Posted on 07/11/2010 10:32
Working for Benefits

But these jobs aren't being done. How would it put people out of work.

Which companies weed an elderly persons garden? Which companies sort their recycling?

Who said 30 hours work? Don't put words in my mouth. Is this restricted to JSA?

cheese_shop_john Posted on 07/11/2010 10:34
Working for Benefits

They get sixty quid a week so if they did one days work each week it would still be better than some get paid.

Should of done this years ago!

bryan_munich Posted on 07/11/2010 10:35
Working for Benefits

I think it's a good idea for the young/long term unemployed/benefit careerists so long as it doesn't remove actual jobs.

In the 80's when unemployment was rife and I was a young'un on the dole I ended up on some EEC sponsored scheme receiving £35 for doing 44 hours pw. Although grossly underpaid, this was miles better than being unemployed.

MawTheMerrier Posted on 07/11/2010 10:36
Working for Benefits

Pay them the minimum wage for a 2-4 week placement.
-----------
I agree with this one Rippers. 4 weeks on / 4 weeks off?


red_shamrock Posted on 07/11/2010 10:37
Working for Benefits

Those serving Criminal community service orders already do all this stuff.
Instead of three points for driving offence they should do 3000 hrs community service[:D]



Rodney1 Posted on 07/11/2010 10:38
Working for Benefits

2 days work £75 a week for your JSA/benefit. [^]

"Those serving Criminal community service orders already do all this stuff."

No they don't


red_shamrock Posted on 07/11/2010 10:42
Working for Benefits

Well I might be wrong[:D] what do they do?

BoroPhil Posted on 07/11/2010 10:43
Working for Benefits

"They get sixty quid a week so if they did one days work each week it would still be better than some get paid."

u-25's get £50/week and they are talking about 30hrs/week. That's £1.67/hr.

If there is work available, why not just offer them a proper job?


--------------------------------------------
"an unemployed person will be told to take up "mandatory work activity" of at least 30 hours a week for a four-week period. If they refuse or fail to complete the programme their jobseeker's allowance payments, currently £50.95 a week for those under 25 and £64.30 for those over 25, could be stopped for at least three months"

r00fie Posted on 07/11/2010 10:44
Working for Benefits

They should all help Ray Malon demolish peoples homes in Gresham and put tents for refugees on Stewart Park[^]

Rodney1 Posted on 07/11/2010 10:46
Working for Benefits

They sort recycling? They cut the grass of the elderly? They go to the shop for the elderly? Clear guttering?

They don't like. They might clear graffiti or clean out becks

Rodney1 Posted on 07/11/2010 10:47
Working for Benefits

What about the money they recieve before this 4 week period? Why not count that in?


red_shamrock Posted on 07/11/2010 10:48
Working for Benefits

COMMUNITY SERVICE ORDERS.
What sort of work may people do as part of their unpaid work?

There is a range of opportunities available, including working with voluntary organisations (where workers will be supervised by a member of the Organisation) and in work teams, supervised by Community Work Order Supervisors. Work teams carry out a range of tasks, including painting and decorating, gardening, landscaping and environmental projects, and furniture removals for a local charity.

Not all options will be available for everyone. The supervising officer will have to take into account the risk of someone offending again, what skills they have, when they can be available for unpaid work, and of course what places are currently available.




BoroPhil Posted on 07/11/2010 10:51
Working for Benefits

are we equating criminals and the unemployed here?

BoroAl Posted on 07/11/2010 10:54
Working for Benefits


the idea is fair enough, but why not pay them a wage instead of using them as slave labour?

I was gonna hammer this pathetic quote as they are ALREADY getting paid.But it seems I was beaten to ot by Rodders.

red_shamrock Posted on 07/11/2010 10:55
Working for Benefits

Not at all,just some people think a bloke who has paid in after being made redundant should do some work for nothing.. when its already being done by Criminals.
Instead of giving out points for motoring offences..lets work the bar$terds.


BoroPhil Posted on 07/11/2010 10:58
Working for Benefits

"I was gonna hammer this pathetic quote as they are ALREADY getting paid.But it seems I was beaten to ot by Rodders."

so you think £50 for 30hrs work isn't 'pathetic'?

r00fie Posted on 07/11/2010 11:00
Working for Benefits

This will be Camerons "Poll tax riots". Watch this space.[:(!][^]

Ripley_11 Posted on 07/11/2010 11:01
Working for Benefits

These jobs are being done Rodney! Councils have maintainence depts to keep pubic spaces clean and tidy, cut the grass etc. Sure you could some volunteers alongside, but would this then reduce the need for paid workers in this area?

If the government (job centres) send someone in to cut an old ladies grass, go shopping for her etc, they will need full CRB clearances (expensive) and will need supervision. You can't employ someone, even as a volunteer or on a back to work scheme, to work with vulnerable people without checks, clearances and supervision.

I'd say conservation work could be an area they could work in which is currently done by voluntary organisations and doesn't require a load of checks. Pay the minimum wage and show the long term claimants that it really is better for them to be in work. Or adult apprentiships etc.

Metaxa Posted on 07/11/2010 11:03
Working for Benefits

when i was unfortunate to be on income support, i spent every waking hour searching for a new job, so much so that i hardly slept and was writing cv's and cover letters in the early hours of the morning.

i was unemployed for 4 weeks in the end and recieved £110 in benefits, due to my searching and applying for everyjob i thought i could do i was not unemployed long enough to claim any credit card protection or loan protection so ended up for my first few months of employment in negative money.


the benefit system is a sham, i would pull all benefits for long term unemployed no matter what there circumstances, there is work there go get it you idle basterds

BoroPhil Posted on 07/11/2010 11:09
Working for Benefits

so if they don't find a job, and we pull their benefits, what happens to them? we have all these people living on the streets, starving? or would we round them all up and gas them?

Rodney1 Posted on 07/11/2010 11:09
Working for Benefits

"so you think £50 for 30hrs work isn't 'pathetic'?"

Are you forgetting about the numerous weeks they have picked up benefits for 0 hours work? This is not for someone out of work a fortnight but the long term unemployed

r00fie Posted on 07/11/2010 11:12
Working for Benefits

So all the ex steel workers on teesside should be rounded up to clear up schit in Grove Hill and St Hilders? Il watch you banging on their doors and telling them to get shovelling.[^]

red_shamrock Posted on 07/11/2010 11:12
Working for Benefits

Most people want to work, but there are few on here who think they are untouchable and would like good people to feel like second class citizens.
Look around you most people are hard working or want to be,but some people because of a few lazy buggers want everybody lobbed in the same pot and must take some satisfaction to see some people whose boots they couldnt lace feel some sort of humilation.
What do you get out of it?

What goes around


BoroAl Posted on 07/11/2010 11:15
Working for Benefits

This country has a benefit culture,as we all know.
People on benefits should be on a downward sliding scale relative to the amount of work they put into finding work.
Long term should then be made to work as stated above and it might reduce the taxes claimed by the government.

BoroPhil Posted on 07/11/2010 11:18
Working for Benefits

Where are you getting 'long-term' from, no mention of it here?

--------------------------------------------
"In return, where advisers believe a jobseeker would benefit from experiencing the "habits and routines" of working life, an unemployed person will be told to take up "mandatory work activity" of at least 30 hours a week for a four-week period. "
---------------------------------------------

Sounds like it could apply to anyone who is unemployed. If the council has a few XXXXXXty jobs which need doing, and since they've been forced to lay off half the workforce and have no-one to do it, they can now ring the job centre and get a few unemployed down to do it for £1.67/hr. Maybe even the people they laid off in the 1st place could do it? Perfect.




Link: Linky

Rodney1 Posted on 07/11/2010 11:23
Working for Benefits

"Where are you getting 'long-term' from, no mention of it here?"

The second word in the article.

Of course The Guardian doesn't have an agenda does it!

The jobs I'm mentioning arent being done. Nobody goes to an elderly persons house and sorts their recycling.
Fukk it should do everyones recycling if it's so important.

Clearing snow of peoples drives isn't done by councils.

Council tennants might get work done of 'their' houses but elderly people who own their own homes don't get these types of jobs done for them



Link: .....

sixtyniner69 Posted on 07/11/2010 11:24
Working for Benefits

no body should GET benefits

one 8hr day per week at minimum wage would benefit society, cut down on bogus claims, benefit the individual by providing work experience.

the whole thing can be run from the unemployed for the unemployed so no additional costs

unemployed mis skilled people can fill in small potholes and shovel snow in the winter

unemployed clerical people can provide clerical support

unused government offices and computers can be reused

unemployed managers can manage

unemployed secutity staff can guard the staff

unemployed computer staff can run the computers


nothing fancy simple little jobs for 1 day a week at minimum wages

billdoor Posted on 07/11/2010 11:25
Working for Benefits

I've been unemployed for six weeks now and I'd love to be ordered to go round clearing people's sh1te off the streets, especially after paying NI and taxes for the last 14 years[^]

I should also point out that I've spent a good 30 hours this week actually searching for jobs myself. I'll clean out gutters though whilst people sit at work reading FMTTM[^]

One other thing is the amount of organisation and paperwork this would entail, not to mention supervision. It'd cost more to run than you'd get out of it.

Sitrep Posted on 07/11/2010 11:26
Working for Benefits

But this is not new is it? The last government had already brought this scheme in, Stockton council have “unemployed” street cleaners who do 3 months at a time, whilst making full time staff redundant. Just expect a lot more council workers to be made redundant.

upthechels Posted on 07/11/2010 11:26
Working for Benefits

A sliding scale is good.

1-6 you should be helped to find work that suits your career path. Alongside it help with basics such as CV's and basic computing that can be used for job search and in employment.

6-24 months you should be given a training programme that helps you stay up to date in your own profession or find an alternative career if needed.

24 months we reach a cut off point where community work is to be carried out until work is found.

After 2 years local business should be offered incentives for taking on the long term unemployed.

The scroungers wouldn't find life so easy anymore and the honest would be given hope.

Rodney1 Posted on 07/11/2010 11:29
Working for Benefits

"One other thing is the amount of organisation and paperwork this would entail, not to mention supervision. It'd cost more to run than you'd get out of it."

Isn't that called job creation? You against that too.

I'm not saying I agree with the 30 hours or that people who have been out of work for under 6-9 months should be doing this sort of work.

"I've been unemployed for six weeks now and I'd love to be ordered to go round clearing people's sh1te off the streets"

Don't do it don't get benefit. Nobody forces you into it.

BoroPhil Posted on 07/11/2010 11:32
Working for Benefits

that's just their take on it though, if you actually read the quotes there is no mention of long-term so it could easily apply to anyone. and if you think this scheme wouldn't expand to cover jobs that used to be done by proper paid workers you are deluded. it would create a nice little under-class getting paid a pittance to do whatever job the government wants. or you can starve. lovely.

r00fie Posted on 07/11/2010 11:32
Working for Benefits

Same old crap. Blame the unemployed for being jobless, not capitalism that create`s it.blame the poor for being poor, not the rich. Blame the starving for being hungry.Blame the ill for being unwell. Blame the homeless for being homeless.

red_shamrock Posted on 07/11/2010 11:33
Working for Benefits

A skilled bloke will just guvvie or go self employed and not claim and pay little or no tax on whatever you earn.
Working for nothing Volunteering is stupid when you can turn your time into money.

Rodney1 Posted on 07/11/2010 11:34
Working for Benefits

"that's just their take on it though, if you actually read the quotes there is no mention of long-term so it could easily apply to anyone. and if you think this scheme wouldn't expand to cover jobs that used to be done by proper paid workers you are deluded. it would create a nice little under-class getting paid a pittance to do whatever job the government wants. or you can starve. lovely"

Here comes the paranoia!

r00fie Posted on 07/11/2010 11:36
Working for Benefits

Its not "paranoia2 Rodney. Look in the dictionary and you might read the definition. Its reality. Something you might like to get a grip on[V]

Rodney1 Posted on 07/11/2010 11:38
Working for Benefits

"Blame the unemployed for being jobless, not capitalism that create`s it.blame the poor for being poor, not the rich. Blame the starving for being hungry.Blame the ill for being unwell. Blame the homeless for being homeless."

Some of the unemployed don't want to work

Nobody in this country is starving

Some people claiming incapacity benefit aren't ill

Nobody in the UK needs to be homeless. Some people choose to live on the street.

It's reality?? Something you clearly know nothing about. Give me an example of when this has happened then? It hasn't and doesn't. Get a grip

billdoor Posted on 07/11/2010 11:40
Working for Benefits

"Isn't that called job creation? You against that too."

Yes, I'm sure the government will be well up for creating jobs all over the country like that. Good thing they're not trying to cut costs.

"Don't do it don't get benefit. Nobody forces you into it."

Er.... so you do sh1tty jobs or you don't get any benefit? Sounds like forcing to me.

"I'm not saying I agree with the 30 hours or that people who have been out of work for under 6-9 months should be doing this sort of work."

That, I agree with. This kind of 'scheme' should only be targeted at those who refuse to find work long-term when they're able. Saying that any poor fecker who's been made redundant should do it is poor.

MawTheMerrier Posted on 07/11/2010 11:42
Working for Benefits

Sliding scale idea sounds good. Help for the short term genuine claimants.

I have a cousin who is 50 and he has never worked. It was his ambition never to work.

Nobody can defend this I'm sure. Its immoral.

Rodney1 Posted on 07/11/2010 11:44
Working for Benefits

Don't be too sure Maw.

Cassies family have a load of dead beats who have no ambition to work never have but know how much money they are 'entitled' too and are faster than schit off a stick to ring social if 'their' money is slightly wrong. Never if its over mind you.

Still r00fie and the rest of the liberals will tell me its ok

Zelig Posted on 07/11/2010 11:46
Working for Benefits

So when they do this community service will they be working alongside criminals? How will they be any different from criminals currently doing this work? Treating the unemployed like criminals sounds like it could be really good for their self esteem.

What work will they be doing? Won't this put people currently employed to do this work out of work?

'Maybe they could help the elderly & infirm' Would you really want someone who has no interest in being there looking after your grandmother? And again what happens to the people currently employed to look after the elderly & infirm, pick up litter, paint fences, etc?

I think you need to go back to the drawing board with your half baked idea.

BoroAl Posted on 07/11/2010 11:48
Working for Benefits

Rodney,you just posted a word in your last one.
"Entitled"
That is exactly the problem.The long term ers,are "entitled" to benefits,even though they have paid jackXXXXXX towards their entitlement.That's what boils my XXXXXX.

red_shamrock Posted on 07/11/2010 11:48
Working for Benefits

Maybe we should pay for everything and even backdate it 20 or 30 year, kids Primary and secondary education, Hospital treatment, make parents pay for their children being brought into the world and then subsidised.
A lot of people havent paid enough taxes to expect these things.Maybe we should start sending out back dated bills.

Rodney1 Posted on 07/11/2010 11:49
Working for Benefits

No Zelig you need to read the thread. Jobs, I've posted, for them to do aren't being carried out.

Rodney1 Posted on 07/11/2010 11:51
Working for Benefits

Why are you changing the subject r_s?

BoroAl Posted on 07/11/2010 11:51
Working for Benefits

Red again you have posted a very relevant word,"taxes".Unless I am mistaken benefit payments are not subject to taxes,so again,how does that "entitle" them to said payments.

Zelig Posted on 07/11/2010 11:53
Working for Benefits

So why don't the government pay people a decent wage to do these jobs that aren't being done instead of treating the unemployed like cheap labour?

Maybe we should have chain gangs & prisoners can do these jobs you want doing.

BoroAl Posted on 07/11/2010 11:54
Working for Benefits

Because they have to pay benefits and that's why they can't afford to pay them a decent wage.Repeat.

red_shamrock Posted on 07/11/2010 11:58
Working for Benefits

Maybe Iam trying to embrace Conservative philosophy or do I seem angry at the World..is it such a fine line?[:D]

Zelig Posted on 07/11/2010 11:59
Working for Benefits

Maybe they should just kill everyone over the age of 65 or stop providing free education to people or kill anyone convicted of a crime or stop providing free healthcare to everyone. They'd save a fortune.

Rodney1 Posted on 07/11/2010 12:01
Working for Benefits

Free Education

Free Healthcare

Utterly fukking clueless

"So why don't the government pay people a decent wage to do these jobs "

Because some stupid fukking asswipes spent the lot and left the cupboard bare

r00fie Posted on 07/11/2010 12:01
Working for Benefits

"Some people choose to live on the streets". Like ex-soldiers who are suffering ptsd or kids chucked out by their parents or those who have lost their jobs. You wouldnt last a night on the slabs. Try not having any clean clothes, a wash basin or warmth or your computer. You havent lived.

BoroAl Posted on 07/11/2010 12:03
Working for Benefits

Zelig
Point A.talked about,Euthanasia.
B Doing that now with uni fee increases
c If it's serious eniugh
D they are doing that as well.Pushing private health care.

Rodney1 Posted on 07/11/2010 12:03
Working for Benefits

The first word roof!!! 'SOME' [rle]

If you watched the BBC programme life Without Work, there was a lad without work living in a hostel whilst a lad who had a off on job lived in a tent.

Don't stereotype everyone, it doesn't suit you

The soldiers should be getting help fromthe MoD and the government.

There is no need for ANYONE to be homeless in this country


r00fie Posted on 07/11/2010 12:05
Working for Benefits

ditto!

red_shamrock Posted on 07/11/2010 12:06
Working for Benefits

We expect everybody to pay for our kids Education from primary school right through to 6th form and even subsidise them.

About time we started billing them..cheeky buggers pay next to bugger all in and get a shed load out..does anybody pay the real cost?.

And there are endless other benefits that are subsidised..there must be more[:D]

Iam starting to see were the Tories are coming from[:D]

Zelig Posted on 07/11/2010 12:07
Working for Benefits

Lol you think your tax contribution pays for your children's education or your elderly relative's free healthcare? You really are naive.

This politics of envy blaming the unemployed for all this country's woes & treating them like leeches & no better than criminals will one day lead to people without children or elderly relatives saying "why should our taxes pay for free education or free healthcare".

Rodney1 Posted on 07/11/2010 12:18
Working for Benefits

There's that word 'free' again before healthcare and education.

I wasn;t aware teachers and nurses worked for 'free'. That medical suppliers gave drugs and machines away. Silly me.

Would you like to tell me where the cost of treatment if you go into hospital comes from? We'll see how much you really know on the subject

r00fie Posted on 07/11/2010 12:21
Working for Benefits

Privatise health care. Thatl save us loads of money so we can bail out private banks and pay for armaments and bombs [^][:D]

Zelig Posted on 07/11/2010 12:34
Working for Benefits

And make sure we have the most up to date nuclear bomb.

I know an individuals tax contribution doesn't cover the cost of their children's education or their elderly relatives healthcare (unless you're claiming to be one of the super rich).

Paying taxes for welfare, prisons, education, healthcare, etc is the price you pay for living in a civilised society & something the people of this country decided to do centuries ago. If you don't like it & would prefer to just look after yourself leave but before you go can you please pay this country back for all the education, healthcare & protection you & your family have received. Thanks.

Rodney1 Posted on 07/11/2010 12:38
Working for Benefits

"If you don't like it & would prefer to just look after yourself leave... "

If you want socialist utopia then I think you are the one who will be leaving! China or Cuba grab you? Maybe north Korea or Vietnam eh [:D]

"I know an individuals tax contribution doesn't cover the cost of their children's education or their elderly relatives healthcare "

Utter fukking garbage.

"Paying taxes for welfare, prisons, education, healthcare, etc is the price you pay for living in a civilised society "

Its not 'free' then is it!!!

Zelig Posted on 07/11/2010 12:43
Working for Benefits

You think providing people with welfare, education & healthcare is a socialist utopia. I think it is the hallmark of a grown up society who understands it is only as strong as its weakest member. Jealousy & greed is the hallmark of a child so maybe one day you'll grow up & become an adult who appreciates why we should be proud that we have a welfare state, free education & healthcare instead of envious of the people who use these services.

Just out of curiosity do your eye brow ridges still bother you or have you learnt to ignore them Rodney?

red_shamrock Posted on 07/11/2010 12:44
Working for Benefits

A solicialist utopia is the UK no need for Cuba etc, we look after everybody at a subsidised rate.

number9 Posted on 07/11/2010 12:48
Working for Benefits

If you can provide work then give them a job with a real wage.

Working for benifits is morraly wrong.

Zelig Posted on 07/11/2010 12:50
Working for Benefits

Agree 100% [^]

Using the unemployed as cheap labour will just lead to employers paying lower wages & will put the people currently employed to do the work out of work.

Rodney1 Posted on 07/11/2010 12:54
Working for Benefits

There is not enough money in the pot. Somebody spunked it all.

Nce of the left to degenerate to their usual namecalling comfort zone.

Using the word 'free' again. Its only 'free to those who have never contributed.

A society where people take and put nothing back in isn't civilised. A society that allows rapists and paedophiles out on the street to re-offend isn;t civilised. Your definition of civilised is very different to mine.

Stealing from people without ever contributing? Is that not morally wrong?

red_shamrock Posted on 07/11/2010 12:55
Working for Benefits

Not all Employers are that
unscrupulous,majority have helped build this Country.

red_shamrock Posted on 07/11/2010 12:59
Working for Benefits

Subsidised[^] opt out and use Private education for your Children Iam sure there will be a Tax incentive.

I cant pay for everybodies kids at a reduced rate[:D]

Rodney1 Posted on 07/11/2010 12:59
Working for Benefits

"Using the unemployed as cheap labour will just lead to employers paying lower wages & will put the people currently employed to do the work out of work."

The paranoia is back. The minimum wage anyone? [rle]

Zelig Posted on 07/11/2010 12:59
Working for Benefits

We live in a dog eat dog world. For every winner there is a loser in this capitalist system where business takes the cream & leaves the rest to fend for themselves. Every time someone gets a job someone else misses out so why shouldn't the 'lucky ones' contribute to the unlucky ones.

I'm all for a system of full employment where everyone is given opportunities no matter their level of ability but unfortunately that's not the system we live under (a system these 'unlucky ones' had no say in choosing).

It is morally right to support the people left behind by this capitalist system & is a price worth paying.

And I suspect if people without children or elderly relatives started saying they no longer wanted to contribute to the education & healthcare of others you'd be against that & that makes you a hypocrite.

red_shamrock Posted on 07/11/2010 13:02
Working for Benefits

Theres always some bugger wanting Shamrock to pay for things he aint using..Jobless, Young Families...dear me give me a break and go private. your as bad as each other.[:D]

pea_brain Posted on 07/11/2010 13:08
Working for Benefits

what if ye a contactor.........n work 70/80 hours a week for 8 or 9 months of the year like me, do you seriously expect me t get up n go n work for free for the three months that av got a rest which av earned?? dont be so ridiculous

adelfsmitler Posted on 07/11/2010 13:26
Working for Benefits

a very apt name,,,,,pea brain,,,for such a reply!!

pea_brain Posted on 07/11/2010 13:34
Working for Benefits

tell me wots wrong with it

adelfsmitler Posted on 07/11/2010 13:39
Working for Benefits

if you think youve earned,,,,this so called rest....use your own hard earned cash to fund it then....

pea_brain Posted on 07/11/2010 13:46
Working for Benefits

when ive paid 40 per cent tax all year and being away from home think im entitled to get something back out of it and i get my stamp paid so why shouldnt i sign on

MawTheMerrier Posted on 07/11/2010 13:47
Working for Benefits

pea brain [LOVE]

love yer posts

if yer working 7-/80 hrs a week then you must have earned a grand a week at least so no need to benefits. or are you a junior doctor? [:D]

squarewheelbike Posted on 07/11/2010 13:50
Working for Benefits

The whole concept is moronic. It'll take away jobs and add to the umemployed.

BTW Socialism is about lifting everybody up, only right wing nutjobs believe otherwise.

adelfsmitler Posted on 07/11/2010 13:52
Working for Benefits

40% tax boooo hoooo ...it`s your choice mate..

neworder Posted on 07/11/2010 13:55
Working for Benefits

heres what one socialist thinks. I hope all you crony capitalists can agree with me and follow the truly positive logic of this heroic shift in public policy.

The government finds work for the unemployed to do to be part of society, lift morale and be usefull.

Applying the rule of law we will now call this benefit that is worked for, "work".

The government pledges all legal rights and conditions to such work as we dont want to create a slave society as in The Soviet Union.

In time we establish a social contract that aspires to create full employment as a condition or inailiable human right in an advanced society.

Lets give this new and expanded society a new name to replace the clunky explanation required (workfare or welfare to work etc)

Lets call it Socialism




adelfsmitler Posted on 07/11/2010 14:00
Working for Benefits

wish i had the contract to supply all the health and safety gear.....

MawTheMerrier Posted on 07/11/2010 14:07
Working for Benefits

Yer not far off there with that description. True socialism should be about, in effect, abolishing unemployment. Not allowing it to fester in sink estates.

Im all for that [^]

number9 Posted on 07/11/2010 14:11
Working for Benefits

there is no way anyone would call me a lefty but to create a job and then expect some to work in that job for less than the minimum wage is wrong.

So what happens is that the bloke/blokette that currently sweeps the streets for minimum wage is made redundant. They then sign on and end up doing the job they were just made redundant from for less money?

Wrong in every way. If they can "create" a job for the unemployed them make it a REAL job not some fictitious half job that will allow them to “manipulate” the unemployment figures.

As for paying tax, we all pay it so that we may enjoy the fruits and benefits of the collective contribution. I have always paid my tax in good times and bad, why? Because I like to drive on tarmac roads, I like to be able to see a doctor that was educated in a half decent school. I like the security of a Police force, ambulance, mountain rescue, coast guard and fire service. I like street lights when I walk down the street on a night and I like my rubbish disposed of safely. I like the many many other things my tax £'s pay for as well.

If you don't want to pay tax then move to a third world country like Nigeria or any other north African state and enjoy the life and facilities that not paying tax brings.

Muppets

squarewheelbike Posted on 07/11/2010 14:13
Working for Benefits

It's getting to that time of year when I always read A Christmas Carol. Probably one of the greatest pieces of socialist literature ever. "Mankind should have been my business"

God bless us everyone!

Rodney1 Posted on 07/11/2010 14:21
Working for Benefits

Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith's proposals for a universal credit to replace the range of benefits currently claimed by the jobless.

He has said the plans are designed to reduce welfare dependency and make work pay.

He said: "One thing we can do is pull people in to do one or two weeks' manual work - turn up at 9am and leave at 5pm, to give people a sense of work, but also when we think they're doing other work.

"The message will go across: play ball or it's going to be difficult."


The message will go across; play ball or it's going to be difficult.

Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith

Cabinet minister Liam Fox told Sky News the Government was "determined" to get people into work.

"One in six children are growing up in households where nobody works," he said.

"Receiving benefits for long periods is bad for society as a whole and bad for individuals.

"You have children growing up in many homes where there is no work ethic, no experience of the workplace, and we have to give people that experience."

Labour shadow minister and former leadership candidate Diane Abbott told Sky News's Sunday Live: "Of course, most people on benefits are not scroungers, but there is a real issue here.

"I come across people in my constituency who have just got out of the habit of work, either because they have been on something like incapacity benefit too long or they are young people who have never worked.

"In principle, getting people used to the routine of work is a good thing. The problem is that companies, public and private, don't want to take people who don't want to work.

"So the difficulty is placing the people constructively, but I understand the idea behind it."

[^][^][^][^][^][^][^]


squarewheelbike Posted on 07/11/2010 14:23
Working for Benefits

Cutting 500,000 jobs doesn't exactly help matters does it!

pea_brain Posted on 07/11/2010 14:24
Working for Benefits

yes a did as it happens, but why shouldnt i get something back out of the tax that ive paid and get me stamps paid?? i go to work to make a living for myself not dole wollers and lazy XXXXXXs who dont work at all and by the way....if ther was work at this time of year id be working but im not going to lower my wage to keep the job centre happy XXXXXX em ill take what im entitled to

adelfsmitler Posted on 07/11/2010 14:24
Working for Benefits

"Go down to the butcher's in the next street," he said, "and bring me back the biggest turkey in the shop. Yes, that's right, gordn strachan. Get the man to come back with you so that i can tell him where to take it - and I'll give you a bucket of XXXXXX in return!"


neworder Posted on 07/11/2010 14:26
Working for Benefits

Maw, i have come to the opinion that many of so called social problems are left to fester because it easier for the government just to ignore them because it involves stirring up the shyt so to speak.
Heres an example.
My girlfriend who is a wise Glaswegian has constantly told me that the Junkies and Alcoholics are left alone and given whatever they want from the benefits people. I took this as a random belief until i saw it in action whilst i have ahd a period out of work and tried to claim benefits.
I sat down and thought really hard about this as to why this should be, why are the addicts dealt with less severely than everyone else?
Like a blinding flash of light the answerbecame apparent.
Its far cheaper to give the addicts a there Incapacity benefit and DLA than to actually build and resource centres that would return them to society. And if Addicts were returned in good health to mainstream society what chance would there be of them finding employment say in South Bank or Easterhouse? chances are that they would return to the problems that existed before they turned to substances and they would fail again. Back to square one.
After all many addicts will be removed by overdose and ill health anyway.
I can just see them cowards (of this government and that last shower of shyt)sat round the cabinet table discussing this and other problems coming to the easy solutions that never explore why people are unemployed, depressed, addicted or just a fecking nuisance.
Put enough Rats in a cage and they will start to eat each other

MawTheMerrier Posted on 07/11/2010 14:32
Working for Benefits

N9. I agree with everything you said about tax, but.... do you want your taxes spent wisely or wasted? Your taxes are there to help people, not to provide a lifetime of underachievement.

Thats the main issue for me, its a wasted life if you dont help people out of perpetual benefits. I guess its the methodology thats in question.

neworder Posted on 07/11/2010 14:44
Working for Benefits

Maw let me throw this your way, im a red but i know that being on benefits is truly unhealthy in every respect to the person to society to their family. The question that anyone on here should be asking is why should this sitauation be allowed to continue?
Think about it during the last world war unemployment was wiped out at a stroke the country came together and reworked society into something that was fit for a purpose.If then why not now. After all the poor the weak the chavocracy of this country arent running the show and they certainly dont hold the resources that can redirect our country.

Zelig Posted on 07/11/2010 16:42
Working for Benefits

The way to resolve worklessness is for a government to create meaningful jobs for its citizens not blame them for losing out within a capitalist dog eat dog system & have them picking up litter as a punishment.

If there is gardening & litter collection to be done then the government should pay people a wage for them to do it not pay them 37% of the minimum wage under the pretense of 'helping them back to work'.

Some people on here seem to equate being unemployed with breaking the law so they're happy to treat them like criminals but just to be clear the only people who will suffer from these proposals are law abiding citizens who have refused to turn to crime despite not having a job. The criminal element will just burgle one more house a month or sell a few more drugs to make up for the lost benefits when they refuse to jump through this particular hoop & have their benefits cut for 3 months.

For every job vacancy there are currently 5 unemployed people in this country so anyone who thinks paying for the unemployed is unacceptable should petition their employer to introduce a four day week, job share scheme or to reduce their working hours so there are more jobs available. What do you mean you're not willing to lose some of your hours & wages just so unemployed people can have work too. Shame on you I thought you said you cared about getting people back to work. [:P]

Hercules Posted on 07/11/2010 17:01
Working for Benefits

I haven't read the whole thread but...what Zelig said.

Spot on.

HarryVegas Posted on 07/11/2010 17:19
Working for Benefits

This whole debate is plain wrong. Seems our society (remember that? It's what Thatcherites don't believe in) has been drawn into believing our problems have been created by the unemployed. By the governments own figures, 90% of people who go onto benefits come off them within 6 months.

Did the unemployed cause the current recession? Factually, no. The problem was caused by the decisions of the financial sector - ie the richest in our country, a lot of which don't even pay taxes.

So shall we start this again, and this time lay off the poorest?

Zelig Posted on 07/11/2010 17:24
Working for Benefits

They are just an easy target Harry. The poorest in society don't have a voice within the media or lobbyists in the ears of politicians. People on here don't live next to people with offshore accounts for tax avoidance purposes but they all seem to know at least one person who has failed to succeed within this capitalist system & seemingly given up & now they want to punish them with a vengeance.

They see headlines like 'stop their benefits' & think 'yeah that's a good idea' without thinking of the consequences of people having no money to buy food with & slogans like 'work for your dole' without thinking about what will happen to the jobs of people who are currently employed to pick up litter & do gardening work.

number9 Posted on 07/11/2010 17:49
Working for Benefits

"If there is gardening & litter collection to be done then the government should pay people a wage for them to do it not pay them 37% of the minimum wage under the pretense of 'helping them back to work'."

Spot on. the worker deserves his/her wage. fair days work fair days pay. Simple.

perryboy Posted on 07/11/2010 18:18
Working for Benefits

have,nt heard the full story yet. what do they class as long term ? could be a good thing could be bad. those who dont go loose benefit and turn to crime !got to keep there money coming in from somewhere !force them into work ? whats that all about ? taking jobs for buttons to make someone else rich ?

Zelig Posted on 07/11/2010 18:38
Working for Benefits

That about sums it up.

If govt were saying the long term unemployed will do either training, college course or work experience in an area of work they're interested in or have skills in then it might actually help the unemployed get back into work but unfortunately that costs money & isn't humiliating enough so it's just going to be the same work criminals do on community service projects.

joebolton Posted on 07/11/2010 18:41
Working for Benefits

what do they class as long term ?

The "WORK PROGRAMME" is aimed at those aged 18-24 unemployed for 6 months, and the over 25's unemployed for a year.
It will affect only 25% of under 25 claimers and about 1 in 10 over 25's.
I think what will be more interesting will be finding work placements for the 1 million plus moved over from ESA/Incap.

sixtyniner69 Posted on 07/11/2010 18:50
Working for Benefits

i would certainly join a demo against the unemployed being forced to work more than 1 day a week

1 day a week or 2 half days i believe is fair for jobs not currently being done like filling in small potholes or clearing the snow from paths[^]

this 30hr a week seems like a tory ploy to get work on the cheap and would undermine existing jobs[rle]

Zelig Posted on 07/11/2010 18:57
Working for Benefits

So you think getting an unemployed I.T. professional who may have lost a bit of confidence & may need a refresher course in some of the latest software packages to clear snow or fill potholes will help him get back into work do you? No you just want some potholes & snow cleared on the cheap. Pity you can't just import someone from the Africas to do it for free like in the good old days.

Despite your claims if any of you black shirt wannabes really cared about helping the unemployed back into work you'd be asking your employers for a pay cut or for a reduction in your hours so they could employ more staff & petitioning the government to create jobs & training opportunities for the unemployed instead of expecting the unemployed to become cheap labour but as this quote proves 'this 30hr a week seems like a tory ploy to get work on the cheap and would undermine existing jobs' all you really care about is yourselves.

boro74 Posted on 07/11/2010 21:08
Working for Benefits

I haven't read the whole thread. But I think work is work. You should be paid at least the minimum wage for doing it.

ThePrisoner Posted on 07/11/2010 21:41
Working for Benefits

FFS why does this government stop messing about? Re-open the workhouses now! Get the dregs in there and use them pour encourage les autres!

This is what Cameron, Osbourne, Duncan-Smith and all the other multi-millionaire reactionaries want. Cowed working class drones who live in fear. They would call it 'the good old days'.

degsyspesh Posted on 07/11/2010 22:24
Working for Benefits

Provided you only have to work the hours that would equate to minimum wage for the benefits that you receive then I can't see the problem.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 07/11/2010 22:27
Working for Benefits

"Nobody in this country is starving"

Rodney, you do come out with some really offensive, badly-researched and nonsensical stuff on threads like these.



Zelig Posted on 07/11/2010 23:48
Working for Benefits

'Provided you only have to work the hours that would equate to minimum wage for the benefits that you receive then I can't see the problem.'

Maybe they should make everyone in the country unemployed & then they can force them to work for 37% of the minimum wage then I can't see the problem.

Metaxa Posted on 07/11/2010 23:52
Working for Benefits

i think sometimes the desicion should be taken away from people and the job centre should allocate jobs for long term unemployed, and if that means painting fences so be it, a few weeks off the system may be enough to get them a full time job

Zelig Posted on 07/11/2010 23:57
Working for Benefits

And what happens to the people currently being paid to do these jobs? Do they join the dole queue & then do the job for their dole cheque instead of a wage?

'It may only take them a couple of weeks to find a full-time job' Are you for real? There are currently 5 unemployed people for every vacancy in this country so how exactly will they get full-time jobs in a couple of weeks?

degsyspesh Posted on 08/11/2010 00:00
Working for Benefits

"And what happens to the people currently being paid to do these jobs?"

I think that the point is that they would be doing jobs that aren't currently being done.....

Ideologically I think that it's right - can't see it working in practice mind...

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 08/11/2010 00:46
Working for Benefits

If the country needs jobs doing the country should provide the wage for them. Simple. There's plenty of money out there.

offside-again Posted on 08/11/2010 06:10
Working for Benefits

Yeah can really see this working however you slice it up it is not going to work.

The people who are lazy sods will just end up going on the sick(they will claim 'depression' or 'severe anxiety') both of which can not be proved one way or the other. Or the lazy ones who have some criminal element to them will just up there crime.

They should at least say they will double the benefits, then it will seem quite attractive to do this scheme but at the same time will encourage them to find a proper job too.

This idea is just trying to back people into a corner and generally if you do that to people they will jump over your head and do one elsewhere ie: they will go out robbing or selling drugs.

At least give em a tenner a day for it FFS.
[B)]

upthechels Posted on 08/11/2010 06:33
Working for Benefits

That's the reality of the situation.

sixtyniner69 Posted on 08/11/2010 07:26
Working for Benefits

"So you think getting an unemployed I.T. professional who may have lost a bit of confidence & may need a refresher course in some of the latest software packages to clear snow or fill potholes will help him get back into work do you?"

in a word yes

and many years ago as a manager and IT pro i was out of work, and homeless. ending up returning to this country after working for a government agency abroad having been backed into a corner of breaaking the law or resigning, i resigned.

i actively resisted getting the jobs that was offered ( because they were all the cr4ppy ones )until i could get access to the internet and sort myself out. ( internet access was not easy , i got access via the job seekers scheme at 4 months)

i was up every day and could have easily done 1 day a week, i actually got no benefits but did get my stamp only.

but yes i would have worked for my benefit as it was i was in a position which is far worse than most have ever been in.

coluka Posted on 08/11/2010 07:37
Working for Benefits

Some people definitely need a kick up the backside sadly, however it seems a stupid time to try it as 490K public sector workers are losing their jobs, whether by natural wastage or by P45, those jobs are lost.

More people on the dole - private sector jobs will be low wage or part time in the main - hardly replacements,

My solution is to allow people to retire earlier, not later this will free up real jobs for younger people. The cost of retirement pension will be mainly offset by reduced Job Seekers payments etc. The balance will be met by savings in public expenditure and increased revenues through taxation as more people at the younger end in work and older people will generally be happy to pay their taxes

Additionally, If Younger people have jobs availability, when they are in work and earning they are contributing to the economy, less likely to cause Anti-Social Behaviour as they have less personal time and an increased income. This will lead to less spending of public monies by councils cleaning up damage, grafitti etc and reduced policing etc The economy will benefit.

Add a type of National service (needn't necessarily be in the military)- say 2 yrs, this will help teach RESPECT to younger numptee's and hopefully society will improve

Simples really - Coluka for President [^]

Zelig Posted on 08/11/2010 09:11
Working for Benefits

'I think that the point is that they would be doing jobs that aren't currently being done'

So what's stopping employers from laying off all the low skilled workers in the country or more realistically deciding not to employ low skilled workers in the first place knowing that the unemployed will then be forced to do this work that's not currently being done?

If there are jobs within society that need to be done then people should be employed to do that work for a proper wage not for 37% of the minimum wage.

SYDNEYSIDER Posted on 08/11/2010 10:14
Working for Benefits

Exactly Zelig! If there are jobs that need doing, pay people to do them.
Also how can you be actively looking for "proper work" if your out working for nothing.

raglasher Posted on 08/11/2010 11:32
Working for Benefits

Make everybody self employed then if the lazy sods dont work guess what they get no money.The self employed have to do a fair job or they get no work, the people who cant work have to be looked after. I was self employed for nearly 40 years and guess what i didnt call in [i have cold ]. I have read some right crap on here mostly excuses by the work shy. I have voted Labour all my life except this last time LIB-DEM NEVER NEVER TORY.

Zelig Posted on 08/11/2010 11:48
Working for Benefits

'Make everybody self employed then if the lazy sods dont work guess what they get no money.'

Yeah great solution. What exactly happens to these people who get no money in your great plan?

Do they starve to death or do they turn to crime & house burglaries, shop lifting & car theft go up sending your insurance premiums through the roof & making everything more expensive to buy as companies try to cover the losses from shrinkage.

deganya Posted on 08/11/2010 12:25
Working for Benefits

well mr ragslasher, you voted lib dem, now tell me which lib dem policys have been impliemented? All I see are tory policies attacking the poor sick and disabled whilst letting the rich off with their fat tax breaks. I hope you are pleased with your wasted vote !!

southgatesotherelbow Posted on 08/11/2010 12:39
Working for Benefits

A very good idea by the Government.

Working for their benefits, simple, effective and to the point.

Who knows if they do well in the work schemes they may be offered a permanent position with said employer.

With all the nastyness coming from the left this weekend it strikes me that the Labour Party have rebranded themselves as the party for the non working man.

I suspect a fair few of the malingerers on here are getting a bit worried...me thinks their pips are starting to squeak[:D]

oooooo Posted on 08/11/2010 12:53
Working for Benefits

What employer is going to offer a full-time contract to someone they have been able to get to pick up dog XXXXXX for free?

I don't care how little you feel about someone who is out of work, when you work - you should get paid.

speckyget Posted on 08/11/2010 12:58
Working for Benefits

"A very good idea by the Government."

I take it you're referring to the previous Labour Government, who kicked this off in August 2009.


oooooo Posted on 08/11/2010 13:02
Working for Benefits

Specky, do you have any link to that? I was wondering if I had heard it before!

speckyget Posted on 08/11/2010 13:04
Working for Benefits

It's on the Internet.


Link: Why, it's even privatised...

Borocelt Posted on 08/11/2010 13:10
Working for Benefits

30 hours a week for £65.

I wonder which other countries pay a similar wage for unskilled labour.

southgatesotherelbow Posted on 08/11/2010 13:14
Working for Benefits

Oooo they are being paid... people keep bandying around the JSA figures what about the rent and council tax... NI contributions, child benefit etc etc that many of these career doleites get... it can add up to 20k a year in somecases more than some of the posters on here get as a yearly salary!

oooooo Posted on 08/11/2010 13:28
Working for Benefits

No, they aren't being paid.

If you are on the dole and get a job, you get the money paid direct to you. Giving them some meaningless job breaking rocks and then telling them their 'pay' is included in their benefits a: doesn't give them any of the benefits of having a job and b: doesn't wean them of their dependency on the state.

Midosparmo Posted on 08/11/2010 13:34
Working for Benefits

They may see the benefit of having a better job if they have to break rocks.
The trouble is they cant see the benefit of having a job at all, when they get paid to do nowt.

southgatesotherelbow Posted on 08/11/2010 13:36
Working for Benefits

Oooo disagree they are being paid... as stated earlier. the JSA figure is the cash they get to use on whatever they want... what about all the other payments they receive that all add up.

JSA, Child Benefit, Rent, Council Tax, etc etc

That adds up to alot of money and as stated more than some on here get as a salary.

Baring in mind i was made redundant and lost my job not so long ago and subsequently worked for a charity for free during the week ... i am more than qualified to make a judgment.

These career doleites can work but wont work its time to change that... im glad this government are doing that




oooooo Posted on 08/11/2010 13:46
Working for Benefits

If you don't get money in your pocket, you aren't getting paid. Payments made by other methods that contribute to them being reliant on the state don't count.

If you do a job and they do, why should you get paid cash and them paid nothing except benefits they were getting before? It's a short-sighted punitive measure.

Dibzzz Posted on 08/11/2010 13:47
Working for Benefits

Yes it's a good idea for all the scrotes who don't want to know.

But you'd feel pretty XXXXXXed off if you found yourself out of work through no fault of your own and worked all your life, and you find yourself painting a fcuking park fence fo £60 odd quid a week.

Surely these type of people will be given a bit of dignity ?

southgatesotherelbow Posted on 08/11/2010 13:49
Working for Benefits

"If you don't get money in your pocket, you aren't getting paid. Payments made by other methods that contribute to them being reliant on the state don't count."

You just lost the debate with that glaringly stupid statement

oooooo Posted on 08/11/2010 13:49
Working for Benefits

Dibz, I thought it was to get people used to working rather than punish though....?

The people with dignity will do what they are told to do and the people this is going after won't as they have always done.


tonymcandrewshattrick Posted on 08/11/2010 13:52
Working for Benefits

give people proper jobs and proper pay.

It's a scandalous idea

Though (for all the Tories on here) I do believe that long term unemployed need to be tackled, but in a way that's co-operative rather than punitive

oooooo Posted on 08/11/2010 13:52
Working for Benefits

Getting paid real money with which you can choose what *you* want to do is liberating and not the same as the government handing money directly over to some landlord that has over-priced the house.

Still having trouble understanding?

Bandy Posted on 08/11/2010 13:55
Working for Benefits

leave the unpaid stuff to prisoners and young offenders. They need the discipline and education. As for the unemployed, make sure there are enough jobs out there in the first place

southgatesotherelbow Posted on 08/11/2010 14:10
Working for Benefits

I can certainly see how you are having trouble with it oooo.... they are not getting £65 pounds a week in benefits they are getting considerably more.

It is irrelevant whether that is in hand or their bills are directly paid.

I understand how the country got in such a despicable state with Labour in charge... with the mindset that because benefits are not paid in hand they "dont count" utter madness and stupidity.

If they want to be liberated... get a job even if its a job they dont want to do and its minimum salary!



oooooo Posted on 08/11/2010 14:18
Working for Benefits

All I have said is pay people real money and let them have some control over their future rather than have the state do everything for them, which they'll still be doing if they are on this scheme.

Less of the stupid comments, mate - you're the one who is failing to comprehend a quite simple point.

southgatesotherelbow Posted on 08/11/2010 14:23
Working for Benefits

Nope oooo its definatly you making idiotic points. See "if they are not being paid it in hand it doesnt count comment" for rank idiocy

Like i said they want freedom and the ability to choose what they spend their money on .... get a job.

While they are taking many thousands from the public purse they will do as told.

Its not hard Ooooo... less of the hand wringing bleeding heart nonesense thanks.

oooooo Posted on 08/11/2010 14:44
Working for Benefits

If you can't debate reasonably then you shouldn't get involved. I've made good points, you've decided to ignore them and throw around 'idiocy' comments and rather sweeping things such as "get a job", something you failed to do when you were bumming around in a charity shop and I was paying for your benefits. Don't worry, I don't want the money back.

dodger Posted on 08/11/2010 14:49
Working for Benefits

" Arbeit macht frei "

I have seen that on a gate somewhere [xx(]

On a more serious note , it is not surprising that people are seeing the jobless as scrounging wasters.

From the end of the last Labour govt we have been fed a constant drip of anti jobless propaganda through the media to harden peoples attitudes against the jobless.

The jobless are portrayed as social outcasts and with the purge of cuts people like to have a group to blame or feel superior to.

There are over 10 million people of working age in the uk who do not work , there are around 800,000 current vacancies.

Meanwhile the culprits who caused the financial crisis laugh all the way to the bank and feed us schit to blame others to disguise their crimes.







Zelig Posted on 08/11/2010 14:50
Working for Benefits

I wonder how many of you black shirt wannabes would be willing to work for 37% of the minimum wage especially when the work you will be doing will not teach you any new skills or have any intrinsic rewards.

You talk like there is a surplus of jobs & the long term unemployed are just refusing to take them but in reality there are 5 unemployed people for every vacancy in this country.

It's about time some people turned their anger towards the government (Tory & new Labour) who have let this country & its people get into this mess instead of blaming the very people who have been left behind by this unfair system.



southgatesotherelbow Posted on 08/11/2010 14:55
Working for Benefits

Nice try oooo i only received benefits for three months due to getting too much in redundancy and secondly being taxed 40% of my salary for quite a number of years more than covered what little benefits i received. More over i quite clearly "got another job" and one on alot higher pay thanks for your concern (the "compassionate" left eh?)

I think you may find its probably my contributions covering your sprogs education but dont worry i dont want to be thanked for it... anyhow enough about me..[:D]

As i said less of the idiotic comments..

You lost the debate with: "if they dont get benefits in their hand it doesnt count" idiotic comment

Dont compound it by being more idiotic wittering comments.. i know alot of the left like to keep ranting long after theyve lost.

oooooo Posted on 08/11/2010 15:02
Working for Benefits

I said they didn't count because I was talking about cash that goes in your pocket which would be clear if you quoted the entire post rather than just the second sentence over and over again.



southgatesotherelbow Posted on 08/11/2010 15:05
Working for Benefits

Working for your benefits = the Nazis according to the Left FFS your a pack of absolute jokers...

Go and tell that to any of our forefathers and they would have laughed in your face.

Its called pride and civic duty... if someone is paying you benefits give something back... go clean a pensioners drive of snow or sweep up their leaves... go and work for a charity... help someone disabled get their shopping in... it really isnt hard too understand.

Some of you people are prime examples of why this country is falling apart and you should hang your heads in shame


speckyget Posted on 08/11/2010 15:06
Working for Benefits

I'll condense sgoe's last post down a bit as a service to members:

I am really rich. I have won this argument because I say I have. Idiot, and [:D].

southgatesotherelbow Posted on 08/11/2010 15:07
Working for Benefits

As i said oooo its irrelevant whether its in your pocket or not it still counts.. not hard is it? (obviously it is for ooo)

dodger Posted on 08/11/2010 15:11
Working for Benefits

"Some of you people are prime examples of why this country is falling apart and you should hang your heads in shame" [:D]

Or you could actually blame the people responsible.

southgatesotherelbow Posted on 08/11/2010 15:12
Working for Benefits

Ah another of the t.i.t.s in a trance from the left Speckyget... any comment on the topic of these posts or is it too high brow for my little chav friend..

Oh how i love t'brothers humiliating themselves all the time its soo enjoyable![:D]

Especially when they get on the class warfare/ evil rich banana box...[:D][:D][:D]

What a shower you lot are... [:o)]

southgatesotherelbow Posted on 08/11/2010 15:13
Working for Benefits

"Some of you people are prime examples of why this country is falling apart and you should hang your heads in shame"

Or you could actually blame the people responsible.

We already have.. thats Labour.. catch up dear boy catch up!![:D]

oooooo Posted on 08/11/2010 15:15
Working for Benefits

Specky [:D]

oooooo Posted on 08/11/2010 15:20
Working for Benefits

You know what? I'm more than slightly sceptical that you ever volunteered in a charity shop. Call it a 'hunch'.

southgatesotherelbow Posted on 08/11/2010 15:23
Working for Benefits

Oh dear ooo best you can come up with??

Let me guess and call it a "hunch" you might be one of the people who are "professional" doleites... dont want your xbox time taken away from you for nasty old work [;)]

dodger Posted on 08/11/2010 15:27
Working for Benefits

Southgate , you are involved in a debate about people working for benefits.

In your posts you have described the jobless as "malingerers" and "career doleites".

I think we get the message with your vindictive comments.

oooooo Posted on 08/11/2010 15:27
Working for Benefits

I'm lucky that I've never had to sign on in my life, in 100% employment since leaving college. I would be careful with throwing those 'doleite' comments around seeing as between the two of us, you are the only one who has signed on.

I'm calling it a 'hunch' because when people start throwing in thinly-veiled references to how much money they used to earn, you get the nagging suspicion that they might, just might, be partial to being a bit of a bullXXXXXXter. You've probably got a great house, car, bird and job too.

deganya Posted on 08/11/2010 15:38
Working for Benefits

he probably does have a great house, car, bird and job too, he's certainly got a personality, and I understand he uses it as a form of contraception.

Southgates elbow ... just repeated insults and silly childish comments against anyone that doesn't agree with him. He's a solicitor you know ha ha ha ha

southgatesotherelbow Posted on 08/11/2010 15:39
Working for Benefits

Ooo you were the person who started the "i pay for your benefits to bum around a charity shop" comment not me i merely responded to it with some facts about me that is all.

The birds a pain [:D] but the rest is as stated[;)]

FYI contrary to the Left i dont view benefits claimants as "below" me. Many have fallen on hard times, i know i have been there, but what i do expect them to do is to do everything possible to get back into work... that includes free work, work experience or taking part in work schemes.

One of the things my employer told me, that impressed the panel of interviwers, was that i had volunteered and i had done free work as it showed pride and willing I hadnt sat on my arse and expected the world to support me.

I am not blowing my trumpet merely recounting an experience in the hope that somebody on the dole might do the same and get a job.

I fail to see why that is a bad thing ooo.

Edit: Prime evidence of the idiot left Deganya!! [:D] Are you not on a protest march or releasing some nut cutlets?? [:D][:D]

Zelig Posted on 08/11/2010 15:46
Working for Benefits

Can you make your minds up please.

Do you want to help people get back into work? If yes then turn your anger towards your government to make sure that there are jobs available for this country's citizens & that every long term unemployed person is either in work based training or college education to get the skills needed to do these jobs.

Or

Do you want to punish people for being unemployed? In this case you can cheer as being unemployed becomes a new criminal offence as they are forced to do the same community service that criminals do.

oooooo Posted on 08/11/2010 15:47
Working for Benefits

After throwing the 'idiot' insults around all afternoon, I think you've lost all credibility. You sound like a narcissist to me, and they rarely tell the full truth.

Scrote Posted on 08/11/2010 15:48
Working for Benefits

rodney - "Council tennants might get work done of 'their' houses but elderly people who own their own homes don't get these types of jobs done for them"

southgatesotherelbow - "if someone is paying you benefits give something back... go clean a pensioners drive of snow or sweep up their leaves"

wouldn't it make more sense in a capitalist society for the pensioner to advertise a job vacancy and pay for someone to come and do work on their private property

if they can't afford to do that then maybe they should sell their property and move into a care-home or similar instead of artificially propping up the housing market on the back of free-labour from those who can't even dream of getting near the first rung of the property ladder

as has been said plenty of times already - if work needs doing then it should be paid for at a fair rate (minimum wage or more)

benefits are provided to prevent people slipping into poverty - not to push them into a slave class that can be called upon to do anything society deems worthless

if the benefits system is broken fix it

if work needs doing pay for it

don't conflate the two into a single issue

southgatesotherelbow Posted on 08/11/2010 15:51
Working for Benefits

Scrote, ive already answered that someway up.. they are being paid.. more than enough.

A 20k a year slave [:D]

Ooo have a word with yourself please as i said you lost the debate with : they should be getting benefits paid into their hands anything else doesnt count. It was an idiotic and stupid comment.

Im not going around in circles with you as you have little to add

oooooo Posted on 08/11/2010 15:52
Working for Benefits

Excellent post, scrote.

Scrote Posted on 08/11/2010 15:55
Working for Benefits

southgatesotherelbow - "Scrote, ive already answered that someway up.. they are being paid.. more than enough.

A 20k a year slave"

sorry - can you show me one example from the multitude of tabloid 'exposes' that shows anyone being paid £20k whilst being on benefits

it just doesn't happen

£20k monetary equivalent i'd accept but as oooooo pointed out - it isn't the same thing as being paid and taking charge of your own finances

Zelig Posted on 08/11/2010 16:12
Working for Benefits

southgatesotherelbow it sounds like you are unhappy with the landlords charging the government £20k+ to house its country's citizens. Again you prefer to blame the people claiming housing benefit (the vast majority of these people are working & not unemployed btw despite what you think) instead of turning your anger to these landlords.

southgatesotherelbow Posted on 08/11/2010 16:14
Working for Benefits

20k "monatary equivalent" Scrote is the same it is money paying claimants bills. Its idiotic to suggest its not

I am more than happy for the government to pay 60 quid a week in their hand and nothing more if as you say its not the same.[:D]

That should save a substantial sum off the benefits bill.

Zelig, im not debating housing rental rates you pay what the market is.

Ive been quite clear Zelig

Zelig Posted on 08/11/2010 16:18
Working for Benefits

Hands up who thinks we should work out exactly how many jobs there are in the economy & then anyone not in work above that number should be killed in a macabre game of musical chairs. [:P]

HarryVegas Posted on 08/11/2010 16:21
Working for Benefits

So Southgatesotherelbow - that's the poor sorted. Who's next in line then? Immigrants? The disabled? People with mental health problems? Anyone but the rich, eh?

Go back to reading your scapegoat-bashing Daily Mail.

speckyget Posted on 08/11/2010 16:23
Working for Benefits

'any comment on the topic of these posts '

I did Walter, earlier on where I pointed out that this policy was initiated by the erstwhile Labour Government. Something you chose to ignore for some reason - doubtless distracted by a knotty legal problem, or perhaps the screen was partially obscured by bundles of cash?

Scrote Posted on 08/11/2010 16:25
Working for Benefits

Southgatesotherelbow - i'm not sure if maths is one of your stronger subjects but £60 per week is not equal to £20k per year

so either people are getting £20k per year or they aren't - can you at least make your mind up before calling everyone else an idiot...

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 08/11/2010 16:27
Working for Benefits

'i'm not sure if maths is one of your stronger subjects'

He only has one, telling lies.

No need to answer daft lad, I know exactly what you're going to write.

[:o)]

squarewheelbike Posted on 08/11/2010 16:31
Working for Benefits

I'm highly skilled, but unemployed as my job was downgraded and given to someone who is 1/5th cheaper to employ. I pay £100 a week rent, but 4 months on have yet to receive a penny towards it, despite doing everything asked and legally required. So I'm living on about -£40 a week.

Zelig Posted on 08/11/2010 16:37
Working for Benefits

Squarewheelbike shhh they don't want to hear the truth that more money goes unclaimed than is wrongly claimed in the welfare system. Another right wing myth exposed.

squarewheelbike Posted on 08/11/2010 16:41
Working for Benefits

Sorry Zelig, I won't mention tax evasion either.

BTW Because I was at a job interview, I've lost a week of the housing benefit I'm legally entitled to, but still haven't got.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 08/11/2010 16:49
Working for Benefits

tax evasion....he loves that one, but it only applies to working class blokes who are actually paying tax [^] and living a 'tory champagne lifestyle', such as myself [:D]


oooooo Posted on 08/11/2010 16:54
Working for Benefits

Has southgatesotherelbow , posted as another name before then?

southgatesotherelbow Posted on 08/11/2010 17:01
Working for Benefits

Scrote, have a word.. you have utterly missed the point. (for political reasons obviously[;)])

Benefits are the same regardless whether they are paid into you bank account or that money is paid directly for you.

You state that it doesnt count when paid for you when it quite obviously does.

I stated i am quite happy for someone to get 60 per week AND THATS it (nothing more) if as you say those other benefits dont count as it will save a considerable amount of the welfare tab.

as they clearly DO count and alot of claimants get 20 k in benefits then they should work.

The simple fact that our left wing posters cannot accept that benefits are the same whether paid into your account or on your behalf and DO COUNT is more than enough evidence to prove why our country is in the state it is in!

Whats next brothers? that hospital over there is paid with PFI but it doesnt matter it doesnt count[:D][:D][:D]

How idiotic can you be

PS.Fluck me pinnochio the clown has turned up our self confessed left wing liar and hypocrite.

Nite Brothers

valerunner Posted on 08/11/2010 17:01
Working for Benefits

Why on earth should people be given benefits -and I love that word- to sit on their backsides watching day time mind destroying telly when they could be doing something useful for society and helping instill a work ethic.Self respect alone should demand that the unemployed be employed regardless of the type of work.Socialism has never been a political ideology that advocated allowing an underclass of "benefit" claimants to spend the best part of their adult life contributing nowt to society. I feel deeply sorry for anyone who through no fault of their own has lost their job.The real unemployed should be given all the help they need to get back into the workplace.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 08/11/2010 17:03
Working for Benefits

In one [^]


southgatesotherelbow Posted on 08/11/2010 17:07
Working for Benefits

"tax evasion....he loves that one, but it only applies to working class blokes who are actually paying tax and living a 'tory champagne lifestyle', such as myself

A full and frank admission there from Pinnochio the clown that he is a liar and hypocrite.



Really cant see why you would be laughing when making such a damaging admission like that Pinnochio but you left wingers have a very strange sense of humour dont you!!


"Working class"[:D][:D][:D]

Any how Nite Brothers


oooooo Posted on 08/11/2010 17:12
Working for Benefits

Well if you are saying that then let's not give them any money as £65 is simply going to put them and their family on the street.

As long as you are alright.

speckyget Posted on 08/11/2010 17:15
Working for Benefits

Do other Toryboys get embarrassed by this hayseed? I mean, they're not all quite this doltish. Are they?

Zelig Posted on 08/11/2010 17:17
Working for Benefits

But none of you are advocating a system of full employment are you. Under a capitalist system there will always be losers as companies are allowed to employ the cream & leave the rest to fend for themselves. Unless you want to allow the people who lose out to die of starvation you need to support them. If you'd prefer them to die & decrease the surplus population at least be honest about it.

So southgatesotherelbow you would be happy to give people £60 & nothing more. That's really kind of you. I take it you would be happy for them to live on the streets then as clearly they won't be able to afford to live anywhere else.

squarewheelbike Posted on 08/11/2010 17:20
Working for Benefits

Are there no workhouses?

Scrote Posted on 08/11/2010 17:27
Working for Benefits

okay two points

1. £20k a year in hand is NOT the same as having certain things paid for 'cos you get very little choice as to how it's spent

in fact i'd imagine that if people were given £20k a year and were allowed to shop around in a proper capitalist fashion then the landlords would soon have to start lowering rents to compete - but that would never do - giving spending power to the proles...

2. valerunner - people are not given benefits to sit on their backsides

the capitalist system demands that some people are sat on their backsides - socialist ideology forces capitalists to look after these people through benefits - you're mistakenly putting the cart before the horse, so to speak...

one thing i'd agree with is 'forcing' people to watch educational telly throughout the day but i'm fairly sure the capitalists wouldn't want a more intelligent underclass as that might cause them problems

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 08/11/2010 17:29
Working for Benefits

'But none of you are advocating a system of full employment are you.'

You must have missed some of the previous 'debates'. Many believe it's a policy that should never have been dropped.




Zelig Posted on 08/11/2010 17:31
Working for Benefits

I was referring to the black shirt wannabes.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 08/11/2010 17:31
Working for Benefits

'Do other Toryboys get embarrassed by this hayseed?'

Embarrasment is not one of their traits, other than when it comes to football attendances.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 08/11/2010 17:34
Working for Benefits

Sorry, zelig!

Not a chance.

squarewheelbike Posted on 08/11/2010 17:37
Working for Benefits

Sadly, the clock is being turned back 30 years, lots of people being made unemployed, then being labelled as scrounging scum.

Zelig Posted on 08/11/2010 17:41
Working for Benefits

I think the clock is being turned back 200 years [V]

Quote “All that's necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke.

joshie Posted on 08/11/2010 17:53
Working for Benefits

Have only read some of this but for our benevolent socialists, there is a substantial portion of the long term unemployed who have no interest whatsoever in working.

What is the solution to this group of people?

If been answered already my apologies.

TeessideCleveland Posted on 08/11/2010 17:55
Working for Benefits

Would prefer no benefits at all eventually but for now at least working for them is better than doing nothing for them

Scrote Posted on 08/11/2010 17:58
Working for Benefits

joshie - the 'solution' is for the politicians etc. to find out the reasons why people have no intention of working (if that is indeed the case) and then look at ways to attract people back to work

however that goes against the capitalist need for an underclass that acts as a warning to the workforce in general

simple question to anyone on here who thinks the 'work-shy' are living it up - all else being equal, would you swap places with them tomorrow

if you answer no then there is a fundamental flaw somewhere in your argument

Zelig Posted on 08/11/2010 17:58
Working for Benefits

Joshie the government needs to create meaningful work for people to do before they start blaming the unemployed for not working. The government's own figures show that there are currently five unemployed people for every vacancy despite what the right wing press says.

The government needs to make sure the unemployed have relevant work focused training courses, work placements & college courses to do so they have the skills needed to do these jobs.

Having the unemployed pick up litter is a ridiculous & quite frankly childish solution to the problem.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 08/11/2010 18:04
Working for Benefits

'Would prefer no benefits at all eventually'

Absolutely. 100% employment should be the aim. So why isn't it a government policy?

Is it because the nation has drifted to the right and uses unemployment as a tool to bring wages down?



joshie Posted on 08/11/2010 18:09
Working for Benefits

Scrote, it is indeed the case. I am not sure if some people refuse to see this or dont see it because of the areas they frequent.

I have every sympathy for people who have become unemployed and are actively seeking work. I think this sort of initiative should not be forced upon them as would be counter-productive in most cases. Those genuinely looking for work should be given every support.

Something radical does need to be done with those who are not interested in work though, conspiracy theories notwithstanding.

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 08/11/2010 18:16
Working for Benefits

'Something radical does need to be done'

Not a chance until the Labour Party is re-organised or another party of the working class is formed. Otherwise we'll just be arguing amongst oursleves while the political class take the pi$$...as they have since the 1970's.


joshie Posted on 08/11/2010 18:22
Working for Benefits

1970's....

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 08/11/2010 18:23
Working for Benefits

How old are you, joshie?

TeessideCleveland Posted on 08/11/2010 18:28
Working for Benefits

'you think £50 for 30 hours work is reasonable?'

Do you think £50 for doing nothing is?

joshie Posted on 08/11/2010 18:29
Working for Benefits

45, what i meant was the ruling class have been no different throughout history.

Zelig Posted on 08/11/2010 18:33
Working for Benefits

Teessidecleveland I think you should be paid £50 for your first 30 hours work each week do you agree?

easy-britain Posted on 08/11/2010 18:54
Working for Benefits

i work as a contractor during the year i somtimes find myself out of work.it comes with my job.so if they are going to make unemployed work for benifits i want a percentage of my tax back that i pay when i am working for instance i done four trips offshore and payed just short of a grand in tax and ni you dont get that in a year on the dole so is that fare no its not,give us it back now[V]

acklam_lad Posted on 08/11/2010 19:23
Working for Benefits

Can't be a****d reading through all this but a few year ago i was unemployed and claiming JSA and was desperate to just get a job so i took up bar work on a Saturday night in town which was £30 a night.

I think my JSA was £47.50 a week. I was hoping this would mean i'd pick up a little bit extra or at least be even stevens since i'd went out and found myself a job. How wrong i was! Instead, i was told they would just make up the difference (£17.50) and with no help towards my travel costs (bus to work £2.00, taxi home at 4am £6.00)

So i was actually getting £39.50 instead of the £47.50 i'd of been getting for just sitting on me a**e doing nowt [V] I got punished for it.

Luckily i found a full-time job after 3 weeks.

karl_hungus Posted on 08/11/2010 19:30
Working for Benefits

slave labour

the media and government do a terrifc job of portraying the 2 million or so unemployed people as worse than shyte, despite there being only 400000 jobs at any one time anyway, but fail to explain how it is possible for one of these so called 'lifing the life of luxury' scummers etc to life of £50 a week, i mean, i spend more in fuel just tottering around, so how the XXXXXX i could manager a flat or house, pay bills, buy clothes and eat and do so in luxury on 50 quid a week is beyond me

there are too many tossers who have a good qality of life, but boring and dull life that focus too much on a few unemployed people and make it there lifes goal to complain about them incessantly and there £50 a week dole

if any of you think that living of £50 a week is luxurious, i suggest you try it, and think about those unemployed 2 million all fighting for 400000 jobs, knowing if any of them fail, they will have to work for concentration camp wages instead

absolutely pathetic idea, the whole concept of the labour market dictates there has to be unemployed people to keep wages low, punishing people for whats basically a lack of education and lack of support defies belief

its amazing that despite such a pathetic, minimal amount of money our unemployed population actually get, you always get dickheads on here thinking its unfair , and would rather see them starve instead

arsewhipes

interesting on a sidenote, that unskilled, uneducated people have no chance of improving there skills and education, but the same capitalist system is happy to pay them tens of thousands instead over a few decades

gee, i wonder why the privately educated, capitalist system we live in, wouldnt want to 'educate' the lower working classes


Zelig Posted on 08/11/2010 19:44
Working for Benefits

Well said Karl [^]

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 08/11/2010 19:46
Working for Benefits

Karl [^]

[:O]

offside-again Posted on 08/11/2010 20:00
Working for Benefits

The government needs to make sure the unemployed have relevant work focused training courses, work placements & college courses to do so they have the skills needed to do these jobs.

Having the unemployed pick up litter is a ridiculous & quite frankly childish solution to the problem.


____________________________________________________


Spot on, education and training are the way and if they refuse that then stop there money. At least offer a chance of meaningful progression.

red_shamrock Posted on 08/11/2010 20:08
Working for Benefits

It will only encourage fly tipping.

joebolton Posted on 08/11/2010 20:08
Working for Benefits

I pointed out earlier in the thread that out of every 100 people who make a claim, only 7 or 8 get to the 12 month stage when this is going to kick in.
It is quite hard to manage to stay unemployed for a full year, and it is possible to draw the conclusion that these people are fairly content with not working.
It may be that they have 3 or 4 children , and the full support they receive is around £25,000 gross.
It could be that they have a profitable little sideline of govy jobs.
Either way, we are talking about the minority of people who claim Jobseekers.

Zelig Posted on 08/11/2010 20:18
Working for Benefits

Been reading the Daily Mail again Joe?

Sitrep Posted on 08/11/2010 20:26
Working for Benefits

Dude, your knowledge of the system, astounds me, well said that man.

ThePrisoner Posted on 08/11/2010 20:26
Working for Benefits

Where do I apply for a workhouse franchise? All I need is an empty factory, lots of gruel and some barbed wire. I'll be fcuking minted before you can say 'Oliver Twist' [^]

joebolton Posted on 08/11/2010 20:35
Working for Benefits

Zelig, what is it in my post that you disagree with ?

Zelig Posted on 09/11/2010 07:26
Working for Benefits

'It is quite hard to manage to stay unemployed for a full year, and it is possible to draw the conclusion that these people are fairly content with not working.'

Where is your evidence for this claim? There are currently five unemployed people for every vacancy in this country (the government's own figures not mine) so I think it is very easy to remain unemployed for well over 12 months especially if you have been left behind & not given the training or skills needed to do these jobs. Will picking up litter give them these skills - no.

'It may be that they have 3 or 4 children , and the full support they receive is around £25,000 gross.'

Sounds like you've been reading too many Daily Mail headlines to me as this is not factually correct in the vast majority of cases. Just out of interest did the Daily Mail say how many of this figure are homosexual immigrants who smoke & eat too much?

'It could be that they have a profitable little sideline of govy jobs.'

Where is the evidence for this ridiculous claim? Benefit fraud costs this country peanuts compared to what tax avoidance costs & more money goes unclaimed in the welfare system each year than is claimed fraudulently. Why wouldn't you want to tackle these much bigger problems first?

Keep your anger focused on the people this capitalist system has abandoned instead of the people with the power to change things but choose to do nothing like a good puppet.

If you think they don't want to work & are happy to live on benefits why aren't you asking the real question of why this is? Is it because every time they apply for a job they miss out because companies will inevitably employ the cream & reject the rest & after a long list of failed attempts they've finally given up on themselves & of ever finding work & decided to settle for living on peanuts because they don't have the skills employers are looking for & no one is willing to employ or train them.

The right wing media depicts the unemployed as living in luxury but would you swap your lifestyle with theirs?

It reminds me of the 'prisoners have an easy life argument'. People complain about how easy life is in prison & yet they're not willing to swap their lifestyles with that of a prisoner.

joebolton Posted on 09/11/2010 20:08
Working for Benefits

Zelig
The evidence for the first one is that 92% of JSA claimants find work before they reach 52 weeks claiming.Google JSA off-flows if you want the full picture.
Left behind and not given the training and skills- what skills do you need, perhaps a perhaps could get a McJob and pick up some customer service skills, then move onto something better.It can't all be handed to people on a plate.
People with 3 or 4 children will get around 25k- its true.Housing Benefit,Child Tax Credit, JSA, Council Tax Benefit, Child Benefit, free school dinners.
Govy jobs, I did quantify with "might be".

The rst of it you seem to be arguing with someone else.

Regards

Joe