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mwelolo Posted on 30/10/2010 17:58
Boyd is awful

Yes he got that tap in but he offered absultuely nothing else.

He looks lazy, half hearted and disinterested at times.

He's hardly lethal when the ball is put on his boot.

Not what we need, get him of the wage bill and bring in an effective striker.

1st_time_caller Posted on 30/10/2010 17:59
Boyd is awful

just posted this on another thread:

i am one who doesn't rate boyd over macdonald. boyd must be 2 stone overweight and is very slow. i keep hearing people say if he gets the service and the chances he will score. well, he does get chances and spurns far too many of them. if he is ths SPL top scorer then they must play a rush goalie system up there or something, or have very big goals

Adi_Dem Posted on 30/10/2010 17:59
Boyd is awful

Sorry but I can't agree. He was showing for the ball, held it up reasonably well and got a good goal. He will get 20+ goals a season. We need to build a team that can supply him.

Paulo_SAscouting Posted on 30/10/2010 18:00
Boyd is awful

My manager is from Glasgow and is a Rangers fan. He said exactly the same as what you just said when we signed him.

He said most Rangers fans weren't that bothered when he left because of those reasons.

Oooo Posted on 30/10/2010 18:00
Boyd is awful

He did miss an absolute sitter today though

joebonano Posted on 30/10/2010 18:00
Boyd is awful

He is without doubt a grotesque misuse of the clubs money considering the ridiculous wages he is on.

Adi_Dem Posted on 30/10/2010 18:01
Boyd is awful

How much is he on then Joe?

Paulo_SAscouting Posted on 30/10/2010 18:02
Boyd is awful

Boyd will be on a fair amount. He turned down a big money move to Turkey to come here.

joebonano Posted on 30/10/2010 18:03
Boyd is awful

According to reports £25k per week which is way beyond any Championship club should be paying

Adi_Dem Posted on 30/10/2010 18:05
Boyd is awful

Key phrase there is 'according to reports'.

mwelolo Posted on 30/10/2010 18:05
Boyd is awful

He doesn't bust a gut, there is never quite the lunge for the ball you might expect from a striker, he does not put defenders under nearly enough pressure to force errors.He doesn't hold the ball up particularly well, he's not lethal in front of goal.......he's just another Alves.

Move him on.

Sitrep Posted on 30/10/2010 18:06
Boyd is awful

He has no excuse, plenty of chances for him today; he should have had a hat trick

Gains Posted on 30/10/2010 18:06
Boyd is awful

I think he's a decent player and a good finisher. I do agree however he needs to lose a stone to get to his maximum.

He should definately have got on the end of Tarmo's header across goal.

mwelolo Posted on 30/10/2010 18:07
Boyd is awful

Boyd will be on a canny wage.

Adi_Dem Posted on 30/10/2010 18:10
Boyd is awful

Not £25K though.

I am not sure what people expect him to do. If he chases all over the place like Tuncay used to no doubt he would be lauded. Fact is that it's a waste of time and effort. He does his job and is by far and away our most likely threat.

br14 Posted on 30/10/2010 18:11
Boyd is awful

He'd be alright on the bench, but he needs far too many chances to score.

Could be a question of confidence but can we afford to find out.


Adi_Dem Posted on 30/10/2010 18:12
Boyd is awful

Again, I don't see that at all. No striker in the world converts every chance but I would expect his ratio compares with most.

mwelolo Posted on 30/10/2010 18:12
Boyd is awful

He is not doing his job very well though.

Adi_Dem Posted on 30/10/2010 18:13
Boyd is awful

Top scorer, most likely to be on the end of anything and looks dangerous. Sorry, but I think that is exactly his job.

mwelolo Posted on 30/10/2010 18:15
Boyd is awful

Top scorer in a team who can not score goals.

He has hardly been prolific and you are very easily pleased.

mitch_mfc Posted on 30/10/2010 18:16
Boyd is awful

Seems like the type of player that only needs 1 chance and he'll put it away, fair enough he's missed a few sitters but I wouldnt exactley say he's had plenty created for him. Other than that sometimes it feels as if we're a man down, he'll still be a good asset I'm sure

sixtyniner69 Posted on 30/10/2010 18:17
Boyd is awful

boyd mcdonald and lita are the reason we have lost 14 pts friom the last 15


boyds goal was a back post goal

but all three have missed, miss kicked, fluffed, scuffed decent chances in the last 5 games.

it was said before that they do not have the service well in the last 5 games they have had the service and all three have messed it up

williams is a breath of fresh air with a different style of play

Adi_Dem Posted on 30/10/2010 18:19
Boyd is awful

No I'm not, I just think if you were putting together a list of our problems, Boyd ought not to appear.

For example, Wheater seems to escape any criticism and yet was one of the worst players on the pitch today.

Bottom line with Boyd for me is that he will score goals and a lot of them if we get it right behind him. If you ever expected him to chase all over the place, drop deep to pick up the ball, go on mazy runs or anything else like that then you were always in for disappointment. That's never been his game, it's all about end product with him and, as I say, he is streets ahead of anyone in the squad in the regard and I would strongly suspect his chance to goal ratio is as good as anyones.

Space_Face Posted on 30/10/2010 18:21
Boyd is awful

I'm pretty sure he did his job today.

mwelolo Posted on 30/10/2010 18:24
Boyd is awful

It's a poor job he does then.

Sitrep Posted on 30/10/2010 18:25
Boyd is awful

Boyd missed 2 absolute sitters today

mwelolo Posted on 30/10/2010 18:29
Boyd is awful

I don't say I want Boyd to chase all over the pitch, I just want him to apply himslef more, to put more pressure on defenders, to be more competetive in the box, to loose a bit of weight and maybe to look like he gives a toss.

Not much to ask!

allied_assault Posted on 30/10/2010 18:29
Boyd is awful

Hold on - he has scored 4 goals in a team that hardly creates chances.

Kink and Emnes playing as wide men may result in more scoring situations.

And the Ishmail Miller loan signing - if it comes off, should help as well.

How many goals would he score for Cardiff?

sixtyniner69 Posted on 30/10/2010 18:33
Boyd is awful

"Hold on - he has scored 4 goals in a team that hardly creates chances."

thats not true we create loads of chances ALL THREE of the main strikers boyd, mcdonald, lita have fluffed them


outmac Posted on 30/10/2010 18:33
Boyd is awful

Had plenty of chances today Mitch did Boyd.
If he'd put them away we'd have won at a canter.

Ripley_11 Posted on 30/10/2010 18:37
Boyd is awful

Boyd had loads of chances today - is this another Alves situation ("give him service and he'll score") - only to be sorely disappointed when he does get the service.

The_Clique Posted on 30/10/2010 18:41
Boyd is awful

He did score didn't he?

He scores goals. Simple as that. When we had players that did all of the things you mention but didn't score eg Aliadiere, most posted that strikers are to be judged on goals and nothing else. Now we have a goalscorer people want more from him. He does everything he is supposed to do. Give him the ball in the right areas and he will score.

4 goals in what 8 or 9 appearances? Not bad in a team as poor as ours. Even today he really had 1 good chance and a couple of half chances. He scored one.

mitch_mfc Posted on 30/10/2010 18:43
Boyd is awful

Hmmmmm well I see what you're saying, I mean when I went to the Portsmouth game we could have had the game wrapped up if he put the chances he had a way.

I remembering saying this with a 1 particular Mr Alves - atleast he's getting into the positions. McDonald has slumpedin form a lot, the midfield and defence need to chip in a hell of a lot more, but I reckon he'll come good, with better players around him we may see a better Boyd, he just needs that run of goals instead of missed chances.

outmac Posted on 30/10/2010 18:43
Boyd is awful

Yes he scored but should have had 3 .
This 'give him the chances and he'll score'
has already worn thin.

Space_Face Posted on 30/10/2010 18:46
Boyd is awful

He did fcuking score.

billdoor Posted on 30/10/2010 18:46
Boyd is awful

Boys isn't awful. Yes he's had chances that he could have scored but the solution isn't to drop him, it's to keep playing him and see if he turns those into more goals.

Fact is he's our top scorer in a team that lacks goals. I'd prefer him to Lita.


allied_assault Posted on 30/10/2010 18:48
Boyd is awful

Just going to say he did score today, but are we going to rely purely on Boyd to score all our goals?
What about Mcdonald, Thompson Tavares Williams and Robson (although Robson was our best player today).

Looking at the match today, I felt that the first 30 mins was the best football we have played this season - until we scored.

There is a mental fragility about us that must be very concerning to Mowbray.

tom_mate Posted on 30/10/2010 18:49
Boyd is awful

For his weight he gets pushed around far too easily by defenders, he never wins headers (he hardly even challenges for them), he can't hold the ball up very well and his work rate is 0.

Lita can hold the ball up better than Boyd and Boyd weighs about twice that of Lita.

Sitrep Posted on 30/10/2010 18:49
Boyd is awful

“Give him the ball in the right areas and he will score”



and, Alves scored loads of goals in a sh ite league.

outmac Posted on 30/10/2010 18:50
Boyd is awful

We'll see what Mogga makes of him and his
workrate .
For a big fella he gets edged out easily
by defenders.
Not great in the air either.

Chris_From_Pitchside Posted on 30/10/2010 18:59
Boyd is awful

I've heard that Boyd is on more than £25k a week. £10k a week more to be precise.

I only heard that on here though so I may be wrong.

Adi_Dem Posted on 30/10/2010 19:02
Boyd is awful

Again, I can't agree with that. A feature of his game in previous weeks has actually been his ability to win headers. Today was the exception rather than the rule.

I just can't for the life of me see why we are focussing on him as being awful. He is nowhere near the problem for me.

mwelolo Posted on 30/10/2010 19:21
Boyd is awful

He is certainly part of the problem but as you say Wheater and others are also culpable.

bryan_munich Posted on 30/10/2010 19:22
Boyd is awful

We need Boyd if we're going to progress up the table.

Adi_Dem Posted on 30/10/2010 19:26
Boyd is awful

I just think changing Boyd will make little difference because the problems lay elsewhere.

All across the back line is a problem and both sides of the midfield.

atarisdodds Posted on 30/10/2010 19:29
Boyd is awful

Boyd is not the problem in this side.

Out of form center backs
No LB at club
No wingers at club
Poor midfielders (thomson, bailey)
are all bigger problems IMO

RavsDad Posted on 30/10/2010 19:29
Boyd is awful

OK, most accept that by signing Boyd we were getting a fairly immobile target man, but despite little other contribution he would be well worth his place because of a high conversion rate.

I would have thought he'd be a major aerial threat but he's totally useless in that regard. I can't remember a single header on target in any of the home games although I believe he scored one at Derby. And from excellent chances he converts very few.

McDonald is even worse at conversion but at least works to try and create which is more than can be said for most of our midfield.

12_Afonso Posted on 30/10/2010 19:29
Boyd is awful

Hes the top scorer in an under performing side. Hes far from awful.

sixtyniner69 Posted on 30/10/2010 19:46
Boyd is awful

read the data and explain why

boyd is our top scorer

the rest are worse

sometimes sh1t happens


Link: boro site

mwelolo Posted on 30/10/2010 19:49
Boyd is awful

Sh1t seems to be happening All the time form the Boro over the last few years.

RavsDad Posted on 30/10/2010 19:52
Boyd is awful

atarisdodds

I agree, we can all see it. Bates, who is a decent CB is being pished about and getting a reputation because of the farcical of the left back situation.

And whilst McManus is gash, if people were honest Wheaters hardly a force field himself. Comes to something when McMahon looked the class act in the back four [|)]

In every game 2 out of any four midfielders we pick are passengers. This puts extra pressure on our forwards. They need to deliver 3 goals per game for us to get the points.

So we're failing in every department simultaneously. Boyd is just one viable target in this mess.

bodmass Posted on 30/10/2010 19:58
Boyd is awful

I wouldn't expect him to 'run all over the place' either. However I would expect him to push up on defenders, put pressure on them by challenging for a few balls and make some forward runs into the channels. None of which he's doing effectively at the momment.

Personally I would drop him until he lost weight. Have him on a strict diet and keep him at Hurworth all day. Feed him his breakfast, lunch and tea then have him on an exercise bike for two hours in the morning then another two hours in the afternoon. The weight will soon drop off him.


Adi_Dem Posted on 30/10/2010 20:00
Boyd is awful

I saw him doing exactly that today bodmass. And scoring a good goal.

billdoor Posted on 30/10/2010 20:04
Boyd is awful

Aye he did do that, and he normally has more success challenging for headers, albeit usually with no-one near him to help collect the ball.

And am I the only one who doesn't see him as overweight? Seems to be something that's been latched onto and repeated.

Adi_Dem Posted on 30/10/2010 21:28
Boyd is awful

Agreed billdoor. Doesn't look overweight to me.

bodmass Posted on 30/10/2010 21:46
Boyd is awful

Perhaps it's his double chin or big arse that makes him look over weight or he could be just plain lazy.

The best Boro performances at home this season have been against Burnley and Reading both games in which he was dropped in favour of Lita. I don't think it was coincidence we produced our two best team performances without him.

If I was a Championship defender I'd far rather face a static Boyd than the pace, movement and aggresion of Lita.

sasboro1 Posted on 30/10/2010 22:03
Boyd is awful

30k a week, cant win headers, cant run, needs it on plate...sell him and get 3 championship level player on the same wages

SYDNEYSIDER Posted on 30/10/2010 23:03
Boyd is awful

Strikers aren't judged on workrate, skills on the ball etc. They are judged by goals. Boyd scored, what's your problem?

offside-again Posted on 30/10/2010 23:33
Boyd is awful

Boyd has been overall for me, a 6/10 so far this season, could be better yes, but no-where near as bad as some are making him out to be. [rle]

Main problem is lack of balance in the team and the defence as a whole, it's not any one individual, but if there is to be one then look no further than Nicky sodding Bailey. [cr]

He really is a disaster, he's that bad he should retire.

finchie Posted on 30/10/2010 23:37
Boyd is awful

Mowbray did say he wanted time to turn the old steamer around...I think he meant Boyd [:D]

JLinardi Posted on 31/10/2010 00:01
Boyd is awful

Boyd is far away from being our main worry, full backs and midfield should be 1st priority by far. Taylor is NOT the answer at full back either, forget about him and try and loan a new one in. Hoyte at right back was looking ok before his injury. In midfield we need a specialist wide player and an attack minded central midfielder. We are also desprate for viable options on the bench.

br14 Posted on 31/10/2010 01:41
Boyd is awful

"Boyd scored, what's your problem?"

Tony Mowbray suggested that had we put away one more of the countless chances we created in the first half, we'd have won the game. Boyd isn't consistent enough.

The facts are that we are creating chances (second half excluded perhaps), but that we don't have anyone to put them away on a regular basis.

Boyd got one today and looks to be a decent finisher when he connects, but all too often it doesn't work out.

Also he doesn't have the strength to hold off defenders and turn his man.

If Boyd stays on the park (he can finish), then we need someone to create knock downs for him to run on to so he's facing goal.

It sounds like Williams might do a job behind the front men, so if you want Boyd, McDonald will need to be replaced by a target man.

Don't think Boyd works with McDonald.

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 31/10/2010 05:05
Boyd is awful

sas - Make your mind up.

You've got Boyd down as being on £35,000p/w on the_dude's 'boyd is still overweight' thread, but only £30,000p/w on this one.

Which one are you going for?

Adi_Dem Posted on 31/10/2010 06:11
Boyd is awful

As I've already said I believe Boyd scored the one reasonable chance he had. He made an excellent run and took it well. Every other clear cut chance we had fell to another player.

_hachinger_jungs Posted on 31/10/2010 06:46
Boyd is awful

If you think Boyd is awful think yourself lucky you never had to watch the likes of David Shearer, Gary McDonald, David Currie @ Ray Hankin that us early 1980's punters had to endure!

mwelolo Posted on 31/10/2010 07:35
Boyd is awful

"I believe Boyd scored the one reasonable chance he had."

What about the one where he swiped at thin air a couple of yards from the goal in the first half, that being the most obvious one?

OPEO Posted on 31/10/2010 07:42
Boyd is awful

I believe if the defence had done their job today Boyd would be the man of the moment.(behind Mogga!)[:D]

mwelolo Posted on 31/10/2010 07:46
Boyd is awful

Absolutely no way.

This directly mirrrors the Alves scenario.

The Alves apologists defended him to the hilt then just went quiet as he slipped away.

joseph99 Posted on 31/10/2010 07:51
Boyd is awful

If you think Boyd is awful what words would you describe our midfield, the real reason we lost? You're barking up the wrong tree, he's a little immobile and has other weaknesses in his game but he's far from being the weakest kink in a pretty weak chain.

mwelolo Posted on 31/10/2010 07:54
Boyd is awful

He is a very significant part of the problem.

Yes there are problems elsewhere in the team, they are addressed in other threads.

joseph99 Posted on 31/10/2010 08:01
Boyd is awful

I'd like to see him play with proper midfield players, not the current bunch of spuds who would be incapable of seeing an opening in a brothel. Agree he could be fitter and more athletic.

mwelolo Posted on 31/10/2010 08:06
Boyd is awful

He could also apply himself further, put pressue on defenders and fight for fifty fifty balls in a way which would suggest that he wants to win them.

Dibzzz Posted on 31/10/2010 08:14
Boyd is awful

Even if we had good service to him, at this level he'd squander most of the chances, as he's proved already really.

We always go down the middle anyway, do you ever see him taking up a good position or getting involed? Do you fcuk.

I hope he proves me wrong and starts finding the net more regularly, I can't see it like, he'll be very lucky to reach 10 this season.

Adi_Dem Posted on 31/10/2010 09:15
Boyd is awful

How has he proven that already? I would wager with anyone that his chance to goal ratio is as good as most in the division, if not the country.

He is by no means a significant part of the problem.

He isn't the perfect striker and anyone that expects us to get perfection out of a free transfer in the position we're in is unrealistic at best and a bit daft at worst.

I see him take up good positions throughout the game, he makes intelligent movements and he always ends up on the end of most moves.

The chance you refer to lolo was not an easy one, it was better than his others, I accept that, but even if you took that as a presentable chance that's a 1 in 2 ratio which is the best you can hope for from most strikers.

Alves was a good finisher too. It didn't work out for him here and he wasn't worth the transfer fee but, again, he wasn't as bad as many believe. I certainly didn't go quiet on the subject. It just tends to be the case that when a player leaves he doesn't get mentioned as often!

Boromad Posted on 31/10/2010 09:23
Boyd is awful

If you all think Boyd is the problem then you really need to go and watch a different game. Yes he missed chances he would expect to put away. His confidence is low but he is top scorer in an awful side. He spent games earlier in the season not having one sniff of a chance.

If you want problems, then look at the back up he gets. Which other players are chipping in with goals?? If you want a bad striker, take a look at Lita, Miller. They are bad strikers. It's just easy to use him missing a few chances as a stick to beat him with because he came with a reputation, from a team that played with confidence week in week out.

Take him out of the side and replace him with Ishmael Miller. Then you'll see a poor goals to chances striker.

Adi_Dem Posted on 31/10/2010 09:24
Boyd is awful

Spot on boromad.

bear66 Posted on 31/10/2010 09:25
Boyd is awful

"I would wager with anyone that his chance to goal ratio is as good as most in the division, if not the country."

He looked deadly in the friendly where he had the goal not given for offside. I thought he'd score most chances he was given. His return from half-chance headers has been poor and yesterday there appeared to be some easy chances for a goal scorer to latch on to (about 5), most around the 6 yard box. What was he like in Scotland? Did he miss far more than he scored?

Dibzzz Posted on 31/10/2010 09:27
Boyd is awful

Spot on Bear [^]

Adi_Dem Posted on 31/10/2010 09:28
Boyd is awful

I didn't see it like that bear. I didn't think there were many clear cut chances for him other than the one he scored. All of our other best chances fel to other players and all were missed. He scored one of only 2 good chances (if you agree with lolo about the second chance). If we're looking to address the finishing problem in the side then he isn't it. Look at the good chances missed in the game by other players, look at the lack of goals from midfield.

fungus Posted on 31/10/2010 09:29
Boyd is awful

"I hope he proves me wrong and starts finding the net more regularly, I can't see it like, he'll be very lucky to reach 10 this season."

If he starts the majority of games he will easily reach 10 goals.

Adi_Dem Posted on 31/10/2010 09:30
Boyd is awful

He'll be closer to 20 than 10.

bear66 Posted on 31/10/2010 09:31
Boyd is awful

The closest was the Kink one. He was goal side and had plenty of time to get to the ball but he seemed to misjudge it. The others were further away, but he took a swing at the Tavares header and completely missed it. Once in a match for a goal scorer perhaps but not two. He looks a bit ungainly. I thought the three Alves chances versus Man City were much harder misses from 3-5 yds.

Adi_Dem Posted on 31/10/2010 09:33
Boyd is awful

That Kink one is harsh in the extreme. To say he should have done better is a bit much in my view.

Most goalscorers don't convert all of their chances and most would be happy with 1 in 3 even. I don't think he had anything like 3 clear chances yesterday though.

sasboro1 Posted on 31/10/2010 09:33
Boyd is awful

get him sold, save on his wages and get 3 championship players in either permanent or on loan who have abit of pace to worry defenders/midfielders. He is a luxury for a team near the bottom of the league. he might be able to stand and on hips for 80 minutes at rangers but where we are we need players who are there for the full 90 minutes.

for a big lad he never wins headers.

it wouldnt surprise me to see mowbray try to sell him in january so he can bring other players in. our wage bill must be a big concern at the moment

Boromad Posted on 31/10/2010 09:33
Boyd is awful

Some people either watched a different game or didn't watch the game at all. BOYD WAS NOT THE PROBLEM YESTERDAY.

The chances were missed by others, he took the best one he had.

Adi_Dem Posted on 31/10/2010 09:37
Boyd is awful

Get him sold? How on earth is that the answer sas? Who would you bring in?

So easy just to say get rid, he's no good when the reality is very different.

If you thought he stood, hands on hips and did nothing yesterday then I'm sorry you watched a different game to the one I did.

He is nowhere near the problem for this team. We are better with him playing and he is the only one in the squad that I would have any confidence in scoring the goals to move us up the table.

He will easily finish top scorer this season. Easily.

But hey, get rid we can get goals from elsewhere in the team!

Boromad Posted on 31/10/2010 09:38
Boyd is awful

Sas do you actually go to the games? If you do I would get yourself to the opticians mate. He won plenty of headers yesterday. If you want to point the finger at the front 2, MacDonald didn't actually read any of them.

Mavrick Posted on 31/10/2010 10:50
Boyd is awful

I think boyd has more to offer and the signs are there. He is winning a lot of balls in the air but both him and McDonald have no understanding of each other. Another player would benefit a lot from the second ball of boyd. I'd be tempted to start with lita and Boyd to see if they can develop a better partnership. Boyd unfortunately gets used as a climbing frame and hardly ever gets a call from the ref. He'll come good, the signs are there.

sasboro1 Posted on 31/10/2010 10:58
Boyd is awful

yes i do go to games. i get a excellent view in the east stand upper on halfway line.

sorry but not sure what game you watch because boyd rarely wins any headers. any rangers fans will tell you that too. the ball gets booted upto him but it comes straight back again after teh defender wins the header

mcdonald has to spend most of his time coming deep to get the ball. meanwhile boyd is stood about. waiting for the ball on a plate in the 6 yard box. far too lazy for the championship to worry defenders

Adi_Dem Posted on 31/10/2010 11:02
Boyd is awful

Sorry sas but he does win his fair share of headers. Yesterday he didn't though.

You bemoaned many recent players for dropping too deep, for chasing the ball and playing their football away from the penalty area and are now berating Boyd for doing what he does in and around the penalty box.

You say he is not going to worry defenders in this division but the fact is he does and is. He is our top scorer, best finisher by a country mile and could easily end up with 15 - 20 goals this season.

I don't want him dropping deep, he did it too often yesterday - he regularly dropped off, picked the ball up with his back to goal and laid it off.

He is a good player.

billdoor Posted on 31/10/2010 11:10
Boyd is awful

Get him sold[:D]

He's top scorer in a struggling team and will no doubt be top scorer at the end of the season.

Sas - who are these three cheap players we're going to bring in that will score more for us this season than Boyd?

sasboro1 Posted on 31/10/2010 11:19
Boyd is awful

billdoor, its the scouts and managers job to find 3 new players for his same wages. how much did Bothroyd Iwelumo Mackie Commons McGugan Parkin Sinclair Graham Sharp Somma Sordell Becchio Coppinger Eagles Hammill? all scored more goals than boyd. boyd isnt even in the top 20 goalscorers.

you have to look at the bigger picture, he is on massive wages and we need new players. we can add more depth to the squad. wage bill needs to come down. his overall contribution isnt enugh for a team near the bottom. he relies on the ball being 6 yards out. we dont have downing,johnson,gigges,ronaldo to do that

woodymfc Posted on 31/10/2010 11:22
Boyd is awful

sas [:D]

Adi_Dem Posted on 31/10/2010 11:22
Boyd is awful

So, basically, you have no-one to suggest then sas. Your view is just get rid of Boyd and replace him with 3 cheaper players and let's just hope they turn out to be OK?

How do you know how much he is on? How do you know we need to cut the wage bill?

Boyd was a free transfer and has shown himself to be a good finisher. Give him chances and he will score. Replace him with 3 cheaper versions and all the same problems exist but we don't have as good a finisher.

We need to address the problems we have, not deal with problems that don't actually exist.

gravyboat Posted on 31/10/2010 11:40
Boyd is awful

He needs to work harder in a struggling team at the wrong end of the division.

sasboro1 Posted on 31/10/2010 11:46
Boyd is awful

graveyboat,atlast someone with a bit of brains[^]

adi_dem, its not my job as a scout or manager to find these players. i've never heard of most of those strikers who have scored more than boyd this season. but they will be a lot cheaper and more of a threat than boyd. boyd needs to up his game more. we are not like rangers where we can wina game easily. wage bill needs to come down, we need new players so have to looka the top earners and move some of them on if we arnt getting value with them. b oyd is expensive for what he is just rellying on the ball on a plate.

oh, his dive in the 2nd half was terrible and needs to lose weight

Adi_Dem Posted on 31/10/2010 11:52
Boyd is awful

So only if someone agrees with you do they have brains!! [rle]

It's easy to hide behind that mantra. It's not your job to scout players but you're quite happy to judge one of the players we already have - that's not your job either.

Have you considered that maybe those other strikers are simply in better teams and that if you put them in our team they'd actually score less than Boyd?

Boyd is a threat. He scores goals. You want him to 'up his game' when in reality that won't make a blind bit of difference to our results. We need him to be in the box finishing off chances. In order to do that we need a team that functions properly. You are trying to address a problem that doesn't exist.

gravyboat Posted on 31/10/2010 12:02
Boyd is awful

Adi,

Aside from their natural talent, what makes players like Giggs and Tevez extra special? Work rate. Just because he's a 'goalscorer', it doesn't negate the need for him to put a shift in.

I agree with you that he, given the chances, will score a reasonable amount of goals. He does take up good positions. But you seem to be completely ignoring the fact that this team is not creating chance after chance, as we wouldn't be second bottom if we were. Therefore, he needs to offer more for the team whilst were in this position.

Pogatetz_Ate_My_Hamster Posted on 31/10/2010 12:07
Boyd is awful

Give him the ball in the box

and he will get you goals without doubt

Typical Boro fans we've not had a quality striker since The Yak left and he gets slated

Adi_Dem Posted on 31/10/2010 12:09
Boyd is awful

What I'm saying is that he could run around all game and it won't make a blind bit of difference to us.

We aren't in a position to sign top, top strikers. We get players that have flaws, by implication.

Not many top strikers chase all over the pitch, fight for every ball and then manage to finish off the chances as well. It's unrealistic.

Having said all of that, I have no problem with his efforts anyway. I don't think we need more from him. I think we need more from elsewhere in the team.


gravyboat Posted on 31/10/2010 12:10
Boyd is awful

Typical boro fans completely ignoring the fact we rarely get the ball 'in the box'. Do we just carry on letting him saunter around for the next 3 months until Mowbray sorts the rest of the team out?

billdoor Posted on 31/10/2010 12:13
Boyd is awful

Sas, a lot of those are in better teams and others are in a team that actually plays to their strengths. We signed a striker who needs service, and failed to provide it. Those players you mentioned wouldn't necessarily do well in this team either - you've quite literally just taken the list of top scorers in the division and names them without any kind of context to our team or the team they currently play at.

Look at the top ones - Bothroyd is playing at Cardiff who are just a different level to us atm. Mackie hasn't scored in 7 games so you'd be calling for his head. Iwelumo has 8, 3 of which came in one game against Preston. Then you have 6 or 7 players who are all playing at teams above us and have score either 1 or 2 goals more than Boyd.

That's a big fail of a post Sas.

Adi_Dem Posted on 31/10/2010 12:14
Boyd is awful

Well yes, not that I agree that he does just saunter around. The reason is twofold. Firstly, because we create few chances we need the best finisher on the pitch because his chance conversion is higher. Secondly, replacing him with someone that isn't as good a finisher but who can work hard will make not one iota of difference to our results.

billdoor Posted on 31/10/2010 12:16
Boyd is awful

Oh and some are midfielders which is just bizarre to suggest we sign those guys and ship out a striker.

joebonano Posted on 31/10/2010 12:16
Boyd is awful

Look he had 5 chances yesterday,scored with one,fresh aired 2 others and shanked 2 wide with his left foot.
In the home match with Portsmouth he had a similar number including being in on goal twice which he missed.
His movement is non existent,he cant create anything for himself,he's not good in the air.How anybody can think he's a good use of £25kperweek about 4 times the average wage in this League is beyond me.
Tell his agent to get him another club in January.We dont need a fee just move him out and use the money elsewhere.

Adi_Dem Posted on 31/10/2010 12:16
Boyd is awful

Spot on again billdoor.

Adi_Dem Posted on 31/10/2010 12:20
Boyd is awful

That's simply not true joebonana. He scored the once good chance he had. The rest (and he only had a couple, not 5) were half chances at best.

Use the money elsewhere? On who and what?

This simple suggestion that we just 'get rid' of people and replace them is naive nonsense.

sasboro1 Posted on 31/10/2010 12:21
Boyd is awful

spot on joebonano. supposed to be a finisher but isnt even in the top 20 strikers in this league and need it on a plate to score a goal. yesterday was just a tap in. should have scored 2 more. he is an expensive signing and on top wages, we need fresh players so some big earner might have to be moved on.

Oooo Posted on 31/10/2010 12:21
Boyd is awful

Boyd did score - good. But to say give him the ball and he will score is just factually incorrect as yesterday proved. He had one very clear cut chance with just the keeper to beat and missed the ball completely with his shooting boot and it rebounded off his other - my grandmother of 102 could have scored that!

ste_north_stand Posted on 31/10/2010 12:23
Boyd is awful

He is a striker, he scored and he's getting slated? Am i missing something?

Adi_Dem Posted on 31/10/2010 12:24
Boyd is awful

Again, I don't agree. That wasn't an easy chance by any means and it's the only other one he had.

He's not in the top 20 strikers sas because he is in a poor side. Why are you ignoring that?

billdoor Posted on 31/10/2010 12:25
Boyd is awful

"isnt even in the top 20 strikers in this league"

Again, that's rubbish. Show me the list of strikers and the number of goals they've scored.

Boyd has four in a struggling team, to start you off. Also hasn't played every game.

List of 20 strikers doing better please.

Oooo Posted on 31/10/2010 12:28
Boyd is awful

ste - yes he is a striker and yes he scored but he should have scored more given the chances. I think the only way you can rate a striker is his conversion ratio i.e. how many chances he puts away. Boyds is not good enough yet but stil prefer to have him than not!

ste_north_stand Posted on 31/10/2010 12:31
Boyd is awful

Personally if he scores 1 goal a game and misses 6 sitters that's good enough for me. Every striker will miss chances, aslong as they stick one away that will do me.

sasboro1 Posted on 31/10/2010 12:34
Boyd is awful

here is the top 15 for you after a quick look on bbc

i'll find the top 20 later


Link: top 15

gravyboat Posted on 31/10/2010 12:35
Boyd is awful

Adi,

He's a lazy player. To suggest otherwise is 'naive nonsense'. The fact Rangers and Scotland fans think the same suggests its true.

I understand players at this level have flaws, but Boyd's flaws are he runs like a cart-horse, and is terrible at holding the ball up. Those are things that he can't do much about, but he can do something about putting in a bit of graft.

In a team that is constantly at the top of the league and creating 20 chances a game, he can get away with a low workrate, but in a struggling team, fighting for its life, its not good enough.

Oh, and the suggestion that strikers closing down defenders makes no difference is a load of ballacks n'all.

bear66 Posted on 31/10/2010 12:36
Boyd is awful

12 of the 24 teams in that list

ste_north_stand Posted on 31/10/2010 12:40
Boyd is awful

He is lazy, i don't know why this surprises people? It's well documented all through his career. For years we have been crying out for a poacher, we now have one and what do you want him to do? Tear round like a headless chicken for 90 minutes ending up in positions where isn't going to hurt the opposition? He is what he is, provide him with good, consistent service and we will score an absolute boatload.

Adi_Dem Posted on 31/10/2010 12:40
Boyd is awful

It's not naive nonsense. It comes from actually watching him play. He isn't terrible at holding the ball up either.

What I actually said that him putting more effort in won't make any difference to this team, not that it makes no difference full stop.

If you are asking me to agree that him putting in more work this season would have fundamentally changed our results then I'm sorry but I can't agree with you.

billdoor Posted on 31/10/2010 12:43
Boyd is awful

"here is the top 15 for you after a quick look on bbc"

Commons isn't a striker
McGugan isn't a striker
Coppinger isn't a striker
Eagles isn't a striker
Hamill is mroe of a winger

That removes five of them, leaving you with ten players who have scored more, and seven of them are at teams hanging around the promotion/play off spots.

You're getting to players who have scored either one or two goals more than Boyd. So all in all, not a massive improvement.

joebonano Posted on 31/10/2010 12:44
Boyd is awful

Tm in todays Sunday Sun talks of getting rid of players in January to get the wage bill down.Surely Boyd and GON who is reportedly the top earner at the club on £30k per week are the two prime targets.
At other Championship clubs this would fund about 9 Championship players.
Are they value for money-absolutely not in my book.

sasboro1 Posted on 31/10/2010 12:47
Boyd is awful

so they arnt strikers but scored more than our striker who needs it on a plate[:o)] think about what you wrote...


joebonano, this is the thing. we are skint. we havent budgetted for another season in the championship(or league one). the parachute payments will have gone. we will have to start preparing for next season and get the wage bill down. gibson said we still have a wage bill up there with some premier league sides..its not sustainable..we have to look at the finances side of things now.

PinkPonce Posted on 31/10/2010 12:48
Boyd is awful

Dear me ... Does anyone else cringe when reading Sas' posts [:D] ...

Adi is absolutely spot on in my opinion ... I had exactly the same discussion with Sas a few days ago and then he couldn't tell me who we should sign ...

It's also hilarious to watch him suggest getting rid of Boyd to reduce the wage bill, but then he's going out and buying 3 more players [:D] ...

I'm gonna wet myself ...

PP ... x

gravyboat Posted on 31/10/2010 12:48
Boyd is awful

He IS terrible at holding the ball up, IMO.

I just want a bit more from him in a struggling team. I think that's perfectly reasonable.


billdoor Posted on 31/10/2010 12:59
Boyd is awful

"so they arnt strikers but scored more than our striker who needs it on a plate[:o)] think about what you wrote..."

[|)]

Sas, it indicates that their team and their midfield is actually coherent, unlike ours. It also indicates that their team has midfielders who chip in and take some pressure off the strikers.

Examples:
Commons - 7 goals. Boyd has more goals than any other Derby player.
McGugan - 7 goals. Only Blackstock has as many as Boyd (4)
Coppinger - 5 goals. Sharp (Billy, not Graeme) has 6, two more than Boyd, who has mor ethan any other Doncaster player.
Eagles - 6 goals. Only Iwelumo has more goals than Boyd. 5 of his 8 goals were the result of two good matches.
Hammill - 5 goals. Boyd has more goals than any other Barnsley player.

gravyboat Posted on 31/10/2010 13:00
Boyd is awful

Ponce,

Sas called it right about Strachan long before most other people, me included.

I know he's not the best at looking on the brightside [smi], but I find it difficult to argue with him at the moment. This lot are awful, and with the exception of young Williams, I wouldn't be bothered if every one of them was sold.

sasboro1 Posted on 31/10/2010 13:02
Boyd is awful

"I just want a bit more from him in a struggling team. I think that's perfectly reasonable. "


i agree, very poor return. Also he needs to start creating for other players too. good strikers have good movement, make defenders work hard and chip in with creating chances for other players. he is too 1 dimensional. boro always struggle against pacy strikers. i think thats where most teams go for now. maybe mowbray will look to bring some pace upfront

Gravyboat, i'm looking ahead. to next season. promotion has gone..too many defeats already even for the play offs now. club will start to cut their cloth accordingly. you would think fans would see that the numbers dont add up at the moment (wage bill,quality of squad and revenue) somethign will have to give as mowbray will want his own players in. get rid of 4 big earners and you have saved yourself £5m a years straight away. at the moment its not sustainable

Adi_Dem Posted on 31/10/2010 13:03
Boyd is awful

gravy, sas has slated every one of our managers almost as soon as they were appointed. Given that most managers are sacked, he's always going to be right some of the time!

Adi_Dem Posted on 31/10/2010 13:08
Boyd is awful

So you want a striker that works hard, chases the ball, holds it up, wins headers, creates chances and scores the majority of his chances.

In the same thread you said we're skint.

Erm. OK then.

Pogatetz_Ate_My_Hamster Posted on 31/10/2010 13:10
Boyd is awful

Some people are never satisfied

I'd rather see him stood in the box ready to receive the ball to possibly score than have him running round like a headless chicken to please some clueless people.

bear66 Posted on 31/10/2010 13:12
Boyd is awful

He'd be offside every time then

A group of average to poor runners beat us yesterday . . . a team of average runners (Cardiff) will win the league

joebonano Posted on 31/10/2010 13:12
Boyd is awful

I know it is a theoretical arguement because he has been released and is now out injured but personally I'd far rather have a player like Aliadiere than Boyd.[and I cant believe I'm saying because I was not his biggest fan either]
Boyd will never give an assist,never move a defence around with pace and movement,never close down from the front.To justify himself he has to bury virtually everything that drops to him to make up for the team having to carry a virtual passeneger.Unfortunately his conversion rate isnt good either.Out of the five chances he had yesterday and against Portsmouth he missed the target on 8 occasions.Simply not good enough .

gravyboat Posted on 31/10/2010 13:12
Boyd is awful

Adi,

I know, I've had many arguments with him from your side of the fence!

But (through luck or not!), he called it right about Strachan, and he's right to say that considering the clubs relative budget we are in a terrible position. The players aren't good enough, and don't hurt teams enough. We have nobody - with the possible exception of a 17 year old kid - that can do anything out of the ordinary. We are horribly predictable, and I wouldn't be at all bothered if Mogga got rid of all of them and started again.

Adi_Dem Posted on 31/10/2010 13:14
Boyd is awful

I don't disagree with any of that. I just disagree that Boyd is part of the problem.

Pogatetz_Ate_My_Hamster Posted on 31/10/2010 13:15
Boyd is awful

"I know it is a theoretical arguement because he has been released and is now out injured but personally I'd far rather have a player like Aliadiere than Boyd.[and I cant believe I'm saying because I was not his biggest fan either]
Boyd will never give an assist,never move a defence around with pace and movement,never close down from the front.To justify himself he has to bury virtually everything that drops to him to make up for the team having to carry a virtual passeneger.Unfortunately his conversion rate isnt good either.Out of the five chances he had yesterday and against Portsmouth he missed the target on 8 occasions.Simply not good enough ."

Laughable.

Did you think Ravanelli was rubbish aswell?

Bet you think Gary O'Neil is our best midfielder aswell, he runs alot

gravyboat Posted on 31/10/2010 13:16
Boyd is awful

Why, when I suggest one of our biggest earning players should work a bit harder, do clueless people insist on talking about him 'running around like a headless chicken'?

We're second bottom of the league, we've been awful all season, and we cant score goals. Work a bit harder. It's not asking much.

mwelolo Posted on 31/10/2010 13:17
Boyd is awful

From trhe start Boyd was the wrong signing for a team who do not create a glut of chances.

Whilst we have him we need more from him.Aside from the fact that he misses sitters he is offering very little to the forward line.

If he shows and competes a bit more for the ball or puts a bit more pressure on the defenders he will inevitably make more things happen for the team.(I have not mentioned running all over the pitch)

Over the course of a season this would probably lead to more goals. How can that be a bad thing?

How on earth can people say they are entirely happy with what he is doing and they don't expect or want anything more from him?

It beggars belief.

bear66 Posted on 31/10/2010 13:19
Boyd is awful

Rav was moaned and groaned at in most of his later games . . . even more so at away games. If he scored the simple ones (like vs Sunderland?) then there wouldn't have been the moaning and groaning. Rav would have been treated harshly if he missed as many as yesterday . .

gravyboat Posted on 31/10/2010 13:19
Boyd is awful

He's not the biggest problem by any means, but his inability to contribute anything to the team unless he's given a chance on a plate, is in my opinion, a problem.

Adi_Dem Posted on 31/10/2010 13:21
Boyd is awful

It doesn't really. He is exactly the player I expected. I don't think his workrate is anywhere near as bad as some make out. I think he does win a lot of headers and that he does compete.

He is there to score goals and to suggest that he is awful is just plainly wrong in my opinion.

Pogatetz_Ate_My_Hamster Posted on 31/10/2010 13:22
Boyd is awful

What do you mean by work harder?

He's a striker, his job is to get in the box and score.

Rooney is an infuriating player for me personally when he plays for England (I don't care what he does for Man Utd), he tracks back so deep all the time to win the ball. If he's successful in getting the ball back his team then have nobody forward to pass to as he's back in a defensive posistion.

A striker's job is to get in the box. We have McDonald to run the channels. If both of them did that who'd be in the box? The one time Boyd did run the right channel and look to cross into the box yesterday who was there? McDonald and 7 Bristol City players.

Pogatetz_Ate_My_Hamster Posted on 31/10/2010 13:23
Boyd is awful

"Rav would have been treated harshly if he missed as many as yesterday"

Rubbish he scored his only genuine chance

McDonald was a bigger culprit

joebonano Posted on 31/10/2010 13:24
Boyd is awful

O.K Pogatetz our goals scored column is pathetic .Away from home it is the worst in the whole football League.WHY?Clearly part of the problem is that Boyd?macdonald are too slow and cant get behind a defence.We cant counterattack anymore because all pace has been removed from the team by Strachan with the precision of a surgeon.
Boyd cant lead the line,is shyte in the air ,cant hold the ball up and is slow.Right or wrong?He is exactly what we were told by the Rangers fans except that they suggested he was dead eye dick when it came to taking chances.He isnt and the team is better off without him.
Our two best performances this season[Burnley and Reading at home]and Guess what?.Boyd was on the bench and Macdonald linked up a lot better with the more mobile Lita.
You need to take your blinkers off mate.

Adi_Dem Posted on 31/10/2010 13:25
Boyd is awful

Right or wrong?

Wrong. Simple as that.

mwelolo Posted on 31/10/2010 13:26
Boyd is awful

"I think he does win a lot of headers and that he does compete."

I fundamentally disagree he is not nearly strong enough on the ball, he rarely seems to bust a gut to get on the end of anything and I never ever fancy him for a 50 50 ball.


Adi_Dem Posted on 31/10/2010 13:27
Boyd is awful

I know you do. Not to worry. Not much more to say really.

Pogatetz_Ate_My_Hamster Posted on 31/10/2010 13:30
Boyd is awful

Wrong Wrong Wrong

The problem is we have no width, if we had actual wide players with pace it wouldn't be an issue. Boyd coming deep to chase the ball would make no difference whatsoever.

mwelolo Posted on 31/10/2010 13:30
Boyd is awful

I just think it is interesting that this thread so closely mirrors the debate around the Alves debacle - and we all know what happened there.

Raoul_Duke Posted on 31/10/2010 13:31
Boyd is awful

He isn't as bad as some are making out on this thread, but a major worry for me is how often he seems to be caught on his heels.

Adi_Dem is right when he says having Boyd chase every defender down like a headless chicken isn't necessarily going to affect our results, but the amount of times Boyd shanks a shot wide, fails to connect with a cross, or doesn't win a header when crosses come into the box suggests he isn't being proactive enough.

The Kink header across goal was a case in point. I'm not suggesting it was a gilt edged chance for Boyd, but when it came close to him he seemed shocked and simply stuck a foot out instead of moving towards the ball. In other words he wasn't on his toes. Whether that is a confidence thing, a concentration issue or he is carrying too much weight is a problem for Mowbray to sort out.

The loan signing of Ishmael Miller looks imperative. For some reason our current set of strikers do not complement each other at all. When Lita, Boyd and McDonald were on the pitch, it was actually startling to see them all take up the same position at the back post for a cross. The Bristol defence could have thrown a blanket over them.

Adi_Dem Posted on 31/10/2010 13:35
Boyd is awful

I just don't think that Kink chance was anything other than the ball just being slightly too far away. I can't see how Boyd can be blamed.

Alves was a similar situation because I still believe he would have scored goals for us had the team been built to suit him. It wasn't and he will always be judged a failure.

Boyd is different in that he is actually scoring goals.

LeeMiller Posted on 31/10/2010 13:36
Boyd is awful

Boyd is a goal scorer end of!
He can't play on his own up front. He needs a big donkey to all that graft.

I'll do it. I'm getting paid for it!!

joebonano Posted on 31/10/2010 13:38
Boyd is awful

Actually Duke that is a reasonable post.
I was quite astonished when we scored yesterday in that there was a link up between the two strikers.That is the first time in one third of a season.
Macdonald did far better at Cletic when he wasnt dropping deep to get the ball all the time and was feeding off a genuine target man.They are not the right mix of strikers whatever you think of either of them.

Raoul_Duke Posted on 31/10/2010 13:39
Boyd is awful

I'm not saying it was Boyd's fault, it wasn't a fantastic chance. What I am saying is that he reacted too slowly.

It doesn't make him a bad player, but he clearly isn't firing on all cylinders.

Boromad Posted on 31/10/2010 15:57
Boyd is awful

Boyd's biggest problem is confidence. Yesterday and against Portsmouth we created chances for him. In the other games we've given him nothing at all. You have to be one hell of a striker to convert chances just like that when you haven't been getting them. the problem is the supply and the support for him.

I work with a Rangers season ticket holder. He was gutted to see Boyd leave along with Thomson. How many of you on here actually know Rangers fans who go to the games?

And people saying that they would prefer Alliadiere is just laughable. He couldn't score goals and he couldn't create. So where does that get us?

People criticise Boyd for getting big wages. He does, so what, that's not his fault. Lita is also on decent wages but you have to put a dozen chances in front of him in this side to score 1.

The problems are elsewhere. At left fullback and on the wings.

chimpy07 Posted on 31/10/2010 16:11
Boyd is awful

[V] Slagging players in post like this is awful [^]

sasboro1 Posted on 06/11/2010 18:53
Boyd is awful

so do people still prefer boyd over lita/,mcdonald partnership. we are far more effective as a team with them two playing. scored 2 goals once boyd went off. lita works hard and compliments mcdonald. can see a good aprtneship there. mcdonald cant plkay with boyd and we dont have the wide players to put the ball on a plate for boyd.

Adi_Dem Posted on 06/11/2010 18:56
Boyd is awful

I certainly do Sas.

Lita did well when he came on but for me he wasn't the reason we won the game. Mowbray pushing our full backs on, the midfield getting a grip of the ball and feeding it into those fullbacks and those fullbacks delivering cross after cross were the reasons.

I look at it differently. Boyd in the box with those second half crosses and you'd see how good he can be.

billdoor Posted on 06/11/2010 18:56
Boyd is awful

Sas[:D]

No-one did themselves any favours in the first half, McDonald was as bad as anyone.

I'd liked to have seen Boyd on the end of some of McMahon's balls into the box tbh.

sasboro1 Posted on 06/11/2010 19:01
Boyd is awful

mcdonald was bad i agree but his game improved so much once lita was on the pitch. it gave him confidence and his control improved. i jsut dont think boyd works with mcdonald. boyd needs a target man to thrive of knock downs. lita and mcdonald compliment each other and you can clearly see we improve when they are together. i think there is potential for a good partnership.

Adi_Dem Posted on 06/11/2010 19:03
Boyd is awful

Sas, the entire team played better in the second half. I don't think that Lita was the single reason. People have short memories. He isn't that good of a player. Put Boyd in a team that played as well as we did in the second half and you will see how good a player he actually is.

sasboro1 Posted on 06/11/2010 19:08
Boyd is awful

"Put Boyd in a team that played as well as we did in the second half and you will see how good a player he actually is."

wasnt he taken off half time because he was rubbish and the change helped us play better in the 2nd. lita gave the defenders a tougher time.

bodmass Posted on 06/11/2010 19:14
Boyd is awful

Lita made a big difference when he came on. His pace, aggression and movement into the channels forced the Palace defence into playing narrow which created space for the fullbacks to attack.

We don't know what Boyd would be like on the end of good crosses because when he's on the pitch we don't create enough. He doesn't work hard enough to unsettle defences and in the first half Palace were far too comfortable at the back.

For me its no coincidence that every time Lita gets a decent run out at home we win the game (Today, Burnley and Reading)

Adi_Dem Posted on 06/11/2010 19:24
Boyd is awful

As I say short memories.

Whenever Lita gets a run in the side he doesn't deliver. Boyd has 3 in his last 6 games.

Lita did well when he came on, no doubt. However, he wasn't the reason the game changed but he contributed. The team functioned better second half for a number of reasons.

As I keep on saying if you think playing Lita instead of Boyd fixes any of our problems then I simply can't and won't agree.

billdoor Posted on 06/11/2010 19:48
Boyd is awful

Aye, you can't make a judgement according to this game because a) the whole team was below-par in the first half and b) Mowbray's main change was to tell both full backs to push up as often as possible in the second half, more than Lita being on the pitch. For me, Lita spends most of his time either trying to get a cheap free kick or trying to get away with one.

I do agree to an extent though that Boyd and McDonald may not turn out to be a naturally good partnership. I don't think that Lita and McDonald are either though.

gravyboat Posted on 06/11/2010 19:57
Boyd is awful

This is potentially a never ending argument, but I just think we look more dynamic when Boyd isn't in the side. He looks laboured and sluggish. Lita has many faults, but he gives centre-half an uncomfortable time. Both he and Mcdonald chase and harried, and it allows the full-backs and the midfield to push on.

If I was a centre-half, I'd love playing against Boyd.

gravyboat Posted on 06/11/2010 20:03
Boyd is awful

Also, Id be interested to know our points/ goals ratio with and without Boyd. I genuinely have no idea, so it might even be better with him in!

Adi_Dem Posted on 06/11/2010 20:05
Boyd is awful

There aren't that many games we have got points in!!!

Lita just doesn't do it for me.

Boromart Posted on 06/11/2010 20:09
Boyd is awful

I don't think Lita has ever really had a run in the side though. I can only recall one 5 or 6 game spell under Southgate, he barely got a kick under Strachan. It's sad to say but Lita is easily our best forward.

I don't think Lita McDonald is the answer either, Lita's best form in his career was at Reading alongside a big strong targetman man. I would try and get some old campaigner alongside him or a loan target man.

Jonny_Ingbar Posted on 06/11/2010 20:11
Boyd is awful

At this moment in time Lita ia the better option and thats probably not just my opinion, I dont think he'll start on Tuesday.

Lita make a huge difference today and despite not being as effective a finisher as Boyd he holds the ball up much better and works the channels well.

Adi_Dem Posted on 06/11/2010 20:11
Boyd is awful

He really isn't our best forward. Why has he not been given a run? Not good enough.

gravyboat Posted on 06/11/2010 20:12
Boyd is awful

If we can reach a position whereby were playing with confidence and creating chances at will, Boyd would get his fair share. Whilst were fighting and scrapping and trying to impose ourselves on teams with work rate and fight, he doesn't warrant a place.

newyddion Posted on 06/11/2010 20:15
Boyd is awful

Kink--Lita--Williams

Adi_Dem Posted on 06/11/2010 20:16
Boyd is awful

I'd say when we're fighting for our lives he is exactly what we need. He is the best finisher at the club and we need goals.

You're right though, we could go round in this circle for some time!!

Boromart Posted on 06/11/2010 20:29
Boyd is awful

why has he not been given a run? Because WGS didn't like him.

When he arrived at the club he had been training on his own and wasn't fit, so for Southgates last 3 months he was mainly used as a sub.

His Boro record is 9 goals in 29 starts and 23 sub appearances. It's about a goal 270 mins. Boyd has got 4 in 11 starts and 3 subs, which is only marginally better than Lita's scoring rate.

When you factor in that Lita actually does something between scoring then he is a much better all round player than Boyd.

Adi_Dem Posted on 06/11/2010 20:31
Boyd is awful

Sorry but on those figures Boyd's isn't just marginally better.

Southgate brought him here and even he didn't give him a run in the team.

The reason is simple, he fails to deliver and is a better player from the bench.


southwestupperman Posted on 06/11/2010 21:03
Boyd is awful

Boyd is sh&t, you will see better players in the Teesside sunday league!!

mwelolo Posted on 07/11/2010 10:01
Boyd is awful

This is just Alves again.

The Boyd apologists will gradually fall away, the heroic defence of him will become increasing rare then he will move on and everyone will agree he was crap for us.

Adi_Dem Posted on 07/11/2010 10:21
Boyd is awful

So not like Alves at all then. I've never changed my view on him and I won't about Boyd.

mwelolo Posted on 07/11/2010 10:28
Boyd is awful

Exactly like Alves.

I remember you procaliming that Alves would grace ANY team in the Premiership.

Funny that he eventually slipped off to Qatar.

Adi_Dem Posted on 07/11/2010 10:38
Boyd is awful

Erm, no I didn't. It's very easy to make things up, isn't it?

What I actually said was that if he were in any top team he would score goals. I also said that if we set our team up properly he would score goals for us. That's a world away from saying he was fir to grace any team in the Premiership.

So please don't make things up to make people look silly.

I stand by both of those statements by the way.

Boyd will score goals. Simple as that.

sixtyniner69 Posted on 07/11/2010 10:38
Boyd is awful

from the stats the best choice would look to be kink and boyd which is not what i would have chosen from watching the games

mcdonald i in 1200 = 1200 min/goal
boyd 4 goals in 1018 min = 254min/goal
kink 3 in 406 = 136 min/goal
lita 1 in 663 = 663 min/goal
miller 0 in 7
williams 0 in 283



Link: official

mwelolo Posted on 07/11/2010 10:41
Boyd is awful

Adi that is exactly what you said, I challenged it at the time and you defended it.

I think you are getting a touch of the old amnesia again Adi!

Adi_Dem Posted on 07/11/2010 10:47
Boyd is awful

No I didn't. That is certainly not what I said. If you want to make stuff up to suit your argument then that's a matter for you.

I have just searched catflaporama. No such threads appear I'm afraid so you're either making it up or thinking of someone else.

gravyboat Posted on 07/11/2010 10:48
Boyd is awful

So, the reason Alves didn't score goals is because the team 'wasn't set up right'.

And, to get the best out of Boyd, we have to get the rest of the team to play to his strengths.

There's a pattern here, isn't there?

Adi_Dem Posted on 07/11/2010 10:50
Boyd is awful

Yes there is, we have to start getting a team that has balance and functions correctly rather than simply replace strikers. It's the only way we will improve.

Boromart Posted on 07/11/2010 11:33
Boyd is awful

thing is Boyd isn't a good enough player to build a team around and to be honest playing Lita and buying a strapping 6 foot brickshythouse to play alongside is a much cheaper option than the 5 + players you would need to get the necessary goals out of Boyd.

Besides the current squad isn't really capable of creating enough for him and the transfer window is shut, so it's pointless playing/starting Boyd until after christmas.

Adi_Dem Posted on 07/11/2010 11:35
Boyd is awful

I am not talking about building a team around Boyd. Boyd is irrelevant. I'm saying we need a team that functions properly, which we don't currently have, to get the best out of Boyd or whoever else is up front.

We have a big bloke in Miller. Are you seriouslt saying that we should stick Miller and Lita up front and that's the team sorted?