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Humpty Posted on 22/09/2010 11:53
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Nothing new though...


Link: Gazette Live

Rufus_vel_Mortuus Posted on 22/09/2010 12:00
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Joke

oooooo Posted on 22/09/2010 12:02
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Do you really need it to be anything new? The banners have to be confirmed to be safe - it's not hard to get your head around.

RF aren't going to be happy until they get the response "the club took them down because we are mean and don't like RF"

Rodders_T Posted on 22/09/2010 12:03
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How the fukk is a banner confirmed 'safe'?

Humpty Posted on 22/09/2010 12:04
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The rule was that flags had to be fire proof to be left up in the stadium. Flags that were put up for the game and taken down after didn't need to be fire proof.

So why the rule change now?

Midosparmo Posted on 22/09/2010 12:04
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That banner might have lighlty wafted down and landed on someones head causing them to remove it.

How very dangerous.

boro_tyke Posted on 22/09/2010 12:05
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Red Factions Banners AND flags have been ‘safe’ WITHOUT incident for 2 and a half years.

There is no case to answer to.

Midosparmo Posted on 22/09/2010 12:07
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Whats the nexy step in fire safety?


Link: Strict dress code issued by MFC

newyddion Posted on 22/09/2010 12:08
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If someone set that on fire.. how much damage would it actually do?

It would be gone in 20 seconds and the stadium is made of steel and concrete [rle]

Rodders_T Posted on 22/09/2010 12:08
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How exactly would they catch fire?

gerd_muller Posted on 22/09/2010 12:08
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so are they going to inspect every banner in the championship prior to every team coming to the riverside????

shaunb86 Posted on 22/09/2010 12:08
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Honestly they don't have a bloody clue do they. Change the rules week in week out. It's not only the fact that they impose the ridiculous rules but the manner in which they do so.

sasboro1 Posted on 22/09/2010 12:10
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"How the fukk is a banner confirmed 'safe'?"

try to set fire to it with a match

Humpty Posted on 22/09/2010 12:11
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no matches/lighters allowed in the stadium [V]

oooooo Posted on 22/09/2010 12:11
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Ok lads, I guess you are right. The club did it to be nasty to the poor old red faction. BooXXXXXXinghoo.

Rodders_T Posted on 22/09/2010 12:12
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A destructive test? Are you sure?

You don't try and set fire to fireproofing do you?

STEEL_CITY_SMOGGY Posted on 22/09/2010 12:17
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What a ridiculous quest by the club. They might as well ask all fans attend an interview before buying tickets to ensure they are the right kind of fans for the club.

Cant believe they are ruining the only decent bit of the ground!

The_263 Posted on 22/09/2010 12:19
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Safety Nazis out of control again!

gerd_muller Posted on 22/09/2010 12:20
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more nonsense demonstrated by MFC than any other organisation

King_Ricard Posted on 22/09/2010 12:20
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Club spin.

What is interesting is that they suggest that only new banners were knocked back.

Yet with the exception of the 'parky 86' banner all of the banners in the SEC have been there nearly every game for the past two seasons. Certainly the RF group banner has.

It really is the case of the club attacking the RF.

fuchs Posted on 22/09/2010 12:23
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K_R

Did the RF have the fire certs for all of the banners that got removed?

ccole Posted on 22/09/2010 12:24
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Can anyone name another ground in the country where you can’t take flags and banners in without a safety cert?[:(!]


Its foooking farcical[:o)]

bosshogg Posted on 22/09/2010 12:27
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Are the clothes we wear at the match a fire risk then?

[|)]

fatharrywhite Posted on 22/09/2010 12:28
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"Can anyone name another ground in the country where you can’t take flags and banners in without a safety cert"

yes - accrington stanley


Link: link

Midosparmo Posted on 22/09/2010 12:28
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See my post above (now the link works) for next seasons matchday clothing.

King_Ricard Posted on 22/09/2010 12:29
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The RF had previously agreed a deal with MFC that due to the massive cost of fireproofing banners etc that We would remove them every game reducing the risk of them being ignited when unattended.

MFC were more than happy with this, hence there has been little problems on this subject the past few seasons.

However, the club persistantly move the goal posts on a match by match basis.

I know some of the flags were fire proofed at individuals expence only to be then informed that it wasnt acceptable as it still didnt meet the clubs standards.

So im sure why you can understand the reluctance to spend our pocket money on fireproofing again if the club will at a later date set new rules.

The safety team at MFC have a serious grudge against the RF following the Sue Watson letter incident. It is aparent that they would sooner stamp out the efforts of the SEC than enjoy the benefits.

This health and saftey stuff is being used as veil to hide there real intentions.

As has been said, surely if there is enough risk of banners catching fire, then there must be an equal risk of clothes/scarves/programs etc catching fire.

I see that many on this board feel the RF are being silly in not conforming to the clubs ever changing policy. However we refuse to continue to jump through MFC's hoops just so we can support our bloody team.

fuchs Posted on 22/09/2010 12:30
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Any idiot with a lighter could start pandemonium so it is common sense that large flags / banners be made of a material that has some resistance to fire.

[rle]

Rufus_vel_Mortuus Posted on 22/09/2010 12:36
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Away fans are allowed banners in, why aren't we?

King_Ricard Posted on 22/09/2010 12:36
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Your right, an idiot with a hot flask of tea could cause serious buring and disfigurement to someone should they chose to throw it.

An idiot with a light could also set fire to someones clothes, or to a program and cause trouble.

What if someone had a knife, they may stab someone.

What if the IRA brought a bomb into the ground?

Perhaps we should have full body searches and airport style security just to enter the stadium?

How about as suggested interviews to make sure supporters are decent folk?

Or ID cards to attend football?

However the spin that is coming out of many people on this forum that just because the RF banners arent certified that we are risking another bradford is stupid

Midosparmo Posted on 22/09/2010 12:38
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They should ban flasks of hot tea and tartan blankets which arent fire resistant in the West stand too. [^]

Jerry_Brown Posted on 22/09/2010 12:40
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It may be the safety committee and not the club?

King_Ricard Posted on 22/09/2010 12:40
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Indeed, lets just ban everything.

PAULIEJ Posted on 22/09/2010 12:42
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King_Richard keep the faith mate as I think most on here applaud what you are trying to do and can see what the club are tring to do too.They will not be happy until crowds are under 10,000,silent and lacking in colour.
Pathetic!

fuchs Posted on 22/09/2010 12:42
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K_R

You didn't answer my question.

The club isn't picking on you.

The sky isn't falling in.

[}:)]

djlocky9999 Posted on 22/09/2010 12:42
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they'll be moving the RF for the leeds game by the way things are going to avoid confrontation and noise [:O]

ccole Posted on 22/09/2010 12:45
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Any idiot with a lighter could start pandemonium so it is common sense that large flags / banners be made of a material that has some resistance to fire.

1) Or throw a coin, hard hats next? Ban coins in the ground?
2) Or get on the pitch, bring back fences?
3) Or drive a mini bus full of explosive into the ground?, Ban all cars


Did you ever climb a tree as a child?

RedcarBlock53 Posted on 22/09/2010 12:45
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Fuchs = club plant or troll. Take your pick.

King_Ricard Posted on 22/09/2010 12:46
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Fuchs,

It is apparent that the banners dont have fire certs, however I have explained that this was not an issue in the past with MFC. If it was then why have these banners been allowed for the past 2 odd seasons.

You claim the club or rather elements of the "safety" team are not picking on the group, yet their actions/motives and comments to people over the past few years suggest otherwise.

Midosparmo Posted on 22/09/2010 12:46
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Its the Nanny state gone mad.

oooooo Posted on 22/09/2010 12:48
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These are all really interesting comparisons but given that we have seen people killed in a football ground without anyone doing anything malicious in my lifetime then can't you understand the lack of tolerance for any 'common sense' in the safety regulations?

erimus74 Posted on 22/09/2010 12:49
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oooooo - ok lads, I guess you are right. The club did it to be nasty to the poor old red faction. BooXXXXXXinghoo.

oooooo north stand regular with a chip on the shoulder about the nasty RF!!!

Remove the RF & every now and again we can stand up and sing'stand up if you love Boro' then sit down for 20 minutes, repeat this 3 times during the match.

The Souless/colourless Riverside stadium 2011

Rufus_vel_Mortuus Posted on 22/09/2010 12:50
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"The club isn't picking on you."

Then why are the rules used against us, not enforced to the rest of the home support? Double standards.

boro_tyke Posted on 22/09/2010 12:52
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Fuchs: Yes some of the banners removed have been treat with Fire-Retardent spray. The Spirit of Steaua Flag and Red or Dead being two in question. This was done voluntarily at source and long before the club even considered this course of action.

The club were also happy to pass over 5,000 red/white/blue cards which contained highly flammable spirit-based ink print to one side in the name of T12M for the cardiff City Cup game.

fatharrywhite Posted on 22/09/2010 12:52
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"Then why are the rules used against us, not enforced to the rest of the home support? Double standards"

the huge boro banner was initially banned as it didnt have a fire certificate.

As i recall, those who were responsible for it went and got it sorted so they could use it. I also recall them dealing with it and not crying to a message board saying the whole world is against me.

King_Ricard Posted on 22/09/2010 12:54
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I fully support a 'common sense' approach to safety. I dont want anyone to be hurt. But at what point do you stop taking precautions?

MFC Taking these actions to prevent 'fire' when people have pointed out numerous other sources of ignition shows how ridiculous this endevour is.


fuchs Posted on 22/09/2010 12:54
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I like banners.

I enjoyed the noise coming from the opposite corner of the ground to where I am (NW) and joined in the singing.

If there is a rule about fire certs, then surely the North stand banners must need a cert as well??

erimus74 Posted on 22/09/2010 12:55
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fatharrywhite isn't that what a message board is all about, discussing anything and everything via the message board?

oooooo Posted on 22/09/2010 12:55
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"oooooo north stand regular with a chip on the shoulder about the nasty RF!!!"

I don't go at all now mate, the atmosphere is rubbish. And before you tell me that RF are trying to fix that, I have to say that I don't think a load of hooligan wannabes acting like jumped up shop steward moaning about their rights are any improvment to the atmosphere.

King_Ricard Posted on 22/09/2010 12:56
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Let us not forget the paper welcome banner painted for Alves.

Sue Watson herself turned a blind eye to the fire risk on that one.

Basically health and safety rules are enforced when it suits the club.

Jon77 Posted on 22/09/2010 12:56
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Its the Nanny state gone mad.
-------------------------------------

Indeed, I can still remember being taken on to the Holgate by my Uncle as a 6 year old. He perched me on one of the standing barriers surrounded by a tightly packed crowd. When we scored there was a surge but I hung on and he hung on to me. At no point did someone stop us and say 'should you be taking a kid so young on to the Holgate' you just did if you wanted to.

I can also remember when I got my first BMX bike. We made massive ramps out of wood and spent long summer days jumping as high as we could. I cam off once or twice and banged my legs pretty hard, but I survived ok. Bike helmets saves lives of course but we managed to survive somehow, I must have got lucky I guess.

There seems to be rules and regulations covering every corner of your life these days. We get told what we can and cannot do to the point where kids especially are wrapped in cotton wool.

Whilst I understand the clubs reasons and that they have to follow policy it is still crazy nanny state stuff, bvut is the times we live in [V]

Glad I can remember a time when things were not like this.

erimus74 Posted on 22/09/2010 12:58
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I don't go at all now mate, the atmosphere is rubbish. And before you tell me that RF are trying to fix that, I have to say that I don't think a load of hooligan wannabes acting like jumped up shop steward moaning about their rights are any improvment to the atmosphere.

So what do you base your above comments on, word of mouth, so basically you've been told, by your brothers/grannies/uncles/friend that the RF are hooligans from the 70's,quality[cr]


King_Ricard Posted on 22/09/2010 13:00
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I think we can now discount any of oooooo's comments as poor informed tosh.

UTB

oooooo Posted on 22/09/2010 13:00
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That's an amazing imagination you've got there.

I've said they were wannabe hooligans because of the cringe-worthy group photos they publish of themselves covering their faces. Is there anything else you'd like me to clear up or are you just going to fill the blanks in yourself?

RedcarBlock53 Posted on 22/09/2010 13:00
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The club need to sort some actual regulations rather than moving the goal posts every game in a bid to 'tackle' the problem SEC. Sooner they print it in black and White, then offer some guarantees that 'legal' banners won't get knocked back. Sooner people can actually get on with supporting their footy club. Simples.

Jon77 Posted on 22/09/2010 13:01
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The club need to sort some actual regulations rather than moving the goal posts every game in a bid to 'tackle' the problem SEC. Sooner they print it in black and White, then offer some guarantees that 'legal' banners won't get knocked back. Sooner people can actually get on with supporting their footy club. Simples.
---------------------------
Spot on [^]

erimus74 Posted on 22/09/2010 13:01
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King_Ricard I'll 2nd that[^]

oooooo Posted on 22/09/2010 13:03
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King_Ricard, so you have to go to all the games to understand how safety regulations work?

Rufus_vel_Mortuus Posted on 22/09/2010 13:03
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"If there is a rule about fire certs, then surely the North stand banners must need a cert as well??"

You'd think that would be the case wouldnt you, unfortunately at the minute it isnt.

Midosparmo Posted on 22/09/2010 13:03
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I like the red faction since I saw the pic of the two old baldy blokes and spotty teens with their faces covered like Rome Ultras.

Best laugh ever on this site [^]

More comedy classics please RF!

sitheman Posted on 22/09/2010 13:07
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I read a comment that Red Faction had left the none fire proofed banners in the stadium after the Tuesday game. If this is true then MFC did they only thing they could do and remove them.

flyermetothemoon Posted on 22/09/2010 13:08
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The club does not deserve anyone turning up at the Riverside.

Treat everyone like 5 year olds FFS.

THE CLUBS A LAUGHING STOCK. [:P]

What next, please keep the noise down children[:O]

Jerry_Brown Posted on 22/09/2010 13:10
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As badly as this has been handled by the club, I still think the reaction by RF are like a bunch of dummy spitting splitarses.

erimus74 Posted on 22/09/2010 13:11
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I've been attending fire fighting courses for 25 years, next time I go I'll ask the question regarding fire protective clothing to be worn during Boro home games only [^]

Rufus_vel_Mortuus Posted on 22/09/2010 13:23
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"I read a comment that Red Faction had left the none fire proofed banners in the stadium after the Tuesday game. If this is true then MFC did they only thing they could do and remove them."

Tuesday (Burnley):
Banners okay be hung during matches then stored in cupboard. After the match we were told first they could stay UP until AFTER the Reading game and then after that point they'd need certificates to STAY UP. 15 minutes later the stewards tore the banners down, threw then infront of us in the SEC concourse and told us to remove them from the ground or they'd be bin'd. We filled over half a dozen black bags with all the banners we were told to take, and left.

Saturday (Reading):
Turned up with all the banners to be told nothing is allowed in at all, not even official flags bought in the club shop. No room for maneourve despite away support bringing flags in and other MFC fans bringing flags and banners in to hang during the game.




Also,

A quote from the Gazette article:
“A number of banners were taken down by club staff before Saturday’s game due to safety concerns regarding fire risks."
No RF banners were taken down before Saturdays game - our banners were taken away on Tuesday and not allowed into the ground on Saturday - im not sure what banners Mr Emmerson is talking about.

Also - the article doesnt seem to mention OFFICIAL flags bought from the CLUB SHOP, which we were not allowed to bring into the RS with us? FML there's something wrong when you buy a flag from the club shop, get to the turnstile to be told its not allowed in...

oooooo Posted on 22/09/2010 13:26
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If you won't play ball with standing and abusing stewards, you can't really expect them to act like your best mates.


King_Ricard Posted on 22/09/2010 13:31
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you witnessed this at the match didnt you?

oh hang on no..

oooooo Posted on 22/09/2010 13:34
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No, I know you stand because I read your childish and cringe-inducing 'manifesto' on here last week.

I know you abuse stewards as they regularly eject some of you and there have been many accounts on here of you goading them.

If you are saying that I can't trust any of those reports then I'll assume you are lying too.

Rufus_vel_Mortuus Posted on 22/09/2010 13:36
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"If you won't play ball with standing and abusing stewards, you can't really expect them to act like your best mates"

As i've asked before, are RF and fans in the South East Corner the only fans who constandly stand? No.

Are they the only fans who are ever questioned about it and have this held against them and brought up when topics rise? Yes.

Rufus_vel_Mortuus Posted on 22/09/2010 13:37
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"I know you abuse stewards as they regularly eject some of you"

FALSE.

oooooo Posted on 22/09/2010 13:38
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What other groups stand through-out the entire game, recruit others and actively express their intention to do so no matter what the club do?

Manfriday Posted on 22/09/2010 13:53
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Was sue watsons 'too much noise' letter, fireproof? Sounds like a petty attempt to get you back for not sitting down when told

Corcaigh_the_Cat Posted on 22/09/2010 13:57
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'What other groups stand through-out the entire game, recruit others and actively express their intention to do so no matter what the club do?'

Good on you lads. No harm done.

newyddion Posted on 22/09/2010 13:57
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How many firefighters are boro supporters?

sitheman Posted on 22/09/2010 13:59
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Cheers for clearing things up. Sounds like they are moving the goal posts for you but to be honest I have to take what you say with a pinch of salt. I think both parties are in a silly fight over this.

For the record you as a group are not helping yourself with your silly manifesto and rules anti MFC views therefore the club can and will be equally petty.

Rufus_vel_Mortuus Posted on 22/09/2010 14:01
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"What other groups stand through-out the entire game, recruit others and actively express their intention to do so no matter what the club do?"

Who mentioned other groups? I said fans - and take a look around the next game, plenty of fans stand throughout but only one set have it used against them.

Recruit others? Pardon

"actively express their intention to do so"
Sorry - i wasnt aware that people saying, if in fact they have, saying they will stand all game was an offense.

FML its a football ground.

OPEO Posted on 22/09/2010 14:05
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MFC would shoot themselves in the foot with a decommisioned weapon.
I had half a dozen flags at the back of the NE corner for three or four seasons and never took them down.
One of them was a collection of old Boro shirts but I suppose that wouldn't go down well in the SEC.[:D]

STEEL_CITY_SMOGGY Posted on 22/09/2010 14:08
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Surely any stadium rule should be a case of one rule for all and not different rules for different areas. Although I am obviously in favour of having all the banners up why is it only in the SE corner where it is a 'fire hazard'. Complete and utter b ollocks

boro-is-in-my-blood Posted on 22/09/2010 14:16
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I seem to remember the club giving the kids them foam hands, not very health and safety concious then i guess :-$

Dibzzz Posted on 22/09/2010 14:26
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How the fcuk is that banner going to catch fire? By the same tolken, maybe match day programmes, betting slips and the bags you get your food in should be banned too, as they are all flamable.

FFS.

What joke.

TenPints Posted on 22/09/2010 14:33
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Tell me if i'm wrong , but is this not what this forum/fanzine is all about ? Voice of the people . Get Rob and the fanzine team to knock something up in preparation for the next home game .

Rufus_vel_Mortuus Posted on 22/09/2010 14:34
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Yerjokingarentya![DFS]

oooooo Posted on 22/09/2010 14:35
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You will find Rob probably does not want to align himself with them. He won't campaign on your behalf, you'd have to write your own article at least.

djlocky9999 Posted on 22/09/2010 14:36
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rob question the club! unheard of!!!

Dibzzz Posted on 22/09/2010 14:44
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Is he still in love with Pogatetz ?

Jon77 Posted on 22/09/2010 14:46
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Tell me if i'm wrong , but is this not what this forum/fanzine is all about ? Voice of the people . Get Rob and the fanzine team to knock something up in preparation for the next home game .
----------------------------------------
Rob might say it isn't but FMTTM is as much as an official MFC programme as the official MFC programme is.

levendale Posted on 22/09/2010 14:58
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Just read one of the fans comments in the gazette about when there is a fire and some fans are killed etc .
Some people really need to take a reality check sometimes .

TenPints Posted on 22/09/2010 15:00
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It is not about Rob supporting any group within the stadium . Its about him throwing his weight behind any fan from wanting to stick a flag up in the stadium . Like others have said MFC appear to put a spanner in the works . When the fans try to genarate any type of colour/atmosphere in the ground .

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 22/09/2010 15:02
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"FMTTM is as much as an official MFC programme as the official MFC programme is."

Nonsense.

djlocky9999 Posted on 22/09/2010 15:04
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the whole thing is rob's fault for his failure to push the club on these matters. its a disgrace [:P][:P][:P]

TenPints Posted on 22/09/2010 15:08
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Exactly djlocky9999 . Many of the FMTTM do-gooders need to wake up and smell the coffee . The club will take your money , but will they feck let you genarate any form of atmosphere . Bullyboy tactics again by the club .

tomtom3 Posted on 22/09/2010 15:38
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Here we go again the red faction having to follow rules and they dont like it and choose to bleat to message boards etc to plead their case.

What the fans on the day are trying to acchieve has to be appluded the atmosphere the colour the whole match day effort is spot on. However the politics of the people running it is just unbelievable, because they like all of us have to follow rules they feel picked on and bleat to every one who will listen. They wont buy club merchandise, what is all that about. They wont but club refreshments, what is all that about. They want everyone to wear scarves over there faces, what is all that about.

The fans on the day are superb and a credit to themselves. The so called leaders are pathetic, support our team and stand together as one, if you want a cause to fight then join Greenpeace and stop making MFC look stupid at every oppertunity


Smogariffic_MFC Posted on 22/09/2010 15:41
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Theres a meeting with the club before the Pompy game, so it should all be cleared up soon!

I really do think the section where RF sit gets more attention from the club because of the way they go against the club. Granted other area's of the ground so stand up, but not for prolonged periods of time like the RF do, infact i hardly every see them sat, this is why the attention is negative towards them. Other area's in the ground stand up, sing and then sit back down, they dont constantly stand and bounce about for the match.

This will never end unless there is a bit of give and take on both sides. RF have to take it that if MFC dont want you standing constantly then why not just listen and not stand constantly and then maybe the club would be more leniant with things with you? ... Maybe the club should work with the RF banners and inject a small ammount of cash into the banners being fireproofed and having the correct safety certificates so they can be put back up for the match and add the colour, then be taken down after the match to be put up for the next home game?

At the end of the day, MFC make the rules wether we like them or not. It's daft to try enforce your own rules as your NEVER going to win over a business the size of MFC. Hopefully some sort of agreement will be reached between RF and the club and end this annoying argument!

Rufus_vel_Mortuus Posted on 22/09/2010 15:42
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"because they like all of us have to follow rules they feel picked on and bleat to every one who will listen. They wont buy club merchandise, what is all that about. They wont but club refreshments, what is all that about. They want everyone to wear scarves over there faces, what is all that about."

I feel like i should have the SAME rules as everybody else, this is not the case at the minute. How can you not see what is written in 80-90odd posts before yours? If rules are set, then fine, we will abide by them. Give us rules and guidelines on flags and banners and ensure they are set out, and adhered to by every supporter.

wont buy club merchandse - we bought flags from the club shop and were told they were not allowed in the stadium

They wont but club refreshments - i bought a burger AND a drink on Saturday, dont tell anyone though

shaunb86 Posted on 22/09/2010 15:43
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another idiot who doesn't have a clue what he is talking about.

Rufus_vel_Mortuus Posted on 22/09/2010 15:46
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"Granted other area's of the ground so stand up, but not for prolonged periods of time like the RF do"
Not true.

"they dont constantly stand and bounce about for the match"
Teessiders, like to bounce around the ground

Sue Watson c/o MFC told us to go to Block 53, they knew the proximity of the section and the link it has to being near away fans.

"inject a small ammount of cash"
We don't want their money - we are 100% NOT funded by the club.

Away fans can bring banners, hang them, then take them home - why can't we? This ridiculous rule that any banner being brought into the RS needs fireproofing is only being used against RF and has only come into play over the last week...

fatharrywhite Posted on 22/09/2010 15:46
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"If rules are set, then fine, we will abide by them"

i take it you wont be standing constantly at the next home game then?

Smogariffic_MFC Posted on 22/09/2010 15:51
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do they rufus? because i only ever see that area of the ground persistently doing it. take it up wit the club in the meeting, your not going to the the answers whinging about it on the message board.

like i said theres got to be abit of give and take on both sides, more your side. everyone has backed what you lot are trying to do even myself a "hated steward" by trying to bring the atmosphere back to the match days. but alot of people also agree on here that some of your policy that was posted is over the top. whatever way anyone looks at it it needs to be sorted out and cleared up in the meeting with the club as it's going to drag on and on and on and to be fairly honest, RF are always going to be fighting and losing battle against the club if some sort of agreement between the two isnt sorted out.

take a leaf out of 12th mans book? fair enough there funded by the club but they work closely with the club and follow the clubs rules hence their troubless success.

RedcarBlock53 Posted on 22/09/2010 15:53
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Troubless yes. Hardly a massive success though.

tomtom3 Posted on 22/09/2010 15:54
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Yes i read the posts before mine,so thanks for asking that. The point is you DO have the same rules as every body else but you want to make such big deals out of things for your own end. As i pointed out the main core of support in that corner is superb but you seem to miss that bit. The club have to act against people like the RF leaders as you want to fight and that would seem to include you. Why dont you put all this energy into supporting rather than fighting a cause it just puzzles me

If i am wrong about buying club products then i appologise however i have spoken to quite a few of the Rf members and have been told different. You have brought nothing but negative publicity since the day you started which is sad because there are a lot of young peoplr who go in the coener and have fun and you are just filling their heads with politics

tomtom3 Posted on 22/09/2010 15:56
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Shunb86, could you just confirm is it myself your comment is aimed against

another idiot who doesn't have a clue what he is talking about.


shaunb86 Posted on 22/09/2010 15:57
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surely constantly standing and sitting is more dangerous than standing all game?

Your point that the RF are always going to be fighting a losing battle about sums up the attitude of people who work for the club towards the fans. They shut people up if they don't dance along to their tune. well enough is enough!

Define the 12th mans success please?

shaunb86 Posted on 22/09/2010 16:00
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yes you tomtom. you base your opinion on speaking to a few people. i have no political agenda at all and am part of the RF. i want to improve the matchday atmosphere and add colour to the ground. at the moment our club is doing everything they can to stop that! whilst bending over backwards for other people to help them do it. thats why we are complaining. its the club making themselves look foolish again. if they didnt do stupid things (see lettergate) then they wouldn't bring this negative attention.

Smogariffic_MFC Posted on 22/09/2010 16:01
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how does it define it? its common sense! do you really think MFC are just going to lay down and let RF do what they want, a group of teenagers and a few grown ups arent going to beat a corporate business the size of MFC.

ive clearly just stated im all for them trying to relight (no pun intended) the atmosphere at the riverside, but there are certain ways to go about it and certainly better ones that are being used at the moment! if agreements are reached with the club in the meeting then happy days. there has to be give and take on both sides.

shaunb86 Posted on 22/09/2010 16:05
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No i am asking you to define the 12th mans success. What have they done that makes you say they have been succesful? because they haven't challenged the club? By the way i like what they are doing. but for you to say that we are troublesome and they are a success confuses me.

tomtom3 Posted on 22/09/2010 16:07
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Interesting that because my comments do not agree with yours then i have not got a clue, i think that backs up my point about the people who run the RF and also yourself.

What i do know is that since the RF have come on the scene they have brought nothing but bad publicity against MFC. Again on a matchday the opposite, there efforts in the ground have to be applauded but again you ignore this point. My statement around talking to some peolpe is a little more in deapth but it does not matter. If you have no other agenda than supporting the club why instead of bleating on here dont you bin the bad influence in the RF, from the leadership, and just support the club.

Smogariffic_MFC Posted on 22/09/2010 16:09
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well when 12th man first started out they did improve the atmosphere. they have worked with the club with the banners and when the boro surfer was banned they left it out until they had got it sorted and didnt come on here whinging about it. they dont make a mini bible for their group or have rules to follow for that group!

i didnt once say you are troublesome, when i said troubless i meant theres been no real fuss over things that the 12th man have ever done.

the way the RF go about things and try to rebel against the club is whats drawing all the negativity towards the group. the sooner its sorted out the better.

Boro_Dave91 Posted on 22/09/2010 16:10
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I think it was took down because it looks like a 3 year old made it and they had to remove others so they didn't hurt the kids feelings [8)]

sitheman Posted on 22/09/2010 16:19
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For those that have supported Boro for more than 3 years than you know what the 12th man have done.

King_Ricard Posted on 22/09/2010 16:19
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Doesnt the boro surfer pre-date the Twe12th Man by several years?

Boro_Dave91 Posted on 22/09/2010 16:20
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"Doesnt the boro surfer pre-date the Twe12th Man by several years?"

I don't think so? I think they are just more well known now than they were when the surfer was made.

lockey Posted on 22/09/2010 16:25
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"Away fans can bring banners, hang them, then take them home - why can't we? This ridiculous rule that any banner being brought into the RS needs fireproofing is only being used against RF and has only come into play over the last week..."


"If there is a rule about fire certs, then surely the North stand banners must need a cert as well??"

You'd think that would be the case wouldnt you, unfortunately at the minute it isnt."


That is the case though? As of Saturday the club want every banner on show at the riverside to have a Fire Cert of some sort shown to them. Including the ones in the north stand.


"I know you abuse stewards as they regularly eject some of you"

FALSE.

Not quite false though is it, You said on Saturday 2 lads were thrown out for standing,yet another member came and said they deserved to be ejected for giving the stewards Grief.





King_Ricard Posted on 22/09/2010 16:26
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No sorry I know that the boro surfer predates the Twe12th Man

Smogariffic_MFC Posted on 22/09/2010 16:28
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the same group who are 12th man made the boro banner. they came out publicly and were known as the 12th man a couple of seasons later.

King_Ricard Posted on 22/09/2010 16:29
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Thanks for clearing that up [^]

ccole Posted on 22/09/2010 16:32
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When are you allowed to stand up?

After a goal?
Winning a corner?
To applaud a player?
While signing?

And how long for?


Why are these rules in place? and how exactly do they make me/other supporters feel safer during a game?


I have nothing to do with RF, I wouldn’t dream of travelling with them or sitting among them, they are not my "cup of tea", but what the club is doing is wrong and OTT.

And thats the point here.

This is a game of football FFS. A sport that has been successful because it tugs on people emotions, yet year by year fires me up less and less, and actions like this against fans only speed the dumbing down of the sport faster to a level that I (and many others when you look at the empty seats) just don’t want to be at.

Its not the victimisation of the RF people that I am worried about, it’s the manor in which our club has chosen to handle the situation and war against people who clearly just want to cheer the team.

We all should be concerned


foggysfplandiet Posted on 22/09/2010 16:38
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Very litigious times we live in. Technically if banners haven't been checked for fire safety I guess the club could be fined. Sad but there we are.

tomtom3 Posted on 22/09/2010 16:43
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Well Shaunb86 it looks like you have not got the total sympathy you were looking for today, by as you pointed out, reading other posts on here.

Put your energy into supporting the club and not fighting it, that is what real fans do. I am lead to believe that one of your current "leaders" has spat his dummy out as he has in the past with other fans groups so maybee if you are serious in supporting our club you should lead the group yourself and work together with all parties then you would be taken seriously.

Pogatetz_Ate_My_Hamster Posted on 22/09/2010 16:47
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Have they got fire certs for all them Tarten Blankets in the West Stand?

Smogariffic_MFC Posted on 22/09/2010 16:49
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haha i like the blanket comment the best [^] [smi]

shaunb86 Posted on 22/09/2010 16:54
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Tom - you are so mis-informed about us I find it quite funny. We don't want sympathy.the post was started by someone who is not part of the group after seeing an article in the gazette.however,if you look back on the thread I would say about 80% of fellow boro fans agree that it is a stupid decision.

boro_tyke Posted on 22/09/2010 16:59
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”the same group who are 12th man made the boro banner. they came out publicly and were known as the 12th man a couple of seasons later.”

Complete and utter rubbish.

King_Ricard Posted on 22/09/2010 17:00
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there is also a difference between spitting out your dummy and leaving something that is in a state of terminal stagnation. I get the feeling that said person has backed the correct horse this time.

tomtom3 Posted on 22/09/2010 17:03
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shaunb86. My only info comes from what i see. I see a group of people with good intentions on a match day, being lead by a group of idiots who crave attention and power. As i have said i take my hat off to the match day effort however if as you say you dont want sympathy why are you bleating all your supposed injustices on here and any other public forum you can get.

Just for the record i also agree banning banners etc is stupid its just the RF approach to these and other issues that i find pathetic

The_263 Posted on 22/09/2010 17:16
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tomtom - are you from the club or FMTTM? [:D]

Dibzzz Posted on 22/09/2010 17:17
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Let's be honest, my 3 yearold could have done a better banner.

It's pretty s h i t isn't it?

Anyway, keep fighting Parky !

lockey Posted on 22/09/2010 17:19
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Whether it was a XXXXXXe banner or not it was still a banner showing there support at the end of the end.

tomtom3 Posted on 22/09/2010 17:22
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No not from the club or FMTTM ha ha ha ha

Just a fan with an opinion that does not seem to sit well with people on here. Supporting Boro is dificult enough these days without fans arguing with the club publicly. as i have said many times today i applaud what the RF are doing on a matchday basis

Holgatewall Posted on 22/09/2010 17:22
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Middlesbrough Football Club come out of this looking very bad indeed.

Not for the first time a massive own goal by the club and another kicking for the fans.

Shame on them

grantus Posted on 22/09/2010 17:47
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Yup - I agree, more PR own goals for the club.

Can they not see the stadium is over half empty and they are pushing what's left out the door.

The club needs to wake up quick, it's a hell of a lot harder to get supporters back once they have gone and MOST of them have now gone.

Pogatetz_Ate_My_Hamster Posted on 22/09/2010 17:52
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The club seem intent on turning the Riverside into a souless, lifeless, colourless morgue.

Joe_Laidlaw Posted on 22/09/2010 17:54
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I would suggest having a boycott but 20,000 of us have already done that and the club are still not listening.

P.S. Only read the first few posts on this thread and got bored.

Chris_From_Pitchside Posted on 22/09/2010 17:55
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I'm fully on the side of the Red Faction in this matter despite not supporting some of their militant ideology.

They should be encouraged. Not persecuted...

bevoboro Posted on 22/09/2010 17:59
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That leather sphere the players kick around could cause a hell of a lot of damage if it hit one of the fans in the stands. I think the club should ban that as well just to be on the safe side.

HardTimes Posted on 22/09/2010 18:03
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"Also - the article doesnt seem to mention OFFICIAL flags bought from the CLUB SHOP, which we were not allowed to bring into the RS with us? FML there's something wrong when you buy a flag from the club shop, get to the turnstile to be told its not allowed in..."

I am sure i read on here the other day a statement in which RF as a group were trying to distance themselves from buying official MFC merchandise.
I cant be 100% correct on the matter mind as i cant seem to remember or find the thread in question.

otto62 Posted on 22/09/2010 18:05
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Red Faction come out of this looking very bad indeed.

Not for the first time a massive own goal by the supporters group and another kicking for the club.

Shame on them


6876 Posted on 22/09/2010 18:14
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I would say its the club who come out of this looking bad.

I think there is more behind this that the the ridiculous reasons given in the article.

Wait till the national press here about this over the next couple of days.

Another stick gifted to them to beat us with.

mowbrays_number_4 Posted on 22/09/2010 18:24
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Twe12th Man banners comply with club rules, we had to update fire certs for some to achieve this. We have a good working relationship with the club built up over many years. Any iussues that we have had have been dealt with privately and with compromise, we have built trust up over a long period. despite some ridiculous claims we are not funded by the club, we applied for and achieved a Barclays Creating Chances grant as we were a community group. We raise money through sales of scarves, t-shirts, badges and the sale of blind cards on away coaches and fundraisers.




levendale Posted on 22/09/2010 18:30
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You don,t have a good relationship with the club , you just do as you are told .

Boro_Dave91 Posted on 22/09/2010 18:32
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"You don,t have a good relationship with the club , you just do as you are told ."

Which is how it should be, some idiots don't seem to realise that.

Pogatetz_Ate_My_Hamster Posted on 22/09/2010 18:34
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Surely the club should be working with these groups to produce 'fire safe' flags and banners rather than this approach which just rubs everyone up the wrong way

Boro_Dave91 Posted on 22/09/2010 18:36
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"Surely the club should be working with these groups to produce 'fire safe' flags and banners rather than this approach which just rubs everyone up the wrong way"

Is that not why they are having a meeting with fans, to sort these issues out?

Pogatetz_Ate_My_Hamster Posted on 22/09/2010 18:38
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Which will probably be the club saying sod off until you get fire certs.

They should be arranging for that to happen for them

levendale Posted on 22/09/2010 18:42
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Give your head a shake young man , we,re supposed to be footie fans .

MawTheMerrier Posted on 22/09/2010 18:45
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Y'know, just reading this thread, it is obvious that there is a major PR problem at the club. There are some passionate Boro fans who are unhappy with their treatment. Can MFC afford to alienate any more fans?


boro-is-in-my-blood Posted on 22/09/2010 18:47
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Mn4 where did the banners get the certs and how much? Also with out naming names a friend of mine has a large flag/banner with no fire cert and that was present at the last game left unchallenged. Ant tbh untill i seem a fire cert for a banner i would be inclined to thimk thete isnt one,i still can not see why any banners took down after the match should need fire certs.

Boro_Dave91 Posted on 22/09/2010 18:50
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"Give your head a shake young man , we,re supposed to be footie fans ."

Liking football doesn't define a person, wth are you on about [rle]

mowbrays_number_4 Posted on 22/09/2010 18:51
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Most of ours came with FC's but some had to be sprayed and approved. Cleveland Fire Brigade can help you with this.

levendale Posted on 22/09/2010 18:56
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Put me right on this , what happened to boro fans going to the match , having a few beers and a good time . As far as i am aware no other club heeds the health and safety act like us .
It might not be right , but a few fans on here claim flags sold in the club shop are not allowed in the ground , can you not see how riduclous that is .

Boro_Dave91 Posted on 22/09/2010 18:59
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You can still have beer and fun, and as far as flags from the club shop are concerned I'd guess that means the club had a re-think about fire safety and decided they weren't safe enough so will make adjustments to the flags being sold so they will be allowed in. And saying that there was a young lad near me with his dad waving a flag about so maybe it was just certain ones not allowed in.

boro-is-in-my-blood Posted on 22/09/2010 19:08
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mn4 i am in daily contact with fireman through my job, i spoke to them and they said they dont do it for insurance reasons infact one of the chief officers said the fire proofing of banners does not work and is a gimmick because it rubs off very easy and is not weather proof, all the handling of the north stand surfer means it would need spraying every game to be fire safe. This is what i am told by a fire officer and tcis fire prevention and hawkes fire prevention all said the same i dont really know much about it except what i have been told.

Leg_End Posted on 22/09/2010 19:18
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Do they really need to ban flags and banners though?

Is it compulsary or will the ground close down if they dont?

Do other teams have the same ground rules?

Do fans really have to sit down? Is there a rule that states that fans must sit for 90 mins?

Why stop at banners being fireproofed. What about clothes, programmes, blankets etc etc?

There has to be a line drawn somewhere otherwise the matchday experience will be so XXXXXXg dull (as if it already isnt)itll be compulsary to sit in silence like a game of snooker.

Keep standing and singing RF. All this H&S stuff is a load of bollox




mowbrays_number_4 Posted on 22/09/2010 19:20
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You have been misinformed. Once fireproofed they remain safe even after many washes.

ThePrisoner Posted on 22/09/2010 19:21
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Me and my friends once painted an old bed sheet with the words 'Jack's Red Army' and hung it over the stair-way in the south east corner at Ayresome Park.

Jumpers for goal-posts. Marvellous.

boro_tyke Posted on 22/09/2010 19:24
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”despite some ridiculous claims we are not funded by the club, we applied for and achieved a Barclays Creating Chances grant as we were a community group”

Both you and I know that your ‘community’ group was tipped the wink by the club to make an application MN4 when bona-fide charitable organisations were overlooked for one of the 20 awards.

As a long-standing and fully registered community group in the true sense (and with more than 6 regular attendees to meetings), Middlesbrough’s own Official Supporters Club were also surprisingly overlooked.

Clearly being in bed with the club has its benefits, though I doubt Red Faction would sell their soul quite so cheaply.

juninhosdivingheader Posted on 22/09/2010 19:34
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boro-tyke - are you seriously trying to say that the club went against the supporters club in their application? No, didn't think so. I'm a member and I know they never applied for a Creating Chances donation.

as for the banners - the club have made it clear they welcome them as long as they are safe. It will no doubt be water under the bridge come the next game.

As usual the Gazette use anything like this to batter Boro in the hope of selling 151 papers on Teesside instead of 150.

billdoor Posted on 22/09/2010 20:01
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Surely this whole thing seems incredibly simple?

Have your meeting with the club, get whatever fireproofing you need done to hang them there all the time, and do it.

Won't that be problem solved or am I missing something?


boro-is-in-my-blood Posted on 22/09/2010 20:08
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"You have been misinformed. Once fireproofed they remain safe even after many washes."
well it must of been mickey mouse i was talking to not a chief fire officer, joking aside have you got any names phone numbers to contact them on because they told me they do not do them.

dodger Posted on 22/09/2010 20:16
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Fireproof banners [:D]

Health and Safety excuse for a petty , vindictive act by our club against our fans.


grantus Posted on 22/09/2010 20:29
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Let's all pray that our bedsheets do not set fire to themselves whilst we all sleep tonight.

mowbrays_number_4 Posted on 22/09/2010 20:32
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I personally know two CFB SO's. Andy Breeze and Steve McCarten. I spoke to them about fire certs when i knew we needed them.

Old peoples homes, for example, have to re-treat their furnishings (curtains, bedclothes etc) after a certain number of washes to comply with fire regs. Just recently, i spoke to the on duty fire officer on matchdays, who informed me that our banners/flags will be ok because of this.

boro tyke, the club informed the twe12th man and many other organisations about the creating chances scheme. It seems that since you left the twe12th man you keep trying to bring some doubt to this. A bit like nazi propaganda, if you repeat the same lies over and over again then some people will believe it,

The only flags that didn't have fire certs were the ones you got made with twe12th man money and then 'took for repair' when you left, after crashing the website and starting your smear campaign on here and every other message board. It seems that some original RF core members have also recently cottoned on to you and have left.


sixtyniner69 Posted on 22/09/2010 20:35
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we need a lawyers view on this

where is bl00dy "adi-dem" when you need him


if i bought a flag with receipt on matchday from the club shop

and i was then refused entry into the ground because i had said flag as sold by the club on matchday from a shop which is built within the stadium unless i surrendered the flag that was sold to me from within the stadium

would trading standards have a good case to close the club shop down for fraudulent trading ie knowingly selling products that were unfit for purpose ie waving at the game

boro-is-in-my-blood Posted on 22/09/2010 20:37
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good point sixtyniner69, and thanks for the reply mn4 [^]

aweeboro Posted on 22/09/2010 20:44
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The elephant in the room is that the club secretly feels it made a mistake by having particularly active fans move to the SE corner due to proximity to the away fans and what it would regard as a greater risk of crowd disorder. Someone in the club is very embarrassed about this. The lack of honesty over this has resulted in the club trying lots of otherways to dig itself out of this hole. No doubt they would like to sicken people off so they will move or at the very least suppress the popularity of this area.

Whether we agree that it was a mistake or not I think many of us know that this is the real situation and the club simply dare not speak the truth.

sixtyniner69 Posted on 22/09/2010 20:48
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in fact if anyone has a receipt for a flag as sold by the MFC shop please keep hold of it, it might be required

the purpose of the flag as sold by the club shop is that it is waived at the match

second point have the club since they recognised the health and safety vulnerabilities of flags applied the same strict health and safety standards to ALL the products it sells that may be taken into the ground:
shirts
flags
carrier bags!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
foam hands

if not they should be under scrutiny from H&S as well as trading standards

levendale Posted on 22/09/2010 20:50
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I think the club wants to be very careful otherwise we will have another pr disaster on our hands .

dodger Posted on 22/09/2010 20:55
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69 that is shocking.

Did they refuse you entry with the flag ,that was sold to you from within the stadium on Health and Safety grounds ?

sixtyniner69 Posted on 22/09/2010 21:15
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NOT YET BUT I MIGHT WELL BE VERY SOON!!!

it is not only the right of the young to rebel[;)]

it is the inalienable rights of an englishman to rebel against unjust laws[rle]

i can feel an arrest coming on[B)]

boro_tyke Posted on 23/09/2010 00:32
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”Boro tyke, the club informed the twe12th man and many other organisations about the creating chances scheme. It seems that since you left the twe12th man you keep trying to bring some doubt to this. A bit like nazi propaganda, if you repeat the same lies over and over again then some people will believe it,

The only flags that didn't have fire certs were the ones you got made with twe12th man money and then 'took for repair' when you left, after crashing the website and starting your smear campaign on here and every other message board. It seems that some original RF core members have also recently cottoned on to you and have left.”







MN4: Its quite strange that within a thread of over 100 random posts, you choose to take issue with one from me containing fact rather than opinion.

It seems lies and propaganda are not the sole domain of Red Faction!

Whilst on the subject and once again setting the record straight in public; you’ll also find (as if this hasn’t been made clear to you on numerous occasions previously) that any flags I personally own, were instigated, designed, manufactured and paid for personally. With any monies due (from a reluctant and voluntary treasurer at the time), handed over and accounted for fully upon leaving the community group. Your own records and now full-time treasurer will confirm a substantial payment was made. Clearly after three years, if there were any discrepencies, you would have taken steps to recover them through legal channels as I understand that would be fraud.

I’m also flattered to be credited with the knowledge and know-how of being able to crash a website and instigate a smear campaign against a group that needed no such help in becoming anonymous. It gives me even greater pleasure that you should choose to recognise my achievements by including me on your wonderful new flags. Thus ensuring Red Faction will never be truly banned from the Riverside, however many RF core members ’cotton onto me‘ and leave, as you put it.

You should try following the lead of others in your group who remain open to dialogue with RF towards a joint effort in working together for the greater good of the team my friend.

HardTimes Posted on 23/09/2010 00:50
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happy days

newyddion Posted on 23/09/2010 01:36
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just set fire to the empty seats [ref]

newyddion Posted on 23/09/2010 01:41
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FLAGS = FIRE


Link: = ATMOSPHERE

mowbrays_number_4 Posted on 23/09/2010 06:51
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boro tyke - we were just glad to get shot of you. You wanted conflict and confrontation withthe club while with the twe12th man. No one else did and that is why you chose to leave. Crashing the website happened immediately after. Coincedence? No. I am glad that the RF are beginning to realise just what a complex man they have within their midst.

They would be advised to ditch you and your mate and work with the club within ground regulations.

You are not an ULTRA and never will be. You were pleased to pose for photos and represent MFC when with the twe12th man now all of a sudden you are bound by RF ethos and ULTRA code of conduct,

Laughable.

djlocky9999 Posted on 23/09/2010 08:14
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They would be advised to ditch you and your mate and work with the club within ground regulations.

so having no one in your group, creating no noise, and bringing out a new flag on a yearly basis. sounds XXXXXXing mint mate, sign me up [;)]

fatharrywhite Posted on 23/09/2010 08:45
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"creating no noise"

well, in fairness to them they now sit a few rows behind me and they're pretty loud for most of the game

Dan_Ashcroft Posted on 23/09/2010 08:54
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Surely every Boro fan jumping up an down to celebrate a goal is a serious health and safety issue? I've never been injured standing up at an away match, but have had numerous 'goal celebration' incidents.

I'm in full agreement about the dangers in principle, and having noticed that my settee is certified as fire-proof, do you think the club will allow me to bring it in, if I sit down all game? I'm not going to throw it on the pitch or owt.

Manfriday Posted on 23/09/2010 09:06
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Arnt most handmade banners written on bedsheets? Are bedsheets not already made fireproof to some degree? Ive never had a bedsheet spontaniously combust on me during the night

Tommy_Dickfingers Posted on 23/09/2010 09:28
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is boro tyke the leader of the red faction that actually sits in the north stand [cr]

King_Ricard Posted on 23/09/2010 09:41
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Maybe except the RF dont have a self appointed leader we have the core members who are all equal and have as much say as the next man.

boro_tyke Posted on 23/09/2010 09:44
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[^]

Tommy_Dickfingers Posted on 23/09/2010 09:45
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does he jump up & down by himself in the north stand in time to the red faction pmsl

King_Ricard Posted on 23/09/2010 09:48
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he might do, im sure it will look better than when the six people in 'the new firm' try to do "if your not jumping your not boro"

PMSL

Tommy_Dickfingers Posted on 23/09/2010 09:49
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why do you all fight between each othere and the club.


boro_tyke Posted on 23/09/2010 10:17
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There seems to be a popular misconception among Boro fans that Red Faction actively pursue a campaign of confrontation with the club. This is strictly untrue.

Part of Red Faction’s existence is to claim back a little of the matchday experience which modern football – and our club as part of that culture – has taken away from ordinary fans. Red Faction fully realise there are rules and boundaries but would not be doing ourselves justice if we were not to challenge the club on issues concerning how fans – and paying customers – are allowed to support the team.

Red Faction are guilty of nothing, if not standing up for a fair and resaonable deal for fans to follow the team that they pay for the privilege to do so. Whilst it would be foolish to suggest fans in the SE Corner have been angels, the majority of conflict with the club has been brought about by a plain lack of understanding, prejudice and constantly changing club policy aimed at controlling and restricting a progressive groups influence.

If we wanted to sit in near-silence, waive our right to freedom of speech and the right to an objective and constructive opinion as paying customers, have our banners and messages censored by the club, we would have joined the Twe12th Man.

Consider Red Faction as shareholders demanding accountability in basic terms. The principle is no different and is far from the group fighting with the club.

Tommy_Dickfingers Posted on 23/09/2010 10:20
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do you wear one of those t-shirts with that cuban gadge on ?

MawTheMerrier Posted on 23/09/2010 10:20
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"Hard Times" posted "Happy Days"

[:D]

As to flags, you have to admit to seeing hundreds of these just burst into flames for no apparent reason. Some people see it as petty, small minded, power mad people trying to impose their will and spoil the fun for other people,

.....others think they're Nazi's

King_Ricard Posted on 23/09/2010 10:23
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Tommy - Individual members will have their own political view points.

As to whether the group wears shirts with Fidel Castro on, that must be who you ment as Che Guervara was Argentinian then some might.

But its just as likely to see people wearing a tshirt with Bakunin or Morrissey on in the SEC.

MarlonD Posted on 23/09/2010 10:31
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Reading this thread it seems to me that RF think that if they gain enough support they can pretty much do wnat they want and as far as liasing with the club the attitude seems to be 'its our way or no way.'

As I've said before the RF and 12th man should be alongside each other to help create a bigger noise and the ideal place is our 'kop' behind the goal but from what I can gather the self proclaimed spokesman for the RF seems to think that involving his own politics with football is the way forward.

Politics and football don't mix, ask Tony Blair the Newcastle fan.

ccole Posted on 23/09/2010 10:48
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This is why the clubs wish for dominance and control over this is wrong…..

Following the clubs intended policy, the people who made the “Trophy Virgins” banner last season would need it fire proofed and approved by the club BEFORE taking it into the stadium. (you would need to book an appointment, submit designs, await approval...)

So one of the funniest moments of last season would never have happened. The club would never have allowed it in case it upset rival supporters.

wheelz Posted on 23/09/2010 10:51
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MarlonD, I echo your sentiments, and, without any intention to get involved in what seems to be developing into a slanging match on this thread, I would like to offer my two penn'orth and state what I consider to be factual..

1. ALL 12M banners comply with the Club's safety requests..

2. 12M are NOT bankrolled by the Club... it is run as a not-for-profit, self-funding group

3. There is no agenda by 12M to 'compete' with RF...

4. ultimately, as I perceive it, both have a similar aim -- to improve the atmosphere and matchday enjoyment @ RS..


The constant spouting of unsubstantiated and unfounded allegations towards 12M from some of the 'RF Core' is becoming tedious and bordering on slanderous, tbh, and their necessity to perpetuate the impression that there is some kind of fans 'turf war' is pettiness in the extreme, doesn't do their 'group' any favours, and diminishes their credibility with other Boro fans, imho..

Thanks for reading.. I'll go back to sleep now.. [|)]

boro_tyke Posted on 23/09/2010 11:02
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Marlon:

That’s the whole point of the group my friend, there are no self-appointed leaders in Red Faction. And certainly no political inclination.

If you’d have read my earlier post, you would have learned that the group fully understand that there are rules and regulations which fans are bound by in modern football stadiums. How does that constitute a group thinking they can do pretty much what they like?

That said, if Red Faction don’t do it, who is going to challenge the club on certain issues? Certainly as a club MFC have no representative body – other than a failing Official Supporters’ Club to be openly accountable to. The fans’ charter the club introduced some years back is worth nothing more than the paper it was drafted on and, as Red Faction have found first-hand, carries little weight when push comes to shove.

It should also be clear the group wish to represent no-one but those involved in Red Faction and make no pretense to influence other fans or groups.

jpk2412 Posted on 23/09/2010 11:06
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I WOULD SUGGEST THIS HAS BECOME DEEPLY EMBARRASSING FOR THE CLUB AS THEY HAVE BEEN ILL ADVISED . THEY SHOULD BITE THE BULLET ADMIT IT WAS A MISTAKE AND RECIND THIS STUPID POLICY.

hewielewie Posted on 23/09/2010 11:07
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Caps Lock alert!!

boro_tyke Posted on 23/09/2010 11:09
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“The constant spouting of unsubstantiated and unfounded allegations towards 12M from some of the 'RF Core' is becoming tedious and bordering on slanderous, tbh, and their necessity to perpetuate the impression that there is some kind of fans 'turf war' is pettiness in the extreme, doesn't do their 'group' any favours, and diminishes their credibility with other Boro fans, imho..”




Clearly your ability to take a balanced view at any slanderous allegations is seriously impaired by your own special brand of Twe12th Man ‘impartiality’.

I was always under the impression that a slanging match was indeed that. A match between TWO sides. I can assure you slanderous allegations are not the sole domain of RF core members on this thread.

MarlonD Posted on 23/09/2010 11:11
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So we have a 'failing' official supporters club and the 12th man pander to the clubs every whim, in your opinion.

Could these be your opinions because you're not part of these groups and once were ?

Don't make following a football team so complicated and political toi suit your own personal agendas and let the lads and lasses who want to be vocal, support their team without wondering whether they are allowed to wear a Boro top, whether they should sit down if a steward tells them to, whether they should feel guilty for subscribibg to sky sports etc etc.

And don't come up with the 'ethos' argument either because you know as well as I do that publicicsing an ethos is another way of promoting your policies and trying to isolate every one who attends the game in the SE corner when all the vast, and I mean vast, majority want to do is sing and watch the football, not have someone preaching to them from a soapbox.

myboro Posted on 23/09/2010 11:23
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Wheelz "The constant spouting of unsubstantiated and unfounded allegations towards 12M from some of the 'RF Core' is becoming tedious and bordering on slanderous"

Looking at this thread that is a 2 way thing. As a member of neither it is all a bit childish - ON BOTH SIDES

On the point of the thread, if the club are going to change the rules then they should have the decency to "communicate" the new rules in time for them to be complied with.

12thMan and RF - well done for trying to make the match more enjoyable

Club Staff - Shame on you for being so petty

Just my 2peneth

captain5 Posted on 23/09/2010 11:25
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RF sounds like fun.

How do I join??

boro_tyke Posted on 23/09/2010 11:43
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Marlon: Please read my posts.

How many times do I have to make this clear; Red Faction have no political inclination. No agenda towards any other group or organisation and certainly no heavy-handed tactics towards a dress-code or influencing purchasing patterns.

Fans populate the SE Corner because they see something mildly exciting and want to join in. The ethos (which I have no particular leaning towards myself believe it or not) is there merely as an guide for people who WISH to get involved do so knowing what Red Faction stand for.

Whilst no one is asking you to get involved, it is clear any explanation I make only serves to provide more amunition to fuel your the opinion you clearly already hold against Red Faction. And that’s fine.

MarlonD Posted on 23/09/2010 11:53
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My opinion of the fans in the SE corner is that they are comitted to following the team and their vocal support is excellent and certainly makes me smile at times when I look across at them during the game.

However I still can't get my head around this whole ethos malarkey and the stand agaianst modern football etc. I thought the FSF looked after the 'wrong doings' against supporters.

boro_tyke Posted on 23/09/2010 12:12
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How old are you Marlon?

Generally speaking, the FSF do look after injustices relating to football and its supporters’. And by no means do Red Faction profess to be guardians of the game, or of Boro fans.

The simple explanation is that there are a viable number of Boro fans who haven’t been sickened-off by the ills of the modern game – financial inequalities, money over sporting virtues, rising prices and and the general erosion of fans civil liberties and the general well-being of the game as a sporting merit-based spectacle – who still go to football and still care about the game. Red Faction genrally speaking represent those fans.

That Boro have fans who are willing to make a stand when it’s merited, who don’t subscribe to the general destruction of the game we all enjoy, then that surely can only be good for the majority of us.

RF understand MFC more than the FSF ever can. That is reason enough for their existence. Or put another way, two heads are better than one.

Humpty Posted on 23/09/2010 12:13
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*TIPS BAT AND ACKNOWLEDGES THE PAVILLION*

sitheman Posted on 23/09/2010 12:19
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Boro Tyke you are coming across as a very bitter fella.

Why slag off the 12th man?

You are doing your little red faction club more damage than MFC ever could. In the last week I think you will have turned more people off the RF and put more peoples support behind the club.

To sum up the RF you want to do what you want and want the club to accept.

12th man have done a lot of great things for fans of MFC. The Red Faction seem to be doing whatever they can to ruin that.

Keep going as you are and RF will end up getting banned.

boro_tyke Posted on 23/09/2010 12:25
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“12th man have done a lot of great things for fans of MFC.”

Please elaborate.

trog64 Posted on 23/09/2010 12:36
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This struck me as a roll reversal of Roma where our women supporters had their bags inspected and tubes of lipstick removed. All Boro fans had their change, lighters and loose object staken from them. Meanwhile, Roma fans were allowed in with flares, knives and dangerously modified golf balls !!

boro_tyke Posted on 23/09/2010 12:52
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I couldn’t think of more polar opposites trog64.

sitheman Posted on 23/09/2010 12:56
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Countless banners bought and used in the correct manner.

Singing section.

Away travel for likeminded folk.

More importantly forming a link with MFC who lets face it are terrible at dealing with supporters and the fan that you seem to be hell bent on destroying.

boro_tyke Posted on 23/09/2010 13:05
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Countless banners bought and used in the correct manner.
Same can be said of Red Faction


Singing section.
Complete and utter failure.


Away travel for likeminded folk.
See also Red Faction


More importantly forming a link with MFC who lets face it are terrible at dealing with supporters and the fan that you seem to be hell bent on destroying.
Red Faction also have active and open lines of communication with the club with no agenda to destroy anything or anyone.


£2,000 and 4-years worth of stagnation my friend. The Riverside is a souless today as it ever has been (Red Faction being inclusive to that equation BTW).

You should go into PR sitheman. Is MN4 paying you?




sitheman Posted on 23/09/2010 13:10
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The fact your banners were removed for not having correct certificates would imply that they the club were not informed.

Dont get me wrong the added colour to the group looks great but you have to admit the 12th man banners are a tad more professional than your offerings. But hey im all for a bit of colour.

The singing section might be considered a failure to small minded folk but the fact is 12th man worked with the club to create an area where fans could gather to create an atmosphere at the most appropriate part of the ground. They did not just plonk themselves in the worst area of the stadium possible.

Cannot be arsed the answer your others points.

fatharrywhite Posted on 23/09/2010 13:12
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"Singing section.
Complete and utter failure"

it isnt though is it. Why do you feel the need to say a complete lie?? They now sit about 5 rows behind me, have plenty of new songs and generally are singing for 90% of the game.

By all means argue the point but dont talk absolute XXXXXXe which is what that statement is.


MawTheMerrier Posted on 23/09/2010 13:14
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Mate of mine had a banner in the 70's which said "Boro Axe Men"

[:D]

speckyget Posted on 23/09/2010 13:15
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'The Riverside is a souless today as it ever has been '

The atmosphere is sometimes crap and sometimes brilliant and mostly somewhere in the middle. Bit like Ayresome.

Last two games the atmosphere has been terrific for a small crowd, so credit due to the Red Faction AND the boys in the singing section.

boro_tyke Posted on 23/09/2010 13:25
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“Complete lie?”

Its nether a truth or a lie FHW. Its an opinion. As is yours.

The new songs you refer to, some of which have bee sung in the SE corner for the best part of a year, the rest cringeworthy (don’t worry thats also just an opinion). The North Stand was much better when it was spontaneous rather than a small band forcing the issue. How I now miss ‘Come on Boro’ at corner kicks and free kicks close to the penalty area.

Hence, (IMO) the success of the singing section is negligible and certainly there has been no improvement whatsoever in the Riverside atmosphere since its introduction. If you sit 5 rows in front of it you’re bound to be impressed by the noise it generates – which in truth is more of a half-hearted relocation of Block 17 than anything new and innovative.

So its hardly XXXXXXe to suggest its not working.

speckyget Posted on 23/09/2010 13:28
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Sorry to sprinkle your chips with man vinegar, but from the middle of the East Stand the Red Faction and the North Stand singing section are in perfect stereo balance.

sitheman Posted on 23/09/2010 13:34
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"the rest cringeworthy" they will be singing Rod Stewart next [:D]

heaton_mersey_boro Posted on 23/09/2010 13:37
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Its like "The Life of Brian"

"Excuse me. Are you the Judean People's Front?

Fúck off! We're the People's Front of Judea"

[rle]

toxic_bob Posted on 23/09/2010 13:49
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Godwin's Law (fmttm variants, para 20, subsection 7) states that when two or three are gathered together to dicuss the Red Faction, discussion will inevitatably tend towards the Life of Brian.

sitheman Posted on 23/09/2010 13:50
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I tend to think more This Is England [;)]

MawTheMerrier Posted on 23/09/2010 14:20
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I think I might split and form the "12th Faction"


lockey Posted on 23/09/2010 14:22
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Away travel for likeminded folk.
See also Red Faction

Please elaborate.

grantus Posted on 23/09/2010 14:22
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It's turning into a royal rumble here.

12th man with the 'oh we do it so much better than you and play by the rules'

Red faction with their 'we are the working class, we represent the real fan, and we will rebel'

Both arguments are starting to look a bit stale and sad.

12th man did some lovely card displays years back. Red Faction do create an atmosphere.

The bottom line here is, the supporters have left the club in their thousands, the supporter groups that remain are squabbling, the club lurches from one pr disaster to another.

Has the atmosphere improved? Give over.

The whole thing is laughable.

Happy days indeed.

oooooo Posted on 23/09/2010 14:36
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Add the 12th man to the RF members and you've still got less than 1% of the average attendance 'up in arms'. Trust me, the majority couldn't care less.

sitheman Posted on 23/09/2010 14:42
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I am in the couldnt care less cat now at one point i would be all for these supporters groups.

Think they are both good clubs but the RF are letting themslves down in my view.

12th man can rock on, cannot see what they have done wrong.[^]

RedcarBlock53 Posted on 23/09/2010 14:45
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Agreed oooooo but minus that less than 1% and you'd literaly have zero atmosphere.

ccole Posted on 23/09/2010 14:46
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"Countless banners bought and used in the correct manner."


FOR FOOOKS SAKE, HOW DO YOU USE A BANNER IN THE WRONG MANOR?[:(!]

Would you ask the club for permission to piiissh if they brought a rule in for that?[:o)]

Imagine the request…… "Dear Dave Allen, I have a fire proof bed sheet on which I have painted -GIBSON OUT- because I am not happy with the way my season ticket money has been spent. Can I bring it to the next game please?"[ref]


Will you get the approval? …… Don’t you see this piiissh take in having to go cap in hand to big brother to ask for permission to take a banner to a football match?

It’s a foooking football game. The only rules involved should be those set by the Football Association.

The rest should be common sense, an item lacking by a few on this thread and by the people who made the original decision.

Boro fans used to be known for having balls, now its just for clapping like seals to orchestrated goal time celebrations and dancing to our masters tune.

Just like the no singing letter, the issue here is not about RF or 12t hman, its about the way this football club is run by people who have not been to a game as a fan for a very, very long time, and for a few, if ever.


flyermetothemoon Posted on 23/09/2010 14:54
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CCOLE [^][^]

kernaghanscodpiece Posted on 23/09/2010 15:02
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I agree with grantus.

12th man & RF should take step back from these silly squabbles and read their posts again. It's so childish. Any right minded adult reading this thread will find it hilarious.

My gangs louder than yours! Our flags are cooler than yours! The club is on our side! We don't want the club to be on our side, we hate the club!

FFS[rle]

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 23/09/2010 15:06
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Could the Red Faction and Twe12th Man just unite, along with the rest of us, and support the lads?

Move everyone back into the North, get the banners fire-proofed and sing together. I think it's achievable.

sitheman Posted on 23/09/2010 15:07
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CCole

Its easy, you dont liase with the club and you dont get it fire proofed. Then it gets taken down and you ruin it for all the others.

Do it the right way and it stays up.

Its not hard.

shaunb86 Posted on 23/09/2010 15:21
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CCole most sense spoken in the whole post. Can I just point out to most that this disagreement between the rf and 12th man is between a couple of individuals.onthe whole both groups get along. I find it quite sad from
both sides to be honest and the squabling has taken over the discussion.

boro_tyke Posted on 23/09/2010 15:51
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“Away travel for likeminded folk.
See also Red Faction Please elaborate.”

Here we go...

Lockey: you have 19 usernames on Red Faction’s forum – spouting continuous bilge. Does your Führer know? You know how much he’s paranoid about RF members with multiple usernames spreading ‘Nazi Propaganda’.

From your familiarity with those pages, you’ll know very well I don’t need to elaborate.

Now run along.

levendale Posted on 23/09/2010 15:58
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CCOLE wish we had a lot more fans like you .

woodymfc Posted on 23/09/2010 16:01
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The club have thousands of fans like ccole, most of them don't go anymore and no wonder

MawTheMerrier Posted on 23/09/2010 16:01
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CCole talks sense [^]

otto62 Posted on 23/09/2010 16:09
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I don't understand why Red Faction don't just get the stupid banners fire-proofed and leave them up. Why do they have to throw a tamtrum instead. Everyone knew the rules about fireproofing from when the Twelfth Man started making banners, so for Red Faction to not bother even trying to follow the rules just makes them look like provocative d!cks.

(I'm unsure what an unprovocative d!ck looks like.)

mickymacc Posted on 23/09/2010 16:15
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Have'nt read all the posts but why don't the club offer to fire proof the flags,show a bit of goodwill.These are fans not hooligans,good luck to em.[^]

lockey Posted on 23/09/2010 16:16
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its 22 now actually, i would put money you and your sidekick still having more usernames on your own site than i do.

How is the watford coach coming along?

Where are the likes of Ebow,dannyD etc, this season...
Thats right they cant be arsed with the XXXXXX you cause, they just want to support there team,just like every other lad in the RF apart from yourself.
Every time something goes wrong in the RF you always seem to be on here criticizing the Twe12thman. Its getting beyond a joke.



flyermetothemoon Posted on 23/09/2010 16:17
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The point of this thread is why the f00k do we have to fire proof flags.

I bet that there is not more than one or two sporting venues in the WORLD that have this policy.

The clubs a joke[:(!]

woodymfc Posted on 23/09/2010 16:20
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is the stadium fireproof [?]

shaunb86 Posted on 23/09/2010 16:23
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Otto you have just made me bang my head off my desk repeatedly! We didn't know about any fire regs because they have just made them up at the last game. We knew that banners which constantly stay in the groud needed such certificates.however for a good while now we have been putting them up and taking them down game by game. We have had banners in the ground for over 2 years now and never had 1 problem with them. As for you saying we should just pay for fire safety on our 'stupid' banners - we have about 15-20 banners.some of which are extremely large.therefore it would cost a small fortune to do something which the club may then turn around and still say we can't use.

Humpty Posted on 23/09/2010 16:51
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We can do 1 of 2 things:

1. 12thman v RF scrap behind the east stand (neutral turf and away from the rozzers)

2. Support the Boro


FFS [:(!]

Smogariffic_MFC Posted on 23/09/2010 16:52
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but the club didnt JUST make them up at the last game did they? they had them in action seasons ago when 12th man were bring there banners in. the club seen you had put new banners up last game that you had not informed the club about the they were taken down.

Humpty Posted on 23/09/2010 16:52
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I can i just state, as author of this thread, i am exempt from any blame for the downfall of the red faction or the twe12thman.

TMG501 Posted on 23/09/2010 16:57
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@ Smogariffic_MFC. Aren't you the one who has just become a steward? To quote you " Other area's in the ground stand up, sing and then sit back down, they don't constantly stand and bounce about for the match". I take it that you or your colleagues will be going into the away section at, let's say for example, the Boro - Leeds fixture to make sure the Leeds fans don't "constantly stand and bounce about for the match"?

Smogariffic_MFC Posted on 23/09/2010 17:00
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no because i dont work in the south stand or the south east corner, so i wont be telling anyone in those area's of the ground to sit down im afraid :)

TMG501 Posted on 23/09/2010 17:03
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So what are the clubs orders to your colleagues regarding away fans[?]

viv_andersons_nana Posted on 23/09/2010 17:04
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This would be something else to raise at the meeting I imagine. All spectators must be treated the same, including the ones in the away end.

The meeting could go on all afternoon at this rate.

Humpty Posted on 23/09/2010 17:08
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WHY CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG [cr]

Smogariffic_MFC Posted on 23/09/2010 17:10
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TMG501 .. each head steward for each stand for example, North Stand head steward ... North East stand head steward, East Stand head steward, South East stand head steward and so on all have a briefing to read out to the stewards before the game, each one will be different, more so the area where the away fans are. So i really cant tell you what they will be told as i dont know .....

TMG501 Posted on 23/09/2010 17:20
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I'd like to point out that I am not in any supporters group.[:D]

kernaghanscodpiece Posted on 23/09/2010 19:15
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Just thought I'd hoof this thread for anyone who wants a good laugh at how self important and up thier own ar*es our 'supporters groups' are [:D]

PaulLeGuen Posted on 23/09/2010 19:18
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Whats all this about boro tke being an MFC representative? And wearing MFC merchandise? Never.

Any proof?

BTW, on this thread the first mention of 12th man is from you (as you always seam to do) so i don't think the 12th man are responsible for the arguement, just replying to it. And from where i sit with my lad in the East the '6 in the new firm' are heard nice and clear.

HolgateCorner Posted on 23/09/2010 19:41
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I didn't bother looking at this thread until I noticed tonight it had hit the 250 mark, so I've had a scroll down.

Fair play to both the Red Faction and the 12th Man both showing great passion for the club and trying to improve the performance of the supporters.

Those coming on and having ago at them would be better turning their attention to the pathetic stay aways (and I don't mean those who are working at the time or can't afford it), I'm talking about the 15 odd thousand who don't want to know when we have a couple of bad seasons.

We need more Red Factions and 12th Men.

STEEL_CITY_SMOGGY Posted on 23/09/2010 19:43
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Spot on HC [^]

borobadge Posted on 23/09/2010 19:53
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the football club couldnt have got it any more wrong......

shocking.

juninhosdivingheader Posted on 23/09/2010 21:24
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i like Red Faction

and I like 12th Man too

But one which the best

There's only one way to find out!

JohnGannonsUnderpants Posted on 23/09/2010 22:06
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All this bullXXXXXX between the 12th man an RF is fu*kin pathetic, you want to get a grip of yourselves. It is a FACT that the club is victimising RF and it's pathetic. As supporters of this club we should all stand together and back each other up. Why don't the two groups call for an unofficial flag day where everyone all over the ground takes in a flag and lets see who they take them off. A show of unity as fans of the boro wouldn't go amiss instead of all this b*tchy sh*t.

PaulLeGuen Posted on 23/09/2010 22:25
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If RF slag off 12th man then there bound to respond.

Support the team, ban the politics

[V]

boro-is-in-my-blood Posted on 23/09/2010 22:47
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He said she said,am telling me mam! [|)]

Revol_Tees Posted on 24/09/2010 03:20
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So Sgt. Pepper took you by surprise
You better see right through that mother's eyes
Those freaks was right when they said you was dead
The one mistake you made was in your head
Ah, how do you sleep?
Ah, how do you sleep at night?

You live with straights who tell you you was king
Jump when your momma tell you anything
The only thing you done was yesterday
And since you're gone you're just another day
Ah, how do you sleep?
Ah, how do you sleep at night?

Ah, how do you sleep?
Ah, how do you sleep at night?

A pretty face may last a year or two
But pretty soon they'll see what you can do
The sound you make is muzak to my ears
You must have learned something in all those years
Ah, how do you sleep?
Ah, how do you sleep at night?

Bukowski Posted on 24/09/2010 03:32
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At a time when the club are haemorrhaging support, they're getting pettier and pettier and treating fans with less and less respect.

Regardless of anything else, it just doesn't make business sense does it?

Dibzzz Posted on 24/09/2010 10:57
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What about the likes of Liverpool on a packed European night? Thousands of banners, non of that carry on there.

sitheman Posted on 24/09/2010 13:40
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Cannot belive nobody has posted since 10.47

Liamo Posted on 24/09/2010 14:23
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Just to add to fatharrywhite's earlier post and not commenting on the rights or wrongs of it, but it took me less than 30 seconds' worth of Googling to turn up the fact that (among others) both Old Trafford and Wembley Stadium require fire safety certificates for banners and/or surfer flags.

levendale Posted on 24/09/2010 14:48
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Agree with bukowski , am really struggling to see what the club hope to gain from this nonsense .

sitheman Posted on 24/09/2010 15:04
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Well at a wide stab in the dark the club might be hoping to gain a stadium that complies to the heath and safety regulations that must play a part in deciding if the stadium is safe to remain open or not.

6876 Posted on 24/09/2010 15:31
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As an EnglandFan member who often travels to England home games with a friend who has takes an England flag, I can assure you that Wembley do not ask for any certificate before taking it into the ground.

Surfers may be different, but I don’t ever recall it been an issue at any other ground I have been to.

80 English (Inc OT)

13 in Europe

8 world/Europe Fifa tournaments

shaunb86 Posted on 24/09/2010 15:57
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HOW MANY BLOODY TIMES!

the only time any stadium asks for a safety certificate is if the banners are staying in the stadium on a permanent basis (like the 12man flags). RF used to keept the banners up in the stadium during the week but then after being told about this rule we starting putting them up and down every game (for the best part of a year now). However, when we got there on Saturday for the Reading game they decided to change the rule that any banners coming into the stadium must have fire safety certificates. even though fans put them up in other parts of the ground that day and in the away end.

Manny-Being-Manny Posted on 24/09/2010 16:26
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Where's the stewards when you need them?


Link: Stewards?!

boro-is-in-my-blood Posted on 24/09/2010 21:45
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fuk me manny there must be 10 000 fire certs handed in that day!!!


sitheman Posted on 25/09/2010 23:28
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hoof[:P]