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scoea Posted on 10/03/2008 17:36
Perspective

I got a bit of stick on another thread for saying that I would always renew. I hope nobody minds but I started typing this and before I knew it there was an essay. This is why I will always renew.

Despite everything, I still enjoy the matchday experience and I still want to go along and support the club I have spent an entire life with.

I was a season ticket holder at Ayresome and it is a major part of my life, through thick and thin. That's not daft and I doubt that it's loyal. I just think it's something that I will always love to do, even in the really dark times.

Let's face facts, and I'm as guilty as anyone of over doing it, yesterday was nowhere near as black a day as I have seen as a Boro fan.

I started going to games with my brother and late grandad when I was 10 or 11 years old. I was at the Zenith Data Systems Final.

I remember parking up on any one of the streets near the ground, I remember going into the Westminster before games and having to get there 2 hours early to miss the traffic (one of my Grandad's little idiosyncrasies) before then going down the cobbled street, past the TV repair shop and through the old red gates.

I remember seeing Joe Hunt in his tiny office before the game and getting an early teamsheet with true greats on it like Mogga.

I remember the old rickety stairs, the terrible, terrible toilets that seemed to have bats nests in the roof. I even remeber the smell and I certainly remember the view of the pitch.

I remember watching some real legends, some genuine heroes playing their hearts out for the club and I remember getting a football education that can only be gotten at Boro.

I remember woeful nights in the cold and wet with 3000 fans in the ground and a defeat to yet another team full of journeymen.

I remember being excited about the loan signing of Jon Gannon, the thrill of watching Ripley run down the wing or Ian Baird smack into another centre half.

I remember Robbo taking over and everything changing almost overnight. I remember the first steps I took up to the Riverside seating and seeing the pitch for the first time. I remember Juninho signing - I was there when he did - and I remember his tears as we went down.

I watched my Grandad spend his entire life wanting us to get to Wembley in the FA Cup Final before he died and then I remember it finally happening and seeing tears in his eyes as the teams walked out.

I remember winning at Cardiff, the unbridled euphoria that went with it and I remember sitting next to the Eindhoven buses dreaming about what might have been.

I look forward to watching them all of my life. They're my team and always will be. I look forward to taking my son and daughter and telling them all about Rioch, Lennie Lawrence and the delights of the Andy Peake slide rule ball.

And I agree, the game has moved on the extent that there really isn't any sort of relationship between fan and player any more. But I don't care, it's about far more than that for me. This may well be sentimental rubbish that is sneered at by some of the more cretinous board members but fine.

If that makes me a sell out, if it makes me daft, if it makes me a mug then so be it.


joebonano Posted on 10/03/2008 17:41
Perspective

Well said mate. After what happened yesterday I think it shows some real courage to put that up

Boromad Posted on 10/03/2008 17:42
Perspective

Bang on Scoea. That's why most of us will renew.

rob_fmttm Posted on 10/03/2008 17:43
Perspective

Yes that is one phenomenal post.

whale_oil_beef_hooked Posted on 10/03/2008 17:47
Perspective

You have just said everything that is Boro...ime 49 and have seen the highs and mostly lows...like you Ayresome park with some good and some real bad players, not all highly paid like the ones we have now.
I was also at the zenith cup final, did not get to the coca cola final but went to the replay at hillsbrough, went to the FA cup final and saw the fastest goal ever....wrong end though.
But yesterday was a disaster which will cost the club a fortune in lost revenue.
To be a Boro supporter you have to take the highs and lows, its been like that for years and ohh i wish it would change.....Onward and upward.


UP THE BORO !!

Holgatewall Posted on 10/03/2008 17:48
Perspective

I aggree with a lot of what you say. I have memories of people like my dad who took me to my first game when I was 6. He always told me they would break my heart. I could stand it then ( maybe because my expectation were lower). I remember the bad days and the great days when we beat West Ham with:Moore, Hurst and Peters. I remember the great games against Manchester United and Hicktons goal.

As i said I aggree with some of what you said but to me the magic has gone. Leave me with my memories of Hickton and games against West ham and manchester United when players went out and fought for the club.

Yesterday i watched that game and i just felt sick at the end of it. Spinelesss, passionless and to add insult to injury apparently Arca having a go at a supporter who had the temerity to have a go at him about his performance.

I have heard the club have a go at the fans for not encouraging the team. (What a joke).

As my dad said 'son they will reak your heart'. Yesterday they did that. But today got up and got on with my life and to be honest, I am not sure i want to be part of this game any more.To much greed and fans are treated with disdain.

Bandy Posted on 10/03/2008 17:52
Perspective

Scoea, glad you posted this again. It's stirring stuff. I can relate to the grandad stories. I lost mine on saturday and am so fkin annoyed at how things panned out on sunday. I was certain of a victory

dooderooni Posted on 10/03/2008 17:52
Perspective

scoea, I've seen and done all of that too.

I've also seen us under Charlton, with Murdoch, Souness, Boam, Maddren and Craggs.

I've seen us relying on Billy Woof and David Currie.

I've been to Oldham to see us get tortured on a plastic pitch for the umpteenth time.

I've seen us lose on more occassions than I can recall but I've never felt so utterly distanced from the club as I do now.

For me it's one kick in the teeth too many and I've had enough.

The Boro will always be part of me, wherever I go, but I look on them like an ex-girlfriend rather than as someone I care passionately about.

Considering I've been called a Ra-Ra in the past it's a bit surprising that I feel like I do now.

bigrichardthe4th Posted on 10/03/2008 17:54
Perspective

i remember all of that too ,..................................
but i also remember sunday...

whale_oil_beef_hooked Posted on 10/03/2008 17:55
Perspective

David Currie

His name came up in a conversation at work today, after he finished playing he was a scaffolders mate at Corus, then BSC.

He only wanted to work till he was 33 or 36 because once he got to that age he was going to get a £7000 per week pension !!!!!

papajohn Posted on 10/03/2008 17:56
Perspective

Scoea you are not unique in your experiences, you are not a snowflake. Dont expect us all to feel the same as you.

The relationship between players and fans has been hanging by a thread for many years yesterday the thread broke for me and it seems a lot of others.

NedKat Posted on 10/03/2008 17:56
Perspective

Great post, Scoea ! Send it to the Gazette !!!

People are upset and disappointed right now, but they'll be back, they always come back. Truth is, I can remember much worse times than yesterday. Crikey, back in 1986 we nearly lost the club altogether, and there was certain games where defeat was much worse than losing to Cardiff in the FA Cup quarter final... Blimey, falling three divisions, and me coming home from sea to watch the odd game, and wondering where the hell all the other Boro supporters had got too?

joebonano Posted on 10/03/2008 17:57
Perspective

Holgate I see where you are coming fromand I agree.However Steve Gibson has given all of us who go back a while a ride that has bordered on fantasy for a lot of fans who have passed away.The game isnt the same but Steve Gibson is one of us and I hav'nt got it in me to turn my back on him.

moxzin Posted on 10/03/2008 18:02
Perspective

scoea - very interesting stuff but it still doesn't change the sheer wanton waste of an historic opportunity - thats what sticks in the craw.

Its not about where we've been before, but where we could have gone. In our 142 years in existence, every single fan has dreamed about the FA Cup, and we just go and do that. If we're putting things in perspective, I think we'll probably be thinking about this match in 10 years time. I certainly think I'll be relating it to a psychiatrist one day.

NedKat Posted on 10/03/2008 18:05
Perspective

Yes it was a wasted opportunity, and yes ... that does hurt. 10,000 extra fans turn up, and the club has a chance to convert at least some of them into full time fans. They blew the lot !!!


ayresomemark Posted on 10/03/2008 18:06
Perspective

encore encore!

scoea Posted on 10/03/2008 18:25
Perspective

Look, this isn't me saying look what a loyal fan I am. I don't think I'm unique and I am as frustrated and annoyed as anyone - just read my posts since yesterday.

This started out as a reply to an accusation that I was a mug and daft for renewing. It is me justifying my renewal, nothing more and nothing less.

I doubt I'll ever get over yesterday, in the same way that I haven't truly got over Eindhoven or the Hillsborough game or the Festa disallowed goal.

What will happen though is that I will move on and get behind the club again. It's what I've always done.

Finally, Bandy - you have my heartfelt condolences for your loss. He's probably watching it all unfold, tutting and saying typical Boro!

karembeu_ca Posted on 10/03/2008 18:37
Perspective

thanks for that scoea.

who else thinks that should be in the next FMTTM?

scuzzmonster Posted on 10/03/2008 18:39
Perspective

Sorry about your grandad, Bandy. My condolences.

Bandy Posted on 10/03/2008 18:41
Perspective

no worries scuzz and scoea, cheers. I know I'll be glued to the radio on wednesday S***ting it after every villa attack and praying like fook we get a flukey goal to hang on to.

Buddy Posted on 10/03/2008 18:41
Perspective

Hate to be pedantic on such a stirring post mox, but I think it's 132, isn't it?

sasboro1 Posted on 10/03/2008 18:46
Perspective

perspective...losing 2-1 at home to grimsby in 1989. we took the lead and then grimsby got 2 late goals. we were in div1 and they were in div 4...now that was bad!

Uncle_harry Posted on 10/03/2008 18:47
Perspective

salut Scoea - if those players had your pride, it would have been very different - nice typing

Bandy Posted on 10/03/2008 18:48
Perspective

sasboro: and the goalscorer that day was Marc North

Anyone remember Ronnie Hildersley aswell?

Buddy Posted on 10/03/2008 18:54
Perspective

Certainly do Bandy. I'm getting a mental view from the upper South Stand of Hildersley hitting a 25 yarder into the East End goal. Could be complete B******* but it's the picture that came to mind as soon as you mentioned the name.

After Bernie scored a hat-trick in the first round, as well...

Bandy Posted on 10/03/2008 18:55
Perspective

dont forget the frosty ayresome pitch that day aswell

grantus Posted on 10/03/2008 18:55
Perspective

Bloody good post scoea.

Cut me and I bleed Boro.

[;)]

Gingerpig Posted on 10/03/2008 18:55
Perspective

Yesterday cold be a defining moment for this club?
These bunch of spineless individuals who bottled a god given opportunity have a lot to answer for, if they fail to motivate themselves for a game like yesterday, how on earth can we have any trust in them to do the neccessary to get themselves out of this hole we are rapidly falling into.
They appear to lack any professional pride,desire,or commitment to anyone or anything other than themselves. The silence from anyone other than Southgate is deafening, instead of keeping them away from the press,public etc they should all have been made to face the music?

I,ve been around long enough to have seen all this before...........but today seems even worse than yesterday.......thanks lads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


sasboro1 Posted on 10/03/2008 18:56
Perspective

who remembers the simod cup at home to palace?
we took the lead 2-1 with a cooper rocket with a few minute left
palace went and scored straight from kick off while the fans were still celebrating then scored scored again a minute later and we went out 3-2. Wright and bright did the damage

Bandy Posted on 10/03/2008 18:57
Perspective

certainly do sas! Coopers goal was superb like! I think it was the full members cup wasnt it?

bblf Posted on 10/03/2008 19:08
Perspective

Ive watched the Boro play under 15 managers starting with Bob Dennison right through to Gareth.
Yesterday was bad but was only another blip in recent times. The last few years have been the Best of the Boro since 1886. Anyone who thinks this is worse than 1966/7 or going into Liquidation isn't thinking right.

Its obviously hard to come to terms with the result yesterday but thats it we are out of the cup just like every year since it started.

moxzin Posted on 10/03/2008 19:16
Perspective

Thats why I don't do Maths, Buddy. Thanks.

I still think scoea's post is great but it may miss the point a little. Its a defiant, we've lost in the UEFA Cup style post, not a we've blown a massive opportunity through our own ineptitude post. And I'll repeat, going through all that history shows just how colossal yesterday was. Of course we'll still be there next season, in 5 seasons, in 20 seasons. And we'll put up with more crap and more drama and hopefully, a bit of success. But what we'll never, ever get again is being 2nd favourites for the FA Cup without having kicked off our Qtr Final. Never ever.

Holgatewall Posted on 10/03/2008 19:20
Perspective

joebonano- Yes i'm certainly not slagging Gibbo off. It's as if we are swimming against the tide at times with the changes that have affected football over the last few years.

Money dominates now and fans are not given the respect by: The FA, The premier league and sky TV. It seems as if the last person in the pecking order is the fan who actually turns up to support his/her team.

Yesterday represented our best chance of getting to Wembley and winning the FA cup only for a gutless performance from the superstars of Boro to ruin the occasion.

Other times when we have lost at least we have put up a fight.

It's the players i am having a go at not Gibbo or Gareth.

Ottos_heine Posted on 10/03/2008 19:24
Perspective

All that post needed was the "Dambusters" theme under it and it would have been perfect!!

scoea Posted on 10/03/2008 19:33
Perspective

Mox - the post doesn't miss the point. Of course yesterday was one of the most important games we'll ever have and will probably never be repeated in our lifetime. I will never get over it. This post was in response to criticism I got for saying that I would still renew my season ticket.

alvesdad Posted on 10/03/2008 19:43
Perspective

Well said very good post wished i wrote it myself

Ottos_heine Posted on 10/03/2008 19:44
Perspective

I will always renew,while i have the financial means to do so,if i have to sit in lepers corner with Scoea,so be it!

dooderooni Posted on 10/03/2008 19:46
Perspective

Sit in the moaning minnies/knee-jerkers corner with me.

You don't even have to suffer the 90 minutes that way [;)]

Ottos_heine Posted on 10/03/2008 19:48
Perspective

I would sit in both corners,if i had the physical means to do so!

Jon78 Posted on 10/03/2008 19:51
Perspective

I will always be there. i was there at Ayresome on some awful cold nights with only a few thousand there like so may others here, i cant turn my back on the Boro. My Grandad supported the Boro for 70 years, and NEVER got to see them play at Wembley, he passed away on 1984, when we did get to the finals i thought of him. I will be back shouting the lads on, but it hurts when they put in such a passionless display, I have seen some bad defeats but not many in that manner.

ThePrisoner Posted on 10/03/2008 19:55
Perspective

"would sit in both corners,if i had the physical means to do so!"

Mido does.

maxter Posted on 10/03/2008 20:01
Perspective

We were second favourites going into the semis in 97 and lost to a Chelsea side who were no higher in the table than Portsmouth are now. Whilst yesterday was a big opportunity blown it was by no means certain we would win the cup had we got through.

The manner of the defeat rather than the fact of it was more painful for me.

We have been in three successive QFs - we will get there again. For me the UEFA cup final defeat hurt most because that will probably never happen again.

borolad259 Posted on 10/03/2008 20:01
Perspective

Great post SCOEA.
I'm hurt and angry that my girlfriend dolled herself up in her sexiest gear, and then got herself a headache and couldn't be arsed when I was really up for it. I'll be sulking for a week or two, but she's still my Boro, and I'm not about to chuck her for someone else.

scoea Posted on 10/03/2008 20:29
Perspective

Good analogy. I think.

guyb Posted on 10/03/2008 21:29
Perspective

I respect your stance Scoea but I wont be back. To re-use borolads analogy - that bitch has made a fool out of me for the last time and im putting her cheating ass out.

br14 Posted on 10/03/2008 21:52
Perspective

Where does all this, "may never happen again crap" come from.

It is highly unlikely that we will never get to the quarter finals of the FA Cup again, and you may want to bear in mind that better clubs than ours fell at earlier stages of the competition.

As for the "wanton waste of an historic opportunity", I think you have to admit that Cardiff played intelligently with an astute game plan. To suggest it was a "wanton waste" is to minimise the value of their victory and is patronising to Cardiff.

We are suffering from distinct problems in midfield and attack (injuries maybe) and have been all season. Couple that with an unfortunate choice of players for a cup game and there was nothing at all astonishing about that result.

What is astonishing is the level of mania among Boro fans.

I'd rather play in the final against Man United and win. At least then the newspapers wouldn't be full of shyte like "Boro win cup by default" or similar.

Great post BTW scoea.

sasboro1 Posted on 10/03/2008 22:07
Perspective

When you look at our results and performances this season then maybe our expectations were too high for the Cardiff game. We have played about 35 games upto now and i can only think of 3 or 4 games where we have won comfortably. But i can only think of bristol city, mansfield and birmingham where we were comfortable winners. It just hasnt been good enough for a squad/team that cost well over £40m.

Southgate might be learning management and cooper learning coaching, but who are their mentors at the club?

heaton_mersey_boro Posted on 10/03/2008 22:09
Perspective

Malcolm Crosby.


fatsuma Posted on 10/03/2008 22:10
Perspective

Great thread scoea, hadn't seen this when I posted my thoughts about following the Boro or I'd have put it here.

Great point about winning against a Big 4 team, too br14!




The_Fan_This_Board_Deserves Posted on 10/03/2008 22:13
Perspective

I guess this thread sums up Boro quiet neatly. A team of nearly men run for losers to get melodramatic about because everybody knows that 'defeat is character building'.

No it isn't - yesterday was spineless capitulation, yet people

lap

it

up.

scoea Posted on 10/03/2008 22:15
Perspective

Oh good this tosser is back.

The_Fan_This_Board_Deserves Posted on 10/03/2008 22:16
Perspective

Love the closing suggestion that only the cretins may see this as "sentimental rubbish" in the attempt to disarm them before somebody might express the opinion that this precisely what your post is.

'terrible, terrible toilets' [:D] F***ing hell.


heaton_mersey_boro Posted on 10/03/2008 22:16
Perspective

Why would people lap up spineless capitulation?

emerson_ave Posted on 10/03/2008 22:16
Perspective

That yesterday was a bitter disappointment is undeniable. The first time I experienced similar feelings was when in my second season of regularly following the Boro I heard that Boro had lost 5-3 to - wait for it Cardiff City and been relegated for the first time to the old 3rd division. I was also at Old Trafford in 70, St Andrews in 75, Anfield in 77, Orient in 78 and Wolves in 81.

However I couldn't agree more that a sense of perspective is called for. The new generation of supporters has been spoilt rotten. After the Wolves defeat it would be 16 more years before we finally made it to a major final. Lets be honest the ZDS Final might have been one sour little ex pro's moment of fame but it didn't really count. In 11 years since 1997 we have reached 5 major cup finals including a European final, won our first trophy and narrowly lost in two other semi finals. Until We have played in the premier league for 13 of the last 16 years and also played for 2 seasons in European competition.

Do the players and managers deserve the vitriol and abuse that is coming their way. Not really. Most supporters don't really understand the nature of sport. They want it to be predictable whereas its appeal is its glorious unpredictability. They demand that their team wins every match. Instead of flying into the top corner the shot which resulted in the first goal yesterday might have been miscued and gone over the bar. The whole course of the game might have ben different after that. Sportsmen of every type no matter how well trained or paid suffer from nerves which sometimes prevent them from performing to their true ability. Hence talented multi millionaire golfers frequently blow 6 shot leads going into the final round or miss winning putts from a few feet. Being paid a lot doesn't make you immune from pressure.

All this Southgate/Gibson out emotion on the back of one disappointing result and an admittedly poor but as yet not disastrous season is a gross overreaction.










fatsuma Posted on 10/03/2008 22:17
Perspective

But how you respond to witnessing such spineless capitulation IS character building.

You can deal with it with dignity and resolve.

Or just stomp off with your arms crossed tightly and make a harrumphy sort of noise !




The_Fan_This_Board_Deserves Posted on 10/03/2008 22:19
Perspective

Well, let's see how the players respond shall we? Wednesday night will be telling. If they win then they will have 3 precious points and still have blown the best chance we have had in years of winning the FA Cup. If they lose we won't have any points and will still have shown us up on national TV.

moxzin Posted on 10/03/2008 22:20
Perspective

br14 - I think you're a fine example of attempting to mitigate defeat so much you've come out the other side, and our defeat becomes a victory. No glory in winning the FA Cup? Rather we beat Man Utd in some vague future final? If you say so. Of course Cardiff played well, but we had 1 shot on target and generally played poorly. If you really want to charge that to Cardiff's account, by all means, but it doesn't reflect on Boro very well that we were 'done' on our own ground by a mid-table Championship team? Surely its better for us to say we simply had an off day.

I'll say it again, never in our lifetimes will we ever have such favourable conditions for winning the FA Cup. Never. Thats not to say we'll never win it, but that it'll never be as open as it was this year again.

I'll repeat, we could have got to the final without playing a Premier League team. And we still didn't make it. Disgraceful. Don't care if that makes me arrogant or hubristic or whatever. We've been in the Premiership for 10 years, sunk untold millions into the club and yet we still can't do the fking basics.

Dibzzz Posted on 10/03/2008 22:21
Perspective

With you every inch of the way mate.

Great post, your Grandad will be proud!

alvesdad Posted on 10/03/2008 22:28
Perspective

best post tonight Scoea UP THE BORO

The_Fan_This_Board_Deserves Posted on 10/03/2008 22:31
Perspective

This seems to be a growing phenomenon. The Cult of the Downtrodden. By all means bring nostalgia to the party and wishful thinking but its just pure escapism from a depressing present.

Your club has let you down. From my 'perspective', which is what this thread is entitled, yesterday was a catastrophic collapse. For others it was an opportunity to enhance their status as 'real' fans to be admired by others for their steely resolve. *










































* Gutless acceptance of failure

Muttley Posted on 10/03/2008 22:32
Perspective

Bloody right Scoea. Well said.

Mahondieta Posted on 10/03/2008 22:34
Perspective

True, true. And its the 20,000 renewers who think like this that will one day see middlesbrough at the top, when David Wheater walks up to that platfom in the Delle Alpi or somewhere like that at the 2014 Champions League Final when we've just secured our place in history with a 3 - 2 win over Sevilla.

Get up there boyos.

Sitrep Posted on 10/03/2008 22:34
Perspective

At last a real sense of PERSPECTIVE

well done The Fan

Boromad Posted on 10/03/2008 22:37
Perspective

Emerson Ave - good post. This now a test for club, players and fans alike. Yesterday was hugely disappointing, but we have been there before and they will bounce back. There will be players who will now stand up and be counted. I have no doubt that Southgate will not stand for anything else and there are good players at this club. Someone on another thread said tha Wheater walked off with his head in his shirt - that guy will be hurting. Along with Downing and many others. Now's the time to get behind them. Villa is another game and I am sure we will survive this season which will be another year in the top flight. Things do need to change but our chairman has never let us down before and believe me he is probably hurting more than all of us.

scoea Posted on 10/03/2008 22:38
Perspective

What utterly condescending crap Mr Deserves. You're not even close to getting what I mean or indeed what this thread is about.

The_Fan_This_Board_Deserves Posted on 10/03/2008 22:40
Perspective

It's about self-indulgent melodrama for the feeble-minded. You call it 'sentimental rubbish' in your own post and then try and package it as something else. Worse still, you attempt to monopolise real 'insight' for yourself and those who agree and dub others 'cretins'.

scoea Posted on 10/03/2008 22:42
Perspective

As I say, it's straight over your head. Feeble minded? Get a grip.

Muttley Posted on 10/03/2008 22:42
Perspective

whereas for you it's about who is suffering most, who can make the most melodramatic statement about abandoning the club he/she loves, who (if you like) is the uber-cynic...

borobetty Posted on 10/03/2008 22:48
Perspective

You have redeemed yourself in my eyes Scoea after some of the twadddle you came out with yesterday!

Stabilo_Boss Posted on 10/03/2008 22:52
Perspective

Ignore him Scoea. The name, the writing style, the false sentiment. It all smacks of someone craving attention with an oh so feisty username one of those "look how controversial and offensive I can be" posts.

Booorrrring.

Boromad Posted on 10/03/2008 22:54
Perspective

Fan - utter rubbish.

scoea Posted on 10/03/2008 22:58
Perspective

Exactly. I posted this because it is truly how I felt today in response to criticism that I wanted to renew my season ticket next year. I certainly didn't post it to prove what a good fan I am.

This stuff actually means something to me, it's real. It is what supporting a football club ought to be about. For someone to come on here and stomp on it says all you need to know about that individual.

What I posted is about much more than a single defeat. To miss the point so wildly and dismiss it as "self-indulgent melodrama for the feeble-minded" shows a lack of any form of insight, any form of understanding and any form of basic humility.

The_Fan_This_Board_Deserves Posted on 10/03/2008 23:01
Perspective

I certainly didn't post it to prove what a good fan I am.

Oh but you did.

Broughton Posted on 10/03/2008 23:01
Perspective

Nice one Scoea.

I am with you all the way mate

COME ON BORO

scoea Posted on 11/03/2008 08:54
Perspective

Oh did I? Thanks for telling me. At least now I know.

It obviously upsets you in some way that I've posted this but it really is your problem and might I suggest that if you don't like it you perhaps ignore the thread? Or is that a little too grown up for you?

The_Fan_This_Board_Deserves Posted on 11/03/2008 08:55
Perspective

God knows why you've brought this up. Pathetic little man.

Libbins Posted on 11/03/2008 09:06
Perspective

Excellent post Scoea. Just got in work and read this now.
Bandy, sorry about your grandad mate.

scoea Posted on 11/03/2008 09:17
Perspective

You're quite clearly a child. Or at least you behave like one.

The_Fan_This_Board_Deserves Posted on 11/03/2008 09:24
Perspective

no time for this today

UgoAfro Posted on 11/03/2008 09:27
Perspective

The players WERE spineless on Sunday by not competeing with Cardiff at all.

But I think all these people claiming they're never going to go to the match again just because we've lost a game we were hot favourites to win (not for the first time) seems pretty spineless to me. Well fine, we'll all stop going. Crowds will drop to 5000 and we'll drop through the divisions like a stone. We might even go out of business like we did in the 80s. That would be great for the town wouldn't it?

Despite how angry our no show on Sunday made everyone feel, some of the reaction has ben rediculous. Say what you like about Steve Gibson but his sole objective is for Boro to do well. He's no Charlie Amer. No matter how disappointing Sunday was is it really enough for people to desert the club taking into account the consequences for the town a whole?

Even if we'd won the B***** cup half the people on here would say its devalued as 'we had an easy run' or that it was 'papering over the cracks'.


scoea Posted on 11/03/2008 09:31
Perspective

Good Mr Deserves. If you haven't got time though might I suggest you don't reply within minutes. If you don't like what has been posted then might I suggest you ignore it?

The_Fan_This_Board_Deserves Posted on 11/03/2008 09:39
Perspective

Grow up scoea. I've encountered cyber bullies like you before.

scoea Posted on 11/03/2008 09:52
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Cyber bullies!!!!!!!!

I didn't ask you onto this thread and you don't have to continue to post on it. You started the abuse on the initial thread from which this one came and so it's a bit rich to get all precious now.

As I have already suggested, if you're too busy stop replying.

Chappy112 Posted on 11/03/2008 09:56
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If people don't renew because of the Football being played then they aren't really supporters for me. If it's because of prices or other things then I understand but I'd never ever not renew because we were playing crap because I go to support my team whether they are playing out of this world or absolutely awful.

sasboro1 Posted on 11/03/2008 09:57
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this seasons home form has been dire, the worst for a long time. even in the seasons when we got relegated from the top flight this is worse!

It will take a big hit on season ticket sales. perhaps lose 2000 season ticket holders. It is upto southgate and the players to make the remaining games more entertaining with more passion and organisation and convince some season ticket holders it is worth renewing. Southgate needs to step it up on his tactics side of things, at the moment he is giving the impression he hasnt got a plan B when we concede a goal

The cardiff performance has been coming for a while. a lot of the home games have been poor this season.

captain5 Posted on 11/03/2008 10:00
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The problem with this is that, apart from The F***wit This Board Doesn't Deserve, the majority of people on here are passionate fans who are on the side of the club and look at them to see the best.

From a lot of other people's perspectives, it was a final kick in the B*******. I know it's anecdotal but there seems to be a lot of people who went on Sunday who were giving the club a chance after either not going for a long time (for whatever reason - costs, Foreign TV; it doesn't really matter) or were just about sticking by the club.

You can't deny these people exist, as our attendances falling shows this.

A lot of the experiences in your initial post will have been a part (or something similar) in their lives just as in yours.

It was a great post and could've been written by a fan of pretty much any club or about any club in the country right down to non-league and that wouldn't have diluted it one jot.

The reality of the situation and the real perspective that needs to be addressed is that MFC burned a lot of bridges on Sunday and it's up to them to try and do something to reach out to the disaffected. There will be a lot of people who won't stop going because of Sunday, but they might stop next time or the time after that. A lot of people have already stopped and are now wearing the cynical Teesside badge of I told you so-dom.

scoea Posted on 11/03/2008 10:04
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Completely agree Captain. It is up to the club to build those bridges because, this time and not always, it is they that have burned them. In actual fact, I don't think that is possible. I don't think Sunday will be easily forgiven. I posted this in response to criticism that I was renewing but I completely understand people that are refusing to go back because it was a real kick in the teeth.

Bandy Posted on 11/03/2008 10:06
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have to say, if the club are intent on building bridges then the silence is deafening and isnt going to aid their cause. It's a bit embarassing really. I expected a rent a quote from Gibson or something

scoea Posted on 11/03/2008 10:11
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It needs one Bandy. It needs the captain to come out and apologise and it needs a few other players to do the same. they're always full of it before big, important games. Quotes in the Gazette about how they are going all out to get it right etc etc. Now, we need some answers or, at the very least, apologies. The silence is deafening.

captain5 Posted on 11/03/2008 10:12
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The club are in a no-win situation at the moment.

I think they'll try and muddle through to the end of the season and hope that some summer signings will shake a few fans out of the doldrums.

They don't seem to have enough non-playing staff to do anything pro-active with regards to marketing etc to try and rescue the situation in the short term.

Bandy Posted on 11/03/2008 10:14
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where's this Neil bauser cat. he's done the biz so far. bet it's a kick in the knackersack for him aswell as he's done well on the marketing side.

captain5 Posted on 11/03/2008 10:19
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He's not really the front man, Bandy.

More the guy organising things behind the scenes.

Matt Emmerson is the marketing manager.

It needs a Gibson appearance; forget bickering with the football authorities and get the fans back onside.

scoea Posted on 11/03/2008 10:20
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Exactly. Of course it is going to be empty words to a certain extent but they are still words that ought to be said.

Bandy Posted on 11/03/2008 10:20
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he's got more pressing matters like grovelling back to bernie

scoea Posted on 11/03/2008 10:21
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I'm sure that's high on his list of priorities.

sasboro1 Posted on 11/03/2008 10:24
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i think one of the senior players should have come out and apologised to the fans for an unacceptable performance. It would not solve many problems but it would maybe help persuade the fans to still back the team. Southgate has accepted blame but i would have expected one or two players to show professionalism and come out and say they let the manager,fans and chairman down.

captain5 Posted on 11/03/2008 10:26
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I was more angry about the match when I heard that all of the players had refused press interviews after the match on Sunday.

Hiding should not be an option, the money they are paid.

scoea Posted on 11/03/2008 10:31
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Exactly. I'm not sure whether it was at the club's insistence that they refused. I can't imagine someone like Pog shirking something like that but in any event it was unacceptable.

There should have been apologies, grovelling and demands for an improvement.

Instead we've got Gareth coming out and saying that he didn't set the right tone. Sorry GAreth, it's very honourable and you do have to accept the lion's share of teh blame, but you can't absolve them. Not this time. Get 'em out to face the music.

Bandy Posted on 11/03/2008 10:31
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it was on monday scoea

scoea Posted on 11/03/2008 10:33
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Give over Bandy. I'm sure that is how Slaven would like to portray it mind.

Bandy Posted on 11/03/2008 10:34
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lets wait n see then eh

scoea Posted on 11/03/2008 10:35
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Don't get me wrong, I know they're making things up because they were once quite chummy, I think. However, if you think Gibson is grovelling back to Bernie rather than it being the other way around you're wrong.

Islandstone Posted on 11/03/2008 10:43
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Damn good post scoea. Once again I had a fabolous time reading your post. You really are one of the best posters on this board, and you should know that I appreciate your presence here.

You make this board better[:)]

Bandy Posted on 11/03/2008 10:44
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"However, if you think Gibson is grovelling back to Bernie rather than it being the other way around you're wrong."

you know best mate!

scoea Posted on 11/03/2008 10:46
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Aye, I do that Bandy!

captain5 Posted on 11/03/2008 10:52
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It doesn't really matter which side is capitulating.

Both sides will spin it in such a way to look like they 'won'.

The club need as much positive media coverage as possible and Slaven needs to get back onside as otherwise he'll be moved further out to the periphery of local media and he's too much of a one trick pony to allow that to happen to himself.

He should just do what MacDonald does and deny things that he's said in the past were ever uttered by him.

gravyboat Posted on 11/03/2008 12:06
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Well, apologies for offering my opinion. I called you daft, you've called me a cretin, so we'll call it quits eh?

I've read your post, and if that is your feelings, then fair play to you. If that's what you feel in your heart, then good on you for following it.

However, I'd like to offer the reason why I think your stance 'is daft'.

I too experienced all those things you mention in your initial post. I've been going - initially on and off with me old fella from about '85, before moving on to a season ticket which, until last season, I'd kept for 17 years.

Up until probably 3 years ago I NEVER EVER thought I would give up my ticket. It was unthinkable. I even decided not to move away from the area soley because of Boro.

But things have changed Scoea. However you dress it up, the game is different now in so many ways. You say you still enjoy the matchday experience. I don't. I think it's tired and souless.

A club of our size has to expend all it's energy just to have another season of mid-table mediocrity in the 'Premier' League with absolutely NO chance of being successful within it. Obviously, as Boro fans we are used to no success, but that fact the lack of any chance of achieving it is simply down to the greed of certain clubs and certain individuals sticks in my throat big time.

The entire football pyramid is set up to favour the select few, who get richer and richer and richer, whilst winning almost everything. But at the same time, us fans of the smaller clubs still get stung, because we pay what our club has to charge to enable it to even think about competing with these greedy giants.

I said on here in the summer there was several reasons I didn't renew - none of them really directly related to Boro. I think Southgate has done ok and derseves at least another season (We'll beg to differ on that I guess). But when I see Frank Lampard (or Ashley Cole or Steven Gerrard or John Terry) umming and arring about a new Chelsea contract which is worth around £120,000 a week. A FOOKING week. It's disgusting. And by continuing to be part of the funding of that by paying out a lump sum every year, even though there are some matches I can't/aren't able to go to makes me feel like an idiot.

I still go - I've been to a few this season, mainly away games because the matchday experience is still something I enjoy away from home. I 've been too involved with them for too long to walk away completely.

But I honestly cant imagine myself buying another season ticket to fund the grotesque amounts of money that footballers now expect to be rewarded with.


Critical_Bill Posted on 11/03/2008 12:09
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I suspect that deep down, gravyboat's apparent indifference stems from moving into a place with his bird.

Am I warm?

gravyboat Posted on 11/03/2008 12:13
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Good try Bill, but not correct, I'm single.

Awaits snide comments about being single. [:P]

MarlonD Posted on 11/03/2008 12:40
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Enjoyed reading your initial post scoea and some of the responses but no matter how it's dressed up as "just one match" or the club have survived worse days the simple fact is, is that the floating voters will not come back this season.

I suspect if we signed Ronaldhino (have you heard anything yet scoea [;)]) the apathy will not lift for a long time, if ever.

MODerimus Posted on 11/03/2008 13:16
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You have put what so many have been thinking into words.

We shall overcome, might not be tomorrow, might not be against Arsenal on Saturday but we will be back.

COME ON BORO

Critical_Bill Posted on 11/03/2008 13:17
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gravyboat, I bet you are good at arm-wrestling, then.

sasboro1 Posted on 11/03/2008 13:18
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Think we will do well to sell 17,000 season tickets next season unless there is a sudden upturn in the quality of the home games.

gravyboat Posted on 11/03/2008 13:18
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Bloody hell, it took you a while.

You might think, but I don't usually get to put much effort in.

scoea Posted on 11/03/2008 13:56
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gravyboat - firstly I didn't call you a cretin. It wasn't directed at you. Secondly, I acknowledge that that is how a great many will feel and I can't argue against it. A lot of what you say is true. All I did was post why I intend to renew and probably why I will always renew.

I agree that we've lost the 'floating fan', I agree that it will never be forgiven and yet I still feel the same. Can't help it.

Boromad Posted on 11/03/2008 14:04
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By the sounds of some of the threads on this board recently we may as well just tell Giboo and the rest to just pack up and go home. It is one result. We have had results like this in the past. Yes it was a great opportunity, but opportunities will come along again. Just like they always do. This is about supporting the club you have since childhood, the only club we have.

The club has a job to do to get the fans back. The reality is that we have a core support of somewhere from 15k to 20k. We have others who come when we are doing well. We are a small town and we have to be realistic in terms of our support base. It is not the same as those up the road or down the road for that matter.

If we don't believe still, then we may as well give up. Some realism is needed - there is a game tomorrow night whcih we need to go out and try to win, to bounce back.

gravyboat Posted on 11/03/2008 14:08
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Fair enough. You used the word 'daft' more than once in your initial post, which is the word I used yesterday, so obviously I assumed you were refering to me.

Personally, I think this whole 'I'll never forgive the club' stance over one result is a bit much. Yes it was incredibly disappointing, but I think there is far more wrong with football than one abject performance.

shikaka Posted on 11/03/2008 19:54
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hoof

richysmrs Posted on 11/03/2008 20:06
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Not once since Sunday have i thought i am not renewing.
rollercoaster rides are much more fun - but boy do they hurt !

2 season tickets to our house please !

alvesdad Posted on 11/03/2008 20:07
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still mad as f--- but it is still my club
It will still be my club when all team on saturday have left
Thats how it is when you support the Boro
You dont stop supporting just on one PERFORMANCE if we did that FFS we would have left years ago as the song goes Things can only get better

keith1997 Posted on 11/03/2008 20:15
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That is a post us of a certain age can relate to, and yes a will renew as i have for nearly a quarter of a century now, but they need to know that that was totally unacceptable

Sitrep Posted on 11/03/2008 21:01
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Iím beginning to think there is a lot of people with Alzheimer's on this thread, its NOT just one game.
What about Blackburn, west ham, Chelsea, aston villa, everton, reading and thats our home games
We have been diabolical for the best part of the season. Itís not one result

scoea Posted on 12/03/2008 08:47
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Nobody said it was about one game. I don't think Southgate is the rigth man for the job. Despite that I will continue to renew my season ticket - that is what this thread is about.

The_same_as_before Posted on 12/03/2008 08:49
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Scoea, the whole thread is based on a lie. No one was a season ticket holder at Ayresome.

scoea Posted on 12/03/2008 08:55
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What?

gravyboat Posted on 12/03/2008 09:10
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The_same_as_before Posted on 12/03/2008 08:49 Email this Message | Reply
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scoea, the whole thread is based on a lie. No one was a season ticket holder at Ayresome

-----------------------------------------------------

Eh?

scoea Posted on 12/03/2008 09:13
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He's completely lost me. The only thing I can think of is that I didn't call it Ayresome Park!

kermit Posted on 12/03/2008 09:15
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I had a dream last night that Boro, for 1 day only, were selling season tickets for next season NOW for £20.

Needless to say I got one.

gravyboat Posted on 12/03/2008 09:16
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Even I might consider that.

The_same_as_before Posted on 12/03/2008 09:32
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OK no one under 60.


You must have the tartan quilt early in your life. The average gate was less than 15,000.

scoea Posted on 12/03/2008 09:34
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What planet are you on?

I am 30 years old and have had a season ticket for nigh on 20 years.

Holgatewall Posted on 12/03/2008 09:36
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I had a season ticket at Ayresome and i'm under 60 [;)]

gravyboat Posted on 12/03/2008 09:36
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Ditto.

zaphod Posted on 12/03/2008 10:09
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I'm the same as scoea in that Boro is in my blood (since 1957 in my case) and I'll always love the club & love going to the games. When my contract overseas ends in 2009, I'll retire & probably buy a season ticket instead of just going to the games when I'm in UK. The urge to go to Boro matches is one of the main reasons I've decided against moving abroad permanently (pathetic really).

BUT I feel that some of the players are just taking the P*** these days. Even in the darkest times I always felt the players may be crap but they're probably doing their best. I hated Viduka's attitude & thought when he & Yak went, we'd at least have a group of players who'd bust a gut to win. Sunday proved to me that some of them don't give a S***, as long as they get their huge wedge. I want the club to reconnect with the fans by getting rid of the P***-takers & bringing in players who want to achieve something.

The_same_as_before Posted on 12/03/2008 10:10
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Simple question, why?

scoea Posted on 12/03/2008 10:34
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Why what?

Do you now accept that you were wrong about season tickets?

Lefty Posted on 12/03/2008 10:58
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I've only read the first post but to me it is sentimental rubbish. I'm not in the mood for tosh like that at the moment, heartfelt as it may be. It smacks of forgiveness way too soon after the event.

Them F***ers are going to have to earn that from me over a long period of time.

By the way, I've been a season ticket holder since the Riverside and although I wasn't a season ticket holder at Ayresome, I rarely missed a match going back to the pre 1986 bad old days. And I will renew.

scoea Posted on 12/03/2008 11:15
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Exactly Lefty, I haven't forgiven and that is not what the post meant. It was my reason for renewing despite what happened on Sunday. I am a long way from feeling any better about it.

Bandy Posted on 12/03/2008 11:25
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I ad a holgate season ticket

sasboro1 Posted on 12/03/2008 11:49
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totally different club than 20 years ago, we have had 10 years of the tv money. we seem no nearer to climbing up the league than we did under robson. Money rules the game and we end up with foreign players who come over for the money. We need more players who are good enough but come from lower league who wasnt to grab the opportunity. You don't have to spend millions on foreign players to be where we are now.

The_same_as_before Posted on 12/03/2008 11:50
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Sas keep well away from gas ovens or ropes on trees.

captain5 Posted on 12/03/2008 11:51
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Are you on about Middlesbrough specifically there sas, or generally about the PL??

scoea Posted on 12/03/2008 11:52
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I can never understand the TV money argument. Yes, we've had it and we have seen the improvement that we are now an established top flight club. The problem that everyone forgets is that every other club has had the same TV money so we're no better off really.

We just spend more on average players than we did 20 years ago, but they're still average.

We have improved in terms of facilities, in youth development, in Cup success and in league position. The next step of improvement is the most difficult for a club of our size. McClaren almost had it but right now we're a million miles from it.

br14 Posted on 12/03/2008 12:06
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scoea the problem is that while many other clubs have had TV money, it's the amount of money that is the problem.

This season is the best example so far of the inequality in the Premier League. Check the Championship, there you have real competition, where player selection and management actually make a difference.

The PL may have rebalanced slightly this calendar year but the money is still skewed heavily toward the top teams. As long as that is the case, the league will continue to be increasingly uncompetitive and overall English football will suffer.

scoea Posted on 12/03/2008 12:10
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br14 - I don't disagree.

If I understood Sas correctly he was critical of the fact we haven't progressed despite having the TV money. My counter argument is that we have progressed, quite significantly, and that the TV money, in real tersm, doesn't actually help us because all of the teams have got it. That the distribution of the money is so lopsided makes our achievements all the more remarkable.

sasboro1 Posted on 12/03/2008 12:27
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captain, it probably is valid for any club that has been in the prmeier leageu for a few years and rarely gets in the top half. Its not as if we have a chairman that is tight with money.

Scoea, tv money is very relevant. it is a safety net for premier leageu teams. Makes it difficult for promoted teams to compete and they usually end up going back down. the gap between the them and the premier league teams is massive. Once you are an established club with a few years worth of tv money behind you then you are sorted unless you rerally fook things up.

These days in the top flight you dont have to be a good manager to survive, it is about spending big in the summer and keeping the status quo.

scoea Posted on 12/03/2008 12:30
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You're simply changing your point with that post. I don't disagree with that. You said "we seem no nearer to climbing up the league than we did under robson." after 10 years of TV money. My point is that that TV money over that 10 year period HAS helped us progress but also that it is not as significant in terms of our progression because all the other teams have had it too.

Adi_Dem Posted on 10/04/2008 22:28
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Just wondered whether anyones view had softened. Have the wounds healed?

Bandy Posted on 11/04/2008 13:14
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the wounds have been well n truly licked now. I'm over cardiff. The defending at Arsenal and the way we set about Man U satisfied me immensley. Oh, and Alves had come good, which we all knew would happen anyway. Cant wait for next season now

sasboro1 Posted on 11/04/2008 13:16
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Just looked and we have dropped two place down the league since you started this thread, I rubbed my eyes and checked again and still the same.

Adi_Dem Posted on 11/04/2008 13:18
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Care to explain what the bloody hell you're on about sas?

Bandy Posted on 11/04/2008 13:20
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not arsed where we finish now aslong as it's not bottom 3. League position will be irrelevant when the season ticket renewals come dropping through the door. Supporting Boro is a vicious circle. the same people will all still go. it's like when people say if boateng plays on saturday I'm never going again, or what about the fans that never got eindhoven tickets who swore they would never go again.....they'll all still be there next season.

pat_the_cat Posted on 11/04/2008 13:23
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I will not be renewing due to personal reasons but the memories of Ayresome came flooding back after reading scoeas post.
People might say I'm a crazy old fool but goddamit I just don't cares no more. I just can't live in this modern footballing world.

red_shamrock Posted on 11/04/2008 13:29
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I enjoyed that Scoea.
Coagmento Erimus.

skiprat Posted on 11/04/2008 13:38
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You'd have to be a bit mental if you thought we would still be in the same league position or higher after Villa (A), Derby (H), Arsenal (A), Chelsea (A) and Man U (H) and even Spurs (A).

The Cardiff game stills annoys me, but I've already got the money sorted for next year and will be renewing.

I watch Boro for a bit of entertainment and it's annoys me when we lose, but I won't be suicidal about it like a lot of people were, it's not that important in the grand scheme of life really.

Adi_Dem Posted on 11/04/2008 21:47
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It really affects me skip. It ruins a weekend. Immediately after a defeat it is pointless anyone talking to me. Sometimes I wish I didn't care. The fact is though, and this is basically what this thread is about, I do and always will.

Watch what happens - we'll draw or beat Spurs and Bolton will turn us over with a scrappy 1-0. It will be typical Boro.